Welcome to Music Matters Podcast with Darrell Craig Harris, talking about all things music with celebrities, artists, music business insiders, and more. Janice McLean Deloach, how are you doing today? I'm doing okay. How are you, Darrell? Thank you for allowing me to be on your show today. Well, it's my honor. And you have such an interesting background, and you are the founder, chief executive and chairman of the Women's Songwriters Hall of Fame, which is based in Washington, D.C. You have a ceremony coming up in June, which is going to be your annual mixer induction ceremony. That's going to be June 12 and 13th in Washington, D.C. Tell me about the organization and how you founded the organization. Initially, I had a radio program for four years, and my focus was on entrepreneurship, minorities, and community. And I looked at different topics and different businesses and just how they're doing and how they fare in comparison to new statistics or old statistics. And Women's Songwriters Hall of Fame came about because I was looking at the music business as a whole, and I wanted to see how women were doing, in particular, performers and artists. And as the research started to show, there were just these alarming facts that started to stand out more than what I was looking for when I was doing the research for the radio show. And initially, I started out as a songwriter through high school. I played in the band and did music and clarinet and flute and piano and all of those things. And then there was the era of Prince, and then just it all changed. I was like, ah, music is what I want to do. And so I did pursue a career in music initially, had some family, things that had went on. And so I had to put that on the shelf for a minute, but it was always there. I never left it. And then I ended up just going in a different direction in terms of television and radio. And so in the research for the radio show, the music industry came up and we looked at just the music business overall of recording artists, songwriters, composers, engineers, audio engineers, promoters, people that are doing booking and tour managers and all of those and C-suite and managers. And so across the board, the numbers were really low. Initially, they all hovered around 2.2 percent to 2.6. And so when then you start looking at just how when we're doing in the industry overall over a certain time period. And then this particular research, we looked at the last 50 years. And so the numbers have been somewhere between 5.6 to 7.7 over that time period. They fluctuate up and down. That's startling. It's really a stark contrast when you're talking 7.7 percent for 35 to 50 years span for women overall. And then you had some instances where there were a few women who broke through, but a lot of them either had partners or their husbands or spouses who... Right. They were more like duo as our partnerships. Not necessarily for women independently in their own right. So the numbers and the research and the data just all kept pointing to the stark contrast and startling numbers that didn't look so good for women. And I thought about it more and more and more. And then I had actually one of our first honorees in the first year was Denise Williams. And she was actually on the radio show where we talked about women's songwriter. This Hall of Fame. And so for some time I went to other people. I said, listen, why don't you do this? You should do this. This is a great idea. I don't have... I was busy doing other things. And the more I tried to get other people to do it, the more they were like, I don't know. You have a background in radio. You've worked in TV. You've been a journalist. You've been an author. You know music. You've done music. Like it just doesn't make sense that you would want somebody else to do this. Also, in addition, I care about people. Right. You have the passion for the topic. And you've already done the research. And I mean, Denise Williams is a great example too because she's a powerhouse. And we've all... And we know there's certain people that we know, obviously, Aretha Whitney, people like that. But there's so much more beyond them. As you mentioned that they don't really get the light shined on them, even though they're integral. Integral in many of the songs and much of the music that we love. And it's always great to have somebody heading up the ship that really has the passion. That's what... Because it's not easy. I'm sure you've dealt with setting up the foundation, setting up a nonprofit. Going through all that is such a challenge, right? It is challenging. You're absolutely right. It's very challenging. But it's challenging in that I think the biggest issue is that sometimes these women don't understand their value. Right. And sometimes I don't think they understand really who they are and their contributions. And it is hard when you're building a foundation like this, a nonprofit like this, from the ground up, and you really understand the importance of who these women are more than they do. I mean, that's artists in general. Often artists devalue their contributions. Maybe, and I don't want to over generalize, but maybe women in particular, because often in the industry they've been sort of demeaned or not gotten, as you mentioned, not gotten the attention. So when somebody wants to shine the light on them, they don't often know how to necessarily react to that. Is that something you've found? Yeah, absolutely. We find it a lot. But I think what's happening is that, and I say that because this is hard work that we're doing. We are forging a path that has not really been in existence for a lot of these women. Right. And they come, but they don't understand without their support and their contributions. This is going to make our work even harder to do. There's so many other areas that