Pride Month Special: Conversion Therapy Is Abuse

This is exactly right. Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foote. I'm Melissa Malbranche. Today we're going to talk about Pride Month and also my mandatory tanning bedtime growing up. People being born without toenails, we're going to do a Pride Month special where we talk about conversion therapy. We're going to talk about how to curate safe spaces as a queer person and with queer people in your life. We answer all your burning questions from the DM, so stick around. I feel like you're hitting Iowa. No, it's Haitian flag day. It's Haitian flag day? Today. Today is the day. Shlaya's Fed Dujigapo? And so that's like Independence Day in Haiti? No, it's the day. So Independence Day is in January, but this is a part of the revolution. So the Haitian revolutionaries took down the French flag and they ripped it up. And there was a woman, her name was Catherine Florin. She made a new flag. So she ripped up the, you know, so the French flag is a tri-color red, white, and blue flag. And that was what was flying in what was Haiti, what became Haiti. And so she ripped it apart and made a new one. Cool. So that's what today is. I have to show you pictures of Ellen on Dahlia. Melissa has the cutest. Okay. So y'all know I'm not like a kid person. You can say that. But her, her nieces are really cute and really funny. And they say the messiest stuff. I told you what. Elena, so Elena said to me one day, this is my niece Elena. It was her birthday. And I was talking to her on FaceTime and we were talking about her party. And now did you have a good time? Yes, I did. And then I said, did you have a cake at your party? And she looked at me. The only way that I could describe the look that she gave me was piteous. Like she just looked at me and she was just like, that's to me. So have you ever been to a birthday party? And I was like, okay. She ate you up. She ate me up. She was, she was like, of course there was kick. It was a birthday party. Yeah. Have you ever done? Was this your first time? Also like almost feeling sorry for me. Clearly I have no friends and I've never been to a birthday party before. My auntie Melissa is on Skid Row. She's on the bread line. She doesn't have cake at her birthday. No. Like it is actually. Does she even have a birthday? It's so sad. I know. Yeah. Please, you know, thoughts and prayers, please reach out to Taty Missa because she doesn't have anyone on her birthday. She's got nothing. She's got nobody. Yeah. Of course I had cake on my birthday. I'm not. But the look was the best. She was like, okay. Okay. It sucks to suck. I know. So how are you? I'm good. You know, I feel like I fell off a skyscraper. Okay. That's concerning because why? Things are just getting crazy and wild in court. Are they? Yeah. Are you acting accordingly? No. And that's what I love. Ah. So, so it's like, I say that it's really tough and wild right now, but it's very invigorating. It's kind of like driving 100 miles per hour down the highway. Like it's exciting, but dangerous. And but the last thing you want to do is take your hands off the wheel. Like you really don't ever want to let go. So that's kind of what work is like right now. Okay. Let's get into a sidebar because I can sort of go in deep. So what I think is ICE and DHS expanded rapidly. They got a bucket of funding from the big beautiful bill. Thank you so much, Lisa Berkowski for that. And I think that when any organization expands rapidly, they're growing pains, right? So they had to hire a bunch of attorneys. We saw this with ICE officers who were literally shooting themselves in the butt because they didn't know how to operate a fire. Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the same thing is kind of happening in the litigation analog. So like a lot of these attorneys, it's the first time in court, they've never been in front of a judge before. It feels so incredibly irresponsible, right? And obviously I don't want this administration to be successful in any way, but if their goal is to be successful, they're not going about it the right way at all. Do you know what I mean? And I think what we're learning quickly is that like there are very real consequences for everyone who's working for DHS, including ICE officers, including the attorneys, and that we know that Trump will run you over with a bus for whatever. He's not coming to pardon you. No, he's not. So people are like, oh, I'm following the orders of my boss, but you, no matter what job you're in, if you're a lawyer, if you're not a lawyer, you have to have that gut check of like, am I actually breaking a law? Did I break the law? And is someone going to come bail me out if I actually get in trouble? Because they're not. Are they breaking the law? In certain situations, I mean, I can't speak about like DHS attorneys, but definitely ICE officers, yeah, we're getting prosecutions coming out of Minnesota right now. There are a couple of charges that have dropped against an ICE officer that shot a man from Venezuela back in January. This is not breaking news. This is going on for a while. But yeah, there have been a couple of situations where particular ICE officers who were misbehaving, who were not misbehaving, breaking the law, committing crimes, are now being prosecuted in state court and you can't get pardoned for a state crime by the president. Only federal crimes. Only federal crimes. So those lawyers, I bet those lawyers are arguing, oh, is a federal crime, let's move this to federal court rather than state court because then Trump can pardon them. So many times he not pardoned nobody. I mean, and again, I, you know, we say we've said this a lot. I just don't understand why the people who support him cannot understand that he doesn't have your back, right? He and he, and I'm not saying that's because just because I don't like him, which I don't. But I mean, he's never had anyone's back. The minute you do anything or the minute his back is up against the wall, right? He's going to throw you under the bus with joy. Maybe they know that maybe they don't. And if they do know that, I think everyone in the GOP is just lining their pockets with taxpayer dollars, right? We have reports that Trump has been, has enriched his wealth by the billions he's taking office. We have situations like Kristi Noem who awarded a contract to a friend's firm in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Like we have these situations where literally, flagrantly in broad daylight, politicians are taking taxpayer dollars through government contracts, the ballroom, the painting of the reflection pool, like all of these things, you know, all roads lead to