NBA Panic Teams, Best QBs Ever, and Sorry Seattle With Rob Mahoney, Chris Russo, and Danny Kelly

Raise the rudder, raise the sails, raise the sails! Captain and unidentified ship approaching, over! Roger that, wait, is that an enterprise sales solution? Meet sales professionals, not professional sailors, with LinkedIn ads. You can target the right people by industry job title and more. Start converting your V2B audience into high quality leads today. Spend 200 pounds on your first campaign and get a 200 pound credit for the next one. Go to LinkedIn.com slash lead to claim your offer. Start with terms and conditions apply. The Bill Simmons podcast presented by Fandole Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where we have two rewatchables this week. We put one up already on Monday night. We did just one of the guys, a 1980s HBO classic. We did with Kyle Brandt and Joe and Robinson. I had a lot of fun. It's been on the list for years. We are moving rewatchables from video from YouTube to Netflix next week. You will still be able to watch it on Spotify as well and get it as a podcast. Wherever you get your podcast, but the video will be on Spotify. And then starting on Monday with Netflix. So we are doing one more before we do that on Wednesday night. It is going to be another 48 hours, the Eddie Murphy, Nick Nolte sequel, controversial sequel. I have a lot of thoughts, but it's me, Van Lath and Chris Ryan. Let's come in Wednesday night and then coming next Monday on Netflix because we're going to try to at least for the first few weeks to movies that are also on Netflix. We're going to be doing Zodiac, which is a movie we did. I think the first year of the feed, we didn't have all the categories. The pod was under an hour. I wasn't on it. So Zodiac will be on Monday night on the rewatchables feed and also the video will be on Netflix. So you can watch the movie on Netflix anytime over the next five days. Speaking of rewatchables. So I mentioned how there is a Bill Simmons podcast live in Los Angeles on February 11th. And you can get it's at the will turn ringer.com slash events. There might be a couple tickets left. I'm not positive, but I'm just warning you now. It is a Bill Simmons podcast. But a rewatchables will be breaking out during this podcast. I think I'm allowed to do that since I host both shows, but. There's just heavy rumors right now about a Michael Mann movie. And maybe even a Michael Mann movie that we've already done. And that it's going to be me and Chris Ryan and Van Lathen just heavy rumors. I can't confirm. Can't confirm them yet. But there's a lot of bus. We'll see if Sean strontia reports on it. But so yeah, it's a Bill Simmons podcast live. We might even do a little NBA at the top for about 15 minutes because NBA All Star weekend is going to be hitting that weekend. But there might be a rewatchables breaking up. So I'm just telling you now. Anyway, coming up on this podcast, second one of the week, we're going to talk to Rob Mahoney about what the hell do you do NBA teams, especially with the Warriors losing Jimmy Butler last night. So we're going to hit a few teams there. The legend, the mad dog Chris Russo is going to come on to talk about Josh Allen, Hall of Fame quarterbacks and just what happens if you fall short in the playoffs over and over again. How do we think about you? And then last but not least, I made a mistake on Sunday's podcast. I'm going to hash it out with the ringers Danny Kelly. And we're going to talk about the Seahawks and the NFL. So big, big, big ass podcast coming up. If you notice, I didn't talk about college football and any of these segments because we have good college football pods. We've Todd McShay that broke everything down with the ringer tailgate guys that did an awesome job last night. So if you want college football, go listen to those podcasts. I'm doing football in basketball today. We're going to take a break, Pearl Jam and then Rob Mahoney. The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by Fandall. Playoff mode is on. Fandall's got it all. Same game, Parles, quick bets for jumping in lives. Offers to booster winnings every game day. You do not want to miss out on the playoff action. The remaining playoff action we have on Fandall, download the Fandall app or head to Fandall.com slash B.S. To get started, 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. Kentucky, Wyoming, game, prom, cold win, energy, gambler or visit rg-help.com call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, taping this with Rob Mahoney early afternoon Pacific time. I was actually watching last night in Jimmy Butler. Clearly did something to his knee and fell to the ground and took the Warriors season with him. And it ties into a game we're going to play called, okay, what the hell do we do now? Go and stay. As a long time curry season tickets guy just rooting for him to be in my life for as long of an NBA season as possible every year. This feels insurmountable Rob. I don't know what they do. I don't I looked at it. I'm sure you did too. I looked at spot track. I made up fake trades. I just tried to figure it out and I just couldn't figure it out. This season is pretty much cooked, but they just didn't have 20 points to spare. Much less everything else Jimmy Butler gives them. The offense does not have that much give to it right now. So all you can really do is I think maybe take like a slightly longer view, take a little bit more risk than you would otherwise. It's just this isn't a front office that takes a lot of big swings that makes a lot of big gambles. And so I don't know how much I'm expecting them to do that even with Jimmy Butler down. Yeah, I mean, basically your gamble is going to be, hey, John, I think Caminga, how you doing? Want to get some conversation with John the Caminga? Breakfast at this point 930 breakfast. Want to get some eggs? Maybe some yogurt, some granola. I don't know what else they would do. The only trade I could think of and I don't even know why Philly would do this is if Philly just wants to get off this year, I think he's going to take us two more years of Paul George. And you're like, take Butler, he's back, I'll start break next year as an expired contract. We'll take the extra Paul George here. Here's a protected pick. And any interest in getting off Paul George. That's pretty dark. If that's where we're going, it's like right off the bat. Dark for everyone, including Paul George. It's totally my trade value. A guy who just tore his ACL. That's pretty pretty rough. Paul George, I will mention the last 17 games is 16 and five and four and shooting 37% for three and playing 33 minutes of game Rob. When he's out there, he's played pretty well. And so the same is true for Joe Lnbee. I know we want to talk about the sixers too, but they've got like at least some momentum and something going. And it felt like the Warriors maybe finally did too. They were finally stringing some games together. It felt like the rotation was maybe starting to finally make some sense. It just sucks to see it fall apart like this, especially when as you mentioned, like the big picture in terms of solutions, there's nothing that's going to fix them for the season. I think I think it's a matter of for them. If they want to target guys who might be like by low kind of candidates, who could be something for them next season, who can give them something beyond what they already have. If you call New Orleans and kick around the idea of like bringing in someone like Eve Meesee, for example, if you talk about, even like GG Jackson, like trying to find guys who are on other teams benches, who aren't delivering, who aren't being trusted, who aren't, you know, fulfilling the brief for whatever they're being asked to do. And thinking, okay, if we put them around Steph and Dremon and Jimmy whenever he comes back next year, could they be something for us? Because otherwise they just don't have that many guys who are rock solid steady rotation players. Yeah. I mean, the other option is just to do that with the guy you already have on your roster in Kominga. You could do that. This would be, what is this 9.0 of the Kominga era of talking to yourself into it? But this is, I think they're going to get this one right, you know, 9.0. Like the ninth try, it really is the charm. It really is. Well, they're 25 and 19. Their net rating was up to 3.0, which was eighth in the league. And I actually saw their last couple of games because I'd kind of written them off. And obviously with O.K.C. in Denver, it's hard to imagine a worse. Yeah. But they still have a top 10 guy. And it did feel like they were rounding into something. And I think that was what was frustrating about last thing. Because they were beating Miami and they look good. And they felt like they had figured some stuff out. I was going through the Curry bad luck in the 2020s, starting with the second clay injury. They get that high pick and it's the COVID draft when you can't, you don't have a March badness to work out of. You can't really work anyone out. You're doing stuff by Zoom. That 21 draft when they're splitting the room on Kominga versus Wagner, Moody versus Shengu in a Murphy. And they just go over to with those decisions. The Dream on pool disaster right after they win this miracle, 22 title. Yep. Not dealing Komingo when they could have, I think I'm going to count. Which time? Well, out of the many times. But especially like two, two plus years ago, like they, I think could have gotten Karruso form. I think it was that level of, like he was at that Josh Gidey trade value level. They just didn't pull the trigger. And then the ACL last year, you could flip it and say they had so much good luck. Sure. From, oh, nine to, from, from Minnesota passing on Curry twice, right, to Clay falling down in the draft where they did the cap spike all the time in the second round. All of these things that happened, the bucks having a choice between Monta Ellis and Curry and picking Monta Ellis and the bogate trade. That's a real thing that happened. Yeah. So you could argue they used up maybe all their luck after the cap spike. I don't know. Maybe so. I mean, it's still like so much of what goes wrong with the warriors has nothing to do with Steph not living up to his job, right? He still elevates everyone around him. He still makes this team incredibly functional. Despite the fact that they don't have anything resembling traditional shot creation, right? Like he is the engine that makes it all make any modicum of sense. And there's just only so much you can, you can only do that for so long. And I think we've gotten used to having the conversation about, oh, he's doing this at this age is in this remarkable. It still is. It's just everything around him has to, has to bear some load, right? Like it has to carry some of the weight for the team. And increasingly, Dreymon can only do so much. And even Jimmy Butler can only do so much. And even Anthony Melton is unavailable every third game. And like he's one of the most reliable players at this point. So he just needed a little more. I'd basically every step. And if any one of those things you mentioned goes a little differently, if like Moses Moody is 40% better as a player, 30% better as a player than he is, maybe Golden State's entire trajectory looks totally different. So the Porter trade, which I think they were considering and didn't seem like they were that interested in is one that could do with coming in salaries and basically try to replace Butler's production with him. I don't think that changes their destiny as a team that's not going to the title. Is a Zion Ristle dice roll? Yeah. At least we're having, if you and I are running the Warriors, I think we go out and get a coffee and talk about pros and cons of Zion maybe for 45 minutes. You have the conversation. You kick all of the odds on that dice roll. It feels a little loaded to me. Like that's a casino. I don't know that I want a step foot in. Yeah, that's one of those where they've changed the blackjack to five to five, even but I don't know if that's the case. Trade Murphy, Hail Mary. Yeah. That's the last deed available, which apparently, you know, supposedly the Pelicans would never dream of trading trade Murphy. I find it hard to believe he's not available if it's a Godfather offer, but I don't even know if they have enough for a Godfather offer. So sadly, this is a wrap and I don't think Courier ever leaves. So I'm sure day three of this will be, what if they trade a Curry? I'm sure that'll go, but I just don't think he wants that. I don't think they want that. I just don't think that's happening. What might happen is the, my knees bothering me. Sure. Like we could zag that way too. They're not that far away from being able to zag the other way and getting a tough time pick, but it's crazy. All right. Next team, the Nix. As we continue to play, what the hell do we do now? The Nix are two and not in their last 11. And you could spin that one in two ways. Teams they lost to were pretty good. They lost the Phoenix twice, Spurs, Atlanta, Philly, playing pretty well, Detroit. Yep. Golden State during a nice little run for them. Dallas has been frisky lately. They lost them yesterday and then the one bad one was Sacramento. So you could say, well, yeah. Okay. Those aren't awful losses. But if you had a lot of spinning like you were, well, I'm trying. Don't make yourself dizzy here. The problem is if you had a television, you actually watch what was going on. It was a little different. The Dallas game was a disgrace. Who's in a Sacramento at this point of what Sacramento is when they're minus 11 net rating and just a disaster? The Nix are five and ten in their last 15, 26 net rating, two and nine in their last 11. Towns is now the one getting the most fingers pointed. I have some other ideas that I'll give you in a second. But what do you see? What do you think's wrong? Yeah. I mean, normally with teams like this, the Nix are on paper, still a good team. They're in a conference that has a lot of opportunity for them to go deep. Normally I would be pretty conservative with the team like the Nix. I just think something is really off here. Like it feels awful in ways that transcend just the last like three weeks, right? That's been a particularly bad stretch. But really you're looking at two years now of the team's best players, not fully understanding how to best play together. How to work off each other in total. Like they're quote unquote best, like best five on the floor this season. They're losing their minutes. And that was not quite sure under tips, but there was something that was like a little off. Clearly they don't fully understand exactly how to play off each other in this offense. Defensively, they're just like structural problems with having Jalen Brunson and Kat as like core members of your team that are always going to be issues. Yeah. They can find ways to work around some of that stuff. And we saw it last year in the playoffs, right? Like who they can be collectively when they do tap into the best versions of all that. I just, I'm pretty apprehensive about just trusting this team to figure it out because they've had time now under two different coaches. And I wouldn't say they ever fully figured it out. They fired the first coach because the process behind the team felt busted. And now at this point, the same roster more or less with some additional supplementary players hasn't really figured out anything different. Yeah. To me, it's like watching a football team that spent all this money on the two cornerbacks. In this case, that would be bridges and in and OB. Sure. It's like, we have these awesome wing defenders. It's like great, love wing defenders, need them in this day and age. And those are like the awesome shutdown cornerbacks. And then the defensive line is just awful. And everybody can run on them and there's no pass rush. And it's like, we have these quarterbacks. The quarterback has seven seconds to throw. Kind of makes it tougher at the quarterbacks. I just think this started with, you know, this has been Brunson's whole career as the undersized guy. But I think Indiana really tapped into something against the Knicks with the guards. And just being able to attack him with multiple people who had the ball and multiple people that he was having trouble staying in front of. Not to mention towns too. And I really feel like the biggest thing that has happened this season is how many teams have modeled themselves after Indiana and all these different ways. Indiana, it's weird because OKC has been, you know, the North Star of the league and the team you have to get over. But I think Indiana was the one everybody's like, hey, we could do that too. We could full core press. We could use a bench. We could have multiple guards at the same time and spread the floor and have people attacking 101. The Celtics. The Celtics are doing a better version of what the Pacers did last year. They had the same fucking recipe. I mean, the version was pretty good. I got them to be in the finals during the regular season. Like they're net rating and stuff. The Celts are second in net rating. But they're doing the Pacers. They're just doing an imitation of it. Right. And I think it's bad for Brunson. I think what they go into these games and these, you just have all these different guards that are just attack, attack, attack. And then on top of it, you have towns going into this funk. And those two things alone, I think not to mention they don't seem to trust their bench very much. But that's what I see. Does that add up for you? It squares for me. I mean, Jaylen Brunson is one of the best in the world at kind of making something out of nothing in some of these situations. Just like broken possessions, situations where she shouldn't be able to create an advantage. It does. Obviously baiting guys into the air and drawing fouls and doing all those things. But he has to do it a lot. And to your point about the pressure that other teams are applying, full court and otherwise, that takes its toll. You want to find ways to get easier mechanisms of offense. And this is a team that has to have overwhelmingly