A Look Inside the Lakers Sale and the Buss Family Dysfunction

coming up on the Zach Loes show. We got Michael Pina from the ringer to go around the NBA, the Knicks rebound from their rock bottom against Dallas the other day by wamping the sad Zach Brooklyn nets who it feels like having beaten the Knicks almost since they moved to Brooklyn. I know that's not true, but sorry, Nick Clexton. It's been quite a while. Yannis more troubling comments after yet another Bucks loss are just six and six with Yannis back from injury and the trade deadline is exactly two weeks away. What's going on? What should we read into any of this? And then a deep dive into the weirdest team in the NBA that heusted rockets now dealing with a bad Stephen Adams ankle sprain that's going to keep him out a long time. What what is this team? Has any team ever played like this before where their best offense is missing a shot? What is Stephen Adams absent stood all that? He's the best offensive rebounder outside of Mitchell Robinson on planet earth. Backster Holmes from ESPN joins to go inside his mega feature on the sale of the Los Angeles Lakers and the sibling rivalry among the bus siblings that destroyed their ownership of the team are at least got it down to 17% allowing Genie Buster, I made a governor for five years and then met corner holy cow of a mets were back. We're going for it. A lot of stuff happened. That's all coming up after this on the Zach Lo Show. Welcome to the Zach Lo Show. We got a lot to talk about today, including these guys, the New York Mets. We're back baby, but we're not going to start with that. This is a basketball show. After all, Michael Pina, how are you, sir? I'm doing great, Zach. How are you? Oh, baby, irrational fandom. I really missed it. I really missed it. Okay, let's bounce around the NBA before we take a deep dive into the strangest team in the league. Are you ready to bounce around some news? Let's do it. Do you care that the nicks followed up their players only meetings slash maybe it was just a chat according to Josh Hart? I don't know where we draw. What has to happen for it to be a players only meeting? Do you have to tell everyone else explicitly get the hell out of here? Lock the door. Search for bugs. If this is MSG, guys, sir, you got to sweep for bugs and kick everybody out. I don't know. Do you care that they beat the nick about beat the cross-down rival? That's by 4,000 points. Last night at MSG. I don't care. I don't think they care that much either based on the comments that were made after the game by Carl Towns, by Jalen Brunson, by Landry Shamit, who made 636, I think from my three-point line, basically just kind of tamping it down, not trying to make too much of a big deal out of the fact that they beat the Brooklyn Nets, one of the worst teams in the Eastern Conference in a game that they should win. It doesn't change the fact that they're three and nine in the last 12 games or whatever it is. But I will say that if they did lose that game after the Mavericks rock bottom performance, I would say anything was on the table. So far as big picture changes that could have happened over the next several days. So a win is important in the Evergaard, but no, it's not changing like any big picture of things for them. I don't know. I wouldn't, despite the drama and the noise and all of this and Kat's limbs flailing all about and hitting people in various sensitive spots and seemingly every game, including the high kick last night. Was it claxed in that he almost got with a Rockets level, not to use another James Dolen property, but a Rockets level high kick. I don't think anything super seismic would have happened. You never know, though. I said before, I like that there's been some buzz about like, are they, is there a cat? Non-ionist cat possibility trade wise. It's just so hard with the salary and their win now mandate and Mike Brown just got there. I will say, I thought they looked pretty good last night. The Brunson cat, two man game, it looked like they leaned into it in the right ways. The bridges cat, two man game, they leaned into that in the right ways and got bridges going a little bit. You mentioned Shamit. He gets interested in that Clarkson is now out of the rotation basically for meaningful minutes or to the fringes of it. Shamit has kind of supplanted him. You can see Mike Brown trying to land on like, okay, if I'm doing a nine man rotation in a playoff game, who is in it right now and he's made some interesting choices. I don't know if you saw the Tuesday's episode. I smacked the gavel down and I said, the wolves have won the catch raid. Got some feedback that was like unfriendly feedback about that from some interested parties. And look, I understand like, if the next win the championship as Brian Winhorse says, when you win the championship, every trade is an A plus. You never have to apologize for anything. If they win the championship and talent has a good finals and makes a big shot, that that clip is going to come back to Haumann. It's going to look foolish. I'm just saying right now at this moment, we can do this thing where we hedge and hedge and sell in two years and three years and four years. You never know in this and that and there's truth to that. I still, I stand by it. I think the wolves won the catch raid. What's your take? I think it's fair. I would say the biggest shots cat hit in a next uniform were probably game six against the pistons when he hit those two shots near the end. They kind of kept, I think that was game six. I can't remember. Maybe it was the heart's foul on Tim Hardaway Jr. game. I don't recall, but he had some big shots in crunch time, but that's crazy. Crazy shots. Yeah, that was a nip and tech series. Very competitive. Could have gone either way, I think. And so with that regard, he was big. He was pretty big in the Celtic series in some ways. To your point, Dante Diven Shenzoe and Julius Randall have been pretty very good for the Minnesota Timberwolves. And I think the Timberwolves are a, I don't know if they're, yeah, I think that they're a better team also. So I would say that it's fair to say that just on a basketball level that the Minnesota Timberwolves won that trade. And then when you throw contracts into it, it's kind of a no brainer. We'll see. I mean, look, it was flirting with win-win because I do think cat as a talent play and as a shooting play is just undeniable. I mean, he's taken a lot of flack for a firm to himself is the greatest shooting big men of all time. It's either him or Dirk and we'll see, you know, who else comes along at the end of the day? Like what do you, how do you even quantify yoket shoot just shoots well from every range? I don't know. But what we'll see good on the next one in that game and as bad as they've been in their last, whatever games they're still third in the East, the default conference of the NBA. Also in the East, it's starting to become an every game and every lost thing where Janus makes comments that I'm like, what's happening here? So I had missed this and then it got picked up by the media afterwards. After two games ago, when they, I believe one, I don't remember who they played. Let me look it up now. Yeah, they beat the hawks. Someone asked him, are you going to be, you know, how confident are you that you're going to be with the bucks for the rest of the season? Trade that line is two weeks from today, Michael Pina. And he said, I don't know, I take a day by day. Okay, cool. Like I just, whatever, whatever. Like I understand like what is he supposed to say? Right? Like, what is he supposed to say? Because it is in theory, not entirely his decision. He is correct that he, he, he, in a previous question at the same interview, was asked about teams sort of holding off on other smaller, medium sized trades in the event to have their assets in the event that Janus asked out. And he said, I can't control that. I can't control this. I can't control that. I don't know. I don't know. Is a, is still somewhat troubling answer. And then they get shellacked by the thunder last night. And yeah, they didn't have Kevin Porter, Jr. Who they're not going to have for a while. By the way, Doc Rivers after the game says he's not going to play anytime soon. He's got no bleak strain. I can tell you that, but we don't know how long it will be out. And by the way, this is a guy. Maybe the most marginal player in NBA history, who a team has pinned like massive amounts of their hopes on ever because if you talk to people privately, publicly around the bucks, like, well, we got wait to see like when KPJ and Janus gets a real time together like that's that's what we're waiting for. And now he's coming off the bench and now he's hurt. But more than that, Janus is comments after the game. We're not playing hard. Not the first time you said that. We aren't doing the right thing. We're not playing to win. We're not playing together. Our chemistry is not there. Guys are being selfish trying to look for their own shots instead of looking for the right shot for the team. Guys are trying to do it on their own. It just keeps going. I'm not the guy that will yell and cuss his teammate out into the ball. I've never done that in my career. But I feel like I've played with teammates that kind of understand the gravity that I can cause for our team and how they create for my teammates. But maybe for some reason, I don't understand. Maybe because we're young, maybe because we're not playing well, maybe because guys think it's their turn. They want to carry the team on their back and try to turn this around. I really don't get it. I really don't. I don't like I don't even know what he's talking about. Do you know what he's talking about? Like is he mad that Cole Anthony played for the first time and ages and took a whole bunch of shots and at five turnovers because his usage rate is borderline number one in the league where it's been at every peak season is MVP seasons all of that. I never watch the bucks and feel like man, AJ Green is really getting him up today. He's hijacking the offense and Kyle Kuzma is just like, it's Kyle time. Like I don't it's every game now. We get these strange comments from Yannis. Like he doesn't know quite what to say anymore on these endless questions. I don't think he's going to get traded before the deadline. I have said consistently, I'm not closing the door on it because in the event that they just lose and lose and lose. I think anything is possible. Most at least half the teams that would be in on Yannis in the off season. I think would be in on Yannis now. I think more could be in on the off season depending on if certain teams under perform in the playoffs or conclude that yeah, maybe over not as good as we think we are. But there's an argument to be made that their leverage, the bucks leverage would be just as good now with a team trading from getting him for a playoff run or an end of season run whatever it is versus in the summer. I'm actually less convinced that's the case now than I was two months ago. There's a very cogent argument to be made that it is just flat better for the bucks to rip this bandaid off, start the rebuild, recoup whatever draft that says they can get getting their own picks back is going to be a little tougher than just trading Yannis for a package of picks period. The door still is a jar to me. I saw Windhorse on NBA countdown last night. It's something about the whole league looks at this as a divorce way to happen. That's 100% true. I guess it doesn't matter what the whole league looks at this as it just matters what Yannis looks at this as. And he said I'm never requesting a trade. I'm never going to do it. Doc Rivers has said over and over again in his trademark incredulous how dare you even suggest it tone that he's never requested a trade. So I guess he's never going to request a trade. But these comments after every game are basically like the team stinks and I'm not happy. I don't know what to do with this. What are you doing with this? How should we deal with this? I mean, it's like he's not requesting a trade, but it's like on a technicality that he's making that statement because he's making scorched earth comments. Like basically calling his teammates stupid after a loss where you know, I watched that game and I also didn't really understand. I woke up this morning to you texting me to look at the comments that he made and I didn't I wasn't able to kind of connect those statements with what I saw. I mean, they were playing the Oklahoma City Thunder and granted the Thunder were banged up of course, but like a lot of the turnovers that you saw, I mean, it's the Oklahoma City Thunder. They still are an exceptional defense and it's very difficult to you know, once you get run off the pre-point line and you're asked to make a play, particularly the guys that they have on that team, you know, there will be bad past turnovers. They will get stripped. That's just what's going to happen. So I don't know what the expectations were there, but I mean, I feel like these are just unnecessary and if he really wanted to stay in Milwaukee, we've said this a million times, he would just make a statement about how he wanted to be here. He was going to be here. He's committed to the Milwaukee Bucks organization long term. He will sign an extension when the day comes that they offer it and that just hasn't happened and it hasn't happened. It's a pattern throughout his entire career where he doesn't make the long term commitment to Milwaukee and kind of leverages the extension for them to be active with personnel moves. So I don't know what to make of this. I'm with you. I don't think that he will be traded before the deadline or you know, it's possible, but I would not bet that that will happen. And I also think that the teams that will disappoint inevitably in the postseason that could be Yana Souther's would be more willing to give up things and it's also easier to make transactions in the off season. So that's what I would think is going to happen if I had to predict, but this like mellow drama is just it's it's grading and it's kind of annoying. And I will say one last thing like one of the reasons that the Milwaukee Bucks are so bad, like they're really dominant when he's on the court, typically incredible on off numbers. But like one of the reasons that they're bad is that he either doesn't play at all or he's on a minister's restriction. And if you watch last night's game like he's on the bench in the last five minutes, it's a 15 point game. He just doesn't play the last five-ish minutes of the game. Shay is on the court playing, scoring his 40th point. So that stuff is like it's on his fault that he's on the minister's restriction, but it's like that's a reality of the situation. They are terrible when he's on the bench. So yeah, I don't know. I expect him to get traded this summer. I think that that's inevitable. They're not good enough. They haven't been good enough the whole season. They're starting Gary Harris right now, which is this like I love Gary Harris. He's had a nice career in the NBA before all the injuries really took his legs out from owner. And he was quite a good 3-in-D kind of role player. Great fit with Denver before they traded him. They're 18 and 25. They're still 