Freddy Madball Part 2: 1995 - 2026

Something I've been saying for years and I'll say to the new generation. I love the new music that's coming out I love all these new bands. I love that they're all doing their own thing and There's so much freedom to do your own thing But don't forget where this comes from don't forget the roots of the music and the bands like agnostic front who literally Paved the rose that we all walk on Hello welcome, it's our Lord time welcome back to part two of this incredible two-part special with the great Freddie mad ball if you haven't watched last week go back and check it out We get into finding hardcore at seven years old through agnostic front and his brother Roger We talked about starting mad ball when he was 12 ball of destruction Dropping many suckers and of course the great debut LP set it off now this week part two We start right around 1995 when mad ball played the legendary Dynamo open-air Fest enjoy March 6 1995 mad ball plays Dynamo in Einhoven, Netherlands. Yeah, big one Certified Guinness book biggest one big eggs Guinness book largest crowd in the history of the world What was Crazy when you put it like that. I mean big crowd I say I mean I Watched it last night because I wanted to to make sure I got one thing right that I'm gonna ask you about that I've been wanting to talk to you specifically about 20 years Sure, um first before we get to that like what was that like It is the biggest sea of people I've ever seen in my life. It was shocking man to be honest because Like we're just coming up, you know, like we're just yeah, we're a new band 95 We're a new band like we're like even though like people think like oh, yeah, that's prime mad mommy We're just we're like just figuring ourselves out still like we just dropped set it off like we're still figuring this out I don't feel like I was Like as a front person where I'm at now is different like everything, you know like it like you know You grow you evolve you figure you figure you figure this thing out. We were green man. We were green We had never played a I don't think we had ever played a festival to be quite honest like we had well, I don't like Not only was it one of the bigger shows we had ever played to that up to that point as mad ball, but it was Massive man, well many bands say it's the biggest show they've ever played. Yeah, that is the biggest show We've ever played still and we've gotten the you know good fortune To play a lot of big cool festivals. Yeah, I mean we've been on festivals together But like that one was something else that one's crazy that one was something else I think I attribute that show a lot and not not not to knock MAD They were our agent at the time and I Think that road runner played a heavy role in the reason we played that show We were on road runner. We were in like big company of people and if you look at that lineup, it's it's crazy Yeah, it's basically road runner fast. Yeah, basically So yeah, it was crazy man, and we were just like it was Horrible like we were horrible. Yeah, well, I read you were sick as a dog. I was sick as a dog. I was like I was probably the last time I was sick But no, I mean no, I You know like it was just one of those things where like The road yeah flying there, you know eating poorly drinking too much and We hung out with the business. I think the night before that's gotta be some real part of your played like London Underworld or something which we still play and uh They were like hey, we're off to do this festival tomorrow. I wonder what that's gonna be like and they're like, oh, yeah Good luck, you know like and you know and then like we drive through the night from England Because I'm wearing a bit. I'm pretty sure I'm wearing a business shirt. I think you start in a business I started a big shirt and end up. Yeah, I was ending up my shirt off. Just wrote some days are over I don't do that anymore, but back then that was commonplace Yeah, we were hanging out with our homies and we had you know, we had become friends with those guys great guys I mean Legends in their own right and and and so I was like feeling like Terrible all of a sudden I woke up and I'm like great. We're about to play this festival. I've never done a festival We've never done a show this big But I still didn't know the scope of how big it was gonna be I'm thinking it's gonna be a festival. It's gonna be a lot of people. Okay. They're gonna be scattered about And they're not gonna give two shits about us. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking in my head not to be negative But I'm being realistic sure They get me out of my bunk. I'm sleeping a lot because it was a long night and also I feel like crap and They're like, all right, man. You got to play like Early, you know, because we're like, you know, I don't know when our set time was but it was in the day And uh, yeah, go I walk out there. I don't think I saw the amount the people until it was time to play Holy shit. I don't think I even peaked. Oh, no So I get my stuff together my shorts put my shorts on I get ready for You know for stage and I walk up and I look Like what? Yeah, like and they're there Yeah, yeah, you know, like, you know, like they're they're all the way smashed to the front. So it's not like they're Back and scattered and getting food and like, yeah, you know, what's this band gonna, you know They're there ready for us. And so yeah, we we just went we did what we do, man And it was just like we treated it like just a hardcore show Wow, also we're gonna treat it and speaking of that and this is the thing I wanted to talk to you about About halfway through you play crucify. Yeah um A couple guys come out and hold a mad ball flag And then they sing along The song gets derailed a little bit Do you recall? Well, the guys were nicky the knife and ingo. Okay, ingo. Nicky the knife was one of our guys, of course With a name like nicky the knife He I wonder who gave me. Yeah, he's actually a guy who grew up with will shepler in Pittsburgh but he moved to new york and He's a homie He was on the road with us great guy um Ingo was our friend from germany one of the berlin crew And old timer old and he was on the road with us doing I don't know what I can't remember exactly. I don't think he was doing anything. I think he was just hanging out, but They carried it and then are you talking about when the guy's saying there? I don't know. Yeah, I couldn't tell if it was those two guys singing But someone came up and took hoya's mic. Yeah and started singing but started too early Yeah, so there's hitting the chorus over the lat the second half of the verse. Yeah It derails everybody stops. Yeah at the end of the set you say Meet me after the fucking show Oh my god, and I just want to know where where we meet where we meet What was that on stage or I think that happened when I was down with the mic like they could grab like I think Someone's I feel like someone snagged the mic from somewhere me or whatever And like sang it all wrong, but yes it derailed the song. I got that time. We were super touchy I just we had never done this. Yeah. Yeah, and like we're being put on this huge, you know the biggest pedestal like this huge platform to play and like We're nervous and you know You know, yeah, yeah I was like no asshole. I was like it's it's okay to sing along but like Get it right. Don't mess up the song. I forgot what I now the reason you meet me. I don't know what I said There's stupid kid kid stuff. Don't be the reason I even bring it up is not even to laugh about it's funny though It is funny. I hear it is and I'm glad you can look at it that way, but it is it is actually to Um give an example of the fact that you treated it like a hardcore show. Oh, yeah Yeah, it's fucking derailed that happens. We knew nothing else. You know what I mean? I mean chords were flying out of speakers We didn't have long enough chords Yeah, there's no wire clearly didn't have wireless. I mean they they probably exist. Yeah, they probably existed But we didn't have them. There was a sure prototype Yeah, exactly. I think biohazard had him. Yeah, we didn't have him. Um, well, he's got a spin. We're the poor guys We were wild man. Like it was like, you know, the guy's coming across with the little teeny banner this big Everybody's not like it's immortalized though. Everybody's got banners the size of this room You know, but like we were like we were just like that's what we were man. And like I think It wasn't our best show I didn't feel my best wasn't the best uh smoothest roll out But people still talk about that show and like in a fun way like in a positive way, which is like, okay, cool Hey, good mad ball of dynamo is like an iconic. Yeah What put a lot of people on to our band and and and I see I meet people all the time that are like I I know about you guys from dynamo. You're the only guy who played that stage who's slamming on stage who's slam dancing You know what I mean? I didn't even I didn't even set it off starts and you're fucking you're going for it You're the only person, you know, yeah, I didn't think about that. I think about it That's an important thing if and if you didn't know if you're not from that world and don't know that I guess you're like What's what's this guy doing? What's this guy doing? Should we talk about mashing real quick? A perfect perfect segue. Okay Moshing Uh What an insane evolution it had from the early 80s to even now The the rise of like the karate mashing in our core. Yeah Do you do you watch that happen in real time? Yeah, for sure. Who do you attribute to as the uh, the innovators of mashtile? Like modern Modern and you know late 80s 90s. Who are the guys who set who you saw? Minus is one of them. So minus the sovereign in the mix of that kevin um Who do you think who is the first guy you ever saw spin kick? That I don't know We'd love that. We'd love to ask people who would have been there, you know I definitely remember like that started coming into play because I remember watching people Mosh the old you know the older days and I was younger watching and like, you know I was always intrigued by that mashing and stage. I who isn't the best who is it? You know, I mean like people watch was like What better than to like watch people do that? But that's way more creepy crawl kind of a circle Mutual slamming rather than like yeah, yeah, and there were guys there were guys that were great at that John Watson, right? Like yeah, I've heard you've heard his name. Yeah He was a standout guy from like the earlier period Funny funny thing is though like John Watson was dancing the last time we played Brooklyn That's what it's all about. John Watson gets it in that's what he looks great And he's like has aged really well and like because he's like my brother's generation So he's like they're like 10 12 whatever years older than me He's an older cat, you know, and that's like a cosine that that's awesome because he doesn't necessarily, you know Have to be into our type our band like but He is he like supports all like the newer bands Like you know to him were you active in the pit? I was I was sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, not like All the time but like I would get out there for sure when you're mashing during mad ball every time Well, yeah, there's that but Like a friends band or like if something af of course or like, you know Crown of thorns when they first came out. I danced a lot um Killing time if they ever came on like if it Yeah gets me going. Gotcha. Yeah, I'm out there. Were you at the killing time last show at seabees in 1990? No, I was not there. That's a great. That's a great show. Isn't it unbelievable? That's a great great great show. I had a tape back. I wish I was yeah, yeah, me too. Yeah, I have a tape Or I had a tape back in the day that was that set and then a mad ball set but not the same show, right, right, right But just coincidentally it was yeah, that that show just like was awesome Yeah, it was like everything about it was was you know, they sounded great people were like the reaction was great It was that was awesome. It's one of the awesome But yeah, there's certain bands that would get me going. Okay. Yeah to answer your question. Yes. Yes, and then modern Wash guys. Yeah, I mean like from like Early 90s that i'm thinking like guys that stand out. Yeah, I mean there were I mean then there were guys Okay, so there was this guy Danny was a guy. I don't remember his last name. There was a guy named Danny Who's that kind of like a Bulkier guy I've danced really hard. Danny. I'm sorry. I can't remember your last name And then there was this other cat It was like an Asian cat but like Darker complexion. So I don't know where he would have been from not Philip. I don't know if you've been in philippina I'm not sure And we had a lot of like philippina homies chinese homies, but like I don't I didn't know him like that But he would do a lot of kicks And He wore like a black bandana and like black. He like dressed in black He had like a style like he was like and I can't remember this guy's name I want to like hopefully like we'll dig him up and find out who he is, but That dude got it in. Okay in the 90s that you would always see him Dancing and like kicking and doing stuff and then like your usual suspects that I named from various bands Would jump in there and dance and uh, who else who else rap bones Cannot cannot go unmentioned actually rap bones is originally a detroit guy Who moved to new york and was very very very much In the mix Diving from crazy angles and just like getting it in So, yeah, yeah, there was some guys I love it now. I did the spin. I did a lot of that I kind of like that move like that came in in the 90s like the swirling the spinning of the arm Oh, like the windmill the windmill deal. Yeah, I like that one. I did I utilize that one. I utilize that I'm in a bow hazard video doing that. Okay If you play if you if you pay close attention to Is it shades of gray? The paris directed? Probably shades of gray. It wasn't the onyx one. I was there for the onyx one, but I didn't get in the video But I think you see me and like rick 25 and like Maybe kevin like just there's a few of us dancing And I'm doing like uh, you see me kind of doing like my like detached arm. I love it. Yeah. Yeah The new york hardcore documentary Yeah, such an Fascinating look into this time How how do you reflect on its legacy and have you revisited it since that time? I mean, I haven't watched it all the way through. I'll see clips pop up like online And I mean it I mean it was I have fond memories of it. It was like a really good time It was like the contrast of like that um moment Versus when we like I said when we first started playing yeah, like when we played nyu to like 25 people. Yeah, um That was like in a few couple a few years It was a big change. I mean you're like a band in that. Yeah, they documented that like that that that You know, uh frank put that together right frank pavich did that one and then good guy too and uh Yeah, and no one was like doing documentaries. Yeah, you know and like but there