Why Your Trade Show ROI Is Suffering and How to Fix Your Sales Team's Booth Strategy

Welcome back to the Vault Unlocked. Most businesses don't have a lead problem. They don't even have a traffic problem. They have a system problem. And today, we're talking about one of the most overlooked and most expensive places where problems show up, trade shows. Companies are spending $50,000, $100,000, sometimes even more, to show up, set up a booth, and hope it turns into a pipeline. But there's no structure, no engagement strategy, no real conversion system behind it. So what happens? They burn money and call it brand awareness. Today's guest is Anders Boulanger, someone who spent years inside the trenches of trade shows, not just watching them, but engineering them. He's built a completely different approach, one that turns passive booths into high converting experiences, using psychology, engagement, and what he calls infotainment. We're breaking down what actually separates the booths that get ignored from the ones that generate real ROI. Let's unlock it. ["Metal Gear"] So I have to ask, or at least put out the statement, because I've seen this too many times, companies, say most companies spend at least $50,000 to go to a trade show, and then they send their worst closers or their worst people there and hoping something comes from it. But today, Anders, you have a solution for this big problem. I want to hear all that. One solution, maybe not just one, we're going to have a multi-pronged attack and look at that. I mean, 50 grand, and it depends on the industry. That could be super cheap. I've been in million dollar booths. I've been in all kinds of, and then it depends on the scale of the business that you have, right? What kind of investment you want to make. But I think one of the things that we talk about, we talk about the trade show triangle, and it's like there's different levels of exhibitors. And so many are in the bottom part of that triangle where they are what we call a booth buyer. They buy a booth, they show up, and they wait. And they buy into that myth. If you build it, they will come, which is from field of dreams. And if you believe that, your dream, and this is going to work for you, right? At a trade show. Understanding that engagement is so key. Understanding that it's going to take some energy, some being proactive. There's a lot of things that you need to do to be able to make your investment worthwhile. And those who do crack that code are getting the 3X, 4X, ROI from their trade show investment. And it's not an expense, it is an investment. So let's take a step back here. I wanted to open up with that kind of statement there, but I do want to take a back step here and go ask the question, OK, well, who's Anders? And what do you do? I just went off on you. Yeah, you're like, all right, let's get into it. No, I love it. No, I love it. But yeah, just for the audience listening, let's make sure we understand who we're speaking to and how you even found this niche in the niche. Yes. Yeah, so bit of background. When I was five years old, I got a magic set for Christmas. I became a magician, a kid magician, I guess, if you will. Paid my, well, did birthday parties, paid my way through university. I got a physics degree, went full time doing magic. And then at some point, well, around 2007, I got trained by my mentor who taught me how to do trade shows in a new and different way. And so what I became was what we call an infotainer. So I take magic, but I tell a story with it that is a marketing message. And this builds a crowd of people. It excites people. It kind of creates a peak state for people. And then we do qualification and a call to action and then lead a big crowd of people over to a demo. And we're creating MQLs, SQLs, creating opportunities. And I found a higher end that are used for that skill set. And so over the years, there's things that I'd see time and time again play out. And I'm a bit of a human A-B test. Like I'm always going, well, is this gonna work better? Is this gonna work better? And seeing what moves people and then also where, you know, exhibitors drop the ball, you know? Like where I'm doing my best, but I can only, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a drink, right? Like sometimes I'd bring them over to the demo station and I'm like, where the heck's my demo guy? Like, you know, like we can't, you know? So there were these things that I noticed and started making notes on it. We started building trainings around it. And so now I'm on the faculty for the certified trade show marketing designation that's through Exhibitor Group and Exhibitor Magazine. And so it's just kind of all of this experience is kind of culminated into, you know, the expertise that we have now. So let's talk about trade shows as a whole, because I know I have my take on trade shows. And obviously you support and, you know, do great work at trade shows. But have you seen trade shows evolve, I would say, over