A Seahawks-Rams WTF Classic, an NBA Six-Pack, and Week 16 NFL Picks With Peter Schrager

The Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by the Ringer podcast network. I put up a new rewatchables on Wednesday and on Monday. I did two this week. We did the Sure Thing to Pay Tribute to Rob Reiner on Wednesday. Me and Chris Ryan. I love that movie. You can find it. It's on YouTube, spoiler. Not streaming anywhere. Hopefully Hollywood will figure out a way to get it to stream. We did High Fidelity on Monday. Two really good ones. We have a really good documentary in the music box series on HBO. Ken and Chris have you seen me lately. It's up right now on HBO Max. Watch it whenever you want. You can also watch the one about WizKid or the one about Jeff Buckley. We have three so far. Check all of them out. I made Peter Schrager stay up late to talk about an incredible, we said that word too much, but an incredible Ram Seahawks game. We're going to react off that. We're going to ring our 107 picks. Then I opened a six pack for the NBA. I had some thoughts. I had some more NBA thoughts. This is a fun podcast where we take a break, pro jam, and then Peter Schrager. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting a linebacker on the football field, but getting a line cook. Sure. They both can handle the pressure when it starts heating up, but only one is stopping a touchdown. You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team. So don't settle for just any insurance when it comes to getting help you need. State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right. It is 8.54 Pacific time. Peter Schrager said a couple of days ago, not only do I want to come on Thursday's pod, I want to come on after Ram Seahawks. And I'm like, are you sure you're in the East Coast? You sure you want to do this? You're working all day at ESPN. He said, no, no, I want to do it. And then we have a four hour game. It goes in overtime. The Seahawks win on a two point. It was the most dramatic, probably important Thursday night game at least of this decade. Swings the NFC West. Swings the one seed. The Rams, I don't even feel like they're in disgrace. They did everything they could. They had almost 600 yards. They had the ball almost 44 minutes. And the Seahawks win the game for a variety of reasons. Some good, some dumb. Is that has there ever been a better Thursday night game than that? I don't know. I'm trying to think they had another good Thursday night game a few years back where Tyler Locke had had an incredible catch in the back of the end zone in the first half. Bill, that was so fun. It was so fun. It's like we were both texting throughout and Amazon did that amazing thing that we love. And I know cousin Sal mentions, you know, the Rams, they have a 97% chance win probability on this one. Yeah. I want to see that stat ever again, guys. It doesn't matter. I don't care. I don't care about the win probability. I know. I mean, if we were back in the day when we used to read newspapers, like I could imagine the press box, the ink being dry on the Sam Darnold, you know, article that just can't win a big game always shifts the bed when it matters. He's down his leg, the whole thing, the two interceptions. Check out my iPad all the times I deleted the topics I had for us. It was like, can they play Sam Darnold next week? I had that like written down the third quarter. He was amazing down the stretch and he made all the plays. He really was. It was so fun. And well, but what was weird is they didn't trust him. I thought down the stretch, especially late in the, in the fourth quarter, they were being very careful about how much they wanted to put in his hands where it was like we could also just take this toe tee. But then when it's 3730 and they actually needed him to go down the field, that was the best stretch of the game he had. They threw the ball six times in the first half. JSN at zero yards, one target. They just handed the ball to Charbonne and Kenneth Walker every play. And it's like, oh, they want to win 1310. Well, that's not going to do it. Then he stinks it up in the third quarter. There's, Well, he has two of the worst picks. Horrible picks. It was like he had one bad pick and then the next one was even worse. It felt like he was a pick six, waiting to happen. And like, again, sports writer, it's already done. It's sent to the editor and it's one of those. All right. I'm getting the elevator down and we're going to go talk in the locker room, but I've got everything filled out. I just need to fill in the quotes and we'll get that at the podium and then some stuff at the locker. But the article has been written that the Seahawks have a major problem and this guy is this generations. You fill it in whoever it is who couldn't win the big game, Warren moon, whoever it was, like in the 80s, 90s, whatever. It's like insulting a Warren moon. I'm just saying, you know, I was sitting next to my daughter and she just came, my daughter is home from college. She doesn't care about football. She came down. She was on her phone just sitting next to me watching the game and I was getting so mad at the Seahawks because I have them to win the NFC West. Like I might have had some money on them. I'm rooting against Cooper Cup for fantasy. And she finally just got up and left. She was like, you're psycho. I'm like, why, why do you even watch football when it makes you this crazy? I'm like, you don't understand. Sam Darnold always does this when the game actually matters. This is who he is. I couldn't, I couldn't handle it. And then he redeems himself at an hour. I was trying to think of a great, I know, and Warren moon is probably that's the hall of fame quarterback that won a lot of big games. I'm trying to think of a guy though, but who didn't have the big playoff win, you know, and that would be moon, but I guess in basketball, harden is kind of the equivalent. But these, Darnold's not at that level. Those are hall of fame guys. But he had the last Rams game too, combined with this one where it's like, this is the team you need to beat. And the playoff game last year where he was sacked nine times and looked and he's going to have two back to back 14 and three seasons. I mean, this guy, that was unbelievable. That was unbelievable. And Rams defense played well for 55 minutes of the game. They played great. They were up and then you add in at some gas, every classic game needs to have a bizarre play. The two point conversion that was a backward pass that Charbonne picks up and suddenly counts for two and let's go backwards. He throws a pick. It's 30 14. So we already, and we're in the fourth quarter and we're in two touchdowns and two, two points just to send it to overtime range. Shahid, who they feel like they just keep in the garage and just take them out on Sundays, even in some of the biggest plays of this game, like his speed on the field, like if I'm the Rams, every time he's out in the field, I'm terrified. He was barely playing, but he has that huge punt return. They get a two all of a sudden it's 30 22. Oh, get a stop. Oh, and then the two point and they blow it and they run the worst two point play. I didn't know what the fuck it was. Literally hit the screen pass that hits the other team in the helmet and then all of a sudden they're reviewing it. I've never seen that before. You know, a backward pass that rolls into the end zone. Why did Zach Charbonne even pick it up? Herb streets praising him. It's like, that's good awareness by her. He was just picking up. He was picking the ball up. What did Macaulay say? Because I mean, I'm trying to remember, like, was there an explanation? I guess it makes sense. But on a fourth down, if that were to happen, is that, is that a, are you allowed to like gain yards or is it just on a two point conversion? It was bizarre. And then I guess it counts. Well, no. And I think, isn't the rule you can't advance like a fumble for a touchdown in the last two minutes, but a two point conversion, it's cool. Yeah. Well, you look at, so the Rams had five possessions in the fourth quarter. They somehow couldn't close the game. They missed the field goal. They got conservative. They did. They had a little tight. First half, we're texting. You're like, gosh, McVeigh's going for everything. Four fourth down attempts. They go for it. The most he's ever done in a game. He all did it in the first half and then fourth quarter. It seemed like they got a little bit. All right. Let's kick the ball. Let's punt the ball. Let's kick the field goal. They missed the field goal after we heard how this guy hadn't missed a kick his entire time as a Ram, of course, misses the field goal. I mean, if you're listeners are listening and it's already Friday or Saturday, you're like, wait, this happened, this happened. We are fresh off this thing. So I'm just trying to whack it through my brain and I'm still in shock because it was so fun. Like I love football games that are crazy. That was a crazy game. It was the craziest game of the year. The Rams had in just in the, in the, in the four quarters before we got to Tote, they had the ball for 37 of the 60 minutes and they had over 500 yards and probably couldn't even believe it was going to overtime. Seattle secondary was demolished. They had, they lost three of their best guys. They're all nobody left. And then they're all injured. Right. And then Puka, who I guess just he's like Michael Myers. He like just gained steam as the horror movie goes along. And just when you think he's, he's done, then he gets another one. He gets like a 41 yard touchdown. I went against him in fantasy at 40.5 points. I haven't even, the rest of my team hasn't even played yet in the playoffs. I already feel like I lost. And then Stafford for, you know, looked like there were various points in the game where it was like, he's going to win the MVP. This is a wrap. Yeah. And now he's not even going to be the one seed unless the Seahawks who, by the way, Seahawks they have tough next two games at Carolina, at San Francisco with their left tackle didn't play today. They have all these secondary injuries. They're basically have one receiver, you know, so you can't feel great if you're them. Plus same, I'm not going back to Carolina, but if you're the Rams, you have four losses now you're 11 and four, you lost that Philly game, which was the, one of the three dumbest