we want to go into, education and awareness and also just support, to be a support for these women. Mentorship is part of that, a big part of your mission, I know too. Absolutely. And I love music. I love music so much. And I love these women. And it's when I look at their stories and I understand some of the things that they've gone through to be here, it is fuel for what drives us even more. But it is daunting in some ways. It is very challenging and very frustrating when you are working to open doors or widen paths and create awareness about just the legacies and the stories and the histories and the songs of some of these women that they're not supporting the vehicle, that's supporting them more. It is really frustrating. But at the end of the day, what keeps us moving forward is that we understand this is not about Janice or even Women's Songwriters Hall of Fame. It is about the mission itself, making sure that we document and we tell and we share and we elevate these stories because there are so many of them that have not been heard. You have not heard from 50% of the population in the large quantity for a long period of time. So those are all stories that are missing, that are new stories that we don't know, that are fuel for new music, that are fuel for new movies and television programs. We just had somebody reach out to us in reference to one of our past honorees and they want to use their music for an entire movie soundtrack. And they were from Poland because they understand the nature of the work that we were doing. And the sole reason they wanted to do it was because they wanted to attach a female songwriter to their project. And so the other organizations, there are other organizations that are doing the same work that we do and they've done well. But I think that women were left out of that conversation a lot. And I don't think that is because there was bias or they were women bashing. I don't think it was any of that. I think what it is is that you and I are neighbors. So if I need something, I'm going to go across the street to Darrell because he's my neighbor and I'm going to ask him. Because I don't know you're a guy, I'm going to go to another guy. Or because you were a girl, you're going to go to another girl. And I really think that the projection of how all of this has happened and why it went that way is not really a built-in bias against women. I don't think that's it at all. These are my thoughts. Yeah, they just kind of do what they know and what they have access to. Absolutely. And they don't do the maybe the work to reach beyond that. And honestly, as a musician, I've been a musician for 40 years. It's a brohood generally at the musician level, but also at the executive level. And that's been a lot of what's driven maybe that. Like you said, it's not necessarily a bias. It's just a lack of awareness and a lack of like, hey, we should pay attention to this too. Even though, again, like we have Whitney, we have, you know, we have Aretha, we have these people that we know and love, but it's even more than that. It's also growing the future and mentoring them. And if you don't, as you mentioned, if you don't tell the story and tell the legacy, that those stories get lost over time and the history gets lost. That's why it's important. Like people like Nina Simone and people like other people that are maybe they weren't pop stars, but their story is just as valid and just as important. Is that maybe a part of kind of why you guys are doing this as well? What this foundation is that you really want to make sure the stories don't get lost? Absolutely. Absolutely. Because some of them are really important stories. And one of them is La La Cope. La La Cope actually wrote the first song that Whitney Houston, You Give Good Love was written by La La Cope. Nobody knows who she is, but she is an incredible songwriter. We have Angie Stone. It's another one. Incredible songwriter. Marilyn Bergman wrote, you know, the way we were. So it just went right out of my head. And it's a time with song. Yeah, there's so many. One of your ladies too was one of the songwriters for Earth Wind and Fire. I was just reading that. Alley Willis. Exactly. People just don't they don't they don't know that, which is, I think that's why, you know, when we, when I was contacted about talking with you, and I just actually recently, I just interviewed Laura Whitmore, who she does the She Rock Awards at the Nam show. Same thing. She's really focused on empowering women, empowering young artists, especially. And I think it sets an important topic because again, like music's always sort of been a brohood of dudes. And but there's just so many women, not only singers and artists, but as you mentioned, songwriters, producers, you know, musicians, it's all it's all becoming, I think, maybe more public, which I think is awesome. It's such an important story and an important topic. Who have been some of your past nominees because it's a very prestigious list of folks that you've interacted with? It is. So that also is a testament to why we are doing what we're doing. We've had Allie Willis, as you mentioned, who'd wrote for Earth, Wind and Fire, and she actually worked with Pee Wee Herman and did a whole lot of TV commercials and things like that that you don't even know that she did. We've had Tony Basil. Tony Basil, hey, Mickey, oh, Mickey, I love that song. We have Valerie Simpson from Ashford and Simpson in her own right. Was also a really incredible songwriter that we've honored. We honored Anne Hampton Callaway. The theme song for the nanny was written by Anne Hampton Callaway, who also is an incredible songwriter in her own right. Soon he knew Bold wrote a lot of the music for Star Trek. And actually, she does a lot of music that schools practice to and use in their performances in