11th in the East. They're six and six since Yannis came back. And they just don't have Miles Turner has been in. And again, their choices are, I guess there's three choices. Trade him now, which they don't want to do. And I don't even think I'm not even sure Yannis wants to that. I think the cleanest solution for him from a PR perspective, and maybe from a destination perspective is get to the end of the season. They can't he can't actually sign an extension until October, I think, but obviously they can begin discussing it or whatever feeling it out. And if he doesn't sign an extension or indicate that he's not going to, he hasn't demanded a trade, but he's effectively done the same thing as demanding a trade. But there's a little wiggle room, semantically where you can say I never demanded a trade. And then it opens up and they can trade him wherever. But there is not good enough now. They're not going to be good enough now. And so choice one is trade him now. Choice two is revisited in the summer. Choice three is dig the whole deeper dig the whole like you're already 50 feet underground with Miles Turner and Dan Lillard's bad mad dead money and all the pics you've traded. You've got one tradable pick right now. And you and they're still they're still projecting. We want to buy an upgrade the team around. Yannis and we've done all the names and John Moran had another great game last night, whatever. I don't really love that fit for them. And I've talked about that. I'm sure they would love to thread the needle and upgrade without including that pick. Take on money that's so unwanted from another team, but still attached to a talented ish player that fits that they can do it with just Kuzma and Portis. By the way, Kuzma and Portis, I don't know like the third and fifth best players on the bucks right now. It's not whatever it is. I mean, I don't know how you want to rank Rollins and Green and whatever. It's not like there are nothing to this current bucks team, not even close to that. Portis is an annual six minute a year candidate. I don't know that they should dig the whole any deeper. Nobody thinks they should really dig the whole any deeper to save whatever exists of this team. I don't even know what he's mad about. Is he mad that the nazis took two shots and it took a shot one shot in two minutes. Leslie is the nazis is usage rate at the core of this. I don't even know what he's mad about when I look at the box score. He even I got I got to say this. He even he's got to study up on his Kobe Bryant history a little bit because he said at the end, they told me there's this thing that's called the white man and the black swan that you've got to be the black swan to be more aggressive and demand the ball. It's something I haven't done that I've never done my whole career. Maybe I've got to do it more. Dude, black swan, white swan, that's Paul Gassol and Kobe Bryant. Man, you got to know, come on. That's like that's like recent NBA history 101. We're doing so we're doing swans now. We're doing is he mad Pete nance took seven shots. Shout out to Pete nance. He's playing. Yeah, he's been playing well. I don't know. It's a total mess. The dig deeper scenario I'm I'm fearful. I I would not count it out based on how this front office has behaved over the past. I don't know six ish months maybe a little bit longer. I would call them desperate, but a desperate team is not in 11th place with no chance to make the playoffs like there. If they even if they get to the play in, which is not a guarantee right now, being competitive in it, winning two games, I just I just don't see it. So it's a pull the plug rip the band-aid off situation for me. I guess we all know they're reasoning, right? And it's not crazy when you start saying it out loud. We have the best player in the conference. Everyone in this conference other than Detroit who's cruising along to the number one seed is beatable. We frankly don't think Detroit is that scary given their lack of shooting and the fact that we have the best player in the series. I think that would be wild. They underestimate a really good piston scene, but just say and like, well, give a put us in a series against any scenes. We can beat him. And I say it's all the time about the playoffs. That may well be true, but a you've got to get through the play in right now, which is no guarantee. You might have to do it from a position from a position of disadvantage or you're in the nine intense spot. You got to win on the road and B. I said this about the Lakers for each of the last four years. It's super cool to say you can go toe to toe with any team in a playoff series. And who knows, punches chance to do that two, three, four times in the playoffs and seven game series is like a completely different animal. Anyway, enough bucks. I'm done with the bucks. Black swan. Get the rent. Rent black swan. It's a good, it's a good plane movie. It's, it's, you know, Nally Portman, Mielecunis, good performances. Anyway, last piece of news. To revisiting the Jimmy Butler thing, which I talked about the other day. I'm stunned at how much funer funeral funeral, funeral, whatever, uh, eulogies for the warriors that have come out in the last couple of days. Like, well, it's over now. The end of Venera. It's been over. Like it was, if, if, if by, it's over means they can't contend anymore. That was already over. That's, that window has been shut since the beginning of this season when there was a glimmer. I said, I'm opening the latch at least. I didn't even open the window open the latch and then it's slammed shut. It's over. Steve Kerr told you it was over. He said it out loud that it's over. And it's sad that Jimmy Butler got hurt. It's sad that I don't see any kind of trade that saves their season. Even one that sends butlers 50 whatever million dollar salary out and brings back a player of that caliber. And speaking of Yannis and teams that could go after Yannis, they'll never have the best package. But if they get to the off season or even, even now, frankly, coming up, put all the young players and all the picks, three and a half gold and stayed first-round picks. Their picks have more value than the typical team getting on as picks because the team around him is old. They will, they would try for sure. And that just raises the question of, how many teams can beat that offer? I think it's quite a few. And B, if they have to put Dremond in that deal or Jimmy in that deal and they put all the young players in, is what they have even good enough? Like Curry, Yannis and like whatever is left over, Quentin Post and Trace Jackson, Davis and one of Butler who's injured and Dremond who's aging too, is that even good enough? And that really, that good enough question has hovered over the Post 2022 championship warriors where they get dinged a lot by their fan base for not going super all in around stuff, for being a little bit too precious about the two timelines thing, which was an accident, not a plan, and hasn't really borne enough fruit to be what they hoped it would be. And was never going to bear enough fruit. This was always the most likely outcome of this was that the young guys aren't good enough in time for the old guys. And when the old guys leave, the young guys aren't good enough to be the foundation of a great team. That's generally what happens to aging teams who luck into hydraphics, especially when you pick James Wiseman. Number two, but I'd like, it's not like they haven't tried. I would love to go back and be like, what is the actual missed opportunity here where they should have gone all in and put all the young players and all the picks in and didn't because they tried for an anobiancy, they tried for marketing, they tried for Paul George, they got Jimmy Butler, they tried for Durant, and then they finally get Butler at a low cost. And you know, I don't know what the what the missed opportunity was, but the marketing thing is, is an interesting example because if they had actually gone all in for him, they could have at least made the jazz think about it. And all in is the same stuff we're talking about for Yannis. That's what the jazz we're going to be demanding from marketing. And that leaves you with the same question you have now about like, is it actually good enough? So I don't know what the missed opportunity is. I know that this was always the most likely outcome, a sort of honorable goodness at the end of the Steph Curry era. They're not going to trade Steph. They're not going to tank. These are non starter non options. Stop talking about them. But you can have the funeral. It's already over. It's been over. I don't know. Was there any hope left that they could like actually win the West? No, not big enough, not athletic enough, not young enough, not deep enough. I think that you know, you bring up Yannis for them. I mean, the package that they have would not be the most impressive. I agree with you. But Yannis, we'll have a say here because he has leverage because of his contract. And if he says to a team that wants to trade for him, I'm going to be there a year. You might not as well. I'm going to be a free agent after that. And it's better what they have is better than whatever the Nix have as currently constituted as another team that Yannis could theoretically, according to the reporting at least by Sean's, try to leverage his way to. Right. So if he says, you know, I really want to play with Steph Curry. I'm would love to live in the Bay area. Me and Thanasis both get a two bedroom apartment. It'll be incredible. Then the warriors are in the mix for sure. And at that point, though, the follow up is like, isn't that good enough? And I think that is a totally fair question. And frankly, no, I don't think it is good enough. I think that, you know, even if Dremon were to still be there, Steph is just very old and injury prone. And we just talked about Yannis's low-key health history and moderate concern. And so you look at the spurs, the rockets, the thunder, probably blinking on another up-and-coming team in the Western conference that just has so much more depth than youth and athleticism. And to get through a regular season in today's league, like, that's what you need. Those are the ingredients that you have to have. And I don't think that the Golden State Warriors would be able to build that out. So Steph and Yannis would be a lot of fun to watch. And they could aspire to win a championship. But I don't, I don't see that in the cards. I mean, your, your reason for doing it would almost be less. We think we're good enough to win the championship. And more, it's freaking Yannis. And what are Caminga Pajemski who I think has had a sneaky good season, by the way, Moody and Four First Run picks, amounting to for us. We can get a top five player, top three player in the door. And maybe set us up to have cap space. Like, I could see the argument, but you lose all the optionality when you trade all the other stuff and all the picks. Anyway, Warriors, it sucks. It just sucks. But this was always what was going to happen most likely, barring, barring, America. Okay, let's talk about a team that actually has the assets to try to make Yannis. Doesn't seem to have any plans to now has never seemed to have any plans to during this fraud season for the bucks. But again, if they fail in the playoffs, they've losing the first round or get smashed in the second round. Who knows? And that's the weirdest team in the entire NBA, the Houston Rockets. I was thinking about what to talk about today, because I'm kind of trade talked out a little bit. And I'm like, well, what what what team have I not done a real proper 20-minute deep dive on? And I keep talking about the Rockets in the sides and like ranking them in the West. I'm like, I haven't actually sat down and looked at this weirdo team who has made an entire offense out of missing shots and then rebounding them. They are 10 and 9 in their last 19 games and they've sort of fallen out of the, um, can they win the title discourse, where they were firmly in that at the beginning of the season. Van Vleet's out the entire season. Well, actually, I shouldn't say that. There's a little, there's some flickers. There's some flickers he can come back to season, but he has been out the entire season. Easton's been in an outies in again. Adams is now out for a while with the grade three ankle sprancy huge loss for them. Capella is there. This is why they have Capella. We'll get there. There's still 26 and 15. Fourth in the West tied with the nuggets in the last column for third. They are top five on both ends of the floor, despite this sort of meandering last 20 games. Third in offense, fifth in defense. They are the weirdest team in every possible sense. Their offense can look clogged and slow and aimless and directionless and then they score or they miss and then they score or they miss twice and then they score again. It doesn't look good, but the results are good, even within like a micro possession basis and the weirdest really peaks in. They are one of these teams and you see a team like this every couple of years where on defense, they are elite at forcing you into mid-range shots. They don't allow a lot of threes and they don't allow a lot of shots at the rim. They allow the second mode. They allow, I think the second most mid-range shots in the entire league, analytically darling defensive team. And yet on offense, they are the exact kind of team that they try to force offenses to be with their own defense. They are 29th in threes, 20th in shots at the rim and second in mid-range shots. They're like a bizarre old funhouse mirror of a team and it's so weird because I don't know how you can be first in offensive rebounds by a country mile and be second to last in threes in 20th in shots at the rim. Aren't offensive rebounds supposed to lead to kick out threes, even if you don't have three point shooters and more than that, aren't they supposed to lead to immediate shots at the basket? This is such a strange team and yet all the numbers suggest, hey, they've never left the conversation about title contenders. Where do you want to start? Did you just want to start like right away? Can they win the title or what's interesting to you about them? Yeah, I mean, that's a really good big picture question. I love how you frame them as the weirdest team in the NBA in trying to kind of synthesize my thoughts about them. I still would label them a championship contender. Any team that is what are they forth in that rating top five on both ends of the floor? They have two all stars probably in Shengoon and Kevin Durant. They just they profile as a championship contender. But like they're also this team where I know I know what all the other championship contenders are and I know how good they can be and I feel like I've seen their best basketball. And with Houston, it's just like there's so much more there to either discover or they are just flawed fatally in a way that will show up in the post season and kill them. And I can't really figure out which side I fall on with that. And the Adam's injury is like, I mean, they're really good when Shengoon's at the five offensively and net rating wise and all that sort of stuff. But like Steven Adams is just like the personification of their