EP 55: Lights, Camera, Action with Andrew Shebay: The Art of Film

Disclaimer. At Two Addicts in the Moron, we discuss personal stories of addiction with the intention of being educational, relatable, and inspirational. The views and experiences shared are those of individuals involved are not meant to glorify or condone any illegal or harmful behavior. This content is for educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, we strongly encourage you seek help from a qualified professional or support service. And just like that, we are back to another great episode of Two Addicts in the Moron. And today, it's not so much Two Addicts in the Moron. It's one addict, one moron, and a fucking brilliant filmmaker. Ladies and gentlemen, everybody, Andrew Shabay. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Look, man, thank you so much for coming by, dude. I am, I have become a fan of you. I'll tell you a little bit about how I became a fan, but it was watching 100 miles to redemption. I went into it thinking it was homework because I wanted to get to know a little bit more about Sean and his journey before he came onto our podcast. And I love Sean to death and we had talked times before he came on. So I was like, you know what though, I'm going to just see a little bit more kind of peel the curtain back and started his homework and ended with like just blown away by the film. It was fantastic. It's a documentary. 100 miles to redemption. We've said it before, but I'm saying it again. Watch that movie. Trust me, you're struggling with anything, not just addiction, but you know, you watch him struggle or you watch him, you listen to him, his struggles and addiction. And then you watch him struggle in this race. Right. So it's, it's, it's funny because every time like I need to go for a jog, I feel a little bit fat at home and yeah. I need to just get some like release out. Yeah. I have to watch a documentary, not going for a hundred mile drive. I'm going for a mile. Yeah. But it will motivate me to run a mile. A hundred miles for you. Right. One mile for me. A hundred miles for Sean. Like I was just saying, there is nobody on earth that'll make you feel lazier than Sean. Sure. And at least one that I know personally and love. So the fact that you got to bring that to light and you had the different perspective of his family and dude, the end of that movie where he's coming to the finish line and the family's there and he loses it. Like I was just like, oh, dude, you got me so, so good. And that in that moment, it was a beautifully made film. And it really was. So huge fan. I think we all lost it in that moment, even when it was happening. Oh, yeah. We kind of, we kind of set it up that way to be a secret to Sean and it was. But man, it yeah. And that look that moment was so real. It doesn't get any more real than that. You can't act that you can't script that. It was so real. And it was so heartwarming. Especially after I interviewed his mom and his sister and his stepdad in Youngstown, Ohio. It was like she didn't want to go to that. She didn't. She didn't want anything to do with him. And she showed up for him. Who? His sister. Yeah. It was really his sister. Yeah. Look, parents will love you unconditionally. Yeah. They'll always show up for you. Even if they say they won't show up for you, they'll show up for you. Yeah. 100%. Siblings. Uh-huh. This, this, uh, the sibling and his sister just, she got me the most because I'm the youngest of three. My wife, she's got siblings and it's just that, that sibling connection. I think anyone that has a sibling and if you do wrong by them, I think that hurts you the most. Yeah. Cause you know your parents are going to love you, but when your siblings can forgive you in that way and show up for you, man, there's nothing more powerful than that. Yeah. Especially siblings, like whenever you're closer in age, like you're always going to have a friend, right? Yeah. Like if you're in fourth grade and your brothers in second grade or you said, you're always going to have a friend no matter what, right? You're always going to have a best friend. And unfortunately during addiction, those are the people that we hurt the most. We hurt the ones that love us the most. Yeah. It's the siblings. I mean, like, look, if you, if you make your parents cry, you're like, you feel bad, but if you make a sibling cry, yeah. I mean, that, that just cuts you to the core. Well, that's true too. Cause I know my mom's going to come no matter what, but like my sisters, if I fuck them over enough, like they'll, they'll, they won't show up when I need them to, you know, I think the sibling love is pure. It's just as pure as a parent's love, but it's, it is conditional, right? And it is like when you fracture that or you do something, I think it's a, it's a, the best definition is tough love. You know, that tough love that you always hear that should be implemented by a parent, which is hard as I'm a parent. So as a parent, I know that it's, it's, it's so hard to do tough love on a child, right? But if my brother, I don't love my brothers any less, but if they do something, I'm going to check them. Like there's a, there's a, there's checks and balances there, I guess is the best way to say it. I can't check my siblings. I'm the youngest of three. I have an older brother and older sister. They both check me. But if I did say, if I, if I ever did something to like make them actually cry and hurt them, I, that would hurt me a lot more than I would fill with my parents. And I have two young kids as well. I have a four year old boy and a seven month old little girl. Yeah. And, and I tell my little boy, I go, it's you and her man. Yeah. Someday, someday me and your mom will be gone. I don't tell them this. Yeah. I hope you do. That'd be awesome. I go, dude, I go, James, he's four. I like, James, it's you and Annie. Yeah. You look after her. That's all you got, man. Yeah. You protect her. You look after her. That's your little sister. That's your baby sister. Yeah. Yeah. I know. So obviously, you know, how you made that movie in a way that made me believe that. The maker of it. Had some kind of experience with addiction or love someone who is, which I think obviously there's you are one way or another, but I, yeah, I started so backtracking a little bit every year in Austin, I do a pro bono video for a nonprofit here in Austin. Okay. It's kind of like my way to get back. Yeah. Back in 2017, I was doing some pro bono videos for a nonprofit called Back on my Feet. And Sean was member of the year. And then after that, and then after that, he calls me and he's like, man, I'm going to run this on Jamar Chow Rays. And at that time, I didn't know anyone that was going through addiction, but I was getting married at the time. And like I said, everyone, everyone knows someone that goes through addiction. So me doing the film on Sean and his family, it was kind of like a little selfish. It was like me learning about it as well. I didn't know anything about it. Yeah. I didn't know anything. I didn't, I didn't grow up with someone. Thank God. Um, but I was learning about it while I was making the movie. And, uh, and it was so eyeopening, not, not just to hear what Sean was going through, but what the, what his family was going through. Cause I went up there with my film crew to Young Son, Ohio, and I filmed and I interviewed his mom, stepdad, and the sister without him there. And I think that was the best decision ever. Hell yeah. Because they spoke openly. They said things that they never told him. Yeah. You know, I think it's very important that like, um, I think maybe they use the camera, the lens as the way just to like get things off their chest. Maybe talk to him through the lens. Bro, that and Sean and Sean ended up seeing it. And, and I think it's good. I think it's good therapy. You know, his sister didn't, his sister didn't want to, uh, be interviewed. That's what I was going to ask. Do they hesitant any of them? The mom and stepdad. No, they were all for it. Yeah. The sister, she was hesitant. And I didn't pressure her. I go, don't worry about it. You don't have to. I never want to pressure anybody to speak if they don't want to. Right. It's such a personal thing. Yeah. Um, and then the morning we were, we were driving over there. The mom called me. She's like, she wants to. Yeah. Great. I think it was awesome too, because you can tell like that was Sean was like her big hero growing up. Yeah. Right. Like most siblings, dude, you're