middle and high school. So it was really interesting. I had a student that came up to me who was at our program that Soon He Knew Bold was at that year. And she was so inspired to see Soon He Knew Bold and meet her because they were playing her music in the classroom. So she got her program booklet signed. And it was really incredible to see youth energized by that. Because it is you were talking about reaching the new songwriters and singers and performers that are coming up. Well, that particular student was exactly that. So that will be a memory that they will have for a lifetime, probably. So you can't explain or describe a feeling like that. We had Crystal Waters, the Indigo Girls, who have, I just love them. They have been super supportive. Junko Yagami from Japan, Christina Shusho from Africa. This year we have Amy Honolulu from Hawaii. I always mess up her name. So I just say Amy H. And she has written a lot of music for presidential inaugurations. But she is also one of the number one songwriters in Hawaii all over the state of Hawaii. And so we... Which is a big deal because the music runs deep in Hawaii for sure. Is huge. Tell me about the importance of partnerships. You're working with the Annenberg Center for Performing Arts, the Smithsonian Institute, and other, I'm sure, other organizations. Tell me about the importance of partnerships for what you're doing and helping to get the word out about the organization. Well, partnerships really are important. I think not just with this organization, but within other organizations and opportunities, you know, just within your community. They're good for a lot of reasons. But in particular, this is about awareness and getting the word out. But also, in some way, we're hoping to elevate support that other organizations are watching and saying, well, you know, we've got a few women. Let's support these women as well, too. I mean, at the end of the day, we don't really care who's doing it. We just want these stories to be shared and to be told. And for people to be aware that these women are writing these songs, these legacies are, they do exist. And these organizations are doing the work. And Shirox is incredible. I love the work that they're doing. They're actually one of our partners. Yeah, Annenberg. We partner on statistics and we get a lot of our information from them. So it helps when we're looking at how we're moving forward and which way we want to go and how we support and who we're supporting and why we're supporting. So partnerships definitely are important in that we really want to get to a point where it's reciprocal where we're sponsoring programs or tickets or tables or whatever at their events. And we're also hoping they do the same. We really would love to see more of the music industry itself attend our program and show up and come and see the work that we're doing and then extend the knowledge branch for us to create partnerships where we can help widen doors and awareness for girls and women in C-sweets and executive levels on a management level, on a touring level. We really want to be able to do that. And so it's great that we have all these women that have done it. We have a lot of women that have been very successful at it, but I don't think as many as we could have. Yeah, I think it's important in that space too because it's important in my mind, although you're competing for resources of course in some way, but at the same point, everybody's colleagues. And I think that's important. I think it's important to create the brotherhood sisterhood where you're trying to push the whole industry forward. Through education is important. And I think that to me, that's probably maybe one of the biggest missions for your organization is educating people on these powerful women, on these very successful women, that maybe their names are not household names, but maybe they should be. What's your thought on that in the collaboration space? Because I know, as you mentioned, you'd like to work with them. The idea of being colleagues versus being competitors for resources and all that kind of thing. Absolutely. Well, we don't think of it as a competition. That's never really been our thought process at all. Our thought process has always been about how do we elevate and just getting the work done. It's never been about who we're competing with because at the end of the day, whether it's our organization or any other organization that's supporting songwriters and music in general, if we're all really supporting the songwriter and the performance artist and the composers, there is no competition. We all have the same goal. We all want the same thing. We want to see people win. So we don't look at it like that at all. And we often invite other organizations that are doing the same work that we're doing, other Hall of Fame's that are doing the same work that we're doing. We would love for them to attend. We would love to be a part of what they're doing. We really should all be working together to put our heads together to be able to figure out how to improve the industry overall for everyone. And so maybe I sound a little dreamy and you kind of have to be when you're doing the things that I'm doing. I was going to say, you sort of have to be doing what you're doing. Exactly. But the secret, I think, with us is that we like people. We love music. We love the opportunity to share these stories. And we would love to work with other companies or organizations that are doing the similar work that we're doing and those that aren't doing the same kind of work that we're doing to be able to come together as a community and move forward. Because we're looking at the landscape of the world right now and we all are very familiar with what's happening. So I don't think this is the time to be divisive, but the time to be