identity on the basketball court. And he's a big reason why they're so good at protecting the rim. Their zone defense has been you know with a little bit of three point luck. Really good in the double big lineups when he's on the floor. Obviously they grab offensive rebounds at I mean, they lead the league still when he's off the court, I think, but when he's on the court, it's like 45% or something. It's just absolute monstrosity. You can't deal with it. So it's just a huge loss. And it almost changes like I don't know. I don't want to say it changes their identity. I think they'll play similarly because they have no choice. But he's just he's huge. And if he's out until late March or April, where will Houston be in the standings then? Will they be in the play in? If you're in the play in, I'm sorry, you're probably not going to go to the NBA finals. That'll be exceptionally difficult. So I'm more pessimistic today than I was even a week ago before he fell in his ankle. And there's all these other things that we can get into about how why they are weird. But just zooming out that is really what my focus is on. And yeah, there's a lot to like, but there's just a lot of laws with this team that I just don't know will. I don't think they will translate well into playoff basketball. Yeah, Adams has been unbelievable. He's on my six man of the year medium to short list. There are plus 12 per under position on the floor plus three and a half with him on the bench. He's a he's a game changer for them. I also think that this is going to you mentioned things to discover. And but they are still going to play similarly. They're they still crash like all hell no matter who is on the court. Their guards and wings are elite offensive rebounders. A coge is like a basher. Eason is a basher. There's going to play like that. But I don't think they can count on as many games with like a 50% offensive rebounding rate as a failsafe for them. And I think they want to go on that discovery phase. So like the Durant Shenguin two man game. It it happens a lot. It should be like this unswitchable foolproof foolproof play. Despite the lack of shooting around it, I think they want to discover more about that. Durant and on men Thompson, their pick and roll chemistry both ways. Durant screening for him and then flaring out for threes and vice versa. That's coming along. The Durant Reed Shepherd. Same thing. Both ways. Reed screening for Durant. Durant screening for Reed unpredictable sides difference. Both can shoot. That's coming along. Lean more into that. I think they want to play faster. It that I think one of the reasons they're weird is because they're big and bulky. And they have a very old superstar in Kevin Durant. But they also have players particularly Reed Shepherd and on men Thompson who when you watch them together in Eason two are like meant to fly up and down the floor. So there's a little bit of sort of yin yang stylistically. And then like you know, Eason's back. That's a big deal. Finney Smith is back really sort of easing his way into being back. But I remember when they started Eason over a Kogi on Christmas. And I was like that's that's probably the lineup because as good as a Kogi's Ben, they never envisioned him as a starter and teams are never going to guard him no matter how many corner three Z hits. They need a little bit more dose of shooting in that spot. That lineup is only played 52 minutes together. There are plus 46 in those 52 minutes with Amen, Eason Durant, Jabari Smith Jr. and Shenguin together. And then they're also going to have to play to Jabari Smith Jr. at center a little bit in this stretch without Adams. And I think one of the things they want to lean into with that group is can we switch a lot on defense? And if so, can we force more turnovers? Because this is this is the white whale for this team. When you win the offensive rebounding game by this much as they do, you are sending a message, much like Joe Mizzulo with the Celtics like we want to win the possession game. We want every game to be when you look at the box score, free throws even and we took 10 more shots than the other team because that's how we want with that's how we want to win. They're doing their job as rebounders, but on offense, they are 29th in turn over eight. Only Portland has turned it over more. And on defense, they're 23rd at forcing turnovers. If they can get that equation closer to neutral, the possession game becomes a weapon for them. They're just such a weird team, though, man. It really is. It really is strange. And by the way, I remember, there was a lot of like, oh, the Fred Van Vley thing will be a blessing in disguise for Hussain. That was the phrase that came over. Did you say that? I might as well. Yeah. I might as well. And in some ways, that's born out because on Mentonson has taken on a larger offensive role in these averaging almost 19 points again. Reed Shepard has had to play. I think he probably needs to play even more than he's playing now because of the shooting and playmaking that he provides. So they've discovered that he's a real guy, also in the six-man-of-the-ear conversation maybe. But like, the idea that they were going to be better off or it was a blessing in disguise, when you trade for Kevin Durant at age 37, even when you trade as little as you did, you are trying to win the championship immediately. And there was zero question that no matter how good Reed Shepard was and how much on Mentonson developed, they were not going to have better championship odds without Fred Van Vley running their crunch time offense, organizing them, doing whatever, then they would with him. And maybe he comes back. But to answer my own question, I would say I think they would need a lot of luck to actually win the championship. I would put them soundly behind healthy thunder and healthy nuggets, which don't exist right now on either side, but in the championship hierarchy. I think that's totally fair. And going back to the comment you made about a friend, I think obviously where you see him missing is a high turnover rate for sure. The crunch time offense, which I'd love to talk about more because I think that that is one of their great Achilles heels. And it's just really problematic when I went through this morning and watched a ton of their crunch time possessions offensively. Tell me tell me what you saw. I mean, it's just such a mess. It's both a mess. It's like bumper car basketball. And then also it is so formulaic and so predictable. And so just like the defense knows exactly what's coming, which is probably going to be Kevin Durant, High Pick and Roll, or maybe without Baron Shagoon, usually, or Kevin Durant just drawing to because the defense is just unaffraid of him swinging the ball and they know that they're trust their ability to rotate behind the play, or Alper and Shagoon, two man game with usually Durant, honestly. And I just think that that predictability is, it has not worked out well for them. And their spacing is really bad. And what they count on usually is a lot of isolation basketball with either KD, Orshan, Goon, Jabari, Smith, being counted on to hit wide open shots, which sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't, sometimes he's run off the three-point line and has to hit a two-drill pull-up. And that's your offense. But there are plays where like there's a play in the Spurs game where Shagoon gets it at the elbow and Kevin Durant is denied on a DHO. And Shagoon basically doesn't know what to do. And there's like nine seconds on the shot clock and he looks over at Jabari and Jabari sprints over, takes the ball and he hits a step back midrange jumper over Luke Kornet. But it's like that wasn't, that's not what he made, Udoko Wands. He knows that's not sustainable offense. And I don't, like when I watch them play throughout the basketball game, their half-court offense still runs stuff. Like they'll run things they can get Amin Thompson moving. Like Amin Thompson will rip screen and die. He will, they'll run a flare screen for Reed Shepard that ships the defense. And then he can flip it back to Amin and Amin can drive a close-out. And he's so, he's got the quickest first step in the league so he can get into the pain at will. But they don't really do that. And so Amin is sort of in these situations where he's got to go up against a loaded up defense when he does have the ball and he does the the Euro Stepper, the D-cell. And it's just a contested paint shot outside the restricted area. And he's sometimes he makes them and then it's great. Sometimes they crash the offensive glass and get the rebound, obviously. But I just, I don't like it at all. I don't think that there's a lot of creativity. I feel like they are almost playing not to make mistakes and deferring quite a bit to Durant, which granted he's terrific. But I did not anticipate him having this large of a load. This season, particularly in crunch time. And yeah, so that's that that's like a big concern to me. How do you how do you feel about their crunch time offense? Well, I do. I have been worried since Van Vleet's injury about Durant's minutes and his load at his age. And I still am just playing a ton of minutes. He's like not uncommon to see his minute total in a game start with a four. And they're like, oh, that's due to December. January. Yeah. Like let's take a little easy. They had a possession against the spurs the other day and a game they they won. It's like five minutes left. People can look it up. Amin Thompson had the ball near the top of the three point line. Kevin Durant was being denied by somebody. A close to half court. And he just like stood there and did nothing. Amin Thompson was dribbling around. Nobody else moved like literally nobody moved. It's a close game with five minutes left. And he was like, all right, I guess it's on me then like Kevin, you're not moving. No one else is moving. And he just drove headlong at Stefan Castle, like a bull trying to charge a Matador. And just like crashed into Stefan Castle and lost the ball. It's like, that's what you got with five minutes left. And look, like the spacing is what it is. They don't have their point guard. Um, I just this is why I won't pick them against the healthy thunder or a healthy nuggets team. And maybe a healthy spurs team too. But they they can go toe to toe with those teams. The thing on the thunder is I think you could say, well, our recipe against a team like that is we just beat the hell out of them with our size and rebounding. And I think that's less applicable when hard and shine is healthy. And you saw in that game the other day, now Houston might have been on a back to back when they got blown out by the thunder. I can't remember. If you have an offense that doesn't move the ball, that the thunder can load up on and start to anticipate where the ball is going to be and start to tilt their defense toward you. You're dead. You're not going to score on them. And they're just going to start taking the ball from you. Uh, and Denver is Denver. What the what the rockets do have are a bundle of trade assets. Still, they have the net swap rights next year, which is one of the biggest chips in the league. And probably we'll define a little bit of what the nets do this off season. They have multiple draft assets from Phoenix in 2027 and then 2029 as well. Uh, I don't think they're going to do anything big at this trade deadline. I just don't like I think any of the sexy huge names. I don't think they're really super in on right now. Again, off season, who knows? I can see them trying to do something small to add some kind of depth piece. I just and they always have guys they check in on guys bigger like medium to bigger guys that are not like Yannis and Morant or whatever. I don't know if they're going to be able to get any of those guys. I tried to look at small names for them. It's it's like guys you can get it that are basically minimum guys are a little bit higher than that. You know, if Adams is just not, is he going to be off for a long time and be iffy for the playoffs? Could they get like Marvin Bagley or Deirons sharp or like a sharp offensive rebounder? Sharp's going to have a mark. It wouldn't surprise me if the nets actually got like kind of a bad but still a first for Deirons sharp. He has a team option next year for six million. I can see them netting a first for him. And I do think the nets will sell as on as many of these vets as they can. I thought like could they get FEMA high Luke just to have another guy you could shoot like these are the kinds of things I'm talking about. Off season gets interesting for them. I think this is probably going to be more or less their team but you know you never know they're always active. They're always spoken around. It's a really good team. I think they would need some breaks to come out of the West. I don't think yeah I mean looks like the Denver Nuggets win healthy the Oklahoma City Thunder win healthy are exceptional. I did think that the win how they beat the spurs was encouraging coming off of some of the losses that they've had recently. But I think like one of the other things that has bothered me a little bit about this team and they've had injuries for sure but like I just thought their defense would be like second best not as good as the Thunder but like non-Thunder division arguably the best defense in the NBA and that has not happened at all. I know they rank really high but over the other times for fifth with Toronto. Right but since like December 1st I think they're like 11th and defensive rating. They've had some real clunkers and when you watch them they still make mistakes at the point of attack. They'll have someone double when the weak side defender has no idea that that is actually the strategy so no help the helper there. They've got a lot of three point luck as I said earlier with the zone. It has been successful and they play a lot of zone when they're double big still. And like email they've lost two games against the Portland Tribalizzers back to back recently and I think it was after the first one I can't remember but email Doka called their game plan discipline horrendous and part of it was like he specifically cited Denny Abia who Taisen said the Zebras were the reason that Denny had such a great game which is ridiculous. It also had been a while since I heard refs refer to as Zebras. They don't wear stripes in the NBA but I love it. I love a good old school car back to how we used to talk about these things. Yeah but like he specifically said email that you know we didn't force him there were guys that we didn't force to the right direction and it's like everyone around the NBA knows that Denny Abia wants to get to his right hand and you watch that game and they let Denny Abia get to his right hand over and over and over again and it's like clear that the coaching staff told them that is not what we want to do and it happens. So I think like there's just elements of their defense that are frustrating to me. I don't know if that's fair or if you if you feel the same way or similar about their defense but like when your offense is what it is and is really wearing some in crunch time in particular and in the fourth quarters of games and you play so slow like 25% of their shots are