Rome. So I think about that a lot. And then I think about people like Nancy Pelosi, who got totally raked over the coals for her husband's like stock trading history. Right. I mean, I'm not advocating that Congress people should be trading stocks. I don't think they should. No, they shouldn't. It's all wrong. And the problem is that the GOP has been making this point of like draining the swamp. Right. You know, we're going to set things right. There's been a lot of like crookedness, etc. Meanwhile, they are as crooked as it gets. Right. And I think, you know, if you think about it, doesn't have to be like monetary benefits that people are getting. It could be like trade. It could be the men that Lindsey Graham is catching by saying, hey, I'm a Congress person. Let's hook up on Grindr. When he hit someone up on Grindr, right? Right. You know what I mean? Like what does it say? Like that's a benefit and it's non-fiduciary, right? Right. Like that's a non-monetary benefit. And speaking of which, I would like to dedicate this episode to Lindsey Graham because it is Pride Month. This is the first. This is our Pride episode. So, I mean, and it is good to be out and proud. Is it not? It is good to be out and proud with the bubble wand at Disney World. So congratulations to you. Just out here looking daft. Lindsey Graham, we'll see you in the airport bathroom. So happy Pride Month. Happy Pride Month. It's June. It's June. It's June. What will you do? Well, I've been doing a Diva series that everyone loves. OK. Diva, it's Pride Month. Diva, it's Pride Month. You've got to kiss the same gender girly. Mom, turn off the channel. Let's get into your algorithm is showing. Let's talk about all the weird things showing up on our feed this week. Yeah. And since it's Pride Month, there is a lot that sort of, you know, aside from my Diva videos. Did you guys see that? I don't know who it was talking about. Congress really should be allowed to like if we want good Congress people in here, they work 140 days a year. They make just under 200,000. We should really let them trade stocks. Look, at least let them like engage in some stock trading so that they can continue to, you know, take care of their family. You know, and I wonder if the people who are in their areas, right, who are like, really? Yeah. Right. So could you imagine like there's a congressman or a senator from like West Virginia, which is one of the poorest states in the nation. And you're going to tell his constituents that that person should be allowed to trade because they don't make enough money after working 150 days a year and only making $200,000 when these people can't afford to keep bread in their pantry and, you know, shoes on their kids' feet. Do you know what I'm saying? It's so it's so insulting. And I but I wonder, though, why there are so many people who are willing to vote for people when it's so obviously not in their best interest. And they do it all. It happens all the time. So I heard something really interesting. AOC was talking about the new voting rights act and the Supreme Court decision and what just happened in Memphis, Tennessee. For those who don't know, they basically split up the district. In Memphis. And it's literally like a circle is the black community in Memphis. And they literally made it into little slivers going out of the circle into like eight slices of pizza. Imagine that. And like in the middle is the the black community. And so everywhere from the center of the pizza out to the crust is white ass bitches. And it's all white communities. So that way, this population of black people, each one of their votes gets diluted by that larger piece of pizza. So when I think about that and I hear people talk about, oh, well, how can people are voting against their interests? Sometimes that's not true. Sometimes people are voting in their interests, but the value and the power of their individual vote has been basically obliterated by gerrymandering. So like that helped me reframe it a little bit because I always thought that too. I was like, God, why does everyone in Maine? How come everyone is like voting for Susan Collins? And it's like, no, they just chopped the districts up into this little like hodgepodge. Mosaic that the votes don't have the same the power that they had if when they weren't sort of diluting the districts. And then there are some districts where one vote has the power of like four thousand votes, like one person's vote in this one weird neighborhood in a swing state. Super delegates, super delegates. Yeah, it's not just a menu item anymore. No, it is. It's not just a menu. All being super sized. Get the foot long super delicate at your local subway. It's like going to the movies and getting the bigger pop hook is the better value. They can't call it bread. What? That's the way they can't call it bread. It's it's like a bread product. Like they can't advertise it as bread. You know, who can I tell you something? Not bread. I am chagrined by this. Do you know chagrined? Do you know who loves subway? Andre. Andre loves subway. I Andre loves subway. When I like complain about the stuff that he eats, he's like, oh, no, I mean, it's it's it's it's fresh bread and it's vegetables. It's good for me. And I'm just like. And not just a sandwich, but not just that. It actually does not taste that good. So I don't understand. And he and he only eats it when I go away. So I'm going scrapbooking soon and he can't wait. He can't wait. He's going to shove. He's going to shove a foot long subway sandwich into his pie hole. He cannot wait for me to go away. He should he should FaceTime, Brad, because when I go away and I'm going away, Brad likes to get Panda Express. I can't stand that. Express Panda. It's like the mall from the 90s. Yeah, no, it's like it's like the. The what is it? The Italian garden. What is it? Oh, a Sabaro. No, no, no. The Olive Garden. It's like the Olive Garden, the Italian of Olive Garden. No, it's Andre also enjoys Panda Express. Like this is when I tell you chagrin. It's an illness. It's really. And I think about I ate a lot of subway when I was a kid. I mean, I was growing up on Long Island. I like to qualify my Long Island status by saying I saw the inside of a tanning bed when I was 15. Did you go tanning? I didn't go tanning. It was mandatory. Like it was. It was like came to you. Yeah, it was like it was like, you know, like a housing requirement. OK, if you live on Long Island, you have to in the 90s. Often were you tanning my sister took me tanning when I was 15. She was like getting the car. She got her license. She was like, get in loser. We're going to go. Your sister. You're going to look Puerto Rican by the end