time, especially since we've got out of the, you know, 2020 era where trade shows came to a complete halt? Now, you know, people coming back in and you can see they're starting to pop up a lot more people are wanting to get back to them. How have they changed, I would say, in the last 10, 15 years to where they are today? For sure. If we go back 15 years ago, there was still a lot more business card, you know, fish bowls and that kind of like how the lead was acquired. I was watching video of my mentor from years ago where they'd pass out pencils and a piece of paper and you had to fill in your information on a sheet, you know, like, so they were like passing stuff out to the crowds. Like it was just, wow. So now, of course, it's more scanning, you know, as far as whether it's a QR code, whether it's the near field. But now what we're also seeing too is, you know, this scanning is getting so smart and attaching even conversations, almost like the AI conversation recording, you know, there's a company called Backtrack. So you and I came on, you could come into the booth and we could just chat and start talking about, you know, what your pain points are, all that kind of stuff. And I say, hey, can I scan your badge? And in that moment, I could scan your badge and go back in time five minutes with our conversation and that conversation then attaches to the lead. Wow. So when you think about following up in terms of relevance, right, you get all the follow up. And I guess this is a whole other point, but you want that follow up to be relevant so people open it. The big dirty secret way back when, 15 years ago, was that 75 to 80% of leads are never followed up on. Now, I think things have changed because we are more data driven. I work with mostly tech companies, so they got their tech stack and they're, you know, go to market, they got stuff figured out. And yet Swapcard, which is a company that makes these, you know, scanners and things like that, they're saying still that 70 to 75% of the leads are never downloaded. So because they can see the fact. So I like, I have trouble believing that, but that's what their stats are saying. So it's just, so it's kind of like, I thought we were past that in terms of evolution. And yet too depends on which industry. So whatever industry you're in, you know, just take that professionalism up and be those ones that are actually, you know, using those leads and following up. So that was one side of, you know, that evolution. And then the other side too is analytics. So it used to be that you, if you were the marketing person going to your CEO and they say like, you know, okay, how was this show we invested in? And you say, well, it felt slower this year. Like it's hard to go to the boardroom to these C level executives and talk about feelings, right? So nowadays there are different solutions that allow you to actually have analytics. So whether it is based off of cell phone signatures, so that you can actually heat map a booth and see where the hotspots were, how long people stayed, and you know, the impressions around the outside. We actually use a solution that it measures eyeballs. So it's AI, but it's ethical AI. There's no facial recognition, but there is facial analysis and it just makes that into numbers. So it's counting how many people walk by, how many people, what's the stop rate? How many people stop and look at the booth for 15 seconds or more? How many people come in? How long do they stay? What's their gender roughly, right? Like it's law of big numbers. Over 40, under 40 in terms of the age demographics. And then it can, there's a few, oh, and energy. So energy meaning like really happy and excited would be like 85, 90, they put a number to it and like focused and serious would be like, 65 to 70 kind of thing. So sometimes you can see the difference between what's happening in the aisle and what's happening in your booth. And if it's by a demo station, typically people are getting more serious because they're watching, you know? And if it's a cocktail hour, you know, or you're giving away booze and you're both, well, maybe it's gonna be that higher energy. So anyways, you can see all of this and now we can start testing and seeing what are we doing? Is it working or is it not? And then really applying those learnings to the next show, right? And being like- So it seems like for money, I mean, when I said, what's the difference? It's AI completely advanced. I mean, just the data that you just mentioned, I'm sure there's more data points too, but just the data there can tell you, instantaneously, is it successful? Is it not successful? I mean, when you were talking about people's facial recognition, like recognitions, and when people are coming to the booths, you'll be able to tell it, they don't even speak, right? Like does it even, does this booth itself, the aesthetically speak to the people? Are they being attracted before they even have a call or talk with the demo person or the quasi, let's