Elizabeth Banks: How Do I Know If He’s My Soulmate? (FBF)

What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper. With call her daddy daddy daddy. Elizabeth Banks, welcome to Call her daddy. Thank you. Hi. You are an actress, writer, producer, director. You've started movies such as The Hunger Games, 40-year-old Virgin, one of my personal favorites, pitch perfect, another one of my personal favorites, and many more. And you're in the wine business. Yeah. Your team reached out and was like, are you down to drink? And I was like, am I down to drink? Give me an excuse to drink during the day on a Wednesday. I'm game. I'm ready. So we have your wine here. Yes. It's called Archerus. What are you starting with? I started with that one. I started with that one. Okay. And then I think we have, this is the mall back. Yeah. Yeah. So I like the mall back chilled. It's amazing. Would you consider yourself a smallie? No. In fact, one of the reasons I liked that this Archerus was a smallie. And the reason I liked this Archerus was canned wine was that I kind of feel a little wine-shamed. You know what I mean? I'm a grown-ass woman, but like, I don't know. I don't why I can't learn everything about wine. It's just not my thing. Right. But I also know what I like. Okay. This is it. I mean, I love a sommelier who's like very cool and chill and telling me what's good. Yeah. And like, I love that vibe. But I really, when I go to shop for wine, I'm like, I don't know. See, this is what I didn't know. First of all, cheers. Cheers. Let's have a taste. Lahoyam. Oh, it's good. Oh, it's yummy. I forgot. There's something about drinking wine in a can that's like bringing me back to life. You're on the beach. I'm on the beach. In your mind, I'm already on the beach. I'm like, in Italy. Yes. Yes. I'm in Marbella, Spain. Oh, my feet are in the sand. Growing up before you were like, of age at 21. What was your parents' relationship to allowing or not allowing you to drink? My high school graduation, my dad bought a couple of cases of beer. He was like, you're 18. You can't, this is weird. But he was in the Navy at 18. You know what I mean? Okay, so they were pretty chill. They were pretty chill. Yeah. I was a bit of a goody-two-shoes in high school. So I was somewhat weirdly responsible. Well, I feel like, because we're going to get to that, because I know you went to an Ivy League school. So I was wondering, like, did you spend all of your high school time preparing to try to get to college? Or did it come naturally for you? I loved school. I love learning. And so school was not overly stressful for me. To me, it was about getting out of my small town. And I was super grateful for where I grew up. I love Pitzfield Mass Shoutout, Western Massachusetts. But I had cityblood from birth. And I just knew I was meant to go live in a city somewhere, somehow. I was not meant to, like, party with kegs in the woods while I was raining on me, you know, off of Georgia's farm road or whatever. So to me, the whole situation in high school was about getting, like, what's the best school I can get into? How can I get out of here? How can I make real money in my life? How can I, you know, that was, I grew up working class. And my parents wanted more for me. And I wanted more for me. Totally. I was ambitious. I can relate to that because I'm from Pennsylvania. Yeah. What was the most challenging aspect of adjusting to going to a school like you pen? It was passing, frankly, as somebody who, like, belonged there. They have programs now for this in college, which they didn't have when I was there, which is basically, like, socio-economically, to be on scholarship and grants and all that, which is how I went to pen. I worked the entire time. I never went on spring break. I never went anywhere. I stayed at school and worked. I did not go. I worked all summers. So that was the part of it that, for me, you know, I was there living and hanging out with and going to class with people who just never have to worry about that stuff. You know, they were not worried about a winter coat with a hole in it. And I was like, fuck, my winter coat has a hole in it. This is my coat. And let me sow this myself. Like, you know, like, oh, I had to miss shifts because I had to, you know, study. I literally was choosing between, like, a shift at work or studying for a test. And it's like, all right, well, I got to maintain this great point average so I can stay at this school. And so, okay, now I've missed a shift. So now we're not going to, we're going to have bagels this week at every meal, you know. But when you look back, like, do you feel like that also propelled you to a different level for yourself? I don't, you look, it's just, it was my experience. Yeah. I really only tried to speak for myself at this point. You know, I, that was my experience. I had to work a lot. I'd missed out on a lot of things. But of course it makes you a person who is respectful of the dignity of work. Like, like, true, you know, I see, I was a chambermaid in a bed and breakfast. And like, don't flush condoms down toilets. Assholes. Stop it. That's cool. It's such a good specific, like, PSA. We don't need the condoms in the toilet. That's not where they go. Oh, they don't go down there. That's not what you do. Right. And it's people like me that have to clean that up. So, you know, I, I just have like that mentality now of really appreciating work, you know, the, the, the dignity of work. And people just doing their job so they can like go home to their families, you know. When did you realize you wanted to be an actress? It was pretty late. I, it's just not something anybody where I'm from dreams about. And I loved doing it. It, I, it provided me a real sense of pride and self-worth. And I felt good at it. I really liked entertaining people and I made people laugh early in my career and it just was very, um, addicting. Um, that all being said, I did not go to school to be an actor at all. The path was like, I couldn't move at 22 to New York and become an actor because I had no idea how to do that. Of course. And so instead, I just kept going to school because I knew how to do that. You're like, this I know. This I can figure out. And honestly, it worked out really well for me. I did my showcase and I got an agent and I got it offers and I was like in a commercial like a month later. And then that was that. And I started paying off my student loans and here I am. I love the story just because I feel like something I've been talking about recently is like a lot of people will write in being like, I feel like I'm on campus and everyone knows like what they want to major in and what do they want to do for living. And I'm like, I have no fucking idea. Like I am like just as lost as the person to that. So I think it's nice to sometimes