From Anti-Aging to Longevity Thinking with Amitay and Anastasia of Young Goose Skincare

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I am very, very excited about this episode. We are going to be interviewing a brand today that I hold in very high regards. I absolutely love what they're doing in the longevity space in all ways. And so without further ado, I want to introduce you guys because this is a really new category for, I think, obviously skin health, but overall, you know, and I think it's really important to shine a light on brands that are doing it in a very ethical way, in a way that really makes sense biologically. It makes sense from the scientific standpoint, and I'm a huge believer in their entire ethos. So without further ado, please welcome Amitay Eshel and Anastasia Kodzeva. They are the co-founders of Young Goose. Welcome. We're so happy to be here. Thank you so much for having us. We're so excited. I'm so excited to have you guys. I mean, I've been a huge fan, you know, long before we connected about you coming on the show. I've been following Young Goose very closely, and so very, very honored to host you both. Same, same. I listen to you in the car when I'm driving. I love the variety of guests you have. So it's a big honor to be here. Thank you. Yeah, sometimes it's funny when there is a podcast you listen to, and then you're on the podcast, you're used to hearing the voice talking. Yeah. And you're like, oh my God, she's talking to me. I need to respond. It's not a different guest. I'm not just listening this time. I'm actually going to be talking to you. Yeah. So I'm so excited. That's very kind of you. I want to dive in, you know, and I really want to start with the idea of like skin as a performance organ. That's not really how most people think about their face, you know? They don't really think about skin in that context. And I would love if you guys could start us off there. Amitay, if you can kind of, you know, get us started. Yeah. So I think most people nowadays think of their skin as like a canvas. And I think, I think skincare companies including us have a lot to do with it, have a lot of basically have kind of indoctrinated users to think about their skin. As a canvas that you need to paint, to paint over or fix, we know we see it as an output system. It affects everything happening inside you basically, as far as like what Yungus is looking at, anything from your stress load to your sleep quality, how well your mitochondria are functioning, your inflammatory baseline, all of those are significantly more detrimental to how your skin looks in the end than something that you will be putting on your skin in order to kind of maybe hide what's going on inside, if you would. Yeah. When you think about it, and you, let's say you had a bad sleep, two nights of bad sleep, you don't really need a blood test to tell you that your skin will show it to you. And if you're overworked, if your gut is off, like, actually the skin will tell you everything you need to know about your overall health. So the skin is really the window to your overall health is the output of the repair capacity as you know, we like to say, and you just got to listen to it. Yeah. So for if your gut is inflamed, your skin will show it. If your court is always high, you know your skin knows. Yeah. And it's really not vanity to pay attention to that it's information. Yeah, that's a really good point. I think that people don't realize like when your skin is looking tired or dull or just even inflamed, it's not just random. There's something really, it's a story being told by your body, it's biology. And so, you know, I really like that narrative. And I think that's something that we don't really often hear about, you know, in the skincare space, because it is so much about quick fixes, you know, like what can I do very quickly to whatever. But I think it's a really nice way to think about it, you know, as this holistic idea. So I want to actually dive into this reduced recovery capacity component, because that's really important for I think listeners to understand if you guys could kind of shed some light on that. Yeah. So if we're going to be talking about like what is really stimulus and what is recovery, when as far as your skin is concerned, stimulus is anything that your skin has to respond to. And that is happening everywhere all the time. So if you got a sun exposure, that's a stimulus. If you applied retinol, that's a stimulus. If you applied chemical pill, that's a stimulus, the flight you took, it's a stimulus, the stressful Monday, it's a stimulus. So even hard work out at the gym can be a stimulus for your skin that it has to process. So on its own, none of it is bad, because that's how your skin really adapts and strengthens. The problem is when the stimulus outpaces recovery. And it's kind of, I think, easy to understand with the gym analysis, like if analogy, if you weren't going hard at the gym for seven days and you didn't take rest, that's too much. And you're not going to get stronger, you're actually going to eventually break down. I think the skin care industry has been lured into basically interacting with something very fundamental in us human beings, which is we're trying to fix things by adding more. And skin care for a very long time, the skin care industry, because the idea at the end of the day is to sell more products, is to be more profitable, kind of played hand in hand in this. So it had a hand in training people to keep adding, whether it's more active, whether it's more obviously like professional treatments, more steps in the routine, the entire rise of K-beauty, which we learn from, everybody's learning from it. It's very impressive, inspiring, and great. The rise of it was really by introducing these hybrid products that people added to the routine. And suddenly, they had this 10, 12 step routine. Yeah, so no one's talking about the recovery side, the response by the skin side of the equation, because you can't just keep depositing stress, depositing instructions into depositing basically stress into an account without making the withdrawals of repair. The way we've built the Angus, as far as the credo, product, etc., it's designed around balance. It's designed maybe first to support the skin's own ability to recover and, you know, not just piling more stimulus and stimulus, but as a company, we're not anti-active. I think there are, unfortunately, we see, for example, the hardships that our friends that have clean beauty brands that are going through right now in the implosion of that industry, because it became like an anti-active almost industry. So we're not anti-actives. We're pro-recovery, if you would. Even the actives are the there is a recovery. Supporting recovery is there. There is a thought there is to how the two have to be in balance, if you will. Yes. No, that's actually an incredible insight there, because you're very, very correct in that. I've struggled myself as a consumer for a long time in understanding when to use actives, what actives to use, how they really play into this full idea of true regeneration of the skin, renewal of the skin. I think there are so many multiple scientific disciplines that come into the picture here. I think for a long time, you guys brought up such an important point here, is that k-beauty has taught us a lot, I think. You're right, in the sense of you can combine a lot of different ingredients to get a very wonderful effect. But at the same time, it's also brought up, I think, a few different questions in the sense of, well, what is dosing? And how does that work? And what is synergy of molecules? What is the synergy of biology and physiology? And how does that really play a part? And I think that's when things really come into full lens. And the idea of, well, what is skin recovery at the end of the day? What does that mean? And as an organ? Anastasia came to me the other day with an interesting realization about, because we had someone come to us, like a famous person come to us with a 12-step routine. They're assisted, actually, kind of with the 12-step routine. So it's like, oh, yeah, we see that a lot, right? You said something, right? Yeah, I mean, we see that constantly. People come to us, like I said, with, used to be nine-step routine, now it's 12-step routine. I'm sure some people have 20-step routine. And they get treatments also very often, sometimes monthly treatments, professional treatments. But the reason they resort to us sometimes is like the last step is their skin actually looks irritated. It looks inflamed. It looks