EP 44: Tackling Addiction: Braven & Britt Hager’s Story

Disclaimer. At Two Addicts in the Moron, we discuss personal stories of addiction with the intention of being educational, relatable, and inspirational. The views and experiences shared are those of individuals involved are not meant to glorify or condone any illegal or harmful behavior. This content is for educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, we strongly encourage you seek help from a qualified professional or support service. And we are back to Episode 44. Tom Rathman's number. Go 49ers. That was a good player. Yeah, he was awesome. Two very, very special guests and a unique situation that we have today, which we haven't had before. And I couldn't be more thrilled to be a part of it and have them be a part of us. Ladies and gentlemen, Raven Hager and his father, Britt Hager. Thank you so much for coming in. Thanks for having us. This is going to be a lot of fun. We have never had the unique experience of having a parent who had a struggle and was struggling. Every bit is hard just in a different way. And I can't wait to ask you a few questions and also you as well. Absolutely. And I know you've become very active. I see you, you know, on the social medias and the out loud recovery is definitely something that's important to you. And well, let's get louder. So, you know, Episode 44 introductions got a little bit of a different setup here, but in the middle, not on the middle left. Joey, the moron moron in the middle to the left. Jay Klein to the right. Mike Stuboy recovered addicts, meth, GHB. All right. And then I'm a Raven Hager and I'm a recovering alcoholic and drug addict. All right. I'm Britt Hager, Braven's dad. All right. Very here's so much more than that. But none more important than than dad to four boys. All right. And second tradition, we always do this every time to start. It's we'll let Jay Klein take this away. Like we do before every episode, we'll take a just a brief moment of silence. Just to honor those. Let us bow our heads, close our eyes, get centered, get present. Let us think about the addict that's still out there currently suffering and struggling. The friends and family members that are struggling with them. An addict that unfortunately could not be with us here today. Moment of silence, please. Thank you. All right. So let's get episode 44 kicked off and I'm going to start over in your neck of the woods here. So, uh, Raven, what was your, uh, DOC? Um, uh, my DOC, um, at first it was, you know, alcohol, high schools, a weekend warrior, um, that was all most important. I had it all. I had, you know, I had a lot of, I had a lot of, I had a lot of, I had a lot of people, you know, um, the size, uh, starting to speed playing football. Um, I had brothers that were, um, killing it. You know, my dad, so I had everything, you know, I thought everything was laid out for me. You know, I thought everything was, I remember when I was in middle school in choir class thinking, okay, I'm going to be a chaperone. I'm going to be a long horn and then I'm going to be an eagle. Yeah. You know, and that was my plan. Um, a little time, I know there was a lot of, uh, a lot of work you have to do to get there, like school and discipline and doing your homework and all those, so at an early age, um, I just, I was also always addicted to self and what I wanted to do. You know, I didn't want to do the homework. I didn't want to do that. So real early, um, I attached to things that, you know, um, I always wanted to feel happy. So like, um, the alcohol during the weekends, um, that's where it started. That's where I felt that moment. You know, I was keystone light. Oh yeah. Gross. And Wesley. Yeah. I remember I tried drinking wine before I threw up and I was like, I'm going in. My friend, this was, this was thinking about now makes me sick. Cause this is like, I'm about seventh grade here. Yeah. I had a friend, um, that, you know, who's passed out drunk in the bathroom at seventh grade and he went to AEP for it, you know, and then I was mad at him, but then I eventually when I was like going into eighth grade, I started drinking beer and that, you know, escalated into high school. I took a painkiller and I love that feeling. And then that's where the, the alcoholic and drug addict, um, was born. Um, I did some things. You know, I ended up playing football. I got, I got a scholarship. I got in big, big trouble in high school, but, um, yeah, it's, it's graduated a stage four. So when you asked me like what my drug of choice is now, it's, it's everything and more. Yeah. Um, it's, there's not, I don't think there hasn't been a substance under the sun. I haven't tried maybe I haven't tried jank them. I don't think that's in the, I heard about that once. I think that souls is like, what, that is this horrible. Yeah. Do that. I don't, if you don't know what Jacob is, please don't look it up. It's disturbing. Yeah. But no, um, yeah, it's been more, um, because I'm a furnace once I start, you know, it's just, there's nothing that can really keep that fire down other than God and sobriety. So definitely just staying on this track has been, has been great, especially giving myself that year. My dad, people have been telling me all the time, just get the year, you know, and see, see how that feels. Cause I was in a, in a cycle of in rehab out of rehab for three months. Get it. I got, like I'll do well when I'm out of the rehab for three months. I'll get a good job. I'll, you know, my parents trust me and get my family trust me again. And then as soon as something so minimal happens to me that I can't figure out on my own or a situation where someone says, Hey, you have to pick up and call somebody about and talk about, I never did that. Yeah. That, you know, that heavy phone in the pocket that was always for me. So always call somebody. It doesn't matter. You're not a burden. Um, I wanted to make that really clear. Um, kind of one of the first opening statements that you are definitely not, you are not a burden and that calling someone can save your life. Um, so please call somebody. Right. We can't do this alone. And not your drug dealer. Yeah. That's what I always laugh at because I'm not laugh at, but people are like, man, I just had the phone was so heavy and I'm like, but you called your drug dealer. That phone wasn't heavy for that phone call. Yeah. Like that's, that should not be the last person that you call. Right. Right. Yeah. Um, so I'm just curious. This is a curiosity to me, but where four boys, where are you in the, I'm the third. So I have one younger and two older. So the middle. Okay. You're one of the middle, the middle child. Man, I, I don't want to, I'm one of them. I'm the second in that pantheon. So middle child syndrome is, uh, is definitely real. So how long have you been sober? I've been sober for, um, 18, about to be 19 months on the list. Hey man. Yes, sir. Come on. Yes, sir. 18 months. Good for you. A lot has happened in that 18 months. Uh, is this the longest that you've made it? 100%. Yeah. It's the longest for that. Maybe six months. Yeah. Maybe. And this is the 11 years of really trying, um, trying and, um, what I also wanted to, I told my mom this and I don't know if my dad have heard this, but I don't know if they, cause they spent, I don't even want to know how much money on my treatment. Um, but every, every cent counts cause I've learned, I've met so many great teachers from these places. I've been to some of the best rehab facilities in the world, you know, especially in the United States. It's take, take me to places met these great teachers that, uh, gave me this toolbox that I can use. Um, there was a guy at, um, the last resort, Chris shanks. I don't know if you'll have heard of that name, but he was, uh, he was, he was different. He, he did things that he taught mindfulness. That's how I learned how to meditate. And if I'm, I get panic attacks, I'm really panicky and full of anxiety. Um, but I can go into my toolkit, do the, you know, the three sets of 10, the breathe in the feel and breathe out. Um, I do that all the time. Um, and I would have never known how to do something like that to get, you know, what I used to do was, um, you know, take a drug or take a drink. Now I meditate. Um, I've learned, you know, all types of, um, religious spiritual teachers I've, you know, and it's, and I've learned so much about myself with you. So I don't want them to think that anything was wasted because it got me to this point where I'm at, where I'm the strongest I've ever been. Um, I'm a father. Um, um, I'm a blue collar working man. You can, couldn't ever tell me that like I'm holding out a construction job over two years ago that would scare me. Everything scares me. Right. I'm full of fear. Um, but the coolest thing about sobriety, you really get to know what, you know, the strength that you have inside and what you're really made of because you're not made to just drink yourself to death or to, um, you know, overdose on fentanyl or whatever else that you're doing. That's just completely destroying your life. Um, um, the, and it hit a little too close to home. Um, the night before Thanksgiving, my brother and law, um, drank himself to death at a, at a Thanksgiving party. Whoa. Yeah. It's my, um, it's my girl's twin brother to 29. Man. Yeah. It, it stinks. It, it, it. I know how sad I am about in her bite. I've known I knew Tristan for two years. We worked together. We live in close quarters together. Um, you know, we're all real close on one time. So it hurts. If it hurts me, this I can imagine what my, what my lady is going through right now that is her twin. That's, but she is so strong and resilient and she's such a great mother. And she got, she, um, we all drove down here. All the kids are here and