EP 64: Recovery In Motion: From Addiction To A Path Of Peace

Disclaimer. At Two Addicts in the Moron, we discuss personal stories of addiction with the intention of being educational, relatable, and inspirational. The views and experiences shared are those of individuals involved are not meant to glorify or condone any illegal or harmful behavior. This content is for educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, we strongly encourage you seek help from a qualified professional or support service. All right. We're back, everybody. Yes, sir. We are back to another episode of Two Addicts in the Moron. Thank you so much for joining us today. Trying to do my Mr. Rogers thing. You know. Talk to Mr. Rogers. Yeah. Really? I don't even know about that. Won't you be my neighbor? You know him. You know Mr. Rogers. He's pivotal. No, dude. He did like a show, like a get your fucking life together and watch Mr. Rogers, dude. You weren't so much. You know it. You know it from childhood. There's no way you don't. It was like, it was like. It's like seminal to development. Sesame Street. Mr. Rogers. He was on Sesame Street. No, no, no. Oh, yeah. Tom Hanks played him in a movie recently. Really not a big Tom Hanks. Shut up, dude. Like I'm going to sit you down and watch every Tom Hanks movie. And then we're saying he's not a good actor. I just not a big fan. And then we're going to binge watch Mr. Rogers. Mr. Rogers. You'll love Mr. Rogers. Mr. Rogers is cool, dude. Don't let the Tom Hanks heart fool you. He's not that funny. No, no, no. He's just like so kind. Yeah. He's just a nice dude. Is he still alive? No. Oh, sorry. He's he's been dead for a while. Sorry, Mr. Rogers. Anyway, we're back to another episode of Two Addicts and a Moron. And we have a very special guest in the house. Ladies and gentlemen, Miss Devon. Everybody. Yay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for coming. Yeah. And so I know you were a little nervous. I'm a little nervous now. Yeah. This is your first podcast you're ever doing, right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming in and you'll forget all of these lights and cameras and microphones are here in just a moment. Okay. I promise you. So tell us a little bit about yourself. What was you struggled in addiction? Yes, totally. And how long did you do that for? Um, I mean, do you want me to just like start from the beginning? No, so let's start with this. Let's start with this. Okay. What? What was your DOC? My drag of choice was alcohol, but I've done like every drug. I feel like most people who struggle in addiction, they always set this limit for themselves or like this is the only place I'm going to. And then the limit always gets pushed back further and further. And that's kind of like the essence of the problem. Well, like I mean, to be told that question is it gets broadened because a lot of people are like, well, what point in my life and what point in my addiction? Cause it was so many different things, right? It would go, they would go through waves. It's very rarely just somebody sits there and they're like, like this guy, they're just like, Nope, just a mess. Yeah. But at the same time, there was, we talked about this where you like push the goalpost or bring it closer to you. Yeah. Because when I'm in my beginning of my addiction, there's like 99 things that I won't do for drugs. Yeah. Right. And then there's like 80 things that I won't do for drugs. And at the end there was like, maybe three things that I wouldn't do for drugs. Yeah. And if I would have kept going, I might have been selling the old drugs. Well, that's okay. Nothing wrong with that. Wouldn't have made no money. Oh, yeah. Again, fuck. So alcohol is a very, it's a tricky one to me. Like, yeah, because it's everywhere. Exactly. Well, that's just it. And it's socially acceptable. It's socially acceptable. If you popped open a beer right here right now, everybody in the audience, maybe our audience would be like, Oh, what are they doing? Yeah. But it was saying like, maybe you go out on your porch and you have a six pack of beer and you drink the whole thing. Get hammered drunk. And nobody's going to bat an eye at you. Dating culture. It's super normal to drink. Like everyone wants to meet for a drink. Right. And Austin is a big drinking city as well. Well, yeah, it's just like, I mean, I don't know how many times this gets, you don't drink. Why? And you're like. Yeah. Well, I think it's super important to be honest. Yeah. Like I think that like pain stinking honesty is really important. Sobriety. Sure. Also being discerning is important. Sure. Not everybody needs to know your whole story. Not everybody needs to know I like did to see in the jungle of Costa Rica, but they can know like, I don't drink because I'll say because I'm sober and if they really press the issue, then well, because I'm an alcoholic, I went to rehab. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess I said that more for the point of like, I feel like and Rachel said this, normalize not asking someone why. Yeah, for sure. Right. And that's. Oh my God. Oh my God. Why? Why do you not? Yeah. It's almost like there's something wrong with you. Well, I go out with friends that after work and they don't know that you're sober and you're like, oh no, no, I'm good. And they're like, why don't you drink? Well, I would venture even though that someone who really presses that might have an issue themselves because people who don't really people who don't have an issue don't care. They're not paying attention to what you're doing. They're like, okay, drink or don't whatever. Yeah. And they move on. Yeah. I think people who are really like bristled by that. I think maybe there's an underlying issue there. Or maybe they want insight. Yeah. Maybe they have that issue. Yeah. Again, read the room. Know your audience. Yeah. For sure. See what angle they're coming from. For sure. So how long were you in the fight for? I mean, I feel like there were three like really bad years. I would say that I displayed alcoholic tendencies essentially my whole life beginning in college. But at that point you're young, you know, people, everyone, not everyone, but many people are blacking out. Like people can very much again, normalize your behavior. It's college, right? It's college. Again, it's like, that's what you do at college. The essence of party. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like this is your time to shine. Like we're all going to go to these fat parties. We're all going to have like nights we don't remember, you know, even there's like songs like that, like whatever. And but yeah, really. So I kind of like lived everywhere. I've done a bunch of things in my life, but I went to School of Rhode Island and I lived in New York for a long time. Okay. I lived in Denmark for a year and then I moved to Austin and that was 12 years ago. And when I was living here throughout that time, I was modeling. And so I was doing commercial and commercial print modeling. And also I was traveling with the auto show, going to a bunch of different auto shows. I was on a team. I was whatever. And that culture, there's a lot of addiction within, within that culture. But also, I mean, essentially there would be times when I would be getting paid to go party. So they'd be like, Oh, we're opening such and such. Come host this thing. Guest model, Devin. I say a few words and then I get to go drink in the corner. Right. And so I lived here for about six years. And at the end of that six years, I went through a really tough breakup. And at that point, I would say is when my drinking like got super out of control, but in that space, I still had so many friends. So I was still living here in Austin and I would go out. I would be ridiculous, but I just knew so many people and so many people had my best interest that I was always safe. You know, so I'd always get home. In my mind, I'm like, Oh, I'm just cool. Yeah, exactly. So then I ended up moving to Oklahoma City. I moved there originally to help my grandma. She was doing her cancer treatments in Oklahoma City. And then I kind of got stuck there during COVID and that's the time when everything became very apparent to me. Like I was very unhappy. And I'm not blaming that happiness because I would drink in times of happiness. I would drink in times of sorrow. I would drink in all the time for any reason, but I was alone. And so that became, that's when it became very clear. Like, okay, this is an issue. And one night I injured myself. I injured myself pretty badly. I woke up and this whole side of my face was black and blue. My car was on three wheels outside of a mattress from parking lot. Oh no. My phone was broken and I was about 20 pounds thinner and I woke up from that and I was like looking at myself in the mirror, shaking. And I feel like I had a true step one and two experience in that moment. It was my own voice, but I heard myself say, so I had a thought. I had the most concise, clear thought I'd ever had and it was, you have to go to rehab. And I really felt that I was on the precipice of something irrevocable. Like I could tell that I was going to end not good. Yeah. And so I got on my computer because my phone was broken. Yeah. And I reached out to my parents and I reached out to my siblings. I'm very close with both my brothers and was just like, hey, you know, this thing isn't going well and I think I need to go to rehab. And also at that time, I feel like once I made the decision, like the entire universe basically conspired in my favor to help me. So I reached out to a girl I knew from New York who had also been to rehab. She put me in touch with the rehab locator and yeah, I made the decision to go to rehab outside of Fredericksburg and Curville. So is there a goalpost moving for you and drinking as well? Like it would. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I want to talk about that as well. I mean, I'm, I guess a silly question, I guess a little bit because I feel like all addicts do that or we'll end up doing that. I mean, did it start off with a little bit of the drink or maybe a couple days a week and then it went more weekends. I was always like a big wine drinker and I always felt like that was very sophisticated and I dated men and long term relationships with men who knew a lot about wine and we'd go to these nice dinners and we drink wine and so in my mind, I was like, oh, this is just what like fancy people do. Yeah. And I loved Perseco and I loved all those things and definitely I can't remember exactly. I think probably when I was living in Austin and I was in that long term relationship that was pretty tumultuous, we would drink wine a lot at home. And then I kind of just carried that over when we broke up and I, and I'm not blaming him in any sense, but that was definitely something that we did together and then I got very comfortable just like drinking wine at home. And towards the end, yeah, I think I would drink, I mean, maybe sometimes three bottles a night and then a lot of wine. Yeah, for sure. And then my goalpost I think was probably like straight vodka. Like I was always like, I'm not going to drink like straight vodka. I don't know why, but it's so crazy to me. Yeah. And the end I would like drink vodka when I woke up. Wow. So probably not. I mean, did that part didn't last that long? I'll be honest because it all just like came crashing down pretty quick. But yeah, I think there's like last two weeks of my, well, also once I made the decision to go to rehab, it was around my birthday. And I was like, all right, last two raw. Yeah, you went and got hammered. I went out with a baby. Yeah. And my parents actually ended up, so I was supposed to drive myself to rehab. Like I did all the things on my own. Like I paid for rehab myself, which is great. I think it holds a lot of accountability and I'm like super proud of myself that I made that decision. And like I think that was money that was invested in my future and my life. I truly don't know that I would be alive if I hadn't gone. Yeah, she still had money to do that. Yeah, it was like my whole, it was my whole thing. Someone had to pay for me. I was like, all right, you want me to go, you got to pay. Yeah. I truly think that that's like the, I'm so stubborn. Like I think that that's the only way it would have clicked for me if I had to do it like all by myself. If it was my decision, I was completely responsible financially. You know, I think if there had been any other set of circumstance, I don't know that it would have really took hold like it did. I mean, when you're painted into a corner of addiction, it seems like everybody's story, that's where it sticks is when they're making the decision to go. Absolutely. Right. Where it's not forced upon them. They're not. It's nobody else's idea. There's, I mean, even interventions, which I think are good, you know, but when the person is like, I not want to, I need to go. I must. Yeah. That's when it always seems to take that turn for the better. Yeah. 100%. But you, I mean, you're, you're leveled up because you paid for it. You did everything. So you were like, I was very committed. I'm not going to sell. Yeah. Yeah. I was investing in myself for sure. That's how I very much look at it. Like I invested in my future and I'm super glad. Um, but I felt like there was a question you asked that I didn't fully answer. There was something you said that I wanted to, but just keep going. You forget I'm the moron of the group. So that, that fleeting thought just went in. It might come back to me. Was it the goalpost? No, you can answer. No, you answered the goalpost. No, you're, you're good. So it ends up going to vodka at the end, which also seems to be like the move. The move. Alcoholics. Yeah. Let's just get there. Yeah. I need that right now. So as far as, so you mentioned COVID because we've had several people say that COVID was where a lot of turns took. For a lot of people relapse too. Yeah. There's been a lot of relapsing. Where we lost a lot of people and a lot of people took, took turns. So, you know, what about COVID? I don't know that it was COVID necessarily for me because especially in the space I was in, in Oklahoma city, people were still very active. Like it wasn't. Yeah. Um, was it maybe that you didn't know so many people there? That was it. More than anything. Yeah. I think cause what you were saying, like in Austin, everybody knew you. Right. So when you went out, didn't really matter how fucked up you got. Yeah. So they're always going to say you should go home. There'd be somebody. Well, when you go to another place, cause I know during my addiction, one of the things that took me to start gambling is because I would be so lonely sitting at home. Yeah. I would, like I would go to the strip club, stay out all night, get back home at two and I'm still, I'm high. I'm wide awake. Right. And I like, I gotta be at work at eight, but what am I going to do from two to eight? I'll just go gamble. So I'd go and sit in those little gambling rooms and lose all of my money. And then I'd travel into work, not sleeping or anything. But that was where my gambling addiction definitely started because I would be just, I mean, two in the morning, there's not many people I can call to be awake. Exactly. So I was just like, well, I know in the gambling room, there's gonna be people there. So I'll just go there. That's where my gambling took all of my money. Wow. Yeah. And probably when you went to Oklahoma, you just didn't know anybody. I just didn't know anybody. It wasn't the same. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't the same. And kind of the same thing. Like I'd be up late and I did kind of like end up making friends with people, the underbelly of Oklahoma City ideas, you know, people who were wanting to stay up late with me and do those kinds of things. But it was just very hollow. Right. Right. So going into rehab, you only had, you were one and done? Yeah, yeah. I had one rehab experience. Oh, Where'd you go in rehab? Was it in Texas? Yeah, in Holbrooke. Oh, okay. You said in Curveville. Yeah, in Curveville. Yeah. Nice. So I had tried once prior to this to get sober. I, when I very first moved to Oklahoma City and I was like so alone, I went out drinking by myself. And again, I would do that all the time in Austin, but I would run into people. So I didn't feel so lonely. Right. Well here, it was like there, it was like very clear, like girl, you're alone. What are you doing by yourself? You're just having a table of yourself. Just drinking away. Yeah. So I would go to like Cheesecake Factory or, like, this is more normal. No one would suspect me here and then I'm black out at Cheesecake Factory. So I ended up getting kicked out of a Cheesecake Factory actually. Wow. Yes. Yes. That was a low. And whole series of events that made me like think, okay, I probably should try a, so alcoholism does run in my family and my mom was like, why don't you just go to a meeting? So I go to my first meeting. It's someone had mentioned like, I don't remember. Oh, okay. So I, I wasn't a yoga instructor yet, but I was doing hot yoga, traditional hot yoga in Oklahoma. And I meet this guy. We tried to, I tried to go to a meeting in the afternoon and at the meeting it was, it wasn't in existence any longer, but there was someone sitting outside of it and it's a guy that I knew from hot yoga. So he was like, Hey, the meeting that you really should go to is just like 7am at such and such place. And so I go and it's all men. It was all men. Like, and I'm talking like a hundred, like a hundred men. And then I was just like, is this an all man meeting? Like I didn't know what to do. And it was my first meeting ever. So I was just like terrified. Yeah. That's gotta be uncomfortable, especially for your first meeting. Yeah. And they're like, is anybody like brand new here? And I'm like, me, and I'm like, are girls supposed to even be here? Yeah. Everybody just scratched the record. So that's the difference. If you're a guy and you go to your first meeting and there's a hundred women, it's like, I'm just, I'm fucking in. But as a girl, it's like, this is terrible. Yeah. No, I was like, yeah. So no wonder it didn't stick. I have to be honest. I think that a culture is different everywhere and you have to find the place that really works for you. And I'm so grateful that I did find places like that in Austin. Again, I do think that rehab really helped me build a foundation to understand my sobriety better. So I know more what I need. Yeah. And that moment. So I was sober, I think for like three months. I did 90 and 90 and I was like, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. I