tired. So they have the opposite effect of what they're chasing. And until they've got to talk to us, their thinking was that they need more. And oftentimes, it's usually the opposite. You need less. You need to protect your recovery. And the people who genuinely get somewhere and get better results is the ones who, like, figure that part out. How can you let your skin get into the recovery mode? How can you support it? And it's not doing less. It's not necessarily being uneducated or being lazy. It's actually strategic. Yeah, exactly. I couldn't agree more. And I think this is a really, really important referencing that we've done here in terms of now we're asking, we're not asking, how do I fix this wrinkle? We're more so asking, why isn't my skin recovering properly anymore? And that's a huge thing. I think that's a whole different conversation to be had. And I'd love to talk more about this idea of the stimulus versus recovery. Can you break that down for us? What does that really mean? I think we're living under a different... Let me start by the fact that we live in a new time in the world. And the conditions that our skin experiences right now are not the conditions that our skin was designed for or gone through evolution. For better and for worse, some examples are, for example, when we started talking about blue light exposure in 2020, people thought we are out of our mind as far as how it affects the skin. Obviously chronic sleep disruption is another big talking point processed food, daily psychological stress that I think is not talked enough within the confines of skin health pollution, obviously. So free radicals that are not native to what our normal environment would consist of travel across time zone, travel itself and the time zone aspect of it. Our answers, Cessars, again, the evolution process we went through didn't necessarily need longevity skincare because their recovery load was manageable. The input was native. Ours, the one that we go through as human beings, is not native, is not manageable. So people are aging faster than they would have been on a cellular level, on the level of the DNA. I can't stand the word, by the way, on the cellular level already. We say it all, but I'm looking if anyone wants to give me an alternative, I'll take it. But people are on the most fundamental level, on the level of our epigenetics, people are aging faster, our people are getting more and more disruption. And we're starting to not only see, we're starting to feel it. And we're starting to feel it earlier as human beings, skin or not. So the correction model that we've been in for the last 30 years, this paradigm doesn't apply anymore, because you cannot correct or you can't correct fast enough to even keep up with the damage. Correction, the way that we see it. And again, we've been in the industry for a long time, consulted many brands before we started the Angus, the medical great skincare model of the last 30 years of adding more and more stimulus is a reactive model. Yeah, longevity is proactive. The family stories that I tried to trademark prejuvenation and failed, but it's proactive, right? It's prejuvenating. In my opinion, the smartest consumers are the ones that are listening to this, that are making the shift right now. But in a very short amount of time, the word longevity, it's going to stand in place of the word anti-aging. It's going to insinuate whatever anti-aging is saying right now, right? Yeah, and I think also people are just waking up to the math. Like, if you spend $500 on a treatment every three months, and then the results reset, and you have to do it again over and over, then where are you really gonna get with it? And the opposite, like if you support your recovery and you support your skin health in a way that something actually starts building over the years, you have compounding effect, that math kind of works out better. People don't want quick fixes anymore. The quick fixes, they don't compound, they reset to zero, and the longevity is about building something that gets better over time. Yeah, I love that, Anastasia, because I think that is really the heart of longevity. And I have seen a lot of critique about longevity across categories, not just skincare, across the board. And it really baffles me, because especially in skincare, we're sitting in a category where for so long, we were promoting the use of 20% AHAs on young skin in your 20s. But now all of a sudden, we have a problem with barrier repair. We have a problem with truly taking your time, letting your organ heal itself over time. It doesn't make any intuitive sense, and it's almost like the pushback feels a little misplaced to me when I see that. Actually, it seems to you misplaced because your vantage point, in my opinion, is a very rare vantage point. And I'll explain what I mean. To a nutritionist, McDonald's does not make sense. It doesn't. If the world was built according to the logic of a nutritionist, fast food chains will go bankrupt. But the fact of the matter is that they are not. And the reason is, is because, again, we're talking, that's the point that we made before. And it's a point Anastasia has been talking about for, I don't know, a decade and she made me see the light, is that we are, as human beings, were very bad at looking at, that's kind of what she alluded to, very bad at looking at micro-compoundable effects. So one burger is not going to harm you for that matter, but, you know, a thousand would like, or a daily burger is going to harm you, you know. Morgan Spurlock, of course, in his famous movie about McDonald's, will show that the eight of them read it for any days. Anyway, so. They started losing, it probably surprised who didn't, don't know what they're talking about. Started losing hair, teeth. Yeah. Was pretty bad. Yeah. So going back to longevity, longevity, all longevity is saying is that at its fund, at its fundamental level, it is the balance between three things that might skew each other, which is how do we optimize how your skin looks now? This is the silo where, you know, results oriented skin care is living in, right? Right. Resilience and how well your skin is going to look in 10 years if nothing were to challenge it on a fundamental basis. Resilience is how prepared are you for like an extreme event? It could be extreme UV event. It could be that you are you sunbathe in a ruby for a month, right? But it could also be like extreme stress, whatever that may be. That is what resilience looks like. We can measure it in your skin. And then the end point is how are you treating your skin to kind of preserve reservoirs, if you would, preserve the integrity of the function for years to come? So these things could rob each other. They could live in a silo if you talked about skin barrier, if we exfoliate it every day forever or even for a short amount of time because we need to look good for this interview. We're going to pay for this later on because we've damaged or we've introduced too much stimulation, which we've talked about. Same with resilience. The examples, I think, speak for themselves, right? If I introduce something that challenges my skin and I build resilience, I'm not going to look great. You know, people who are the leaders in like cold ice plunging, right? They don't look good. They don't look young. Okay. The reason is they've built resilience, but they didn't, you know, there was no balance there. And longevity, if you only cared about longevity, that's kind of a little bit the implosion of clean skincare. You only care about not disrupting anything. You're not introducing any stimulation. You're not introducing much resilience. You're just going to making sure you're not harming your skin. That's why the, you know, the clean beauty industry is not doing so hot right now. So really, the combination of the three, finding a middle ground between the three, that's what longevity means. Yeah. It's beautifully articulated there. I completely 100% agree with you. And I also think that this is an incredible shift that we're going through because it is a lot to wrap your head around, you know, for the average consumer. I think that's also why we see so much pushback because consumers for so long, we've been fed the marketing, you know, for decades, we've been fed that. I mean, think back, you know, I love to like kind of go back to our grandmothers and to go back to that era where there was just like Ponds Cold Cream or, you know, there was just one product, you know, and I think and I'm like, they had the idea right. They were using one thing and they were doing it every night