STEP-BRO CHARGED? CRUISE TEEN ANNA KEPNER DEAD AFTER SUSPECT SKIPS DAILY DRUG COCKTAIL

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The stepbrother charged, according to reports, after Cruz girl, a beautiful teen cheerleader, Anna Kepner found dead. Her body stuffed under a twin bed, covered in life vests on a cruise with her grandparents. She's found dead in her own room after the suspect, the stepbrother, skips his daily drug cocktail. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. A beautiful young teen cheerleader found dead on a cruise ship. Her body there for hours and hours before anyone even notices she's missing. Where were the parents for Pete's sake? Still so many questions, but tonight we are learning that the stepbrother has been taken to federal court and according to the dad, Anna Kepner's bio dad, he was charged under federal law. Now this is what Anna Kepner's biological mom says. I got some news today on my daughter's case. They are going to charge her 16 year old stepbrother for first degree murder. And there's going to be some other charges brought, but I'm not sure what they are yet until they tell me I don't know. So that is one of the charges. And as soon as I know more, I will let you guys know. Thanks for your support. Now, according to her, that is Anna Kepner's biological mother. And according to Anna Kepner's biological father, who is the stepbrother's stepdad is very confusing. Charges have been lodged. Now, what are the charges straight out to Greg Moore's joining us veteran criminal defense attorney joining us out of the Palm Beach, Florida area. He is the author of The Untested on Amazon, and he founded Morse legal at Morse legal.com. Greg Morse, I imagine that the confusion that is surrounding the charges generates from the fact that he is a juvenile and the media cannot get their mitts on any of those charges or anything that went down in juvenile court, even federal. Well, that's correct. When someone is charged as a juvenile in federal court or state court, it's confidential. It's the public doesn't have access to it through the court system. With regard to this, and I would suggest that we don't even know if there's a grand jury indictment here yet. And I would also suggest if there are charges, it's probably not murder at this point because the federal government generally charges people 15 and over as adults for serious violent felonies. So yes, this stuff is confidential when someone's a juvenile once they're charged as an adult, it does not stay confidential, and it can be available in the system. What could have happened is the US Attorney's Office talked to family and indicated they might be filing a quote criminal complaint, which proceeds an indictment, but the federal government still has to go to a grand jury. And even if you're an adult, that those proceedings will be sealed until you make your initial appearance in court and then it gets opened up. But if he's charged with something like tampering with evidence or they're going to do that or or something that's not violent but related to the death of this young lady, then it would stay confidential throughout the case except for the lawyers involved and the judge. Greg Morse up please. Greg Morse. You just said that the stepbrother now almost 17 can be tried as an adult could be charged with tampering with evidence. That's a yes no Morse. Did you just say that? Not as an adult for tampering with evidence, he would still likely be charged as a juvenile for that. If he were charged with murder, he there's a good chance he would be charged as an adult like the feds do and most states do when you're over 15 or in Florida over 13. To just got Morgan joining us Professor forensics, Jacksonville State University. He is the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He is the star of a hit podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. But for our purposes tonight, he is a death investigator who has investigated over, believe it or not, 10,000 death scenes of all sorts, be they accidental, natural causes, suicide, unexplained or in this case, homicide. Did you just hear Greg Morse describe a potential charge against the stepbrother is tampering with evidence? That's a yes no. Did you hear that? Yes, I did. What would that evidence be that evidence is Anna Kepner's dead body? I want to talk about her body as quote evidence. You got that right. And let me explain something because people take offense many times to that. But you have to as a death investigator, you have to think of the decedent as the little hub of the wheel with all the spokes coming off of it. All the other evidence. The body is the central focus of this case. By the fact that she was taken stuffed under this bed, covered with blankets, and then these life jackets are put on top of her. You're trying to hide evidence at that point in time. That's why they're classifying it like this. We're not talking about scrubbing a scene or removing a weapon or anything like that. We're talking about taking this young girl's body after she has been murdered and stuffed under the bed and hidden from anyone to find her. And all kinds of things happen relative to that. You can compromise evidence. You know, there's a delay in being able to get to the body bodies decompose all these sorts of things. So that in and of itself constitutes tampering. Yeah, it's