losses of the year. Yep. You lost that San Francisco, Mack Jones game. And then you lose this game. And Carolina, Carolina and those are your four losses. Good stat. I got friends just texted me second team in history to have a quarterback throw for 450 yards and no interceptions and a wide receiver have 225 receiving yards and still lose. It was, I mean, it's a crazy, crazy game. Well, then you would see, I don't get the interception and no T and then we review it and he didn't get his hands under it. You're like, all right. Not, but after they review it, it's incomplete. He'd already made his entire team run all the way down the end. So celebrate. It's like that. We want to get back in the field. Cooper cup fumbles early. Former Ram. Ram himself later, Ernest Jones, Superbowl hero. He gets that interception. Actually, it's not an interception. These two teams are so intertwined and have so much history. And in recent history, the Rams have just owned the Seahawks, whether it be the playoff game when Jared Goff comes in with nine fingers and beats the Seahawks up in Seattle. And then the last few years, of course, where Darnold just hasn't been able to get it done when he was with the Vikings, obviously, you know, that's fine. But with the Seahawks, they couldn't do it either. So Darnold, Seahawks, the Rams have always been kryptonite for both these guys. And sure enough, they're new. Well, a big picture. Rams dominate that game for the first 50 minutes. And it felt like a different class watching it. It felt like the Rams were the best team in the NFC and maybe even the whole league. And Seattle was the light heavyweight trying to come up and fight the heavyweight. Couldn't really run the ball that effectively. They took out JSN. They really had nowhere else to go. Looked like he was in C and Ghost mode. Their defense couldn't really get pressure. It wasn't like that that crazy 12th man kind of crowd. And the Rams dominated the game and the punt return flipped the game. And then it got weird. And I don't know if I'm the Rams. How do I feel coming out of that game? Like, like, it's like, oh, my God, do we we blew that? But we know we're better than them. Is they are looking in the mirror going, what's wrong? What do we have to what did we do wrong? Is this a flaw? What happens? You thought the Davante Adams situation would be their Achilles heel. However, you go through the box score. Yeah, they're for 457 yards and they had Nakuha catch 12 balls. And then Xavier Smith and Mumfield and Allen and Ferguson and Parkinson and winning thing, they all they all played great. They all played great. There was one reason they lost. It wasn't the law. It wasn't like they missed Davante so much that they couldn't score points. And then the defense was getting pressure. That's a crazy game in a crazy environment up there on a short week in a week where you could make a million excuses, whether it be your number one wide receivers out with a hamstring, your number two or one a wide receivers and dealt with a controversy throughout the week with a streamer. And then the team has to put out a statement. He has to put out a statement. And then, oh yeah, by the way, the head coach had a baby on Monday, has been violently ill the week before and the team had a flight delay. I mean, there's a million ways you could say, let's just not overdo this. That said, that is an all time loss. An all time loss in a game that they needed to win. Yeah. So if they dropped to five, so they're 11 and four now, but by the way, San Francisco, they play Indianapolis and Phil Rivers week 16. We'll be talking about that. Your new picks with me this week. I'll be there Monday night. Yeah. So they could potentially be tied with San Francisco. So maybe maybe you don't even have the five seed locked up. But if you get the five seed this year, I don't feel like that's the same kind of disaster. Carolina Tampa. Yeah, you're playing one of those crappy and they'll be, the Rams would be like a five point favorite. I am personally not sold on Seattle getting through these next two unscathed. I still feel like, I'll look at Fandola as you're thinking about this, but if you had to pick a team, even though the Seahawks have a slight advantage right now, who is going to be the NFC West champion between these two teams, knowing what's left on the schedule where you have San Francisco. San Francisco has the tiebreaker right now over Seattle. They beat them in week one. So, but they play in week 18. Yeah. So if San Francisco and then the Rams go at Atlanta at and then home Arizona, they're not losing again. So they're going to finish 13 and four Rams to be 13 and four. I'd have to do the math out. But like if San Francisco beats what San Francisco got, they got the Colts Colts. They have the the Bears at home. Not an easy one. No, home for Seattle. They went out. Yeah. I have the division odds for you. What do we got? Seahawks minus 135 on Fandola. Was that your first yawn? I didn't yawn. Was it Miniland? Oh, okay. It's like a giggle. Rams plus 270, 49ers plus 330. Feels like all of those should be way closer. I like the Rams plus 270. I'd still feel like they could, I don't think they lose again. And if Seattle and San Francisco, if Seattle loses, well, I don't know, hard to figure out, but it seems like their size should be closer. I was inspired to stay up not only because of this game and me knowing what it would be, but when I heard Zach Lowe breaking down the NBA Cup finals on the East Coast and Connecticut on Tuesday night, that's when I texted you. I'm like, I could do this. You're like same age range. Yeah. Both have kids. Both kids are sleeping about 10 feet away, but that's okay. That's good. I have a couple of small ones for you. You know, it's off the game. Yeah. The Rams, the rare indoor team, that also feels like they're kind of built for January cold weather. Yeah. And I think a big reason for it is Nekua, who's just extraordinary. And I don't, I don't know. It feels a little like watching Cooper Cup that one year where it's like, I don't know how many years somebody can do this where it's just, you're just driving the car 85 miles for seven hours a day. And at some point the car is going to be like, dude, enough. But right now he's the, he's the receiver you would want out of any receiver in the league for a playoff game. So what I like about them is no matter where they're playing in January, I feel like they're okay. I don't know if I feel that way about the Seahawks. Oddly enough, and I don't have the numbers in front of me, Seahawks under Mike McDonald are just incredible on the road. Like they've lost a bunch of games at home, but I think they've lost like two games on the road under Mike McDonald in two years. So I agree. The way they play where they don't run the ball, their offensive line is fine and that they rely on a lot of passes to JSN and then hoping for defensive turnovers and all that. It's a, it's not a brand of football. The other teams pass rush is always feels like it's either getting there. It's almost getting there every play. I'm not sure if that wins a game in Green Bay or Chicago or Philadelphia. I get what you're saying. That said, this team, maybe they won't have to, they might be a go through Seattle. It might be home for two rounds or, or for, you know, one and then go on the road from there. I'm still not positive. He trusts Darnell. There was a play in the first half when McVay was super aggressive and then Seattle at a similar circumstance near midfield. Maybe it was a little more on their end, but it was like a fourth and one and they punted. Yeah. No, I was like, Oh, that's interesting. You still don't totally trust that dude. The entire first half was an indictment on what they thought of Darnell. They were running, I mean, that run game, I think they averaged 2.7 yards per carry all season. They were just running the ball with Sharpenay and Walker. And if he doesn't have that one 45 yard catch early on, there was no passing yards in the first half. So it was this, we're going to protect Sam Darnell approach, which you can't win football games that way, especially with a quarterback making $100 million, which Sam Darnell does. And then the second half, it started off terribly. And then like we said, he was fantastic. The final 10 minutes of this game, he was, you know, far be it for me to make suggestions to an NFL team when they know more about football and plays and personal that I do. It's weird to me that Shahid doesn't play more for them in that they don't look for more ways to just have him on the field being scary. Like I would even consider lining him up at running back just to give the hint of like screen passes or quick coming out of the backfield, anything. I think that guy's terrifying. And every time they use them, he felt like he made an impact. Well, the punt returns have been huge this season. And he's totally, you know, that's that's the play of the game to me. He brought everything back there. No question. And I think he had like, you know, a couple plays in the passing game. But to your point, use them on some trick plays, use them on a reverse, use them on a, you know, whatever it be, get him going. One play down the sideline for 40 yards, just like try to do the Aaron Rodgers. I'll get a pass interference or it's a punt or he'll catch it. I think midway through the game, he had zero targets for zero catches, zero yards. I think it took until the fourth quarter. He actually had a catch, which is strange. I don't get that. Last note I had was I thought that was the most exciting two point in a while. Oh my gosh. And it was hilarious because Herb Street with they're driving in Herb Street. They're unlike the 20 Herbs. She's like, oh, I think if they score a touchdown, they'll probably go for a two point. It's like, yeah, yeah, I think that's what's going to happen. Considering they lost the first matchup and they can't have a fucking tie, they're going to probably go for this. If they go 0-1-1, that doesn't win the division. Doesn't help them, Herbie. They had to do that. I also, it was, even if they had just one matchup, the way these teams are doing it now, it's almost like you're a coward if you don't. All right. Yeah, you're a coward. Like go do it. Like you don't want to hear it. Go show what you're made of and show your team what you're made of. Well, what if you had