over and over again. And then they would say 20 years later, this is why my skin looks good because I start to one thing. And I, you know, I miss that. I miss people taking pride in that. You know what I mean? Like in that way of saying, I have a routine that I believe in and I stick to it and my skin loves that. And there's no, it's almost like we've shamed that over the years, right? Of this in this mass consumerism. But I think, yeah, I think also speaking of our grandmothers, they have had less shiny objects in front of them. And a lot of the time there was also like, like a resources depending where the grandmother used to live, you know. Yeah. But I think there was also less pressure. There was less pressure on them to look good at 50. Yeah. That's true. That's true. No, it's really interesting. I mean, I think that, but here's the thing though, I think when I look at the products now that are coming up, I mean, your line, I think it's beautiful because you guys don't have any redundancies in your products. Everything is meant to serve a purpose. Everything has a role. You are serving a role. And I think that to me is the most fundamental structuring or restructuring of the, of a brand or of skincare that we need to really focus on. You know, you see what I'm going like, I, and I feel like brands can learn from that because for so long, I mean, how many times have you guys walked into a drugstore, right? And you see the same product from the same brand. And it's like just different percentages. I don't need that. I don't need that much option, you know, just give me one and tell me why it works. Does it work? Give me the efficacy and then I'm done. That's it. So, you know, and, and that's kind of what kind of what I was kind of alluding to also was that there was a simplification there before. And I see with longevity, we're bringing it back in a lot of ways, you know, but I would love to, you know, kind of talk about why this shift is really happening and talk about more on that compounding effect. I mean, that you were talking about previously, you know, like, can we kind of elaborate on that in terms of like what that means and like, what should consumers really understand about this? I think for consumers, it makes sense because you're doing less, but you're getting more results. And at YanQus, you know, we really look at what skin aging really is on the cellular level, the expression of the diet. Everything. The pathways and the molecules and, and, you know, if the skin functions as a younger skin, it needs to have certain things in place. And we, we could, you know, dive into it deeper. But for us, the fundamentals would be NAD+, so we, we, that's your, really your cellular energy. And if you're, as you grow older, you actually have less and less of it. So if you think about it, about it, like in terms of your bank account, actually, you have less and less money in a bank account as you grow older, but the expenses that actually the same or even higher, they manage your expenses better and have some savings. And there are, another thing that is important when you think about compounding effects and how it affects the skin would be, for example, spermidin, another molecule that naturally every skin, every cell has it. And as we grow older, we have less and less. So again, we can think about it in terms of like less money in the bank. But in this case, it's, it's not the currency, it's not what you pay for repair with, it's actually, it turns on a topology, your cellular cleanup. And then what you can also think about is like, for your house, you need the plumbing and you need the electricity, you know, for a good house. So those two are kind of essentials and we are really You can see Anastasia, by the way, is in repair mode right now in the house. Yes, we are renovating. I want to give the opposite example because I think, you know, these are the examples that we live in. That's the world that we live in. We see, obviously, we are very glad that there's a lot of discussion around mitochondria right now. Obviously, we saw Lancome rolling out a mitophagy ingredient in every one of their, which is part of autophagy. It's a subcategory. So Anastasia mentioned spermidin because it covers more bases, but obviously there are other molecules that cover one of the bases, right? That still, I would consider it within longevity. But that is kind of good compounding. Obviously, a lot of people right now are talking about collagen banking. I would argue Elastin banking is where you should go. But yeah, better investment strategy. Let's talk about bad compounding. Again, we talked about like adding more ingredients, adding more treatments, and we can think of aging as the accumulation of unrepaired damage. Why is that? It's because every time we do not resolve an issue in the skin, it contributes to more stress across your skin. So every time there is damage that's not repaired well, every time there is a critical, again, like we can talk about UV exposure, we can talk about the sun because it's obviously something that we all share. But every time there is sun exposure and there DNA damage and stuff like that, those cells then, they don't repair as well. Other things, whether it's wrinkles, whether it's laxity, whether it's hyperpigmentation, whether it is irritation, whatever that may be, redness, rosacea, whatever that may be, are now more prominent. What do we want to do as human beings? We want to use another ingredient. We want to use another treatment. We want to go and do RF micro needling or a laser or whatever that is to go ahead and tackle that thing that bothers us. The problem is, is again, we're in a loop where we're compounding more simulation and more damage, which our skin, the reason our skin got to where it was is that it could not deal with the amount of stimulation and damage that it had before. And we're getting to, even if we've received some temporary effects, which granted, there might be, long term, we are creating a, where we're creating a situation where our skin is hyper aging in the background. So, your micro needling, like not micro needling, but like your radio frequency treatment might introduce some inflammation that would make you look better in the short term because your skin is now more taut because underneath it's inflamed. But if your skin is now going to create scar tissue underneath because, or your tissue is going to create scar tissue because it cannot deal with that stimulation. It cannot repair well. Well, guess what? Later on that tissue moves less well. It's going to create more wrinkles, more laxity. You're going to be harder to operate on if you're going to want to do surgery. But also for people that do want to, like, I mean, that was just leading up to get a plastic surgery or some of the treatments, experiments, any of those invasive procedures, as we said in the beginning of the podcast, is a stimulus, right? So, banking, like having savings account of their recovery molecules, molecules that can support recovery, stimulate recovery, is a smart way, like is a balance. Okay, if you want to try something invasive, make sure you have your recovery in place. You can recover from it. Yeah, I mean, I think this is an interesting topic because I've seen it approached in multiple ways. And I mean, my two cents, I just want to add also, what I've noticed is that we're not talking also about the idea that your body is in constant movement, right? So, cells are constantly working on regenerating things. They're constantly working on reducing and working with the molecules, right? To make sure they're optimized for use inside of the cell. Now, one of the biggest, I think, arguments, and I don't see a lot of NAD, you know, brands that are using NAD make this, is that it's not about just, like, as you brilliantly pointed out, it's not about just repleting, it's also about providing a feedback to your cells, because when they decline, physiologically, what that means is that they are losing the ability to keep up with damage, but that also means that their feedback loops are now slowed down. So, that feedback signaling is something that we need to understand. And we need to understand what is the balance between giving it the signal in the right amount so that it allows for the feedback loops to stay operational, but then also optimizes them to back to that state that we want them, right? Because that's what longevity is. You're kind of rewinding the clock to an optimized, functional state. And so, I think that's where it becomes very interesting to me when I look at it as a scientist, because