hear people be like, yeah, I didn't like grow up and from like five was like, I'm going to be an actress. And I'm totally fine if that's what you are like envisioning for yourself. But it is nice to hear sometimes people who are so successful like you are to be like, yeah, no, I didn't have it. I'll figure it out until like after college almost I started to like lean into like, what do I want to do? Yeah, which I appreciate you. I mean, you're a podcaster. Yeah, one of the best. How did you come to this? I had literally no idea. I wanted to podcast. I wanted to do like, when you're like, this is going to be my job. You know what I mean? Are you kidding me? I didn't even know podcasting was a thing. Right. I would consider it like radio and I never wanted to be like a radio personality. If anything I wanted to produce and like direct TV or film. Yeah. And then it just like came about. I think sometimes it comes off like we've all got our shit together. It's not the case. It's really not. And I think it's helpful. I loved doing it. I've always loved doing it. But I did not consider it a realistic dream to have. You know, it just was, my mindset at the time was not big enough. And now looking back. And I tell people this all the time, like dream bigger, dream bigger, dream bigger, every dream, like go like, yeah, you might not happen tomorrow. But like put, put a, put something on the map if your life like farther out. And like if you work towards it, you probably do it. I completely agree. Or you're going to get some version of it that you're going to realize you wanted. That's exactly right. You're at least going to, you don't have to know exactly what you want to do. I tell, it's interesting. I have a young, my young sons. And when you, if you ask them right now, what do you want to be a new girl? They're like, I'm 11. Like, I, you know, I don't, they don't have a dream job. Right. They have a dream life. And I, we talk about this a lot. Like what does that look like, you know, and my son will say, because he's very wise. I hope I'm doing a job that I enjoy. And I go, yeah, that would be nice. And I hope I have enough time to spend with my family. Yeah, that would be good. And, um, and I hope I stay connected to the friends I'm making right now. And I'm like, yeah, I think that, I think that's a really good recipe for a happy life. I think here is why is it most of us? I know. That actually is so awesome. That's it. No, that's so cute because I feel like when you're that young, sometimes we need to like listen to the youth because they're like so unscathed by the world. Yeah, that's right. This is what we should, and we're like, shit, that is what we should be doing. But I also, I'm trying to teach him not to dream about work. And I think about that for me, looking high school when you asked about that. It was the vision of my life was like, I'm living in a city. Do you know what I mean? In like, I make enough money that I don't worry about paying the bills. That was the dream. Yes. That was what I was talking thinking about. Right. You know, that's what I was putting on the map. I think that's such a good bit of advice. You don't have to have the exact thing in mind, but have at least one thing that you know you want for yourself. And be employable. Okay. You can't make money if you don't create employability for yourself. And the more specific you can be, the more money you can make in life. Okay. I mean, I truly think there's actually a simple formula to this. Yeah. So the more specialized you get, right? That's how you end up like actually like earning. But in the beginning, just think about what makes me attractive to employers. What brings the money to people? And it's like broad mindset. Like I can do anything, be confident, you know, think work, work hard. Any job you're doing. Like when I was cleaning those toilets in the bed and breakfast, you better believe they were spotless. You know, take pride in what you're doing no matter what it is. Learn that skill set early. Don't be like, oh, I got to do this thing. Guess what? You're there. You took the job. You're cash in the check. Show up. It's such good advice. And I think it's like standing out is something I think. Like I always was like, mom, stop making me like put this on my resume or write this. And she's like, I promise you like. And now that I would be hiring people, I now see it. I'm like, people just write in these generic things. Yeah. And I'm like, do something wild to stand out. That's my piece of advice. Like just send something that maybe you think is like, even if it's a little ballsy, you're going to catch people's attention. Let's talk about a little bit of romance. Okay. You met your husband. Yes. The first night of college. Yes. What do you remember about that night? Can you explain to us what happened? The main thing I remember is that he was not that interested in me. Oh, he would say otherwise. But he was, he was pursuing me a little bit. I was pursuing him for sure. And he was also pursuing this really cute girl named Kate. I can say girl because we were 18 at the time. Who was like a nursing student had a twin sister and they were super cute. And she had like a sexy deep voice. I remember Kate. Hi, Kate. If you're out there listening. Anyway, he, I met, so I went to school. I knew one person from school. I hope she's listening to Anna brother. Her name was Penny Feldstein. I met her in Massachusetts before I went to Penn, which is in Philadelphia. So I show up in Philadelphia on campus. And she had said, my brother goes to the school. So when you get there, call me because he'll like take us around, whatever. So I get there. I call Penny. And she's like, my brother's fraternity is having a party tonight. So I went to her room and we walked up to the frat house together. I met her brother, Mark Feldstein. And the second person I met was my, he happened to be standing with my now husband. Yeah. And the vibes were like chill, but he wasn't like obsessed. The vibes were chill. Neither one of us. We were, Koi, you know, it was like September 6th. I know exactly what it was, but um, September 6th is like 100 degrees still in Philly. So everyone was like, I was in like cut off gene shorts. I mean, we were all half naked. And he was really cut. He had a really great body and he was tan because it was the end of summer. Right. Ever looking her best. And writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing But I do think, you know, it's almost like when you, if you're, you see something, you're made aware of something and suddenly, like, you see it everywhere. I was made aware of him and then I kind of felt like I saw him everywhere for the next few days. So I met him, we hung out for, you know, not that long that night. I tried to give him my number. He was like, I