with seven or fewer seconds on the shot clock and some of that is offensive rebounding but some of that is just because they play really slow but you need your defense to be elite and I think for some reason I don't call I don't refer to them or think of them as an elite defense. I don't know what do you think. I don't worry about their defense. I think it's fine. Like I understand like every team is going to make mistakes and and they they have some youth to them. They have some guys you can go after I think I actually think Shenguun has made quite a lot of progress on defense. He's tough. He's smart. They're definitely they're definitely hiding him or shifting his assignment much less than they used to. I don't I don't worry much about their defense. Yeah they're really good. Are they good enough? I don't know. I do want to say one quick thing but oh we need Zebras. You know I was thinking like they wear gray all gray. All the all gray animals are like big big fat animals. We can't call the refs like rhinos or hippos or elephants because the refs are all in very good shape. We need to think of an updated zebra for the non-striped era. The refs in the NFL I believe are still zebras but the NBA refs are not zebras anymore. They got it we got to come up with something new. I just want to touch on one rocket thing real quickly. I feel like maybe this is me being an old man. Maybe it's that fans don't care as much because the threes the volume of threes has changed scoring totals in the modern era so much. I feel like we're just sort of fast forwarding by Kevin Durant passing Dirk Navitsky in the scoring all time leaders. He's now six all time. He's going to pass Michael Jordan either this year or next year. Then he's going to pass Kobe after that. I don't think he's going to catch Karl Moulon. Absentia Kileist here. Kevin Durant was very likely going to be the third leading scorer in the history of the NBA. He might end up fourth now and I get that we can't just pause life to be like oh he's now ninth and eighth and James Hardin just moved up to 11th and has 28000 something points. But like Kevin Durant there are 10 guys in the history of the NBA with 25,000 points 75 hundred rebounds and 45 hundred assists. He's one of them. LeBron Kareem will mailman Garnett Oscar Durant Pierce sneaking in under the just over the thresholds. John Havelichek and Russell Westbrook. He is for his career 50% overall 39% on threes 88% on free throws like almost a 50 4090 career. And I just all I remember I don't want to do the whole Durant thing now because God knows there's a lot to revisit about the navigation of his career. How he gets no credit for the warriors titles and all of that. I just remember when the Warriors won in 2022 being on NBA today. And because this is what you do on TV, Curry versus Durant legacy thing was being debated. And in the heat of that title and how good it felt for Curry, everyone on the panel was like oh snow brainer Steph Curry's going to get the finals MVP. He finally is a four time champion. You revolutionized the sport. And I just remember sort of gently being like are we sure? Like I don't really care because they're both amazing. And I hate putting these guys up against each other. 32,000 points coming up on that. He's going to pass Michael Jordan. Just pause for a second. Michael Jordan 50 4090. More first team all NBAs than Curry. More all star appearances. Curry again, I don't care really. I'm just saying and defensively he's always been very good. Seven feet tall. The ultimate he can be the first option, but you can also pair him with any superstar of any ilk that exists anywhere and he will amplify their game instead of taking away from it. MVP only once, but MVP two time finals MVP. I'm not going to sit here and say I've done like my top 20 NBA players of all time. But I know for sure there are guys that when I do it properly, I will have higher than consensus. Tim Duncan is one of them. I think Kevin Durant's going to be another one. I think he's going to be historically underrated because of the bad taste his departure from Oklahoma City and more more apt. His arrival in Golden State left in people's mouths. But I'm watching him pass dark creep up on Michael. And I'm just like can we just pause for a second and look at this guy's career because it's absolutely insane. And I feel like he's going to be remembered as the 18th best player of 14th best player. And I'm like I think he's probably a little better than that. It's really funny how you use the word underrated. I mean in my notes for pairing for this I wrote Durant is having an underrated season. And I feel like he is just at least for me a lot of the attention and focus goes towards what I said earlier about how his minutes and his shots and his touches and his on ball percentage and his true usage and all that sort of stuff is basically where it's been since he left the Golden State Warriors. But like the shooting splits are like staggering. Like just such consistency throughout compared to basically any season of his career almost in terms of efficiency. He's still like the best mid-range shooter in the league. I you know, crapped on their crunch time offense earlier because they're giving the ball to Kevin Durant and running actions. And it's like well if I was a coach of the Houston Rockets that's probably also what I would do because it's Kevin Durant and he's incredible. And he makes he amplifies everyone else around him with his gravity and his shooting and his decision making. So yeah, he's still like he's an underrated player and he's an all-time great. And he's 37 or whatever he is. And the fact that he's still doing this is borderline unprecedented. Like besides LeBron James, I don't I can't recall anyone doing what he's doing at the level he's doing at every single night. So you shut out to Kevin Durant. Like you put him, you stack him up head to head with Larry Bird. And I think eight out of 10 people, I've got to slay Larry Bird's better. And like look, I grew up with Larry Bird, not with him in French Lake Indiana. I grew up watching Larry Bird. I know that he's won more championships and more MVP's and all that. I'm just saying stack their resume side by side and tell me Larry Bird is like definitively ahead of better career than Kevin Durant. I'm not sure that you I just I want to do it study anyway. Yeah, he's a walking, you know, Steph Curry is the greatest shooter of all time. We all know that because the volume of three study shoots and the percentage that he hits is just completely unprecedented. Greatest shooter of all time open clothes. There's no argument. Kevin Durant is closer to being in that conversation. We don't think of him that way because he's a scorer, not a shooter. He's both. Like I think Dirk would come up in that conversation before Kevin Durant. Other guys like that. He's like 50 40 Steve Nash would come up in that conversation. I think before Durant 50 40 90 is like the the holy trinity of numbers for shooters. If you can hit that once in your career one season, you're a historically great shooter. He's like lived in 50 40 90 for 20 freaking years in the NBA. Okay, real quick before you go. I said, let's do a quick scan of six man of the year. We're not going to have time to do in detail six man of the year. Just give me your pick. Who's your mid season six man of the year? Isaiah Stewart. Oh my God. He's on my list, but my God, Michael Pena 10 points five rebounds. No one can make a basket at the rim. He shoots two Zantherees pretty well. He can play with Durant, which is big for their depth. I like the choice. It's a bold choice. You want defense. Why not have a defensive player win? Exactly. I've always wanted to defender to win this award and when Todd Gibson lost it to Jamal Crawford, who I also love in 2014. It hurt me a little bit. And I thought the Alex Caruso, I pretty to tend to win it last year. Look, Detroit pistons are the best team in the Eastern Conference. Isaiah Stewart, we were talking about Steven Adams before. I think that Isaiah Stewart also personifies so much of Detroit style of play, the grit, the toughness, like don't come in the paint or you will get knocked on your ass mentality that they have. And yeah, opponents are shooting 43% at the basket when he's nearby to contest. That's absolutely just an insane number that leads the NBA. And yeah, I don't really like the 10 points are gravy to me. The fact that he's shooting more threes that make him allows him to play with Durant helps for sure. But it's just all the defense and all like the intangible stuff that he does to make the Detroit pistons, the Detroit pistons. He's on my short list. I don't, I think if I had to pick right now, it might pick Jaime Hockett's junior. But Keldin Johnson's got an argument. Nazaried, as always, has an argument. I don't want to go too deep into like the dues McBride pool of candidates. I'll tell you who's coming is Grayson Allen. If he come, if this bench thing is permanent for him and he becomes eligible, he's coming. And I'll tell you, I'll just assume new totally under the radar season, although all the smart teams are trying to get him from the bulls. And the last thing I'll say is I don't go through every candidate. AJ Mitchell's got a chance to be six man of the year and most improved player in the same season, which I'm not sure if that's ever happened before. But well, I have to do a deep dive on this another day because we got back to our homes coming in to talk about Lakers, Lakers. Michael Pena, thank you, sir. ringer.com. What do we got this week? You did, you had your awards ballot this week. Your midseason awards, right? Yeah, a little fun, Colin, little superlatives and little midseason awards. And then tomorrow I have a little trade deadline primer. Open up on the site. It should be fun. Look for that. Michael Pena, you're the man. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Zach. Zach Lowe's show is brought to you by Fandall. Fandall's putting you in control right from tip off. That's right. You get to choose your reward. Play it safe. Go for it. Feeling old? That's your move. Whatever your style, you're in control. No matter how you play, Fandall's giving you the power to choose your reward and own your game. This NBA season had to fandall.com slash low. My last name at low WWE. That's fandall.com slash low to make your pick get in the game and play it your way. Twenty were no over in president select states are 18 and over in president DC could tuck your Wyoming opt in required rewards are not withdrawal, restrictions apply, including bonus and token expiration, like requirements and max wage or amounts. He terms at sportsbook. Fandall.com. Gambley problem called one in a hundred gable or visit rg-elp.com. I couldn't let today pass without bringing on my old friend and colleague from ESPN, backster homes, backster. What's up, my friend? Good to be with you again, Zach. How are you? It's been a while. It's been a while. I'm good. You dropped a story yesterday. The head loud street, the headline she fired everyone inside the bus families 10 billion dollars sale of the Lakers and it is very inside about how Genie bus and three of her siblings came to the decision to sell a controlling stake in the Lakers. They still retain 17% of the Lakers, which is a loud Genie to stay on as a governor. To mark Walter and Guggenheim in his group for evaluation of 10 billion dollars over the objections of the two youngest bus siblings Jesse and Joey bus who had aspirations one day of basically running the Lakers and our basketball people to the bone. There's a lot of details in the story. A lot of bus family infighting and I think some relationships are fractured to the point of no return among the six bus siblings. The six, I guess mostly no one bus siblings. Jesse and Joey are undeniably crushed that they're out of the Lakers family and the manner in which they were sort of felt that the rug was pulled out from under them. All of that is interesting and it's sesuous and dramatic and all of that. I want to ask you just a very 10,000 feet question. If I'm a Lakers fan looking forward, looking forward, like this, this is like a very important document about how this happened. Like I want to know how this happened, why this happened. These characters have been a part of my life. Going forward, what should I take from your story? I don't know. Boy, that's a good question. I think some of the things that you've mentioned infighting and the palestine tree has been a defining feature of the Lakers really for some decades. But certainly in the post Jerry Busera since he passed away in 2013. And the Lakers have been known as a family run organization and so on and so forth. I've certainly had some people say to me, well, with the sale, there is going to be a transition and the Lakers are going to be brought up to speed in the modern era and some of the family drama and these issues are going to be a thing of the past and whatever the Lakers look like in the future. This is certainly a teen that's considered the crown jewel of the NBA and has all these advantages and a massive, massive audience and all these things. Once it's brought up to the modern era speed under Mark Walter, these things are just going to be a feature of the past and they'll be kind of gone forever. So I've definitely had some people say that to me that's what this will look like moving forward. But I do think it's important to kind of document how we got to this point and that's why I've tried to set that out to this to do in the story. For sure. And I think you actually nailed what my answer to that question was going to be, which is look, you can't look at the Bus family stewardish stewardship of the Lakers and say it's been anything but wildly successful. Now less so since the death of Dr. Bus, but still in that era they want a championship, they got LeBron, they got Luca, did they do anything to get those players or did they fall into their lap? You know, that's not, I think it's more the latter than the former, but they are the Lakers. But it's undeniable that everything you describe in your story is basically family dysfunction, which is not a good thing to have around a team of this magnitude. And I do think I took away from it as a neutral reader, like reinforcing all the stuff I've heard about from the 29 other teams being like, watch out when the Lakers go from being the mom and pop shop of the NBA to a Dodgers style super power where all of this stuff isn't infecting the environment of the team. That was like above and beyond all the drama and all the infighting and genie bus releasing a statement and the wake of the story, which we will talk about. That was why big takeaways like, man, this was, I knew it was messy because I know a lot of the main characters in the story. It was so messy. And now it's kind of, I mean, genie bus is still the governor, but it's not going to be like that anymore. Yeah, I mean, look, and to the point you just made, I've certainly had teams around the league say that it's me for years, like, you know, the other, man, the Lakers have so many advantages, things like that. But some of the infighting and the dysfunction, you know, they kind of get in their own way, so to speak. And they're, you know, when, as