334: We Nailed the Math!

Hey guys, this is Kishore. Is this the TechPod IT hotline? Yeah, what do you need help with? I'm having a kind of unusual problem. I can't quite get Outlook to work up here. Well, that Outlook is not, it doesn't really work anymore. It's not a thing people use, I'm sorry. But I'm using a Surface Pro. Shouldn't Outlook just work on a Microsoft product? Which, is it old Outlook or is it new Outlook? Oh, how do you tell? It's ugly. Does that help? No, that's just Outlook. That's not supposed to be. Let's see, how many copies of Outlook do you have running at this moment? I have two open and there's so many instances listed in the Task Manager, I don't know what to do. Let me call Brad over at the IT console, see if he has a script you can run. It says here that we don't support Outlook in low-Earth orbit, actually. I'm sure that Outlook was to be used for entertainment purposes only. It's like all Microsoft products, it's Outlook is only for entertainment, not for real use. Yeah, Space Man, the Final Frontier, the IT channels of the Starship Intrepid. No, that's not it. What is it, Intrepid? I don't know what you're talking about. What's the name for the capsule? Orion is the capsule. Well, but that's the brand, they named it. The specific one has a name? Yeah. I don't know. Hold on, I've listened to this literally a thousand times over the last week and I don't remember what they call it. It's not on the website either. It's almost like they might have relied on Co-Pilot to build this website in addition to Outlook to send emails. Yeah, so we're going to talk about Span. Well, hold on, we'll do that in the intro. Kishore, welcome to the show. It's good to have you here. Yeah, it's great to be back and good to be back on Norman Will Make a Tech Pod. Oh, no, that was last week. Oh, no, no, it's somebody else. Replace that quickly. Oh, the dulcet tones are back, I feel at home. Yeah, we welcome back, Brad, but it's good to have you back. I'm here and slightly more cyber than when I left. Its integrity is the name of the capsule, just FYI, not Intrepid. So yeah, the integrity, but we'll talk about it. But yeah, let's, I mean, look, we have a lot of stuff to talk about. Let's just start the show. Welcome to Brent Will Made a Tech Pod. I'm Will. I'm Brad. And joining us today as you guess from the cold open is one Kishore Hari. Welcome back to the show, Kishore. It's great to be back and good to be back in a, in a moment of scientific achievement. Yeah, I think that's kind of what we said when we were like, should we do an Artemis episode this week? And like, I think it was, I actually was just like, you know, it'd be nice to have a topic that's just kind of uplifting for once. Yeah, we, we, well, and Kishore, you were for a while the harbinger of doom when you came on the show. So it's exciting to have you here to talk about something fun for a change. Hey, it's only early in the podcast. Like there do might still come for us all before the end. I've got, I'm fine. I managed to, I managed to sneak a little bit of cynicism into the show notes. So we'll see. Yeah. So we're going to talk about Artemis 2 today. You know, and there's a lot around Artemis that's hinky, I guess, from a politics sense, like we're defunding science across the, the entire federal government and spending a ton of money going to the moon, which people have questions about. I, I'm excited about going back to the moon for a whole multitude of reasons. Most of them not related to politics. But yeah, I'm curious kind of like, this is the first crude SLS flight, which I, if you'd asked me 10 years ago, if I thought was going to happen, I would have probably said it's, they're never going to launch an SLS rocket because it seemed like a congressionally created boondoggle designed to fail. So like, I guess this is a victory. It's like, it's like this is US rockets taking astronauts to space, not on private stuff and, and going beyond low earth orbit for the first time in my lifetime, like literally my lifetime. I walked out last Thursday night with my daughter and I looked up and my wife and I looked up at the stars and I said, Hey, kiddo, you and I have something in common that, that today is the first day we can look up at the moon and see people on the way to the moon in our lives. She's like, wait, that's never happened to you before. I was like, no, they went in 1972. I wasn't born yet. So, um, yeah, it's wild. I have to admit, I was caught off guard by this in the sense of how I reacted to it because I also shared some cynicism. Like Artemis has been plagued by delays and interference, like technical delays with like the rocket design. There's been a lot of issues with the SLS rocket stage having, you know, hydrogen leaks and, you know, it's been three years since there's, there's really been launches and just really a giant rocket sitting on a pad for a long time. And so it was hard to imagine getting here where we have some really amazing crewed flights, but I was caught up in the emotion of it. And it's partially because, you know, I saw Project Hail Mary a week ago and I was caught up in the hope core of that moment. And then you hear the astronauts talk and you're like, damn, they are better than me. They are so cool. They are so uplifting and they recognize just the wonder of the trip. Now that isn't to say that this trip isn't fueled by politics, just like Apollo was. Apollo was sent because of the space race and the, and Yuri Gagarin making it to space and that fueled all of the resources that poured into the Apollo mission. We're not in a terribly different place here. This is largely fueled in part by China and Russia making trips to the South Pole of the moon via robotic landers. And in China's case, after the success of the Chang'e mission a couple of years ago, actually having a plan in the next 15 years to land a crew on in the South Pole of the moon. This is part of the politics of the space race that has been that was true in the Apollo mission and now you're at the in Artemis. But at the same time, it just feels incredible to see this kind of human achievement take hold. You know, it feels a little different than Apollo. Like I've seen from Earth to the moon. So I assume that everybody is going to the South Pole of the moon because they're big fans. But is that it? Or is there some other reason they want to be on the South Pole? The South Pole of the moon is the one that is the most shaded. So you'll generally have two weeks of sunlight, two weeks of darkness at the South Pole. It's the most likely spot when we have science to verify this where there'll be water ice. So if you're looking to have a habitat on the moon and you need water to help sustain you know, humans living there to split into hydrogen and oxygen to make fuel and breathable atmosphere, that's going to be the place to go. There's also indication from numerous probes that that is where helium three exists on the moon. Helium three is not something that that exists in significant supply here on Earth and we can't make it and is a key component to things like medical imaging. And it is a tremendous resource that many countries are interested in developing technology to to mine and return to the Earth. You also need that to trigger the mass relay drives. Sorry, I recall right. That's important. Right. We get that. That's why we have to get to Mars to get all that protein tech so we can do in faster room. Actually, I was going to ask, I pulled out there's a Wikipedia page entitled Space Policy of the First Trump Administration, which basically has the text of all the various space policy directives that were issued several years ago. So in addition to the kind of low key saber rattling you're talking about toward like China and Russia, there's like there's a lot of language in these directives about investors, private industry, space commerce, etc. etc. You can plus, you know, all the privatization going on around SpaceX and Blue Origin, all these companies like is extraction and like kind of paving the way for private commercial interests, do you think also maybe a secondary driving force here or is this where my cynicism is too much? It's hard to tease it all out because we've seen a lot of plans from the administration around what the next 10 years of Artemis will look like. But those plans are really dynamic and they're clearly omitting, you know, elements of it. It is. Remember the South Park episode called Under Panes Nomes? Where it's a question mark in the middle and it's like land on the moon and