The 2026 NBA Trade Value List. Plus, Harden, JJJ, and Giannis Trade News With Joe House

Thank you, folks. All right, live on Netflix. I can't speak. Live on Netflix, Bill Simmons here with Joe House. We are going to do our annual NBA Trade Value List podcast that we have been doing. The first one, House, December 2007, the first year I had a podcast on the Worldwide Leader. And in that trade value list, I think we ranked Carlos Boozer above Dirk Nowitzki. and now 19 years later Carlos Boozer's son now about to be a top three pick in the NBA draft it all comes around and now we're on Netflix a place that was was mailing out DVDs to customers in 2007 and now we're doing a live podcast for Netflix and Spotify Spotify existed in 2007 but look at this we're just moving with the times this is great I will explain the trade value concept to everybody in a second but we got to talk about James Harden first. Yeah. James Harden. News of the day. We always get everybody's like, it's going to be a slow trade. And then all of a sudden, Saturday or Sunday, whatever day that was during the weekend, it was like, James Harden not playing tonight. Personal reasons. It's like, uh-oh. Personal reasons. What does this mean? Are we about to do the dance with James Harden again? Then it leaks out. Chris Mannix reports yesterday, there is a James Harden Darius Garland trade that's far down the road. and might happen, might not. Now, as we're recording this Tuesday, 10.30, PT a.m., feels like this trade is happening. What was your reaction when you heard that this trade was even a one-for-one possibility as we're working on the trade value list? Made sense. To be honest, I got to see Cleveland this year up close and personal, went to Wizards game, and Darius Garland played, which was great. you know, got to see him. Um, I, I will tell you, you're, you're the expert at, at the body language and all of the, you know, you have your PhD in analyzing team chemistry, but it was, I was paying attention because we had, I had really good seats. Uh, thank you to our good friends. I'm not going to give a shout out actually. Just thank you to all of our good friends out there. Um, and the, It was just not like a big bro hug kind of vibe coming out of Cleveland in general when I saw them. And I think this was in December. But, you know, the guys were kind of all navigating their own paths is what I would say. It's a car key situation, right? They somewhat easily coexisted last year, Garland and Mitchell. The team did really well. but now you know garland's in year seven mitchell's got a new extension coming up garland has been repeatedly getting hurt i want to talk about that in a second i did want to remind people the bill simmons podcast brought to you by fan duel and it's the last call for football on fan duel one final sunday one last kickoff the final chance to place your bets before the nfl season closes its tab because after the super bowl the season's over football's officially done and we me and house are sad. Last call for football and FanDuel, an official sports book partner of Super Bowl 60. 21 plus in president select states or 18 plus in president of D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-Gamber or visit rg-help.com, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. So Garland, there's a durability thing with him that I think is factoring in. One thing about James Harden, the moods will go up and down. Maybe the weight will even go up and down a tiny bit, but he does play. He's out there. He is durable, whereas Garland is not, and you can get out of his contract after the year. The shit detector in me, though, he had a trade kicker, 15% trade kicker. Cleveland is over the second apron, so this deal works as a one-for-one, but if you put in the 15% trade kicker, now, granted, we've only had these apron rules for a year and a half and they're like trying to figure out, uh, trying to read Chinese or something. But I'm pretty sure the kicker would then make it impossible for Cleveland to do the deal, which leads me to wonder, did they have to ask Carden to waive the trade kicker? And he's like, well, why would I do that? Are you going to give me an extension? Both teams or one team both say, well, we can't give you an extension because the one year deal you signed, you can't get an extension until the summer. Then we move into wink, wink category. Oh, boy. Well, what if we wink-winked an extension for the summer? Who knows? The other thing we don't know is who pushed for this trade. Did the Clippers do this and Harden found out? I theorized that today. He finds out all of a sudden he's in a trade. He's mad. He doesn't play. Or because the Clippers wouldn't give him an extension, was he out scouting possible teams, ended up with Cleveland, and now they're just trying to figure it out. Which one would you bet on out of those two scenarios? I think the latter. although the whole wink wink thing he doesn't have a great track record of that no he's had a poor wink wink history Daryl Morey is a liar that's right he called Daryl Morey a liar according to James Harden not me James Harden well I'm proceeding like this trade is going to happen and it's an interesting timing because the Clippers at least by advanced metrics were the best team in the league for the last 20 games I don't think they actually were the best team in the league but they were making a playoff run they were going to be at least in the play and probably in the playoffs. Gahau, our producer, is a big Clipper fan. And I'm going to assume this trade happens. And I just want to say this now. I don't want to jinx it. I'm so happy as a Clipper season ticket holder who has deliberately not been going to that many games, mostly because, all due respect, I'm sure he's a nice guy. I cannot stand watching James Harden. I can't stand it. I don't like it. I don't like driving 40 minutes to the Intuit Dome and then having to watch James Harden just have the ball all the time and fish for fouls. I just don't have a good time. It's not what I like. So I'm kind of surprised to hear that. What do you mean? You've known me for almost 40 years. How are you surprised? What part of James Harden's game would I be like, oh, that's my kind of basketball? Well, first of all, he does get his assists, and especially the guys who go to the rim. He and Zubach had a really nice pick and roll thing going, and Zoo really elevated last season. I mean, the run that they went on and how they got to 50 games was in no small part because of that chemistry between Harden and Zoo. So you're driving 45 minutes back and forth to watch James Harden? That's what you're telling me? You can do that 15 times a year? Let me ask you this question. How many times have you seen Luka play live? Luka's more fun to me because even though it's the same kind of monoculture basketball thing but Luka brings in the added benefit of you get to try to figure out what mood he's in, he gets mad at people, he gets like really pissed at opponents and referees it's almost like watching my six year old son as an NBA superstar, but you don't know when he's going to throw a tantrum he'll take over a game for like eight minutes and it's awesome Like, I'm way more fascinated in him. And I think he makes sense in the context of the Lakers in L.A. Like, he's a celebrity. Like, your eyes gravitate to him. Okay. I just maybe have been watching James Harden for too long. What about in the context of a winning basketball team? He did drag a team to the finals, and it really was the perfect kind of team. Luka did. Luka did. That's what I mean. Yeah. I'm way more pro Luka than James Harden. I have a list for you. It's my least favorite good players to watch in the 21st century. We are now 25. Least favorite good players. Okay, go ahead. James Harden is my least favorite player to watch in person since Dwight Howard. I could see a good – Never, ever, ever enjoyed watching Dwight Howard, ever. I could see a good bit of him. I can't remember. I think I left feeling neutral about him. Remember we sat courtside for the Super Bowl in Indianapolis? Yes. That the Patriots fucking blew? we sat underneath the basket and it was right when Dwight Howard was becoming unhappy with his Orlando situation we got to watch him just ram into bodies and bang around he was very physical I don't know if I would have wanted to watch that 15 times Steve Francis putting him on here for my least favorite good players to watch 21st century the classic score first point guard who has no interest in setting up anyone else in the team, but somehow gets all his stats. I have him. I feel like this is going to be a theme. No. Your guy, Bradley Beal. Oh! I'm putting him on there. Yeah. Bradley Beal, last few years. What do you want me to say? I have nothing to say. Okay. What's crazy, I will say this. There was a very nice celebration of John Wall last week. John Wall's part of the Prime team. and they did a bobblehead for him. And I honestly think they may get around to retiring John Wall's jersey. But the curious thing is you can't retire both John Wall and Brad Beal. I mean, all that team did was get to the semis in 2017. You're telling me you're going to retire John Wall's jersey? I think there's a chance. I think it's possible. What? They should retire his amnesty clause cap figure, whatever the hell they had to do. Who should be the fifth player on this team? Harden, Dwight Howard, Steve Francis, Bradley Beal. I need a power forward. Oh, well, I'm glad that you didn't say the guy who's going to absolutely be transformative for my Washington team next year, and that's Trey Young, who I was positive. No, I don't mind watching Trey Young. It's going to come out of your mouth. Good. Thank you. I need a power forward. Is there a power forward from over the years? It's just like the power forward. Maybe Rashid Wallace when he didn't care? Well, no, that's Derek Coleman, right? It's in that 90s, though. I need this century. Okay, this century. Somebody who had Josh Smith. Oh, that's a great one. Josh Smith. That's my fifth. I'm going to write him down. James Harden, Dwight Howard, Steve Francis, Bradley Beal, and Josh Smith. That is an automatic calling the season ticket representative and saying, I've decided not to renew my tickets. Can I give you another James Harden? Last five weeks, 24 points a game, eight assists a game. Solid. Good. 38% field goal, 29% three-pointers. Tough. Tough. It's tough. Older player, starts out hot, season goes along. Hmm. Now, if he's on the Cavs, you have to do less. I get the – Mitchell has the ball a lot. I actually like the fit for him in the Cavs. Me too. So explain to me, Garland and the Clippers, how that works. Because I get Harden in the Cavs and how that raises their ceiling, and especially this run that they could go on if they could just – maybe this little chemistry bit will be the tipping point for them. Help me understand Garland and the Clippers. 10 years younger. I'll just put it this way. If I told you in July when, I don't remember, I can't remember if the Clippers had signed James Harden yet. If I told you in July there's really no market for James Harden other than one or two teams, he's going to sign a one-year deal, and in six months he's going to be traded straight up for Darius Garland. Your answer would have been no way. There's no way that's happening. Cleveland would never do that. Stop it. But I think Garland's stock has fallen a little bit. I think if you're the Clippers, it's a no-brainer. You have a chance to get a younger asset. His deal's not bad. He's got three years left. He's represented by the ringer's Rich Paul. Now I'm all in. Listen to this. No, but I've always loved Garland. I've always wanted to see him with the car keys on his own team. And I actually like the fit with him and Kawhi and Zoo. And I don't know. I don't think it's going to hurt the team this season that much if he's playing. The problem is you're rolling the dice on his feet. And I think, what did we say? He wears new balances? Is that right? I don't know. I'll look at the picture and see what shoes he's in. When players continue to have problems with feet and ankles, to me that's less about the player and more about the equipment. Most famously, Grant Hill wearing the feelers is the worst example of this. but obviously he's got weird feet. I was talking before we came on. I have fat feet. It took me forever to realize I should wear the wide Nikes when I walk for 15,000 steps a day. Nikes are narrow. Nikes are perfect for my feet. Yeah, Nikes are narrow. My feet are fat, and the Nikes would grind the sides of my feet, and I would get blisters all over the place. I'm like, oh, I have dumb feet. Why do I get so many blisters? It's like, because I'm wearing the wrong shoes, dumbass. Yeah, it's your feet fault. Yeah. It's not you. It's very fixable. Let me throw one other thing with Cleveland, because this will lead into the trade value thing that we're about to do. They are my, I still, I know there's a bunch of people who are like, Giannis isn't getting traded until this summer. That seems to be the consensus around the league. I'm one of them. I disagree, because I think for a few teams, this is their chance to grab a Giannis trade before it gets to the summer and the Knicks, Cleveland has a better way to do it, some other teams. It would just be easier to make trades in the summer and go after them. Teams will be less happy with, you're bringing more variables into it. But that's good