younger, like I've got an older brother and two older sisters and like, you couldn't tell me anything bad about them growing up. They were the greatest thing ever. And, and they still are. Right. So, and you could tell like when she talked about Sean, how like she looked up at to Sean, right? Like Sean was a superhero. It was her super hero. Right. She was her superhero. Right. And then you could see the damage that he had done the way that she talked about it. Right. Yeah. Well, the, as I have three brothers and I have an older brother and it's as you get older, inevitably life is going to happen. Right. It just is name it, whatever. And watching your watching mom, dad, brother get humanized when they're held up on this pedestal to you. Mm hmm. That's tough. That's tough. And especially when they get humanized in a way that you're in this case Sean being an addiction, she probably really looked down on that. I'm just guessing. Like, no, that no sister sister sister, like, okay, you're superhero. You're human now, but not only are you human, but you're like doing drugs. So it's crazy because during that time Sean was going through his addiction. She was going through her for multiple years. So she was like 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. Yeah. 15, 16 is a long time. Yeah. Like people get it. Um, so he, he was her superhero, but he didn't became the villain. Yeah. Yeah. And like for a superhero to become the villain with a, with a young, a young girl in her pre-teens and teens, that's tough. Yeah. You know, and the film before was called a hundred miles to redemption. The name of it was actually called woke the monster. Oh, okay. Because yeah, because Sean, the pills he was getting after he got injured in Iraq, it like woke the monster inside of it. Yeah. Which the monster was the addict. Right. Yeah. But then we changed him the name to a hundred miles to redemption just because it was more, it was more positive. And we, and we wanted, there's lots of films on addiction and those and, and these films on addiction, they end in one or two ways. Yeah. The addicts either goes to rehab or they die. So we, we wanted to film and same with our new film, the brother, my brother's keeper. We want to film that not only shows the addiction story, but we want to film that also shows the recovery story. Hell yeah. Yeah. And the redemption story. Right. And how hard that recovery journey is just for the addicts, but also the family for sure. Cause like his sister was going through her own recovery. And I don't think a lot of people realize that. Yeah. You know, the addict goes through recovery and is always going through recovery. Right. Right. They're never, I learned this. I learned, I was like, oh, you're recovered. I've never thought about that. So like, I'm not recovered, dude. I'm recovering. Yeah. I can be recovering for five, 10, 20, 50, 90 years. Yeah. Whatever. I'm always in recovery. Right. The family's the same way. Yeah. So I always say I'm recovered. You say you're recovered. I do. Okay. Because I, so I went back and forth on this. We've talked about it some now. Now on the moron. No, no, no, no. It's everybody's different. Everybody's different. You're not wrong. So when I go to meetings, I still go to meetings often. Right. I don't go to a meeting so much anymore because I've never, I don't identify as an alcoholic, but I go to drug, drug meetings, like cocaine's anonymous, personal nothing on us, but I used to always identify as an addict. Well, I feel like if I'm recovered, I'm not an addict anymore. So I just say I'm a recovered addict because I feel like so if I was a prostitute before, right? Right. And I used to sell my ass for money, but I don't sell myself for money anymore. Am I a prostitute anymore? No, I was a prostitute, but I'm not a prostitute anymore. That's a good point. Yeah. So that's kind of how I've always looked at it, but everybody's different. Some people will say that I'm always in recovery and I respect that too. Sure. Right. Some people don't want to say that they're recovered maybe because maybe they'll, they'll, their ego will come back and they'll think, oh, I'm good now. Right. So that's, that's something you got to worry about too. And, and, and it's based on that, like, right, that, that's super ego, right? But I've never thought about the families going through recovery. I'm never, you just pointed that out to me and I'm an addict. I'm not supposed to be the moron. Yeah. You just showed something to me because I never thought about that. Yeah. I never thought, I thought like, I'm the one that went through all this recovery process, but the family probably goes through just as much if not more. Look, I'm not an expert on this stuff. I've only been, I've only been nobody is brother doing it with nobody. Yeah. But what I've learned and what I've seen. Um, yeah. The, the, the family, whatever the, whatever the addicts going through, the family's going through it as well. Yeah. Whether you see it or not. And they're always, they're always, they're always in a, if you're in recovery, they're in recovery. If you're doing drugs, they're doing drugs, not per se, but you know what I mean. You know, what's funny is when I go back home, like for Thanksgiving or Christmas, when I go to the bathroom, I come out like after 30 seconds, right? And my family will say something about it. They're like, see, you used to stay in there for 20 minutes because I would always go in there and get high. So I always make it a point that, Hey, I'm going to take a piss. I'll be right back and I always let them know, Hey, I'm out. I'm not in there anymore. But yeah, but that's, that's good though. That's funny. Like, and I think that's so, I love the fact that you do that. I think that's, and, and you don't feel ashamed or embarrassed to do that. Because I think a big thing, especially in our society today, um, whether it be America, Europe, Australia, whatever, anyone else, society that is dealing with addiction, everyone, there's a stigma to like feeling ashamed and embarrassed to talk about it. Sure. Yeah. And that's why like we try to do what we do as filmmakers, um, and use the medium of film to, I don't want to say break that stigma because that's, that's like pie in the sky, but let's say fight the stigma. Yeah. Try to fight the stigma. You should not feel ashamed and embarrassed because you have a disease. People with cancer feel ashamed and embarrassed because of cancer. No, great point. But, but, but the family member still suffers with the person that has cancer. 100%. No. So like, shouldn't addicts feel ashamed and embarrassed because of an addict? No, they shouldn't. They should talk about it. Yo, I'm a fucking addict. Yeah. I have addiction problems. I need this. I need that. I tried to stop. I can't fucking stop. Mm hmm. Like, like, help, like, help me. People that have cancer, they go get, they go get treatment. They go get help. They go get help. They get treatment. Yeah. You know, and the family's with them the whole time. Yeah. Addicts should be the same. It's no different. Yeah. But there's a, there's just a fucking stigma to it because people, there's that debate where like, oh, you're doing it to yourself. You can stop if you want. It's a mental thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a mental thing, man. Some people are born with it. Some people are not. And, and, and, you know, and I've learned that's because and Sean's told me this as well, addiction, it doesn't care if you're black, white, Mexican, yellow, yeah, green. Yeah, doesn't matter. It doesn't, they don't give a fuck. Not prejudice at all. If you're rich, poor, medium class addiction doesn't give a fuck what you are. Yeah. If it wants to get you, it will get you. Yeah. It's like cancer. Right. And so, you know, I think the best thing to do is just talk about it. And that's what you guys are doing. And, and that's what you guys are doing. And that's what Sean's doing on IMDb. Well, look, that's what you did. That's what you did. That's what you did. And that's what I inspired you to do as well through my, through my, my, my films. Well, you did in that one beautifully. And I want to get into another one here in a minute, but you are currently trying to make that a feature movie. Right. Yes. So Sean, so like we really tend to. So like I said, I funded 100 miles to redemption, which is not a good move for any film. Well, I'm glad you did. And my wife's not my look, my wife, she, she loves it. She's happy with me. She