call it the sales rep that's sitting at the trade show? Now, I know what you do is different, which I love, and that's why we're here, because I've never even heard of this, and I think it's awesome. I want to call it, you're the hype man at trade shows, but the hype man that has a plan and delivers results. So talk a little bit about exactly how that works and how you see companies in the sense of businesses that hire you versus don't at that same trade show, what are we seeing? Yeah, for sure. So I think what trade shows, one of my frustrations with a lot of ways that other people look at it is they're like, if we can just get more people in the booth, right? Like it's just all about that, and that is an important piece. We kind of talk about a three step model of we want to attract the people, give them a reason to stop, but we also want to connect with them, give them a reason to listen, and so often we're so caught up of the attracting thing that we're giving away coffee, like there's a barista giving away coffee in the booth, and no one's even talking to anyone in that damn line. You know, like there has to be reasons to connect and talk and just have meaningful interactions, right? Because at the end of the day, people are going to visit 14 booths or something like that on average, and are they even going to remember being at your booth? Right? And you can't buy what you don't remember. So that they attract, give them a reason to stop, the connect, give them a reason to listen, and then the convey, give them a reason to buy. And that's really where we're talking about conveying the message and the sales message that we would think about having at a booth. So oftentimes people have gaps in that, and we're not getting there, right? It's something that's a cry for attention. So what we do with our infotainment presentations is we bring all of that into one piece. And so we're kind of like a turnkey experience that we can even work in a 10 by 10 booth. So, you know, where sometimes you think, oh, I can't have an experience that I don't have enough space. Well, we come in and we start off by just entertaining to spike dopamine, right? People see that there's kind of a payoff. They want to be a part of something. So that's where that magic and the entertainment demonstrations that we have. And then once we win them over, we start then integrating in the messaging. And so what happens is they are now learning at the same time as they're being entertained, hence the term infotainment. And every time we do a new demonstration, we're taking people from point A to point B, and there's an aha moment in the middle. And that aha moment is usually where there's a something amazing happening in the magic effect, but it's also where we introduce the solution of the company we're talking about. So what's happening is they're actually inductively learning, meaning they're putting it together in their heads. They're going, ah, and they're also seeing the connection with what we're doing. And that's what creates this peak experience that people can have. And meanwhile, we're kind of cheerleading them on a little bit. We're conducting the energy. And oftentimes, I have people yelling out the company name. And this happened yesterday that someone introduced me to someone else on LinkedIn. And they said, oh, Anders was at the eFax booth. And this was the booth I was working at last week in LA. And she said, I remember that because he made us remember that. We were yelling that name out loud in the booth. And so these are those little psychological, crowd dynamics kind of stuff that we really engineer engagement in the booth. And that's where we can kind of plug in and take something that is very stagnant, very passive, people just waiting and making an event happening in the booth that people want to be a part of. And then we do the qualification. We'll ask some questions. Who's going to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, you got to, we work with the company, whatever that is, we see the hand raising. And then we take those people and we bring them over to a demo. And then we kind of just lay them, put them right in your lap. Right. I love their layups already pre-framed. Yeah. Psychological warfare, I'd like to say, but I know it's not, but it's using psychology, which I love, which is why I got into marketing and what I love about marketing. I love to go deeper into some of that psychology if you don't mind. Of like, even where did you identify that, holy moly, like, because what I'm looking at when I see this is like, there's the booth with the business who already has its people there, like the sales, the trade people there. Yeah, their booth staff. The booth staff, thank you. And then you are kind of sitting on top of that to really set the booth staff up for success. Yeah. To me, I'm like, when I think about it, like, now I even know what exists, how do you even compete? Why would I even go? Like, why would I go to a trade