I'm like, there's a lot of potential here when you start to understand physiological feedback loops, you know? And so, I think a lot of the times the marketing focuses on, yeah, we want to replete. You're right. We want to replete. But at the same time, we want to give your body what it normally has so that it can continue doing what it does beautifully by itself. You know? And so, I think that's where, I mean, I get very excited about longevity. I won't lie. I get very excited about the category, because I think it has immense potential, not only from like, obviously, the use of topical products and whatnot, but also from what it's feeding to research. I mean, as scientists, we're learning from this space, you know, constantly. Like, I know, I have many colleagues in the lab, in what lab? They have nothing to do with skin care. They have nothing to do with any of these categories. Longevity is kind of flourishing it. But what they do say is, I like what that, you know, what that brand did. I like what they're spotlighting. I'm going to go and look into that in my own research. Yeah. You know? It's a beautiful thing to watch. Yeah. And I think, you know, everything that you're saying is very, you know, is very, again, there is cross-pollination. I think most people don't know. So we're, as a brand, what we're targeting is something called the 12 hallmarks of aging, which are 12 categories on how you're basically the 12 categories, as far as like how our skin deteriorates, ages, et cetera, everything we talked about until now. And I mean, most people, even in the longevity field, don't know, is that they were developed out of the hallmarks of cancer. So I think, and obviously there are, you know, how many people that are applying like an NAD, spermidine, face serum, or exosorb serum, right? Whatever that may be, are thinking of the fact that it leaps in cancer research and definitions of how we, you know, categorize cancer expression is kind of the reason that we now have the longevity field and everything around that. I think, again, there is crazy cross-pollination there, even geriatrics, neuro, you know, neurodegeneration, whatever that is, all of those things are feeding back to this, this compendium of knowledge, which then a company like Young Goose could say, hey, you know, we see this incredible, you know, molecule for that matter. Mechanistically, it makes sense that it's going to do something in skin. Hey, let's take a look at it. And we're doing now a long project where there is a peptide that literally does not have yet a name, doesn't have a name yet with the FDA. So it's very difficult to communicate as far as, you know, regulation. But we're looking at it as something that maybe is going to come out to market in like five years, right? That's interesting. That's really interesting. And I want to take this time to kind of dive into one of your hero products, the Vampire Exosomes, very bold name. I want to learn more about why you named it the way you did. And let's dive in. So basically, it's the, you know, Vampire Facial or, you know, PRP Facials, I think changed the conversation around, around regenerative aesthetics. Basically, it showed consumers that platelet derived signaling has powerful repair instructions. Basically, it kind of set the stage for that. But I think the problem is, the first problem is accessibility. First of all, it's invasive, it's expensive, it requires a clinic. So there are gaps between the times that you're going to do that. And the results, because of because it's autologous, because it's your own stuff, they vary. You need to, the better you are, which you wouldn't have maybe chose the treatment if you didn't feel you need it, right? The better the results would be and vice versa. Okay. So it's the chicken and the egg there. So basically, we came to the R&D table, proverbial table and asked, you know, what if we could capture, we could encapsulate, we can capture that same regenerative signaling, the, you know, the exosomes that carry those distilled repair instructions, which is by the way, what they are doing also now with facial. So now the advancement in PRP facials is doing what we're doing as well, just in a clinic setting and deliver them topically, but consistently at home. That's what we're doing, right? That's what we're doing. So that's what, you know, vampire exosomes is. It's platelet derived, platelet derived, let's say regeneration without a needle. It's interesting because this, you know, the whole idea of regenerative signaling is very interesting to me. Let's dive into this in terms of, you know, the real nitty gritty, I mean, Deja, I would love for you to go through this, you know, in terms of, you've used three trillion PRP derived exosomes. Why does that matter? Why does that number matter and walk us through the details of the product? Nasti, I think you, I think she does it beautifully. So. Okay, let's see. Either one of us could do it, but as you know, in your audience, I think already also knows by now, but for new listeners that will say exosomes are tiny messengers, they're packets that, you know, carry the message and the cells use them to communicate when your body heals a wound. It uses exosomes to coordinate this process of healing and they carry signals that tell cells to produce collagen, reduce inflammation, renew tissue. So what we've done, why does this matter? So we took over three trillion lately derived exosomes into a single product and every batch is tested for dose. There is a verified dose. So when you apply your product, you're flooding your skin cells with the repair signals, selling your cells. Okay, it's time to rebuild. It's time to lower the inflammation. All of the signals we talked about that are crucial for repair processes. And the key here also is that the exosomes are not doers. They're their message. So it's your cells, your own cells that are doing the work. And that's why I think it's so powerful, you know, you work with your biology. It's not the exosomes that are doing it. They're allowing for the signaling to happen. I mean, that's, I think that really does get lost in translation. I've seen that repeatedly that people don't seem to grasp that component. And, you know, also more importantly, understanding cell signaling, I mean, I know you don't like cell biology, but really, we have to, we have to signal ourselves at the end of the day. I would love to talk more about, you know, in terms of like, when you guys, and I know you've spoken about this also, what was some of the things you had to do research on before you created the product? What were some of the due diligence that you did on your part to make sure you were delivering the best? I'll answer the question. I just want to give you props, you know, what you said right now before about basically like allowing the body to do its own function. It's so, it sounds to me, by the way, I love cell biology. I just don't like the word. I'm haunted by this word. I hear it 700 times a day. But anyway, I just want to give you an idea. That is why we started a podcast. Like we said, you know, so I have a podcast called Biohacking Beauty. We basically told ourselves, hey, who's going to listen to this podcast, you know, in the beginning, it's like, it's going to be our customers. They already bought the product. They're going to hear that we are going to understand we have a podcast. They're going to listen to it. We said, there isn't an ingredient that we can put in skincare that is going to correct poor sleep habits or poor habits in general, by the way, we need to, there is an invisible ingredient that's going to make our skincare work better. And that's how our, you know, patient compliance basically, so how our customers are going to behave. Let's build a communication platform to tell them how we would like them to behave. Hey, you are going to get a few multiples of better skin regeneration. If you're going to shut your eyes between 10 p.m. to midnight, that's your golden hour, 10 to two in the morning. In the morning, you do that, you get better skin. You don't eat simple sugar, you get better skin, right? So that's to your point. All we can do is two thirds, the other third, which I would argue is even more than a third, we need to find, we need people to do on their own. Unfortunately, fortunately, however you want to call that. Yeah. But also to get back to your question of like, with vampire eclosomes in particular, what I think what innovation we are bringing to the exosome space, it's also respecting that part of like, okay, exosomes are not doers, your cells