don't have a phone, which was true. He just hadn't hooked up his phone yet. But I was like, if you don't have my number, dude, like you can just say so. Don't pretend you have like no ability to ever figure out how to call me. Like, like, there's, there are phones in the world. You might not have, you can find a phone if you care. So that was a fun laugh in he didn't call me because he didn't take, he didn't have a phone. He was like, oh, so he can't, and then the next night, I saw him again with like a totally different group of people and then he started rushing a guy who lived on my floor because he was older than me. And so I happened to literally like, walked in my hallway and he was standing there. And so, you know, it was just like little things where I was like, wait, why do we keep seeing each other? And we were had a great energy between us from jump. We were very attracted to each other. And then he asked me out on a date and we went on like the greatest date of my life. You know, we were underage and we went to a jazz club in Philadelphia. Like, I'm from like a little town. We have like three bars, like, you know, maybe. And they're all like roadhouses, basically. So going to a fancy jazz club, this woman's saying, I remember she's saying all the classics and saying, you know, what a wonderful world and like walked through the room with the microphone and saying at our table, and we drank beautiful old fashions out of beautiful crystal glasses. And then he said to the taxi driver, he's like, I just need to back. And I was like, oh my god, he knows how to like tip. He's so fancy. I was blown away. You're like, okay, I guess we can date now. I guess. You know how to work it. It's gonna be great. And then the rest is history. And we're still here, yeah. So long later. Oh, Having a relationship in college, what was like the best part of that and the worst part of that? Because there can be pros and cons to having it immediately starting freshman year and through. I mean, the big pro is you don't need to muck around. Right? Figure out who to fuck, who to what your day, who cares about you, what you, oh my god, I can't even imagine now the texting and the ghosting and the, oh my god, it's not great. It's not great. Ugh, it's not good. The worst. I had a great relationship in high school too, so that really prepared me at a great boyfriend. And you know, I went to college being like, I'm here. I wanted to get laid and like sew my oats and have fun. That was really it. And I happened to meet, I turned out I'm a serum monogamous. I didn't know. I didn't realize. I went to high school to college. I just honed in on one and that was it. I would say together for 30 years. But then, where was he from? Portland, Oregon. Okay. So you guys graduate. Yes. I think there's so many people that write into me and are like, I'm graduating college. Yes. Right. What the hell do we do? We have to move to different states. Sure. Or should we stay together? Like, what happened with the dynamic and how did you guys make it work? I mean, he made it work, honestly. He made really, he made decisions that were about us staying together. I mean, we both did eventually do that. But I, you know, he was not, he left school not really knowing what he wanted to do with his life. Um, again, very common, you know, took some great jobs and had a lot of great opportunities. But I was not living his passion. Yeah. So like, we both did things that were for us, you know, we didn't try to like merge our lives when we were 23. Like that's crazy. You don't need to do that. But you do need to be honest, I think, about like, are we doing this together or not? And of course, back then too, I was crazy and emotional and like, what is this? And is this forever and not and whatever? I questioned all that too. I didn't really know. I really liked being with him. Yeah. And we were not, we never broke up. It's not like I was like, I can't wait to date other people. I was not really interested in that. It was more about, I want to do things for myself and am I bringing him along? Is he going to come or what's happening? And he, the answer to that was like, he came. He said, yes, I'm going to come. See, that's what I wanted to hear because I'm like, okay, there had to be a moment where one of you is like, what are we doing? Because if you never broke up, I was going to say like, was there ever a moment that you had a freak out of like, is this the one? Am I going to look back and look back? Yeah. Like, okay. We didn't have major freak outs, but I think it was more about, is our life going to keep going together or is it going to, is it going to, you know, are we on the same path or are we going to diverge? And that, that's a question that everyone has to figure out. You know, you can't force those things to happen. I wanted to be, I wanted to follow my dreams and be my own person and make sure I always had my own sense of security. I didn't need him to do things. And I know he felt the same way. He wanted to feel like he was his own man, his own person, all of those things. Like we, even though we had this, we have this identity now more than ever that we are totally together, we needed to feel as young people that we had our individuality and that we were our own people before we could like, join, join up with each other, right? I love that. And that, that was what we were, that's the balance we were trying to do. So we spend a lot of time apart from each other, we still do. Yeah. I'm a heart, I'm a, makes the heart grow fonder person. Like, I don't mind being, I mean, I mind being away. It's not the greatest, but it always makes me appreciate what I have at home. And that has been true our entire lives. Like I've always had a trouble for work and he's always had to come visit or done it. We've always come back together and the coming back together is always been awesome. I think that's something that's very underrated is like using moments apart that actually make you way closer and stronger because you miss them and you want to be with them. We end up being like on the phone for like three hours and like, like, we're in high school again. Yeah. You know, it's cute. It's cute. That's what I was going to ask you. I'm like, okay, 30 years of marriage. Yeah. How do you keep the passion alive? How do you keep it interesting? Give us the secret. You know, it's funny because most people ask, how do you stay together for that long? Like people are not actually the, like, those questions. Yeah. No, I mean so funny because most people are like, how do you, how do you, like, commit to someone and then not fuck it up? They're like, Elizabeth, how are you so at the same person? They're like, I'm switching. And you're like, and me while I'm like, I, if you, if you choose well, and you stay, and you keep