then profit. There's like, ah, yes. Oh, exactly. And like the plans are much better than that. And, you know, I don't want you to think there's nothing in that question mark space, but there is a lot of question marks. So just like really briefly, like already Artemis is an example of public private partnership. Like when you look at SLS, that isn't something NASA just made. It's like Boeing and Northrop Grumman and all of these defense contractors. They have plans for a lunar landing module that's there's competing designs from Blue Origin and SpaceX. They have designs for building a habitat on the moon and there's numerous companies all working together on that. There's collaborations with the Canadian Space Agency on a robotic arm that's going to be key to docking the lunar lander to the space module. There is the European Space Agency is making elements of the habitat. The Japanese Space Agency is making elements of this. So it's a really complicated weave that's much more global in nature than what we experienced with the Apollo. But I think a key element of the through line of what we've heard from the administration is we have to go faster. We have to do this much cheaper than how NASA has approached these missions in the past. And we have to do it with the support of public private partnerships, which opens up the door to what you're saying about resource extraction. But I think the main goal that I read is like we need to get. Boots on the ground in these places because to establish like US, you know, Providence lack of a better term on the area. OK, so good and bad mixed together. The DLDR there. Yeah, I think we could save this for later. But I there was a scientific American ran a pretty good article about some astronomical opportunities on the moon, which are kind of downstream of like, hey, there's a lot of money suddenly to get back to the moon on a regular basis. And so at least there, you know, science will pee back onto these other interests as it always has. But we can get to that toward the end. Yeah, I don't I mean, if you watch the the Artemis press conference from a few years ago, where the NASA administrator and not a few years ago last year that got up there and laid out the vision for this. It's permanent human settlement where every six months there's a mission going up there. And with that is going to open up all sorts of opportunities for new kinds of science, because we'll be beyond the kind of atmospheric disturbance of the Earth to do different kinds of radio and other kinds of astronomy. Now, it's not the only option, but you can do some really cool stuff up there. But the first step is like, we have to be able to build you know, a permanent sort of outputs there to to fuel that kind of work. Two things on the uplifting quality of this whole like like the what you just described, like I just kind of put myself in the mental place of, say, three years from now. Or maybe it's more than three years, but not too many years. Like the idea of a launch happening every six months and just knowing there are people up there all the time, like just kind of filled me with a little sense of like, oh, man, like, well, good, good, forward-looking things are still possible. Like I I hope to live in a world like that. It's it's I mean, you think about how normal people living on the ISS has become over the last 25 years, right? Twenty six years, like people have lived constantly in space for for, you know, 25 years, which is when we were kids, when we were young, was was unthinkable. You know, they were doing three space shuttle launches a year and there were a couple of Russian guys that were stuck on mirror at any given time. And and like. You know, it was unusual to have space be constantly have habituated, habitated, like it's too early for long words. Should we so OK, so this is the second Artemis flight. The first one was uncrewed. It was just to go around orbit the moon for a while and then come back. And they were doing things like collecting radiation data and testing the the ablative heat shields and like testing whether the rocket could get there and back. This one, this one is a different trajectory. This one, they just did a free return. So like I played enough curbled to understand how this works. You fire a big rocket to leave or form it. You zoop around the planet of the moon once and then you come back faster than you than you got there thanks to the miracle of gravity wells. And hope and if we were recording this on Friday morning, if everything goes well this evening at a predetermined 6 32 p.m. Pacific time, I think they are they're going to hit the atmosphere, absorb a lot of heat and splash down off the coast of San Diego after six minutes of radio blackout and and, you know, burning off 20,000 and sorry, 5,000 miles per hour of speed or something like that. I can't remember how fast they're going at the at the at the at the actual when they hit the atmosphere. But yeah, so. Like this is this is there's a bunch of things that happen for the first time on this one is that it's the first time. Well, a it's the furthest people have been from Earth. They broke the Apollo 13 record set by Jim Lovell and the crew there. It's the first time we've sent people beyond low earth orbit in in 52 53 years, 54 years, there's like a ton of firsts on the crew. It's like first person of color, first woman, first non-American and oldest person all to to I mean, they didn't land on the moon, but to orbit or be that far to go there. Yeah, actually, real quick, if I could jump in, I meant to mention earlier with the crew, do you do you have any sense of what their backgrounds are? Because like the Apollo missions were so uniformly like test pilots, you know, kind of like rocket jockey, former military types that I mean, I guess, I guess we've got the space shuttle program to draw on already there for for the types of candidates they've looked for for space missions. A lot of them unusual. Yeah, a lot of them have backgrounds in like systems and flight engineering on on on this. And like Christina Koch, who has is a became an astronaut, I think I want to say like 10 years ago, and already holds the record for longest single space flight by a woman. So she's been on the ISS for a long period of time. Jeremy Hansen from the Canadian Space Agency and he's a fighter pilot. Victor Glover is like, you know, a big aeronautical engineer background. So and then later, like three out of four of them were fighter pilots or space pilots still doing very similar to early Apollo. But this mission is as will kind of laid out is is the trial run. So we're not going to send like scientists necessarily up for this. Like you want more of the engineering types that are going to kind of put the the systems through the the paces. Like it will to you to your kind of point on on the timeline of this. Like this is really like an amazing feat in terms of it's a 10 day mission, which is I like I knew it was a 10 day mission. But the actual feeling of it being on Earth and like getting updates every day for 10 days is pretty remarkable in terms of how like I experienced that because we weren't alive during Apollo to actually experience that kind of real time. We always like like learn about it in like a two hour documentary or in this condensed format. So we're really getting that experience of what it actually feels like in real time to travel to the moon. And I think that's what Artemis two is really kind of conveying. And then Artemis three is actually not going back to the moon. It's actually going to do low Earth orbit maneuvers where they're going to actually dock modules together to see if we can actually have like like a lunar module come off and then land. And then Artemis four, which is tentatively 28, maybe 29 is actually going to land a module on the moon. And then they're hoping like 20, 32, somewhere around there is when we're going to start to see those regular flights starting every like six months to 12 months. But all that's really fungible. But this is really the big marker that we can do this, that we can make the flight there and back safely. Hey, the the rocket's work, how much juice is left in the SLS when it when it gets to that high Earth orbit? You know, like they were talking last night, there was a press conference last night that they broadcast. And somebody might have been Eric Berger from from ours asked about how much they think they're going to get people to get out of the SLS per stage, because like this is it's a really huge rocket. It's first stage