‘The Martian’ Revisited, With Amanda Dobbins

Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. That's Mally Rubin and joining us today, it's Amanda Dobbins. Woo! I'm so honored to be here. Don Mobb in the house, what a treat, what a thrill. We are so thrilled that you're here. I can't even tell you. Um, we are, we've been watching a bunch of space movies, leading up to Project Hail Mary. All three of us have seen Project Hail Mary. We're not going to talk about it in detail yet. Of course, we'll talk about it on our perspective shows when the time comes, but we're going to talk about it in detail. We're going to talk about it on our perspective shows when the time comes, but we watch The Martian. That's right. Sure did. And is this conversation going to get a little weird about The Martian? Guess what? It is. But we have Amanda here and we're thrilled and we're excited for things to get weird. Are you excited? I'm incredibly excited. I also, I feel like it's my responsibility to make things as weird as possible. So I did, I watched The Martian. I've seen Project Hail Mary. I've got a lot of thoughts about space movies, my relationship to space movies. Fantastic. I've seen other things, but like if you don't think that I'm, I'm going to just try to drive this off the rails every chance I get. Is that not my job? We support that endeavor and that pursuit. That's the premise of the show today. It's the premise of the pod. But I do think we should be honest with ourselves and with the bad babies. At the top of a Martian rewatch pod, if we all say out loud into the microphones, we're going to make things as weird as possible. People are going to expect to see us farming in our own shit before the pod ends. And we'll be doing that right after this. Oh, hello. It's definitely the same day. Same outfits. Absolutely. But we're here with a very special breaking announcement. What is it Mallory? We have our own Instagram and Tik Tok house of our pod on Instagram and Tik Tok and Tik Tok. And we want as many followers as possible because we will be doing what? A book club content, playing with swords, building Legos. I heard rumor of a tattoo. You know what happened? The clips from our podcast that you already know and love going to be plenty of them there. Some interview tidbits, some behind the scenes photos. Maybe we'll do some memes. We love a meme. We love a meme. And speaking of memes, stay subscribed to the ringer verse handle because that's not going anywhere. That's going to be the delightful place that it's always been plus some fun team up content. Absolutely. But more importantly, house of our pod. No, they're all important. But house of our pod on Tik Tok and Instagram. Please come join us over there. We'd love to see you. All right. Quick program reminders. If you didn't see last week, we did a space draft with Chris, Ryan and Rob Mahoney. We did the verses with the entire Midnight Boys crew, a big crossover event. Little time traveler. That happened because we haven't recorded that yet. I was going to say remembering what day this podcast runs. Real pro. Thank you so much. And then coming up, of course, we'll have our project Hail Mary deep dive. Plus we have Andy Weir on the pod talk about his book and stuff like that. So really, really wonderful. That did already happen. What is time but a construct? Here we are. Malia, but how can folks keep track of all the things that we have going on here on this feed? Here's what I would recommend. Follow the pod. Let's start there. Follow house of our or ringer verse or big pick on Spotify. Or wherever you get your podcast, you can watch full video episodes of house of our on the Spotify app. Incredible stuff. You can also follow the ringer verse YouTube channel. You can watch Amanda and Sean on fucking Netflix. Yeah, something you might have heard of Netflix. Yeah. Let's keep it moving. Okay. I'm thrilled to be back on YouTube for this episode of the 41 on YouTube. Here I am living my dream. You can also follow us on the social media platform of your choosing and we're not going to tell you what that is. No, wherever you are, we'll be listen to your heart. And you can email us. That's right. Hobbes and dragons at gmail.com. If you want to always open. Absolutely. You guys are incredibly professional. We don't do any of this on the big picture. Well, we, I would say we've been doing it uninterrupted for four years and some might say, do you guys need to be adding eight minutes at the top of every pod to your three hour pause. Yes. But we're in a rhythm. God damn it. Let's go now in a brisk fashion to our opening snapshot. All right. So some quick fun facts about the Martian case folks don't remember directed by Ridley Scott ever heard of him. Screenplay by Drew Goddard based on the self published book by Andy Weir. US wide wide release October 2nd, right before my birthday 2015. Your birthday. I am a Libra like my younger son. Does that. That's really well. The other examples of Libras in my life were like less auspicious. So this is reassuring. I love being a Libra honestly. Do you think of the first week in October primarily as your birthday week or your ringer anniversary week, which feels more notable in your life. Oh, my ringer anniversary week. Of course. Let me say it into the microphone proudly. To me, it's a very memorable date. Think about it all the time. The budget for this movie was a mere 108 million dollars. Honestly, that's wild. Steel. The box office was the box office was 630.6 million dollars. And that's just astounding to be sitting here in 2026. Is that domestic or international? That's domestic. What? I think. What is the global box office? Let's just let's just fact check me. I showed up to cause chaos and I did not show up with facts or research. Did you fact check? Great question. Domestic 220 billion international 402 million. That makes way more sense. This is when this is when Hollywood movies still made money in China. And that's also why China is just happily going along with everything in this preposterous. Oh, yes. Yes. A fictional film. We love to collaborate. That I love deeply. But no matter what it is wild to me, we talked about this with Interstellar as well. These like original sci-fi, even though it's based on a book, but like an original sci-fi property making that much money. Yeah. Even like, you know, a big name with Matt Damon attached to like that. It still just feels like a different time. It was an event. I remember people talking about it. Like, did you see the Martian? Did you go? You got to see it on a big screen, bring your friends, et cetera. And it's one year after Interstellar, right? Which was notable for Matt Damon, for Jessica Jestein and a big space rump, but also for fans of sci-fi at scale, right? You know, and space movies at scale to be able to have these like event cinematic experiences a couple years in a row. And we're talking like this is, I mean 2014 and then 2015 for the Martian, like people were at the movies a lot for the MCU, et cetera. You know, like this was a big, go see movies with your friends. And if you're a nerd, what a time to be a nerd. I know. We were living, man. Also like a huge hit at the Oscars, which we'll talk about. Like it just felt like this is just like a unqualified hit of a movie. And I have some theories as to why not just like the fact that I think it's good. I have some like big potato. Yeah. Big potato. Idaho was the big- Idaho was the big- Yeah, Idaho was behind it. You know, they sponsor a college football bowl game. So like they're out there. Potatoes? The potato bowl. Correct. Like Pop-Tart Bowl. Right. But what was the potato bowl formerly known as? I believe it was the Idaho potato bowl. Okay. So they stay- But is it like a lot of like- What potato is it? Just like potatoes. Just an A-things. Just an A-things. Big potato. Big potato. The potato lobby sponsors a bowl. That's what you're telling me. That's, yeah. And it's working, guys. Because here we are talking about it on House of Art. We're still making sense. All right. Okay. Listen. Why are we doing Space Months? So Amanda, you said you told us you have a lot of thoughts about space movies and space in general. What are your thoughts? Well, so it's interesting to hear you guys talk about it in the lineage of sci-fi movies, which it obviously is. And also to bring up Interstellar, which- Which? Just going to get it out of the way. I'm not an Interstellar person. Okay. Love the work of Christopher Nolan. Love Inception. Like I just, I know that Interstellar- Inception rules. Is important to a younger community than myself. Because once again, I'm 41 on YouTube. But I just didn't click with it. Sure. And I have been thinking thus about the sci-fi or the space movies that I do click with. And the ones that I don't. And I think part of the reason that this works for me, and also that I would say one of the reasons that had such a sensational box office, is that it is kind of crossover sci-fi. Yeah, for sure. It is. And to put it- It's set in the near future, but it like that doesn't, this could be just science of now. Right. Or to put it in another way, it's pretty Earth-centric. Like it is set on Mars, but it's about getting back to Earth. Sure. A lot of cuts to office space at NASA. Exactly. Yeah, sure. By the way, that is not Pasadena. Wherever they filmed the Jet Propulsion Lab is somewhere with that experience is four seasons. But that's okay. Oh, interesting. Fair. The GPL looks lovely. I see a lot of people with license plates for it just around my neck of the woods. They seem lovely. So it's focused on getting back to Earth. Yes. You spend a lot of time on Earth. It is about another planet, but it's really about recreating Earth conditions on another planet. True. And there's not really a question of aliens or other galaxies or other things out there. So I mean, an alien would say this is very Earth-centric. I mean, an alien would say that alien is also a very Earth-centric term, but I realized that the space movies I love. And let me just get, like, I am Apollo 13's number one fan. I think that I have seen Apollo 13 more than any other living human besides Ron Howard and his editor. You'll be thrilled to know that Chris Ryan drafted it in the second round of the space movie draft. I know. And Chris and I... But he took in her cellar second overall. So he won you and then he lost you. Or he lost you and then he won you back. That's cowardly because I know that he loves Apollo 13 more and then her cellar was just like playing to the youth. I just can't believe he didn't take alien at number two overall. That is crazy. His favorite movie ever and he was wearing a fucking alien shirt. What do you think the first movie draft it was? In the space movie draft. In the space movie draft. Well, was Star Wars eligible or was it Empire? Sure was. Sure was. And I got Empire in the second fucking round, baby. Okay. What? Okay. So was Star Wars, it's a new hope. I'm sorry. I know that. That was taken at the end of the first round. Okay. It's pretty good. Joe had the first pick. I had the first pick. Oh, interesting. Did you take the Martian? No. Did you take... That's not the very end actually. Did you... You didn't do 2001. Yes, I did. Wow. Okay. I thought it was a great pick. Well, yeah. But I would say 2001 is more towards like high sci-fi, high... Well, space movies was just sort of encompassing like, you know, all of that. Yeah. But so when I'm trying to delineate like my kind of Earth-sick crossover... No, pole 13. I get what you're talking about. Yeah. Which again, like they're trying to get home. You're spending as much time. Are you a first man person? I do really love first man. I mean, first of all, you're just a bunch of boys. Is an eternal line and cinema that is applicable to my everyday life and yours as well. This is really the only space when we don't have to yell it unless we're talking to the control room and I don't want to, you know, essentialize everyone in the control room. But yeah. So first man, put a pole 13 and then... This is probably the least Earth-centric, but the most recent favorite space movie of mine is Arrival. It's my favorite medieval move. And I mean, that has aliens in it. They're beautiful aliens. Abed and Costello. But they come to Earth. They sure do. And also the drama and the emotion of that movie is very... Is about humans still and humanity. The other thing that those three movies have in common and I really struck home for me when I was watching The Martian, the thing that I really respond to you on all of these is that they are movie set in space. There's a lot of science. There are questions of the galaxy and existence and all this stuff, but they're basically procedural. There's a problem to solve. Yes. And they are films about competence and teamwork and problem solving and a series of problem solving. Jessica Chastain says somewhere during the climactic spacewalk thing, like, let's work the problem. And that is what everyone's doing. Let's work the problem by blowing up our own ship. Sure. But you are just watching very competent people in very high stakes just try to solve a lot of problems. And I find that that's kind of my favorite type of popcorn cinema. Watching the various space movies that we've been watching, I think that's true to a full degree of interstellar as well. But watching these movies, the way these movies celebrate science and intelligence and also emotional teamwork and stuff like that, but to prize intelligence and a specialty in a culture that feels increasingly anti-intellectual, I just really love that this is just a triumphant of we're trying to make the science comprehensible to you at home. This is Andy Weir's job and then it is Drew Goddard's job to make it even more digestible in both the Martian and Project Hail Mary. We don't want you to feel lost. We don't want you to feel left out. But we want to acknowledge that the people that we are celebrating here are people who have worked very hard to know a lot about a certain thing. So when Mark Watney is like, I'm going to science a shit out of this, you get to be like, yeah, you get so excited about that. Mallory, how does watching the Martian, I know we already know that your hype for Project Hail Mary is off the charts and has been forever. But how did watching the Martian sort of impact your feelings about Project Hail Mary? So my experience with Andy Weir's work is that the Martian film in 2015 was my first exposure to it. I had not read the Martian at that point. The first Andy Weir book I read was Project Hail Mary when it came out and I thought it was wonderful and I continue to think that. It is just an excellent book that I really love. I read the Martian after that. Can I ask some questions about as a person who's interested in books and loves both these movies but has not died out? I meant to DM you in response to, this is a sidebar, but to somebody, a recent book post. Have you read The Correspondent? No, and you know what, that was the most recommended book. I read it and like, I could not put it down. Did you cry? Wept like a fucking movie. Yeah, see this is the thing. But it's quite sad. Are you not looking to me? It's very hopeful. For everyone at home, I tried out the Instagram, like ask a question thing for the first time with book recommendations because we talk a lot about books on jam sessions. On jam session, I do still read novels. I like reading novels. Same. And it was really fun and I had like tons and tons of replies. The two most recommended were The Correspondent by Virginia Evans and Hart the Lover. Hart the Lover by Lily King. I read the previous like Lily King book in this sort of, I think, unofficial series called Writers and Lovers and wept so much that it was like, it was a problem situation. It wasn't like the end of Atonement weeping, but it was like, do we need to further investigate what's going on here? Yeah, well The Correspondent will bring that up for sure. Yeah, and so I'm not looking for that right now personally. So those were very... I'm going to follow up with you. I have a book club with my college pals about this book on Saturday. Three of the five members of that group are parents. I'm curious to see if they're like, this was actually unbearable or if they're like, this was a beautiful moving experience. But so I just wanted