we're, I'm so proud of her and I love her. And I just pray for that family and that they get the strength to maybe one day help other families. Um, cause that's, that's what we all hope for is that stories like this will help somebody and really, really touch somebody. Cause it. When, uh, when something like that happens, and especially for like an Alan on perspective now for me, because I don't know how to handle other addicts. Really. When I'm sober, I, I don't know. Yeah. I'm like, this is what we, gosh, it's a horrible feeling when you look at that mirror. Yeah. Um, and then seeing what it did to him and I, we all tried though. So there's no guilt there. We all tried. We all did. I just, he just didn't know how to, you know, and I wish there was something that, you know, he heard that would have clicked, but, um, so yeah, definitely God rests his soul and, um, there's been a lot of factors that helped me. Been sober the last two, uh, last, you know, year and a half. Another thing I want to definitely shout out like music is so big for me. Um, there's a band called nothing more that I've, that my, that my girl got me onto and shoes. They are so good. Man, such a good band. And there was a lot of their, especially their album spirits, that album, their new album was great. All, you know, but spirits, there's a couple of songs on there, like face it and just songs that, um, that are made for me. Like kind of like reading Bill's story for the first time. Yeah. This was written for me. Yeah. You know, in the big book of AA. And that's how when I hear their catalog of music, I, I've, for Jenny then, right? Oh my gosh. It's a song about, you know, um, the lead singer's sister was, is a drug addict and their mom had cancer and during the time she was heavy in her use and then the mom eventually passed, but she tried to hold on as long as she could for the daughter, you know, and it's this, the singer's agony with it and just pain and her and misunderstanding of it, you know, of it. But he also made a music video that is, um, the lead singer, Johnny directed the video, I believe in it. It's, it's so cool and talking about small worlds and stuff. I, uh, I, I messaged on one of their things like, Oh, we were there, blah, blah, blah. And then I got a message from Bo Hawkins, like a comment that's John, Johnny Hawkins dad and he was like, Hey, I'm a huge fan of your dad. Yeah. So me and Bo are like Facebook buddies and it's funny, but they're like my, it's just such a small, cool world. And we got to see them. Um, cause Taylor, uh, my woman, she won a contest. She got free tickets and we got there. We made it to front row and then they saw us rocking so hard. So they got us backstage. So we got to meet the band. That's awesome. And then I saw Johnny and he was like, you made a front row like he knew me. So this band, I don't know, their music, everything, it just does a lot for me. And, um, especially the song, um, face it. It, someone like me that's full of fear that hates biting the bullet and really just facing things like this is what I did. Cause I don't like telling people I messed up. I want to be perfect at everything. Of course. Your perfection is. Yeah. So it's only like, are you a perfectionist? I was like, I don't know. Like, no, he's like, well, do you not really try everything? Cause you, you have a fear that you're going to be bad at it. I'm like, yes. Yeah. It's like, do you bite your finger? Yeah. That's a weird thing, but you're a perfectionist and, um, that kind of blew me away. Hmm. Yeah. You know. So I'm sorry. It's okay to look stupid and, um, fall forward and fail it. Well, you are going to, you are absolutely going to look stupid at certain parts in your life. That's life gets lifey and, uh, and that, that's going to happen. So my question for you is this seemed to have started pretty early. Um, how, how early did you start noticing? Yeah. That's a great question. Cause we, a few months ago, my wife, Bridget, um, braymah's mother, we were talking about that. She goes, I knew brave and we had a problem a lot longer before you did. I go, yeah, you did. I mean, because, um, I, you know, just whatever reasons, but when I knew it was, we had a problem was one night of me and her were coming back from dinner, going down there, you know, going to our neighborhood, driving and we pull up and we see all these, you know, cop cars and ambulance and man, what's going on here? You know, we got closer. I went to go, Hey, this Braven's truck. So we pulled up on Braven, had his truck wrapped around a telephone. And so it was getting rushed to the hospital. So we had rushed to hospital. So that, that night it's like, he got some problems. Right. And so, um, now when I said that, I didn't know what that meant, right? Because, you know, I, you know, not being around, um, people who had substance abuse, that was, at that time, my life, I was not around a lot or going out with like, right? So you just, you just didn't know what that journey was going to be. Right. And so, um, until you go through it, you know, it's, it's been hard, but that's when it started. So it was, you know, 16, around 16, 17 years old, right? But like I said, he was doing it in junior high, but she, she realized, and at that time I was traveling, I mean, four boys, I was working after football, said work. So I was, I was on the road a lot. And so what I'd do is work during the week and try to be home on the weekends to pop Warner and all that stuff. Yeah. Coaching. So, so I wasn't around a lot during that time. Um, but, but that's kind of for me. That's when it started and the journey started, right? And you know, what I knew back then, what I know today, right? It's, I've never in my wildest dreams think and you know, as a parent, right? Is that if you have that gut feeling, say, Hey, something's wrong, you need to reach out and go get help because it doesn't change. I mean, it's, you know, to me, this is like we talk about it's only three, four thing happened either. You get sober, you get thrown in jail or you die. Yeah. What was it? Oh, yeah. My mom used to say, uh, because my mom is in recovery and she used to say either you're going to get locked up, sobered up or covered up. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so, so when somebody says that back in that, you don't really understand how powerful that is until you walk through the journey, right? Because the hope, right? Cause you, cause to this point, it's one thing is, is like, I'm going to go do whatever it took as a father, we had resources to do it. Not everybody has a resources, but don't let that stop you from not reaching out for help, right? Because as we found out, there's a way, there's always a way. There's always a way you just got to put some effort into it and ask for help and help. And so don't bury that. Don't, you know, don't walk away from it because it doesn't, doesn't go away. Right. I'm just telling you, it doesn't go away and you have to deal with it just to pay when that happens, it's going to be part of your life. It's just, it's part of your journey, right? And as soon as you wake up and you realize that, um, uh, you know, you can do a lot, you know, do a lot more things because if you bury it, hide it, walk away from it, bad things happen. Yeah. Well, we were talking about it a little bit before the podcast, but it's, you know, when you have a child and they're a baby, they're perfect and you have this wide lens of what you envision for them, right? And then they go through something like you did and now you were like, look, I'm just thankful for every day that he wakes up and we're sober, right? And so it's like that scope because of your journey, y'all's journey. It kind of just went down into, into that. It's just like what you become thankful for really becomes like today. It's like every day we wake up thankful for the day. Yeah. I don't want it too much in the future too much anymore. I mean, I mean, look, it's not, we don't have dreams. Yeah. You have a dream board and you still want to dream. He has dreams or things we talked about, you know, doing stuff in the future. It's not that. I mean, you always want that, but, but the thing is, is that every day I'm thankful for every day because I know what the battle it is and what a challenge is every day. When you understand it, you're thankful, right? Yeah. You have to go through the understanding. You have to go through the walk and, you know, we're fortunate. I mean, a lot of families are not fortunate. We're fortunate at this point in time that he's still with us, right? Yeah. And, you know, and it's, it's funny. He goes, how did he get sober? Cause we went to this point, I mean, California to Washington. I mean, we've seen him everywhere, right? Try to what, you know, try to just get a little longer. Just, you know, let your brain develop. Yeah. How many rehabs have you been to? Um, I'd say about like, I've been to, I'm like, I repeat a lot. So I counted once like 24, 25. Okay. Yeah. Like I've been a solstice six times, TLR a couple of times and then a couple of rehabs. So world traveler. World traveler. Yeah. Yeah. So y'all send him every time. I was in a row. No, no, no. So you just get, we sent him because it just, you're trying to find hate cause everybody's different. People think different just trying to look find that right. That one thing, but I think in the formula like, look, you got to go get help, but you have to have a higher cause or higher being that, you know, for us, it's Christianity for others. Look, it's something bigger than, than, than you because look, we're all put on this earth to do something, right? And we're all got challenges and, and you know, part of drug addiction and alcohol, it is a, it is a, it is a issue. It's not a, it's a thing. It's not, they