Debunking (Progressive) Lies About the Bible and Slavery | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Welcome to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howerton. We're so glad you're here. Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Jesus, live free, and make a difference with their lives. And this weekly podcast is all about helping you do just that. Each episode is a deep dive into the word of God, tackling life, culture, and faith with truth and clarity, so you can be equipped to live free in Christ. Thanks for tuning in. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode and follow us on all our social platforms to stay connected to everything happening with Live Free. Now, let's dive into today's episode. Hey ladies and gentlemen, welcome to, wait, wait, wait, drum roll please. Episode 50 of Live Free. Carlos has resigned. Oh, he's in the right. What the hell is this joke? Where is Carlos again? Colorado? It's on vacation in Colorado. Colorado, yeah, he's in Colorado. Carlos. Ornesto. Oh. That's right. Wow. Which again, as we were talking about before, it sounds so much cooler than, oh yeah, I'm Paul. Josh and Paul. Yeah, and there's Carlos. Carlos. But hey, Live Free is 50 ladies and gentlemen. That's awesome. I know man, this is pretty cool. And obviously for the 50th episode, we had to bring Jana. Oh. Jana. I'm excited to be back. 50. I'm excited to be back. You're not 50, the pot's 50. No, I'm not 50. I'm not. Good clarification. I'm going to say, I'm going to point this out. Will you toss up the screenshot of the, so when Jana comes on, I mean, it's the view counts. Look at this. Our most downloaded episode ever was when Jana came on. Obviously not surprising. It was the sex episode. Well, it was the topic. That's what, yeah. That's what I got. Yeah. The preacher joke is, anytime, there's two things when you preach about them. A tennis goes through the roof, sex, and the end times. And so the joke is, someday I'll preach about sex in the end times and we'll break all the records. That's right. There you go. That's great. But there it is, man. It's almost 260,000. That's crazy. Views on YouTube. We just got to have the animal often all the time. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Like I said, but it was the topic. It was the topic. Carla. I'm differential with Jana. I will say, no, we can't bring them on camera, but Jana and I got our rooted. We do. Oh, it's so fun. We got right over here. We got, no, I will say these, we got some rooted group members in here. They inform me that, so they were telling me that live podcast recordings are a thing. And I said that sounded really boring and dumb. And they were like, essentially they said, that's just because you're old that you think that. It might be. I mean, I'm not. Is that right? That's right. Because we're geriatric millennials. Molly says no. Marla, no. Maybe I'm wrong. Okay. I will say Callisto over here. Can I tell them what you did at our house? All right. You're allowed to talk. You can say. So at our, this is true story. So I wish I could pull up the picture. Do you want to tell them, tell people what they did? Whoa, wait, let me do this real quick. So that everybody's like, this podcast is getting long and boring. So here's what we're going to talk about. And then we'll tell what, how these people messed with our living room. So here's what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk at 24. This is a really heavy discipleship deal. We're going to talk about because of what's in X-24, we're going to talk, doesn't the Bible condone slavery? And this is a, that's a super interesting discussion. So we're going to hit that. And then Jana, after we kicked a bit of a hornet's nest last week talking about men and women and voting patterns. And then Jana at home had thoughts. And so Jana was like, get me on. I did not do that. She did not do that. So we're going to talk more. We're going to talk feminism while women vote left, men vote right. And that divide keeps getting wider and wider. What are the ideological reasons for that? And what are the biblical reasons for that? Which is really interesting. But before we do that, Jana, what, what did, how did these people desecrate our living room? We're here, Calista and Marlon. Well, I don't think I would say desecrate, but it actually kind of segues into what we'll talk about a little bit, like procrastination. So I have, Look at her, pro. I have had, I redid one of our book cases. And so I added some, some new picture frames. And they've been sitting there for months without pictures because I want to order from a specific place. And I just haven't placed the order. And so they have seen for months that I have no pictures in these picture frames. So they lovingly brought pictures of themselves. And so now they are on our big face. They snuck them. Actually, we're going to put one up right now. So Trinity, I'm dropping this in the, so we, that's one of them. So they, they covertly stuck pictures of themselves in our, that's awesome. So here's Kalista. We just turn around. There's a glamour shot of Kalista. And the funny thing is they, because it's been empty for so long, they didn't think I'd notice. And I'm like, well guys, every time I walk by it, I'm like, oh, I've got to put pictures in these picture frames, but I just don't do anything about it cause I'm procrastinating. Kalista, you can tell me later if we have, if we need to censor that on the podcast. She says we're fine. That's great. So we're going to talk a bunch of things. Also, so on social this week that y'all decorated for Christmas. Oh yeah, we do. It's officially Christmas season in the Howardson House. We are always early decorators, but we've gotten later over the years. It used to be, it used to be earlier. We used to decorate early. We used to decorate Halloween night. Okay. Yeah. And then the kids always wanted early. I will say, this is a 20 year streak was broken this year. Yeah. So he promised me when we were first married, we will never have Christmas lights. I did say that. And we're getting Christmas lights tomorrow. Oh, it took her 20 years to break me down. That's a big thing. When we got engaged, this is a true story. I didn't negotiate for much. The only thing I negotiated before we got engaged is I was like, hey, here's the thing. I will never ever do Christmas lights. But you were really mean for you to put them up correct or are you meaning you didn't want anyone to do them? Put them up or pay for them? Ah, well, excuse. I put them up for the first time a couple of years ago and I almost did a Clark Griswold and died. And I was like, I haven't really done it since then. But zero judgment. We were done the opposite. We used to be later. I grew up in a strict after Thanksgiving family. And then it's kind of slowly correct. Back this year, my kids were like, well, hey, we could put up the Christmas tree and then put a sheet over it in October and pretend it's a ghost. Oh. And I was like, well played, but no, not doing that. So we took it down on Halloween and then put it up the next day. It was good strategically for sure. Yeah, definitely. Speaking of Christmas, we got Christmas at the movies coming up, everybody. We do, man. That's a weekend after Thanksgiving, November 29th and 30th. Here's the hint. Like you don't want to miss, like you would hate to be left behind at home and not see it kind of thing. Of course, I could be joking about that. It might be a false clue and I'm sitting on a throne of lies right now. A little bit of an allusion to another Christmas movie as well. I see. But last week we did a giveaway where people had to put out their guess and we had a lot of guesses when we picked a random winner from last week's giveaway. I don't know how they're gonna go wrong on this. I mean, I think this one's easy. You gave a really, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but our winner of last week was Efan0224. So we get in you a free house. How do we know those are not bots? Oh, that's great. That's a great question that I don't have a great answer to. It feels body to me. I had a picture, but now bots probably have pictures. So anyway, so let's get into it. So yeah, comment on the YouTube video. Just hit a comment right there. We're gonna pick a winner that is not a bot, hopefully. And then we'll send it out. Yeah, it's working, it's working. We'll send this to you. Comment your favorite Christmas movie. Ooh, good one. Comment your favorite Christmas movie. And then last thing, and then let's get into Act 24 and talk about Jesus in the Bible. I did, somebody left this in the pod studio. This is literally Peanut M&Ms from Air Force One. No way. Yes, dude. Oh, wow. So Lake Point Dude, like hang on. Yeah, Mike Anderson. Lake Point Dude, Mike Anderson works for some like supply. Let me get this guy this right. He works for, it's a military deal in Roy City. And he get, he, I guess they help supply concessions for Air Force One. I guess President Trump likes Peanut M&Ms. I don't know. And these are Air Force One Peanut M&Ms. That's cool. That's pretty special. I'm gonna have one right now. Please do. Paul, you wanna set up Act 24? Let's start talking, we're gonna talk Act 24. We're gonna talk, doesn't the Bible condone slavery? Then we're gonna talk feminism and voting gender divide. Setting up a little bit while you're getting a presidential M&M. Yeah, so in Act 24, the apostle Paul is on trial. But this time when he's on trial, it's not before Jewish leaders, not before Jewish tribunal. This is before like the actual governor, Roman governor of Judea. And he's really on trial for his life in a sense because he's being charged formally now with sedition and inciting riots. And the job of a Roman governor, his name is Felix, is to put that down. So if Paul is feeling guilty. Not the cat and not Hernandez. That's exactly. Not Felix, cat, not Felix, Hernandez. This is Felix, we can talk more about just here in a bit because he is gonna. It's hard to open. Go ahead, sorry. That's the thing, now you're good. And so yeah, so he is on trial. And if he's found guilty, likely that Paul is gonna lose his life, cause that's what they did to people that incited riots. That was where our sermon was this week. Anything that was left out of the sermon or any go to. A bunch. So there's a lot under the hood on this one. And then let's get in. So a few things. So just like a previously in the book of Acts, like previously on 24, you know what it is. So obviously, Acts 23, there's the 40 dudes that the Jewish people, essentially view Paul as a heretic. So 40 dudes, we hit this on a pod when I was in Gulf Shores and the window cleaner was on the, I was really glad I was dressed when that happened, by the way. 40 of the Jewish guys, they essentially form a conspiratorial plot in Acts 23 to try to kill Paul. Interesting little side note, some historians and biblical scholars think those were the Sicario, which is where that old movie, well, they were called the Sicarii, which is where the old movie Sicario that you should not watch with your kids, that came from. They were like Jewish dagger assassins. So then interesting little fun fact is of all people, it just so happens that Paul's niece, right? Is it niece or nephew? Nephew, nephew. Paul's nephew hears about it, tells Paul, Roman government loads him up, essentially sticks him in the witness protection program, surrounds him with 470 soldiers, takes him to Caesarea, all right? So that gets us in Acts 24. Now there's a few things that are under the hood here, you already hit this, this is with Felix, we're talking about Felix here in a second, because there's a lot of really interesting stuff about Felix that we'll get into here. Governor Judea, if I understand this correctly, he's occupying the exact same governing position as Pontius Pilate. So like literally the exact same position Pontius Pilate was in, this guy is in. If I'm understanding this correctly, Governor of Judea, this is why we're gonna talk, doesn't the Bible condone slavery? Because Felix, very interestingly, is the only person in all of Roman history was a former slave. Yes. So former Roman slave becomes governor of this enormous region, which by the way, highlights some of the differences between American Chateau slavery and historical Roman slavery during biblical era times, which will, as you will see in a few minutes, help us answer the question, does the Bible condone slavery? So we'll get to that in a second. Couple of things here, married to a chick named Drusilla, this little side note, kind of fun fact, Felix was married twice, both times to women named Drusilla. I didn't know that one. Yes. He had a type. Okay. He had a type. He liked a name. He liked a name. He was into Drusillas. Couldn't have been many, I feel like. I don't know, dude. I don't know if that's a call. I don't know. So you got that. All right, let me speed this up because they're, they're so, like this, this is the type of passage, why this podcast is this? Cause there's so much you can't put in a sermon. So a few things here. Number one, if you, dude, I should have screen shot of this and put it up. If you're reading your Bible and you're paying really close attention, I'm gonna look at it right now. You'll be reading, yeah, yeah. So it's in my translations, literally right in front of me. Tell me if this is in your translations. So you're looking at the page. You got Acts 24-6. You see it? Yes. What is the next verse in your Bible? Acts 24, what? Eight. Eight. Eight, eight. So all three of our Bibles as printed go from Acts 24-6 to Acts 24-8. Now the reason for this is you'll always see a little footnote because it says this, Acts 24-7 is emitted for most modern Bible translations such as the NIV, NRSV and ESV because it does not appear in the earliest Greek manuscripts such as the Codex, Sinaticus, and Veticonus from the fourth century. It says it was likely a later edition from the third, ah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, but here's what I wanna point out is when you see stuff like that, some people will see stuff like that and they'll read biblical critics that are like, your Bible is just a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy and so you can't trust it. And actually, man, here's what I wanna point out. That should make you trust your Bible a whole lot. Yeah, definitely. Because every single Bible you're gonna read, there, it's so rare for there to be a textual variant like that that it literally pulls the verse out down to the bottom to note for the reader, hey man, this was likely a scribal edition and I just think that's very interesting. Yeah, it