of the day. Literally, it was like the settings on the tanning bed are like Brazilian. It's like, you know what I mean? It was. Yeah, back in the day it was. I mean, now I'm sure it's more woke. The woke tanning beds. One, two and three. One, two and three. Extra crispy. The shade. Yeah, I remember being inside the tanning bed and being like, wow, it's really hot in here. I never thought about it. But yeah, so for the people who messaged me about the dot on my forehead, because I've been in tanning beds at such a young age, I get everything checked once a year. So please. When did you decide that you should stop visiting the tanning bed? It was pretty soon after. Oh, okay. Okay, okay. It wasn't. It was more of like, there's nothing to do on Long Island, suburban life, childhood. What else is there to do? Get in the car. Let's go change our race. You know, it's like, let's go change our skin color. I could say something. But it's the trans race ratio of us. So, oh my God, are we gonna get canceled? I know. Oh my God, it's Karen Kilgariff. I gotta take this. Uh-oh. We're canceled. Are we in trouble? It's canceled. Yeah, okay. It was fun. Yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity at least. Yeah, I have a friend of mine who's also Haitian American and she's to want to so bad. She's to want to go to a tanning salon just to see what they would say to her. She's like, we should go on April Fool's Day and just go in and be like, I want a package. And I never, I was always just like, I can't, I can't do it. I can't. But she wanted to do it so badly. She never did though. I have a cousin. This is truly insane. We're so off topic. Okay. But it's okay. Plus? Uh-huh. The show got canceled. Karen canceled us, so it's fine. She was born without toenails. Okay. All of them? All of them. Okay. It's just skin where the toenail should be. Is there a divot where the nail should be? A little bit. Okay. She just wanted to go to a nail salon. And get her toes, the skin on her feet painted. And just be like, red. See what they do. Wait, I'm back to this though. This is not something that I've seen on podiatry talk of like. I've never heard of this happening to any, comment if you don't have toenails because I don't know anyone else who was born without toenails except for my cousin. She's got fingernails? She's got fingernails. Normal fingernails. And just on all 10 toes. All 10. Okay. All 10, baby. Because I know a lot of people have like a wonky pinky toe. Yeah. Because the pinky toe is always kind of weird. And who needs it? Right. But well, you want the toe. You agreed so fast. You know, I don't need it. No, no, no, the nail, the toe you want. Wow. Wow. Okay. We've got a photo of the Tootsies. What is that called? And onigia congenita. Okay. If you have that, could you write us, let us know. I'm just curious. I'm actually now curious about that. I wonder, is it hereditary? Right. Like does one of her, do one of her parents have that problem? No. So is it like a skipped generation or something? I think it was like, she always hypothesized because her, she was like, well, I think my mom was probably smoking pot. It was like the 60s or 70s. I think she had other problems. I don't think it'd be the toes. Do you know what I'm saying? I think it'd be some, I don't think it'd be that. Dr. Malbrand, she's cocking it. I'm no doctor, but I'm like, I feel like it wouldn't be that. I don't think it's the toes. She came right at it. I don't think it's the toes. I don't think it's the toes. How old is your cousin? They're about? She's older than me. My age? Yeah, around your age. Yeah. She's lived her whole life. So totally a little bit off topic, but like the thing about, I know, the thing about parents, the thing about parents from the 70s. They were insane, right? Yes. My favorite picture of my parents is my mom is pregnant with me and my dad has like his arm around her like this. Okay. Only he's got a cigarette, blowing it directly into her face. And my mom is holding what appears to be a screwdriver. She's holding you as a baby? She's pregnant with me. She's pregnant with me. Okay. We'll bring a full circle. Okay. Yeah. Pride month. Okay. When I first figured out, I was super gay balls for boys. Okay. I got really drunk. How old were you? I was like 14, 14, 15. I got really drunk with my older sister. Okay. Barfed, but I was drinking screwdrivers. Full circle. Full circle. That's the end of the segment, folks. We did it. Thank you. I'm so glad we're here. And I haven't really had a screwdriver since. I mean, they don't taste that good. Yeah, I know. I was like, y'all are excited to drink this? Yeah. You know what it reminds me of? This is not as bad though. The first time I had an aparyl spritz. Ugh. When I tell you I was so disappointed. I did a thing about it up. But I was on vacation. We were in Sagh Harbour and I did a thing about it on TikTok and I was just like, you guys like this? They taste like robitussin. It is. It's gross. No, it's disgusting. It tastes like medicine. I mean, it's like Yeagermeister. Like anything, you know what I mean? It's like one of those things. Anything like that. Ugh, yuck. Tastes like cough syrup. Yeah, disgusting. Anyway. Every time I see someone drinking it, now it's nice out in New York. Anytime I see someone drinking an aparal spritz, I'm like, I know you're suffering. I know you're suffering. That is performative. Yeah, it is performative. And that's the thing, right? Do you... Come here. Yeah. Let us know. I mean, get in tight on her face. Do you actually like the aparal spritz? You can tell us. I won't tell anybody. I'm genuinely curious. Do you enjoy it? Is that like, oh my God, I'm going out and I'm going to get an aparal spritz and I'm super excited about it. I think you're making it up. Or are you making it up? And this is a safe space. If you want to tell, it is. You're safe with me. You're not safe with me. I'm just curious because it is the foulest thing. And if you think you like it, you're lying to yourself. That's my take. And it's... Yeah, no. You're lying to yourself. It does not taste good. Yeah, it is... A lemon cello spritz, however, refreshing and delicious. I love lemon cello. So good. So, so, so good. Let's take a break. Let's get into under oath. Let's talk about gay ass shit. Let's talk about being super gay and let's talk about... We've had a lot of gay content on this show, so I feel like Pride Month, we could probably just revisit some of the topics we were talking about. We can absolutely do that. Was there anything that you've been thinking about? Like maybe... Did you see that King Charles had said that the Labour Party was going to prioritise banning conversion therapy, which is wonderful. I mean, I don't know if you guys remember. A few episodes back, we had a conversation about conversion therapy and how damaging it could be. I mean, good for the UK. The one thing I will sort of just randomly ask is like, I was just saying to you before is that I didn't realise that the King could comment on things like that. I thought they were just figureheads, but he clearly is... I think we're in like old rules, new rules. He's getting involved. But I do think they're figure... They're supposed to be figureheads. They are. And like... They don't govern. Then they don't get involved. In politics, normally. And I mean, that's everything I learned from the Crown is basically she was like, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but you're fucking up. Was basically like what was the message, right? Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Because her kid came out so great. Is what's his name? Ran away screaming. Harry. Harry. Ran away screaming. Dead sprinting away from the White House. Now he lives in Calabasas. I think. Somewhere. Somewhere. Yeah, somewhere. I think so, yeah. Somewhere. I'm like the Pasadena. He's in a biker gang in Sausalito. I do think a lot about conversion therapy though, because I know people who've gone through conversion therapy. You told me. That sounds... And like I had said when we talked about it, I think obviously just the idea of you being sent away and somebody sort of forcing you to change who you are fundamentally is bad enough. But I think on top of that, the idea that your parents, the people who should love you the most, want to protect you the most, are the ones who sent you there. I don't know how anybody could forgive their parent for that. This has not happened to me, so I don't know. Your journey is your journey. But it just seems like. It's abuse. It's a form of abuse. It feels such. It feels such, yeah. And it's oftentimes so misguided because people believe in the church so much. They put so much faith in the church and the leaders of the church that they listen and believe them when they say, oh, this is what you should do. You're helping your kids here, right? And I will say that my friends who I know have gone through conversion therapy, I don't know, this is how I sort of relate to them is I kind of classify them in my mind and in my life as an abuse victim. They are still... They still have issues. Right now, like as 40-year-olds. Do you feel as though for the people that you know who have gone through it, do they recover? Do you feel like? Or do you think that is for the rest of their lives that they're going to be sort of like fighting uphill against this thing that happened to them? I mean, I don't know. I will say that like from just the few folks that I know not painting with a broom here, I will say a couple people that I know from my perspective, their relationship to their sexuality is a little bit more complicated than mine. It seems like they maybe struggled more with coming out, struggled more with like in order to love some of Rupal's as it's so cliche, but like in order to love someone, you also have to love yourself. And so I think when you enter into a relationship, regardless of your sexual orientation, you are like... It's a reflection of you and how much you care about yourself, right? It takes two to tango and any marriage and any relationship. It takes two to kind of... And there are a million different kinds of relationships and a whole constellation of them. But I think with my friends who have gone through conversion therapy, I noticed that maybe their relationships are a little bit more complicated than maybe mine is, but that's as an outsider, right? And that's me kind of, I guess, passing a little bit of judgment or projecting maybe onto them. I will say what's undeniable is the long-term effects in law school. I dated a guy who had gone through conversion therapy. I went to law school in the South. Was he Southern? He was Southern. And there were more gay men in the South who had gone through conversion therapy. It's not non-existent in the North, but... I hear you. No, I get you. It's much bigger in the South. The South tends to be a much more conservative. Obviously not everybody in the South is conservative, but it tends to be very conservative. And it's also very like a church-driven community. It's much more prominent there, I think, at least where I grew up. I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean the pastor told you what to do? It's like, we don't listen to him. So yeah, that was sort of my relationship with those folks. And I guess with him, it was, I don't know what I want to say. It was not very long-lived, I think is what I'll probably say. The relationship. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't very long. Was it, do you think it was because he was still grappling with what he had gone through or do you think it just didn't work? I don't want to talk directly about him, but I will say generally, the men I dated in the South in 2011 were more at odds with their sexual orientation than I was at that age. I was 22, 23. I had figured it out years ago. This was an on-issue. My parents didn't make a big deal out of it. They were like, cool, sounds good. Like be careful, protect yourself. Also all the rules that apply to your sister still apply to you. You don't get a hall pass because you're gay. You know what I mean? They were like, we're also not tolerating any bullshit, by the way. Yeah. And that was like kind of- You still have to do your homework. Yeah, that was kind of it. You can't call in gay to school. So I will be trying that at work. Your honor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, shit today. So I think going down South for law school, I had grown up gay, was gay through college, was gay living in New York after college, and then was like, I'm going to go to law school. And then I went to the South. I was in New Orleans, which is a pretty queer, that's like the most queer liberal place I would say in the South. And I was like, whoa. You're really hung up on this. You're still really hung up on this. Coming out or your family wasn't really ever an issue or conversation in the men I had dated in New York. Gotcha. So this is like, I guess we can classify this as like my perspective on North versus South relationships with sexual identity from the first person point of view of me dating them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think a lot about the children that I have had that I have in my life. And I can't imagine doing something like that to my kid. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Because what I want, what I would want for, I mean, I want this kind of for everybody, right? But like, people are so much better, I think, at life when they are their authentic self, right? When you spend a good amount of time fighting against who you are, the rest of it kind of falls apart. Because you're spending your whole life fighting yourself. Correct. There's plenty of shit to fight in the world. That's right. And you're in internal conflict. Yes. Oh, honey. The internal conflict that has been brought on by the people who should be guiding you. Yes. By the people who should love you the most, right? Yeah. I can have an inner conflict about something that has nothing to do with my folks, right? But if it did, it compounds the problem. Right. Like, I fight all day for work. But then when I come home, I'm like, look at this bad bitch in the mirror. Look at her. You know? Like, she's that girl. Face 10, body tea. It makes me think about, I guess, like kids who identify as transgender. It's a very fraught, hot topic in America, right? We've got constant attacks on access to hormone blockers, puberty blockers, access to trans health care. I mean, even in New York, this isn't like a battleground state. This is like in Manhattan. NYU Langone is no longer giving gender-affirming care to minors. And so I think, and I want to like clarify because I think, you know, people listening to the show might be like, oh, well, kids shouldn't be getting surgery or we shouldn't be, you know, and I want to clarify that when we say gender-affirming care for minors, we're talking about puberty blockers, which are a medication that's been around for decades. They give it to people with hormone disorders that like was not being used for trans youth for a long time. So it's a very safe drug protocol from everything I've read on it. Basically what it does is it pauses puberty because what basically happens is you go through puberty, especially if you were born a cis man, and it develops a lot of very masculine traits. You get an Adam's apple, your voice gets really deep, you get a beard, yes. And so what it does is it basically like smashes the pause button on puberty so that you can figure out what's going on, right? Or until you're 18 and you're like, yes, I do indeed want gender-affirming care. And it's like not a decision made lightly. Like there's usually therapists involved. There's psychiatrists involved. It's not like kids are... Sure, why not? After school, a group of kids are walking over to the clinic. It's not like buying a bag of Skittles. Yeah. And so, oh, and that's the other thing. The second you go off puberty blockers, you go through puberty. That was going to be my next question is that if you were to come to a conclusion that you no longer wish to be on it, you proceed through puberty. Exactly. And so I think the risk is really low here. And it's similar to like abortion care where Republicans make it seem like getting an abortion is the red wedding where they're just... You're just getting like... And it's not like that at all. No, it isn't. And I want to call out, I think there are some really interesting experts who talk in this space. I'd love to have them on the show. But kids who identify as trans, who understand that they are on the gender spectrum or not the sex they were sent at birth are oftentimes like much more self-aware and understand themselves better than other kids. And so to just like not listen to that or like not do anything about that. Or to try and sort of stamp down on that. Yeah. Especially even gay kids, not even trans kids that when they believe something about themselves and they say it, right? When I was 14 figuring out I was gay, it's like, I don't know. I think people assume because they're kids that we should take it lightly or that it's just a phase or that they'll move on. I think that on the contrary, right? You should really believe your child when they say something. And I think the other thing I would imagine, because I want that, right? For KP or my cousins and stuff, please feel free like you can come to me with anything, and that whatever it is, and I will help guide you through it or help you figure it out or be supportive. Even if like I say this to KP all the time, like I used to always feel like if there's something going on, I want you to tell me. I might be mad, right? I might be mad, but I love you enough to just want to help you figure it out, right? But yeah, am I going to be pissed off? Maybe. But like not in a way to ever make you feel like there's no love. And that's what I mean, I think just generally the world is full of a lot of angry, frustrated people for a lot of different reasons. And I think that had they been permitted to be who they were to, I mean, it's a spectrum of things, right? To go into a field that they were really interested in, study what they wanted to in school, love who they love, whatever it is, then the world would just be a better place. And I know that sounds a little bit like rose-colored glasses, but like there is something to that, right? There's definitely something to it. I mean, and I've had like a complicated relationship with like my own sexuality and identity, like as I've gotten older and I had a really tough time relating to like other gay people. Like it was really hard for me to make friends with gay people. Why do you think that is? I worked at a gay bar when I was really young. I was like 18, 19, and it was, I was, I think, a little too young to be working at a gay bar. And so I was put in a lot of situations where I learned a lot, maybe like maybe at too young of an age. Okay. I was, I saw too much. Sure, no, I know you. So you were this young, impressionable young man. And I was seeing like older 30, 40 year old men being gay, which is like great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was maybe like the youngest person there. And I had to really be like protective of my, of my like peace when I was working. Are you saying that in hindsight, looking back at the 18 year old? At the time I was like, I was like, this is tough. This is a tough gig. Okay. Okay. And so for a long time after that, I think I assumed that that's what queer spaces were. That was queer community. And I was experiencing it as like so young in a space where it really was a quite a licentious space, right? Like everyone was there to like party and have fun. And I was like this young guy. I thought for a really long time that I would in queer spaces always have to have my guard up. And that is just not true. And there are so many safe queer spaces. And I just had been exposed to one that I guess in retrospect was not. Not safe. Okay. And you know, I'm learning a lot about