was definitely a resurgence and someone had the Bright idea to document it and it was great. It was at like coney allen high, right? Yeah So coney allen high was dope. What a show. Yeah, July 29th 1995. So like three months after Uh dino same year. Yeah crazy year and also kind of the definition of a hardcore band Is you can go and play dynamo Go and play coney island and you don't change what what you do. No, it's the same shit. We only knew we were like we knew what we knew Yeah, and this is a year after you're saying 50 people are coming to see you And probably you know people have had time to digest set it off. Yeah And here it is. Yeah, we were playing little scrappy places in new york for the first little bit like you know Besides like the af shows or like bigger shows When we would try to play on our own it was pretty like You know, we played like uh, yeah the scrap yard and Avenue b and like we played like and why you some weird thing and so yeah, but but 94 ish 95 All the sudden the scene wakes up. Yeah. Yeah, and then like I said then there's like Crown of thumb warrants comes in bulldoze comes in 25 to live which Speaking of you know with bulldoze invented the I think in beat down 100. Yeah. Yeah, I just got to clear that up because I see I mean, there's always like stuff that you see written and they're like, I don't like I don't know that's accurate like like we were talking something about us. I don't know if it's on apple I don't know what what platform it's on it is on apple. It says that and you're just like you got to change that because I never Considered us a beat down hardcore band. We're hardcore band. I mean, I know we've been called tough guy hardcore Which is also corny We're just we're just madbomb, bro. Like just deal with it. You know, like, you know, like it's really definitive I'm sorry, man. Like it's not traditional like a like as traditional as like early af. It's not this it's not that it's just It's just what we do. But it's like stop trying to give us all these like Additional titles like subtitles like, you know, like we're not we're not beat down beat down is bulldoze Like when they did that stuff Everyone was doing different stuff And I love that and that should always be the case And they were the ones that were like And I was like that's pretty dope Like, okay, go ahead. Go, you know, you think Go ahead and do that, you know, yeah, and I danced to plenty of bulldoze shows Um, so yeah in the they'll be done bit not us. Okay in the documentary I think you present yourself really really well I do you're like a young guy in the interview in the interview. Oh, I think you're very like eloquent I feel like I was shy you and ezek. I think you're like you're the you're like you're like the young guys We're just like, yeah, he's he's like, I don't even like hardcore. I like the cranberries But You got you come off really well. Well, thank you and then to see I was thought I felt awkward I looked awkward like anytime I look back on that. I'm like, I'm so you have the great shot. You're 19 You're 19. I was I was awkward. I'd never really been like in that kind of You know on a documentary they give you the best shot. You're like you're on the water. That's a cool shot. It's awesome Yeah, that's a cool shot. But then the show me with my dog, right? Yeah, I go. Yeah, I think so. Yeah my one of my old dogs Yeah, uh, but then the show itself The actual mad ball set which is all out there pro shot. I think only set it off as in the documentary Um However, the clip of you playing New York City Is like very popular Okay in our world. Oh, okay And there's just like little parts in it. There's there's a part where stigma is just like flexing during the song Which is incredible. She did a lot during which is awesome during the little bridge part before the breakdown You like fix matt's mic so he can sing that part. Yeah, and he's like smiling It's just like this awesome moment and then the pit For what can I do? It goes So fucking crazy and it's exactly what like young me Hoped it looked like you know what I mean? Also in that set Roger comes out Yeah, and and play is crucified. Yes, and in that moment there are like like every New York hardcore head is in there Caesar district nine. Oh, yeah, toby was there. Mike was dancing jimmy g's there and Rick the life rick is Yeah, he's in the mix. Yeah rick is like such a central part of the new york hardcore Story and in this documentary. Yeah. Yeah. That is not the case now Um, like you sing on the loaves of the grave. Self inflicted, but that's what and that's you know, I would love to know Just kind of when did rick's place in New york hardcore start to fall apart I think it happened earlier than people realize And I'm not gonna I don't want to give him too much air time because I have a motto that's like I don't want to give credibility to those who don't Really deserve it or have lost it. Sure, you know in a dishonorable way. Yeah But I will for the sake of like this conversation, of course history elaborate a little bit for the sake of history Yeah, I think that I don't not it wasn't at that time I mean that was like 25 was coming out and everyone was happy and had their bands and things were fine but maybe later 90s Things started to surface and I think that was the start of it Beyond that went like when he went full blown cuckoo. Mm-hmm. That's his own like. I don't know like when that happened, but You know, there were always signs of like instability in character And there were a lot of passes given because of friendships sure lots That I won't even say on this thing, you know, because I could really dismantle people, but I don't do that I don't get down like that, but um Lots of passes were given and it's it's unfortunate that people use friendships to sort of get away with shit you know And uh, it's not the way I operate But so there was a lot of that there were some years of that Where it was like you're getting away with a lot because of the company you keep and the scene that you're from And then ultimately that wore out its welcome that whole thing dissolved and then started to become like hey man, you're gonna have to just Be accountable for for your actions on your own at this point, you know, um But yeah, that happened probably earlier than The internet Dictates you know what I'm saying, you know what I'm saying, but then now you see the unraveling of people and all that But there was always signs of like weird character things and like pathological behavior Always his distro is it? Yeah, yeah, and then when all the things he would say later on like online that I would get second hand or third hand I'd be like dude Just outright lies like outright made up stories or like taking a story that he may have heard second hand and like Making it his own and then like Throwing my name in it or something like it's like, huh? You know And then the posturing it's like come on man. You're not how what was your when you first heard he called you sad ball How what's your it's kind of funny? It's kind of funny sad ball. Yeah, I don't take myself that seriously. I can laugh at something like that It's fun and it might have even been something he said to me Like when things were okay. Yeah, right, right and like I was like upset about something and like jokingly might as even it might have even been so Too shamed it's one of the funny ones. Yeah, yeah, that one's good 100 scumbags is good for 100 demons and then yeah, he just went crazy wisdom in a cock ring For wisdom in shame weird Adam is fucking mine. You know, yeah, you got to laugh at it because Otherwise like, you know, it can't be taken seriously And you know to the younger folks out there that don't know I mean, you know, it is kind of messed up when like you don't know It's out of context for some people or they don't know anyone one person from the other or any backgrounds. So If they happen to like that band, you know, I know you're a 25 life guy And I mean they they had some cool stuff, you know, I mean Was not my favorite band to come out of new york But I mean they they had some cool stuff that they put out I'll give them some credit and they had a lot of song. It's a lot. Yeah later on That's a whole other story Isaac pushed me to do that one. I was like, I kind of don't want to do it. All right. Well, let's go But we did it whatever it doesn't matter. Um, but we knew like the original squad were like all our friends You know, so we were rooting them on um and they definitely like started to like Gain a fan base and like make noise, you know, um So, yeah, I'm not I'm not going to take that away from them. Um, yeah, but he's going to like regard. They were yeah They were important to the scene and that in that in that respect, you know But unfortunately I can walk anywhere in the world I can go into any show anywhere in the world my head up and if you can't do that It's gonna it speaks volumes of your character 100% You know what I mean? Like I don't care where I am in the world You know, and especially in new york like if you can't go into a show in your own scene that you came from Says says something does you know, but yeah, but yeah, how do you feel about the rest of the kind of selection of uh Casts the various characters in the documentary. Do you feel it was an accurate assessment of new york? It was who they it was them being them I mean like he was like kind of funny and like nervous He always had this nervous laugh that he does still to this day probably and like He was being himself. Puerto Rican Mike was funny Being Puerto Rican Seeser from district nine. Maybe the star of that combo were hilarious, you know Who else is in there? or might be And then isn't there one of the 108 yeah 108. Yeah, hold me from 108. Yeah. I mean you saw all the different Personality it's fascinating. Yeah, it is fascinating Anything that's authentic is Okay, my book. Yeah, agreed, you know in the mad ball set And one of the this incredible clip of stigma grabbing the mic Saying that's freddy mad ball That's the new king right there Sticky do you feel Is if a new king has risen since I mean, I don't you know, I don't know about that but um I I appreciate that he views me in that way and I mean To get the cosine from him my brother jimmy those because those guys have all said something similar like that in one And at some point or another and I just I'm like man, I'm listen man. I'm just I'm just trying to honor like The opportunity that I was given. Yeah, I'm just trying to honor that and I will forever do that I will forever do that. I will forever be a uh Defender of the core and the culture, you know and like protector and like Uh, you know I don't know. I don't know if I'm a king or whatever you have you want it. I mean, I'm flattered Yeah, I'm flattered by the title by the especially being endorsed by someone like Vinnie Who you've known your whole life. Who would know my whole life, you know, but yeah, I mean it's flattering. It's awesome Yeah, there's got to be some pride for him of like this kid that we chose When he was a child To to build this thing around well, that's how it is sticking with it I mean, that's exactly how you've used it. I guess right because he saw me from being a scared little seven-year-old Uh, like, you know Going up there super timid To like the documentary where I had started to find A little bit more of a stride A little bit more of a comfort zone Still wasn't fully there. I don't think I still was great about communicate Great at communicating with people as much I was more like all about business Like play the song Then I'm in you know, like just You know, but like, you know, you you find that as you as you grow in this thing you you get more comfortable in all those areas, but the fact that yeah, he he said that was awesome and uh It's got to be something for him to see a little kid Growing to a man and like still, you know, take that and do something. So yeah, I mean he got mad ball tattooed on his head Like yeah, three years ago, you know Yeah, was it like it was in 95? No, it was like that's love. That's love. Yeah, that's love. That's love and he got to see my daughter sing Which I thought was a special moment. Oh, wow Um, like a full circle moment for me since we're on that topic We played punk rock bowling And we finally got to play like the actual punk rock bowling like the main stage and it was cool It was like in the middle of the street like a bunch of people there watching so it was a good show And I brought my daughter out My family was with me there and I brought her out to sing. It's my life. How old is she? She was nine at the time. That's your song or eight or nine Wow That's your song that they gave you but then he was there So that's what made it extra special because af we're gonna play either that they played a day before or we're gonna play the next day or something af we're in town and Vinnie and gallow were at the show and uh Yeah, there's like videos of it but like pictures of it But you can see stigma in the back with a big smile on his face and like imagine seeing From his perspective his viewpoint I was seven. Yeah, you know the kid's kid the kid's kid Wow, so yeah, that's pretty that's pretty cool. That's awesome. It's pretty cool. How'd she do? She did great All right. Yeah, if you look up the videos man, she did great. She bounced around up there Yeah, she did she did good and she she definitely likes music I'll tell you another funny little can I interject? Can I insert one thing about my daughter about this? So she's got a very eclectic taste in music like myself and I have I have a daughter and a son my son's 14 and he's They're both, you know, they're fantastic and their mother of course. I'm I'm big on family. I'm all about that's I'm all about my family but My daughter Has similar music taste to me Being like she looks 90s hip-hop and like oh this is like very similar like You know, she'll know like like a fleetwood max song or something like she'll know like it's like random Like she's got like a really like she retains lyrics like And that loves vixen pain How did you know I felt it so So I think she might have heard it We were like showed them a little clips of the documentary my my brother's documentary and like It's the intro and immediately immediately like resonated with her the song. Whoa. And so she plays soccer So before we go into a soccer game She always requests victim and pain get pumped up to hear that to go to play the soccer game And I don't need I don't think I've told my brother this I don't think I've told Vinny this so they might even hear on here first time or whatever but She requests victim and pain and I'm like How does this happen like I didn't push it on her I didn't say you have to listen to this record from start to finish nothing like that at all This was like her mind She heard the song and then did something for her and then like specifically request that song when she's about to go play a game To get to get her like You know in x-men when you know mutants have this moment in their lives where they discover their superpowers Basically that Hearing victim and pain in that documentary was like her blood Yeah, fully formed and there she was she could pick any song at this point. Unbelievable. She's a 10 year old Now she's 10 year old little girl means of all songs That's crazy awesome without your like Distinct guidance. No. Yeah. It was in her blood. Yeah, it's wild. It's unlocked When does stigma leave mad ball to become uh, and I quote you a famous tattooist The famous tattooist. Yeah, um, he's still working on that by the way But uh, 90 97 67 67 so right around demonstrate my style. Yeah I I want to say he was with us on a couple of demonstrate my style tours in europe. Okay. Okay, so Let's just say 97. Okay. Yeah Um, yeah, yeah, it was sad to see him like depart from like The tour but man, he stuck around, you know, he really fucking did it. Yeah, he stuck around man. He he it's like he saw us off Yeah, right, you know, he was like he came with us. He like we got going we got going and then he was like, okay guys You got it from here. Yeah, and then soon after that afk back Yeah, so there was there was a minute where he wasn't playing music. Oh, yeah He was with us. I mean he was playing with mad ball, but like he wasn't playing af. Yeah. Oh well af would so demonstrate my style And af coming back kind of happened simultaneously. We'll get we'll get there in a second. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we did demonstrate my style You did it again second lp Back on road runner back with jayme lock Tell me uh thoughts and feelings from this time. What comes to mind with this record? definitely Feeling like we've Grasp like we had kind of have our own sound going by this point. I mean, I think that started with dropping many suckers very early like Stages but Then grew more would set it off and then by demonstrating my style or like this like that like kind of Hence the name but like that has many metaphors, but like Um, um, yeah, we kind of like we this this our style is this you know, this is our version of hardcore sure It's taking from the old school You know taking from all these, you know, like Like when my cadence, you know, like the whole the whole thing, you know, like every maddie's writing style. Hoi is writing style all that in a pot It makes mad ball and like I think that that it was more Defined and refined By demonstrating my style I would say and there's probably more new songs Yeah, I mean, yeah, because set it off is like half. Yeah old mad ball Is this you lyrically across the board here? Yeah, for sure. So that's really the first real time we're start to finish set it off. I would say um Minus minus like one one song or song and a half but like Yeah, so yeah set it off. I started my own lyrics, but demonstrate myself like the whole thing. Yeah, I would say yeah I think I'm pretty sure that's my lyrics. Yeah. Come on. So cool Awesome, you guys really understand it was different. You understand the importance of the title track I'm like, okay, this one's gonna represent the album. Yeah, let's go. Let's go crazy on this one. Yeah um I think any other you're 21 around this time something like that 2021 96 96 i'm 21. Yeah. Yeah. I think any other 21 year old saying hardcore is my life. I'll carry the name Woodfield this and genius, but here it is objectively true. Yeah, exactly That's like those are like could be cringe worthy lyrics, but it's completely honest. Yeah completely honest So how how is and it rhymed with whatever I needed to rhyme with right? That's half battle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How is hardcore changed by 96? And and how is like the inner operations of mad ball changed by this time? Not drastically from 95. I will say yes drastically in europe Drastically in europe they caught on they caught on in europe So much so that for demonstrating my style we actually went out to do promo in europe without playing a solitary show It's the dream like radio and press and stuff. Wow. I had never done that. Yeah, we're like what you want to fly us out to europe To talk to interviews. Yeah, like really? So we did that for that record. I guess set it off broke some ground Dynamo these things start happening So they take so roadrunner takes us a little bit more seriously. Mm-hmm as a band And so they put a little bit of oomph into us for demonstration of style. Yeah, okay, and I'm I'm grateful for it. I mean we we we we it helped us Cement something there that we still have today there You know we did like crazy promo played crazy festivals Like the weirdest bands the most eclectic styles of band It was like Los Lobos Mad ball and corn Like there's one show and then like some other thing with like a rap band like a it was like spoke riders they would like this dutch rap band and like Us and then like lords of brookly in there like it's like the most holland had like the illest Lineups of bands like they're like and is that working? It was so working It was like they were ahead of their time like whoever was putting together those dutch festivals Holland, I mean dynamo was a dutch They had they were on to something they were mixing crossing genres and mixing stuff But somehow they were making it work It's still the best place over there in my opinion. Yeah, um one of for sure. Yeah pride Times are changing music video. Yeah from this record big chair Huge And New York hardcore's big chair budget. Vinny said it so I had to have a throne I see it's like a classic NYHC song Start to finish it's still your live closer, you know, it yeah, yeah, it you know it we alternate it now But yeah pride is still one of the big ones. It's got that that whole intro Big sing-along kind of song Yeah, I mean was this chosen with europe in mind or was it just a random thing because they love to sing along over there So funny thing about pride is it was a song that didn't come together until the very end and Maddie was instrumental in that I think this is heavily maddie's song My lyrics it was like a hodgepodge of stuff and somehow This is gonna we were like this is gonna be a cool song But it wasn't put together in the right order And then we somehow Fennagle that maddie did mainly I got to give him his props on that And then we listened back. We're like, okay now. It's what it's supposed to be and Yeah, I don't know why we we chose that I think again because it had like a catchier chorus It's an anthem. Yeah, it feels like an anhyzer. Yes, correct. It had an anthemic vibe to it and uh I love I love the fact that like it kept like I don't know. New York hardcore has always been a little bit influenced by like oy. Yeah, definitely Um, whether people want to admit it or not um Even like going back to like our stuff with like when we did the blame That's like whoever's song that is originally but like You know, we we kind of like became our song and like We loved doing that song like so it was like we always had That element in our music mad ball did, you know, I mean if you AF has it different way we kind of it manifests itself in different ways with our bands, but like, yeah There's always that element and I feel like pride If you if you close the hi-hat saying a little more melodically, that's a cox bar song, you know, okay straight up like it's all the DNA That's a compliment, you know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, it's like We weren't like thinking like that like we want this to sound like a business or a cox bar or whatever a company rejects but like, uh I think it's there. I think it's just there, you know, and and and and we We always enjoyed doing those those kind of songs for sure. Do you know the amount of band names? and record labels you've given uh via lyrics Like you've you've given There's probably a band name For every man. I know there's a band name set it off. Yeah, there's a buddy maddie manages them And I don't know if it's directly related to mad ball, but come on. You gotta it ain't the movie. You gotta wonder. Yes Yeah, I this movie is killing me. I'm googling set it off Latif I'm getting this fucking movie Latifah Jada. I know I'm sick of it. Yeah. Yeah. I won't watch them forget the movie Forget for real man. Um streets of hate records. No, it's case. There's a there's a record label. Oh, yeah, that's a great one It's good. Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay. There's a many mad ball songs are something else now. So you're doing a great service Oh, man. Do all respect respect all of you who are inspired by that. So would you say 96 is when Mad ball in europe Really becomes kind of what it is today or was it, you know, definitely a big a big, uh There was a big push and we like Serious planted a very serious flag there like And did some good tours and some fest more festivals because we weren't familiar with the whole festivals scene and we started to do more Festivals and all that is is longevity. You know, I mean that's guarantee your band Being able to go. Yep. Just go and go. So it's it's so important and difficult. Yes. It's instrumental, man I can't I can't I mean we're now finally starting starting to get on festivals in the states I've been trying to do it for years because I just Saw how well it worked in europe and it's not even speaking from like a business mind, but It definitely works from a business standpoint, but Just from like you said a longevity standpoint Having the opportunity to play those festivals Just extend your life and like because otherwise you're just playing to the same crowds over and over but now your crowd broadens And there's going to be the people that don't care for hardcore But then there's always going to be a few that are like, hey, I dig that stuff like whatever that is I want to check it out more and It opens up a door for other people and like america's really kind of Like that proof of concept in europe the hellfists and all that That's like kind of just now just now like louder than life Is every band and it's really you just got to do that and assemble everyone and everything grows Absolutely, I've been talking about my tim boar is my booking agent here in america and has been for like 20 plus years and I was always like Are there more are there more festivals that we can get on out here because I feel like that would kind of Spark something for us here because I just always It just always works so well in europe and mind you in europe we're doing one day we'll be doing some massive festival and It'll go well and we'll have like a cool reaction and like it'll be it'll be cool And the next day we're playing a little club. So it's not like it's You know like it hasn't like Shot us into this like, you know category of like whatever But it helps it helps keeps the keep the clubs more full And it helps and it helps us expose our culture to like Different people. Absolutely year after year after year. It doesn't it was not only in dynamo. It was like still Today like we play a festival and it's like there's somebody's watching For the first time or a hardcore band for the first time and throughout all the ebbs and flows of hardcore growing and leveling out How do you feel about where it is now? I feel it's great I feel it's great and I feel You know, I was asked that recently and I think it's in a really good place you know it's tougher for What's the word they use for us legacy bands or whatever? Um, I don't know man. I'm just a band like we just do what we do, you know what I mean? But like yes, I get it It's tougher for legacy bands in the states. Yeah. Yeah, not in your But It's fine at the same time like So what like deal with it. Yeah, just get in their face. Yeah, you know, I got offered Can I even say it? I got offered a tour recently that I'm gonna do that. I'm not gonna say because I don't know if I can say it I don't know when this will drop but You know, it's a band that's new and young and hot right now and rightfully so And they asked us to do a tour or a section a segment of a tour and uh I had no ego about it. I'm like, yeah, you know main support That's also have the pressure of closing the terror method. That's just like yeah, we'll fucking play and kudos to terror man They were like they were with that they were with that too like they were We're the same like in that regard like we don't have any egos like that Like we'll we'll like we had whoop enough for you. Yeah problem and maybe it gets flipped on another You know like I brought a bunch of bands out out to europe to do a rebellion thing, you know, and like that's right Hey, we we didn't you know you're a rebellion We The day we you know, there was the day we were flying out same the travel ban happened for covid. Yes Wow, I had to make an executive decision. Yeah, you made the call. That's right about the tour Vitallo showed us the text if the tour is gonna happen or not. Yeah, he made the call Which is crazy a lot of pressure a lot of pressure But it was us mad ball it was it was mad ball knock loose. Yeah, check out this lineup us knock loose harm's way and dagger threat Aha, yes, I know that for it And yeah, which would have been a killer. Yeah, I literally a belly and tour at the end of that night. I like Emailed this place and was like hey, I need a job Wow, and that was how I started the it but anyway, that's so I forgot all about all of that Well, yeah, the whole world went upside down at that point But that was a tough one because I had worked hard to get together that lineup That was gonna be a great lineup that lineup was gonna and knock loose hadn't quite yet. Yeah Now it's yeah, oh never now. I'd be like, yo, when you're gonna bring me on tour Yes, let's go straight up, but like, uh It would have been cool. It would have been really cool and sadly it didn't happen But you know, we'll get it by the time we got out of all that. Yeah. Yeah, it's like I'm not gonna ask them I'm gonna try to do that tour again. Like that's that's a wrap Back to 1996. Here we go. Yeah in the middle of a mad ball set. Yeah after you spend time talking about what I do now What I do? No, this is good. This is good. You're gonna love it after talking about Remembering the roots of the genre which we're all about like that's what this is all about at the end of the day We love the no stuff. Yeah Ignostic front reunites in the middle of your set. Is that at wetlands? Yes How was that in the works far in advance or was that a spur of the moment thing? That was spontaneous. Really? Yeah Holy shit completely spontaneous I looked around and I saw my brother Rob Kabula Maybe ray bees jumped on the drums or was will there no will because what was playing with us because ray drummed for af at some point didn't he like early a It ray drum for af very early on and I got a little I'm gonna insert a little lore for you Please ray played a mad ball set once No shit. Yes. Wow At the continental in new york We had a show something happened. I don't know why it came to be this way, but Ray bees played drums It was me It was hoia vinny ray Myself so hoia is already in so this is like 93 or wow. That's a lineup. It was Rest in peace ray, but it was horrific It was horrific but That's not where I but classic. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, nonetheless classic. Wow. Like I wouldn't have it any other way like I love that that happened. I love that happened and we basically did all the you know ball destruction Yeah, of course. What is ray only knows like united bloods. Yeah. Yeah So that was like a one of those random weird impromptu mad ball sets that like yeah, that's crazy But back to your thing. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like ray played us. I don't know. I feel like he was part of it But oh no, I'm talking about ray. Maybe jimmy jimmy caletti might have been there. That's what it was something like that But like part of the old lineup was there And I invited them up to play chris fight Right and victim in pain. Yeah That well, they just kept going with it. I was like, well, he might as well just play a show at this point But like, uh, so yeah, I was like, hey AFs here, so they're gonna do and then yeah, it was like very impromptu Was not like we didn't talk about it like leading up to it really like it was like, yeah, it's awesome. That's crazy You know put a bug You know, my brother's, you know, like they start, you know, maybe there is Still something here, but in mind you the scene is now vibrant again or getting there like growing again And there's all these younger people now Younger like my generation You know, and they booked a two night Reunion in the same venue like the same year. Exactly. So clearly that put the yeah, exactly the bug in it. So I it's reciprocated You know, I uh returned the favor they put me on I put them on I feel like it's one of the only genres in the world where that can happen 100% Yeah, and now look at them. They're still we're all I mean, we're all still doing what we do, you know, but like yeah Pardon this interruption We hate to keep you even more than a second from this unbelievable part two with freddy mad ball But we got to tell you about three very important things really quickly All of which this episode would not have been possible without the first is guilty party the greatest menswear store in all of north america. I am wearing a pair of samurai baker pants right now the green They are So comfortable so lovely. I got it from guilty party. That's right You can get them too if you use code hard lore you're gonna get 10% off and free shipping on all orders over 300 dollars Bo was just telling you about the sam samurai baker pants. Uh, they also come in black by the way And you just a few more recommendations for you the full count 1101 to me. 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We did um um dean dean bartolonas, which was Um Maddie's close friend our friend he was a friend to all of us But maddie was especially close with him and they had worked they did a lot of studio stuff together and he was Branching out trying to like establish himself doing his own studio and do whatever So we gave kind of threw him that record And again, it was in mass Like I said, we never record new york. Maybe it's like a bad thing if we record in new york. Maybe it's like a bad omen Um, so we went to mass Boston area well wouldn't Ball destruction was Oh my god. Yeah, what am I talking about lp? Yeah, I got you. I got you. I got you. That makes sense. Uh Besides the don Besides besides the major lp. Okay lp and i'm glad you clarified that because there people are like what where was done furious in boston No, you're right. So the first two eps were new york sure lps. We'll say the the long yeah The albums the full albums none of the full length albums Have ever none of them have been recorded in new york jersey. Yes So what was I saying so yeah, uh We gave dina shot on this one and um on the strength of maddie And it I mean it was cool We were down for that because we needed to change it up a little bit We needed to like, you know three record or a couple records with with jayme. We need to like Get a different flavor going and so Maddie was heavily involved in that one production what like producing wise and like uh Yeah, I mean it was A darker record for us vibe wise and I got more involved There were some songs that I guess you could say some of the riffs were mud Are you standing there going Or are you playing guitar? No, I wasn't playing guitar, you know I could hack a guitar now, but like for some reason I I was around all these like great musicians and I never like Picked up an instrument and tried to like learn it just for writing purposes or whatever, you know, like I it's a shame on me for that um, I have In the last little bit I've started to you know do that a little bit, but um It was no it was like me I stayed with maddie. It was like it was like We we all stayed with maddie because he was living there at the time going to school in boston um, so we all stayed with him and then we would go to deans and record and uh, I can't remember how much of the album we had written beforehand. Oh interesting But I feel like it was like half and half maybe like we had some stuff written, but then and then we'd be writing at maddie's But yeah, there were some songs where I can remember like humming a riff to maddie and then he'd play it And then there was so there was like that was probably the first record Where I could say that I like Came up with a riff, you know, you know roundabout way. Yeah, of course. Um, but yeah, same usual process These guys with the riffs And then and then the difference was johnny lefato was on drums at this point. So he brought his own kind of caveman Caveman style to the mix. Yeah, the more like halftime mosh parts. Yeah cut off. Yeah, what a track Yeah, musically it was musically it was uh hard musically was different. Yeah musically was a little it was a little different and uh Are you going shaka? Yeah, yeah, yeah Which is like that's very of the time but you do it in a very mad ball. Where right, right? Right, very good. Yeah, it was uh No, man, we we we we were we we went to it. I mean we didn't I don't think it got the the push that like other records got And is that is that road runners fall? Is that on you guys? Road runners starting to go like more mainstream by this point. I think they got nickel back by 97 or maybe 98 yeah, it was 98 when it's not even there yet. I think that's like about to happen So 99 right so maybe they got plans that they're yeah, it's it's weird It's like it didn't get the push to demonstrate my style guy It was only like a couple of years later or whatever um But yeah, um, I mean we toured for it. We did our our part You know, we did we did some really cool tours off that album in the states We did like a kind of infamous tour with uh Earth crisis was like us earth crisis hate breed Scar head and then the second half instead of hate breed. It was blood for blood I'll do it. Um, how was that tour? Very cool. I mean, I don't know what record earth crisis would have been on But I think it was one that was like pretty pretty good for that. I would have been in Gamora probably I think Gamora season ends by then maybe So we were doing like a co-headline thing Wow flip-flopping. Yeah Um, yeah, they were popping at the time and then we were on look my way I mean it was doing good enough or like we were still going doing our stuff and uh Yeah, hate breed was like opening up for us all of us Um, which is funny to think about now. Um I remember watching them a bunch of that tour actually and thinking spin's got something Yeah, sure enough and that would have been like Right when satisfaction that was that record. They were they were playing that record that satisfaction record And I thought damn this band's hard And I kind of knew Jamie because he had I think booked a couple shows for us in Connecticut So like I mean we weren't like tight, but like I knew him and like but I was like damn. Jamie's band's pretty damn good He had that blood from blood in the second half Um, legendary, but that tour was like super long and like crazy Crazy rowdy rowdy. Yeah, I can see rowdy and like just it's a miracle that the tour like That we made it out alive But yeah, that was like one of the highlights of 98 of that look my way our uh time and in europe We had some good some good stuff happen, but Didn't get the shine That didn't restrain my stuff and you were I mean this was your last record with roadrunner Was that writing on the wall or was that something you said you signed for a million records? You did three sort of for us it was and I'll I'll give credit to montee conners and like The people that started to like climb up the ladder at roadrunner at the time They were guys that we knew and I basically asked him We asked him If we could leave And try other stuff. Yeah um Because I think we we might have been locked in for one more album or something like that and um Or an option or I don't know but We talked to montee and They had respect for us. So they were like yeah, and he knew like Maybe like you said maybe like nickel, but I don't know something was coming in the You know, like okay, we can save that hardcore something. That's like more, you know, pop even death metal mainstream or whatever, you know And and so montee's at nuclear blast now. Yeah, it is. Did he are you on currently? We're on nuclear blast. Yeah. Yeah full circle Yep, go figure, right? But yeah, no, he is. Yeah, he's he's he's he's there, but uh Yeah, montee was like he was like, yo man, I get it I'm like, he's just I we feel like we're just not you know, yeah Getting a priority anymore that priority anymore. And I mean I get it. I guess at that time hardcore had like a ceiling I guess I mean You know, so like So yeah, so that was that's when we went over to epitaph on look my way The logo changed for the first time to the 3d one You know technologies booming I love this attention to detail that you guys Oh, it's like even when you were just mentioning people's faces and the coney island show like I love that that's like that's like good You guys are good at what you do. Thanks, man. So are you it's it's the details, man It's the details that like why'd you change this so it's those face during this song? Why do they feel that way? Yeah, well, right, right? What what made you want to change the iconic logo? You know, I couldn't tell you man of just time fully fully fully honest with you Like I don't know. I think it was just part of the whole vibe of like changing studios Altering the sound a little bit The writing I think the whole theme just changed a little bit and I think we were just trying to like You know, we knew who we were but also like Fresh and things. Yeah, of course, you know what you have to do as a band, you know, you know, so yeah, it was that That's fair. Yeah. So the live version of hold it down that you do today with the band intro When did you realize you could just ring out forever? Over and over Forever while you intro the band. Yeah, like do you recall doing that the first time being like Keep ringing out. Yeah, I'm gonna just I don't recall the first time but Yeah, you mean look my way. Yeah, you said hold it down. Oh, did I and I was so but I know what he meant The title track of look my way. Yeah, when did you rise you could bring out forever? Yeah I was reading the worst hold that yeah that that happened like live A lot of things have happened the get out the get out thing live. Yeah, it goes get out Get out and then you do this the long stop in the middle Yeah, well, that's yeah, and then we do the smell the bacon thing that that came to life live. Yeah. Yeah Uh numerous other numerous other shenanigans. There are live isms. We played right before you and at copenhull Yeah last year the last time I think we saw each other and or two years ago and uh We we were only able to stay For a couple songs. Okay, and then we literally had to go to wherever to make sure I was but watching watching you Interact do those kinds of things with the crowd Is is it's funny to hear you say that you were once kind of awkward all about business Let's just play and go very to how you are now You know has this started to catch on by this time if I look my way A little more. Yeah a little more. I mean like with every year It's like repetition, you know like with every year that you're a band or like with every show You're a little more confident a little more open, you know, I feel like I was super awkward and super shy like you know I just wanted to go out there and play like I was like, I don't know. I'm not gonna like Give some kind of deep speech about whatever like I'm like, I'm just you know, but like as you keep growing in this thing you realize that yes you They're there to hear the songs and all that but they also want to hear from you and like they do want to You know, yeah chat a little who is this guy, you know what I mean? They want to chat a little bit so like but that all happened like just what years of doing it and like Especially in the festivals are hard because you got a festival or weird because you have that separation, you know at a club It's it's easier to get more comfortable When you're right there in the mix and a room full of people you're like, hey, what's up, buddy? What are you doing? You know like you can play off of the crowd a little bit better, yeah in uh in uh in in uh in that environment a little but uh, uh the Festival setting is like very daunting very like You're all the way over there and I got to figure out a way not only for my music And the energy to reach you but also like whatever i'm gonna say like has to like get a reaction It's like man. This is crazy. Do you put now we've gotten like more comfortable? You got it locked in do you prefer to play with or without a barricade? Oh without Yeah, yeah, that's just not even a question. I hate barricades Yeah, as do we all as the I hate barricades the most dangerous thing out of show. It's stupid I mean they got the platforms that they do nowadays, which is like I guess a happy medium of like, you know Like there'll be festivals that like put out the platform, which is it's better than a barricade. Absolutely Um, actually don't mind it The mini stage. Yeah, I like the mini stage. Yeah, I like those things You know, I like go that route like skip the barricade like barricades are weird. That's for like, yeah, I don't know rock I don't know. That's dangerous. Yeah, but I try to go out there and Still engage get up on it. Yeah Engage the way man. What can you do? You know, so now epitaph comes along and it's time for the next step And yet another one of the greatest hardcore records ever made. Oh, I have said on this show I've said multiple times That can't stop won't stop. I think is a perfect modern hardcore song start to finish lyrics the actual the actual riffs big chorus I can't believe it. It's fast. It's fast, but then it has the Yeah, yeah It's awesome. It's as good as it gets. Thank you, man. And then it goes straight into the title track, which hits so Hard straight into fall this time, which like Let's say aliens crash landowners Okay, go and they say What is hardcore? You could go can't stop won't stop hold it down fall this time and say aliens Here's this take it away. Go wild enjoy. They'll