recommitting to it, it's actually not that hard. I'm always like, don't cheat. Yeah. That's the big, like, what do most people break up over? Cheating. That's what most people break up over. Let's be clear. That's it. Is there a conversation you guys had that was like a very specific conversation about that, like when you got married or something? I mean, I remember we went to, we were in San Francisco, we went to a restaurant. We were probably like 26. They, you know, we had some drinks and we got a little drunk and it was more of just like, look, if anything's happened, if you've flirted, if this has gone on, what I literally don't care. Let's not care about anything that happened in the past. Let's just talk about what the future looks like for us. Like are we, are we doing this? Are we saying like, it's me and you and we're going forward? And we said, yes, and I remember it's kind of coming to the conclusion, I was like, oh, okay, so eventually I'm going to marry him. And we're going to have kids, we're going to make a family together. And that kind of came out of a conversation that was like, whatever's ever happened. Let's not care because we were babies. And you weren't, it's fine. We weren't meant, you know, we didn't know that we were going to be committed. But now, tonight, we're kind of in a place where we know we're going to. So let's like, you know, and have some sort of conversation. Kind of acknowledge it and kind of say like, alright, well then let's, let's be real about this. Like, let's be, let's commit. I appreciate that because I think there's a lot of people that can get scared to bring it up if they don't know where their partners at. Yeah. And it's a very scary feeling when I've had women write in being like, I know, like, I'm ready for the next step. And he has never brought it up. And I'm like, you have to have the conversation. Because what are you going to do? Sit around for a couple more years. And then you finally ask him and he's like, oh, no, I'm out. Like, also, I think it's okay. Look, people are afraid of the answer. It's fear-based. So because you're putting yourself out there and you don't want to hear that they don't want to do it. But I think often what happens is, by the way, we didn't get married at 26. There was multiple years went by after that before we actually married each other. It was more just like, let's start making decisions that will lead us to the same place, which is we want to get married and start a family. And that was it. By the way, I have friends, family that don't want to get married, but are like, I want to move to LA. Do you want to come with me? Are we going to commit to this life together? It's the same idea. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, we were living together. So it's like, totally. That's what I was interested like, you didn't get married right away. How much open communication did you guys have about like, we want to get married when are we getting engaged? Because I think sometimes like, when I hear you, you talk it all. Well, meaning once we were like, once I knew we were going to get married eventually, I kind of had that in the back of my, but I was like, there was no rush. I wasn't in hurry. Right, right. But my only hurry was literally, I'm a little traditional. I didn't want to accidentally get pregnant before I was married. I get that. I was it. Okay, okay. That was it. I was like, ooh, I'm going to feel really bad if I. You wanted to do it that okay. I wanted to be traditional about it. I just thought we'd been together since we were 18. And I, by the way, this is no judgment. Anyone who has a kid and then gets married. I don't really care what anyone does. I'm just telling you that for me, I'm a little traditional. I wanted to be married before I had kids. Were you surprised when he proposed? Yes, he surprised me because he was like, fuck you, you're a no at all. I didn't want you to know. And he knows me really well. And he wanted to create a scenario where he, he did it. It was him. It was not, he's a little traditional too. That's why we worked together. You know what I mean? I think he called my dad and the whole thing. And so it was like he went with like my good friend to like buy a ring and got her advice. And like, you know, he did all the work. And I think and he deserves all the credit for it because I was kind of like, did to do like, I was working. I knew, you know, we'll figure it out eventually. Blah blah blah. And then he was like, no, we're doing it now. And I was like, oh shit. All right, we're doing it. Okay. Can you share how he did it? Oh, it's not that crazy. I was working on this movie, Seabiscuit. Okay. Of course. I traveled all around for it and I was in Kentucky. We were shooting a sequence at Keenland. And he came to visit in Kentucky. He was in business school at UCLA at the time, getting his MBA. And so I honestly thought he wasn't going to do anything until he had graduated. You know what I mean? I didn't think he was really ready to get married. And he showed up. We went tailgating. So there's a big Kentucky Louisiana football game. We love sports. So and I was with these world class jockeys in Kentucky where jockeys are literally the celebrities of Kentucky, right? So we were these big time jockeys, Hall of Famers, and they were like, we're going to go, you know, they have a suite at the thing, one of all these rich horse people. So we went, we started drinking bourbon because it's Kentucky at 11 a.m. We were off our asses by the end of the game. The game was blow out amazing. They shot off fireworks like the game was over in Kentucky one and then Louisiana ran a touchdown into the end zone and actually won the game. So it was like this crazy ending and it was like, it's one of these like top 10 all time, like ESPN moments blah, blah, blah. So we go back to the hotel after this. We're done. Like I'm done. And we're taking an app and I wake up and I'm like, let's just get a stick to the room and like, you know, hang out. Like we're already kind of, he's like, no, we are going to dinner. Yeah. Get this big plan. And he had asked like, what's the best steakhouse in Kentucky or whatever? It's called Malone's. I don't know if it's still there. It was in a shout out to Malone's. That's where I got engaged. So we go to Malone's. We have a driver. He like has it all arranged through the concierge. We go to Malone's and it is a party because Louisiana has won and all these people are there for the game. And they're all wearing their Marty Grabides and it's purple everywhere. And there's a magician walking around doing stuff and my husband is kind of horrified. He's like, oh shit. He was wanting like Mousseau and Frank's like he wanted a classic like, you know, like a red velvet bank cat, right? I have a situation where we were