shouldn't fill you with doubt, it should fill you with confidence that we have nothing to hide. And part of this is what people need to keep in mind is when you have little things like these, it's never going to alter major doctrines. So anytime there is any kind of a debate or hey, we don't have the earliest manuscript that says this versus that, it's never over, oh, Jesus was God, oh no, he wasn't. It was over details and things like that. So to your point, it should fill people with confidence that we actually have enough of the early manuscripts, by the way, far more than any other ancient manuscripts. Now that's a podcast. Far more so that we can literally be 99.9% confident that what we have is in the original place. Yeah, yeah, right there. It's done, the manuscript, yeah. We got Lee Strobel coming to Lake Point in a couple of weeks, like that's Lee's fastball. The manuscript evidence for the reliability of the New Testament, I seriously, I think if I remember right, it's something like there are 300 times more manuscripts from within a lifetime of, ah, I'm gonna get this wrong. There's a whole lot. It's like in a little bit, we'll actually do a quote by God named Tacitus. We have manuscripts. I got that next. And if I don't trust the Bible, I literally can trust no other ancient resource and really have it to say pretty much nothing else from history. Fact. All right, so you got that, that's pretty cool. Now, you got the, yeah, so the Felix guy, he's mentioned two things that are here that are like, hey man, the Bible really happened. So number one, this Felix dude, full name is, I'm gonna do my best here, Tiberius, Claudius, Antonius Felix. He is, the reality of him and the era of his reign is attested to by a first century Roman historian named Tacitus. He was a Roman historian. There is a Josephus who's also a first century historian that also confirms it as well and talks about it as well. Is your quote, the Tacitus quote or the Josephus quote? Okay, I got the Tacitus quote too. You wanna read this Tacitus quote about this guy. Felix practiced every kind of cruelty and lust wielding the power of a king with all the instincts of a slave. Yeah, so you got Tacitus, by the way, if you're in first century Rome, it was like my, I had a Bible professor in seminary that described Rome as like basically a thousand year debauched orgy. So it's like, if a Roman historian is saying about this guy, guy was pretty debased. Like, it's bad. Rough. Like this guy literally to give people, usually more context, he actually had the high priest assassinated by the Sicari in the temple. Ducilla was already married at age 16, which was not so uncommon in those days to be married at that early age, but she was already married and Felix went to her and basically seduced her away with the help of a magician. And yeah, and basically promised her Felicity, kind of a play on name of his name of Felix. And so that's pretty good. So she was already married, he comes and entices her away. And so yeah, just a really immoral cruel man. Bad dude. Bad dude. Bad dude. So, and here's what's interesting. So again, this is like a mad explosion, I like the Bible really happened. All right, so number one, number one, on Drusilla. So you think about Paul's here giving testimony to Jesus. Drusilla, do you know her little family tree thing? Oh yeah, for her dad was King of Grippa. All right, so this is, dude, this is, I love so much of this, it ties the whole Bible together. So his second marriage is to this Drusilla, she's Jewish, she's the daughter of Herod Agrippa I, okay? Herod Agrippa I, there's a whole stinking bunch of Herods in the New Testament. Herod Agrippa I was the grandson of Herod Agrippa the Great. He's the Herod that the wise men in Luke chapter, is it Luke one and two? Oh yeah, it's either Luke or the Matthew account. He's the one that the wise men come to, and they, hey, birth of the king, that's the Herod that kills all the Jewish boys under the age of two trying to exterminate Jesus. So you think about it like the great grandson of the Herod who tried to kill Jesus, she's staring right at Paul going, Jesus was raised from the dead, and then you're gonna see in this passage, and you need to understand the reality of three things. He says righteousness, self-control, and the coming judgment. So you just think about like the heart of steel and love in the apostle Paul to stand in front of the great granddaughter of the guy that tried to kill Jesus, and go ahead man, judgment is coming, be prepared. And with that, this is actually the only unambiguous place when Paul is on trial that he refers to the resurrection of the unjust or the unrighteous, it's the only specific place where he mentions them, and it's because whenever he mentions both the resurrection of the just and the unjust, it's referring to the coming judgment. And so Paul's here on trial for his life. I didn't know that. He's on trial for his life, and basically it's like, hey, I'm on trial before you for my life, you're one day gonna be on trial before Jesus for eternity, and your eternity's gonna be at stake. And go, so, yeah. Now, Jana, I alluded to this for the pod, did you know that we have been where Acts 24 happened? Yes, and I am trying to visually. Okay, you're gonna get it immediately. Remember in my mind of it. Let me read it, and then we're gonna toss the pictures up. So, leading into Acts 24, Acts 23, it starts in 31. It says, so the soldiers, according to their instructions, took Paul and brought him by the night to Antipatras, I think you're pronouncing. Ba-ba-ba-ba, verse 33. When they had come to Caesarea, yeah, when they had come to Caesarea and delivered the letter to the governor, so that's Felix. They presented Paul also before him. Now I'm gonna skip down to 35. He said, I will give you a hearing when your accusers arrive, and then it says, and he commanded him to be guarded in Herod's Praetorium. So it notes Herod's Praetorium. Now, that's where we've been. It's one of the first stops when we go to Israel. So go ahead and toss the picture up, it's like on the seaside. So do you remember this spot? Yes, yeah, I do. This is one of the first, there's cats everywhere. You remember that? Yeah, on the outside. On that wall? Yeah, on the outside. And then when you get in, I don't remember as many. Never like cats, I thought. So Herod builds this big, so what you're seeing right here if you're watching this, and we're gonna zoom in and show you like where Paul was in a second. So we're gonna do a flash forward here. If you look up at the top right of that picture, you're gonna see a little amphitheater in two chapters. That's where Paul is gonna stand and give a defense before, is that a gri, who is that in two chapters? Yeah, before Agrippa. So we'll save that. It's really stinking cool because the exact amphitheater from Acts 26 is still in existence and the exact seat where Agrippa sat. He had like a VIP little boxy. It's still there. And that's a number one site. You know exactly that's where Paul was. So that's the amphitheater in Acts 26. You'll see on the left side, you see that big, it's like a little horse track. They would do chariot races there. It's like a little entertainment for the super wealthy governors. If you look on this little peninsula that comes out, so this is where it gets kind of interesting. Go to that next pic. So what this is, is that is where they are nearly certain, that is where when Paul in Acts 24 is actually standing in front of Felix, that's where the little hall was in the Herod's Praetorium that he would have been. So like, I mean like the apostle Paul stood right there and did Acts 24 like happened like right there. And then this is actually, from what I understand, fairly recent. Don't toss up yet Trinity. The next picture is their best guess. There's only one place from what I understand that looks like some kind of jail cell. So go to the next picture. That right there is almost certainly when it says they commanded him to be guarded in Herod's Praetorium, that right there is almost certain like, that's where Paul is in Acts 23 35. So man, I just wanna keep going back to the thing. Like, hey man, this is not a story. Like the Bible really happened. The real Jesus died for the real you. And if you give your life to him, he can really change it forever. This stuff really, really, really happened. All right, that's what I got. Only a little thing and this is insignificant, but I almost forgot to say it. So Drusilla and Felix have a kid and that kid later grows up and dies at Mount Vesuvius. Oh, that's right. Right. So again, it just goes back to what we were saying, is like these aren't like bedtime stories. That's right. And these are real people that are attributed not just by Christian sources, but by Roman sources, early Jewish sources, that these are real people that lived in real places and these things really did happen. Yeah, this stuff happened, man. Yeah, it's good. So let me ask you guys this. This like a major part of the message this week. So Felix, basically, so here's a story in Acts 24. Paul is with him for two years from what we understand right here. So Felix essentially and Drusilla are like intrigued by Paul. We also know from the passage, they were super just debased and they were honestly hoping he would bribe them. The Old Testament explicitly forbids bribery and so Paul's like, no man, I'm out. So he never bribes them. He talks to me about three things, righteousness, self-control and the coming judgment. We talked about why that was and I'm gonna sermon a little bit. Righteousness, essentially you can't be righteous on your own. You need an alien righteousness given you by Jesus. Self-control because both he and Drusilla were just very base and given to their desires, like I can't help it. And he's like, no, actually you can. And you're accountable for your actions and then the coming judgment. That's obvious. Now, where we landed it is what Felix ends up saying is one of the most tragic verses in the Bible. So Felix hears the gospel from one of the most annoying preachers in history for two years and he ends by saying this. He ends by saying, go away for the present when I get an opportunity. Most Bible translations say something like, when it is convenient for me, I will summon you. So think about this, he hears the gospel for two years, listens and is intrigued, but every single day he thinks maybe tomorrow. And because he always delays the decision from what we understand he dies in his sins. And just to put it very frankly, Felix and Drusilla are in hell right now because every day for two years, they delayed a decision to give their lives to Christ. Let me ask you all thoughts. Well, it's one of those things is like procrastination. You believe you always have tomorrow. Like tomorrow's gonna be there. So even though he was alarmed at what Paul was telling him, so there was something internally going on with him. Like he must have had a lot of questions and like, oh, need to think about this, but it didn't, I guess it just wasn't a big enough deal for him to like see the urgency of the matter. And so, so it's, yeah. So I just, I think that we do the same things in our lives. I think that the tyranny of the urgent. So things that, oh, that has to be done now. Like sometimes we let that get in way of doing the most important things in our life. Yeah, I think it's really important. Like, can we just like as disciples? Cause I just wanna keep leaning into this. The title of the podcast is live free, not listen free. So the whole purpose of this is for us to hasten and not delay to obey his commands. How do we live, how do we live free? So like, let me just ask a question. Like when you guys look at your lives and when people that are listening are looking at their lives, what do you guys think are the major things that cause people to put off the life and eternity changing decision of just obeying the Lord, doing the next right thing that God's put in front of them? It's a good question. I mean, I think one thing is sometimes the illusion of, oh, it's not convenient for me now. It'll be easier later, kind of a thing. And even just the concept of all do that one day. And I've heard this long ago, I wish I could say it was mine, but I'm not gonna take credit for it. Satan's favorite day is one day, God's favorite day is two day. Oh, girl. And so- Where were you during sermon prayer then? Right? And so I think there's this concept, even in Klesiasis hit this idea of like, obey God in the days of your youth. Like I'm always thinking, oh, I can get around to that later. I've got other things to do now. You even see this sometimes when Jesus is calling people to follow him and he tells parables around this. It's like, oh, well, I need to go bury this person. I need to go take care of this thing. With the thought of, oh, I'm always gonna have time to get around it. And that's one of Satan's favorite tactics, is hey, you can take care of that one day. Where God is like, today is the day that you need to step into that. So some of it is just the idea that, hey, I can get around to that later. I have something else that's consuming me now. That's something that I think is my mind. And then even like one thing is interesting that he's afraid here. Yes, that is interesting. It says that he, quote, became alarmed. Alarmed. As Paul testified to the gospel. And like in the original language, it is like emphatically afraid. So there's like fall balls and this is in fall balls. So he is alarmed. He is scared. And so it's interesting that that actually makes him for them procrastinate kind of a thing. And so I think along the same lines of, I think sometimes the reason we procrastinate is because whatever the step God is sometimes is calling us to take, there's fear. So like here, I don't know if maybe the fear was, oh wait, I'm a public official and this could lose me some stuff. I may actually fall out of favor with Rome and get removed from my position. Whatever it was, there's fear that kept him from doing that. And it is the same with us. That whatever step God is taking us to take, it's the same thing as Peter walking on water when Jesus calls him out to it. He looks at the wind in the waves, he gets afraid, takes his eyes off Jesus. And he can't then take his next step. Amen. So yeah, those are a few thoughts. Jana, beforehand we were talking about like, cause there is like men and women are created differently. They've been given different curses of the fall. And that's why there are gender specific commands throughout the Bible. And so it's like Satan will attack men and women differently. So you might be asking like, for