UAP EP 185 What is the Dark Side of Ufology?

yes welcome back in to UAP Stephen Diener back with you here as always on the unidentified alien podcast episode number 185 but we are chugging along here and I'm happy to bring this one to you I spoke about it last week and now finally here we are my interview with red panda Koala. And so just a little background here real quick. Call him Red for short. If you don't really follow along on social media a lot, then you may not be truly familiar with the name Red Panda Koala. He's a massive presence on social media when it comes to the UFO topic. And you'll also hear me refer to another, I guess, personality on social media named Tupacabra. And he goes by Tupa for short, and both of them are very present in the UFO topic on social media, very recognizable names, and they have a big voice within this topic on social media especially. So it was exciting to bring him on here because he's kind of like at a different angle of this. And, you know, I always try to get all the angles of the story to see what's happening, to see what's going on, you know, maybe, you know, pick this part of the information and add it into this part of the information. And one of the main things that we got into here, which hence the name of the episode, The Dark Side of Ufology, about the first, I don't know, close to half, a little bit less than half of the episode is about the dark side of things going on behind the scenes. You know, we always try to focus on really just truly the mysteries so we can try to find out the answers, try to connect the dots. But there are things happening behind the scenes when it comes to doxing. And you heard me kind of touch on it with Patrick recently when I spoke to him from Vetted. And a lot of that is going on. And I wanted to address it because I don't want to see these things happening and see people suffering, seeing people getting threatened and just ignore it. That just doesn't feel right to me. So I wanted to kind of try to put a light on this, more light than maybe is previously been put on there and have someone who's kind of in the middle of it. not kind of, who is in the middle of it, a central figure within this topic of doxing, being threatened, a lot of the dark stuff that's happening behind the scenes, and that is Red Panda Koala. He's really, truly in the thick of it, and he's been involved with police reports and all these different things. Now, you'll also hear me mention Lou Elizondo. You know, he goes into his main, I guess, figure with his experiences are people who are connected to Lou Elizondo. And that's who he brings up. So I also want to preface it, and we say it here too, but I'll say it now in the intro. This isn't an attack on anybody. This isn't an attack on Lou. I've had good experiences with Lou. I've had him on the show before. You know that. I would be happy to have him on again. I enjoy talking to him. personally on and off the mic, if you will. I enjoy talking to him. So this isn't an attack on anybody, an indictment on anybody. This is a conversation, at least the first half of the episode, is a conversation about what is going on behind the scenes, why is it happening, and how can we stop it so people can stop feeling threatened just when talking about the UFO topic. That's why the name of the episode is called what it's called, The Dark Side of Ufology. But then after that, we get into what we call the fun things. We start talking about some of the ancient questions when it comes to the pyramids in Egypt. We talk about Greenland and possible connections there. We talk about Bigfoot. We talk about the drones. We get back into that discussion and try to kind of rehash some of that because Red Panda Koala did a huge documentary about that when it was all going on. So we try to rehash some of that and bring up some of the old questions there. And we get into the recent reports from the documentarian out of England, Mark Christopher Lee, when he says that Trump is going to disclose the UFO truth, that, you know, this is something that's been going on. So we get into a lot of those things as well. But we start off with this topic. And that's what you can expect right now on this extended edition. Not two parts, just going for it right now. Extended edition here. Because it felt right. It felt better, just one thing here. So enjoy it now. myself with Red Panda Koala, an in-depth discussion about a lot of things right here on UAP. Enjoy. Well, I'm excited here because for the first time, we're bringing on Red Panda Koala, famous all over social media in the UFO community, and I'm happy to bring him on here to UAP today. We are going to talk about a lot of different subjects. We're going to go from A to Z. Red, if I can call you Red, thanks for coming on here to UAP. thank you Steven for having me yeah I'm a fan of your stuff too on social media I'm a very fan of your positive energy I see you go to the hearings and stuff and keeping things positive and light and you know still touching on stuff see talking to Burleson and representatives so I think we need more people like you in the community that are you know enjoy it but also you're willing to have me on you know and we're going to talk about some kind of real stuff too not that the other stuff is fake but there's a lot of people who it's like there's a lot of people who it's like almost they'll get jaded it seems like as time goes on in their time in the field and i haven't seen you uh come off as jaded so i do appreciate that energy you bring to the community thank you man i appreciate that and i appreciate the flattery to start off the conversation so thank you for that no but thank you seriously that uh that means a lot um that said i know you mentioned some of the other stuff the real so to speak and by real we mean things happening in everyday life that actually are affecting your life. And we're going to start here, and I'll preface this by saying actually just something that you and I were talking about off the air before we started recording here, and that what we're going to talk about to start off is what I refer to as the dark side of the UFO topic. And we're going to get into, you know, a lot of the really fun stuff, the things that we're used to talking about, the ancient history of the UFO past, the drones, we're going to get into that. We're getting into some of the more mysterious things and even some of the more current topics in the UFO world. But I wanted to start here because you and Tupacabra, also known as Tupacabra, two very big voices on the UFO community and social media, have been going through some stuff. And by stuff, I mean threats, doxing. It's been pretty serious, and I've been following it kind of from afar. and it's scary stuff and the reason why I want to start off with it is because I think it's something that should be brought to light and I know that it's not and I say this for anyone listening right now who might be like this isn't what I come to UAP for but I'm bringing this up first because I know it's not the normal UAP subject but I think it's an important one because it does involve real life threats in the UFO community and it's something that you're going through something that Tupacabra is going through. I know you guys work together a lot for anybody who's not familiar. So what is happening? What are you guys dealing with? And why is it happening? Sure. So let me, it's such a big tangled web, so I don't even address it. But at first I want to thank you for even bringing this up because a lot of people do shy away from it. And I understand totally why people do. And, you know, I've been making content on this topic since like 2018, 2019. And for years, I also shied away from it because I was just like, I didn't really understand what was going on and it does get messy and stuff like that but i guess broad topic before i get into kind of the more specific stuff recently is um you know i've i've been making ufo history documentaries right and something i used to say that i loved that i wasn't really in the the kind of access game of the current interviews was like everyone i'm making interview or movie documentaries about is pretty much like dead or old and they're not really current you know what i mean so i didn't really have to deal with some of the like the weird access dynamics that are at play here but basically as time went on and i was looking at the landscape here i noticed there was this kind of mechanism and it's almost comparable to like scientology fair gaming where if and it's not just like me or tuba right it's like there's whistleblowers there's experiencers there's plenty of people without platforms who've also brushed up against this mechanism where it's like if you see or do the wrong thing and you have big enough of a voice this kind of apparatus um will come in and dox harass threaten people until they kind of go away and i've seen many people go away right i've been here since 2018 2019 i've seen people come and go because of this mechanism and so after a while i just kind of was like over i felt like i was being complicit in this kind of dynamic if i didn't say anything and then too there was this other dynamic where there's people who told me like hey i got into the ufo field because of your topic or because of your videos and now i'm getting harassed now i'm getting docs and i think another dynamic to be aware of is like ufo cults the ufo subculture is probably one of the most cult prone um subcultures in american history um there's a lot of really fanatical energies within this topic going back decades right i mean heaven's gate um and i'm aware that the whole cult branding has been also used by the intelligence community to kind of like uh promote the stigma so i try not to to fall into that but there is there is a very real thing and some of these figures in ufology um it's been disappointing to see people who I used to view as heroes seem to kind of lean into that are they kind of they're happy with having fanatical groups of people online who do really gross and disgusting things on their behalf many times they have like personal um relationships with them and here another thing worth noting is this isn't a universal thing right so for example I've seen no evidence of David Grush engaging with this kind of stuff you know I'm a real big Grush supporter I think he's