Writing Through My Anxiety Led to a Life I Never Expected | Sadie Robertson Huff | Ben & Erin Napier

What's up? Whoa, that's good fam. I hope you're having a great week, but per usual, it is about to get so much better because we have two very special guests on the podcast. One is back for the second time. The other one, it is the first time appearance on Whoa, That's Good. And I am thrilled to get to interview Ben and Erin Napier. Welcome back to the podcast, Erin. And welcome for the first time, Ben. What's up? Thank you so much for having us, Sadie. We're supposed to be there in real life today, but the weather there is absolutely horrible. I know. The weather is nuts. And I'm glad you even said that because for those who listen, you might hear thunder roaring in the back. And yeah, it is even hailing here today. So it's good for you all. You aren't here, but stinks for all of us that we couldn't hang out. The next time it's going to happen. But next time. We're going to be there. Yeah. No, I'm so excited. Like I mentioned, Erin, you were on the podcast when my mom was doing interviews when I was postpartum. And I went back and listened to that episode and it was so encouraging. And I remember that being one of the favorites of the year, truly just reached a lot of people and people were very encouraged and loved it. And so it's a joy to have you back with your hubby this time. You know, I know you got asked the question, but Ben, you haven't been asked this question yet. Ask everybody in the Let's Go podcast. If you don't see this coming, I'm sorry it's going to come so from left field, but it's okay. Just whatever comes to your mind. What is the best piece of advice you've ever been given? Boom. Do the best you can. Don't worry about it. You're ready. Right. Well, it is my go to because it's this, there was this, my dad is a preacher and they were at this country church for a while and there was this guy there who he was born with a speech impediment. He was an older man. He was born with a speech impediment and because of the time and the place that he was born and grew up, his family was like, Oh, well, he's handicapped. He's not going to school. He's going to like work on the farm or whatever. He never learned to read and he also had very poor vision. Yeah. He was blind basically, but, but he couldn't, they couldn't get his glasses figured out because he couldn't read or write. So you know, this, they didn't do the picture charts like they do with toddlers. They may do that now, but back then and also like, you know, he thought he could see before you guys as you thought you could see, you thought that that was what things look like. And so he, but also like he had this speech impediment, but he was very short. I mean, he knew he was perfect. Perfectly fine learning. He had all the abilities to learn. They just had never been taught. He had a lot of challenges. He had a lot of challenges and, but he had a great outlook on life and it was do the best you can to worry about it. And everything is going to be, everything's going to be all right. It's so great. In some form or fashion. Those are the best kind of pieces of advice because they stick with you because that is something that I will now say to the best. I think about it daily. It's so easy to think about that. And it's so true. It's a small piece of advice. It goes a really long way. Um, Aaron, I know you've shared before on the well that's good podcast, but do you have any fresh best pieces of advice for us? Um, yes, my friend, Lisa has really exceptional kids who are her youngest is now in high school and her oldest are all in college or graduated and they're all remarkable. She's a worker. She and her husband both working career people, but they were super involved in their kids lives and always as a family that would sit around the dinner table and talk about their five people, the five friends in your life who are influencing you are make making you who you are. So what are those qualities of those five friends and let's talk about it. And it would, she learned by talking about it regularly helped her kids weed out friendships that were not good with people who were not shaping them into the person they wanted to be. And so, um, that's, I think great advice. You can even talk about that with a first grader. Yeah, it's so good too, because instead of like you as the parent having to come in and say like, you shouldn't hang out with this person or that person, it lets the kids figure out discernment and who they should hang out with or not. I love that. That is so good. When my kids are old enough, I'm going to bring that one into our rotation. Well, like growing up, our parents are always people that our parents, both of us have talked about that our parents didn't want us to be around. And at the time we were very like, you don't know what you're telling, you don't know them. And then as time went on, we figured it out like, Oh, you were so right. They were right. Yeah, it's so true. So it's a way of them figuring it out on their own. It saves you a lot of that, that just being stupid with the wrong field. Oh my gosh. It's good. Um, okay. So last time you were on this podcast, Aaron, you were talking about when you first met Ben and you mentioned from your perspective that you felt like you were just bombing it every time you all talk. You just didn't say the right thing. So I got to hear now that we have been on the podcast to clear this. Did she bomb it? What was y'all's first meeting like Aaron? Do you still feel like she says that she bombed it and she's, I've heard her say that, but I didn't know what I was supposed to say to a boy I had a crush on for a year when he walks up to me and finally says hello. Like, I couldn't say I love you so much. I want Mary and have your babies, but I was very, um, tell me what you wish I had said. Well, what did you say? So it's very, it came across very differently from my part. Now I'm very, I was very confident back then. Um, and I was so smooth before I had kids and before like I became just a dad. Um, so it's the last day of where everyone's moving out of the dorms, college, last day of freshman year. Um, I'm going home for the summer. Don't know if I'm coming back to school. Don't know what, like, you know, at the time I was not focused on anything. And I knew who Aaron was and had also had had a crush on her. And since the first week of school was the first time I saw her. And like Aaron had noticed me because I was very active on campus and every president of every club having a good time, every page of the year, but he's there. But, um, but I had