This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing day 30. Is this possible? Was the case bungled at the get-go, and can it be recovered? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Look at the perp. Five foot nine to five foot ten. Video is always the best of it. Is there an accomplice? Something protruding that resembles a phone. The vehicle is the linchpin to cracking a case wide open. How the heck has this guy managed to outsmart the feds? This case is full of hypothesis, theories, mystery guy in a video, when in the end it comes down to an 84-year-old woman who's not with her family. Straight out to Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mack, day 30. What's the latest? We are now at that one month part of the investigation of the kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie. And it's shocking that as we are moving this week, it's like a whole new investigation. There's been a lot of movement in the last couple of days. Specifically, homicide detectives are now added to the case. Also, the photos, the video from the Ring doorbell camera that we had last week of cars at 2.30 in the morning, about two and a half miles from Nancy Guthrie's house. Well, now where the FBI at first said, well, there's not much to it. It's not part of the investigation. Well, now everybody is flipping and saying, yes, this could be the break in the case. We've got a camera showing a car driving towards the house at 2.30 and leaving back the same way. 237 or 238. Brian Fitzgibbons, as we look at the cars two and a half miles from the house going back and forth, as we look at the right wrist of the suspect on the front porch, is that a tattoo? We also spent a lot of time talking about a possible walkie-talkie communication device in the front pocket, but now taking a closer look, it appears to be an antenna sticking out of the perp's pocket. Talk to us about what we're looking at or what we're possibly seeing. Is that an antenna and what would it be? Yeah, absolutely, Dave. So speculation has gone really in two directions with this antenna. One, that it's a walkie-talkie that the perpetrator was using to communicate with a driver so as to not leave behind any cell phone data or signals. And the second piece direction this speculation is going is that it could very well be a signal jammer. Now, what is that signal jammer? This is a $30 to $40 device that can easily be obtained on illegal online markets. And that signal jammer will broadcast a radio frequency that will effectively overwhelm any devices connected to Wi-Fi within a 25 to 50 meter range. Now, how would that be used here? We see in many home invasion burglary cases, these types of signal jammers being used. And what it's going to do is effectively disconnect those security cameras, in this case, the Nest camera, from sending any push notifications, emergency alerts in that short window of time while you're close to the device. New video footage uncovered of 12 separate vehicles speeding by in Nancy's neighborhood directly onto her street between 12 a.m. and 6 a.m., the very night Nancy is abducted, around 2 a.m. Shocker. One of those vehicles that many people have identified as a Kia Soul speeds by just eight minutes after Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker stops connecting to Bluetooth. What is the significance? Let's see a look at what the FBI is looking at along with us. This is a neighbor around two miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home. This is from their home cam street facing. Why is this significant? This is from our friends over at Fox News Digital, by the way. Look at the vehicles. They're not just vehicles in the neighborhood. They are vehicles, this goes right onto Nancy Guthrie Street, between 1230 a.m. and 6 a.m. Who is out driving around at the exact time Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped? unnapped, a few blocks away, one of the vehicles, just eight minutes after her pacemaker disconnects from Bluetooth. Joining us at All Star Panel, but first of all, straight out to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave, tell me about this video. You know, Nancy, it's shocking when you look at the video, you're seeing this ring camera picking up the car, driving on what is considered a back road. It's not a road that is traveled on a regular basis by a lot of people. But those familiar with the area, Nancy, would know this is a perfect way out of Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. And as you mentioned, the 2.36 a.m. marker is really important because Nancy's pacemaker, attached by Bluetooth at 2.28 a.m. This is about seven and a half minutes later, the exact amount of time it takes to drive from Nancy Guthrie's home to this location on the ring doorbell camera footage we're seeing. This camera footage was available, Nancy, but it was just outside of the two-mile circumference that law enforcement put up as their ring around the actual crime scene. It's two and a half miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home. But again, it is an area that leads away from her neighborhood, and it perfectly catches these cars. We mentioned a minute ago, between midnight and 6 a.m. that day, 12 cars traveled down that road, this one at 2.36 a.m. Guys, this is