inclusive with everyone. But you're not going to always have all those people who want to come and sing Kumbaya with you. Some of them just won't want to do that. And that's fine. They're entitled to feel that way. But at the end of the day, we want the work to get done. It doesn't matter who's doing it or why they're doing it. We all want to be in support of the songwriter themselves or music industry period. So that's where we are in that. Yeah. And I like you mentioned inclusive. And I love that when I was looking through the people that you've had past nominees and people that have joined you. I like that it's very inclusive. It's all races. It's people from around the world. It's strong, powerful, creative women from around the globe, which I think is awesome. And like you mentioned, it sort of takes a village to promote women and to promote creativity and artists in general. Can I share something? Here's a little known fact that really makes people laugh when I share these numbers with them. 41% of the people that visit our pages and our website are men, almost across the board. So that says a whole lot in itself right there. It's an organization about women, but there are a lot of men who have sisters and mothers and daughters and wives and neighbors that this information appeals to. Exactly. Yep. And so they may not be coming for their self. They're coming because they want to also see their people and their life and their community and their circles win. And even if it's just attending a webinar that talks about, how to write a song. But also we have a lot of men who have been really incredible supporters. And I'm so glad that they come and they show up every year. Because we don't hate men. I mean, I don't at all. Right. That's good. Yeah, we don't hate men. We really invite them to come. And when they come, they're really pleasantly surprised that there is something there for them too. Because music is universal. And that's the one constant with all of this. Music is universal when you're in the elevator, when you're at the doctor's office or the dentist's office or you're in a movie or you're watching TV. Some woman somewhere sat down with a piece of paper and a pen, we hope, and drafted their idea of what they thought was important enough to create for you to hear. And that's why it's important to tell those stories. Why did you write that song? Where were you when you wrote that song? What were you thinking about? What was happening in your life? What was happening in your world, your community that you wanted to reflect on? Bruce Springsteen is a great example of what's happening in the community and writing about it. So, you know. Yeah, I hear you. And it's important. And it's important to have perspectives, men and women's perspectives, not only that, but people from around the world, all races. I think that's one of the beautiful things about music is that that's a sort of a passport to explore all cultures. And it really puts you on, you know, a great song is a great song. It doesn't matter if it's a man, woman, somebody from Africa, somebody from Japan. If it doesn't matter who wrote it, as long as the music touches you, that's the most important thing. And that's always been my perspective. Well, I agree. I do. I agree with you. You know, and I don't speak for everybody within our organization as a whole, but we all share similar mindsets. Sometimes we don't, and we have our own thoughts about things on the inside. And but that's fine because you want that, that originality and that authenticity from the people that you're working with, too, because sometimes they see things I don't see. And sometimes I see things they don't see. One thing that we do agree on is that the women in the, in the dress, in, you know, and the outfits and the clothes, you know, so we are actually working on a program that will talk about stage presence for the artist. And what I love about our program is that it's a family friendly award show. We have a songwriting contest and mixture that's coming up on June, June the 12th. And that is to identify emerging artists that are songwriters that people would love to see. And we hope we'll stick around and develop into veteran songwriters. And then on Saturday night is the award show. And that is where we do get to honor all these incredible women, Tina Clark and Melissa Morgan, Amy H. We're actually doing a tribute for Helen Reddy, proctor mostly with her family. And so we also have a now, who is one of the performers, I was, I don't want to butcher their last names, but her name is now, and she's a Japanese jazz singer, and she's, she's like 30 ish, but she's incredible. So in addition to our honorees, and you'll have to go to the website www.shof.org to see all of the names, because you know, sometimes there's a lot going on up here. And I can't remember all of them right off the bat. I'll talk about that. We also have Claudia Jordan is our host coming back this year for the second year, and we're excited for her. And we have incredible presenters and performers, and we always do. And so it's really a good time. The award shows a little more formal, but it is family friendly. We have people that are from 14 years old up to 92. We have one lady who's been for the last three years, and we celebrate her birthday every year, because she's the oldest attendee that comes to Women's Songwriters Hall of Fame every year, but she just loves the stories. She loves to see these women because she's 94. So you can imagine for her, it was a time when you didn't see this kind of empowerment and support for women. And that is why she comes. She's super fascinated, you know, about it. What's some advice that you would give to young female songwriters, a couple of things that you've really learned along the way and from some of the women that