for Milwaukee. It's good for Milwaukee. But it's also good for teams, you know, like a Cleveland, they're 13.8 over the second apron. When you're over the second apron, you can't package players to make trades. you can only trade one player out whatever you're getting back has to be less than that player or the trades off they're now because of stupid Vivek and the Kings once again like doing something dumb to help out another team the Kings trade for DeAndre Hunter and they send back Keon Ellis and Schroeder it saves saves the Cavs uh oh we just got breaking news this is better than the trade deadline show I'm having a great time We better start doing this show on Tuesdays Wow This is a new thing So Jaron Jackson Has been traded to the Jaron Jackson has been traded to the Utah Jazz Wow What's the trade? Markkinen has to be involved right? We might have to get Zach Lowe to come on this Great let's do it You can just text Zach if he's available He should just pop on Holy mackerel So what was the trade? Marketing has to be involved, right? Does he? I mean, they could keep marketing. They have expirings and just trade a bunch of their picks. What is Memphis doing? Memphis, this is the full rebuild. So Morant, they'll get a bag of Cheetos from Morant now. So Jaron Jackson's $35 million this year. Extension kicking in next year, five years for $205 million. It's fair. Five years is also the number of rebounds per game he averages. You really obsess over the number of rebounds that Triple J gets. Yeah, because you didn't rebound. You weren't a great rebounder. I'm a perimeter player. That's what Jared Jackson said. He's right. Can you grab some rebounds? Me and Triple J. Back to Cleveland. We'll find out what this trade was, but back to Cleveland for a second. So they got to get $13.8 million under the second apron. There's a bunch of teams with exceptions. They have Lonzo, $10 million expiring. Max Truce at $15 million. And Keon Ellis at 2.3, they can get rid of some. So they can actually get under the apron before Thursday, which would allow them to then do a Mobley and other stuff for Giannis and Kuzma, whatever it takes. Would you trade Mobley for Giannis? Maybe. Here's my reservation, and here is why I think we're waiting until the summer. Tell me the truth about Giannis' calf. Tell me the truth. The truth? It seems to get tweaked a lot. A lot. This is the problem. Is he going to play in the playoffs this upcoming season? Well, he's not going to be in the playoffs. Oh, here we go. Here's the trade. Jaron Jackson, John Conchar, Jock Landell, and Vince Williams Jr. I kind of like him. For Walter Clayton Jr., Kyle Anderson, Taylor Hendricks, George Niang, and three future first-round picks. which I'm guessing are unprotected. Wait, did you say Kessler? No, I said... You did not. I did not. Well, he's out for the year. So? Wow, that's an interesting swing for Utah. I don't know if I love Jaron Jackson at $50 million a year, but that's just me. That means they have a very strong conviction about Jaron Jackson and Laurie Markkinen playing together. Do you like that combo? That's pretty interesting. Who's rebounding on that team? Kessler, where he comes back. That's what I just asked. The thing with Jaron Jackson is he's a really good rim-protecting center, but he needs to play next to a center. But I thought he was the center. Something about Keontae George pushed them in this direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? There's something. They pushed Keontae George in a trade value direction, too. Well, well placed. So Memphis, they trade Jaron Jackson, they get picks back. Last summer, they trade Desmond Bain. would they get four first for him? A whole bunch of picks. And now they're going to try to stick John Moran on Vivek, which they'll probably succeed in doing. And that's just a full reboot for a team that I think the furthest they got was round two. And ironically, the guy they couldn't wait to get rid of first turned out to be the culture guy on their team, Dylan Brooks. Everybody was like, this guy's so immature. What's wrong with this guy? In fairness to the team, he was, I'll just use the word somewhat erratic. Not completely erratic. No, he was erratic. He was pretty erratic. Nobody was like, wow, I can't believe they decided to move on from Dylan Brooks. But I think he's mature. He kind of dared them to. And he's turned it into being a really good culture setter for Phoenix. If you look at Phoenix's team, we're doing trade value. I think we only have one, we have two sons, Booker and Brooks. out of the entire list. He didn't know. Somebody didn't know what kind of leader he could be. Maybe this was the problem all along. Nobody ever gave him the car keys. Let Dylan cook. See, that's what was making him crazy. Nobody would give him the car keys. It's like me at ESPN. So the difference with this Jackson trade, and when you were in a similar situation in D.C. with Bradley Beal is they moved fast to trade even before the extension kicked in to get the first round picks back. How much are we allowed to curse on this show? Well, the Wiz gave Bradley Beal the extension and people were like, that's weird. Jaron Jackson, the extension was much more defensible. The extension wasn't the problem. I can curse, right? Yeah. It was the fucking no trade clause. It was the motherfucking no trade clause. That was the problem. Giving him the car keys over whatever preferred destination he wanted and having to kowtow to a player that made one third team all NBA team once in his entire career. It gave him the benefit of that super extension. It only took one time under the previous collective bargaining agreement. So they had to pay him. Good God. I'm over it. I'm over it. I'm sorry. Let me take it down a notch. We're going to talk about this Super Bowl for one second, and then we're going to do the trade value. Great. And the Super Bowl moment is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. It is now Tuesday. I've spent the last 48 hours studying all Drake May shoulder footage, including him saying in the podium last night that he feels really good, and it's turned the corner. He was carrying his bag, coming off the plane. Just his demeanor, his shoulders didn't seem lopsided. I'm feeling good, House. I'm feeling great. Do you think it was the compression in the plane, you know? The air in there is different. Maybe that's what helped. He said he got off the plane and immediately felt better. Maybe his wonderful wife, the Queen of the North, was just giving him some shoulder massages and working out the kinks in the back. I don't think she's allowed. That's what we call her now, the Queen of the North. Is she allowed on the plane? I think they have their own. They have a family plane. Okay. The line has not moved. Were you surprised the line has not moved at all? No, that tells us the story. If he was hurt, the line would have moved. It would have moved Sunday. It hasn't moved. So Thursday, I'm doing a trade deadline special live with Zach Lowe on Netflix. We are going to record a Super Bowl segment with our picks that's going to run at the end of that. You and I? Yeah, we're going to do that either Wednesday. We'll record it tomorrow. I'd rather get it as close to the game as possible. Because if there's footage of Drake May just throwing ducks and wobblers, maybe that'll affect the line. Who knows? Anyway, that is the Super Bowl brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Let's do it. And once we get more info on that Jaron Jackson trade, we'll pop in. I mean, this is the trade deadline show. Yeah, yeah. It turned into like a borderline trade value. So for the people who don't know, I've been doing this trade value gimmick since I had my old website before I got to ESPN. and the concept is ranking the players from however the highest number is to one based on who is the most untradable player in the league. And we've been doing that. I started writing this as a column. When I got my podcast in 07, we started doing the annual podcast every year to try, you helped me figure out the list. You're my list conciliary, my trade value conciliary. Have you put that on a resume? Put it on your LinkedIn. Trade value conciliary 2007 to 2026. here are the rules trade value it's really important we follow these rules rule number one salaries matter which matters more than ever in this goofy apron era we're in the apron is terrifying to everybody rule number two age matters so this is like a James Harden Darius Garland thing Darius Garland's 26 James Harden's 36 which guy would you rather want to have contract link matters this mattered more in the 2000s when we had guys getting seven-year deals. Remember that era? You had a couple bad ones. I think you're still paying Gilbert Arenas. Probably. Contracting matters. Rule number four, happiness matters. So does durability. Conflicting for James Harden fans here. Durable guy, many times unhappy. We've seen this multiple times with him now. Rule number five, bizarre real-life trade should affect the list. so if you think somebody is this trade asset and they were given away for 30 cents on the dollar aka Trey Young that was like 20 cents a dollar but I'm saying like Trey Young is a good example that trade told us what his trade value was there's no example that will ever surpass Luca I mean it will have to like forever cope with that so you think that affects the list or is that like an outlier it affects the concept It is the all-time outlier. It is the... Yeah, see, I think that's an outlier. I don't think... I think that was a unique once-in-a-lifetime event. It brings the whole concept to its knees because they got one first-round draft pick, and it was infinitely, permanently hurt. But a lot of Max Christie moving right now. And then rule number six, concentrate on degrees. And we're going to talk about this over and over again. Two guys that are close together, and basically, and this is one of the things House does as my trade value conciliary, I call you... And I say, you're Utah and I'm the Pelicans. And I call you and I say, what about Trey Murphy for Laurie Markkinen? Straight up. Which side deliberates longer, has a longer meeting? If somebody's like, no way we're doing that and it hangs up, that means that side probably has more trade value. So you just have to think about it in that context. degrees of, obviously, you know, Wemby's not getting traded for Jokic, but if San Antonio and Denver had that phone call, how does it unfold? Who's more likely to say, that's ridiculous, we're not doing that? Or Denver going, we can't do that, Jokic is our guy. But Wemby's available? And they're going to actually trade him? Probably a longer meeting on the Denver side, right? Yeah. Joker's older. So anyway, that's the thing. Okay. We have a top 80 this year, House. It's the biggest list we've ever had, I think. You remember the days in the late 2000s where we had 40 guys? We could barely get to 40. We had to pad it with, like, Chris Kamen. Guys that missed a cut just quickly. Zachary Riesa Shea, Josh Hart, Tyler Hero, Naz Reed, Michael Porter Jr., Cam Johnson. Any of those names surprise you so far? Kind of Michael Porter Jr. Because he seems fit to be traded. And he seems to be in a position where he could actually fetch decent assets. $40 million this year. $37 next year. And has not played defense, I don't think, since 11th grade. Right team, right situation. Okay. All right. So that's your first. He's going to stay there. Cam Johnson. DeMontis Sabonis really surprised me. He didn't even make the toughest omissions list. but just had this huge extension kicked in. The advanced metrics are terrible for him, and his team seems to lose when he plays, and he's older. I don't see a case for him. I would say free Sabonis. I'd love to see him play on a decent team where we could – I mean, remember the double-double machine he was as recently as, like, last year? I mean, he can definitely play, and he can definitely be a winning basketball player in the right circumstance. This, unfortunately, is not it. Jared Allen, who would have made the list last year and probably did, but has this big 30 million a year extension kicking in next year. And I think Cleveland would probably be delighted to get off of that and get a cheaper big man. Agor Demmon. You did it. I screwed that up. No, I know it's Agor. I can't remember. Demmon. I always call him Agor. You could call him Beeman. I like him a little more than I did when I saw him in person. But there's maybe something there. We'll see. Herb Jones, Aaron Neesmith, Khalil Ware, who doesn't really play anymore, and I also think could have been on this list a month ago. So what is weird is, you know, he and Kaminga, two guys who came in with all of the, like, oh, wow, there could be something here. These guys could grow into players. Ware drafted much further back than Kaminga? Right. No, Ware was in the middle of the lottery, basically. Right. Yeah. So what's your point? just the weird falling out of favor with coaches that we trust. We tend to trust Spolstra, and we tend to trust... Right. Maybe it's a tough love approach. Didn't really work with Kaminga. No. I'm going to say it did not work with Kaminga. I'm going to say it decidedly did not work. Isaiah Hartenstein's on here. He's paid a lot. He's like 29 million. And I think it's a team option next year so they can grab it. Worth every penny. I like him, but I'm just saying like that's. They won the title because of