come back and they'll understand. Ah, you guys are awesome. Thank you Hey, you know very very come you make it easy How does it obviously not solely responsible for that all my my guys of course But the royal you make it easy. Yeah, how does epitaph enter the picture here? I forgot how we linked up with bret, but I think there was some interest from out west from bret and his camp And we were on the fence about it because like we're like an east coast band new york blah blah blah interesting And we were like is that the right Place for us. Is that the right home? You know, so you looked at epitaph as just this like california. Yeah, totally interesting totally Um, I don't think epitaph back then was the epitaph that it is now Even you know because like I mean not like you know like so it was like I don't know seemed like heavily west coast and like Not even like ours like our genre per se like, you know, yeah More punk. Yeah, punk but not like hardcore or like heavier or whatever So we were a little apprehensive, but then it was like again One of those things were like there's not a million people knocking on our door You know, but they don't know that you don't know that and there's a couple. I'm sure there were a couple like smaller Up-and-coming labels that might have been like yeah, you know, but I forget the exact connection with brett, but we end up working something out with them and we drop Hold it down Which I'm glad you guys appreciate that record record. I think our whole generation does yeah that that that is often I I find like when I was getting into this kind of music at all it was It was set it off Hold it down and then we'll get to the new york hardcore e.p. Yeah, because it had just come out around that time right right but yeah, I feel like it's like a like a I don't know not a return to form necessarily, but just like a yeah a blueprint for the next generation. Yes I always felt like uh any of our stuff from like 2000 down um if I Were to have to pick a record a personal One that I want that I like and also one to show people An example of our band. It would probably be hold it down. It's awesome over Set it off and all those uh, you know not that you know everyone likes what they like Yeah came came into this thing at a different time. So that's also something you know It's just it's a definitive mad ball record. It sounds like mad ball in the best It's where I felt the most comfortable It's probably the first time I liked my vocals. Wow. Wow. I mean, I think this is like you sound like you. Yeah. Yeah, this is Yeah, 2000 and on this is we're we're getting this performance Yeah, I just wasn't worried anymore and like we were kind of living kind of wildish So like I would just go in there like belt it out and then it was just kind of like happened like I don't know it was for me Uh production wise and just like how they captured my vocals just not to make it about me but like You know what I'm saying? Yeah, like in comparison to like set it off and like Demonshire and Salma vocals felt a little too thin You know, like I could like nitpick about a lot of things with with us, but like Song wise and performance wise and everything I felt like that was uh Definitely, uh one of our better Output agreed and this was was this matt hennerson produced. Yeah, and wrote Oh, and he wrote he was he was a part of the writing process. Did he track guitars on this? Yeah, okay? Okay, but this is the last one. This is the last one. He's not in the band right, but he I got you He's not in the band, but he's involved Did he write can't suffer one step? I believe so Guys good. He's been saying he's sick in this. Uh, who who yeah, who was part of the writing process for the same same same Same usual suspects. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man us us as far as like, yeah Yeah, it was like mattie hoy and myself um The other guys were It was darin played drums, which he did a really good job. He played a maximum penalty and a couple other bands, but um He did a good job. He's a hell of a drummer um And beto, I don't know if he played on the record though I feel like he was part of the lineup that came like right Like right after we dropped it, but I don't know that he played on the record. Um But yeah same like the writers were like Mattie hoy and myself with the record for the first time ever Was executive produced by roger by roger. Yeah, tell me about that Roger was managing us at the time so Him and billy melano Hey, yeah, all right He's you know, old friend of my brothers and like old old hardcore head and new york hardcore head and so we all old friend of ours And he was I feel like I want to say they had an office at like big blue meaty where the where the record was recorded and uh So yeah, that was kind of the connection where like they had an office there. They put us on the big blue meaty Which I thought was a good option a good choice Um, it was close like we could go over to you know, we were all living in the city But we can come to jersey and record and go home. It was cool And I just saw everything about it. I liked the whole experience. It was cool. It was comfortable And uh They were there so like yeah, we gave them an executive producer credit because like that's all it was made it happen But not really so he wasn't uh part of like the writing process or anything. No I understand. I understand. It was more The executive side gotcha Heavy emphasis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So any fond memories of touring throughout the song did you get to tour throughout the song? Yes, we did um We did some stuff in the states Went to europe A couple of times in 2000 maybe uh Like I said, I was having some legal stuff around there So then I was out of the picture for a little bit and then Yeah, I was out of the picture for a little bit And then when I came back into the mix we had some issues with the guys I think the guys to be to be fair man, you know, like It was a lot like for like beto and darin like We were kind of pissed at them for for a while But if you look at it from their perspective They were walking into You know, there was a lot going on like I mean sure there was this cool album that we did But maybe the best one, you know internally as well, but There was like a lot of like personal stuff, especially with me and like, you know Like I was like a powder keg, you know, like I was like it was like, you know, so it was maybe scary to them It was maybe intimidating for them to commit to like this band And I think it was also like they had jobs And other stuff in their lives and they weren't so sure that they wanted to like tour And the reason I bring this up is they were kind of instrumental in us like Going on hiatus because It was kind of like, okay, these guys don't kind of don't want to tour And then we were just kind of like well, we needed break like maybe we should just shouldn't even drag this through the mud Maybe we should just be done Wow and It was not like a wise It wasn't thought through that well, but like it was, you know a meathead decision, but a decision we made and uh So then yeah, it there was some touring for hold it down, but then like it kind of got shut off Did you play a last show or anything like that? We played a last tour in europe Like and it felt like that Yeah, and and uh Actually mitz played that tour with us. Okay, so in I see in came mitz at the end. Yeah when it was the end supposed to be the end He we knew him from scar head whatever so mitz jumped in to do that tour and uh But that wasn't the end. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you've been you've madel has now existed Within three different decades And you're 25 years old, you know like 80s 90s 2000s. You've existed throughout all of that And now do you at this point? Do you now understand what roger was feeling in like 93 to 96. Aha. Okay. Absolutely. How interesting Yeah, good way to frame that. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and and and uh Yeah, the scene's weird You know like things are weird with us You know and and and a lot of it is a lot of it is it is it's you know self-inflicted Early 2000s scene was weird. It was it was weird. It was weird and uh You know europe still had love for us like when we did that final tour was a good tour good turnouts like it was still cool um, but yeah, everything sort of imploded and like a lineup You know those guys took off and it's not like we couldn't find other musicians, but we just were like Yeah, screw this And uh, I mean in hindsight, we should have just probably said we're gonna take a break Instead of being like we're breaking up, you know, it's kind of silly But ultimately we did uh resurface. Yeah, you know, but we had like a year and a half two years of like No mad ball, you know, and in that time I met my Girl who became my wife been together, you know 22 25 years 22 years married So like a lot of good things happened in that time a lot of like very bad things and then very good things happen in that space of time You know, one of them Is september 11th Oh, right and I have this photo here. Oh man. That's that's my wife. Yeah Yeah Sure, we'll show everybody too. Yeah, that's a crazy picture. Yeah showed me that That's brooklyn. That's like honestly a a harrowing beautiful photo like Museum-esque in a way. Thanks man. My sister-in-law Took that that that photo and like to have that thought in that moment of like holy shit The most devastating thing that we've ever seen just happening I should take a photo of them right now is like it's amazing that she had my wife was crying And so I was yeah consoling her and holding her and her sister You can't you you know at that time I love my sister-in-law Lizzie I love her she's you couldn't take a camera like she took photographs of everything You know and still she's like that like we always count on her like family things like Lizzie will get pictures She will make she'll get me now like so like she's and she's a great photographer and uh She just had a camera in her hand like and just like went up there and like we were up on the roof of That's like on new I want to say that might have been on a new in Greenpoint in Brooklyn And it was actually their apartment. It wasn't my place It was my wife and her sister had an apartment and I had spent the night there And woke up to Yeah twin towers and so I was the only dude with these two ladies So I was also felt the sense of responsibility to be like, okay, what do I do? I can't do anything but I'm just gonna be here I'm gonna hold it down, you know No pun intended. Yeah, but you know what I mean? So like And then and now yeah, so my wife was crying and we were watching the Smoke and the whole thing the ashes are coming into Brooklyn and like you can see the ashes Uh You snapped that picture and what was that daylight? Do you recall like connecting with you know stigma or your brother or anything? I want to say I tried to figure out. I tried to reach out to my brother to make sure he was okay Yeah, I mean Obviously you communicate with your friends and then like I was yeah, like you said like Vinny and them who are in the city There were a couple people that that we were close to that were in the city And yes, we checked in on them. They're good. Okay, cool You know, and then you hear about like someone someone so and so his cousin. He lost the cousin. He lost and then it's like, oh man crazy I want to say Hoy's brother Dave Was down there and like Right down in the mix of it. He he ended up You know, okay, but uh He he passed some years ago now, but but unrelated to that but rest in peace Dave, but um He was there There were a couple people that I knew that were there like You know clouds of smoke like hitting them and like Suck all over them and like yeah, I was like it was pretty intense and are they like You said it's unrelated like Now they're finding that more people are dying from Related effects to the aftermath. Yeah, then died in the actual event. I gotta thank my wife because There was at one point I said should I go down there? um And help like yeah, like whatever that could mean whatever that means because they were like they were actively looking for like Volunteers or whatever and I remember and she were like we talk about this, you know, and it's like I was like should I go down there like What can I do? Like I'm not like a structural engineer or anything, but like I'm an able-bodied young guy. Yeah, but pretty strong. I can do something You know and uh She was like don't don't go. She's like there's a lot of people going there It's gonna be a mess who knows danger, you know, of course typical like what your lady would tell you like don't just just wait, you know And like I knew my friends were good and so we just kind of waited it out and uh, thank god for that man I'm glad I glad I didn't go down there. I'm sorry to the people that that did because I had there's a lot of like Bad stuff that that happened to people after the fact. Yep How does new york change? after that And new york hardcore really great question. We've never asked Anyone who was there these these questions. How does new york change? It got friendlier for a moment It was more like Like it was like a humbling experience for everyone right like for the world But especially in new york, so I feel like it gave people that dose of like humility and also humanity like Hey man, like this like this is crazy like we you know, we got attacked or whatever it was so it's like there was like Some camaraderie with the people of new york and like, you know people were More inclined to help each other and stuff like that. At least that's what I got out of it. You know because of this catastrophic event crazy thing that happened But uh, as far as the music scene, I don't man. What was even going on at the time? Oh my god the early 2000s was so weird Were you ever you checked out? I was kind of checked out. I was kind of checked out Um Yeah, I was like Getting into all kinds of other goofiness, you know putting myself in bad environments, but Kind of checked out for music. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, but The silver lining is You're with your now wife. Yeah It sounds like things are turning around because shortly thereafter 2004 we have The first mad ball record. I was into hardcore. Mm that came out like I went and bought it I got us blue. You know what I mean and music has changed so much in those four years. Yeah, like napster I remember that a mass hysteria. What so that that led us to like the streaming model that we're at today For sure in that little gap in that little where you guys were gone. Yeah Yeah, then you yeah exactly that you know napster came in all this other kind of stuff started happening is digital stuff Yeah, yeah, it definitely changed and for us like my mind wasn't on music um But I went to like an h2o show at cb's cb's was still doing stuff and I went to an h2o show and uh My wife had never seen me perform And uh, that ain't right. My mother-in-law was like visiting So she went to cb This was awesome. She could say that to people like I was at cb's and uh And my sister-in-law was there and like all these people came And it was it was just to go ch2o wasn't for me to it wasn't no mad ball obviously was mad ball was No more at that moment but toby called me up to do uh guilty by association and um And it's around that time like right out like I forget like oh Whatever whatever time period it was And I go up and I do guilty by association and then I go back and All the ladies are like what the hell was that? and they're like And I'm like, you know whatever like they hadn't never seen me perform. They had never You know, they didn't and it hasn't been that long hadn't been that long but You know in that short amount of time a lot goes on I'm assuming your mother-in-law didn't come from a punk or hardcore background So she would have no idea god no and we were just she was visiting and I was like, hey, I want to go to my buddy's show I wasn't sure if I was gonna sing or not or whatever But I was like, let's go see a show at cb's that might be cool And they were like, yeah, let's go like mom dukes was like, let's go I want to see cb gb's like wow. She yeah, she's her background is not that at all Great people though. I love these people there. I mean, they're my family. Um, did that give the point of that is When I did that Like my wife was like like you're pretty good at that like uh Like why don't you do that like, you know because Not to say too much, but I was not doing like the most positive stuff. You know, I was doing other things And so I feel she was trying to Anything that's not Uh-huh bad, of course, you know and I did have on and off like this moving job And I did some other like legit stuff, but I was doing not not so good stuff too, but so That was just another positive thing and then shortly after that we decided to do a reunion show and mad ball comes back You know, so that's kind of the same kind of influence. You know, it's yeah Same thing as af right in your side. Right. I don't even know if toby knows this or not Because those combos were more behind the scenes, but it definitely Sparked something and where people were like in my ear like You know, you're only 20 something years old. Yeah hardcore. So weird. You know, it's like you're not We need no need mad ball hardcore. So weird now. Here you go. Um the song for my enemy is the first song on the on the e p The new york hardcore e p Who did mits write that? Uh What have been oh, yeah, uh, great song Might have been a hoia mits collab. Sure. Sure. Sure great song because there's a lot of that like I said man like There's a lot of cola collaborating going on like with mad ball like there was always, you know, yeah, there's certain songs where it's like, yeah, that's more Maddie. Oh, that's more hoia. That's but there's always like a you know, uh, it was always collaborative for the most part Um, I'm gonna ask mits about that Because he did he did he doesn't get enough credit and he has written songs that are important That he maybe doesn't get credit when you had some some uh, maybe both some live staples in legacy, which is like to do that This far into your career have like heaven hell Hardcore pride the song. Yeah It's it's rare that a band can get these songs that they can play forever This late. Um, yeah, but was the gap from hold it down to now Something that pushed you to go Harder on this the epn legacy I mean possibly yeah the fact that we had been like inactive for a while and then like hadn't put out a record for a while Yeah Maybe we felt like we had something to prove because mad ball is back is the byline now, you know Yeah, yeah, for sure and when when this is happening when you're kind of getting back into it. You got the bug again Yeah, are you checking out like just terror come across your radar at that time? Yeah. Yeah, they came across our radar around that time we were we were uh I feel like we were on a tour doing some shows with hate breed or something like that like right around when like legacy came out Shawn martin's on backups on the record And uh, yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, he did come through for that. Yeah, that was cool. I mean that I mean that was like a leveled up Production I feel like you know going to zoos and like all that and then like Yeah, we were trying to step up in every way, you know, like musically lyrically was trying to like, you know We you know, like we've been at this for a little bit now. Like we got to like Show people like we still we still got something to say we still have something to offer. So Um, there was definitely that vibe, but uh terror came across our our path. Um on a show I feel like we were in canada or something. I don't know and like They got thrown on the bill We were like doing some hate breed shows And they got thrown on a bill and I had heard the name somebody had mentioned to me. There's a new band. There's like a new band out Um, they got a little buzz right now and I'm like, and oh you got to check out this band. They're actually playing this show today And I checked them out that day and I was like okay And that had to have been very I was like I was like they they they got something going on here And were you familiar with buried alive or any of their? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Scott's other stuff. Yeah, I I was familiar With the names, you know, but like I wasn't like homies with scott anything like that So it wasn't like that but like I knew the names like I knew the names and things. Hey, you know, he was involved in but I didn't you know terror was like, uh Yeah, it impressed me for sure like I I I watched their set on that show and I was like Okay, they mean business, you know, perhaps hardcore lives Hardcore might just live. Yeah, exactly. No, but I well that and and and that's and you're correct to say that because It always feels good when you see a band that gets it And delivers it because that's not always the case, you know And this probably rings true throughout all genres, but I love when I see those bands that get it. Yeah, yeah, and I could tell that they get it Like I was like, oh, they get it like their style their Output like they get it, you know, you know, because some bands you see and then like I'm not knocking I I don't want to knock anyone's efforts or talents or art ever But like some you know, some people they just they you know, they don't you know, it doesn't translate It's a genre where authenticity as we often say is the most important thing. Yeah, and it You can stick around long enough. You can see. Yeah. Yeah, and they and they and I was right about them They they they stuck around because I saw them I've also seen bands that I was impressed by that were a band for about a year. Yeah, of course You know, they come they were cool. Yeah. I you know, so it's like and then that's like with anything That's with anything but like, you know, they were one that I was like, oh, they're they're that's a good That's a solid band right there. And then, you know, then I have to obviously Cross paths with them more and then we ultimately ended up touring in Europe together and doing stuff and I got to know them better and like yeah I mean, we're you know, we're very cool with terror guys, of course What is the response to legacy like at that time because I like my generation that was the new mad ball record. Yeah, right Uh, and it was it was it connected. Yeah, did you feel I think it was decent? Yeah, I think it was cool I think I think so. I mean, I'm trying to remember tours that we did We did something with like walls of Jericho and then we did like a tour like we did a bunch of like random things, but I feel like it I feel like it uh I feel like we got on people's radar again Like I feel like we did 100. Yeah, and then the heaven hell video dropped and like I feel like we were on our way to be like, hey We're back and like, you know, I was 14 15 you got on my radar period, you know, and so for what it's worth, you know, absolutely Yeah, what was the first european tour post mad ball reunion like bigger crowds than ever other than dynamo Um, I don't know that it was like crazy overwhelmingly big But I would say probably pretty pretty solid pretty solid europe's just consistent man. They're just You know, they ride they ride with you man. They're with you. They ride with you. Yeah, yeah, once you got them I mean, you know, and but that that keeps you honest, right? Yeah, because it's not just hype driven. It's like You know, you can you got to show your stuff out there and then if you stick with them They stick with you and it's reciprocated and it's awesome You know where america is a little bit more Hype driven, you know, it's like, you know, you you know, you could it's about the new Yeah, whatever, you know, it's instagram and this and that and it's like very you know And that's not i'm not knocking any bands here either, but it's just it's just a different culturally different You know before we move on I have one more thing. I forgot September 11th happens on the day that Is the the anniversary of rabies passing away? Yeah, was that Something on your minds that day already mean I mean what happened probably like You know Trump's at all, you know, like you're not but yeah, I mean it is pretty crazy that it's like because that date was like immortalized on shirts Yes, yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it was more like an afterthought sure But yeah, it is kind of it's kind of a dark day. Yeah. Yeah, weird dark sided two years later Infiltrate the system. Yeah I went to like five shows on this tour. Oh, okay. Cool. All I want to say nice Opening track I remember hearing very vividly the day it went up and just thinking like vintage mad ball. They've done it again Who who's writing this record now usual suspects? More myths now, obviously I mean, yeah, the usual suspects as far as like hoya Mids myself Riggs was playing drums. That's right. Yeah You know Whatever you want to say about the guy Very good drummer. Very solid drummer He he he did his thing with the drums on that record too. Like he really I remember there was a couple things where I was like You know, maybe let him rock a beat real quick and like let's let's get inspired by that, you know And that that was like a thing that like we had never really done. Interesting. You know what I mean writing a round Yeah, like kind of like what do you what do you hear for this or like, you know what I mean? Like we did like we were like we experimented a little bit as much as we could but yeah usual suspects writing and uh My lyrics and you know, like, yeah, yep. Yep. Well that another big music video for the title track On this where there is like a crazy cast of characters in the video Okay, there's stigma. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's josta if we'll trade the system. It's all yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's ezak There's a guy named riko. Yeah. Yeah, he was homie riko. Yeah Was he a bouncer at cb's back in the day could have been I believe he's one of the guys in like the underdog set He's an old new york skin. Yeah um He's you know, he's one of he's one of our homies, you know, he's one of my guys um He might have yeah, I could very well be or could have there were these uh, it sure looks like them There were also these twins that were bouncers there that we used to know You know from like, you know, even outside of like cb's but like uh frank and james um These two like I think they were twins, but they were like close brothers. They were brothers, but they were like You know close in age, but not twins, but uh, were they like were they like powerlifter huge? They look like two powerlifters Yeah, yeah, they look like two powerlifter guys and uh, but yeah They ended up like bouncing at hip hop clubs that we would go to sometimes and stuff like that So like we would see them in other circles, but like yeah, they were they were like They were security there, but I'm not sure if if uh riko was riko did security for cb's But could could could be sure he he he might have yeah, he might have done it jimmy's in the video. It's just you know Kind of everybody. Yep. It's very cool and frank from obituary and how cool is that? It's unbelievable and I don't know if I've mentioned this we love to know things And you know that is I think that is a video where it's like You do have to know who like all these people are and then the message of infiltrate the system like it's a very cool Concept yeah for fans of the genre. Yeah, one could say thank you One could say hardcore has infiltrated the system now In now more than ever movies tv Taco bell We're everywhere Granny is it is the taco bell the is it turnstile related turnstile military gun there. There's a few scowl really? Yes scowl. Yeah, where's the heart? Where's the hardcore? Person in that in that in that corporation. Oh, Sam. There's somewhere. Yeah, that's all let us all know hit pretty up No, you're right. You're right. It has and I mean that was sort of where I was going with that And the fact that it's happening is pretty it's pretty cool interesting How do you feel about turnstile being the first hardcore band to win a Grammy? God bless them. Yeah, good for them. That's right. Good for them. You know, uh I think again, there another band that like As they've transcended like, you know, this was their starting ground the hardcore was definitely where they came from but like They've gone somewhere else. Yeah, sure And as long as they don't forget where they come from they never will Then it's all good. That's how I look at it agreed and like yeah, man go into that world and go snatch them up I was actually texting with Vitalo the night that they won the Grammy. I was like, I can't believe that hardcore is even that in the vicinity Of like a Grammy. Yeah, like but like these dudes like hardcore kids have won a Grammy It's like wild like I would have never 50 million years thought that possible, you know, I mean Um, that's such a specific and exclusive, you know, like like it's just a weird world that I didn't associate with our world. Yeah, of course, but But good for them man. Yeah, good for them. I know we saw we you know, we brought them out. We did a set it off 25 year anniversary Tour And you know, we handpicked them moves turn style. I think it was like downpressure at the time All these bands and we like, you know, I you know, I could see that they had something, you know, I mean and like Yeah, man, they they're they're they deserve it. Good for them I'd like to play a little game if you're open to that. Okay I'm gonna list off some bands. Okay. If you can tell me the first word that comes to mind first word Yeah, that comes to mind. Maybe the first couple, but you know, okay, you get it. I just realized why you're doing this, by the way Okay, let's go antidote classic carnivore hard Hard Harder The iceman cool leeway dope the misfits the misfits, um The misfits what can I say for them? I'm trying to think of like a one word. Yeah, you can make a you can do a phrase it's um Iconic there you go. You