going to eat a medium rare steak and have martinis. And he was going to ask me to marry him and it was going to be great. Instead we're in a party. I mean, it is a massive party there. And we're hungover because we've already been drinking all day. He was like, why? Why? So I think I ordered a ginger ale because I was like, I'm going to die. And you know, so we were there for like two and a half hours. He just wouldn't let the dinner end. He kept ordering things. He wasn't asked me. And honestly, he just wanted, he didn't want to do it in front of like a table full of strangers. And he did not want to do it in front of a fucking magician. No, not. I think we could do it without. I feel like that's not as romantic as it. It doesn't even sound romantic. No, I wasn't. It wasn't. So truly, the restaurant was like closing. Like the staff was kind of like giving us the dirty like you need to get out of here. And we, I was like, why don't we get the check babe? Like, let's go. What are we doing? Why are we still here? And then he just pulled out this ring. And like, yeah, every and we were basically alone at that point in the restaurant. It was really lovely. And I was in shock. In shock. And then we went home and we called our entire family. It was like one o'clock in the morning. I woke my parents up and and then we, his family is all west coast. So they were, it was early enough for them. And then we called everyone and it was great. Okay, that's a great story. Yeah, that's an absolute great story. Because I think sometimes I'm just pressured to do like on the hot air balloon. Like sky diving. Like no, like it can be. That's not us. That's just not us. Like that's you great. Totally. Like go for it. That was not us. He did it exactly how he and I were supposed to totally, totally. So you have two beautiful children? Yes, two boys. Did you always know you wanted children? Yes. I mean, when I was, I mean, I did not want children when I was young. Of course. I wanted to plan my family. That's what I was most interested in. I had a whole plan. Yeah, I had a plan. I did always want to have kids, yes. Especially when I, once I knew I was marrying my husband, I wanted us to make a family together. Then it made sense for you. Yeah, 100%. You've been open about your journey to becoming a mom. Can you talk about that? Well, I, I've never been pregnant. And when I was young, I thought it was because I was really good at taking the pill. Which I definitely was. But I have no idea. So I have, there's a small percentage of women who basically have unexplained infertility. And that is me. I'm in that category. And really what it came down to for me. And I know there are other women who have other stories. And there are rumors out there about my stories. So I just want to say this. I've never been pregnant. I've never had a miscarriage. I think people mistook my story for like, maybe I had a lot of, I've never had a miscarriage. So for me, I had, always had plenty of eggs. I never had trouble making embryos. They did not implant. For whatever reason, my uterus is hostile. I don't know what's going on, but they just will not stay in there. So at a broken belly, is what I told my kids. Mommy had a broken belly. So we, my husband and I, it's funny because I remember when I went to the fertility doctor for the first time. He was like, you're going to use this or I get it. And this is a long time ago before circuses was like a Kardashian thing. Right? Nobody was doing it back then. And I thought he was crazy. Like, what are you talking about? No, I'm not. I'm like, first of all, I don't know what that is. And that sounds nuts and expensive. And we're not doing that. But he was right because he'd seen my case. Like he's basically like, I can solve like eggs. Like we have a lot of ways to like get women, like create embryos. We can solve bad sperm or whatever causes infertility. They have a lot of solutions. They do not know to this day why an embryo and plants are doesn't. They don't know. And so he was like, this is on, you have an unsolvable problem, which is not the language he used with me. So at the time, I thought like, we're just going to do IVF or ART, which is a sister reproductive technologies. And we're going to figure it out. Because like other women I knew were doing that. And they were getting pregnant. It was not a problem. They take you, they're clomid and they do their best or that. Everybody's going to work for us. And then dude, it didn't work for us. We did, I think I did like seven procedures that were all resulted in zippity doodah. And we were really despondent. And then there was a totally crazy scenario that I'm actually not going to talk about here. It involved like family members and a cancer scare and like many things going on. Where we kind of thought like, this is the challenge for us. Like we are really lucky people because we found each other and we're in love. And we're just going to be really good auntie and uncle. And we're just, we weren't meant to do it, you know? And then I had some incredible conversations with people and I had a doctor that was, you know, like, you can use a surrogate. It's really okay. And long story short, because it's a very long story. Met somebody, had an incredible conversation with her. Still to the state, it's my actual son's 10th birthday today and I'm going to send her a picture of him. Yeah, because she helped, you know, she helped make our family with us. Her mom had been a surrogate. That's how she got into it. She had three beautiful kids of her own with her awesome husband because it takes like the whole village to do this. And I was given advice that, you know, nobody comes to surrogacy like willing excitedly. At least I didn't, you know, it was like a last resort for me. But the advice I got was you will be so grateful. And the other advice I got was because back then it's like, and by the way, it's illegal in most states and, you know, it's very, it's the whole abortion conversation is very right now mixed up with IVF and, you know, all of this stuff is so fraught. So there was a lot of judgment around this back then especially. And people were like, guess what? At the end, you know, I had a great friend who was like at the end of the day, there's going to be a baby and you're going to be a parent and like, nobody's going to care how it happened. And like, yeah, it's really good. The other great advice I got was like, is your goal to be pregnant or to be a mom? And I was like, oh shit, it's just to be a mom, right? I don't need to be pregnant. Fuck. I don't know. I just want the baby, right? It's almost like, what's the best way to get to the baby? Like, what are you doing? Like, who cares about the pregnancy? Get the baby. And the situation is like, there's a lot of shame, I think, for women. It's so