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You don't want it, you don't need it, but you're gonna get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here, I am here. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, Window Nation. 866-90-NATION, windonation.com if you need new windows. I got this from Hal Tommy. He writes, Landman's finale was one of the best chaos finales of a show I've ever seen. Thanks for the tip. I was out of breath. Yeah, it was chaos start to finish, but it was very entertaining. And for those that missed it after I just absolutely torched season two of Landman, that was before the final two episodes. The final two episodes were really good. I enjoyed them. did you enjoy the Super Bowl? Well, I mean, look, I recognized how boring it was. I recognized I enjoyed parts of it, and I enjoy most football games. A football game has to be really bad, and this wasn't really bad, you know, for me not to enjoy it. I enjoyed being right about one of my pregame predictions. What was your pregame prediction? I forget now. You picked Seattle? I predicted Seattle 24-10. 24-10. I also predicted three turnovers for Drake May. Is that all he had in the game? That's what he had. Three turnovers. Yeah. So I got the turnovers, right? So that makes me happy, you know, because that's – That's amazing. In this dwindling world of satisfaction, that's what we live for. Yeah. Right? Well, you too. You like it too. Don't bullshit. Here's the difference. When I fail miserably, I highlight that too. For you, it becomes something. You know what? You'd be a great cornerback because you put the last play behind you very quickly unless it's successful. Any sort of bad play does not exist in your world. This is twisting the truth. You don't remember the times I admit failure because they're so rare. Yes, you've said that before. I feel like that was a deja vu moment just then. I've heard that before. I do have to tell you, though, real quickly before we get back to the Super Bowl with more Super Bowl follow-up, I guess. And I talked about this on the podcast. So I totally messed up a Super Bowl trivia question, but it was such self-inflicted damage, Tommy, because it was a question that I asked on Super Bowl trivia week during Super Bowl trivia week on the show last week. And then for some reason, because there was a lot of feedback to the question, people liked the question and they were tweeting me the answers and, and, you know, some people got the answer right. And, but more importantly, some people suggested that it was more than the number I had asked for. Let me just tell you what the question was. The question was, name four quarterbacks who played and started games for the Redskins, but also started in Super Bowls for other teams. Well, naming the four quarterbacks was inaccurate because there were actually six, but I only had four. Now, nobody got the answer or got near the answer, and I dinged them for it. The person that tried to answer it on the show, I don't even think named one of the quarterbacks, but people love that question. And they started thinking about it. And a lot of people sent in answers. And when I started to see the answers and I started to see people saying, you missed one there, Bub. But then on the show that I did Sunday, I, I said, Hey, here was a cool question. And let me give everybody the answer that was curious. And I gave the wrong answer. Cause I only gave four and there were six. Let's see. Stan Humphreys. Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson. Yeah. Those are three. Hold on for a second. Are you trying to answer this question without knowing? You don't really know the answer? No, I don't. Okay. Good job so far. You got three. There are three more. Okay. I'm thinking. I'm thinking. Okay. I hit a wall already. Well, the first two names you gave, Stan Humphreys and Jeff Hostetler, were the two that I didn't have in the answer. And it's like, how did I not get Stan Humphreys in particular? The other three, Rich Gannon, Donovan McNabb, who we did his show that one year. I would have remembered Donovan McNair I would not have gotten Rich Cannon and then the other one, the last one was the guy that just said, F it baby I'm going deep Rex Grossman yeah so I asked the question as four because I didn't have Stan Humphreys and Jeff Hostetler in my researching of this question you know this about Super Bowl trivia I basically put all the questions together on my own. Tim Shovers helps out every year. It's become a tradition that Tim who used to work at the station, um, uh, Tim will send me a bunch of questions and I incorporate some of those in there. But, uh, yeah. So, um, anyway, I came clean on the mistake, but I didn't need to come clean because everybody, everybody called me out for it. Uh, by the way, the radio show today, if you want to go listen, I had Joe Gibbs on the show today. Wow. And I also had Will Dawkins, the general manager of the Wizards, on the show today. Wow, that's small. Easy. Easy. Will Dawkins was actually great. But I had actually reached out. I may have said this to you. Actually, I wouldn't have said this to you because Sonny passed away after our Thursday show. And I do want you to talk about Sonny in the column that you wrote about Sonny. But I reached out to Joe on Friday and I said, hey, will you come on with me to talk about Sonny? And he said, I can't do it today. And then he did it today. He couldn't do it Friday. He did it today. And it was, you know, it's always good to catch up with Joe. It was very funny because we were talking about the Super Bowl, I think. And he said, you know, somebody brought this up to me that our 1991 team, and I knew exactly where he was going with it, but I let him go through the whole thing. is the best Super Bowl team of all time. We were ranked number one, and we're the only one to be ranked number one offense, defense, and special teams. And I said, yeah, that team has often been written about or via the DVOA stuff that Aaron Schatz does. Aaron has had the 91 team as the greatest regular season, postseason team in NFL history. And so I said, you've always been reluctant to say