women, what do you think sometimes can be the thing for women that it's like, that'll catch a woman and put her into spiritual procrastination? I do think there are multiple things, but I think one thing sometimes it's like wanting to do like the right thing or do it the right way or the perfect way rather than just taking a step, like just follow in a simple obedience. Well, I can't do it perfectly or I can't do all these things. So it's just like a delay of like just doing the right next thing, just do something. And so I always have a friend named Lynette that says, God works with a person who is in motion. So just take a step and then he's gonna just keep showing you the next step and just follow in obedience. So you don't have to have the whole vision laid out before you, you just take one step and then just keep following. Yeah, I like that, because sometimes I think one of the fear, it could be tied to fear others and some people want the whole picture and the idea of God's word is a lamp to our feet, but that means that I can only see the next few steps in front of me. I'm not gonna be able to see everything at one time. And I think that's like the most important step that I can take is my next step that God is asking me to take. Not the ones you might be asking me to take a hundred steps from now. Well, what is that next thing? It's something that might be another thing is I'm like, oh, I don't see how this is all gonna turn out. And you don't and you probably never will because that's why it takes faith. God is asking you to take this step of faith. And so you can't see the whole picture. Yeah, now, Jan, do you wanna, is this, is that a problem? Can I do that? Is that okay? All right, do you wanna get to, see, because at home you're a little more vulnerable, how that's played out in your life. Like about the bridge versus like point and what kind of resulted in delaying spiritual decisions. I think that like, if you get a little raw, I think it'd be helpful for most ladies. Well, I think, you know, back when we were still in Tennessee. So like at our church plan, it was kind of after I came off staff, it was kind of like, I don't know what to do. I don't know where to serve. I could just, nothing felt really comfortable in the moment. And so I just, I was kind of, is paralysis by analysis. I could just couldn't, I just couldn't get out of it. And then sometimes here at Lake Point, it's just like, there are so many opportunities and there are so many things that I can do. I can get stuck that I'm like, I just don't know what is the best thing. And, you know, I can, you know, at times, you know, struggle with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, we've seen that just like a, hey man, just like, and even, well, cause what we were talking about, I'm trying to fish it out of you. Oh, well, okay. Yeah, I mean, like I said, there are multiple areas where I think we're making sense. You keep going. But I think too, like sometimes with women, because there are so many things you can be doing, but it's kind of like, oh, I need to be really focused on my career. I need to climb the corporate ladder. Like I need to do this while I'm young. And then you think that, oh, you're always going to have time for your family. You're always going to have time to build a family that, you know, that you want to create. And you don't realize how fast the years fly. And so you procrastinate. Like we'll get family dinner next week or it's going to slow down in a month or two. And so you just procrastinate on focusing on what's most important because you have other things in your life that are kind of drawing you away from God's best for you. Yeah. It's like some of the things that are the most important are never the most urgent. And it's like, the tyranny of the urgent will actually force you to procrastinate and delay the thing that actually is the most spiritually significant. So it's like, for me and Jana, you know, it's for both of us, but especially for Jana, because her primary orientation is the home. And so it's like, you know, for family dinners a week, never feels urgent. But it's the most important. It is. And so it's a little stuff like that. Yeah. And we see the fruit of that. And then compared to whenever you go through seasons where it's busy and you have to put it off. And then you see the outcome of that too. So it's just, it's important to focus on what matters most in that season. Yeah. It's like maintaining God's priorities. If you get those out of whack, it becomes really difficult to quickly lean into the obedience in front of you. Yeah. And just you saying that, maintaining God's priorities. And just to remember, they are not burdensome to us. Just keeping that in your heart. It is not burdensome to do what God asks you to do. That's great. What about you, Pastor, is there anything that you've seen consistently take people like keep them from taking the action God has called them to take? Well, man, the biggest thing I'll say is not what I see in people is what I see in me. So what I see in me, cause man, I just want, I always want to lean into this is, man, I'm, ground's level of the foot of the cross. I'm in need of grace as much as every person here. Thank you, Jesus. You know, so I'm in it with you. The things that I see in me are, I think fear. I do not think it is an accident. The passage literally highlights, he was afraid. Yeah. We don't know why he was afraid. Man, what, hey, what, what, what am I going to risk if I take this action of responding to what God's doing in my heart? What relationship am I going to compromise? Man, could I, man, my, my, might I actually lose like all this wealth and the position that I have as a governor, you know, of Caesarea and, you know, honestly, this dude knew, I mean, Roman politics was game of thrones. So I mean, like he literally would have been like, dude, this could cost me my life. And, you know, I think there's that thing of like, the, one of the great misconceptions for Christians. I hate, it's like a pet peeve of mine. Haven't gone through, I'm not going to go into it here because I've hit it on other podcasts, but having gone through that season of like very aggressive the eight months of anxiety attacks and everything, you develop these little pet peeves where Christians say well-meaning, but dumb things that are not biblical. And one of those things that became one of those things for me was, you know, faith and fear cannot coexist. It's like, that's like, that's really dumb. That's a dumb thing to say. It's like, if I don't have any fear, I don't need faith. Faith is actually, it's the ability, I'm not going to emotional thinking about the time. Faith is the ability to go, I'm really scared, but I have a God, the Lord of hosts is greater than my fears. And so I'm going to step out in the middle of them and step out onto some, you know, stormy waves and I'm going to trust him in the middle of it. And so I do think fear is one of those things, you know, it's like Joshua chapter one is like a life verse for me. Joshua is stepping into the Moses role and God tells him three times, be strong and courageous, be strong and courageous, and why? It's because Joshua felt weak and afraid, weak and afraid, weak and afraid. And so I think fear, I will say January hit it, I think thoughtlessness, like there is a spiritual foolishness that is satanic and demonic that we live all of our days assuming that we're promised tomorrow. And listen, I've been a pastor long enough, we got people that are rooted groups praying for. I've been a pastor long enough to know that it doesn't matter if you're 24 or 84, one rogue cell in your body and you are not promised tomorrow. I am not promised tomorrow. I'm one bad driver on the way home away from my kids not having a dad, my wife not having a husband and me not having any more ministry. And so it's that thing that Satan wants to do in your life of Genesis chapter two and three, the lie he wants to sow into your heart is you will not surely die. And so there's a thoughtlessness that makes people go, man, it's good, I got tomorrow, I got tomorrow, it's really interesting. I tried to look it up. There are no historical records of how Felix died. We know he did. Yes. So there came a day where Felix probably thought, man, that thing that Paul said, I'm gonna get around to that someday. And then someday that next day never came. And he woke up and he faced exactly what Paul said, the judgment to come and it was too late. So I think thoughtlessness, let me do one, this is a little, actually let me do one more and then one that's a little awkward. Honestly dude, I think a big one for Christians or people who have grown up around Christianity is condemnation. And here's why I mean that. One of the greatest lies that the enemy wants you to believe is that God is a really angry dad that if you try to come back to him after a season of sin and a prodigal foolishness, that he's gonna be real mad and he's gonna be like, get out there in the doghouse and if you try to come back to him, that it's gonna be just castigation and condemnation. But the Bible says that actually, that God is a loving father. And the story of prodigal son is that, you know, it doesn't really matter. Like how long you walk away from him and how bad what you did was. What the Bible says is draw near to God and he'll draw near to you. And so it's kind of that thing of like, he's so loving and he's so super abundantly full of grace that he's going mad. If you'll just like wiggle a little pinky toe in my direction, I'll cover the rest of the distance. So it's like, you can walk away from him for years and decades and in one day, be back home with a father, but Satan wants you to think he's an angry, condemning judge instead of a loving dad. And it makes people go like, ah, man, I don't, I don't even wanna try. Are you thinking something, Jan? Yeah, I'm actually thinking the opposite of that though. And I don't know if that this is what happens. I see what you're doing. I think the hardness of heart because you hear something so many times and you become desensitized to it. And it just makes me think of Hebrews where it says today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion. And so it's like, is it a matter, it could be a matter of condemnation, but also it could be hardness of heart. Well, then there's that. Where is it in the book? It's Romans. I can't remember. It's early in Romans where it's like, do not presume on the riches of his grace. And essentially it's what you're saying. Cause some people will, it's not condemnation. They're like, oh man, I'm good. He's okay if I never come home, if I never disobey, it's like, don't presume on the riches of his grace. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is a thing, man. I think, you know, with that, a few thousand, but you both have just said, I mean, yeah, one of Satan's favorite tactics is in the moment, whether it's active disobedience, or one thing we have in the city, but it's so matters. We usually use this idea for raise with kids, but it applies to us too in a relationship with God is, the late obedience is disobedience. That's right, yeah, yeah. So we usually think of- Did you hear that, Howard team? Yeah, I've said that before. My kids as well. His delayed obedience is disobedience, because usually we think of, oh, disobedience, I'm actively living in a sin and a bad sin, but man, delayed obedience is disobedience. And so, but one of Satan's favorite tactics is when you're sinning, either by actively doing something wrong, or in this case, delaying your obedience, you know, Satan's tactic on the front end is like, ah, it's no big deal, God will forgive you. And the second you do it or later, it's like, oh man, that was a really big deal. That's right. That's exactly right, man. That is just, he loves that tactic. And I think to your point, man, now is the time. Don't like, if you're feeling the tug, step in now. And if you're, people might be listening or watching this and thinking, oh, but it's too late for me. Like, if you're still breathing, it's not too late. There's this proverb that basically says, not from the Bible, I think it's like a Chinese proverb, is the best time to plan a tree was 30 years ago. The second best time is today. Oh man. And so the idea is, if God is tugging at your heart, do it now, because then back to your end, if you don't, you may become hardened in heart and not do it. And the way I think about this, I heard one time basically that there's more symphonies and incredible works of art and incredible speeches in the grave than that were actually done ever. Because people had stuff that God had put into them, they didn't get out of them. And so I don't want to get to heaven and realize that there were things that had my name on them that I didn't step into. Amen. And when we're talking about this, our minds can go to these really big steps of faith, like, oh, God's calling us all to go to Mozambique, whatever, probably God's calling to do that and go for it. But also to put this on the ground level, it's also things like, I remember in the early days of my marriage where I felt like, oh, I need to pray with Amy, but I was afraid that I would sound dumb or that I wouldn't do it right. And I would delay it and now I'll look back. And again, I eventually started doing that, but it's like, I'm like, oh, all the times that I could have prayed with her. That's right. And so it doesn't have to be these big grandiose things. It can also be procrastinating on simple, small little steps of faith, of praying with your kids, of doing a bobble-sit with them, or any number of things that, as long as, if you're feeling that tug-n-tug, now, step into it right now so that you don't get a heart and heart. Yeah, so let me do one last reason that is a little weird, but I don't often say this. I felt like the spirit highlighted this to me today. To say on the podcast. And so there's probably somebody that is listening that I think when you hear this, you're gonna be like, oh, oh, he did that for me. So I will say this, man. So in this passage, you got Felix and then you got Drusilla. Drusilla, again, Jewish great-granddaughter of the guy that tried to kill Jesus. Probably of the two of them, I'm gonna guess, Felix was more open to the gospel than Drusilla. Because Drusilla, because of a religious and her family background, would have been gone, dude, if this is true, my great-grandpa is in, this ain't good. All right, so I'll say this, man, and as a pastor, I've seen this. There's a family dynamic that I think maybe at play in Acts 24 that gets played out, especially in men's lives. I do not