like probably one of the best people currently uh doing stuff like uh in a big way in this topic right now and i don't see him falling into the same traps of you know who we're going to talk about here is lou elizondo who is somebody who i do see falling into this um dynamic and who has been for years and you know i didn't always start off as like a lou hater and i wouldn't even consider myself that now uh if you look at some of my early videos i really used to uh include him a lot of stuff because you know it was like oh there's this dude from the the government kind of saying all this interesting stuff my um my normie friends would used to make fun of me and say like oh why is this guy in every one of your videos because i really was i was lucru through and through you know and it was only after time of seeing various witnesses and i guess some concrete examples i could put is uh jeremy mcgowan who i recommend you talk to um and there's some articles um i think you put these out on youtube right next maybe i'll comment some of the articles i'm referencing yeah um where he was a whistleblower he was a witness he saw ufos in the 90s while serving the military in jordan and he was kind of brought into the lou elizondo fold and he started noticing some weird red flags behind the scenes and this is about 2019 2020 time frame and he uh backed off from there some of the things being some of the red flags being like lou elizondo was kind of lying to various production companies about um that person they had made this like ufo hunting truck and lou alizando was lying about that to people uh this was before lou alizando had publicly written in his book that he was a remote viewer and he was telling him all this like psychic stuff and saying he was predicting his future and whatnot and basically uh when that dude backed away from that he got what i call like the basically scientology fair game tactics where people were uh and these are people closely connected to lou were calling his work trying to get him fired um trying to get a security clearance revoked some of these online trolls would post pictures of his minor children and his wife and kids like that and disparaging like edits made to him and it's just really gross behavior and again it's like lou elizondo was interacting with a lot of these troll accounts doing it and i know for a fact lou elizondo had like has interacted with them and could easily tell them to stop or like you know what i mean turn down the temperature or maybe stop following them but he doesn't and almost seems like he likes that kind of thing if he feels he's been wronged and slighted um do you Do you think, Red, he knows? And actually, and I bring this up, and it might sound like a naive question, but I think it's worth asking. Because I had Patrick on here from Vetted just a little while back. And this was a topic that we touched on as well, because this is something that he experienced. As well, yep. Right, personally. And he made the point that of all the videos and of all the topics or the UFO figures that he covers, the most drama he normally gets comes from when he speaks about Lou Elizondo. And by the way, for full disclosure, and I'm sure anybody maybe for listening, you probably heard the episode. I've had Lou on the show here before. I've spoken to Lou in front of the camera and behind the camera. So, you know, I'm not here to be like this, this and that, you know, take this, take that. I want to talk about it. And I made that point on social media today, too, before we spoke. I had people coming at me saying, oh, wow, not listening to you anymore. And I said, wow, how come? And then someone's like, oh, well, just look at all the other comments. I said, look, I'm for talking to people. I've talked to you now and I've spoken to Lou. So obviously I'm not trying to like pull people one way or the other. I'm interested in trying to find out what's going on. And I think everybody else should try to find out what's going on too. So that was a very long winded lead up to me asking, do you think Lou knows what's happening? What people are specifically doing in his name? Or do you think he just shelters himself from all this stuff and tries not to pay attention to what's going on? I would like to believe he doesn't know, but I think it's just kind of naive. And especially at this point, this many years into it, you know, he came from an organization called CIFA, which was made after 9-11 with the Patriot Act. And it was basically they were gang stalking and surveilling anti-Iraq war protesters. And they actually got shut down in, I believe, 2008. And they were also doing shady stuff like blackmailing politicians and whatnot. But they were putting plans into anti-Iraq war movements and student groups that were protesting like recruitment centers on high schools and stuff like that. So kind of shady stuff and also directly connected to Dick Cheney, whose name comes up a lot. Right. So there's that there's that element of him where it's like he's kind of already been involved in kind of quasi government infiltration of political groups. And then there's also the other thing. He's just he's a trained counterintelligence officer. So it's like he'd have to be the most the worst counterintelligence officer ever to not know about it. But I also do know also that there's been various people who I know have reached out to him specifically about this thing and been like, hey, dude, why are you engaging with this kind of activity? Some of them are Alejandro Rojas, who's been in the field for a long time. I'm not sure if you've talked to him. He's part of Enigma Labs now. Not yet. Yeah, he said he's talked to Lou about this specifically. Deep Prasad, another great member of the community and fields, talked to him about specifically. and so there's just too much going on and kind of like i what i i didn't watch the interview but i i've talked about this too it's like this doesn't happen with grush or with jeff nusitelli or any of these other people it's really just lou right and it's like why is that and maybe you know maybe um for a while there i was open to like maybe this is part of the op against lou and like he's not really aware but as time went on and i really looked at it it really seems like he is fully aware of it and maybe i could kind of get into the the more recent stuff going on with me and in tuba yeah please go ahead so the recent stuff is it's just we started covering this in about 2023 and by that point there was already years worth of documentation and evidence with various other um experiencers podcasters whistleblowers of like kind of shady going on behind the scenes and so you know and i want to preface this too like steven i appreciate you having me on i hope great people hearing me talk about this please don't come for steven at all like you know what I mean, he's just he's had Lou on. He's having me on. He's not endorsing my like anything like that. You know what I mean? Because it's going to get messy here. That's all good. Appreciate it. But one of the things we we covered was that one of Lou Elizondo's like favorite little shows, Disclosure Tonight, was closely associated with the doxing of David Grush. Now, this is separate of the medical records getting out, but kind of connected, in my opinion. um but before his article went public in 2023 various elements of that show which lou frequents uh put his name out said we're going to flush out this cockroach um and even leslie keenan ralph blumenthal who wrote the articles on grush said that it was like some of the stuff going on on ufo twitter forced them to to not wait for the washington post to do their vetting process and to have to go through the debrief now once we pulled on this thread that's when we started getting like some more harassment going on and it kind of culminated started really culminating uh about september of last year when we finally got one of the old hosts of the show to kind of go whistleblower if you will about the dynamics going on behind the scenes and they had said this character mike disclosure who lou is friends with has made videos with done multiple interviews he's done videos saying like hey i love everything you're doing mike disclosure um he says that that that character mike disclosure put him up to doing that and went into great detail about like how that happened basically once that started happening the doxing and harassment really started increasing from that little camp um right after that happened lou went on their show with mike disclosure and said um mike disclosure told him uh lou all the people attacking you they're going down brother and it's crazy they always view like um i guess real quick here's another dynamic too right they view like so i'm kind of a journalist i consider yourself a journalist too right and you see me on social media kind of do like the clipping news thing now ever since i'm not part of any more Skyfire news, but you know, Keemstar kind of like taught me in Tupac how to do kind of like news clipping and stuff like that. And I'm appreciative of the stuff I learned there, but I'm glad to be able to kind of do it in my own way and not so much centered on the on Keemstar kind of worldview The point being is I don view myself as attacking Lou but I just cover the news broadly I cover when Sean Kirkpatrick lies I cover when Lou Elizondo lies you know what I mean But if I cover a Sean Kirkpatrick lie I don get hit with all this kind of backlash and stuff. So like I have to cover if, if Leslie Keen is saying that, uh, David Grush's name coming out on UFO X forced them to rush to the article. And then the people who actually did it said they were ordered to do this by people closely associated with Lou Elizondo. and if you pay attention to the stuff going on the david grush lou elizondo stuff it's starting to percolate now but i've known for years that it's like those are not they're not as bro as lou elizondo would like you to think so in my view i'm not like attacking lou when i do that but these people and his little sycophan's view it that way and i could understand why because it's not the best light to be like associated with like doxing and david grush i can understand why shady people would not want their shadiness to come forward anyway so september that happens October Lou goes on their show Mike Disclosure tells them