choose to do it and they choose to have bad behaviors and all that. I'm not making an excuse. I'm just saying, cause some people there's, there's consequences, right? To make and keep making bad decisions. But, but if you say, look, I'm going to wake up today. I want to make this. I want to make that decision. I can't make it for him. My mother can't make it for him. He had to make it. Right. Yeah. And so I think finally, you know, you're like I said, 19 months ago, um, I would never wish this on my child, right? So this is a story. So this is about these calls. So, so he just came out of a sober house and he had a good job working that cause, right? Driving the clean cause clean cause. Man, he's got a great job. He's going to start bringing some money in. He calls his mom and goes, Hey, I found this girl online. I'm going, I'm moving to Houston. I'm going, what? I go, what is, what are you doing? Yeah. He just, he leaves, right? And he goes to Houston, right? And so. Okay. Here we go. And so, but what happened is when he got there, right? The whole, it was not, it was still bumpy, right? But he found Taylor. Taylor had two young children and then she got pregnant right away with Sophia. I'm going, you know, I want to wish that on anybody. What are you doing? Right? I mean, look, you don't have a job. I mean, as a, as a rational thinker. Yeah. And so, but I think to his point, right? Then you start thinking, man, he's been in sober houses, living with guys, you know, nothing wrong with that. Yeah. But it's like, but, you know, for most of his young adult life, that's all he knew, right? Yeah. I'm going, well, he finally, I think he just had enough of that, right? I mean, not saying he's against it. Just, it was a time for a break, right? Yeah. So he came here and then, and then he goes, Hey, I'm going to go diving. I go, you doing, why you never been in the water diving before? I mean, what do you do? So he's, you know, and so he started cleaning bottom of boats in the marinas. I'm going. So we was talking one day, you know, this is about 12 months later. I go, I would never wish that upon my child to go and have that much, that much responsible of four boys. I mean, four kids real fast, which we know how tough it is to raise kids on top of that, going cleaning barnacles off of bottom of people's boats. Right? I mean, very hard. But, but, but you know what? He's happy. Mm hmm. He has a purpose. Mm hmm. He's sober. Yeah. I mean, who am I, who am I to say? What am I to say? Yeah. That's what you want. I mean, as I go, I'm having my heart feels free. I mean, happy for him because it's like, this is his life. It is his path, right? And as a parent, right? It's that, that hard juggling of stepping over the line, right? Trying to do too much where you're hindering somebody, right? Mm hmm. And the parents were all probably guilty, especially my generation of parents, right? Because we, because we had worked for everything, right? And then we came through some process, process, and then we probably did too much for our kids, right? Yeah. I mean, people talk about that all the time, but, but, but now it's like, that's why I'm so proud of him, right? I'm so proud of Taylor and the babies and, and you know, they're going to, and like Taylor's going through a hard time. I mean, losing the twin brother, you know, to alcoholism and, you know, I don't know what it is. I mean, because it's hard enough. Cause I lost, I only lost my mom and that's, that's hard. And my wife's lost her, her dad and mom with five days of each other. 10 years ago. So I was a tough, tough go, but, but then I have teammates that died. I mean, it's been, you know, like Jerome Brown, we talked about. Man. And then it was, you know, and, and then Rocky was a college player or we call him pledge, bro. He's my pledge, bro. Okay. And he died and they both died on the same day, both in one in Florida, one in, you know, in Texas and a car accident drinking. Wow. I'm not saying drone. It was never a deal. He's just going too fast. Like, yeah. I mean, it would drove like, I don't think the other one was, but, but it was sad because I had to, it was sad. Cause I love both of them. I had to make it, had to choose which funeral cause the funeral was on the same day. Oh, I couldn't make it. You know, and so, so I ended up going to Rockies cause at that time I just knew Rocky longer on new drone. Yeah. I just, that's kind of just made it on that. It's like, but, but it's like, you know, and then, but also experienced with Braven, right? You go to the only sober you get to meet people you get attached and then, then they next day they, they're not with us. Yeah. And it's like, and I think that, you know, that's, that sucks. Right. Yeah. And that's the reason you want, Hey, look, you know, how do we, you know, we help more people? How did this happen? You know, you look back in the bushes there when they, they struck out the mental health institutions, right? Cause a, you know, bad thing and they were doing cuts, right? Yeah. I thought, I think that's bad and good. The bad thing is they shouldn't shut that down because it's more of the mental health, right? There's a need for that. And we, more you're in this, but also I think for the soap, for the sober community out here and all what everybody does with different houses and different things, they're getting better at it. Cause you know, cause the government is out of it. And so you're learning and people are learning and things. And so I do think the community is getting bigger, stronger, but I do think now that the federal government, we're going to do all these reforms and stuff like that and cut budgets here, send money overseas. We need to put the money back here to really get this straightened out for homeless and everything else. Cause cause it's, it's a really a problem, but, but I think with the community, they can figure the problem out. It's not the government needs to figure out. So community figures out cause cause I'm telling you, I've seen some good sober houses, some bad. And I've lived in the new, I've been in many silver linens. So, so it's like, so you know what's good and you know what's bad, right? But I think as the public goes through and learning more and more about, you know, sobriety and, and the struggles, right? It's, it's a real thing. It's not, it's not, hey, I'm just going to go get high and go cause a lot of problems for my family right now. It's, it is a struggle. It's a, it's a real thing. And, and I think soon as we as a society as a, as a country understand that and also the pharmaceuticals look, I know it's a percentage game, right? It's a percentage game. Hey, we try to help more people when we hurt, but, but the problem is it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And we've got to really take a real hard look at all the way around from the top of the bottom. Yeah. The consequence is so much. Yeah. So it's great. It's so much great. It's so much greater now than it was 10 years ago. Yeah. You know, and I'm learning this now, but I mean, your last time can literally be your last time. And this is all stuff is, this is totally frightening, right? I mean, because it's like you're talking about that you can't go get Adderall and you're addicted on Adderall and you can't go get a subscription because they're, the pharmacies are really titled Adderall, right? Going to the street. You got, you got to go straight and you're going to probably get fentanyl. I mean, it happened here to a high school kid. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like it happens to never community now, right? I mean, because, because it's like, no, that's, it's one thing is look, if you're going to prescribe that or we're going to allow that to happen, you got to say, look, there you, how are you going to deal with the consequences of the people that when they do get it, because you don't really know until you get on it, right? If you're addicted or not, I mean, it's like, unless they might have tests that tell you now, but, but you don't really know until you go through it. You just don't know who that, that what that person is or who that's going to be. But when it had be better act fast and put a program for that, when it happens and not this, let it keep going because, oh, you know, it's not my problem. Yeah. Right. Well, I think there's so much money made in the pharmaceutical, right? Yeah. And there's so much money that's passed probably under the table that they just keep that shit just going, going. And then, you know, as far as like with the community, I think, I think there's more, there's definitely needs to be more knowledge out there and more communication. And they're definitely, I know, like when I was growing up, it was more shameful. Like if you were, if you were like, like when I was growing up, if you did weed and alcohol, right? Yeah. But the people that did coke, I was like, oh, they're doing coke. Like that's nasty. And then here I am doing coke. And then I'm like, well, no, I'll never do meth. And then I'm doing meth. But I think that it's, it's not becoming, especially from a parent standpoint. It's not so shameful as it was probably because there's more parents out there that are going through it now. And I think like with Alan on, I think that's a really good group for someone that doesn't know how to deal with. That's a good point. And that's reason I want to say this again is that even though the last few years, right, it's crazy how many families will just call my, especially my wife because she's very good. I wish she probably needs to be on her talk. No, she's the one that's incredible. But, but it's, it's crazy how you just do your point you made it. The environment is still, there's a stigma still, especially when you don't, when you haven't gone through