are. So, okay, exosomes will tell your cells, okay, we need to get to work, we have repair to do. And looking at like, what's the best environment for cells to do that, to act on it, what do they need? So they need sedative fuel, they need NAD plus, in the case of vampire eclosomes, we also have a key ingredient there called rejuvenated. And that helps your skin cells to utilize their own NAD plus to fuel, you know, the work that cells need to do. And we talked, I think, a little bit about it on this podcast. And I'm sure you listeners know that NAD plus declines significantly with age. So pairing it with exosome signaling that really changes how the product works. And that's why I mean, we get since we watched the product last year, it's like outperform everything we've done. We love all of our products equally, they're all our babies, but this baby is just like top performer. It's reading the New York Times at the year and a half in bed. Yeah, speaking of more like house renovation analogies, like if your if your skin cells are a construction crew, then exosomes is the blueprint. The NAD plus is what helps them do the job. Is the coffee? Is the coffee? Is the coffee, yeah, I like that. The food is like, is that whoever's renovating? It's a tire crew, in case if you don't have any D plus, even though there is a blueprint, they're not going to do anything. And the opposite is true too, like NAD plus without exosomes, okay, it will give them energy to go about them, their functions. But if you have the best blueprint, you know, know exactly what to do, that's also going to be better. I hope that way. Yes, that was great. We did all works together. I want to make sure I cover a few things that came to mind just so I don't forget them. The first thing you asked like what kind of special consideration we had to address within this specific product. So first is testing. Unfortunately, first of all, we, you can't really own a patent within this field. What I'm going to say right now wasn't to make us the only company to fill in the blank, it was to introduce more integrity into this field, which is like a Swiss cheese as far as holes, okay. It's really insincere. So basically right now, there is no oneness, there's no there's no scrutiny that I need to go through after I make claims about my exosomes. So I can say my exosomes are are supercharged with what did we say before the podcast started with good thoughts and prayers. And I don't need to prove any of that, right. And obviously, people claim things about plant exosomes or different types of exosomes as far as you know, their capabilities, very little needs to needs to be proven. So the first thing about testing is we wanted to have, you know, we wanted to have a test that is batch-oriented, which means it correlates with the product that you or a consumer bought. And they can see that we validated the amount of exosomes, what's inside, etc. So exosomes are not all the same. Exosomes can be bad, by the way. We need to test and make sure what's inside of them. It's just the envelope. Yeah, it's a message. Exactly. Yeah, it can be a message of us all that for that matter. Yeah, right. So we have a test that shows, you know, per batch, what's inside the exosome and shows that it's at a very high standard, basically. That's number one, it holds us to a higher standard. And we hope other companies follow suit. That's what I kind of tried to eluto in the beginning. It wasn't to make us like a unique product. It was to hope that we would lead the industry towards that direction, because no other company does it currently. Right. And I don't think so. By the way, of course, I don't know all the companies on the globe, but from what I know, no other company publishes data about their exosomes. The second thing we needed to do before we chose platelet derived exosomes, we needed to understand what exosomes would be statistically the most potent. Yeah. Okay. So every exosome that's going to be harvested is going to be slightly different. But statistically, which ones are going to create the most amount of regeneration? So most times that you hear about exosomes, even what you said when you described the exosome, you mentioned many, many things that the exosomes have. But what we care about the most are something called micro RNAs, not RNA, not mRNA, micro RNAs. And the reason that we care about micro RNAs the most is that micro RNAs are like a very unique type of police, if you would, that makes your cells behave at an optimal fashion at the time of interaction, right? It's not forever, but at the time of interaction. In other words, you have micro RNAs within each exosomes that might say, hey, have really good antioxidant defense, hey, make really good collagen, hey, lower inflammation, hey, go after senescent zombie like bad old cells, right? And statistically, the best types of micro RNAs, the most amount of them, the best quality are in platelets. Why? It's because platelets, as Anastasia said, are those things that are first responders when we have a paper cut, when we have something that needs to be healed in the skin. So on average, they would have the most amounts of messages that relate to skin health and healing and performance and everything that's got to do with that. So the type we had to do, we had to do all the testing. And then exactly like Anastasia said, 99% of ingredients that someone's going to be trying to use with exosomes are actually going to harm the exosomes. So when they're going to live together in the bottle, they're going to damage the exosomes. Some things that people would know are like peptides, vitamin C, acids, like, really most of the actives that you could think of, even a lot of the NAD precursors that we use with other products cannot be combined with exosomes like NMN and R, whatever. So these are kind of the three pillars that we that we needed to figure out. And if exosomes work topically, they're going to dry out the skin, they're not going to dry out the skin, your skin is going to be drier part of their effect that turnover, etc. You're going to feel like your skin is drier. So we needed to go through all the ingredients that actually can be used or, you know, sift through ingredients and what can be used to find out how we can support skin barrier within that limited amount of ingredients that we can use. So supporting it with NAD, supporting skin barrier, so we don't dry the skin out and ramping up significantly the amount of exosomes that we have there. I love that you went through that. And I think it's interesting because you're pointing out, I mean, you've definitely, you've done your very best due diligence, but I also, you've pointed out a very important topic here every day. And I think that's the idea that there's a lot that needs to be understood, you know, about how to use exosomes and topicals. And I think that's what's differentiating right now. When I look at the space, I've interviewed a lot of brands that are utilizing exosomes. But one thing that I think is a huge differentiating factor is exactly what you said, which is there's a lot that you cannot combine in a formulation. There's a lot that needs to be understood about their bioactivity and what elicits the actual bioactivity and what hinders it. And I think a lot of times we fall into the trap of thinking, okay, you know, if we're claiming that they're there, then they're there. You know, people will talk about electron microscopy and they'll talk about, well, can you see them under microscopy and all that? But it's like, I beg to differ because I think seeing them is one thing, but then, you know, watching their activity is another thing. And so those kind of topics, it's just simply not being addressed right now on the manufacturing side, right? The labs that are creating them. And this is kind of a message, if anyone's listening on the lab side, right, like the academia side, I think it's worse creating these tests that are accessible to companies because it's not that companies don't want to do their due diligence. It's just that it's very expensive. If you go out there and you want to do your own ELISA, you want to do your own bioactivity testing on these products batch by batch, you want to make sure that every batch is the same, right? That kind of stuff. That's millions and millions. Yeah, we got quoted. We got quoted a million dollar retainer. Yeah, there you go. Like you said, I wish it was more accessible, but then I think, and I hope that brands will find a way to do it. But for we held off launching our product, you know, until we were able, we were in a position