like drugs and like sex and all that stuff when I was really, when I was still a teenager, you know, I was over 18 so I could work at the bar, but I was like learning a lot really fast. Sure, sure, sure, sure. And like I remember I called and like this one friend, he was a waiter. We were really good friends. We got super close and we would drink, we would go drinking like all night after work and he didn't come into work the next day. And I was calling him, calling him and like it's a big bar restaurant. I've got to cover the whole thing. And he called me back like hours later. He was in rehab because he had gone in like a crazy coke bender the night before. Okay. Meanwhile, I'm 19. I'm like, oh yeah, we're staying up all night. Yeah. I'm like, I don't have to sleep. I'm good. I wasn't even doing any drugs. Right, right, right. I was just like, oh, yeah, I could just do it for days, no sleep. Yeah, I'm good. Yeah. No, he was on drugs. Okay. I've had experiences like that where I'm looking back. So you know what, sorry. So he was able to stay up for an extended amount of time while on drugs, but you were not and were able to stay up. Yes. And you know what, I probably could do it today. You couldn't. Could you really? I could probably stay up for like two days. If I was having a good time, lots of friends around. Yeah. Yeah. So like circling back to it, like I recently just, not recently, but in the past, you know, a few years, I really have had time and space to, and really in need and desire post pandemic to have queer safe spaces that I can go to. Do you think you found those places? Hell yeah. Okay. And like that is like a message I want, you know, the young baby gays listening that follow me on Tik Tok to know is that like, it's going to take you time. Maybe not don't wait until you're 38 to try a second time to like find queer community and friendship. But it's out there. Like keep looking. Like it, it will find you. You will find it and don't like close yourself off to that so quickly because that's what I did. And I wish I had it sooner. I think it would have really helped me because now I feel like so great. How do I have it? Why do you think that it took you this long? Like was it that first experience and working in this bar where you felt like you were overexposed to something or a certain kind of population in a person or is it just you were just eventually it took you a longer time to learn about who you were? I think it was like I opted out. I think I opted out really quickly where I was like, this isn't for me. I'm out. Like I was a little traumatized. And I just never really, it's like when you drink too much tequila and you're like, I'm never drinking tequila again. It's the next time that you do. Until you're stuck on the hantavirus cruise and you're like, you know what, let me have a margarita. And then you're like, oh, this is actually pretty good. You know, it's kind of like that where I was like, oh, wow, I haven't had this in a really long time. Let me experience it. And I also think I'm married now. I'm old as shit. I'm bald. Like guys aren't like throwing themselves at me. Like it's a little less stressful to be in a gay space. I can truly find friendship rather than like a cruisy experience. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You see what I mean? Not that I can see. I mean, there is a certain freedom that I think that you acquire as you age. I definitely feel that. Taraji P. Henson was talking to somebody and she said that she really feels like women, especially, are born with a certain amount of fucks to give. Yeah. Oh, I saw this. Did you see this? And then she was like, by the time you are 50, you've run out of fucks. And I definitely feel like that. Right? Like I feel like I don't, you know, now I don't say, no, I don't want to do this because I can't. I don't want to go. I don't want to do this thing. I, you know what I mean? I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want to. I know our booker is. No, what I mean is it is just that, you know, I don't want to. You know, as you get older, you find your voice. No, I know. You figure out who you are. You figure out who you would like around you. Yeah. What kind of person you don't want around you. And it takes time. Yeah. So I mean, when I think about 25 year old Melissa versus 54 year old Melissa, there's a different animal altogether. I wouldn't be that age again for anything. I would not. I would not pay me to be 25. I even though I had that really good skin. No, it's not worth it. I the skin was glorious. I mean, your skin is snatched. No, not like, not like 25. And I was fatter, so the fat was keeping my face fresh. Oh, a fat face is a wrinkle free face. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. It really is. I'm not even kidding. No, me either. That's why you see sometimes you see people who have lost a lot of weight and you're like, wow, they look really old. Michael, I'm serious. It's really, really true. It's like, oh, what happened to so and so? I'm not laughing because you're wrong. You're like, oh, wow, what happened to so and so? You're like, oh, they just lost 50 pounds. That'll do it. I have a friend. She's, her mantra is that doesn't work for me. That's what she says to everyone. No excuse. Oh, you want it? That doesn't work for me. Nope. And that's it. And it's honestly great. And when she says it to me, I'm like, great. Okay. I'm like, I'm going to be the next person. You know, like, it's great. Or when she says yes, it's like, cool. Yeah. I love that. No is a complete sentence. I think you avoid being around people who make you feel like shit. This is like creating a safe space. Yeah. That's what I think. I mean, and I, I know I keep on talking about KP a lot, but she was the kid in my life, right? When, as she was growing up and becoming a young woman, one of the things that I said to her was you get to choose who is in your space. Yes. You get to choose the things that you do. What works for you. What works for you. And that is friends, sexual partners, things that work, right? Nobody is permitted to abuse you. Yeah. And I think that it took me as a young woman a really long time to learn that because nobody, nobody told me those things, right? Yes. Like I grew up in a household where you did what the teacher said. Yeah. What your parents said, you didn't ask questions. You, you know, you, there was never an opportunity where you could be sick and not go to school. Do you know what I mean? Like I can't remember. My brother was, we were talking about this the other day and my brother was remembering the time that my mom sent him to school with the chicken pox. Go. My mom, my mom sent me