just noticed Aaron, she was walking across the student union and they caught my attention. And, um, I was like, wow, that girl's really striking. And I was very interested in her and I knew her roommate. I didn't know that it was her roommate, but she was sitting with this girl and I knew the girl she was sitting with. I walk into McDonald's. This is my opportunity to walk over and speak to this girl that I've been admiring from a distance. So I walk across the room and I'd never like, I would just see Aaron like in the student union. She wasn't involved in like, she wasn't at any of the events that I was running, except for like, she might show up to like a midnight breakfast in the cafeteria or something. And, but we wouldn't interact. She would just be there. And so this is my chance. She's sitting there with this person. I know I can walk up and speak. I walk over, I talk to her friend and their friends like, I don't know if you know my roommate Aaron. I was like, oh, hey, I'm Ben Napier. And Aaron says, I know who you are. I work with a guy who looks a lot like you. And me being the ever so smooth, ever so confident, you know, six foot six, very handsome, very, you know, I'm like, oh, he must be a very good looking guy. And I said, yeah, I guess, I guess. Oh my God. And I was like, I couldn't say the real thing. That was a hard position to be put in though. Those tough positions. It was very dry. I'm sorry. I put her in this position. But what she should have gone with and we could have, I would have just not gone home for the summer was, um, yes, he does look, he is good looking and you are too. And I'm in love with you and we should get married and have kids. And then we could have gotten this. You totally would have been completely accepting. Absolutely. If you had said that in that moment, I would have been like, hindsight's always 2020, right? But is it true, Aaron, that you actually dated the guy at your work because he looked like Ben? And that was kind of the reason. He was a very, very nice guy, but he was diet been, you know, or not a diet being just different, different. Dr. Pepper and Mr. Pibb. He was very quiet. No, we're very, very different. We couldn't have a conversation. But he looked like Ben and I like, he looked like Ben Napier. So I went on a few dates. Nice. There were two more door slams. Um, one was, I totally bombed a conversation with Aaron. I was trying to like use something to pay her a compliment. I told you at the time she had a pixie cut and I was like, short hair. Like that, that's, that looks really great. A lot of, a lot of girls can't pull that off, but it looks great on you. And Joy, her friend who was sitting at the table with her had. We had literally come from the hair salon where she had cut her hair that was to the middle of her back up to here. Oh my God. I just said that most girls can't pull off. And so I have to say, I have to step out for her and be like, well, it's funny that you say that joy just cut her hair. You're just trying to know. You know, so yeah, it looks great on you. You didn't even notice the juice layer. You, yeah, joy. It looks, your hair looks great too. Okay, bye. See you later. So that was the second one. Then the third one was, I was driving across. I think I covered all this year a year ago. No, no, no. This is fresh crowd, fresh audience, new years. I remember whenever we started low and I had all the what ifs, what if I fail? What if it isn't where I need to be? And looking back, I can see so clearly that God had his hand in the whole thing. Starting something new is exciting, but it's also very scary. And that's why I'm thankful for Shopify. 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With Shopify today, sign up for your one dollar per month trial today at Shopify dot com slash woe, go to Shopify dot com slash woe again, that Shopify dot com slash woe. Third one, I'm driving across campus and I see her walking out of this building. And I'm like, it's going to time out perfect. We're going to meet and I slow down and a buddy of mine was in the car with me and he let the window down on his side. She's walking and as she's stepping up, I'm noticing that Erin was crying. She's like red eyes crying. And I went, oh, shoot, she's this girl, she's crying. And I said, hey, is everything OK? And she said, and I had been in that building earlier that day. And she said, how been someone stole my purse out of the yearbook room? And some people said that you were in the building earlier. So my mind immediately being this poor, you know, kid from South Mississippi, I was like, oh, shoot, she thinks that I stole her purse. Of course, I didn't. And I said, I said, I didn't steal your purse. And she said, no, no, no, that's not what I mean. I was I promise you, I didn't steal your purse. I wondered if he had seen anyone running with a bag across campus. So I like drive away like, all right, well, that's it. I'm never she's never going to speak to me again. And I need to look in other places. And and then I finally got it together when he was running for. I ran for student body. Mr. JC, Mr. Jones College. And, you know, it's for the yearbook. And it was as a jump me and my buddies did it as a joke. And he was in a tuxedo shaking hands. Yeah, I was going around campaigning shaking hands. And she was walking out of the building with a group of friends and I knew everyone in the group. And I was like, hey, I said, you're going to vote for me, right? And Erin, very flirtatiously with her eyes. Well, I had to look at me and said, you know, I voted for you. And it was like this moment where I was like, OK, the door is now cracked open. It's been slammed three times in a row. This time it was cracked open. And then the I didn't win that. But the yearbook ended up doing a story on me and. How was the editor, the design editor? Hey, oh, and we have been in separable sense. As fate would have it, the design editor in the yearbook. That is so cute. I love that so much. That is the sweetest story ever. And I think it's really cute, like the awkward tension and the cuteness of you all both liked each other from afar and didn't know how to like tell each other that. And you were playing. We should have just said it. We should all be more honest is the moral of the story. See, that is what I was going to ask you, though, because people are out there right now in the same pickle. They like to guy forever. The guys like the girl forever. They don't know how to break the eyes. Coming from two people. How do you break the ice? Listen, I had a long conversation. We were in our office, so there's people walking