hey these people attacking you referring directly to me and two but they're going down brother we're going to get them deplatformed Lou says we know exactly who they are we've been doing this a long time so kind of like galvanizing them which is another pattern we've seen with Lou and that show even very you should talk to Manny 503 another documentary filmmaker who kind of had similar experiences a few years back point being so since then there's been a steady escalation from that camp um since this guy went whistleblower of various things so they posted pictures of my sister from when she was a minor oh geez making allusions to to rape and murder oh they've posted my house uh just a few weeks ago now on their live stream they posted my full address and said i'm gonna run out of oxygen soon oh geez um and yeah this is mike disclosure did this okay so he so mike disclosure on that show yes he's the one who put all the stuff out that you're talking correct correct lou elizondo did not do this but um i'll continue along here um this is one of the most egregious things too that just happened recently was there's a member of our community um i'll just leave them unnamed for now um who is going through and you know this is another element of this community of the there's a lot of uh mental health issues i would say in this community that you know need to be addressed you know a trauma is a very big part of i feel like ufo experiencers right there's so many people who are like we're at their lowest low or in a traumatic moment when they had their ufo experience so there's a member of this community who is open about how they've been very suicidal uh they were they were just baker acted uh a week and a half ago uh which means where the cops took them against their will to mental institution for a few days yeah and so they had felt that i had slighted them in their whole ordeal which you know i'm not trying to like class any shade on them people you have to deal with their kind of issues like that but basically um that person used viewed it as an opportunity to maybe like get back at me. And they, they, they wanted to talk to Mike disclosure about, you know, doing something to get back at me and Mike disclosure unprompted. So that person said, Hey, like, I feel like red panda slided me. Um, I was just, I'm suicidal. I was just Baker acted and like, I'm just upset right now. And so Mike disclosure in response, sent him dossiers on me and Tupacabra. And these dossiers included, um, where we lived, where our parents lived, where our siblings lived, their full addresses, their phone numbers, where they work our height our age our eye color um the number of square footage in my house the number of rooms in my house uh the fact that i live with my sister my sister's nickname that i call her um a bunch of stuff all our social medias on various accounts and it's like why the person who you know initially wanted to kind of just get back at me was freaked out and they went what's lower with this they posted this publicly and i've i mean why else would somebody send information about my family's location to somebody who says I'm suicidal. Goodness gracious. Wow. And not only did they send that, he sent, after he sent all the information, he kind of put leading words of, and maybe I could, maybe I should pull it up so I'm not getting it wrong, or maybe I'll just leave it. But he basically said, like, the only reason that Tupa and Red have gone away with this for so long is because no one's touched them in real life and no one's messed with them in real life. So almost goading them. He didn't say, hey, you should go violently attack them. But again, why would somebody give information like this on our families to somebody who's clearly suicidal and express that to them. And if you ask the person, they said they felt that Mike Disclosure wanted him to violently attack us and use that information. I can't think of any other reason why my mom's address, why Tupa's mom's address, why Tupa's brother's address needs to be sent to anyone, let alone somebody who's by their own account mentally unstable. So this is Lou Elizondo's personal friend. Now, that was such an egregious thing that Mike Disclosure was actually kicked off the show Disclosure tonight about five days ago. But me and Tupacabra have called on Lou Elizondo to, you know, prove you're not connected to this dude. Share with us this. And we know you have this information on this dude who's kind of quasi anonymous online for our legal and criminal proceedings. Because I've I've been in touch with my local sheriffs about this. I was actually just about to ask you, did you guys I mean, did it get to the point where you felt so threatened that you actually did get legal intervention or law enforcement intervention? This is all pretty fresh. I don't even think this is a week old now. But yeah, Tupacabra's talked to some lawyers. I've been in touch with my local sheriff's department since this all kind of kicked off on in October because they were making weird allusions to us committing suicide and stuff like that, too. And yeah, so we're kind of in the middle of all it right now. Wow. But yeah, we've called on Lou publicly to share with us this information to just kind of give him a chance to prove and he has yet to do that. We know he knows who this guy is. And yeah. And so, again, it's like I don't think I came into the topic just probably like a lot of people. I don't know when you got into, but I got into it in 2017 with the big old push because I didn't really been paying attention to it then. I just graduated college. I initially wanted to make documentaries on like coups and like regime changes from the CIA and stuff like that, like Guatemala, Iran, things like that, because that interests me. And then this all kind of kicked off. And, you know, there kind of is fair overlap just in terms of like psyops and stuff like that. You know what I mean? And like, so I got into that. And then again, yeah, like had I not covered this David Grosh doxing situation, it probably wouldn't have happened. Right. So that's kind of the genesis of it. And it just evolved from there. And it only happens that you've noticed. It's only happened when it comes to people who are connected to Luella Zondo. So that's where you and Tupacabra, and I apologize for throwing his name out there. Maybe I shouldn't do that. No, no, you're good. But, you know, that's where you guys feel like, in your experience, that there is a connection there because of the people who are with him. And you haven't seen Lou refuted or try to strike it down yet. So that's kind of where you guys are coming from then? Yeah. And, again, this behavior goes back years with not just me and Tupa, various other people. And it's always with Lou. You know what I mean? Manny 503, a documentary filmmaker, was doxxed and harassed by the same group. Lou, when on their show, was galvanizing them. we actually have evidence of lou elizondo with one of his own sock puppets um taunting area 503's girlfriend who's not a part of the ufo community back in 2022 when this was all going down because he made a documentary called who's lou about it and it gets really convoluted but just point being and i need to make a proper documentary series on this probably gonna be like five or six parts because there's so many different moving pieces to it but um yeah and again doesn't happen with grush doesn't happen with greer i've been fairly critical of greer you know i i personally don't That's another thing. They accused me of like working for Greer and it's like, no, I don't. I personally, you know, I think there's enough evidence to show that the phenomenon, there's some negative aspects of it. And I also, I've seen people who like do CE5 and then they kind of get like haunted more or less if you want to. So people who are saying it's all positive, it's all of in light, I kind of, I just don't buy that. Not saying that he's like an evil person or anything, but this idea of like, I'm critical of Greer. I'm critical of Kirkpatrick. I'm critical of Susan Goff. You know what I mean? I'm critical of a lot of people that when I am, I don't get this kind of pushback or like have to talk to my local sheriff's because I go online or putting pictures of my house. My sister saying we're going to lose our right to oxygen. Well, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, listen, you know, I'm glad that we spoke about that first. Like I said, not the normal UAP conversation, but it is one that I felt it was important to get out there because, you know, I do want to get the sides out there. And like I mentioned a little while ago, Lou's been on the show. if anybody's listening or maybe if Lou or anyone, someone connected to him, I invite him on again. Am I happy to talk to Lou again? I had a good experience with him. Um, he did. Yeah. He seems like a good, like it almost reminds me of like, like a Homelander dynamic or something where it's like, there's the public face of Lou of like Americana, you know, we're in doing this disclosure, but then there's this underbelly of not just lewd, the disclosure movement too. Right. There's the, there's the public face of disclosure and there's this kind of like gross, dirty underbelly that some people brush up against every now and then. Um, yeah, It might not seem like part of it, but to me, it's very much part of it. It affected David Grush. It affected this dynamic, changed the way the Grush rollout happened. And that's a big part of history. You know what I mean? So it might be far away from the phenomenon. And hopefully we'll get into that soon with some of the Jersey drone stuff and stuff. But it is still, you know, the counterintelligence, narrative control and messing with people goes back a year at Dodie Benowitz type situations. For sure. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we could talk two hours just on the counterintelligence and the PSYOP aspect of everything. and, you know, the spy versus spy and how that all kind of gets into this. But I guess just to kind of, you know, before we move away from that, just to say again that I appreciate you, you know, putting it out there and whatever anybody has to think about it or say about it, make it what you will. But I wanted to give you the opportunity to put it out there because I've seen a lot of the, for lack of a better term, yeah, you know, for lack of a better term, the drama. And I think that has a negative connotation, but that's the word. Yeah, and again, I do this, you know, I was in the game for probably three or four years before I really started, like, taking this on head on. And I do it to warn other people. Because I've seen, like, we talked in the back, like, Kelly Chase is another person, right, in the community who, like, she has this experiencer group that runs with J. King. And they seem to have brushed against something similar. Not necessarily with Lou Elizondo, but just people need to be aware of. And I almost feel like it's my duty, because I think I told you this in the back. I don't know if I said it here yet. that like i've had people who told me like hey i got into the phenomenon and this whole disclosure movement because of your content right like your documentaries like really helped convince me like oh there's something here going on maybe i should spend some of my effort and time like helping out with this stuff and then they've gotten doxxed in her house too so it almost feels like if i don't say like hey guys there's also like there's some wolves around this thing you know what i mean it almost feels like predatory or like i was part of it so that's why i personally speak out about it as much as I do. Thank you for being willing to even talk about it, man. No, of course. And I get it. I get why people don't want to talk about it. It's me too. Yeah, I get it. It's there's a lot of landmines with it. And, and like you said, you know, I knew, listen, I knew I was taking a risk talking about this with you because there are people who are not of right mind sometimes when it comes to this and they take it, you know, another way, like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you're on this side or that side. And now I'm going to come after you. I understand the risk. so hopefully nothing like that happens but I wanted to have the conversation at least part of this episode to have that conversation for the overall arching discussion and the message of let's not do this stuff and I know that sounds elementary and I know that sounds like if I'm talking to kids and saying oh don't do that that's bad, you're going to get grounded no seriously, we're talking about people's lives here and it doesn't have to get that serious I know the UFO topic is a serious thing, and I take it very seriously. I've been doing this show for four and a half years now. Yeah, I think so, right? Four and a half years. So it is a serious topic. There's a lot of ramifications that come from this topic, but nothing that serious where you have to threaten people's lives or dox their siblings who are minors. Yeah, my little sister shouldn't be crying because Snack was online. And then there's also the bigger implication, too, is this just kind of some rogue people online, or is this part of the bigger narrative control mechanism tied to the legacy programs directly? Who knows? Still up for debate, honestly. Yeah, so overall, I hope this stuff stops. I hope that you and Tupa, Kelly Chase, knows she's gone through it. Anybody else who's gone through it. Vetted, yeah. Vetted, right. Yeah, Patrick, exactly. Just spoke to him about it. Hopefully no one has to go through this stuff anymore and cooler heads can start to prevail because it's very unhealthy and it's nasty and it's dangerous. Agreed. Cool. Thank you, man, for covering that. Yeah. Let's get into the fun stuff now. Let's do it. All that said, right, exactly. Kind of like part two of the conversation. Just recently, actually, you had on Ron James, and I know that's somebody that we've both spoken to. I've never had him on the show before. I hope to have him on soon, but I've spoken to him a bunch of times in person. Documentarian himself, he's done a lot of work with MUFON. He's one of the top head honchos with MUFON. So talk about a little bit, Ron James, what you guys just spoke about within the documentary. Yeah, you should totally have him on. He did his documentary accidental cure thing a few years ago, and he's coming out with the second part of it, which is going to be released in April. So he's starting his little press tour, and I was very honored that I'm really close with one of his friends, Allie, who was also very much affected by this weird doxing harassment mechanism, but we'll shelve that for now. So he came in and was talking about the documentary that he has going on coming up. So some cool things he shared with me, some snippets of it. So it was kind of cool. Have you been to like every hearing, right? or how many hearings have you been to? The last two. I missed the first one, but with the last two that I went to. So yeah, the Elizondo one that you read, he was, one of the segments was that, showing that like him and his team were kind of texting Burleson some of the questions to ask and stuff like that. And shouts out Burleson. I saw people were like clowning Burleson for that, but I think it's really awesome how available he makes himself. Oh, and he does. And he takes it seriously and I always appreciate that about him too. And you know, like he's talked to me. He's talked to Greer. He's talked to Lou. He's not, you know, he's, there's some people he's talked to where I'm like, I don't know if you even should talk to them. Not because like, like they're evil or anything, but just because I don't know if their story's that valid, but he'll talk to anyone. He'll go down to Mexico to see the bugosphere, which I think is good. So that was kind of cool. Another thing. Yeah, I guess Ron James's little journey over some of this stuff. I think they talk about the Grush rollout and how some of that stuff had happened to, I haven't seen the full documentary, just saw parts of it. I know there was a part from our chat too, where they're talking about some of the metallurgical analysis done. And I guess, you know, like everyone. And I think they do deserve it. They call out Arrow in their thing because I guess Arrow is being a little shady with some of the metallurgical analysis of some of these UFO parts. So it was pretty cool. You should definitely get them on. Yeah, I absolutely want to. And so I actually have been in touch with Ali a little bit. You mentioned her. So yeah, I get run on here soon because I would love to talk about all that and everything's got going on in the documentary. I want to get your thoughts on. And actually, this is someone I'm going to have on pretty soon as well is Mark Christopher Lee. He and I are talking behind the scenes. Oh, okay. That's a name that I think people are starting to become familiar with. Speaking of filmmakers, he's a British filmmaker in the UFO field, and he really kind of hit the scene sprinting for anybody who didn't know him or his work previously. Within the past week or so, his name has gotten out there because he came out with a video that alleged that an inside source in the Trump administration has given him the info that Trump and his team have written a disclosure speech that was originally supposed to be read in front of the UN, but is now set to be read on July 8th, which will be this year the 79th anniversary of the Roswell crash. So what do you make of that? Again, and I'm going to have on Mark soon here, so I'll be able to ask him these questions. I was unaware of Mark until I saw that stuff, so I'm not really familiar with his work or anything like that. I will say it's a big claim. uh he definitely went hella viral with it yeah um but i think there is maybe something to be said about the trump administration uh broader topic and disclosure he's got one of the most stacked administrations in terms of people who've said like pro ufo stuff like he said a bunch of ufo stuff jd vance vice president said a bunch of ufo stuff tulsi gabbard the odni has said a bunch of stuff i think if anyone was going to do it it would be trump you know what i mean also there's this whole like uncle connection with his uncle was connected to some UFO stuff I don't know if people are aware of it you know there's his uncle looked into the Tesla files yep uh which is one of the more known things another lesser known thing is that um Trump's uncle John Trump was a scientific advisor to um gee I'm forgetting his name right now General Schmidt I believe his name is or something like that but a general who had some weird moving arounds during the Roswell incident and he was a radar technician and he helped develop radar early on uh during World War II for America So radar, UFO. There's a lot of history there. Yeah, I think I think John Trump was involved with MIT, if I remember correctly. Yes. Involved with MIT. Close friends with Van Avar Bush. OK. His name comes up a lot, too, in MJ-12, whether or not you believe it or not. He was still a big scientific mind at the time, helping develop the what, like the military industrial scientific complex. So there's that element. And which is a good point, by the way, just real quick, because I want to I want to highlight that. That isn't something that's brought up enough. And even on my part, I don't bring that up enough. And I think that people, and I don't, you know, and I always say this, I always preface it because Trump is like that trigger name where you either have people like, yeah, or people like, F you, I'm never talking to you again. I don't bring up politics. I don't do politics on the show. I just like to talk about the conversation and the topic like you and I were talking about just before with the doxing. And so the fact is he's the president and he's the one that's doing all this stuff right now when it comes to is he going to disclose it or not. So he's the one we're talking about. But that said, one thing that isn't spoken about enough is it's not like he's just some random dude who is interested or has a passing interest in the UFO conversation or who may have been briefed on it in his first term. Like his family has history with this. His family has history with some high-level stuff and that isn't brought up enough. So I glad you brought that up because I think it an important point when we talk about what he might do what might be valid or not valid whether or not he going to actually give disclosure on this It's worth noting. Yeah, and I don't know for sure, but if I was a betting man, I would say his uncle