just, you know, Morse. I know that when all of us lawyers start speaking lawyer talk, tampering with evidence is felony charge. But the evidence we're talking about here is Anna Kettler's body. That's a little harsh based on based on the base. No, what I mean by that is based on the information so far is these people shared a room and then the leap is he must have killed this young girl, his step sister that there's a far stretch from just because you were in a room with someone on a cruise ship where the half brother shared the room to there's a lot of people on the cruise ship. Doesn't mean because he shared a room with her that he committed the murder of her at all. There's no evidence that it actually was a murder at this point yet. Could it be a suicide? There's a host of answered questions with regard to how this girl died and to just link to the step brother is a stretch at this point. And he could have come in the room and saw his step sister freaked out. He's a 16 year old teenager didn't know what to do had nothing to do with her death and hit the body or he came in the room and the body was hidden under the bed. He noticed it and freaked out because again, he's a teenager. So there's not enough say he committed the murder here. Also, you know, he could have made a statement and now the feds are trying to charge him with obstruction just so they can get leverage to keep him on the hook to continue to talk and try to find out more information. So so there's a host of different things, but there's no evidence to say that he actually killed this girl or nothing that's come out yet that would point to that other than he happened to be in the room with her at some point. That's it. Happened to be in the room with her. But before I disprove everything you just said, why do you say these words like they're poison like they're dirt in your mouth. The feds did it just to get leverage to get him on the hook. So he would talk. That's what they did. I mean, the way you said that sounds like a nasty word. No, it's just the matter of it. Nothing. That's the feds choice. But my that's the federal government's choice on how they want to investigate. It's the feds job. Don't you want murder solved? Their choice. Well, sure people want murder solved and they generally do get solved. And you know, you're on a cruise ship. There's a lot of data points to tell this story, whether it be cameras, whether it be room keys, things that are record data and movement. So you know, the story will be told. But to say the step brother did it simply because he shared a room with the girl is a stretch at this point. And you know, the feds then probably don't have much to link them to the murder. So they want to, you know, see what they can come up with. So, you know, that's what they do. There's nothing wrong with that. That's their prerogative to do it. They try to solve crimes. And it's one of the ways they do it. They hold on to someone they think has more information than they're letting on. And if they can put any charge against them, they will. Joe Scott, could you take Mr. Morse to school and give him a lesson on why Anna Kettner, the teen girl cheerleader, the one scrubbed in sunshine, the one that goes to the Christian Academy, the one that still was wearing braces for Pete's sake, the one that was caught dancing at the celebration party with her grandparents, her last dance. There she is. Look at her. Just sweet as sunshine out there with granny kicking up her little feet. Yeah, she's dead. That's my friend Nick Capo 609 on TikTok. Could you explain to Morse why it is impossible that this little girl committed suicide based on the autopsy? Well, I can tell you what the board certified forensic pathologist said at the Dade County Miami Dade County Medical examiner's office, they classified her death as asphyxiation and she sustained blunt force trauma Nancy and here's the thing. They talked about they talked about relative to her that her body had sustained what is referred to as trauma related to an arm bar. Take a look. Okay, so the leading edge of the arm right here, what they're saying is that the arm was placed over her throat and pressed down. Okay, there's a reason why cops can't use arm bars and restraint. You know what it is? It isphyxiax people. It can also crush the larynx. So whatever has happened, we don't have a lot more detail. This transfer of energy from someone's body pressing down. Everybody at home just think about having having this area of your throat pressed down on and how hard it would be to breathe. You sustain that pressure over and over and over again. Sooner or later, you're going to run out of air. Now they're saying blunt force trauma as well. Many times with these cases, what you see with blunt force trauma, you're seeing somebody attempting to subdue somebody else literally beating them into submission. Now, granted, I don't know who did it. But I know that the people at the ME's office, this is the conclusion they arrived at. And Nancy, if you like that one, I've got another one for you. Dig this. If there is this level of contact on the surface of her neck, and you probably know where I'm going here, you're going to have transfer from here to there. I'm just hoping that they have swapped her neck that collected everything in this space, because you can have genetic connectivity here. And what I mean by that, at a