won the first game? Oh, maybe you kicked the extra point. I don't know. Yeah. The tie is good enough, but then you had to stop them again with three minutes left. Wait, can we do, can we do who you think is going to win the Super Bowl now after you see that game? Because right now on Fandall, Rams plus 490, Seahawks plus 550 are the two favorites. So the Rams are still favored over the Seahawks. Rams are still favored. Interesting. Bills are plus 800. Denver 850. Eagles 10-1. Packers 11-1. What an amazing season that that's our choices. It's so good. You could make cases for all of them. Although I think the Packers might have had too many injuries. I wouldn't really want to make the case for them at this point. Who did you have? I'm not to bring it up if it was bad, but who'd you have? Do you have Ravens before the season? Who was your team to add to the AFC? No, I had Packers over the Bills. Packers, Bills. I had Eagles over Eagles. So we're both still alive here. Yeah. Both of us with Bills. Only the Chiefs picks are not alive. Yeah. I know. Chiefs. I think you should feel good about the Bills because I think they at least know who they are now. And they've been there. They know they don't have deep passes anymore and they figured out how to adjust. And it's Allen and Cook and they're just good enough on defense. And for the AFC, it might be enough. It might be. It might be. We could talk about all the teams. I mean, I've been on the Broncos. You've been on the Broncos from before the season. You picked them to win the AFC West. I was hyping them up just because of, you know, my usual affinity for Sean Payton. But what they do is maddening for the rest of the league. They keep you in a game, keep you in a game. And then they break your heart at the end with a bow, Nick's heroic drive every single time. And they win games by one score and they don't lose at home. And so if there are one. They have a pass rush, they can get a couple of yard passes every play. Best offensive back in football. Yeah. They have they bring things to the table. They have a good home field advantage. Great special teams. And it might work out that you just have to go through there to make the Super Bowl if you're in the AFC, which is good for them because they're good in Denver. I was not, I was obviously not a Nick's guy. And it was one of the, we were calling him boot and rally bow for the first eight weeks. Me and Sal, thought he was great last week. He was really good. And then there was a lot of good stuff this week on the different shows with the video and the all 22 of just like, how good some of his throws were. I even have more than anything. The two high. Yeah. He was beating the two high. Scraping linebacker. Scraping linebacker. They're down 23, 14 and he leads them on three straight scoring drives. And I talked to Peyton this week. He's just like, I love this kid. I'm like, I know, I know that he's like, we got to get Harvey going more. So they don't even feel like they've gotten the rookie running back like in the flow. He's played okay, but they, they still feel like there's more to go on offense and then their defense is legit. So, you know, too high safety. You could talk about all that all you want. I'll talk about the quarterback and the coach and the narrative that they just win at home. And when you need a big kick, will lots will make that big kick. And when you need a big punt return, Marvin Mims will make that big punt return. So it's like, they're very difficult to be because they don't shoot themselves in their own foot. Even though sometimes they make head scratching play calls and you're like, what is Sean doing? They always get their selves out of it and bonus gets a job done. And healthy at this point of the year. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas like the Patriots, I think have gone the other way and have had some some injuries that have hurt. They were probably a little overvalued to begin with, but we're going to talk about them when we do. We'll take a break. We'll do ringer 107. You're going to help me pick this week. I'm going, I'm going nuts on best Thursday night game. I'm trying to rack my brain here. Yeah. See, I did the thing that I hate when other people do and it's like the recency bias. And you just, no, you just assume something was the best because you just saw it. But I think when it's basically you're battling for the number one seed, you have an incredible comeback game with an iconic ridiculous play that we're always going to remember. Like the fucking backward pass and a point that some are counted and a punt return TD and we go an OT and they have to go touchdown two point to swing it and actually get it. It's pretty good. There was a, there was a Cowboys Packers Thursday night game back when like Bryant Gumbel was calling the games where Aaron Rogers made his first start as a packer. I remember that being like must see TV on a Thursday night against the Cowboys and Rogers played awesome in the game. That was 2007 though. I don't have one of the last 15, 20 years that I can remember that have been anything like we just watched. The only other thing before we take a break, we probably should have led with this or at least mentioned it in the first five minutes. Like that was a little fork in the roadie for Darnold. Oh, dude. Like let's play it out where they just Shahid, it's a block in the back on the punt return TD and they just lose by 14. It's done. And it is just, yeah. We're killing it. What do we do next year with Sam Darnold? What do we do at quarterback? We're hanging fruit quarterback because he's been with the Jets and said he saw ghosts against the Patriots. And he's not a guy who's like loud. He's kind of a soft spoken guy that's not in the media. So he's the kind of quarterback that we would just, as a national media, would just tomorrow on get up on the show in about six hours. We would do three, two hours on Sam Darnold not being able to win a big one. You're on get up in six hours? Yeah. Come on. Are you in studio? Yes. Oh my God. Look at you. It's just courageous by you. What are we talking about? I got to talk about all the Miami Hurricane Pass rushers that are going to be draft. Well, feel free to steal some of my points. I have already been jotting them down. The thing you said though about the fork in the road, the only other quarterback that I could think of was cousins could not win in primetime year after year after year. And then they played the Saints in a wild card round game the COVID year, the year before COVID. So it was 2020 and they went into New Orleans. He hits Kyle Rudolph in overtime for the touchdown. I remember that. And it was like his first big win. And after like five years of cousins just sucking and getting piled on and getting beat up like a pinata, we all had to come in that Monday morning and kind of like table to in our legs. Like, all right, cousins, he won a big one. I don't know if that's tomorrow with Darnold. This isn't a playoff game. And last year he came back against the Bears in a big game. He came back against the Seahawks, which was kind of the reason they signed him. He did it in Seattle. He was fantastic. Like he had big drives, but this one with the division on the line, everything and the way it started. That's a huge game, man. It's good because it's polarizing either way. You can zag the other way and be like, I don't, I still don't feel comfortable with them. What about the first 50 minutes, guys? No doubt. The good news is you're not going to have to do that much tomorrow and get up because there's probably going to be five other people on. It is. You just get to just pick your spots. They're like dropping. Barely available room. Here, let you do the heads like this. All right. Take it a break to help me with ringer 107 in a second. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You could target your buyers by job title industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. That's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B return and ad spend on all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them spend $250 in your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash Simmons bill terms and conditions apply. All right. Ringer 107 with a worn out Peter Schrager who has to hop in a car in five hours and drive to Bristol to do more TV. So this is really quite an honor. We gave Joe House the week off. He was like Sam Darnold. He was seeing ghosts. We just, we didn't have the magic this year. Everyone's getting killed in pics this year, Shraig. Oh gosh, it's so hard. It's my, my pics league that I, my Gus Ramsey, who I think you know, who's run this pics league since the early nineties. This is the worst. We have like 28, 30 teams in the league. We just picked against the spread. It's the worst across the board records we've ever had in the league. And I don't really know the reasons for it, but it's just, every time you think it's going to zig, it's Zags and vice versa and people are struggling. So we, I have a friend, my friend, Jordan, he sends me the standings of his pic leagues like all the time. I'm like, he's like, what do you think? I'm like, you don't want, you don't want anyone. Like just go with your gut. You're winning. Let go. Just like, you don't want anyone. It is so hard, especially with the spread. Like this year has been just, just when you want to crown a team, they end up losing. I mean, you think about that Carolina team and their season. They beat all these world leaders. They beat the Packers and the Rams that got swept by the saints. It's like, you can't, you can't predict. Well, think about, they're also getting way better at how to set the spreads. Like the Rams line today was Seahawks. It ended up Seahawks minus one and a half, which I had. I lost by half point. One by two. Yeah. Could I just bet the money line? I didn't. Okay. Two games. I think we're going to throw out Cowboys, Chargers, Bucks, Panthers, Lion Steelers, Jet Saints, Vikings, Giants, Falcons, Cards and Texans, Raiders. I thought about Brown's home getting 10 and a half in Cleveland against the Bills, but it's just not fun to bet against Josh Allen. No. And that could be 41, nothing. I don't know. Yeah. That's one of those. You feel stupid. Dolphins, Bengals. I don't know what to get with the dolphins. You have a seventh round quarterback who I was told was