don't to or to high orbit, it seems like, which is crazy. And and it seems like there might be more possibility to use it even for more of the the the higher to boost the orbit before they cut it loose. Just to give people a sense of scale, ISS is at four hundred kilometers above the ground, generally four hundred to four hundred twenty, I think is the is the kind of elliptical. The moon is three hundred and eighty four thousand four hundred kilometers away on average. So I've been struggling the last few days because I learned all of these distances in miles as a kid. Yeah, like I know two hundred and fifty thousand miles, ninety three million miles, and now everybody is slowly converting to metric. And I'm having to I'm having to like relearn all my fancy numbers. Brad, get with the program. We're talking to you. Yeah, come on. We're a kilometer crew over here now. We're talking about space. I'm going to start. I got to learn the calculation in my head. I do. I do it in light nanoseconds. I don't I don't work in I work in in universal speeds. Anyway, so OK, so they went there. Other first first toilet past low earth orbit. That's been kind of a mixed bag, it seems like. Wait, I'm sorry. What did Apollo use? They used bags and hoses. Ah, yeah, they went in bags. So full on camping effect. Let's talk about the toilet really briefly. I know we're still going through first. The toilet thing, which has gotten a ton of press, is is kind of interesting to me because like they thought they knew the problem. But we now it's come out that they don't know what the situation is. So like the toilets function, but they can't vent them. So they're getting backed up. And so they initially thought that maybe some ice was forming on the vent. And so they actually did a maneuver to turn the ship towards the sun. And they use some like heating elements on the outside to melt some ice. And they saw some signs of like of some ice probably like urine coming out. But now it continues to sort of be a problem. So they're actually not sure what's happening. Like the latest theory is that there's some biofilms that are developing that are actually clogging some filters in the toilet. So space toilet still unsettled. Mix bag. The the fun thing about that is last night when they were packing things up, I heard the mask mission control. Hey, how do you want to sleep the toilet? They were like, leave it as it is because we want to be able to study it when you guys get back. Anyway, other first let's see. The first solar eclipse from space, I think, which those pictures are unbelievable. I want to see the high res of those. Like I think that's I think that's the high points. I think like the thing, the thing you hit this earlier, the thing that I didn't expect out of this. Well, oh, it's the first mission they've live streamed almost the entire thing. Yeah, so that's the thing I really wanted to ask you guys. If we don't have to do a ton on this, because most everybody but me has followed this stuff, but the launch happened like when I was being discharged from the hospital last week after this next surgery. And I was like drugged for a couple of days. Like the point is, I totally missed the launch. I missed like all the fanfare around. And I'm really curious because obviously the world of 1972 was extremely different in telecommunications terms from now. Like I know they live streamed the whole thing, but I'm really curious. Like what was the experience on the ground of following this in terms of what NASA made available and like cool, cool leveraging of modern streaming tech and cameras and stuff like that. It's been unbelievable. I mean, just just to be clear, they live stream the launch. They live stream almost all the launches. Everybody does that. That's old hat. The thing that I've never seen before is that they had a 24 seven live stream going on YouTube or maybe not 24 seven. I think they take breaks when the crew's asleep at night. But basically it's like the big brother house. Like the like they have a camera in the in the cabin. They have a camera is mounted on the solar on the wings of the solar's go pros. And they're giving you a feed of that or mission control or the inside of the cabin at any given moment throughout the day. And and they're overlaying the mission control, the back and forth mission control on top of that, as well as occasionally having like the NASA. Like I don't know what their role is, but they're essentially the NASA streamer. It comes on as like, yo, what up chat? We're today we're talking about you know, solar heating on the left side of the panel. They break down stuff like the toilet. They run NASA promotional videos like sometimes during breaks last night. They showed an older video of the crew tasting food. They had a whole package about how food on the space on the on the Artemis and space station work and how they decide what meals to pack and stuff like that. By the way, Kishore, you'll like this. One of the more common breakfasts, vegetable quiche. Oh, nice. Yeah. See, the answer just better than us. They have good taste. Yeah. But it's it's been it's been like it's it's something I've left on in the background all day while I'm sitting at my computer working just because it's it's absolutely fascinating to get this glimpse. And it was you correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't I watched the launch. I didn't watch a lot of the stuff post launch. And then I tuned in when I realized they were doing the lunar flyby. And they were streaming it. And like there were a hundred and twenty thousand or hundred and fifty thousand people watching on Twitch that day. It was and it was incredible like we were getting incredible footage. And you got to see how they actually worked rather than just the output of that work, which was the best part. Yeah, I think the difference for me is sort of twofold. Like first, this is the first, you know, crude launch of this scale that is in the kind of attention economy that we exist in. So as much as there is the feeds that will describe from NASA itself and inside the ship, there's also all like the the influencers and the science communicators also doing their kind of breakdown and reaction. So no matter like where you go, there is a proliferation. Whereas I think in the 60s and 70s, you you watch like Walter Cronkite, like talk about what was happening, you know, once a day. And so we're getting a real kind of intimate view in with voices that kind of resonate with you. So it's sort of like a choose your own adventure of the communication. So it's just more and like and how you want it. I also think like the tech inside is dramatically different. We're not dealing with like, you know, the camera, like if you remember from the Apollo 13 movie, like, you know, you saw the cameras that they had, you know, the old school kind of film based kind of systems. We have a lot of tech on board this ship that is different. And maybe we should talk about that for a second. Yeah, it's that's been getting the glimpse of that. We joked about it that the cold open without Lookbit. But like they had an IT call because somebody one of their computers, they think they call them personal personal PTVs or personal communication systems are surface pros that are seemingly tethered hardwired, but they also have Wi-Fi on board, which is wild. One of the Wi-Fi industry blogs that I that pops with my feed had a, yo, Wi-Fi has been on the other side of the moon. It's been farther away than anybody else in history. They use Wi gig to communicate with the with the with the service module, the ESA service module, presumably after it disconnects so that they can get feeds from it back onto the capsule, because it obviously doesn't come back to earth. It just burns up in the atmosphere. They're let's see, they have they have phones for the first time. They're there. They gave them NASA issued them iPhone 17 Pro Max's a few months ago. They did a speed qual on it, presumably the Apple said they didn't work with them directly, but presumably like they have all sorts of rules about batteries and stuff like that. So they when they test a batch of batteries, if they have one failure in a batch, that entire batch gets canned and they they go to a reliable batch. Do you think they paid for the memory upgrade? I would assume so. Yeah. Also, well, they don't have storage up there. So I am fine with my tax dollars being used for that. But the phones aren't internet devices. They're just using them for note taking and photos. Like, yeah, cabin photos and