doesn't want me to do it again. She knows why I did it. You should not fund films yourself. Yeah. They're expensive. So when you do fund a film, you get in the can, you edit it, you, you thank God it's on Amazon Prime and some networks. You're not going to make money on it. Yeah. And I will never make that money back and I'm fine with it because we didn't have the money to market it. We don't have the money to market it. But that film, it did what I wanted it to do. Yeah. Sean, Sean, I think we, I think we got on Amazon Prime back in 2021 or something like that. And so Sean still gets messages today, like from random people. Yeah. Hey, I just saw this film, which I don't know how they found it, but don't market it. Um, I saw, I saw this film and like, thank you so much. It, it helped me. Yeah. That's exactly what we wanted that film to do. Yeah. And so that inspired me to kind of take that, take that project and write a narrative script on it. So I wrote a, I wrote a narrative feature film based on a hundred miles to redemption. It's called my brother's keeper. My brother's keeper is tattooed across John's chest. But it's at several meanings. Yeah. So I made, so I wrote that called my brother's keeper. I'll plan what that is to get funding, to get some bigger name actors on board. Kind of make that like, beautiful boy with Steve Carell, which is and, and, and Timothy, which is freaking amazing. Yeah. Then his back. I don't know that I've seen that. It's with Julie Roberts. So good. No, there's a movie on Netflix. It was a little, it was a great festival movie at South by back in 2018. My wife actually saw it and told me to watch it. It's called six balloons. It's currently on nest. It's currently on Netflix. It's a great movie. It's got James Franco's brother in it. Dave Franco. It's a great brother and sister relationship. So it's kind of like that as well. But with my brother's keeper, we want to film it in the style and the tone of the wrestler. Yeah. So like we want it to be a lot more grittier and more intense than these other addiction movies, but also we want to show the recovery side of it and we want to show the redemption side of it. For sure. That's what Sean running a hundred miles comes into play. Yeah. Yeah. So right now we're trying to get that funded. Yeah. We're looking for financing funding and some brand integrations to get that off the ground. I hope to start shooting that in June of this year and we'll see what happens. Where do you, where do you, who do you reach? I'm sorry. Who do you reach out to for funding on? So is that something we want to do eventually is make a movie about addiction to Wow. I love it. That's something we've, we got, he's going to be a phenomenal director one day. And then I'll get, I'll get you. If we get funding for this film, my brother's keeper, I'll get you on set. We'll do it together. Dude, he's going to be great. Yeah. But that's something that we've talked about this year or next year doing a movie, him writing a script or something about that. But do you just go to like, where do you go? Because I heard you say you don't want to fund it yourself and that's something we thought about doing. You don't want to fund it yourself. If you have the means to fund it yourself. Sure. Yeah. You want to, you want to do it. You want to do it two ways. Financing a film and distribution of the film are the two hardest things. Look, you, you as a filmmaker, I'm only as good as my team. Like I never want to be the smartest person in the room. So my job as a, as a producer or director is to hire people smarter than me. Yeah. And convince people smarter than me to work with me. Yeah. I've been pretty good at that. I can do that. Yeah. But like, as long as I have people smarter than me and more talented than I am, I'm good. So you're only as good as your team. Get the right crew, get the right people behind you. That's not as hard as getting the funding and distribution. I bet. You got it. You got to convince people with, with funding to, with money to believe in your project before you make it. Mm hmm. And no matter like how good you are, like it's, it's a tough thing to do. Yeah. And then distribution side. Look, uh, sales agents and distributor and distributors, they always looking for name talent, name, talent, name, talent. Um, I want Alexander Ludwig and my brother's keeper. Nice. Um, distributors and sales agents like his name's not big enough. I'm like, are you kidding me? Yeah. He's amazing. He's great. And so at the end of the day, sometimes as a filmmaker, you need to be like, okay, I'm going to listen to the sales agents or I'm just going to say, fuck you. And I'm going to do it my way. Yeah. Right. I'm going to do what the actor that I like. Mm hmm. And so like, and I think there's a fine line you need to play. There's a ballot. You always have to play the game. You always have to play the balance. Yeah. And I think Alexander Ludwig is definitely in that balance. I think for the budget that I have that I want to make this movie with, I don't want to make this movie for a high budget. I want to make this movie for the budget that I have. Mm hmm. Because my main goal is to one, make a great movie that will invoke emotion and people and will tell the story that I want to tell to I want to make my investors and money back. Mm hmm. There's a lot of unsavory producers out there. Mm hmm. That kind of, man. Yeah, I'm going to say it. They're used car salesman. Yeah. They're just they're going to sell you a bill of goods. Yeah. And you know, and then they're here one day and go on the next and I've invested in films before and so like I've been on that side. So I know how it is as an investor. It sucks. Yeah. It sucks when you're taking advantage of it sucks when the producer sucks. So you have to invest in the producer and the director that you feel confident in. And so you want you need a, you know, you just need to be a genuine and honest kind of producer and director and and and and get to and get your investors and money back. Yeah. That's that's the goal. And that's why I want to make it at the budget. I do. Well, because I believe that for this budget and for that talent I wanted this film not only can we make an amazing film, we can we can get our investors and money back. And that's the most important thing. Absolutely. Well, look, anybody out there that is watching this whenever it comes out. If you want something to believe in go watch a hundred miles of redemption and tell me that that does not belong as a feature film and with its own. A better narrative around it, right? Like a movie to be made around that. You tell me that because it's the first thing I thought of at the end of that movie was this. This is more than a documentary here. This is so in the documentary, I showed it through Sean's perspective, right? Mm hmm. In my brother's keeper. I kind of flip the script and I and I show it through his sister's perspective. Nice. So his sister is telling the story of her brother going through his addiction and how it affected her. Beautiful. And so not only do we see what Sean went through, but we should see what sister went through as well. Beautiful. And I think that's so important. Maybe the most that might be, I mean, I'm just trying to think that might be different, more that might be more different than anything that's ever been made about addiction is from that perspective. Maybe that that's that's our goal with this because we just felt it's. Yeah. Yeah. Just like I said, I want I wanted to take a different, a different lens to it. Right. Well, that is, that is something I have the utmost faith in you to do bridging on 100 miles of redemption. My brother's keeper, which please get that made. I want to talk to you about the empty chair. Oh shit. That one's crazy. Holy shit, dude. Like I watched that the other day after we had spoke on the phone. I went and thank you for paying 299 dude. I paid the 299. I was like, look, and I went into that thinking it was a movie. I was like, oh, I just bought a movie. I've like got my popcorn and shit ready. Like I'm getting ready to like, you know, be in for a long ride here. No, no, it's okay. No. The empty chair also needs to get fucking made so I can finish it. Holy shit, dude. I was like on the edge of my seat. I'm like, I need another one. I need it. I was, I was going to go. That's the goal. That would have been your, are you trying to do that in a series? Yes. Style. Yes. So the empty chair, I mean, do you want me to give the whole background