to do that because we wanted consumers to have as much visibility to what they're getting because it is on a price side. So it comes with extra certifications and receipts. No, it's absolutely. I agree. But I mean, I really applaud you guys for going that extra mile. I think that's wonderful. And I think it's really definitely setting a standard in the industry. And I love that you're doing that because anyone who wants to do exosomes, they're now going to think, you know, there's a brand out there that's they're going to challenge me on how much science and thought I've put into this, you know, and if I'm just selling a marketing claim, or if I'm actually able to speak on testing and all of those things. So that's, it's a wonderful thing. I want to move on. There's a beautiful product in your lineup, the Bluepeptide Spray. Let's dive into this. And what really was the driver behind you wanting to create a product like this? For sure. The Bluepeptide Spray, when we were thinking about this product, we really wanted to be part of everyone's day and life. And like with exosome product, it's a ritual, right? You have to wait, you have to really think about what can I mix it with? What can I layer? Like it's a ritual and it's something that is involved here when you apply it. With the Bluepeptide Spray, we wanted it to be like more like easier, right? And really what it is, it's a mitochondrial optimizer in the midst. So the hero ingredient is metaline bloom. It improves the mitochondrial efficiency, reduces oxidative stress. We combine it with the NAD support. So NAD plus complex that we have, you have, we mentioned copper peptides. So right there, by the way, yeah. Perfect. Yeah, by the way to us, put a lot of thought in there for the intro. Since bringing NAD plus precursors into skincare, we've changed it a lot. This more science comes to light and more molecules are accessible. Anyway, so you do have like in this midst, like everything that your mitochondria would thrive with and you could optimize its function, it's in the spray. So I stopped at the copper peptides. So we have copper peptides there for collagen signaling and superoxide dismutase known as SOD to neutralize free radicals. And it's such a fun product. As you mentioned, it's light, it's fast. You can put it over makeup. I envision people really taking it with them throughout the day as a boost. Because I think as I mentioned in the beginning, right, we, the conditions changed so much. He talked about travel, he talked about, you know, blue light exposure. There's so many, there's pollution, there is so much that's like constantly bombarding our skin. And you have this spray that you can just use every time your skin needs a little pick me up and it's a little boost. It's there for you. I think most, if you look at most hydration products, I think for first of all, we would love it if we were confident to introduce products that are used in ways that are not traditional. But 99.99% of the time, it's not a good idea. You don't want to introduce a product someone needs to use at 11.45. Just before noon, when the sun is at a certain angle and a full moon is out. Yeah. But the reason you don't want to do it is because you want to kind of attach what people are doing already. It's difficult to make yourself remove your makeup at night, let alone, you know, create a multi-layered routine. But sometimes there are opportunities like that. I think most hydration products are since they sit on the surface, since they work to kind of just prevent transseptitermal water loss to that matter, they are very, it's very rigid as far as how to use them, how you can use them over makeup. Can you not? This is a product that really works on the, we found another level, on the mitochondrial level. Okay. I like that. On the level of what creates energy in our skin. We mentioned NAD, that's a part of it. But you could really think of it as helping your skin cells make more energy so they can repair themselves. That's the point. And that is why intuitively, it's so easy to reach for it every time you know you're in subpar conditions. You're walking down the street, there's pollution, you are in an airplane, you are in front of your computer, and you have a lot of blue light. So all of those things, it's very easy to reach for it and just use it throughout the day. And we're very proud of this versatility and its ability to help. I love it. I have such a pet peeve against sprays. And I think I've said this before, but I mean, for anyone out there that loves sprays, my apologies, but I can't use them. Like those, the mists that everybody's coming out with, because, and I use them, I'm a grease ball at the end of the day. I look like I'm a disco ball. And so I've always loved products that don't add that extra heaviness. And so you have obviously, I mean, it's brilliant thinking on the side of the actual signaling and what my skin is getting, but also just the consistency of it, right? Like the feel that user experience. Well, I want to move on because you guys, you're doing something very unique. And this is something I have not been able to talk about in the podcast. And I really want to dive in is this idea of protocol thinking. When I was introduced to this, I think I made a post on LinkedIn a while ago about thinking in the sense of protocols rather than like individual products. And a lot of people gave me feedback when I was like, well, why aren't we talking about it? So I want to dive in the LADR, what is that? And then let's dive into what protocol thinking actually means in the context of skin health. Yeah. LADR, it's our light activated DNA repair serum. And the key ingredient there is actually DNA repair photosomes. So those are the enzymes that are literally activated by white, best by red light. And when light hits them, it triggers DNA repair at the cellular level. And that's DNA level. Yeah, it was some kind of quantrial energy. And, you know, we've, again, we've supported the job of DNA repair enzymes here, everything that the cells and those enzymes will need. So there you have the NID plus apex that we talked about here. So we're going to boost NID plus there. It stimulates collagen production, reduces inflammation. We've also included sperm that I mentioned earlier to activate autophagy. So your cells clean up process plus it's one of the products that has ergotinin. Now a line up so to protect your mitochondria from oxidative stress. And the protocol here is that, you know, for those so many, I'm sure of you listeners already have red light therapy. Yeah. And if you are not supporting the red light therapy alone, you can only get that far. And we can talk a lot about the fact that there is also like as part of red light therapy, there will be oxidative stress, which is kind of a huge stress. You need to like signal that repair. But, you know, there is certain certain kind of sealing on results you can get with the red light therapy alone. So if you support it, like with this product, with latter product, you get much faster results. You can do shorter red light exposure like 10 to 15 minutes instead of like doing it for 40 minutes. Yeah. And you don't have to do it every day. You can do it just three times a week. So I think a lot of people in longevity space and like self optimizing some people call it biohiking space. It's all about how can I do less? And that's also kind of what we're here for, doing less and getting more results. So if you already have red light therapy, you know, this product is best used with it. Because if you use it without light, you kind of leave half of the results on the table. But the good news that if you don't have red light therapy, you can also apply this product and expose to the natural light best by sunrise and sunset that has the red wavelengths. Yeah, that's a little bit about this product. And the results that people are seeing, they report to us that a lot of people introduce it obviously after they already had red light therapy. So they already saw what red light therapy can do along. And then when they saw that, wow, like since introduction, I can actually see results faster. That's very rewarding. Yeah. And I think, you know, this is something that I can't say, oh, this is where it got introduced that the idea of compounding or the idea of protocol thinking, was it, you know, looking at how drugs interact? You know, did pharma look at it first? Is it integrative practitioners, integrative medicine practitioners? I don't know, but, but, you know, protocol thinking can go way beyond skincare. You know, we did mention sleep, we