much right? If you're not able to do it the exact way that like everyone envisions it going and obviously we're so fortunate that we've progressed in the medical field that we're able to actually have so many different ways to go about bringing life into this world. But can you talk a little bit about that shame? Because I think sometimes women go through it and it's hard to articulate especially when you feel so alone and going through it. But I also looked at, it's, your fertility is such a part of your life. Men and women, right? I mean, but for women especially in a society that's like, this is your why we value you, right? We don't value you because you could be a CEO. We value you because you can procreate and keep the race going, right? So if you can't do that, like you are less of a woman, that's the messaging. And my fertility was something that had to mourn. I had to grieve for it. It was a loss. And I had to really work through that before I could invite someone else to help me make my family. That's really what for me, the journey to surrogacy was really about that. And it was confusing too because it's like, we could, my husband, I could make these beautiful baby cakes and I just didn't have an oven to bake them in. And so it really was my fault, do you know what I mean? It was on me. And I felt that deeply, like I'm the problem. And you know, you blame your lifestyle and you blame your, oh my God. And I did everything I was like, I stopped drinking, I stopped eating. Then I started eating because someone was like, you're too thin, you're too this. You use that cream and it's got a chemical in it. It's like, okay, everything has a chemical in it. I don't know. You know, it's like, don't eat this, don't do that. So it's like, everything you're doing is wrong. And like, truly, I went through all of those things. I really did. And at the end of the day, I remember a really good friend of mine, her name is Anna. I hope she hears this. She was like, listen, I was pregnant and I loved being pregnant and I felt cool and it was great. And I gave birth and then they handed me a baby. And they were like, go home and parent this baby. And being pregnant was like a distant memory as if it never happened because suddenly, now actually motherhood is happening because now you're responsible for this other person. When you're pregnant, you're still just responsible for you. And you know, there's still a lot of that. I'm not denying the connection and all of those things. I don't know it intimately because it didn't happen to me, but of course, I'm not denying anyone else's experience. I'm just saying my friend was like, they gave me a baby and then I took her from the hospital and like truly being pregnant was like, what? That was like nothing compared to like the rest of my life is taking care of this for your other human being. Right, that's nine months. Like now it's for the rest of your life. Now it's for the rest of your life. That's what I had to focus on. Just refocusing on parenting and my actual child that was in my arms and man-o-man, it made everything else so stupid. So silly. Everyone's judgment was like, fuck off because now they get to judge me for how I parent. Right. It starts all over again. It's a whole other side of the cycle. But like no. Like you got to mourn it. Absolutely. Look, it was really, it's a journey. It's not, it's hard. It's not easy at all to feel like you can't do something that you really want to do that you feel made and built to do and you don't understand it. And you're with a great person and like everything was right and it still didn't work for me. I really appreciate you sharing that because one recently for me, women having autonomy over their bodies is the cause I care most about. And I think hearing women talk about their individual journeys is so powerful because as much as we all are never going to have the same exact story, it's helpful to hear like we're all going to go through shit, but we can support each other in how different our stories are. That's right. Um, your new movie. Yeah. Call Jane is truly the movie. I think everyone in America should see right now, especially with what's going on. Yeah, I think. Um, can you explain what your character goes through in this movie and her character development? So the movie is called Jane. It's the, it's based on the true collective of women in Chicago in the late 60s, early 70s, before Roe v Wade was the law of the land, um, that provided abortion healthcare to around 11,000 women, uh, that sought them out, right? Um, so basically illegal abortion care was what they were providing. And in the film, I play this woman Joy, who is a kind of conservative housewife who never in a million years thinks she's going to seek out abortion healthcare and, uh, finds out that she's pregnant, you know, she's 40 years old. So she's having a pregnancy that is, um, that's life or death for her, basically. It's putting a strain on her heart. Um, and she's told like, hmm, you probably die if you don't give her this pregnancy. And she's got a life that she's living and she's got a child that she's already raising a daughter and she makes a decision, um, that she prefers her life. And um, she has to seek out an illegal abortion through the James. And then once she meets a summer, it really, for me, it was when she makes this very life of firming choice for herself to save her life, um, that her, that everything begins for her, right? I read the script a long time ago and I remember thinking, this is like a coming of age story for a 40 year old, you know, like you've read coming of age for like a 17 year old, right? But you know, or like Jane Austin or something. But like this is a woman who's like well into what she thinks is a very comfortable life and then realizes, oh my god, I'm living in a bubble. I had no idea all these other things were out there and I had no idea that I had, it could find purpose in my life. And you know, she's, she just becomes a totally invigorated new person. But I do think that's also the beauty of growing up because I've talked about it on my show a lot. And your writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing that change us though, isn't it? It's meeting other human beings and building empathy for them and going like, oh, they're just a regular Joe that wants to do blah, blah, blah with their life and live their dreams. Oh, and they happen to be trans, right? Oh, that happens to me. Oh, they happen to be an ex-fellant. But like, I just think that the idea of people's whole humanity is just more interesting than like archetypes, tropes. Like, it's just like, there's so much more going on. I agree. I feel like even recently I felt like, oh my god, I never want to judge anyone again because we just have no idea. And it's actually, I judge