to ask if you can characterize the Andy Weir books in a little bit of... I'm imagining them sort of like in the Michael Crichton tradition. Yeah, I would say they're quite Crichtony. The science is even more dense than... No question. Than what Crichton does, but his narrators are so much funnier than Michael Crichton's in Michael Crichton's books. And so you're getting fed... And I am not a math and science person. You're getting fed a lot of math and science info, but like from... I mean, I listen to audiobooks and... Can you just kind of like skip over it and then read the last line where they summarize it? Kind of, but also like honestly, it's just delivered in a way that is like peppered with like self-deprecation or all these like, you know, all these sort of things that just make it much easier to get through versus like some like three body problem, which I really struggled with because of all of the dense math and science that I was just like, I'm not interested. Yeah, I think I... So a couple of my friends, I think found Project Hail Mary at the top end of their tolerance for like, do you need like a physics degree? Okay. But I would say that for most people, it is like very approachable and accessible and digestible. And I think that's one of the films undoubtedly, and I think this is one of the ways in which Drew Goddard is the perfect screenwriter for Andy Weir's text because the heart and humanity and the humor and the charm that are so essential to not only the overall kind of like tone of the Weir text, but his leading characters in particular, these like wisecracking comedians who happen to also be hot geniuses. Sign me up, honestly. No problems here. Andy Weir was like computer scientist, computer programmer. Like he's a math science guy who is also a writer. And so his knowledge of the science that he is putting into this, and I think also he's just deep in abiding passion and interest in it, really fuels a lot of the... Well, he also... Details in the story. He also crowdsourced a lot of the science for the Martian. Yes. He likes... All luxury search loves to prep. Because this is like a self-published, so he like put it up and he like asked people to like... I didn't know that until you said that. Yeah, I mean it was eventually picked up. Sure. And he was like, you know, that he put it up in chapters and had people like give him feedback. And so I love that he's just sort of like, mind the larger scientific community. Let me ask one more question. Is the science block quoted or written through? No, it's... So much like the structure of this film is largely oriented around like Mark Watney's vlogs, which is very clever of course, as a way... I mean, it works in the book quite well, but especially in the movie, like how are we going to know what's going on in this case? Mind if he's just alone farming data and stuff. So a lot of it is going to be presented in that kind of fashion. Oh, it's like a... Is it a transcript of the logs or are they written through? Are we experimenting with formatic? There's what I'm trying to ask. There's a formal variance in the Martian, for sure. I would say there's also more, without spoiling anything about the movie, a little bit more formal and structural variance in Project Hail Mary the text than is in the film in terms of like what you are learning and when and how. So, I think that's a little bit of a technical detail, but because of the, I think, very deaf and smart choices that Andy Ware has made about how to structure his narratives, the characters who could just be like a science thing. I'm also not a scientist or a mathematician. Not sure if that was clear from how I just said science thing, but it's not just like a list of lines of code when there are sections about code. So, something like the logs in this movie, the conceit behind it that Mark is leaving this chronicle to be discovered about his time here, he's talking in a way that he would have no reason to talk by himself or think even, frankly, inside of his own mind. That's not how an internal monologue works, but it is presented to us as though he's part of a conversation that will be then very accessible to us. Obviously, Project Hail Mary is quite different because of a certain tweak inside of that story, but I think that, Joe, you already mentioned the quote, but I'm going to have to science the shit out of this, is I think the mission statement that drives Andy Ware's work, right? That task-oriented nature of we have a problem to solve, and it is a pressing one. One of the things that I love to your question about just how do we find the Martian now that we're in the Project Hail Mary moment, they have a lot of shared strands of DNA, but I think they are actually inversions of each other and a fascinating way to consider them together. I should say, I love Andy Ware, so I feel like Dick Head is saying this. I have not read Artemis. He has a third book, which I have not read, and I would like to check out. My nephew read it, and when I told him what Andy Ware said about how he relates to Artemis, my nephew had a lot of thoughts about it, which I'll share with you. Interesting. I'm looking forward to it. I mean, Andy Ware is like, people will hear him say this on our interview, say, I've heard him say this, for he's very self-deprecating about the like, and Andy Ware's other book. So I can't comment on like how much that third point on the textual triangle impacts the statement, but the Martian is very much the entire world, right? Inside of NASA, the crew on the Hermes, other nations as you already alluded to, the entire world, we're gathering in Times Square, we're in Trafalgar Square, every single person alive. It cares about one man. Projects-Helmerry is the opposite of that. Now, there is a global circumstance, right, that the film orients around, but it is very much one person has to figure out how to save the world. So I think that's fascinating because to me, they're both really interesting stories, but Projects-Helmerry unlocked a different degree of impact. I don't know how much of it has to do with that shift in what's the calculus of who cares about whom and who's trying to save whom and how much of it is simply that Rocky is, I think, one of the great creations in the history of fiction and given how they've marketed the movie and trailers, I don't mind saying that before. I know we used to hide it, but now Rocky's on the poster. He's in the Lego set. He's everywhere. I ordered that Lego set, by the way. Don't send it to my house. We've already, so the plan here today. How many pieces do you think it takes to make Rocky? 85? He's pretty small. He's like a tiny little- That doesn't matter. Do you understand? I did listen to the discussion you guys had on the broad about the Lego pieces that were given to Knox being a- The Mandalorian- At-ject risk for Psy. The Mandalorian is one and a half inches tall. And what's his stick called? Are you talking about the Darksaber? I don't know, Mallory. Did you get a Lego with the Darksaber? That's awesome. I'm sure it's the Darksaber. The Darksaber is four different pieces. He's talking about his Bascar Spear. The Bascar Spear is one of them. I mean, either way, a Lego, I haven't either of those. It's fucking awesome. I can't believe I don't have this. Either way, it's an inch and a half. And then the stick that goes with it is in multiple pieces. I mean, that's the fun of a Lego. My older child is four years old. What are we doing here? It sounds like you're having a great time building a Lego set. Yes, pieces were gone before we got them out of the box. Okay, here's the deal. This is going to be a chaotic podcast and we know that. Yeah. And it's built into the design of what we're doing here today. We've already sort of bled into some of our questions, but it doesn't matter. We're allegedly asking 21 questions that have something to do with a Martian and then don't. Okay. And that's what we're doing here today. Tier one, we're calling a mostly responsible discussion. That is what we're calling tier one. And we're starting with how do we find this movie in 2015 versus how do we find it now? And so I will just start and say, I watched Project Hail Mary. Like we got to go see an advanced screening Project Hail Mary. I watched it, then I watched the Martian and I have since seen Project Hail Mary again. And then I watched the Martian again. So that's been my sort of like ping ponging back and forth. And when I rewatched the Martian, having loved it in 2015, I still really like it. But I think Project Hail Mary is an even better version of a similar story. And so it slightly dims in comparison. I also think that there were some things going on in 2015, not just like who we are as a people and how we felt, but also like thinking about, there was something about like being a Ridley Scott fan and having to live through an era of Ridley Scott where you have Robin Hood, Prometheus, the counselor, Exodus, God's and Kings. Excuse me, excuse me, Prometheus, Prometheus, and counselor. No, I like Prometheus. All the timers. Counselor. Listen, sometimes you got to have fun. Okay. Right? Sometimes you got to show up to work and you got to say, why not? What you can't do is defend Exodus, God's and Kings. No, absolutely not. And so there were some of us out there in the world who were wondering, will Ridley Scott ever make a tremendously great film again? Right. And then he made the Martian. And it ruled. Yes. And similarly, like Matt Damon wasn't in like a huge career slump, but it wasn't like, you know, we had some adjustment bureau, we had some, we bought a zoo. Yeah. The adjustment bureau is the hats. Yes. The counselor is that, that's when Cameron Diaz fucks the car. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I saw that in theaters. Had a great time. Damon absolutely crushed behind the candle, Laura, I should say, absolutely loved that from him. But then Elysium happened, the monuments men happened. Interstellar shows up. The monument's men is not his fault. It's fine. Everyone's aggressively fine. It's not even aggressively fine. It's quite bad. No, but like. And also. I'm not blaming him for all of this. I'm just saying we, what we saw a bunch of Damon things. The monuments men, I would like a do over basically with someone from besides George Clinton, because that is that premise and even that cast seems like it's the perfect Amanda dad movie. And it really is. That's the problem is like we were all very quite excited for the monuments men. And then it was what it was. He does interstellar shows pops up surprise interstellar. MVP. We're delighted. Not MVP, but that's stretching movie is my favorite. But great. And then just the Martian. We're like, holy shit. Yeah. It's Matt Damon movie star. It's Ridley Scott, incredible director. It's like a fun, fine time at the movies. And then he does Jason Bourne. Don't worry about it. But like, I think we were all just really excited to have a movie that felt like a huge movie from two people who had had some ups and downs, let's say, generously of late in their career. And that's part of, I think, what drove the excitement. It's also just like a very fun, enjoyable movie. Project Hail Mary without getting into details, just like pierces deeper into emotions. I think Ryan Gosling as like a comedian is a better fit than Matt Damon and all this sort of stuff like that. So like it pales a bit in comparison. But of course the Martian is still, I just didn't love it as much as I remembered that I loved it, if that makes sense. What did you think? Yeah, I think I agree. I have only seen Project Hail Mary the once and so I've seen the Martian more recently, but I remember seeing it in theaters and being completely delighted. Not just because of what you said of Ridley Scott back in form, Matt Damon back in form, but even in 2015 movie wise, we were heavy in Marvel Land. We were heavy in franchise and IP land. And so this, not original, but like this classical Hollywood structure of book turned into movie starring movie star made by veteran director, like big template, big production brings everyone in. And it was kind of like the four quadrant, sorry to use an industry term, but everybody like everybody went and liked this movie. Yeah. You know, my sister-in-law was telling me last night that the first time she met. My beloved Ruthie? Ruthie's in town. Shout out Ruthie Barron. Shout out Ruthie. I fucking love her. And Ruthie Barron said that the first time she met my dad was in 2015. Knox? Knox, big Knox, as he's known now. And this is Mallory's favorite game. I can name all these people. Quick, mention your sister. I'll say her name. I have a sister. Yeah. But Ruthie, my sister-in-law recommended the Martian to my dad at that meeting. And then my dad emailed, like he said, emailed me the next day. He was like, tell Ruthie the Martian exclamation point. Amazing exclamation point. You know, and so this can bring perspective family members together. It bridges everyone. And that felt like such a release. And that is something that we get less and less of for a number of Hollywood reasons. So I loved it. I remember watching it. I had some casting notes at the moment at the time after seeing it. Still do? They hold. And I did also, you know, you watch it at home. And so the runtime like flashes up and I 223 minutes and I was like Ridley now. And it does lag a little. And I think that I, it doesn't like, it doesn't because there are so many exciting set pieces. And I was stressed throughout the rewatch. But I also felt the bagginess a little bit. I think it felt lean because we had just watched Interstellar, which is two hours and 49 minutes. I did watch the extended two and a half hour version. It's, I mean, I think that this is the length for space movies kind of like some of them are shorter, but a lot of space movies are going to be two and a half hours, you know, they're long. I'm seeing right now that my beloved Apollo 13 is an hour and 40 minutes. Well, different era. Maybe some of it is different. No, no, no, I'm sorry. 