The Truth, Trauma, and Transformation of Sherri Papini | E8

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Hello, my name is Tim Story. Welcome to MiracleMetallity. Remember rooftops, drawn spaceships on the ground. It's for the dreamers, the doers, the believers in something greater. In each episode, I'll invite you to rise above the mundane, to push past the messy, and learn to live boldly in the miraculous. Every episode will have practical wisdom, spiritual insight, and my guests will explore what it takes to activate your Miracle Mindset. Remember to subscribe, follow, and like. I've had the privilege to work with a lot of people, literally all over the world, 82 countries of the world now, helping people turn their setbacks to comebacks. I think yours is one of the most unique stories that I've ever worked with. And by getting to know you as a person, I see the depth in you. I see the life in you. Mostly when you tell me about what you were like as a child. So let's fast forward into the now. What is it like to see yourself on the cover of a magazine? When people think about being on the cover of the magazine, they usually think about for different things. Maybe there's a movie that came out or a play. When you see yourself on the cover of magazines, what goes to your mind? Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me here. I can't even tell you how much I appreciate the opportunity. In terms of seeing my face, it's something very surreal when you're in a grocery store and you're going to check out and your face is on a tabloid magazine. It's, most of the time, it's pretty horrifying. It's pretty uncomfortable because it's a lot of uncomfortable exposure. So I've been saying this for years. Sometimes in life, you live by design and then sometimes you live by default. And when people have a default, that means their life went kind of off the tracks for a while. So when you thought of yourself as a little girl, let's say even when you were 15, 16 years of age, what did you dream about becoming? A mom. Wow. A mom. Because a lot of people will say to me, maybe a veterinarian or a gymnast. Already you were thinking about being a mother. Yeah. Why do you think you were thinking that way? Did you see great mothers? What was the reason you were thinking that way? Well, I've always been really nurturing. I've always been an animal lover. I grew up in a country town. We raised chickens and had a lot of ducks and chickens and dogs and all sorts of animals. So I was always really nurturing. And I really feel like I came to life when and found my purpose when I became a mother. Yeah. So as your life started to unfold, getting married, you got married, then you have two amazing children. Tell me a highlight in your life as a young mother where you were like, this is starting to make sense as a mother, whether it's taking your children for walks or taking them out different places. Give me a moment and a feeling. Well, I think I really got put to the test when COVID happened. So COVID happened and everything shut down. And I had elementary school children. And what that means is you had to homeschool and you had to learn how to homeschool. And I just jumped right into it. I mean, I had a studio that I was using as my art studio for sewing projects and painting and things and completely reconstructed it. And by the looks of it, it was a real classroom. I had taken everything apart and put in whiteboards and chalkboards and two desks for the kids and built a library for them. And in fact, we loved homeschool so much that we kept it an extra year instead of going back to on campus. And I was building curriculum. I wasn't just doing what the teachers were giving. I was making sure it was customized to my kids and doing special classes for them and extracurriculars and building art projects and other curriculum that was based on their needs and learning how my children learned and really steeping everything that I could in this love for my kids. And it was an exceptional experience. So with your children at that point, do you feel like you were fulfilled? Absolutely. At least in the relationship with your children. Yeah. Okay. So then a little later in life, you find out that you are in a marriage that is not working with, as you say, with a narcissistic husband. When the lights go on to where you feel like you are almost trapped and we'll get into this in a moment, almost like you are incarcerated in this type of marriage. Tell us what that feels like because there's people that are watching right now that feel the same way about their life. What did that feel like to you? Well, I think for me, it's the difference between victim and survivor. You know, victim is being trapped. It means that there's no choice. Survivor means the freedom of choice. And when you're trapped in coercive control or a marriage that is incredibly controlling or dominating, I really did not see any other choices. There was no choices given to me. There was not a lot of freedom and there was not a lot of choice there. And when we're taken, when our freedom is taken, especially our freedom of choice, it really crumbles you as a person. It deeply affects you every day as a person. So I've spent some time recently watching a new documentary that's out on you, which is highly rated. It's getting very good reviews. But also I've been reading a lot of comments that are not so nice towards you. So when I dialogue with you, I see the kindness, I see the caring, I see your willingness to change. Where some of the comments that I was reading, having to do with your life is, she never took accountability. She caused so many people harm by saying this took place and now she's wanting to come clean and as we all should forget. When you hear these negative things, what goes through your mind? Well, I think if we look at the people that are commenting, these are deeply traumatized people as well. And I think that the people that are in the comments there, they've all probably been touched by malevolence and they've all probably been touched by someone who's been deceitful, dishonest or lied to them. And so it's very personal. My story's so relatable and it's so personal that it gets