around. I love it. They're normal. They're good. They're supposed to be here. So we we had I had lunch with a friend of mine who's in her 20s this week. And she's like, Aaron, you just don't understand how awful and hard the dating situation is if you're in your 20s. Nobody will just say what they mean. And everybody is so like just trying to be like lukewarm and too cool to say I like you. And I would like to get married sooner than later. And then I would like to have a family. Yeah. And they're not saying these things. So they just have what they're calling the situation ship, which I learned about. I feel young and hip knowing what a situation ship is. I still don't understand it. Well, it's not something that we did. We met and six days later, we're like, let's get married. So we all that all those moments with the all happened within six days. No, no, no, that is over here. Okay. Yeah. Over the course of a year and then when the yearbook story happened, we were together that day to work on your book and we were together nonstop for six days after and then he was like, I love you. And I think I want to marry one day and I was like, well, me too. And so oh my gosh. And see this is for me. It was big that my parents met him in those six days because he's just my friend that came by the house with me, not because he was a boy. Yeah, we weren't dating. Yeah. We were in a situation. Six days. And my parents were just like, he's wonderful. And they had never said anything like that before. Still the best son of all they've ever had. The very best. Of course. I only have a brother. That's so awesome. And hey, you're preaching to people out there because seriously, like, be honest, you know, because it, you know, one time, I'll be honest, I have a tough story on an honest moment. So my friend had a friend that she had liked for she kind of liked him for a while and she would always say, you know, well, if I don't get married, like I'll marry this guy, you know, like that was kind of always their thing. Like, don't get married. This guy. And I was like, I think you need to tell him that you like him because I don't like what if he doesn't feel the same way or what if he does? Because if he doesn't feel the same way, at least we can, like you can move on and not have that in the back of your mind that one day you're going to marry him. But if he does feel the same way, then let's speed this process out. Well, we wait nine, you know, why are we going to wait years when it could be now? And so I was like, OK, like you should do it. You should do it. Well, then she did it. And it was like so tough because he was like, oh, I didn't see it like that. Like I totally thought we were just friends. Well, then I felt so bad because I was like, oh, I'm the worst. Like, why did I tell you to do that? It was so crushing. I should have needed to have it. But at the same time, she was like, no, actually, that was a good thing because it's stuck in the moment. It was terrible. But then it was like, actually, you know, that need to happen. And she was like, because in the back of my mind, I always did think he might be the one. And now I'm just glad to know, you know, so I think it's always good, no matter how it turns out, because you at least have clarity. And it helps you move on. Like it helps you either move on to the right person or he would have been the right person. You'll either get your happy ending or you'll get clarity. Yes. Clarity may come with heartbreak, but it is clarity. And that's a good thing. Well, so I feel like we're kind of like we've all gotten a little too afraid of heartache. I mean, some of the greatest country songs of all time are about heartache and the greatest greatest stories we've ever read are about heartache. And you you read in the Bible, there's so much heartache. And I it's not necessarily bad. I mean, yes, it is tough in the moment, but you always there's always good that comes after it. And you never had your heart breaking. I don't know. I didn't get in. I didn't I didn't get accepted to Duke University and get recruited to play basketball there. That was pretty heartbreaking. It was. OK. Heartbreaking look different ways. Sometimes it's from a break up. Sometimes it's from a disappointment in life. And that's true. Actually, I'm reading through Psalms right now. And I haven't read through Psalms in a long time, like just my favorite. It's been so good for me. Like it has retop me how to pray, think. It's for the end. Just people. It's praise the Lord. And yeah, I feel like it tells you where you're at in life when you're like, I'm reading through Psalms. You're like, oh, yeah, how's your heart? You're going through. How's your heart? You know, but it's true. It's like to your point, we don't know how to deal with the broken heart. We we fear it when sometimes it's necessary. And watching David go through so many. I mean, David's one of the ones that talks about going through heartbreak the most. And it doesn't look like a relationship. It looks more like running from his enemies or feeling like God is answering him and like all these things. But it's so cool because in those Psalms, it's like the truth of how hard heartbreak is matched with the truth of how faithful God still is in the midst of it. It's always like, but I will still praise you, but you are still here. You are still in it. So cool. I've been kind of underlining those, but this and this, like this can still be true in the midst of that. And so to your point, like, yeah, we fear that. But if it's worth gaining clarity, it's worth it. And that's my I want to talk about this a lot with Aaron. And we talk about a lot and we talk and talk about it with other people. But so growing up in my house, when I was a little kid, my parents lost everything financially. Like we they literally they had a this old dad's in car because the bank said that that car has no value. And so they let my dad keep it. And we were going down the road when this is one of my earliest memories was riding on the road in this car and the hood flew up and busted the windshield. And my dad's solution was he he jerked the hood off the car and threw it in the ditch and kept going. And so this is the kind of car we're talking about. And so but up to that point up until I'm losing everything like my dad, he was a big farmer and he had it was this weird bank loan situation that is actually an illegal loan. They can't do it anymore. And anyway, he lost everything and he rebuilt it all. And then he lost it all again. And so my perspective on. Hardache and loss was from watching my parents lose and rebuild and start over