videos and stuff like that. Right. Like the cameras on. Well, I mean, say what you want them out about about the amount of like post-processing that Apple does on the photos and how like quote unquote real the photos are. But like those things have amazing cameras on them, right? So like, well, it seems like a good vehicle for documenting things. And from judging from listening, they've talked about so they to get the photos off of those, they plug them into their into their surface pros. So presumably iTunes has been to the far side of the moon now. And they're dumping them over the wire and then they get picked up with the with the PTV dumps when that happens every once in a while. I can jump in with a neat trick for you if you're on Windows and have Apple devices. They have split out. There's a there's an app on the Microsoft Store called Apple devices now. That splits out all the like, here's what you need to plug an Apple device into Windows to get things off of it functionality from iTunes. So that's fantastic. There's a smaller app now called Apple devices that you can use just to do the phone stuff if you don't care about all the. So hopefully they've got that. In case the astronauts are listening, I want them to make the IT call to being like, I want to install this third party app. What's the administrator password for my surface pro? Can you read it out over the air, please? They use they use it seems like they use a lot of scripts. They have a lot of scripting stuff set up to do the automated tasks. Because often the astronauts will ask, hey, we're having this problem. Should we run this script? And they'll and then they'll say, let's we're checking. You know, there's a fascinating tenor to the communication in general, where there's one person they talk to at Mission Control. And then that person serves as the kind of like the many armed octopus for whatever information they need on the station on the on the on the in the capsule in in a matter of moments sometimes like they'll they'll ask a question. And before the the CAPCOM gets back to them and say, OK, we got the question. We're checking on it. That they'll be like, OK, we got the answer. Here you go. Do this. So OK, so computers, phones, they they everything has Velcro because their pants all have Velcro on them. That's how they keep things close to them, obviously. There's they have a bunch of cameras, obviously. They brought a bunch of digital cameras this time. So there's 28 total cameras on board, which is just insane. Fifteen of them are mounted on the actual Orion vehicle. And these are like, you know, the external cameras, the the ones that are focused on like monitoring their health. There's a high speed camera mounted to it. But there's 13 cameras inside that they have a lot more control of, which is really interesting. And like, you know, four of those are like the actual personal computing devices that we talked about that have webcams. And so like I hesitate to call those cameras, but they're they're cameras. There's four wireless cameras on board for the Nat Geo Disney documentary that they're doing on this. So there's a lot of footage we haven't seen yet that's going to come out in the next year or so. But I think what's interesting is they have two Nikon D5 DSLRs, which a lot of like the beautiful imagery that we're seeing that's like clearly taken by the astronauts, they're using the old D5, which I think came out a decade ago now. 2016. Yeah. Yeah. Not even using a mirrorless. They're going like for a full DSLR body for this, because that's what NASA approved. It's been really fun. This is definitely not my domain, but it's been fun watching camera nerds on like Blue Sky talk about like the Hasselblad that were used on the Apollo, you know, and people kind of speaking in hush tones about all these like 50 year old camera designs and what they're using now and stuff. It's like a fun a fun subset of this thing. Well, so they use the Hasselblad because they were full frames. You had a lot of resolution on the on the on the film. And, you know, there's still some Hasselblad photos, I believe, from the Apollo days that haven't been developed yet or haven't been really treated yet. There was some confusion. So New York Times and ours said they're using D5s. I've seen a bunch of photo blogs say they're using Z9s, which are mirrorless. I think the reason they use the D9s, sorry, the D5s is because they have that mirror. So you actually are getting eyeballs on the thing that you're looking at through the viewfinder, like that's the that's the that's the reason they use those. Because then they also essentially have with an 80. It seems like they like an eighty four hundred millimeter zoom for the for the moonshots. And that gives them essentially a four hundred mil telescope that they can look through with their eyes that's handheld, right? I heard a much more kind of pedantic reason why is so NASA has an agreement with Nikon for the cameras. So like they had to bring a Nikon camera aboard. And I heard kind of behind the scenes, they chose the D5 because they've flown with the D5 before. And so they're like, let's not mess around. Let's just take the D5 up. And so I think the Z9 might be in the future, but they're using the D5. Everybody who's flown on the space station, which I think is three of the four astronauts has handled the D5 and knows how to use it, because that's what they've had there for years and years. So during the flyby, during the lunar flyby, they got 4,000 kilometers from the surface of the moon. And it was they had a process set up. It was if you like, I think we'll put the schedule in the show notes, but the full like breakdown hour by hour of the schedule for the flight is in there. And they were doing two people on two people off. So essentially two people were card wrangling and dealing with spaceship and dealing with like making sure the files came up and were annotated properly. And then two people were up by the windows with a shroud behind them to keep glare off of their windows. And one was operating a camera shot at them aimed at the moon and describing physically what they saw with each shot. So what their eyes saw versus what the camera was taking, they're capturing the images and then they're talking through what they were able to see. They're talking about things like colors on the rims of craters and things like that that maybe don't come through in the photos. And the other person was there taking notes for each shot that was taken and all constantly as they went. And it was it was absolutely fascinating to watch that process, because it was it was a testament to a thing that like I know from working on tested and I know from working on different things over the years that the human the you're you're going to capture stuff with your human experience that you don't that it doesn't get captured in the recordings, doesn't have captured in the photos. And they built NASA because their NASA built a process to capture that part of it, too, which I don't recall ever hearing or seeing like like during the Apollo, the 50th anniversary of the Apollo missions. I loved watching those live those the live streams of the mission control back and forth with the Apollo astronauts. They just played the audio over stills from the images and you get you get an experience of what, you know, like what it's like when when Jim Lovell and Ben, I can't remember the guy whose name who shot Earthrise. But when they when they realized they had a good photo there that wasn't scheduled and he was like, hey, Jim, pass me some. I need some film. I need some film color film because he had black and white film loaded in the camera as the Earth is rising over the moon when they're in orbit. And he's like, I got to get a color shot. And you can see the first shot that he took in black and white. And then you see about 15 seconds later, 20 seconds later, the moon's risen a few degrees off of the horizon. And that's how long it took him to load the color film. And meanwhile, Jim Lovell's in the background going, hey, man, you got to you got to go faster than this. You're going to miss this shot. This is an incredible shot. It's out of that window. We got to find the other window with it. So yeah, it's it's it's remarkable listening to him do this work, I think. Let's actually talk about that as a as a bridge. Like what have been your favorite moments? Because there's been so many things that have gone, you know, viral, that have like touched people because of of the meaning, like the true hope for