to it? Fuck yeah. Like I want to know because dude, it's insane. Like it says horror. True crime, true crime. Yeah, but on the, on the thing it says horror in psychological thriller or something. What, which one did you watch? Did you watch an Apple TV or Amazon Prime? Amazon Prime. Okay. So that's what it said up there and I'm a horror guy. Look, I got Pennywise and stuff on my arm. So like for sale. So horror is like my shit, right? And so I was like, okay, I'm sitting down and I'm like, man, there's nothing really. There's a lot horrific about it. Yeah. But it's not horror. It's not. It's not. It's more true crime. And we actually flipped true crime on its head with that one. So instead of following the serial killer and trying to like catch a killer, it's more about the, the victim's perspective and the mother of one of the victims, keeping America's most prolific serial killer in prison. Yeah. So this is a true story. Yeah. So the empty chair came to me. I was born on August 11th, 1982. And the front page of the newspaper was Coral Eugene Watts. He was, he confessed to killing 13 women in Houston, Texas. And later was found that he alluded to killing more than over a hundred women across America. He's America's most prolific serial killer. Nobody knows about this guy. Is he the I-45 killer? That's not him. Nope. Okay. He, this guy, I'm telling you, nobody knows about this fucking guy. This guy killed more people than Bundy, Dahmer, Gacy, combined. Yeah. And no one knows about him. And I don't know the fact that no one knows about him. He was going to be the first serial killer ever released from prison. Back in the eight, back in the eighties and nineties, there was a law in Texas and there's a law called mandatory release. For every good day you serve, you get two days off. And so Coral Eugene Watts, he started killing up in Michigan back in the seventies. Authorities in Michigan suspected him of being a serial killer. They drove him out of town. He fled to Houston, Texas. He got caught and he killed a bunch of people in Houston, Texas. He got caught in Houston, Texas from drowning a victim in her bathtub. One of the victims, uh, my Linda Aguilar was bound with her hands and feet. 18 year old girl jumps off her second story balcony. Doesn't know she's going to live or die. Just jumps, survives, gets the cops. The cops come. They catch Cor Eugene in the process of killing these two women. The net, the downstairs neighbor, uh, at revives Lori. She saved her life within three seconds of nuts. And so then Coral is arrested. He does a plea bargain. He pleads to 60 years in prison for burglary and salt. If he shows the authorities, the missing bodies of three other victims. And so all the victims, families back there was like, okay, we'll take the plea bargain because he's going away to prison for 60 years. You know, that it's not justice, but at least he's off the streets. Right. You know, um, they didn't know about a law called mandatory release. That was for every good day you serve. You get two days off. That's crazy. Cole was going to get he was, he was going to be released in 20 years. And he said, when I get out of prison, I'm going to kill again. And Texas was going to release this guy. The mother Harriet, Samantha, uh, her daughter was Elena, Samantha. She was 20 years old, a few days before her 21st birthday. She was one of the victims. She was strangled and left in a dumpster. She was one of the victims. Um, her mother Harriet fought. She was the only person to fight for two decades to keep this guy in prison. She fought alongside Andy Khan, a crime, a crime victim, uh, advocate and he's in Texas at the time. Uh, he helped her, but, um, she fought for two decades to keep him in prison. She got this law overturned. She got the mandatory release law overturned, but core was already retroactively involved in it. So he was still going to get out. Yeah. So then she has to find a, a, a cold case to pin him on. So like they did this whole grassroots campaign. This was before the internet. They did all this stuff. Um, national media picked it up. Michigan DA's office found out about this. Um, they knew core Eugene Watts was connected to these cold cases. Uh, in the seventies in Michigan. And so, uh, Texas actually released him to Michigan. Um, and so if they lost, if Michigan lost that cold case, which your cold cases are very hard to win. Yeah. If Michigan actually lost that cold case, he would have walked out that day as a free person. Not, not parole released where it walked out that day. Yeah. So look, spoiler alert, it's in public. It's public knowledge. You can Google it, but he, he was convicted. And so, um, Harriet, Samantha, she actually, we had a funeral last Friday. Oh no, she was 91, but she's at peace now. She's at peace. She's with a daughter and a husband. It's the best thing. Um, she, she fought her fault and she won. She fucking won. And so, um, she kept, she saved so many countless lives. And so off a film, the writer of the film, he was 13 years old. It was his older sister and his mom was Harriet. And he actually became a screenwriter. He was really, he was in LA and, and so he, he's, he spent like the past few decades writing the script and he sends me 500 pages of the script. And I read it. I'm like, dude, you got him. This isn't this is a TV series. A limited, limited TV series. So we, we currently have eight episodes right now that follows his mom's journey of keeping fighting this dude. She actually doesn't really fight. Keep in him a lot. She fights the justice system. Yeah. Bro. What's that saying? So it's fucking heavy. It's the heaviest. So I didn't ramble on. No, you, it was the heaviest, like, what is it? 30 minutes? 22 minutes. Okay. Whatever. Like I, I remember just sitting there and the, what you just said, the girl that's bound. Yeah. You're in that room with her and watching her jump over the ledge. Some other stuff's going on. Watch it. Pay the two 99 and fucking watch it. I didn't want to leave that room. Like as a filmmaker on the lens, I don't want to, I don't want to. That's what I wanted to ask you. Like what the fuck is it like filming something like that? Because that was like the most chilling fucking scene that I can really think of. And I'm a horror guy. Like I love that type of shit. This was, it was a horrific scene. Good. I got you. Cause we show nothing. But that's what, what, so. I'm a film, I'm a kind of a movie nerd. Jaws. You don't see them till the last fucking 20 minutes of the movie, right? But your grip the whole time, same kind of shit. Like it really was. You see nothing, but you're, you're getting everything. Like you, you can't. Yeah. You're not this goes, this goes back to me not being the smartest person in the room. Yeah. It's all about my crew. So my DP, um, he tells me to watch this movie, a ghost story, which is nothing like this movie is like, watch this movie, a ghost story. And there's a scene in it where they sit on, they sit on this one frame for two, like about two minutes, which is, and nothing happens, which is a very long time. Yeah. And film. Um, and I just, I loved it. I loved it. I was like, that's what we need to do. That's what we need to do. We need it. And like, I go, what was happening to her roommate? That was happening to roommate. We were telling the story at that scene. We were telling the story of what Melinda was going through. Now what her roommate was going through, what Melinda was going through. So we went to, I wanted the lens to, to focus on what she was going through and what she was hearing and what she was feeling. And that's when all that music and that pump and my, my, that tier rolling down her fucking right, dude, it was so good. She's just sitting there and she's pretending to be knocked out. And you, and yeah, well, yeah, no, but she, you just see the tier pour over the bridge of her nose and I'm like, oh my God. I read, I read reports on what the real Melinda Aguilar went through in real life. She, when her roommate was, she was 18 years old and when her roommate was being drowned in the, in the next bedroom and she, and she was bound and she knew she was going to be killed next and she had to pretend to play possum. What was she going through? Yeah. Well, what, what, like as a filmmaker, you, like, you need to know your subjects on such a personal level. So like, I really want to know, like, I tried to like, um, direct my, my actress is like about this and my actor, Olivia Tobar, she was a young actor, she's going to be a