undraftable in the draft. And he's going for his first career start. So as bad as the Bengals mojo is, I don't know what were such a variable with Quinn Ewers. But here's the thing. Is there like, how is he going to be worse than Tua? I know. Tua has been unplayable for six weeks. And, you know, last week, I just thought they were going to run the ball down Pittsburgh's throat as soon as they fell behind by three, they had to start throwing it with them. We're talking about narrative. And he's just lost it. With Darnold, it's like, until you win those games, like, the narrative with the weather, it's so obvious and it's so stupid, especially hanging fruit. But I'm there on Pittsburgh on Monday night and I'm like, I don't know. He doesn't win in the cold. And everyone's like, yeah, but I'm like, I don't think there's a yeah, but like, he's just terrible in the cold. There was a yeah, but on this podcast last week, house and I were like, let's zag. Everyone thinks Tua can't win in cold weather. We're zagging. And guess what? We zagged off the road. We're staying away from Dolphin, Spangles, even though I just want to point out, it shouldn't have shifted the line that much that Tua was in the quarterback. How much did it? I think it was a plus one and a half to plus four and a half. It felt like that line moved three points. That's fair. And you had to press, you're right. Depressed Joe Burrow. I don't know. Depressed Joe Burrow is the saddest version of any quarterback in football. I hate the press, Joe Burrow. Last week was really sad. Have we ever had a better quarterback seem sadder? So sad. Like even Stafford in Detroit didn't seem this sad. No. And he couldn't have been more depressed. So sad. And like we, we run the sound on these shows. We have to respond to it. And I'm like, guys, it's almost too dark. Like I don't, like everyone becomes a sports therapist on these shows too. It's like everyone has their own like mental health theory. I'm like, guys, let's, let's, I don't, let's, let, let Joe Burrow play football and we'll figure it all out in the seasons over just how dark this is. But the way he played last week, his worst game as a pro after those comments, I mean, that's, that's bleak. It's really, it's one of the first times we've seen a star quarterback where the soundtrack for his passes would be 80s music. That's like the Smiths enjoyed the music that I liked. What's fun. A type like he should be wearing an overcoat during the sidelines. But Donnie don't go soundtrack. Yeah. I liked the dolphins plus four and a half, but there's better games. I think, okay. Five games in a parlay. I'll throw the parlay first. Okay. Bears Packers bears plus one and a half at home against Green Bay who lost Michael Parsons. They're not going to have Watson. Josh Jacob still banged up. Who else has heard on the pack? They might get Watson. Come on. We don't know. It's Saturday. I know it'll be like a, we're not sure. Is like the maybe they'll run and they have one more injured probably not going to get Evan Williams, who's their great safety. He's out. Van Ness has been in and out of the lineup and probably I wouldn't imagine he's out there and then why it's out for the year. So they and then crafts out for the year. Right. That was the other craft. They had what nine elite players and they're down to four. I think I read they had like, you know, 10 guys who were day one starters who were probably not going to be active for this game, which is not great. Not great. I think the bears can run on them. I trust Caleb enough to do the one wow play a quarter where he just gets out of a sack. I don't totally, I'm sure he'll throw them the ball once, but I think it's okay. Your guy, Ben Johnson, big win. Take a bow. You were touting them before the year. That's a big one. But I was thinking doing a little tweak with the bears plus four and a half and then taking the under up to 53 and a half. Because I can't imagine there's a lot of points on a Saturday cold weather Chicago game. What are the odds that's a 30 to 27 game? I don't see it. I would have thought Seattle versus the Rams without the Fonte Adams and the rain and the whipping wind. It would have been a most great game. Yeah, but think about what that took though. That took a punt return TD and it's just weird shit. The backward two point. I will say this about Green Bay. Yeah. Halfly is really good as a defensive coordinator. And like this is one of those. All right. We've owned this team for two decades. They're at home. It's their biggest game. You know, since they went to the playoffs and had to double doink against the Eagles, this play Saturday night is going to be rocking. We've already beaten them once. Can we get enough? Out of guys like JJ and a bar and guys like, you know, Baron Sorrell, whoever they have filling in on defensive line, can we get enough? Can we galvanize? Can we look at each other and say everyone's counted us out? Nobody believes in us. Classic. Nobody believes in us game and then say, we own the team. Their favorite. I know. So I'm saying the defense, the defense, like, can they just do enough? Because, you know, last time they played two weeks ago, zero runs over nine yards. They carried the ball 32 times maybe and they didn't break 100. It was as good as you could have possibly asked from the Packers defense against a runoff offense that ran all over the Philadelphia Eagles the week before. So they've beaten them before. That's what you're going to need. I think the Packers offense, they'll score points. They'll get enough. It's it's their defense can stop the run. And I think they can. I'm a little worried about their offense and the receivers they have because I've had fantasy guys on that team the whole year. And Watson was the first one that seemed like he was getting open in the back twice a game. Kraft was their big third down guy. And now we're, you know, it's, it's like, Hey, Matthew Golden, is this the week? I don't think he's had more than three catches than any week. I like Matthew Golden, but I actually think they're going to need him in the Chicago game. So I don't know. I like a little ugly Saturday night. I like the four and a half. I like the Saturday night 820 game. I like this on the East coast. Like I like it. It's everyone's going to be watching. Brady and Burkhart, it's on Fox. I assumed it was NFL network. It's on Fox. So we're going to get Brady and Burkhart. I feel like we're going to hear Halfley's name said maybe a hundred times. And there's a lot of teams that might be looking for coaches and fan bases who are just going to be sitting on the East coast, whether it be Giants fans, whether it be Titans fans, could be Raiders fans, could be dolphins fans. You go down the list of like who might need a head coach. And if they put on like one of these great defensive performances, we'll be talking about Halfley and like, okay, that's the head coaching guy. And it's because he did it without Micah. There's so many different parts to this game from the Green Bay side of like, we lose. We're probably done in the NFC North. These guys are going to run away with it. And we finally like hand the torch back to these guys. Or if we win, we keep our foot on their throats. And it's another two decades of dominance. One of those type deals. So the Bears win this. Is there any chance they could be the one seed? There is, right? Yes. Yes. Because they're 12 to one win the NFC right now. I don't have in front of me. I mean, they have tough schedule left. They have the Niners on a Sunday night. Niners then. And then they have, I think, Minnesota to end the season. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I like Bears plus four and a half in the end of 53 and a half. I'm just going to mark that down. It's not official yet. We're going to mark that one down. Titans Chiefs. Titans plus three at home against Gardner, Minshew, and a Chiefs team that hasn't played a meaningless game in 10 years, nine years. I don't even know when. It would have been a 10 straight playoffs. So. Yeah. 11 years. So I didn't think the Chiefs were that good to begin with. My Homes was keeping a lot of stuff together. And now he's out. And one of the things is the Titans running game has really gotten going the last couple weeks. I have. I know this line dropped from four to three. I don't know. It's Titans plus three. I don't know. It's tough for me to think that the Titans are going to hang with the Chiefs. I don't care who's that quarter. Really Titans. I didn't mark down. I wanted to talk it out. What are the Chiefs playing for right now? What do they care? You're right. You're right. I'm just, I'm curious. Like you're wired in with that team. Why are they going to give a shit about a game in Tennessee after the season? Just a better, just a objectively better football players on the field at just about every position, you know, even without my Homes and without whoever. And it's like, if you have any pride, do you lose to the Tennessee Titans? I don't know. I know my Homes isn't there, but these are professionals. I have games I like more. I just wanted to talk to that. I wanted to get your thoughts on Chris Russo's comments. What did he say? Kelsey didn't talk to the media after the game. Russo went nuts on first take. Said he's saving it for his podcast. There's no sports fan actually listens to that podcast. He's taken on a Travis Kelsey audience. It's a pretty big audience. I'm sitting there like, as they sit there telling their reporters, he doesn't want to talk to him. So he can save it for new heights. That's exactly what he said verbatim. How much fun you get to do a TV with him? I love that. I only do first take on, on Wednesdays and I'm in studio with Chris Russo. It's like, it's a dream. That's great. It's a dream. I thought it was interesting. I feel like there's a couple of sacred cows in media and he's saying it. Oni SPN where Jason Kelsey is employed. He's just like, no one listens to that podcast. I'm just like, oh, Simmons is going to probably has thoughts on this. Oh, that's good. Well, he's, he's wrong on that, but I appreciate the spirit. Okay. Next game. So we'll probably not do in the Titans plus three. I really do it. I wish it was plus four and a half. Colts plus five and a half. If you love the Mike McCoy Titan so much, just go with it. No, I don't love them. I don't think they're very good. I just