140 minutes. Oh, yeah, yeah. So listen, I guess I just felt the bagginess. And then I agree with you that I remembered Matt Damon being funnier. And even this is like, feels different. I think this is a funny format Damon performance. But then we've since seen him do like with, with love and respect, apologies, like his Marvel cameos, which are like even a different, no, they're really funny. Like I think comedy Matt Damon, even though again in behind the kind of lover he was doing a lot, and it was quite fun, but like comedy Matt Damon was not something we were like super used to. And then he did this, but I think he's since done even funnier things. And it's also a tone of humor that I remembered differently. So some of it was funny. I found myself more affected by his emotional like the, the, the, the capillae acting that Matt Damon does. And just the holding the screen. Yeah, yeah. Mal, how did you feel 2015 compared to now? Yeah, I remember really loving this movie when I saw it. And I think like to the Damon point, but also kind of the, this is a movie for everyone point and like people were buzzing and people were going to the movies. Something that I remember quite vividly that I think is a lasting aspect of the film, but is different once you've seen it to two parts of this one. Everybody talking about it like wait until you see Matt Damon's one man show. That's actually not what the movie is. And I think that there was a like a narrate animating narrative aspect of discussing the film for completely valid and justified reasons as this like not only really excellent performance where he is alone on Mars farming potatoes in his own shit. Oh my God, this, this idea to use the video logs so that he has a reason to talk. This is like, I remember people discussing this as such a creative way to present a story to us and a vehicle then for him to kind of do all these interesting things and really carry the film in a solitary fashion. Right. This is actually a fucking gigantic ensemble cast. I would say there are way too many people in the movie. I also feel that way about the book when you get to the NASA stretches and it's like, who are you cutting? You can get one person from this movie. Kristen Wiig out. Annie, but yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I understand the reason. I understand the reason to have the character like comms concern. Miss cast the humor does not translate. I really agree. Disaster in the moment. Disaster now it's nobody's fault. Kristen Wiig is very, very, very funny. But I think also that casting is indicative of like why I bump on the humor in this movie a little bit. I'm like, if you don't get the tone quite right or you're playing it slightly differently, it doesn't. Yeah, you want. Yeah. I mean, we have a lot of I'm the boss, but of this department, like we've got Vincent, we have Mitch. I would argue with love to Sean Bean, who's one of my favorites that he is quite Miss Castus as Mitch. And I think it's just very odd though, obviously wonderful to get the Lord of the Rings jokes. I don't like the mirror. Too much to win. I just think it like takes you out. It's just sort of like we all know that Sean Bean was asked for a show. You know, the Hermes crew. Oh, you Google. Yeah. And once they started doing like the I mean, they acknowledge it in the movie. Who is Sean Bean in Lord of the Rings? Who's that? He's a guy. He dies. The first man of God. No God. Man of God. Man of God. I just learned one of the members of the original fellowship. The tree people. Yeah. The ends. Okay. Just learned about the end. I just mean Lord of the Rings. I would like to know my first second. I think like that animated a lot of the interest and then excitement and appreciation in real time. Once you kind of know how often the movie is going back to either the Hermes though, frankly, I wish we got like maybe a touch more time on the Hermes with that crew than we get because I'm kind of like Sebastian Stan has four lines in this movie. What the fuck? I could do it to touch less NASA bureaucracy, but that is what it is. I think the other thing is that there's just a lot of effective tension and anxiety when you're watching the movie for the first time. Because you don't know what's going to fucking happen. And it's like a really incredible experience. I had questions about the rewatchability of this movie. When you know, then it is much more about, I don't think when you watch it the first time you feel the length at all because every minute is a minute of agony. It's another soul. I'm not saying it's not. I think you're right about that. And again, even in rewatch, I found the various sepises incredibly stressful. I think that you do know the whole time that he's going to be okay. Yeah, because you're watching a movie with like starting Matt Damon. But you're like, what will he suffer along the way? How will he? I mean, I honestly think when you're watching, how scale to what he get on the potato diet? We're going to get to that. We got to see a stunt tush though. Yeah, we did. I don't think it's not, I don't think it's unrewatchable. I just don't think it's a movie that people are going to be like, let's put the Martian on. I don't know. I find people solving problems to be so soothing. There's something very comforting about this movie in the nine like, you know, sandstorm moments of just watching people be like, okay, let's work the problem. Let's do this. I like to know that everything's going to be okay. I like a resolution. I mean, how about some darkensanddimal.com if the Martian is like a huge rewatchable in your house? I'm just curious about that. If that like, because it's a movie that I think everyone has like fond feelings for. Yes, there's a lot of appreciation. But maybe doesn't like reach for. Do you know what I mean? All right. How does this help us prepare for Project Hail Mary? I don't think it's obviously not required viewing to enjoy Project Hail Mary. I think to a lot of the points that Mallory has brought up about the way in which they solve an internal monologue problem in this movie is also used in Project Hail Mary. I think getting that, I just think it helps me appreciate Project Hail Mary even more because I think those like weird little fumbles in tone with like your Kristen Wigs or your Michael Pena's or, you know, here and there. Yeah. Is to me does not present as a problem in Project Hail Mary. And so which you. Yeah, no, it helped me. It was really interesting to rewatch it after having seen Project Hail Mary. Because as I said, I haven't read the Andy Weir books. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I see. I understand the tone of both now a little more. This is a thing. This is why you're doing this. And there are moments in Project Hail Mary where I was like, OK, but I'm laughing, but why am I laughing at this at this moment? Why are we this this joke about it? I'm like, I'm fucking heaven. This is great. I'll be curious. I'm going to see it again. Now that I know that and now that I have a little more context for like the type of project that I'm under, you know, going into, I wonder how it'll play. How do you feel, Mami? Yeah, I think that understanding Weir's tone and the things he likes to explore and how both through like a central protagonist, you know, these stories about humanity and why people do what they do or fight for what they fight for or afraid of what they're afraid of through the perspective of like a singularly gifted and capable person is interesting to me. I think that there are different stories, but like stories between in the sense that they are, I don't know, both about I really don't want to spoil anything about Project Hail Mary, but it's right there in the title. Why do we call it a Hail Mary? Right? There's a desperate element behind both of these stories. Like a desire to study and assess the capacity, the human capacity for preservation, right? What will people do to try to save themselves or each other? And I think that's fascinating. And I think that that could be so bleak as just a subject matter. And the fact that Andy Weir can like, I think frankly, if you want to come to the stories this way, you can, you don't have to teach you something. Like you can learn something when you're reading his books about how science works. I did try to do that a little bit with both the Martian and Project Hail Mary and then realized I was at my capacity. Yeah. My max pretty quickly. Not for what I'm interested in, but for what I have any faith that I could possibly learn at this point in my life with my adult mind. But like, you know, what will people do? I think both stories are interesting in that and how do they form relationships to each other? And what does that commitment then do? You know, like the fact that the, the Hermes, I like the moments in this movie where the crew learns that Mark is alive and the, the fact that it's not a celebration. Oh my God, this guy we love is alive. It's just despair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they have to confront the fact that they left him. And like, I think aspects of the story like that are just really interesting to me as studies in human nature inside of very hard sci-fi, math, science, physics, astrophysics movies. I think it was really interesting when Amanda was delineating between like an Earth, what you consider like an Earth centric space movie versus not. And I think there's, there's this other subgenre of like the Earth is in terrible trouble and only by this pursuit into space can we, you know, in sunshine or in interstellar, like find an answer that will help all of Earth, et cetera. And that's where Project Hail Mary belongs. But I think both the stories dive into this idea that we have been talking about a lot on this podcast, this idea of like who is an us inside of a story. We talked about a lot in literally a TV show, The Last of Us, but it's like, who is your community? Like for the Hermes, like Mark is one of their crew. For the world, Mark is a human out there on a planet and we care about him coming home. Like I have some questions about that, about how much like the world would care about an American astronaut on Mars. But like that's the world, the movie and the story exists in that like, we would care about our crewmate and we would care about a human being out there in the world because it's part of who we are, we define as us. Yes. I think there's that moment in the movie where Teddy, not my favorite character, I do get kicked out of Rich Brun donalgull, Rich being like, who are you again? And he's like, I'm the director of NASA. Jeff Daniels character. This isn't, is the newsroom still on the air when this was released in theaters? I think so. It wasn't over by 2015. The newsroom American drama series. Let's see. 2014 is where it ends. But so we're just, we're hot off. Yes. Well, it's, it's extra enjoyable that when he's like studying his own press conference tape in this movie, it's a nice bit of connective tissue there. But like, I'm paraphrasing is I don't have this line written down, but basically when he's like, every time something goes wrong, people forget why we fly, right? And that to your point, that aspect of that is different in the Martian and Project Hail Mary, the nature of the task. But I like that moment when Mark, when Watney asks Lewis, like if I die, I, like, I know it's a big thing to ask, which is why I'm asking you, but can you go like talk to my parents? And he says, I'm dying for something big and beautiful and greater than me. Tell them I said I can live with that. So that is tapping into an almost existential aspect of like flight and like tracing back. You know, we were just talking briefly on the, the spacecraft because perhaps controversially the right stuff was not selected in the spacecraft. Maybe that was not a surprise. I was a little surprised, but you know, having just revisited that. Sam Shepherd disrespect right there. We did celebrate. We did celebrate Sam Shepherd. We did celebrate Sam Shepherd. I promise you. Despite the movie not being drafted, we made time. I promise. We did talk about Chuck Gager. We just started Sam Shepherd podcast. I signed us up at any point. You don't even need to ask when just assume we're available. I think I suggested Sam Shepherd as like a recasting on, I think it was, it's complicated to rewatchables and Bill was like, you have to stop bringing up Sam Shepherd. Sam Shepherd cannot be the answer to every time you want to recast. God damn it. Yes, he can. But like it was interesting to rewatch that and really just luxuriate for three hours and 13 minutes famously in that question of like what drives people to do this thing and then what does it represent to people who will never come close to touching anything like that, right? And so I think the Martian, even though it is a like disaster survival story gets at that larger idea of like, why do people care about this thing? It's because it represents something seismic about, and this is interesting. I think actually with your framing of what you like about space movies like coming home, getting back, Earth centric, because obviously a lot of like space fiction as a genre is about pushing to explore the unknown and always going to the brink of just beyond what we were able to see. So I think the achievement of the Martian in particular is that it has moments for that existential or that contemplative aspect of it, but it is also, that's definitely not the essential nature of it, which is about solving a bunch of problems in order to get home. And so if you come for the more science or even just the almost episodic nature of the like, okay, now we got to fix the Mars rover. Now we got to figure out how to make water. Now we got to fit that. I switched the order on that. Please don't DM me. But you can watch just like the science experiments in the lab. But if you also want to have those moments of him writing the just contrasting character or for me the wordless scene when he's about to, like the climactic scene is about to take off. Yes. Really good. I mean he's just crying. Really good. And if nothing is written, nothing is said and Damon is communicating everything that is going on that would go on. It's amazing. I think the movie excels in that respect. There are smaller non Mark Watney versions of that too. Like the Michael Pena character, the Martinez character when he's like reaching out to his little son telling his wife and kid that he's sorry, I just signed up at 500 plus more days of this and just that little moment where I like that one. Can I tell you how that's undercut by the fact that he's on another space mission by the end of the movie? I just like right back on the ship. He does get back. He's addicted to it. I'm kind of like now I don't really know how I know I understand as I understand it. It's hard to become an astronaut. Wouldn't someone else like be like, fuck this. This is my it's my chance. That's my seat. You've already been. I know Aries three got cut short, but like come on dude. Write that movie. The Game of Thrones politics of NASA. Who seat did Martinez take when he got to go back five years later? I'm going to let you know that is a subplot in Apollo 13 who gets to be on the ship and who's not and why. That's true. I also think then like we talked about this with interstellar, the shifting attitudes around NASA. Yeah. In the U.S. this idea of like when the moon landing happened or even when like the Mars rover happened or whatever. This is like, yes, of course. If I mean it did happen. It did Stanley Kubrick directed or not is a question, but like, but like when we think about how what the national, I won't speak to international, what the national attitude was towards space exploration and how it felt like a good and right thing to do. And part of that was like. Nationalistic propaganda, but the other part of it was just sort of like this excitement of like we should explore. We should figure out like we should be first, but also like we should explore. We must be Russia. Yeah, but we should figure it out and it's exciting to do so and it's important and it matters. And I feel like now, and we talked about this on interstellar as the billionaires like have taken over appropriated space travel. You know, and when I feel like when I talk to people about it, they're like, why should we fund NASA? Why should that be something that like our tax dollars do because like who cares about space? We have problems here. Yes, we do. Absolutely. That's true. But like that's why we got to look out there, folks. We got to find our next home. Scientific curiosity matters, you know, and don't just let the billionaires be the one who know, you know, 90 degrees here. We got to find another planet. Okay. I think we've already covered this a bit like why does Andy Weir's work led itself to cinematic treatments, but anything else you want to add to that we haven't already? Yeah, and what we've already hit. I mean, I guess the most obvious one space to quote Chris Ryan from the space draft space looks fucking cool. Yeah. You know, Mars looks really cool. Really cool. I told Joe this already. I will say watching the 4K. I know Sean's not here, but I'll bring a little bit of the physical media boy energy. No, but this is like your, this is a new thing and it is very Adam centric. I know, but it's like, I'm not like, well, I did watch this on 4K. Adam has been since the moment I met him. I will never forget going to his apartment for the first time. This was back in the New York days and his entire like entryway was just DVDs. So this is a lifelong thing for him. Okay. Where are the DVDs now that the blue rays and the 4Ks? The DVDs, the DVDs, the 4K, almost the entire display case is 4Ks now. And even that there's like, there are like 10 piles on the couch right next to it. We're really out of space. We've been discussing what to do about it. I'm also out of space for my books. It's become a bit of a, we got to figure out some new shelving. He's got all the 4Ks and blue rays still out. The DVDs are in like a cabinet because there's no room on the shelves. He hasn't traded them in. No, he has them all. He's building his own library of Alexandria. Exactly. That's exactly right. The 4K, something about, I can't remember if I felt this way about the movie in real time in the theaters, but something about those initial like sweeping pans of Mars really like looked weird to me and made my brain. Oh, I had to check if I had the motions moving on. Yeah. Which like, I never would. I mean, I was like, are some things fucked up? Yeah. And this is, I mean, this was 2015. Other than that, it was great though. I mean, if you go back and you watch Gladiator, another Ridley Scott film that won Best Picture. Like those ruins, or I guess they're not ruins, like all of those palaces, Rome as it exists in Gladiator is like my son drew it on his iPad. It looks quite bad now. And some of it is just technology and where we are with effects. The wheat looks beautiful though. The wheat looks beautiful. Sure. Yeah. And everyone in the wheat looks good. But I think the Martian overall looks really good. So I think the skyscrapes look really beautiful. It's just the opening. There's something about that opening few minutes and I'm like, what has gone wrong? What has gone wrong here? But in general, there's something about like, you know, that like Texas, like hook on long horns, burnt orange, just like that. Right. It looks really cool. Yes. Project Hail Mary looks fucking amazing and can't wait for everyone to get to see it. As I understood it, like they filmed, a lot of this is done on green screens. They didn't use a vomit comet. They're on wires that you then, that they like then CGI'd out. And I mean, you can watch behind the scenes footage on the internet of like everyone kind of floating around. And then they did film the exteriors or at least like the exteriors that they then used it behind the green screen footage in Jordan and a very famous part of Jordan that's been in a lot of films. So all of these things, if they're not real together or at least based on real things, you know, and the other nice thing about space movies is that, because it's such a limited physical environment, like they built the hab, they built all of these differences. They grew the potato plants. So even though there are a lot of effects, they're still filming real built things. No, it's quite grounded. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Which is helpful. On the Drew Goddard front, this is like, we want to talk about Drew Goddard a bit because he, so he is the screenwriter on the Martian as well as Project Hail Mary. Again, we chatted to Andy Weir about like why Drew is the guy and you can hear him talk about that in our Project Hail Mary episode. But Drew, who has this background, has been attached to like almost everything that's ever been important to me, including like Lost, Buffy Vampireslayer, Alias, The Good Place, Angel, Cloverfield, Cabin in the Woods, World War Z, not so much bad times at the El Royale, and like was an initial part of the Daredevil launch. And so like, which Daredevil? Ben Affleck Daredevil? No, the Netflix Daredevil. Okay. Initially involved not like the... Less interested. Classic UT. Classic UT. You should be interested in Charlie Cox. I think you should be very interested in Charlie Cox. I do think also, does Daredevil show up in the Spider-Man movie where they all pointed at each other? Yeah, he's the lawyer, Matt Murdock. Famously, Sean and I talked about this before talking about the three Spider-Man's on Big Pick and you were like, you guys have lost your fucking mind. And you did also turn to me in the screening and you both leaned over and you were like, that's Matt Murdock. And I was like, I don't know who that is. No, you're missing out. Okay. Is that a different Matt Murdock than the Matt Murdock that Drew Goddard? Like... No, same one. No, same Matt Murdock. Oh, okay, great. Netflix Daredevil in an MCU movie. In a Marvel movie. I know exactly. I don't want to know about... Now he's on Disney Plus. No legal processes. Now he's on Disney Plus. So, what's the thing about Department of Damage Control? Is that like what you're excited about in that Spider-Man movie? I don't... which part was that? Don't worry about it. I liked it when Andrew Garfield saved Zendaya. Yeah. Zendaya, I can't remember. I liked it when they pointed at each other. I really liked that movie. Spider-Man is great for each other. I'm always... I love Spider-Man movies. Spider-Man, I get it. I don't like the Jake J. LaHalle Drones one. It's... You don't. Far from home? Of the three that we have so far, it's third on the list. Not for me. But it's still very good. I'm coming. You're a pro-Venice. You love it. You love it. They go to Venice in that one? Yeah, they start... They go to Venice, they go to Fog. We're honestly... We're really venturing into going with Paltrow. Like I was in that. No, I was in Avengers territory with me. I've seen all of them, but at this point, I can't differentiate. Fair enough. Fair enough. There's a great long, long interview with Drew Goddard that Adam Barry did on Buzzfeed when this movie came out where he talks about sort of his process. And there's a couple things that he really nailed. One is he talks about constantly calling Andy Weir. And Andy Weir was not a producer on The Martian. So, like, he didn't have to call Andy Weir, but he was just constantly like checking in with him. And there's just like a respect for the author that I love about Drew Goddard. But also he was talking about how he wanted to tweak something to make it sort of a little bit more movie-friendly and that Andy Weir lectured him at length about how an astronaut would never say that. And he put that lecture kind of in the movie. Just sort of like he thought it was so funny that Andy Weir was sort of affronted about his trying to shortcut science that he put it back in the movie. So I wanted to share this story with George R. R. Martin and Ryan Condol. Let's see if it's helpful. Oh, yeah, they're beefing up. Let's see if it's helpful. I just read the headlines, you know, and I'm just like, oh, that seems not good. It seems like they're not friends. It's not great. It's not great. I don't know whose show it's. Whose anymore? He talked a lot about how he spent very long time in the outline before he like actually wrote the thing, which is something that he got from Joss Whedon, a problematic person, but also Drew Goddard, a lot of what he knows about how to write a script and how it clearly breaks into a three-act structure. And, you know, it gave him some guiding posts on how to put this all together. But I think just like how he's able to simplify the science, not just with the like very stranger things, final season, as like we take a stapler and we show you with the pepper pot how we're going to do the thing. Yeah. Which they did at Nauseam in Stranger Things. Do they use an actual stapler? In this movie. In this movie. I don't think so. No, I know the user uses stapler. Stranger Things. In a Polluter Team they do it. There's a slinky. There's a slinky. Famous in season one. There's a smack food. A pencil through the paper plate is trying to classify. I'm going to use Nellie. Thumbs up, thumbs down from you guys. We thought that the epilogue got up. No, it's 40 minutes. Okay. Very emotional. Did it turn out well or not well? No, I don't think it turned out well. Okay. Like for the characters? Are they fulfilled? I choose to believe. Yeah, I choose to believe. To quote the story. So I just think that like. Because this is a good idea for a show where I just come in and lightening around like good bath. Yes. Yes. No. I would watch. It's on our facial expressions. You decide whether or not this is something that worked out. Yeah, I just, I think the like the, the Joss pattern that he uses and, and all of that is works so beautifully in, in these movies. It's like a perfect person to distill this. I, yeah, it's a beautiful partnership that I hope continues. I think it's really fun that we've gotten different directors, Ridley Scott and Lord and Miller. Like that's awesome. And obviously Lord and Miller as we'll talk about when we all cover their projects. So Mary hard to think of directors more suited to adapting that particular story. It's just perfect. But Goddard is like a through line of adapting. Weir's work is, is really awesome. And I think that that passion that you're identifying in that like since like a desire to do right by the story that you're identifying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was interesting. Like we went to, we were at Comic Con in the summer and we went to the project. We went to the Project Hail Mary panel and Drew Goddard was one of the panelists and he, he was, I thought so palpably emotional talking about why he loves the characters and the story. Like it was really moving and beautiful and lovely. And, you know, I think that we talk about this a lot across the various things that we cover. I think that the nature, because adaptations always have tweaks. They have to. And like we, when we love a text and we are really partial to a text, you like, you know, I am guilty of this a lot. I want the adaptation to be as faithful as possible. And I think these are very faithful adaptations that also make smart choices. One thing that was interesting about going back to the Martian, because again, I saw it before I had read it. Now I'm like, huh, some of the things that didn't make it into the film from the book. I don't, I don't totally know why just because they're so cinematic, like the rover crash on that final drive. I understand cutting something like the additional like lost communication because Mark Fryce is tech and stuff that might have felt like one too many. Here's a setback and I now have to figure out how to move forward. But like the rover, just another storm coming and the rover crashing. When you're reading that in the novel, I'm like, I, you can, this is a movie scene. So that's a little bit puzzling to me, but in terms of that's not, I don't think a Goddard choice. That's probably just how much time do we have and how many big set pieces are we doing. So yeah, I think his ability to like capture the charm, the humor, the emotion and the smarts, you've got to be able to hit all of those elements if you're adapting. We are. And I think Goddard does it really wonderfully and, and, you know, he's for the Mart, for Project Hail Mary and both. It's incredible screenwriting and I can't speak as much to the adaptation because I haven't read the books, but what I see on the screen are incredibly complex, recreated like scientific worlds that boil down to something that anyone can understand. It has got to get home. Or even Project Hail Mary, am I allowed to spoil like the problem? Is it in the trailer? I stopped watching the trailers at some point, but it's a very, it's a very complex thing, but the basic version of it is like, we got to save this thing. Like this thing is no longer working. We have to save it. Anyone can understand it. It's like being explained to children at the beginning, which was like a little on the nose for me, but, you know, as is Mark Watney at the end. So that's right. But it's, it's really, it is masterful to be able to boil down not just like this, this science, but these plots and the stories into something that are so high stakes and so complicated and yet so baseline simple. They get to the essential nature of a story in a way that appeals to everybody. Yeah, like to that end, I mean, my next question is like this movie was nominated for seven Oscars, which is, wow, this is the spotlight year, which we talked about very recently on the big pick, the Revenant year. It was nominated for Best Picture, Best Actor, Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Production Design, Best Sound Editing, Best Sound Mixing and Best Visual Effects. Shout out the days when there were two sound categories. If you could give it one, what would you give it? If I give it Adapted Screenplay, which is what I remember the time there was a thought that it would win, potentially would win that. The big short one, and that's tough because the big short is also like a really, really great job of boiling down hard concepts into a fun digestible delivery. There's still not my favorite adaptation of the Michael Lewis book, which is, of course, my ball. Moneyball. Thank you so much forever. Naturally. Yeah, I too, I think would go with writing because it was nominated in Best Picture. But Spotlight won. I think Spotlight is an incredible movie. This otherwise is like sort of a tough year to be at a one for actor, which is good and you want but he wins for the Revenant, which is make up. I don't really care for the Revenant. Rih-Larsen in Room, Mark Rylance in Bridge of Spies, who's a wonderful actor and I like that movie. No, Mark Rylance should have an Oscar. It shouldn't be for Bridge of Spies. Right. Alicia Vikander won an Oscar for the Danish Girl, but actually it was for Ex Machina. They just did not want to nominate her for Ex Machina. No, I mean, like Damon was the only, I mean, you could give them, you could give an Oscar in any category. I'm just saying like Damon's not beating DeCaprio on his year where he's just like, you know, dancing on Ellen or doing whatever he needs to do to get that Oscar. He didn't actually dance on Ellen. No, but he told a hilarious, like a hilarious anecdote on Ellen. Okay. And I was like, oh, Leo's trying. Leo's running. You know what I mean? Like I think he did accent work as far as I remember. So sound editing, sound mixing and production design all went to Fury Road. No quibbles. That makes sense. That makes sense. I think. And I know that you give Fury Road best picture instead. I do. And I think that's really valid. And I think that's really valid. Visual effects, Ex Machina, not Fury Road or the Martian. But that Ex Machina visual effect is the whole movie. Yeah. That's a fascinating one. I think it's of these options, screenplay. Yeah. Makes the most sense. We're agreed for sure. Congratulations, Drew Goddard. Drew Goddard, you now have an Oscar. You're welcome. You're welcome. I think I'll be onto the thing you identified as really crucial because there's enough science still to not, I think to not leave the door open for like, boy, this was really like dumbed down and sapped of its sci-fi essence. Like we get. I think it's more elegant with love and respect to the big short than Margot Robbie and a bathtub. Do you know what I mean? Like. There's a no. There's a no. There's still expository and people are explaining things to each other and that's to the audience. You can kind of like see, but it's elegant and they say a lot of words. And the moments that we get into some more detailed formulas or like, you know, vectors and atmosphere and stuff like that, it's because it really matters. Are they going to be at the, not only the right position, but the right velocity to get Mark now that they've made this choice to go there. They do, but it's very clever even in the science that uses because they build the major set pieces around things you can understand like velocity. I didn't take AP physics, but I do remember velocity, right? And also, or like Mark being like, this is how I'm going to make water. And this is what I, like, do you need to totally understand that he forgot to count for like what he was exhaling and why that would matter? No, it's just like he is flexing because he's exactly. And it's very accessible whether or not you're a chemist or a botanist. But also if you didn't take chemistry, like if you making water, you're like, I need water to grow food. Right. If you, if you sat through any science class at some point, it's at least like wringing a bell. So it's not totally. You don't need to track the minutes it takes for the messages. You just need to know mission control can't help. Right. Right. So it's, yeah, it's, it's, and there's way more science in the books than in the films. Oh, five of them's more. Yeah. Was Matt Damon the right guy to play Mark Watney? I think he's a great as what I think he's great as what he is. There anyone else in 2015 that you would put in that role? I just think Gosling is a slightly better fit for this tone. Gosling is 15 Gosling, but I'm just like here, you know, I'm, I'm looking here at the top 10. So Star Wars, the Force Awakens. So Harrison Ford too old, but I would have enjoyed whatever. Not for me. I would enjoy that. Yeah. That would be charming. That would be good. Adam is Adam Driver and Force Awakens or does he? Yeah. As is Oscar Isaac. Okay. And I remember that he's the pilot, but he doesn't have that much to do and. Poe Dameron. Not in there. Not in that one. Listen, we were talking about the chromatic scene in Force Awakens. Sean and I were the other day when Ray gets the lightsaber instead of. John