stuff. I'm curious what both of you are taking away so far. For me, it's watching how like I love seeing how people interact with the process, right? Like just like it's good for my brain. I almost the mundanity of the day to day interspersed with the wonder of seeing a solar eclipse from the far side of the moon. And like like when they came back from the blackout period and were like, hey, we saw micro meteorite flashes on the back of the moon. Like while while we were there, we saw those with our eyes, which is something that probably the cameras aren't going to have picked up, right? It's something that you had to have human eyes there to see. That to me justifies the entire thing, right? Like that feels really good and is something that that like that. That is the reason that we send people to space. That's why we ask people to risk their lives. That's why we spend incredible amounts of money. It's why we do all the work that we do and have 100,000 people on the ground building these rockets and spacecraft and and and all that. And and that to me is exciting. Also, the Nutella was good. We'll get to the Nutella in a second. I just really quickly on the micro meteorites. The thing that got me about that is when they radioed in that they saw like I can't remember. I think it was like five of those they saw five flashes. Yeah. There was a geologist in the in mission control and they had a camera like trained towards her and you could just see her mouth just go open, just be like, oh, my God, they saw it and just like the excitement and the enthusiasm for this. This thing that like is so wondrous, but it like in the grand scheme of this mission is is small. But we got to see it for the first time. I love the humanity of that of that moment. Yeah, you Brad, speak, speak. What do you see? I like I said, I have not followed a ton of this stuff as I've been recuperating, but we certainly didn't need to send people to the moon for this. But the Carol crater stuff was pretty touching, of course. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I I enjoyed the breadth of ability to name things after people like to pay tribute in space. You know what I mean? Like there are so many craters on the moon. There are so many asteroids and comets and stars like you can. There's a much broader capacity to like honor people, different people and different walks of life and that sort of thing. I think most people probably know the story, but in case somebody doesn't, the commander of the of the ship. When they're going on the far side of the mood, they saw a crater and he radioed in that the that the crew had decided they would like to name it after his wife, who died from cancer a few years prior. And the moment that got me is when they radioed in, he spelled her name. And then all the astronauts came in and hugged him. And it's come out later that they had a meeting and they talked about this, just the four of them. And there's something really precious about that, like that they talked like, you know, essentially a week ago and it's like, we want to do this. And that the commander like kind of let that happen. That was such a moment of of humanity and beauty. And and now like, can you imagine if if you're their kid, you can like when he gets back, he's going to be able to look at the moon and remember that their mom together. That's just that's the trend. Really, mine was I didn't expect this. They have a wake up playlist and you can actually listen to it on Spotify. There's a lot of like kind of funny songs on it, like, you know, like Pink Pony Club by Chapel Roan is, you know, one of their wake up songs. But the wake up song that got me was they woke up when they were passing the furthest distance that any human had ever traveled. They got a posthumous message from Jim Lovell. And that was their wake up message. Wow. And he talked about and he passed away last year. And so Jim Lovell was the commander of Apollo 13 and Apollo 8, I think, right? Yeah. And, you know, so the Tom Hanks played him in the movie. And he's actually in the movie at the end. He salutes Tom Hanks on the aircraft carrier. And Jim Lovell is like is it like speaks in that kind of astronaut way where he where he has seen he has experienced the the overview effect of seeing Earth from space. And he gave them a message that like reinforced that. And it's just is so note perfect that he talked about the achievement, but also the the ability to like turn around and look back towards Earth in that time. So I encourage people to actually like listen to that, because I think that paired with the Earthset photo, which is basically they did an analog of the Earthrise photo, probably the most famous photo shot of Earth. They did an analog of it called Earthset, where the the Earth is setting across the moon. I think those two pair and I was not expecting that. No, it's it's been it's been kind of remarkable. I mean, it's been incredibly remarkable, the entire thing. So and I didn't I didn't expect to feel this way. And I didn't expect to feel this way from watching people work on computers. And like, you know, it's to me, it's the it's the the fact that we're humans and we're doing stuff, but we're also doing human stuff in the toilet breaks in space and you still have to eat lunch and you have to build in all the stuff. And like, like even with. There's a timeline that NASA released. There's a there's a there's like the one that they give school kids, but then they actually posted what looks like the real one with like with like blocks set aside for the National Geographic documentary every day and blocks sent aside to talk to Premier the Premier of Canada and senators and house members and all sorts of other different stuff in school children and all the stuff that the astronauts do. And they still have like a block of time in there for them to eat lunch and for them to to have some free time and, you know, for them to wind down after the long day on the lunar flyby when they're on the way back so they can like be ready for the hustle and bustle of the thing. And and just to be clear, astronauts coming back from the moon. Pack their capsule back up, just like college kids do. They had a whole bunch of big, giant, thick, hefty bags last night. They were jamming all the crap that they'd gotten out over the last ten days back into those and they were like, Hey, NASA, where do you want? Where do you want this stowed? And it's like, just put it behind the cargo net on C seven and and we'll figure it out when you get back. It's it's been it's been really, really wild to be able to watch the whole thing at that level. One other quick question about their daily rhythm or schedule. Is there a concept of like a watch at night? Like, is they all four sleep at the same time? Everybody sleeps. There's there are periods where nobody is awake to keep an eye on things. Not only are there periods where nobody's awake to keep an eye on everything. There's also periods where the the capsule rotates to maximize sun capture at different times, and that can result in situations where let's see, they can broadcast to Earth, but Earth can't broadcast back to them. Or I think vice versa. I'm not sure if it happens the other way. I've only seen it the one way. But like last night, after they went to bed, they were like, you're we're going to be in a one way communication period for a while. So like, we won't be able to talk to you all. But but like the alarms go off, you know, the like the smoke alarm went off yesterday when they were packing stuff up and it knocked up some dust, apparently. And I don't think you would have missed the smoke alarm going off. It turns out fair, even if you were asleep. My two like kind of like small moments that are going to stick with me is yesterday they reported a burning smell coming from the toilet. And no one knows what that is. And I just think like there was nothing more relatable to being like there's a weird smell coming from the toilet to like a normie like me. And God, I can't imagine like, hey, I find guys, we invented a new way to make toilets bad. I like those like small moments. And then the other thing, and this is like super nerdy me is so like when you launch a ship like this, you obviously have these like intricately plotted, you know, math equations around the orbital diagrams. But you obviously have the ability to do some like control burns to do like, you know, trajectory correction. So they've only had to do two burns to correct the trajectory. This entire mission, that's how good we got the