them. But the center position, I think teams are usually looking for that 15 to 20 million range, not 30. Miles Bridges, Christian Braun, Shaden Sharp. My guy, Scoot Henderson. I'll still buy all your stock. I know the stock for Scoot is lower, but it is what it is. Kobe White. He's on his last year of his deal and probably getting paid next year, so that's why he's not in there. Okay. Toughest omissions. So we have 12 guys for this list. The first one is a wizard. Let me tell you. Kishon George. Kishon George. I called him Kishon George. Kishon George. I don't think I've watched a Wizards game with the announcers. I just see them on the bottom left TV and I have no idea how to pronounce any of their names. Respectfully. it's hit or miss with the local broadcaster. But I will say this. This dude can flat out play. He can absolutely, he could be a scorer. He can definitely hit threes. He's tough. He's super young. And he not yet reached the full potential of how strong he can be And when that comes in he going to be a force He absolutely when they want to win games he on the floor in the fourth quarter and he makes good decisions. Nikhil Alexander-Walker. Sure. Who has been a great signing for Atlanta and is averaging almost 20 a game. Devin Vassell on San Antonio, a little pricey. He's like around 27. Alex Caruso, great glue guy. A little older, 32. He's got a new deal. It's like $20 million a year for a few more years. But I found it hard to believe he couldn't crack the list. Jalen Suggs, who I really like and so do you, but a fatter contract now and doesn't seem to be able to play more than 10 straight games. We don't like that. First, Rando, Colin Murray Boyles. You aware of his work in Toronto? Yeah, he's an elemental part of their success. he's part of the overall depth that that team has that makes this version of them successful. He can play. They wouldn't trade him. Really, really elite, elite, elite defensive shit going on with him. Yeah. And just the kind of guy you need and he's on a rookie contract. I put Luke Cornett on the list. That's just you. He's $10 million a year. Would you rather pay Luke Cornett $10 million a year or Jared Allen $30? You had the chance. That's no contest. I mean, I guess you couldn't figure it out in Boston how to keep him. Well, they didn't want to spend the money. Jabari Smith, I'm just going to go down on the ship with. I just like him. I think he's kind of criminally misused on this team because they have so many assets, and they just kind of tell him to stand in the corner. I think there's so much more there. I don't like it. If I was a GM, I'd be trying to trade for him constantly. If they don't do anything by the end of the day Thursday, I am jumping into their regular wins market, the season total. It's 53 and a half right now, and I am hammering the under. I am going to buy so much under on the Rockets at 53 and a half if they don't do anything on the trade deadline. I watched them play Indiana last night. There wasn't a lot of basketball on last night. it just feels like everything's a grind with them now that they don't have that they had that Steven Adams offensive rebounding wrinkle that made them invincible sometimes and now they don't have it and they feel gettable every game their fourth quarters are not good so their regular season wins now it's still 53 and a half now if it stays there at the trade deadline I am buying a big chunk of under. Can I interest you at all in Utah at 24 and a half or an over-under? I think they're going to go over. Right now they are... Can you still... They're 15 and 35 now. There's 32 games left, so they'd have to go 9 and 10 and 22 to hit it. How many games is Triple J going to play? I don't know. Do they ice them? They will ice somebody in a heartbeat. That's a fun team for him to go to, by the way. Well, I love him getting... When Kessel comes back with Mark and him, if they get anything from Ace Bailey, they have a point guard, they have cap space and draft picks to get more stuff. I don't mind that. Will Hardy? I'm talking about something in that trade. Yeah. Why do you have to talk yourself into it? Because I want to see if the picks are unprotected. If they're unprotected, that would make me a little more nervous. Okay. Moussa Diabate on the Hornets. I don't know if you're familiar with his work lately, but there's like some of the most insane plus minus stats of five band lineups. And I test too. Yes. That's just exactly kind of what they needed. Hugo Gonzalez, who has the best plus minus I think of any rookie in the last five years and is only like six months older than my son and comes in and swings games and is an absolute man and a maniac. And I love him. And if they ended up somehow out of nowhere doing the honest trade and he was in it, I'd be bummed out. Then I'd be like, Giannis is on the team. I'll get over it. Tamani Kamara and Trey Johnson is our last toughest omission. I put him on there for you. Thank you. Do you think Trey Johnson had a case to be in the top 80? No, not yet. He might get there. He can shoot. He works super hard. Perfect character guy. Let's see this Rising Stars thing. I want to see how he is playing with his peers. That's the first time that sentence has ever been said Okay I'm still learning my team Top 80 we separate them into tiers Going from 80 to 1 And group O It's going by letters I don't remember us getting to O before O's a lot Jesus Group O is called grab your stock now And it's all cheat guys It's number 80 Anthony Black 79 Ace Bailey Number 78 Peyton Watson Look at you. Jumping in out of nowhere. And is an RFA. So they're actually going to have to pay him this summer. Tari Eason, who I'm never going to give up on, and has actually been playing. Modest, Bezelis, and Donovan Klingon at 75. So Black, Bailey, Watson, Eason, Bezelis, and Klingon. Who's your favorite out of all those guys? It's Eason. And I tried to come up with a case to push him further up, that he would fetch more in value than where he is right now. I couldn't get there. The league's too deep. And, you know, again, he is one of the guys on Houston when there's, you know, seven minutes left and their opponent is closing the gap, closing the gap, closing the gap. Yeah. On the offensive end, he's not doing anything to help stave that off. Yeah, I think that's a good point. I will say all six of these guys I really like for different reasons. I don't know what Bailey is, but he's clearly, there's something there. I have no idea what's there, but something's there. Black's been playing really well recently, like the last five weeks. Watson's been a revelation since Jericho went out. And I'm still in. I'm zealous. I like him. I like his game. He's so young. Why do you say it that way? Still in? Why would you be out? Sometimes it seems like the Bulls aren't in on him. There's games where he'll just disappear from the game. I don't think we can draw any inferences from anything the Bulls do. That's very fair. And then Klingon is just a badass. He really is. He killed the Celtics last month. Really kind of destroyed them and took the game over. So Portland and Washington played and there is definitely, last week, there is some kind of rivalry thing between him and Saar. And they were talking and Keyshawn George was really the animating force. They were talking so much shit to Klingen the whole game. It was physical. I couldn't have enjoyed it more. Denny, you know, Denny Abdi is motivated. Former Wiz. Former Wiz, yeah. It was a really fun game. Washington and Portland, super underrated. Klingen's really competitive and kind of talks his shit a little bit. And tries to intimidate. I really like him. I think he's good. I almost wanted to put him... like 15 spots higher next to Alex R and that group, but I couldn't quite get there because I'm not sure about the health of them. Okay, next group. So those are all rookie contract guys, which are the easiest, you know, best commodities, especially in the apron era. Next group is group N, valuable assets on okay contracts. These aren't bad contracts. They're not great. Number 74, Dyson Daniels. He just signed an extension for four for a hundred. I liked him more last year. And I've watched a lot of Hawks. I have some overs with them. And there's just, they've never been able to put their shit together. And it doesn't feel like he's better than he was last year. Which I would have assumed he would be better than he was last year. But he's not. We've been on the wrong side of the Hawks. Every year. What feels like. They're like the Steelers for us in NFL for basketball. Anyway, I can't give up on him because he's too good of a, his hands on defense are just unlike anything. James Harden, number 73. $39 million this year, $42 million player option. And I got to be honest, he wasn't on this list until two days ago when the Garland stuff started because that, I think, made both of us realize, oh, yeah, I guess he still has the value because of the stats. So he's there. Brandon Ingram, number 72. He's on a three-for-120 deal. Still can't believe my guy Rich Paul pulled that one off. He helped stabilize Toronto. Unbelievable contract, though. Toronto's going to get, you know, like a five seed, six seed in the East. Yeah, we'll see. They're competitive. Mikael Bridges, number 71. He is $24 million this year, and then it kicks into a $4 million, $150 million extension. I mean, he's kind of taking the hits on this team. Doesn't have the ball a ton. Their defense has been really good for the last two weeks, and all the Knicks fans I know are like, shit's happening. I mean, Mike Brown finally figured it out. They're not playing Clarkson. And he's a piece of that. But this feels the right range for him, right? Yeah, I mean, he's tough to know what exactly to do with. Because like on the Wizards, he'd probably have the ball a lot more and be more fun to watch. He also really could be. He's so tough. He could be that enforcer kind of role for a team that wants to play physical. like if he was on Houston I think he could be an absolute force for them Norm Powell is number 70 interesting one because he's 20 million this year and then he's a free agent and I don't know whether that helps or hurts trade value I feel like it probably hurts how old is Norm Powell now? I'm going to say he's like 33 or 34 33? why do you ask? well because he by the numbers is having a better shooting season for the Heat than he did last year for the Clippers. And the Clippers really missed him at the beginning of the season. I think that was the one ingredient more than any other ingredient that led to them only winning four games. John Collins has been okay now. Now? Yeah, you're right. Like in the first 25 games, the Clippers were a disaster. And I think a big part of that was because they missed Norm Powell. And Norm Powell has been good. He scored well. You're right. He's 33 next year. Josh Giddey's number 69. He's four for 100. Right contract for him, right team. I'm not sure if you're trying to win a title. I'm not sure what number in the pecking order he is, but he's probably fourth, I would say. You probably have to have three guys better than him on the team to win a title. Yeah, two or three guys, yeah. Desmond Bay, number 68. He's five-year, $197 million deal, so I'm dinging him for that. That's pretty pricey. Rudy Gobert, number 67. Redid his deal. It's now three for 109. There's just not a lot of him. And I'd rather have him than Jared Allen if we're paying roughly around the same money. Jaden McDaniels, four for 108. He's number 66. Darius Garland, number 65. Three for 126. Interesting that he's 65. Harden is 73, and yet they're being traded straight up. Obviously, I can't tell teams what to do, but that's how I have them ranked. And then Lou Dort is number 64. He's 18 this year, 18 next year. And House just signed with Clutch. Oh. So OKC is the team option for him next year at 18. But now he's with Clutch. I think Lou Dort is a... I'm not saying they're going to trade him in the next two days, but you have to think about it if you're Presti. So you're not going to pay him. You're paying three max guys, basically. You're not going to pay Lou Dort $30 million a year. You have Kaysan Wallace who can probably take some of his minutes. So I'm just, if O'KC did something, I think he's involved, right? Makes perfect sense. And this is exactly, it was either this trade deadline or this coming summer when folks anticipated that he would have to go. I mean, that's the sacrifice the team's going to have to make. And it's fair. He helped them win a ring. That was awesome. Yeah, they won a ring. He did his job. He did his job. Everything else is gravy. So Group N, Daniels, Harden, Ingram, Bridges, Powell, Giddy, Bain, Gobert, McDaniels, Garland, and Lou Dort. That's from 74 to 64. I'll do, we're going to take a break, but I got one more quick group. Ah, now let's save it. The group's called Valuable Assets on Horrific Contracts, and we're going to do it right after this break. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Last call for football. Sad. FanDuel is giving you a daily profit boost every single day leading up to Super Bowl 60. Today's 30% profit boost is on over, under, and alternate rushing yard props. Check back each day for a new daily boost because FanDuel is giving everyone something extra to cheer for during football's final week. Play your game with FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 60. You must be 21-plus president in select states or 18-plus in president in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. opt-in required bonus issued as non-drabble profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration, max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fandler.com. Gamprom, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats, which has become a good friend to meet during the football season. Big news, Aldi is now on Uber Eats, and you get 20% off your first grocery order with code NEWALDI26, A-L-D-I-2-6. So whether your fridge is empty or you're too tired to shop or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. Fill your fridge in just a few taps and get 20% off your first Aldi order. On Uber Eats for orders over $60, you can save up to $20. Ends February 28th, Term Supply. See app for details. All right. Before we next is Get Group, we have some Jaron Jackson stuff that we found out about the trade, thanks to the reporter, Shams Sharania, and Bobby Marks as well. Two things I want to point out. One, Shams says the Grizzlies now have a $28.8 million trade exception that they've created in this deal. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Interesting. You know who makes $27.5 million? Who? Anfernee Simons. Congrats. If the Celts just wanted to get under the tax and punt on this year, I have a chance. You have no chance. A bunch of other players, too, that could fit into that. So if Cleveland wanted to, I don't know, will you take Lonzo Ball and Max Struess from us, and we'll do two swaps with you and whatever, and then they can get under and go for Giannis. So the Grizzlies, who we didn't even know were going to factor into this trade deadline, now a huge factor. Bobby Marks also says Memphis now has 13 firsts over the next seven years. Yes, they do. And we still don't know exactly what the firsts are, unfortunately. But I assume they're unprotected. They're not in the Giannis market, right? Utah? No, Memphis. No, why would he want to go there? Well, does he really have a choice? He doesn't have a no trade. You follow the NBA. What do you mean? Teams just don't send people to teams. I understand. They would offer him the extension. He's not going to Memphis. Stop it, House. You know where else he's not going? Washington. I never thought about it. Group M, valuable assets on horrific contracts. There's three people here. Carl Anthony Towns, Anthony Davis, and Joel Embiid from 63, 62 to 61. Embiid is four for 243. Davis is a max guy with an extension possibly coming. And then Towns gets into the 60s after a couple of years. Kudos to Embiid for working his way back in the trade value list. I think the odds were like 30 to one five weeks ago, right? It is bizarre the kind of luck that Philadelphia has fallen into here. Because going into this season, you know, and I won't express it purely in terms of win totals, but they were a just throw up your hands, what the hell could they possibly be, team? Yeah, we said they had no ceiling and no floor. What's the best case scenario? Well, it turns out BJ Edgecombe can immediately come in and form a backcourt with Maxey that looks like one of the best backcourts in the entire NBA, you know, in the mix, top five backcourt, and make them competitive in an East that's up for grabs so that all they need out of Embiid is like 15 to 20 minutes. And then it turns out that that 15 to 20 minutes that they're asking for from him coincides with him. He's in great shape. Like his body is in, you know, in terms of the overall size, he's not carrying around the extra weight. Now he moves crazy slow. And he has one leg. Don't forget about how he has one leg that works. But holy shit is he an efficient shooter. Holy mother of God. That's what Lake said last week. 22 minutes and have 40 points. He's one of the best pure shooters in recent league history now. Every shot just goes in. When it hits the rim and goes out, you're shocked. You know, obviously it's a 20 game sample size where he's been healthy. I hope it stays. I'd rather have more good basketball players than less. I just, you know, anytime he falls down, you think the worst, right? He's just, I guess that's just who he's going to be for the rest of his career, but I thought at the start of the season that this was inconceivable. He does have Drew Hanlon talking a lot of shit on Twitter, which he should squash. Drew Hanlon is shooting coach. He's doing a lot of chirping. It's like, let's see Embiid play 50 games in a year before the chirping starts. We're not doing the victory lap yet? It's like talking to Aaron the no-hitter. Drew Hanlon. He's like yelling at the ringer. We had him 31st in the ringer 100. Drew Hanlon's like, oh my God. It's like the dude hasn't played 40 games since 2023. Where do you want us to rank him? So let's see him get to 50 games. Drew Hanlon should beat himself. I wondered if we were going to get a combo deal with the Paul George that Joel Embiid and Paul George together shared whatever substance so that we get it out. They're 25 games closer to the playoffs so that they're both healthy coming into the playoffs. Oh, that's interesting. A fake chat and then they just pay him under the table? He could just take whatever the thing is. He could just take it. He's like, what is that? Paul George did not make the trade value list. So Towns, 63, Davis, 62, and Bede, 61. If the Knicks offered Carl Anthony Towns to the Sixers for Joel Embiid, I think the Sixers would say no, right? Wow. I think the Sixers trade value. Yeah, I think they say no, right? I don't know. How many years are left on the NMB extension? He's four for 243 right now. This is year one. Towns has three left and it's like over 180. I can't even remember. It's not great. Towns is a better bargain. No, he's really not. I'll read you the numbers. It's less years. No, it's not because it goes Oh, yeah, it's one last year, but it's 53-57-61. Okay, but what's Joel? It's one last year. So you think Towns should be above Joel? Because this is why you're the conciliary. They're in the group. I mean, I think all three make sense. It's funny because we have tons of trade rumors about Carl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis. Yeah. Those two teams trying to find, this is the reporting that's out there. And it's been out there for a while. You know, the weird chemistry of Towns with this Knicks team, with Mike Brown's offense, you know, trying to find his place. And Davis was going to go to Atlanta by all indications. Yeah, then he had his 14th injury in the last nine years. Yeah, exactly. Defense wins championships. All right, now we're hitting a really fun stretch here. This is Group L. We're not even in the top 10 letters yet. Group L, valuable assets on great contracts. number 60 your guy Alex Saar could definitely play the Wiz did not miss with that number two pick overall so in a redraft is he above Castle or no it depends on the team drafting if it's I still have Castle above him but I like Saar I think Saar is a legit guy yeah if Atlanta is drafting number one I think that they might have taken, it would have accelerated what they had to do with Trey Young if they took Castle, right? I don't know if that's a thing that they could have coexisted. So you're in, so out of like, all right, let's say since we graduated college, young guys the Wizards have had, so I'm going to say 22 and under guys the Wizards have had. Has anyone been better than him? Because you got to read us a little bit later. Was John Wall better than him? He was pretty effing good. Was Beal better than him? Young Beal? Young Beal was great. Yeah, Young Beal was on an arc where the thing is, both those guys arrived in the NBA, I think a little bit older than Sarr. I think Sarr is still a little bit younger. I thought he was 20. So he has three things that are just home runs. You know they're going to translate to the next 15 years. He can already shoot threes for real. Yes. Right? He's a really, really good three-point shooter for his size. For sure. he's a rim protector already I think he's over two blocks a game but he's at least as aware hey that's the rim the other team's trying to score in it let me try to stop them also like he's a pretty good one-on-one defender like when he gets I can't believe I've watched the whiz enough to even have an opinion on this but if they switch and he has to guard a smaller player I feel like he can guard the smaller player. If he's in space one-on-one, he can actually defend. He moves great. I like him. He moves great. His feet are great. For a seven-footer. He might be too... He should be lower than 60. Maybe. I don't know. We'll go through the rest. Number 59, Andrew Nembhard, who is three for 59 as a contract. It's just a proven... I've seen him in the finals. You can win a title if he's one of the guys that's out there. You and I value that the most. Same for this next guy, Kaysan Wallace. He's number 58. Still on a rookie contract. They're going to have to pay him soon. I'm sure the Lou Dort money goes to him. I want to see when he's playing 32, 33 minutes a game. What do we got? Is there a little more offense there? Can you run offense through him? Is he just a Dort Caruso? I'm going to be over here and I'm going to be a pit bull on defense and that's who I am. But I obviously am a huge fan. Okay. This is a good battle here. Number 57 and number 56. Reed Shepard and Keontae George. I wanted to have Reed Shepard hire and you threw your body in front of it. Because I think I like him the most because he reminds me of Mark Price so much. I almost, I can't. Mark Price, you and I, one of our most beloved 90s players. We love Mark Price. He came to Washington and then had a foot injury that he never recovered from, but I was so excited when he came to Washington. Yeah, he got so excited to have his jersey. And then he never played. We signed him, He broke his foot and that was it I love Reed Shepard He does so many things I like I want him to be considered for the 28 Olympic team This is ludicrous This is outrageous It's an outrage He shouldn't be on the list He should have been a tough omission at best He could have easily Not made the cut He's definitely a tough omission He has no business No business whatsoever It doesn't matter It doesn't matter. He can't play 25 minutes a game on his, on the team that drafted him. And he couldn't, he couldn't play last year. So you think I should move him into the seventies? I think he's, he should be a tough omission. I don't think he's ahead of any of these guys. Thank God. How's he ahead of Anthony black? How's he ahead of sorry. Eason? He's, he's not, those guys are about to get paid though. Those guys are about to all get paid though. He's on year two of a rookie deal. Playing real minutes at crunch time. All I'm suggesting is the tapping of the brakes. He does play real minutes at crunch time sometimes. Not all the time. I mean, it could be the case that Emei is the most limiting factor on what he's capable of. Yeah. I'm going to embrace that. I might just have, so he's shooting 38% from three already this year. He's averaging 12 and three. I think maybe Kyle Mann we just text too much about him and that might be messing with my brain on it I'm all in on Reed Shepard Kyle Mann can text me and I want to have the case name, he's not in the top in my top 80 so you wouldn't trade Saar for him ever oh my god what you know what, I'm going to move Saar above him, that's fine I'm going to give you that I'll move Saar above all these guys should be above Andrew Nembhard played important minutes in the effing finals. I'm projecting five years from now for Shepard. I think he's going to... Go look at Mark Price's early stats. That is some kind of rose-colored projection. John Stockton barely played as a rookie. I'm just listing white guys. Number 56, Chianti George, who I guess is down number 57. Chianti George is averaging 24 a game for Utah and has been so good that they just mortgaged some of the future for Jaron Jackson because I don't think they were expecting his timetable to advance like this. And it's interesting. I'm not positive I'd want to play with him. I've said this on earlier pods. I'm not sure it would be the most fun experience ever to be like a swing or a big on his team. But I also, like in a close game in the last minute, I feel like he's going to get to the basket or get a good shot. He's just really tough to defend. I think he's a gamer too. I don't know if this is too high or too low. When they stop messing around and start playing serious and actually try and win games in Utah, he's going to be an effing revelation. He's going to put the league on notice. He's capable of 28 to 30 points a night. No two ways about it. So you want to move Reed Shepard all the way up into the group with Tarius and Bozellus and Klingon. That's your conciliary recommendation. I push him all the way up. I'm going to do this. I'm going to give you this one. No, I'm not It's making the toughest omission. I'll make him number 74. Fine. And we'll figure out when I, we're going to run this. You want to put him in the same place as Donovan Klingon, then I can't argue with that. That's fine. Okay. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. You got a W. Congrats. Now, Reed Shepard, anytime he does well, I can text you about it. I love him. I think he's amazing. Obviously not. You don't love him enough to fight for him in the top 60. It's outrageous. Number 55, Osar Thompson. Yeah. kind of the best record in the east a very important player on that team interesting not as good as his brother but still really valuable super valuable it's funny that that the limitations that we see out of both of those guys were exactly the limitations if like read their draft profile coming in you know incredible um athletes the super dynamic capable they're like the nader sisters You can't tell them apart. They'll have the same weaknesses and strengths. They can guard one through five. It's really amazing. Neither one can shoot. Who do you think will be able to shoot first? I mean, Amin has the green light, so Amin is ahead of Oscar. I think he, I think Amin has the, he's more of a bag already. Like, you can actually give him the ball. Like, Lego was talking last week about how he wished he posted up more. Oh, it was such a great point. I loved hearing that. I like when they spread the floor for him and he just goes one-on-one. I don't think his brother can do some of that stuff. Also, Houston Thompson, probably the best defensive non-center in the league right now. Would you say he's number one? Who's better than him? Non-defensive? Oh, no, no, for sure. I have a ticket for defensive player of the year on him. Number 54, Isaiah Stewart. Three for 45. Eye test, great. The advanced metrics are unbelievable with him. He's the best rim protection guy in the league. Like he's better than Wembenyama and people like that. He's by far the best rim protection guy. And Peyton Pritchard at number 53, who I think has the single best contract in the league that a non contract other than Denny Peyton Pritchard is basically making million a year His contract is three years for $23.3 million. It's just nuts. I want America to know, I seriously considered trying to mount a vigorous case for not having Pritchard here. Yeah. Because, you know, America... Be careful, you're going to a Celtic game on Friday night. The Boston fans are watching this right now. They expect you to have him here. America expects you to have him, you know, damn near the top 50 in the entire league. The problem is this Celtics team is surpassing all expectations, and he is so important to them, and the money is insane. Three years for $23 million is crazy. I didn't do this on the pod, but I'm going to do it in my final list, The Ringer. I have a 13th guy for toughest admissions, but I didn't want to put him in on the podcast because you were going to laugh. But I have Kata as the toughest admission. I just was hiding it from you until Thursday. I'm glad you did. Kata's been a revelation, too. He's been unbelievable. But, yeah, Pritchard, he's the third best guy in a team that's basically the two seed or two or three seed and has the second rated offense in the league. He's a crazy one-on-one player. There's also good stats on this, too, but eye test-wise can beat guys off the dribble and then has this new T.J. McConnell, this new revolution of these guards under the rim that can do these herky-jerky double-up fakes. So T.J. McConnell doesn't appear anywhere in any of this. No. Because he's not playing. Yeah, I think his body is finally... one too many charges. So that's the group. So we moved, we moved Shepard into the 70s, which leaves us with Nembhard, Wallace, Kianti George, Alex Saar, Thompson, Stewart, and Peyton Pritchard. Like, that's a really good group of basketball players. Like, really good. That group is called Valuable Assets on Great Contracts. Yeah. Okay, Group K. This is called, if you tell Shams, I'll deny it to the death, but I am absolutely unequivocally 100% listening. Number 52, LeBron James. Number 51, Zion Williamson. Number 50, Jaron Jackson Jr. We did it. Look at that. He got traded. And they probably said, like, dude, you can't tell Shams until we agree on the deal. He can't find out. Not for anybody behind him, curiously. No. Not for anybody. Who were the other players? LeBron, Zion. LeBron is like. Oh, in the Utah trade. Yeah, it was like Clayton and expiring space. Here's my issue. I wanted to argue about Zion. Okay. Like, all they're doing is listening. I think he is in the same position as Ja Morant. No, they're doing, we don't want to trade him. He's finally healthy. That's what they're floating, but nobody believes it. It's because it's not credible. I think that they would trade him if they got one legit offer with one player or one set of draft picks that would be interesting to them. Is there a more fun trade on the planet than Zion Williamson for LeBron James and New Orleans agrees to immediately buy LeBron out? Why would New Orleans do that? If they got a first round pick. Oh, okay. They're basically paying like $30 million for a first-round pick and to get out of Zion. I don't think this trade will happen. I'm just trying to figure out how to get LeBron off the Laker. The problem I'm having, how can we have Zion there? That's a bag of chips trade. You just traded Zion for a bag of lays. Where's Zion supposed to go? In the 70s? Kind of gone on the list. Would you trade for him in the Wizards? Fuck no. You wouldn't? For what? How does he help this young team get better? How does he help the chemistry of this young team? What's the food situation in Washington for him? When he plays, there's great food in Washington. Washington in the last 15 years. But is it food that would make him put on weight? Or is it food that. . . You can do it all. There is definitely food here that would be not good. It is Chocolate City. Mambo sauce on the chicken wings is not a low-calorie sauce. But, you know, the half-smokes from Ben's. I can't put Zion. . . I can't move him out of this group. Why? I just think he's too talented because I think every team has meetings about whether they should trade for him or not. He's too talented, and he's young still. But what teams, what are they thinking that they have to give up is the hard question and the question for this group. Yeah. I don't think it's very much. Yeah, I don't know the answer. He would not have fetched as much as Jaron Jackson just did. I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so either. I would have him in the same category as Carl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid. All right, I can do that. I'll move him back. I'll move him. Would the next trade Towns for Zion? Oh, we have a trade. Another one. This is unbelievable. It's like the league was waiting for us to do this. This is the trade deadline pod. From now on, remember this. Go on Tuesdays. You need Zach on Tuesdays. huh Shom says Jaden Ivey and Mike Conley Jr. to the Bulls Kevin Herter and Dario Sarge to the Pistons and Detroit receives a 2026 first round protected swap from Minnesota so that's basically just Minnesota dumping Mike Conley and not getting anything back in cutting $10 million out of freeing money for, oh, look at this. Oh, boy. I see. He's doing it. So why is Minnesota freeing up $10 million? So why is Minnesota? Why would they trade a beloved teammate, Mike Conley? This is great. Live on Netflix. This is amazing. Wow. Who are the candidates? Let's go through the potential candidates to play point guard for the Minnesota Timberwolves. Here's my number one preference. Oh, you're going that way. Could it be James Harden? No. Although that would be really interesting. Wow. The rerouting from Cleveland to Minnesota? Or the Cleveland deal, the Cleveland Clippers deal isn't done, right? John Morant? You cocksucker. I just was going to say it. That's the best one. That would be effing amazing. So for that one to work, let me look at Minnesota's SpotTrack. For that one to work, come on. SpotTrack. SpotTrack going slow. A lot of people on SpotTrack right now. Busy. So Memphis did that 28 million trade exception thing. And I wonder if that factors into anything. They could also be a receptacle for an extra contract in the honest trade if SpotTrack is not working. We're never going to know who's on Minnesota. They don't have anybody. They have Randall's making money. They have Jaden McDaniels making money. They have DiVincenzo making a little less money. Rob Dillingham, they could stick somewhere. And SpotTrack doesn't work. They need a bunch of those guys to make the run, to keep up the momentum, to to be where they are in that upper echelon in the West, they can't really, who's the most expendable of that group? It's got to be DiVincenzo. Does that create enough room, the $10 million plus DiVincenzo? And I think Randall's good. Me too. I wouldn't trade Randall. I wouldn't either. Why would they do that? I don't think Randall or Nas Reed or, I don't think any of them. So the picks in the Utah trade They're trading their most favorable 2027 pick Cleveland, Minnesota or Utah So Memphis gets that They're trading the Lakers 2027 first And Phoenix is 2031 first To Memphis So those picks are less 2027 first Because I think it was one of the I think that was the Vanderbilt trade From two years ago those picks aren't that good so Memphis gets some half decent picks but then they get the trade exception and they get out of that contract and that's the best they could do so we might have been in the right range with Jaren Jackson right? yeah okay back to trade value wow keep those trades coming NBA this is great what a great idea to go live Group J Sorry we're pot committed here Darren Fox number 49 5 for 260 Is his contract situation That's a lot of money OG Ananobi He's 48 Next two I'll put together Pascal Siakam number 47 He's 3 years 146 Or Julius Randall 3 for 100 I think Randall has more trade value because of the contract. I like both players. I love what Siakam did last year, but if I'm trying to build a team as cheap as possible, I'd rather have Randall. This is true for live TV. I have to run downstairs for 15 seconds to let my child into my house. I'll do it. This is great for live TV. You locked your kid out. I locked him out. So you weren't even listening to my Siakam Randall thing. They're in the perfect spot. I just realized, though. Panic moment. Well, if we can throw to a break, we'll throw to a break. Otherwise, I'll filibuster. Go ahead. Go, go, go. Do your thing. Okay, I'll keep going. So Minnesota, by shedding 10 million, trying to find, is there more? This is hilarious. I wonder if this has happened. Does this ever happen on ESPN where somebody just had to solo? This happened once I did a rewatchables, and I forgot. I brought the wrong iPad out and the iPad ran out of batteries and I had to leave the stage and run back and get the other iPad while Van Lathan and Chris Ryan filibustered. But House out, locking out his own kid. This is borderline child abuse by House, honestly. I'm glad you guys got to witness this. This is kind of Father Joe House's. I can't find any more information about this trade. There's House. I couldn't find any more information and America just decided you're a terrible father. Okay. We're back. Are you back? He wasn't really locked out. Parent corner. Pascal Siakam, 3 for 146, or Rando, 3 for 100? What do you got? Those are both very fair contracts, and both those guys, I mean, really, let's take 10 seconds to commend Pascal Siakam on this season. Really? This season, playing really hard. Exactly. I watched Indiana last night. I know they're tanking, but they're not tanking. That team was trying to win and was super competitive and was really upset that they didn't beat Houston. One of the hardest teams to gamble on. Yeah, it's a stay away. It's a stay away. Number 45, another guy who's played himself back onto the list, LaMelo Ball, four years, $168 million. The Hornets have won seven in a row, and he has gone from maybe being the vicinity of Trey Young and John Moran as a trade asset to, I think, maybe shedding that and is a big part of what Charlotte does. I just think when you combine with how popular he is in Charlotte, I just don't... I think he's moved himself in the top 50 house. I was prepared to fight this one as well, but there is a nucleus there. Yeah. Four guys that really play well together. And those lineups, the five-man, Diabate? He's an important part of it, Ball. Yeah. You're rattled from being screamed at by your son, I can tell. Everything's good. Next three, 44, 43, 42. Dylan Brooks, Zubats, Austin Reeves, all with really good deals. Brooks is 21 and 19 for the next two years. Zubats is in the 18 to 21 range, and Reeves just has 14 this year, and he's getting paid next year. Would that be the order for you? Brooks, then Zubats, then Reeves. Reeves is going to get paid this summer is the problem. I don't think it's a problem. I mean, this seems super fair to me. I feel like Zubats is going to fetch something meaningful, potentially in this upcoming trade deadline. You hear his name? Yeah, Padu Garland for Harden. Yeah. Dylan Brooks being number 44 in a trade value list, I think would have been 501 odds two years ago. And five years from now, we might look back and say, holy cow, that was insane. I'm still watching Phoenix games being unable to comprehend how they're this good. Like Jalen Green's done nothing this year, right? They basically have two guys that you would have counted on and then a bunch of awesome role players who play really hard, and it works. And I don't really understand it. We only have two sons on the list. Number 41 is Aaron Gordon. Did you apologize to Ishbia yet? I'm not going to apologize to Ishbia. Did he apologize to me last year for killing our son's over bet? When we bet on them to win 50 plus games? It's a year-to-year thing. The league goes up and down. Did he apologize to me last