good offense to overcome everything that they're not on defense collectively. And it doesn't feel overwhelming right now. It feels like they can be a decent offensive team and maybe a fundamentally flawed defensive team. Yeah. And you can get away with towns when he's 25 and 12. Last night, he was 18 or 11, shooting 32% from three. And when it's going badly for him and he's in one of those towns, funk. You really feel it. Yes. I would say he's first team on Bay of I'm really feeling it when it's not going for well for you. You just feel it. You feel this teammates. I think teams attack them. They try to fuck with them. You saw it go and state the other night. Tramon's just messing with them to see what he can get away with basically. And his mistakes are among the loudest in the entire league. It's not just like guys like you and I watching the games, you feel that as a teammate, right? Like when he messes something up, it feels glaring. It feels like something that, oh my God, now we have to talk about this. Now we have to call time out. Now we have to rally the troops to address this thing that Karl is doing or not doing. Like that's a not insignificant part of like the ecosystems of these teams. Do you think, so I genuinely think Davis for towns was going to gain traction as we got close to deadline because that was a trade that made a lot of sense for both teams. It's just a really good basketball trade. But if you're Dallas, like, yeah, we could put him with Gafford and he could be like a stretch forward. You know, we need more shooting when Kuala comes back. Like there's some good things with this. And we're getting out of the Davis business before he gets hurt again. Yeah. Then he got hurt again, became a move point. I say this tentatively. Not happy about it. LeBron for towns is sitting there. Okay, you're at least a little happy about it. I it's just it's so classic just the stupid internet trade. Somebody would make up. And yet I'm looking at it going, not a bad trade. Like for to solve two things, right? If you're the next, just trying to get out of the town's business before that track gets crazy. If you're the Lakers, this is a pretty interesting guy to put with Luca. I'm now going to war with Luca towns and reach together. I don't have to worry about getting nothing for LeBron a year from now. And if I'm the next, it's like, well, this will be weird with Bronson and LeBron. And, you know, all of a sudden, I don't really have a center. I'm going to have to rely on Mitchell Robinson. There's all these other variables that are opening up. It's just fundamentally a pretty interesting basketball trade. My take is way more fun for the league. If you just do that right now. Most fun. Like, side me up from an entertainment fun standpoint of just towns for LeBron, but you seem a little more skeptical. I just LeBron's 41 years old. I want to throw it on him that he needs to now save the New York Knicks. And especially needs to make sense of their defense in some way. I think obviously adding LeBron as a secondary playmaker, as somebody who's going to take, you know, relieve some of the pressure off of Bronson. That's a hugely valuable thing. I think where you and I are different is like, for everything that towns is done and not done. And as frustrating as he's been, especially over the last couple of weeks, I'm not operating from the mindset of like, we have to get out of the Carl Towns business, right? Like I'm open to any town's trade. Certainly like an Anthony Davis one, I think might be more appealing, especially if like your medical staff believes that he might be back in five to six weeks, right? That it might be a non surgical recovery for him. That's something that would be really interesting to me. But like, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it if I don't know if he's coming back this year. I think that's where I have moved on the mix. As if you asked me a month ago, should they even consider trading for somebody who has a serious injury and might come back or said, obviously not there. And so they're so well positioned in the east, they're talented enough. I'm going to trust them to figure it out. I no longer trust this team to figure it out. Like I think they need to consider some pretty dramatic changes. Yeah. They don't necessarily have to be towns oriented, but he's the natural guy you look at. Yeah. Because that whole identity matched a lot of what we're watching with some of the successful teams this year. Like that over over achieving underdogs, scrappy. That's who they were two years ago. That's who it's all right. They were at times last year. And now they feel like just your classic everybody's making a ton of money on an NBA team. I thought this was going to go better. We just see it. We've seen this happen for the last 40 years with certain teams. I don't know what the answer is with having towns and Brunsson at the same time. And I think back to that Celtic series, which was the best series day one in the last years of Brunsson. And the Celtics just, we were saying as it was happening, it was one of the dumbest offensive game plans. The way they played them was the one way that was great for the next offensive. It's like, we're just going to launch three. It's like the next are like great. That sounds awesome. Please keep doing that. And they were able to scrap and win. But I do wonder what Brunsson and Towns together, how sustainable that is. All right. Next one. Speaking of the Celtics, the Tatum's back Celtics. This is much, we can do this quick because I've talked about the Sutsal at. It's a weird team, but they do have Tatum coming back as the quote unquote trade deadline move. And they might have Tatum coming back as the trade deadline. Well, did you see what did you see yesterday? I saw it. The work out in front of reporters is like that's basically that's now that that's like the soft, that's the friends and family launch of a restaurant. Come on in. We're going to try to make some tortellini. Soft launching Jason Tatum's return is a very funny way for the Celtics season to go. He's coming back. I expect that he will come back at some point in what form is my question, right? Because 60% Jason Tatum and 80% Jason Tatum, those are radically different players. What if I offered you a small dose minutes version of a 90% Jason Tatum? How are we accomplishing this medically? Like does he need to have like a cybernetic arm? Like what's happening? Well, I think he's going to be all right. Like I think he's just going to be fine. I don't think he's going to be fine to be playing 39 minutes of game like he did before the injury. But the question, the text threads that I'm on because this team has over achieved 26 and 16, they're third in that rating now. Crazy. And when you look at like the bigger stats with them, it's just a fucking weird team. Like they're first in turnovers, which is great. They're six in offensive rebounds. Big part of the strategy of like just shooting three crashed the boards basically. Second in May threes, they're seventh in three part percentage. They're also 29th in free throw attempts. They're 29th in assists. They're 30th in pace. If I just gave you those three and I'd be like, what do you think the team's offensive rating would be with those three stats? You'd be like, I don't know 20th? Yeah, 24th maybe like it's it's not a great recipe by that standard, but they make it, I mean, they make it work. And by that, I mean, mostly Jalen Brown makes it work. They end the three guards and the fact that they always have these two guards and White has been in a slump lately, which is one of the reasons the record is dipped. But looking at the minutes yesterday, Brown plays 38, White plays 37, Pritchard 33, Simon's 24, K to 28, guards of 15. And then how's their Walsh and Shireman are at 57? And you figure, Tatum comes back and he's just playing 20 minutes. He's grabbing 10 minutes from somebody, which I would assume is that Shireman Walsh combo. But then on one of my threads, we were like, are we sure, Pritchard should be playing 33 minutes a game? I don't think he should. I don't think so. So maybe he gets 10 of those. Then there was, well, what happens in a playoffs? Because I don't know if they could play Garza, who I think I like Garza, but I wonder if he's going to get targeted. It's like, could Jason Tatum, gasp, place some stretch five? Why are we doing this to him? Like the man is on a surgically repaired lake and you're asking him to play like part time center. Basically going small ball with Tatum in the Garza spot. And here's why I bring this up. I don't know how this is going to play out. And it's one of the weirder variables I remember where a team that's playing really well, that's a two seed is now just bringing this guy who was the fourth best player in the league last year. And he has to fit into what's happening. And I don't know how they're going to do it. And I don't know what he's going to be happy with. And then if I'm Jaylen Brown, who you didn't see the game last night, he's guarding Kate on one end. He's doing everything on the other end. And he's the best forward in the league right now. And I don't want him to lose some of the stuff he's doing. Totally. And he's going to want to prove that he's so they have, it's just this. There's a lot of balance. And can we keep the identity of this year's team and not be last year's team? And I don't know how they're going to unlock it. I think that whole that balance is incredibly delicate. And you're right. You should be mindful of what it does to Jaylen Brown as a player to introduce this huge variable when he has been able to dictate terms in ways that have been incredibly beneficial to him and wildly successful given all of our expectations. I would be mindful of that. I would be mindful of Jason Tatum, as you said, like, is he going to be happy with this sort of arrangement? It's really hard to ask a competitor who is that talented and that successful to, oh, you're just going to play 20 minutes of game. You're going to be on these hard minutes limits, even as you work your way back. Even for someone who I'm sure wants to be a part of it. Talk to him after a competitive crunch time or fourth quarter where he's not allowed to play because he already hit his limit in that game. Right. So basically you're trusting him to be responsible this minutes. You're trusting the Celtics coaching staff to be responsible this minutes. You're trusting every member of that roster to be like so squarely in their zone in terms of role that they will understand what Tatum coming back means and doesn't mean. There's just a lot of ways that a really successful season could just be upset all of a sudden. I'm not saying don't do it. If you have Jason Tatum available and he's healthy enough to play, he should play. But these are huge variables for a team that as you said is basically strung all this together because they have overachieved, because they have tapped into something like kind of magical in the alchemy of the group. And now you're challenging the alchemy of the group. Yeah. And the style that they play is different with how even how they use the two bigs to set picks, how much runs through the guards compared to how much ran through Tatum last year. So it is, it's going to be fascinating. But people really like the Celtics team and people are also really excited that Jason Tatum might come back. And it feels like if you have a great coach or a really good coach and I think that Mizzou has been really good and a good organization that doesn't want to rush them back that trust. You've got to come back. Like this team I think is pretty realistic. But it's definitely out. What are we going to do? Orlando just quickly. So they're 23 and 19. Every time I become intrigued by them or think maybe something will happen, they just suck in a game. They've got some bad losses. Like the last one they had though getting killed by Memphis and London or whatever the whole way that came. I guess the thing I keep coming back to Rob is I think we have a, we're halfway through the season. There's some really good advanced stats now. There's good sample sizes. There's good five man lineup stuff now. There's even good like last 20 games where you can look at a team like the Clippers and be like, throughout the record, look at the last 20. Carter, Sugs, Bane, Palo and Franz is plus 18 per one. 100. So we've known 23 19. I've had some weird injuries. I'm just looking at that and going, you know what? Let's, we can make a run. We could be Dallas two years ago. Let's just trust the process, right? Is that fair? Totally. I mean, maybe that's a lofty ambition for them, but it is what they should at least think about embracing. And I think they've been a different team when Jalen Sugs has been healthy. They've been, certainly they've opened my eyes just with the Anthony Black like a wild card of him. I mean, God, he's been incredible. So like as far as navigating the deadline goes, I don't think they should do anything dramatic. I want to see the healthiest version of Sugs and Palo and Franz and Bane in particular. And now adding Anthony Black to that mix and some capacity. I want to give them a shot to show something and to prove something. And I think they've earned that. You can still shore up around the edges a little bit. And I think you can maybe find another backup guard who can give you something a little more than what they've gotten from Tyas Jones who has been muted at best and kind of writing the bench at worst. I'm like, I would assume you in Chicago. Like is that a guy that's pryable, right? Someone who's like an energy defender who's hitting like 45% of his threes this season. Could that be an option? Is, you know, the Anthony Simon stuff has always been out there. Is there like a mutually beneficial Simon's Goga Patatze Oriented deal that gets Boston to back up big and gets Orlando some shooting? I don't even know. But that's kind of where I'd be looking is like that fourth guard spot basically. I think there's some room for Orlando to do something. Would you like to know my Anthony, Anthony Simon's update for whether I'd want him to be trader or not? I would love to hear it. Have you got my newsletter? I have a sub stack. I don't want them to trade them. No? You're holding on tight. I like them. I actually think it's taking them a while to figure out what he is and isn't. And I don't know. He had a game a couple of games ago when they just spread the floor with them and kind of unleashed him and it was awesome. And he was just, I mean, he has, I think out of all the guards, it's weird. One of the best first steps when he's really like just zooms by people and he's also like one of the best. I'm feeling it shooters. I think in the league. Totally. If you look at the advanced asset in the last two months, combined with just like the way he's been shooting, like I just wouldn't trade him because there's an easy Malik Monk trade sitting there. They wanted to shed salary and get under the first apron and they could be involved in a variety of ways. I actually think Malik Monk would be really good with this team. I wouldn't trade Simon's. I think the team like some, like the players like them, the coaches like them. So when, anyway, when I look at Orlando. Yeah, it's like, is there like a Kobe Jones, Alvarado, you mentioned to Simon, like one of the, is somewhere, one of those three levels of guards that they could add to give them a little flexibility. I'm more interested in like, what am I getting from Palo? Why aren't you better than you were last year? Why are we so beholden to you at the end of these games? And are you just going to be Sheree from Dorriehem from the 2002 season that's school life? You're just a 21 and eight and you're taking some 20 footers. Okay. This a little harsh. I know. I'm being honest. Look, he's been disappointing this season in playoff games. He has consistently been like one of the only guys who shows up, right? Who shot isn't completely failing him. Who's kind of like able to, I say force it, but I mean it as a compliment, like force his way through tough defense and create opportunities and shots in ways that other guys can't always do. So I want to see that. I want to see that. Yeah, there's things that I wonder like if you gave all the magic fans truth, Serm, and they woke up from a nap and you gave them true Serm, and you said, we've traded either Franz or Palo, we'll be more disappointing to you. I wonder what the answer would be. I would love to hear it. I feel like Palo's approval rating in Orlando among magic fans is still pretty high. Now, nationally, a lot of people who are skeptics, a lot of people who are wondering about, you know, whether it's the jump shooting efficiency or the defense or kind of like who he ultimately will be. Yeah, I feel like magic fans still like Palo. Here's the best thing for Palo and the best case for he'll be fine. Look at what happened to Jalen Brown. What we've learned is social media can just beat out all the bad habits of a player and turn them into an awesome person. Well, it'd be air. This is the thing. We're so worried about the effects that the social media have on the use on our brains. Yeah. What if it can fix that? Jalen Brown now has a crossover dribble and doesn't move the ball in traffic and has devastating to play. It's great. Incredible. I think Orlando is fine. I was actually looking at the odds for them on Fando for Eastern Conference. I thought they'd be higher, but it's only 10 to 1. I could see them making little run here. Sure. Like a little post all star break. It's like Orlando is 18 and two in their last 20. I'm not ruling them out. Philly from what the hell are we going to do now standpoint? I think their fans really liked what was going on with this team and then Paul George came back and then bead came back and they both are playing and beads played 12 of the last 14. It's played three minutes of game. Like knock on every piece of wood you have in your home, but like it's kind of playing pretty well, kind of moving and looking like Joel and bead again. Three point shot seems gone. The second jump stuff's