killed that straight ahead scully Bold bold It's flinchel. Okay. Yeah. Yeah break down. Oh groove Yeah, uh burn fire Gorilla biscuits Cool Uh judge judge wow. Wow Straight edge hard, that's right Underdog unique into another whoa even more so life of agony I like life of agony. I mean no, I know I there's a video of you singing uh Underground I think yeah, just before I really dig it. I I was really into when they when they first dropped I was like, this is dope Yeah, um, I'm just trying to think of a one word or that that describes that. Yeah I've vagny Brooklyn there you go killing time ah the best I agreed uh marauder pretty hard. Yeah, especially with minus Mm-hmm quicksand quicksand Eclectic there you go That was a great answer cry with thorns. It's like if music was graffiti Whoa, that was unbelievable Unbelievable that was really good indecision Indecision is it's pretty hard. Yeah. Yeah um Pretty damn hard All out war Heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Last one's a fun one. Okay neglect bloody I love it Bloody I love it. That was fun. That was worth association. Yeah with Freddie mad ball. All right so late 2000s mad ball Matt you're still very much doing your thing while hardcore is doing something else, you know melodic hardcore is like reigning supreme at this time Yeah, but that era is about to end. I guess so. Yeah, you know, um I think trapping to ice comes along and you know, yeah, and and and things change What what what comes to mind with the late 2000s kind of post post legacy post infiltrate the system touring uh era for mad ball I would say I mean just we were just In motion man doing what we do, you know, um, a lot of a lot of euro a lot of euro stuff But you know always we always mix it up You know, uh in the in the later years we've done like more strategic touring where it's like We don't go out for these crazy long grueling tours. We do like more like regional stuff Which I think helps You know keep the band sort of like we're in the mix, but we're not over playing or whatever. We're not playing ourselves out but it's also beneficial to us Family wise, you know what I mean, you know for me especially Uh hard touring band touring. Shit sucks. That's a young man's game It's a young man's game And I want no part of that but I will I will jump in there and get and get and get in there if it's Makes sense if it makes sense, but so yeah, like I'm thinking late 2000s. What are we doing? Like we're you know, we're we're just we're just playing man. We're just doing doing what we do I saw you a lot a lot of a lot of cool euro tours though a lot a lot of cool. They're still you know, we're active man We we stay in the fight You do empire 2010. Yeah another decade is coming gone. Oh, yeah, you had mad ball remains. Yeah What comes to mind for this this era in this record? Well, yeah, I mean a lot a lot comes to mind. That was like a weird year There was a lot of stuff happening and different and and people's personal lives and there was a lot going on but uh Yeah, we still managed to like Pull that one out And I mean, I'm I'm you know, I'm proud of that record like any other man, you know, it's like it just was just it it was You know, uh Who we were at that time, you know, what where we were where we were at that time, you know, so um what I rate empire as our best record that we've ever done probably not but I think that this there's still a lot of like Good songs on there and like, uh, you know, we were just kind of just trying to like Keep things going and I mean we had you know, we had some drummer weird weird stuff with some drummers that the Certain guy that played on them Jay who played on the record, but then he was soon after he was out after that There was some weird lineup stuff So it was a weird time weird time weird time. There was weird lineup stuff. There was some personal stuff going on with hoya There was but you know like we we we held it together man Like and you know mitts and I really worked hard to like Keep that together You know because we had all these songs and all these different things and we kind of really Uh, we wanted to make sure that it was gonna happen. You know, we wanted to make it happen And so we did and we did just that and then I was the upside to that is Did that come out in 2010 that was 2010? so I think my Yeah, my wife was expecting During that record. So that was the You know Beautiful things about that. You know, my son was born in 2011 But like that was like the year where like, you know, so I was starting my family So that side of it was great. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't I don't I'm trying to think of highlights of like that year nothing Super special, but we were like trekking along man and doing our things. We did something with Eric Rutan, which was different for us Metal guy. Yeah, great guy. That's the metal cool cool guy. Yeah awesome guy And that opened up a relationship um with me and him with him and I because Then I I I ended up producing an agnostic front record at his studio. So it was like It was cool, you know, so yeah that that You know, that was that was it was a cool year. A lot of a lot of a lot of cool things happen Yeah, I mean, I think hardcore got that was like the start of another generation for sure Yeah, who came like yeah thinking about who's out at that time like who started nails Like I said trapping the rise Terrorists That was keepers of faith. Yeah. Yeah. So that that was a good period for them. Yeah, we started right around Yeah, that was when we became touring guys off the backs of yeah The way that mad ball paved. I feel like us and terror did some euro stuff around that time period too. I would bet my life So, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, no, it was good. It was a good time I mean the record like I said, it wasn't like our most, you know, talked about record or like whatever Like it wasn't like our biggest the biggest push we've ever gotten but it was it was it kept you going decent effort It was a decent effort and it was yeah, I kept this going and and and there's songs on there that I really You know, I back I got you. Yeah as you should This uh, this has nothing to do with the record, but okay What do you think is the most underrated new york hardcore band of all time rejuvenate whoa Talk to me rejuvenate tommy rat. I mean That was fast. Yeah, you meant that you meant to me. Yeah, I got it Well, because I got a shout out tommy rat because to tell me rat was like a fixture in the new york hardcore scene from the beginning the very beginning first day up until like Into the 90s like way like maybe even into the 2000s like he was like this old character that like Man like if you know, you know like tommy rat was like this classic dude and like Ask kreg about tommy rat like kreg's like best frontman ever but like He was it wasn't like he wasn't like doing flips or anything. He just was like he's he's funny, but like yeah Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna give that to tommy rat cool. I respect but but but there's several there's several there's several Underrated um Sure, Tara wouldn't be underrated, right? I think I think to a modern audience probably. Yeah, okay ton. It's for me like Yeah, no same not to me But if we want to get more serious not that rejuvenates not serious, but like This is a little more serious. Yeah, I don't hear them in a lot of conversations nowadays and um, yeah, Paul's still out playing you know and does random tours and stuff but like just stylistically and you know Just yeah, I mean They're they're super important to the new york hardcore movement Super important super important. They're like one of my favorites hardcore lives the appropriately titled eighth lp Yeah, and uh, I almost forgot about that one. Yeah But you've been involved with hardcore for 30 years now as of this record. Has it been that long? Yeah, I mean that now it's been Yeah um, do you See an end in sight for mad ball or is it just to the till the wheels fall off? I don't know the end like I don't see an end in sight. I don't know if it's till the wheels fall off. I mean I it's just kind of like I don't see an end in the very near future. Good you know only because We all feel good. I got a great group of guys I mean the album that we just wrote is like like Some of my favorite stuff that we've ever done. So like It's hard and like and then our trajectory is still like good, you know, like You know, we're still doing stuff where like I'm like, wow Like, you know, we're still playing show like we'll go to like we were just like I had like one of our more successful euro euro tours like one of the more, you know recent Tours where we you know, we're doing festivals and club shows and You know, and it was still like very vibrant and good. So I guess as long as it's good It's a good for them good for us. Yeah, I saw you three months ago in LA. Yeah, and your cardio is off the charts Oh, thanks, man. You ain't slowing down. Try. Yeah, what's your what's your regimen like for that? How do you prep? Nothing spectacular nothing like special. Are you like a runner or anything? No, really? No, I do my running. I do more running on stage I mean that is a whole different beast of cardio 45 and there's no way to really prep for it. It's repetition, man It's just because I just Been doing it as long as I've been doing it. And it's also like I really don't Know any other way to do it with mad ball And that's part of it. It's like if I can't do it on a certain level or to a certain standard Then that would probably factor into like me not doing anymore and that would that applies to everything that applies to the music like if the standard is not up there with the songs Live performance then that's when you have to evaluate or reevaluate what you're what you're what you're doing, but like We feel we feel great like we feel young we feel Inspired like especially with this last album. I mean, you know the the lineup I have now is like The best like I like these guys it's that same feeling like back in the days like these are my brothers It's not like that. I've always always had that family thing was like I'm with my brothers, you know like not just a dude Yeah, that plays an instrument well And you know, he's just tagging along. He's just gonna no I'm with my brothers, you know So You know, Mike's my drummer's been with me 15 years now. It's like these are the new guys He's been with me 15 years, you know, even Mike Granari has been eight years in the band, you know, and then the most recent is pa you know who Who finally we finally got we finally Have a permanent like a confirmed Replacement for Hoya, which is like it's tough things were like a little bit like we had like a team Of guys, you know, and these are guys that have filled in for him in the past. Mind you Yeah, just Paul Delaney did a europe tour 20 something years ago What Hoya couldn't come on the tour and he did it. So he's our original Fill in guys our original go-to guy ringer guy But he's also a dear friend for 25 plus 30 years, you know, I mean so like These are not just people who are pulling off the street or finding on the internet like This this is still a family operation and those are big shoes to fill. Yeah big And if anyone knows Paul Delaney's playing Uh You'll know that he's gonna be okay Doing playing the bass because he's one hell of a bass player. Yeah, I've seen He's a hell of a bass player. Yeah, I mean he played with bands like kill your idols and Classic, you know, new york stuff and like, you know, he has his own band black anvil, but like he is a Very solid bass player. So I'm not worried about in that department. But yeah, no man, it's it's it's it's uh If anything I see Good things ahead. I see positive things. I see upwards Movement I see I see a lot. I see a lot more Happening especially with the state of hardcore. Yeah, exactly. It's never been better. Yeah for the cause 2018 As of now the last mad ball record. Yeah, but we know now no one's coming produced by the great tim armstrong How was that experience? It was cool Tim had oh tim had wanted, you know, we've been talking about working together for years um And so he he he had You know, he offered me his place and It's super super cool studio man. Like really really nice place really comfortable place and uh Yeah, we just talked about it and he was like and next record bring it to my spot And he only has like it's not open to the public to everyone. It's like Exclusively like if he invites you You know, you can use his studio. It's cool. Um And so he invited us and like took care of us obviously, you know, like financially was very Fair and reasonable and like all that so, you know, because that that is a part of the process um And yeah, I mean Then and we put that we had a lot of it done before we went to him So that was written like we had a lot of the writing done and then uh, we just went there and and banged it out and like He was like helpful like like we bounced like uh, you know, like Timing stuff off of him, you know, like like like tempos What do you think faster? So like there was a lot of little things like that where he was really good at. Um He wasn't super like invasive as a producer Because I think he respects us too much And and respect respects the time that we've put into this and that We're at a point where we sort of know Like what we're doing we know our craft, you know, like so that's not to say Mind you, I wouldn't have my like I'm very open to like any ideas or whatever like you you're there Super open to not like don't tell me what to do. Just put your name on the thing. No um, it wasn't like that, but it's like but he had a lot of respect for like He respects us as a band and whatever so he like let us kind of do our thing but then he would chime in a little here and there and You know give his opinion or two cents or I would ask him like I what do you think about that? Should I go more this route or that, you know, but uh Yeah, I love that record Hell, I love the sound of it. I love the songs. Yeah, you know, you know, it was it was it was a good time Yeah, yeah shortly after that A year and a half The world shuts down. Oh boy. Yeah for another year and a half on April 24th 2021 Mad Ball plays Tomkins Square Park, which has a long history with hardcore beautiful history. Yeah, really In the like the first hardcore show post pandemic You open with lockdown, which is hilarious. Yeah, very self-aware. Yeah Uh, what was that experience like and did you see any of the blowback online from it? Oh, yeah, yeah, we saw blowback. Um, I mean The experience was great It was a great show. It looked awesome. It was fun every video you like Enough of this like locked up, you know, everyone being locked up nonsense and like, you know I mean, whatever everyone went through what they had to go through and everyone has a different, you know perspective on what went on or whatever won't get into all that but Clearly everyone was fed up and in new york, uh There had been like A joe biden rally like the week before and there had been all these other