year? I had them as over this year. Did you go over with them? Of course, yeah. Of course. You're Mr. Over. No, I'm going to get killed on a couple. Aaron Gordon, number 41. He's 3 for 103. Good contract. I wish we knew he was playing all the time, but I also think he's so essential to Denver. It's not like they'd be like, oh, we'll trade him. Number 40, Kevin Durant. Or number 39, Kawhi Leonard are the last two in this group. Durant is three for 144. Kawhi is two for 100. Plus, you get to learn about planting trees if you have Kawhi on your team. Carbon cares about the carbon footprint. Big tree guy. Really cares about the environment. My question for you, do you think Houston, knowing what they know now, do you think they wish they hadn't done anything and instead would be doing the godfather offer for Giannis right now versus going in last June for KD? Do you think they would want to mulligan on that deep down if you got Raphael Stone drunk at a hotel bar at 2 in the morning and be like, come on, be honest. Now we know what you know. Would you rather just have kept the assets and made a Giannis one? So this season, they would still had Dylan Brooks and Jalen Green. Did they give up cap? They gave up the number 10 pick, too. Oh. Your center that you wanted, who's in the G League. Tough one for your scouting. Malawak. But it's interesting, because now it would be harder for them to pull the trade off. They'd have to put They could have had green as the contract in it. Now they'd have to put one of their good guys. I don't really know the answer, and it doesn't seem like you do either. I don't know the answer. If you were a Houston fan, would you be happy with this current outcome? Only if Steven Adams wasn't hurt. That's the problem. But he gets hurt every year. Is it like a shocker Steven Adams got hurt? Well, okay, FEV and Steven Adams. Yeah, that combo was tough. When it was this, you know. Right, they had FEV before that trade. Yeah. Are you okay with Kawhi at number 39? Yeah. I mean, you know. Yes, he said sadly. Well, what are you going to do? He's on pace to – he's only played 60 games once in the last six years, and he's on pace to play less than 60 games again this year. He's probably been one of the three best guys in the league for the last seven weeks. Right. So I can't not have him in the top 40. I'm with you. I'm not even arguing it. All right, group I is called, that last group was, sorry, we're pot committed here, Fox, Ananobi, Siakam, Randall, Ball, Brooks, Subotz, Reeves, Gordon, Durant, and Kawhi. Big group. Next group, group I. If you're dangling a reckless Bain Bridges type overpay, sure, we'd love to talk. Number 38, Franz Wagner. Number 37, Bam Adebayo. This is the highest he's ever been on one of these lists. He's usually in the 20s. Number 36, Trey Murphy. Number 35, Laurie Markkinen, and number 34, Derek White, who is going to make four years $118 million over this year and the next three. So he's under 30 a year. Trey Murphy also has a good contract, 4-4-1-12. Bam is at 37 this year, and then three years, $161 million. For a guy who's shooting under 50% field goal and feels like he's worse than he was two years ago offensively. And then Franz and Laurie Markkinen are on big kind of basically max deals. So any of those names jump out to you. Well, here's my proposal to you. I would take this entire group and put them either in J or K. Like, I don't, I look at LaMelo Ball and Trey Murphy. I don't, Charlotte's not doing that. They hang up the phone immediately. Trey Murphy making $20 million less though Trey Murphy at 25 and LaMelo Ball at 45 they're getting what they pay for with LaMelo I bet them to make the playoffs he's been hurt all the time I know, that's right, that was a bad example I think that's why he's in that group let's do Franz and LaMelo Ball then speaking of guys who can't stay healthy Franz has been hurt twice Right. You can argue that Fran should be in the previous group. I think that's fair. I can move him. And bam, you can move two groups back as far as I'm concerned. I understand the immeasurable impact defense-wise, and they did this experiment of playing at the fastest pace in the NBA, Miami, with the way they started the season. But where the hell are they now? and he's diminished his own trade value so here would be the counter on Bam he's playing on a team that doesn't really have a single player in their roster who would be like tonight I'm going to make Bam out of Bayou better right? Agreed what would he be like what would he be like with a real guard like what if he was with Donovan Mitchell you know somebody like an explosive guard that could create space for him. I just think he's on a weird team. Cleveland would be a great team for him. Yeah. So we'll go for that group. I'll move Franz back. Adebayo, Murphy, Markkinen, Derek White. And the Derek White case is just, there's just nobody in the league like him right now. When he's out there, and this has been the case for years and years, the lineups are just better and more favorable. He just knows where to go, what to do, how to play. He's an unbelievable defensive player. I think he's in the running for top two all-defense teams this year. And he's just additive. He can't be one of the best two guys on your team, but he can be the third best guy. I'm not going to say one bad thing about him. He delivered a chip to you guys. He's the most important player. We're hitting a really fun part of the trade value pod now. 33 guys left. Group H, two guys. Let me save you some time. Fuck no. My word. We can swear on Netflix. They just ran the rip. Those guys were swearing at each other for two hours. Number 33, Cedric Coward. Number 32, Brandon Miller, who this is a rare type of player, Brandon Miller. We've had these guys throughout the years, these guys that they're not as good as you want them to be, but you don't care. Like you watch them and like that guy might be Ray Allen was like this for a while. Ray Allen ended up having a great career. Yeah. But these guys that you just watch them, you're like, man, I'd fucking kill someone for that jump shot. Man, that guy could have 50 tonight. Oh, my God. It's so effortless, everything that dude does. Like, he's just so talented. And I love his jump shot. I think that might be my favorite jump shot right now. Wow. Anybody you'd have above him? Your favorite jump shot? Yeah, I think it is. It's really great. It's like an old school, awesome, awesome, awesome fucking jump shot. every time he shoots, I think it's going in. If he's open, I just think, I assume it's going in. And it's surprising when it doesn't. Yeah, I really like him. It's pretty good. And Coward, Coward is just, wow. So that's also part of the Memphis. Have you seen him in person? I have not. I did not go to Wizards Memphis. Well, I mean, now he's probably the best player on the roster. It's now a team with, it's Jalen Wells and Coward, right? Yeah, and Jalen Wells is a role player. He'd be good. Yeah, maybe. But they're in the full tank. They have their eyes on the prize now. So that would be a good over-under for us. What do they have? Oh, I already bet it. I bet it under this week, 32 and a half. Thank God. Off the board now. Fando's like, that over-under is gone. We don't trust whatever that team's up to. Okay. I think Coward is incredible. He's very dynamic. You could argue both of those guys could be higher, by the way. You mean inside the top furnace list? Yeah, I'm just saying. You could argue it. I think they're in the right spots. Next group is a one-man group. It's called Group G. Thank God he's on a poison pill and we can't seriously discuss this. Paolo Banqueiro. Yeah. There's no way for them to trade him until the summer. you know everything has been said yeah I think he's taken more shit than any good player this season there's signs of life with the magic and sometimes taking shit can be good for a basketball player as we've witnessed with Jalen Brown right they need an overhaul in the approach in their concept in their scheme I tried to say that to Legs last week Legs doesn't like coach stuff I know. Moses has not done a good job this season. They also never get their three best players healthy at the same time to play 50 games. Never. I will say with Paolo, he was in the top 10 last year when we did this, so now he's 31. That tells you all you need to know. Seems fair to me. I still feel like he could pull it back and be a top 10 guy again, but the question for me is if that's the guy that's taken most of your shots, where you're going. Right? Yeah. I watched it. Went to a Wizards Magic game. What were your takes? He didn't play very much in the fourth quarter. He might not have played at all. He shoots when he touches the ball. Yeah. And it doesn't matter where he is. Group F. This is a unique situation and I'm hanging up. Number 30 Tyrese Halbert. Number 29 Jason Tatum. I have no idea where to put these guys. obviously they're not getting traded obviously nobody's trading for them we can keep moving group B, budding but expensive almost franchise guys almost really interesting category here with the almost franchise guys the not quite franchise guys you and I both have the same definition of a franchise guy you need to guarantee me 45 to 50 wins if you're on my team to be a true franchise guy in my opinion or at least have the potential to do that I don't think any of these three guys do it. Number 28, Jalen Williams, another guy that's dropped. Number 27, Scotty Barnes, having a great year in Toronto. And number 26, Evan Mobley, who has also dropped. It's a great category and absolutely perfect grouping to have the three of them together. All of them inside the top 30. All making big money. Deserve it, too. All making salaries in the mid-40s. So you're not getting deals anymore. they're not. They're second contract guys. And they're probably the second best guy on an awesome team. In Jalen Williams' case, we know for a fact. In Mobley's case, we know for a fact. In Barnes, we'll see. He might be the top guy. He might be. Who? Barnes. But top guy on a finals team? Probably not. No. He's the number two guy on the finals team. Okay. Group D. Some good either-ors in this group. We're down to the top 25. Group D. Number 25, Dylan Harper. Number 24, VJ Edgecombe. Who hangs up faster? The Sixers. The Sixers or the Spurs? The Sixers. I think the Spurs hang up faster. I still had Edgecombe ahead of them. Yeah, Harper fits more with where they're going. That's fine. I mean, I think he gets the benefit, Harper. Actually, the Sixers hang up faster because they already have Maxie. That's what I just said. Yeah, I think they hang up simultaneously. It's almost like a 24 A and B. No, we both hang up. We're not interested. No, thank you. So we had a conversation about whether this was too high for Harper. I'm not sold that this is the right spot for him. You want to make the case or are you just going to be a wuss? Well, only in the sense that I think Vijay Edgecombe is way ahead of Harper. Like not even close in terms of the value and impact. And the proof of concept comes in the form of all of the clutch minutes that VJ Edgecombe has played and propelling that team to the wins that they have. There was no concept of that Sixers team coming into the season that he was going to be playing the crunch time minutes with the big S on his chest and taking very confident shots, shots that make sense of the offense, the last four-minute shots. He's in a class of his own. Honestly, I understand why Cooper Flagg is going to win Rookie of the Year if he doesn't get hurt again. But I have EJ Edgecomb in the conversation for sure. Wow, I think that was your audition for being on an ESPN show. What are you talking about? Cooper Flag and Knipple have been better than Edgecombe. In what situations? This is just offensively. The one that sucks for the first 30 games. That was the Knipple's fault. Edgecombe elevated the situation. I love Edgecombe. I'm not going to argue the other side of Edgecombe. He elevated the situation. Offensively, I think he's in an unbelievable spot where offensively he literally doesn't have to worry about doing anything because he has a right now healthy Joel Embiid with Tyrese Maxey on his team averaging 60 points a game. He didn't have a – Anything he does is a bonus. He didn't have Embiid at the very beginning, and they weren't playing Embiid at the very beginning. You made the key point. He seems to really show up in the last three, four minutes. You can feel him in the game. And he's great at like, I'm not really involved in this play, but I'm going to figure out how to get involved. I'm going to run to the basket from the blind side and try to see if I can tip the ball, anything. Totally agree. And then defensively can do whatever he wants. I love Edgecombe. I love Dylan Harper. And my only regret with Dylan Harper was I just wish he had more minutes. I know why the minutes aren't there, but he's just, the team's almost too good for him. But I think ultimately it would benefit him because he's going to be in these playoff series in a couple months. I would have him behind a whole ton of guys that you have him ahead of. He still remembered me finally on my Dylan Harper number 25. I would push him 20 places back. 2026 Harper is not wowing anybody. Okay. You're going against the guy who told everyone in July that Con Caniple was going to be on the 2028 Olympic team. Just warning you. Number 23 in the apron-friendly untouchables, Jalen