math. And I'm like, I want to go like find like the orbital trajectory guys and like shake their hand. I'm like, that is awesome. Like we got the math so right. I don't know. Maybe I'm too Andy weird up in this moment, but I was like, we nailed the math. Well, you know, there's also the other thing that I've been trying to think about why this why this interaction, why getting to watch these interactions is so meaningful to me. And I think for me, that comes back to. It's, you know, the Gene Roddenberry vision of Star Trek is that there's no interpersonal conflict on the enterprise, right? Like everybody's working toward a common goal and they get to get along because we've worked that part of humanity out and we don't do that anymore. And and like these four people and the people on the ground at home and all that are like they come through like it shows a way to work with other people that doesn't involve conflict and doesn't involve getting upset with everybody and and trusting the people on your team to know that the thing that they're telling you is the right thing to do. And you see that both in the in the communications, but like and how the astronauts are interacting with each other. So you know, you don't get a lot of voice from the capsule. You get a lot of voice when they're talking back and forth, the mission and control. But we don't hear a lot of their interpersonal stuff. But clearly like these folks have trained together for two or three years at this point. They've known each other for a long time. I think I think Jeremy and Christina are in the same astronaut class. So they went through like initial astronaut training together. And like as a result, they have the kind of working rapport that is just it's just incredible, you know, that they have in jokes. They know each other. They finish the other sandwiches, right? It's it's it's good stuff all the way around. So we talk about the communication because this is interesting. I didn't realize that we were doing this yet. But you know, they're using DSN, the deep space network to talk to the lamp, to the to the orbiter, to the to the capsule. Because once you get beyond low earth orbit, we have to have different communication systems. So they're tasked a bunch of those big antennas that talk to things like voyager and curiosity and perseverance and all the rovers around the solar system are being used to talk to to to Artemis now. But they also have this new thing called the O2O, which is a infrared laser based array of transmitters and satellites and receivers. And they're able to get really high throughputs with that, unlike anything we've really ever seen before from space. I mean, I think it's like a really high. It's 100 gigabits per second. I think that's the theoretical maximum. I don't think they're actually doing that. Yeah, yeah. But but it seems like they're using that to dump some of the big images and and like do those. Basically, it seems like they have a way to dump data from their laptops or from their surfaces back to earth really quickly. Is that is that bidirectional, do you know? Or I assume that's probably one way. I think it's bidirectional. Oh, it is bidirectional. There's two ground stations, one's in Las Cruces, New Mexico, and one's somewhere in the desert of California. I can't remember exactly where, but they have like minimal cloud coverage so that the lasers have the best kind of least interfered with kind of line of sight to those areas. First of all, we have to start calling the system the Space Laser System. Like I know like for space lasers, man, the FSL. But what's amazing is like it is truly like a network. I think there's six different satellites that are coordinated to actually link up this delivery. There's the the O2O. There's that I think it's called the T-Bird, the LC-RD. I think there's another like LLCD. Like so there's a bunch of different relays happening up there, too. So we have somehow like taken the lessons of like Cisco networking and applied it to space by like having things route through multiple systems and before landing to their intended target. Yeah, I should say real quick, I looked at the NASA site. Like I guess currently they are getting about 260 megabits per second, which not quite not quite 100 gigabits, but that's still faster than a lot of people to some internet. 260 megabits is an order of magnitude faster than what they had before. Is like that's the TLDR. And this is that you're getting a lot more speed than they've ever had before, especially out of the DSN, which is like optimized for distance, not speed. And this is the thing they tested on Artemis One. And so this is this is sort of like the thing they knew was expecting to work really well. But this is like our first experience of the outputs of that in a kind of human way. So this is all these missions kind of build on each other in that way. OK, I have a question I've been waiting to ask you guys, and this is just a gut feeling. What do you think will happen? But this brings a bunch of threads together from this from this discussion on the subject of cameras and communications back with Earth and building on subsequent missions by the time we get to Artemis Four. Do you think we get head mount live streaming of a moonwalk? Oh, I guarantee we have live streaming of the moonwalk from from a suit, though, like for like or even I think there's cameras on the suits. You for sure. But like the live stream, like I think it like if I don't know if there's like like clear like, yeah, there would be right. They are the moon is on the moon. Never sets on the moon on the near side of the moon. The Earth never sets on the near side of the moon. Yeah, they're high 100 percent. That's what it's going to be. That's exciting. I mean, look, here's the thing. The the excitement that normal people have had. Like like I put I put this on the other night and my wife was like, why are we watching like this is a weird thing to watch, right? And I was like, no, just trust me, it's you're going to enjoy this. And she's like, did they ever, you know, just the kind of questions you get about how this works, right? How do they do this is is fascinating for somebody who doesn't really pay attention to it. So yeah, they're absolutely going to live stream the the moonwalks. I mean, I. The it's there's no like argument for doing it for privacy. NASA has to publish stuff within an X number of hours after they receive it outside of a few things like the National Geographic documentary. The. The there's no safety like in terms of danger, it's not. I mean, yes, it's incredibly dangerous to do that. It's not any more dangerous than, you know, live streaming the launch or the landing. Yeah, I meant mainly just from the standpoint of are there any more technical limitations to overcome? And I guess not. I mean, actually like getting the video from the suit back to the lander might actually I mean, if you tether it with the cable, you'd be fine, I guess. I don't know. I don't know about a wireless. I guess I guess Wi-Fi would work fine. I don't know. There's no interference there, man. You can do Wi-Fi seven. You get really 300 meters full range. Sure. Perfect. Is that the first view you want? Do you want like the kind of front facing view? Or do you want like the Apollo 11 view of Neil Armstrong coming down the ladder? Hmm. Hmm. I look. All I know. I yeah, I want the I want the view of the person coming down the ladder. I want to see I want to see the I want to see the mundanity. I want to see the work. I want to see them do the work on the moon. That's the thing I want to see. You you want the like full on like terraforming Mars, like video game, like resource allocation and building kind of a aspect of this. Like this is like a worker engine game. Like if things go well in like 10 years. I mean, yeah, like, do I am I going to watch the live feed of the landers coming down with the habitats that are unbuilt but have to be assembled by people? Probably not. But will I watch the people assemble them? Yeah, you're damn right. I will. That's good. I'm going to put that on the wall to you. And that's a thing I just I want the heightened feeling of opening Twitch and just being able to watch the perspective of somebody live walking around on another celestial body. I mean, that's. You know, that kind of speaks for itself. So I kind of like a wrap up question. Like I initially came to Artemis very skeptically, not just this mission, the whole program. It's like I think. Yeah, it's all been goofy. Like the. Yeah. Hey, we're going