and then have a surprise baby late like late in life when they they really like as far as the world was concerned, they did not need that child. And he was he was a you know, a miracle situation. And so I'm always looking and that's the whole, you know, do the best you can and don't worry about it because like. At the end of the day, everything's going to be OK. Yeah, it's it's hard. It will be very hard. You will have very hard days and an air and that is probably her greatest fear is not being prepared and not like. When I'm not seeing it coming, whatever it is. Yeah, it's most people. I feel like most people find themselves in that. Like, because fear is the unknown, right? It's like the what is it's always like the what is what could happen, what might happen, all the different things. And it's so true. It's like, we don't know what's going to happen. And so you that's why like reading through the Psalms is so important because it's like reminding you where does my help come from when it happens? Who is my strength and my shield? Who is my council? Who is my rock? Who is my guide? Who is my peace? And it's like it's kind of building up your faith for when those things happen, which is so cool. So I got to get back to this six days and then you said, I love you. This is so great. How long did it take from I love you to when did you actually propose and what did that look like? So Aaron's dad had a rule that we both had to have a degree before we could get married and finish our four year degree. And I was very like up until I met Aaron. I was here for a good time. I was here for a good time and I didn't care if it lasted a long time. Like I was not. I had no. I mean, like I was not a thing about the future. I was not thinking about the future and I still probably don't think about the future because I long as my thing as long as I've got Aaron and the girls, then we're going to be great. But for me, college, like it was my first chance at freedom. And I still like I've never drank alcohol. I didn't drink in college. I didn't do drugs or anything. But I was the rent like my friends who like, hey, you know, y'all are going to be drinking tonight. I'm driving. We're not going. We're going to go to New Orleans and we're going to sing karaoke at the Cats Meow. And it's going to be great. And we're going to drive home. It's sunset and we're going to miss class tomorrow. So my college career was not going that great. And you could have used a little focus. I needed some focus and that came through. And you don't need a college degree to do the job that you do, which is the best part. That's. But Aaron's dad, like, you know, you got to have a degree. And so I think he finished college with like a three point. He was it was barely over. Unbelievable. You had to have a two point out of graduate. And I mean, to transfer to to a university in Mississippi, and it was like a two point oh one. Like, I mean, he was barely there. He got into Ole Miss and he graduated from Ole Miss with a three point two. I made nearly all A's and B's at once I was at Ole Miss. And and I was there. And it's funny because Ole Miss is a party school. And there was no party. I was buckled down going to graduate. And you we met Christmas 2004 and you proposed September of 2007. Yeah. OK. So yeah, it was a fast like I know I love you, but then it took a minute to to kind of slow it down and get ready. We would have gotten married right then. Yeah, I told her on six day that I wanted to marry her or I felt like I wanted to marry her. So but didn't have the degree. And my parents were like, that's fine. That's great. We love Ben. But let's finish college first. See this first. Hey, there's some there's some wisdom in that. That's some good advice. I love that. So obviously, like people know you all now from hometown, HVV and all the different things that you all do together. But at the time, were you all both pursuing that? Or what were you guys pursuing back in the day? No, I got an art degree, my major's graphic design, my minor's printmaking. And I worked in corporate graphic design for my first job after college, like in a glass corporate building in a cubicle and it was soul crushing. And then I had started a side hustle doing letterpress wedding invitations. And at the time, websites like Minted did not exist and where you can just like order letterpress anything anywhere, anytime. There was no Etsy to do it from. And so my business really blew up and I left my day job and we bought our dream house in downtown Laurel and we renovated it together. But I had written an online journal, a blog, I guess, but a journal that was only about the best thing that happened every day because I struggle deeply with anxiety and worry. And which is why Psalms is my favorite. Either I walk through the valley of shadow of death, I'll fear no evil for the art with me. I ride in that staff, they comfort me. And I learned that when I was like eight years old and I've never forgotten it. I get real anxious. Because you were anxious. You were an anxious. Yeah. And so the blog, the journal blog was a practice in daily counting my blessings, counting my blessings. And it really changed my life. Wow. Totally. Because if I had had a horrible rotten day, I had to sit down at the computer. If someone I love had died that day, I had to sit down at the computer and write because 10 people were going to read it. My mama, my friends, I mean, no one cared. I just it was like a personal challenge. But I had to sit down and think of something that was wonderful. Well, something that was a blessing in that that day. And that was where this all like the show, the everything eventually stemmed a producer just saw the journal and reached out and asked. They saw that we were renovating our own house and we did it really thriftily because he learned how to build things. I knew what I wanted, expensive antiques that I couldn't afford. Then I would ask him if he could build it. He would build it. And then I got the look for cheap. And that was really, I think, what drew HGTV. Well, and it's so we were talking about heartache earlier. And my goal was I was going to get I was going to be you're going to go to law school. You're going to go to law school. I was going to be a politician. I was going to get involved in politics, politics, because I wanted to make a difference in the world. And I was, you know, going to. And then at one point, I was like, I think I want to do something different. And I was going to be I was going to get a degree and be a college professor and or teach at Jones College, the college that we met at before we