people really passionate and really worked up. And when you have something that touches that close to home, it can tend to come from a really defensive point of view and that's okay. It just means that you've had your own touch of that type of behavior. Does it ever feel like they're talking about somebody else and I'll give you an example. I remember when the internet started to really come out and I read some negative things that people had written about me. And in high school, I was very popular. I didn't really know. I didn't have many people that disliked me and I couldn't believe the pile on on what some people thought that Tim's story was like. It was like two different human beings that we were talking about. So can you relate to that a little bit? Well, absolutely. And I think, I'm sure that that did it affect you. Yes, it did. To be honest with you, it really hurt my feelings and I was shocked how much it did hurt my feelings. Yeah. Well, again, this is such a relatable subject and I think when we look a little bit deeper instead of coming from a defensive point of view, then we can open up more engagement and more healing for people. My story comes with a lot of willingness for curiosity really. I mean, my story allows the opportunity for a lot of curiosity. And that's pretty quickly seen by the engagement of conversation that the documentary has caused. I've learned in the last near decade of being really viciously reported in the media to not look at the comments and turn the comments off and being able to stay focused and grounded and knowing who I am and knowing what I'm capable of and knowing the growth that I've come to understand. And also really in my self-awareness and learning about myself, I've come to understand where you come from when you come from a defensive standpoint. So this idea of people talking about you, did you have much of that in high school of people being negative? Did you ever go through something like that? No, no. Well, I mean, I grew up in a really small town so our community is pretty tight. But I had an interesting class that I was in. It was very eclectic and the people that were in band also played on the volleyball team and the cheerleaders were also in drama. So we had this really interesting melting pot and there really wasn't a whole lot of, there was way more camaraderie than there was separation in my class. So I had a pretty easy compared to most. Yeah, something I don't know. What is your maiden name? It was Graf, but I'm actually gonna be changing it to Louis. My grandmother's maiden name. Ah, and then somehow you became a Papini. Yes, okay. So how interesting is it that me in my life, just mining my own business, really was understanding your story years ago and reading about your story and seeing your story in the news. But again, I'm seeing it through the lens of media. Okay, so then being able to know you now and work with you, to be honest, it's like it's two different Sherries that I heard about and that I know, right? How frustrating is that for you that so many people think they know you, but they don't really know the real you? Well, I think it's gonna take time. You know, I think that I maintained purposeful silence and I've just spoken for the very first time. So I think it's gonna take time. I think that the documentary was an incredible start and now I'm free and I'm able to keep going and I'm able to keep cultivating new relationships and allowing people to get to know me because there's a lot of curiosity still and there's a lot of questions still. And I think we'll get there. I think it's just gonna take some time. So you watched your own documentary that was recently. Give me two thoughts that were going through your mind as you were watching. Oh, it's terrifying because I purposefully relinquished my creative control and what that means is it means that I am not in the editing room. I cannot tell them what to put in and what to take out if something's uncomfortable or there's some twitch or some misspoken word in some way. I have no control over that. But what I wanted is I wanted it to be as authentic and genuine as possible and watching something that is steeped in integrity and wanting to continue balance was challenging because with every good part that we put in there, with every deep and meaningful part we had in there, it had to be met with balance and opposition. And when you're met with balance and opposition with people that are already going into it with a biased opinion, it's really hard to battle that. It's really hard. But I think the documentary gave a lot of those missing pieces and it filled a lot of the gaps. And even, you know, we come to the end and there's still curiosity and there's still questions and there's still a long way to go. So this is not even close to it. Okay, so let's dive a little deeper. So I think in terms of three prisons, the prison of being in a marriage that was not working, that you say you were married to a narcissistic man, okay? The second time you were incarcerated in prison would be what? Captivity with James. And to be fair, I'm not a therapist and I don't claim to diagnose Keith. I'm just going based off of patterns of behaviors. It's just my opinion. I'm not a mental health professional, but I do recognize abuse. Okay, so let's get into the second one. Yeah. So explain that captivity, that incarceration of- Certainly. And I would like to know maybe some things that you've not shared before about the awkwardness of what is happening to my life. Cause you know, I've been working with people for over three decades that go through challenges. And one of the things they say many times is, Tim, it doesn't feel like this is actually my life. So can you try to explain that? Because you had the imprisonment of the marriage that was not working. And then you become abducted, right? And all the horrific things that we know happen to you. And talk to me about the second incarceration. 