our friends at Fox News. Let me go straight out to special guests joining us. Eric Drickerson is with us, former FBI special agent, 20 years, who has specialized in international kidnapping. Many times in your cases, you have used surveillance video like this. And this was a near miss. It was just outside that two mile radius where the FBI and local sheriffs were looking. What do you make of this, Eric? Yeah, Nancy, this falls in line with their normal investigative procedure. What they're going to be doing, obviously, they're focusing on the evidence collected at the scene of the crime. But as they work further and further away from that epicenter, they're going to look at cameras. The next logical step would be to follow points of entry and exit to the community. They're going to be looking at what we call choke points or where vehicles have a tendency or a natural tendency to flow. And they're going to be trying to put together additional pieces. When I look at this video, the unfortunate side is obviously the resolution doesn't provide us details like license plate numbers. It does provide insight. It does provide enough detail for them to follow up on additional leads. And Nancy, this could be something that is significant in the case. I talked about this before. As they open that circumference from the center of the crime, they're going to reveal additional information. Now, I would like to say whether or not this vehicle was involved in the actual crime itself, it is of significant relevance because it was in the area when the crime occurred. So whether it is directly related to the criminal activity or to the abduction or whether or not they are a valuable piece of evidence in being a witness, it's still a very, very relevant breaking evidence and news. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now, to Brian Fitzgibbons. You know him well. He is Director of Operations USPA Nationwide Security. Brian, you and I have dealt with a lot of cases that were cracked because of a car. Already, our online sleuths have identified one of the vehicles as a Kia Soul. What do you make of the car information? Yeah, you're spot on here, Nancy. And very quickly, online sleuths identified that this is a Kia Soul. And I want to add something. Eric did a great job describing how they're expanding that radius with collecting video. Sources have reported that law enforcement has collected nearly 10,000 hours of surveillance video related to this case. So what does that say to us? This one happened, this video happened to come to Fox News. Okay. There are tens of thousands of hours that has not come to Fox News and that law enforcement is going through the process of triaging based on the time, the location of those cameras, the time of the recording. And they're starting to process that all now. A lot is being made online. It's helpful. It's not helpful. It's a dead end. It's a lead. You can't listen to anything you're hearing or reading in the media. Media on the outside, law enforcement on the inside. But I am telling you that every bit of video is being reviewed by the feds. Guys, this video is provided to us from our friends at Fox News. Brian Fitzgibbon, speaking of the video and whether it's real or not real, and sources say it is and sources say it's not. What about the speed? He's, the driver is flying by and it makes me remember how fast Brian Koberger, he was like a bat out of H-E-double-L, flying, flapping as fast as he can to get out. Wings on fire. Okay. Koberger flying out of there. And the particular car that goes by right after Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker disconnects from Bluetooth is flying Brian Fitzgibbons. Yeah, it looks like that vehicle's moving at a pretty high rate of speed. And as we've seen in this case, these roads are very dark residential areas. So that could be an anomaly to be driving that at that high rate of speed at that time of night. Joining us now, Heather Barnhart, digital forensics expert with Celebrite. You heard all about that in the Alex Murdoch trial, crack the case wide open. and the SANS Institute, System Admin Audit Network and Security. She worked on the Brian Koberger case. She is the co-author of Practical Mobile Forensics, now in its fourth edition. Wow. Heather, thank you for being with us. Heather, I want to circle back to the video that has just surfaced about the video of the vehicles flying by at the same time Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped in her neighborhood. What do you make of that? Video forensic experts will be able to slow down those vehicles to the point of us being able to identify make and model. They should also be able to detect speed. So if you think you're involved in a crime, you're probably driving pretty quickly. And this is exactly what happened with Brian Koberger. He tore out of that neighborhood in that vehicle. That car was the second most important identifier to the DNA to getting access to Brian Koberger and leading to an arrest. So this could be what investigators need all along to identify who is involved in this crime. So Heather, what about the fact that to the naked eye, to us, the video looks blurry? Oh my goodness. In my terrorism investigations, we were able to identify things that you can enhance this footage