was read in at least tangentially on some stuff. Because, again, he was a radar technician. He was a scientific advisor to some of these big Army Air Force people. This is before it was even separated to the Air Force during the whole Roswell thing. Friends of the Navar Bush. again he the government asked him to investigate the tesla files after tesla died which you know what i mean if they're asking you to do that tesla was basically an alien at the time compared to everyone else in terms of intellect right so if they're asking this guy to make sense of this maybe they'd also ask him to make sense of if there was a crash in roswell you know what i mean and yeah so there's that and then he just had a lot of statements now he's kind of downplayed it at times too you know what i mean but i think especially when you compare you know 2017 happened under his watch although technically i think a lot of the ttsa people were prepping for kind of a hillary rollout right like predestined stuff like that but still there was a lot of disclosure during his first term it kind of died down during the biden administration believe it or not there wasn't as much there were still like nuggets here and there the gresh hearing uh but they were really transparent on what the the flyovers and all that um and then yeah tulsi gabbard said a lot but then i guess this kind of can maybe go into like another thing we want to talk about is i was kind of disappointed with him on the drone wave i was expecting him to maybe be a little more forthcoming about that. So I don't know for sure if it'll disclose or not, but I'm hopeful. No, and that's a fair comparison, actually. And we'll move to the drones on that note. It's a good segue for it, because on that kind of note that you just mentioned, you know, going back to, and I think it is important to draw that correlation, right? If he's going to actually be the president that gives that disclosure speech to come out in front of the presidential seal and say we are not alone if he's going to be the one to do it then if we're going to speculate about that we should also look to see how he handled the drone situation i think that's an important correlation to make because when you look back at december of 24 um you know a month before he takes office i remember covering this so i remember this this vividly where he's having that round table i believe it was at mar-a-lago if i if i remember correctly governors with the governors right a lot of the you know different governors around the country and they started talking about the drones and trump said specifically i don't know why biden is so uh secretive about it i'm gonna tell everybody what it is as soon as i get in and the very first press conference that his press secretary caroline levitt gave was here's what's happening on the drones it's fa approved nothing to see here go back to go back to your you know your your common day and it was very very odd because it was like one of those things that felt out of character so i think it is important to make that correlation between how he handled that versus how he might handle this because yeah like biden was kind of downplaying it too right and even a lot of the the maga ufo people like luna bless her heart i love luna but she was like calling out biden at the time and being like wow they're lying they're covering it up and then as soon as trump comes in and he kind of says the same thing it was just a lot of the people were like okay great faa approved it's like yeah yeah it was weird there was any and as far as i'm concerned it still has yet to be properly expand land and as far as i'm concerned it was like the biggest and most well documented ufo flap in american history because it covered multiple states you know i'm very proud of the work i did during that i interviewed a bunch of witnesses you did right you you did a lot of work on this so talk about that a little bit what did you find out super activated i'm on excel and you know what i would do is if somebody and because i'm on news account now right i post all the news and latest sightings and stuff like that if i saw someone have like a viral sighting i would just hit them up and be like hey let's do an interview real quick i'll try and get it as close as i could to the siding a lot of the times i would do it on spaces so it's kind of like less pressure for people if they're not like used to being on camera and whatnot it's kind of just like a phone call yeah um so i interviewed a bunch of people probably like 20 plus different witnesses and some of them some of them were like some of the very viral posts that went viral and stuff like that and yeah i mean after talking to all these people well one they were seeing a lot of stuff a lot of similarities i do believe these things were like shape-shifting you know what i mean which is kind of controversial now i do believe they were like mimicking stuff well you spoke to a lot people about it so i mean you're able to you know a pretty educated opinion and that's that's what you came out with that's interesting yeah and um something else too there was a lot of weird kind of narrative control stuff too which you know like i told you uh i was originally going to do documentaries about like regime changes and narrative control and like psyops and like how can like how can we flip a country without putting boots on the ground by just influencing their media like we did in places like guatemala and stuff like that um and so when i see narrative control and i see it a lot in the ufo topic to me it's its own little independent like data point of like oftentimes like authenticity so i was interviewing people who i interviewed this one girl who had her post go really viral because she was filming them in florida on facebook live uh facebook uh prevented her from going live for like a month with no explanation and then her local news came out and interviewed her and they basically like cut up the interview to make it seem like she was debunking her own sighting when that wasn't what she did and so like there was a lot of cases like that i interviewed another dude who was near picatinny arsenal the epicenter of it yeah and he had filmed a this one was interesting because it was a orb it wasn't a shape-shifting one it wasn't metallic it was a white orb in the rain that was just kind of flying through the rain cutting through it almost like butter like just nonchalantly you could see the trees like going like this and i was able to geolocate and he shared with me his location he shared with me his ring camera footage of himself filming it so i was able to verify the date and time was that it was like december 10th middle of the drone wave less than 10 miles away from picatinny arsenal which was one of the epicenters of the drone wave in new jersey and he um posted about it we did a great interview about an hour interview on spaces talking about his sighting what the vibe was out there in new jersey and he ended up getting visited by the fbi really and then his his video got taken down on every social media and it wasn't for him and actually funny enough my channel my youtube channel about taking down for about five months uh at the tail end of the drone wave is that right kind of related to it but basically what had happened was this company called viral hog oh yeah okay claimed his video without him even knowing and so they took it down on every social media so i'm almost wondering like was that just the government kind of like using this third party system so it's like their hands aren't clean on it doesn't say the cia took your video down it's the shady company that does all the shady stuff is doing it but he was a little spooked out because it happened the night before the fbi came to visit him and then he got his informational docs and stuff not by the loot crew or anything like that but just online and he just got freaked out by that so there was a lot of little stories like that and again like i said my own channel got taken down during the drone wave on some like false claims and stuff like that which might have been just their ai automation system but it also might have been not because i was covering it really indepthly um i had another another guy in new york who had a similar experience where he is interviewed by the news and they chopped up his interview to make it seem like he was debunking it when he wasn't so it was just very weird very weird instances like that and there's still you know although the government's kind of like trying to be like oh it was nothing we have statements from um norad generals right it's like that these things were flying over our military bases uh unimpeded which just shouldn't be happening and there was over like 30 plus states had sightings over many military bases airports had to be shut down emergency services had to be altered like people literally got in car crashes and couldn't get medically evacuated because of drones and so So it's like, was that really just a government plan? And I still feel like there wasn't really a proper explanation. I don't know. What do you think of it all? We were in the community. You saw it all go down. I don't know if you're in a hot spot or anything, but what do you think? Not really. Yeah, not really in a hot spot because in South Florida we had a couple of things. I think actually I remember that girl you were talking about who was on Facebook Live. One of the things that sticks with me with that, actually two things. Number one is it's still one of the things I get the most questions about. friends or family or anybody who's a casual observer and knows what I do with this show, you'll be like, hey, what did you think about that drone stuff? Like, because we never really got closure. Now, we can say we got closure because of what Caroline Levitt said when she came out after Trump came into office that, you know, nothing to see here. But the thing that sticks with me, and I'm glad you asked that, because one of my sources who's in military intelligence, you may have heard the name before on my show, is Anthony Williams. He spoke to me about this, and he said this, I believe, on my show last year, that the thing that has scared him the most in his career was that, was when the Trump administration came out and said nothing to see here. And that stuck with me, and it still sticks