transferred. And and then and all of those things I was failing at and struggling with, and which is hard when you're a newlywed and, you know, in a traditional situation where you're like, you know, I'm supposed to be the breadwinner here. I'm the one that's supposed to be, you know, providing. And I was struggling through that. And then through Aaron's blog, he was a youth minister. Yeah, I was a youth minister for 10 years. And I reached a point in that where I knew that it was like God was sort of saying, like, all right, it's time for this to end. This is coming to an end. And don't worry about what's next. And that was the scariest. I kind of had a break. We were in St. Augustine, Florida. And Aaron was painting a bit. She was doing a painting of a building. The journal that day was tricky because it was it was honestly not a very fun trip. Ben was like having an existential crisis and trying not to worry my wife, who was prone to worry. He didn't want to talk about it. And she was like, what's wrong? What's going on? You're why are you what's wrong? And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. He felt like he didn't know how to connect with young people anymore who were living more and more of their lives digitally. They had a whole world happening in social media that was outside the world in real life, where he was trying to minister to them. And it felt. And I didn't know how to cross that bridge. And it felt very there were some other things. The other thing is your brother, your brother was graduating from high school. And he was your link to the people that age. Yeah, he was 10 years younger than me. And he was going to be graduating from high school. And that was my connection, my connective tissue up to that point. And and then also there were there were some other things that had happened with some people in our church that was it was making it feel like this feels very obvious that God is saying you need to stop and and let go of this. And a friend of mine who's done my business partner, Josh, now was like, you. I don't understand what the fear is because it seems pretty obvious what God is telling you to do. And needs help running her business. You already know how to do it all. And you like building furniture, do that on the side. And it was this moment of like, oh, OK, that's great. And so I I've gone through all this heartache. And then in the end, everything was OK. And we were fighting, trying to hold on to this thing that I had been doing for so long and that felt like the right like to walk away from professional ministry. That feels like, oh, you are walking away. Like the night he wrote the letter to our pastor, his resignation letter. He typed it and he put it in an envelope and he called our pastor and said, I want to have coffee on the breakfast with you in the morning. He's like, oh, no, I know what this is. And then we went to bed and Ben was asleep. And I was scrolling social media and in my DMs was a message from the producer at HGTV, who was just reaching out to ask if we had ever thought about doing TV. Whoa. That night, the night that you were that night, which didn't feel like it didn't feel like anything that would actually happen. It only felt like you're going to be a God saying something is out here. Everything's going to be all something is out here. Whoa, that is actually crazy. That that's so real, though. I'm so glad you shared the grittiness of walking through that because the reality is like so many people right now who listen to this podcast because primarily from age 20 to 35 are listeners. So is people trying to figure out what they're going to do in life? What's next? What's the next step? And so to hear you say like, no, there was a time I was thinking about law school and politician and this and that. And then I'm in youth ministry and then that felt really like the clear direction. And then 10 years go by. And it's like when you're confident in something for 10 years and all of a sudden you feel a shift, it is really hard to wrestle with that, especially like you mentioned in ministry, because then you have the question of like. It's like you're not walking away from the Lord, but you're walking away from ministry. And so that can sometimes. Is this my like in my attorney, my back on my faith in this moment is this, you know, this is and my dad's a preacher. And so it was like this is what you thought you do. Yeah, this is huge and terrifying. Yeah. But the greatest advice that I can even offer is that every plan we ever made, every plan we ever had, did not happen. Yeah. None of it happened. I was going to be a magazine design editor was my dream. I thought I would live in Birmingham and I would design magazines for Southern Living, Southern Living or Coastal Living, Coastal Living, Cottage Living, all the livings. It was going to be all the livings. We were going to be living. I wanted to design magazines about beautiful houses. I could just instead design the beautiful house. I didn't think of that. And then, you know, like we I was scared to ever have kids. And then we had Helen and it was the greatest thing that ever happened. And it's like every single thing that we were thought was the right thing. And what we wanted to do, God had a thousand times better idea and plan. That is so great. There's OK, there's a book. Streams in the desert. Do you know this? I've heard of this. I've not read it. The greatest collection of devotionals in history. I'll fight anybody. I'll fight somebody. I was the greatest. I love it. It's an old one, very, very old, but it's daily devotionals. And the one that really relates to what we're talking about here is it said, mind the checks God sends. Quiet. Little, you just little whispers, little true zaps throughout your life. And if you're not asking for them and you're not paying attention to them, you'll miss them. That's so true. But if you follow them, even if it feels crazy and scary, that's really the direction he's trying to guide you. It's great. I love that. Thanks for sharing that. I was thinking about this verse I just read as I've been on my Psalms journey in Psalm 16, and it says, I bless the Lord who gives me counsel. And the night also, my heart instructs me. She was like, that kind of runs me those checks. It's like you kind of feel in your heart, like the instruction of the Lord. But sometimes you don't listen to it because it feels like crazy or scary or intimidating. But then it goes on to say, I've always said the Lord before me, because He is my right hand, I will not be shaken. Therefore, my heart is glad and my whole being rejoices. My flesh dwells