gone. Sure. It looks like one of his legs doesn't really work anymore. But that's what this Tim Duncan. I don't know about that. Tim Duncan's last seven years. I think he was on one leg. Like eight years. It's fine. Um, rebounding not where it used to be. No. But it still feels like he can score when he wants to. So he's at least become almost like the greatest version ever of like O'Gascus in the late 2000s where it's like we can throw this guy the ball and he'll get a basket for us. The greatest version of Zodruna so Galasca. I'm sure that's what Joel and bead has been trying before. I know that was what he was hoping for. Um, and Paul George has been playing too as we discussed earlier and yet it hasn't really affected their record. And now when you watch them, it's like it's like when you're on Prestige TV with, with a bunch of our shows. It's like the TV show where there's two shows going on at the same time. It's like the writer's room is struggling to pull it all together. I like this procedural room over there. I'm not sure about like the romcom going on here. Can we do more of the procedural? And I think that's how the six or fans feel about Maxine Edgecom. I think that's probably true. I personally am waiting for the bottle episode of Dominic Barlow and his exploits. Like I'm into that personally, but the solo episode. Yeah. This thing though, like this is what's hard about the Sixers is the East is open enough and they're good enough as is. They're like, I think they should consider themselves to be a pretty serious player and more buyer than seller. But what exactly do they need? Because they're not complete. But you look up and down the roster and it's like, yeah, they could use a little more forward depth. They could probably use a different kind of creator, especially off the bench to kind of compliment what they have. But you don't want to take the ball out of Tyrus Maxi's hands too much. You don't want to take away Joel and Beads momentum. Like they kind of have some of the stuff that should work in theory, but it's hard to know how much to hedge against Paul George and Joel not being available for this game or that. Right. And what exactly you need to add to this group. It's just not immediately clear to me where the obvious upgrade is. Well, and they have this Grimes contract. That's basically one year deal, which I think is hard to trade. At some point they can trade it though, right? They can't trade it. So right right right right now is when it's available. Yeah. And I think maybe the Grimes contract plus Kelly Ubrey, like plus potentially. That's the identity of people. Yeah. That's that's starting to like now that's a conversation. And those are two guys who can actually help teams present tense and maybe can help the Sixers resolve some of like this redundancy basically. There's a trade asset that they have that would be a trade asset for me if I ran another team. But I'm not sure it's actually a trade asset anymore. Is Jared McCain? Sure. Sure. Look good for a cup of coffee last year. We got super excited about him. Got her. Now he's a Delaware blue coat. Now he's in the G league, which is just incredible. I remember before the year talking about could they put Paul George's contract with Jared McCain as the asset attached to try to get something better than Paul George? Now it's like, I don't even know if McCain's an asset, but I still I would trade for that guy like like to me, that's like a guy Minnesota should be staring at. Oh, yeah, that'd be awesome. Um, but there's a couple teams who are Houston. There's or or Golden State like teams that are just like in a position to take a chance on a guy who isn't as good as he could be right this second. And who I don't think has a path with the Sixers. They have their back court like he's just never he's going to be a 15 and 20 minute of game guy for them for eternity. They have their two guys. VJ is way too good. Like, yeah, he's just seeing. He's just not going to play. And I'm sure maybe that's part of the thing with him that. Oh, this sucks. Like I have my path is to be the third guard on this team. I that guy is an LA high school guy. I watched him in high school. Like, I just thought he was awesome. I like the mid Duke. I think there's really something there and that I think is a real asset. So what do they need? Probably some Paul George swing insurance. Like if you're in a playoff series. Yeah. Who's guarding Jalen Brown? If I catch the Celtics, right? On that team, I don't know. No easy answers. Yeah. Currently, I think it probably someone like Kelly Ubreh, right? Getting a bulk of that responsibility. And that's, you know, flighty at best. Not awesome. Um, and then the upbeat thing. I guess this has been a success when we thought two months ago that he see monkey was not going to be in the week. Yeah. I mean, beats the alternatives. Yeah. I would say this is we're in the pleasant surprise. Yes. Stage of this. So there are odds to win the East or 11 or one. So Fando has Detroit of plus 330. Celts plus 340. Nix plus 390. Caves 5 to 1. Magic 10 to 1. Sixers 11 to 1. And then the only. Sir and the other team you'd want to know the odds for. I think that's really it. The Charlotte Hornets. What are the Hornets odds to win the East? 125 to 1. I'm glad you asked. You know what? Speaking of Bilo. Speaking of incredible five band lineup, advanced metrics. See now we're talking. They were second in net rating with their best five at everyone in the league over 100 minutes with the Kinepo and Miller and, um, the center. Good. And they've like kind of their West Coast trip was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, I went at Zach on Twitter. Zach and I have been feuding about the Hornets ever since he laughed me out of the room. And I said they were number six is my lead past. Oh no, they should be higher than six as your league past. They're great. They've been over just a reliable entertaining team this whole time. So you're what do we do now as the sixers is? Let's wait another week to see how healthy these cars are. Couldn't hurt or like, you know, modest upgrades on the bench. I think would be nice. Otherwise, like, see if you can string together some of these contracts to make a meaningful deal. All right. Quick break. And then, uh, we'll quickly talk about the Lakers and some others. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandall four teams left two games this weekend, a trip to Super Bowl LX. I think that's 60 on the line. Fandall is turning on playoff mode. And right now, all customers get a profit boost pack during the conference championship round. They pack loaded with multiple profit boost waiting for you in the app. More boost means more way hits to level up your playoff bets. And on Thursday's pod, we are going to break down not only the games themselves, but a bunch of fun props related to the game. So stay tuned for that. Visit fender.com slash NFL grab your profit boost pack for the NFC and aFC championship games. You must be 20 plus president select states are 18 plus in president DC Kentucky Wyoming Optumacryd bonus issued as nom drawbook profit boost tokens restrictions apply, including any token expression max wage or amount see terms at sportsbook.fandall.com. Game problem call 100 gambler or visit rg-help.com call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat Connecticut. The Lakers are my favorite. What do we do now, team? Because they're 25 and 16. And if you just freeze frame it right there and they're 25 and 16. They have basically the same record as the Celtics. What's wrong? Why are you complaining? It's like well, you haven't watched them. They're last 20, they're 29th defensive rating. And there's 30 teams. That's kind of a big deal. Yeah. They're 25th and net rating minus 4.7. I thought this was funny. They're 26th and rebounds 28th and blocks and 23rd and made threes. If I just gave you those three stats, you're like that team's probably bad. They are second and free throw attempts, but that's just because they're the Lakers and the league is rigged for them. And because Luke Adonchich is the best at doing that basically in the whole league right now. Yeah. Yeah. They have a bunch of expiring contracts. Ruiz Vincent Kleber Kleber and it's basically 40 right there. Eight and eight Vanderbilt's 11, 12 and 13. Then they have some smaller ones. All the Laker fans, I know hate the fact that this might be the team in March. I don't feel like they're just trying dead at the poker table with the defense. What do you do now for the Lakers? The defense is really bad and it's awful. There is not one move or one series of moves. I don't even think that fixes all that this season. It's to me, the framework is, can you hit a solid double? Right? Can you find a contributing perimeter player who will be a part of this team next year who will make some of this make sense? I'd be calling every day about like Tari Esen, about Anthony Melton, about Keon Ellis, about like maybe if the bucks go to shit and they start fire sailing guys off, like Ryan Rollins, someone like that, right? Who can you get in on that can give you? Honestly, the skill is great and you want guys who can contribute offensively, but they just need somebody who is a dynamic enough athlete that when they try to get back on defense, it doesn't look like they're running a sand dune. They just don't have anyone who makes getting up and down the court look easy right now. And that feels like a huge problem. Every time they bump up against any young team, any athletic team, any team that likes to run, they just work them because of that. And so they just feel like they're stuck in the mud because that's where a lot of other guys are athletically right now. Yeah, I was saying I wanted my Laker fan friends. These teams have the Lakers on the schedule. And if you're a younger team that likes to go up and down and try to score points, you must be like, we're playing the Lakers tonight. It's going to be great. I'm going to try to score 40 points. I mean, why wouldn't you? Like that opportunity is there for you. And again, it's like there isn't one silver bullet solution to that problem, but you need somebody who's going to make sense longer term, early medium term with Luca and Austin Reeves if that works with LeBron. If you want to consider him part of the mix beyond this season, like they just need somebody who fits better than what they have. And they just don't have enough actual supplementary talents who fit that. If you catch them on the wrong night, they have successfully replicated the energy of the guys who have been playing pickup for three hours and decided to play one more game. And they realized halfway through that it was a bad idea and they probably shouldn't have, but they still have to finish the game. Been guilty on many such occasions. You know, that's like, I was crazy. Yeah, it's like, should we go one more? I don't know, my feet hurt. Well, one more. And then you're just like kind of half-heartedly jogging after dudes for 20 feet behind me. That's what they look like. They still have Luca Doncher, choose having an awesome offensive season and some of his effort on defense has been as reprehensible as ever. Of course. LeBron, it's even tough to complain about him at age 41. I think it's amazing that he still has productive as he is at this point, but you're asking to lock down people. Good luck. They have probably the top two guys in the league who don't move, who move the least when they don't have the ball. Who do the most with the least in terms of their actual body? It down the ball. It's like, I'm out. I'm just out in the play, I guess. And it's just a bad mix of guys. So the bright side is their record's pretty good, but I think that 20 game sample size is pretty illuminating. I actually liked Rui as a piece for somebody else, not this team. Because I think ultimately, I think, I think LeBron has to be a four at this point. Yeah. To play Rui LeBron in eight and is just nonsensical to me. You could argue Luca could be a four sometimes, but I think Rui, they could turn in as something. There's teams like we talked about the sixers a little bit ago. That's like an interesting sixer to me, like some size, some three point shooting. I like that. But there's some teams that I just think, honestly, he's a pretty interesting, okay, see guy for me. This is kind of one of the problems, though, is that one of the benefits of having Luca on your team is in theory. It opens up room to do a lot of interesting things, positionally. You can mix and match guys, you can play different sorts of skill sets, you can move guys around the board in ways that they might not be able to on other teams. But they're so locked in between when Reeves is out there and healthy and LeBron, but really it's a Luca and LeBron issue in terms of playing those guys together where you don't have that flexibility. And that makes Rui less valuable. It makes Jake Luravia slightly less valuable. Like, you just feel so hamstrung by centering so much of your team around guys who don't open up the room for you to play more interesting combinations of players. You wouldn't consider trading Reeves, right? I mean, I'm not like completely ruling it out. I think Austin Reeves is awesome, but this is maybe a team that needs an awesome player who plays a slightly different position or at least stand to go through the thought experiment of it. Because he's 45 billion a year next year. It's going to be 50. Because now, whatever you pay him, you're locked into Luca and him as your top two expensive guys. Yes. So you have to decide, if these are my top two, am I winning a title, basically? But give me all the best possible people to put with these two guys. Right. I'm fully comfortable paying him at this point. I really have doubts about him as a creator. It's more like, is this the best possible use of all of that cap investment? Is it Austin Reeves and Luca together? Or again, do we need somebody who's giving you a little more defensively? Do you want someone who plays off of Luca? Like Austin, Austin, honestly plays off of Luca well, but plays off of him in a different way. Yeah. Well, to be continued with them, there's a possibility JJ might have to be hospitalized though, if they have to keep playing defense like that. I could just see him all of a sudden be like, I think something's going on. The anger is in potential is high. Oh my god. Box. 18 and 24 somehow. They are 15 and 13 with Yannis and 3 and 11 without him. Part of the issue is they only have two tradable contracts other than Yannis and Turner. One is Kuzma, 22 this year, 20 next year, and then Portis 13 and then 14. And then they have a bunch of small ones. And those are two guys who have been around the trade block. Like how Kuzma has been available at many different points for many different teams at this stage. There, you know, there's always some interest but not overwhelming interest. And Bobby Portis, wildly productive for the role you slot him into, but has so many, like little red flags or asterisks or like trade-offs to his game that make him hard for a team to like really take a swing on. Yeah. So you're looking at Simon's and Portis together. I'm sorry, not Simon's. I have a four teamer with the Kings getting Kuzma, the Celtics getting monk, the Grizzlies getting Simon's and Portis and the Bucks getting Jomerant. You're looking at crazy trades like that where you ultimately end up turning your two trade assets into Jomerant and then crossing your fingers really hard. I don't love it. I don't know. I mean, I don't love the Jai Yannis possibility in general. Maybe the Bucks are desperate enough to do it. This is ultimately their problem, right? They really only have two options and it's you either go hard at basically any decent proposal that is put in front of you to try to make this team better as soon as possible. That would be what investment in this core looks like. The standing pat middle ground option, I don't think really makes a lot of sense for this team at this stage. The other option is you do, you make the hard call on trading Yannis, so something you don't want to do, something that you've been low to even consider to this point. But if you're not really swinging at big trades and possibilities like a Jomerant style deal, even if I don't like Jaws fit specifically, what are you doing? What is the point of going through all this, of turning your cap sheet upside down to fit Miles Turner into it? If you're not willing to make, then further dramatic, the calls you make are only going to have to get bigger and bigger and bolder and bolder to make any of this work. What heat character is Yannis right now? I mean, because I have a hard core answer on this. I would love to hear yours. Who do you have? Who knows girlfriend or wife, whatever she is. She knows she needs to break up with Vincent. Yeah. Doesn't really have the balls to just say it. So she's like just putting on makeup and going on on dates and discreasing herself with Ralph. Yeah, because Vincent will bring up with her. This was my question. Who's the guy she's bringing home from the club basically? Who's that in this metaphor? I know who that is yet. But Yannis, just ask for the trade, just do it. The Bucks fans aren't going to be mad. The Bucks fans want you to basically do it at this point. Just do it. Just go and just ask. It's just hard to imagine their way out. We're talking about John Marant. The Jeremy Grant trade rumors have been out there for a long time. It's like, Jeremy Grant is your big solution. It's not doing anything. I think you might already be buried. It might just be over. It's sad because this Turner thing that they did, jotted out like I was on the record. The game I think would have been fairly tradable with that contract to at least be a big money figure that you could have attached a couple other things to. Sure. They didn't do that. They're not going to trade Turner. I mean, it's not like he was an expiring deal though. No, but it was this year and next that at least you could have been in the conversation to take back a big contract back plus other stuff and you could have patched together or something. Yeah. And