Think about what AI can do for us in forensics This is a perfect example of using AI to clean up an image remove the blur slow it down and have vehicle experts say, I know that this is likely this make and model, probably of this year. And then you go into the records and see who in that area owns vehicles that match that description. And it will really pare down the amount of people that need to be questioned at this time. Todd Shipley joining us, digital cybercrime expert, former Detective Sergeant Reno PD. Todd Shipley, thank you for being with us. How will the feds go about enhancing this video? Well, they're going to take the screenshots out of it and try to figure out what they can find from that one particular shot and identify if there's anything that's usable in that shot it's pretty quick shot that's moving so it's not something that's going to be an easy thing to do but they're going to take that video and the stills and try to enhance whatever they can to find anything descriptions bumper stickers the license plate obviously if they can figure any of that out the year making model obviously is important because then they can start tracking down who owns those in the state and try to figure out you know what potential list of suspects they might have who own that kind of car and then start contacting each one. Guys, this video from our friends at Fox News. Someone out there knows something that can bring her home. Somebody knows. We are begging you to please come forward now. We have been given video from Nancy Guthrie's front porch. Look at the perp. He's ready. He's got his hands covered in gloves. Look to be latex, not the thin surgical gloves. Thicker latex. He's wearing a backpack. Hey, jump on that. What kind of backpack? Sold where? When? leaning over. What is he doing? You're about to find out. Genius pulled some foliage and he's going to try and cover up the camera with it. He's still trying to get it loose. He's still trying to crack it loose, leaving no fingerprints. Even his wrists are covered up. Keep going. Keep going. There you go with the foliage. He's trying to cover up the door cam. Watch. Look at this. He came prepared full-on ski mask, wrists covered, face covered, hands covered, trying to cover the Nest camera, the door cam. Keep looking. This could be the break we've all been waiting for. Here he comes walking up. And is that a gun he's got tucked into his waistband? Do you see how he's holding his face down? Holding the face down so he won't be identified? Check out the backpack. Reflectors on the shoulders. Come on. Can't we track that? Can we zoom in and get the shoes? We can get his height. We can get so much information. Now, let's see the stills of his face. Bring it in. Bring it in. Let's see the stills. Okay. You know what? She may have had a heart attack. She wakes up and sees that. That looks like a white guy to me. A white guy right there. You can't see it. It almost looks feminine. But apparently in some of the pictures, you see facial hair over the lip. keep looking, keep looking. Is that facial hair over the lip? It looks like brunette facial hair. Can't tell exactly. Keep the picture up there. Dave Mack, does that look like facial hair over the lip? It looks like a mustache to me, Nancy. It absolutely does. Looks like chin hair as well. it. Okay, from that we are learning so much. Again, it almost looks feminine except for what we think could be facial hair. Joining us, an all-star panel. This as we are also learning that buccal or buckle swabs are being taken from the inner circle surrounding Nancy Guthrie, the pool guy, the gardener, the granny nannies, the you name it. And if they're getting buccal swabs from them, I'm sure they've already gotten them from the family. Now, somebody please tell me we've strapped everybody up to a polygraph. And again, I want to show it again. The guy walking up, the guy, the person, the perp, walking up. See, he's even got his neck covered, thinking we won't be able to identify what color he is. This is not just a robbery, just a burglary. We've been going round and round, some people chasing their tails. Is this really a kidnap? I can tell you right now, nobody goes through all this to run in and grab your VCR. What has he got in the backpack? It is chock full. What's in there? It's stuffed so much you can see when he turns around. He's not going in there to take anything. He's taking things in with him. Okay, keep showing it. Let's go to the experts. Straight out to Lee Neubecker, joining us out of Chicago, cybersecurity, digital forensics expert, CEO of Enigma Forensics. What about it, Lee? What do you see? It's interesting because he hunches down as he goes through the walkway. Had he not hunched down, you could go on site, measure the bricks, and get his height. I did a little bit of looking and making some assumptions, and I think the guy's probably between 5'11 and 6'2". But you can also see his shoe size as he stops on those bricks, like right now. And also the first step where he's- Hold it, hold it. Right there. Right there. Yes, you're right. Stop right there. Stop. There. You could back up. And if you knew the exact size of that brick, you could probably tell what his shoe size is. He looks like, it appears to be a male based on my review of