myself for judging. I know. But then it's like, oh my god, we have no clue. So I think a really interesting scene that struck me in the movie was when you're in the boardroom surrounded by all men. Telling you, no, you can't get an abortion. And your character is like, wait, but like, even if it means the death of her mother, like what? And they're like, yeah, no. That scene was so powerful because I think how many times I've been in a room with all men. And it's just so profound to look back when I was younger. I wish I could have stood up for myself in certain situations. But have you experienced being in a room with men in an industry dominated by men? Like, of course. How have you evolved with your relationship to sticking up for yourself and trying to have a voice in a room where men have gone out? Well, that's what that scene really is about. It's about the spaces where women's voices are not valued. Of course, I've had many experiences in my life. I mean, I'm an actor in Hollywood. I've gone to many sets where I'm like, the only female actor in the cast or one of a very few. I mean, I've mentioned Seabiscuit. I had an amazing time making that movie, and it weren't like gal pals on that film. It made it me and a bunch of dudes. So, and that's true of like a lot of movies I've done. So that was my experience for a long time. And now, I see it for what it is. It's really, it's so interesting as you get a little more distance from that time when you're career. But also when you look, everything was anecdotal for a really long time. So I think pre-MeToo, pre-like, we wanna have more women on boards of Fortune, five-hundred companies. There's this whole movement right now that is about equality in a way, and then there's a backlash, which is about abortion rights, which is all about inequality. So there is a sense of like, women deserve more, right now, more representation. And that comes, I like to remind people that we are women as having political and ethical and economic power is brand-fucking new in the scope of human history. Our grandmothers did not work outside the home. Women did not work outside the home, make their own goddamn money until the 70s. You could not have a no-fault divorce until the 70s. You could not leave a husband just because you wanted to until the 70s. You had to have his permission to leave. So women have not had a sense of autonomy really or any political clout or economic power until my lifetime, you know, 40-something years, that's it. So it's fresh as a daisy when it comes to the patriarchy. The patriarchy is like, wait a minute, we had a system. Right. We loved it. We loved it. We were very happy with the system. Right. What do you mean? You're gonna work and like have opinions? You're gonna want things, you know? Hashtag me too, fuck you. And you're like, no, no, stop abusing us. Like maybe stop doing that. Right. And like, you know, I think it's what people are like, why did it take so long for instance, you know? I don't want to say his name. For a Hollywood mogul to get taken down. You know, why was he allowed to do that for so long? And you're like, because there were young women who had no careers and no money and no safety and no security. Right. And then they grew up and they had husbands and families and money and lives and security and careers and they were like, hey, that guy, that happened to me and they were finally safe enough to say it. And it takes feeling safe to actually stand up for yourself. That's what it took me. It took me feeling safe in spaces. And that comes with my own sense of security. Like if I say this out loud, I will still work in my industry. I will not be punished for saying this. It's my safety that has allowed me to speak out. It's a privilege to feel safe. I'm currently feel safe. And I experienced something where I didn't feel safe back in college and it was a power dynamic that was abused. And I now look back and I'm like, the reason I didn't speak up or didn't say anything was because I needed a job. Like I needed to get my foot in the door. I need and so I wonder if you have advice for young women maybe that I mean are in the workforce right now trying to figure out like I don't have that safety or security right now. Like I don't know if you've any advice of like how to navigate. I know it's very difficult. It is I would say they're safety also in numbers right. Like we do feel that. So like hashtag me too was about numbers. It was about like there were these anecdotes that were whisper campaigns in this. There's also now there's so much data. Like we just know we're like no 70% of women experience XYZ like stop saying you don't do this to us. Like do you know what I mean. So I think partly it's that we actually have data that supports our feelings you know things that we could be dismissed. Now it's like no no there's studies now like we're actually looking at it which by the way also fresh as a daisy super new to actually give a shit what's happening to women in the world. Haven't been studying us for very long. So that's wild too. My advice is like you're almost probably never alone. So you know and you don't need to compete with other women there is that it's not a pie with only so many slices. There really is opportunity out there for everybody. So I find that when people feel like they're competing again they don't feel safe. They don't feel secure where they are. So they feel like they can't reach out to somebody. Say it's you know the other woman on the team or the other woman in the womb or the look for those mentors talk to older ladies look you know reach out across your network talk to your friends about it. The shame and stigma around all of these issues is still so deeply felt by people and it's really hard to break out of and it's why people stay silent. And that is the best tool the patriarchy has. They are creating a sense of fear stigma and shame that allows women to sit silently at home and go like I guess I'm the only one and you you aren't you are not alone. You're not alone and I love that advice. Find the other people even though it's scary. It's better to you will feel better not being alone. That's the mate. Yes. It's the first step. Yep. Right. It's feeling on is you're being isolated on purpose. It's a tool. Don't let yourself be isolated. How do you respond to someone in conversation if they say that they think abortion access should be banned? I think that if abortion is not for them they should not get an abortion. And but I don't think that they have the right to tell other people what to do with their lives and bodies. We don't live in a theocracy. We live in a democracy. And I am trying to live the values of the constitution of our country, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, sense of equality and fairness. And that is