to and, and I think because for her, the immunologists in the comments, their fingers are on fire because I think, I mean, and I'll say this, he didn't go with the full breakout, right? But there was like a suspicious spot and she probably should have had it checked out and she did it. And then he got sick. It was, what was it the nineties? Joey eighties. It's the eighties. Yeah. It was a different time guys. You know, and I remember she sent me, I'll never forget this. She sent me to school. I said to her, mom, I don't feel good. Melissa, you go into school. Okay. I went to school, proceeded to get violently ill in school. The nurse called my mother who did not want to come pick me up and I will never forget it. She said to my mother, Mrs. Malbranch, Melissa is shivering. Melissa has been up and down to the bathroom at least three times. You must come and get Melissa. You must come and get Melissa. When I tell you my mom came, pissed at me, pissed at me. So again, and I, and I say this to say, you, you know, you did not ask questions. Yeah. You didn't ask questions, right? So really interrogate. Yes. So that's, I mean, that's what I'm saying is that, you know, I mean, I know it's hard when your kid's sick or whatever, but like this idea of you are allowed to question people. Why do you want me to do this thing with you? But also question yourself and whether this works for you. Like I think about, I keep coming circling back to when I'm 38 and I'm still learning. I'm like, Michael, this person has told you who they are. You need to believe them. Stop reaching out to hang out with this person when you know this is what they're like or like this is how they behave or that they never text back or whatever it is or that when you really needed them, they weren't there for you. Like a lot of it is like they say boundaries start within, right? You do. You also have to maintain them. You do. And so a lot of times when people are like, there are no boundaries in my life, it's like that has to, that is partly your fault. You have to figure it out and set that up. And I think that it's very different for young boys and men. I think young girls and women are, we are taught to be nice. And I was taught to ask for what you need. So much so that Michael and I have had conversations where I'm like, I don't think I could ask for that. And you were like, you need to approach this like a white gay man. Can we talk about this? Can we talk about this? This is our booking fee. Our booking fee. When Melissa and I get booked for something, we talk about it. And like I am always like, this is in order for me to leave and go do this thing, this is my number. And Melissa makes this face. If you're listening, she's big eyed. She's so nervous right now because you were... I'm actually very uncomfortable. You were raised to not talk about money and to not talk about salary, how much you make, what your value is in the marketplace. I was, when I was like a young boy, I remember the men in my life talking about asking for raises or making more money or how to invest. And like that was very much ingrained ever since I got my first job when I was in my early 20s, like my first salary job. It was like, you go ask for a raise as soon as you can. I will tell you this story. So, I don't know how long ago. This was quite a long time ago. I had had a boss who sort of up and left abruptly and they didn't backfill their position for a really long time. So I was basically handling everything. I did all this stuff, my job, their job, managing everything, keeping sort of the ship afloat and at the end of that year, I got like a stellar review. Yeah, that's great. But they didn't offer me any additional. Oh, honey, Norma Ray, I would have unionized. So I went to the person that I was reporting to and I said, hey, this is my review. And I was so anxious to do it. But anyway, I went to this person and I said to them, I think I deserve a raise. And then she looked at me and she was like, you do. You absolutely do. I think I think I know who this was. And she said to me, I'm so glad that you asked me because if you hadn't said anything, I wouldn't have given it to you. And that it upset me on a few different levels. Do you know what I mean? Because she's acknowledging that I deserved the bump in salary. She's acknowledging that I had worked really hard, but did not feel like she could just give it to me that I needed to ask for it. That still pisses me off. And it makes you think about all the people who didn't ask, who were in the same situation as you or for me, it made me think about this person doesn't know what's going on at her own organization and maybe didn't even review these reviews for who deserves what discretionary increase. Right. I will say like, well, button this up by saying, yes, I was raised to ask for more money. Men generally are. That doesn't mean to the two men listening. That you just like taking a walk away, you use your male privilege to support the women in your life who maybe are afraid to ask for more money. I'm not talking about you right now. No, it's fine. But I get that call all the time from my clients who are thinking about, you know, need help with their job search or whatever. How do I negotiate this? So, your responsibility as a ally to your female friends and the women in your life is to use that privilege to help close that wage gap. Because no one is going to, even if you're a man, woman, whatever, no one's going to proactively close that wage gap. We have to ask for it to be closed. And that onus isn't on women. That onus is also on men. So, yeah, like be a good ally, I guess, if you're a dude. Like help people, help the women in your life advocate. So I handle our booking fee for the show. I'm getting better at it. You're getting better at it. I'm getting better at it. You booked a gig without me. I did. And you called me and I helped advise. You did. You did. And that's what we're going to do. That's how we're going to handle it from now on, okay? Exactly. This shit's really ingrained. It's ingrained in your psyche. It is. It really is. I think what do you think looking back for you, 25 year old Michael? What do you think that... Creating a safe space for queer people like what I could have done or done differently? I think for me I should have like gone for it a little bit more. I think I was... What does that mean for you? I was so afraid because I kept ending up in situations ships with friends like I would try and be friends with someone and it would turn into a thing. So I think for me, I really held back after that happened a bunch. I was like, ooh, I'm going to not, I'm not going to try and be friends with this person, even