did mention light, we've mentioned all of those things, but it could be also the supplements you're taking. It could be, you know, if your skincare doesn't work anymore, especially like peptide skincare or skincare that has a lot of, again, a lot of calls for repair, it's not that the actives are not there anymore. Sometimes they are in the case of, in some, some antioxidants, but for the most part, the actives are there, your skin is just like depleted. So you're, you know, it could be, it could be how you support your mitochondria, how you support energy, how you support, you know, your magnesium levels are extremely important for skincare to work, for example, or zinc, for example. We know, just as a side note, we know high levels of zinc are going to make your Botox last longer as an example, right? Like, there's many things that work in synergy and we can think of them as protocol thinking. Yeah. I mean, for us also, protocol thinking, like I mentioned is, given this information to our users and most of the time it's in the form of podcasts, because there we have long-term yeah, format. So we record like, okay, sleep optimization as a skincare tool. And then you'll have a protocol of like everything you can do to improve your sleep and the way it affects skin in particular, or we did one for barrier repairing, all the steps you can do, or, you know, when it comes to sun protection or mitigating pigmentation, there's like protocols, marks, like starting, you know, going diving deep about, I think we have patients and everything. Yeah. I think we have facial exercises to do in front of a red light panel, I think, even that. So there are many layers to that. Yeah. So that's also like the protocol thinking, it's not only in like the fact that, yes, if you look at the product, they're kind of a protocol and you can see how just the line is a protocol in itself, but it's beyond that. We, you know, we give you more tools beyond products. And yeah, we try to. It's the logic. It's the logic. You're building a logic out. And I think that's why I think that's what draws me to this, right? And I mean, when I first, I think you were right when you said, I think pharma came up with this, which it had to, because when you look at drugs, there's always a protocol. There's not a single, you know, doctor in the world that would say otherwise, because drugs, I mean, think about it, we look at everything with drugs, right? We look at what else are you taking? When are you taking it? In what dose? Do we micro dose? Do we, you know, everything is possible that can possibly be considered, we consider it. Lifestyle changes all of it. So this is a topic that I think, yeah, if there's anything we want to adopt from the drug development world, it should be protocol thinking, because that is mimicking the human body. And that's why I just, I mean, I love that you guys are doing that. And I love that you've incorporated that into your entire, the DNA of the brand, because this actually reframed skincare. It optimizes skincare. And I feel like, I hope in the next 10 years, right, people are going to be asking that question of, well, what's best for me during this time, this phase of my life? You know what I mean? Like, like for women, for example, you know, as to, you know, perimenopause, menopause, we go through so many changes, our skin changes. We, I would love to see that conversation one day when we're going to our doctors, going to our estheticians and saying, give me the protocol I need for this decade of my life, you know, and, and early in like, I think 2020, I remember I wrote a post on social media about thinking your skincare with your cycle, which at the time was pretty revolutionary as well, because yeah, it's not just the decades, right, which is very true. And a lot of our clients are, you know, perimenopause, menopause. But even when you do have a cycle, you have like monthly fluctuation of hormones, you know, that you have your skin changes and how can you adapt to it and, and, you know, not have everything that comes with it like hormonal acne or whatnot, your ways to look at how it affects skin. By the way, by the way, you want to talk about, again, a paradigm shift of, you know, a big subset of people is obviously GLP ones and how that weight loss, you know, injections in general, and how they will affect skincare. I mean, shout out to Image, a very, very cool company, very cool skincare company that decided that they're making a product designated for people who are going through GLP ones. Do I think it's needed? Probably not, because you are, you are still an individual past that. You're not now a category of people as a whole. But I think it's a really cool idea that they went that way, right? Like, yeah, looking at, as actor was saying, there are certain things that, you know, affect your skin from the different levels, be it hormonal, like, you know, what you do to yourself through peptides and just really serving. Yeah, but, but spoiler alert, we're actually, so this is a, this is a part of Young Goose that is, that is, that we were building right now under the surface. So very soon, we're going to launch an AI kind of camera ability to kind of decipher what's going on on a pretty deep level, but level that AI allows us now. And what we're going to launch through our partners in clinics, because we have 140 clinics in the states that offer Young Goose. And, you know, if someone goes to the website, they can kind of search which one stores is to them, we're going to have a dry blood spot test that tests how your cells create different ingredients for your skin. It's called metabolomics, so not metabolic, but metabolomic testing. And we'd be able to, of course, you know, we're a skincare company, we're going to, you know, your physician's going to be able to recommend products, obviously, to what's good for your skin. But you can actually track the metabolites, you know, you can retest, right? So you can actually now with testing track your skincare products, like you apply them and you see what's actually changing in your body, what that's brilliant. Actually go up and etc. So that's, that's something we've been working on for a really long time. We were looking to launch it like two years ago. It has to be perfect. So it has to be, has to be perfect. And our hope is that, you know, practitioners are going to be empowered also to recommend things past skincare again, like supplementation, lifestyle habit, things like that. Because as we said, everything works together at the end of the day, if you only use skincare to, you know, to interact with those deficiencies, are you going to get better results? Yes. But we want to obviously create better humans, you know, that function better, that have better cellular function as a whole. So as much time and effort we put into, like, educating our consumers, we also educate our wholesale partners. We have a, you know, program that we're like, almost done creating that will support also this rollout. So they actually are much more versed in that longevity space. And how can they support their patients to get better results and to work, not just without products, but yeah, in general, be like kind of longevity skin health certified and have that background because they weren't taught that at schools and not everybody has the time to see through the research. So having the place where they can do that. That's amazing. I'm really excited to hear that. That's actually very, very brilliant because, I mean, exactly to your last point, there's nowhere to learn this stuff. And I mean, you can go through, I mean, I've gone through what like 30 years of my life in medical training. And I can tell you honestly, I learned more in a month of life that I learned in school. So we don't learn any of this stuff, you know, and it's really, really difficult to, I think, understand longevity for a lot of physicians. I've seen a lot of physicians try to, you know, and this is feeding into my next question for you guys is like this idea of like, what really is biohacking? What are we optimizing? Like a lot of physicians are having a hard time wrapping their heads around it, especially in the skin health space. But I think you're right in the sense of like, let's give them a framework, you know, and providing them the data, I think it's going to be really, really intuitive on their end to be like, oh, okay, this is what it means. This is how I can incorporate this into my patient care, into my actual education that I do with patients. That's huge. So it really hats off to you guys for thinking ahead like