superstar. She's so talented. No one, no one knows her as well, but she's going to watch out for her. She's amazing. Um, it's like, what, what, what do you go through in that situation? How do you play possum? And Melinda Aguil, the real Melinda Aguilar credits, she doesn't like to speak about this. And we don't pressure her. She, cause she doesn't credit herself. She credits everything to God. She goes, God was the one that got that, let me play possum. God was the one that picked me up. God was the one that let me jump off that balcony. And like, I think that's so amazing. I mean, getting back to addiction, you know, to go through recovery and to go through your own redemption, you know, you have to have the higher power. If you believe in God, look, I'm a religious person. I definitely believe in God. Me too. But whatever you believe in, you know, I love addicts. They have, they always believe in a higher power. There's not to be God. It can be whatever. As long as it's a higher power. It's got to be something bigger than you. Something bigger than you. Thank you. And so like, that's what Melinda Melinda Aguilar. Something bigger than her. Let her jump off a two-story balcony with her hands tied and feet. Yeah. Like you're not, you're not landing well. You're that's there's no way to land great in that situation. She was 18 years old. Bro. I mean, I could not do that at 42 years old. Well, that 22 minutes or let's that six minutes, seven. Well, I don't even know how long it was, but that, but that. Opening scene is just fucking intense, dude. And I, then you get a little bit of the picture of the story of what's going on. Then it cuts to the mom and the dad eating at dinner. Right. And then you see the empty chair. It needs to be made like that. That has to be made. And I'm saying that for me, make it for me. Oh, yeah. Fuck everybody else. Like this needs to be made for me. I need $10 million. Yeah. I need $10 million. Give this man $10 million so we could make the rest of these episodes so I can watch this selfishly, but just fucking blown away. Thank you, man. Yeah. Thank you. I mean, I think that's like at the end of the day as, as, as a filmmaker, you know, you just try a, a, a voc emotion. You know, you want people to feel emotional. I'm like, like these days, everything's being remade. Yeah. They'll make the, instead of a green Hulk, they're making a red Hulk. Yeah. You know, like it's all like these quick, quick fixes. Yeah. Like quick entertainment fixes. Mm hmm. The type of films I really like inspire to make and I want to make all those films are like a voc emotion where after you watch them, you're like, Holy shit. You feel something. Feel something deep. You know, it's like Shawshank, Reprimsion, whatever happened to those films. Yeah. Why don't we make those anymore? Yeah. You know, there's so many others out there, so many others out there. Why don't we make those films anymore that make us actually film, film something like, don't get me wrong. I love the action flicks. I love, I love, I love a quick fix. My wife watches home all the time because she wants to shut her mind off. Yeah. But like the films I like to make are just like, just on a very deep. The feel good ones. Just a deep, I want, I want people to feel something. You know, the slow pace, more, they have more heart and depth to them, but I want people to think I want people to like the type of films I make. Don't, don't come home and think you can flip it on and watch it and get it because you can't. Yeah. You actually have to watch it. Yeah. But that's the stuff I like to watch. Yeah. Me too. I mean, I like it all. Like I do think there's a time and a place for your brain to shut the fuck off and I want to watch Bruce Willis. Yeah. Die hard. I mean, every Christmas. Yeah. Come on. Let's go. Right. Like I want to watch a silly Kevin Hart movie. I want to watch super bad. I watched Happy Gilmore. Oh, yeah. That's whatever. Yeah. The Sandler flicks are all just amazing for that. But watching like thought provoking stuff just doesn't quite happen the same way anymore. So I do want to rewind the clock a little bit to a hundred miles to redemption. Sure. And so before we get into that, before I get into that question, I want to know what is your what is that your creative process in making a movie? What are what are you? How do you how do you make a movie? How do you make a fucking movie, man? Like, I guess that's the best way to ask that question. That's a great question. I think for every filmmaker is probably a little bit different. You definitely have the technical side to it. But for the creative side, for me personally, it's all about the subject. I never want my opinion or my views or my feelings to be influenced in my films. My films are not about me. They're about the subject I'm focused on. That's a documentary or that's a narrative. So it's all about the subject. So I really want to get to know my subjects. I really want to get it. It's very psychological. I was a psychology major at St. Edward's University here in Austin. I thought I wanted to do psychology. I didn't end up traveling around the globe for seven years with no money and just having fun. And then I went to film school in Australia. But but I think it all comes back the way I look at the creative process. It all comes back to the roots of the psychology of things. I want to get inside my kid's head and I want. I want to portray them as real and as authentic and genuine as they are. And I want the audience to see that. And how hard is that to do to get into your subject's head? Like it can't be easy. Well, it's not it's not actually to be quite honest. It's not that hard. I think if you're just if you're honest with yourself and you're genuine, I think people pick up on that. And they'll be open with you. So as long as I approach something with a full heart, you know, I don't want to say full heart, like clear eyes because that's from a finite lies. Yeah. No, but like in all honesty, I do love that saying if I approach something with, you know, very genuine and authentic. And this is why I want to tell the story and I approach my subjects and I go, I love your story. And this is the way I want to tell your story. And this is the way I want to film you, whether it be a documentary or a narrative. I it's very easy. It's very easy because people open up to you again. You know, the hardest part is the financing distribution. But I think making making the actual film with your crew and your subjects, if you're just honest with yourself and you're honest with them and you have good intentions, people will open up to you because I think people at the end of the day are just inherently good. And they believe in the power of storytelling. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I just I would have no idea how to get a movie off the fucking ground. Right. Like and that it almost makes too much sense. Okay. So start with your subject. Start with your subject. Start with what do you want to do? What type of story do you want to tell? Right. Who's your audience? Who's the audience you're telling this to? Right. Put all all that into a treatment. You know, like what like how how do you see this film visually? Yeah. What are your visual comps? Like I said, for my brother's keeper, I really love the wrestler. I loved how they film that. It's very the way that the camera moved was like the human eye. It was very floaty. Yeah. Authentic, very raw and genuine. Um, and so like, no, no, no, no, your, uh, know your visual style, right? Know your music style, music and film are so important, you know, cause that enhances the emotion that you that you're projecting to your audience. Unless you're doing the Dahmer flick, the Dahmer series monster. No music. Dude, there's no music. Now was a choice they did and good for them. Fucking so that's the first time I ever saw that and I watched it a second time. It was like, why did this creep me? I know the story. Like, why did this creep me out so bad? Like it creeped me out so much worse than what it should have. It should have creeped me out. Yeah. But it creeped me out way worse than it should have. And I went back and watched it a second time and was like, there's zero music in this, like it's just. There it is. It's just, it's, it's, it's funny you say that because we, we had that. We had the same thought process to do for them to chair when you're, when the camera's sitting in the room and looking at the hallway after a chord you didn't watch drags, uh, Lori's