which team was your best team, but you pretty much just said it was the 91 team. Yes, he did. And he quickly backtracked. And he said, oh, no, but what? And then he goes into the 82 team and the 87 team. He goes, I don't like to name the best team. The 91 team was the best Redskin team of all time. And the fact that it's pretty much. And they're the best teams of all time. And they're probably, you know, according to a lot of different metrics, DVOA in particular, the greatest team of all time. But one of the reasons that came back up was because Seattle, per DVOA, just completed the fourth greatest season in NFL history. So the 2025 Seahawks are behind the 91 Skins, the 85 Bears, and the 2007 Patriots, who did not win the Super Bowl. I think the Seahawks were really good, Tommy. But one of the things that I said yesterday, I'll just ask you the question. Which defense was better, Seattle's defense this year or Philadelphia's defense last year that also was dominant in their Super Bowl win? I think Seattle's defense. Why? I think this one. I think this one, I just think this one was more opportunistic. I think that this one made the other team pay the price more than Philadelphia did. Yeah, I actually think it's the opposite. I think Philadelphia's defense was better. I think Philadelphia dominated the competition in a much different way. The Rams, I mean, they had Seattle's number. I mean, Matt Stafford threw for 831 yards and six touchdowns in two games that were very recent. including the NFC Championship game. I mean, nobody did that to Philadelphia, with the exception, actually, of Jaden Daniels, who in their final two games against Philadelphia, he didn't have Matt Stafford numbers, but he was the only guy, and the Washington offense was the only one to really have success against Philadelphia's defense down the stretch. The difference for me, though, more than anything else, is that the Chiefs last year with Patrick Mahomes are not the Patriots with Drake May. The Patriots were playing the game not to lose. They were hoping that Sam Darnold would make the mistake and they could capitalize on it like they did in the AFC Championship game when Jarrett Stidham had the big turnover deep in their own territory. They would not let Drake May cost them the football game until it didn't matter anymore. And that's not the way Kansas City approached the game. And Kansas City didn't cross midfield. until late in the third quarter of the Super Bowl last year. And they dominated the Chiefs last year. Look, Seattle's defense was awesome. We saw it in early November. I still can't get over what the Rams did to that defense, though. As good as that defense was, it's amazing what the Rams did to it. You convinced me. You convinced me now. I'm on your side on this. Is it because of the Rams and what they did, or is it because the Chiefs were the opponent? The Chiefs were the opponent. Yeah, no, you've convinced me. There you go, I was wrong. Yeah. That's amazing what just happened. We should stop the show right now and acknowledge that Tommy just admitted that he was, well, I mean, you're kind of like Arthur Fonzarelli. You could never admit that you were wrong, but you just did it. Wait another five years, and it'll probably happen again. This from Tim. Tim writes, Drake May wasn't allowed to be great in the Super Bowl, Kevin. You said it yourself on the show. You were harsh, overly, after you said that he wasn't allowed to be great. I didn't say he wasn't allowed to be great, Timmy. I said they took the ball out of his hands for the second straight game. That's telling, by the way. That is telling. I said his performance was abysmal. But I also said that he wasn't the only culpable party on offense. Will Campbell was terrible. Their offensive line struggled. Josh McDaniels didn't come up with any easy answers. They saw the same blitz over and over again, and there was no hot receiver. There was no quick game. Jay was on with us yesterday, talked about some of that stuff. But it's true that he wasn't allowed to go out and sling it around. But how do you think that would have worked out, Timmy? Seriously. Did you watch him against the Chargers, Texans, and Broncos before this game? He had objectively one of, if not the worst, postseasons in the history of the sport for a quarterback. and I still like him though. I still think he's going to be a very good quarterback. I think he was very good during the regular season. I'll tell you what, Tommy, that would have been some sort of dilemma, and I know it's a regular season award, but had Drake May eked out the MVP and he was damn close, it would really look silly after the postseason he had. Yes, it would. It certainly would. I don't think I was too harsh on Drake May. If I was too harsh, everybody's been too harsh. He was objectively terrible in the postseason. But I will say what I said going into the postseason, and even after the Houston game, when he fumbled six times, put the ball on the ground, or in those two games against the Chargers in Houston, fumbled six times, lost three of them. I said, this dude can do it, and he's going to be really good. And we're going to have a debate about Drake or Jaden for a while. I like Jaden more for a lot of reasons that I've expressed. By the way, Jay Gruden on the podcast yesterday said, I said, go back and redraft. You've got two years worth of data. Go back and redraft 2024. He said Jaden won, Caleb two. He actually put Bo Nix ahead of Drake May and had Drake May fourth. I thought that was surprising. Yeah. I think I would go Jaden one. I think I'd go Drake May two. But it'd be close with Caleb. Really close. It's going to be a draft that produces some really, really good quarterbacks. Plural. Not one, but at least two. And probably three. What else from the Super Bowl? You want to talk about Bad Bunny? What did you think of the halftime show? Okay. I enjoyed it you know I didn't understand what he was saying but I didn't understand what Kendrick Lamar was saying last year either you know and I enjoyed this one more well Kendrick Lamar did it in English though yeah but I didn't understand it okay so I enjoyed this one more