you mentioned, once they, they, in this new era, like, who knows where they could go, but look out, so to speak. Obviously, a lot of people look at the daughters and baseball and, and the NBA are very different, especially in terms of the salary cap. It's, yeah, look, there's a lot of takeaways that I had, but there's one thing that I wanted to mention and it really kind of stayed with me. It's a long story, but it was about how before Jerry Bus died in 2013, he mentioned to, and Johnny Bus told me this, that he was concerned about infighting amongst the siblings being an issue after he died. And so he got everybody together and said, should we just sell now and get it over with? And they agreed not to, but his fears ultimately proved correct. Like, there were various chapters of this moving forward, certainly behind the, behind the summit publicly, some of it privately, but, you know, when the eight was dry, that, that's some of those feelings still exist. And it was a defining feature, I think that kind of the legacy of the Bus family will be about, in part, about how this team was run. You know, there's, there's a lot in here. And they needed a majority of the six siblings to both, yes, on the sale. And you have Jamie Bus, who's really spoken on the record and the story on the record. You have Johnny Bus on the record, um, is how and why they decided to sell the team and take the windfall now versus other options that were presented. And I don't want to go through all the nitty gritty in your story. One of the things that you unearthed, and I had heard about this, but I, I never really chased it. And I never got the numbers, certainly like you did, was the bonuses that were paid out to among others, Curtin, Linda, Rambus. And I think Tim Harris and Craig may have far more on Tim Harris, but I think he's on the list, maybe not. Yes. That total 114 million to sort of the inner circle of Genie Bus. I think Genie would say, well, that's not unusual in, in sales of this nature to have these sort of bonus payouts that take various forms. And that's true in a lot of cases. I think other siblings would say, wait a second, that's a lot of money. And Genie Bus is in the story. And I think this is very important on the record is basically saying, we didn't know about these. And I asked when I found out about them and no one has given me an answer. No one would tell me how much, no one would tell me why. Anytime you do a story of this magnitude, there are certain things that are going to be cherry picked as like these are sort of the headline grabbing claims. This was a headline grabbing claim. So what should people, what was your reaction to it? What have you heard from maybe the Genie side through back channeling about, you know, why these bonuses exist? How much of a, how much of a sort of flashpoint for Jesse, Joey, Jani, others were these payouts? Or is it just a detail that isn't evidently going to get a ton of attention, but maybe wasn't that significant. Because my impression when I first heard about them was like, this was, this was not well received by a lot of people around the team. Yeah, well, first of all, I should say that the Lakers decline comment and multiple interview requests for Genie Bus and a host of others, including some of the people mentioned, who I just told the receives the payments you mentioned. When I first heard about it, and certainly when I was talking to Jani and to Johnny Bus about it, the underlying theme kind of leading into that was that there were, they, they believe and said that it seemed to be that there were private discussions or even negotiations that happened between Genie Bus and Mark Walter. And there were questions, um, so that some siblings had, I'm told, about whether a sibling could have private negotiations about a sale of the team and then present that as an offer. And these, the Mark Walter's offer was presented as an offer, but certainly when some of these details came out and people understood that, you know, as I reported that like a Linda Rambus stood to make 24 million or a Kirk Rambus stood to make 8 million, those numbers I'm told are not to Kobe Bryant's Jersey numbers, that, well, wait a minute, why are these people getting paid out there people that are close to you? Why are these figures? You know, it's, it's started to, in some way, seem that this was not an offer and more of a negotiation and there were questions of, well, does this violate the trust potentially? Are there, you know, was this done behind closed doors and you're trying to present it as an offer? And so there were a lot more questions about that. And I'm told that Joey and Jesse considered for its time whether to take legal action to have a judge potentially suss out, you know, what's in the trust? Was this done above board? So on so forth, they didn't do that ultimately. As you mentioned, a majority of the bus family agreed to sell the team. They, and it was a unanimous vote ultimately. And that's it. I think also it's probably daunting in some ways to go against Mark Walter in a wrong legal battle. And, but at the end of the day, you know, the votes were the votes and I'm told that Joey and Jesse understood that, but there's still some of those questions remaining, certainly about the payments. And I heard from others close to the team who those figures stuck out to them. I'll put it that way. Yeah, honestly, like, we can go relitigate the sale. Why then? Why now? Was the Celtic selling a $6 billion valuation? How much did that spur it on and on? My general takeaway was like, this is all really sad. Like, this is just all to see a family just broken apart like this and siblings at each other's throats and siblings orchestrating potentially the firing of other siblings and the two youngest ones who thought that the Lakers were going to be their life forever, getting boxed out of it. It's just it's just like it made the whole thing just made me sad. Honestly, I think the sadness has been I think people look at these people, well, they're all billionaires, billionaires, like, their problems are real problems. And I get that. But family is family, man, that's there's some stuff in there. It's like, that stuff is sad. So that was a defining piece of feedback that I got from people around the team close to, you know, who work there, things like that. Like, this is just really sad. Even for the winners, it's sad. Like no one wins when you just lose your family like this. Totally. And, and, you know, obviously, people on the outside would say, well, they're all rich in the end, but it's like rich, but it is a fractured family. Some of these things are really hard to kind of process. You know, the idea of, you know, you mentioned Joey and Jesse wanting to carry on their father's legacy and and lead the Lakers into the future, which was something that a number of people had told me, including people who were with Jerry Busce in the final days of his life that he had articulated. And it's all over. And I don't, I mean, I look, I'm not in the position financially to that any of them are. So I can't speak to it. But I, the sadness was definitely something that a lot of people from all walks and around the league said to me was like, just to take away of how this whole thing ended. I just think it's one of those things like they've often been compared to the Roy family and succession and all of this. But it, it is one of those things where when they all zoom out of this in 20 years, they're going to be like, man, how did it, how did it get like that? Like, how did this happen to us? I want to share something that Johnny, but this is kind of from the cutting room floor. So Johnny Busce had said to me, he said, like being a part of the Lakers ownership was a roller coaster of ups and downs. And you know, he mentioned that at times when the family can get together, they could be laughing and it could be jovial. You know, we had nothing to do with the Lakers. But when they would talk about the Lakers at times, and this is principally of, you know, for obviously a long time amongst the four older siblings, he said, but then when the conversation between the Lakers was like, all right, who had what role? Why did dad pick this person over this person? Where over me? How are they fearing? Why did I not get this opportunity? Like he said, the Lakers were the tension point in the family. And he said during those downs of the roller coaster, sometimes like another sibling might come to me and say, should we just get out like, this is miserable. Why don't we just sell and we can all like walk away from the team? You know, he told me, and then he said, and then the roller coaster would be up again and things would be good and like, oh, this is great. He said, but it was always like these extreme highs and lows. And he told me that he started to think even back in the 90s, like, you know, it would be just great if we could all get away from this thing. It was, I mean, the way he described it was almost, I know this will sound whatever, but it was like a toxic asset that was really driving the family apart and against each other. And that, you know, people had told me for a time that for a long time, the Jerry Bus was like the glue trying to hold this family together, trying to hold these siblings together or his children together and amongst so much fighting and division and jealousy and whatnot, you know, the Hulu series that Genie and Linda Rambez co-executive produce really gets into a lot of the specific details in all these chapters throughout the years. And, you know, Johnny, when he said, look, with all the money that everybody got, you'd think that we could be happy we can come together and we could celebrate, but obviously that's not going to happen, you know, and there's so much bitterness and it's hurtful, but it's the end of an era. And he wanted to be hopeful and say that, you know, maybe at some point down the road, they could all be as one. I don't know, I'm not optimistic that that happens, especially given the way things, you know, went down when, when, when Jayny Bus was telling me about how, you know, being fired and pleading to resign instead and not being given that option and feeling like a crumpled up piece of paper and then, you know, thrown in the trash, there's a lot of bitterness there. I don't know that any dollar amounts going to make it go away. LeBron comes into the story and you had to know as the author that anything LeBron related is going to be pulled out and examined almost separately from anything else because he's such a lightning run. And you talk about it in the context of sort of rivalries and fishers developing within the organization and you posit that one of those was between maybe Genie and her inner circle and LeBron and his inner circle that there was resentment over the amount of power that clutch was trying to seize and all of this and that there was even an openness at some point to trading LeBron and you mentioned the clippers as a team that's been floated. So I read that and I remembered flashing back to All Star 2022 in Cleveland when LeBron in an interview with Jason Lloyd sort of opens the door to I'm not sort of says I'm not closing the door on coming back to Cleveland at some point in my career. And that ignited a firestorm of speculation inside the league. And I remember talking to people at clutch at the time being like, look, I know he loves Los Angeles. If this Lakers thing ever runs its course, like there's another team in Los Angeles and they immediately shot that down to me is like he's never going to go to the clippers. That's not going to happen. He wants to stay with the Lakers. Then I flash forward to 2024 trade deadline. Wojian Ramona report that there's some backtuning between the warriors and the Lakers about the Lakers trading LeBron to Golden State for whatever package. And in the story, it's reported that basically Genie bus told the Warriors the Lakers had no desire to trade James but that he would need to seek the answer on James state of mind from his agent clutch CEO Rich Paul. And so basically like the Lakers like well we don't want to trade him but check with his agent. I always read that and other people around the league read that is like well Rich Paul says yeah like we're not like then we then we guess I guess we got to have a meeting like. And then Genie pushed back at you and the story and says I don't understand why LeBron is being dragged into a bus family drama story. And so I would just put it to you. Why is LeBron in the story? Like what what what connection is the that Fisher opening up have to the broader story in your mind? Yeah so I want to say it was around like 2024. Well really I mean in some years after their championship in 2020 but and even after the Western conference finals in 2023 people in the organization described you know seeing Genie sort of change and becoming more consumed with criticism or for or the organization taking things personally and so on. And what those people said was we had you know Genie had been known for in the past turning against people who had been important to the Lakers important to her whether it was Jerry West in the past whether it was firing her own brother Jim bus in 2017. So they had noticed a pattern and they had they had seen also that pattern emerge more and more especially by that time with LeBron James. You know you outlined some of the things I get into it more in depth in the story but the framing of the tension with LeBron was more about Genie and a time period of seeing her as people told me change and so that was under the that was the framework that we felt it was important to include. Well I also read it as sort of contributing to the idea that like if I'm staring at a payout of X amount is all this public scrutiny and stress across all fronts sort of worth it for me to continue doing. And LeBron a potential PR battle with the fans or about LeBron was part of that and by the way like this story comes out it's kind of just assume it around the league that LeBron's I could be on the Lakers next year by sort of mutual choice I guess I don't know how true that is no one knows what LeBron is going to do. It'll be interesting in the wake of this to see how the Lakers sort of handle the future of LeBron but I read it as sort of part of the I can I can excise all of this or I mean she's still the governor of the team but you know what I mean like I can I'm not I may not be the hammer anymore for all of this public scrutiny. Yeah and you know look people in the community organization described like seeing Genie kind of change and also wondering if she had reached a tipping point and that all of this some of the things that you just mentioned you know which she just she just want to sell and get away from this. And ultimately that's what happened and I've had people ask me like we know with how does this impact LeBron do you see him on the Lakers before I mean look his contract is up after this season he's 41 I think his his health is going to be a huge factor with with everything especially if someone is a his age and the amount of miles on his body he's obviously played I mean without precedent for anybody his age like he's playing at an incredible level so I don't know where it kind of holds but