see it happen as much from women to men. I see it from men to women. And here's what you'll have. You'll have a dude that was in a dark place in his life. He gets into an addiction or he was just a bad guy. Then there's like, almost like a savior figure girl that he starts dating or they're married and she sticks with him through a really dark time or she's the one that helps pull him out of the pit. Well, when that happens, because that's a reversal of the family order that should have taken place, he should have been leading, there's actually a weird guilt that settles in like hard concrete in the guy's heart. So then here's what will happen. If that girl is an unbelieving woman, what will happen, I see that happen very often. We have talked about a couple we were with recently is she almost becomes like honestly, like a demonic high priestess of the family and what the dude's doing internally is he's going, I need to get right with the Lord. But then he's going, but my wife is not a believer and she's against this stuff. For me to become a Christian would be to betray my wife who maybe is of another religion or is of no religion or as opposed to religion. You'd be like, man, for me to become a Christian would be to betray my wife and she's the one that pulled me out of the pit. And so there's this, it's almost like a demonic hidden inner vow where she's the high priestess of the family and he can't do what he knows the Lord is asking him to do because he won't betray the woman that pulled him out of the pit. That may be a little bit of what's the relational dynamics that are at play in Acts 24. And I'll just say this, man, if somebody's listening and there's a call to an action of obedience to take a step of obedience as a man or a woman to it's things like to share the gospel with somebody, to step into a calling that God's given you, to forgive somebody that you've been withholding forgiveness for for years or decades, whatever the thing is. If when you think about that, the first thing that pops into your head is someone that's not Jesus. And you're starting to reverse engineer your decision from the emotional reaction of a person that's not Jesus. That person is functioning like it, whether they are believing or unbelieving. I'm talking about how they're functioning, how Satan's using them. Satan's using that person as like a Satanic or demonic high priest or priestess in your life to keep you from following Jesus. So that's a little under the hood, but that is a very frequent reason that people, they hold off on doing what they know God's called them to do. Agree, disagree, additional comments. You're not gonna hurt my feelings. No, I agree. We've seen that in multiple people's lives. So yes. I've seen it too. And I think it's the reality of God calls us to love, in this case, like for example, a family, God calls us to love our spouses. But Jesus also says basically, if you're not willing to hate, and he doesn't literally mean hate, he basically means if you're not willing to prefer me to others, you're not worthy to follow me. And so there is this idea that you have course we're called to love our spouses and others, but I'm called to love Jesus more and order him first in my life. You know, I'll keep names redacted to protect the guilty. I'll be obscured details. So like honestly, man, I was at a, I heard about a pastor's conference one time where a pastor, one of the most prominent churches at one time in America, that honestly has gone off the rails a little bit. And he said publicly in front of a group of pastors, they were talking about the whole deconstruction trend that happened for a little while. And he said publicly in front of a group of pastors, man, I'm gonna tell you this, if my daughter deconstructs her faith, I'm going with her. And I was like, bro, we literally have Bible verses for this. If you will not hate your father, mother, wife, children, even your own family, you cannot be my disciple. And so honestly, bro, let's finish this, let's move on and talk about slavery. This is a hard emotional gift shift. But honestly, man, like every Christian, this has happened to me more times than I wish it had. Every Christian has to decide, am I willing to lose friendships and relationships over fidelity to Jesus? And you better decide that beforehand, because when you are in that moment, the emotions will be too high sometimes for you to make the right decision, Jana. Yeah, and I just wanna let you know, hey, it's going to happen to you. There is going to be not just once, probably multiple times in your lives, you're gonna have to make that decision and it's a test. So be faithful with the test that God gives you. Amen. That's good, that's good. Let me put a bow on it. Every listener should be asking themselves the question, what am I afraid to do that I am uncomfortable having not yet done for the glory of God? That's good. You get an answer to that question, you're probably gonna know what the Spirit's asking you to do. What am I afraid to do that I am uncomfortable having not yet done for the glory of God? That's good, all right. Well, hey, before we jump back in, I wanna take a quick moment to tell you about something close to our heart here at Lake Point. It is something we call our annual missions offering. Every fall, we set aside a season of radical generosity where 100% of what's given goes straight to missions. And this goes to help plant churches in some of America's hardest to reach cities, strengthening local churches around the world, meeting needs in our own communities, and even sending students to come to encounter Jesus. And so here's what you need to know. Your giving fuels real stories of life change. And so to be a part of spreading God's love farther and faster than ever, text the word give to 20411 or visit lakepoint.church slash give AMO. Well, hey, Livfree family, together let's make this a season where our generosity moves the mission of Christ forward. Okay, Paul, Chagy, Paul C. So we have an example here, emotional gear shift. We have an example here of this guy, Felix. He is the only known person that originally was a slave in Rome and became a governor here. Now, there are passages scattered throughout both the Old Testament and the New Testament, Ephesians chapter six, others about slavery. And in some of your translations, depending on how the English translates it, there are even commands for how, quote unquote, slave owners, masters, should treat their slaves. Paul Cunningham, let's talk. Paul Cunningham doesn't the Bible therefore condone slavery? No. Oh, Paul, all right, man. That's all. No, let's talk about this one. I think it is. I will say that this, and people are gonna get this, anytime slavery comes up, you're talking to an atheist, or a Christian or someone friend. Wait, real quick, go ahead and farther. I will slightly disagree with you. I will say it depends what you mean by slavery. What you beat me to. That was literally about to, that was gonna be one of my first big points. I'm sorry, I got it. You get the ball, yeah, anyways, got the ball there before I got there. Anyway, what was I saying? Oh yeah. So, yeah, so one of the biggest things, that's one of the top three, in addition to what about the problem of evil? Like this is one that's used all the time, is hey, the Bible condone slavery, how do you get around this kind of a deal? Cause the language is there. But a key first step that we have to take is say, when the Bible uses the term slave or slavery, does it mean the same thing that we think it means when we're looking from a modern context? So we may use the same word, but mean different things. That's a really important distinction. So even knowing that in the first century, slavery was still bad there. Conditions of slavery were not great always, although it really depended house to house and what the nature of it was. But it was truly more like indentured servanthood, or being a bond servant. And that's why even some translations now will use the word servant instead of slave. Cause they're not meaning the same thing as American slavery or modern slavery. That's right. So I'm just gonna read Ephesians. Here's an example, like Bill Maher, we're gonna look at a clip. Oh, actually, hang on. Dang, play that Bill Maher clip please. Yeah, not too late. All right, here we go, Bill Maher. So this is a perfect example. By the way, I'm gonna, ah, sorry, that's my bad. I'm gonna have you stop this a couple of times. Okay, so here we go. Bill Maher. Version of that. Did Columbus commit atrocities? Of course. I will say, we need to do this around Thanksgiving. The quote Columbus committed atrocities thing is radically, radically exaggerated. Like some of the things that you hear him accused of doing are just outright lies. So we'll go back to revisionist history, we'll go back to that later. Is of course, but people back then were generally atrocious. I hate that. Actually, we paused. So let me just keep going on this. People back then were generally atrocious. So this is what C.S. Lewis calls chronological snobbery. Where what every age tends to do is every age tends to look backwards and judge people in the past by the morality of the present. I would just like to point out, a lot of people from back then would look at our era and go, they are atrocious. They would look at the families, they would look at killing a million children a year in abortive child sacrifice. They would look at, dang, I was, they would look at drag queen story hours. And the things that like are depicted in modern TV shows that are about to watch it like the wallpaper of our whole society is pornography. So first of all, it's hilarious to me that when people say that. So C.S. Lewis chronological snobbery, but let's keep going Trinity. Everybody who could afford one had a slave, including people of color. Okay, pause. The way people talk about slaves. Okay, so I'll point this out. I'm reading, I've mentioned like three times in the podcast now, I'm reading a book by Thomas Sowell. He's a brilliant black economist philosopher. The book I'm reading right now, actually nevermind, I'm not going there. That's, it would open a whole different thing. So Thomas Sowell, one of his things is he's like, hey man, the amount of revisionist history on how American slavery in particular gets portrayed, he's like, the history of it is revived with the express purpose of advancing a specific political ideology. So Thomas Sowell likes blowing that up. And by the way, the quote I'm getting right it's also on the screen from Thomas Sowell that dovetails what Bill Marge said. Hey man, like there were white slaves in, now obviously radically disproportion, I'm gonna talk about that in a second. Toss that a quote from Thomas Sowell. More whites were brought as slaves to North Africa than blacks brought as slaves to the United States or the 13 colonies from which it was formed. White slaves were still being bought and sold in the Ottoman Empire, decades after blacks were freed in the United States. So it's like, the kind of the history you'll hear is in fact, I asked our kids in the kitchen one time, I was like, I wonder how they'll answer this. I asked our kids in the kitchen one time, who invented slavery? Were you there when I asked them? I don't know for that conversation, but similar ones, yes. And by the way, we obviously talk about race a lot in our family, it's like, I'm totally desensitized to any weirdness around that because of, we talk about all the time in our family and it's very, very free and zero awkwardness. But we asked our kids and they go to a great school, like a great school, they just, so they picked it up, they were like white people. And they literally thought white people invented slavery, which is obviously- I didn't hear him say that. We'll get to, that's crazy. We'll get to that here in a second, but anyway, let's keep going. We'll talk about slavery these days, you'd think it was a uniquely American thing that we invented in 1619. But slavery throughout history has been the rule, not the exception, the Samarians, the Egyptians, the Greeks, Romans, the Arabs, British, the early Americans, all the way up through Arkeli. I believe I can fly. Yeah. Can I really listen to it at the same time? I don't know if we'll, this is weird for you, I don't know if we joke about it. No. The Holy Bible is practically an owner's manual for slaveholders. Whoopsie-daisy, okay, pause. Nope, nope, nope, nope, okay. So let's talk about this real quick. Is, does the Bible condone slavery? Is the Bible, Paul? I'm gonna ask you, but then I'm gonna answer. Is the Bible practically an owner's manual for slaves? So let me, again, here's where this starts. It depends what you mean by the word slavery. That word has such a wide range of usage throughout human history that it's honestly really hard to even talk about. So let me say a few things. There's a difference between what we as modern Americans think when we hear the word slavery, we think American Chateau slavery, midway passage, you know, that kind of thing. In, so a few things. Slavery meant something radically different in ancient Rome than Antebellum America, okay? So think about this. American slavery was number one, race-based. Number two, lifelong. And number three, it was based on kidnapping. The biblical word, I'm actually gonna read it here in a second, is a word we don't use in the English very much anymore, the word man-stealing. So here you go, race-based, lifelong, kidnapping, okay? Now, the New Testament is written in the Roman Empire. When in the Roman Empire, they use the word slavery, what we are not saying is that every way that they practice, quote unquote, slavery was morally good, that's not what we're saying. What we're saying is it absolutely was radically different in a few very important ways than American Chateau slavery. Number one, it was not race-based, that's really important. Obviously anything race-based, we have biblical commands against that. We're not allowed to do favoritism or prejudice. So anything there is a sin, okay? So number one, not race-based. Number two, it was seldom lifelong, I'm gonna come back to that in a second, very seldom lifelong. In fact, this dude Felix is the example. He starts as a slave and ends as a governor, okay? And then number three, in ancient Rome, there was different types of slavery, many of which were voluntary. So you're talking about things like indentured servanthood instead of being man-stealing-based, okay? So let me list real quick, in ancient Rome, this is what historians understand, there were basically five different ways that somebody could become a slave in ancient Rome. And Paul, you can interrupt me and talk about whatever you want to here, okay? Five different ways. Number one, sometimes people, this was very, very common. This is what you're referring to when it says indentured servanthood. Now that was under the category of the word, it's the word's due loss. So the Greek word that gets translated slave is due loss. Indentured servanthood fit under the category of due loss, okay? So this was a temporary indentured servanthood to pay off debt. So they didn't have bankruptcy in Rome. The no such thing as like Michael Scott, hi. Is it there? bankruptcy, they didn't do that in ancient Rome. Great reference. 