secure. What a promise. Then it says, you make known to me the path of life and your presence. There is fullness of joy at your right hand or pleasures forevermore. And that has been like so speaking to me because this has been a year in my life that has felt like, whoa, everything's crazy and changing. But when I look back at last year, there were a lot of checks that led me to make decisions that made last year to really prepare me for this year. I just still didn't see it coming. You know, like, of course I didn't. How could you see the full picture? And so we like geared up to start filming our new show, which felt so crazy. And a lot of prayer was involved with that. And our whole life was just kind of being restructured. Because as you all know, filming a TV show is busy and a lot of work. And so we finally felt like, OK, we're ready for it. Well, after the very first day of filming the new show, the next day I found out I was pregnant and it was a total shock. And it was like a great surprise. But to be honest with you, I was like so overwhelmed because everything you weren't ready. No, everything I had spent time like preparing my heart for for what I thought this season was going to look like just felt like it went out the window because I was like, now I'm pregnant. So and I must we are having this baby and then I will be on maternity leave. And then this and that. And then I'm going to be pregnant the whole time we're filming. And it was just like everything I thought got kind of shaken. And I would be honest, like the first week and I felt so bad for this because it wasn't about the baby. I was so happy about the baby. I was just so serious about my life changing, you know. Yes, I was so just nervous. And every time I thought about the future, I just get nervous. And it's so cool because now about step into my third trimester. I have been so thankful for the timing of this baby. Like, and I truly mean that it could make me cry because I'm like, God, you knew so much better than I did. It has kept me so grounded almost in this season of life, feeling so crazy in the show and then speaking in the book and everything. And I'm like, but I have a baby in me. Like I have life forming in me. And it's sort of like the like all that stuff doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Yes. It's like this is just telling you, you got to slow down. Yes. And it's it's slowed me down. It's kept me so true to where I'm at. And it's the most real thing about my life. Like it's just so beautiful, the timing. I'm so excited for August now. I'm so excited for all the things that are going to change and happen. And so to the point of like, yes, like the Lord, everything you have planned, it doesn't ever happen the way that you planned there and the way that you thought it. And I think what I've learned now, because I'm like you, Erin, I was always an anxious kid. I like to be prepared. My worst nightmare would be walk. I literally have nightmares. This is a reoccurring nightmare in mind that I get on stage and I forgot to prepare something to say. Like I actually have that reoccurring nightmare. So I hate not feeling prepared. But what I've learned is like, OK, what does it look like to not be prepared for a moment, but my heart to be prepared for it? And like keeping my heart ready, keeping my heart in a good posture. And that looks like a daily surrender to the Lord so that your soul, your flesh is secure. It doesn't matter what tomorrow it looks like, because my flesh is secure and trusting in what the Lord's going to do. And so I love that y'all share that and the grittiness of that. And it's just so cool that that night the Lord gave that. And it's normally right after you take the leap of faith. Like it doesn't happen before. It's after you write the letter and then you're like fully ready that the Lord goes, OK, now I'll show you what's next. But I love how you said you didn't think anything of it necessarily. When was it from the time you got the DM to you were like, well, we're doing a TV show and what did that look like for y'all? It was six months later when we filmed the pilot and they told us it probably, you know, it may air and it may not air. Because we don't mean I don't know how much you remember from the beginning of that dynasty, but we didn't know like anything about TV. And then so in our mind, like we filmed this pilot and we knew that it like they invested so much money in making that one episode. That so we're thinking like this is going to end up. Sorry, a train's coming. Right. Hello, trade. It's very loud. So, you know, in our minds, like it would be silly to invest that kind of money and not put it on TV. And you're like, oh, no, they they film pilots and throw it in the trash all the time. Yeah. So. So we had no expectations. We did it for fun. And there was another year. Whether it airs or not, we all just like send us a copy of it. So, you know, we have it. It was a year after we filmed it that it was actually on TV. It was six months. It was January. Yeah, but we wrapped them in them. It was we just filmed in July, 2015. It premiered January, 2016. And it was the most watched pilot in HGTV history because there was a snowstorm on the East Coast. And everybody sat at home and watched TV that day. And that is so cool. Oh, my gosh, that's crazy. It was. So then they ordered season one. And we still are like nothing is guaranteed. Yeah. And it's the number one show on the network. But we're still like I I fully expect to not be renewed every single time. Yeah. Which is which is a tribute to our production company is. Good at managing expectations. Good at managing expectations. They were like from the beginning, they're like, this could be over tomorrow, so have fun with it. And we're like, OK, sounds good. And and, you know, now we're and it's different once you have kids, it changes. None of that matters. And it's so true. You it's like, you know, hey, we're going to be we're not going to do that because it's made out of. Yeah, or here it's filled day. We we can't. This is something I was talking. OK, at field day, every single parent was on the field, like watching the kids when I was growing up. I don't think parents came to field day. And we were having this conversation like, I think this is a millennial thing. Like our parents were working when we had stuff like this. They'd be like, have fun at field day. See you at home tonight. But we're like there for it. And I don't care. I don't care if it. I just don't care. Yeah, I'm going to be at field day. I can't work. I'm sorry. Mm hmm. I love that. That's my priorities in this