body out of the, out of the hallway. Yeah. We're like, man, this works so well without music. But then I'll come. I made the mistake of hiring a composer that's too good. My, my, my composer is called his name's Carson. Oni. He's Peter Berg's composer. Okay. He's too good. Yeah. I, I, like, I had to leave his music in because it was like his music was pumping my fucking heart like Red Bull. Yeah. You know, like, and without them, and without the music, I wasn't getting that. And with his, with his music, I was like, Oh my God. Yeah. And so that's why we left his music in, but like it's funny, like every director, every situation, every scene is different. And like the reasoning behind every scene is different. So as a director, you really need a hyper focus in on like, why do you want it this way? What is it making the audience feel? And at the end of the day, do you personally like it? Yeah. Yeah. So when now the question that I wanted to ask is what impact and how do you look at addiction after making some, not having experience with it yourself or direct experience, but after the fact, after making something like that, what impact and how do you view an addict or addiction differently before and after? One word, man, inspiring. Yeah. I think addicts are extremely inspiring. What they go through, what they're capable of overcoming. I could never do. Thank God I don't have addiction. Yeah. You can't do that. I don't think I don't have the strength to do that or the mental capacity to do that. So I think like if you're an addict and you're going through recovery and you're actually doing it, you're a lot stronger than what you think you are. Addiction does not make you weak. I think it makes you strong. Yeah. As long as you can take that and rechannel it. If you can rechannel that addiction into something positive, whether it be running on your miles, whether it be writing a paper, making a movie, sure, sure. Whatever the case is. Take your addiction and channel into something else rather than drugs and alcohol. You're going to be a lot stronger than most of society. And that's why I think it's inspiring. I think addicts are very inspiring. We say that a lot on here. Some of the smartest people I've ever been around are addicts. And it's because the way that their mind works, like when they're trying to get drugs, they will come up with some crazy, amazing ways to figure out how to get this to work, right? And I always say like their mindset that they have whenever they get sober, if like what you just said, we say it all the time, if they can channel that to something positive, they can, they can do some amazing shit. Yeah. Like they can do some amazing stuff. This, if I was not a drug addict, I would have not built this. This would not have happened. This podcast would not have happened. Had he not been an addict for 10 years trying to scrape. I've never done it. And, and, and I didn't, I didn't want to say jealousy, um, because I would never, I would never want that. Like, look, no one wants their kids or themselves to be an addict. For sure. But at the end of the day, like I said, if you can channel that into something amazing, addicts do the most amazing things. So there is a little bit of the jealousy. Yeah. Yeah. Because they all, I think they're very intelligent people. You know, something I've respected so much about a hundred miles to redemption is you didn't know how it was going to end, right? Like what, what I mean by that is you didn't know if Sean was going to finish this race. Yeah. Right. And we didn't know. Like you could have put all this together and then at mile 70, it's like, fuck, he got to pack it in. Cause he almost did. Right. He almost did. Were you worried? Were you worried about that? Very worried. Were you? Cause it got to a point. Cause it's not scripted. Right. It's not like you just followed somebody and you knew he was going to finish. There had to been moments in there. This is his first hundred mile race. That's his first one. It was his first 100 mile race and he did not train for it. Right. Yeah. And I think before that, what did he do? 62 miles is the most something like that. He was just still nuts. Fucking insane. But, but he, but also that I don't think a lot of people understand like he was, um, I think he was like 12 months sober from heroin addiction. Yeah. He was doing heroin for the past 17 fucking years. Yeah. And then 12 months after that, he decides to run a hundred mile race. That's nuts. And I'll tell you, people don't do that. I'll tell you this from when I got sober, about the first six months, maybe nine months, there was shit hurting on my body that I didn't like my back, my neck. Right. There was stuff that I probably had injured somewhere along the way, but I had been using drugs so much that I never felt them. And then when I got sober, I was like, holy shit. My like, my liver's killing me. Like my neck's hurting. So I know if he went through heroin for that long that he just wasn't running a race and hurting like he still had parts of his body that was not up to speed yet. So to speak. I mean, he came in, I think it was mile 67 or something like that. He came in and he's like, can't finish my back skill. Me and again, you know, as a filmmaker, your first priority is make to make sure everyone's safe. Yeah. Well, that's that speaks volumes of you because most people be like, no, you got to fucking finish. I didn't want to tell him. I did not want to tell him your mom and your sister are surprising. You got the you better finish fucking. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, Sean, I'm so funding this. You had the chamber that you can still say I'm in the doghouse with my wife. Like we got a fucking, you know, I want to say this shit. The thing that was going through my mind is like, okay. The edit, how are we going to make this to a film when you quit right now? Yeah. You know, I was like, okay, I can turn this. I can turn that. You know, well, at least he tried, but dude, there was this guy. Um, there's this guy all in black that came up to Sean and Sean. What? It was the name of a state Detroit Detroit. Sorry. The city. So and so there's this guy that came up to Sean, um, all in black and Sean tells us when you run a hundred mile trail race, sometimes you're alone. Sometimes you're in a pack. Sometimes you're just with one other person. And those times when you're with one another person, you and you're running a hundred miles deep into it, you divulge your whole entire life. The deepest darkest secrets. Yeah. And you build a connection within a few miles. Oh, I bet. And so this, and so Sean, Sean, Sean at six mile, 67, Sean's quitting and Detroit, this guy all in black comes up and says, uh, you remember Sean? We were just out there. You said, I got you and you got me and, and we've got to keep going no matter what happens in this and that. And, um, Sean's like, oh, my back's fucking killing me. Blah, blah. He's like, you know, come on, we're going to finish this thing together. And, and Sean was like, fuck. Yeah, you're right. And he went with this complete stranger and went back out on the trail. And then I think you hear me in the distance saying like, oh, walk it off. You know, take some out. Yeah. Yeah. But they, they did, dude. And then, um, and that was unscripted. That was very unscripted. Yeah. That was like perfect. That. So like I put that guy in my brother's keeper. I wrote him as a character. Yeah. But the type that I wrote him as the exact character as he was in real life as a fucking angel. Yeah. Because when Sean finished that race and a hundred miles to redemption, we never saw that guy again. We don't know where he went. I don't know where he went. Yeah. They finished the race together. But when you see Sean hugging his mom and sister, we try to find him later. He was gone. Yeah. I don't know where he went. Sean, I don't know where he went. Name's Detroit. Look, he is an angel, but we said we have his email address. We still say we keep in touch with him. Mm hmm. Um, but the way I wrote him into my brother's keeper, I wrote that exact scene the same way it happened. Um, I left it up for the audience to figure out what they want him to be. Yeah. They want him to be another trail runner part of the community just helping out another fellow trail runner. Do they want him to be an angel? Yeah. They could the audience can decipher what they want him to be. All of the above. I, I, I, it was a very, and it was a very, uh, angelic thing that he did. And in my mind, he was an angel. Yeah. Well, pulling as a filmmaker, making a documentary that's unscripted that you don't know how the outcome is going to go is a hundred mile race. First one, who knows how the fuck this is going to go. Right. Having something like that happen. Unscripted. It's got to be like the most magical film making like, like peace. It's like, I am meant to do this fucking film right now. I'm supposed to be here capturing this. Like it had to be like that kind of like your angel too. Yeah. For the film. And, and that, that was the biggest reasons why I just, I continued to self fund it. I had to. I had to, I had to, uh, I had to finish this. I had to finish that story. Uh huh. Cause like from, from, like you said, from, from that moment, um, from those unscripted moments that happened like that as a filmmaker, you, you, you have to, you have to see it through. Yeah. You have to tell the story. Something I learned in a meeting one time, uh, this dude I went to rehab with, he used to always say that coincidences are miracles when God chooses to remain anonymous. 