made it. All done. I'm not really an alcoholic because I couldn't relate to anyone there. What am I supposed to relate to with a bunch of like, I mean, not 50 is not that old, but you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah. 50 to 75 year old men, some are young men, but they're in like, in that meeting, I felt like people didn't really share very like intimate details. So this is before you went to rehab. This is before. So I did try one time prior, like actively try to get sober and failed at that. So I will say that I think that, you know, for mitigating circumstances, there are some people who truly just need that immersive experience of rehab. I think that some can just. I needed it. Yeah, exactly. Some, and I don't mean just, but some can go to AA and feel fulfilled in that. There are others like us who need to really just be in it, like being it for 30 days and have. Where I went, there's a lot of trauma informed therapy as well. So. Okay. Yeah. When I first got, when I first tried to get sober, I think I made it 60 days and I was just going to meetings and I wasn't, there was no community. I wasn't introduced to myself. I wasn't doing any stuff. I didn't even know what the steps were whenever I went to rehab and they brought the big book out. I had went 60 days sober and go into AA meetings like twice a week. I don't even know what they were talking about when they talked about the big book. Yeah. And, but I thought like I can do this on my own and, and maybe some people can. And I remember on my 60 days, I've said this on this podcast before I called my drug dealer and I was like, Hey, coming over, it's time to celebrate. Just made it 60 days. And he told me, and I told him before I got sober, I said, Hey, look, if I ever call and say I'm coming to get something, remind me I'm about to lose my daughter. And he told me, he said, Hey, you can come through, but remember you're putting your daughter online and that didn't matter. Yeah. Because it was already in my head that I was coming and I told him, don't do that. I said, I'm either coming there to get something or I'm going somewhere else because I've already beat this. I'm just going to do this this night. And I'm good. This is the fun thing I'm doing. This is like one other time. This is to prove myself right. And that was in 2018 and I didn't get sober until 2022. So that was four more years that it took me out from that one night. And I got high that night and I didn't make it the next day until the next day. And then it was every day from there. Yeah. I couldn't stop. I can't remember the exact trajectory when I relapsed that first time. But yeah, it was kind of the same thing. Like it was Halloween and I was like, Let's go. Well, let's go. Time to celebrate. Yeah. And I was like, I got a mask on. Nobody knows me. Yeah. I was like, whatever. And to your point, there was no community. There was no like big book study at all. I think it was fellowship. No fellowship. And yeah, I was kind of just, I think in that moment, just hiding in my apartment for 90 days in retrospect, like I wasn't out living in the world. I was just kind of like bare knuckle in my apartment. I'm not drinking, you know? Yeah. And then I'm like, well, I did it. So back out again. We go. And I think I was out again for like two years or something. Yeah. Um, before I really. So how long was that before you had the moment where you were like, I'm, I'm going to rehab? I think it was about two years. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that was like right at the start of when I lived in Oklahoma and then going to rehab was right at the end. Because I knew also that I wanted to move back to Austin and I was like, I can't move back a mess. I need to move back healthy. Yeah. And this is, this is the only way I know how to be healthy. Like I need foundation to exactly like I want a strong, which I feel I do have a strong foundation to my, for my sobriety so that I can go live in the world. I don't think that, um, being sober is to be sitting in your room hiding away or only sitting in meetings. Like I think that the essence of sobriety is that now when I'm out, I get to be my full brightest self in any circumstance. I can go where any free man can go. That's a great point. Um, when I was going, when I started this time, when I got out of rehab, I was going to like three meetings a day. Right. And one of my buddies, that's not in the program, he was asking like, Hey, what are you doing this week? And I said, well, Saturday, I'm going to this meeting this meeting and then Sunday. And he said, do you really have to go to that many meetings? And I was probably like four or five months over. And I said, well, uh, what do you mean? And he said, well, did you get sober just to go to meetings all the time? He said, because I think there's a bit like if you have to go to meetings, go to them. Right. But you figure you take 30 minutes to get there, 30 minutes to get home. You're at a meeting for an hour. That's two hours and you're going three of them a day. That's six hours out of your day that you're finding meetings and in going and do all this. He said, didn't you get sober to like just enjoy life? And that was the day that where I was like, you know what? He's got a really good point. Like do it. So I started cutting the meetings down and I still go to meetings now. I just don't go to them every single day. Yeah. And I go to them when I feel like I'm not spiritually fit. Those that's when I go to a meeting. Same. Like I'm not on the good level with God today. Right. I need to go to a meeting. Yeah. When I'm in my like resentful space, when I'm like you're saying not spiritually fit, I think that is always a space I'm so grateful for. And I know I can go there and like find a conversation that I will relate to and hear a story that I will relate to. But the essence of sobriety is that we get to live. Yeah. Yeah. Some of you will die from this. That's a real thing. Yeah. So going into rehab, I want you to talk a little bit. Did you ever, did you have to go through withdrawal? Okay. Okay. This is what I wanted to tell you. So it was around my birthday and I, my plan was that I was going to. My family was coming into town for my birthday and then I was going to go visit my brother in San Francisco and then I was going to go, my birthday is April 13th. I was going to go May 1st to rehab and I was going to drive myself. Well, because I knew that there was an end date. I was just like balls to the wall, let's freaking go. And my youngest brother lives in Dallas and I'm super, super close with him. He's like my best friend in the world and he came in for my birthday and I like completely blew him off. I was so wasted. I said, I got him a hotel room. There was no hotel room. I was nowhere to be found. He was like, where are you? Like I was just like out. Like I don't even really remember where I was honestly. Um, but I was out. I was partying. I was like too busy. Yeah. I'm too busy. Um, figured out yourself. I'm like, you're grown. Yeah. Um, and then that's kind of like, I think for my parents, that was like a huge cry for help. Um, which is funny. I feel like there was a lot of things along the way that were a cry for help, but it doesn't matter how we get there. It matters that we arrived. And so my parents were like, wow, she would not blow him off like this. Like this is serious. Like she's a mess. And so they show up. We're supposed to go to this like really nice birthday dinner. And my mom said, um, because he called chills. My mom said there's been a change of plans and I just like broke down. I was just sobbing and I remember saying to her like, I wish I was different. And she was just like, I know we're going to take you. It's going to be okay. And I'm so grateful. Thank God they were able to drive me there. It was like a two day drive. I mean, you have to, I was in the, you know, Como City, like I said, we had to stay the night in between one place. And yes, I was going through really horrible withdrawal. And at that time, like I didn't really want to tell my parents like how deep I was into this thing. Like even though they knew I was going to rehab, um, I think they still just didn't fully grasp. And so I'm like sweating through the sheets at night, shaking, you know, losing my mind. And they're kind of just like, what's wrong with you? Yeah. That's so to my understanding, uh, benzos and alcohol are the two withdrawal symptoms that can actually kill you. Oh yeah. No, I'm like, I didn't die. Right. That's what I'm saying is like white knuckling, alcohol withdrawal. There's been many moments I should have died. Honestly, you're supposed to be weaned off of, off of that. And it sounds like you were just deep in there around your parents, people. You don't want to know how bad you are. Yeah. You're hiding it for sure. Oh, right. And so that whole drive down, I mean, it was miserable. I think my mom was still in a space where she didn't really have a lot of empathy. She was just super angry with me. And so she's kind of there, like really. This is what you get. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just, my mom would have been like, yeah, fucking hope it feels good. Yeah. Dumbass. Yeah. Let it out. Yeah. And I'm just like in the back, like falling to pieces. Yeah. Um, but again, I'm just so super grateful they were able to come get me. And how long do the withdrawal symptoms last? Well, I will say that I swept through my bed like that the whole 30 days I was there. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Every single night I had to wake up halfway through the night and like change out of my clothes. I was dripping sweat. Whoa. Yeah. 30 days. 30 days. Yeah. When did it, when did you start feeling back normal? Um, I feel like I started feeling normal maybe after like 10 days. Like I feel like 10 days in. Again, I was super committed to the still. So I was terrified, like scared, spitless, shaking as I walked up. But I was just like, kind of like we were talking about with my mom. I mean, my parents are serious. My family's seriously. They're like, look, buddy. Yeah. This is one and done. Also, I don't know that I could ever report it again. You know, like there are so many things that were going through my mind of like, all right, you got to really take this seriously. You got to buckle down and you got to make sure that this sticks. And so, yeah, I was terrified. Um, and I think probably the first week for sure, just kind of. Kind of a blur. Kind of a blur. And also like, I'm realizing now, like slipping, slipping into like patterns of behavior that are so, um, typical, like addicts or alcoholics, you know, like. Trying to. I don't know how to describe it, like trying to. Focus on anything else be like, Oh, I don't want to get fat volume here or something like that. You know, just like, and these girls mean like, we're not responsible for you. You're accountable for yourself. And then these are like the first time I'm like hearing these words said to me this way, like, wow, I'm responsible for myself here. Like there's no one to blame. There's no one to pick up the pieces. There's no one to hold my hand and make sure I get home. Like we're not accountable for you. You're accountable for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm still just blown away at the 30 days of, of withdrawal. Yeah. That's crazy. That's a long time. I think for, for meth is probably like two weeks for me. Um, I would always get really depressed. Like I could get like five and six days sober. And then once the depression part kicked in to where I like I'm having suicidal thoughts, I'm like, I know how to fix this. I can't deal with this anymore. And I would always go back to it and think I'm so grateful that I went to rehab. Because I don't think if I would have tried to do it without rehab, if I didn't have a safe place to go where I could just be me, no phone, no account. Like not having to worry about work, not having to worry about bills, not having to worry about anything, just worry about fixing myself. I wouldn't have been able to get through the depression part. It was a tribe around you too. And that's what I was about to say. Having 11 good guys around me. Yeah. That some of them were going through it worse than I was because they were coming off a heroin and fentanyl. So I was having to kind of almost like take care of them too. While they're sweating and while they're not being able to sleep and things like that. It was, if I didn't go there, I would not, I don't think I'd be sober today. It would be very, it would have been very, very hard just because of the, the depression when it starts kicking in. Now I didn't start feeling normal again until about six months. As far as like my sleep, like I slept all, when I would go to work, go catch a meeting and then I was in bed by nine o'clock and I would sleep until seven the next day. Cause I had been up for 10 years so much. So I had to catch up all of my sleep and my eyes didn't come back to normal colors until about six months. Wow. Yeah. They were, that's where it was the worst for me was just like, man, I, I don't know how long it's going to take for me to feel normal again. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, cause I had a bunch of childhood trauma that I had to work through and I had been honestly suicidal as a child. Like there was, um, just some really dark memories that I had suppressed really deeply and didn't even remember until I was about like 33. And so working through all of that, again, I just think that there's no other space that that would have been available for me. Like rehab was pretty much the only option because it was like you're doing their intensive therapy two to three times a day. You're doing group work therapy and then you're studying the big book. So it's like you're building so many foundational things. And, um, so I started to feel more myself working through that and also I don't know. I guess like I was just so focused on like getting like, I almost like didn't think it through. You know what I'm saying? Like I was just so in it that I like had no time to not feel myself. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't even remember like, there being a distinct moment where I'm like, Oh, I'm Devon again. Cause I just feel like it was like go, go, go, you know, like we're going to knock this out. We got to figure this out. Um, childhood trauma is weird too. Oh, absolutely. Like the, and I say it from this standpoint. So I was watching a show and it's called the Keepers. You should watch it. Okay. But these ladies were traumatized in a school and they didn't even start getting their memories back until they're like old ladies. Right. So I think we were talking with somebody about like statute of limitations and stuff on crimes for trauma with the lane, with the lane. Miss Texas. Yeah. Miss Texas. So she had a very similar thing happened and it's, it's weird how, like how many people I've talked to that have like just blocked. Yeah. And the body always keeps the score. That's the thing. Yeah. And this will, it will manifest. It will manifest in illness. It will manifest in addiction. Yeah. It will manifest in all of these. But it will come back to you. Oh, absolutely. The blocker, whatever that thing is, it will unblock and the damn will bust. And yeah. So. And that's kind of the year. Yeah. 33 was the year when I like started to get some of these memories back. And then 36 was when I ended up going to rehab. Okay. So you got them back before you went to rehab. Yeah. And then I was like, this is something I really need to work on. I had no idea how I did not have the tools. So when they came back, did your drinking intensify? Yeah. For sure. For sure. 100%. Intensified. And because it was like, fuck these memories. Yeah. Fuck these memories. Fuck how you feel. Fuck this experience. I don't know how to be different. I don't know how to feel different. And I think that's what's really beautiful about rehab and AA and trauma informed therapy is that it gives you the words and it gives you the tools. Because so much of trauma, no one's to blame. Like what can we do? We don't know. None of us have been here before. And in this, in this moment, I'm speaking of like my family, my family and I, we've never been here before. What do we do? And I mean, we just didn't have the tools, you know what I'm saying? So like to be given the tools to like understand myself better. But what I was going to say is that that was a huge part of my drinking, that I would feel like so much shame, so much embarrassment. Be very depressed. And then have a couple of days where I'd like go do something for myself, feel a little bit more clear headed and then feel happy again. And then be like, Oh, I'm going to drink. And so without rehab, I definitely don't think that I would have been able to stay sober on my own because there would have been that cycle of feeling depression, feeling shame, feeling regret, drinking more, blacking out, abstaining for a time. Due to shame. And then the cycle repeating because, Oh, I've got a few days of clear head nests and now I'm like, Oh, I'm fine again. And you might not have had the space to work through that, right? The safe space to be able to work through that. Or even if you really would have wanted to work through it. Yeah, that's the thing. That's the other thing is with trauma like buckets. Let me try to forget this again. Right. I don't really want to work through this. I don't want to have to deal with this. There's a reason I forgot it. So let me try to forget it again. Right. And then it keeps coming back, coming back and maybe even worse. And that's one of the best things about. And like the program itself is if you're willing to do the work and you're willing to work through the program, like it will bring these things up that you never thought were such a big deal. Yes. That are a huge deal. And it gives you a way to work through them and it gives you the tools. Like you said, to be able to. Okay. Now I know how to actually go through this in a healthy way rather than in a non-healthy way. Yeah. Cause it's like you're remembering this version of yourself that you don't want to be any longer. And then you're like, uh, what do I do? Oh, I know I can drink and be this different version of myself, which is. Theoretically fun until it really, really isn't fun. And then. Yeah. Back at it again. Yeah. Yeah. So in rehab, I'm a 12 steps, 12 step program. 