certainly as does I learn more from my reporting these things have been going on for a while. I've I've ranked in terms of the three outcomes for LeBron 202627 I've ranked back with the Lakers as third behind in some oscillating order retirement or retirement or potentially with Cleveland but even like I've had people remind me like you know let's say Cleveland gets to the conference finals or whatever and they have a young nucleus and maybe they've straight won they do something it's like it's a lot it's a lot to just clop onto a team like that because even if you sign for the minimum or the middle level exception it's still LeBron and all that comes the attention the scrutiny the fact that he's going to have a large role in your offense like it's it's not it's not just fun and games and just ceremonial kind of stuff and the last thing I will say like you got me yesterday going back through all the Lakers drama because you go through when the the genie sort of firing Jim bus and Mitch Cup track and then Jim bus filing litigation I think to try to oh to try to be in say himself and then a board of directors thing and like I just kind of think if there's just been so much stuff like like your brain just forgets remember when magic Johnson just quit during a press conference like out of nowhere and I was saying Johnson went on was it Kimmel or Fallon where he's winking about Paul George and gets finally just just been so much stuff it's like my god it's it's been a lot you know I was standing probably five feet away from magic Johnson when he suddenly resigned from the Lakers and that remains one of the most you know unbelievable is a word that gets drawn around a lot but that remains one of the most unbelievable like moments of my reporting career but yes everything from you know some of the things you mentioned to certainly to now and some of the things I've learned about and very little of them have anything to do with basketball or with like winning on the court it's been all these other things it's been a lot it's been a lot well backster homes I don't want to get too much into it because people need to read the story on usb and dot com I think it's no no subscription required I can't remember if it's in it's in plus or not it's fantastic and like this is the bus family is a giant in sports and entertainment circles and this is sort of the coda to it the reporting is is airtight I mean even genie and her statement didn't dispute any of the reporting she just said I wish LeBron's name wasn't in this basically like we love LeBron et cetera it's history and it's a historical document so congrats on a great story it's great to see you and hopefully I'll see you soon in Los Angeles it's great to be with you man great to see you I hope to see you soon thanks for having me Matt's Corner okay so Sean Fenison and I recorded yesterday Wednesday about Luis Robert Jr. about Boba Shed about being optimistic and interested in this new look met's team and we talked about how well pitching man like the starting pitching it's kind of a disaster last year the bullpen's a little bit of a mess like there's got to be a move coming and we talked specifically about Freddie Peralta and we talked specifically about Freddie Peralta for jet Williams and Brandon's Brode and bam a few hours later that exact trade happens Freddie Peralta is he an ace ace I don't know five and a third innings on average last year it's not as long as I would like I guess no one throws long anymore certainly no one on the bets through long anymore but he's been an all-star he's consistent ERA whip all the fancy stuff ERA plus all really good God knows the bets needed an ace and I remember I remember vividly the day the match traded for Mike Piazza walking around my college campus it was beautiful it was May sun was out birds were singing and I was walking around almost just like looking for other met's fans to celebrate with and I didn't even care who they traded like Preston Wilson Eddie R. Nell whatever I don't care if these guys become amazing 10 years down the line we got Mike Piazza we got a master got an actual dude and this trade now I'm whatever you that was what 1998 so it's a million years later now I'm a you know adult person I cover a professional sport and analyze trades for a living in the valuation of draft picks this one's kind of baptism by fire for me because the matches gave up two of their top five or six young players I mean sprot is 25 years old jet Williams is positional future with the matches on clear is five seven whatever but they're like two of the top they're real guys for a pitcher on an expiring contract now they can resign him and probably will I would imagine given the price they paid and they certainly need a pitcher they got a reliever this guy Tobias Myers who's apparently pretty good and they need good relievers so that's not just a throw in but it's a high price man and it's funny baseball so different from the NBA and the NBA draft picks before they're made are just these beautiful mysteries you they could be anything they can go into the lottery and move up they can move down they could be any player and then you pick a player and they become a human being and you drive the car off the lot and then you see that human being play in the NBA and baseball look I'm not sitting here like I'm a meds fan but I've never seen jet Williams play I've seen sprote pitch over many games he pitched for the meds they sort of hover in this draft picks become people but there's still mysteries I certainly don't know how to project any of these guys going forward that's that's David Stern's job and he's concluded that the paralta is worth this and so I'm not as high in the sky about it as I was when they got piazza and I just didn't give a fuck about what price they paid but boy I'm excited this is a exciting times the meds have had an on a hot streak shenan I talk about it and we end by saying you know all I want is like like Steve Galips who's their unbelievable dug out report I guess you call it for S&Y he's fantastic he had an Instagram thing last night where he's like now there are a world series contender I mean maybe I don't know like they still like the rotation is still most of what it was last year that failed and the bull pet is still a little bit of a question the Dodgers exists are they a world series contender I maybe I don't know but I said at the at the end of meds corner which I think you'll enjoy with Sean that all I want is just let me get to September in the games matter just can we just like I'll take 85 wins 88 wins transitional year just keep like let us be in contention for a wild card let the games matter well now my expectations are higher than that I'm happy and we get into it all on meds corner with Sean that we record yesterday we get into the shed in Robert Jr. and everything wow let's go meds baby hope you enjoy it's time that's right baseball season pictures and catchers is coming up the meds we got a remade roster Sean fantasy the angst of Peter Lonzo we miss you gone Edwin Diaz that's the one actually a most heartbreaking heartbroken about Nimmo all that we don't quite have a set in stone pitching staff yet which seems like a problem in baseball pitching is important but last night you texted me you broke the news to me Luis Robert Jr. after many rumors is now a met and presumably the center fielder and I'm just gonna say I think I manifested boba shed because I was in Manhattan I had a few meetings on Friday and I've been saying to myself my daughter's birthday is coming up and I need a meds hat so these two things in my head is like as I'm walking through Midtown if I see a place that sells meds related paraphernalia I'm gonna walk in and I'm gonna spend some money and I passed by a lids knowing that this is not gonna be cheap and I bought two meds hats and I bought my daughter a birthday present that she'll be remain nameless and as soon as I walked out the store of the meds sign boba shed and so here we are how are you feeling about this at the very least I have a lot of questions about the pitching and I think we all do there feels like another move to come with some of the the decent young hitters who have questionable places now in the line-up at the very least I am curious about how this may be deeper but less powerful like lineup might be like I I'm curious are you how are you feeling I'm feeling pretty positive I have to be honest with you and I'm so glad that we did not do this at any other time up until this moment because as recently as seven days ago I was legitimately concerned and depressed about the direction that they were taking and we did talk about this when Alonzo and Diaz left about like kind of what was the Stern's plan was it let's just have kids play and turn over this core roster which he essentially fully did he he traded away the entire core with the exception of Francis Gollendor and Nimmo McNeil and letting Alonzo walk in free agency and Diaz as well but what I speculated could be possible which was that he really wanted the kids to develop and that that's where the team was going wasn't really true he did what he should be doing as the general manager of a team with an incredibly wealthy owner which is being incredibly opportunistic the boba shed signing after not getting Kyle Tucker trading for Luis Robert Jr. for not very much in Luis and Helikunya a player that I like but who is a utility in fielder and rebuilding the roster strengthening their defense up the middle I mean Marcus Simeon Francisco Lendor Luis Robert Jr. and Francisco Alvarez is as good enough the middle defense as there is in baseball right now and their their lineup is really interesting because if they get a couple of bouncebacks from some key candidates and they get basically average production from the rest of the lineup they're going to be tough they have hitters who hit with runners in scoring position they have guys who see a lot of pitches they're going to be annoying to pitch to and on top of that it gives you a little bit of breathing room for Carson Bench to develop now you don't feel like he has to be good and if he's easier left field or the future all of a sudden I don't know the Stern's master class phrase is back on my mind after feeling as low as I have about him since he came here. Well and also they've done the thing where opportunistic but also short term right like the shed could be a one year deal it's got options on it Luis Robert Jr. I guess has one year left and then a team option where we can buy him out for $2 million which $2 million to us you and I Sean Pence who cares like it's not money to a giant Zach buy him out and and move on yeah you look at this team and it's it also did all of this is again a reminder of how little I know about any of this and how fun it is to be an ignoramus so like I'm learning things like or I'm asking things like huh venens whale and winter league baseball does this matter that akunya is hitting like like pitalonzo in the venens whale winter league or is he still because I watched him play and it was like can is he just ray or donia's 2.0 but fast can he not hit at all I don't know the answer to this I read a stat that 24 of his 41 hits in major league baseball last year were infield hits that's the kind of player he is. But you look at this like I'm just going to go around the infield diamond now Alvarez and torrents at catcher love it I'm excited about Alvarez if you could just keep his hands and thumbs and wrists out of harm's way that dude can hit pylonco at first base we'll see I don't know right see me hit but we'll see about the defense we know he's had some strong some good hitting years defense we'll see simian I mean happy for a change of pace lendoor is lendoor but shit at third I guess we'll see about that he's apparently a horrible defensive shortstop but maybe at third he'll be better I will I will say the more I learned about him my I learned about him in the playoffs obviously I watched game seven of the world series where he had a home run on you know one leg or whatever his injury was the more I learned about him I have always in my in my peak baseball fandom I always valued walks and I always loved hitters who saw a lot of pitches who were annoying as shit who would foul off seven pitches it's what always made me so both so hate and so admire the peak Yankees teams because they just collected guys who would get your starting pitcher out of the game in six innings by being fucking annoying and the shit I guess does this he just fouls off tons of pitches he puts the ball in play and especially in the fast in the pitch clock era and I can't step out the batter's box and adjust every one of my appendages after every pitch I love a guy who sees a lot of pitches I'm going to like this guy outfield we've got sodo obviously and Rob tell me about Luis Robert because obviously injuries have been a huge thing with him he's had very few like full seasons offense way up and down defensively he's supposed to be unbelievable he steals a lot of bases this seems like a bet on a bounce back healthy like could he be as good as Nimo offensively almost if all things hit but I'm excited to watch some good fielders make some good plays I'll tell you that much. Uh you know one he's been playing in kind of the wasteland of the Chicago white socks for the last few years and so because of that he has not been as visible a figure in 2023 he was straight up one of the best players in baseball he had third-aid home runs goal goal of defense he was he looked like a like a building block not just for the white socks but for baseball and he's had a lot of injuries and had a dramatic reduction in his offensive production still a really really good defensive player he's only 28 years old I like that I like that and boba shuts like around that age two right he's 27 yes which is something I wanted to point out to you which is like we've gotten a lot younger which is exciting for a team that has been one of the oldest teams in baseball for the last seven years but you know Robert was just not a very good offensive player last year at all he he had an 84 OPS plus that's that's not good that is Tyrone Taylor level offensive the thing is his bat speed is still among the best in the league he's still one of the fastest players in league he had a 290 opiate or on base percentage last year it's still still 30 bases like he is an elite speedster who plays good defense he's automatically an upgrade over whatever they were running out there last year last year the offensive production that they got at a center field was by far the worst in the league I think they got six home runs total from the players in the position I can tell you a very proud parenting moment for me this morning my daughter gets out of bed I've been up working for a bit reading about this and other things I say and we're getting ready for school so I'm out I forgot to tell you while you were asleep the meds made a trade well with they trade you know she's over the concern that it's going to be lindaur she doesn't ask me anywhere she assumes lindaur is going to be around she said who they trade well I said member akunya and she said oh but he was so fast like he would always get he would always run and and I'm like yeah but that's