don't know. It's Gardner Minshew. We saw him play one series. He's maybe through the ball at the end of the team. I mean, he's bad. We've seen him fail on multiple teams. So that's kind of the great equalizer. He was once your, your, your white whale. He was once. It was fine. It seemed like he had a chance to have something. For a while. I did. The Raiders kind of ended it. Colts plus five and a half at home against the 49ers. I watched every play of this game last week. Colts. Colts are. Yeah. Me too. Of the Colts Seahawks. Just a really nice, really well paced, well coached, spirited effort by Colts team that really wanted it. By the way, they really need this game. Yes. In the Niners defense, some of the stats of it, like the Titans kind of. He's mentioned it. Titans went all over it. We're all over it. Up and down the field. Yeah. So I, I just think that line's too high. Two variables here. So I talked to Akeman today. I said, give me just a thought, you know, at the end of your career, he was 34 years old. You get beat up. You get hit a couple of times. What's it like the next couple of days? He's like, you know, you don't feel great until Tuesday, maybe Wednesday. You add 10 years to that. Five years removed from the game. We have no idea because it's Thursday. We're doing it like. Is rivers okay? Like the physical toll. And I know he didn't get the crap beat out of him. Like people thought he was. He took two good hits. He took two hits, but the, the 27 passes, the snaps, everything. So I know they have a long week. It's Monday night. That place is going to be rocking. It will be because they, they are, they, they know it's the season and it's also a home Monday night game. Indianapolis, great crowd. Is that enough? Or is this like, he gave it all he had and that one thing. That's the Disney movie. They lose. He wasn't even that good though. I mean, he was fine. But in a Disney movie, that's how he would have played it. Make two big passes, get them into field goal range. They kick the field goal and then they lose on a heartbreaking field goal. And it's like, he goes back to his family and it's like, I gave it all I had. It was great. Now he's got to do it for three more games. It's like 28 year old kid crying in the stands. Buckner, I thought had a huge impact on Sunday and just there, their front seven just seemed pretty feisty. They're low on cornerbacks, but against this Niners team that, I mean, this IU situation is bizarre. Pearsall's not playing. I think it's too many points. I'm going to mark down. I like the Colts in this game. Funner root for two. And FYI, kind of a kitchen sink game for them. Yeah, no. And we talked about it over text and then you said you had a separate text chain with Henshin the boys about whether or not they should have bet against the Colts because their schedule was so difficult after the sauce trade. I mean, they haven't won a game since the injury. And then now it's like, if they don't win this one, it's pretty much done. Home Jacksville at Houston last two. I don't think there's a path for the playoffs for them if they lose this. So I have them marked down. Washington's plus seven at home against the Eagles. And I feel like we have this game every year and every year Washington, Wednesday, comes close and the Eagles are terrible in this game. And Marriota, fine. He's been okay. They've got most of their guys back. They hate the Eagles. These teams don't like each other. And I don't trust the Eagles at all. And it's not like the Eagles are healthy. Like a bunch of their guys are still out. Lane Johnson's probably not going to play. Yeah. And is Dickerson playing or not? I don't know about Dickerson. Jaylen Carter's not going to play. Yeah. I actually, I'd be pretty confident. I mean, I haven't seen the report. It might be already out, but I think Lane Johnson's out. And I don't know. I feel like, did you watch Washington Giants at all? Or did that not make the most of it? I did not. I missed that game. It's one of the worst football games you'll ever watch. Yeah. It was bad. Washington was awful too. I mean, they won, but they had won couple of nice plays to McClauren Deep and Wild Bill had a touchdown. But like it's that team they're done too. So I thought last week, Eagles Raiders, and here's how I saw it happening. I'm like, Eagles fans woke up to snow. It was kind of surprising Sunday. They had to dig out their cars, annoying, get to the stadium, one o'clock start, first play from scrimmage. Seh Kwan goes one yard. And I swear on the broadcast, you can hear like a smattering of booze. And then they went on to have their best game in like two years and give up 75 yards. But if they had not performed that way, I'd be doing like Def Con five, the whole thing with the Eagles. Yeah. But who were they playing though? I know. But I think just getting that out and like doing that and dominating 31 to nothing and having the defense shut them down, having the offense, everyone get their touches, everyone do everything. I almost feel like that game was important. They've already been through the record. Like, and now, okay, let's go kick the shit out of Washington also. Okay. I thought it was important. I'm not going to mark it down. I can't believe I have to pick against the Pats, but we're in that. We're under 500 and ringer 107. And you got to do what you got to do. The Ravens are minus two and a half was the line that locked for this game against the Pats. I just think this is a bad spot for the Pats. And the weirdest thing about this game, they don't 100% need it. They could still win the division just by winning the last two. And this game, the Ravens, every game now is like their seasons on the line. They're the healthiest they've been in a while. Pats still don't have Milton Williams. They still don't have Will Campbell. The defensive stats for them the last four weeks, especially some of the advanced stuff, is really, really rough. Their ability to move the ball when they really need to, like Diggs has disappeared the last few weeks. And they've gotten some home run plays from Henderson and they're still having trouble putting games away. They only ran the ball three times in the second half. Yeah. So this line being under three, I just think is wrong with the... If it was January and I had my team back, I'm in. If I had Will Campbell and Milton Williams for this game, I'm in. But I think this is a game where you're going to feel that a little bit. Patriots fan... There's a weird Patriots app Baltimore history too. I was going to say this. I was just going to say this to you. Patriots fan scale, that entire run, Baltimore was the thorn in the side. I remember I would say that it was Indianapolis, but truly it was Baltimore. Even the 07 game, we shouldn't have won that Monday night game. That was like a fucking miracle. And we probably would have been better off losing that game. Rex Ryan, the defensive coordinator, all that. But I think they can run the ball in the paths in this game without Milton Williams, because you've been able to see these teams just go right up the middle. And that's what the... Yeah. And then Derek Henry shows up and you're like, oh, shit. Derek Henry. Like they have Derek Henry. Look, they flexed this game to Sunday night. Ravens have lost some terrible games recently at home. That. I mean, that Thanksgiving night game to the Bengals is... I have family all Baltimore people. I mean, it was a ziff. All right, pack it up. Season's done. That's what we're doing. So now you get another bite at it. I thought last week was huge, shutting out the Bengals, getting the kind of vibe back. Lamar looked healthy. He looked good. I would pick the Ravens here. And I think your point is wise in that it matters a lot for Baltimore, obviously. They only get in if Pittsburgh and them figure their stuff out. Patriots, it's not do or die. Of course, it's a nice to have, but you don't need this to make the playoffs. You certainly don't need this for the AFC East title. I've had a pretty good feel for them this year. Like even when they were at Buffalo, I thought the line was too high. I really thought they had a chance to be in that game. Last week, I was really nervous about the game with the injuries. Didn't want to pick against the Pats, but now we have no choice because we're way under 500. Could we do a Ravens Patriots all time? I mean, cause we can go through it. There was the Billy Cundiff game where Lee Evans drops the pass. You guys end up going to the Super Bowl the following year. You're up early. They come all the way back, beat you in Foxboro. And then there was that same season, a Sunday night game early on, where the Ravens beat the Patriots like week three in Baltimore. And then there's the Ray Rice game in the playoffs, obviously, 20, whatever that was. Thanks for bringing all these up. But you guys have also gotten their number a bunch of times too. Well, the 07 game was legendary for just pulling that out of the ass. My favorite Pats win, non-Super Bowl, I think of the entire 2010s, other than the Chiefs game. The double pass? Other than the D4 game was that Ravens game. Cause I really do think the Ravens were better that year. And the Pats just outwitted them and... Ravens were up early in that game. What, 14-nothing? 