Johnson. Five years, $150 million. One of the better bargains in the league and has been really good. I wish his team was more consistent. You the best guy on the team I need you to win a couple games in a row and then not do the thing where you win two or three in a row and you start getting excited and then you stink the next game There might be a coaching situation there too We just... With red glasses Quinn? Why are they so inconsistent? Why are they so underwhelming? They killed the Celtics last week and it was like, here they go. And then I think they lost two games later to somebody terrible. They just can't get healthy at the same time and go on a run. One thing with Jalen Johnson, unbelievable that he wasn't a lottery pick. Remember he had that weird Duke season and he left early and he got the stink on him a little bit? But that guy not being in the lottery is nuts. Worked out for him. Another either or. Number 22, Jalen Duren. Or number 21, Alperin Sengun. Sengun makes five for 185 is his contract because he already maxed up. Duren has not been maxed up yet. So Duren's on a rookie deal. And that could be the argument if you want to have Durin ahead of Shang-Goon. Sure. That he's cheap. But I love Shang-Goon. Every game he almost gets in a fight with somebody now. Like the UFC Turkey side is really starting to come out. See, I have Shang-Goon up in the next group, the group C. Like I would have him. You would have him next to Chet? Yeah, I sure would. Yes, I would. Yes, yes. So you'd have him number 17? Yeah, that class. Well, let me read the next four guys and you tell me if you still feel that way. Number 20, former wizard, Denny Abdiah, who has the best contract in the entire league, three years, $40 million for an NBA player potentially. I'm not going to say a single bad thing about Denny. I'm just going to make the observation. His best use is high use. He needs the ball to be this version of himself. So how many situations can he have the ball? At least this revelation of him. Being on a 500 team makes sense for him to have the ball all the time. But if it's a 55-win team. And he's constantly going downhill. He's a downhill player. So he's a specific type. Again, love him. Love him. And look at Washington's explanation for why they had to trade him when they did. A little side eye. I will confess. I'm not 100% persuaded. I do think ultimately this group of kids, the timeline that Washington has, but man this version of Denny is really something people seem to be relatively surprised he was an all-star I mean to me it was like Denny Adia made it it was like yeah, do you watch fucking basketball? to me he's still in the all-NBA conversation he did get hurt last week so he's had some back issues number 19, Stephon Castle number 18 con canipple number 17 a man thompson this is probably my favorite grouping of the entire list i think thompson has to be first out of those three canipple versus castle is a great argument canipple you get an extra year of him on the rookie contract i just i honestly can't believe how good canipple is i can't believe it i can't believe the shit he's doing in these games like he's getting like hard baskets and you know, four minutes left, high game. He's getting like physical, takes a guy into the paint, up fake, puts his shoulder against him, gets a 15-footer, like professional baskets that 29-year-olds make. Right. And then Castle, what he did to Durant last week was one of the great things anyone's done all year. Like just absolutely gotten his shit and shut down one of the greatest scorers in the history of the league. Just shut him down. I don't care. He's 37. Literally a joy to watch. could not care more game to game. Maybe cares the most. Maybe, I wouldn't say cares the most, but if you rate guys 1 to 100 for how much you care about each game, he's probably 100. It's not time for us to do this, but it's going to be really fascinating as the playoffs approach when we try and forecast how San Antonio is going to perform in the playoffs. Because the conundrum is, as hard as they play, can they go up another level? Can they go up another level against a team that plays them over a seven-game series? Do they have the ability to change? Right. So this is the old football thing. Are you the regular season really good team, or do you have the other? Can you up at one level for the playoffs? The way that they came back against Houston last week and just took that game away and bullied Houston in the fourth quarter. Yeah. The history of the league says bet on the team that's a year too soon than a year too late. and that if there's signs of what they did last week against Houston, bet on that because in the playoffs that tends to blossom in an even bigger way. Castle Knipple Thompson, that's about as – Really fun. Like 20 years ago, all three of those guys probably were in the top 10. Group C, the not apron-friendly untouchables. And there's one argument to have, but let me read all the guys. All these guys have big contracts. Number 16, Chad Holmgren, Jamal Murray, Jalen Brown. Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson, number 11. And the reason he's number 11 is because by far he has the best contract. He is four years for 156. You're basically saving $10 million a year by having Jalen Brunson on your team. And I think that swings it. I have all these guys near each other. Does that order look right to you, or would you raise your hand? The only player that I'd like to have a conversation about is Chet. Because this group of players right here are all guys that could absolutely, we have proof of concept. Jamal Murray helped Denver win a championship. Crucial, crucial player to Denver winning a championship. Jalen Brown, crucial player to the Celtics winning a championship. Devin Booker, crucial player in the NBA finals. finals finals right uh jalen brunson sacrifice however you want to characterize whatever happened with this this deal that whatever accommodations were made accommodated a situation where the knicks have a genuine chance to to once again be in the eastern conference finals and make a push to get into the well that that would be one thing why he would be more untradeable because obviously things were said and things were promised. Not a knock. I think he's perfect at place. Wait a second. What about that meeting I taped? I don't have Chet Holmgren in this class is all I'm saying. It sounds like you want to put Chet Holmgren and Shingun together. Yeah. Honestly, I'd rather have Shingun over at Holmgren. Wow. I think over the course of their entire careers, Shingun has, I'm going to knock on wood, I don't want to jinx him, has the capacity to avoid injuries that have him out for extended stretches. Right. And he plays a very physical brand of basketball that makes him very special in this. I mean, again. Chet's had a couple injuries already. I guess with Holmgren, the defense and then the metrics that back up his defense, it's way, way up there. You also feel it when Hartenstein goes out. They were on a little bit of a slide into the Denver game. But on paper, threes and rim protection, that's what you're looking for. All right, we can move. So I can move Holmgren back right after. So it goes Thompson, Knipple, Castle, then Schengen, Holmgren, then Avdia, then Jalen Dern. I'll do that. Let me ask this. So I'd make group C would be Jamal Murray, Jalen Brown, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson. Do you like that? Yeah. Yes, that's very fair. Okay. We're now in the top 10. And we have two groups left. Group B, only if they made us do it. Number 10, Steph Curry. Number nine, Giannis and Tedokopo. So Giannis is making them do it, and Steph, I guess, won't. I wish he would. The Steph thing's hard because nobody, like, would it make sense for San Antonio to trade Steph and Castle for Steph Curry? Of course. What kind of question is that? Right. but they can't do it with the cap because one guy makes $7 million a year and the other guy makes $50 million. So that's where, like he makes so much money that it kind of throws off, it's like no trade is realistic for him is my point. For Steph Curry? Because Golden State's not trading him for Brunson, Mitchell, Booker, Brown, or Murray. Why would you at that point? You're just going sideways. Right. You're not really trading him for one of these younger assets like Castle, Knipple, Thompson, just because what does that do for those teams? Oh, who? I don't know. Steph Curry on Houston? For Thompson, FEV? I would consider it. Like, Amon is untouchable to me, nearly. You just said you would consider it, though. Fucking Steph Curry. Ford's a rant would be so bundled out. It's like, what the fuck? Now I get to hear that. I'm trying to punch this, guys. trying to fix this stuff thing. And then Giannis, if he had a contract that everyone felt good about and a situation that everybody felt like he was staying in, he'd be higher than number nine. Sure. Right. He's going to get traded, so he can't be... He will not be traded for any of these next eight guys. This is Group A, completely and utterly untouchable. Number eight, Tyrese Maxey, and number seven, Cade Cunningham. Two, two. really impressive seasons. Hang-ups. Way to go. Hey, I'm calling about Cade. I'm just hanging up. Hey, what's the deal with Maxie? I hung up. Here, I need to do it with both hands. We need both those guys healthy for the NBA playoffs. We need those guys in the Eastern Conference Finals. Or wherever the Sixers end up. Maxie's hit a point where I'm not even sure who he reminds me of in NBA history. Oh, wow. He's almost like, I was almost thinking of other sports. Huh. Like he reminds me of Jameer Gibbs. It's the speed. It's the speed, but it's like these little stretches, these four-minute stretches he has where he just completely takes over the game and the other team's helpless, and you know he's doing it. He's making everybody good. It reminds me of like those Lions drives where Gibbs is like, here's Gibbs again for 12. here's Gibbs on the wheel route for 25 and the other team's like, we can't stop this? Or B. John Robinson when he gets like that? That's who he reminds me of. Yeah, these crazy athletes just taking over a drive. He takes over drives, even though NBA games are obviously different than football, but he'll take over these six-minute stretches. He's done it over and over again. They'll be down 10 and then all of a sudden Maxey will just hit two threes. He gets a fast-break layup and he gets a floater and it's a tie game. And the Philly fans are going nuts. We're like, what just happened? They were down 10. I can't think of any other players like him. In history. Yeah, and I'm not saying like, I'm not putting him up in the Pantheon. I'm just saying, I don't know what kind of guard was like him that I've watched. What's artificial intelligence say? That's what we have to ask. You're going to like Gemini? I'm in one right now. The historical comp that comes up, speaking of AI, is AI. Oh, that's interesting. AI wasn't the shooter that Max was. No, I agree. I loved AI, and you and I were both, we were on the fucking wall with AI. Deep, deep AI. Deep, deep defenders of AI. Yeah. But yeah, he was streaky, but not like Maxie. Maxie's getting the ball off rebounds, and you know he's going to go 80 feet, and he just does it. And the team seems like they were completely surprised by it each time. And then Cade, I mean, the stuff he's doing where he's really the only option, they just traded Jaden Ivey today. They finally punted on that. Playmaker, playmaker. Tough. He leads with his chest. I mean, can't say enough good things about that dude. And all the losing that Monty Williams year, just getting kicked in the nuts and kicked in the teeth for four months feels like made him and a couple other guys in those teams. They have Herter now. That solves one of their shooting open questions. Maybe. Maybe you flip Herter into something else. I still think that Michael Porter Jr. He doesn't play defense though. Do you need defense on that team? I think that team has enough team defense. They're strong. That's what Jalen Darn is for. After Porter fucked up that Celtics play a couple weeks ago when we just got a wide open three to tie the game and I was like, I don't know. All right. Here we go. Most controversial moment of the column. Of the podcast. I don't even know. Am I doing a column or a podcast? The next two guys are number six and number five. Number six, Luka Doncic. Number five, Cooper Flagg. Yeah, I mean, obviously. Obviously what? Say it. Obviously what? All you can do, I think there are many, many teams in the league that would value many of the players that we've already gone through higher than Cooper Flagg. On a rookie deal making like $11 million a year at age 19. That's the argument. That's the argument. Doing things at his age that nobody's done in the history of the league. that's the argument not even Kobe Bryant right no I get it not even Kevin Gardner it is the evolutionary you know this is the version this is how we've gotten so lucky as we've gotten older the way that the league has developed the way these kids come in more and more and more ready like we live through a whole history of kids that jump straight from high school into the pros and now you have to go through one year of college but they're very young in their first year of college because of the way that the... Yeah, and he skipped a year of high school, so he was even a year younger. They're all that