like all he did he would put the big stupid ovenman on and get and run and and she was like well what did we get and I said well we got this guy Louis Robert Jr who plays center field and they've been looking at him for a long time and she goes daddy center field isn't that why we got strike out king last year to play center field strike out king as you might recall is her nickname for cedric mullins who she hates with every fiber for body so my little daughter who just didn't even know what a triple was six months ago is now putting things together like oh we tried to fill that position with this guy who ended up sucking and I hate him maybe this new guy will be interesting that was a fun moment for me well first of all she's becoming a great fan because nicknames like strike out king that's that's really what being a meds fan is made of uh I do think that there's something cool going on with bishet and robber too which is they seem to have identified players who have dramatically reduced their strike out rate this is also true for polanco over the course of a number of years because they were a very strike out heavy team and now to your point about the guys who see pitches I mean nobody sees more pitches than one soda oh he's got the strongest eye in the sport and they're it's gonna be really hard I think because of the the havoc they're gonna wreak on the base base pads and the number of pitches that they're gonna force pitchers into and that is where a lot of their success in 2024 and 2022 came from too was being guys who really worked counts well so that's exciting the thing with Robert and the thing with bishet though they're injury prone it's highly possible that both of these moves blow up in their face they're only one your commitment so it's not that big of a deal and this is exactly what steep cone should be doing in the run up to what is likely going to be a new cba that changes the dynamics of baseball but if they hit the upside with both guys they're gonna be good man they're gonna be a really good lineup I'm glad you mentioned the cba stuff because obviously there was a lot of iron remains a lot of iron that the Dodgers of all teams signed Kyle Tucker after stealing Edwin Diaz from us and I get it like everyone's like oh we got stop baseball baseball's broken we need a lockout we need a cap we need all these things curse the Dodgers they're stealing all the good players look I don't know much about baseball Sean but it's it's a it's a lot less predictable than basketball for instance and I'm just telling you this right now when they don't win the World Series next year I don't care who beat them because the odds are against the Dodgers win in the World Series I don't I mean maybe they're not maybe Dodgers overfield is like a real thing that is they're that good but people get injured baseball's weird they almost lost last year now they got better but they almost lost I'm just saying like what if and when they lose I will take great pleasure and I never thought in my life I always kind of like to Dodgers I think their hats cool their uniforms cool chavez are being as cool piazza started with them I now hate to Dodgers it did happen fast for me I think the Kyle Tucker move pushed people over the edge and I think that that there's a lot it been a lot of reporting by the national media in the last week or so since the Tucker signing that it's now clear that something is going to change when the negotiation happens who knows if there's going to be a lockout it would be terrible for baseball if there's a lockout because the sport has a tremendous amount of momentum guys like you were coming back to the sport because the speed of play the rule changes there's a wave of exciting players that are at the center of the sport now they've just they've improved the product a lot a lot of big market teams are very competitive that always helps frankly dynasties help you know this covering the NBA like it's it's it's powerful for a sport to have not just a villain but a team full of very recognizable faces the Dodgers right now are plus 220 to win the world series according to fandall that's not minus that's still plus 220 the Yankees are pretty far behind at plus 950 the Mets are plus 1600 the Mets if they trade for Freddie Peralta or someone like that that number is going to shoot up yeah let's go so do you think that's going to happen do you think we're going to get a real real ace type pitcher in the next two weeks all right so here here's here's I just named eight position players left field was the only position that is I just have question mark maybe it's bench maybe it's a platoon we didn't name vientos who had a monster last 60 games after a weirdly bad first 100 games after a monster postseason year before baby who I like Mauricio who is tantalizing can any of those people play left field if not there's obviously a DH spot we you know rotate guys through that give give the shed some DH trep whatever it takes to just mix it everybody it does feel like it does feel like a trade is possible and this is like the like the starting rotation right now is I guess McLean Peterson Monaya whatever is left of Senka if there's anything left and then like homes was pretty good last year tongue like those are seven guys I just named it was this it's the same rotation plus a full season of McLean I guess I wouldn't underestimate Christian Scott as well who's coming off of Tommy John I was going to ask you about it to Tommy John does everyone get Tommy John McGill is out for the season Garrett's out for the season Minter's coming back at some point this year to who's this other person who's Christian Scott Christian Scott was a hotly tabbed pitching prospect about three years ago for the team he came up and made some six or seven starts and showed promise he struggled a little bit but he has good stuff and could command and he got injured and I wouldn't say it was a good thing that he got injured but they now I think they really want to get a look at him on a major league level because if he is able to pitch and you know it's almost seems certain that McLean's going to make the rotation it gives you just more flexibility we might be looking at the final year of David Peterson right now I like I'm going to have two more years of Senka and Monaya Peterson slumped as you know in the last third of the season but I give him a lot of credit for being kind of an iron man the ground ball was turned against him right like every time I would watch him be like man this guy induces a lot of double plays that's great and then my smart sports fan brain would be like those hard hit grounders that are going right to Lindor are probably going to go like up the middle pretty soon and I feel that's basically what happened yeah I think part of it too is just that the workload really caught up to him and he was the only consistently healthy pitcher besides clay homes in that rotation all season and he's the kind of guy who I think he could have used a kind of like quiet three week phantom IL stint in August to be ready for the playoffs and he didn't get it and he ran out of gas so look the eight guys that we've just named for the rotation Nolan McLean has potential a stuff but he's still a rookie everybody else has flashed and at times has seemed elite David Peterson's a former all star Sean Monaya was essential in 2024 Kodai Senka in the first half of this season was among the best pitchers in the sport but they don't have that consistency they don't have a guy who throws 180 innings with 220 strikeouts every year with a five year track record that's really what they've been looking for it's why they signed Justin Berlander it's why they signed Mac sure is there ever since Jacob DeGroin left they've been looking for Jacob DeGroin just before we started recording there was a report that Jonah Tongue's name came up and talks with the brewers about Freddie Peralta the met said no the brewers have since reportedly submitted an offer Brandon Sprote and Jet Williams for Peralta. Peralta is not not Max Fried you know he's not Tark Scoobal but he's really in that next layer down he's on a one year deal with the brewers for eight million dollars and then he's a free agent obviously David Sterns knows a little bit about Freddie Peralta because he was there when they developed him as a pitcher for Milwaukee if you put Freddie Peralta in this rotation and you trade Brandon Sprote and you trade Jet Williams Jet Williams who's a top 50 prospect in baseball as you say that's an aim I've heard almost as much I heard Bench you know they were like having this minor league who's the future centerfielder for the Metz battle and Tongue looks or Sprote Sprote looks solid you look a little bit more like workman like than your typical like high level prospect. Freddie Peralta I'm just looking I mean he had a great year last year five straight years sub for ERA 170 plus earnings I mean this is what we're talking about it's it's like this infield this revamped infield and Robert Jr. and centerfield it's cool it's probably a deeper lineup than the Metz had last year I am going to miss the presence of like a second absolute masher behind Soto it always when you have a guy who with one swing can change a whole game it's like a little security blanket and Lindor is very good he's not quite a masher in the sense that Alonzo was a masher but this is a deep fun lineup this is like that's cool and it'll help and you could win 82 games with that lineup and like blah pitching if you're going to be a serious team this is the same rotation again plus McLean that was like oh another four and two thirds out of a MedStarter and it's not like the bullpen is some like proven murderers row of arms it's remade with weaver and airbender and all that but it's I don't know what to make of it. Yeah even Peralta is not like a a length guy you know he very rarely pitched more than six and innings per star you can go back and look at his games per I don't think he ever pitched seven innings in a single game last season but he had a great season so this sport is changing in that way specifically McLean looks like the kind of guy who's going to be able to give you eight innings and start which is really exciting but those are fewer and far between there might also be another guy who's out there who we don't know I don't think Tark school was happening it still kills me that they didn't trade for Gerrard crochet last year that was the move and they held on to a bunch of guys who some of whom may pan out some of whom may not but that was really the pitcher who made the most sense for this team over time and I'm going to regret that forever they would have been in the playoffs if they had Gerrard crochet last year they would have been an incredible position long term if they had locked him down they don't have that they got to find that guy maybe McLean and somebody else become that guy the other thing too is like their pitching lab is still really good and they're still able to develop if you look at the way that a lot of the arms that are in the system have developed they're kind of exceeding their expectations coming out of the draft there's a whole other class of guys you know Jonathan Santucci Jack Weninger like we're not talking about those guys yet but this season watch them in AA and Triple A start to emerge they have a lot of pitching depth over time it's just that we are really over familiar with this really mediocre MLB staff and it does feel like they need to change it up if they want to compete this year I feel better about this year I feel more invested in the team now than I did two months ago you know I'm sad about Pete but I never thought he was coming back I just didn't think that that made sense it was very clear that that wasn't what Stern's wanted so once we get over that stuff and we start seeing Boba Shet who's gonna hit 50 doubles at City Field I mean if he's healthy he's gonna hit 50 doubles he's that's not 40 home run power from Pete Alonzo but it's essentially as effective it's gonna be fun to watch them I think they're gonna be fun to watch for sure and I'm excited to learn all these new players and have better defense and not be frustrated by the sort of omission of good defensive plays and also the coal mission of bad defensive plays I saw I was at the Nick's Mavericks disaster for the Nick's the other night's your Nick's I'm sorry thanks for bringing that up yeah but Jay Trianau is an assistant coach for for the Mavs and and he's Canadian and from the Toronto area a huge blue jays fan and I was gonna and I was saying like are you upset but shut left like what was I expecting you was like you guys are gonna absolutely love this dude like total gamer just great guy like I'm not even mad he left I love that he was so excited and you mentioned health as someone who comes from the NBA where there is load management and just constant injury issues I did not even in my rookie year coming back into baseball I did not take it for granted for one second that Alonzo's Soto in the Lindor were in the lineup more or less every game and in Alonzo's case literally every game like I understand that that's a that kind of dependability is like all right there's a one in four chance this guy's gonna hit a home run today like every single game that they play is is a is a huge deal the same as you're a brand in NIMO who in the first half of his career was often injured and he worked really hard to play all the time so we were really familiar with seeing the same team out there every single day McNeil played every single day this is more of a gamble this is clearly more of a gamble with this with this roster Marcus Emmey and 37 years old like this isn't this is there is a lot of risk in this constructions it's also clear I mean we've sort of tipped out around a little bit but it's also just crystal clear that no matter what said and unsaid and we talked about the fake raccoon fight that they made up clearly there was something borderline toxic fume hanging over this clubhouse last year that they've just decided by hooker by crook we just got to bring in a bunch of new dudes and just change change the mood change the vibes and I like maybe some of it really was politics that's come out a little bit in the last few weeks with Lindor's wife but something with something was just wrong with the team and it run its course and that happens in sports like sometimes just like it's time to just change some stuff I'm still a little bit iffy on the semi in for NIMO deal but the thing you heard immediately about Marcus Emmey and was basically hardest working guy in the sport like nobody puts in more hours trying to excel at the game than he does and you more or less have heard the same thing you know last night there were all these reports about how Luis Robert has spent the entire offseason working out at the Boris facility because he also was a very hard working guy in bobechette as you told in that anecdote about jatriano like kind of universally beloved in toronto son of a former ball player insane work ethic loves the game kind of everything you want from a young infielder who has pop so I like the personality construction that they put together of like hard working guys very few of whom are a plus stars but all of them have