show and not have someone like you? I don't know what Ellen for you. I just doesn't make brain goes to, it doesn't make sense. I go, okay, like, if there's 20 people at a trade show, one of them is using psychological warfare to get more people to my booth already indirectly or directly pre-framed. So now they've already raised their hand in a way of knowing I'm interested in what this is. So my guys are not at my booth as a business owner. They're not wasting time talking to the people who shouldn't even be at the booth and they're pre-framed. We call those home runs where I come from. It does like cut to the chase. And so there's a few things happening there. One thing too is the optics of a busy booth. Right? When you have a crowd around of a booth, they're like, what's going on there? Right? They're a going concern. They have what we call creating a magnetic presence. Okay. I love this is the stuff I want to talk about. Magnetic presence. Okay. And so when I'm building a crowd, I don't care who the heck you are. You're not like, I will take a security guard if I need to. Right? Like I always say, I'm bad agnostic. You know, come on. Everyone can watch. We're all good. Let's make something happen. So I'm trying to build up that gravitational pull because we need to get past that critical mass. Right? Like if I'm talking to three people, that's almost not quite a crowd yet. It's like three company, four is a crowd. Then I get four people and now it starts having a little bit of more of a pull. Right? And so if we really break down what's going on and I'll just slow down because you want to get into the psychology. Well, I love to. Yes. Is I give, I gamify the presentation. So I give someone a chance to win $2,000. Wow. And so I fan out a fan of cash, you know, $40, $50 bills. I throw them down on the floor and then I do a magic demonstration on the floor. So I'm kneeling on the floor by all this cash and I might have one or two people watching me right now. So there's not a lot happening, but I'm on a microphone and I'm swinging for the fences, meaning I'm not playing small and not being on a microphone. I'm doing a show. Like this is a performance and they can tell by the way that I talk about it that this is going to happen. It's not like if we get enough people, we're going to do a little show here. Like that's not, that's not how it is. Yeah, I was thinking we got like Buzzer style. Yeah. And there is that. There's this street performance for corporate, you know, it's corporate street performing, I often say. So then people watch me do it. And what happens is basically I'm using a shadow and a deck of cards cuts itself. It's like, it's impressive. And it's, that's what I open with. But then I say, that's the warmup. And everyone's like, where's he going? Like, okay. So now more, a few more people are standing around. So maybe we have five or six people. They're standing shoulder to shoulder. I do a thing where I take a marker and I draw an X sharpie on my hand and we do a fist bump and everyone fist bumps all the way around. And I'm like, we're going to create some connection. And this literally does create connection in the way that all these strangers now have touched each other. But what I want them to do is I want them to, I want to congeal the artery. I want to bond them together in a sense that I don't want them to leave. I want them to bond them to me too. Right. So we're a group. So what ends up happening, the last person who had already put their hand behind their back brings their hand out, does a fist bump, opens their hand. They have the X, the X has gone off my hand. And they're like, whoa. Right. So this is all just magic at this point. This is all just entertainment. Dopamine spiking, right? Just, and there's a little bit of like, what is going on? How did this, like where am I? I'm at this booth and now all these things are happening. Then I get up on my stage and when I get up on, when I get on the stage, I get on page, meaning I bring in the scripting, what we've planned to talk about. So we built rapport on the floor and now we get on stage and get on page. So now I usually say a little something to kind of get people to be in on it. Right. And I'll say, how many, notice this is not your normal presentation. It's not a lot of PowerPoint here. Right. This is not a presentation. It's an experience. And we're going to co-create this experience, meaning it's not me doing it for you, but it's us doing it for each other. Do you want to have a good time? Say, yeah. And everyone goes, yeah. Like now they're like, yeah, let's do this. Right. Right. And then I go, take a step in. And then they come a little bit closer. And so I always want to keep them nice and close. The closer they are, the less chance they're going to leave. It's also more, everything's more impressive and their shoulder to shoulder with people. So they're feeling their energy. And so we're really architecting how they experience