molecular level, we're talking molecular evidence, because this is very, very intimate Nancy. And people will say, well, he occupied the same space, you know, and maybe she just happened to wind up with a deposition of his DNA on the on the anterior aspect of her throat. That's going to be hard for any jury to swallow. We are also learning, are we not? Joseph Scott Morgan, that there was no indication that there were drugs or alcohol in Anakettner system. Yes. Yeah, you're right. And how was that determined? Well, they would have drawn, we draw toxicology at every single autopsy, and we refer to it as a standard panel. And you think about the standard drugs of abuse. And then there are scripts that are out there, you know, things like anti anxiety, depression, anti depression, medication, everything, even for hypertension. The other thing that we screen for, and this is what you're always thinking about relative to young people on cruise ships, we do a BA, a blood alcohol level, level and ethanol level. And it's coming back negative. You know, one of our big concerns, and we've talked about this, you and I have talked about this specifically with trips like this. You think about, well, was her drink spike? Does she have a huge amount of alcohol in her system that would have at least knocked her down to a position where she was completely vulnerable? They're not seeing that here, Nancy. They're not seeing this at all. So that leads us down a different path. This is not like something that she was poisoned struck her throat, or she was inebriated struck her throat, anything like that. That's not the indication that we're getting. Greg Morris, if the reports are true, that the step brother has been charged and that is coming from his stepfather, what you've already told us about tampering with evidence, but why are you prone to believe it's not a murder or some sort of a homicide charge? Well, the reason why is nothing's come out that he's charged as an adult. I don't I don't think the federal government would charge a murder for a 16 year old as a and keep them in juvenile court. I've had these situations before. And generally, the person that stays in juvenile court is getting a non homicide charge. And because that person they want information to link to the people that committed the homicide. So that's the only reason why I say that. Okay, hold on. Hold on, Morris. I got a question for you. Based on something you just said, if in fact, this is true. And the reason we're questioning it right now is because it's been kept under wraps. The reason I believe it's been kept under wraps is because he is juvenile. And those records are kept secret. It's really hard, even with a subpoena for even a prosecutor to get juvenile records. I recall Greg Morris, I don't know if this has ever happened to you. I was trying an adult for homicide. I found out through word of mouth, you know, a witness, one of my witnesses told me, Oh, yeah, he's had a shooting before a couple of years ago, and he was still juvenile. I'm like, What similar transaction? I want that. I tried and tried and tried to get it throughout the trial. When the case went to the jury, in other words, I had rested my case, the defense had rested its case, the jury instructions have been given, the jury was deliberating. Guess what? Into court comes a re from juvenile court. And he had three prior shooting incidents, which I could have used a trial if I had them. But I tried. I fought tooth and nail. I went through hell and high water to get those juvenile records with a subpoena. And I got him a day late and a dollar short. The jury never knew that he had a history of shooting people and shooting at people. They convicted him anyway. But that said, that's how hard it is to get a juvenile record. Now, here's my question. You're saying you don't think it is a homicide charge. I'm not saying murder. Homicide could be murder. It could be voluntary manslaughter. It could be involuntary manslaughter be any of those choices. You're saying you don't think that it's one of those because if it were, he would have been bound over to adult court. And that hasn't happened. So therefore you're thinking it's not a homicide. I'm just trying to understand your thinking. Yeah, I don't think so. At this stage that it is a homicide charge. Because again, he's still in juvenile court. It appears or a juvenile designation in federal court. So right away when someone's charges as an adult, it becomes public. And also, they could be working up to go to a grand jury, the grand jury they don't go to every day, they can convene them on an emergency basis. They do go regularly to grand juries. And you have to get a grand jury has to issue charges. So they could just have issued a criminal complaint alerted this is what's going to happen. And then they'll go to a grand jury later, although that that is a little unusual with the relief. That is a little unusual with a juvenile if they're not being charged with a homicide based offense. But again, this is still confidential. Nothing's in the system public. I checked right before I came on your show today to see if there was anything in the federal system. And there still is not access by, you know, open to the public. Anna Kettner's body was found and it was dead stuffed under a bump under one of the beds in the room. Do we have proof that her stepbrother did this to this