with me, because this is a guy that is not just, you know, his career hasn't been to sit behind a computer and look at videos. He was on multiple tours. He was in Afghanistan. I mean, this is a guy that is the real deal and saw the real stuff over the years in the Middle East. And for him to tell me that the thing that scared him the most in his career was to watch how the Trump administration handled the drones when they first came in, was to come out and say, nothing to see here, FAA approved. We all knew that was a lie. And we just couldn't understand why. So it was two things that are still unsettling to me. was one, they came in and found out, oh, this is really secret tech that we can't talk about. And it's our own stuff. And it's super, super sensitive. So we just have to say that, you know, it's all good. Don't worry about it. Or two, it's so far advanced. It's not ours. And it's over anything that we can even deal with. And we can't do a thing about it as it's flying over our nuclear installations, as it's flying over our military installations. as it's flying over sensitive civilian areas and airports, and we can't do a damn thing about it. And it's not ours, and we don't know who it belongs to, so now we just have to say there's nothing to see here. The explanations are scary. That's what kind of was surreal about it, and we talked about this too, that you're a fan of the history, a lot of us I think are. When I make documentaries about the 1966 wave and the Levitt lights and some of these previous waves, the lights over D.C., it was interesting to actually kind of live through a flap because it's like when you look at it through the historical lens like oh wow like how come the government didn't you know share with the people the truth but when it was happening bro i was a little like uneasy as it was going on day after day and there's all these sightings and no one can really explain what the hell is going on and again i don't know exactly what it was i lean nh i'm open to it being maybe chinese reverse tech maybe it's ours maybe it was rogue ai who knows but like that's something that like i didn't i didn't really comprehend until we lived through a flap of like oh this is making me actually uncomfortable because it wasn't just that i was interviewing people who were like these things are over my house and they're scaring me right you know what i mean they're like i don't know what these are um i interviewed a couple out in arizona they saw one they saw a pretty crazy sightings and like they're kind of far away but then like two weeks later they saw another one like over their own neighborhood and like you could hear the fear in these people they're like dude what the hell is this like this isn't like fun anymore it's not like i just saw a shooting star and it's like woo woo it's like why is there something over my neighbor's house and why is nobody doing anything about it like what the hell is that right you know and so that's something that wasn't really that i didn't really understand until living through one like that and something too and i'll plug i do have two drone dogs out so far on the new jersey wave uh working on my third one soon but there's just a string of kind of similar type mystery drone which i kind of do like that name it's kind of cute and campy like flying saucer for ufos but uh this has kind of been going on for a while but 2019 there was a similar wave in 2020 in colorado right i don't know if you remember that one um there was a kind of another one and i think 2023 in arizona during the summer just very briefly so there is a kind of a history of this and then the other thing too i want to talk about is the the whole like matthew levels burger thing we're in the middle of it we have a green beret who i personally don't think killed himself uh but he has this whole manifesto saying And he blew up the truck or the truck blew up in front of Trump Tower, the Tesla truck, saying that, like, these are Chinese reverse engineer tech. And he's linking back to Area 51 and like antiragravitics and stuff like that. And it's like, yeah, he wrote that whole memo, supposedly. Right. Yeah. So it's like there's so many weird things going on during this flap of like it just it blows my mind that we lived through that. And that even happened. And then it just goes away and it goes away. And it's great. You think that it's like we're always like, oh, if there was a flap, like they couldn't get away with the 1966 cover up stuff today. It's like, no, no, they could. There's hundreds of videos. Bunch of people saw him. Politicians saw him. Yeah. Mayor said there was a cover up going on and they were able to just, you know, boom onto the next thing. So it's pretty crazy. It is. You're right. And that's interesting. I'm glad it came up. I didn't know that there were people were having those experiences where basically they were kind of being harassed and having their footage cut up by local news stations and having their accounts erased. I had never heard any of that. So that's that's kind of startling, too. Something else too that was underreported is these things were spraying and I'm 100% confident. Was that really happening? Yeah, it was. I interviewed multiple people who said they saw it spraying. Somebody in my Discord said one of their mom's tenant got sprayed and had to go to the hospital. There was a few Reddit accounts like that too. So it's like I don't think they were necessarily trying to hurt people. It might have just been some like indirect kind of you just happen to be at the wrong place, wrong time. But yeah, I collected probably like five to ten various testimonies of people being like, no they were spraying things to the ground a mist so it's like what the hell is that do you think that was now just to play devil's advocate on that real quick because i did want to get to a few other things before we were done but yeah just um i mean could that be explained by some type of you know contrail or maybe mass hysteria where people are thinking they're seeing something and they're thinking they're being infected maybe i mean there definitely was a lot of people i think who were just seeing normal planes who were kind of doing it but right at the same time no i think there was too many people reporting the mist and when you have like another another classic example of that was the whole coast guard yeah sighting where these coast guard people say that they saw like 13 to 30 mystery drones and mind you these are really highly trained uh heroes honestly they they're out here defending our borders and like saving people if their their boat goes under in like really crazy conditions so they're not like idiots right and so when you have like the white house came out and said oh they just misidentified planes it's like what can we even believe from the official narrative if they're going to say that some coast guard people and police officers and multiple like you know respectable members of society just saw planes in an area that they live all that they've lived the everyone knows what planes are you know people like those like trained observers if you will know what planes are so it's like what can you even believe like they say that the the the government says there was this faa planes and they also say they weren't spraying so it's like can we believe either you know well i i guess to um i guess to put a bow on that one, if you will. We can agree, and I think a lot of people agree, and I will say this, just in my opinion, I don't think we were told the truth about that. And the question is, why? And we still don't know what it was. So it's wild. But to rehash some of that, you remember how incredible some of that stuff was, and we still don't really have an answer, a true answer as to what it was and why it was happening. Incredible. This is a connection here, Red, that I've always found fascinating. Some people scoff at it. I find it where I get intrigued and I'm like, I wonder if there is something to this. And that is the possible connection to Bigfoot and UFOs. I know this is something that you've kind of dived into before. Do you think there's something there? I've clipped some stuff up about it recently. People think it's silly. I find it fascinating. I haven't done a deep, deep dive on Bigfoot, but you know, my gut instinct is yes. Because there's a lot of people who report like orbs and especially after kind of the drone of some of the shape shifting stuff where it's like, and somebody had a theory that, oh, that's just like the aliens kind of when they, when they're doing their stuff, kind of almost like the movie Avatar, like, you know what I mean? Like they're to kind of blend in because there's this weird connection where a lot of people report seeing orbs and Bigfoot and stuff like that. And there's one story I have from the drone wave of witness where it's a secondhand story, but they said that their friend was chasing a man that looked the friend was a cop. And apparently he called this other guy crying, telling him the story that he had seen a man in the woods and he looked sketched in like almost kind of like a men in black situation, but he was wearing a hoodie, not like a black tie. and then the man started running in the woods and then so the guy chased him and apparently this dude was like a linebacker type uh jock bro like super athletic super in shape got out ran by him and as the guy's running he notices that the tracks go from human feet to a bike to a single bike thing to disappears and he sees an orb fly off so it almost seems like these these things are shape-shifting and maybe one of the things they shape-shift is to these like weird humanoid beasts you know that's i know that's super out there but why not you know if they could shapeshift into planes and it almost kind of reminds me of the men in black stories that you hear about where like people will say like they were they seemed human but like almost they didn't know how to be human yeah you know what i mean so it's like maybe it was a shapeshifted orb trying to be human and maybe that same thing happens to big but i don't know it's fun to think about it is what do you think right i honestly it's one of those things that's it's it's kind of confounding. Like, I don't know what to do with it. I feel like there could be a connection there somehow. You know, as far as the