it. Manufacturing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of how, and then I get into the different routines, but we're just building out the crowd now and more people are stopping. Typically, the more I touch someone or interact with someone, the more interesting that is. And then at the end of the presentation, I'm going to give someone a chance to win $2,000. At that point, when I say, okay, we're going to give someone a chance to win two grand, nobody's moving a muscle now. Right. Everyone's listening. And then I can pretty much say or do whatever I want in that little minute or two minutes before their patience is up. Right. Yeah. But that's where throughout the presentation, I've said, who wants to win $2,000? Raise your hand and people raise their hand. How many people are having this problem? Is this true? People are nodding their heads and I'm gauging their level of either frustration or the fact that they are right fit people throughout the presentation. And so at the end, I can ask these more direct qualifying questions and people are already trained to raise their hand. So they will out themselves at that point, right? Whether or not that's the case. And then I make a case to go check out a demo. Now, whether they, we've incentivized it by a special gift that we're giving away, maybe it's just kind of like, I sometimes say, we're going to do a three minute save session. In three minutes time, we're going to show you how to save time, save money, and save your sanity. You've already spent 15 with me. What's another three? Right. So see, see Suzanne over there. She's going to talk to you. You know, I'll bring you over. And Suzanne's just smiling and ready. Yeah. She's like, she's like, bring them on. She's a bright star. So, so that's kind of, and then, then I say that the loudest person who yells the company's name, if you need a cue card, it's right behind me on the count of three is going to get picked to have a chance to win my cash. And then I play a game with them that the odds are stacked in their favor. And yet I basically do it for a living. So I, you know, I'm good at it. And the question is, do they get the cash? The odd time they do. I am very good at the game. So I try to keep my cash. And if the company wants me to give away some cash, I will give away some cash and intentionally lose. So there is, there's some, so, and if, and if we wanted to, we could do it for less cash and lose every time. But this is just kind of the way that I choose to do my presentations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how many presentations would you do in a, in a, if I had brought you in or a business brought you in, you know, say an eight, I'm going to say a typical 10 hour, 12 hour day on a booth. I mean, What shows are you doing? Well, there you go. 12 hours is suck. You tell me, yeah. I mean, I haven't done a lot of trade shows. No, it's all right. I'm not a trade show guy. Typical trade show is probably seven or eight hours a day. Sometimes I was just at one that was 10 hours a day. Yeah. Okay. So let's say eight, 12 hours a day. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. So typically we contract for 10 to six, 10 to seven, right? Or usually, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We typically contract for five presentations a day. During the five easiest hours. Yeah. So the first, first hour is sometimes dead, last hour is sometimes dead, middle five, and maybe there's a lunch in there, you know, so it works out pretty well in a seven hour day. And then, and then kind of rinse and repeat, right? So we make the booths busy, make it happening, and then let it go back to normal, which is always kind of a good like this. If you didn't have me, this would be like all the time, by the way, right? You know, that kind of experience with that. Looks like, but it's also a little bit of a break for the booth neighbors, because I can get sound complaints. And if I'm, if I'm going all the time, they're like, oh, like this guy's killing us. So it's kind of nice to have that like ebb and flow through. I was going to say, there's, there's a cooth to this and even, you know, and a respect, obviously. Yes. Yes. And my question is how do the, the trade so in the trade show, do they give clearance on this or are the businesses just bringing them? It's like, it's on my booth. I paid for the booth. Love it or like a kind of sometimes it's that sometimes it's, it's usually the only, the only thing that sometimes is a snag is some shows don't allow sound either at all, or they don't allow it for a certain size of booth or sponsorship. So let's say a 10 by 10 or a 10 by 20, they didn't pay enough to have a sound system in their booth. It's kind of what they're saying. So I've done that. Sometimes I can do, I've actually in Europe one time in Barcelona, I had to do a show with no sound system. And it was interesting because I don't try to do that. That's like hard on the voice because, you know, you're, you're trying to