it, but knowing that his approximate height, his approximate weight, and if his hair color truly is black, which it appears to be from the one shot, but it could be brown. It's definitely something to call. I thought your comments about having the family members take a polygraph was a good idea, but maybe matching up the height of the people to see if they match up at least to the shoe size, which doesn't appear to be larger than size 12. Oh, it is a man. There's no doubt about it being a man. It's a feminine with feminine attributes. But statistically, this is a man. And it's a freaky white man. statistically that's exactly what it is look at what he's doing dave mack what is he doing right there trying to dislodge the door cam he's looking for something and we've been him reaching down to get the uh the some type of shrubbery but nancy look look at his hands those gloves it looks like he's wearing two pairs of gloves those things are stretched and that hand yes it much thicker than it would be for a person of his size. And so I'm thinking that over glove, he's got another glove underneath, which kind of goes back to that backpack. Why in the world would anybody come to an event like this with a backpack so filled that, I mean, what else does he need? You're talking about an 84-year-old woman who can't walk very far. Why would you need to have your backpack all filled with stuff. You're right. It does look like his clothes, his hands, his legs are stuffed. What about it, Neubecker? There's several things to notice here. The center of his pupils, he's centered up looking directly at the nest cam. He's got what appears to be a bite of light in his mouth. You'll see when he's bending over, he turns on the flashlight to find the grass that he grabs, but notice the shadow underneath his chin. Also, as he puts his hand forth, notice the glove. You can see there's a bright light source coming from the front towards the camera. And as this progresses, you'll see when he's got the camera blocked, you can see that there's a light emitting from the camera. The fact that there's a shadow under his chin tells you that the camera's slightly higher than where his eyes are. That causes the shadow to chaos. Does anyone detect a beard? I think he has chin hair, Nancy. He's in that one photograph. You can see that he appears right there. You see the dark, what appears to be a darker shade there underneath his lip line. That could be indicative of facial hair. And then of course the mustache potentially above that. One other thing I think we're learning here is this gentleman is very, very comfortable doing what he's doing here. The Guthrie family has been notified about these images that have been shared with the FBI, we are told. But according to the family and law enforcement so far, no one recognizes who the person could be. Because there was no recognition, no one could identify this guy right here. The FBI posted the images and the videos on a public post in the hope and the prayer. Someone could recognize the perp or even the clothing, which absolutely could lead to a break in the case. Look carefully on the perp's left strap. An individual has spotted and now publicized a black star on the jacket. Take a look. Let's see it isoed very quickly. A star-shaped pattern in black. Look at this. It was shared widely on Twitter, X. What, if anything, does it mean? It could mean nothing or it could mean a break in the case. This post from Trill on X. Straight up to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave, what can you tell me about the star? because we have gone back and reviewed the original video released by Cash Patel, released by law enforcement, and you can see that in the look. There it is. Now, when it's highlighted and put on X, you can see much better and you see red stitching. But you can see that. What do you know, Dave? Nancy, you know, this has just come up in the last hours. And a lot of people are trying to search for that particular star and where it is located on other backpacks. And, Nancy, you know, we've even gone back and forth here about, well, do you see it? Do you not? It's a catch-22. I don't know what is actually on the strap versus the jacket and trying to locate it. You can't see anything there. but right there you can see it on his left strap what appears to be a star guys if you look at different angles sometimes you can see it sometimes you cannot see it is it real in any event eric drickerson this is a type of detail that has to be chased down by the feds right every detail can matter yeah and it's nancy it's a relevant detail because it serves two purposes really number one the uniqueness of that star could help determine where that article of clothing or that backpack came from. That's an important detail. And the second point is it can help in asking for public assistance. This is somewhat unique and it can help some witness or somebody who's willing to cooperate, identify that clothing associated with a person. So either way, I think it's relevant, whether it's a star, whether it's something else, just the fact that it's somewhat unique to that article of clothing. What about it, Brian Fitzgibbons? What, if anything, can you do with that? A detail like that can go a long way. Jump in. Absolutely. And, you know, it's