than last year he got a message across which I think last year they didn't. And the bottom line is, it's not for me, okay? I mean, I'm 72 years old. Jesus. You know, a halftime show can't be for me. And it seems to be a smart business decision by the NFL the last couple years to do it the way they've done it. They're trying to reach new audiences. Well, this was far different than Kendrick Lamar. I know. Yeah. I know. but this was more of an international thing their international push this year but you know what's funny? I saw the athletic which becomes more and more pathetic every day by the way what did you say? the athletic more pathetic every day I like the athletic but what are you talking about? they posted something on social media the top 10 Super Bowl halftime shows. None of them were before 2000. Not a one. You know? Uh-huh. You know, there was a year where they had a halftime show where 88 piano players were on the field playing the piano at the same time. What year was that? 68? It might have been 88 Huh You know It might have been 88 Okay But it was a remarkable show You know Springsteen did a halftime show for crying out loud So, I mean, I just, so, I mean, I thought it was an interesting, entertaining show. It's not for me, okay? And I think it had a good message that they got across. and the bottom line is I think it was a great business decision by the NFL. Yeah, I don't know about the business decision. I'll take your word for it. I think obviously they're trying to expand the product and they're going to be playing more international games this coming season and eventually we're probably going to have 18 games and 18 international games or 16 anyway. Yeah, look, what you said, it definitely was not for me. And I tend to be, when it comes to music in particular, I'm available for things that I'm not familiar with. I mean, I have a musician's son. I've got two sons who play basically everything. And I've loved some of the shows in recent years where it's not like it was my favorite genre of music. I thought Usher a few years ago was phenomenal. Now, I'm a big Alicia Keys fan. I'm a big Her fan. Ludacris was a part of that show, so it was a great show altogether. But this one for me, you know, I guess it was choreographed well. I didn't understand it. I mean, it was pretty cool that the wedding ceremony was real. Okay. We didn't know that when it was going on. I mean, you know, I do like Lady Gaga, but, you know, what? And maybe the coolest part was the video that they showed on social media of all the people standing up in the bushes and running off the field. Those were all people in those bushes. That was probably the best thing about the show. What about the music? What about the music? You've already said it. Not for you. Right. Yeah, by the way, it was a genre of music that I'm actually not even really familiar with. I mean... It didn't turn me off. It didn't turn me off. Right. So, again, I think it was a business decision. I think it worked for them. It certainly wasn't Prince, that's for sure. No. Well, again, it wasn't Prince, absolutely. No. It wasn't. You know what? I'm trying to think, was it you and the two of us were at the Who press conference together, right? When they played. Yes. They played behind blue eyes. Yeah. In the press conference. It was so good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Townsend and Daltrey, right? The two of them were up there. Yes. That was really good. For those that don't know what I'm talking about, during Super Bowl week, the halftime act on Thursday holds a press conference. It's in where it was for many years in the same building where we had Radio Row and we were doing our show. And Tommy and I, for the Who, literally got up there and sat right in the front row. and they played a small, you know, set, um, which included, I want to say in addition to behind blue, uh, behind blue eyes, I think they played an acoustic version of pinball wizard, right? I don't remember that. I won't get fooled again. Maybe. I don't know. I just remember behind blue eyes was so good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, there were a couple of others. We went for, um, Petty, uh, the Petty halftime was great. I remember Katy Perry's halftime show when we went to the press conference. Was that you and me at that one? No, it wasn't. No. No, look, I mean, according, and I know this is, you know, people know this already. Bad Bunny was Spotify's top global artist. Oh, look, that part of it is obvious. This guy just took home multiple Grammys, album of the year. He's Spotify's number one streamed artist worldwide. I get that part. I totally get that part. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have. I'm just saying, I guess what surprised me about it is that I was open to kind of hoping that maybe it would be something that I would then this week at some point, go listen to some of the music. It's a genre that I'm totally unfamiliar with. And I didn't, because the whole thing was in Spanish. I don't know, maybe it could have been more impactful if it wasn't in Spanish solely. That's not unfair. That's reasonable. If you're going to take that swing, which doesn't seem like a big swing because of his status worldwide, it is an American event. It's mostly an American audience. and even though Spanish is a language that many speak as their second language for Americans, there are plenty more that don't speak it and probably, you know, I think it may have impacted the way they received it. It did for me, but anyway. Yeah, the commercials, anything on that? All the commercials were pretty lame except for the Dunkin' Donuts. They had a Dunkin' Dunkin'. That was good. Yeah. Yeah, that was good. That stood out. The rest of them were lame. It was great watching. The AI commercials were very lame, considering you can do anything you want with AI. I'll be curious to see what the numbers wind up being. It wasn't a great Super Bowl. The commercials weren't great. And, you know, the halftime show was probably the biggest draw of the day. Do you know what? So there was a commercial on during the Super Bowl, and I caught the very end of