project and everything. But I found something interesting was that with a sound system, let's say I've got my crowd and cave on your like, you know, you're like maybe 15 feet deeper and there's a bunch of space between the crowd who's actually having a good time. And you're kind of, I call these people like energy vampires. They're just like, they're just going to, they're just going to absorb and watch from afar, but they're not going to give it back, right? They're not going to be part of it. I love it. And, and so if I was on a microphone, you could hear me from there. And so you could, you can enjoy the show from there. But what I found was when I wasn't using a microphone, those people, they had, they were tempted to come in closer because they couldn't hear. And so I was like, Oh my, yeah, this is, it was, it wasn't so bad, but it's not a real, you know, you could still do that with the microphone with voice inflection, right? So that's, well, that, no, that's true too. And it, but there is almost kind of like a sweet spot where to do that. So you're saving your voice, you know, at the same time as, as, you know, creating that intimacy, right? And not taking off all your booth neighbors. But, but typically what I'll do is I'll go to all the booth neighbors around, especially the ones that are kind of in direct. Yeah. Line with my, my speaker. And then I'll say, Hey, you know, I'm going to be doing this thing over here. My job is to put a bunch of people right in this intersection. So when we're done with them, tap them on the shoulder, bring them in your booth, you know, and they're like, Oh, okay, great, great. So I try to frame it so that they realize that this is kind of a fun and unique thing that they're going to be around. And, you know, you can, you can benefit from everyone, which they probably would benefit just from a little bit more higher traffic. So I'm well, we've, yeah. And, and, and you know what the funniest thing is I've had complaints from, from these booth neighbors, they said, your crowds are standing in our booth. And I'm like, well, they're yours. Take them, take them. Like you're welcome. You're welcome. But, you know, that's all I've seen. I've seen, you know, things online, just videos of like just, I'd call them like angry, trade show goers that are, you know, they've been doing for 10 years and they just, they hate themselves. They hate being there and they hate anything that's unique or that's actually bringing a positive vibe. I've seen that too many times. Yeah, definitely. I mean, you can get jaded, you know, spending good money at shows. If you're, you know, not, not getting results, I can understand that, but there, there are other things out there you can try. There's a science. There's a science to this for sure. I'm dying to ask because I'm going to say you've been to, you've seen all the greatest shows. You've seen the smallest to the biggest, the widest to the tallest, I mean, all the different types. When you think about all the greatest shows you've gotten to, like what's one thing like that stands out the most, whether it was the most interesting, these, they were shocking thing you saw or unique thing you saw, come and do like what stands out? Well, I'll tell you, there's, let me tell you one, one, there was one moment at, at VMware, VMware world, I should say one time where I was doing a presentation, but two boosts to my right at IBM, Tony Hawk was signing skateboards and they were giving away skateboards. Two boosts behind me was the mountain from the Game of Thrones, like the world's strongest man. And then Clay Thompson was shooting three pointers in a, in a, basically a half court that they constructed as a trade show booth. This was all happening all at once. And so I was kind of like, okay, anyone who's not into fantasy, skateboarding, or, you know, basketball, you're my people, come on, let's do this kind of thing. So, so celebrity appearances are kind of a neat thing that we see. It's, but those are kind of fleeting, right? Like that's only going to be for a short amount in the more famous, the person in the shorter amount of time that's actually going to happen. I do remember seeing like an American Ninja Warrior course in a booth one time, which is, is kind of memorable. So people would try to do these things. And it was, it was a very dumbed down version because obviously those kind of athletes were not attendees of the show. So, but, but there was a foam pit and there was, you know, things that you had fall into and try to do. There was a skateboard half pipe beside my booth one time. And that didn't really work that well. It sounded like a cool idea, but they, you know, it wasn't as big of a draw as they thought it would be, right? Sometimes, sometimes you, you get this wild idea. Like there's this one company called Fusion.io and that was the company that used to, they're, they're no longer, they got bought, but that was the one that did the, the Ninja, American Ninja Warrior