going to help investigators identify, you know, was this a piece of clothing that was produced with that star on it You know that the brand logo or whatever Or was this an aftermarket thing You know are there embroidery shops in Tucson that have put on 50 of these for a small business or a school or something related to it? So, you know, this will be very identifiable if that is indeed an embroidered star on that jacket. Other video emerges. Let's see it. Dave Mack, take a look at this and explain what we're seeing, Dave. Go. This is the same porch guy that we've been talking about, but this time it's a different place, a different angle. And as you can see, as he's walking, he has a very specific gait, a very specific stride. Watch as he is walking. He's got something tied around his waist. Is that a shirt, a jacket? This is from, again, not the same house. We're not talking at the Guthrie's. It's a different place, but in the same general area. So we've got him walking at night. And again, see, there we go. A very specific stroll as he's walking. It's odd, just odd to be walking at that time. Yes, guys, we're getting that because we have been watching you from How Tech to On X. How Tech to On X. Now, Dave, I guess you've gotten your crystal ball out yet again and you can tell me without a doubt that that's the same guy that was on nancy guthrie's porch oh i'd have a field day with you on cross but you actually may be right where are you getting your deduction i'm making it up i i'm seeing a guy dressed in very similar outfit to the man on can you just say you're making it up well i'm looking at a Wait, wait. Did you just say you're making it up? Well, yeah. I mean, I'm making up that I actually see a guy on video. I'm hearing him. Mute him. And I'm going to let him think about what he just said. OK. In the meantime, while Dave is pondering his future, straight out to Scott Eichner joining us, digital expert, founding member of Sailor Analysis Survey team with the FBI. You have thoughts on that. And actually, Dave Mack could very well be right. He could be right. But I want to hear your analysis. Well, when we're looking at that video there, you can't really tell if it's the same guy or not. But what I don't know is when was that taken? You know, was it close to near Nancy Guthrie's house? It was interesting to see after this person walks past the camera that a police car comes by. So someone called the cops on him and maybe he was identified. is this one of the homeless encampment people that are walking around at night that just happen to be passing by this house? Either way, the important part is, is neighbors or people in the area are providing their camera information to the authorities. Hopefully not just on X, as you said, this gentleman had posted, but they're giving it to law enforcement so they can piece it together just to see if it's relevant or not. Okay, let's see him walk by again. Let me see that portion where he is walking by, if you can rack it back up. There he goes. Look at that. Is he wearing a hoodie or is he wearing a baseball cap? He definitely has on a backpack with reflective lights on it. I can see them and they're on the shoulders, just like the porch guy. Is he, Dave Mack, you're off probation. Let's see, look at that again. Dave, look at this. Is the jacket he's got wrapped around his waist the one that he's later wearing in the Nancy Guthrie porch video? I mean, you may not be half wrong, Dave, but you're still on double secret probation, Mac, for saying you made something up. But what else are you discerning from it very quickly? i know i'm i was just really trying to point out nancy when we looking at this video um from the same neighborhood at night as like you're pointing out you've got a police car actually turning around in the neighborhood um what are the odds that we've got multiple people on any night other than halloween walking in a neighborhood at night dressed up in a very similar outfit to the person we see later at 1 47 a.m. or thereabouts on Nancy Guthrie's front porch. To whoever has her or knows where she is, that it's never too late. And you're not lost or alone. And it is never too late to do the right thing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Video that has emerged online, on social, we see yet another video that has been posted. It appears to be a white or Hispanic male on the front porch reportedly from a home in the vicinity of Nancy Guthrie's home where she was kidnapped. This is an example of one of the many, many videos reportedly caught on door cam, surveillance cam, and posted. This as a composite has been released. But first, back to the video we just showed. Let's see that again. This guy featured in this video has not been named as a suspect, a person of interest in anything in relation to Nancy Guthrie's case. Tammy Ballard joining us, DNA crime scene consultant, crime scene investigation and reconstruction expert, law enforcement liaison at Othram Labs and former DNA criminalist in the San Diego Police Department Crime Lab. Tammy, it's really important that we don't have a wild goose chase for the wrong guy. Right. But please, everybody keep sending your videos, your door cams, your everything, because you never know when you're going to hit. All right. This