orbs too, you know, the assertion has been made that maybe some of these orbs are even biological, right? Maybe we're looking at some of these orbs in the wrong way where we saying these are craft Maybe some are but maybe some aren It could be and this is one aspect of it that i find interesting it could be that some of these things that we see in the sky might actually be biological i mean does that make sense or you think i open to it i'm open to maybe they're uh you know the hellfire video which i'm curious what you think about it the one that they showed at the last hearing yep that almost seems to move like an animal more than it does like a craft it seems like some kind of plasma being i know some people will say it's a balloon another interesting data point is that was like two weeks before the drone wave kicked off in new jersey and i wondered is that connected was that their way of saying don't try and shoot us bro but some of these things do seem more like like they're a living entity than like uh an alien piloting a craft i do think there's a plethora of things going on i think kind of both are in the mix yeah but as the orbs go yeah what do you think well uh just just to speak on the hellfire uh video i i can say under good authority that that was a real video i know a lot of people didn't like to hear that i was attacked online when i came out and said that um shocker that i get attacked online but that's just the way it goes but i mean i i'm not afraid to say that now i wasn't afraid to say it then i have it on very good authority that uh that was the real deal that it came off of a dod network and it was given to burleson in um you know in a shadow way it was it was a dead drop is what he called it and he played it your source what Did they understand it to be like a plasma orb type situation? They didn't give a specific on what type of thing we were looking at, whether it was a craft, whether it was a plasma orb or something else. But they confirmed that that was a missile that hit it, that it was unaffected, and that it did keep flying. I know Jeremy Corbell attested to this too, that there was more footage that we didn't see. There was about another five minutes of that video. and again on good authority that's the whatever that was kept flying and did not fall into the ocean so again another one of those things that you know you can talk to somebody and say oh that was a balloon and I can tell you why it was a balloon yeah but I can tell you why it wasn't a balloon because it was studied by the intelligence community and it came off a DOD network and those people saw the extra five minutes and it wasn't a balloon that popped that fell into the ocean that's just a fact yeah and even in the video they showed us it flies around for I think about a minute and a half after two so it's like and also that was the first time there was ever a hellfire to any kind of projectile like uh if it was a balloon ever filmed in a active war zone ever and there's a good article on the war zone where they're not even ufo people where they just kind of highlight that that in itself is an anomaly so yeah true when people are saying oh that's just a balloon show me another video of an inactive war zone a hellfire missile shooting a balloon they can't there isn't one yeah no it's it's a great point because uh one thing that's overlooked on that a lot is the fact that that was a side mission. The drone that fired, or the apparatus anyway, that fired that missile, it wasn't on mission to go after that object. That object was not the mission, right? There was another mission that missile was meant for. But for whatever reason, the people controlling that airspace felt like, hey, that's worth going after. We don't like that that's there. And they shot the missile that's meant for tanks, that's meant to go through, you know, armor, and it didn't do anything to it. So one of those mysteries that we still don't know exactly what it was. But we like to think there are some people online who like to think they know what it was. And I don't know why that is. Is that a psychological thing that people just like to think they have the answers and that makes them feel better? I'll be honest. For me personally, I don't know about you, but when it really, like, hit me that this is all real, it kind of messed with my head for a little bit. it kind of made me like question everything it kind of made me a little uncomfortable with just even the nature of reality of like one the government can lie to us on such a degree and like i bought it hook line and sinker for years and then two we really don't know what these things are and i personally do think there's a negative element when you get into like the missing 411 and some of these cattle mutilations and human mutilations and it's like it took me a while to kind of get to a point of like okay like this is just a part of reality but for like two or three months, I was like very much like, I felt uncomfortable just the day to day. So I've heard other people explain that. I don't know if you had that, but I think that's kind of a defense mechanism for people to not be in that place. Cause it does, it can mess with your psych, especially if you go from zero to a hundred, like you don't think about any of this stuff at all. And then all of a sudden we can't, our best, the best military in the world is powerless to a little orb. What else could that orb do if it wanted to, you know what I mean? Right. No, it's true. Maybe it is some type of psychological mechanism. And we just like to think we have all the answers, which we don't, by the way, even though some people like to think they do. Before we're done, Red, I did want to ask you about some of the ancient stuff, because I'm interested. I know you're interested in it. And one of the things that's come up a lot now, and kudos to Jay Anderson, because I know he's really into this and he's been on Joe Rogan talking about it, is some of the things that might be under the pyramids. I love this subject. I love this topic because this even goes back for me. One of the things that got me into the UFO topic years ago was the readings, the remote viewing sessions of Edgar Cayce. And one of the things that he saw, according to his session, was this supposed lost ancient technology from Atlantis under the Sphinx. And so ever since then, I've been hooked. What is it with ancient Egypt? and now we come to find out that according to these scans there might be some type of structures underneath the pyramids I don't get to talk about this enough I want to bring it up with you because I find it super super interesting so what do you think about all that and you gotta get Jay on I don't know if you had one he's super cool and approachable yeah I'm not as deep on him as this but I will say I do think there is a lot of evidence and not just there like in Peru and some of these other places that like what we're being told about humanity's history is not accurate and i just find that very suspicious like why does it matter why can't we be straight up with it and here's here's something i can give you a lot of the mechanisms of the efo cover-up and the kind of cover-up of that element are one and one the same for example i'll get specific with you yeah uh 1969 1970 carl sagan right at the close of blue book right at the close of the conden committee they did um the uh american uh association for the advancement of science is the oldest civilian scientific organization in america and um a lot of uh like scientific uh developments have come through there and a lot of like they have an annual conference right and there's a lot of stuff going on like that it's like the one of the more formal mechanisms of science um in the late 60s and 70s they had a like a referendum on ufos where they determined and there was air force influence at the time that like this is pseudoscience this is not a real scientific endeavor we're not going to have universities promote it we're not going to treat it as a real thing one or two years later they had a similar referendum on this kind of ancient cycles of civilization there's a man named emmanuel velikovsky who kind of was like of the gram an older type of like the graham hancock type view of history and carl sagan was also part of that and part of basically having the american scientific community be like there's nothing to this whole kind of notion of like cataclysms or you know we know what our history is and i just don't think we do and i think there's a lot of effort put in place with like what's that guy's name uh zawas or whatever out in egypt and stuff like that there's a lot of effort in place to obstruct and obfuscate our true origins and i just find that again like i said the narrative control to me oftentimes it's one of the biggest little indicators of stuff and there definitely is like weird narrative control around the ancient civilization stuff so i think it's uh super fascinating i love what jay's doing hopefully one day i get to go out to egypt with him that'd be cool same my hat in front of the pyramid yeah what do you think about it all i i love the idea that there might be something there you know that it maybe goes back to some type of um ancient knowledge that allowed them to build these structures underneath the pyramid and also super frustrating because it's like, well, why don't we know about it if they knew about it 3,000 or 4,000 years ago, whatever it may be? Were these power plants? What was this? I mean, I love it. I'm with you. I think we should all go out to Egypt and investigate this. I know Patrick was talking about it again, so let's just all get together in a big group. That'd be fun. We got there and do it. I love it. Before we go here, Red, I wanted to ask you about something that recently came out, and it wasn't widely reported. It was just like a Reddit thing, and some people noticed it, but I thought it was really compelling. this idea that there might be a giant UFO buried under the ice of Greenland. Now, of course, Greenland's in the news a lot, right, because of the Trump administration, what they're trying to do and acquire land there. And this kind of goes back to what Ross Coldhart had spoken about, that people still mention where he gave out this information that he said he was told that there's this giant UFO buried somewhere, and there was