reclass. I was kind of trying to think about it. Isn't that what it's called? Reclassifying or whatever? Well, he reclassed during the season because he went from being a really good rookie to a fucking animal in the last two months. I cannot believe what I watched. I watched the two Mavs games, the 49-pointer against Charlotte, and then I watched that other game the next morning. It was Houston, wasn't it? Yeah, 37, whatever he did. I cannot believe, I honestly cannot believe how much better he is than he was at the start of the year. I can't believe it. He has, I was texting with Legler about it, because Legler did the Houston game. I was texting him next day. I was like, I don't understand. This guy now has a finishing move where he goes left, full speed, and does this craning lefty layup off the glass that he makes. Which, by the way, it took five years for Jason Tatum didn't even have that shot and he misses it like half the time or he missed it before he got hurt. So he's got that as a finishing move. He has this hesitation move where it seems like he's going to the basket. He stops and then he keeps going that I haven't seen anyone stop yet. He's got this move where he goes into the paint, spins around and does a little one-handed like 12-footer. He has that. He has a pull-up jumper already and he's running the team. He's playing point forward for them. Jason Tatum couldn't do this until like year five I'm dumbfounded by this this guy was supposed to be this awesome two way glue guy had some offense but was just impactful Oliver this guy's an elite offensive player already if you actually watch those games the shit he was doing was like impossible so that's my Cooper flag case Houston couldn't defend him Houston had a men Thompson on him and he was going by him because he can start and stop in a way that pull up jumper makes him you have to respect it now he's by you And he's by you with both hands. And the full speed lefty. He can fake the full speed, but they come up. He can go back, come up. He can do the lefty, and then he can spin into the right hand. I just can't believe what I'm watching. On top of, he's a really good defensive player already. Like, really good. He rebounds. I think he's fine defensively. That's the part of it that makes me. Well, I think he should be a stretch four, but they're playing him, he's guarding like guards half the time. He should be guarding like Pascal Siakam and Jalen Brown and people like that. I agree. that's the only that would be the portion of it where you know what's interesting about this is Cooper Flagg is 5 and Luca is 6 on this list Luca makes 5 times as much money and he's 7, 8 years older right they don't get Cooper Flagg unless they fuck up this Luca thing I was texting with our friend Jason Galgar about this diehard Mavs fan and I was like dude you just have to admit this worked out it was horrible. It traumatized the city. It almost ruined basketball in Dallas until you ended up with Flagg. I would just rather have Flagg. I think in a weird way, but he was like, that's fine, but we built this team. He was like, I see the case, but we built this team for Luka and we made the finals and we had a chance to win with Luka. And he was saying, what bums out the MASS fans because they love Luka is that now Luka's on a mediocre team again. And now he's two years away from being where he was two years ago and he just lost all this time. So I think they just really wanted Luka to win a title like they wanted Dirk. So I get it. All that's super fair. I agree with every single word that he said, especially the part about the Lakers still being two years away from having the right players around him for him to be the best version of himself. And I will say, having the good fortune of having great seats to see him, he's in shape he looks good he's moving good he was motivated because he knew he was going to get that triple-double in the first half against Washington but flag holy shit he was 18 for the first two months of the year I just can't believe what we're watching you should not be able to do this for your 20 you should not be able to run NBA teams playing out of position and getting every shot you want and doing all the things that he does The writhing with the brain is the thing. That's why you have to live with it. I also like that in two years, he's made himself so much better in all these different ways. Clearly, he just works his ass off on his game. And he's added all these different things that I just don't even think he had to do. But what do I know? Number four, Anthony Edwards. Number three, Shea Gilgis-Alexander. Number two, Nikola Jokic. Number one, Victor Wemediama. anything off on that final four for you? No. Stealth, you could make if we were on first take and you wanted to just zag you could do the alright you have Victor Wambanyama first is he going to play 20 games in a row? Am I going to get that? Am I going to get nine months out of this guy? Is he going to stay healthy? Is he going to be healthy four years from now? You would do that thing. I'm cool betting on the 7 foot 7 guy who's the generational freak. I'm still going to bet on that. Who's like 22. And part of what should be encouraging for Spurs fans and for Wemby fans is you can see him putting on weight this season. He has developed a little bit. But out of the Yao Ming, this actually feels like it might be hurting you. He's still moving awesome. It's making sense. so if that's you know the path that he's on at his height and his body can hold up and he can just grow in you know to becoming the the version of the tough guy that that he i mean he's already pretty tough he's he he is showing us that he's up for you know guys getting into him getting into his shit i love you know how um oklahoma city uh you know he he just enjoys torturing chet he's made it a pet project of his. That's really why you wanted to drop Chet into the 20s. Wemby's declared war on Chet. And he's made him his bitch. I mean, I think Wemby pretty clearly has done it successfully. Chet is the defending champion. Well, that's it. Not a lot of drama for the end unless you wanted to have a Jokic versus Alexander debate. For what? No. Yeah. No. No. I'm not doing that. Okay. And before we go, because I've had you for two hours. I had a great time, by the way. Thank you. I've enjoyed it. Did we somehow manage to not, you don't have to have any British tabloids chasing you? Because that was like, what was it, two years ago we did the trade value column? Yeah, that's true. Talked about it. I'd also like to shout out Cooper Flag's mom. Longtime diehard Celtics fan. I would encourage you to read in the CBA agreement that you don't have to sign a second deal with the team that drafted you you can just take it to free agency and bet on yourself and I don't think anything would be more meaningful to the flag family and to the region of New England for him to play on the Boston Celtics with his second contract so I'd like to shout out her I hope she's doing great hopefully she'll come to All-Star Weekend I can maybe get a meal with her and talk to her and maybe become friends with her. I don't want to prolong this show, but I am interested in how Dallas kind of has to move up his timeline a little bit, doesn't it? With how he looks now? Yeah. Yeah. You have Lively and you have Cooper Flagg. Right. What else? Well, Lively's out for the whole year. No, I understand, but you're talking about timeline. You're talking about what are the assets? How are you going to build around this kid? What's the team? Can I ask you one question that I was looking at for the play-in bets? I'm listening. Dallas is 33-1 to make the play-in. Right now, hold on, let me find out. Right now they are the 12 seed. They're 19-30. They're three games behind Portland who has 27 losses and four games behind the Clippers. And watching Dallas, they're in all these games? Right? They're in all these games. Barely lost to the Lakers. Minnesota beat them. They barely lost to Charlotte. They barely lost to Houston. They beat the Knicks. Gold State beat Utah twice. They're a 500 team with a guy who's getting better, and maybe Davis comes back. I just thought 33-1 I thought was crazy. Is Davis coming back? What important tanks? Is Davis coming back? I don't know. When's Kyrie coming back? Hopefully soon. Unless they're tanking. They can't score at the end of the game. he's trying he's singularly here's the other thing since since the start of this podcast where we've had multiple trades and we sorted out the 80 best trade value guys and even moved some of the list around a little bit it seems like the Timberwolves have moved all of their forces into Giannis Island and they're trying to invade oh wow yeah that seems to be yeah that seems to be wow what's happening here where we have they cut money there by getting rid of Conley they have a little more flexibility and they seem to be rounding up now what they would have to do to get Giannis it would involve Randall it would involve Nas Reed and DiFincenzo probably to make the contracts work. They probably have to be a third team where somebody gets one of those guys. And you basically just try to end up with Giannis and Ant and Gobert. And just patch around, maybe get some buyout guys. But I would think that would be their plan. They have that Berenger who I really like too, that rookie. The French guy. Maybe he could be in the trade. They have some swaps I guess they can do. But my question is, if Giannis says to the Bucs, I want a title for you, I'd like to play with Anthony Edwards and try to win another title. I've paid my dues here. I've been here 13 years. I've been great for the community. I've been an awesome guy. Can you trade me to Minnesota? Does Milwaukee then have an obligation to do that? No. And that's how I feel too. No. They could say, we'll try to do it. Yes. The offer has to be solid enough. Do we think that Portland in their deal with Milwaukee got back enough for Dame? What do you mean? When they traded Dame to Milwaukee. Portland got enough back. They got some kick-ass Milwaukee picks for the end of the decade that they were kind of banking on, hey, maybe this Giannis thing won't be working out five years from now. We'll have some picks. So that trade, remember that big argument about their offer versus the Miami offer? That was never an argument. That was just Miami. Well, it was an argument for a lot of people who didn't follow basketball. Right. Yeah, so Minnesota. And then I never have thought Golden State has enough, and I don't know why he'd want to go there. Like, if he's getting traded, it's got to be to a place that wins the title. Cleveland, as we mentioned earlier, especially now that Memphis has this trade exception, maybe they can take salary there and figure out Mobley. And I still think it'll never come out if Boston's involved, but I'm still watching what Boston does. The East makes more sense to me than the West still because the West is so loaded and by my forecasting is going to remain loaded for a while yet. Right. So that's what you put yourself into. Boston can go really stealth if they wanted to put Jalen on the table. which as I'm on the record as saying Jalen and Tatum, I hope they retire as Celtics together. But I'm just saying the Celtics could get the organization. They organization is basically Chisholm and Brad and nobody else would know. And if they really wanted to kick the tires on Jalen and Giannis as part of a package with some picks and then Milwaukee could send Jalen somewhere else, like you're at least having lunch about that and talking about that. If you and I were running the Celtics, we would probably have lunch. You would probably overeat. I would definitely overeat and then that's what happened by the way chicken parm last night was great kind of broke my carbs thing a little bit because you knew we were going to be together at the end of this week you better get ready I'm prepared to be disappointing to be healthy as you look at me and discuss wait till we see what comes to the table whether or not you can resist it we'll be at Celtics Heat Friday and then Bob Cousy the ceremony on Saturday for our school Holy Cross. We get to watch them dedicate the court and meet the Coos. I'm so excited. And apparently maybe Jalen Coker. Hey, love that guy. Our guy Jalen Coker. The other thing is we're going to do our Super Bowl pick at the end of Thursday's episode. So it'll be like a 20 minute segment. You have Fairway Roland coming this week. Yeah. You're recording. Get some coffee. I'll be good to go. Unlock your kid out of the closet. We can golf. I have rewatchables just went up wild things so you can find on Spotify on Netflix wherever you get your podcast next week's episode Ace Ventura oh great one Pet Detective that is our next episode on Monday iconic both of the Ace Ventura movies are on Netflix we have not done that one yet that's amazing anyway thanks to Gahau and Eduardo and everybody at The Ringer as well don't forget to read TheRinger.com for all the updated stuff enjoy the 48 hours leading to the trade deadline house thank you see you in a couple days we did it see you buddy must be 21 plus in president select states for kansas in affiliation with kansas star casino or 18 plus in president dc kentucky or wyoming gambling problem call 100 gambler visit rg-help.com call 888-79-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York for Louisiana. 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