things that happened out in the open Yeah, that no one really shined the light on because It was okay politically or something You know, like there was a rally with like 10,000 people for like celebrating, you know this and that like, you know but like those things were okay, but like um People getting together to have fun. It's not okay That was the kind of the vibe but um after the fact but I mean man, it was so positive and like I didn't even like like When my friend joey like mentioned it to me the possibility of us doing a show like hey There's a possibility we can get you know a show happening in the park and it Before he could even ask me are you down? I was like, I'm in And he was like, okay, that's all I wanted to hear and I was like, yes, I'm in Would you want a headline? Would you want to whatever when I was like, I don't care I don't care. I don't care where I go on. I was like, it doesn't matter. I was like, I just want to play Yeah, we just want to play everyone's tired of the nonsense and the everything that's going on and New york was about to open the doors anyway. Like they were about to like like I mean it was like a day They did they did so it was like Yeah, we're doing it. Yeah And so really the first show was going to be was going to get the flag you took the bullet for everyone It just happened to be you and and I don't mind at all. It's one of my proudest moments doing mad ball For the statement that we made doing it Looking at people's faces and how much fun they were having and I could I you know, I contributed to that. Yeah, I'm down I'm with it. You know people could say oh germs this that amen, you know, you're not gonna get around that That's everywhere. That's I mean like I said the the next day they opened up the doors and everybody came outside So like literally what's the difference? Yeah, you know, there's that meme of Squidward watching Patrick and SpongeBob through the window that was like me on my phone Washing everyone have fun in a mad ball show while I was locked. It was so positive and that's the thing it's like to put a negative spin on it was like unfortunate because When you got there it was like smiles happiness sunshine All positive, you know, you like crowd was great Far back is I've never seen that many people in Tompkins Court Park and that was like my park That was like I lived on 10th street, which is right at like the parks right on the corner Were you at the breakdown show there in 1987 or eight? I don't remember if I was at that breakdown show, but that's a classic. Yeah, that's a classic one I might have been I don't know Did a bunch of punk bands play that tune and all you played I think so I might have been there. I think knowledge You did play that. It's awesome. Yeah, I think I might have been there um Yeah, that's a big maybe but yeah, um Tompkins is great for for shows. I mean, it's out, you know, it's also it's it's it's it's part of our history like that area I did the rabies, uh, one of the rabies, uh Celebrations, you know tribute, you know to and uh, the one that fire burn play That was that was awesome. You know, Todd you've asked me to do we were actually Supposed to play a show we were headed to a show and like the kipsy or something and then Todd asked me if I if I would do a song and I was like and we like Went did the song bounced. Oh, yeah, we played a show. I think that night. Yeah, but uh That was fun. Yeah, I mean it there's an energy there man Like the shows at Tompkins are like that there's a vibe. I'd love to go to one. I love you but no one no no it was no vibe like that one where when you know We uh, you know When open the doors without, you know permission. Yeah I got you. So there's a new Mademoiselle record coming What else can you tell us about? I could tell you the name. Yeah, it's called not your kingdom And I could tell you that I could I I Predict that you're gonna love the cover It's a very throwback vibe. Okay. Okay Um gives a nostalgic feel to it, but it's also current it's very In line with like the lyrical content and the message and uh It's by far the most diverse mad bomb even more so than for the cause Which I thought for the cause we did a lot of melody. Yeah Yeah, we did a lot of different stuff and which we were happy to do because it's like you can't just keep Doing the same album over and over. It's like, you know, I mean, yeah, obviously you want to hear our sound or but I like that we were venturing out and doing different stuff on that one and this one is Yeah, there's like some songs that are like Reminiscent of like can't stop. That's awesome. But then there's like some more like Doc Monteson vibes like hey, boy, you know vibes like but still mad ball Still very mad ball. So it's time. It's time. It's very uh Eclectic in the best way I think I think I hope I I mean, I'm the you know, like it's gonna be for the people to judge Mm-hmm. But I'm super proud of it and and and writing with these guys was very natural Was it like forced it wasn't like, oh, well, you know, it's like it was You know, we all were like hungry to it's been like 2018 like since we put out an album it does eight years. Yeah, it's time. Do we have a way too long Do we have a release date or a single drop may may? Yeah, it kept getting pushed back because of this like nonsense Like the album was done but then like we had to get a remix because if we didn't like the first mix and then Artwork got held up and then then you got to wait for it to go into the like nuclear blast like System, uh, which is always like why can't you just drop this tomorrow? Yeah, no, that's not how it works. Yeah so Now it's finally like in the system and it's gonna come out in May Here we go. See it's gonna You know, I think it's gonna I think people are gonna Take it. All right. I hope so. I can't wait to hear that's the hope So let's say mad balls on tour right now And you're a little hungry as I'm sure you are right now as we all are Yeah, I'm getting there five hours later. It's hungry o'clock. It is hungry o'clock What uh, what's your poison? What are you into? Well, what's your favorite thing we're like we've like Grown a little bit and evolved a little bit. I know you guys are like We like it all But we will Dive into the dumpster if we need to yeah, but we we dined fine. Yeah, we did I think you're you're I think the answer you're looking for is somewhere in the dumpster But I want to know the no this the high rise. Well back in the days. We got into everything. Yeah, you know, I mean like just Whatever was open having a Cuban family and growing up in south, florida I imagine you have some of the best food in the world down there. I'm very my mom is a very good cook like she she She definitely like she would cook for agnostic front Like that was like a traditional thing that would happen like they would come on tour and my mom would make a feast for them and She only like she's been doing that up until like just like last year She's getting a little older now. It's a little harder But whatever but like she was doing that forever. Yeah, that was like a thing So my mom could cook so uh, yeah, Cuban food's like it's just food to me. But um As far as like tour food like when we were younger, we'd get into whatever, you know, you name it, you know Denny's Waffle House, whatever, you know, but you know, all the all the all the all the usual nonsense, I mean in europe like Late night Donald's runs Like that'll save you. Yeah, that's that's just kind of amazing life affirming. It's kind of amazing. Yeah But we've gotten more sophisticated these days And like over the years and you know, we're getting a little older. So we have to act our age a little bit. So like Yeah, we these days. I just like look for like quality man like Solid like mom and pop good Good like good ingredients preferably organic If not, it's okay Good quality nice food doesn't have to be Michelin starred if it is i'm not mad And talk about infiltrate the system like we've met like chefs that are not like oh, I work at a Michelin restaurant Oh really cool. Yeah, we know like, you know, you know what I mean crazy infiltrate. So it was like Crazy, but like yeah, we eat a little better now What's your okay? So let's say you're touring in the u.s And there's a city on the tour With a restaurant in it that you cannot wait to go to. What is that restaurant Quebec City? Let's catch up. Whoa Quebec City. Yeah, and it's a weird name because it's like catch that's it Dude, what kind of leaveable? What kind of food is it? it's like french like You know, so we're in Quebec. So A lot of french inspired Stuff, but it's like their own thing. It's like, uh, it's like new french Canadian, okay, like I don't know it's like modern friend. Yeah modern french like, you know with its own twist just really well sourced fish meat whatever it is and the thing about that place is like It's a small tiny little place. So you're lucky if you can get in there and get a seat we've been lucky the last bunch of times to get in there and It they're cooking on like uh, like electric crazy wax stove like, you know, not like a you know high-end like whatever, you know what I mean like a You know, it's like it's like very Simple stuff and they're making the most amazing. Wow. It's gotta go. Let's catch up. Let's catch up. You seen ratatouille? Oh, yeah, you like it. Yeah, I love it. It's good, right? It's great That's what I'm saying. What's wrong with residence? No, that's what I'm saying. It's the battery like his favorite movie. Yeah, the best one. Oh, I love it Yeah, I do you like watching all those movies with my kids, you know, like but that one that's it's crazy Last time you watched red it's two days ago On the way here watch it at home now when we get home I'm hungry enough where it'll it'll really hit me It's awesome. But yeah, no, we we we better these days. We we we try to find we try to you know Find nice places you're waiting for luck. Relax and and and and eat something and it might be one meal a day You know, like we'll do the coffee thing in the morning. Yep And not starbucks. Sorry starbucks But we do like good mom and pop good quality coffee spot and maybe get a little snack there But sometimes we only end up eating one real meal a day So we figure if it's going to be one meal a day it might as well be something good decent make sense Mike Dijon told me he put agnostic front onto good coffee Could be and they now rogers like Mike Mike take us to your uh, your next your gentrified coffee. Yeah, where we go in here? Yeah, oh I would guarantee that. Yeah, I would I would I would concur. Yeah, because they don't they don't they don't know about Coffee and food like us. They don't they don't they don't they don't need to but they don't yeah, but yes, it would take a dijon Yeah, that makes sense to Point them in the right direction and add department gentrified coffee for sure. All right. We've got one final question for you. Wow Freddie mad balls top four hardcore records of all time Victim and pain bright side Um in that order Sheer terror thanks for nothing. Thanks for nothing. Yeah Better recording than ugly and proud I just love the songs. Yeah Those songs that's like one of my favorite Albums to ever come out of New York hardcore. I agree. It's it's it's it's amazing. Yeah And maybe negative approach total recall I can't give it all to new york. No, I got you You know, I mean, there's of course honorary mentions of age of quarrel and leeway and certain You know That's it. That's it for ungrateful answer great answer. Yeah, you like those. Oh, yeah I like to be order the victim of pain bright sign. I love to hear that you love bright sign. Yeah, that's awesome Oh, yeah, you know one of my favorites. Anthony's on a song on a new album. Really? Yeah, I got him to do a feature I've been wanting that for years and I finally Was like just gonna ask him and then he was like, oh man be honored and And he killed it class like Anthony sounds exactly how you would want Anthony to sound on a feature It's like this he took him from bright side and Inserting him into our song. That's amazing. I was like I can't wait to hear it. Can't wait to hear it. One more question actually. Oh, talk to him. Do you say new york style before it can't stop on stop Hoia, it's hoia. Yeah, and it's taken from an interview It was it was snipped out of a An interview love it always wondered. Yeah, I think he echoed in the interview in your style Yeah, that was a little studio tricks But the but him saying that was from a japanese thing that we did. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah That's awesome. Yep. Just took it out and boom threw it in there, but it worked in it Yes, it did. It sure did and you know, we we put all our homies, you know, my boy ld. We put his beats in there Oh, yeah segues. Yeah, I don't think a lot of people Were doing that around that time, you know, we're like that was like our homage to hip-hop Uh, but also a way to put on our people. Yeah, because it was like our boys beats stuff. So yeah Well, this just could not have been more pleasant. I think thank you man. Thank you. I think I had a pleasure with you guys Man, it's awesome for your time. Thanks for having me. I'm sorry about the congestion everything. We never noticed at all Um, we're so grateful that you join us. We're so grateful that mad ball exists. Oh, thank you man and continues to be grateful to you guys for You know, big in the culture up man. Keep keep doing what you do. Please We'll try we need it. You know any parting words you have Right there Send send them home. Happy. Thanks to you guys for having me. Appreciate appreciate the invite Something I've been saying for years and I'll say to the new generation I love the new I love the new music that's coming out. I love all these new bands I love that they're all doing their own thing and there's so much freedom to do your own thing But don't forget where this comes from don't forget the roots of the music and the bands like agnostic front who literally Paved the roads that we all walk on I've been saying that forever and it's you literally how it's it's not it's it there's I mean It never gets old. Yeah, because We're in a place right now. We're like the general it's like a huge flip like we're in a Completely new time right now for hardcore And I'm grateful that I'm still in the mix and we're still in it and a lot of us are still in it, but Don't just jump on the hype Embrace the culture is what it's what I'm trying to say really, you know, I don't you know That that's that's that's the message and I want to put out there To the people perfectly so they show each other respect and be classy And let people have a difference of opinion It's okay to have a difference of opinion. You don't have to put everybody into a box You can have a difference of opinion and still have respect for each other. There it is Cheers guys. That was five hours with Freddie Maddow. Wow and uh, Unbelievable unreal. Thank you all for joining us. We'll see you next week. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me This episode is brought to you by mad vintage