they just couldn't do it. They took that off the table. So now it's all you have is Portis and Kuzma. Extremely tough. Yeah, I don't really see a way out for them right now. The way out is to trade down. So they should get to that point. Do it. Hawks. I don't know. Do they know? Hawks, like they don't know. They know what they are. The polls are quietly, like pretty good last 20 games. All right. A couple of good wins. No, I mean, like they, I thought they were going to tank. Sure. They don't, well, they don't do that. Yeah. Well, they're, I'm, I had it there 11 and 9 in their last 20, their 20 and 22 overall. Nobody can remember a single moment from any game they've had. I mean, 20 and 22 overall is the most Chicago Bulls record that we could possibly have. So this is what they do. This is who they are. It's the lot they have chosen for themselves. Well, and then the Hawks, they do the tri-young trade. We think it's later another trade. Davis gets hurt. I guess they could mortgage everything for Janus. I don't know what they would do. They can't play defense. Even me now that Trayong is on, it's still a team that doesn't seem like they can defend properly. And I just, to me, it's like, let's see what we get with the Pelicans pick. Let's see what we get with our, don't they have, what's the other pick they have? They have their own pick back. I think they have two picks. Yeah, who are you missing? Well, the big one is New Orleans. I'm waiting a year. I'm seeing what happens this summer. There's no word. So you're not making the finals. I just kind of wouldn't do anything, right? I mean, I think they get, at this point, everything is so new post-tray that I think they need to stabilize a little bit and figure out who they are. Like, it's been kind of a struggle of late. But really, it's like offensively who are they going to be? What kind of team are they going to settle into? You're right that the defense hasn't been great. And they have the profile of a team that probably needs to win with defense and then have kind of a come and go volatile offense. They just don't really show any signs of that. It's, I think it's hard when you have, you don't have organizers who get everyone into place and you don't have volume drivers on the team really other than Jalen Johnson kind of. It's hard to have a good stable offense when you don't have either of those things. And until they do, I think they're going to fall into the zone because it's like this read and react. We're just going to figure out every possession as it comes expectation. It seems pretty clear. These guys are not up to that. I think they're pretty fun to watch sometimes and then other times you put them on and they're down 75 to 50 in the second quarter and like, what's going on? I would wait a year and figure out what I had. This would be a fun Jared, Benque and team two. They need somebody like that, like, like some sort of normal guard. We're just like, I'm here to set up a video. So I'm just here to make some smart basketball plays, guys. So if you're the Hawks, are you totally ruling out Anthony Davis? I think I am. I think I look at this year and it's like, look, we did a really good job. We made an awesome trade with the Pelicans. We rolled the dice with Porzingus and we knew it was on 100%. It was a smart trade, a smart way for us to use our money. Didn't work out. We thought tray with all these athletes around him. Maybe this would be it. It didn't work out. Let's reboot it this summer. We gave it a whirl. Let's see what we got. We got to get Reese's Shay going. We got to figure out if we can run a playoff offense through Jalen Johnson entirely. And let's kind of look at this and see what we're missing. It's how we look at it. The counter point is if you're already thinking about, let's let's reboot this thing and take another crack at it next year. Wouldn't it couldn't Anthony Davis be a part of that taking another crack at it? Couldn't you reimagine the team around him being a critical part of your defense, giving you a different element inside especially? Counter. I just don't know if he's ever going to be healthy again. Oh, none of us do. It feels like Blake Griffin was in this point with Detroit, right? He'd had a lot of injuries already and he had that one last really good healthy Detroit season. But I don't think any of us felt like this was sustainable in the 2022 range. Now he was a little different. He was a jumper and an athlete. You only have so many things in your legs. He had some knee injuries. Well, ideas of those things too in terms of especially his offensive game. He has a little bit of mid-range to him, but he is a jumper and an athlete too. But some of his injuries were like, he has this eye thing now that he has to wear goggles the rest of his career. He has this hand thing. Right. And then he had some some leg stuff too. I really get nervous about injured big guys who are expensive hitting their, hitting the stage of his career that he's in, which is basically like year, what will be year 15 next year? I mean, he's getting longer than the tooth really fast. And some of it is just you blink in home as a season, you blink him as half the season. And then all of a sudden like next spring he's going to be 34 years old. He's not a young up and coming player by any means or even one who's comfortably in his prime anymore. He's going to have to be, he's going to have to adjust his game for sure. I think for me, if the price is low enough, like if it's just can you help Dallas clear salary and offer them something for their trouble, then maybe that's enough to take a risk on. I'm not throwing Nikhil Alexander Walker into a deal or something like that. Right. If the price is low enough, I still think maybe there's enough reason for them to do it longer term. So you're just saying expiring will give you a pick, but not a really good one. We will take Anthony Davis off your hands. Yes. Because if I'm Dallas, I'm keeping him for another year and actually with the team that I have, I'm probably more excited about that because there's, he gets to Dallas on the right night. There's some interesting stuff going on with them. There's always interesting stuff going on. I think for them, it's the, the extension looming scares the hell out of me. It's like if you are not comfortable paying Anthony Davis on his next deal, then why would you keep him beyond the season? Because like that is going to be thick. That's what you're playing for. That is the expectation of keeping him around, whether it's on an extension or infre agency. And if you're not comfortable doing that, you should trade him now. I know it's hard to do that. I know it's hard to potentially take a return if you're the Mavs that feels like you're selling low on a really good player. I can assure you it can go lower with a guy who has injured this often who's only going to be older by next trade deadline. Like, if you wait, I think it's going to get worse. I couldn't agree more. Well, the Mavs were the next team on our list and you just made the key case. I'm probably hanging around and popping the Mavs and not doing anything either way. And I could probably make the plan team. The plan with Kyrie back and get flag. All I care about is flag. It's fun flag to be in a good situation. Get set being the right kind of games. They're not going to be bad enough to tank ever unless they started shutting guys down right now, which I don't think they're going to do. And if anything Kyrie's coming back and AD might be back in mid March. So I don't know. I'm just, I don't think I'm doing anything. There was a moment a couple of weeks ago where they should trade PJ Washington. They should trade Gaffer. Oh, that's right. They can't trade PJ Washington. PJ is going to be on the team. Yeah. Trade. Clark Thompson. If anyone wants them, right. Marshall is really good. Like I would try to hold on to him as best you can. But Gaffer, yeah, I think like could make sense if they want to trade anybody. He's a player who could appeal. We talked about a lot of teams who could use a little extra center depth. Yeah. Who could use a little extra bounce at that position that could be useful. I don't know. I think I'm just kind of ready for the AD era to be over. And I don't say that coming from a place of like, over. Like he has to leave the country. You know, you know, you know, you know, eject him. But he's going to be an NBA Europe. Just moving him out of the league. Someone needs to cut the ribbon, you know, when Paris comes around. All right. Well, I haven't do it. I just, I like the idea of a Kyrie Irving Anthony Davis version of this team for the last couple of weeks of the season, potentially does not excite me very much. And the idea, especially if that now becomes, you're welcoming that team and being beholden to AD's next contract. I don't, I think the Mavericks have to run from that possibility, basically as fast as they can. I just disagree. I'm looking at it like they're four back from the nine seed. Let's go think of all that we do with that nine seed. Jesus Christ. Like what are we playing? You're telling me it's all about Cooper flag. And now you're like, let's chase the nine seed. I know. I don't know what they do. Well, they're not going to tell Cooper flag to stop playing. And he's no, an additive really good player, right? So you can't really tank. Cooper flag. Really good already. Max Christie's having a really nice season. Like they got stuff going on there. It's just all stuff that should be centered around. I don't mind watching them. I don't mind watching them. I just like every, every decision they make should be what team are we going to be two to three years from now and not who are we going to be by April of this year? Clippers, we don't need to discuss because it feels like they figured it out. So that's why they weren't on the list. They last 15 games, third net rating, third two. And you know, it all depends. Can they just coag can they keep them on the court doing this for the next four months, three months, two months? However long their season is going to be in it. They do that. They're going to be good. There's no trade. They're not going to trade Zubats. They're John Collins is an expiring. I don't know where you're getting back if they wanted to go nuts and get Michael Porter's dinner. The last team I want to talk about quickly is OK, see. And just like is there a move for them? What do they need? A notoriously patient Sam Presty to his anti-dechantment to his championship validation. To his title as best GM Malik. Could they get Murphy? Could they actually do the Godfather offer? Yeah. Could you take Dorit Caruso and Case on Wallace and say, we only need two of these guys. AJ Mitchell can get more minutes and we can add Murphy to this. Could you do it as a team option next year at 18? Caruso is tied down for a couple years. And if you're the Pelicans and you could turn, let's say they get Dorp back. And let's say they get four first round picks. The OKC is a million of them. They get Troy Murphy. Then they take Dorit. They trade into the pistons for Leverto Morford. They get turned Murphy in a seven picks potentially if they got the right OKC package back. And honestly, if I were them, I would think about it. If you're the thunder, I would think about it if I was everybody. If I'm the thunder and I could, I'm basically not losing anything with the defense I have because I still have two of my guys left. But now I'm adding this other piece that gives me insurance and shooting and all these things. Potential plant crunch time and can guard different players. And if I'm the Pelicans, it's like, well, what's the point of having Troy Murphy? We're not going to be good for three, four years. And then he'll probably leave. And then if I'm the pistons and I could get my hands on one of those dudes, that's exactly what they need. So I don't know. I'm not convinced OKC is going to stand pat. Is my point. I think they have a lot of reason to talk themselves into standing pat, right? There's still the best team in the Western Conference. They still have everything at their disposal. I think you could make a pretty strong argument that what they need most is the best healthiest version of Jalen Williams they can get. And he's been pretty up and down all year. And who knows if that's going to happen this year, right? Maybe the handle just being such a state where he's a little more inconsistent that they need him to be. But I think you're right about the market for Troy Murphy, which if you are New Orleans, yeah, they're not going to be good in the near term future to make the most of someone like Murphy. He's also so good and so young that they don't have to trade him. And so what they should be waiting for if you're the Pelicans and to just kind of like set the, you know, the trade machine market, it needs to be an overwhelming offer. It needs to be something that convinces the Pelicans to give up a player who could be a part of their next core if they just decide to keep him around. And this is kind of what it takes. It's like an overwhelming amount of picks that make you stop and say, holy shit. Like maybe we just have to take this windfall from a team like, okay, see even if it means giving the defending champions really like the one kind of knockdown shooter they don't have. Yeah. So 140 cents on the dollar trade. And I think if you go back and you look at the history of these trades and we, you know, there's been, we have such sample size now with all of these type of trades. Like, should you trade first superstar? What about a trade like this? Well, one thing that seems to work over and over again is overpay me with picks for a guy that I probably wasn't going to win the title with anyway, right? And like even the Bane and Bridges trades, if you just go to the fan bases or the front offices of either those teams right now and you're like, would you do that one again? They've like, yep, totally would or even what they got for Durant for the net's got initially. Like, right. I don't know. I just think when you're getting too many assets for a guy, you got to think about it. And it's not like they're trading one of the 10 best guys in the league. This is a really, really good player who might make some all star teams. I don't think he's an all NBA player. No. And if I could turn him into four first round picks and then an asset that I can put for more picks, I'm doing it. I mean, he might end up in that very overqualified role player who never makes an all star team kind of category. That's sort of like where he slots in right now. Yeah. There's a weird, maybe this is just me like overthinking it from O.K.C's perspective, but there's this thing happening where they are so conservative in their decision making. I don't see the thunder making the swing with all of these picks to get another huge high usage star in the door, right? To change the makeup of the team. Like, that feels antithetical to everything that they're about. And so if you're not going to make that move, if you're not going to package all these picks for a traditional star in the most straightforward sense, then what are you going to use it for if not overpaying in a deal like this, right? Convincing someone to get the exact supporting player who you think can help your team. And maybe it's that maybe it's the thunder like, like, like, but don't love Trey Murphy enough to make that kind of Godfather offer. I would understand that. Or maybe it's their, you know, so wary of the financial implications with all of these young guys coming up for new deals that they want to keep the picks to either draft new talent or, you know, flip those players into guys on cheaper contracts who are also very good. But it feels like it has to go somewhere, right? Like you have to invest all this draft capital in one of those two places. And I think the argument for trading for someone like Trey Murphy is pretty compelling even with the thunder already being as good as they are. Yeah, my thing is they have too many picks. So just start there. You can't, if it's a 15 man roster at some point, you have to consolidate the picks or use five to move up 10 spots in a draft or whatever you want to do. Like, at some point, it's just ridiculous. Yeah. And that's just overpaying in a different way, right? Like you're going to end up consolidating all of this into something. And it's just a matter of picking your exact right spot. Yeah. Like, I'm the Pelicans and I can get AJ Mitchell and Dorter, Karuso and picks. And I can turn Dorid into more picks. Like that's the kind of trade out of you thinking of, but I mean, I'm good. There's two teams in the league right now that can overpay for players. Okay, saying San Antonio. There's a player in Murphy who fits perfectly both of those teams. And those are the two teams competing with one another. So I don't know. I just feel like he's a chess piece that is going to really matter over this next two weeks because I can't imagine you can't fear the Pelicans. You can't say he's untouchable. You can't. I'm a huge say it, but it's not true. But I'm a huge fan of his, but he's not untouchable. He's not one of the best 15 players in the league. He's not. So you can't say he's untouchable. Yeah. So like to me, like Tyrese Maxis untouchable. You're calling me. I'm hanging up. Murphy, I'm a trade Murphy. I'm at least listening to what you're thinking. Yes. You're saying he's untouchable, but you're staying on the line. Do you notice how I almost did the old guy Troy Murphy instead of a tray Murphy? Remember Troy Murphy? Floyd, do I? You know, what it's like in place where Troy Murphy was just like an actual somewhat impactful NBA player. What do you want to McKesky word? All right. Rob, what TV show is it recovering? It's recovering industry right now, which is on quite a heater to open the season. And the pit, we love the pit. What? I don't even know sports wise had to describe the first two industry episodes from a heater standpoint. Because it's like a heater, but it's a deranged heater. The Jon Snow episode was deranged. I was riveted. Yes. Riveted. I thought it was so good. I don't really fully understand