day? We don't have any answers at this point. A lot has been made of the fact that the stepbrothers family seems more intent upon optics about what gets out to the media. Is it a surprise that they want to keep alleged charges on the down low? Straight out to Sydney Sumner joining us crime stories investigative reporter, Sydney, isn't it true that the stepbrother was viewed going to federal court? And this video here is from Fox 35 Orlando. Yes, we watched him walk into court. He was slain by a public defender and his father, Thomas Hudson. He's wearing that camouflage jacket and even a hat underneath that. So all media photos blur his face. They did not want anyone seeing his face as he walked into this courtroom. So the teen stepbrother of Anna Kettner was seen leaving juvenile court entering federal adult court in Miami just a few days ago. And this is a minute investigation into Anna's death on the Carnival cruise ship. Now the documents are sealed. Official charges not released as of right now. Dr. Jerellyn Utter is joining us. She is a clinical psychologist specializing in psychological evaluations and risk assessments for individuals author of mainlining Philly survival hope resisting drug addiction. She's the author of aftershock how past events shake up your life today. Producer of utter nonsense. Thank you for being with us. Dr. Sheldon other question to you. Regarding claims that the family is more intent on protecting the reputation of the stepbrother. I find that loyalty highly displaced. I don't necessarily find it highly displaced at all Nancy because you know to Greg Morse's point you know we don't actually know what happened in that room and this sounds like a pretty you know from the outside and from what we know this was a blended family. The stepbrother and step you know sister that that for all intent purposes as far as we can see got along with each other. So because we don't know what happened you know the family is trying to protect the child that they have left there. They can't you know I couldn't imagine the grief that they're going through having lost the daughter and essentially what's happening now is they're they're in the process of losing a son. So as far as optics go I think they're just trying to protect their family and because we don't know what happened I think it makes sense. Another thing is you know he was reported you know behavioral observations. He was reported as being you know an emotional mess extremely traumatized. He was hospitalized psychiatric after leaving. Now that doesn't that's not an implication of guilt of any sort that we see when it's very traumatic event. Somebody was exposed to a very traumatic event. Him being hospitalized just indicative of how much that impacted him. So you know I kind of I get where the family's coming from and I empathize with them. They've lost the daughter and now they're they're in the process potentially of losing a son. If he doesn't get in trouble or convicted legally you know this has been another trauma on the family and it's it's heartbreaking. Why do you keep saying we don't know what happened in that room. I'm curious. Because we we don't know. I mean we we know that something happened but we really don't factually know what happened in that room. He looks like you know somebody that was involved in something but we don't know exactly what it was. So you know to the family's point they probably know more than anyone does at this point because that's their son and trying to protect him is is an obvious knee jerk reaction to somebody who loves him especially his parents. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Josie Scott Morgan could you please refresh Dr. Utter's recollection of the facts about what we do know who went into the room. The little brother the little one comes from the little brother. Leaving behind Anna Kepner alone with the stepbrother who had physically jumped on her before climbed on top of her and she fought him off. The little brother leaves. Here's fighting and throwing furniture in the room. The little brother is in the room. The little brother is in the room. Here's fighting and throwing furniture in the room. He hears the stepbrother screaming at Anna. He goes wandering around all on his own. He's a little boy on a cruise ship to late at night. I don't know what the parents were thinking. There's video of Anna going into the cabin and never coming out. The stepbrother was in the cabin with her. And now she's dead not by suicide. Just give me your factual analysis of what we know as Dr. Jeroen Utter says we don't know what happened in that room. You know what I don't need to count on my fingers to figure out two plus two is one two three four. I can figure that out. Help me out Josie Scott. Yeah one plus one still equals two. And so yeah we were not a fly on the wall inside of the room. But from an investigative's perspective Nancy I have to deduce that I have one suspect that I'm looking at at this point in time. Particularly if we've got secondary witnesses here that are reporting that they're hearing fighting. As a matter of fact you've got an eyewitness that sees things occurring makes them so uncomfortable that they exit from this room. Now I guess that people say this is your own kid. But still he's got fear kicking in. He doesn't want to be around this environment at this point in time. You've already