14, twice. And the Pats just, they just kind of figured out how to fuck them over. And they, remember they ran the weird formation and the weird formations. The weird formation is mined on the sidelines. And then the next play you get Amandola and Edelman. Unbelievable crowd for that game. They're singing the outfield before minutes left. Were you in the building that day? I was in the press. No, I was watching home. It was a great one though. I loved that game. And I feel like they haven't had a great match up in years. It's kind of cool. Ravens, Patriots week 16 on a Saturday, Sunday night or Saturday, whatever it is. Yes, Sunday night. I'm excited. Lamar has been, there were signs of life last week. Maybe this could be a Lamar versus May. We'll see. And the other problem with them is the tight ends, which have been an issue for the Pats all year. And this is one of the best tight end teams. Yeah. I don't like the matchup. Broncos minus three in Denver against the Jaguars. This to me is another overvalued game. That the Jags have padded the numbers against some bad teams. I think we both believe in this Broncos team. And I just, I'm going to go against Trevor Lawrence until he wins a game like this. And if he wins this one hats off with this is now a new Trevor Lawrence. I'll admit it. I'll admit defeat, but I don't see it. I just, I'm waiting for him to come out. The real Trevor Lawrence. Two weeks ago when they beat the Colts, you had an awesome, you picked up on something that I did not pick up on. And you were, I guess, with Sal. So it was in the moment Sunday night, you're like, did you hear Trevor's press conference afterwards? And he did the whole thing about how the national media wants to talk about other teams. Oh, that nobody believes in us. They don't talk, even in our division, you know, we're winning all these games. They don't talk about, and I'm like, Oh, Bill's right. And then I talked to folks in Jacksonville and it's not just Trevor Lawrence. It is their identity of we're not going to get respect until we take respect. And the whole thing. And this week, Sean Payton, innocuous comment says, you know, they're doing a lot of good things. Well, you know, and there, I know no one sees them. They're a small market team and like Jackson, like that's all they needed. Are you going jacks plus three? I'm not, I'm not. But I think, you know, I think I've said this before on your pod. Liam's, you know, 38 years old, Grant, you didn't ski the offensive coordinators, 29 years old. Anthony Campanelli is like this amazing Jersey guy, defensive coordinator, fired up dude 40 years old. The GM is 34. Like they're just a bunch of young, like super amped up, high energy guys. And this quarterback finally feeling the love, finally feeling confident. And that quote that you provided me, which I didn't even hear because I wasn't listening to Jaguars press conferences, I was like, Oh shit, Trevor Lawrence is a little bit of some shit to him. Like, and it was nice to hear. And then last week against the Jets, I know it's the Jets, 350 yards, five touchdowns, perfect QB rating. And like afterwards just, I mean, they have been feeling themselves. So I'm curious to see how they show up to a team that hasn't lost the game at home in two years in the Broncos and everyone's already crowning. Like what are the Jaguars got? This is a good one. And a team that can lock down the one seed basically. Yes. One thing I want to see with the Jets and the, one of the reasons I like the Broncos is the Broncos and the Texans are the two AFC teams that if you're a receiver or running back, coming out of the backfield, your eyes are in the back of your head. No doubt. Like think about what the Texans did to the Chiefs and that. They basically changed the course of the Chief season with all the hits they laid on them. And same thing last week with the Chiefs too, where they just got that shit kicked out of them. I want to see how the Jags respond to that. If the Broncos are like, because they can do it. They can turn it on. They can pound. They can, and I don't know if the Jags are like just a fun, we'll put up points, but if it's going to get really physical, what do you got? And then I don't know if I trust Laurence. So we'll see. Maybe he'll, maybe he'll stick it to me. You said in Denver are cool in that the NFL is so, it's gone so favoring the offense and the way the rules are and the way that, you know, it's just built the way the coaches coach all the, and then you've got Denver and Houston, two teams that are very clearly defense first offense second. And in this weird topsy-turvy year where every week another team is the number one team on someone's power rankings, kind of defensive team in 2025, when a Super Bowl. And I know you could say, well, Bo Nix and Cortland Sutton are going, Sean Payton might be an offensive coach. That is a defensive first team. And Houston is like way defense, little bit of offense. Those two teams are fascinating as we get to the playoffs and what they can do over the final few weeks. So you don't like Titans plus three and you don't like Washington plus seven. No. And you didn't like Browns plus 10 and a half. And we don't want to bet on Quinn Ewers. Quinn Ewers. Does that mean we're left with Bucks minus three Panthers taking Carolina plus three coming off a loss to Tyler Shuck. They're taking the Bucks with all their receivers back. I think Bucks. I think Bucks. The Bucks with the chemistry questions. With Mike Evans. After blowing a terrible game. The scariest in the tunnel. Blowing a terrible game and the defenders yelling at each other. I said it last week, worst loss all season was that game. The Falcons had 19 penalties against them. And they lost that game at home with an eliminated Falcons team. And my favorite, like Drake London, not even on the field, Kyle Pitts goes for a billion yards. Like terrible loss. So bounce back. I got to think they got to, they have to, they're, they should. All right. So that's your pick. That's what you're contributing. With not great conviction. Well, that doesn't make me feel good. Tampa minus three. Sure. I don't think the Panthers are good. I'm just going to throw that out there too. It was shocking to watch the Saints just go up and down the field on them. You were talking to McShay about it. I mean, Tyler Shuck. There's a lot to like about that guy. And he, he was, he outplayed Bryce Young when it mattered. All right. So we're going excellence for ringer 107 brought to you with the lines from Fandall Sportsbook. As always, we're going to do a old man, Phillip Rivers, plus five and a half with the Colts against the Niners at home in a must win game. Great crowd. I think that's a three point game when we're the other, sadly, the Ravens minus two and a half against the Pats. It's fine. Pats can lose this game. So when you're okay with it, I'm not going to sweat it out. I don't like the matchup. I don't like the injuries on the Pats side. And I don't like the week that this game is happening. Broncos minus three against the Jaguars. We're acknowledging the Jaguars. Nobody believes in us, but I think a lot of people will be on the Jags this week. And you could argue that line should be a little higher considering the Broncos have them lost in three months. Bucks minus three against the Panthers. It's more a pick against Carolina. And then last but not least, little Parley Saturday night, Bears plus four and a half with the under 53 and a half. Bill, I love those picks. Those, those, I think we ended in a good place. You talked me out of two possible stinkers. I think we're great. I know if House would have done that. I think House would have, would just walk me in and traffic. Kind of want house on this. I miss house. It's great. I know what house is this sleep. There's no great house is lying like this, storing right now in this whole fourth quarter. That was today's ringer 107. It's brought to you by Fandle. Don't forget, odds are subject to change. That's it. Hey, good luck on get up. Try out the Peter, Peter's pans segment that I gave you. They love puns. Peter's pans where you pan three things. I like that idea. Or Peter's principles. St. Peter's. So your four, your four prayers for the week. I like that one. What's bringing in St. Peter. That's good. St. Peter. I'm trying to think what I can't sneaky Pete. Sneaky Pete. How about for Pete's sake? For Pete's sake. And the graphic is just you like this. Can't wait. I can't wait to watch you tomorrow. Six hours. Like grievances. Like I can't stand officials. Like is that what it is for Pete's sake? It's like your version of your, you've been must. Yes. Why are you punting on fourth and one for Pete's sake? Why are you wearing a backwards visor? Yes. All that stuff. This guy gets cleaned out by the wide receiver who goes out of bounds and takes out his legs. Why aren't you looking at the field for Pete's sake? Why aren't we talking about Danny Wolf and the Nets? We're doing a lot of visuals here. Pitch it. Pitch it tomorrow. All right. Peter Stragger, thanks for staying up with us. Great to see you as always. You're the best, Bill. Thank you. Hey, it's week 16 and Fandall wants me to make some NFL predictions as we enter a crucial week of football. Ring of Runaway 7, just not enough here. Here are three week 16 predictions using Fandall's odds. Does Miles Garrett get 1.5 sacks on Sunday and set the single season sack record against Josh Allen? The market's at plus 180 for him to do it. I would vote no on that one. I think he gets it a week later. The AFC number one seed battle, which of these QBs is able to throw for two plus TDs? Bownecks minus 132 or Trevor Lawrence plus 128. I'm going Bownecks minus 132. Longest rush in the Sunday night game, Derek Henry over under 19 and a half or Trivian Henderson. 14 and a half, Henderson. Will Rivers go over under his passing propo 150.5 against the Niners? I am going under for Old Man Phil Rivers. You can bet all these. Our ring of Runaway 7 picks and so much more on Fandall. Play your game. Immerse yourself in herbal essences new Moroccan argan oil elixir infused with pure argan oil. Just one drop. Delivers up to 100 hours of hair nourishment with the indulgent scent of a Moroccan garden. Herbal essences new Moroccan argan oil elixir, spa quality hair repair without the price tag. Try it now. Cephas repair to smoothness nourishment with regimen use versus non conditioning shampoo. All right, we are back with a special part of today's episode. It's brought to you by Minkalob Ultra. We love Minkalob Ultra right here as the official beer partner of the NBA. They know the best moments on or off the court are sort of cold. So let's crack open a six pack because we're going to dig into the most buzz worthy NBA stuff that is happening right now and we'll do our superior play of the day as well. All right, I'm going to start here. So I don't want to start grim here on the Minkalob Ultra six pack, but OKC killed the Quippers tonight. OKC is the defending champs. They're 25 and two. The Clippers are now six and 21. They're tied for third worse. They have to give OKC their first round pick in 26 and they have to do a first round pick swap for them in 27. And as you know, I'm the trade machine Picasso. And I talked about this a little bit with Zach on Tuesday. What do you do if you're the Clippers? It's checkmated me. It's like in Goodwill Hunt. I was watching Goodwill Hunt with my son a couple of days ago. And when nobody can do the formula problem that