you've interacted with? I have a lot of advice I'd like to say or share, but the one thing, yeah, the one thing that really rings true to me, you know, you have to be true to yourself. Sometimes people are going to be mad with you. It is never intentional when we're moving, right? But sometimes you're not going to make everybody happy, no matter how hard you try. And you have to be true to yourself at the end of the day. You do the best that you can. You give it your best shot. You work hard. You be disciplined about it. You know, try not to ruffle feathers. Do your best. But you're not going to always get it right. You're not going to always be perfect. And everybody's not going to always be happy with you and everything that you do. But at the end of the day, you get up, you put yourself in motion, and you try. And as long as you're happy with you at the end of the day, I mean, you know, as long as you're doing the right things and you mean well, then that's all that you can do. But career-wise, if you don't feel that an opportunity is the right opportunity for you, or you don't like something about those opportunities or those rooms, you can change it. You have the freedom and the thought process of addressing how you want to move, whether it's with music or anything else. And so I would say, do your best, be happy, follow your dreams and your goals. It's okay to have them. There will be some rain along the way, but there's also going to be a lot of joy and the freedom of doing what it is that you set out to do. But just do your best, try, you know, and maybe you might have that song that's going to be that historical song like a Marilyn Bergman song the way we were, that will be somebody's soundtrack for the rest of their life. And that special moment is because you created it. So the only way to know is to actually do it. Actually, all that advice I love, and that's very similar to the way I think. At first, one of the big lessons in life is not everybody's going to like you, and that's okay. You just, as you mentioned, you wake up every day, you put your pants on, you're screwing on, whatever, and you get out there and do it. That's an important lesson and great advice. Well, I love talking to you, Darrell. I really hope that I get to come back and bring some songwriters with me the next time or send them your way. And, you know, please, I want you to be in our community, and I want you to be one of our partners and collaborators. And I'm so glad that you're doing this. It is important to have these conversations and talk about the music and the work and also to the people behind it, because we all have our thoughts about things, and very rarely do we get to talk about them. So you're doing a great service to even allow us this opportunity and this platform to be able to share our thoughts. Well, it's my honor. You know, I really admire what you've accomplished. I know you have a team of people that work with you, and it takes a village to do any non-profit, but also with your mission. And I think you've done an amazing job, and I'm really honored that you would take the time to talk with me. Let everybody know how they can reach you. You mentioned the website. Let's say that one more time, and I know you're also on social media. Sure. The website is www.womensongwritershalloffame.org. It's www.womensongwriterswomen. W-O-M-E-N songwritershalloffame.org. It's also the same one all of the social medias, as well, and on YouTube, womensongwritershalloffame.org. And we hope that people will donate and volunteer, or if you have some ideas and some things on how to help us improve and grow and level up, we'd love for you to send an email. We've really got a lot of good comment and dialogue and good wishes and well wishes and good thoughts toward us for the work that we're doing. And so we really hope everybody will just embrace what we're doing, and you have to support it, because, and you know, I'm just going to be real, real clear here, money, it makes everything happen. And we are a small team, actually. We are three, four, sometimes, all volunteers, working really long hours, hard hours, because it really matters that much to us. And we know that it matters a lot to people, because the feedback tells us that all the time, the data, the comments, the emails. We've even seen where we've honored some women, and later on, those women are honored by somebody else, or something is created because of the women that we've honored, like scholarships. And so we want to continue to do this work, but we need help. We need everybody to help us. And we promise to always do our best, but we really need people to support it and share it, make it aware to people, tell them we're here. We have a lot of love for this, and we know that we have a lot of love in the community for it too. So we'll keep doing what we can. Yeah, you just keep pushing on. But you're doing a great job, and it's only going to get better. And I think, again, I admire your passion and your energy, and I appreciate you joining me. I'll make sure I reach out to you, because I have some folks I can connect you to too that might be able to help a little bit. And I'm going to include all your information in the podcast episode, the website, and how people can contact you. And hopefully we can help spread the word, which is important. Yeah, whatever you want to share, or tell people, or invite, or please, we just were so grateful and honored to be here with you today. We hope you get to see us at one of those shows soon. Right now we're in Washington, D.C., but there's talk about maybe Las Vegas or California for some future years. So we'll see how that goes. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, both are good choices. Awesome. Have a great day, Jen. All right, you too. All right, thank you. Bye. Bye.