course. They did a bicycle powered Ferris wheel one time. So you got in this thing and you like pedaled it and it would make it go around, you know, and so people could ride this Ferris wheel that they construct. So wild and different, you know, whether or not they pulled business out of that, right? Like this is that whole, you gave them an experience, you give them a reason to stop. Is there relevance? Is that connection? Is there that other piece to it? And, and sometimes if it's more brand building, more of that new kids on the block, like we're here and you, you want that brand recognition, that wild stuff is good for that too, right? It depends. You've got like brand marketing and then like direct response in terms of like showing ROI, right? There is, you know, there is some crazy sponsorships that are sold at trade shows, you know, that you'd pay $40,000 for, to give away popcorn for a two hour reception. And there's like a dime size logo on the back. Like, like, you know, it's like, I guess that's brand building, but doesn't work. I mean, those are the things I think are mostly hard to track. But again, even like you said, nowadays with scan and codes and all that, yeah, becoming easier and easier. Yeah. So if someone's listening here and thinking, hey, I'm, I haven't done trade shows or I, you know, I've been thinking about trade shows. And we wanted to give some actual like, you know, good knowledge, I would say to them, what would be like couple of do's and don'ts? Like if like, I'm talking basics, we're talking basics. Yeah. Just simple like, yeah, sure. You're doing a trade show here, the three things to look out for here's the three things you must have. Just to have that conversation. I think it'd be great. Yeah. Well, I think we kind of mentioned a little bit in terms of capturing attention, typically spiking dopamine is how we do that. And if we give a gift, if there's novelty at stake, you know, people go, oh, oh, I want that, right? And then you create FOMO. So that's why giveaways and, you know, raffles and things like that are always so common at trade shows, right? So definitely some sort of giveaway is a good idea, right? It's a reason why you continually see it, you know, for, it goes way back and it'll continue to go way forward. Another thing I would say is invest in your people. Like trade shows are like a different world. And to really thrive in that world, you need to be operating, you know, at that level of energy to be there all day, to show up and to really, you know, be on your best, be booth staff behavior, if you will. So stay off your phone, you know, don't eat in the booth. We always talk about, you know, you want to avoid clustering, meaning don't be, get internal and having this conversation with your other booth staffers. Like, you know, you want to face the aisle, we say butts to the booth, not asses to the aisle, right? Like it's like, you want to make sure you're facing in case someone walks by. I did this last week, and if anyone follows me on LinkedIn, and I post a lot of these videos where I kind of do walk and talk videos. And I took a picture of three people who are all heads down on their phones sitting in a booth, and you're going to see this all the time. But the fact that I could get away with taking the picture, and they never saw me do it, right? It's like, I could have been a perfect fit whale of a customer for them, right? And whether I not, I looked at your booth or not, I walked right on by, but they'll never know, right? And so my message in that last video I made was like, don't be complaining about, you know, the ROI you're going to get a trade show if you're pulling that kind of crap, right? Like so, so when I say invest in your people, 49% of companies rarely are never trained their booth staff. So the 51% that do train their booth staff regularly or quite often, most of them do it internally. And I've been in and been at those internal trade show trainings. And here's what it is, K-Von. It's, it's an event manager taking a phone and just going, okay, don't eat in the both. Yeah. Stab your phone. And it's just, it's just someone reading. Yeah, it's just reading a thing, right? So, so we, we have boost staff trainings on our, on our website on engageify.ai that are meant, they're just, they're very affordable per person. And it's the idea that we just, we don't want to give people an excuse not to train their booth staff. And the thing that we've found is it's the number one thing that companies need is the last thing they'll ever spend money on. And, and so the, the, the eye candy of the booth and the whole like, oh, we're going to do this, we're going to do, they pour all of their investment into that, right? And getting their people there. But they don't think about that engagement piece. And, and 85% of your success at a trade show is because of your booth staff. Okay. So there's all kinds of stats I can spout. I don't want to get into it too much, but that is, you