guy we're showing you. Let's see him again. no one is naming him as a defendant or a perp or a co-defendant in this case. Timmy Ballard, why is it so important that the wrong person is not named? You do not want to follow a pathway and lose valuable time. So at this point, excluding somebody is as important as including somebody. So whatever information that you can get, whatever items of evidence you can get to include or exclude somebody is very, very critical at this time. Door cams, surveillance cams, yard cams, hunting cams, wildlife cams are being combed at this hour. Much of that video is being posted online. Much of it is being sent to the FBI. They want it. We keep hearing about the tens of thousands of tips that are pouring in. That's their job. They have an entire and elite crew set up. Joining me, Scott Eicher, digital forensics expert, founding member of the Cellular Analysis Survey team, CAST with the FBI. They are the people, the women and men, you can thank for pulling up that front door video. Let's see it because it's amazing. Remember Sheriff Nano said at the beginning, Oh, shucks, everybody. It's just such a terrible coinkydink that Nancy Guthrie did not have a subscription to her nest because if she had paid that extra $8.99 a month, then we'd have the videos of the perp. Darny, darn, darn. The FBI was finally invited in. They cannot just come in unrequested. And they used their CAST team to comb all of the data points, literally trillions of data points of information through Google, who owns Nest. Guthrie had a Nest cam, a Nest system. And out of all of those trillions of points of data, they find Nancy Guthrie's little itty bitty door cam and they resurrect this. It's amazing. So, Scott, who is wading through all of these videos? Like the one we're just saying, guy, not a suspect. That's an example of some of the videos that are being sent in. Who is doing it? Well, you've got probably 100 analysts in the command post and some being working remotely, going through all these tips and ring camera and nest camera video to try to collate and figure out which is important, which is not important, and kind of matching up movement of people through different cameras. Just like this Nest camera that Cast was able to get, we had a good relationship with Google over the years dealing with their location information. So when we heard that the Nest camera was being used, we were able to contact those partners and they were able to pull that video. So this is fantastic that we got this. there's going to be tons of people going through all the videos and tips that people are providing from their cameras in the neighborhood for that whole month, as we've heard that the police department and FBI are asking for video from almost a month back. So it's going to be a ton of work. I want to move now off of the video of possibly an unrelated guy on a porch that somebody sent in reportedly from Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. There he is on top. Not a suspect, not a person of interest, but whoever sent it is well-intentioned. This is from USA News HQ on X. That's where it was posted. At this hour, we have a composite. Dave Mack joining me. Let's look directly at the composite. Don't dilute it with any other video or photo, please. Let's look directly at the composite. Dave Mack, tell me about the composite. From where did it come? Well, Nancy, the FBI created this composite when we saw them putting up the tent to do measurements in that entryway. They were looking for ways to figure out height, weight, and everything else. They've taken all of their knowledge of breaking down the video, and as was just mentioned a minute ago, we don't know what we're not being shown. Okay, what we're being shown is one thing, but they, they being the FBI and the sheriff's department probably have a whole lot more than they're sharing with us. But this composite sketch is very specific. Look at the facial hair, Nancy, and how we all video and thought he's got a mustache, possibly a goatee. Well, this is a very specific look, also very specific hair length. And we know that the A person seen on the porch wearing a hat covering his head. And so they've been able to come up with this based on all of the knowledge they have and all of the background in developing a composite. Look at that right there. You've got that knit hat pulled down tight, yet they're able to come up with the type of hair they expect to see on this individual. A lot of work going into this and using everything possible to come up with height, weight, and again, the actual look of the individual. So let me understand this, Dave Mack. This is not an official sketch. This is not released by the FBI, and this is not released by Nanos. No, it is a retired crime sketch artist out of Houston named Lois Gibson, and she did this unofficially, not asked or invited, just did it. out of her own background and knowledge and drew the sketch. The FBI has given us the basic parameters of the height of a male who is 5'9 to 5'10 average build and wearing the black 25-liter Ozark Trail hiker pack backpack. If you see anything, if you hear anything, if there's anything at all that seems strange to you that you report to law enforcement. We are at an hour of desperation. And we need your