40% of people will get it. I was willing to pay that price. That was worth it. It works, that works. That's great. Yeah, they didn't have bankruptcy. So if you had a debt you couldn't pay off, it was like, well, bro, you're an indentured servant for the next 18 months. And that was called quote unquote slavery. Number two, it was also very frequently a poverty solution. So sometimes an impoverished family, they would ask to become part of a person's estate and become an indentured servanthood to a wealthy family. In exchange, it was a barter. They would be like, hey, you give us a home, protection and provision, and we would like to become part of your estate as indentured servants, indentured servants. That was under the category of quote unquote, due loss and that person will be called a Roman slave. Number three, there were men that could be sentenced to galley slavery for crimes. So like some crimes that we would think of as death sentence crimes, they would sometimes go, hey, I'd like to actually make a judicial appeal to be a galley slave. So it's like, hey man, instead of getting hung, I'm gonna do my thing as a slave. Number four, prisoners of war were often forced into slavery, very common, very common age realm. And the number five, sometimes abandoned infants were taken as slaves. Now this is, bro, this is a tangent and this is a little Bible trivia. Who, isn't there a guy, oh yeah, it's Cordis. In one of the, and I won't remember which one, in one of the conclusions of one of the epistles, he's like, and tell Cordis, you remember that? I'm gonna have to look up at this, because now you're getting my mind going on. I'm pretty sure it's Cordis. He's like, tell Cordis that I said, hey, that's really cool, because bro, this will make me a little emotional. That's really cool. Don't sleep on the cool conclusions of the epistles, all the names. So Cordis, that was a slave name. Cordis comes from four, fourth. Literally, sometimes they would just name these children that were slaves, they were like, you're not even worth naming. One, two, three, four. And so that dude's name was Cordis, because as a child, he had been a slave. And here is the apostle freaking Paul. Oh, oh. Naming this dude is like, hey, make sure you tell Cordis. I love that guy so much, he is loved by God. And he had just been a child slave, Cordis. Isn't that cool? Yeah, that's great. That's cool, okay. So here's the implication, if you start boiling on it down. So some forms, so here's the question we're asking. Why in places like Ephesians chapter six, is it giving instructions to quote unquote, masters if slavery is always unjust? Well, here's the answer, here's one of the answers. Because not all forms of ancient Roman slavery were necessarily unjust. Exactly right. Well, and even to kind of contrast what the Bible says, to masters and of how to treat their people versus what ancient Greek and Roman philosophers said. Here's some things that Roman and Greek philosophers would have said. Aristotle said a slave is a living tool, basically a human piece of equipment. Varro divided tools into three categories, silent tools like carts and articulate tools like animals and vocal tools, which were slaves. Cato the Elder told farmers to work slaves hard and sell them off when they are old or sick, just like worn out livestock. And then all of a sudden you get Colossians 4.1 where it says to tell masters to treat their servants just and fairly because they have a master in heaven. That's right. Who's gonna hold them accountable. It says in Ephesians 6.9 not to threaten them because that was a common practice is that if they didn't get in line, like it was legal for you to kill your slave if they did not get in line. And so even places where it was legal, not the kind of slavery we're talking about, but legal slavery more like again indentured servitude, the command was nothing like in their culture. It was to treat them with honor, respect and dignity. And I could even make the argument that in Philemon, Paul is basically hinting to Philemon that you need to free on this. Yeah, I'm gonna get there. There is an argument that you can make where like all the ingredients to end slavery are actually in the New Testament. Yes, here's what a lot of New Testament scholars will say is that, okay, so Jesus said that the gospel would work its way through the world like leaven through a lump. So essentially, yeah, and that's what a lot of New Testament scholars will say is that man, all of the logical and conventional beliefs to erode and eradicate the institution of slavery, they're implicit in the scriptures and in the gospel. And it was like Christianity planted that leaven in the lump of the world and God knew this thing. Eventually it's gonna just do away with the institution. I'm only gonna jump out of the Bible for a second and then we're gonna jump back in so you can keep on your row here. But it's no, so we have to remember that when everything was written the first century, Christians did not have political power. So they couldn't have overturned the system if they wanted to. But then it's not a coincidence that all of a sudden when they began to ascend to imperial power or have influence in the empire in the fourth century, that everything immediately is overturned. Like for example, Gregory of Nissa in the fourth century says that since God made him in his own image, how can you buy a man and sell him? When you make him subject to another Lord, do you not become responsible for introducing a new master other than God? God said, let us make man in our own image. If he's in the likeness of God and rules the whole earth, who is his buyer? So he's making an argument around that time when Christians begin to empower that we need to do away with this thing. In 315 AD, Constantine outlaws branding slaves in the face. Why? Because they're in the image of God. 319. Constantine did that? I've never heard this. Yeah, 319, killing a slave equals homicide now, which again was unheard of in pagan Rome. In fourth century, Christian emperors began making freedom easier to get. Fifth century, they're restricting the slave trade. So my thing is, it's like, it's no coincidence that when Christians actually had the ability to change the system, the system changed. And by the way, it's the first time in history of human civilization that it happened. Okay, that's what I wanna get to. Sorry, I'm just ahead of you. No, dude, that's really important. So here's the question that you should, when somebody throws that in your face, if you're a Christian, Christianity can known slavery. The Bible can known slavery. One of the things that you just need to point out is, hey bro, who were all the people, they were the first people to abolish it. They were Christians. So like, we're gonna get to that in a second. So one little fun fact, again, I wanna dovetail this on Roman slavery, is many forms of early Roman slavery, again, voluntary, they live normal lives. They were paid going wages. Yes. This is really important. They were paid, okay? Indentured servanthood, hourly wages, all those things. Some of them were actually like in societally elevated positions. This is story enlist these. Doctors, professors, administrators, and civil servants were often slaves. And this is what this historian says, we're in quote unquote slavery on an average of 10 years. So again, it's not lifelong, okay? So a couple of other things I wanna point out here, and this is like, bro, this could be its own whole podcast, is this is what Thomas Sewell points out in that little quote where he's like, hey man, there were actually more white people that were taken as slaves to Arab countries than black people that were enslaved by the Americas. First of all, let me just say, all of it's bad. No one's saying, no one's arguing that, it's not that bad, no, all of it's bad, that's not what we're saying. But what people will do to advance like particular ideologies and goals, is to like zoom in on only white to African-American, American chattel slavery as like that's the only thing that's ever happened. When honestly dude, that's just like not a thing. So here's how you need to think about this. No, no, so here's what people say that will object to Christianity. They'll say, man, white American Christians were the ones that had an unjust slave problem. Bro, that's literally, that's insane. No, the entire world had an unjust slave problem. Literally every nation in the entire world, including every African nation, had practiced slavery from the beginning of time. Further, so what would have happened is that some of the world had gotten into the church. Now that is we must absolutely acknowledge is in the people that defended it from a Christian perspective, some of the world had gotten into the church. Further, here's what I wanna point out, it was Christians that led the abolitionist movements because of their biblical convictions and Trinamata set up. The first seven nations to move for the abolition of slavery were all, go to the next thing I was gonna show, they were all majority Christian nations. For the listener, pause and let this sink in. I don't want this to just slip past you too quick. All seven of the first seven nations in world history to abolish slavery were majority Christian nations. That's not a coincidence. So here they are, this is from Reuters. This is not like, I didn't pull this from like a evangelical Bible commentary. So you got, yeah, you got 1787, I'm getting old, bro. You got Britain, then you got Denmark, then you got Britain again right there. United States passes legislation. You got Spain, Sweden, Netherland, France. In that time, all seven nations are majority Christian nations. Now, if you wanna have fun, you can rock this. And the reason I'm not gonna toss this up is because I never tossed something, grok up without double checking it. But if you wanna have fun, it's actually even better than that. And when it comes to the track record of Christians abolishing slavery. So have a little fun. Take 60 seconds and pause this podcast and ask grok or whatever AI, ask it the question. If you treat all of the early American colonies as their own nations, what were the first 10 nations to abolish slavery? Bro, I don't got time to talk about this. The revisionist history around the early American colonies, they were just a bunch of white races. Honestly, it's just a satanic lie. Literally, the pilgrims in the Plymouth Colony, bro, this is like, this is the kind of thing you're like, what, you're like, when I say this, you'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, there's no way that's true. Yes, it is true. Go Google it. This kind of thing that you're never gonna hear in history class because it doesn't fit a narrative that is prescribed. Literally in the Puritan settlers of the Plymouth Colony, there was a man-stealing ship that was full of stolen slaves that birthed, that landed. That's a fancy way to say landed. That landed at Plymouth. The Puritan Christians in the Plymouth Colony realized that this was a man-stolen group of slaves. They arrested the guy that was the captain of the ship. They freed all of the slaves. Then they sent him back where he came from to commission him to the Christian courts where he came from to be tried for his crimes. Wow. It's like Christians honestly don't have a perfect track record. No. But compared to the rest of the world, I say this with complete integrity, the best track record. So I'm gonna read this and then you talk. So if you ask, again, do not take this as fact because you need to double check anything Grock says. But I've done this like 10 different times and it spits out almost the same thing every time. So if you treat all the early American colonies as their own nations, a lot of the constitutions of the original 13 American colonies, they had already forbidden slavery in their colonial constitutions. So this is how it lists them. If you treat all the early American colonies as their own nations, what were the first 10 nations to abolish slavery? Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, Haiti. So then you get to your first nation and there's a whole interesting story behind that. Chile, Uruguay. So bro, it's like, there's just a lot different that you would think. Yeah, and where did the pilgrims and people at Plymouth, what were they basing that off of? First on the law, but then also probably because they knew 1st Timothy, one, eight through 10. Now we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully. So that is a key thing. Because to your point, Christians throughout scripture have twisted the script, I mean, Christians throughout history have twisted the scriptures and they have used them for their own ends. And we would say to that, they are disobeying God's word. But it goes on to say this, understanding this, the law was not laid down for the just, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, unholy and profane, but then enlist this list of sins, for those who strike their mothers and fathers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers. That's the word that in old KJV would get translated man stealers. And so literally they're basing off of scripture, basing as you cannot do that. And if you're a thinking Christian, not only can you not steal someone, but you also, if I were to buy someone, that would stolen. I'm contributing to it, so I'm complicit in that sense. It goes back to when this is giving instructions to masters. This is not talking about this version of slavery. This is talking more about what we've talked about before and Dintred surveyed it and then he gives instructions for that. The other thing I would say is, if you just follow me for a second, is going back to the original objection, a lot of times people will say this to you and really what they're trying to do is say, oh, Christians are really bad people, or your God is a really bad God. And so this is similar to even when people ask me, especially if they're coming from an atheist to create an Asic background about, oh, the problem of evil. And then that question again, just follow me, I'm going through with this. When people ask me the question of like, oh, like an atheist, like, how can there be an all good and all powerful God in their evil exists? And now if they're more of an atheist, what I say is, okay, how about this? I will answer that question if you also agree to answer the question of the problem of evil. And like, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, here's the thing is, I have to explain how there can be an all powerful and all good God and there be evil in the world. You have to explain to me how you believe there can't be a God and you have a problem with evil. I have the problem of evil, you have a problem with evil. And here's what's gonna happen, is we're both gonna get to a place where there is gonna be an element of mystery, but then in that mystery, here's what I know, is you will never be able to do anything about the problem of evil. I had a God who has done, is doing, and will do something about evil. Okay. In the words of Eliana, clock it. So now you're like, what does that have to do with this other thing? Is that say this is like, to Bill Maher's point, I'm gonna trust that was a cool and good thing. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The Rudy girls say it's fine. How then this connects to this is like Bill Maher said, slavery has been existent throughout all cultures and civilizations and yes, there have been Christians who have done awful things and for that man, we should feel sorry and repent. They should specifically. But then what we also have to say is this, and can you explain how throughout this world and all of the world that Christians were the first to oppose slavery and were the primary ones who have dealt the death knell to it throughout the history of the world as well? Whereas pagans and people who do not believe in Jesus were the last ones to get on the train. That's my life. That's the thing I'll say. Yeah, bro. And I'm done. Yes, well, hang on. Trinity, I'm gonna throw this to you because this kind of thing like encourages the faith of Christians. Trinity, I'm gonna toss this to you. So like, so what you usually get is a guy like Bill Maher that's like, hey man, I'm an agnostic guy and man, you Christians have a bad track record on slavery. You're so terrible. What I wanna say is like, well, hey Bill, let's ask the question, how your atheism and agnosticism, let's see what the track record of that is in human history. Exactly. Well, what we got right here is we got a chart with all the people who have killed the most people in human history and like the first six of them are all atheistic, socialist, communist dictators. So it's like, hey man, let's ask the question, which worldview tends to result in care, compassion, and human flourishing? Hey Bill, it's not yours. It's not yours, Bill. So this is what I'm gonna point out. Let me do one last thing just to make sure that Christians understand this and then can we get a move on? And yeah, and then we can talk women in voting patterns. She is gonna have a blast here. So I just wanna point out, you can't read the Bible and think that like for instance, American Chateau slavery was permissible. One, these are little Bible references for people who are super nerds and wanna go look this up. Philemon 15 and 16, Paul's, he's returning a slave back to the slaves master. And he tells, it's Onesimus is the name of the slave and he's returning him back to Philemon. That's what it's called, Philemon. And he literally tells him, listen, I'm gonna read it. He tells the master in Rome, perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever, no longer as a slave, but better than a slave as a dear brother. Then you got Galatians 328. These are the verses that Christian abolitionists used to abolish the slave trade, William Wilberforce. Galatians 328, there is neither Jew nor Gentile. There is neither slave nor free, nor is there male nor female, for you're all one in Christ Jesus. First, Corinthian 721, the New Testament is urging slaves to get out of the institution. And if somebody is not enslaved, the Bible is urging them, don't participate in that institution. First, Corinthian 721, were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you. In other words, essentially it's kind of like, especially for people who had gone into debt and they were indentured servants, they're like, ah, did I do something bad? Should I not have done that? He's saying, hey, don't let it trouble you. Although, if you can gain your freedom, do so. So the Bible is like liberty, liberty, liberty. And then I'll point this out, last thing, man stealing that all of American Chateau slavery was based on is literally a death sentence. The Bible makes that a death sentence. Exodus 216, anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnappers possession. Deuteronomy 24-7, if someone is caught kidnapping a fellow Israelite and treating or selling them as a slave, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you. So fact-checking, Bill Maher, the Bible is practically an owner's manual for slaves. Wrong. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. All right, so now it's time to let Janna cook over here. I mean, in terms of just like, time to let her just do her thing when it comes to women voting and left leaning and all that stuff. So we're just gonna hand it over to you now and just let you go. All right, hang on, hang on. So we kicked a hornet's nets last time. We're gonna make this short because Janna and I are going to go on a date tonight. Are the kids already with mom and dad? They are. All right. So here's what we did last week. Go ahead and toss, let's toss the charts up. So it was after the Mamdani election and what everybody was noticing is there were two things, where I talked about immigration. The two things that made that election happen were number one, it was immigrants that primarily voted in Mamdani and that's a whole very complex discussion. But then it was really interesting. Go to the others first before that one, Trinity. Go to the ones that were like Mamdani election specific. We did the, there's the J. Jones and then the J. Jones chart and then the Mamdani chart. Yeah, there you go. Okay, so this is the Mamdani chart. Women aged 18 to 29 voted for Mamdani at an 84% clip. So I'm gonna go ahead and ask the question that we're gonna answer in a second. Okay. No, I'm not. All right, so women, women 18, 29, 84% clip. That's probably what Janna would have done. No, I wouldn't. No, no, no, no, no. I'm teasing. I'm teasing. Okay, let's go to the J. Jones chart. Okay, J. Jones, you got it again. The highest corollary in voting for J. J. Jones was the guy that threatened, like actually said in text messages that he wasn't joking, like wanted to assassinate his kids. Conservative politicians because they were fascists and their children. And he still got elected in Virginia. And it was women that voted for him. Same age range, 18, 29. 76. 76% clip. And then Abigail Spanberger, that was the same, it was a girl in Virginia, 81% clip. So then we did that, then we showed, and we're gonna have, we're gonna have to revisit this because it kicked a little bit of a hoarding nest. So then we showed this one. We showed this one, if, this is presidential elections. If only women voted in America, you would get the left chart, which would be an absolute landslide for a progressive candidate. 461 electoral votes to 71. If only men voted, it would be an absolute landslide for conservative candidates. 350 to 158 electoral votes. So it's like what people are noticing is like radically diverging gender divide on this thing. And then we go to that tweet. So this slide kind of went, I'm gonna have you black out the name of the guy that tweeted it because I don't know what kind of content that guy does. But this went like pretty viral. And this guy asked the question, I can't for the life of me understand why liberal women have become sympathetic to Islam, but despise Christianity. Now honestly, the data just shows like that's actually a thing. Like that is in fact highest corollary among all demographics, that's a thing. So the intelligent question this guy's asking is like, hey bro, like in like fundamentalist Islam, like women that aren't wearing burkas are gonna get beat in public. Fundamentalist Islam is like, it's not why I've submitted to your husbands, it's all women submit to all men. Death penalties for certain things that women do. So he's asking a very intelligent question, what in the world bro? What's going on here? So, Jenna, what's going on here? I don't know. We thought you were gonna tell us the answer. I don't know. I just, I don't know, I do not identify with that math. Like I just, I don't know, it's kind of, I do have thoughts. I do have thoughts. It's a little hard to get my mind around that, but I do have some thoughts. So I have three thoughts. So first I wanna start with worldview, because I think everything starts with, where's your worldview? So generally, whatever you believe is true about God, the truth of scripture, it's gonna be how you live your life and it's gonna influence everything you do. So Christians have a biblical worldview. So we're going to see and interpret every area of our life through the lens of scripture and how God finds it. Not through the lens of culture, not through the lens of personal opinion. So one thing about that math, I'd like, I wish it was broken down into, there's a way to know Christians as opposed to someone who wasn't a Christian. But if a person doesn't have a biblical worldview or they'll allow themselves to be persuaded to believe. Let me just pause. I've seen that broken down dead. I wish I had it. Christian women is very significant. Now, I think they, evangelical Christian women, then you gotta get down into white versus African American, white versus people of color. But among white evangelicals, it's still a women vote conservative in general. But if I remember right, it's actually not by much and it's considerably less than dudes. Okay. So you keep going. Okay. Yeah, so if someone doesn't have a biblical worldview or persuasion, because there's just a lot of persuasion with media and everything going on in your relationship. So if somebody's been persuaded to believe in biblical thoughts and I'm going there, I have a reason I'm saying that. So I'm heading there. It's a rejection of God's authority. His authority is getting replaced with whatever feels right or whatever a culture tells them. And so the reason, like I think this is happening is that people get into the place of rejecting God's authority on a topic, even if they would normally believe what the Bible says. It's because they have allowed toxic empathy to change their thoughts and change. So empathy in general is just the ability to understand and share the feelings of someone else. But empathy, it becomes toxic whenever it's manipulated. And so, I mean, you see it all the time. You see it in media. You see it with like how, I'll give an example in a minute, but just how a topic like abortion or LGBT stuff comes up, you're gonna see how they use that to manipulate emotions. And so you really have to- And are you saying that that works more on women than men? I do think that it works more on women because women are not all women. So I don't want every woman to be like, well, I'm really rational because I'd like to say, like, I agree with you. I think I try to really think rationally about that too. So, but I do think that emotions really come into play here, especially if it has to do with somebody you love. So someone who is going to normally, I believe the Bible, I believe what the word says, if they have someone in their life that they love, okay, let's just use the example of like LGBT. So someone in their life comes out, then they start to like hear everything that said, well, if you are really loving, if you are really loving, if you are really kind, then you're gonna be someone who affirms all love, all forms of love. And so then empathy gets hijacked, becomes toxic because then, well, I wouldn't be loving, I wouldn't be kind, like I- Women, they don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. And by the way, that's a good thing. And this isn't stereotyping, by the way. Not, I think it is, isn't it? Well, it is, but it's backed by research. Oh yeah, okay. It's not irrational. It's not irrational, this is backed by research that women tend to form moral judgments, moral around care, inclusion, protection of vulnerable groups, so many things you've been saying. So then if it's like LGBTQ, oh, we've gotta protect these kids, and if we don't affirm them, then they're- They'll commit suicide. They'll commit suicide and the thing. And so like you said, it's actually, it's using a God-wired instinct in females, but then hijacking it. Hijacking it. In the service of something that's not good. Sorry, keep going. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Definitely with just everything you said there. And so it's kind of like, what you start to see is that the mindset will shift, and it becomes like, I'm not gonna just support them. I'm going to agree. I'm going to affirm. And then you just, you see that change. And so I also think like take the topic of abortion. So we saw it all election cycle. Media is gonna take a horrific story of something that is truly atrocious that happened to somebody. Maybe they were raped, or maybe they almost died in childbirth, and they're gonna manipulate your emotions and make you empathize to try to get you to believe that abortion is good and it's healthcare. And if you really care about women's rights, you're gonna support them in the right to choose what they need to do. And so it's just, it's toxic empathy creeping in. I see that. Yeah. And Rook, notice what they do in those situations of abortions is usually they take one of the most difficult stories of a really rare, really rare unique case, but that's the only story they tell acting like that's the norm. Whereas statistics tell us that it is not the norm whatsoever. So even again, they play on the emotion of it and really try to use that to make things right. It's called centering the fringe. That's what they call, it's called centering the fringe. Let me take a fringe edge case and then center that as the thing from which we should reverse engineer all your thoughts about the whole thing. It's called centering the fringe. So yeah, so what you're talking about, Jana, is we've had Ali Best Stucky on the podcast before. And she wrote the, it's toxic. Yeah, toxic and I don't remember the subtitle, but yeah, great book. Strongly recommend. And by the way, so let me say something real quick. Like here's what we believe, some people may be going, man, it sounds like they're saying that women are worse than men. No, no, here's what we believe, that men and women are created, both created equally in image of God, are equally image bearers, but we do believe that they are equals, but they are not equivalents. So this is why what you get is they're given different functions in the book of Genesis. You'll notice that in Genesis chapter two, three, four, that they are given unique and distinct curses from the fall. So that's different, which is why in the New Testament, there are gender specific commands. Paul will go, hey, wives do this, ladies do this, men do this, husbands do this, because like I hope we can all just be rational and go, men and women are different. And which means they tend to sin different. I will just point that out. Now this is a whole different podcast and I'm gonna let you talk. You got something you're ready. But what I will say is they sin different. As a pastor, I will just gently point this out. If you go really hard at the sins of men, bro, you're gonna get, bro, people love you. I mean, listen, bro, it's viral. Like dude, you go, this is, you know, that stuff just chases. If a pastor even gently moves towards sins of women, you better just buckle up, brother. In fact, go look, it was like two years ago, on back to back weeks, we had Instagram reels where I went first, let me address something with men. And then the next week, it was like the exact same thing, both women. And if you go look at the comments, the comments on the first one were like clap, clap, clap, clap emoji, clap emoji, get in pastor. It was like all that. The comments, the other one are like dumpster fire. Yes. Like dumpster fire. And you were gentle. Which by the way, that drives Janna nuts. Yes, it does. That drives. Godly women, Godly women want to be pastored. Yes. Amen, I got, Godly women want to be pastored. Like don't rob me of the discipleship needed for me to become a mature follower of Jesus. Absolutely. Now what were you gonna say there? Well, as you were talking, it was making me think about, which I remember the exact sentence you were saying, women were created to be nurturers. And so, and I'm getting ready to hit it with my last topic on this, which is feminism. I want to hit that. I'll hit that in a second. But so women were made to be nurturers. And so kind of within feminism, we'll talk about that in a second. But rather than using their nurturing abilities that God put in you, that is innate. That's God giving gift on what is holy and righteous, which is you're focusing on your family, your husband, your kids. It's kind of in hijacked. And the nurturing is, you see it how women will nurture these causes. They'll be activists for LGBTQ, abortion. And I didn't even know about the Islam stuff now, but it's like they're using that in the wrong area. So dude, this is a bigger thing than people realize. All right, so we toss that tweet back up one more time, Trinity. So I was feeling sporty the day that I saw this tweet and I quote, tweeted it. And I responded to this dude. And so here, there are two, again, I can't for the life of me understand why liberal women have become sympathetic to Islam, but spies Christianity. So I think there's two things going on here. Number one, and this is sensitive, but it's like, you know, truth is truth. Here's a big part of the problem. I should have grabbed a graph on this. Progressive women, especially white progressive women, they don't have kids. They have cats. Oh, dang! Oh my gosh! Oh my gosh! Notice that was not Pastor Josh who said that. This is for the record, wanna say that out loud. It's so true! I mean, I'm not online a whole lot, but it's like all the pictures, it's true. Jason's like, thank you. All right, hang on. Okay, so let me keep going. Whoa, that was amazing. That was amazing. Listen, all right, here's the thing. This podcast is so great because people will hear me talking, they'll be like, man, you are really, man Josh, you're really conservative sometimes. Like, bro, if you could hear Jan at home, you would think I was tame. Yeah. And now they have. But now, but he hears the raw. All right, now hang on. Let me, oh, that was amazing. All right, let me answer this. So number one, especially white progressive women, they don't have kids. They don't have kids. But check this out. But they were still created as women. So check this out. They can't turn off their hardwired maternal instincts. You can't turn that off. That's biological. It's hardwired into creation. So check to say, here's what happens. This is what Jan was alluding to. In the absence of children, when you zoom out, I'm not saying, we're not saying every woman has to have children. Paul literally addresses that in 1 Corinthians 7. That's not what we're saying. We're talking about zoomed out in general, what women were created for and men were created for. In the absence of children, you can't turn those maternal instincts off. So what happens is when maternal instincts can't get aimed at a, internally at a family, those instincts get aimed externally at us into society. And what they end up doing is they aim the maternal instincts at quote unquote, ostensibly oppressed groups that need like mama bears to advocate for them. Kind of like a vulnerable child would. So this is a big part of, in my opinion, this is a big part of, if you watch, like hey man, if there's a Pride Parade, or if there's an advocacy group for LGBT kids, or if there's a, I almost pulled one up, this guy's asking why is it that liberal women are the ones that are like fighting for Islam? Well, here's, that's why, is because those maternal instincts, they're seeing someone that is ostensibly oppressed, like a picked on child, the maternal instincts kick in and their mama bear instinct kicks in. And it's like, well, I'm gonna get out there and fight for the person that's being picked on. And honestly, what's happening is Muslims for now have successfully branded themselves as an oppressed group in America. So if you're trying to ask the question like, bro, why is it white liberal women are in the value seam opposed to each other? That's part of why. Now the other thing that I will just, and this is a different podcast, so we'll just say this and move on. Dude, there is a weird unholy alliance between progressivism and Islam as ideologies. Because what people point out is, dude, it makes no sense. Look at American cultural landscape. Progressivism and Islam, it's like hand and glove. It's always like lockstep. And people look at it and they're like, bro, this makes no sense. Like why are we doing queers for Palestine? That's like saying chickens for KFC. It's like it literally queers in Palestine, get executed. Yeah, get killed. So people are like, why is this thing of like progressivism and Islam or like, the group that's supposed to be for women's rights is for the same people who force women to wear burqas and physically abuse them if they want. Like why is, well, here's what's going on. It's an enemy of my enemy is my friend, Alliance. So if you're asking why would like a radically feminist pro-LGBTQ progressivism align with women subjugating LGBT executing Islam? Here's the unifying principle. Anything but Christianity and anyone but Christ. Anything but Christianity and anyone but Christ. There's a spirit underneath the movements that's like Jesus is the threat. We will align in opposition of Jesus. Enemy of my enemy is my friend, Alliance. Thoughts are wanna keep moving on. That's a great, I'm sorry. I wanted to refer to Jana, because again, I'm just like, I wanna hear more. What I'd love if you don't mind me asking, sorry, I didn't mean to co-op this thing, is one of the things you said is like inherently, women do have, God has designed women to have that more empathetic kind of bent towards them. That's their God. That's a good thing. And that's a good thing. I mean, people don't hear that is not a bad thing. Maybe come back around that as we're not up here. Praise Jesus. Jana has the empathy she has when she's with our Jesus home with family all day. But earlier you said when you saw some of this graph, it's like, well, that's not me and you don't share that. So I know an incredible woman, like empathetic, caring, my wife loves you, like just incredible. So you have that empathetic bent in you. So what is it though that when you see LGBTQ stuff or pro-Islam stuff that you're like, you don't come to the same conclusions as other women. So some of it obviously is the worldview stuff. But is it that you don't care for them as people and they go, actually don't care for them? Like what is it that allows you to go in a different direction? Because I love them as individuals. And I like honestly, I want to see them come to saving faith in Christ. Because I know it's like, that is not your identity. That is not who God made you to be. Like you are made in God's image. He wants a relationship with you. And so it's like, I think it's like, it's hard to see people who want, they want people to stay stuck in their sin when Jesus wants to set them free. Come on, Jan. Yes. And so, so like, I like, yeah. It's like you're affirming them all the way to hell. Yeah. Yes. And it's like, I don't empathize with that. Like, you know, I want you to come to saving faith in Christ. And so how can I, how can I applaud you as you're doing something that is stealing your soul? Yeah, almost even reminds me going back to what we were talking about earlier. I mean, with Paul and you got Felix, you got someone who is completely different world be very immortal. And I'm sure Paul's heart went out to him. And yet he still was willing to talk about righteousness, self-control and coming judgment. Because to your point, I think it's in a different way is it is not loving to affirm the thing that is keeping someone from Jesus. There you go. Like, let's look at the one last thing and then I want to finalize our thoughts on why, because this is very enlightening. I want to finalize some thoughts on why there's a widening gender gap in voting patterns. So this is of all places NBC. I'll be honest, dude, when I first saw this, my heart broke. You got that? All right, Gen Z, these are adults under 30 years old. We thought we would ask a big picture question. What they think is most important to their personal definition of success. So we gave a whole bunch of different options here and we asked folks in this poll, pick the three that you think are most important. The most commonly cited for Gen Z for success in life to have a fulfilling job or career, to have the money to do the things you want to do. What was most surprising about this poll though was there were massive differences between how men and women in Gen Z answered. There it comes. There were huge differences politically. When you combine those two things, gender and politics in Gen Z, and you ask about what's important to success, they are worlds apart. Look at this, men, Gen Z, men under 30, who voted for Donald Trump, what were they most likely to say makes for a successful life, having children? Pause. So first stop and think about this. Because this is gonna make what comes next even more shocking. The dudes under 30, the dudes said number one most important thing for me to have happy life, having children. Bookmark that in your head. Let's keep going. Stop. Last. Last. Now, before we go any farther, because I want to watch the rest of this clip, Trinity, will you please pull up that New York Times headline? Like what I want to say to young women, this podcast, I think our listeners are 70% dudes, but there's more and more women. When Jan is on, there's gonna be more women watching. I just want to gently say to women listening, especially if you're a young woman, you are being lied to and propagandized by Satan, who is the God of this world, because he is a father of lies. Because you're seeing crap like this all the time. New York Times headline, married heterosexual motherhood in America is a game no one wins. Now let me just say, what she's saying is what, now I'm gonna go to a bunch of the data before I go back to the video. What she's saying is literally what you were created, biologically designed by God to do, she's saying that will result in you losing in life. Great job, Satan. That's literally who that, now let me just say, it's a lie. Bro, and it's not just a lie from the Bible, like data shows this a lie. All right, just rifle through this data real quick. So you got this guy, when you go to actual data, guess whose lives are less lonely, more meaningful and happier across every single age range? Moms, okay? Go to the next one, this is Brad Wilcox. Unmarried childless women are the least happy younger and older women. Married mothers are the happiest, married mothers are the happiest middle aged and older women. Go to the next one. You see the same thing from the family studies. Guess who are the happiest women in America? Married women with children, happiest women in America. So I just wanna like point this out, not just from scripture theology, but from sociology. You are being lied to, and that's part of what's driving, like why are women saying literally the last most important thing to me is having children? Because you've been successfully propagandized by Satan, who is the father of lies. Now let's keep going on the video clip. All the way down here at the bottom, couldn't be more opposite. Second to last for women who voted for Harris was being married. Being married was the top of the list. For men who voted for Donald Trump. Another huge difference, a very common answer for Gen Z women who voted for Harris was having emotional stability. For Gen Z men who voted for Donald Trump, you gotta go all the way to the bottom to find that one. These are some core- Will you pause real quick? So this is, dang dude, I should have brought this up. We'll do this on a future podcast. Have you guys seen the data on mental health between people who identify as progressive and people identify as conservative? It's insane. It's stupid. So like obviously in general, women self-report more mental health problems than men, by like a massive factor. But there is such a stark difference between people who identify as conservative and people identify as progressive in mental health that young female people who identify as conservative report having less mental health problems than men who identify as progressive. So like the charts look like this. So and there are reasons for that, they're ideological. Yeah, well it's cause life is best when you live in line with God's design. Yeah, yeah, and that's like, again, I always wanna say this. What we are not saying is that modern American political conservatism equals the kingdom of God. We are Christians first. And if that maps as conservative in a certain political moment, okay, fine, but I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian. But what you have right now is really one way of looking at the world that kind of more generally is built on Christian theology. And you have one way of looking at the world that kind of more generally is built on top of critical theory. And that's what you got going on there. Finish the clip. Let's see if there's anything left there before we just close the pod. How people think about life. And you can see here this rising generation in this country, very far apart. Okay, okay, Jana, do you have thoughts here? You may go right at it. Thoughts on the video? Yeah, so we're really going to the question. What they're really pointing out is massive difference between men are voting conservative, women vote in progressive, and there's a value, considerable value differences. I, yeah, I really think it is, I think, I mean, I don't even know what way feminism we're in at this point, there's so many. They say we're in fourth wave feminism right now. And I really think it's an outworking of feminism on our culture. And so like feminism is not your friend. It's really the outworking of the fall. So Genesis three. So I think that- You said something really significant there that needs to be. Yeah. So feminism, Jana and I talk, these are conversations we have at home with our kids too. Feminism is the ideological outworking of the curse of the fall to women in Genesis three. So when God curses the woman in Genesis 3.16, he says to the woman, he said, I will surely multiply your pain and childbearing in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary. Some Bibles will translate it against. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband. So this way it says, okay. So what feminism comes along and does is like, you know what? Man, somebody telling you that you need a man to be happy, that like you should focus on your home, that you should like actually aspire to and celebrate wanting to have children. How oppressive. For you. That's the free, yeah. That's the ideological outworking of the curse of the fall on women. That's what feminism largely is. So feminism tries to get women to care about anything and everything but what God has created. So he's created you for your home, your family and progressives will frame gender roles as women's rights issues. And so I think that's a lot of the reason we're seeing women trend that way. And they want women to feel oppressed by the patriarchy in that. So like, I won't go through like each wave of the feminism, but pre-industrial revolution, so prior to like mid 1800s, families functioned as a unit. So they lived together, they worked together, daily life was together. And they were a team, you know, just kind of like we call ourselves the Howard team. So it was built on clear biblical and social order husbands. He was the head, wife is the helper. And then we start to see a change in the mid 1800s to like the early 1900s. So feminism begins and like, I would say creep in because it just, it wasn't like bam, all of a sudden there, it just starts to have a creep. So, you know, it kind of started small, like women's rights to vote. And, you know, like we have, you know, just different things that women were involved in during that time. But that starts to creep in and it started to question the order by framing male headship as potentially unjust against women. So you begin to see the shift from God's design of what God says is good into, you know, that could be unjust, that could be bad for us. And in order for them to battle for individual rights. And so that's kind of where we're landed now. So women, it's about women's rights. And I think that's why, I do think that's why women are starting to trend more progressive because we've just kind of lost the family's shared mission whenever all that happened. When feminism crept in, it was no longer about the family doing things together. It was about each person having their own, I don't know, well, career, you could say calling, whatever. But once the home was the economic, spiritual, and educational hub, and now it's like a secondary place for most people. So husband and wife live more parallel and side by side rather than integrated and together. So, I mean, there are a few other things, but mothers and wives roles, they were once honored in the past and they were seen as a sacred calling and now they're seen as limitations. So I need to find myself and it has to be outside my family. Yeah, and then one last thing, by detaching womanhood from divine design, feminisms open the door for the redefinement of, and we've seen it, gender, sexuality, and family. That's good, Jana. Yeah, I'll just say a couple of things and we'll shut her down. Just while you talk to the ladies, I'll talk to the men, a lot of what drives that is bad men. Yes. Because one of the curses of the fall was, and he shall leave over you. So instead of becoming a loving head that lays his life down for the good of his family, yes, he leads, yeah, he does, yep, yep, and yes, there is an authority structure, but man, he loves, he blesses, he up builds. Bad men will use their strength to hurt, oppress, abuse women, and yeah, bro, that'll drive you running. Yeah, sure will. Man, I'll say a few things on that little divide we just saw and then you can agree, disagree, additional comments when you shut her down. I do think more and more you gotta think about this. If you look at the values of the two parties, it's kinda like what's happened is the Democrats, the Democratic Party is kind of mom and the Republican Party is kind of dad. So if you think about the values of the parties right now, Democrats, it's like, it's empathy, compassion, let me feed you, let me take care of you, that's kind of the progressive kind of esprit. And then the more conservative side of things, think about what that party tends to be about. It's like law and order, obedience, strong borders, strong military, personal responsibility, pull yourself up by your boost, get out there and grind and build something. I mean, that's like conservative vibe. Well, one of those sounds like mom and one of those sounds like dad. And so, hey man, when that happens, you're gonna have the women are kind of gonna be drawn a little bit more to the mom vibe and the dudes are gonna be drawn a little bit more to the dad vibe. I'll say this and by the way, I'm not commenting on every policy that he's ever proposed. I'm definitely not commenting on all of his moral actions, his actions in his life. People say a lot of things about Donald Trump what nobody has ever said about him is that he's feminine. I guarantee you that, nobody's ever said that. And so, men just in general, it's the old line from Braveheart, it's true. Men don't follow titles, they follow courage. If men look at somebody and they're like, respect, that guy can take a punch and keep moving. Just men are hardwired to be like, respect. So I think you see that a little bit. I think Janna hit it too, to help understand that divide a little bit is a little bit of Christian theology versus critical theory. And it really does, it gets down, whereas Christian theology views the world through a sin righteousness lens and goes, was that action right or wrong? Sin righteousness lens. Critical theory doesn't have a lens for right and wrong. It just views the world through the categories of oppressed and oppressor. And it does that through every sort of strata, demographic strata, race, gender. So you apply critical theory to gender and it's like the oppressive patriarchy, you live in a world that was built by men for men and that's why you can't get ahead. And so then the answer to the questions of men, why are like 80% of CEOs are men and why are they, and they say, well, it's because of an oppressive system that was built by men for men. And honestly, this is super politically incorrect. The Christian answer to that is, no man, that's creational design. That's just creation, you can fight that all you want. It's creational design. Men were created to do a thing and men and women in general were created for different things. And so that's gonna play itself out a little bit differently. And then the last thing that Jana hit is, man, if you really watch, man, what progressives tend to do is they are amazing at weaponized empathy. And again, what we're talking about there is, you know, it's kind of playing on emotion and getting emotion to override your logic and your convictions. So think about every Keystone issue, and then we're gonna be done with this podcast. Think about every Keystone issue, like that drive voting patterns. When you go to abortion, it's like what progressives do is they tell a really compelling sob sad story about a 15 year old girl that was taken advantage of and man, if she can't terminate the pregnancy, then this is what her life is gonna look like. And it's really emotional. An actual horrific evil precipitated that thing from a dude. Precipitate that life. But what they'll do is what toxic empathy does is it focuses the camera lens on only one person in the equation and gets you to have empathy for that person. But then it's like, don't look over there, don't look over there, don't look over there, because we don't want you to have empathy for that. So in the situation, it's like, look at the 15 year old girl, empathy, but don't look at the child they're about to kill. Who's also a victim. Who's also about to be a victim. So it's like, let's have empathy for this, but don't think about this. That's toxic empathy. Same with, honestly, same with immigration. It's like have empathy for the, have empathy for the single mom, that's trying to get their family in a better place. Let's have empathy over here, over here, over here. But then let's make sure the camera doesn't pan over to what happens when you've fled a populace with 20 million mass migration. What happens to all the actual women, children, and families? Let's not have empathy, so empathy over here, but no empathy over there. You can do it at homelessness, LGBT. What you're always gonna see is what toxic empathy does, is it focuses the camera on the one person I want you to have empathy for that will drive your political decision, but then it excludes the rest of the people from the equation so that you won't have empathy for them and drives it there. And you know, women are just more empathetic. Can I hit a couple of things? Please do. I know we gotta shut it down fast. I think from a practical thing, this may be a little too inner-sider baseball, but I think another reason why we're seeing that divide is in addition, you mentioned like mom and dad, this is also the last 10 to 15 years studies and stats show it just based on how little legislation they would have passed. We've never had a more inability for the two sides to work together. So in a good family, mom and dad work together and they're just gonna give and take, but literally in the last 10 to 15 years, it's one reason why executive actions and orders have gone up through the roof, is that Congress and those passing laws are unable to work together, and so they increasingly get this divide. And so you don't have that little bit of give and take of both. I think, and it really does sum it up, what both of you said is that, why is that widening? Because we are, because of what people are formed by and who they are hated by. Oh wow. Because in the one hand, feminism is forming our women for sure, in addition to our men, but definitely our women for sure. But also, you kind of hit it this, is that also who are hated by. So in run reason, why men are going back to the right is because they've been told for your last few decades, your toxic, your evil, your oppressive and all this other stuff, but then conversely, women unfortunately you talked about this earlier, men who don't represent Christ, but he sometimes claim they do, they'll say Christ is king, but then they are racist and misogynistic, and Christ needs to get on the throne of their views of that. But then they'll be told the same thing, it's a women goes the other side. So I think, I will say, we've gotta be careful what we're being formed by, but then also we've gotta be very careful not to hate and make enemies of those on the other side, because if anything, we'll just push them to the other side when we actually wanna win them to Christ. The final thing I would say is this, in terms of just our church's duty, we need to disciple women out of truthless compassion and then men out of graceless truth. It's really about that. Some of the most dangerous truths and virtues, some of the most dangerous truths and virtues are those that have lost their counterpoint truth and virtues, so Jesus as it says was full of grace and truth. And so it becomes really dangerous anytime we wanna be really full of grace, but also not really full of truth or really full of truth and not full of grace. And so I think that's just one thing, but to your point, we have to disciple our people differently based on maybe the particular ditch that they're gonna go into. Amen. Janna, will you pray that we would be able to do that? I'd love to. Father, you are so good. You are loving and kind and merciful. And I just pray that you will just place in us just a desire to do your will, to be formed by your word above all, not by culture, not by personal opinions or all the things swirling on around us, but that we are formed by you, Father. So I just pray that you will just give us more of your spirit, fill us with more of him, help us to know your word and to do it and to not procrastinate, but to just hasten and not delay to obey your commands, Father. So I just pray that you'll give us wisdom and that you'll give us hearts of obedience and that we will just do what you say. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Episode 50. Thanks for tuning in to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howerton. We pray today's episode helped you take a step forward in life, culture and faith as you live free in Christ. If it encouraged you, be sure to rate, review and share the podcast. And don't forget to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode. Join us for Lake Point Church Online every weekend and find more resources at LakePoint.Church.LiveFree. We'll see you next time. We'll see you next time.