it yet, right? Then you go, when you go through it goes, man, what's the first step? Who do I reach out to? Who do I talk to? I can't talk to my friends. Yeah. Cause, because they're looking around, but the problem, the reality, the friends probably the very same. It's the same. Yeah. Yeah. They're just not talking, right? Just it's a taboo. But, but once you get through that break through that area and it's hard, it was hard for me. It was a lot harder for me than my wife Bridget, but, but when you break this, you got to break through it because it, you just can't sweep it on the rug. This is just doesn't go away. It's literally life and death. Yeah. Like, you know, I'm sure like now I know like my brother, I watch my brother go through it with his son and like my brother literally had his son get arrested to keep cause he's like, he's safer in jail than he is out on the street. No, I mean, it's like with him, I mean, going to the court with him, like, I mean, I mean, I was one of the horrible days. I mean, outside of seeing him wrapped around telephone pole, but going to a courtroom, right? I mean, I've been at all. I've been through it all. I mean, other than. And I told him I was getting off probation that day. He, he expect, but I, he's locked him up in the jail. The rest of me right in front of my dad. And right before I dropped the news on him, like, yeah, I haven't been going to my probation drug test. He would take me to the probation drug test. I was taking painkillers at the time. So I would just hide in the bathroom for like an hour and come back and say, Hey, I passed it with colors. No, it's crazy. Y'all can be right. It's amazing. I go, there's not a lot of dummies around here. Y'all pretty smart. I mean, it's like, it's like, it's crazy. I go put that energy to something other than this, right? The engine is very talented. That goes into hiding and the stories and all of that. I mean, I tell this, you guys are impressed by the setup here. I, if I don't know that that would have ever happened if he didn't do meth for a long time, like, you know what I mean? Like he was sober when he did it. But I, but I don't know that all of this would have happened quite the same way that it would have if he hadn't gone through that. So to that point, him too, like the ingenuity that, that an addict has and it's just use it for good and not evil. Man, it's like, it's, it just wants to protect itself. It's like, I will be just super intoxicated or high and tell someone like, no, I'm not like not at all. It's like, we can tell it's just so evil. It wants to protect itself so bad. It wants you alone and wants you to medicate yourself and wants to kill you. Like, so if it's lying to your loved ones, if it's, cause I, that's what like later on, that's what would get me picking up again is the shame in the guilt. Yeah. You know, it's just that pain, you know, not necessarily, oh, I'm just such a no, I couldn't help myself. It's just, I felt so bad. I hated, but that's the craziness of it. You're continuing to do the same thing. You're doing what's hurting them. Yeah. What's hurting you. Um, it's the insanity part. It we're lying heavily on our midbrain here, you know, and not our, not our frontal cortex. That's where the decision making is the midbrain is where danger lives. That's where like, if a bear walks into the door, oh my God, a bear, you know, that's, I think that's how addicts function all the time is our prefrontal cortex is our compromised. Yeah. Cause I don't like lying to my family. I don't like hurting them. Oh, I'm so proud. I love my family. You know, and it's, it's been so great. Like I'll do anything to get back into the whatever it takes, you know, and the great thing is about them. They're just want me to be sober and happy and a man of God. And that's, you know, that's what I strive to be every day. So hearing all this, it's, it's hard for sure, but it's also very so sober. And that's, that's what, that's what is keeping me in the share right now is that sobering things in life. Yeah. But I just want to tell you, look, I don't look at you. I mean, look, I'm proud of you. It's a fight. It's a fight. I don't understand. Right. I mean, it's like, it's like, I mean, I didn't go to war, right? Those heroes that go go to war and fight, right? Yeah. I didn't expect the hell out. Cause I don't know what they went through. Right. Exactly. I mean, and so, but it's with y'all, I mean, it's a fight every day. You said it, it's life or death. I mean, you know, a lot of people don't have to go through every day. If I'm going to be alive day or not. Yeah. I mean, and so, so the things is, you know, these things is that I don't look in the past. I don't look to the, I mean, I look at the past to learn, right? You sure? Learn from the past, but I don't live in the past. I mean, you shouldn't live in the past. I mean, it's like there's always every day, the next day is always, I think it's always going to be a better day, a greater day. I know the cook. I'm old enough to know that, Hey, the order you get things happen, right? Right. And, but, but also been around long enough that look, America is one of the greatest places to live. Mm hmm. It gives you, you have the opportunity here to do what you want to be. You really do. And, and so, and I really believe that. Yeah. And, and, uh, and so that's my hope. My hope is like him, when you go like, he's out on a construction job. I never thought he'd be on a construction. I always hope it's funny because Bridget goes, you always want to go work on the construction. I know cause it's good, hard work. Yeah. It's a good day of pay. Right. I mean, this is, you know, I mean, right now for a young man, I mean, it'd be great, but it took him a while. It, it took him a while to get there. Right. And then when he took it, I'm going, okay, can he be consistent with it? Right. I mean, because it's, because construction is not easy, but it's, it's rewarding. It's, you know, you get to, you can see what you do every day. I mean, you know, what you're dressed on, right? That you accomplish something, right? And so, so all those things, I'm proud of him. I mean, even how does he get in the water and go clean those boats? As many hours as he does. He goes, jumps out, recover stuff in the ocean. I'm going, man, where'd you get me? I'm like, I like to swim. But yeah, jump in the water, right? The ocean, right? I mean, that's like, that's a whole nother world of that. That I admire, right? And so, so I just want to tell you, I love you. Look, I don't look in the patent mom, your mom, and we don't regret anything we done, right? I mean, and so, but moving forward is just like, oh, we always say as a deal, we, you have to have boundaries, right? And their boundaries look, we'll always help you in your sobriety. That's, that's what we're, that's where we're at. We'll pray for you, we'll help you in your sobriety, but anything else, man, it's you got to make good decisions, right? Yeah. And you're got to, if you don't, you're not to live by them. Yeah. And so, and so, but I think that's a freeing thing. I mean, I think that's something that when you get to, you get to that point because talking about the front brain, right? Those all these doctors, they said, no, man, get them, get them past 26, 27, right? So the front brain, you know, develop, right? And so just keep them to survive, right? Cause guys brains are different than girls brain. Oh yeah. And so, and I was always, that was always our goals. They look without over stamping, which is keep them alive, you know, keep them alive because, because you did have the dark days where he would disappear, right? They didn't know if he's alive or not, right? Yeah. You know, there's, he's under the bridge, right? He's out here. He's there, right? I mean, he walks how many days that when you left that sober house, the ranch, how many miles you walked? Oh yeah. When I first went to ranch house, I, I got there and they said I had to do ranch chores and I'm like, oh man, I'm not doing that. I'm out of here. So I walked and I walked, I don't know, like three, four miles, like to the closest Walmart. I think I had, I think I had some money to, yeah. And so stuff like that. You got him there and he, and he leaps, right? I mean, going, you know, and it, then with the journey, he had a bad back, right? Cause he was lifting hard and he had a herniated disc and. Man, going all the way out to California, heading to get him and, uh, picking up, bringing back here for surgery. I mean, stuff like that. Just, you know, willing him through a wheelchair, right? Yeah, my God, he's like, he was like 400 pounds back then. I mean, so pushing him through the wheelchair and getting him on the plane. And I mean, there's all those things you wouldn't wish, but with all that back of what I do to get hell, you know, do it again. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as a dad, as a parent, you would, right? And so, but that thing is a parent, you just gotta look. It's a, first of all, don't be ashamed cause it's a disease. It's like cancer or anything else. Right? I mean, it's, first of all, so, so, so first of all that second state. So don't get past that and go, the next thing is reach out and ask for help. And then people are willing to help. There's knowledgeable people and there's always a way there's always a way. Right. I mean, it's like with, you know, one of the, you know, with William, right? Cause we got to that night when that night go, how the heck. We're out of all, we're out of answers, right? And so we call this William, this guy, William, mom, he goes, hey, can you help us? He goes, let me try this. And so he got him to another place, right? And he went, he got me to Salsas, right? And so, which we all, I mean, Salsas is an incredible place, but, but it's like a call. I love that guy. I mean, but it's like, but it's just like you just gotta, you just gotta work at half faith and have hope. Yeah. I mean, where there's a will, there's a way. And it, and you know, I've said this a lot about these two, but you know, I've, I witnessed his at a front row seat and I've witnessed his through a lens and through stories, but it, you know, on the other end of what they went through is are these guys, right? So that gets me to look at somebody holding a sign at a lot differently now because I know that they have the ability to find that one way, you know, that one way and then sitting on the other side of that lies people who are going to be out here now fighting the good fight. And I applaud you for, and representing your wife as well because we get messages from people in addiction, you know, this makes me feel like I'm not alone. Yeah. And that's so important, but the other side of that, somebody is on the other side of that direct message, loving that addict or worried or caring. So it's parents, right? You got to be on the same page, right? And it's tough. I mean, because most of the time they're not one's, one is, one's wants to do do everything for them. The other one doesn't want to do anything. Mars and Venus. That's a real thing. So, but the thing is, it's like, like it's a real thing. You know, the good thing about here in America, you know, we're here, you know, come from Austin, Austin has a great community. Me really do. I mean, and so, you know, and I think that, you know, if anybody's listens to this as a parent and their child's going through it, just reach out, man, reach out, just say this the day I'm reaching out. Don't be scared. I mean, it's scary. Yeah. Because you don't know, you know, you don't know what you're walking through. But, but if you do nothing, nothing happens. Yeah. Nothing good's gonna happen. Yeah. Especially when probably. Yeah. There's so many resources like I didn't know. I mean, we've been doing this a year before it. I had no idea how many resources there are available and how many people will walk through hell to help out a fellow addict that's struggling, you know, and then now on the other side of that folks like yourself that had to go through it on the other side that will absolutely be a listening year or help someone out. That I mean, it's crazy. It was really eye-opening to me to watch that and witness that up close and personal. You don't think there's resources, but there are, there are, and it's not that hard to get in touch with someone who will help you out. It's, it's so fast. So well said. And, and again, couldn't you're, you're probably making somebody out there feel like they're not alone right now to on the other side. I mean, that's the reality. You're just not, I mean, there's, there's plenty of scoping up the phone or, or texts, I guess now go on Instagram or one of those, you know, any one of us like anybody. Yeah. So. Journey into sobriety for yourself. The last time. Yeah. So what, what, what was different going into 19 months ago when it seemed to have stuck? Okay. So just gravity got a lot heavier. I say that cause 18 months over this last, the last time I went to rehab was in Houston called the park. Did. So I was drinking. Actually, let me do before that, before the park. So before the park, when I first got to Houston, I got a job as a producers assistant on a movie in Alabama. And I was like, this is my big break. I got this job. I took my, I don't think anyone knew we were pregnant at that time, but she was newly pregnant, Taylor's newly pregnant with Sophia. I got my two step kids. We loaded up and we went to Alabama to, so I could do this. I got this job being a producers assistant. We get there. We're in Alabama far from Texas, far from home. I get there two weeks on the job. I was whatever I drank. And then before I know it, I went to jail. Our car got pounded. I got fired just like that. So that gravity, it wasn't just me anymore. It wasn't just me in these motels. It wasn't, I had two kids and a pregnant girlfriend. And it was, it was, it was horrible. That I, and then we were getting kicked out of our, cause we got set up at this apartment, got kicked out. So we had to go to a motel six and we were just, we got back through the help of family because that thing, so that stuck with me. So that was a, you know, okay, I'm to myself. I was like, okay, I'm going to stop. You know, that was a pretty big consequence. I'm going to just take a, you know, put a pin on this for now, get back to Houston. Um, we got back, obviously had a lot of, had a lot of making up to do, you know. Um, so, um, so Taylor's family owns this dive company that I've worked for on and off. So I went back to work with them. Then I drank, um, again, um, and then I went to the park. So what happened there is I spent 30 days there and I went, I remember going there because I couldn't go back to, um, Taylor's family's house. They weren't allowed, let me there because I got drunk while working, threatened the company, you know, lashing out what we do. Um, because I, I'm a swallower of anger and I do process it now in a lot healthier ways, but how I use the process things is I would swallow it down. I drink and then your people, whoever's around, it's going to get it. And it's not, it's not fun. Um, so that the gravity got so heavy, the responsibility. And I went to the park and I just had a real, real, um, you know, talk with myself. I remember I read Matthew Perry's book, um, from friends. He wrote, he wrote a book about like the big terrible thing or whatever about him, his journey in addiction. And it was really good. I related to him. He went to like four, like some, his numbers are sober living and stuff is insane. Yeah. And then he had it all. He, he was one point he had the number one movie in theaters. And then he also had them, one number one TV show with friends on the whole nine yards at the same time. So he was like Michael J. Fox level. Yeah. And just, and seeing how we handled love, like he couldn't accept when people loved him, like he dated like Julia Roberts and stuff that could never accept us. I related on such a level. So I made a vow to myself. I did the work there. You know, I did, you do, you have a temporary sponsor writer in this rehab. So I did, I did the work as hard as I, as I could, like my life depended on it. And I had a great experience and I just, I just ran with it. And ever since then I haven't drank. I haven't done any minor altering substances. Um, well, what I do now is, um, I believe I have a big purpose now. You know, my purpose is these kids. My purpose is Taylor. Um, my purpose is, um, cause I want them, I want, I want my kids to be proud of me. How I was proud to be, you know, my dad, my dad's son. I was so proud. Yeah. So proud of my family, you know, and, and that I love the, like, I've been listening to a lot of Rush also lately and they, their music is just so elevated to me and to my soul and just elevating has been such a keyword to me. Yeah. Like how can I elevate each thing that I'm in? Like how can I make things better? Instead of, instead of taking, cause I hated that feeling of being the scumbag that's like, you know, can I get a cigarette or just a merge? I just didn't like that feeling. I didn't like being the, you know, call my parents, go and walk in over to Popeyes after spending the night under a bridge, smoke and crack and say, Hey, come pick me up. I need to go to rehab again. Yeah. It was just getting old real fast. And I, I pray that everyone gets that moment of clarity or that real desperation of a drowning man, you know, so I was fighting for a long time and I'd actually, my mind would play so many tricks on me like that. I wasn't an addict. That wasn't alcoholic. So many tricks, you know, especially like I'll just be getting out of like my 18 three, maybe, you know, maybe I can drink this time. Yeah. You know, maybe I can, I don't know, pop this, this cratum stuff and see what that's all about. Yeah. Maybe it's, I mean, cause I couldn't accept not feeling anything else, but joy and satisfaction and warmth. I didn't like the struggle. It's the fear. I don't like comfort. Like there's so many things like non-confrontational, all of that me. Right. Yeah. So, but the journey began when I really decided I read Matthew Perry's book and I was at the park and listening to a bunch of nothing more and just spent a lot of time myself and I made the decision. Like I want to be a dad. Yeah. Cause I, I don't think anything someone, you know, you know, people who leave there cause I don't understand, you know, I step kids father. I don't understand them. I don't, you know, I just don't understand people like that. Yeah. It's the way like walking in after a long day's work and I feel like a rock star and everything, you know, I get that, I get that feeling, you know, that I've been seeking for for so long, you know, and it's, there's nothing better. That's what life is. That's what it is. It's purpose. And if it's not purpose, it's not through kids. If it's through a relate, if it's through, you know, spirituality through relationship, it's just a purpose. Every man, at least for sure a man, we were talking about this like I don't, I don't hands are a devil's playground. So I think if you're a young man and recovery and you have no idea what you're doing, get a job and construction. It, it's, it will, it will save you. Yeah. And it's also the guys, they're, they're great at passing time there. So it's nonstop rose fest. So even cause I'd, I'd always get butt hurt by stuff always, but this job toughen my skin a lot. Yeah. You know, it's like, Hey, dude, I love you, bro. I'm just messing with you. Yeah. Just take things so personally all the time. And yeah, I