not possible if an irresponsible ejaculation changes a woman's entire life. And for pregnancy with our maternal mortality rate, especially in the South, especially for black women, forced pregnancy could be a death sentence. It's just unacceptable. Yeah. It is inhumane. And I did a short documentary episode on I Went to North Carolina and I sat down with a bunch of women that were in the back. I saw that. It would change my life. Because there are so many people that are so ignorant to what's going on. It's so convoluted. And it's really disheartening. But I do feel positive in the sense that I feel like the generation is coming up. Like if they use their voice, things are going to continue to change and hopefully get better. Well, the midterm elections, I think, were a big win for abortion rights across the country. I think women turns out women like having human rights. And they vote. So who knew? What is that? But I do look, it's not the law of the land right now. Dobs overturned Roe v Wade. And there are states where abortion, health care cannot be accessed. And I think that the real harm that's happening to women in those places, and that's my first thought. And then I'm thinking about, how do we get it back? But this is the patriarchy. They steal our time. They're making us do it all over again. My fucking grandmother fought for this. By the way, nobody gave us the right to vote. Nobody gave us Roe v Wade. Nobody gives us shit. It has to be fought for and won. They don't want to give us anything. So we have to keep fighting. And that's where my sense of unalowness comes from. I know so many women are in this fight. And I also know that I'm on the side of the, it's morally correct. An unwanted child is a fucking tragedy. It's a tragedy. And I am not taking anything away from the holiness of a wanted baby by saying that. Right. Yeah. But it should be the woman whose body, it's her body, let her decide. How does that affect you? It truly just is to me. It's not fair. Yeah. Dudes, ejaculate inside ladies. And like, what, every time out, if that sperm meets the egg, you're supposed to stop making it into something it's not. It's fucking science. It's a sperm meeting an egg and acts. Nobody had, here's the thing, abortion exists because we as a society, and this is our lived reality, this is not some fairy tale, we have sex for fun. We don't always have sex to make children. We just have sex for fun. And so abortion is the insurance policy against unwanted pregnancy when we're just trying to have sex for fun. That's it. That's our living reality. Stop pretending that we're all sluts and like, people to have sex outside of marriage are going to hell. Not true. Also, by the way, I'm good with my God. You don't need to get involved. You're not my God. You don't get to tell me what's going to happen to me at the pearly gates. I'm good. I'll get there. I'll have my own conversation. Thank you so much. Don't worry about my soul. Right. I'm good. I'm good. Thank you. Where about your own soul? That if you worry about your God and what you think your God's going to do to you, I'm good. My God's cool with me. Yeah, I feel good. I feel great. I feel great. I feel great with my God. Exactly. No, that's why I do love the movie because no one wants to be preached at. No one wants to be told what you do. No one's homework. I get it. If you watch this movie, you feel how imbalanced the power dynamic is and you feel how isolated your character is in this moment. And it's incredible. I think people in the world in 2022 have gotten a little bit better with understanding that feminism is just us wanting to be equal to all people and equal opportunities. Thank you. But do you think being a feminist at all hurt you and your career? No. No. I do not make decisions out of fear. I really try not to. I don't say with my husband because I'm afraid of being alone. I say my husband because it's awesome to be married to my husband. Positive, positive, positive. So I don't make decisions about the roles I take or the movies I make, the stories I tell, the things I do, how I spend my time because I'm afraid of a reaction from somebody who doesn't like what I'm doing. Who, what? I do things from a place of positivity and wanting the world to be more equitable for people because I truly believe like my life is enriched when I invite that kind of energy into it. That's it. I just don't worry about haters, people who don't know me. I try to act correct. I am going to make mistakes. I do make mistakes. And then I just try to learn from them. I don't know. I really don't have a lot of regrets. I think about it all as learning. And my life hopefully will be long and I will continue to learn and be a better, bigger person. I know I have become. I'm all definitely wiser. I feel really great being the age I am, raising my kids the way I am in the life that I have right now. I do feel like, okay, I have figured a few things out. I'm not feeling right. I feel like you are so accomplished. And I think that I mean, I felt it being in this industry and starting to kind of use my voice. There are people that are like, don't get political. Why are you now just being like feminist? And I'm like, because it's such a privileged mentality to avoid, like, sure, like you can't just sit in your bubble and enjoy, I guess you could enjoy your life and just enjoy the privilege. I hate to tell your friends I want to say that to you. But like, you are, when you say you're a feminist, you are simply honoring the fact that you would not be sitting here talking to me. If women before you, if you were not standing on the shoulders of the women who came before you, that's it. So if you have any gratitude in your life, you as a woman, you have to kind of be a feminist because like, we only have these opportunities because of those women who left the house and took jobs and proved that women could work, could earn money, that women could make their own decisions, that women can be in office, that women can have jobs, that women can have a podcast that's fucking super successful that other people want to listen to. You're not the only one who did, you know what I mean? There's people that came before us that did this for us to have these opportunities. And to keep it going. That's, you gotta guess what? If you want to pay it forward, you're a feminist. Right. I really appreciate you coming today because you are so wise and have that experience that I, I just respect you in your career so much and you have such a great outlook on how to navigate a man's world. And I, I can't thank you for coming. So you're, you're really incredible. Thanks for having me. I'm a huge fan of you. Thank you. Look, you've done, look at you who made. You did it. So did you. Look at us. Yeah, but two women sitting here thriving here we go.