know, it is no matter how much you click from place to place, it'll never replace face to face. That's, you know, it's trade shows are about face to face. And then what are like, I guess there was a little bit of dues, I guess, in there and don'ts in there. Yeah, a little bit. I just got up on my soapbox instead of ranting. I know, I mean, I think it's great though. I mean, I just want to re get, make sure people heard that like what I'm hearing is we need to have a giveaway and a giveaway. I mean, to their gift, you got to create some novelty, some FOMO, that's kind of step one. That's like a step one must have. So when, when thinking about even going through a trade show, the question is, Hey, what's the novelty? What's the phone? What's the giveaway that we can create to really the end, which is the most important, the spike dopamine is what you said. Number two, I'm going to call it trade booth etiquette, which is salesman etiquette, which is everyday human etiquette, but people, we've just lost that etiquette, which is what are the tools and what's the responsibilities of how people comment at the booth. Again, typical things like not eating at the booth, not clustering at the booth. I love what you said, ass is facing in, not out. You know, being able to, to bring out that energy. So it's really people etiquette. What's one more? What's one more? One more is, you know, for, I talk about what is the kind of person we want to engage with? I call it creating your own engaging persona, meaning, you know, sometimes people, especially if they're on the technical side, they might be a little quiet, this kind of thing. We need to kind of bring a different version of ourselves just to amp it up, you know, just to, so, you know, whether that is smiling, being open, just being more personable, trying to crank up your warmth. So we talked about Kobe Bryant was the black mamba, right? We had, you know, Sasha Fierce was Beyonce's alter ego, right? You might have a pumped up version of yourself and just, you know, just bring that to the shows, you know, when it's showtime, when the show hours kick up, you know, kick into that extra gear, because there's, it's a lot of people are not going to do that. And how are you going to stand out at the end of the day? Like we want to have these memorable interactions with people. So personality, that I would say, okay, really, what's engagement? Three is the idea how are you going to engage? We're going to rely just on your people to engage, we're going to hire people like you to engage, we're going to use music to engage, how are we going to create the hype? And, and no, and I love what you said too, is also know the people we want. So what are the people we want to attract here? And I can tell you those three simple things, I feel like a lot of businesses just don't even get right. A lot of them just sit back and wait, right, and just see what they're going to do. And even, you know, and there's another thing that I just had a call the other day with the company, like, they sometimes say, well, we want quality over quantity. So we're going to scale back on this and just try to get quality. And it's like, well, the whole trade show booth is a funnel. Right? Like it's like the more people you get to the booth, the more good ones you'll find. Right. And so just making sure that you are filtering them and, and, and being able to find the good ones that are there. And that's why we do that whole, we find the quality and the quantity with our, with our call to action. But it's sometimes they feel like they're just like, I'm just going to find quality. It's like, well, how are you going to do that? You just sounds like you just want to sit back. I will try to see what comes to you in a haystack, right? Right. And they said what makes them want to come to you versus the 50, 60, 70 other booths. Listen, from what I'm hearing is that I said it in between and I want to make sure this is not a paid promotion. But from what I'm seeing and I'm understanding here, if I was, I have a business myself and if I was ever even thinking about doing a trade show, I wouldn't be doing one without calling you first. Because you to me seem like you are the, the recipe for success. If you want to have an effective promotional and conversion, high conversion trade show with that being said, where can they find you? Yes. So I did drop it before engageify.ai. So it's E N G A G I F Y dot AI. We're not an AI company. The AI stands for authentic interactions. That's what that's about. So on that, we have a learning hub. We have past webinars we've done. We've got our trainings. We've got all kinds of tools there. Check that out. And then follow me on LinkedIn, Anders Belanger. I'm going to spell it sorry, A N D E R S. And then looks like Boo Langer, B O U L A N G E R. I post all kinds of videos, you know, in the field at trade shows talking about these different tips. Awesome. Thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me, K-Bahn.