what happened. But I really loved it. That says great. It is. It's deranged in all the best ways. It's like, it's fucking mean too. Like we need a little bit of that edge in the TV landscape right now. So I'm thrilled to have it back. Well, as you know, I'm rewatching Thrones and the sauna. Talk about your mean shows. That's about as mean as a show we've ever had. Anyway, all right. Rob Mahoney. Good times. Great to see you. We can watch and listen to on the ringer NBA show as well as the prestige TV. Talk to you soon. Thanks Bill. Welcome to we kept the receipts presented by tax act where we look back at our predictions and figure out who deserves a victory lap and who is completely off base. Tax act helps you with actual receipts like the kind that you can use for tax deductions or credits and the ones that help you get your maximum refund every tax season. So I have two from the last year that would be fun for this one good one, one bad one. The good one. I went on Zach Loas podcast over the summer and we were picking our 2028 Olympic team. And my dark horse for 12 spot was conknipple because I thought by the time we got to 28, the shooting, the way he moves without the ball, like they're going to need somebody like that. And I picked him to make that team. Even though I didn't put in NBA game yet, that was great. The bad one was I think they're in the college football playoff last year. I made fun of some game management from Kurt Signetti, the Indiana coach. And I was talking about, oh, Belichick can't coach college. Is this guy again? And what happens? Belichick sucked as a college coach and and a significant 16 and a one national title. Tough fun. We kept the receipts. That was presented by tax act. This tax season make your max refund. The one prediction that actually pays off is a tax act to learn more conditions apply. The tax act dot com for details. All right. Late morning Pacific time. The legend is here. The man dog himself, Chris Russo. I wanted to talk big picture quarterback all time stuff. And I used to love one spot of time listening to you. You were always like in the all time context, which is framed a lot of how I think about this stuff too. And I was talking to Sal on Sunday about Josh Allen. How this is now becoming a career unlike any quarterback career that we've had. Where you can make a case. He's a top 10 all time guy, but he's never made a Super Bowl. And he's had all this terrible playoff losses. And where does he fit into context? So you're you're a decade older than me. You've seen you remember the stopback Bradshaw. You even go back to the 60s. A tiny bit. Where did we're seeing the context of all the guys? Let's start there. And then I want to dive into the history thing. And great to be on the bill. Yeah, you can't put him in top 10. That you can't do. Not yet. You know, I think it depends how far you want to go back. I mean, Don Shuler once said, you know, if you're going to rank these quarterbacks, don't forget about old auto, meaning auto, Graham, you know, a play in 10 straight championship games. And we never pulled Brown, never want to title in Cleveland after Graham retired. Graham retired after the 55 season and Brown never won another one. Yeah. Because he wasn't a coach of the Browns in 64. They fired him. Modell did and brought Blanton Kairin. And of course, the quarterback was Frank Ryan, not at all time. Great. But if you go back to that level, you got to put Graham in. If you want to go back to the modern day quarterback, that usually starts, you know, guy of course, his own plays and football is a little shaped like it is today. That's usually starts with the United. Yeah. And if you don't even want to start United, that's too far. Well, then maybe it go, you know, since the merger, I've heard people say, well, that started since 1970. So it depends on the year that you want to begin at. But if you look at the guys, I mean, you know, it's going to be Brady. It's going to be Montana. You're going to, you know, you've got probably put you in Addison here. If you want to start with his era, quote unquote, you know, obviously I put my homes in. He's one, two super balls. So I'm going to that's four right there. And so before you even begin, that is four. And you got those next six or seven slots, you know, meaning, uh, storeback, one, two titles. So you know, stuff up there. Okay. No, storebacks up there. He's an old time great. Lee Corso once told me and he was at Maryland as an assistant coach and played against United's and when he was at Florida State, United States, Louisville said that storeback was the best college player ever saw. Wow. So you got to keep down on mine too. And obviously storeback, one to two titles. He got floored by the concussion. So he'd be titled early, but I love him. You know, certainly, um, no L way, you got to consider L way. You got to also figure out what you're going to do with the championships bill. Here's that up to you. Requisite. If it is a prerequisite, well, you got to win a Super Bowl. Well, if that's the case, then you know, you're in a tricky spot with Marino. We lose Marino. I knew it. Marino, he has to be in the top 10 for me. So you're going to do that with the titles that helps Allen, you know, in the long picture. But you know, those next five or six after the big four would be Peyton would be, you know, L way would be Marino would be Bradshaw one four championships. He's very underrated. Great quarterback. So you haven't mentioned Rogers yet. And you haven't mentioned Rogers yet. So he's only one to one. Not great in the playoff games, but him. So that group after the four, which to me, you can't go anywhere with you can't go. And I'm leaving grandma. Because that's too far back for your purposes. So we're going to leave grants out a grand out. So if you look at it from a home's Brady Montana, United's those four, those next six slots, if you're just going to narrow it down to a top 10 is dicey because you got manning is one L way to store back three Bradshaw four Marino five Rogers six. You got a lot of guys here that you that you got to put in the equation. And sooner or later you're going to, you know, I'm trying to think there's a couple. There's a couple more. Well, there's two more. You got far v didn't mention. Yeah, I wouldn't put far up in there to be turnovers. And who's the other one too many far fell apart really in the 2000s. And then some people have Steve Young. I don't think he. I don't think he was good for long enough to put him in the and I love and I love fouls, but I can't put fouls in it. He's three and four and a close. So his stats are hilarious because that error was like you'd throw for 30 to these and 28 picks and stuff like that. But and he and he played for the right coach, Corielle and anything else. But the problem with fouls is he wasn't great in the post season. He's had a couple of bad losses. So he can't put him in a top 10. He's a whole of famer, but he can't put him in a top 10. So you really have to think about what your criteria is for the top 10. You want to see a lot of playoff wins. Would you like to see a Super Bowl or two? Would you like to see some heroic performances in if the team loses, which Alan of course has got a couple of those couple of games against my homes. So it depends on how you want to grade it. If you get by the five or six guys, I think L.A. He's a guy that you got to put somewhere in that one to six level. You know, one to Super Bowl. He was in five Super Bowls. One to has got the heroic drive. Yeah. John Wayne, fun to watch. I think you got to put L.A. Probably in that five, six category too. Well, you think like probably the most talented, like if you're just talking about being able to move around and to the gun that he had combined with the league game stuff, you could argue that he might have been the best one and just was probably the worst situation of any of the guys from the last 40 years. Quite possibly. He had a couple of bad Super Bowls. And I tell you, I still think in a layoff at that, that you have to take serves thing, what are you going to do with bar star? Right. Now I didn't want to play off Super Bowl MVP and MVP in 1966 for the league. And MVP and the league in 1966 had a great year to four touchdowns in the NFC championship came against Dallas, killed the Chiefs in a very pressure pack game and led the most heroic drive in the history of the NFL. And Ray Scott told me at Lambal, it's the greatest mind, the longtime Packard broadcaster, it's the greatest mind over a matter of drive in the history of the NFL. Now is the ice bowl when he went 68 yards in the last 438 of the game, after nine straight three in outs in 59 degree below zero temperatures with a windshield factor you can't believe on the ice in Lambal and he called all the own place. See this is why I wanted to have you on because I knew you'd need barely any prep and you'd be like AI. You might be AI, it's possible. I don't know if you have an AI engine in your brain. The story gets stars underrated because you know, other way we remember it's a bombardy. They think about all the, you know, it's like Brad show too. Brad Shulin and star in a lot of ways, Bill are very underrated historically because they played with so many whole of famous, you know, starwarts and swan and Mike Webster and Franco and then of course the guys on defense and star who's got, you know, warning in Taylor and two or three offensive lineman and Nitsky and and Willie Davis and then goes on obviously Willie Wood and her badly. They got a man or a famous. He almost forget about the quarterback. L.A. does have any other famous. Randy Gratt is sure. You know, any other famous. Well, think about the memory of offense that he was like one of the first we got to get this guy some help guys in the matter and talk radio era. So L.A. gets looked at higher because there's not a lot of great players around him. All right. Well, can we can we do this exercise differently? You laid out all the cases and the resume. Let's go. I test them. I test. I think my home's myself. He's only had one bad half in the history of his postseason plan. He's been in main games. Yeah. He's fought in the two Super Bowl losses as offense. The line was a mess. He runs tremendously. He's one of three Super Bowls and been the five already. It's a very tricky year and now with the power in everything else. Yeah. I think from my mind, my home's is the best quarterback I've ever seen. Most talented. You've ever seen. I know. I know Brady. Now Montana for Super Bowl 11 touchdown pass is not one interception. So you got to keep it all. That's pretty damn good. Four and only Super Bowl 11 TD is not one pick. But for my money, where just and the running abilities that I'll have to do with it. He is a great runner. He's a tremendous competitor. He now you might disagree. But he's the best quarterback I've ever seen. And I would take him over anybody. And that's saying a lot with Brady and with Montana and people like that. I would take my home's one myself. So the problem and we're seeing this now in basketball because we're in the steroids era with basketball stats now. You just have everyone's stats are 20% higher than they should be because there's more shots, more possessions, three pointer. Three points. You just people are going up and down and LeBron is averaging the same stats that he had when he was in Miami. You know, at the peak of his career because the sports totally different now. And there's no way he's the same plurie was 12 years ago. So I look back at like I look at the stuff L way and Marino did back when you could hit the shit out of quarterbacks. When if you scrambled or if there was no sliding back then, if you scrambled, you were going to take a hit. If you're going to try to stay in bounds and lay one more in, they're going to knock your head off not to mention they could hit you after you through the pass. They could hit your receivers over the middle. I think it's really hard to like could L way do what my homes did if you just took them in a time machine to move them 40 years. That's that feel like he could. Yeah, absolutely. And Marino, the knock on Marino is he had a couple of really bad playoff games lost the playoff game, the standhumpers with the chargers lost 31 14 of the Patriots in 1985. Home games, which the fish, it's a bad one. That's a bad loss. I mean, you know, you know, Marino, young in your career and you got and you got them coming in. I said, you're after they got the soup, and you got the Patriots coming in as a wild 14, you got a home game. You have to beat the bears in a regular season. I was the only lost to bears at 85 and he played badly in the game. The 95, the 95 chargers won. They're up 15 and it's like, it's Marty shot and hammer. Marty shot and hammer was usually the one that was blowing the playoff games and it actually flipped it and they came back and that was probably Marino's last chance. I just know how it made me feel as a fan where you go and against them. And you're like, oh my God, this guy's going to kill us. Absolutely right. You know, you always were worried about him. He had that bad loss to Buffalo. When Buffalo that year, he'd be used in in a great comeback and then they went to Miami and won the championship game in Miami. One great neck and L.A. I can't think of a championship game. Wait, or a playoff game where he was bad in the game. Superbowl's yes. Superbowl's yes. He, you know, he played, he played, he got ambushed by Washington. He was terrible against San Francisco. Now listen, they were going to beat him anyway, but he was bad in the game. That's the thing he probably won against the couple of the greatest teams in the history of the sport. That's fair too. And the Giants in 86 were a great team too. Yeah. So you got to give him a little break. See, the thing about L.A. that you like, Bill, and you, you're on top of this. You're doing a good job here. Think about the thing about L.A. You like when he lost the three Superbowls, they were by far the inferior team. Yeah. Yeah. Now I know Doug Williams beat him, but they scored 35 points in a second quarter. That's not always full. Well, in the case for OAS, like name, how about this? Just randomly named the offensive player as he was with on the first 10 years of his career. Most people would probably get like three of them. Really? No, maybe they're making a two mark, Ricky, the two mark Jackson, Sammy Winder. There's not a lot of guys. 100%. But then it all circles back and all of a sudden he's playing with McCaffrey, Rod Smith, Torell Davis. So I still think pound for pound just those two years is in the running for best running back at Ever saw. Shannon Sharp. He's in there too. Like it's just all the sudden they were like a loader. Yeah. Yeah. And he had Johnny Han too, you know, who was the better coach than Dan Rees? Yeah, and it was a different, it was a different stage of his career. And I think he had taken a lot of hits. That's why it's really hard to think about L.A. I'm sorry, Josh Allen. He's definitely a one-on-one with how he plays and how the physicality and the size that he has and all the different things he can do. So it's almost like you have to think about him in a basketball context where he's like the basketball player who can do everything. And yet something's happening in these playoff games. I think this, you know, you always try not to overreact. You're on a show. It's the first take on Wednesdays where one of the goals is to come in hot with an angle. I don't think it's possible to overreact after that last game because he, I thought he was the reason they lost. And this season parted for them in these playoffs and there's just no excuse for it. So now I don't know where to place them. Well, I disagree with you on the idea and I'll do this tomorrow too. To me, he left the field and they're up 27, 23 and on 3rd and 11 with 238 to go, that defense allowed freaking nicks to throw a 26-sharp completion of Sutton. It's fair. Well, I could have thrown a boy who was so wide open. Right. If they make a stop there, Denver Punts and one first down wins the game. All right, but can I. And I deep up flow had the ball back. All they have to, they had a chance to score and he overthrew Knox to win the game, basically. But he also, if, if Harderman makes a catch, which he should have made, bad throw, he's got to, he ran a bad route, I guess. Yeah, he got to catch me. He had two hands on the ball. And if cooks comes up with the ball, which he should have, they would, they win the game. Well, so the Buffalo fans who are defending out and are like, look at the supporting cast. He's only playing with a couple pro-Bowell caliber guys that the front office let him down. I do think this is part of the sport now. If you're paying 55, 60 million a year for your quarterback, you're going to lose stuff in other spots. This is what happened to Brady in the 2010s, right? At some point, and Brady was even taking a little bit less than the highest part, but at some point, you have to pick and choose. You can't have, it's not like the 90s with the Cowboys where you could just be like, we need the end Sanders. It's got him and you just get him. So you're going to be missing stuff all over the place. And for them, it's like, all right, if we give him more weapons, now I can't stop anybody on defense or maybe now I can't block, you know, so you're always giving up something. So I don't know if that flies for me. No, no, listen, I can't absorb them. The play before the half was bad. All right, he had to secure the area, hit a ground, we threw a ground ball to him. That could have been a touchdown. You mentioned the knocks play. I cannot absorb him on something. He wasn't great in the games. We're working jerky. You are a thousand percent correct. But the defense hooks fumble at seven three, a huge playing a game. Yeah. If the interception, he fumbles there at the 32 yard line, that's a terrible fumble. You know, can, can cooks make the, can he come down with the ball? Can he come down with the ball? Can he do that? Can he take it? And not take it and not get it, take it away. Can heart him in? I don't know enough about the actual