help We learn a slowed down look at the porch guy reveals what appears to be a cell phone display in the background Is that why Sheriff Nanos, in his wisdom, continues to say there is an accomplice? Also, do we see identifying markers of a walkie-talkie peeking out of the porch guy's pocket? I want to identify what appears to be, and it seems to be convincing, in a slow-mo of the porch guy video. There appears to be a cell phone display off to the side. Now, I want to see that still, isolated still, and I want to see it in slow-mo. So if I could get the control room to show that as I go to the guests with me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we are learning right now. Straight out to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Wow, you really have to slow it down to see it, Dave Mack. should I believe nanos or my lying eyes that looks like a cell phone display Dave looks like one to me too Nancy and yeah you got to slow it down but you can see something clearly there it's rectangular you know looks like a like a phone which this is something we've been pointing to all along that there's got to be help here and check that out look you're seeing it right there on the edge of the screen boom that is not the guy covering up the lens that is somebody else with that camera or phone rather. Joining me now, veteran trial lawyer, Josh Colesroot from this jurisdiction, currently criminal defense attorney, former federal prosecutor, founder of Colesroot Law Offices. Josh, I actually don't need an esteemed founder, a cellular analysis survey team to tell me what I'm seeing. Do you see that, Josh? Yes, ma'am. It looks like there is something protruding out of somebody's pocket that resembles a phone. And this could be the smoking gun that we're all waiting for. I mean, this cellular phone, as we all know, has so much data that if that phone is on, it's only a matter of time before the FBI gets a hold of the information. Hopefully we're able to identify a suspect soon. Scott Eicher, based on the shape of based on where we're seeing it. Thank you for circling it. That's perfect. Thank you, control room. How could it be anything else? That's tough. I do see the kind of rectangular flash of possibly a cell phone. Is it a reflection from something else? Is it, you know, I have no idea what it is. I give you the benefit of the doubt that that could be a cell phone. and we're assuming that they're going to have a cell phone anyway. It really doesn't matter whether we see it in the camera. We're going to assume they have one. No, but this is a second person. It's not the person struggling with the foliage, Scott. It's a second person with a cell phone. I need to see it again, please, in slow-mo if you can, because some people suggest maybe it's the reflective backpack. I don't see how that's possible right there at that juncture. Dave Mack, what do you think about the possibility? It's the reflection on the backpack because it seems to show up and then go away. And that wouldn't be so if it were the backpack. I think it really is when you look at where the suspect is standing, okay, and where he's moving his hand, the backpack is going to be more towards the center of the screen. So, you know, because he's using his left hand on the shrubbery there to try to cover the lens. So to me, it looks like this is something clearly being moved by someone else on the other side of the of the suspect here. It doesn't you know, that's what I'm seeing anyway. OK, Colesrood, have you looked at this and what if so, tell me your analysis. You know, I my first thought is this couldn't be the backpack because it would be obstructed by the body. I mean, the backpack is on the back. and when you look at this, it just, it resembles what any layman would say is a cell phone and it needs to be investigated one way or the other. Well, the reason I don't think it's the backpack, Josh, if you look at the backpack, there's also reflective strips right here in the front. So I think that that is what some people are talking about. But the issue is, play it again, please, when you see it pop up, It's disjointed from the actor. It's disjointed from him. It darts in as he's already acting. See what I mean? It's not connected to his movements, which makes me think it's not the backpack. I want you to see this. Everybody on the panel, take a look at this. It looks as if a walkie-talkie, I'll just call it an antenna, for lack of a better word, It's protruding from the porch guy's right pocket. Look at that. I think, okay, that looks, yeah, that's his left pocket. Look at that. Left pocket. Can we, can we zoom in on that again? And if you could give me a still and enlarge it. It looks like the antenna of a walkie-talkie, which further signifies an accomplice. Okay, straight back out to veteran trial lawyer joining us tonight, Josh Colesroot. He's in this jurisdiction. Good or bad that there is an accomplice? I say good because it's easier to find two people than it is to find one person. Plus, the more people that are involved, the more likely somebody's going to blab, or the more likely, isn't it always the way, Josh? It's the girlfriend, the wife, the mother, the ex, the little old lady that lives next door to blurt out, hey, wait a minute. I saw fill in the blank. The