got a witnessed attack that has taken place. And then you hear the screaming the throwing the furniture and these sorts of things. When her body is found when her body is found. I think the big question would be does a level of violence and there is violence here that is displayed on her mortal remains Nancy. Does it marry up with what we're hearing from inside of the room. I think that at the end of the day the science is going to tell the tale here relative to what happened to her. We still don't know all of the details relative to her trauma. But it is going to be extensive. The sounds I got to tell you Nancy it sounds very savage to me. When you're talking about a combination of not just asphyxiation but also as I'd mentioned previously I think that these blunt force injuries that she is sustaining are an attempt to subdue her. And one more little factoid here in order to facilitate an arm bar like this. You could do it from the rear where you have an individual that is behind the subject and you're pressing against the neck around their neck. OK where you're you're actually pressing in toward them. However, in my opinion I think that this is where she is face up on the floor. The assailant would be on top of her and literally pressing his forearm down onto her neck after having subdued her with punches perhaps. Maybe kicks. She may have been stomp. I don't know. We'll find out more though. He was the only one seen coming and going. So I can't I can't accuse him because I don't know what happened in that room. But the summation would be that that he did something. Anna excuses herself from dinner early not feeling well. Surveillance footage shows Anna walking back to and entering the room she shares with her brothers after eating the teen boys come back to the room before the youngest sibling ventures out again to explore leaving Anna and their stepbrother alone. So to Dr. Geraldine Utter you continue to state we don't know what happened in that room. Video and witnesses show Anna Kepner and the stepbrother entering the room. They're in there alone. The stepbrother comes out and she is found stuffed under a bed wrapped in a sheet strangled asphyxiated by a bar hold. So explain to me how you think they're the only two people in the room. How do you think she ended up under the bed stuffed under the bed wrapped in a sheet? Dead. I mean I don't I don't want to kind of go back and forth on on all of the intricacies and you know you know it did he do it did he not do it. I mean I think from a psychological standpoint to your earlier point this family is in survival mode and they're trying to protect the child that they have left and they're just you know in a grieving process they're trying to kind of process all this figure out what's going on. Another thing is you know from from an evaluative perspective if the court hasn't done this already I would hope that they would order a full psychological evaluation whether it's done on the juvenile side or the adult side for the stepbrother because we want to learn more about you know his current mental capacity his his you know competency where he's at if he's even appropriate to participate in court proceeding and I think all of that data you know will reveal things when we do evaluation we reveal things about somebody's mental stability and their overall mental health not to be confused and I'm not trying to say hey because you know he may or may not have a severe mental illness or psychiatric issue that that you know kind of is an excuse for him to do what he's done but I think you know really taking a look at him and evaluating him psychologically is really going to also help put the pieces of this case together. Anna Kepner's death on board a carnival cruise ship now ruled a homicide her autopsy stating she was mechanically asphyxiated by another person or persons. The medical examiner finds two bruises on the side of Anna's neck she may have been held in a bar hold meaning her attacker held an arm across her neck. Still no arrest now over 75 days later nothing. The problem is you don't know who the people are that you're cruising with so you could be cruising with murderers child predators and all sorts of criminals. When I say murder I mean murder because there is no way she killed herself or had an accident and ended up stuffed under a bug. I got some news today on my daughter's case they are going to charge her 16 year old stepbrother for first degree murder and there's going to be some other charges brought but I'm not sure what they are yet until they tell me I don't know so that is one of the charges and as soon as I know more I will let you guys know. Thanks for your support. That is Anna Kettner's biological mother Heather Wright but then she posts this. So I guess I was wrong with my update the other day. Apparently they didn't charge with anything when he went to the federal board and so I'm not sure what that's all about. I also heard that he'd be driving June I don't know if it's an old man just f***ing up. You got that point when you were doing it when he did. No it's Anna but it's not. So everybody is fighting me fighting my daughter. Thank y'all for all the support. Bye y'all. Okay that is Anna's bio mom again and I just want to hear exactly what she says one more time let's listen carefully. So I guess I was wrong with my update the other day. Apparently they didn't