routes, but everybody seems to think that he didn't cut it left enough and he went up field instead of going to the sideline. But even if you say that, he still should have caught the damn thing. Right. He catches the ball there. Buffalo's got a first down at the Denver 43 and overtime. They're going to win the game. Right. They are going to win the game. And I'm not even going to talk about the overtime defense with the two pass interference kind of with all those out. Third and 11. If next, can I make sure they don't get a first down on that plane? Is it possible that maybe you get a five yard catch instead of a 26 short catch? Right. And not put, and not put him in a tough spot. Now again, if your point is greatness on the Brady level means that you've got to do everything in your power to overcome the team's weaknesses. You have to be the guiding light when everybody else is kind of form back whether it's a receiver job in the past, whether it's a fumble by a running back, whether it's a big for the family to make a play with all that. You got to figure out a way to win the game. That's what you're getting paid 50. If that is Bill Simmons's argument about Josh Allen, I cannot argue. But I would also say he's up 27, 23, 23, 38 to go in the game on third and 11. I do to think I wasn't you were thinking about the fumble before the end of the half at that point in the game at 27, 23, 23, 28 to go. I was not thinking about the fumble. Guys, make a stop. Peyton's going to punt. He's got three time outs and he's got obviously his two minute warning. He's not going for a fourth and 11. He's going to punt. Hope his defense can make a stop. Get the ball back and do his thing. I don't think he's going for an fourth and 11 and the defense couldn't make a play. So, but I think it's planned to go all the way around. With the loss of the Buffalo. That was an underrated piece of the Brady Super Bowls in New England. There's a couple ones where if they don't get a stop for him to get him the ball back, they lose the game, right? Atlanta, Atlanta, who seems like they won the game with the Julio Jones catch. The game's over at that point. This is after the past defense got the ball back with high tower, all that stuff. But then they somehow made the Falcons go ten yards backwards so they couldn't get the full vote. I know. Hope he penalties. They came through for Brady in a way that Buffalo's defense never did. That's a very good point. And then the Seattle one was the other one. They're down ten. Brady scores two touchdown drives, but they also stopped Seattle to get the ball back. And if they don't, they don't win that one either. And that's super balls. How about a couple of times in the playoffs? Brady got a break of all time. And Troy Brown closed that fumble in the San Diego game. Right. Well, when they threw the intercept, the four it offsides was probably the biggest break. There's another one. You know, four it was offsides, which was an interception in the game. So a lot of this sometimes has happened since. And for whatever the reason, the bills themselves, the team, the franchise, it's almost like their curse. I know. Nobody has had the kind of losses that they have had since 1990 in big spot, or even going back here before Cincinnati when they beat them. They've had incredible losses that no one would miss. Feel go. The other three in the Super Bowl, music city barricades, my home two or three times. I mean, they've had so many bad ones. And this is one that is in line with the bill's history. There is a black cloud over that franchise. Minnesota has not had as many of these chances as Buffalo's had. No, they had to Gary Anderson, Miss Fulgo against Atlanta when they were 15 and one, but they haven't as meant they haven't and every time they play in the Super Bowl, they got killed. I mean, Buffalo should have beaten the giants. I mean, so for me, it's incredible that this franchise just can't get out of its own way when the money and everything is in the middle of the table. And Allen is now a part of that because he can't win these games either. Yeah. And you and I have both been in that position as fans because I was certainly there at the Red Sox. Even like wrote column after column and books about it about what it was like to just feel like you're just cursed with your team. Do you want to pass this team down to your kids to should you just get out? Should you just have a sports event? You were you were in a similar spot with the giants there for a while where it's like, is this going to happen in my lifetime? And that what's happened in the bills, I think, is as dark as anything that's happened since the Red Sox. I think I still feel like the Red Sox for going 86 years and cold weather in New England and all the history of coming up close and falling short. And it just was in our DNA. And it feels like it's in the DNA now for the Buffalo fans. I think there's some now. Remember what the Red Sox who had to sell to someone all those championships? True. You know, you can clinical them. You also had the Patriots who won an old one. Bobby or we had a couple cops. Yeah, do you know, Buffalo does have any other teams? This is this. Yeah. They don't have any other teams. This ball team, the Sabers are right, but they have one of Stanley Cup. They've been close, but they have one. And they have the NBA team now after the, you know, the Braves left to San Diego. Right. So from that standpoint, this is this. This is their franchise. Yeah, that's at least in a place like Boston, you know, you have some other franchises. You and the huge South like fan, they got all those. You got how many champions? It's a 20. I don't know how many. How many got? Well, even after we lost, 18, I think. 18. How that we have like when we had, we lost the Bears, the 45 to 10 game, whatever that, the 46 to 10, and then we had a cocaine scandal two days later. But we immediately moved to the 86 Celtics and then Roger Clembrough. And we had at least other stuff talked about. You're right. So the, I think Buffalo is number one. It's weird because the Browns fans have to be heard from as well. They at least had the LeBron Cavs thing, but in a way, it's almost worse to have this many where you come close and you have all these sort of losses. The Browns have just been a relevant and not mattered, which in just futile, which is almost almost easy. And we never Alan's going to be in Buffalo for a while. They're going to have a few more of these opportunities and they made those more of them because he's still young enough. That stadium will get Maloo juice next year. You know, they, they, they made, they made McDermott the spade scapegoat, but you know, they get somebody else in there. They're going to be a competitive team. I mean, it's not like the bills, the division stinks. The jet stink, Miami stinks. You know, the Patriots now they're going to have to deal with, but you, you get the idea. The bills are going to be a blowoff team for the next five, six years when you have a quarterback this good. Now, now where you and I want to rank him is a different argument. But when you have a quarterback, he's a whole family. When you have a quarterback this good, you're going to be good every year in a NFL. There's very rare where you have a great quarterback where you have, you know, you're going to be bad. You know, once in a while, my home's team gets hurt injuries. It doesn't click for you. You might go six and 11, but most of the time when your quarterback is this good, you're a playoff team year after year after year, which means that he still has a chance to redeem himself when that championship. And we said there's a lot about Manning for a long period of time in his career. Eight years. Before he finally won that one against the Bears. So he lost a lot of brutal games before he beat the Bears and then one or the other one never Denver against Carolyn. Yeah. Manning's playoff history is pretty checkered. He had a lot of like as big favorites, blowing games and choke jobs at home. And very sure. But then that, you know, you win one Super Bowl. That stuff washes away. Who's your number one? This guy was great, but something was missing when it really mattered, actually in any sport. That's a good in any sport. Any sport you can pick baseball football, basketball hockey, just somebody that had everything and it couldn't get there. I'm out of fan of his, but Horton is a perfect example. I mean, Horton is terrible in a big game. He's going to look at his games and elimination games. Yeah. I mean, I know I used to talk to Van Gundy about this all the time. He thought he was better than Joey West. No, he's not. It's better than Joey West. Now he stuck with him. His punishment was to have to coach him. And how he's got to do it. Horton, I would never trust Horton in a big game. You can say that in the game seven last year. He wouldn't even look at the rim. Horton was. How about a game seven when he was with Philadelphia against the Celtics that one year in game seven, he was tell. There's so many examples of Horton and he's a whole of fame. Everybody thinks he's an all time great. Because Carmillon was a legitimate one. Carmillon, you could see it on his face as the game got bigger and bigger. And he just, and people now we live in this stats era where you could go back 50 years later and be like, whoa, are we sure he wasn't better than Tim Duncan? It's like, no, we're sure he wasn't. He know you had a much rather had to dunk and trust me. We were there. He did not feel the way you knew Stockton was. He's gutty was going to figure out a way to beat you was going to over achieve with his talent. Malone, I think at times now he had to go up against Jordan. But I think at times the moment became a little too big for him. You could feel it. I do think I think there's, and I think you definitely can make the case for wilt. Yes. I think you were, you were barely there for will, but you got to see some of it. A little bit. It was when you were getting into sports. But I mean, will all the, all the, everything written said, well, it was the number one guy like this that something would happen to him in these games. Well, he did win the two championships and he did anchor two teams that were the two greatest arguably teams of all time that 60, 16. Yeah. With that beat the Celtics finally. And then of course, the 71 72 Lakers that won 33 in a row. 33 Gameways. So you can argue that, but he, you know, he couldn't make his free throws, took himself out of game seven against Russell in his last game. Yeah. Looked around to Eurena before Willis tree, game seven at the guard. Hey, is Willis playing tonight? Geez. Well, you will. Chambon, who gives a crap if he's playing? Right. He's got. He's got a number eight. You'll be fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good. You know, as Havo check once told me in a Rollins college dinner where he was at and I was the MC. Wow. We never that game. Seven. The following year when Philly played the Celtics and he were trying to go back to the back. Philly was up three games the one that year and in game seven in Philadelphia, Will did not take any shots essentially in a second half because he was in foul trouble and he didn't want to get cool for an opportunity. Right. Yeah, that dumb streak about he never wanted to foul out of a game. He never, he never filed out of the game. Yeah. And he never wanted to be in a situation where he filed out of the game. So he got very passive and Boston beat him in game seven when he were down three one in that series. The Celtics have lost the sixers. You know, so you really don't know they lost the sixers in 66 67 and then in 67 68 Philly's up three one. Right. And Will goes quiet at the end of game seven against Russell doesn't want to shoot the ball. So I think that Will has got a little bit of that aspect to him where in a big moment life on the line to get a little nervous. You get a little nervous. I'm going to make you laugh. Aaron Judge. Just because he helped himself. He helped himself last year in that Toronto game. No one he was down. He helped himself. There's a little that can judge. Yeah. I was going to say I thought Clemens. I thought Clemens had it in him for a while. I thought especially in the red socks. I thought in the 90s. I think let me go sideways on him a little bit. Clemens had some big moments later on. He won a championship Yankees. So a couple of championship Yankees. Yeah. He said it now. He was on a great Yankees teams, but he 99 and 2000. So I give Clemens, but I think there's some truth to that. I tell you, though, the one guy that you're going to think I'm crazy that I say this all the time and immediately loves him that is if you look at him in the postseason, he's atrocious. And that's Clayton Kurshaw. Well, I mean, I think the Dodger fans, I was at the 18th inning game when he had to come in. This year, all out the world series game. He was lucky that feed too. Pitch. He swung at it. That was ball four. Well, that's the thing. He came in and it was it was a legendary game even before it went 18 and he brought, they brought him in and you could feel it in the stands. The Dodger fans are like, no, no, please, no, no, no. We don't need another one to his legacy here. Please. Four, four, four, four, five ERA in a postseason and a two four ERA in a regular season. I don't like to talk about that with Kurshaw, but he, he's a little overrated in these big games. Right. A lot of times you don't want any, any how, a lot of terrible moments. That's just reality. And if people don't like you to say that because everybody loves Kurshaw, that is fact. That's one of the things I really miss about whatever baseball has turned into is these start. You had one with bomb gardener, the, the starters that are just like outbet my life. This guy's coming through tonight because now nobody's allowed it. That was why the Yamamoto thing was so fun. The guy was like, wait, do we need, do you need me again? I'll come back. Let me, let me save another game for you guys, but that was so old school because that's what we grew up with. That grew up with Jack Morris just going tan in the game seven. You know, and these guys were like, give them the back. I got you. And that's why I killed school ball all the time. Game five in Seattle. Yeah. Six innings, 98, 99 pitches. He took himself out of the game with a one nothing lead. Finnegan comes in, gives up a one and a seventh inning and then they lose the game in a 14th inning and the tiger season is over. I understand he's a free agent and you know, Boris who knows he tells the hey, your money is more important in game five of an A O D S and you're the best pitcher in baseball and it's one nothing tigers in a six inning, seven inning, staying again, 98 pitches, staying again and school ball took an AJ Henson taking out school ball took himself out. You think Bob Gibson would have done that. How about Randy Johnson? You think smokes shilling? How about Randy Johnson? You think Randy Johnson who pitched many back to back games in a postseason. You think he's taking himself out of about time, Seaver. You think Tom Seaver and that spot's taking him. Hey, going to go Hodges, put somebody else in that really, really ball that really we had that with Clemens game six 86. And he got taken out and they said he had a blister and it was yeah, we never know who is right. And then John McNamara died. But each guy had a different version of the story. All I know is he came out of the game. I did. And then of course McNamara McNamara who is grave said Clemens asked out and Clemens says not true. So who knows? But yes, that is that's a famous one. That's a good job, though. That's a famous game six. Do you ever think about if a game had swung when you really cared about the sports sports the most when you were a kid? If a game had swung, would you be different as a person as a personality? Like I was feeling like if the Red Sox had won game six 86, I just might be a fundamentally a different person. I don't even know if I could do this. Do you have one of those where you're like wow, yeah, I'm out of the sliding doors for me in life. I had to very good one. I think it's for I think if star doesn't sneak and get to get to touchdown in 67, I was a pack of fan young kid Lovellambardi. Yeah, I think if they got stopped in that situation, I wouldn't have had the same love party and star on all those packer teams. I think that's one that went in my positive direction, not the other day. Yeah, did the Giants have a bad one? Yeah, 93 when they were 100, you're an adult at that point, though. Yeah, I'm an adult. 