Boyega's character Finn. Yeah. Finn, thank you. And I'll never forget that. Like you can. That's just amazing. I have like a lot to say about three movies that I like barely understood, you know, overseen by JJ Abrams. But that moment and the way they do it and it's, and the way they bring a girl Jedi into it, which is not like in a girl bossy way. It's just that the lightsaber goes, her is amazing. And I'll never forget seeing that. I did forget everyone else in the movie, but that's okay. Okay. So I mean, she could know she's too young. Kylo Ren Slander here. Oh, he's really good. But I remember him shirtless in the next one in the red room. He's quite helmeted in this one. True. Okay. Oh, but then they have, isn't that when spoiler alert for Forks Awakens, I guess, Harrison Ford, when Han Solo like comes back and there are all those waves and then he's, that's a third one. Yeah. Okay. All right. That was a really bad movie. But that movie had Bob Ufric, whose name I finally learned. Yeah. I like Bob Ufric. I mean, it's an in-zellin moment for you and Knox. Okay. I'm sticking with Damon as Watney. Chris Pratt, no, I don't remember anyone in Avengers. I don't think anyone in Avengers could do this. No one in the Fast and Furious movies is jumping out to me. The Martian, a Daniel Spector, Daniel Craig, no. I was just looking at the people in the top movies. I'm sticking with Damon. I think Ben Affleck could be good. Okay. You're going Affleck, you're going Damon. I was just like, well, we're here. Let's put it in the top. I mean, I'm correcting the record, which is like when we talked about recasting or when we talked about casting a role in Interstellar and Hathaway's Wolf himself. A lot of our listeners are like, you should have done Oscar Isaac. And I like really agree with that, who would look hot and bearded, stranded on a planet somewhere. Oscar Isaac. Fantastic. Yeah. It's very funny. But I mean, Damon's great. Here's my next question. This might seem rude, but I just really love her and I support her. What's happened to Jessica Chastain's career and how do we fix it? She has an Oscar, so she's doing fine, right? She has an Oscar for her. It's not the worst. No, it's not. It's the worst project. Have you seen the good nurse? Yes. I actually did want to know what happens in the good nurse, so I shouldn't totally neg it. But let's see. It's been a really interesting few years for Jessica Chastain, who does have an Oscar. Like between Interstellar and the Martian, like Zero Dark Thirty came just before it. And then she did it chapter two, which should have been better than it was, but that's not her fault. But then like there's a line in her Wikipedia, Wikipedia, the greatest source of all time. It says, Chastain received further acclaim for playing strong-willed women in the dramas and then just like lists a bunch of, you know, and it's just like, that's not what I think Jessica Chastain should be like one of our biggest movie stars. So the good nurse, then she did George and Tammy, which I never watched, which was a TV show. The Tammy Wynette thing. Yes. And then memory didn't see it. Mother's instinct didn't see it. Dreams, Mother's instinct. These are three films that were like completely, completely dumped. I'm not aware. I wasn't aware she's doing a podcast series called The Space Within, which I guess is scripted. Oh, my dear. This is grim. I haven't seen anything that she has been in since the good nurse in 2022. So how do we, how do we fix that? I mean, I know she's doing a lot of stage work, which she likes doing and that's great. I'm just saying like, oh yeah, scenes from a marriage. I mean, scenes from a marriage. That was great. Yes. Thank you, Oscar Isaac and Jessica Chastain. There you go. That was wonderful. Yeah. And there's, there's the, her killed Apple TV plus show. You know, right. But I just think that she should be like, did we know that she's doing, well, did we know that Puccino is apparently doing a upcoming version of King Lear where Puccino is King Lear, General Rachel Brosnahan is Regan and Ariana DeBose is Cordelia. Ariana DeBose is Cordelia. I'm closing this tab. Ariana DeBose. I have nothing, I have nothing more to say. I just learned about this. I shared it with you. I'm moving on. Ariana DeBose is Cordelia. This is a film? Apparently. But she, you know, doing Lear, I think it's maybe gone away from us, but that's okay. All right. What's happening? All right. I wish her well. I just want more for Jessica Chastain is the point. Yeah. She was in such a great place when she made Interstellar, the Martian, Zero Dark Thirty, et cetera. And then I just don't know why she's not one of our bigger stars. Yeah. Saw her once at our old office, the old Sunset Gower complex walking through the courtyard. Not ever been. It's just astonishing. Let's think about it from a house of our perspective. You're going to give Jessica Chastain a franchise of some kind. What kind of franchise do you want for her? Let's see. What are our choices? Maybe in Game of Thrones. She'd be a good James Bond. I mean, like the issues that the- We need one. I like that. The Marvel superhero movie that she made was Dark Phoenix. Right. That's tough. Who was she? That's very, very tough. You know, she played a book. Book? Yeah. And then we could put her in- This is hard, actually. How long do we want to tie her up for with a franchise? I mean, she seems like elfish, you know? I can see her in the hunt for Gollum with Kate Winslet. I don't agree. What about it's too late. Did you see that Kate Winslet is allegedly playing Gollum's grandmother? That's what they're doing with Kate Winslet at the hunt for Gollum. That is honestly sensational. Can I- I'm sorry. Some more mocap after- I'm sorry I was just asking questions about the Lord of the Rings, but like- Way of water and fire and ash just back in the mocap? She was really, really, really underused in Avatar Fire and Ash. I just want to say Kate Winslet. She was really sidelined for a while. And then they- Can't remember. The traumatic birth scene. Yeah, that was- Listen, what- What weren't the first three Lord of the Rings? Weren't the original three about the hunt for Gollum? Well, no. They're about the one who- Destroy the ring. Yeah. Okay. In a way, Gollum was hunting them to a certain degree. Yeah. Okay, and so now- This is a prequel. Okay, so why are they hunting him if he hasn't even hunted- If he hasn't gotten the ring yet? I think the main answer here is IP. Well, sure, but like tell me what the story is. What did Gollum do? It's from the book that like Aragorn was looking for Gollum and they're- Because of- Does Aragorn have like premonition? Does he know that Gollum's- Tell Amanda who is rumored to play young Aragorn and she will have no further questions. Leah Whittle? I'm- It's okay. It's okay. I thought you were going to say Jacob Lordy and so then I was like, great. You know what? I mean, he'd be great. I honestly, like there is a reason for the hunt for Gollum to exist other than IP. There is like some texture, but it's so slim. So whatever they're going to do, it's going to be like what they did with the Hobbit where they like just blew up a great slim children's book into three growing movies. They're blowing up like one concept into now we're going to know who Gollum's grandmother was and she's played by Kate Winslet. I'm in. I'm in. Sometimes taking just a few nuggets and expanding it can work beautifully. Rings of Power. You want to know all about Deagle. I do. I want to know all about that. I don't know where we should put Jessica Chastain though in terms of your franchise question. That's a challenge. Anywhere. What was Cape Lynch doing in those movies? Galadriel. Galadriel is Galadriel. Yeah. Elvin Queen. I think that Jessica Chastain could be Elvin Royalty. I agree. There you go. Definitely. Okay. So what's available? It's probably too late for Rings of Power season three. Some simile Rillian shit. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get her in some Future Rings project. That sounds great. We did it. Wonderful. We fixed her career with some Bezos funded Future Lord of the Rings project. Sounds great. Have we talked enough about Michael Paine and Kristen Wigg? Anything else we want to add that we haven't already gotten into? Who is the least believable NASA employee and why is it Kristen Wigg? She is who I would recast. I do feel like Donald Glover's character is underdeveloped, under explained. Overly quirked. Overly quirked. And also when he's, I had forgotten the scene where he's just sitting with his laptop plugged into the actual, like the supercomputer. Detect the math. Yeah. And just is just sitting there for a while, like me in the library stacks in college. And then he just gets a flash up. You got to check the math. Computation, correct. You got to check the math. Listen, that's cool to know how NASA and supercomputers work. Don't you wish our job was that easy where it's just like, your opinion's correct, Amanda. Hot take, correct. All right. Okay. Here's a question. I was worried. What kind of corridor are you using to plug into a supercomputer in 2015? A super cord. Is that like, it's a super cord. It's not like a lightning cable. Like, it's probably more proprietary. I'm a think of a NASA super, but I don't know. I don't know. I think, I agree that we have not tapped into Kristen Wiig's comedic genius with Annie Montross. I am standing on my corner here that Sean Beam is actually the most, the Sean Beam is most miscast as Mitch because there's like this, it feels like he's speaking the way that Boromir or Ned, this like really kind of, I don't have to, I don't have to, I don't have to report to Vincent or anyone. For me, it's in the tradition of Ed Harris, Flight Director of Apollo 13 with the Jean and the best and the, like, if they don't sleep, we don't sleep. And it's just like a very, I, Kurt, like, but he's like operating from a position of like, I'm doing this for my guys. Yeah, right. He's like, well, that's what Ed Harris is doing. And then they land on Apollo 13. And then he wipes away that one too much honor and integrity. Ozzie, you can't question my honor. Honestly, kind of. The conversation between Mitch and Teddy is not dissimilar from Coach calling out Ozzie on the mat. You're really onto something here. I love Sean Beam. He's like one of my favorites. When Teddy says, I'm going to expect your resignation at the end of this, I'm like, respectfully, you're in charge of NASA. And this is a moment of crisis. This guy's ID card should not work anymore. Come on. He's already fired. He went behind his back to secretly send a message to the Hermes crew. That's an insane acting. And it's incredibly successful results. But not the other worlds. They didn't test the probe. But not all bosses are correct. No, I know. I just don't believe. I'm not saying it's not the right outcome. I don't believe that Teddy wouldn't have fired him. There's no way. Here's my follow up question. Since the outcome was corrected, the world rejoiced. Is there something, and let's leave sports out of it because I can't have a conversation about it that makes me seem smart at all. Is there a global event that could get people out into, as you said, Trafalgar Square, Times Square, around the world, looking at giant screens and getting excited about it? Is there something that could get us off our phones, off our laptops, out of the house, into the streets? I mean, even sports, I think, wouldn't work because, yes, in terms of the legions, but you're rooting against each other. Sports, you have sides. You have rooting interests and allegiance. Yeah, I guess I'm just thinking about like... So you're not rooting for a shared outcome. You just are talking about the mass of people who are interested or the fact that everyone would be united toward one outcome. I think the answer... More people going outside. I think I have the answer. Going outside in general. I think I have the answer. What is it? I think it's first contact. I think if we haven't... If the government is transparent about our first contact with an alien and they transmitted it, which they wouldn't, but if they did, would you not want to go and be with people in that moment that we make first contact with alien creatures? Everybody's going to be building their shelters at that point, but that's more about the world is broken and the way we respond to major news events. I guess that's my question. We don't respond with one word. I'm trying to hope coreframe it, but is the world too broken to have this, let's save one man moment. This movie is 2015. This is late Obama. This is late Obama era. This is a real moment of yes we can and people. I remember the community and where I was when Obama was elected. We were all out in the streets. I was obviously like 10 years later. For Obama for sure. But now we live in a world where Barack Obama has to issue clarifications about whether aliens do or do not exist. We were ready to go out in the street in 2016. We thought for Hillary Clinton, like in San Francisco. I did go out in 2020 when they finally called it for Biden. I made my own side and I drove around honking the northeast Los Angeles and it was very fun. We did a show. Basically that. It'll haunt me forever. But listen, it was deep pandemic. You needed to do something. It's true. Do you have an answer for this? What would get people in the street? I don't have a third one. Which is pretty depressing because I think even first contact, I think it would be something like the stretches in contact where there are a lot of people out but they all want something different or they're trying to do something different. So there's like the religious faction that has sprung off. Oh, your jake feuses. Yeah, exactly. The reaction in the recent Netflix adaptation, recent-ish, I guess this has been like two fucking years. So three body problem was kind of, I think, more true to how that would go. So they meet aliens in that? I never found out what the bodies were. And there's like a mention. You know, when there's like the three. The message in the sky. Well, it's the three bodies or three problems. I still don't know. Well, it's the problem of the three bodies. Oh, it's the three bodies. Okay. Is one of them Earth or is one of them? It does involve suns and planets and orbits and rotations but it also, in this particular story, in this stretch of it involves virtual reality. So I don't think it's worth trying to sell you on. I don't endorse it. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the rest of that story. Here's my favorite question. This is the last of the quote, reasonable questions. Okay. And this is a reasonable question. Who's to say? How often and under which zero G circumstances do you imagine Sebastian Stan and Kate Mara boned in that spaceship? Okay. So this is what we know. They share a smooch. Later, many years later, there's a baby. Yes. Right. But we don't see any of the return trip from Mars. Right. Can I please share some information I learned about sex and space for this podcast? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'd be thrilled. A Google search I definitely did on this, my work laptop. Okay. This is from an article from the CBC which is titled, scientists are worried about how we're going to have sex and space. Okay. Yeah, because doesn't the lack of gravity affect how the sperm swims? And more importantly, how the blood flows. Oh, right, of course. Yes. Because it's not about, this is just about everybody having a good time. Blood tends to flow into the chest and head in space. Getting it to behave in bedroom-friendly ways that necessitate rapid blood flow is challenging. Scientifically speaking, managing and maintaining an erection in space is harder than it is on Earth. Quote, male arousal would be more challenging in space, though it could still technically be possible. And then the article goes on to like, oh, and women too, I guess. Well, I mean, for once, women have the upper hand. Slightly so. But blood flow still matters in female arousal. That is true. Okay, but so is that true only in zero gravity? Or because the interesting thing about the Hermes is that there are some floating rooms. Right. Like the hallways seem to be zero gravity, but that like the gym and other living spaces seem to be gravitized, which is definitely the verb. This is specifically zero gravity. Okay. So like if there's a gravitational boning room, a designated gravitational boning room, then that's great news. So you're telling me the scene in season one of the expanse when they're floating fucking is bullshit? Absolutely. I have more topic on that. I have more info on that. Little bummer. On the topic of fluids, note that they also pool in space. So sweat and everything else secreted during one's labor of love won't drip away. It'll collect in little zero gravity pools, turning the rest of the body into a weirdly wet wonderland. Okay. I mean, last but not least, you have to be tightly tethered to your lover in space so that each thrust doesn't send you to the opposite ends of the sex shuttle. The laws of Newtonian physics go bye bye on a space hookup. Thankfully, there's a get up for that. It's called a quote to suit and it's designed for two cosmic travelers intent on sharing that most intimate of space hugs. What about just like a sex swing? It does. I mean, that's what I was thinking. Yeah, exactly. So you're all about it. The to suit is real. It's been tested in zero gravity. I don't know how. That's what I want to know about who tested it and where. I think just like clothed like dry humping probably to test like if the thrust would sort of like work or not work. But yeah. So that's some information I learned. I also learned about aromas in space because this is a concern for me. Of course. Yeah. Because they're like commenting on Mark Watney and stuff like that. I'm like, but how do astronauts who've been up in space forever'sville smell? Do you guys want some information on what it smells like up there? Okay. This is from a different article. An astronaut said, I was touring the Harris County jail in Texas and there's this room that smells like space station, combination of antiseptic, garbage and body odor. Also the absence of gravity body smells such as farts tend to linger. Oh, because they aren't like dissipated. Yeah. UK astronaut Tim Peek said the International Space Station smell is like quote, barbecue that's gone wrong. That sounds awful. None of this sounds sexy to me. So I think that Sebastian Stan and Kate Mara maybe waited. That's a long time. They're definitely fucking. No question. What is the once they... I think it's kind of established in the book that they're fucking already. It's like the rest of the crew knows they're hooking up. I don't think it's possible that they're... Well, I guess everybody's very close. Are they fucking on Mars before the storm comes? They've only been there at Seoul 18. Those days seem pretty... The bunks were right near each other because they have gone to a rover. Oh, fucking in the rover. I don't know. Those days seem like pretty regimented. They have a lot of experiments to run to then get to the point where they're like, don't bring any of that back. But they do also because the potatoes come from a container that says don't open for Thanksgiving. So they do have some recreational or at least like... So wait till everyone gets drunk on Thanksgiving and then go fucking the rover? Is that the plan? Yeah. I guess so. Plenty of spaces on the front of the house. I think they're definitely fucking on the way back just because it's what? All the time. All the time. Year or year and a half? Yeah. So I feel like if Beth Johansson, Super Nerd, gets within a whiff of Sebastian Stan, it's like let's go. For sure. Let's make it happen. I guess this is where we should mention that when Mark opens all of their shit, he comments specifically about Johansson. It's like, whoa. So that's tough. I guess if we're factoring in how everybody is something to think about. Isn't this equivalent to Joe, what we've talked about before was like, how do we make sense of people fucking on Survivor when they're that filthy and they're just like shit in the woods and shit in the ocean? I feel like you don't really smell it anymore at a certain point, right? Wouldn't it be the same thing here? I mean, hundreds of days on the Hermes, they're like nose-one. I was thinking about this while watching Hamnet and I think about it as like generally in any kind of old timey. That's what the verbs are for. Movies. They're like very smelly on Hamnet. Yeah, but they don't have plumbing. That's why. That's why. They think about how bad it smelled. Rosemary for remembrance and also for body odor. Yeah. And they had one set of clothes. Pretty gross. Yeah. All right, that's the quote-unquote reasonable discussion. This is tier two. Rabbitfire, Martian morality slash survival test. Yeah. Would you have used your own shit to grow potatoes, Mallory Rubin? No question. You have to. You have no choice. The question is would I or any of us have thought of that? Because Mark Watney is a botanist. So this is his area of expertise. Would we have known to do this? Well, that's for sure. Well, you don't have to be a botanist to know that like poop is fertilizer. I know, but would you have thought to like slice up the potatoes and plant them? I don't know if I would have thought of that. I will just say because potatoes like sprout on their own, you know, or some other things. Maybe I would have gotten there. Yeah, would you use yours or anyone else's shit to grow potatoes? You have to put it all in that bucket and rehydrate it and mix it up. You guys, I deal with other humans shit. Literally every day. Once you're a mom, this question is not even a tough one. Every, it's been four years of daily, like just hands on. My younger son had a blowout last night before bedtime that was just, would have made excellent fertilizer, but it was like a real, like I had to. And it was like, do you ever have like names, like, you know, between you and your husband? Do you have like names for like a particular like style? Like we used to say, sogg paneer for like, yeah, but I know exactly what that is because you also learned to, like you're checking it for signs of like health at this point. Yeah. And you notice the changes, you know, I, a day when I let my son eat only blueberries, which he would love to do, then it is suddenly like blueberry, which is honestly not as bad as some, some of the other poop. This is like how I talked about how you need to set a text reminder to yourself that you ate beets like the next day. Yeah. Or that you ate asparagus in sure. But I'm always surprised every time I'm like, what's going on? So I don't need to be worried about this. I don't know. I think I'm like really on the look for perimenopause. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, is this a sign? Is this a sign? And then I'm like, no, no, it's just that I had asparagus. So. So the thing is, is that my husband and I are so like quite literally in the shit right now that like to talk about it at great length just makes it worse. Sure. So we cope by not really acknowledging it. Oh, OK, fair. But it's like my both my sons love black beans. And every time I feed the black beans, I am just a little bit like, I know I'm going to see this again. This is going to be bad. And I know in it like an interesting way. So. Yeah. No, absolutely no problem. So now that we talked about beets and asparagus and black beans and other sort of vegetation, if you could grow anything in your or someone else's shit and eat it for a year and a half, which crop would you shit farm? You get one condiment to go with it. But please be more cautious than Mark was with the ketchup. Rastani, we also get like to crush. Squeezing. He was just like, he was just dolloping that stuff. And I was watching him like and I had remembered. I had not remembered that he ran out of ketchup. And I was like, you're going to run a ketchup buddy. And then he's just like grind that potato into the vicarin. He rationed like the sweet and sour chicken and the meatloaf and everything. But the jelly beans strewn about recklessly. And the ketchup. So what are you growing? If you can grow one thing, I would pick potatoes. You pick because I love potatoes. I love french fries. I love mashed potatoes. I love a baked potato. I love an aggrotton. I love all sorts of you can make potatoes aggrotton on Mars. You get the you get the. I think I'm not making it past a little time. 19. Yeah, this is probably. But so in addition to like, I like french fries and potato chips, but otherwise I'm like not really. Oh, I love a potato. I mean, this is a pain to prepare. This is I mean, this is the issue. Like it takes so much work. But he's just. He's just looking those. He's just looking those. And then biting them really quickly. But so here's here's the other question I had. And there are some other incidents in the Martian that preclude us from ever having to explore this. Yeah. But the thing about just eating potatoes is don't you become incredibly constipated? But I think this is one of the virtues of this plan. It's like it's binding. But you need the shit in order to keep growing your food. So I like don't we have a problem? They are probably on some sort of I would expect like vitamin. I'm sure I'm sure he is laxatives. It is in the habs. Yeah, but listen, we all know. You got to see your. Only can you imagine? It's cold. Yeah, it's no, I can't because we all know what travel is like. And then when there's no gravity speaking of. So I'm just saying. But it's not vitamins because all of those like here's your fiber supplement when you're traveling, they don't work. It's colis only. What are you if you are expecting right now, take it with you to the hospital? What are you? What are you growing? Avocado avocado, which I mean, I love an avocado. I love it. Here's my major butter. But it's a super food. They always say it's like is the most complete food. But you can't afford in this scenario to be picky about is this properly ripe? Well, I think you would have time to game it out. It's one of the. Tell you, yeah, I don't mind a slightly crunchy avocado. It's not the end of the world. I don't like that to know. To know. Like very much like a banana. But here's the other thing. And this was inspired a little bit by Cent Help. This is a movie starring Rachel McGann. I haven't seen it. You where the avocado. Looks scary. Can also serve as a moisturizer. OK, interesting hair, skin, other things. She's using coconut. She's got more variety. But I think my favorite innovation that she does in that movie is like when she makes her beautiful sashimi plate and then she makes the sauce, which I think is just saltwater. Yeah, yeah. She's like, this is the soy sauce. And I was like, she'd be ingesting that. I don't know. It looks delicious to me. But so you can eat the avocado. It's, you know, fats, fiber, speaking of constipation. But how many how I guess if you're rationing it, maybe it's appropriate, but that's a lot of avocado. I do love avocado. It's a lot of potato. I've never hit my limit on avocado. Yeah, I think I have on potato. Interesting. My answer is kale. I genuinely love kale. I considered kale. I do love kale, too. That's going to be like another stomach issue. I agree. That was why I didn't. Is that too much fiber? Too much rustling. Too far in the other direction. I just I feel like you would. How much can that vacuum seal? I'm dealing. My kale cross will be so bountiful is what I think. And you know, and also like your tummy would hurt as my four year old would put it, you know, I eat a lot of kale. What I love kale, too. What is your one condiment that you would put with your avocado? Avocado kind of stands alone. But what would you? I would oil some salt. I want all of them. They have the salt and pepper olive oil for kale or. I can't have lemon because it's that's another. But maybe they have bottles of lemon juice. You know what I mean? Oh, interesting. That's like some part of a freshly squozen lemon. Yeah. And is there anything else I could use the lemon for? I mean, the lemon could also extend the life of the avocado to keep it from browning a little bit. Smart. Smart. Would you have violated orders to send the message about Mark Mallory Rubin? Yes, of course. Just like my hero. Rural follower. Mitch Henderson. No, you have to do it. I think that's the connection between Mitch and the Hermes crew. Like the way he sends them the video message first before the secret message, before the rich, pronounced maneuver instructions, when he sends the video message to tell them the mark is live. And he's like, they can see him. It's a video message. He's like, hi. It's Mitch Henderson. I'm like, is this like a full first name, last name, like introduction? Like they've never interacted and we're supposed to believe that he would risk his career. Right. That part is a little off to me. Obviously, you have to get the message to the Hermes crew and allow them to make the decision. That is correct. And Teddy is operating from a position of public and corporate. I want more dead bodies in space. He's afraid, which makes sense. But you got to do what Mitch does and get the message to them and let them be in control of their own fate and make the decision about us when they're dying. And then Mallory would fire you. And then you'd be fucking out. And then Mallory would take your access card. Then you'd be gone. What do you do? But then he gets golfing. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. OK. Also, I don't like listening to authority, so fuck them. Let's start with Amanda. Amanda, could you perform surgery on yourself? This is the hardest part. I mean, he's clearly, he knows what to do. He's been trained at some sort of emergency service. And I have not been trained. As a podcaster, you've not been trained. Yeah, in any of it. We should mention this, by the way, not to go back to shit once more. And yet, they're all trick. This is part of screening to can you hack it as an astronaut in space to go back to the right stuff. The famous iconic balloon sequence. And get to the bathroom in time. They've got to be able to say, I have a gastrointestinal tract that is reliable and trusting and can operate at this level of consistency or I'm in control to a certain extent. So maybe the concerns of mere mortals would not be a concern for Mark Watney in either direction. That's possible. You mean constipation points? She's going back to the shit. OK. Yeah. So on the surgery. On the surgery front. Also, trained to prove the training to a preferred surgery. Is this about fear and pain tolerance? Fine motor skills and just in moments of distress. I don't have great fine motor skills, but I do also think from a pain tolerance, I wouldn't have fun. But yes, I could do it. This is very much the scene in the Nick when Clive O'Less. It's gross. Jasper does it too. But I don't really feel like I scientifically. I guess now I've seen enough movies that I would know I need to get the shrapnel out. And then I need to keep it closed. I'm worried about sterilization. That's stapling. Which he's not. Listen, I like, you know, sepsis. The punch in show that is to numb. Right. Is it also to disinfer? I don't know. It's 2035. So it could be anything. Yeah. I think I would be OK. Similar. I I would actually be like, I'm going to try. This is where I die. Pain tolerance. This is going to be a question. I was going to ask the question. How far do you last? I think I die right away. But on the operating table or because you didn't try. Like, do you die because you don't attempt to get the shrapnel out or do you attempt and you bleed out? I attempt and I get myself. I get myself an infection of some kind. Yeah. Yeah. I think I would. I miss something and it's over. That's my worry. Yeah. Or not even maybe missing something, but maybe just I'm afraid I'm going to miss something. And so I continue. To it becomes like a space madness thing. The crevice of the wound. I'm like, surely something else is in there. You know, he has a moment where. It's going to deteriorate and yeah, that wouldn't be enough for me. I wouldn't be sold that I had gotten it all. And so at a certain point I would like, what about like vital organ fibers of the suit that might have gone in there? Yeah. I mean, OK. Malirbin and Jessica Chastain only left behind one song instead of an entire library of disco music. Which singular track do you think could carry you through a year and a half of isolation? Hmm. I guess I would want it to be a Bob Dylan song and not a disco song. That