contributed to winning ball clubs over the last years you know Marcus emian is a player who's played in the world series bobechette's played in the world series Jorge Polanco was just in the LCS like they have been in big spots the thing that the mets have not done well during that previous core was they got tight in big spots they did not hit in the clutch they were terrible runners in scoring position for seven years the mets have been really bad or at least I have felt like really a bad situational hitting team I'll look forward to watching a more professional team in that specific respect but we need an arm still man we need and maybe another arm in the bullpen too like I was looking at the bullpen this morning and it's like okay so let me just tell you who I think is definitely in there was car bras a bond a j mentor Brooks Rayleigh Luke Weaver and Devon Williams those five players I think have a spot there's two other spots that are open right now if you're telling me that it's going to be dicky love lady and Joey Gerber wait is to see go by dicky or is that just a pejorative that fans use no I mean it's it's I think he's richer with love lady but dicky has been has been proffered so it's not like Harry Barnes when when Wise wants to make fun of Harrison Barnes it's a Terry bars dicky love lady now I'm rooting for him now I'm that I don't know anything about this guy now I'm rooting for dicky love lady to come in there here comes dicky he's a journeyman unfortunately for us although we might have to get was on a mets corner you know that's that's the one thing that the three of us share oh yeah we got we got to do yeah no look the if they want to be an actual serious team the pitching probably isn't good enough so jet Williams I've heard the name a lot I mentioned the venens well and winter league joke with akunya that I but I don't really I just don't know the art of projecting prospect so I look at his minor league stats I have that I had them up this morning I have them up now and I see his rank you know whatever baseball prospectus top whatever he's only barely is 22 right so like he's already very young he's minor league stats like I'm looking at just last year in double a triple a um total 34 double 17 homers 52 RBI's 828 OPS like that's pretty good I don't know what do great minor league players do what is he supposed to be is if he were like a 40 home run kind of hitter would we already be seeing this what is he supposed to be he's never going to be that guy he's five foot seven he's really undersized he's small he's fast tough and he gets on base he had a 390 on base percentage at double a last year that's the thing that he does he gets on base and you know I am looking at his on base percentages like let me get it single a whatever but 425 360 471 like they're high he is a he's a very similar to all the like look at his strikeout numbers like he doesn't really strike out very much relative to what a guy like him would do he has some pop but to me he is gosh I'm trying to think of who's what's an adequate comp I mean what they want him to be is Dustin Pajroya right like an undersized second baseman with some pop who's going to hit between like 50 and 75 extra base hits a season who's going to play crisp defense clean up the middle I think he's probably the heir to the Marcus Imihan job if he develops this season he's still got to develop he he got really sidetracked because he got really badly injured in 2024 and he didn't really play very many games and this year or last year I should say he kind of he had a positive mostly positive minor league season but maybe not as mind blowing as we had hoped I'm hopeful that this year through the first 70 games of the minor league season he looks like a guy who's just destined for the show before the end of the season I stupidly didn't even realize that he was also an infielder in addition to being an outfielder and that makes me like him much much more is he like when you when you mentioned him plus sprote for potentially one year of Peralta that seems is that reckless would you actually do that it's a lot I think I think jet for the last three years has been considered like a prized pony among prospects and I think he he feels destined to be a beloved met to me like I've kind of always since he was drafted I've thought of him as like he's just like kind of a get dirty kind of player that you really love rooting for and I would have a hard time parting with him but the truth is if you want a player like Freddie Peralta you got to give up to get you just got to give up to get and they haven't given up a single elite prospect since they traded p-crow Armstrong for hobby bias and that probably that score by then yeah that ideal fucking sucks by the way you know what I've correct me if I'm if I'm misremembering this but we were talking about the Dodgers and the inevitability of the Dodgers it wasn't that long ago where they were the regular season juggernaut who lost earlier in the playoffs every time right except for the covid year where they won the fake world series I'm just I'm just hot take I'm just calling it a fake world series I don't even know anything about it except the dude came out with covid and got people sick it made me potentially in the photograph is that what you say to leaker fans too. No the bubble title is real and I get lambasted for saying that sometimes. What's that wasn't that like a 60 game baseball season or something? Yeah. But wasn't it am I remembering this right that in the wake of like the third consecutive early Dodgers exit after they win 100 plus games there was like a wave of writing and podcasting about like well is it fair that baseball series are so short that the best regular season team is like so prone to elimination should we get the best of five series out it's not fair they dominate the whole season and I have the best team and then they lose three games and it's over to my misremembering that level of whining because I really enjoyed that in my head I remember being like these fucking pathetic fans this is and the fan these pathetic media cheerleaders who are so heartbroken about the Dodgers they want to restructure baseball after 100 years are they just realizing that baseball series are short and unpredictable now because it happened to their poor little team that could have to cop to something I was one of those fans who was whining I didn't like it either I still don't totally what do you want best of 11 what I don't want to say I'm sorry I find best of three to be a little bit unfair now it makes the playoffs more exciting a lot of that conversation around the Dodgers and some other teams but specifically around the Dodgers was oriented around it was pre it was pre-o time and then Otoni signed with the Dodgers and there is like just a very clear wheat and chaff thing going on in the sport now everyone's like can we have best of one for the Dodgers in the playoffs have a bad Dodgers true that is really what we want I mean hey look give the blue jays credit man they took him to the brink they could have won that world like this this much and home plate this much yes so with baseball you never know tacking Kyle Tucker on that line up hurts a lot I don't know what to tell you like Kyle Tucker is legitimately one of the 10 best hitters in the sport he's now a Dodger she how how on the Durant going to the Warriors I mean there is not anything like the because basketball one guy can make such a difference but is there any part of Kyle Tucker I don't know Kyle Tucker could walk down my street right now wearing a Dodgers uniform and I'd be like oh I guess one of my neighbors is a Dodgers fan that makes it worse that he's like a non-o genius like nobody even knows who he is so I mean this in no judgment at all I didn't really even care much that Durant went to the Warriors I didn't make any moral judgment on him I thought it was bad for the sport should Kyle Tucker be like should these guys be a little embarrassed and chagrin or is like is is that not a thing in baseball you just take the money and go where you go I mean he and Boba Shatt were just paid absurd amounts of money relative to their success in the sport you know when when when Otani got the deal that he got and then Soto got the deal that he got you can be like okay those are two of the three best players of the last 10 years in baseball you know along with Aaron judge those are the three best players maybe Bryce Harper is in that conversation a couple of other guys but all right Wandsoto was like a generational hitter show hey Otani is a we've not seen this in a century of the sport Kyle Tucker is a good outfielder he's a very very good outfielder Boba Shatt is a poor shortstop but a very very good hitter the idea of those guys making anywhere between 45 and 60 million dollars a year we've just not seen a purport and so getting our heads around it and you've got to consider also these are two teams that are in the tax so they're effectively paying 120 million dollars for Kyle Tucker that's a lot that's like it's hard to fathom that that's the sort of thing that when my dad would grow about salaries when I was a kid watching baseball and it would be like David Justice was guaranteed three million dollars can you effing believe this I was always like you don't get it old man this is great for players this is great for the sport we want it and we live in New York we want these guys to be paid we haven't even talked about Carlos Beltran who once upon a time got a huge deal from the New York Metz and is now going into the Hall of Fame almost certainly with a Metz hat on but 120 million dollar outlay for Kyle Tucker is breaking my brain that is actually a hard to fathom it's interesting so my dad was completely different he would he would say look when the salary is really starting to jump in every sport he would say look it's a lot but Zach who do you want to get the money the the players you like to watch play or like the Anonymous billionaire fat cat you don't even know what he does for a living and how he got his money and I would be like well the players seem like the more fun but look here's the bottom line your dad was a wise man by the way I'm excited about this team I'm excited about the revamp lineup I'm excited just watch some new toys play the pitching needs an upgrade and if they get a little upgrade a pitching can all here's all I want out of what seems to be sort of a transitional year for the Metz loading up on short term contracts just get I just want a year where I'm invested in every game I don't want to be I don't want September to roll around and their 10 games will go 500 in every game is just like can we just get to the next season if they win 85 games and they're in the running for one of the 17 wild card spots that exist in baseball now cool I just like jing jing jing jing and I think this team should be able to be at least that maybe around that I don't know one thing I've really enjoyed and I don't mind tempting their iron is that this has a really frustrated Philly's fans stealing bobe shut from the Phillies has obviously really angered them they're very quick to point out the irrationality of the deal and then also Luis Robert Jr. was a essential target for them as well and the fact that they had to pivot to pay 35 year old JT rail mootow a three or 45 million dollar they didn't see my Philly's fans friends did not seem happy about that I mean it's just not a good deal like at JT rail mootow has been a really good player for a really long time and he seems to be really important to that team I don't want to denigrate him personally but that did I don't I don't know single person thinks that's that that's a good idea and they pivoted hard off of it because of the wound of not getting the shed they thought they were going to get on a longer term deal and you know let's be real the Philly's have been a much better franchise for the last 10 years they've had more success they've been to the world series they've been to the playoffs more frequently they've 190 plus games more frequently the whole thing with Steve Cohen is is that we have to find a way to become the best team in the NLE East first before becoming the best team in the national league which is what the Dodgers have set the bar for these moves which is just really using financial might while continuing to build the farm and protecting prospects is the way that the Dodgers did it it's the only way to do it when you operate from this strength and you're still rebuilding out of a very fallow will pawns era I love it I'm looking at David Stern's right now who spoke at the Boba Shed Press conference he was interviewed by Steve Gelves he said my preference is to add a starting picture I've been open and honest about that through the entirety of the offseason I can't say with certainty we're going to be able to do that but we remain engaged on a number of different fronts in that market we've still got plenty of time to go in the offseason plenty of time before opening day we'll see where it heads and they're going to get somebody they're they're going to get a starter and you know and you throw you throw a decent starter on top of this pitching staff good lineup and Dickie love lady rounding it all out coming out of the bullpen like you know a hundred wins not out of the question with a little lady I still haven't bought my jersey yet I still have I'm still waiting for things to settle down I'm leaning Lindor um so does not out of it the short term con you said you were so excited you wanted to get a beshed jersey you're going to love them that much I can't go short term contract guy so I I'm I'm still feeling it out that that the as I learned the details of the beshed contract I realized it would be a poor decision to buy a beshed jersey this season because this is a fiat jersey that I'm wearing right now very smart very smart I mean bobe shed gets paid five million dollars to opt out of his deal the end of the season so the idea that he'll be back next year is far from guaranteed I got to learn a lot about baseball but you're helping me Sean fantasy and you're going to help me tomorrow learn a lot about the Oscar nominations a big day for you and Amanda on the big picture I will be listening for your analysis um and uh and as I watch these movies I like to go back and listen to the archive podcast I save them for when I actually watch them so I'm excited for that too Sean fantasy you're the man thanks Zach you're the man all right that's it for the Zach Lo show this week barring something crazy in the NBA thanks to Michael Pina thanks to Baxter Holmes thanks to Sean fantasy taking a break from Oscar season to talk METS Mets Mets thanks to Mike Billy and Jonathan on production and thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lo show see you next week must be 21 or over in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 and over in president DC can tuck you or while me gambling problem call 1-800 gambler visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 of visit ccpg.org slash chat and can etiquette or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland hope is here visit gamblinghelp.com ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8 hope NY or text hope and lie in New York