he has, he leaves out in the hallway and then Will Hunting does and he solves it. And he's asking the people in the class, did you guys figure this out? Did you guys solve this? And people are like, no way. That wasn't me. I think the Clippers thing is like that thing. We don't have Will Hunting to come in and save this. Their only trade asset really is Zubats. And what are you getting for Zubats ultimately? And by the way, if you're trading him, your defense is going to be worse. Zach, I tried to test drive some hardened trades with him the other day. And he was just poo pooing all of them. I don't think anyone wants Kauai at 50 million a year when they know he's going to play. And I mentioned this to Max Kellebren the other day, especially when you're throwing the Chris Paul embarrassment, Ramona Shelbert wrote a piece about that. Every time you think this Clippers situation can't get worse, it feels like it's gotten worse. And they're so uninspiring. They're playing the Lakers at home on Saturday night. It's going to be like three-fourths Laker fans in the Intuit Dome. I think at some point the punishment is going to come down maybe before I'll start a weekend. That's, I think there's whispers about that. We'll see. We'll see if they actually do it. I just don't know what you do. And it's a pretty rare situation. Brooklyn was in this in the mid-2010s where the Celtics had their picks. And at some point they made a pretty creative D'Angelo Russell trade to get a pick. And I don't know if the Clippers are wired like that. I think they seem to blindly think this is going to turn around. And yet they won't fire the coach. They gave Lawrence Frank, it seems like they gave him an extension, which feels like it's a little bit of a, we have this thing happening and here's an extension. I don't know. Suspicious extension for considering that the Norm Powell trade was probably the worst trade since the Luca trade. It's just, I don't know how you fix this. I just don't. So that would be my first one in the six pack and it's depressing. I'm out of answers. I don't know how you fix the Clippers. Gahau asked me, my producer before is like, I hope the Clippers, I hope you have a fix. I don't. And if somebody has a fix out there, God bless you. But I think it has to be using Zubots and attaching him to Harden and seeing what you can get. Like could Minnesota go in a tailspin and then all of a sudden be thinking about Gobert and Randall for Harden and Zubots. They're not doing that now, but maybe in two weeks that they lost some games, they start thinking about it. I think that's the only hope is that other teams get more desperate and start looking at your assets. But yikes. All right. Second thing on the six pack, the Christmas games. So the last four, there's five games. I'm going to skip the first one for a second. The last four are really cool. Spurs Thunder, which I think is the game I want to see more than any other game at all times. Dallas, Golden State. Sure. Golden State, what's going on with them? There are two games under 500 they lost tonight. And I don't know what the fix is with them either, but they're playing Dallas flag. They're running crunch time plays for him. Davis has rejuvenated him. I still think Dallas is going to be heard from as a play-in team, especially if Kyrie comes back. So that's the third game. Houston Lakers, that's a great game. And then Minnesota Denver, we get the Joker as the last one. So that's a fun Christmas. All the NFL games that looked like they're all going to suck. But then you have the first game and it's Cleveland, New York. And if you think your family is dysfunctional, let me bring over the Cavs. I have some dysfunction at your Christmas table with the Cleveland Cavaliers who sit solemnly and solemnly on their bench as they're down 10 wondering what happened. And there's, I went over on them on 56 and a half. That leads me to my third six pack because it's possible the Cavs could ruin Christmas or make a trade before then. Did the Pacers break the Cavs? The Cavs were awesome last year. I would, they win like 64 games, 63 games, something like that. They had a long win streak. They figured out the Garland Mitchell thing. Moby took a step up. They seemed happy. Kenny Atkinson was getting coached in the year buzz. It seems like it was a million years ago. And then they play the Pacers. Garland's hurt. Moby misses a game. The Pacers hit a couple of ridiculous shots. And by the end of the series, you're like, yeah, the Pacers are for whatever reason better. And the Cleveland Cavaliers have not recovered since. Here's another team that it's really hard to fix. They're 22 million over the second apron. And I bring this up because now that the season is going on, I was sick about this last night. I had them on a smaller TV with no sound. I'm watching the bigger TV, but I have the Cavs game going. And they just are losing double figures and they're cutting the bench. Max Drews is sitting there with his new long hair. He's just saw him, they sitting next to a couple of teammates. Then it goes to Mitchell. He looks just bummed out. The guys on the court look bummed out. And you're like, whoa, what do we do with this? Because this team can't trade. First of all, you're way over the second apron. You can only do one-for-one trades. You can only take back less money than you can send out. The second apron. So I did the math. I hope this is right. I found this on the internets. It will cost them 163 million in second apron taxes if they just keep the number of the roster the way it is. So that would mean it would be a $400 million season for them to potentially be like a seven seat and then lose at round one. They have a couple outs. They can wave Wade and Porter before January 7th, saves them about 3 million. Only 19 million to go. The cap rules are so dumb that Charlotte is 21 million under the cap. Jared Allen makes $20 million. And yet the rules say they couldn't just trade Jared Allen to Charlotte for nothing. That is somehow legal with the cap. Here's who they could trade up to. The Boston Celtics, who have a $22 million trade exception, who are the only team who could trade for Jared Allen and take off the second apron off Cleveland Sands. But guess what? They're not going to do that because right now they're $7.8 million under the second apron. And if they just did that trade, they'd then have to figure out how to get rid of 11.3 million, which would be Simons. They'd have to take less money back. Good luck. I can't figure out where to move Jared Allen. They could do some whittle down trades. Like they could trade Streus to Utah for Nyang, send them some picks and save $8 million. Still doesn't get them close to getting rid of 22. They could trade Lonzo and Atlanta's trade exception. They could trade Streus back to Miami. They have a big trade exception. That stuff that usually doesn't happen during the season, teams aren't anxious to help out other teams for role players. They could trade Garland, but the one-for-one rules that they're handicapped with, they're really screwed. Like here's a trade they could do. They could trade Garland to Washington for Chris Middleton's contract and picks, which Washington might think about. But that would only save them $6.2 million. They'd still be way under the apron. If Boston took Allen, which I don't think they will, even with Tatum coming back, even with them having the expectations that they might actually be pretty good, I don't think they're going back over the second apron. If they could get under the second apron somehow, they could then do three-for-threes, two-for-twos. They could go after anybody. They could go after LeBron for God's sakes. But right now, they can't do that. And that leads to the other option there, which is the nuclear option, which would be to trade down a Mitchell. Even in that case, it's really hard because they would have to get under the second apron before it made sense to get a bunch of players back that teams would have to trade to get down of a Mitchell. So if I were the Cavs, I would have a team meeting and say, look, you guys seem really unhappy. I don't know what's happened to us this year, but we can't make any trades. So this is our team. So get your shit together. Should we hire a team therapist? Let's do it. Should we all get drunk together? Should we watch the Shawshank Redemption and see if hope is a good thing for us? We're not making trades. This is our team. We're sorry. We're spending a lot of money on it. Can you guys play better? That's probably the answer. Anyway, get ready to spend Christmas morning with them. Fourth thing on the six pack, the Shangoon crunch time stuff is pretty interesting in Houston. And they lost a game tonight in OT against New Orleans that I was watching on a TV with no sound as I watched the Rams game. I was watching a lot of basketballs that I was watching the Rams game. I'm a multitasker. I know I know I'm getting older. Still throwing my fastball, still watching three games at once. Still got it. They go to Shangoon a lot at the end of these games. To the point that I'm starting to watch the Durant body language a little bit where he's like, I'm Kevin Durant. What are we doing? And Shangoon's been really good. And in Denver the other night, which was a great game, he won the game for them and made a couple of big plays down the stretch. But it feels like they've tilted a little too far towards Shangoon. Not far enough toward the, I mean, Thompson could beat anybody off the dribble. And oh, by the way, we have Kevin Durant, who's probably going to score 35,000 points in his career, maybe more. So I would like to see them fix the calibration on that versus what I feel like is starting to happen where it's like, this is now Shangoon's situation at the end of the games. I think it's really hard to run all your stuff through a center. Now, the overtime game tonight came down to Reed Shepard missed a couple wide open threes that would have sent in the second OT. But I mentioned this because I'm watching these Rockets games going, I can't believe they're not giving it to KD more. And I think what's getting lost in this KD season, and just in this season in general, maybe we just take older guys for granted, but Katie's having one of the better old guy seasons of all time. And so is Steph Curry. I went and looked it up. So what's the definition