that. That's amazing. Yeah. And so, I mean, my next question, though, I want to introduce my next question, which is really what is that balance between like biohacking and maybe over optimizing? I mean, I would love your, your, you know, words of wisdom on that topic, because we hear biohacking a lot these days, but I think it's being misused also, you know, and so. First of all, I think intuitively that's a very, I mean, the problem that we have, well, Anastasia and I love the biohacking community. It is our home. Yeah. And we are very grateful to this community, to this day, every time we go to a biohacking conference, that's, you know, the best thing that we have going on this year, that year, and this year too. However, the problem we have with the biohacking community, the word is that it is very agro. It's very forceful. And I think, you know, it is it's running the risk everywhere, but it's, but specifically in skincare, turning it to another form again, of stress, of just like pushing further than physical limits. So yeah, we do, we do think about constantly talk about it constantly. The biohacking world can be obsessive. And, you know, people are tracking everything. They're so busy worrying about optimizing everything. And it can be really scary to mess up or forget the step. And, you know, so all of it could result into like more stress, bad stress. And our philosophy when we're when we're calling ourselves a biohacking skincare, it's actually like to remove the extra steps and remove the overthinking and like to simplify, you know, that's don't add more products, make the ones you use work harder. And that's why we we kind of have this framework of addressing all 12 hallmarks of aging is, you know, if you if you choose your protocol, which in our case protocol does not have to be 12 products, it could be easily like, you know, three to four products, but they will address all of those needs and stack and compound everything you need long term. So that's really, I think, how we think about it. Yeah, I think 12 step routine is possible just to just to for everyone who is into their step 12 step routine. If you're that person like Anastasia is not saying about the products that she uses, but if you're a person like Anastasia that have seemingly seemingly endless amount of output over the amount of energy that she can dedicate in every little thing, you know, she's a co CEO of a company, mother, creator, writes everything, oversees everything, does a 12 step routine, does her facial exercises in front of red light in the evening, guess who's not like that. That's this guy. Yeah, pointing at himself for those who are listening. Well, that's why she looks amazing, though. I mean, she's radiant. I agree. I agree. But the thing is this, if you are that person, if you can match this level with, you know, being very mindful on everything else, we talked about, you know, a little bit about diet, other bio hacks like red light hyperbaric oxygen therapy, hit training, optimized nutrition, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you want to push your skin further and you have the ability to be to be very mindful with every product, see how you react to every product, build carefully and and stack things, do it, go for it. But most people, my opinion is that of course, some of them in my opinion, but my experience is that it is true that we have decision and attention fatigue. And it is our responsibility as a brand to say we don't want to be the entire your entire decision journey during the day or your entire intention journey during the day. Because again, we're shooting ourselves in the foot. We want to both, what I call it, we have two budgets, we have financial budget and we have attention budget, we want to encroach on your budget to a to a to a to a degree which you are comfortable in. So for me, for example, it's about three, four products maximum. I'll do that. And I'll have enough enough output available enough bandwidth available, do hyperbaric oxygen therapy or do something else that's very good for my health. Never mind, I don't want to brag with the wellness things that we do, but we do wellness things as well. And they're important as well. And make sure my diet's on point. And I'm not being lured that mashed potatoes are not calling me too forcefully, right? I mean, it's important to realize that the nervous system doesn't care if if if what's in your skincare products, what's in your formula, if the whole ritual gives you anxiety and you're just like mouse trap. Yeah, the hamster wheel hamster wheel hamster wheel. We saw it with nutrition. We saw it with nutrition. Yeah. Yeah. I just really want that the skincare ritual with us would feel like doing less and getting more as a result. And that's the whole point. Yeah, I remember we when we again when we now everything is diverging. But when we started again, our way to consultancy the biohacking space before starting on Goose and we were involved in a lot of industries that are now that now seem separate like keto ketogenic diet, for example, that's what you know, 2015 that those were the same people there were they weren't different. It was like keto peptides biohacking. It's the same people, right? So I remember talking to people as far as nutrition and the way they talked about the amount of, you know, attention they get, they gave their nutrition every day, testing whatever 700 monitors on them. And, and, and, you know, they read all the latest articles and stuff like that. And you were like, wow, I am not you, but thank you for paving the path. I'll pick and choose whatever I can do. Right. Yeah. And I but we do know people that that that have developed a, you know, very stressful relationship with with healthy eating with and it became unhealthy for them to obsess about healthy eating. And skincare, we cannot do that in skincare. The minute we are starting to introduce negative emotional outputs, inputs, I'm sorry, into the people's psyche. Again, as a brand, we're going to get we're going to give you less results. So it's a very fine line. If we are interested in having a relationship with our customers for, you know, for 10 years, for 20 years, for 30 years, which is what longevity skincare is supposed to be doing. Yes, absolutely. Now, very well said. And I mean, I've learned so much in this conversation. Honestly, you guys, I can't thank you enough. I mean, this is this is the exact kind of, I think, well, thinking that we need to propagate in this industry because there need to be more intelligent questions asked, right? At the end of the day, like we can't keep going as a substitute of the hamster wheel, we got to get off that hamster wheel, and we have to make a new wheel, like let's get off. And so I mean, things like, you know, youthful skin is a behavior that's a huge takeaway from a conversation like this, you know, and then the whole conversation on recovery capacity and understanding what, you know, sequencing of, you know, anything is, right? And the biology and the logic and physiological logic of, of these kind of products, that is something that it's not going to happen overnight. But I really feel like once people start using products like this in a meaningful way, you will see results that are just incomparable to anything else, you know? And I think I would tell you, you had said this at one point in the conversation, you said about the whole, you know, instant, or I don't know, I think I understand you said this about the instant gratification thing where it's like, even if you go to get something done, you're going to have damage down the road, you know? And that's what I think consumers have to start understanding is that you can get whatever you want done, but there is going to be an aftermath. Your skin doesn't forget, you know, no organ forgets. Like we talk about this and I have a, you know, background in GI, I can tell you with the liver, right? Like the liver is one of the most regenerative organs in our body, but the liver never forgets. It has hundreds of enzymes working so that it can deal with all of your stuff, you know? And then it remembers what it can cannot tolerate and it remembers its thresholds and every organ works like that. So I think when we start thinking in those terms, we reprogram a lot, you know, whether it's psychological, whether it's, you know, biological, it doesn't matter. We're doing a reprogramming. And so anyways, without me ranting too much, I think this is amazing. And I can't thank you guys enough for this wonderful conversation. I've learned so much. Thank you so much for having us.