would be my dream. And Bob has a lot of long ones. Bob has a lot of long ones. I could just listen to like visions of Johanna, you know, the time would pass. It would pass. I would love, you know, it'll be able to listen to if you see her say hello, which is like both a beautiful song and a story. That would be nice. But I actually think the song across my life that I have probably listened to the most times without ever tiring of, including the most times in a row back in high school, Billy Joel for the longest time. I could listen to that song thousands of times in a row and never tire. You know, my acapella group sang that in college. Sing it for me right now. Which part were you? If you said goodbye to me tonight. Could I? There was still. No, no, no, this is great. May I tell you a personal anecdote? Please. That can actually top acapella group. So I went to a progressive ish for Atlanta in the time period elementary school. Sure. That had the like the big school play every year was led. It went up to sixth grade. And so it was led by the sixth graders and it was an adaptation of an opera or an operetta. OK, I would say that some of the costuming and interpretation choices in those things were less progressive. But again, I am 41. So it was a different time. You bet they did. Yeah. But in fifth grade, the fifth graders who were like the juniors would get to write their own play based on one of the like historical. Incredible. Not lessons, but what units that you are doing throughout the year. And not only would you write the play and then start it, do the sets, do the costumes or everything was very like DIY. But there was a musical and so the songs were written or in this case, new lyrics about the historical unit in question put to a set to fantastic to lyrics. So our historical or chosen historical unit was called Digging Below the Surface. So it was Mesopotamia. And so the play was called Digging Below the Surface. OK, great. And it was about an archaeologist and then one of his very his star, but not very respectful students who are on an archaeological dig learning about Mesopotamia Mesopotamia and themselves. And you said it to Billy Joel's the longest time. Like Digging Below the Surface. Digging Below the Surface like spiritually. This theme song, the opening and closing song. I will now sing the chorus for you. Oh, incredible. Mesopotamia. No, I can't. To God. It doesn't scan. I love it. Can you give us some of the verses? No, but all Mesopotamia. Mesopotamia has stayed with me for almost 35 years now. Also, by the way, I was the disrespectful student just so you know, lead, liberal. Honestly, I could have guessed that. Secondly, incredible. Chris Ryan has promised to sing on this podcast and never has. Yeah. Coward. Well, who we were. Yeah. So now you could have both for the longest time and. Mesopotamia. Yeah. I mean, I was the one that's keeping you. Keeping you. This was fairly. But if instead it is just, oh, Mesopotamia. No, this is fairly random. But so I disagree with Mark Watney, disco music rules. Anything, her choices are a little like. Basic. On the nose, basic. Exactly. Um, and we don't even get, um, like the full chorus of Don't Leave Me This Way, which is such a jam. It's the best, the best song in, in this movie. But we also, we recently introduced. Did it make you think about Milam Rouge? Yes. Which we recently discussed. So we recently introduced my son to Daft Punk because he's really into helmet guys, speaking of Legos and also the Mandalorian. Yeah, of course. Uh, and, and the videos are, you know, some of the better YouTube content you can show us. My child. So get lucky. Yes. Daft Punk with Pharrell Williams and now routers. I think that I have probably listened to that song a thousand times. You know, because it's kind of always on. Yeah. It's, it's excellent. It also like doesn't really begin and end. So it could just like play forever. Yeah. And that's just kind of my move and I'd be bopping around. I love it. You know, growing avocados live in my best life. What if you, what if you can only listen to one podcast? You know, um, one episode or one podcast. I know what the episode is. It's JFK rewatchables. That's my comfort. Listen, I listened to it at least once a year, usually around Christmas when it was recorded. Um, those holidays, those guys being weirdos, trying to solve the JFK assassination is why I love them. And, and are you going to sub it out moving forward for bill just without any warning? Just saying to Sean and Chris, come over. Not going to tell you why. And then he just says these are the 50. Number 16. The limitless. And then number one devil wears Prada is I always feel close to Bill. That's why I thought it might be the new podcast for you. That is why Bill is my number one forever. Would devil wears Prada be the one movie that you picked? If you could watch one movie forever in the hab and then the rover and then on the Hermes? I mean, it's probably the movie I like bill. It's probably like bill, the movie that I've watched the most. What movie would make me? Could we do? Could we smuggle in the whole trilogy? I would say the Lord of the Rings trilogy is what I was going to say. If we can do an extended a dish. Yeah, extended a dish. We're honestly fed. That'll get us through so many souls. We have kale, maybe potatoes, kale and Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings extended a dish. I'm picking LCD sound system. All my friends, that's an eight minute song. And that's just going to make you really depressed. No, I feel like it's an amazing song. But I guess I also, I associate it with the Greenberg trailer, the Noah Bomback. I guess what I don't. And which, but I love Greenberg. Yeah. I think it's important to write letters, letting people know how you feel. And, but I associate it with like a young grumpy, slightly on edge phase of of my life, which was being in my late twenties. So. But I'm young and grumpy eternally. You know, that's beautiful. That's great. With kale. Malarubin, would you turn the Hermes around and give it up more years of your life to save Mark Watney? No question. What about to save Amanda Dobbins? Without hesitation. What about to save Joanna Robinson? Are you kidding? Of course. Amanda, here's the thing. I mean, yes, except I, I can't believe that they allow people with children to go on these missions. This was my thing. I kind of think that. I kind of think that. Vogle with his kids, like. It's got a lot of them too. Yeah. And I guess, I guess originally it was only supposed to be what, like. They're adding 533 days to there. So it's a long. So it's supposed to be a year and a additional time. But the original one is how long is the original mission? The original Hermes mission? I'm not sure. Well, and they, they are heading home early. So we're adding the extra time onto a shortened mission because the storm hits on soul 18, Mark Wakes on soul 19. That's much less time. And he says in the movie, how many souls they were supposed to be there? Yes. Yeah. 31 and they, but they have 68 souls worth. Right. The redundancy. I'm just trying to understand. So how long are these people originally supposed to be away from there? Well, I'm not a scientist. I don't know how long it takes to get to Mars. The back in 2035. Is it I think, because we hear that the probe is going to take nine months to get there, the one that the misfire, the initial Iris probe, I think. But there's also a lot of discussion throughout the film about like Earth and Mars are in the wrong position to be doing a launch. So obviously that impacts the time based on where we are, as I understand it. Not a scientist. Like I am thinking through how long I would allow my husband But I'm just saying, I think there, I mean, this is what first man is about to a certain degree, but like there are some people, I think, who just want to go to space. Yes. Yeah. Well, their calculus has the extra element of it's not just the added time. And Lewis insists on the unanimous vote because of this. She's like, Hey, you know, Martina is like, we're military. We're going to get court-martialed. Everybody else. And again, this is like you said, it's like men and days of your who just want to be on the sea. And they're like, my love, my love, my lady is the sea. And I have kids, but I don't really care. Yeah, exactly. But like they have the there's the question of like, will they, you know, because Vogue has that line, like it's going to be more than 900 days. I'm upset. Actually, I'm good. I don't need to come back if they don't let us come back. But there is this question of like, you have become one of the people who has done something that only so many people in the history of the world, the history of mankind have done. And then what if you come back and you're like, you're in space jail? Like that's all taken away from you. They have to weigh that aspect of it. The fact that it's so easy for them makes complete sense to me because they are a crew, they are a family. I love at the beginning and that stretch that looks odd to us visually now. We get to just hear the way they talk to each other, the way they joke. We get that when Martinez and Watney finally are able to like message each other. There's the, you can feel the authenticity of the relationships, but also like the friendship and the affection. Plus there's the guilt and the shame and the sense of duty leave no man behind. Right. So frankly, not that they would have any reason to believe they could go back and that's obviously why the entire Rich Pernell maneuver plotline exists. It has to be this like bold idea and we can only, you know, you, the pro, there's only one probe. We got to pick one. Yeah, we got a slingshot. When they find out. It's classic apologetic. Got to do a slingshot. So you think that they should, when they found out Mark was alive, should they have been like, can we go back to get him? Should they have? No bad ideas in the brainstorm. David Jacobi is him. Hey, NASA, any way we could go back to get him. They know that Hermes is meant for the entire Aries mission. Right. But they. Right. But at that point, they don't have enough supplies. No, but should they have been like, Hey guys, any chance, just like everyone else on earth is like, we're going to try to think of every possible question and answer. Hey guys, stop using so much ketchup. We got to go. We should have been like, here are some thoughts and ideas and questions and then get any of the geniuses back home. Like maybe work on this a little bit. Sort of interesting that that doesn't happen. All right. We covered music, we covered movies. Last question is if there is Mark is watching some happy days in on Mars. Is there one TV show that you would pick to sustain you for a year and a half? The one that I mean, I've obviously there are a lot of shows I never get tired of watching battle star Game of Thrones, you know, painful though, the last couple seasons are my answer for like thing that feels the most satisfying to return to no matter how many times they do it is lost. However, I wonder if that would be the best choice in the circumstance. Where you were stranded on when you're going over so I don't know. It might be too much, but maybe could I find inspiration there? But there's no space coconut. You know what I mean? There's no like jungle inspiration for you to translate on. What if I could find smokey? OK. Keep things interesting. May I know what are you watching in space? I just went gut instinct the crown at least the first five seasons. It's just an incredible dot. First of all, immersive. Not the season we cover. No, I said seasons one through five. The five is a little borderline, but I listen, if they just want to redo season six and recast, like recast, read, reconceptualize, I'd be open to it. I obviously watch any prequels they want to make. But it's really just it's going to take you out of your current state. Yeah. Maybe it's a comedy, a good idea. I would do Schitt's Creek. That is like a. That's a really good. Internally, like I can always buy about with Schitt's Creek. All right, I'm going to do Shorzy. Oh, OK. I'm going to look around and there will be no one there to say, give your balls a tug too, and I'll realize how alone I am. You can just say it to yourself. I will. All right. Last but not least, this is tier three bonus unhinged space round. This is a gift for Amanda Dobbins. Totally right. And this is just like we're pulling back the curtain to let you at home know that sometimes not very often, but sometimes Amanda will text us questions that Knox has about Star Wars. Yeah. And and specifically, I guess he does have some Star Wars Star Wars questions too, but sorry, I just have a notes app. No questions. No. OK. Three questions. And yeah. So. So give everyone a quick primer just how Knox is. So my son is my son is four years old and a very curious and wonderful kid. And I'm still really honored when you text us. Not only honored that you text us, but particularly honored that you have Knox is too young to listen to this podcast. Yeah. Lied to your child by telling him that we know the people who made this movie. Because my son has gone right to the source. So he's not allowed to have characters at school. So he only only only knows about the pop culture that we give to him still because he's young and he goes to preschool or like you can't wear you can't wear a Star Wars shirt or whatever to school. So he but he does know a lot about filmmaking because we're nerds. Yes. So he knows that there are directors of the movie and he wants me to ask the directors of the movie and more specifically to email them. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Because he knows. He's a don't write. I'll text them. Yeah. And I said I'm going to text my friends who know the directors. So which I think is so he asked a lot of questions. He saw the trailer for the Mandalorian and Grogu before as Utopia 2, a film that I thought stunk. And I'll shut like unnecessary. This is like real Timothy Shallow Day. Let me take a dig in from ballet for no reason. Old news on the big picture is just like about patents and like propaganda. Like cool. So where are you at? Hoppers. We went together and twenty five minutes in my son turned to me and was like, this is not hoppers because he was promised an animal in the middle. But once the animals showed up, he was. Yeah, it was. I thought by one hand is very funny and I haven't seen it yet. I can't wait. And Lof. I was into Lof, who's the hopper who doesn't who's stoned all the time. Oh, so wonderful. Knox was really into the green baby to Grogu as he first saw him in the night. So I have one question. I asked an answer. His name is Grogu and he still calls him Grogu. This, you know, and how did he meet Grogu because he doesn't watch the Mandalorian. Right. So then I told Sean Fennessey, my co-host on the big picture and a close friend that Knox really responded to the Mandalorian and Grogu trailer. And in and this was right for Christmas. Like in came that was the first time he saw Grogu was in the trailer. The first time. Yes. Oh, wow. And so in came Toy Grogu for Christmas in his little ship, which Knox calls a boat. And then over Christmas, you're like, OK, well, it was raining all the time. So then he got to watch the original Star Wars, which he does not understand at all. And he calls it's Dark Vader and Blue Skywalker are the names. And I would say most of our Star Wars content at this point is watching videos of John Williams conducting Vienna Philharmonic playing the Star Wars. Which is honestly one of the most amazing things I've ever seen because all of these Viennese, some international musicians at this in the V of an Philharmonic are like so overcome with childlike wander and getting to play. Oh, my God. The main title. It's it's there's a whole they did a whole concert. I mean, John Williams says these all the time, but I really recommend that John Williams, Vienna Philharmonic series. But so he doesn't know anything except the trailer and a new hope, which he's seen a few times. OK. He's only seen a new hope of he didn't go to a soon for empire. I think so. He's still young. Yeah. And you haven't introduced him to Ewoks yet. And no, he doesn't know about Ewoks. And he doesn't really. It's not a big plot guy yet. OK. Can't really recap plots for all the more reasons to show him the Ewoks. But he does have a sense of the mood of something. There we go. So I think like Empire Strikes Back will freak him out. But there's been more grogu introduced into our lives entirely by Sean and then our friend Nick, and he knows that the movie is coming out in May. OK. And just every so often, randomly, he will ask me random questions about grogu that I cannot answer. Does he know that Uncle Chris has said on the public record he refuses to see this film? That's right. But I have corrected Chris on the public record that Chris will be taking Knox. You see. And Chris came to Knox's fourth birthday party and Knox ran up to him. And the first thing he said was, does the Mandalorian have a face? Which is something I was able to answer. So that's not one of the questions that we'll be asking on this. Damn. I do like how many times we see Petra Pascal's face in the most recent trailer. They're like, we know the joke. We know you're wondering if he's actually in this. Don't worry. We got Petra on set for this one. We're going to show you like four different times where you're going to see his face. Smart. Yeah. So here are the questions that I've written down on this note app as he asked them. OK. Number one. And like his question is, does grogu go to Earth? No. No. So but I would like to extend it a little bit so that I can answer him. He goes to many planets in the Mandalorian, though. Sure. Yeah. Does Earth does not exist in the timeline. So it's a different timeline. It's a different galaxy far, far away. But that doesn't mean that Earth doesn't exist in our galaxy at the same time. It's a long time ago and a galaxy far, far away. But there are galaxies far, far away right now. So absolutely. How do you know that the Earth doesn't exist? So a long running Star Wars discussion point is like when Han says, see you in hell. Right. Right. Right. They're like, but that's how we talk. Right. You know, there's even just a very neat back on the menu boys. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. This idea, this very like Earth bound human turn of phrase and concept of hell. But Knox will not be seeing Earth at any point in Star Wars. Right. Would you prefer we give a different answer so Knox can hope that someday Grogu will come here? No, no, no. I'm just trying to understand. But it's not like a multiverse thing. And just like even in the multiverse, like it's I understand I've read the credits. A great thing when we watch a new hope is whether I'm allowed to read the credits aloud to him or not. Sometimes I am. Sometimes I'm not. So one time it started, he said, Mama, don't film me because I have a lot of videos of him watching the beginning of Star Wars. He doesn't want to be content. But it's a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. But that doesn't mean that our planet doesn't exist. I agree with you. For sure. But Earth will not be featured. So Earth is not featured in Star Wars, but it does. It could exist. And no one has shown any knowledge of the existence of Earth. Correct. No. OK. Great. Thank you. I'll just let him know that it's in a different galaxy. He knows about galaxies because we checked out an encyclopedia, a space encyclopedia. He doesn't need to worry about Earth. He needs to start learning about the outer rim. No, that's where he's got to really focus his attention. Why does the Mandalorian have a cape? Oh, interesting. A lot of them do. Yeah. Yeah. The most recent Mandalorian, stuffed Mandalorian that we were given from by Sean for his birthday, yeah, has a cape. And we don't we don't know why. What does he use the cape for? Well, he's not a superhero. I would say. Isn't he? Is he a knight? I mean, drama. This is related, but Knox often refers to him as a knight. Oh, interesting, because it looks like he's wearing because he's wearing the silver. Yeah, like a like a suit of armor and. I mean, this all comes from Boba Fett. That's the thing. And the thing with Boba Fett is like, I remember them. I watched a documentary on this and they were like designing Boba Fett. And there was like, at one point, they like tied a towel around his like, you know, just to like see how a cape would look. So I think it just came down to this is not a great answer for Knox, necessarily, but like came down to like, how do we make the armor look cool and regal and like exciting? And that's the whole thing about Boba Fett is like famously he looked so cool that people thought he was going to be this huge important character. And then he's spoiled or he's not. Though I have some notes, because I would not put a cape anywhere near a jet pack. This is the thing, because there are certain aspects of I think that's exactly the right answer is like, it's a part of the genuinely iconic original costume from which all of their Mandalorian designs stem. OK, so it's a fashion thing. It's fashion. It's like he's cute. He always with me. He understands. He's dropping a fit. He gets that. I Knox understands that sometimes you just want to look chic as he says. Exactly. So OK, look at. Wow, he says chic. Yeah, we time to say that. So whenever I. And it's X. This is amazing. So when you when we dress up, he's like, mommy, you look chic. It's great. I love it. Yeah. What an angel. I think that Joe is right that there are certain aspects of what either Dinjarn or like a Mandalorian more generally would would would do and be engaging in the jet pack is a great one that like the pairing with the cape feels impractical. However, I think there are other aspects where either the additional the warmth that that can provide you, you know, cozying up your out on a mission on a desert planet. You don't think it's warm in that armor. I mean, it's it's fucking I think it's gnarly in that. It's boiling every time you take a helmet off. He's like matted with sweat, but you know, can just like kind of rent. He's got a little grougou that grougou is hiding in. And then he's kind of like a little bit of a hiding him under. So there's there's kind of a practical. What do you need to hide and drama? What do you need to be warm in? Imagine flouncing out of a room without a cape. Maybe you're like, I've got fucking whistling birds in my van braces and I don't want anyone to know when I can hide it for a second. And then let me know if he wants to know about the the van brace. I don't think he knows. He knows what that is yet. Get back to you. All right. It's your last one. Yeah. And this one I have I've sent to you before, but I thought it was a pretty good discussion topic. And I really didn't know how to answer it in a moment. Well, no, it's more essential. Is grougou a human or an animal? And and so I listen, let's talk about it. And let's talk about how being but right. But how do you explain a being to a four year old? Because I found myself. He's another he's another another race of of being. He's a he's a. So, you know, my first instinct, as I told you, does he does not know you. He's a mammal. And I was like, well, that's not right because that's not the first. And then Zach was like, but he's he doesn't know you. He doesn't know that you're not. So yeah, he does. He's not like super into Chewbacca. OK. And also, how are you going to? So this isn't a thing because as soon as I said, well, he's a mammal. And I was like, I guess it's not really. And also, how am I going to explain what a mammal is to you? Because that's that's Earth centric. So then Zach was like, he's an alien. And I was kind of like, he's a being. So but for sure. And but an alien again. Well, he wouldn't say. It's very Earth centric. That's right. He's just that there is a different galaxy. Yeah, where there are all different types of. That's why I'm saying being. He's another. Different. Yeah. But then so you came through with species and then you told me there was like. Because he's part of the same species as Yoda and Yaddle, who like you could show not. I believe I said an accessory, which is. That's more of a screenwriting problem. Sure. Yeah. Calling and frankly outrageous. I was on board with being. I was on board with being for the first season. And since they have all he does is babble and coo. He's a baby. He's a pet. He's a 50 year old baby. Well, first of all, I would say that they weaponized. A pet. You think they put a weapon or man. You think they put a weapon on that baby. Yeah. Also, sure. He had the little dog. I'm saying if he's a baby, you're putting weapons on the baby. He's a training. He's a baby. He was a family. It's an animal. No. You would put a weapon on an animal. It depends on the animal. Laser on dolphins. God. I think that the simplest way to put it to Nox is armored bears. Well, I mean, you know, I love an armored bear. His dark materials. I've always, when Grogu ages. Yes. And I think, frankly, Star Wars fans live in fear of this moment because it's so precious when he babbles and coos. He will speak in English. Because they're like, wouldn't it be cute if Yoda was a baby? True. And now they're like, we're afraid to let this baby age. And so we're just keeping him in a rested development. He's in his early fifties. He's in his early fifties. He's been through some trauma. I mean, he's going to. I would say he's got hundreds and hundreds of years of life. And I and I brought. So listen, so I brought this home to my. Crazy. I kind of agree with both of you because I brought this alive to my four year old by you explained some of the timelines. And I was like, you know what, Noxie? He is about baby Yoda. I'm sorry. Grogu. Yeah. Sure. Is about the same age in Yoda years is what I said. I said he's about the same age as your little brother, Sai, who is 18 months. I think he's more like Noxie. Just started cooing, just stopped cooing and has some words. But he's going to school. And stealing back of runes from other kids. Those other kids. Who can speak and he's just babbling and cooing. Sai is basically our pet. I love him so much and he has an incredible future. But I spend all of my time either taking care of his shit, trying to keep him from going into something that he's not supposed to go into. Yes. You running off. He's like he's the king of mischief. Uh-huh. And he can say the word rascal to you. That's a cool nickname. King of mischief is a cool nickname. And rascal is a great word. And I just have to like make sure that he's not causing problems at all times. So here's it is not. Here's the. Not. And it's not a derogatory. You love a pet. I love a pet. But here's the. I love my son. Here's my pet right now. I just want everyone watching. I think you're describing to me a baby, a young being. Because here's why. Because sometimes when the plot doesn't want Grogu around for whatever they're doing, yeah, Dijon will just sort of like leave him at a closet. Yes. Well, he used to do that a lot more in the olden days when he was. Which I might do with a pet. But now I would not do with a baby. I wouldn't leave a pet in the closet. If it's a safe closet and they have food and water. Much he's bringing him with them. And then there's no one there to monitor him. Right. But that was a very. That was like really. Like very. Season one. Not a closet. You know, that was very season one. Like every episode needs somebody to babysit Grogu. He's you know, he's he's there in the sidecar. He's with them going through traversing the caverns and Mandalore like being adopted. Yeah. And just being like, ah, which is not a developed person being. But he's young. He has to learn to speak still. That means he can't be a being until he hears what I think is they're never going to express himself all the time. Barely all the time. Barely. Remember when he took the blue macarons and ate them and then threw up on himself and he was like, oh, that was great. That that is very. When he said that I threw up for the first time recently and he threw up and the names just like, what happened? I don't know what throwing up is. I see my cat do that. Yeah. Again. And I think cats are. Side 10 points. Cats are people. Cats are like more advanced than many people. Oh, my hope is that my hope is that I will develop because. And I know I doubt that will ever be allowed to develop because they do not want that I think they're talking. That's reasonable, actually. I think that it's a risk to have him start speaking much like it. When they talk about like they could they just need to spend some more time around kids because like giving him one word and even when they get the name. Broguel out there was like that like that little girl monsters. Thank you. Yeah. I think I think very special, very special. He's very he works. I will reconsider this. Of course, I will reconsider this when did Jar when Grogu says, did Jarin for the first time or even daddy or dad. Is that what about when he got his custom Rondell plate of armor? I would say don't armor a baby. I think I agree. Don't put armor on a baby. Don't put weapons on a baby. You can't say he's a baby. And then be like, he's just a little baby, but also they're putting armor and weapons on him. I think he's more like I don't think he's a baby. He's a baby, but I think he's more like he's in the like. I don't know exactly what his age equivalent is, but when he went to the class with basically the elementary school age children, he obviously hadn't developed as far as they have. But I was like, this isn't crazy to me that he's here. They didn't put a bass in it. He's so bored. He huffed a bunch of macarons and vomited them. He uses to force an exhaust for a long time. Didn't understand that he needed to feed him. And so Grogu had to end the line. He ate that ladies. He ate that ladies, babies. He ate that ladies, babies. That's something a pet would do. It's also something a young child would do who's still learning. How many, how many times did I eat so many Cadbury cream eggs? I do that still. I'm 39. God damn it. All right. So that's your answer. OK. Thank you so much. We've I think he's like we're going to hearing more from Knox. Honestly, the best way. What tore apart the group chat? I'll bring it onto a microphone. I'm delighted that Knox has discovered love for Star Wars, that Alice has discovered a love for Star Wars. It's a magical time. It is interesting too, because I am not a person who I've seen them, but I don't know everything. Will you show him the animated television shows? I think he'd love them. No, I have to tell you that I let him sit with me through a couple of the animated feature films nominated for Oscars this year. I heard you talk about this on the pod. Yeah, listen, and the worst movie watching experience of my life was watching Little Omelie or the character of Rain. They're so depressing. Well, that's not their problem. The problem is that my four year old was just like, who's that? What are they doing? What's that rain doing? What are they talking about? And it is like Jesse Buckley at the end of Hamnet when it's like, what's going on? On the stage. I can't go back to Hamnet. I can't go back with you. I can't. I was I was I cried talking about him. That's so you can't say I didn't give it my fair shot, but I just I don't enjoy. And that's OK. That type of theater or film watching. Once people are emotionally connected, it's great. Hey, mama. Why? Who's that guy? In conclusion, Amanda is anti-anticeller, anti-Hamnet, pro digging below the surface. Yeah. And and Mesopotamia. Mesopotamia, darling. Mesopotamia. That has been, as promised, a catechon on Hinge episode. That's about the Martian. Had a great time. We will thank you so much to Amanda. Thank you for having me. Thank you. And what a delight. Aluminous being, if there ever was one. Incredible. Will you come back? Well, we're going to talk about scheduling and traffic patterns. But but with you two, yeah, for you two. It was the podcast. Yes, you're you're undecided on this physical location. Being with both of you is a delight. Thank you for having me. Thank you to Mallory Rubin. Thank you to Joanna Robinson. Thank you to Carlos Cheruboga. Thank you to the entire team here helping us today. Jake Hornet, Chris Wallers is here. Jomi had dinner on the social or Jena Ringo Powell, holding all the pieces together. Whole team. We'll be back for a project Hail Mary deep dive. I can't wait. With Andy Weir, who sat right here. He was in studio. In studio. Wow. See you then. Bye.