of an old guy? To me, it's like when I was growing up, John Havlachek was playing when he was like 37, 38, he seemed really, really old. And then Karim in the 1985 finals, when they beat the Celtics games that I went to, sadly. Karim was all these by huge bald spot and back was that I don't think he had shaved this head yet. Maybe he had at that point. But regardless, he was just like old guy Karim. And then he just annihilated Robert Parrish in the finals. And it was notable because he had won the finals MVP in 1971 with the Bucks. And then he won it again in 1985 with the Lakers. It was like, oh my God, 14 year span between finals, MVP's. This is amazing. He's so old. Well, Curry's 37, averaging 29.6 a game before tonight. And KD is 37, averaging 24.8. And I mentioned this because only a handful of the guys that have ever been 37 years old are there and average 20 points a game. LeBron, multiple times, Steph Curry, Durant, Karim, Carmelone, Michael Jordan on the Wizards. That's the entire list. And with Durant, I don't think anybody feels like he's old. You would never say he's getting up there. He's getting old. Curry's starting to seem a little creaky. Not that he's not still great, but he's wearing it, especially at the end of these games. They're like, man, Steph seems exhausted. I don't know if Steph can do this for six months. Durant just seems exactly the same. And this year, 24.8. And this year, 24.8, five rebounds a game. A couple other old guys that still kept it Nash on the 2012 Suns was still 11 assists a game. Chris Paul in the 23 Suns, he was fine 14 and 9. And then Stockton did it for a long time, 13 and 8. But I was thinking about my Mount Rushmore for, or my starting five for old guys. LeBron obviously, Karim. I think Steph, KD or Karim alone. I've always tried during my career as a voice and a writer and a podcaster to discount Karim alone anytime I could, including creating the 42 club. That was the way to get him out of the most. 42 club points assists rebounds in the playoffs, 12 games or more. I made it 42 because it was the way to cut out Karim alone the most times. So obviously I'm going to cut him out here. And then let's go. Go John Stockton, just so we have a point card. So Stockton, LeBron, now Curry's my point card. So I really have to put Karim alone in there. He's pretty good in those Utah seasons. I hate it. Fine. Karim alone. LeBron, Steph Curry, Karim alone, Kevin Durant, Karim Adujabar. We'll go big lineup. But I think that would be my old guy starting five. Kevin Durant, secretly old, 2007 draft. It's a million years ago. Seattle had a team in 2007. Last, oh fifth one for the six pack. Still doing this, Nicola Boutre. What's the best location for the NBA Cup semifinals and finals? Because I don't think anybody enjoys Vegas. I didn't want to go. I could have gone on Saturday night. I could have gone on Tuesday. I'm kind of over Vegas. When they changed the Blackjack to six to five, I took it as a personal front. On top of it, it's just, I don't know. Maybe I've just gone there too many times. But the thought of just coming in to watch some basketball with some half fast crowds, I couldn't get behind. But then the games turned out really good. And I was actually mad that I didn't go to the San Antonio OKC game. The finals were great. But I was thinking like, as a lot of people, where what would be a better location? Because I think we're good with Vegas. We go there for Summer League. We don't need to go there for the NBA Cup too. Get Vegas to fuck out. You need it to be a place that you know you can get the arena. People are talking about college stuff. So like you do the semis at Duke, and you do the finals in UNC. I'm not against that for one year. Indiana University gets the semis. The Pacers stadium gets the finals. That would be fun. The only problem is that the Pacers got into the finals. So I'm confident of that. You can do Barclay, semis, MSG finals. Fine. Still an advantage for the Nets. Won't be an advantage for the Nets because it's still never been the NBA Cup. The two I settled on. I like the idea of a Kentucky Louisville combo. And not just because it would be great for J. Kyle Mann. Kentucky for the semis, and then Louisville for the finals. Or vice versa. Louisville for the semis. Kentucky for the finals. Kentucky because of the Derby kind of built. For in either venue to accommodate big crowds. So I thought that was fun. But here's where I've landed. And I think this is a really good idea. And as usually, I'll be the only one who sticks up for the good people of Seattle. Where I have to do a live rewatchables at some point this spring because I love Seattle or a live basketball podcast or something because those guys had their team taken away in it and I'm still pissed about it. And now that team is probably going to be the best team of the 21st century. Fuck. Seattle semifinals, Vancouver finals. We go Pacific Northwest in two cities where they took teams away from. And I think that's the answer. Everybody loves going to Seattle. Everyone loves going to Vancouver. If you talk to anybody who covered the league in the 90s or the early 2000s, they always said the best part, any road trip they had when they were covering a team was the Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, Pacific Northwest was always their favorite. So let's bring it back. Seattle and Vancouver. I vote for that next year. Get up to the semis in Vancouver and the finals in Seattle or vice versa. I don't really care. I like paying homage to two cities that lost their teams for no reason in the fan base. Vancouver just got fucked from the get go with everybody running those teams. And Seattle got run over by the OKC owners and David Stern and Howard Schultz who owned Starbucks and has a conglion dollars and was a complete coward and sold the team to people from OKC who were going to move it. And he probably knew it and didn't care. So let's at least give them the NBA Cup. That's my fifth thing. Last but not least, two teams that I think are looking pretty good that I would just watch from a league past standpoint going forward. The Hornets, Millersback, Lamello played tonight. I shouldn't be excited when Lamello plays, but that's where we're at with Lamello. But they put up 66 points in 17 minutes against Atlanta, held on late for a win. Really fun style. They're one big guy away. They need like a rebounder or somebody who can have their hands up. I really wish they could just trade for Jared Allen. I wish the CBA was better, but they have all their own first. They have a 2027 Dallas first, top two protected. And they have a Miami first that becomes unprotected. At some point, they're in the decade because of the Terry Rozier trade, which the league refuses to acknowledge for shady. So good coach, Charles Lee, good new owners, respected front office all of a sudden. And I just like the spot they're in. And I love watching them. The other team, the New Orleans Pelicans, all of a sudden, shit's going down. They beat Houston tonight, which is just incredible. Houston's good. Queen, Murphy, Herb Jones, pools coming off the bench now. Like all of a sudden they have what looks to be an NBA team. And I mentioned this because if I was Atlanta, they have the New Orleans pick, the pick that we all fit. The New Orleans has the worst record in the West, 6 and 22. And one of the top five worst records. I don't think it's going to stay that way. Now that they have everybody back, whether Zion plays or not, I think there was a John Ewing always post the spreads for different things. I like following him for gambling. And he had the NBA records against the spread. And New Orleans had, I think the best record against the spread are one of the best records. So they're constantly covering, they're losing close games, and they're about to have a breakthrough. And if I was Atlanta, I would trade that pick right now. Atlanta has the Porzingis expiring. They have a huge trade exception. They have a good team. They've got to figure out the trade young thing, but they probably need one more wing shooter. This is their chance to get somebody really good. I think they should go after Yanis. I've been saying that from day one, but I would put that New Orleans pick on the table because two months from now, I really genuinely think New Orleans will not be one of the five worst teams in the league. They have too much talent. Unless they go the other way and they trade trade Murphy and they start getting rid of guys, but I don't know if they will. And I will say that Pelicans crowd tonight, a great, I was watching without sound, but everybody was standing and going nuts the whole game. So keep fighting for your team because I think you're going to have to. Anyway, Atlanta, listen to me, trade the pick. That's the last thing on the six pack. If you want even more, you can grab yourself a pack of Michelobaltra right here. Ultra getting you closer to the action with a chance to win exclusive prizes, including courtside tickets and more. Michelobaltra, Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michillobaltra.com slash courtside. Michelobaltra courtside 2526. No purchase necessary. Open to us residents 21 plus begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 30th, 2026, multiple entry periods. See official rules at michillobaltra.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. That's it for the podcast today. Thanks to Gahoun and Eduardo as well. Thanks to Peter Schrager for staying up late. Don't forget about the new music box, about the counting crows. It's great. Go check it out on HBO Max. Don't forget we did two rewatchables this week. We did the short thing on Wednesday, and we did high fidelity on Monday, if you want to stop the list too, over the weekend. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday night. Obviously going to be live with Sal coming off Raven's Patriot. See you then. Music Must be 21 plus and president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas start casino, or 18 plus and president DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem called 100 gambler visit rg-help.com. Call 888-797-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut, or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org. Or call 800-327-5050 for 24 seven support mass. Two sets or call 877-8 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.