season. Yeah, for sure. We're going to be little for such a short time. You know how fast it's going. But also it's like it's for all like we are, you know, in a very. Bless financially career right now. But, you know, my my brothers and all like they're they're the same way. It's like, I'm now I'm not working. This is happening that day for my daughter. So I'm going to be there. And so it's cool. It's across the board for us. Yeah, it was awesome. So now you are doing a spin off show as well. So how many years have you all been in this? Hometown takeover. We've done three seasons. We filmed that last year. It just finished airing. Hometown we've been filming since 2016. Wow. Twenty fifteen. That's when we filmed the pilot. The other pilot was in 2015. So 10 years. That's incredible. So that was none of that was a part of y'all is a vision board when you all got married. You didn't think you were going to be there. What kind of things do you guys as a couple like dream about now? What do you like dream about for the future? What do you love doing? What what makes you feel like, man, this is what this is what we thrive in. This is we have dreams. But of course, it probably won't happen the way we want. But I have a dream of homeschooling the girls grades five through nine. When they're going through the worst, most awkward part of being a teenager. I want to be with them more. I had a hard time around that age, and I just want to be there for it in a way that my parents couldn't be. And they it was just weird then homeschool was a weird thing. But now it feels like a really amazing way to get more time as a family. I mean, we just like being we like being at home with the girls. We have a beautiful garden that we've built. We're several years away from the fifth grade homeschool dream. But yeah, I love it. If you start now, though, you do kind of start thinking about those things now. Because again, even if those things some of those things are like checks, it's like an idea is like a check like, huh, maybe that is what my life could look like. And if I wanted to like that at fifth grade, then I need to start doing so now to like prepare for me to be able to step out of this and into that. You know, we got to think about those things. You do. I think it's really cool. You shared on the podcast last time, but again, this is a new audience, more people, different years to hear. Can you share a little bit about just those middle school days and what you are wanting to be intentional about with your girls and why? Because I think it's so important. A lot of people, a lot of moms and daughters listen to this podcast together. And I just feel like that would really encourage them out there. My mom was my very best friend. I got bullied and elementary school. I was a weird kid. I love dinosaurs. No, no, no, no. Most of the girls did not love dinosaurs. You were obsessed with the mascot. I was obsessed with my high school's mascot when I like where my brother went to high school when I was little and elementary school. I was like obsessed with the mascot. They're like, that's kind of weird. Um, so I see so much at Helen, our oldest. It's just like a carbon copy of me. I know every struggle she's dealing with right now. I know exactly how she feels. And I know exactly how. Gross and difficult middle school was then, but now with the light phone, social media, culture, culture. I can't imagine how much harder. Right. And that's why we started Osprey with other friends of ours who just if we all work together, collective action works. So none of our kids in our big friend group, none of our kids have phones. And the oldest are now turning 12 and they just got watches that can call and text and that's it. That's cool. Because we're all that. We're like, when we were growing up, we had landlines and you could call your best friend. Yeah. At school, there was this, there was a phone you could go and you could call. So we got a landline at our house. Our girls are welcome to use. And that's cool. Um, it is cool to like hear the phone ring. And it's it's when they, when we got our Wi-Fi set up, our tech guy was like, technically you have a landline phone, but I'm not going to hook it up. And I was like, no, no, no, go ahead and hook it up. I'm I'm I'm interested in that. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. And also when I got to middle school is when I picked up a guitar and I started taking lessons and learning to play an instrument when none of my peers did gave me other worldly confidence. And that's something I really want for my girls to find the thing that's theirs, that they can own their skill, that they really, really love. And that makes them have confidence. Yeah, it's great. That'll that'll help so much getting through those awkward years. But I love that. Well, just having your mom, she's only seven. We have so much time. She's not going to be. How old were you when Doug, honestly, started? I was 14 when we filmed our pilot episode. So a little bit older, Bella was nine. So she was around that. But yeah, 14, it was a weird time. So my our filming, our first show was from whenever I was in eighth grade until I was a senior in high school. So it was my whole high school. Yeah, girl, tell me about it. I was like, that was gross. I mean, obviously, it feels so self-conscious. Oh, gosh, I was like so insecure in so many ways. It's actually something I'm really excited about with filming a new show. I'm like, I'm so excited to film a new show and being where I'm at in life now. Like just being confident in the Lord, my relationships, knowing who I am. And yeah, now, like my daughters are so young, but this is their reality too. Like, how do I, you know, raise them and that? And I think sometimes at first I was like afraid of that. And then I was like, man, but I was the kid that my mom trusted and got enough to step into TV knowing that it was going to affect her children in certain ways, but like the blessings so far outweighs the hard things of that, you know, and the opportunity that comes with all of it. And I also have perspective now that I can help teach and help walk them through that I didn't have the first time around. That's what I love what you said about your daughter. You're like, I know everything she's going through right now. I've felt it. And I think as a mom, we have this tendency to want to try to be perfect in everything. Is I want to have it all figured out. It's like, no, man, some of the most powerful moments with your kids are whenever you're honest about how you didn't, you know, like that you can empathize with their pain, but