an installation built around it because it was too big to move. now there's some type of speculation because of this Reddit post that was deleted by the way, that people took screenshots of and that's why we know about it, that says and gave detail and coordinates about like here's this giant UFO it's buried under the ice of Greenland what do you make of this? It's definitely fun I don't know, my gut tells me that there's something more to why Trump wants Greenland and maybe it does have to go into esoteric things but I don't know it would be a perfect place for it apparently there's a lot of UFO sightings around there too but yeah I don't know maybe Ross was just told something like BS to like some intelligence community like mumbo jumbo I think he should just come out and say it I don't think he's putting anyone's life just say it if you got it wrong and then we know that it was like you were played with but yeah I don't know man I don't know enough one way or the other it's definitely fun and that post definitely did go viral it did it's just one of those I think you're right. It's one of those fun things to consider. Could that really be true? Could there really be something under there? Maybe it has to do with the movie Greenland where they have these secret bases, which I love that movie. They say Greenland was one of the places that survives the pole shift in that movie, so maybe it has something to do with that. I just love throwing theories out there. It's fun to throw stuff against the wall. We're all little conspiracy theorists. We love all this stuff. It's so much fun. Very last thing, Red, and I've got to ask it. I'd be crazy if I didn't ask it. the work that you and Tupacabra do with AI videos is magnificent. I mean, it's like, if there's one thing I won't be unbiased about, it's giving you guys kudos about the work you guys do. The AI videos that you guys put together are so great. And Saw Up Anime, too. Yes. They're our other friend. Yeah, I mean, you guys, it's so much fun to watch, and you do some of the things with all the UFO characters and figures in ufology. So I'm just going to put it out there. Can I be in your next video? yes I will do it yes the next one I do I will and it's so fun I feel so blessed as like a artist right and it's not that hard to learn too I'd be more than happy to teach you any of the stuff because it makes memeing so much fun and stuff like that it's amazing the stuff you guys put out with that we're at a time period we're very lucky to like live with this and yeah Tupa makes really great stuff Saab Anime makes great stuff but yeah if I do another one of those kind of like big montage ones and I'll think of one I for sure will put you in I love it yes I love it I made it I'm in. Hell yeah, dude. Well, Red Panda Koala, thanks so much for doing this, man. You know, I know, again, the big social media presence that you have. And I know you've gone through a lot with everything that we spoke about at the start of the episode. But I'm also glad that we got to talk about the fun stuff, too. I really enjoyed the conversation. I'm pretty fun, right? Yeah. I feel like some people try and ping me as this, like, menace or, like, I hate UFOs or I hate people. It's like, no, I think I'm a pretty normal fun guy who just, you know, kind of saw some of the ugly stuff and was just like, ah, I'll speak out about it openly. Can I ask that real quick, actually? I'm sorry to put this further. Why do you think that is? Because I did, and I want to put this out there. I had tweeted out a few days before you and I spoke. I'm like, I'm going to interview Red Panda Koala. I'm excited to have the conversation. And there were some people who were like, oh, cool. Can't wait to hear it. And there were some people like, never listen to you again. I can't believe you're going to have him on. Why do people react? Why do you think people have that reaction? we think part of it is artificial uh it kind of goes back to the lou stuff where you know to a lot of people for better or worse louis kind of become a messiah figure you know and it's like people have experiences they have ufo experiences and then there's this dude who's kind of like helping validate that for the whole world so if they view me as just attacking him which again like i said i don't think i am they kind of almost view it as me attacking disclosure which i also don't think i am so that's kind of where i think some of that energy comes from but yeah i don't think it's accurate and uh i like like i said i think i'm pretty chill dude pretty fun you know i'm sure if we ever had a conference together we'd have a beer together and have a great time yeah i'm down man i'm always down for a beer so well thanks again for coming on and i look forward to the video and so this this was a lot of fun yeah and then another one i have coming up too which will maybe next time when i drop it maybe you'll have me back i got my steven spielberg close encounters documentary i'm working on it's like an hour and a half oh very cool gonna be epic goes through his whole early life and ufo stuff with the movie coming out it'll be it'll be great but yeah we'll save that for another day yeah um absolutely thank you steven absolutely red panda koala thanks for coming on here to uap and we'll talk again soon appreciate the time peace thanks well thanks again to red panda koala for doing that i really did enjoy the conversation and that's why i'm always a big proponent of talking to people because it is true i got a lot of flack on twitter for like why are you talking to this guy i can't believe we're gonna interview him and that's happened before with different people that i've brought on but i've always been a big proponent of, let's just talk. Like, I want to learn about you. I want to learn about what's going on, what you're experiencing. Actually, funny enough, the same thing happened when I was telling people that I was going to interview Lou Elizondo last year. There was half of it was, oh, awesome, can't wait to hear it. And the other half was, I can't believe you're talking to that guy. So, like, you know, you can't win one way or the other. That's my thing, though. Whether you like it or not, and anybody who's on social media who gets on me for this, I want to talk to people. So I can bring the conversations to you and so I can learn from myself what's happening. And I can, along with you, make an educated and informed decision about, well, maybe I shouldn't be talking to this person. Or, okay, now I learn more and I understand what's happening and I did like talking to that person. And hopefully you get something out of that as well. And that's the whole point here. But outside of that, I did want to touch on the Greenland thing real quick too, just at the risk of coming across as not informed. I understand why, you know, President Trump wants to acquire Greenland. If you're talking about the strategic, the tactical side of things, yes, totally understand it. And I know Red does as well when it comes to the proximity towards Russia and defense systems and everything like that, having defense systems there. I get it. I understand. And, of course, the minerals and the natural resources. I understand the tactical, the practical side of everything. So I didn't want to come across as like, oh, I have no idea what's happening. I do. But we wanted to talk about the other side. You know, what else might be going on that they're not telling us? And that's the fun stuff that we like to talk about. So I just wanted to put out, yes, I do understand the practical side as well. And you heard me talk about Mark Christopher Lee when we spoke about, you know, his report that Trump is going to disclose in July. July 8th, to be exact, was the date that he reported. I am talking to Mark behind the scenes, so I do plan on bringing him on here. So hopefully we can have that discussion and get the questions answered right here on UAP. so hope to have him on very soon as well hopefully in the next episode so stay tuned for that but that's it for now I won't extend it anymore thanks for sticking around here on this extended edition of UAP really glad I got to do that with Red I really did enjoy the whole conversation I hope you did too and I can't wait to be in one of his AI videos with the rest of the cast and crew of Ufology I love those videos they put out are really good if you've never seen them follow along on Twitter to see what they're doing there if you haven't seen some of the stuff that they do and follow along on Twitter with me at UAPodcast850 on social media, across the board there at UAPodcast on YouTube. I'll have this whole interview up there as well. I put the entire interview with myself and Patrick. That entire video is on YouTube if you want to check out kind of like behind-the-scenes, unedited version, straight-through interview with myself and Patrick. That entire thing is on YouTube if you want to check that out at UAPodcast. so follow along on social and of course the show wherever you get your podcasts download subscribe spread the word if you have friends or family who you think might like the show let them know that this is going on that I've been doing it for a while and maybe they'll like it so feel free to spread the word as well always appreciate that find it wherever you get your podcast literally on any of the big platforms just search UAP and it should come up right there and rate it five stars I always appreciate that as well if you don't mind if you think it's worthy. I'm not asking you if you hate it, then by all means, you know, you don't think it deserves it. But if you think I'm worthy of five stars and what I do here and you haven't rated it on the podcast platforms, then I appreciate that too. But on that note, that will do it for now. We can't wait to come back again with some new episodes and talk about all the things going on because there really is a lot. It's almost hard to keep up with some of the things happening, but I'm going to do my best coming up here soon on UAP. So thank you again for everything, for all your support, for continuing waiting to come back here for the show because it does mean the world to me so thank you so much so until next time it is steven dean you're here saying be well thank you and we'll talk again soon right here on uap the unidentified alien podcast Thank you.