Here in Central Illinois, you had the original settlers came from the south. Yeah. And then with the completion of the Ereken Island in 1825, suddenly we had people coming in from the lake, from the north. They were Yankees. And Southerners were Southerners. And so they met together here in Central Illinois and had differences of opinion. Yeah. Lincoln had to learn how to deal with both. And he was in a minority party. The weeks were small in Illinois in those days. So he learned a lot of what he had to implement in the White House, right here in Central Illinois. The division in the nation was growing over the issues of slavery. And what he faced was there was really no historic example that was hopeful. The French Revolution, the rebel said one and essentially it ended up another dictatorship. Americans are capable of achieving extraordinary things when they have the freedom and opportunity to do so. This is American Potential. Welcome to the American Potential Podcast. I'm your host, David Fromm. Today we're coming to you live from Springfield, Illinois, celebrating America's 250th anniversary and also celebrating the 217th birthday of one of the great presidents, Abraham Lincoln. So, you know, obviously President Lincoln embodied and believed in so many of the founding principles and really preserved them. I mean, he was the president in the most tumultuous time of our nation. So I know a lot of folks here in Springfield and across Illinois are really proud of his leadership and are happy to celebrate his birthday. So we're joined by a special guest who you may think is Abraham Lincoln because he portrays him as an actor. Fritz Klein is joining us. He's going to be part of our celebration here tonight and kind of bring a lot of President Lincoln to life. So President Lincoln, how did you come to be in Springfield and are you enjoying your birthday? Well, birthdays are something that occasionally are a nice occasion, but I don't pay a lot of attention to birthdays. Mrs. Lincoln does, but not so much me. But yes, how did I get to Springfield? Well, that's a bit of a story. I grew up in Indiana and when the time came for my stepbrother and his family to leave home, they wanted to go to Illinois. And my stepmother was not going to allow those grandchildren to leave. So she and my father and myself all came to Illinois as well. That's about the time when I was ready to leave home too. I was 21 and so I settled eventually with my parents over in Macon County. But then I embarked along the Sanguine River in a little village near here where I studied law. And when I got my license, I moved to Springfield to practice it. This was the county seat at the time. Oh, yeah. So, you know, one of the things we're talking about is at this event is our one small step campaign. And it's about how did, you know, people encouraging people to take that step to get involved in the, you know, public policy and in their community to take action to make a difference. And when we look back through history, there's innumerable examples of that and that were super consequential and shaped our nation. Well, obviously, you know, you President Lincoln had to take that step to get involved in some way. How did you tend, how did you get involved in public life? Well, my father and I shared a lot of views on politics, talked a lot about weed issues. And in those days, banking was one of the big ones. The President had refused to recharter the Bank of the United States, and that started a bank war. And so I felt like it was my civic duty to do something to oppose this policy. And I've always felt like one of the main duties of a national government is to provide a sound currency for the people. And that was destroyed with these, this refusal to recharge the bank. So I got involved in politics at a local level and it became a lifelong struggle. So, but fortunately, we've been able to restore that system during my administration. Yeah, that's great. Congratulations. Yes. Did that and, you know, you know, and did the Civil War. That's pretty amazing. Yes, we ended the war as well, but we had a few other things that we did in the meantime while we were struggling against the rebellion. Well, here in Illinois, we reached last year, our organization was very involved in a fight to early over-regulate homeschooling. And we used to talk about you as one of the original, one of the great success stories of homeschooling. Now, obviously back in the day, probably when you're growing up, most everybody was probably homeschooled. But what was that like? Well, I learned my letters at my mother's name. Yeah. And after she died, I inherited her Bible. And that's that was the book that I took to school when I first went to, I had that in a Dilworth Speller. And we, books were rather rare in those days. So she got me started. And then I had five terms of school, but they were fairly short. We didn't usually start until after Christmas. And then about February, about this time