12 step heavy, no phones. Um, we had one call a week. I think I'm just like a huge proponent of like, if you're going to go, go to the hardcore ones. That's how ours was. It was a phone. You got 30 minutes of calls on a weekend on one day. Exactly. And it was, um, supervised. Yeah. Supervised. That was always a cry fest for me, especially when I talked to my little one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, so. No books are reading aloud aside from the big book, the Bible. Was yours co-ed or just women? Just women. So yeah, I'm a huge believer in that. Oh, absolutely. There's no way there's, if I would have went to a co-ed one, I would have. Performing. I would have tried to wife up everybody. It would have been performative. And I just knew I needed to be so real. Like I needed to let all my guard down, my mask down, all the things that I, the shields that I had put up in the world to protect myself from the pain that I was feeling, I needed to be able to just truly in a space where I'm not concerned with how I look, concerned with, does this guy like me? You know, it's just like normal to like have those feelings. To find yourself. Yeah. I think it's very imperative to be in a space where you're just with people of your same sex. Yeah. Well, the, um, as far as the 12 steps go, I ask a lot of people this, but what do you feel like was the hardest one to work for you? Oh my gosh. Um, I think, uh, I mean, step four is a toughie. Like I think it's amazing. And, um, I honestly feel like everybody could benefit from a good step four. Yeah. But yeah, you got to get, you got to be very honest. Again, like super, super truthful. I think to be successful in this program and successful in sobriety, you have to be super truthful and that starts with yourself. Yeah. So you have to really like dig deep into some of the ways that you have impacted your own demise. Yeah. So do you sponsor anybody? I don't. So I'll be honest with you. I haven't completed all the steps. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I got to like step eight in rehab and then when I got out, I do love the steps. I don't want it to seem like I'm like, I haven't went through all of them either. I went through them in rehab and then I started again and I've got, I'm at step nine and I've been there for a minute. Yeah. Yeah. So right now I don't even have a sponsor. Um, I'm not saying that's the path through everyone. Yeah. Um, I, again, I just really feel like I built this super strong foundation for myself in rehab and I'm not trying to, um, I want to say humble there. I don't want to be like, I'm good forever. Yeah. Um, but I do truly believe that the purpose of rehab and even AA is that you get out in the world and you live. So for me, I'm, I'm very busy in all these healthy ways and I, um, you know, I'm a yoga instructor. I do a lot of yoga and I have a lot of friends and so yeah, I think that, um, I don't know that like this having a sponsor and having like working through all the steps and that being like the main focus is for everyone. I think that like that. I think it's, they exist for a reason and I think it's so beautiful. Yeah. Um, and controversial take from Devin. I like it where we're doing controversy. No, but I like, you're not the first person to say that you're not the first person who we've had on. There's been a, quite a few that have gone down that seem very successful and they are, it's very alternative in the way that they choose to do it. It just works for them. Right. Whatever works for you. Yeah, exactly. And I don't think that I, I'm not really going to advise someone one way or the other. I think that the steps are a beautiful suggestion and I would always suggest the steps to people and I would suggest meetings for sure. And I think again, that's one of the most beautiful spaces that exist for an addict or an alcoholic because there is no other place where people understand you that same way. The love that you feel in those rooms, it's incomparable. Yeah. Because it's, there's nothing else like it. But I was about to say, and they're available. They're available to you at any time. Yeah. But there's not going to be someone who truly know Kenomi, like Mike Kenomi. 100%. It's just not possible. And that's, that's why I'll always go back to the rooms, but I'm not going to live there. I'm the same way. Yeah. I, whenever, when I feel like I need to go or if, if we're at work, I have a rule that if anybody ever says, Hey, you still go to meetings? Yes. But maybe I should catch one with you sometimes. We're going tonight. Yeah. Like if you're reaching out to me or if somebody reaches out to me and says anything about going to a meeting, as long as I don't have my daughter, we're going tonight. Yeah. Let's go tonight. Cause I always feel like that's a, that's a call for help. Yeah. And especially like a tiptoe away call for help. Like maybe we should go to one sometimes. No, what are you doing tonight? Let's go tonight. Yeah. That's one of my big rules. People are looking for a safety net though. Like a good one though. Not, I don't mean that in a negative way, but when somebody comes to you or you in that manner, they're like, I want to go. I just feel uncomfortable going. I would feel a lot more comfortable if you were there. For sure. I would never deny going to a meeting with someone. I would rearrange to be able to go. Someone said, Hey, I really like would love you to see you, for you to see me get my chip or like, I'm really feeling like I need a meeting right now. I'm like, let's go. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100% because I think that is like special. Like they trust you enough to ask you. Yeah. And that is kind of the core tenant of like AA and sobriety. One of the things we're taught. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta help. You gotta help. Yeah. Well, afforded if you want to stay sober. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I would never deny going with someone to a meeting. Um, but for me personally, like, I definitely go, I get my chips and I try to go once a month. And I know I should go more, but the time frame that I love, maybe you shouldn't. Yeah. The time frame I love, um, I teach a lot during that time. How long have you been sober? Three years. Yeah. So about the same time as I don't go, I'm probably going once a month now too. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, the thing that sucks with, with the meetings is after you go a year, you don't get many chips anymore. It's like every six months. And then after two years, it's every year. I'm like, like, I think your first year, you should get one every month. Yeah. I think I wish they would change that to where you get one every month. It wouldn't incentivize. It was, it's a big fucking deal. You know, because once you get to three months, getting from three to six, that's a tough spot. Yeah. Especially when you've only been sober for 90 days in the last 10 years. It'd be a hell of a domino to start crumbling because then I could make an argument that somebody in their first 30 days should get one every fucking day. Well, you can get a 24 hour chip, baby. Yeah. Well, yeah. But when I first went, I didn't know that I was picking one up every day of 24 hour chip. Fuck it. Give me one. Yeah. But then all kinds of 24 hour. That's where somebody who hasn't been sober in 24 hours. Somebody that is making the decision to stay sober for the next 24 hours. That you have the desire, that you have the willingness that you are like in this moment. It's just not for newcomers. I misunderstood. Yeah. Misunderstood. They were throwing some knowledge. Yeah. Me and Devon throwing some knowledge up. I got one every meeting I went to. I was like, I want one. No, I know. Sometimes I want one just to be like, yeah, I'm really in it today. Especially when the guy's giving them out and nobody's gone up there for the two years, 18 months. And he's like, anybody else? I'm like, fuck it. I'll take one. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You had that happen one time in one of those meetings where it was like three years. Shit. Two years. Two years. No, 18 months. Somebody finally stood up at one year and you were like, let's go. Let's freaking go. Yeah. But so I went to sober living right after rehab. How long did you go to rehab? One month. You went for 30 days. Yeah, I went for 30 days and then I was in sober living for two months. I don't have like the best things to say about sober living. I've got to be really honest. A lot of people don't. I think it's a bit of a scam. I do. More controversy. So I've heard good ones and I like Destiny was in one. Okay. And it was fucking terrible. Yeah. It was, I won't say the name on it, but she's in there in like, if they call an emergency meeting at one in the morning, you have to show up. Like if it's, if she has a night, if she has a stay out night and she's staying here and they call an emergency meeting, she has to leave here and drive 40 minutes to go there. It was insane. And they had stupid meetings for everything. And she was in one where there wasn't a house manager. So they all kind of like took their, everybody just had their own little job. It was insane. I've seen the ones where there's a house manager, where it's a lot better. I was in one where there was a house manager. Yeah. Excuse me. Um, I just think it's like 12 people living in a three bedroom house and each person's paying two grand. Oh, that's an expensive one. Yeah, that's a lot. He was in, he was in a bougie one. That feels like a scam. That's, I, I, I, I mean, they were a bunk bed. Most of my people were paying like four or 500 bucks a month. He was in a nice house. Yeah. I mean, but. Was it? But was it? Yeah. So I ended up getting kicked out. Um, I, I, they wanted me to stay. Well, they wanted me to stay forever because they. $2,000 a month. Oh, yeah. I'm like, shit, you can move in this actual room over here. Shit. Right. Yeah. I wanted me to stay. Yeah. And they got a curfew. Right. And the thing about sober living, um, I don't regret most things regardless, but I will never regret going. I think it was great accountability, especially in that first month back in Austin to have the, um. It might have helped. It did. It's still 100% helped me. I think everything along this path has helped. I don't really view many things as being. Unhelpful. And that's just reflecting on it though. And yeah, yeah, I would still go. I would still go. I'm not saying I wouldn't repeat the experience. Yeah. But, um, yeah, though, when I went to, they wanted me to stay forever, like I mentioned, um, after about two months, I was becoming aware that maybe, you know, I'm good on this. Yeah. The people there like needed, um, better understanding on how to like live. Right. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, I know how to do laundry, dude. Like, yeah. Right. Right. That you know how to pay bills. I know how to wash your dishes. Exactly. Yeah. Well, also, some people literally don't know how to do that shit. Right. When they go to sober living. And I think that's also a great experience to have. I'm there with 21 year olds. I'm there with 19 year old, like fucking 37 years old. Yeah. That's how I'm saying it. Yeah. I'm like, okay. Yeah, I know. Um, so I think, I think it's good. And that sense. Um, and I think that is what, like, is the great equalizer of like addiction to is that, okay, we have this shared experience and we can be any age. So I'm, I'm not discrediting that part, but yeah, that many people in such a condensed space, I know for sure that rent wasn't that expensive. So they're absolutely turning a profit. Yeah. And then I mean, you're supposed to have like all these tools available to you and therapists and all these things and they weren't really available. And after about two months, I was like, I'm, I'm realizing that I think I'm good. I'm ready to go be in an apartment by myself. And I, I was very respectful about it. I didn't like run away or anything like that. I gave them notice, which was a mistake in hindsight. Um, and yeah, they ended up kicking me out two days early, like two days before I was set to leave. And I just think that is almost criminal. Yeah. Imagine that you are really, really struggling and you have two days where they were like, get out now. So they come, they sit you down and they're like, get yourself. They probably had someone want your bed. It wasn't really a space like that. No, no, no, it wasn't like that. Maybe there, maybe it was, but two days really. Yeah. It's a, I was supposed to move out and they kicked me out two days early. And, um, if, if I were a different person, I mean, that could make someone rebots. Yeah, I could definitely put somebody in the bottom, you know, for all intents and purposes, I was living in my car in that moment. But that's what I was going to say, especially if you didn't have anywhere to go. I had no word. I luckily, very luckily had a friend that let me go stay at their place. But I mean, that was an extenuating circumstance. That wasn't, that's not going to be the typical circumstance. Yeah. Imagine if you were in a different state that you went to rehab and then the sober living, you don't know a motherfucker there at all. And my whole life it packed in my car. Yeah. Yeah. And they're like, figured out for two days. I see why you hold the. Grudge. Opinion of sober living. Little bit. That you do. I get it. I get it. You know, when I get, when I got out of rehab, they were trying to put me in sober living and, but I have my daughter. Yeah. So, and obviously I'm not bringing my daughter around 12 other guys, right? Nor would my, my daughter's mother ever fucking allow that. And I don't blame her. Yeah. So they were like, they were really big on trying to get me to go trying to, you should really think about sober living. And I'm like, I have an apartment. I already have something somewhere to go to. And I'm not breaking my lease. I literally just signed it. Oh yeah. Absolutely. So it, it wasn't an option for me. Now, if I didn't have my daughter, I might have thought about it just to get around another good group of guys because for another 30 days, but I, but like, there's some people that stay there for years. Oh, I know. And I'm not saying nothing bad about them. Just in my opinion, you have to get out there and live like what you said. You have to get out there and figure out like, can I do this one? Yeah. And do I have the, I mean, can I do this on my own? Yeah. Yeah. And so much. Again, goes back to live in life. Yeah. Sober, right? A hundred percent. Out there, live in life, doing normal things. Yeah. Sober. Well, and when I decided to go to, they were trying to convince me to stay and I was like, no, I'm good. I signed a lease, whatever. They ended up emailing my parents like conflicting statistics. My mom was so offended. She was just like, this is absurd. You're again, they're tattling on a 30, 70 year old role. She's like, I don't know what they expect. Yeah. I don't know. By the way, you're a 37 year old daughter. It's about to skip out of here. Yeah. You might want to make a phone call to her. And they gave her like conflicting statistics of like success rates. Based from what? Yeah. Oh, geez. Yeah. Oh, man. So I was like, wow. So I do have a little bit of a grudge. A grudge. A little bit of a grudge. A little resentment. Fuck them. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. That's all right. But again, I don't take it back. I think I would do it all over again. 100%. I think it was further cement in the foundation. Nice. This beautiful spidey that I have. So talk about it today. What? Uh, what is that? So you're a yoga instructor. You were telling me. So yeah. Again, I was reflecting on like, when did I start to feel myself again? And I felt like everything was just like boom, boom, boom. So I moved back to Austin. My dad and I, we had like one day to go back to my apartment in Oklahoma City. It was like going into like a war zone. Like the air felt weird in there. Like I was just like, ooh, I don't even want to like look at this place. The memories trapped. Yeah. Yeah. It was just like icky. I was like, oh my God. Okay. Yeah. There's a ghost in here. There's a ghost. And it's me. There is a ghost in me. It's my, my former self. My shriveled, sweaty self. My shriveled. Booze induced ghost of ghost. Devin passed. Yeah, exactly. So we grab all my stuff. We come to Austin. He like basically like drops me off here. And right away. So I'm there. I'm in sober living for one month. I'm doing, what's that called? Dang it. I'm forgetting the terms where you go. That is another thing that's good about sober living, though. I will say they like make you do chores, go look for a job. Like the outpatient thing. What's it called? Like the therapy or what? No, not therapy. It's like further like big book study, basically. It's like, oh, and intensive out is it? Intent. Is it IOP? IOP. Yeah. Intensive outpatient. So you still have to keep up with that. So then you have a whole month of intensive outpatient as well. You definitely have to find your AA groups and your groups that you that you click with. Yeah. And I don't want to say that they're clicky, but you know how like when we go to West Lake, West Lake, everybody knows each other. Everybody likes each other. We go and eat and there's 15 or 20 of us that go eat afterwards. Those are the kind of meetings that I need. I don't need to just go to a meeting just to go to a meeting and then not be able to talk to people afterwards, especially early in sobriety. And I want to go fellowship with you. Right. The fellowship after is so important. It's huge. I go to heroin's anonymous on Friday nights. I'm not a heroin addict, but they fellowship every single Friday night. And I love it because there's like 20 or 30 people that go. Yeah. And that's one of my favorite meetings I go to now that we go play pickleball for two hours after until midnight at a bar where nobody's drinking. We're just outside playing pickleball. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. That's cool. Right. Yeah. So life now, I just, it's so special. It's like, I know peace in a way that I have never known in my entire life. I think that's my baseline is peace. And in peace, there is joy and there is sorrow. There's both things, but the baseline is peace. It doesn't mean I'm never unhappy, but I can always come back to this space of just like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you're a yogi. Yeah. I mean, like yogis are the most like happy, peaceful people I've ever been around. People who are in there and you're instructing a class. So like. Right. So right. I was doing the IOP and then the second month that I was in sober living. I knew I wanted to be a yoga instructor. I'd been practicing 15 years. I did my very first yoga class, hot yoga class in New York in 2008. And I'd been wanting to instruct for a while. That was an act of addiction. There's no way for that to happen. Yeah. And so then I get sober and move back to Austin. I'm like, yes, I'm in the space that I love and Austin's like my favorite city. And so I go take this. I'd signed up for a different yoga certification program. And I just kind of found it at random and was like, okay, I guess this will do. And I go one morning and I find a hot studio. So there's a big room, yoga is traditional hot yoga. And I find a hot studio and I go in and it was six a.m. And I ended I took I took Sage. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Took Alex. I don't know if you remember her. Um, I remember Alex. Yes, I took a couple of the girls with me and they came. And in the locker room, there was a sign that said teacher training starting in August and it was July at that point. And I was like, fuck, hell yeah. Here we go. Again, I just felt truly that the universe conspired in my favor. Once I like really made the intention that like I want to be sober. This is my life. I'm sticking with this, holding myself accountable, letting people know this is who I am. The universe rewarded me in that way. I mean, the universe is abundant. So it's always there. Always wants the best rest. But, um, yeah, so did my teacher training. One of the most like life affirming and difficult things I've ever done. I bet. Um, and was just exercising on stop. It was nine weeks and 300 hours. So it's just really intensive. And I was moving into my new place in that time. And I think maybe maybe it was like a year before I really felt like, okay. Okay. I found myself. I know myself now. Yeah. Yeah. That was something that was really big for me is when I knew that I had a drug problem, but I didn't know all the other problems that I had, right? Because I was disguising everything for so long. So I didn't realize that I had stopped loving myself. I realized I stopped caring about myself. And so I always say, like after I have a shirt that I made, it says, I don't remember exactly what it says after addiction, it says, find yourself, forgive yourself, love yourself and reinvent yourself. Yeah, absolutely. And I believe that you, like the hardest forgiving for me was to forgive myself for wasting 10 years of my life. Right. Because it was like, man, I would, I would watch people where we started at the same spot here, but now you're here and I'm still down here. Right. And man, if I would have made the right choices, I could have been there or even further. Yeah. But then we, I have to remember that we all have our same path. I was just wasn't ready. You were in the space to receive it. Yeah. And that's why I sometimes reflect on that too. And I'm like, dang, I'm so impressed. So impressed with these kids. Like it's over when they're like 22. Dude, I'm like, wow. I'm saying, how great. You could just spend your whole twenties being the best version of you. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. And I do. I sometimes I'm like, dang, I wish, but I just know I wasn't there. I wasn't there. I wouldn't have received it like how I did. I would have, I would have blew it all in. I would have blew it all. I would have fucking wasted it all. I would have blown it up. And yeah, rehab. I mean, that's the first time I ever got like a diagnosis of complex PTSD. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and like those kind of things, man, that just like makes so many things makes sense. Yeah. You know, it, it, it uncovers all the things that you're hiding or some of the things that you didn't even know. Right. Right. And then now it's brought to your attention. Yeah. Now what are you going to do about it? Yeah. Are you going to fix or are you not? And that's why I'm grateful for the term alcoholic as well. Because it, yes, I understand it's a label, but also words allow us to understand things better. Like language gives definition to things. So I know it can be like a scary word ad. It can be a scary word. Alcoholics is scary word, especially for people who aren't those things. Right. But it's like, for me, it's so liberating. Like, wow, that's it. Yeah. That was it. That was the thing that was wrong. I'm a fucking alcoholic. Yeah. Like, woohoo. Yeah. We got to the bottom of it. Thank God. That's that's awesome. Awesome. Woohoo. Woohoo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We figured it out. God, now we can like get to working. Now we can fucking get on. Now we can figure our life out. Yeah. And now we can reinvent ourselves. Yes. And yeah. And I think that's why I'm just very open always, always with the fact that I'm an alcoholic. And again, you can't unpickle a cucumber. So once you are, you are. Yeah. And that's OK. Yeah. That's OK. Yeah. That's great, actually. Yeah. Now I know. I think it's very beneficial whenever you're open about it. Mm-hmm. Right. Like, I'll tell everybody that I'm a recovered drug addict. Yeah. Right. And when I first was told that I was a drug addict, I was so offended. Mm-hmm. A cop told me, oh, you're a meth addict. And I was like, how fucking dare you? Yeah. I'll kill you. Yeah. And then I had to, like, I went back to my hotel room and started smoking meth. Yeah. And then I was like, you know, I don't have a car on my house and I have nothing. I'm in a hotel room smoking meth. She might be on to something. Yeah. Right. Now fuck her. She's not on her shit. No. Fuck her. She's just being judgmental. Well, that's how I felt the first time when I relapsed. I mean, that first time I tried to get sober, I just was not accepting of the terminology. I was like, no way. I'm not an alcoholic. That word's so weighted. Hell no. And then later I'm like, you know what? That word's actually really helpful. Yeah. Did you, did you, was your idea of an alcoholic like mine? As a drug addict was someone that was under a bridge. Yeah, totally. Like that wasn't me. Right. Right. Like you're talking about them. Yeah. You're not talking about me. It's the others. It's the other people. Like I am a functional. Functional. Yes. That was the thing. I think that I, because I was functioning, I was just always like, no. Not me. Did you? Yeah. So I got a question about the, the show intervention because I was obsessed with that show. I would watch it and like the mom getting, I was too. I kind of think they remember that now. Mom getting bunny hopped by her kids in the front yard and she passed out drunk. I don't, I, I honestly don't think that that did wonders for people's perception of what an alcoholic or a drug addict was. Probably not. I mean, because that was, that was so like hardcore. Like when you were watching those people in those places, whether they were heroin or I'd like to go back and watch them now. Yeah. Kind of through the, the new lens that I have. Well, even you described an animal. So like how, how it was set up, it was the animalistic. Yeah. We're capturing this like animal. He said bunny hop. Like, yeah. Like, yeah. So I think that's kind of like the concept that was around. I mean, we all know that like society kind of set the tone of like what a drug addict should look like, especially through the nineties. So this is your brain. This is your brain on a crack. Exactly. But it looks more normal than what you would. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. It looks way more, it looks way more, what are they called functioning? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Probably nine out of 10 people. Yeah. You know, people are kind of amazing. They can function. Do you mean a lot? It's insane what some of them like I could function on meth, but there's no way that I could do it on pills or heroin if I ever did heroin. Like I've took a Xanax like twice. Yeah. And I took like a quarter of a quarter of a quarter. Oh, yeah. And I was fucking out of my mind. Yeah. I'm super allergic to like those kind of drugs, that kind of drug. Yeah. But I've seen people just pop four bars Xanax. Oh, yeah. And be able to fucking go about their day. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, that is fucking insane. There is no way I could do that. Well, yeah. And to speak of memory, I mean, those people like, whoo, no memory. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I've also seen people that are completely fucking drunk. Oh, you would not know that like, I know that you're drunk because I've just sat there and watch you take 12 shots, but you're able to function and move. Like my brother's a cop. And he said that he, he, it amazes him sometimes when he pulls people over and he has them do a breathalyzer and they breathe like 2.0 or whatever, fucking 1.8. Yeah. And he's like, you would never think that this person like, I think it's a waste of time that I'm even having them blow. And then, and they're so fucked up, but they're able to just go about it because they've been doing it for so long. Yeah, yeah. I wasn't like that, like, I would still, like, somehow get around and do things. Like, people knew I was wasted, but I was still just, like, out there, trudging along, and browning out, and brown back in, I'd be like, oh, here I am. You know, just still, out there, still here, doing it. But yeah, I think another thing too is like now, I feel like people think, oh, you get sober and then things are like perfect or whatever. And life is still life. So I mean, I was engaged, I ended in engagement. Like there's still like trials and tribulations and there's still heartache and there's still deep sadness. But now I'm just able to manage that in a way with such grace and feel it. You're able to feel it. That's really what it all boils down to. And I know how to process that. And I have the tools now to process that. That's a good point. Easy to process it. Kind of when you're sober, if you face it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm saying if you do the work to get there. Right, right, yes, yes. And the step work and. There's no way you're gonna do it. Yeah, yeah, of course. But that's just before you had all those tools to feel that, let it come over you and face it head on. Was there something, I'm glad you mentioned that because like people, I used to think the same way. If I get sober, my life's gonna fucking be amazing. And it is. But there's still some days, like this month has been one of my hardest months I've ever had, right? I had surgery, I lost two friends in the program. And then like every other thing, because I had surgery, I can't work out. So my mental is not like working out so big to me. It's such a big deal. Absolutely. And like there's just all these little different things that are falling, I'm like, just stay grateful, be grateful, be grateful, right? Was there something early in your sobriety that happened that normally would have took you to go get fucked up? And you was able to just sit in it and deal with it and then realize, holy shit, I can do this. 100%. Yeah, I couldn't recall the moment. I can recall the day. Tell me, talk to us about that. Because I think that's such a big obstacle. That's like, that's a chip that someone should give you that you don't get, right? It's that memory chip, it's that piggy bank chip. What was it? So again, this is, I'll always have such gratitude for sober living, even if I have some of my qualms. So I never stopped dating. Again, I'm not like the best AA. Yeah. I gotta fill some time somewhere. I gotta get some free meals somewhere, fuck. I'm bored. I'm a cheap date, I don't drink anymore. Yeah, exactly. No, exactly. And I was always very honest and I, whatever. So I'm seeing this guy who I had seen before being sober. And definitely we had a toxic dynamic, but I was like, well, I'm sober now. I believed it was me. Yeah. You know, I'm sober now. I fixed myself. Yeah, things are gonna be great. I mean, he even moved me into sober living actually. So anyway, he moves me into sober living. He's like a big BMX writer. And so he has to go on a tour or whatever. And he leaves and basically just like never contacts me again. And I'm thinking that we're like, he just like it moved me into sober living. Fucking ghosted you. And it was just like, he had called me from the airport and was like saying weird stuff, but he was already drunk himself. So I'm like having so much empathy for this person. So I'm like, oh, you know, I just, yeah, I just, I went through my darkest time. He's in his darkest time. And then yeah, so he ghosted me basically. I don't hear from him at all for like almost a month. I guess, I guess I was probably living in sober living for a month. Well, I run into him. I run into him out at cosmic coffee. And I walk up and I'm like, I won't say his name, but I'm like, oh, and then I look over and he's, I can tell he's at a table and there's another girl there. I, you would have thought like I caught my husband with my best friend, but it was just like, it was so fresh, you know, like I was just like this new person. And I was feeling all my feelings and devastated. I mean, in that moment I held it together. I got to the car, balling. I get home to sober living. I remember I opened the door and I just like, fall to the ground. And the girls are like, what is it? I'm like, I'm shotter. Yeah. I'm shot, get her. And yeah, that is 100% something I would have. And you got through it. And I got through it. No, without drinking. Without drinking, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But no, stuff like that, I think that's like heartbreak. I mean, those are just like normal things. They still hurt. I think they hurt even more. Yeah, exactly. Because now I can't get high from it. Right. And now also I think there's that like, aspect of the way I'm my best self. Yeah, right? You don't love me? I'm my best self now, what the fuck? And it's like, yeah, I mean, that just happens. That's life, that's normal. But now you probably move past it way quicker. Way quicker, yeah, yeah. Again, I ended a whole ass engagement. Right, yeah. After that, not long ago actually, and I just know it was for the best. But I mean, things happen, life happens. Life still happens. But I get to show up as my best version of myself now. And that wasn't an option before because my brain was just so hardwired to go immediately. I can't fill this. I don't want to sit in this. I'm going to go get wasted. Yeah, that's a great point. I tell Destiny all the time, like, I know that I've done a lot in life, but you're getting the best version of me. It doesn't matter what, if I've been with this person or that person or they got me when I was 25 or 28, they didn't get the best version of me. You are getting the best absolute version of me right now. 100%. And I'm still, I still have a lot of problems. Always a work in progress. Always. You're still human. I just told her just a second ago, I'm sorry, sometimes I'm still a dick. And sometimes I am. Sometimes I still don't know what to keep my mouth shut. Yeah. And sometimes I still have to separate myself and go talk to God and tell God, please just take this one for me. But I'm still the best version. And it's the same with you. You got missed out. Yeah. Missed out. Thank you. Best version. Yeah. Go find better. Good fucking luck. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I always say. Good fucking luck. Good fucking luck. That dude is fucking miserable right now because of that, just saying yes. That's where we'll end this thing. Okay. It's right there. Good fucking luck. Good fucking luck. Bike rider guy. Fucking. Good. I love it. You know who the fuck you are? Yeah. Look at her now. Two addicts and a moron. Yeah. That's awesome. I'm so glad. Well, thank you so much for coming by. Thank you. This has been amazing. And I really appreciate it. You've extended a yoga visit. Yeah. Y'all need to come, come to the studio. Luke. Hey, well, we gotta wait for his guts to get back in. So my girlfriend, she really has been talking about doing yoga and doing it on her own. Oh, cool. At the house and I'm like, I think it'd be better if you went and got the community sort of vibe. I think it's great to have someone guide you. This is what I've been trained to do. Yeah. And also I feel like it's my calling. But I mean, of course you can do it on your own. Do it, do it always. But I think it is a cool experience to be able to have that direction from someone who truly knows. Me and Destiny will come. We were gonna do orange theory. No, come to orange theory. Yeah. Unless you want to sponsor us orange theory. We're going to say fuck you again. Where do you do yoga? I do yoga, yoga East Austin. Okay, yoga East Austin. I teach a couple of different styles now. I just got certified to teach a second style. I teach rocket as well. Yeah. You can tell me space rocket. I don't know. I don't know. There's so many intricacies to it. I just know hot yoga sounds like it's gonna be fucking hot. Yeah, it's good. But I will say if you're really resistant to it, you should probably lean in. That's like in yoga, I would say if it's a thing that you're most resistant towards, it's probably for a reason. You might want to lean in. I'll try it. Fuck it. Let's go, we'll do it together. I'll wear my spandex. Joe, will you come and do some camera work? Watch our dumbasses try yoga with you. I think it'd be great. That'd be great. I think that'd be really good footage. That'd be funny. We could definitely have some space in the studio. Oh, for sure. Let's do it. As long as I don't get the sweaty and the crack in my ass. No, I want all of that. Like I want like the whole deal. So we are going to do that. Okay, cool. Yoga East Austin. Yes. We're in. We're in. Well, thank you so much for coming. This was a great episode. How do people find you besides yoga East Austin? Like your Instagram. My Instagram is where I'm like, where am I looking? My Instagram is. Here, here, here. And you want to. Right there. Oh, okay. Yeah. My Instagram is devinpage. And yes, I also teach at yoga East Austin. Teach many classes there. And those are the most viable ways. Let's go. At the page. Yep. Let's go. Thank you again, Devin. This was awesome. Thank you. Yay. You made it. Later everybody. You got to sign the wall. Okay, yeah. Like, subscribe, comment, please comment. We haven't been getting a lot of comments lately because, well, I ain't going to say why. You're going to comment on, oh. No, no. We're just, let's just say we're very popular in the country of Mexico right now. Oh, okay. Very popular. Yeah. Super popular. But we're coming back. We're going to. We're coming back. Yeah. It's you, it's you as the new Mexico and then the UK. All right. Let's go. Let's go. Well, to Annex and Moran. Love y'all. We're out. Love y'all.