it. But I saw it. It ran last night on something. Christina Applegate has MS. I didn't know that. Did you know that? No. Did you see the ad that they had for the Super Bowl with her? I don't recall seeing it. Anyway, it was basically her talking about having MS and dealing with the bad parts of it, but also the good parts of it and sort of promoting a way as a reach out to people who have MS. I'm a fan of hers, not just because she's pretty and she's been really good. I became a real fan of hers. Remember, she hosted SNL, I don't know, 15 years ago, and she was great. I like she's normal. And then I kind of followed her, watched her get interviewed in a number of things. And she just wasn't what I thought she, she would be totally normal, smart, the whole thing. But that was a really good ad with her. And man, I had no idea. I knew, I thought she had had cancer at some point, um, but was healthy again. Um, MS. Yeah. What do you think? Did you notice the Adventures of Cliff Booth trailer that they put up there. With Brad Pitt, yes. Yeah, but they didn't tell you. They didn't tell you what's coming, I know. But I can't wait for it. That was pretty good. Yeah, what's it going to be? What's it going to be? It was directed by David Fincher coming out in 2026. He was so good playing Cliff Booth in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. that was a great role for Pitt a phenomenal role he was so good I like that that was very very interesting to see that happen there were a lot of like teases and promotions of upcoming movies that one was definitely memorable for me for that same reason alright yeah you know mentioning the numbers I would bet it's not going to do a great number, relatively speaking, because blowouts never do. You know, they just typically. On the other hand, it was very cold in most of the. Yeah, it's not like we had a lot of options. Although, you know what, Tommy? It's 43 degrees today. It's the warmest day. It's the warmest day we've had in two and a half weeks. And it's going to be in the 40s for much of the rest of the week. I'm looking to see it's 43 degrees right now at national. That's the warmest we've been in two and a half weeks. It's going to be 44 tomorrow, 38 Thursday. And then this weekend, I think we're going to get a rainstorm. It looks like right now. Um, although it could go either way. Um, you know what? I'm all for rain and forties and fifties. Get all this stuff away. It's just, it's really become a pain in the ass. All right. I want to hear your thoughts on Sonny Jurgensen. We'll get to those right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, new sponsor on the podcast this week. I want you to pay attention to Mando. Mando is a whole-body deodorant. This is important for many of you, especially for those of you that are back into the dating world. You're getting ready for a first date. Deodorant is a non-negotiable on a first date, and this is a whole body deodorant safe to use anywhere on your body. 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Even though you are the last man standing in town, your obituary, which you wrote for the Washington Times on Sonny Jurgensen, the column that you wrote that I think appeared yesterday in the paper, I'm sorry, but even if the other paper's sports section did still exist, that's the best stuff you guys are going to get on Sonny Jurgensen. Tommy knew Sonny. We both had the exposure to Sonny really through the radio station. Tommy is also a columnist for the Washington Times. But if you're going to read anything about Sonny Jurgensen, read Tommy. Go to his Twitter account, his ex-account, at Tom Levero. That's Tom with an H-T-H-O-M, Levero. And you can link to what he wrote about Sonny. But a phenomenal job in remembering Sonny's life. Well, thank you. Yes. Thank you. I mean, that's important to me because I want to do him justice. Right. I know. I mean, I want to do his legacy and his memory justice because he was such an important figure in sports in this town. and I always talk about the gifts I've been given in my job, and one of those gifts I always counted was knowing Sonny Jurgensen. I mean, if I'm thinking of Tom Laverro, the fam, you know, who had never became a sports writer, just shaking Sonny Jurgensen's hand, like on the street or at a football game, I talk about that for years. you know so so I mean I felt very fortunate and in the obituary one of the things I was able to do and one of the things I'm able to do unfortunately it's a sad task but it's an important task is when there's a passing of a former Redskin I can usually speak to it very well because I have all the interviews I did for Hail Victory, the book. I have them all transcribed, the oral history I did. So I talked to so many of these guys for such a long time. Sonny, I've got seven pages of an interview. So how long did Sonny sit with you for that book? Well, like I said, seven pages. I know, but what is seven pages time-wise? Oh, I don't know. 35, 40, 45 minutes or so. You know, I had lots of stuff about Sam that I could use when he passed away. And I had stories, you know, that I used both in the obituary and in the column. The column was about Sonny and Vince Lombardi and how Sonny always wondered how his career might have unfolded if he had been with Vince Lombardi after 68. because he loved the Lombardi so much and I was able to pull a quote from Len Hart who was Sonny Center right the whole time he was in Washington and you know he lent lent from the book I used I used it in the column Len said you know Sonny was talking to him one day after practice and saying you know, isn't this great to have Lombardi as the coach? He's kicking our ass, and that's just what we need. You know, he's pushing us to do 110%, and Len Haas looks at him and says, Sonny, that's good for you, but I give 110% all the time. Yeah, right. How do you do that? Yeah, Sonny gave 110% off the field. There was no doubt about that. Yeah. That's funny. So he said, it's fine for you, but I'm already giving him everything I got. Right. So there was stuff like that in the column about Lombardi. there are stories in the obituary about you know about like when