just killed a lot of myself, old self, a lot of my negative self. I had to kill it. I just had to and old habits die hard. Yeah. I used to work at X on mobile. And we used to burn the shit out of each other. Like that's what we do. Yeah. Like when you're in the, when you're in the Hoot or in the trailer, just waiting for the next job. I mean, it was just nonstop. It's probably the same in the locker room. I just burned the shit out of each other. Yeah. And, you know, I, I listened to this guy. You ever heard of Inky Johnson? Yeah. Inky Johnson always says that it's got to be bigger than you. It's got to be more than adjust yourself. And that's what it was for me. And it sounds like that's what it was for you. That's what kind of clicked. It's for me. If, if I was trying to get sober just for me, I know that in the program, they say, you got to do it for yourself. If I only did it for myself, I wouldn't be sober. Yeah. I had to do it for my daughter first. And then it became about me because I realized, oh, I'm a better person this way. So now I can be a better person for everybody. And I think that's so important because that's something he always says is if it's just about you, it's real easy to quit when the shit gets hard. It's like, oh, fuck this. I don't want to deal with this today. But now you got a girlfriend, a wife. You got kids. Now you got people that are depending on you to show up every single day. And those selfish tendencies, I can't be selfish anymore because it's not about me anymore. It's about my daughter. Right. And you have, I don't know your dad. I just met him today, but you have a prime role model, an example of how to be a dad. And I say that just because of what you said, like you don't look back and regret anything that I want to inspire to be that too. As a dad, because I can't imagine like continuously putting your son through rehabs and then just not even holding a little grudge from it. Like just this is just what I did. Like this is my job. So what I do, that's what you're giving me. That's part of, you know, cause we're all, you know, have like God has a plan for all of us. Yeah. Right. So, and this is just part of our journey. Right. And, you know, I just didn't know anything about it. You start right? Yeah. You just, you don't know, right? You kind of live and you learn, you know, things about regret, regret, you know, hanging on to stuff, right? It doesn't, you got to forgive, move on. Not accomplishing anything. It doesn't accomplish anything. It's not good for anything. And, but, you know, one thing I do say about Raven, but he was always willing at the point to go back to rehab. Right. And I think that that's a point that I didn't, I mean, do we force him? No. But do we help? You get help, but he always did it, right? Yeah. That's one thing that also if you're out there struggling, just go back to rehab. Right. If you're on the street right now, or if you're, I mean, if you're at somebody's house listening to this, I mean, just jump back in the game, right? Yeah. Cause you just don't know what that, that one road, that one road will take you down. Right. And, and, but if you stop and give up to your point, you don't want to be isolated, right? That's horrible. Well, you meet one person too in a different place. It's like, uh, you, you hear a lot of these recovery stories and kind of what changes, it always seems like there's either a moment, like a little tiny moment that happens for him, or there's a different person there. Like that just makes it a lot more tangible. I guess for you, um, kind of like what I was saying about meeting Mike, it was like soulmate kind of situation. Yeah. But if you go into rehab and you find that soulmate, that might be in the 18th one that you go into, man, like it might be in the fourth. You know, it's always goes back to the same, right? Who you surround yourself with, right? Yeah. Your success too. Right. It's important, right? And, and, and we know there's not good people out there. Right. And don't have good intentions. All right. I mean, and you got to use this hermit at some point to be pulled that way or get out of that way. Right. And, um, you know, because it's like, you know, sitting here, you're sober, right? This is what you'll want. You're fighting every day to be sober. Right. I mean, and that's a good, some people don't want to be sober. Right. Yeah. You know, some people want to use that as excuse to go do bad things. Right. And, um, and that's not good either. That's not right. Right. And so, um, so I think that, I think that to your point, it's, it's good to have people in your life that want to help. Right. But at the same time, you got to, you got to give too. Right. You've got to, you've got to really want to change. You really want to do the things to do it because it's too a street, right? So I think with Raven, you know, there's been some rough, there's always definitely some rough times, but, but I do think the spirit when you know somebody inside who he really is, right? Yeah. Yeah. To your point, as a dad, you aspire to get, look, you kind of aspire what you want your kids to be. You got to get inside what you think they're going to become. Right. And not always, they always do that. But for Raven, you know, he's always been, you know, he's always been like incredible. He's a very filling guy, right? He's in touch with his emotions, right? He's, he's very sensitive. And his heart's always good, always has been good. He wants to help. It just this, this, you know, this thing that he's fighting with it's a jackal on high thing. Right. He's sober. He's incredible, most incredible person when he's not, he's not. I mean, it's bad. Right. Yeah. But that's what I'm saying, but you can't. That's the battle. You can't. That's always the battle. Don't don't even put yourself or put yourself in that situation to even take that risk anymore, right? Because that's not going to change. Now, I believe God come and heal people. I believe it because I've seen it, but at the same time is that also you got to use wisdom, right? Yeah. And you got to know, hey, I cannot open this door. Whatever reason, I cannot open this door because I know what's on the other side. It ain't going to change. It ain't going to get any better. Yeah. It's going to be the same dark darkness over there. It's not that darkness is always going to change. It's going to be there, right? Yeah. You just got to, you got to cut it. You got to, you got to, it's got to like a poor, right? You got to cut that poor. Yeah. Hey, this guy right here, one of our earlier episodes, you were like, I respect my disease. My disease is like, I keep it locked in a cage and it's a roided up dude. That's like, he's ready to go. I love the way that you put that. That was like, that was excellent. You know, because I have to, because like, if I feel like I'm living in fear of my disease, then it's like, I'm just sitting there waiting for the inevitable to happen for just to reappear. Yeah. You know, instead of like, because like, I've told people before, you know, I'm a little over two years now, like two years in a month. And I told someone at like nine, nine, 10 months, I was like, I'm never going to use again. And the person looked at me and said, don't you ever say that? I'm like, why not? And it's not coming from a place of cockiness. It's coming from a place of like pure true surrender, which sometimes is done on a daily basis. Sometimes, you know, speak what you want. I mean, you speak out and look, words are powerful. Yeah, speak what you want. Don't be, I would never, I'd never say that. I mean, look, I'm going to be sober. Look, I'm going to walk in victory. All right. I mean, I'm going to conquer this, right? Now you still have to do all the stuff. You can't isolate yourself. Right. Yeah. But to speak it. Yeah. I mean, that's how that's, that's words are powerful. The way I looked at it is like I retired from my using career. I retired. Yeah. That's a good thing. You know, they probably got, they probably got my jersey hanging up somewhere. Yeah. Right now. All the way from the power lines. Yeah. You had a good one, Jacob. It's time to hang it up. And that's, that's, that's kind of the enough's enough's point. You know, like enough was enough. Like I can continue and can be 60 years old. If I even made it that far, which the route I was going, I wasn't going to make it many more much longer. Yeah. Yeah. I think of that all the time, especially with just in my twenties, just thought I was invincible. You know, thought these drugs wouldn't hurt me. I'm not going to be that guy. Yeah. You know, goalposts moving man. And then all this crazy how this, I've lost a lot of friends this year. But you know, like Rogers is a huge one. He's a he's a solstice guy. I love that guy. I've known him for a while. That one, that one shocked me because he knew so much about the book. He knew so much how to help people. He knew so much how I remember I went to rent. He was working at ranch house when I went there for the first time. I was so in it, man, just crying in my bed and not believe I was in another rehab again. And he brought me up. He came to get like, because Rogers is not working. He's like one of the funniest human spat, like one of the craziest human beings ever in my life. But when he's war, when he was working, I was like, man, you, you are a special person. Like he was a special person to me and helped me so much in my recovery. And just stuff like that makes me have such huge respect for it now when I had just no respect for my disease, no respect for, you know, alcohol can't kill me. I can't, you know, I can't or this, this combination won't kill me or it's, I'm so thankful that I'm here and I'm alive. And because we are very fragile, we're humans. Our egos and our