93 when they went 103 and 59 and the graves went 104 and 58. The last great pennant race, we never 94, they did, they had no season and 95, they came back with Wildcourt. Yeah. 93 was the last great American pennant race and the Giants who blew an 8 1 1 2 half game lead, 115 of their last 17 to get even if they blew an 8 1 2 half game lead, took a three and a half, fell three and a half back and got the game and tied last day of the season in game 162. And we lost 13 to one of the Dodgers at Dodger Stadium and the Bravespeak Colorado to win the pennant. That one, that one really pained me. Well, that was the 78 Red Sox blow on the 14 game lead. That's another good one. That's another good one. And then losing anyway. Very similar. And the Red Sox 199 at year and a Yankees 100. So it was the first to 100 and that's still based on the regular season. Yeah. And the fact they battled from April 1st, that is still the most significant game I've ever seen. Red Sox Yankees, Fenway 78. It was very much like the regular year. Red Sox lead first half of the year to nothing through 6 and hits the home run. Fell behind by Moore and then Claude and battled and scratched and then of course, he has pops up a 2 1 and the 9th of a sausage and I lose the game 5 4. So that to me, Paneu and the sun stabbing. I believe a bouncing ball gets it. That's Lynn hit it down there. That game has got so much climate so it Yam Kippur. Yeah. Oh yeah, we didn't have school that day. That was Yam Kippur early October of 78, 5 4 Yankees. It was a Monday, no school. And the Yankees won a championship that year. They beat the Royals and they beat the Dodgers. That game, those innings were the world series, those 2 3 innings. That was one of the great games of the season. You have to go to prepare to do your show soon. I had one next question for you and then we can do this whenever I'll come on your show whenever you want. Nix are 2 in 9 and their last 11. Yeah. This was a conference that had the season parted. Halbert and Zout, Tatum's out. They clearly had their built to win this year and they're going backwards and they look miserable together. So what's going on? Yeah, well, number one, does anybody give a clap about that stupid champion's cup? Whatever they called it. And then Nix and Nix beat the spurs. And then the argument was should we put a banner up? Really? We're going to do something as dumb as that for a regular season tournament that nobody cares about. And now the next since that moment in whenever it was December have been absolutely awful. And I was one that thought Tibido got a terrible deal. Dolan just woke up one day and decided he didn't want Tibido coaching him coaching his team. And Leon Rose got stuck and he didn't have a list and that's why he went to the Jason kids of the world because he didn't have a list. He was not prepared for it. He was scrambling. And so he got his sixth choice in Mike Brown. And I'm not not going to Mike Brown. But the bottom line is Tibido did not deserve this. And Nix lost last night, which I did not see as I was watching the college game. But the Nick lost last night to Dallas when they're down 28 at the half to a Maverick team that's got nobody, you know, no Davis, no Kyrie Irving or 18 year old kid in flag. PJ Washington's out in Sohers Gafford and the Nix lose by 28 points to the Dallas Mavericks and everybody played. I mean, you got to be kidding. After they've been playing poorly, that's his battle loss. Tibido, not out of loss like that, whether they gave up 75 points in the first, it's 7548. I mean, I mean, that's ridiculous. And I'm not blaming Mike Brown, but this to me, the Dolan deserves this. He's the one who wanted Tibido out. He couldn't stand looking at him anymore. Tibido got a terrible deal. Wasn't a, he didn't, they got people in the end. Indianity was better than Nix. And how hurt made that incredible shot to force the first game one over time when it bounced nine million feet in the air. And somehow went in and Nix lost the game and O.T. changed the whole series. I mean, I really feel, you know, that was a move that was just not fair and unnecessary. And again, I'm not trying to kill Mike Brown, but the Nix deserve what they get. And the fact that the Celtics without Tatum have been nisk good, give that head coach a lot of credit and Jalen Brown. That is a tremendous job. This is a year you could completely write off a few Celtics, man. You know what? We've had a good one. I did it in the first week. I was like, let's, we got a trade Derek White. This is going to be a bad season. Let's keep it back. And as it turns out, what are they about 15 games? Over 500, 2015, there's second, second in net rating. They're 26 and 16. They're in the two seed. And Tatum, he had a very conspicuous workout yesterday. He's definitely coming back soon. I'm adding that to this. It's everything they have going. They're not going to make a trade dead line move. I think he's the dead line move. But the trade table, they're really good though. I just like, I got to shout them out. That's a really, that's a whole school of tough fast pistons team. I got a CDTWRT make baskets. Last six minutes of a playoff game in the close spot. Yeah. I got to see them yesterday. Say, yeah, I got to see them make some baskets though. I in a, we in games on the line, in the post season, something they could not do last year against the next. Brunson made the baskets and they didn't have anybody. I got to see them make baskets in that kind of spot. But I agree with you. Off the physical, hunting ham is a very good player. They take the personality of Bikers to have and they're hungry. Detroit, it means something to Detroit to finish it the best record. They're hungry. They're hungry. There's a physicality and aggressiveness to them. That's going to be great in the playoffs. And actually, honestly, bad for the Knicks because, and all the Knicks fans, I know, are really turning on towns now. They're like, this is the guy I was terrified. I was terrified we were going to get this version of this guy and now we're seeing him. All right. You're going to read a lot about Yannis now because the Knicks are going to be desperate. And you're going to read the books of bad. And I know Yannis said he wants to stay there and Doc Rivers is said he's going nowhere. But you're going to hear whether it's true or not by the deadline, you're going to hear a lot of Yannis to the next stuff, whether the Knicks could ever pull off a trade like that. You can hear a lot of that. Well, the problem is they traded all of their first run picks for the free to 53rd best guy in the league. I don't know if they would do that one over again. And Michael Bridges. I love Bridges. That's fine. But they basically, that was their Yannis chance and they traded it for Bridges. That was a terrible trade by those. That was a terrible trade. All right. Bridges is a decent player, but you can't give a five drip picks for a decent player. You got to give a five drip picks for a whole of Famer and he's not a whole thing. The problem is you do a trade like that. And I didn't mind the trade, but it was like, this is you have no outs now. This is your team. You do this. You do this. You're stuck with this. And it does work. And the next might be one of those teams that will be a 50 win team for the next three, four years, but always never on that top shelf. You know, it's sort of be a top four top five team, which is purgatory. You got to get past the top four top five. Getting that last jump, Bill, as you know, from, you know, putty decent to pretty good. And then a championship level with the same group. That is very, a Portland never did it with Adelman. That is a very, very, and they never, you know, they had duck worth and they had Terry Porter and, you know, they never, they never were able to pull that off. That is how about the sons and the 2000s? They had seven years there. Just could never could never get over. Yeah. They did lose. They did lose to the bulls that one year, you know, so you get a little break there. Yeah. But I'd be a little worried about the next historic. I'd be a little worried about the next. And I tell you right now, Dolan deserves it after he did the tip it off. He deserves it to undo a chief. He fired to but all thinking he was going to get to the NBA final. What? And you'll do that. I was he did not deserve that decision. And because of that, I've been down on the next. I thought bad for him. The great Chris Russo, you can hear him on Mad Dog Radio and serious. Say hi to, uh, are you doing first take tomorrow? Yes, I am. I will say hi to Steven. Please say hi to my gosh, Shraggs. Shraggar. Yeah. He's a, yes. Of course, he will. He's the other one. I think we're like, we're like his two surrogate media fathers. I know he's a big, he loves you too. Yeah, he's a big fan. I know he grew up with us. He grew up with us. All right. Let me know a couple of weeks ago with KELOLMAN. You did a great job. I saw that. Oh, thank you. Well, let me know if you need me on the show. I'm here for you. I will. I'll be all right. I'll keep in touch. Thank you, Chris. You got. All right. Last but not least, a year one ringer guy, Danny Kelly. You can find him in the ringer fantasy football show as well as on. Our, on our website, the ringer.com as well. He's also a diehard Seahawks fan. I made a horrible error in Sunday's podcast. I just want to talk it out. I, yeah, I feel like I've been in a really good spot with the Seattle sports fan bases. Sunday night doing a live pod of Netflix. A lot of stuff going coming up bears, Rams heads, heads spinning, all these different directions. And we're talking about Super matchups. And I say the Seahawks never won a Super Bowl. Right. Right. You could say I'm a mold. I would go with brain fart because I'm going to say I know the Seahawks won a Super Bowl. I was writing for Grant Lynn at the time. I was doing podcasts and writing about that Super Bowl year. I thoroughly enjoyed watching them kick-pate manning's ass. And if I had thought about it for a split second, I would remember they won. But I think I brain farted and mixed them up with the Mariners. So I'm here to ask for forgiveness. Well, I appreciate it. I'm not mad. If I was mad, I would say something like the Seahawks defense, which could be counted among the best of all time, shut down the best offense. The NFL has ever seen that literal highest scoring offense and paid manning. Most touchdown passes in a season. And the Seahawks defense completely shut them down in the Super Bowl. That's why I would say if I was mad, but I'm not mad. I understand. I also think I won money on that game. I don't know. How'd you forget that? Because that would have been the Seahawks would have beaten paid manning and then Tom Brady and back to back Super Bowl. Of course, that didn't happen. But yeah, that's that's what the Seahawks. I got a lot of texts about this. I know my state of response for this stuff is it is hard to host a pod. You're not going to bat a thousand. It's unfortunately, it's not like flying an airplane, where if you have a screw up, you're just a plane crashes. Right. Right. You can just kind of get past and save it. But yeah, I couldn't believe I was thinking afterwards. I was like, why did why did I say that? Like what? I don't happen to my brain. But then I realized the Rams, Bears and the Bills game probably broke my brain. Yeah. That's fair. Well, so I've been texting with you and Mina about the Seahawks really since the summer when I was like, I like the Seahawks from the division and we were talking about pros and cons and the season could not have worked out better. You had, I think you're the one that put the electromagnetic thing next to the diner's practice field. I don't know. We got to check the security camp footage. I love this. You have that. If the night or season goes to hell, you have the Rams and Seahawks left. First of all, is there animosity between Rams and Seahawks fans? This is a feud. Like what do we have here? No, I think it's different. So there would be, there would be definite animosity between Seahawks and 49er. No question. That is like the biggest, longest rivalry I think in at least for the Seahawks point of you. The Rams have always just been a really tough team for the Seahawks to play. I think there's some grudging mutual respect between the two teams. I don't like grudging mutual respect. I know. I know. I would say it's, it's not as fun. It's, I think it's the 49er thing is just, I mean, the Seahawks fans have been in absolute, have been the last two games. They played the 49ers. Their last two games and absolutely annihilated them both games. So that's been incredible. I would say it's a different dynamic with the Rams though. We hate the Rams, but it's, it's not that that primal deep-seated hatred. It's more just like one of beat them. Got it. Well, ever since, so the season's evolving and it's like, I'm still nervous about Darnell, then he's fine. Then it's time to get nervous again. Now it seems okay. The running game, frustrating all year, there was always like, why isn't Kenneth Walker doing more? And then he looks awesome in the last game. The offense got really stagnant there for about six weeks in the second half of the season. That looked like it was going to be the Achilles heel. And then they finally, I don't know that part of it was special teams and just figuring out different ways to use Shaheed. It's we had been texting about like, just use this guy, put, get, figure out ways to give him the football. It feels like that's going better. And then the defense is really good. So why wouldn't they win the Super Bowl? What are, give us here two things you're the most scared of. Other than Sam Darnell number one, Sam Darnell, what's two and three? I've been kind of hard on Sam Darnell this year. He did lead the NFL in turnover. So that's the big one. Honestly with two with with the other ones, you know, Sharbinay got hurt. He has a tornado. He's out for the year. He's been a big part of their offense in terms of the really high leverage situations where they need to they need a yard on third down, fourth down in the in the red zone. He's been good in pass pro, which is important. Kenneth Walker is not nearly as good at pass pro. So that could be an effecter. So I think that's one thing to worry about. And you know, generally speaking, just I think offensively making sure there's a spark there because there's some games where the offense just doesn't really click all that well. Yeah. I think I'm really confident in this defense. The defense can give them a chance to win. But I think it's like honestly just weird stuff happening for the offense that really worries them a the most. There should be a special teams advantage. Yeah. I don't think he's been such a big. I mean, he's been huge. He he's been a huge spark on special teams. He's been a huge spark. He's kind of like the Percy, the no drama Percy Harbin for their offense, where he can create explosive plays on some of these gadget plays. He's really good and in special teams to kick off and punt returns. So he's been a huge huge bonus for them. It's frustrating for me as a patch fan because I thought he would have been a perfect dad. Yeah. I think they probably felt Kyle Williams could do some of the Shaheed stuff at least was stretching the field. And they're good on special teams, at least for punt returns and Marcus Jones. So maybe that's why. But yeah, that was the trade when you made it. I was like, fuck, that's a good trade. That's kind of exactly what they need and it's he's perfect for them. I think there's been a little bit of consternation because they haven't incorporated him into their offense quite as much as people thought. Yeah. If you look at what Clint Kubiak did with him in New Orleans last year before he got hurt, he was a huge part of that off. He was getting deep every other play, every other game he was creating like a big touch down down the field. He hasn't really done that as much on offense, but he's been such a huge spark on special teams that I think people are totally happy. They want to keep him long term all that stuff. Do the Rams have the kind of defense that could take out JSN or is he just going to get his a catches for 110 yards? I think no, I don't think they have the shutdown defense to do that. I think, you know, especially with what they do on play action, if they can get the run game going a little bit, they've always been really good at, you know, getting JSN behind the line, behind the second level of defense when they get play action rolling. And so I'm not too worried about that. I am worried, you know, the CX defense is really good, but they did give up like 500 yards to Matt Stafford in the last game they played. I think the Rams just, the offense is really, really good. Yeah. I think just straight up McVeigh and Stafford is one of the scariest combinations I can think of on a football field. And Puka is really good. I just think that's kind of, you know, the big thing in this game is like, what can the CX do? And the first time they met the CX pretty much shut down the Rams offense or at least stymied them more than anybody else had to that point. And then in the second game, the Rams offense went absolutely nuclear. So I don't exactly know what we're going to expect from this game, but I think that's in this Rams matchup, the big worry I have is not necessarily JSN or shutting them down. It's just what is Stafford going to look like in this game? Yeah, especially coming off a terrible weather game. That was just funky in every single respect. You must have been watching, like dying for the Bears to win that game. I'm guessing. Yeah. Little bit, little bit. Again, it's not the hatred with the 49ers. It's kind of like a healthy fear of, and again, I just don't want to play Stafford. He's so good. But a young, erratic Bears team. Yeah, I would feel a lot of it. I would say a pretty shaky defense, not at home. I probably seem to like the perfect matchup. Yeah. Yeah, I just don't think the Rams looked that good the last couple of weeks. And I don't know how much of that was the Panthers game, you know, just a just weird. And I don't think the Rams played that well, but they still pulled it out. And then the Sunday night game, how cold it was in the field, as no, whatever. I thought it was the weirdest Puka game I've probably watched, where he just didn't feel like as present as he normally does in these games. I'm guessing in Seattle. What's the weather, do we know? Oh, that's a good question. It's cold here right now. I don't know what it's supposed to be like on Sunday, but yeah, it's been cold and clear here. So I think, you know, hopefully it'll be cold again. I did think that the, it's going to be like 44 on, 44 on, yeah, that's not too cold. But I think the one thing you did notice a little bit about the, the Rams offense and that really cold game was it just didn't feel like that anybody that was very explosive or fast. You know, Puka is more of a physical, yeah, you know, tough, tough over the middle, run after the catch. Yeah. That kind of player, Red Zone threat and, you know, Dvonte obviously is not super explosive at this point in his career. So that's maybe like one variable we can talk about here. It's funny to talk, you mentioned that because I was thinking, as I was watching the Bears game, thinking the Seahawks, it feels like a game you push everyone close and basically get super physical and you're not really worried about them going over the top on you. Yeah. Yeah. I think, which I think you can do with the Seahawks. This is like the perfect type of team to do that with. The Seahawks have an incredible secondary the way that they can match up with pretty much any personnel formation with their diamond nickel packages. You know, they have Nick and one worry. They have Devon Witherspoon. Those guys play like linebackers, but can cover, you know, like safeties and corners and nickelbacks. And so it does give them a pretty unique schematic advantage. I saw this I think from the Seahawks from the 49ers game the other day, the Seahawks had something like a 50% pressurate on a 10% blitz rate. Ooh. So they just get home. Yeah, that's the sign of death for an offense. Yeah. And so if they can do that against a Shanahan team, you know, I'm feeling pretty good. Like I think all Seahawks fans right now probably feel really good about where the team is. I think you've been saying this is a great chance for the Seattle, especially with. Really has kind of how the season has gone, but the big bad in the NFL to me is the Rams. Like they are the scary team. If you look at DVOA, it's Seahawks and Rams number one and number two by a mile. So this is this is a big, big matchup. And obviously there's a lot of history between these two teams. And McVeigh knows the Seahawks and, you know, I think McDonald was probably brought in to kind of like contend with McVeigh. So there's a lot of cool narratives with that. So yeah, it's going to be an awesome game. So we have home teams that have blown it at home in the title games. Oh, God. Ravens 17, 10 of the chiefs. That was two years ago. Chiefs at home to the Bengals, that goofy 2021 game where I think my homes got concussed at halftime in over one minute. 