charge with anything when he went to the federal board and so I'm not sure what that's all about. I also heard that he'd be driving June I don't know if it's an old man just f***ing up. You got that point when you were doing it when he did. No it's Anna but it's not. So everybody is fighting me fighting my daughter. Thank y'all for all the support. Bye y'all. That again was Anna Kepner's mother Heather Wright posting very very upset. She can't quite seem to get to the bottom of what the charges are. Straight out to Sydney Sumner joining us crime stories investigative reporter. Sydney I think the confusion stems from the fact that it's all under wraps it's sealed because it's juvenile records but according to the stepfather which is Anna's Anna Kepner's bio dad and according to ABC and other outlets charges have been filed against the stepbrother. What do we know? What do we really know other than we saw him going from juvenile court let's see the video from juvenile court to federal court where he would be charged if he's being charged as a as a fed. This is where our friends at Fox 35 Orlando by the way that appears to be his public defender with him so he's got his lawyer with him and he's going to federal court where the whole thing started this could be a matter of it's being handed over to state authorities to lodge charges but what do we actually know Sydney Sumner? Well right like you said we know that Chris Kepner has commented that this teens stepbrother has been charged we do not know what with Kepner did not go that far he mentioned charges but did not get into the specifics of what those charges are and we know that his relationship with Heather Wright Anna's mom is fraught with tension they aren't on good terms so the information that she's getting is not only second hand but also coming from the father so whatever Chris Kepner is deciding to tell Heather Wright is what she's going off of so yes keeping all of these records under seal is leaving a lot to question right now. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. He heard him yelling at her like in a harmful way of like shut the hell up and stuff like that like something was like banging around and stuff and like the chairs were getting thrown around in the room. Anna's brother heard a heated argument between them in their cabin the night before Anna was found dead he heard the stepbrother yelling at Anna the sounds of furniture overturning and screams from inside their room. That was from our friends at Inside Edition Greg Morse joining me veteran trial lawyers a criminal defense attorney founded Morse legal I'm concerned I'll tell you what I'm concerned about right now is tampering with witnesses no one's been charged with it but the little brother the juvenile hey how old was the little brother Sidney like 12 or 13 years old 13 13 the little brother and he looks younger than that is seen on video I mean you might as well be in a casino in Vegas because every square inch of this cruise ship is covered with video he's just wandering around the cruise ship all night by himself into the late hours that I think that's him the little one that said just wandering around now his testimony Greg is that he heard the stepbrother the 16 year old stepbrother yelling at Anna in a quote harmful way yelling things like shut the hell up something was banging around instead of like chairs getting thrown around the room then Anna ends up stuffed under the bed wrapped in a sheet and covered in life vests a very infantile way that's just got Morgan's term of covering up her body and I agree with him this is my fear the family is so concerned about protecting the teen stepbrother could they coerce the little boy or encourage him to change his testimony is that possible well that's always possible with any witness right people can be pressured all the time you know his testimony is your typical circumstantial evidence that's a very important to an investigation because people weren't in the room and witnessed the crime if that's where it happened but when statements change later on you know as lawyers you go and you hold credibility in the closest in time to the event because our memories are better closer in time to the event so it would just create an inconsistent statement now if they tried to pressure the younger child to change his testimony or say he was thinking of a different room so that would lose credibility on some level because of the original statement and Nancy I want to point something out that the stepbrother could have been in court for another reason the federal government oddly enough is very good at telling you you're the target of an investigation they normally do that in my white collar cases well before a charge well before anything and what they tell you is you're now a target of an investigation you may want to see counsel when Sydney indicated he walked in with the public defender he may have simply been in court because the federal government identified him as a target and the court now has to appoint counsel for him because he can't afford one they can do that hearing and do that before charges are ever filed and charges may never be filed but that could also be a reason why he was in court and left and we don't see anything in the system outside of the juvenile side but there's always back to your original question there's always you know witness