pride like to tell us that we're way bigger than that. You know, ego and pride can be very scary in many ways. It can look like holding onto something for a reason not to get sober or this is why, you know. So just the fact that just like addiction is just a grip that just you always have. And then finally, when you have the amount of clarity, it's just, you know, you just release and I want to build on it. You know, I want to build on this, man. I built such a cool foundation. I have a house, man. I have a house that I pay for. I've a, I've two cars, you know, like I don't want, I can lose that so fast. Yeah. And I'm making mistakes in sobriety for the first time, which is I say the first time always not, I don't ever set myself up to make mistakes in sobriety. Yeah. I've done a bunch of stuff in my sobriety that I've, you know, which I didn't do, but you know, I'm learning now, you know, those are going to be big moments. I want you to take a, outside looking in really appreciate those mistakes that you're making and you're not running back. Yeah. Because that's to me, that's bigger than almost anything that you're saying right now because it's like a conduit, right? Like that drug is a path of least resistance or the alcohol, the drink of alcohol is a path of least resistance when something hard happens. And you're, you're good where you don't have to do it. You've lost friends. You've lost a brother. I mean, brother, that's big. That's big for you. I always liked the easiest, softest way. Everybody is soft with the easiest, softest way. That's where I like to, that's where I like to cuddle up. You know, a warm, fuzzy blanket. And I remember my first winter rehab, the thing, there's something on the wall that terrified me. It says life begins at the end of your comfort zone. Oh, no, I'm going to have to get uncomfortable. Yeah. I'm uncomfortable. Every day is uncomfortable. You know, got kids screaming, you know, work and, but when it's, when it's all done, when I come home at nine, everything's done, the, you know, the, you know, the work is done, the, all the hard work we've done, we saw and I come home, the kids are happy. And I know that I did what had to do the day, the bills are going to be paid. There's not a better feeling as a man in the world, not better than just having that sense of accomplishment as a man, whatever that may look like is so important. So whatever that is, find that dream, which I think it's awesome. You know, like Jay Klein, doing that life coaching and stuff to help these young men, you know, not just about recovery, but like life. Let's not, let's not talk about our life. Like what do you want to do? You know, people would ask me that all the time. I don't know. Cause I thought everything was lined up for me. I thought I was going to be the- It's almost as much mass. There's something else? I don't know. Yeah. Cause you get so lost in self, self is a dialogue in your head. You know, you can tell it to shut up every once in a while and yeah, it does good doing that. I got so delusional. Like I was doing heroin and I thought I could still accomplish all my dreams and goals. Like I'm, I'm gonna do the heroin and I'm going to be, I'm going to be a music star very soon. I'm not going to the studio and not performing, but I'm not writing songs anymore. I quit writing songs. I'm going to be at one day. It's just going to come to me. You know, it is, yeah? For real. I thought so. I thought I could just, yeah. Will it? Can I, can we, can we go back to something real quick? Yeah. Um, you said something and I just kind of want to get your mindset on it because I'm big on mindset and like, I think sometimes in like recovery, especially, I don't know where were you? I don't know your subardium if it totally matters to a degree, but I think it does too. When you left your job at clean cause, was there, was that, that was on a whim? Essentially kind of. Oh yeah. She got my girlfriend up pregnant. Okay. So she was already pregnant at the time. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I know that. He just starting up and met some chicken like, peace. I thought you were just moving. Okay. No. So it was a, it was a hell marry really, man. Okay. Well, that's still good though. It's the process like, cause like what was going through your mind? Cause you know, sometimes in recovery, people will offer so many suggestions and don't do this or don't do that or give it a year or don't give it a year or do your nilies and then, then you know, and then sometimes that can create more confusion than it's like, am I relying on self? It's just God's will. My will. So yeah. Yeah. I've, I know what that's like a hundred percent like thing. Like what are the rules and engagements with the, you know, relation with anything, especially an earlier recovery and sobriety. So with that, I was actually, I did what I wasn't, so I was always suggested things that I take it and I, you know, I would, this is the way. I just felt it in my heart, man, that, that this sober house that I was living, it was a great sober house. They wouldn't let me go. They wouldn't give me a weekend pass. Right. And I said, asked Taylor if I could live with them and work. And they said, yes. So once I got that spot, I said, I'm, this is either that my hell Mary pass. I'm going there and I'm going to, because we talked a lot before getting together me and Taylor, like on the phone in a sober house. So with, with relation, I don't know that is a tricky question because sometimes if that's all you're thinking about and that's all you want, and that becomes your, you know, your higher power and your main thing then sobriety is going to go to the wayside. I think there was just so much passion with what I wanted to do. And I had so much, so many like, so like this person is going to, I feel like she's really going to be good for me. And I feel like this situation is better than the situation I'm in right now, which is a great one. I got a great job at clean cause. But in my heart and I just knew like I fell in love with her. I fell in love with the store. My heart broke for those kids. I got abandoned that she had and I don't know. It was just kind of a perfect storm. And then everything played itself out how it was supposed to. I, I went there and I fell on my face a couple of times, but I didn't have my parents pick me back up or anyone. I had to pick myself back up on myself, you know, like I, because they know it's like when I, you know, oh, we realized he did that. Okay. These people don't like I realized I took their company van. I took it to the mall and drank and they didn't know where the company van was, you know, so. You went to the mall to drink. Yeah. Cheesecake factory. Yeah. The lights, you know, it's dimly lit. Um, but yeah, those, those suggestions, I, I do, I have gone caught in sober livings, um, like to a point where I'm paralyzed, like, cause I've got all these suggestions, like am I not supposed to do anything? Am I supposed to be this a robot, this recovery robot? Or can I, you know, see what's out there? Definitely see what's out there. Right. But definitely if you have a sponsor, talk to your sponsor about it. Um, there, there appears to whatever. But for me, it was like a, I don't know. It was like my last, it was my last shot. Yeah. It was my last shot at, I didn't know how many my uncle would tell me this all the time. Um, he said, I don't know how many more recoveries I have left. Yeah. You know, I can, I can drink, you know, that, but I don't have any more recoveries I have left. Right. Cause it, it's takes a lot of resiliency to get back up, especially if you're, you know, 10, 15, 20th time offender of, you know, going to rehab, so we're living. You have to have resilience. And I think, I thank God for that. Every day there's answers giving me, you know, through my family, my parents, I've, you know, had great parents that told me all these great morals and just took me, I had to learn the hard way. I, I don't suggest that being the way to learn things, but sometimes it is for people and I just pray that you don't die trying to learn, you know, whatever lesson you're trying to learn and hope. And I pray that you get out of it alive. Yeah. I think everybody's different for sure. Yeah. You know, I think in your case, you probably see, you felt something different with Taylor and you're like, you know what, I'm just a fucking, just, I'm just going to do it. Even though like we're not, we're told like, don't get a relation for your year. This is a no, no. I don't have sex for a year. All that stuff. Right. And, but you took a whim and you just did it and fucking it probably made you feel different than probably what anything in sobriety has ever made you feel. You know, a child, especially with children, like that's your dad can attest to that, like there's nothing better than being a dad. Nothing like that. And I know, like when you're talking about, I can see the joy that you have right now in the happiness. And I wanted to ask you, how does that make you feel now seeing where he is now compared to like all the ups and downs, all the ups and downs, like seeing the man that he is today. No, it's, uh, it's like a pure joy inside. Yeah. Because it's just, you know, before, because that's all, look, you're only as happy as, as your happiest kid. Yeah. That's, man, that's, it's just the way it is. That's a great quote. Yeah. Man. And, and, you know, and, and so like right now, right today, you gotta look at it. Oh my guys and daughter-in-laws and girls and all the grandkids, everybody's good. That is a wonderful, happy place to be at. Yeah. A joyful place. You know, and that's the reason you do all the things you do to get to this. You get to, you get to, um, and I pray for people to get to this point. You