of year, we'd have to be on the fields down south where I grew up. So the vast bulk of my learning, I did at home. Yeah. Studying what books I could find. And my mother encouraged it and so did my father. So yes, I studied at home more than I ever studied in a school. Yeah. Well, those parents are often the, you know, the primary educators of kids even today. Yes. Well, my father couldn't read or he could write his name and my stepmother couldn't read either. But my mother could read a little. That's fascinating that folks who are either illiterate or close to it and we're able to really bring forth one of the great leaders of this. Is there of our country? Well, you know, my father was not the first born and the laws of primogenitor gave Uncle Mort the inheritance, the education and he had all the good things in my father's family. So my father struggled because of that and felt like I should receive as much advantage as I possibly could. Wow. Wow. One last, so one last question for the president. When you ran for office, what, what spurred you to run for office? And like, I know there was some fits and starts or success and failure. Tell me, tell me what that was, what happened there and how you decided to do it and what you learned from it. Well, I mentioned the banking issues. And that began to change and I began to lose interest in politics and began to work at my law practice, probably more assiduously than ever until a whole new issue came up and that was the spread of slavery. We'd had something called the Missouri Compromise, which kept slavery out of the Northwest. If that had continued, we could have gotten rid of slavery without a war. But when that was repealed, it opened the nation up to a permanent situation and that's when I took up the stump again to speak against it. Well, so sometimes national politics affect us in a regional situation. Yeah. All right, turning to Fritz. Fritz, I love that. I love how, you know, you do such a great, you're so, and so character. And like it and it's educational. So how did one, how did you come to, you know, portray President Lincoln? Well, my wife and I were involved in a missionary organization called Youth with a Mission. Okay. Back in the 1970s. And I was involved in some dramatic productions. And when the bicentennial came around in 1976, I was skinny, had a beard, and I'd done a little drama. And so they asked me if I would portray Lincoln. And we were going to get the material that they use at Disneyland, but we couldn't get the rights to it. So I made up my own program using Lincoln's words, calling the nation to prayer and repentance. And that became by 1980, four years later, it had become full time. Really? And we moved here in 1982. Wow. And it's been full time ever since. Really? Yeah. So the first production was 76. And here we are now in the 50th year. Wow. So after all the time you spent studying him, I mean, what are some of the other truths about Lincoln that you like, that you like to bring out the past? And then are there things that surprise you about him? Well, one of the great things about Lincoln, apart from the war and the interest in Civil War and that era, is he's called the last of the Enlightenment presidents. And so he deeply revered and fully embraced the principles of the founding fathers. Yeah. Now, not all presidents do that. Woodwell Wilson believed that you could just interpret the Constitution however you wanted, not Lincoln. He was original intent all the way. He believed that the concept of equality, he likened it to like a ring that had a jewel. He said the Constitution was like a setting that was framed around it, but the principle of equality was the jewel that motivated this nation to become as great as it was. Now, he distinguished between equality and equity. Those two things are sometimes confused these days. Equity means somebody has to arrange it so that it turns out the same for everybody. Equality means you get an equal start in the race of life, but then you're on your own. So it's a meritocracy and Lincoln believed in that. So those are concepts that I believe in too. And I love portraying Lincoln and bringing those things out. What are some things based on your knowledge of President Lincoln that you think he would applaud and Howard going as a nation and things that might concern him? Well, this may surprise some people, but Lincoln was big on tariffs. When he went to Washington, he stopped in Pittsburgh, stopped in a lot of places, but because Pittsburgh was an industrial center, he assured them that he was going to reinstate some of the tariffs that had been rolled back over the years. And there were reasons for that, but there was something called British free trade in those days, which had put us at a great disadvantage. So that was a very similar situation to what we have now. Let me see. What was the rest of your question? Are there things that he'd be dismayed by or that he'd be concerned about? Yeah, I believe