he met tom jones at a touchdown club dinner and i think it was mike bragg or somebody asked uh sonny how does it feel to meet such a celebrity and sonny said well you'll have to ask tom jones Yeah, right. So there was a lot of that, and he was an important figure to so many people, just the ones who had encounters with him, the Sunday afternoon radio broadcast of the game, radio being maybe the most intimate of all the communication forms, so people really felt connected with Sonny on those Sunday afternoons. And then the ones that were lucky enough to see him play, to see him, you know, maybe the best passer in our lifetime. So, you know, but remember we did the Lunch with a Legend? No, it was the best. It was the best. I mean, it was just so good, you know. He was so comfortable. Yet, you know, he didn't want to do a book. Right. I talked to him about that a couple of times, and he had, for some reason, he had no interest in doing a book. But he was not like he was reclusive. He would pretty much talk to anybody. He didn't seek it out. But if you wanted to talk, he'd be willing to talk. And he managed to survive all the different administrations. He managed to survive the Snyder era because he was above it. He was Sonny Jerk. Yeah, he, that's, yeah. His presence transcended however, however despicable the business was at that time. He transcended that. That's so true about, you know, I think about, because Sonny was at the park all the time. and he was close with everybody coaches, general managers, front office, you know, Dan during all of those years but Dan never stuck to Sonny at all because he was Sonny, he was above it yeah he had his own special place in the universe and nothing could change that and nothing could damage it and it will never be damaged. His place in Washington's sports universe will always exist. Every organization has somebody like Sonny. I mean, every organization has kind of their Mount Rushmore, you know, players. I shouldn't say every organization has it. Look, I said the following, and because we haven't talked about this together, because the last time we did a show was Thursday. I think in terms of just the most beloved Redskins of all time, it's Sonny and then Riggo, and they're really close. You know, I don't know that they're, you know, Daryl and Art probably are next in line, but they're a notch below in terms of just being adored by this fan base over a long period of time. and would you agree with that first of all yeah i would agree with that and the big difference being is starting in a whole audience on the radio right that's true and riggo was much more i mean riggo was doing his own thing he was living in new york he was you know before he came back here to do a radio show, which I was a part of. Um, that's why he came back to Washington, uh, in 2006. And he's been here ever since, but John's reclusive compared to Sonny. Um, you know, and always has been, um, you know, I, I, in that, but there are, there are other places, you know, other big markets where there is a version of Sonny, you know, and I'm talking about Like Sam Huff is that to old-time Giant fans. Like I'm always surprised when some of my friends who are New York, Connecticut, Jersey guys whose parents or whose dads are long-time Giant fans. And I've had these conversations before because they're sometimes interested in what I do with the Redskins and what we've been doing here for a while now. and they'll say, well, Sam Huff, you know, Sam Huff, you know, is, you know, red skin, but he's an all-time giant. Like Huff and I think Gifford also is revered in that way. But Huff is really, for Giant fans, old-time Giant fans, almost the Sonny equivalent. Am I right about that? I think I am. Yeah, I think you're right. I remember the Giants, those Giant teams, they were known for their defense. Right. More than their offense. and Sam Huff was the star. I remember he was the star of one of the first sports documentaries when they did The Violent World of Sam Huff. Oh, yeah, that one. I thought it was what they called pro football. No, it's The Violent World. Yeah. He was on the cover of Life magazine. Yes. And this is a guy who grew up, Sam, and now we're talking about Sam, He grew up in a town of maybe 100 people in West Virginia. Yeah, I know. I mean, do you think Roger Staubach is that for longtime Cowboy fans? I don't know. I mean, look, Sonny was different. Sonny was different, and he talked about this. You know, Sonny was different because when he played, and he even he bragged about this you know he wasn't he wasn't a greek god he had a little belly that that that hunt you know that that came over it got through his turkey and he would say you know the guy sitting at home could look at him and relate to him you know the people could say that could be me except for the golden arm right yeah but uh and and he always had that quality he always had that quality on roger stallback i mean he was he was a third in vietnam he went to naval academy you know he's no one thinks they can be roger stallback okay you know no i understand i understand that all back you're probably intimidated i don't i mean you may be in awe of sonny when you hadn't met him but i don't think you ever i think this is partly because of the way he was. I don't think you ever felt intimidated. I mean, I think there are different reasons for a player being all time, you know, loved, uh, by a fan base. Like in the case of like, and I'm just, I was just going through the standings here to try to come up with a comparable for Sonny. The funny thing is you'd have to be a certain age as a, as an NFL fan of another team to say Sonny at this point. Because if you're a fan of another team and you haven't lived in the market, you haven't experienced Sonny as a broadcaster for all of these years. But like in Cleveland, Jim Brown's the all-time greatest Brown. There's no doubt about that. But you know, Bernie Kosar is one of the all-time most beloved Cleveland Browns. Like any Cleveland person will tell you, So, you know, Bernie's just adored by that fan base. Elway in Denver, has there ever been a Bronco close to Elway? I don't think so. No. The