though they seem really cool and I really want to hang out with them. Instead I'm going to remove myself and not engage because I don't want to end up in like a weird situation that could have easily been avoided if I just set boundaries. If I just set boundaries with those folks and said, no, I just want to be friends with you, that's a boundary. I have to maintain it. But I wasn't and I wasn't maintaining it. And that was the slippery slope that I kept falling into. So I select, self-selected out and said, I'm going to tap out, rather be alone than have to deal with all this emotional drama. I got you. Yeah. You know what I mean? So for me, I think I would have been a little bit more, I would have, I guess, gone out on that limb. Yeah. All right, let's take a break. Welcome back to brief recess. Welcome back to brief recess. This is Tales from the DMs. We're going to talk about all the wild things y'all send us. I love it so much. Melissa, do you have anything you want to say maybe about me being a lawyer? I was so busy trying to correct you. Perhaps it's your line. Friends, what do I always say while Michael is a lawyer? He's not your lawyer, so shop around for your own. Okay. I've got a great email. We don't know who it's from, but probably to protect the innocent. When that guy, you know the one, leaves this earth, I absolutely want to be woken up. To quote a tweet I saw, you can't even wake me up. You can even wake me up from surgery. Oh my God, I've been planning toast to party when it happens for over a year and it's been my biggest coping mechanism. It might happen. He's got all that makeup on his hand, on his neck. He's got those giant ankles. He's really unwell, isn't he? I've been collecting alcohol, patriotic decor, and even made my own hip shaped, him shaped pinata. Oh my God. Are we going to show the pinata? They sent a photo of the pinata. Are we going to show the pinata? It's great. Well done. Well done. Wow. This person's really manifesting. They are dedicated. When I don't feel like cleaning myself or my house, I say, but what if the party's today? It's a great motivator. It is, I suppose. And I get my shit back together. When he threatens to set off a nuclear apocalypse, which has actually happened a couple of times, I text my friends to ask what they'll wear to my party. This is like such a, this is hope core. This person's very hopeful. Pulling themselves out of a depressive phone care. Hope brings eternal. Yeah. Will this party cure everything? No. Might things get weird and dangerous? Yeah. But I'll be damned if I don't have some morbid celebrating a few days, give myself a reason for hoping the meantime. Stay sexy, question mark. I love it. Y'all are amazing. You know what I think is really interesting about this is the amount of people that I hear saying similar things, right? People who are like, and I think what's interesting is that I think these are probably people who have not been the sort of folks who wish death on another person. This is where we are right now. Yes, exactly. And it also makes me uncomfortable, right? I struggle with it because I don't want to be the kind of person who's like, I hope somebody dies and it's not about the other person. It is about me and my karma. Yes, exactly. Yeah, no, we're not nice and hopeful because we want good in the world. We're like that because we're selfish and we want good karma. So I just want to make that clear. Yeah. It is so loathsome to me that this is where we are. I'm doing that's what I hate. We're doing good things for the wrong reason. Anyway, okay, you've got to read number three. This one, my friends, I love you. Thank you for the endless entertainment, Michael. I see you on your flawless skin, but I have to move on, Melissa. Mesa girl. Hippo love queen. I've loved hippos since day one. We are not pygmy hippo mood dang bandwagoners. Love them and their territorial asses. I've had a hippo tattoo for 10 years. My family thinks it's regrettable. Picture is attached. Please keep doing what you all are doing. Love Jenny, hospice RN from the Bay Area and she sent us a picture of her hippo tattoo. Jenny, thank you, my sister in hippo love. I appreciate you. And also Jenny, thank you for the work that you do. I feel like hospice work is really important work. And thank you so much for what you do. And I love the hippo tattoo and I'm dead serious. I want a hippo tattoo so bad. She called it a regrettable tattoo, but no, her family thinks it's regrettable. She does not. Let me tell you about regrettable tattoos. Do you have any? Our friend who was recently on the podcast, Alyssa, went on a bachelorette trip and got a neck tattoo. It's not easily visible. It's still on the neck. The thing about it is, here's the thing about the tattoo. No, no, no, because she got the tattoo and didn't want it. She got it anyway. She was so loyal to her friend. Right. They decided that if they did thing X that they were all going to get the same tattoo. Let's all get a tattoo on the party trip. Yeah. And then I can't remember. She was like the third person from the group to get it. Right. And then she too got it and the whole time she was like, I should not. I don't want this. I don't want this. But she was like, you know, I made a promise. She committed to the bit. And she is now with this. And it's just such a... It says Bodega and cursive right across her throat. It's on the back of her neck. And I think it's a... Is it a squiggly line or a straight line? It's some sort of straight line. It's a line. It's just like a little line tattoo. But I love that about her. No, but I think what was really funny was like... I actually didn't want to do it, but I said that I would. So I did. I was like, girl. What? I'm not getting a tattoo that I don't like. That's ridiculous. This has been Brief Recess. Thank you for joining us. I guess I'll see you in court. Not me. This has been an Exactly Right production recorded at iHeart Studios, hosted by me, Michael Foote. And me, Melissa Malbranche, our producer is CJ Ferroni. This episode was edited by Nicholas Gallucci. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is Patrick Cottner. Our theme song was composed by Tom Brifogel with artwork from Charlotte Delarue and Vanessa Lylak, with photography by Brad Obono. Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, and Danielle Cramer. You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foote. And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranche. Got legal questions? Reach out at Brief Recess at ExactlyRightMedia.com. Listen to Brief Recess on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, we're a podcast with video. Search for Brief Recess on YouTube.