100%. Right. And those like that's, that's a coincidence. That you can't tell me there's no such person as God. When Sean's trying to quit and just some random guy that he met on the trail is like, fuck that, we're doing this together. 100%. And you're in the corner saying, fuck yes, save this film, baby. Yeah. Save this fucking film. Well, save, save the film. You're not gonna take money on it, save this, brother. So as a filmmaker, a really good filmmaker, and I can't wait, God damn it, get the empty chair made. I can't keep. I can't stress that to you enough. We're gonna figure that out. Um, what's your favorite movie of all time? Man, it's a tough question. People ask like, yeah, it's a tough question. Yeah. See, so I'm going to talk to you about this after you give me an answer. It's scary and pick a just regular. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw out of, I'm gonna throw out a few real quick. Uh, it's not that easy because so many different genres. Um, look, I love Shawshank, every dimension for what it was and for what it is. Um, and for the fact that it's a movie filmed in a prison, but it's not a movie based in a like based on prison. Right. Um, it's, it's awesome. It's so well done. Like it literally takes you like you're one of the people in the movie. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, you know what he goes through, you know, it's really good movie. I think it has a really neat segue or tie into addiction too. In this, when Morgan Freeman's giving that, that monologue in the middle or towards the end of the movie after Brooks dies. Yeah. And he sends in the letter to the guys, right? And Morgan Freeman talks about it. He goes, look, first you come in here and you hate it. Then you learn to deal with it. And then you can't live without it. It's like, it's funny that you say that cause I was thinking about that the other day I thought about like, but I've thought of, it was like, man, it's like your addiction, like being institutionalized within yourself. Yeah. 100% yeah. So I was like, I wish you hate it. Yeah. Then you learn to deal with it. You can't live without it. Then you can't live without it. I love it. Then it's just a part of you. Yeah. You know, like it's them being imprisoned for their lives, their whole lives. But you learn how to, but you're not in print. You're only in prison as far as your mind wants you to be in. And he do frame not ever being in prison, like refusing the 20 something years to let him believe that he's a fucking prisoner. Yeah. Right. So. Oh, kind of like a two addict and a moron thing. Right. Like it was, I don't know why, but it was literally the other day when I was driving, I was just like, man, I was thinking about that Morgan Freeman speech and I was like, that's fucking exactly. What are the best speakers ever? Oh, dude, man, I'm glad I said that movie and not dumb and dumber. Look, it's also a good one. Not a movie. My daughter loves, loves dumb and dumber. Look, dude, there's, it's a great movie. It's, I mean, you're running around with your bro. Idiot self and your dumb yourself. Yeah, you're just out there with your bro and they's taking some chances. So I always, I asked that question to a lot of people, a lot of my friends. And I always like, you know, I, well, here's what I don't like because I think everybody's favorite movie is maybe not the best movie that you've ever seen. Oh yeah. Yeah. Your favorite movie is usually one that's pretty silly and tied into like your childhood in some form or fashion that you couldn't stop watching over and over again. And now you watch it and you're like, yeah, it's pretty silly. Mine was Billy Madison. Mine's American Pie. There you go. I love it. Right. So mine's the Goonies. Yeah. So like I'm doing this arm and like movies that I love. So like Michael Myers, Pennywise, I have a Goonies tattoo back here. So I just, I feel like people always try to overthink that and they think about it through their adult lens where it's like, but when you're a kid, it was like, you know, you watch the karate kid on a fucking loop. You know, you know, you watch the Goonies on a fucking movie. And when we watch movies back then you had to rewind the fucking VCR tape. Yeah. And you just my mom, my mom took Billy Madison away from me because I started acting like him. Yeah. Yeah. She's like, no more. No, dude. Hey, look dude. We could all use a little bit of Billy Madison in us. We could. Why not? Who's your favorite? Who's your favorite actor? You have a favorite actor? I do. I do. I have a few favorite and favorite director. Yeah. Peter Berg is my favorite director. Okay. Not even close. That's a good one. I don't have to think about that. I love Peter Berg. Everything about him. Favorite actor. I have a lot of favorite actors. I love KC Affleck. Yeah. Love him. Love him. Love him. Yes. My favorite actor is not going to be the main, you know, A-list celebrities. They're going to be. No, they're always. To be quite honest, the empty chair we had Robin Lively. Yeah. The empty chair. And she did great. She is just so, man, she's so powerful and real and authentic. I really love, I want to do more stuff with Robin. That was honest. It was, she was just an honest actor. You could, you could tell that she was probably a pleasure to work with. She was the best. I was so nervous to work with her. My best. Because it was like my first time directing an actor like her. And I don't like to be the director that directs. I like to be the director that collaborates. Yeah. And so, uh, she was, uh, she was such an amazing person to work with. And, and, and she made me more confident and made me, me more relaxed. Um, and it was just, and I think that's what made it for like a better cause it cause like, look, directing. Yeah. You're, you're at that calling the shots, but it's not just your vision. You know, it's your vision that you express to other creatives and other talented people. So then it becomes everyone's vision, you know, is, and then it's up to you as a director to kind of lead that team to make sure things stay on track. You know, so like my, all my job was as a director, the way I see it was, Hey, this is the emotion and this is what, what, what I think we should go for. What do y'all think? Some people like, I like that, but what if we did this? What if we did that? Yeah. And then it's up to me to say that's a good idea or maybe no, but let's take that and go more this way. And so, um, but to have, but to have that, uh, insight and to, to know a story so well in your own mind, to be able to take, uh, co, to be able to collaborate with other creatives, that's a DP if that's an actor, if that's an editor or, or a composer or PA, whatever. What's a DP? Director of photography. Okay. Okay. I was thinking double penetration. Yeah. They do that. They do that as well. Yeah. When you said, I didn't want to say it. I was like double penetration. They would definitely do that, but you have to pay them over time. Yeah. And so if the, if the investors are willing to do that, then your goal and, um, some investors or whatever. Yeah. Harvey Weinstein was all in there. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That shit. Yeah. Well, that, that speaks volumes to you too, because I'm a big believer that two heads are better than one. Sure. Five heads are better than two. Yep. And when you have good people in a room with good ideas, like, yes, let's take a little bit of this and a little bit of this and a little bit of this and we can make it so much better rather than I'm sure some people get in there and say, no, I just want to do it this way. I just want to do it this way. And some, and some directors are talented enough to do that. Mm hmm. I'm not that talented to do that. I know, I know my strengths and weaknesses. Yeah. Look, I think if you look at, uh, um, oh man, there's some director. What's his name? Tarantino. Yeah. Tarantino is a font. Yeah. It's talented enough to be like motherfuckers were doing it my way. Yeah. I'm not that talented. I'm not that guy. Yeah. My, like I said before, my talents rely on my team. Mm hmm. Um, I'm, I feel like my talents rely in taking good ideas, elaborated on that or coming with a good idea and infiltrating other good ideas and being able to stay on track with a good team. Yeah. Um, that's kind of what I feel like I'm good at. Yeah. Um, and having some going back to Robin, having someone like Robin come in, um, and being comfortable to do that with, with us. That was like I said, it was just so amazing. Yeah. And that capacity. That's, that's awesome. That's really cool. And you're a, you, you struck a hard chord with Peter Berg because he just did American prime evil. Dude, like, uh, my lovely girlfriend over here, she had to sit on her fucking phone and listen to me watch American prime evil. Like she had to go to bed to murder and fucking scalping. I don't, I don't put my wife through that. I go, I go, Kelsey, I'm going to watch something right now. You're not going to like, yeah. She goes, okay. She goes in her, the bedroom, watches Hallmark. Yeah. She, you know, she deserves that. She deserves to like be happy and watch happy things. Not me. You're going to be in this with me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like some Peter Berg shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was incredible. So what do you like about, what's your favorite Peter Berg movie? Oh man, that's a, that's a tough one. Um, they're all, they're all so, they're all different. I just, I love, I love his music. Um, I love his composers. Um, and I love the way he, uh, he, he uses the camera and the lens to film his subjects. Yeah. Um, I love lone survivor. I love Friday night lights. I love, uh, um, Deepwater horizon. Um, obviously American prime. Dude, fuck it. Like anything Peter Berg. Yeah. I don't like it. Like dude, the, Anything he directs, I'm going to like it. Yeah. If he's in charge of it and flex it, I'm going to like it. Dude. Friday night lights. I cry every single time I watch it at the, like dude, when the boys lose and Tim McGraw comes and slides that fucking ring on his kids finger. But like, it's just like, it's that emotion. I can't fucking do it every fucking time. I love that emotion. And I think honestly, I think Friday night lights is where it starts. Like anytime I want to get in like the mindset of that, that emotional, that feeling, I'll watch that music because I mean, watch that music. I'll watch that movie because of the music. But that music is fucking. It gets, it gets, it gets, it gets those emotions flowing. It gets me in that mindset. And then I can start writing. Then I can start creatively thinking about the stories I want to tell and how, I know how I want my characters to go through things. I mean, like again, I'm not, I'm not the type of director that will come up with the wheel. You know, like I'm the type of director that will take the wheel and I don't want to say enhance it, but we'll like put my own spin on it. Jesus Christ, no pun intended. But like I, I'm the type of director. I get inspired by other directors. Yeah. You know, Peter Berg inspires me. Yeah. The director from the wrestler. Ernofsky. Ernofsky. Yeah. He inspires me. A lot of directors will inspire me. Yeah. You know, and so that my composer, Carson, Oni, his music inspires me. My DPs, they inspire me. Like it's just, you know, it's just me, you know, around other creators. Kind of what inspires me as a director. And I think like honing that in and, uh, and then articulate articulating that vision back to them, you know, with your own story and with your own subjects, that that's the key. Yeah. Well, hope that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense, you know, even to this moron right here, man. Well, look, man, thank you so much for stopping by and, and talking to us and sharing with us and thank you for what you've done. Yeah. Like the movies that you've made, the show, the movie that you're trying to get made, it's, I mean, I think it's only a matter of time, dude, before you're need us for any part of it. Yeah, please. I love it. I love it. I'll come back. Yeah. If something ever blows up, I'll come back. Dude, started here. Hey, let's fucking go. So you are searching for funding. You are needing some funding. So how do people reach out to you? We got a lot of people that watch us. Yeah, they can. They can reach out to me. Uh, my, my Instagram is pipeline films or Andrew Shabay. My company is pipeline films.com. Um, they can, you know, shoot me a message on there. Um, we actually all a message and then reach out to me. But yeah. Yeah. We get anybody that we will get them right over to you. But man, we would, I mean, the, the, the main, the main thing I like to do is tell, is tell stories about real people. Well, you know, and the experiences that shaped them. Yeah. Cause I think everything reflects back into our lives. So yeah. Well, we want to help you in any way that we can do it to keep that flowing. So, um, what we've done to earn you sitting here on our seat is beyond me. Um, y'all do. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Dude, it's awesome. But keep, keep, keep the message alive. Talking about addiction, you know, it's so important. Yeah. Well, so important. Well, we will. And, um, I'll try to keep making films about it. Like you're going to sign the wall here in a minute. Mike, were you about to ask something? I was going to ask who your favorite actor was. My favorite actor. Yeah. Oh, geez. Man, I've got three Denzel Washington. Obviously. Yeah. Keanu Reeves. Um, I don't know how to say his last name is Jamon Hushan. He was in blood diamond. Oh, I love blood diamond. So he's also why did I not say blood diamond as my favorite movie? He's also in Avengers. Okay. Um, he's the, uh, he's always jacked up, but he's, he's a black guy in blood diamond. And you know what, you know what movie I really like and he was actually homeless at one time. Oh, shit. Mm hmm. He's actually homeless. He was, uh, he was homeless in his 30s. I think it was in his 30s and someone spotted him and got him to do a commercial. And then he started fucking doing movies. That's why he didn't come into movies until later in life. His name is Jamon Hushan. Kay. Is Hushan. Those guys, that's inspiring. Yeah. Yeah. You know who I really like and that movie, uh, Adam Sandler and Don Chilade and Rain on Me. Yeah. Have you all seen Rain on Me? Very good. So Adam Sandler and Spanglish, like I was just about to say. So like Sandler stands out to me as because of, um, uncut gems. Yeah. Like he's just, he can do whatever. Oh, he's, um, well, he showed in Spanglish that he can really, I love him. He can really do it. Do any of the only in Spanglish. Um, him and, he and Mentea and love Spang. And look, Jim Carrey, dude, like you talk about a fucking just do it all guy who started out as a goofball. Like he was, you know, hey, he's been turned a pet detective and then he starts doing the Truman show and like all these other crazy role, a man on the moon. I'm like, dude, this guy can fucking act. Like the power of film man. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Me too. Thank you. I have a dork in that, but I'm not a filmmaker, but, uh, also, you know what? If I get my brothers, keep it going. Let's get you all on set. Fuck yeah. Let's do one of these things on set. Yeah. No dude, we look, I was just about to tell you, I kind of end the same way, but when you come sit in that chair, you're part of our family now and you ever need us for fucking anything. We'll come running to help you out and the door is always open to you. You get something else going that you want to talk about and get out there. It's always going to be open to you. I appreciate that, man. I love it. Thank you guys. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you so much, man. Appreciate you. This is awesome. Two addicts and more on. We're out of here guys.