to use space shuttle engines, which are incredibly expensive and overengineered to be reused. And we're going to put them on these disposable boosters. It's like it starts with bad ideas. Yeah, I think the estimates are like it's like ninety three billion dollars to do this program, even though they think the next steps can be done for 20 billion. These these are, you know, insane numbers. We the the timeline is is questionable. Like there's the landers are still iffy like. Yeah, as much as we talked about the motivations, like I think one can question the motivations of like, do we really need this to practically? Have has things shifted for you after this mission? For me personally, I would feel a lot better about this if if it wasn't timed with a defunding of NASA's Earth Science and Climate Observatory kind of requirements and and a larger defunding of science across the entire United States government. Like in the Apollo era, we as a as both parties, everyone involved seem to view spending money on expanding human knowledge of the world, whether it's medical or biological or Earth Sciences or geology or physics, whatever, as a way to succeed on the global political stage. And the modern the modern conservative agenda does not seem to align with that anymore. Which which I think is a real enormous mistake on multiple levels. And that's the thing that leaves me feeling bad after this, is that. Yeah, it's great we're spending money here. There's defunding funding this and defunding all the other science is it feels a stunty to me. Stunty or like I said earlier, you know, perhaps certain interests see a lot of money to be made in the wake of of these breakthroughs. So I feel differently. And I'm surprised to say that and I'm caught up in the moment. And I think I'm caught up in the emotion of this. Oh, for sure. And so maybe a couple of weeks from now, I'll gain some perspective. But I think this is awesome. Like I know I know we're all saying it's awesome. But I think the awesome part of this is it illustrates like a really clear, simple vision of what comes next. Yeah, that people can really like grab onto and hold onto. And there's such like an element of communication and access embedded in this that I think people crave that we've seen in this last week. Now, I think that will turn to something much more mundane that like what Brad, you were saying, like we're going to turn on a Twitch stream and see some guy bolting an element of a hab together in a few years. And we'll be like, I'm going to go watch the guy playing Arc Raiders instead. Like, but I don't know. There's something exciting about the potential unity that we saw come out of this this moment of people all turning towards this kind of positive, collaborative endeavor that gets me excited about the return in a way that I wasn't just a week ago. I reserve the right to change my mind on that for all the reasons you laid out like laid out will and and more. But, you know, my I think as the Grinch so wisely said, my heart grew three sizes. I mean, they're not mutually exclusive, right? Like you can you can still you can still be skeptical of the motives and the execution and the context in which the mission is being launched and still think the ultimate outcome of it is a net good for humanity. Right. Yeah. 100 percent. I could just real quick jump in with this scientific American piece. Yeah, it was really good. Speaking of super interesting. Speaking of some some positive, universally positive kind of downstream effects of this, they all put in the show notes. They they ran a piece where again, they talked to some astronomers who were just like, wow, money just appeared out of nowhere for projects that leverage being on the moon. All of a sudden, weird, like this does not happen in space exploration. But some of the projects that are in the works or or close to even launch in one case, there is a I don't have any of the names in front of me. These projects are all named in the article, but there is a very large radio telescope that's being readied for launch. Maybe because you're nodding, you might know more about this than I do for potentially even as soon as December to be to be installed on the far side of the moon. In fact, I think all these all these projects are targeted for the far side because for the same reason that the the spacecraft lose communications on the far side. It turns out that's a really great place to shield instruments from the all the cacophonous radio chatter coming from Earth. Also, the sheer distance gives us some ability to do triangulation in a different way. So one of the the projects is an extension of the LIGO project that saw the the two kind of that that kind of witnessed gravitational waves and put sound to it. Yes. And we can essentially extend that array by the sheer distance. And having a larger bell to ring, essentially for gravitational waves from across the universe. So we get advantages from the the the, you know, being on the far side from like the radiation and getting away from the atmosphere, but also just from the distance. Sure. So yeah, that's the second project on here. I think they said that will give them the ability to detect like more mid range gravitational waves that they would never have a prayer of seeing from Earth. The benefit of doing the radio telescope on the moon is that you don't have you don't have atmospheric ionization, which blocks out certain radio frequencies. So you can see things that we can't see normally with the radius. So so the use the use of that radio telescope would be to see basically we can see the cosmic microwave background, which happened right after like the plasma started, you know, allowing light to to to bounce around. But as soon as everything turned into like a giant volume of hydrogen, there's some huge period of time where we just can't see anything before stars and galaxies started forming. And this would potentially allow us to see the very, very fade light that existed in. I think they kind of call it like the Dark Age, like a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, the kind of Dark Age after the Big Bang, where there was not much light bouncing around. It's one of my favorite terms. The court blew on plasma and if this would be a nice complement to the James Webb space telescope that's also looking at similar thing. Yeah. And so the last one, again, I don't have the name here, but the last project they they talked about in that article is a basically kind of moon scale optical interferometry telescope, which is the thing where you have telescopes in different parts of the world that all triangulate together that kind of focused all of their observations together to make one image. This would apparently be like a rover mounted version of that, where they would be able to move the mirrors around on the surface of the moon to kind of focus on different spots. That one seems wild. Yeah, that one sounds very more theoretical. I think that one might have to pull the article back. I think that was the one that's the farthest out and maybe in the earliest theoretical stages of planning. Just to be clear, the LIGO one is also wild, because the the plan for that is to drop a lander on the moon and that has two rovers in it and send the rovers out in like 45 degree angle off of each other on the edge of a crater and then shoot lasers five kilometers back to the rover. So you have a triangle of lasers and because the moon is is seismically inert and there's no atmosphere, that'll just work. They don't have to build like an enormous underground complex or anything like that like they did with LIGO here on on Earth. So there's a lot of weirdly beneficial qualities about the moon, it feels like. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a hot style of place, but there are some like really interesting problems that I think are more in the engineering world than the science world. Like there's this really great video NASA did on like the future of building the the kind of hub on the on the moon. And they talked about things like power. So we're going to have to have nuclear power sources up there because there isn't enough light. They're going to have to have some element of solar and the battery storage and what that looks like. They're even talking about using the moon regolith and potentially building something that would be akin to a 3D printer where you'd actually be able to center some of the material together and use that to help form structures. So there's some really wild engineering that is ahead of all of this. And they're actually building a a lunar rover that is very much out of the Martian that you that will have atmosphere in it at normal ambient temperatures. So you could just be out of a suit in your T-shirt and hang out in. And so none of this stuff has been built yet. So it's it's still science fiction, but it's all possible because it's in the world of engineering. It's not in the world of scientific research. There's nothing needed to make it happen beyond the will and the money. It's interesting. The other thing that's interesting about the moon is that it is like it seems like a phenomenally far distance from us because, you know, we were used to Earth scale where 25,000 miles is the is the the circumference of the planet. The moon is 250,000 kilometers away. Mars averages 20. Sorry, miles away. Sorry. I mean, Mars averages 140 million miles away. So it's, you know, significantly further. It's an 18 month trip instead of a 10 day trip round trip. 18 month one way trip just to be clear. So, yeah, it's it's like it's the idea of using it as a stepping stone and learning how to do the hard part of living in this hostile environment. Some place that's only 10 days away seems like it makes sense to me. I don't know. I'm not a scientist. I will give one piece of advice. And this is my pushback. Like I know it's natural to think that this is a stepping stone to Mars. I don't believe that for a second. Like I understand there's like elements of like radiation shielding and like building structures and power and all this kind of stuff that would help us. I think they're fundamentally really different problem spaces that while some of the learning will help, I think our imagination naturally goes there and I am really resisting that because I think the problem space is pretty dynamically different. Like just in terms of scale and scope, temperature, atmosphere, like distance, radiation, like there's some real like things on the table that make the the the journey, let alone the landing, much much more different problem spaces. OK. So I mean, I think that's as good a place as any to wrap it up. If if if we got to talk about Nutella, we probably talk about Nutella. There were a couple of meme worthy moments early on in the flight. And one of them was when I think Christina Cook was packing up a lunch, like she was packing up stuff after they had a shared meal, because they do book them most days as shared lunch, where they can all sit down and eat together and have a moment to kind of chat and conference. Conference is what NASA says whenever whenever people need to talk to each other. And as she was packing up a jar of what just looked like normal ass Nutella broke loose and floated across the cabin and went to the other side. And then a little while later, I think mission control had to tell them, hey, go get the Nutella from over on such and such part of the cabin. But the internet like what we learned when we went to when we went to Houston to eat space food a long time ago with tested. They do a lot of like flatbreads and tortillas and and and and pizzas and stuff like that with some sort of food based goo smeared on them so they can stick stuff into it. Some kind of cohesion, I guess, like rice is maybe not the best idea. But they I think they said rice pilaf is one of the more common things that they eat. I kind of wonder if it's sticky enough. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's everything has to be a certain amount of goopy. But they do a lot of sandwiches where they where they take a piece of flatbread and smear something on it and then stick something else in that something. So apparently Nutella is a popular item for that because, you know, who doesn't love Nutella? I think we heard from Chris Hadfield a bunch of times, the Canadian astronaut about how much like things smell and taste different aboard. Just because of the confined space and the and the way that things work. So reduced pressure and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of different factors. But I think the funny thing is like Nutella in the company immediately took to Instagram and like rebranded, like now enjoyed in space. And then like people have been calculating like the cost of that jar of Nutella based on like how much fuel we're spending per kilogram. And so probably like a thousand dollar jar of Nutella. Not that we should calculate it that way. But yeah, Nutella is good everywhere is what is my takeaway. They learned in the Skylab days what happens if you don't give the astronauts good food. I don't know if you if you've if you've ever seen if you were been to the space, the Airspace Museum in D.C. and have seen the exhibit of foods served on Skylab. It was grim to the point that like three of the astronauts there at one point went on strike because they were they were sick of working seven days a week and eating garbage food. Those people, those folks never flew again, weirdly, but they just turned off the radio one day, a couple of days, apparently. Wow. The. Yeah, the food stuff is fascinating. There was a good video on the live stream last night during one of the down times where they where they went to the food lab and they showed them astronauts tasting all the different foods and deciding which stuff they liked, which stuff they eat, if they were told they had to and which stuff they would never eat, no matter what. And I think they said there are one hundred and eighty nine unique menu items and ten different beverages on the on this flight. So there's a lot of food and a lot of food variety. They're not just eating, you know, space, roll. That's like a cheesecake factory size. That's too much. That's too much food. And on that note, I guess that's it. Oh, let's see anything else. The Lander Systems Update, ours had a really good article that went up the second day of this mission where Eric Berger interviewed Lori Glaze, who's a director, associate director, I guess, assistant director. I can't remember about what's going on with the Landers. There's two competing initiatives, one from SpaceX and one from Blue about how to Blue Origin about about building Landers. And they're both racing for the for the Artemis three, like in space docking. It's unclear to me what happens if they both are ready in time for that. Like, are they going to fire both from up there and then do a double docking? Or I guess it's naive of me to think that I assume the lander was just kind of solved already, but I guess no, definitely not. No, definitely not. And like the indications are that whoever wins that race will get the contract for like the next 10 years of flight. So it's a pretty like high stakes situation between those two companies right now. There was there was a little bit of shade in there about SpaceX not responding to PR requests from ours. And the NASA administrator was like, yeah, we know. It's like you just got to deal with it. Anyway, I guess that's it for us. Sure. Thank you as always for coming by. You got anything to plug or your. I have nothing to plug and I couldn't be happier that I have nothing to plug. Well, it's always a pleasure to have you, my friend. And thank you for coming by. We will have to have you on again sometime soon. It's always great to talk science with you. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and best of luck to the astronauts as they return. And I look forward to that picture of them emerging from the capsule in a day or two. Yeah, yeah, that's that's hopefully everything goes well in the landing. That's that's the last scary bit. Splashdown. Sorry, it's not a landing. Got to use the proper terms. Thank you so much, Kishore, for coming by. It's wonderful to see you, Brad. This is the time of the show where we thank our patrons. And encourage everyone to go to patreon.com. Slash tech pod and sign up to support the show. We do this. We do this ad free. So that means if you guys don't think we're worth five bucks a month, then we don't see any money from it. So, you know, it's it's nice, nice to get paid. It turns out that's right. Patreon.com. Slash tech pod is the is the URL. And I used to say it was like a cup of coffee, but I went to Starbucks the other day and got a cup of coffee, and it's less than a cup of coffee now. That's right. Significantly. Yes. And unlike Artemis, we are not taxpayer funded. So no, I mean, we're open to that. I guess the government grants anybody listening. Yeah, but we want to thank everybody who supports the show. 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