answer would be no, right? I can't imagine there would be. Yeah. Those are the ones that sort of came to mind. I mean, you know, you've got so many different options in other places. I guess Brady in New England, obviously. Right? Yeah. All right. Who's all-time in Philadelphia? Wasn't like Chuck Bednarik for years the guy? And Jaws is certainly a guy that everybody loves. I think Jaworski. Yeah. Jaworski probably. Because Jaworski had a second career on ESPN, and he was visible, and he always seemed approachable. Right. You know, some guys like Chuck Bednarik, I'd be afraid to walk up to Chuck Bednarik. concrete Charlie, you know? So, like LT, there's no giant more revered. The greatest giant in the history of the franchise is Lawrence Taylor. But he's dangerous, okay? He has an edge. I think, you know, when I said Huff and even Gifford, I'm really talking about older Giant fans. Lawrence Taylor is not only probably the number one for Giant fans, say, under the age of 60. He is, for NFL fans, a number one all-time. And he's the one that people would say about the Giants, well, of course it's LT. Just like I think Chicago, everybody would say, well, of course it's Walter Payton. And yet, you know, Dick Butkus and Gail Sayers and Hallis and all these, like there's certain organizations that in our organization goes back that far. But nobody's going to say Sammy Baugh, you know, because nobody's alive that saw Sammy Baugh play. Too far back. Yeah. What about the Lions? It would be Barry Sanders, right? It would probably be Barry Sanders. Yeah, absolutely. Have to be. Green Bay, like the first thing I thought of There was a time in the 50s and the 60s where it would have been Bobby Lane who was a great quarterback who was the last player to lead the Lions to NFL titles in the 50s and was an off-the-field character that generated a lot of interest among fans He was, somebody needs to make a movie about Bobby Lane. Packers. I can tell you that. Packers. Packers is a tough one. Yeah. Because the. Mark Starr comes to mind. Well, for me, I immediately thought of Brett Favre. You see, Brett Favre, I mean, he's diminished himself. He's diminished himself. Well, he. You know? Like he has. Well, he's diminished himself post-career for a lot of people that aren't football fans. and maybe for football fans. I don't know if Green Bay fans feel that way. What about Miami? Like, Marino immediately comes to mind, but they didn't win with Marino. They won with... Well, the Brian... I mean, Bob Greasy... Yeah. You know, probably Zonka, maybe, at some point. Larry Zonka was probably the most beloved Dolphin. Mm-hmm. The Hall of Famer, they won two Super Bowls. He was kind of a blue-collar guy. Bob Greasy was not a blue-collar guy. I mean, I would assume that the Vikings, it would come from Page or Eller, but it also might be Fran Tarkington. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. We could do this for the next 30 minutes. We won't. I think that the thing that a lot of people of a certain age don't understand is just how much this fan base loved Sonny Jurgensen. And Ernie said this to me because I had Ernie Bauer on Friday's show because Ernie was close to Sonny. And he said the thing about Sonny and Riggo is not only were they great players, and Riggo obviously won it all. I mean, Riggo was a champion and the first champion for this team, unless you're going to take me back to 1945. But they were guys' guys and they were characters. And there was a relatability and an entertainment factor involved in both of them. And the truth is we knew this, I think maybe at the time with Riggo, But certainly in the media, like Redskins Report is really an iconic show with George and Sonny and Riggo and Wilbon. And their self-deprecating senses of humor were a big part of their likability, too, as they got older. Yes, we were fortunate to be around Sonny a bunch because of the radio station. And it was always a pleasure and for me, surreal, because that's the first sports kind of hero I can remember. And it was really driven by my uncle, who was the biggest Sonny Jurgensen fan. And Sonny, I remember, signed a football that my uncle had before he passed away. He signed a football for him. And, I mean, he couldn't have been more thrilled. All right. You know, one of the things I did post on social media, like I said, was a column I wrote a few years ago about sitting with Sonny and Billy Gilmer for an inning or two while they were watching a Nationals game. You know? Yeah, that was great. That's a moment in my lifetime. Yeah. You know? And they're asking me questions. They're asking me questions about Dusty Baker. Right. And the team and stuff. That was just great. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. The two of them. Wow. All right. We got more show to go. We'll get to it right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, I've talked a lot about Chime over the last year. It's just a much smarter way to bank. I mean, it's a situation where you're finally going to feel like the bank is on your side. You'll be able to dodge all of those ridiculous fees. 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Chime's not just smarter banking, it's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up, head to chime.com slash Shein. That's chime.com slash Shein. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services, a secured Chime Visa credit card, and MyPay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply, and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com slash fees info. Advertised annual percentage yield with Chime Plus status only. Otherwise, 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on-time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, I'm going to give you a little bit of a gift today, talking about Shelly's Backroom. I'm hungry. Okay. Is that the gift? I'm going to give you a little bit of a gift at Shelly's. Look, I could talk about the great selection of cigars that they have, and they do have the best selection in town, but that really wouldn't do much for you because you're not a cigar guy. you know i could talk about their great selection of drinks on their drink menu and that would that would that might hit a hit a note with that would pique my interest that would pique my interest you're like but i'm going to really the heart of the matter your stomach yeah okay and it's growling right now about i'm going to talk about their menu specifically their burgers and i'm going to read right off their website you can find out more shelly's backroom.com. Shelly's burgers are made with, quote, a unique blend of Angus ground chuck, beef short ribs, and beef brisket. Always fresh, never frozen. Served on a butter-toasted roll with homemade fries, lettuce, tomato, onions, and a kosher pickle. Mmm. I'd take the pickle off. You know, they... But I love everything else. they have like different choices of burgers they have the El Diablo burger with pepper jack cheese and grilled jalapeno served with a spicy mayo they have the patty melt one half pound of Shelly's custom blend with caramelized onions and your choice of cheese on a grilled sour bread sourdough bread and then they have the black and then blue burger you know so they have these I'm telling you if you go to Shelly's and you have one of these burgers you'll say why didn't I come here before I'm telling you I want a burger right now so much every time you do these burgers from Shelly's when you incorporate them into your spot I literally want to get in the car and drop down to Shelly's and have one of those burgers they're really good And you know what? I might even smoke a cigar when I'm down there in a few hours. Deli's back room at 1331 F Street Northwest in the district. That's a good spot. Great spot. So today was coordinator day, Tommy. The two new coordinators held press conferences. Dan Quinn kicked it off 28 minutes of Dan Quinn. And then we got Durante Jones, the new defensive coordinator. And then we got David Blau, the new offensive coordinator. So I watched all three. And let me just, I'm going to give you, I think, honestly, the one highlight of basically an hour's worth of press conferences. Quinn was asked about the vision of offense. He was asked about Cliff Kingsbury. He basically sidestepped almost everything specific to Kingsbury, just saying over and over again, really tough decision. These are the hard decisions you've got to make, et cetera, et cetera. He was asked about his vision for the offense under David Blau, and he said it's going to be an aggressive, balanced attack that will have more under center than we've had in the past for run action and play passes to generate explosive plays. It'll feature every part of Jaden in ways that makes him unique and special. And David Blau pretty much repeated that sentiment in terms of his belief that you can generate more opportunities from being under center, especially, and he called out play action and what they call keepers. The Shanahan system, bootlegs have always been called QB keepers because they keep it after the fake, even though it's an actual kind of old-school description bootleg. That really was, I think, the stuff that was newsworthy, but I think we were expecting that anyway. I was impressed with Durante Jones and the way he handled himself during the press conference. He is definitely new to this, as is David Blau. David Blau started off the press conference, I thought, a little bit nervous. And then by the end of it, I'm like, yeah, I get it. There's something about him that I bet is relatable with the players because he was one recently. And he talked about all the influences. He talked about being obviously in Detroit, being in Minnesota, and was very complimentary of Cliff Kingsbury as well. Durante Jones talked a lot about Brian Flores, but actually probably dropped Mike Zimmer's name as much as he did Brian Flores' name. Being on that Minnesota staff when Mike Zimmer was not only the head coach, but a defensive head coach. And he mentioned players. He mentioned Luvu, loves Luvu, and talked about the versatility of San Restill, Kwon Martin, Will Harris, Jordan McGee. David Blau said he sees Bill Krosky-Meritt as a number one back, but he also said he's the only back under contract and there will be some acquisitions made in that particular area. But it wasn't any sort of earth-shattering news day from the coordinators, but I thought they both did a nice job. And I think some of the stuff that you wanted to know, like, why did you move on from Cliff Kingsbury? He really kind of sidestepped anything specific to that. But when he answered the vision of Blau under center more, you know, balanced attack, you know, that's what Quinn wants to go to. That's why he did this because he sees Jaden, flourishing in sort of a Shanahan-style attack, certainly with more play-action pass attempts and more under center to get to that than we've seen under Cliff. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of it. Here's what I don't understand, and it speaks to the politics inside, not just this building, I guess, but any NFL organization. and I don't quite understand it. At some point during the season, since Cliff Kingsbury worked for Dan Quinn, Quinn could have pulled him in and said, you know what? Let's switch up the playbook a little bit. Let's have Jaden under center more. And what's Cliff going to say? No, that's not going to happen. Why doesn't this unfold like that? You've brought this up to me before. This season was an absolute train wreck. They were bringing in people off the street. And the people, by the way, on the practice squad, remember, you know, the offensive players that they were pulling off the practice squad to play had been here since April, you know, and they had learned a system. They were younger players, very inexperienced in some cases, in other cases not totally inexperienced. But to add to all of the personnel changes and offensive philosophical change in the middle of a season? It's not an atomic bomb for crying out loud. Nobody's saying it's an atomic bomb. I'm just saying, what would the point have been? And first of all, you're talking about with Jaden, he barely played. A healthier Jaden Daniels, maybe. What'd you say? Maybe a healthier Jaden Daniels. Maybe with a healthier Jaden