tampering people talking to witnesses did you um um you know change your testimony later on but that would that would severely undercut the later change testimony because of the original statement the child is dead Anna Kettner is dead either clothed or partially clothed stuffed under a bed the teen stepbrother is the main suspect we do not know what condition her body was found if she was wearing clothes or not she just didn't feel safe around him she's scared to tell anybody because she was scared that he would do something to her joshua too says Anna's close relationship with her stepbrother was one-sided the 16 year old is obsessed with Anna and made her uncomfortable with romantic advances he once even caught him trying to climb into Anna's bed while the two were on FaceTime Anna already asleep he says that i tried to tell the parents that this was happening and they didn't want to believe me he's like infatuated attracted her like crazy he's always wanted to date her chris doesn't realize it's his fault this whole thing is his fault if he would have taken the warnings that Anna's ex-boyfriend gave him then she would still be here so keep that in mind Christopher i blame you from our friends at inside edition and just mom 1984 on tiktok it's often said when you don't know a horse look at his track record sydney summoner crime stories what is being said what are we hearing well we we know very little about this teen stepbrother family members say he and Anna were best friends we do know they mentioned some kind of demons in this child's past not sure what those are what that could mean sydney summoner did you not just hear what Anna Kettmer's little boyfriend said that he was on a FaceTime with her and saw the teen stepbrother climb on top of her with sexual intent that she said she was afraid of the stepbrother because of unwanted sex advances and that he the boyfriend tried to warn the family this was happening but nobody wanted to hear it we just heard that and now the stepbrother is put alone in a cabin he's in the cabin alone the little brother leaves and she's dead well right so obviously there's this big disparity between what the family thought these siblings relationship was like and what her friends knew about what was going on you're right that teenage ex-boyfriend tried to warn Anna's parents that something was amiss in this relationship and that the stepbrother was dangerous to Anna but apparently no one listened you know just got morgan when you put all of the evidence together it's very very disheartening i imagine especially for you as a death investigator in reading that autopsy report this girl was killed she did not die accidentally she did not die of natural causes she did not die of suicide this is homicide very clear nobody's in jail the 16 year old stepbrother now almost 17 has walked free he has been released after that federal court appearance why hard to know i can tell you this the pure definition of homicide as we stated you know here like when i teach my students at jack state is and it's not judgmental okay you're merely saying death at the hand of another and in this particular case this is not something where she slipped and fell on the end of the bed or on a coffee table or something like this is there a possibility that could have happened i guess so in some other universe perhaps it's good what what so wait are you saying there is a it's possible it's possible not even probable but possible she slipped and died of asphyxiation in a bar hold what no what i'm saying is that in some other universe that that could be potential i've never seen a case like this where you have direct pressure applied to the neck and it has to be applied for a long period of time in order to impact the airflow nancy this is something that would have would have required constant pressure across her neck for a protracted period of time until every ounce of life was out of her body i think one of the big question is one of the big questions is is that whoever perpetrated this i would really like to know what was going on with them inside of their head relative to commit such an animalistic act on this young girl nancy you want to know what's in whose head whoever pulled this off because there is a perpetrator this is not an accidental okay uh jose scott you are a premier death investigator but let me remind you jose scott that the state never has to prove motive it is not the state's duty to crawl into the head of a killer and think wow wonder what happened wonder what he was thinking don't care what he was thinking okay let me hang on now hang on one second now let me tell you something here my concern in addition to this is there somebody out there roaming free at this moment in time that has the capability to commit this kind of savage act on other people and i think that that is a genuine concern here from an investigative standpoint i don't want them on the street whoever in the hell did this i don't want them around other teenagers i don't want them around well you're preaching to the choir joe scott you're preaching to the choir and i don't have to know what was crawling around in his head at the time he allegedly murdered anna keppner to know i don't want him out around other innocent victims if you know or think you know anything about this case please dial 754-703-2000 754-703-2000 nancy gray signing off goodbye friend