so. He lived at a time when the concept of equality for all was being diminished and entire classes of people were being outed, you know, the color graces of blacks. And that was very disconcerting to him. I think that same idea is at risk in these days. The quality of life, the way people treat folks that disagree with them. And Lincoln was an amazing man. He could have people who opposed him in certain areas on his cabinet and work with them and not dispute about or pobble about the differences, but come together on the similarities. I think that's something that is rather rare these days and it would be dismaying to Lincoln. So just for you personally, you've been doing this now for 40 years? Almost 50. On the Fourth of July, it'll be 50. That's amazing. I mean, what's it meant to you personally? Because you're really channeling someone who's one of the most amazing people, but you're your own person. Has it made a difference in your life? What's that meant to you? Well, it has. I was naturally a very shy person. And to get up in front of people and be friendly and all of that was not my cup of tea. And I've learned how to do that because of Lincoln. And I've also learned a lot about politics from Lincoln because of his familiarity with the framers and the founding principles. I started to see that what we have in this country is unique. It's uniquely suited for human nature as we find it. Lincoln believed human nature doesn't change. So people who think, oh, we need to change our system. They're barking up the wrong tree because we're just the same as our fathers were in terms of the way we operate. Self-interest is very strong. So I've learned a lot from Lincoln and I've learned to like him as well. Really? Yeah. What was he like? If you had to describe his personality, because we see movies about him, you read about him. You see the same pictures of him all the time. You just make assumptions. But I've had glimpses just in readings or other things. He would be like, wow, was he kind of funny? He was funny. He was gregarious, spontaneous. He did the unexpected thing. He was careless in a good sense. He wasn't particularly careful about his appearance, which bothered Mrs. Lincoln. But he was the same wherever he went. And so those were, he was much more concerned about inequalities than appearances. I like that. And I've learned to be more that way from Lincoln. And sometimes my wife reacts the way Mrs. Lincoln did. Are you going to go out dressed like that? Oh, I guess. Do you ever say to her, yes, I am Mary. There's very few similarities with Mrs. Lincoln. But yeah, and because I have a lot of very brief encounters with people, I try to bring out the the jocularity and the humor. And I've learned how to be fairly spontaneous with humor. And that's been a fun thing. That's great. Yeah. Because I don't think people see know that, because we see pictures and he looks, everyone from back in that era looks kind of stated and stoic. Yeah. And you weren't supposed to smile for photographs. It would be similar to doing bunny ears for a photograph now. Even paintings, people didn't smile. And so they look like they're all sour, but Lincoln was not at all. And so when he told jokes in the White House, his voice rang out louder than anybody else's. Really? Yeah. That's great. I hope we see that tonight. Yeah. Who's that loud guy? Oh, it's the president. That's just birthday. He gets to be loud tonight, I guess. I think one tree we have tonight is I know that you're, you're going to, we have a birthday cake for you for president. And you are cutting the, you're blowing out the candles. Two hundred and seventeen candles. We didn't have turned 17. Yes. We're going to place a multiplication. Right. Yeah. You get to blow them out at the end of the night. Serve everybody some cake. Yeah. So tell me about like, you know, when you look, obviously he's one of the most consequential figures in American history as far as, as far as president. Yeah. What, you know, going into this and with the civil war really being that crucible, like his life led up to, to that. And his leadership was so phenomenal and important for us to have a nation that we have now. I mean, when you reflect on that, what do you, what do you think about? Well, you know, what I said earlier about getting along with people who don't agree with you, he, he was trained in that because here in central Illinois, you had the original settlers came from the south. Yeah. And, and then with the completion of the Erie Canal in 1825, suddenly we had people coming in from the lake from the north. They were Yankees and, and southerners were southerners. And so they met together here in central Illinois and had differences of opinion. Yeah. Lincoln had to learn how to deal with both. And, and he was in a minority party. The weeks were small in Illinois in those days. So he learned a lot of what he had to implement in the White House right here in central Illinois. The, the division in the