2020 bucks Packers in Green Bay during the bucks run when that was the Brady. Yeah, the Brady run. Yeah, yeah. Then we really don't hit anything until 2018. Chiefs and Saints both lost at home to the Pats and Rams. The Rams honestly should have won. And then it was like we did the last one before that was 2012. Pats and Falcons both losing at home. So you know, being at home does help playing a team that's played three games in a row in the road and the playoffs. I think I like that's it. Yeah. And the bucks were able to just win four straight and I were all four of them on the road. I can't remember. I think we had this quite a discussion today. I want to say one of them was at home. Yeah, but I think the first we had maybe the first one was. But yeah, just in general, it's always feels like an achievement. And I felt like that Rams really did look creaky the last couple of weeks. They were really lucky that Bears game. The Bears are midfield in OT with momentum and felt like they were just getting eight yards whenever they wanted. I don't I still don't understand what they were doing on that play. Yeah, we had this discussion on after the game. It was like basically we talked about the Bears for the first like 20 minutes on our show. Right. And I think a lot of Rams fans were probably pissed about that. But that was kind of the story of the game. It's like man, how did the Bears not like follow through with this miracle? Just felt like it was their destiny that they're going to win that game. That touchdown throw by Caleb was completely just, you know, that lost incredible. Yeah, I know. It's one of those like footnotes of whatever happens next is just like, oh, yeah, remember that play by Caleb Williams. That would have been would have gone down as one of the most miraculous things I've ever seen. But yeah, it you know, the Rams are good. I think they're I think the better team won. This is kind of what we were saying too. It's just like the better team did win. But they didn't look as dominant as I think I was expecting them to. They looked more mortal. A lot of that had to do with the weather. I think they're pretty banged up. Stafford hurt his hand a little bit in that game. And I think that affected his ability to throw a little bit. He's old. Yeah. Before I let you go, because I promised I wouldn't keep you on that long. But I did want to ask you your Pat's Broncos take. Lion is back up to five and a half directly on the Vegas zone. Jared Stidham. Yeah. Yeah. Starting for Denver, obviously. Pat's fans feeling good. The thing I was saying to you and Mina, because to Pat everyone's like, oh, the past year, this is going to be amazing. You're going to win the Superbowl. You didn't play anybody. Well, of course, the Seahawks are like the six best DVOA team all time. Yeah. I think since 1978. So that I would consider that playing somebody if they played the Seahawks. I mean either. Yeah, either Rams have been way up there too. So that's one thing. You could argue they'd be if they played the Seahawks and the Superbowl. If they were managed to get past the Broncos that those are the best four defenses, they would have beaten all in a row. I think that matters. Yeah. Chargers, Texans, Broncos, Seahawks. Is there anybody else? I'm sure there are, but those are the big three that I can think of. Yeah, and I think to even squeak, shoehorn and the chargers in there is probably a reach, but they would probably be the number four pick. Yeah. So. So anything I should be scared of in this game for my team. Other than the playoff history endeavor. Yeah, the will there's that. I think obviously the defense, the Broncos defense is just really good. If we if weird stuff starts happening, you get turnovers on offense. That's like kind of the way that I see this going. If the if you know the past can play clean ball and not turn the ball over. I don't see how they lose this game. But that's kind of the variable that you can't control. That's a that's a very tough variable on the road in Denver. You know against a very strong defensive very experienced playoff coach and Sean Payton. And they're going to be hunting. They're going to be hunting for turnovers and trying to get dragged off their ball because I think he has what five or six fumbles now just in the last two games. And especially they're going to be targeting Will Campbell. Oh, I got that. Yeah, I thought it was so fascinating in that game. It felt like the Texans really had just the timing dialed of his backswing or whatever when he was going to throw. They were just able to time to get the ball out by May. They had two plays where he hit it when he was like putting the ball back behind his head. So they're obviously going to try and do more of that type of stuff. You know, they're they'll try and drag the Patriots down into the mud and play like a defensive battle. Yeah, I think Stidham is one of those backups that we haven't seen him in like two years in the regular season. I don't remember who it looks like. And I remember there was like one game a couple years ago where he was look good and it was like Stidham. Okay. See that's yeah, that's all I remember. He could be in theory like a very poor man's version of Nick's and sense that they could use him and some of the run game stuff that they do with Nick's like rolling him out. So what would he what's the comparison for him? Is he like is it Davis like best case scenario is Davis Mills? The guy who came to my mind was Drew Locke actually who a guy and you know, you remember Drew Locke last year had one six touchdown. Yeah, like I don't think he's good necessarily, but I think that there's some there's some physical talent there and in the right situation things get you know, he can make some things happen. You know, obviously I think I think the lines too high. I really do. I think this is I don't care that Stidham's the quarterback. Yeah, this is a lot to ask to go in a Denver. What's the weather there against a really good defense? Yeah, I don't know what the I haven't seen that I haven't heard anything about like you know, 30s 36 and sunny. Yeah, so it shouldn't be a huge factor. But the height, you know, the altitude is certainly a thing. The pass fans like we're concentrated on the positives. We put together three good touchdown drives on Texans, right? Which is ain't nothing. Now the other drives that they had two yards, but like total. But they did put together three and you know, the issue, especially with these road games is the Drake May slow start, which just seems to be part of the package for him at the stage of his career where he just it's kind of choppy for 45 minutes and then gets going and there's going to be a time and place where that doesn't fly in a playoff game. Yeah, but you don't get going, but now I'm down 13 nothing. So, um, who do you trust? Who do you think is going to make the big play in this game? You think it's digs? I think it's Ramondrey. Is Ramondrey? He was good to go. We lost Ramondrey for like an hour of that Texans game. He came back, right? Yeah, he went back to the game. Okay. Yeah. I really think boot is good and I love when they throw it to him and so Sir Tan, I'm guessing he's going to try to just take him out, which would make digs the key person. But one of the things that we don't know yet, Matt Collins was massive for the Pat's all season. Oh, yeah. Late in the season, he was huge. He was big in fantasy. He really was important and he was a good run blocker and um, I'm looking right now. We don't know for sure if he's back, but it seems like he might be. But I just felt like he had something with Drake and Drake really trusted him. Totally. And they missed him the last month. So that would be one. But you know, and then, uh, I don't know, just winning in Denver in my head is, is a tough one. Before we go, can we talk, Mendosa really quick? Yeah. Are you 100% in on him as the number impact? I think so. Yes. Okay. I think he's, he's definitely during the season. It felt like he was getting shoehorned in as the number one, just because there wasn't really anybody else. But the way that he's played during the college football playoffs, I thought has been pretty illuminating. He's just got that, he's got that steely, you know, drive and he's really accurate. He played, he throws with anticipation. He's got a little bit of athleticism. We saw that on that fourth and five where he ran the ball in on a touchdown. I was like, wow. That is tough too. He takes a couple of big hits. I'm gonna just get up. Yeah, he, he like wants to get hit. Yeah. He wants, he likes that physicality. If you looked at his arms after the game, his arms were just all completely beat to hell. Yeah. So I, he really has grown on me. I think my initial impression of him was like, this guy's kind of a cornball, you know, personality. He's looking directly, he's looking directly into the camera when he's interviewing after the game. And I think it's like, but I think honestly, now I kind of like that. I've gone the other way. I'm like, he's kind of infectiously genuine and optimistic. And I can see why his teammates love him. And so I'm kind of, yeah, I'm kind of in on him. I think he's, you know, certainly not as physically talented as some of the other number one overall picks we've seen over the years. But I think he's got a lot of the other things you really look for at the quarterback position. He throws with anticipation. His back shoulder throws in this game were huge. You know, he has an ability to kind of elevate this entire program that came out of nowhere the last two years. So yeah, I think it makes a ton of sense for the Raiders to take him. It just feels kind of locked in at this point. I like that. He's super smart. And I look forward to the draft cycle of, I think people are going to start working on the tape and stuff for a couple of weeks. And they're going to be like, holy shit, this guy is everything. Any smart. And then there's going to be the backlash. Is he too smart? I can't wait for that. That part of the process. That's probably the second week of March. Teams now worried Mendoza's too smart. It could be like an Andrew Lux situation. Can he just take coaching? Yeah, he could just, yeah, he will be coach. Could he just walk away at age 28 because he has other career options? We'll do that all week. That'll be fun. But I think it's if you're Vegas, first of all, I can't believe they wouldn't try to get an offensive coach. Like I can't even believe they're looking at. Right. I'm just trying to match somebody with him that, you know, there's been some weird hires already though. Minsala was, I know. There's solos a weird one. I'm not even necessarily against it because you could argue that with the Jets, like he never had a quarterback. So what are you going to do? But who knows? I think it is a strange one for me just because it's hard to understand exactly what he brought to the Jets because they were such a disaster. And then he comes over to the 49ers as their defensive coordinator. And they lose their tops who players. They're completely banged up all year. And their defense wasn't very good. And then yeah, the Titans decided to hire him. I just the timeline of how it went was a little strange to me. Obviously, you know, I'm not in there in the interview and see how impressive he is. I think the players, he gets the players to play hard, which is huge. Are you? I'm in the pro McDaniel camp. You've come all the way around on DJ Mike. Yeah, I would spin in the, spin in the song. So if the Raiders TV him up with Mendoza, it's like, fuck it. We're not going to win the Super Bowl in the next couple of years. Maybe we should just put like a fucking genius with them. I know. I'm into that. Honestly, I like him. I think he had the, in an exact same thing what I was just saying was, he had the dolphins playing pretty hard at the end of the season. And he was, I think it was a, what the word is, but it was good that he'd benched to and decided to kind of like go a different direction with it. And I don't know. It felt like to me, the dolphins rallied around him and he had them playing really hard. So I think that's like, it answers a little bit of the question of, you know, how, how is he in a room of, you know, alpha pros and all that stuff? Because that's always the question with him. He's kind of a quiet guy, kind of an awkward interview. And how does he, how does the team react to this type of, or just type of coach? And I think, I don't know, to me, that answered at least a little bit of it, that he can get these guys going. Keep them playing really hard. We know that he's really good with scheme. I would just like to see him with any other quarterback besides Tuah at this point. I would look to see what his offense would look like with, with a lot of the openings right now. So it'll be a part of the design that offense because he had Tuah who kind of make a decision after one second and if he got hit, it was going to get knocked out of the game. Yeah. So you design the offense accordingly. And I mean, honestly, seeing him with Ash and Gentie would be incredible, I think, because he's, you know, he's gotten the proven production from the run game over the year. So I think that would be really fun to see what he could do with the, with the Raiders run game. Yeah. So we'll see if he ends up being a head coach again at the very least. If he doesn't get a head coach job, like he's going to be at the top of the awesome model for a lot of offense. I like the thought of him in Vegas too. Yeah. Listen, if the Pats can make the Super Bowl, all of these teams that suck but have, you know, a fourth-player schedule and some real draft capital, like they have to think about it, because we saw it with Washington. We talk about this every year when we're doing the pre-vision this summer. There's always the team. And that Vegas team is poor. The coach's last year and had some bad luck and they're going to have another hat draft pick. And they've some other stuff. They're probably going to turn Max Crosby into a couple of things. Yeah. It would be my guess. Yeah. And they're in a division that maybe you don't mind being in as much as you did a year ago. Right. But we'll see. All right. Do you have your number on fantasy player for 2026 yet? B. John Robinson? I don't know. Boring. It's going to be tough. It's the boring ones like Jameer Gibbs, B. John, Jamar Chase, Puka. When his high-fits do the... It's actually Ashton Gentie. And here's why. It's actually the opposite. It's Ashton Gentie. Yeah. That'll be coming probably in July. I'm sure he'll workshop something. I'm in that playoff that fantasyly that goes to the playoffs that I told you about. It's basically going to come down to a kind of Drake May play two more games. Yeah. As if I didn't have enough at stake with all of the other things going on in life. Anyway, you can watch and listen to Danny Kelly in the Ranger fantasy football show. He's with Craig and high-fits. Craig's on the rewatchables as well, premiering on Netflix next week with the video. So we're having fun. Good to see you. Good luck with the Seahawks. I'm almost definitely betting on them in some forms. Absolutely. And by the way, we do appreciate that you've been in the corner of the Sonics this whole time. I'd listen as long as as long as I'm back and as long as my library watchables in Seattle at some point in 2026 will not be awkward for everybody. I think we're fine. I think we walked through this. All right. Good to see you DK. All right, you too. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Bihoni and Mad Dog. Thanks to Danny Kelly. I apologize again to the city of Seattle and all the Seahawks fans. Thanks to Gihau and Eduardo as well. Don't forget new rewatchables is up. Just one of the guys. Another one coming Wednesday. Another 48 hours. And again, February 11th will turn Los Angeles. If you like the rewatchables and Michael Man movies, I would strongly consider going to this. I will see you on Thursday with some playoff picks, some football, maybe some basketball too. Go Pats. I don't have a feeling. Must be 21 plus in president's select states for Kansas. An affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus in president DC. Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem called 100 game or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-79777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat. Comedicate or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here visit gambling help line ma.org. Recall 800-327-5050 for 24 seven sport. Massachusetts are call 877-8 hope NY or text hope NY in New York.