more people you have involved, the more likely the case is going to be solved. So if there's a walkie-talkie in play, that tells me there is somebody else. Exactly. And, you know, there's an old saying, loose lips sink ships. And the more people you have involved, the more likely somebody is going to open their mouth. They're going to brag about it to their girlfriend. They're going to feel maybe they're left out and they want money. Who knows? The more people involved, the greater the likelihood that this conspiracy is going to be exposed coming up. Back to you, Iker. What about the possibility that a walkie talkie, that is a walkie talkie protruding from his pocket. What does that mean to you evidentially? Well, it's obviously a little more preplanned and more complicated than we thought initially when we see the perpetrators actually planning this a little bit better. If they're planning to have walkie talkies, even though the guy kind of looked fumbling around on the front porch, maybe these guys are a little more sophisticated than we thought. using walkie-talkies to communicate for, you know, security for themselves to say, hey, there's someone walking down the street, get out of there or something like that. It means to me that if that is a walkie-talkie that we're going to, you know, have to be a little more concerned that these guys are more professional than we thought. We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you, and we are ready to listen. Please, reach out to us. I want you to take a look at video. It is from a Ring neighborhood app, and it shows a guy in a similar outfit with not one but two backpacks. Now watch this guy. There he is. He's not dropping the backpack in his left hand. He's holding it over as if he's trying to get through that gate, and he can't do it. Significance, this is around 1 a.m., as I recall, the night that Nancy is kidnapped, and this is near her home. What is he doing? Watch him. He's not going to either car. He's walking off. Who is this guy? Dave Mack with me, Crime Stories investigative reporter. By the way, this is from I, Amy Lee on X. Keep it on the video. I want to keep looking at the video. Dave Mack, explain to me everything you know about this. Well, we know that this was at 1.53 a.m., Nancy, at the same time that we suspect Nancy Guthrie was being or getting ready to be roused out of bed. And what we're watching right there, you're watching the guy, he's walking away like he's going back into a garage area. But Nancy, when he comes back, you'll see the FBI already has this video because these backpacks, first of all, why is he carrying, wearing one and carrying another? He appears to like drag it over the top of the fence like he's looking for a latch somehow to get through that gate. Me talking to somebody on the other side of the gate, like do this, do that. His backpack does have reflectors on it, and that's the really attractive part of this from the standpoint of comparison to what we saw on Nancy Guthrie's porch. But coming back over that gate with that bag again, and you see he's holding it at a high level as he comes over or goes back. Not sure what he's carrying in there, but there's, look, at 1.53 a.m., what is a grown man doing in that spot at that time, wearing a backpack and carrying another and dangling it over a fence. The other guy had two backpacks. Look at the porch guy, the intruder that took Nancy Guthrie. In one photo, he doesn't yet have a backpack. The other guy had two backpacks. Then the porch guy has a backpack. this is all happening at the same time, within the same 20 critical minutes. The backpack he's handling is stuffed to the gills. He leaves with the backpack stuffed to the gills. Now, back to the porch guy, please. That is from iAmyLee on X. That was posted on Neighborhood Ring app. Let's get the video of him where we can see his backpack. And it also is stuffed to the gills. I want to see his backpack. When he turns around, it's completely stuffed. How far away from Nancy's home is this? Five miles, Nancy. There is also video circulating from February 2. What's interesting about this is it looks like the same guy's legs, the stocky thighs. There's the backpack, some more leggings. But I don't see the significance. This from I, Amy Lee on X, because isn't this February 2? The significance is that we've got somebody that is seemingly matching some of the description. You mentioned the legs in a similar type outfit, again, wearing a backpack. And he's out checking cars. Is he trying to find one that's unlocked that he can steal? He's just seemingly walking aimlessly trying to open a car door. But again, you do have kind of a walk to look at. You've got a guy wearing a backpack. I don't know if this is something unique to Tucson, but as an adult male, I don't wear a backpack. And I don't know anybody that does. So it just seems like an odd thing to happen 24 hours after the time we're talking about Nancy Guthrie being home. If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free 800-225-5324. 800-225-5324. Or, if you wish to remain anonymous, 520-882-7463. 520-882-7463. There is a $1.2 million reward combined tonight. $1.2 million reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. Nancy Gray signing off. Good night, friend. Thank you.