Daniels, maybe some of that would have happened. Maybe Jaden Daniels would have been healthier. Well, who knows? He didn't play. I mean, he played in four games start to finish. But those games, he may not have gotten hurt when he got hurt if they had changed the offense. Well, he got hurt in the second game of the year. Did you want him to change the offense after they beat the Giants in the opener? No, but he came back. Then he came back. All I know is that the head coach had to sit there. And then he came back and played great for two games. The head coach had to sit there during the season and watch an offense run that he didn't like. That's insane. I'll tell you what, for the head coach, given that he's a defensive head coach, the only thing that worked a little bit on this team this year was the offense. The defense was an absolute garbage. It was a five-alarmer. I mean, don't you think he had a little bit to deal with on that end? He moved on from his defensive coordinator before Madrid. That probably was more time-consuming for him than worrying about going to his offensive coordinator and saying change the offense. Yes, that's what you're here for. With Robbie chosen at wide receiver. Yeah, no. I don't see that having much sense. Chris Moore, Robbie chosen, all these different players that were running around out there. The personnel doesn't matter. The personnel do not matter. Yeah, it does. It absolutely matters. Who was in charge? The head coach. And he had to watch an offense play, not necessarily just because they were bad, but not the way that he wanted it to play. Well, he should have made that decision in the offseason because the season had already started. You can't do that? You can. You can change up your game plan. You can change up the play calling. but if you think all of a sudden we're going to start becoming a zone run team with our quarterback under center, who, by the way, isn't available to play, and we've got guys running around there that don't even run the right routes when we call a pass play, and oh, by the way, this is the side of the ball, even with all of the chaos, is much more functional than the other side of the ball. No, I think he actually, if he thought about going to Cliff to say, let's change it up, thought better of it and said, maybe we just need to get our players healthy and get a few stops on defense. Maybe that's the priority. By the way, they did end up running the ball more. They did take the ball. That did not come up today, did it? I'm sorry? That didn't come up today, did it? From what, one of the three MP chairs? Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Did he come up from one of the three empty chairs? I don't think the three empty chairs did. Oh, my God. Enough already. Enough. Go ahead. What were you saying? No, I was just going to say that the one thing that you're talking about is the fact that the coach made it clear he didn't like the way the offense was being called. Well, look, do I think he came to that realization after they laid one on the Chargers on the road or, you know, after they blew out Vegas in the first, I mean, they're rolling up offense and they lose at the end of the game against the Bears. No, I don't think he's thinking that way then. I think it's probably been in the back of his mind, but they were so successful last year. At what point did you want him to go to Cliff? And by the way, I think he went to Cliff a few times and said, you know, remember, he basically said, you're not running Jaden anymore when he came back for the Minnesota game. There were no zone reads. There were no called, you know, designed runs. So there was some of that. And I think they ran the ball a little bit more as the season went along. I do find this interesting. Washington's balance was like basically top five in the league in terms of their run-pass balance. So a lot of that stuff gets the numbers tell a different story. But But at what point, when Jaden was out and Marcus was in, Marcus was so much more comfortable in Cliff's offense than he would have been under center, more so than even Jaden. I just don't know when you would have done that. And with the players that were available to do it with, I just don't think it should have been a priority. So if it was the players and they're going to get new players, Why change it? In other words, if the players were the problem because they didn't have healthy players, and now they're going to have healthy players and some new players, why get rid of Kingsbury and why change the offense? Because it worked so well the year before. Well, it did work so well the year before, but it's not his preference anymore. He's allowed to change his mind as the head coach. he better be right pretty late apparently well thank god he didn't come to that conclusion during the first year that's true I mean there's a possibility that you know as you're going through that year and Jaden's taking some shots maybe he's like man I'd rather see him under center a little bit more I'd rather see what Kyle ran for me you know in Atlanta when we went to the Super Bowl but fortunately he didn't try to change it up then because it was an elite level offense in 2024. Look, I think he had in his mind at some point, I can't tell you when, you know, I'd like the opportunity to see an offense with Jaden under center more, more play action pass, more run married to play action pass, which by the way is my preference too personally, but Cliff's offense worked very well also. and I think Jaden's going to absolutely kill it in that kind of style of offense. But they'll still have some cliff elements to the offense. He's very creative and they'll have some of those elements too. It'll be a happy, you know, Tommy marriage of all of these great offensive minds all in David Blau's head. He's going to bring it all together and they're going to be really good next year in offense. Sean McRae you know what there are people around the league that think he might be I know I know so alright you got anything else I got nothing else for you boss okay this was fun appreciate it I'll talk to you on Thursday okay I'll see you on Thursday