nation was growing over the issues of slavery. And what he faced was there was really no historic example that was hopeful. The French Revolution, the, the rebel said one and essentially it ended up another dictatorship under Napoleon. The other results of revolt happened in the revolutions all through Europe in 1848. And in almost every case, the, the people who were in charge won and the rebels were either killed or ousted. And so what we had on our hands, it didn't look good either, either direction. And it didn't live to face this, but how do you end a rebellion and maintain a free country? Yeah. Do you install a police state on the former rebels in the name of liberty? You know, there were a lot of unanswered questions. And so, yeah, when he left Springfield, he said he was facing something, a challenge greater than Washington faced. And I really believe he was. Yeah. Washington knew that whatever he did would become a precedent. Right. But Lincoln faced something that was unprecedented. And if people followed his footsteps, it could be disastrous. I kind of revere Washington. Yeah. So I think he's an amazing leader who could have served power and does, but he also had a much longer timeline. I mean, the general part was different. You know, the army, the war, that was short. But from a leadership standpoint, he had just a lot more time than president Lincoln because it was like wars here, the nation's tearing apart. We have to figure this out because it's an active threat right now. And, you know, the leadership, I mean, did it take a real toll on the president while he was in office? Yes. He felt like it was killing him. Just the wear and tear on him. And you look at the pictures, my goodness. Of all the presidents, I think those four years took a deeper toll on him. They always do. But, yeah. And he sensed that. So, yeah, it was just so consequential. And he was a man, and, you know, it was just on his shoulders. Yeah, it was. It was amazing. So I really, one of the things I admire about him, you talk about, you know, the team of rivals that, you know, embracing, you know, but I mean, the, he was, he was someone who, despite the fact that, you know, there was a civil war, you know, he really did seem to reach out and want to, you know, heal divisions. Yes. Feel, you know, what do you, do you have any insights? I'd say like, if he hadn't been assassinated, like where he was going or how do you think he would have approached the aftermath? That is an interesting and difficult question. You know, rebuilding after war like that presented a set of problems and questions that, you know, those soldiers did not want to stay in the South. They wanted to come home. You know, after World War II, we had soldiers that were permanently in Japan and Germany and still are. We have bases over in those countries. And that wasn't the case in the civil war. And so that, that was a huge problem. Now he was a problem solver. He probably could have slogged through it, but he would, he loved to get input from all sources and all kinds of opinions, you know, and then he would make his own decision. Sometimes he didn't pay any attention to anybody else's opinion, even though he wanted the opinions, he still made his own decisions. Wow. That's unique in that respect. But the aftermath of the war, there's no telling how I would have gone, you know. I think some of the vitriol that happened after the war, his character could have held some of that down because he was a very forgiving man. Yeah. But where's the line, you know, there were, there were people in the South that were just ready to reinstate the kind of persecution against blacks that they'd had before. Right. If, if the court came off, you know, so how soon do you do that? How soon do you let them on their own? And Lincoln might have been a little, you know, early because of his forgiving nature, you know, it's hard to say. Well, all right. So for our birthday party tonight, when you are, you know, when you're portraying President Lincoln, what's, what's the most fun part of it for you? And why do you keep, like, why do you keep doing it? What do you find fun about it? I love the children. Yeah. And the children are just one of the fun things. But I love people and just hanging out with folks and cracking jokes and being jocular and friendly. I feel very good about that when the evening is over. So yeah, I have fun with everybody. Nice. Yeah. Well, Fritz, I really appreciate you being here, but certainly being part of our podcast. Well, say, President Lincoln, I appreciate you being here. Yes. Well, thank you very much. Thanks. Well, folks, if you liked this episode, please like and follow us on our channels and also follow us on social media at Facebook, YouTube and Instagram. Remember, Liberty and freedom are easily taken for granted. Don't take them for granted. Go out there and defend freedom and liberty. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you on the next episode.