you can't empathize with how they're feeling. And right now we're having that on a three year old level. One day we'll have that on a 13 year old level. I mean, I told honey recently we had a big conversation and I made her have the conversation. She's not want to have serious talk, but we were having a serious talk and I held her little body down until she let me have the serious talk. And then later we're laying in bed and I said, honey, I just want to say thank you so much for having that hard talk because I know when when you don't want to have a hard conversation, it can be hard to sit there and listen. I'm really proud of you that you did. And she said, yeah, mom, sometimes whenever I have those talks, I just want to run to my room and slam the door and cry. I said, I know. Yeah, that doesn't change. It doesn't change. We all feel that way. I know. Like we all feel that way, honey. I want to do that too sometimes, but but we don't because it's so much better now that we had that conversation, you know. And so anyways, empathizing with that and going, yep, true. Feel that, been there, done that, all the things like that's what helps guide them through those things. Helen's going through a hard time at school right now because there will be kids on the playground playing a game and she'll want to join in, but she doesn't know how to just put herself into it. No, you can't. And what if they say, no, we don't want you to play with us. And their thought of the possible rejection is too much to even ask. And so if no one invites her, she believes they just don't like me. And I'm thinking everybody's just little, Helen, and they're not thinking about. That's so true. So hard as a mom. So hard. And then when you're a grown up, the best thing you can still feel those same feelings. Her little sister is me. She's the extra. Helen's the introvert. May is the extrovert. And I never struggled with just inserting myself into whatever everyone else or whatever was happening that I want to. Hey, what's going on every I want to be a part of this. And May is she is that. And I have taught Helen like we were going to a thing recently and she was terrified. She was like, what if there's going to be so many kids and they're older than me? And they're all friends and they're going to leave me out. And then I don't know them. What if there's someone I don't know? And I was like, well, you just walked up to them and say, hey, what's your name? And she was like, I can't do that. And I said, well, you have an ace up your sleeve because your little sister is going to do it anyway. So you just say, may go over there and introduce yourself to them and then introduce me to them. And they do that. And when they're together, like, that's how it is. May is the icebreaker. Helen walks up to me and she goes. And then May turns and looks at who she's talking about and walks up and says, hi, my name is May. This is my sister, Helen. And then they're in. But she doesn't have her at school. And it's hard. That's so cute. I mean, that two are better than one, right? And I think to the point of seeing how y'all's relationship has been. I mean, I know Aaron, you were nervous to talk to Ben. Ben was nervous to talk to Aaron. It's so cute, though. But then y'all are the perfect couple together. Y'all's differences compliment each other so well. And that's why it's like such a dynamic duo that America has fallen in love with. It's I don't believe it was just because of the snow day that it's hit the top. Watch of all HGTV. Why is it so hard for me to say? HGTV shows is because of who y'all are. And people are so attracted to the people that you are, the joy that you share, the not only the gifting that you have, but the way you use and steward it. It's beautiful. And so to see your girls in that same light is such a such a cool thing. And I'm super grateful for the influence that y'all have in the world right now and will continue to have. And if that looks like stepping away and be with your girls for a time, I'm excited for you in that because what a gift that will be. But thank you all so much for sharing so much advice on the podcast and sharing your story. I know people are going to be so encouraged and you guys are truly a joy to know. So thank you all so much. Yeah. Thank you, Sadie. You're really so. But before we go on the like people in their 20s and 30s who don't know what to do with their life. Go to trade school or go to like if you are trying to figure it out, every plumber, every electrician, every carpenter, everybody on all of our crews are like, we can't find anybody to work. And like one of our carpenters was a chef at a restaurant in the restaurant closed and he didn't know what he was going to do. And he came and he had never done any sort of construction work whatsoever. And he got a job and it pays really well. And he's doing really like he's figuring it out. And if he wants to go back to a restaurant, he can. He can still do that. And that's I don't know. It's an interesting time in world history and American history right now where even if you can't figure it out, there is a way that you can do something until you figure it out. You know, that's very true. I said with two moms last week who have a college age or going into college kids and they both talked about how hard it is because both of their sons want to kind of just go to trade school, but they feel that intimidation of their friends around them because they're going to colleges and the moms are like, why do we have the social pressure and it's like to change that? Yes, because the mom was like, I don't I don't want to feel that. Like I don't want him to feel that it matters because it doesn't matter. But that's such a real thing. I'll tell you a quick anecdote that's not very useful, maybe, but our one of the plumbers that we work with. He's a very cool guy. His parents are like the business professional types. But his brother is a banker. Yeah. And he's he went against the grain and took up the family, his grandfather's plumbing business. And he's cool, man. He's cool. He's got a golden retriever. His wife's a beautiful college graduate professional woman. Like you can change. You can change the stereotype completely. And it's so true. And we need to because the world is big enough for all of the giftings God gave every single person. And it's so cool when we go and get so great and actually follow what God's put in our heart. The plan he actually has so much bigger than the box that we put him in sometimes in the way that we just do society. And so I love that. That's great advice. Y'all are awesome. This is so good.