have, and I'm not going to feel guilty about it either. Right. I mean, it's, uh, it's, it's a little, you know, there's a lot of work, a lot of sacrifice, a lot of pain. I'd say you earned it. You earned it. Right. So I'm going to enjoy it. I'm going to let people steal it. Right. Yeah. I'm going to steal the joy, right? Because people, you know, people sometimes have that capacity and want to take your joy, right? Right. Right now it's very joyful. It's, it's, it's a very happy, freeing, fulfilling, fulfilling, right? Cause it's a father. Like that's in a day. It's like, he knows, I didn't, you know, if they want to play football, they're going to play football. I didn't put pressure on them to do it. I wanted them to do what they wanted to do, but do it the right way. They get up, work hard, you know, the whole pop on a coach, hard work pays off. Right. Work pays off. It's a, like, if you go out and you work hard every day, do the right thing, you know, and, and think the best of people, usually a lot of things work out pretty well. And, um, and that's as, you know, as a father, that's all I wanted. You know, right now it's kind of all the boys are doing that. I mean, they're all, they're all kind of in a good place right now. That's, that's, that's a great feeling. Yeah. I can piggyback off him saying like, yeah, he didn't, he wasn't a father. Like, this is what you have to do. Is what I did. Yeah. Well, what we wanted to do is he had, we knew, I knew from a very young age, hearing from my brothers that he has a all-time lean tackling record at university of Texas. All we're boys competitive, wanting to fall in the footsteps of our role models. So it was never, you know, this is what you have to do. They were great. Let us, uh, very open minded with what we wanted to do. But when we all wanted to play and it was, that was, that was a lot of fun. Y'all, we all got scholarships. They didn't have to pay. So it was, uh, that was a great thing, right? I mean, because have the, although we didn't push it, but it was the all, they all went to their different level of colleges, right? Different and got their, had the opportunity. Now some finished, some didn't. Yeah. But that's their choice, but they had that opportunity, right? And, um, we're all set up for it for sure. It's all set up for, I mean, it's like, you know, the experience when he was a, a blend, right? It's the same amount to, you know, it's, he was playing defensive tackle and I had to move him to a tight end. Right. And so depressing. So he was playing tight. I was happy. He was on the field, right? Yeah. Then he jumped off size. Like, what? So many, like three or four times. Cause he's a defensive lineman. Yeah. Switched to tight angle. I go, yeah. I said, no, not surprised about that. Yeah. I mean, we, you're ready to go. Right. Yeah. It was a defensive lineman, right? Yeah. You got the trigger, right? So you had to retrain as a, as a, as a tight end, but, but you know, but it was, that was an experience for all of us. Cause all those kids, right? I mean, all those stories, I mean, one's playing at the Cowboys right now. Yeah. Yeah. With the receiver. We had a D, we had Ed Westbrook there. I had a, one of them, the Fawtwo brothers, they were on my team too. One of them is actually in the, I don't know if he's in AEW or one of the, like, he's fall because his dad was a, I don't want to butcher his name, but he was, uh, his last name was Fawtwo and he was a Jacob Fattu. Yeah. He's part of the dynasty. Yeah. So Jacob Fattu is in WWE. Yeah. It was WWE. Yeah. Cool. So it was great. It was like, I loved it, man. It was like going, going there and see, and he goes, man, these guys are, these guys are really good. Yeah. Yeah. Then they had the whole busing, right? I had all the places I had to bus to. Like, I mean, the sacrifice. I mean, like these long bus trips. You know, because. Glenn has some of the best of the best. They did. So, so those are, like everybody, like I said, goes back to their experience. But, but again, you know, it was his choice to, because we know, cause he, you know, it was funny as he got moved to tie it in and. Art Browls at Baylor, uh, Bryce's when Bryce was at Baylor playing. Art Browls calls me. He goes, I think he needs to be the center. Okay. I'm gonna be a real good center. Tell me, get moved to center. Right. And, uh, he goes, I think he'd be a great center. Yeah. Because he had, he was right size. Right. Yeah. The thing. And so, but it was funny. But I mean, you know, they didn't work out because. You know, fighting, fighting the, you know, fighting this demon. Yeah. Life. Life got lifey, man. But it's like. Exactly. But it's good to look, look, it's good that people believed it. I mean, we're fighting for you. No, you know, look, you just. I don't look at his neck. I look at his deposit because that's what he thought. Right. So you, you had the tools, you do it, but you know what didn't work out. Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, one thing about football is for everybody. Exactly. Right. It's for everybody. Right. Yeah. So at some point and some get to play it longer than others, but you know, it. Does it. And, you know, and, and, um, it's football is not your friend either because, because there's a lot of things it's, it's hard. I mean, things happen at that time. I mean, injuries and, you know, yeah. So it's, so it's, it's, it's not a, it's not an easy sport. Well, I'll tell you this, that I, I, you know, he did have all the tools to play football for sure. You come from good stock, but I think you were meant for something bigger than that. And, and you can play this role as long as you want. And it's going to be so much more, um, fulfilling and, um, and. I'm proud of you both for what it's worth. Thank you. You know, um, just coming on here and, and sharing your story and the two perspectives bouncing them off. I can tell that you came from a great family and, um, I can tell that you've created a great family and, um, sharing these stories coming on here. We make it look really easy. You guys make it look really easy, but it's not. And, um, I know to your point, you're moving forward, you know, and we're bringing up a lot of stuff in the past, but we're doing that with purpose behind it and that's to help people out. Oh, look, I said you learned from the past, right? Yeah. It's what I learned. I mean, you know, and I hope you might listen, you might not, but like, it is what it is, right? I mean, it's like, this is not a, this journey is not easy. Yeah. It's not. I mean, it's just not, right? I mean, but at the same time, there's hope because you know what? A lot of good people, a lot of people have a lot of talent. A lot to your point, have a lot to offer to the world. I mean, and so just keep fighting a good fight. Well, good. Well, I think we got another fantastic episode here in the can. I can't thank you guys enough. Uh, we would love for you to sign our wall of graffiti over here. Absolutely. And, um, and I would like you to put your brother in law's name up there too. Oh, we'll do that. Thank you so much. Yeah, for sure. So, um, how do people find you? Um, they can find me, um, on, um, Instagram, uh, Raven Hager with two Y's. And, um, I'll also have a tick talk. Okay. What about you dad? What you got going on pro score? Talk about pro score? Oh, pro score because it's on the business side. I'm a serious entrepreneur. Uh, let's get it. And, uh, an entrepreneur world, right? There's some good ones and some bad. But it's always trying to do something. You know, I like creating something for nothing. Yeah. Sometimes it's hard, hard. And this one was actually been pretty, been the easier one because it reached back to people that you work with in the past. They were good people, worked hard, didn't have to babysit, right? And talented. And so as we know, everybody hears about this, what's inflation reduction act out there, the, or the clarity, the clean new deal or whatever. But, but it's a law. I mean, it's bipartisan law. And, and so with it, there's requirements that need to be tracked. So we built the platform to allow the track those requirements. So it's a rec tech platform company. Okay. For the inflation reduction act. Awesome. So, well, it's a pro score. They, they, uh, we use all the greatest and latest tools, right? Machine learning. Yeah. Yeah. You know, blockchain. I mean, it's all there. So, so, but it's, it's great. It's a changing world. Um, I mean, I got to change with it. Got to change with it. You know, sometimes you hear all the scary stories and scary, but you know, fears are not good. I mean, fears are, you know, don't need to live your life. Absolutely. Well said. Well said. Well, uh, episode 44. Thank you guys so much. Uh, Raven, thank you guys. Great. You guys are part of the two addicts and more on world now. Oh, that's a good thing or bad thing, but, uh, but, uh, we're going to accept you and if there's anything that we can do to help. And you need us for anything we'll come running and the doors always open for you, your wife, your brothers, anybody they want to come check it out. They don't have to hop on the couch and be that brave or brazen. They can just hang out on one of those seats back there and check it out. I would love to have you guys back anytime. Appreciate it. Thanks for having us. And look, this is a, this is neat. I mean, you got to talk about it. You know, you got to communicate. Look, we was talking about early about how box podcasts really, you know, podcast chains the way of the election, right? Absolutely. Right. Look, listen to change sobriety. Yeah. I think this is a way to, where the chain starts. Absolutely. I appreciate that. Yeah. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Well, uh, two addicts and a moron 44. We're out of here.