22 days of captivity. It was difficult to continue reliving it. You know, so many people keep flashing these photographs of my injuries and they brush it off because the opinion out there is that I did them to myself and it somehow makes it easier for you to look at it and humiliate me and dehumanize me. But there's a person in there. There's a person who's naked in there. And it's incredibly difficult to keep seeing them over and over and over and over again and reliving it over and over again. And it's very simple for it to be brushed off when your opinion is that I did it to myself. Yeah, I think the unfairness of the public opinion is that there's been so many stories even when someone has been falsely accused and then falsely incarcerated. Because as you know, I work in prison reform. And we get somebody out and we find out later the person didn't even do it. So what I want to say is what if all that really did happen to you? You said it happened to you. What if it really did? People need to take that into account that maybe just because they were swayed by something they read or saw in the media or by their own bias for you to be humiliated, raped, all the things that you went through, chained. How important is it for you to try to explain to people to understand that this did take place in your life? Well, I think first and foremost, that was the point. The point was to try and cover all of that up because I didn't want to talk about it. And this is the difficult part of learning to take accountability, but also not taking too much accountability. And standing up to a very big government and standing up to people that have gotten it really wrong. And that's what I've been up against for the past near a decade now is there is a lot that's really wrong. There's a lot that's right, but there's a lot that's really wrong. There's a scene in the documentary that I actually watched four times to try to understand it. You are being investigated by the FBI. There's two men in the room with your ex-husband, and it's you. And they're really coming at you strong with what happened. At that moment, what was going through your mind? What was your feelings? What was taking place in you as they were trying to get the truth out of you of what your relationship was with with the person that abducted you? Well, I can tell you with certainty, their biggest misstep was trying to get it out with fear. That tactic did not work with me. Scaring me into telling the truth, it didn't work, it just made me double down. There was no opportunity for safety. These law enforcement officers went and had a very informal interrogation with James and fed him. They coerced him into this confession that he had, and they offered him safety, and they offered him, they knew that he was lying, and they offered him a way out. I wasn't granted that type of comfort. They came down really hard on me, and it was done in front of my husband, who was already displaying very aggressive, angry body language, and I knew there was no way out, because the second, even if they took Keith out of the room, I could still see him through the window. I could see that he was there. I was leaving in the same car with him, so there was no opportunity to have safety, knowing that I'm either going to get clobbered by law enforcement, or get clobbered by my husband, or get clobbered by James, because I'm on camera, and he's watching me the entire time. So this is a very interesting question. Did you feel at that time you were innocent, or semi-innocent? Oh, I knew, I always knew I was innocent. I knew that I was guilty of lying, that's sure. I knew that there was a cover-up, but in terms of a planned hoax, faked kidnapping, absolutely not. Yeah, okay. So then you literally have to go to prison. Difference between prison and jail? Big difference. Just like a motel and a hotel are two different things. Prison and jail are two different things. Some people don't understand that. I've been to both, actually. You know, when I was arrested in front of my children, they had me in holding, so I was in the Sacramento County Jail for eight days, and then have also been to a federal prison. So something happens to you. So when I'm watching this documentary, I see something very interesting. I was very into this character, and tell me her name again, when she at first did not think you were that great. Moe. Moe, yeah. And when Moe was talking about you, you know, here you come in, don't look like you're a person that usually spends time with some of the people that were in there. They have seen so much of the story already in the press, but you found some type of liberation, some type of freedom in prison. Can you go there with me? Because this even surprised me when we were dialoguing about this when we were coaching with each other. Well, prison is the safest that I've felt in 16 years, and that is not a statement that, I'm not alone in that statement. There are so many women that are incarcerated that share that same fate, sadly, but remains to be true. You know, 16 years in prison is the safest that I felt, and I really had an opportunity to spend 11 months digging in deep to that safety away from the world and away from society, still having to deal with a lot of trouble and a lot of mental and emotional struggles. Yes. But I really had a moment away from cameras and away from society to dig in deep. Okay, so let's talk to people. Everybody is going through recovery and discovery at all times. So every single person that's watching us right now, they're going through recovery of some sort, whether it's their present or their past. The discovery is what is unfolding. So when you are incarcerated, let's call it the third incarceration, the prison, you started to have some discovery moments where you started to discover this other side of Sherry. Mm-hmm. Jimmy, one thing you started to like about yourself, in the midst of a lot of people not liking you at that time, give me something you started liking about yourself. Well, I think one of the really interesting things for me in prison was this sociological experiment that I got to do. So when you were in Victorville Federal Prison at the women's camp, it's kind of like the inside of a Costco. There's these metal bunks and you have a brick wall that goes up to the top bunk. So if you stay on the top bunk, you see everyone, as well as everyone sees you. There's not a lot of privacy in prison. And so I got to witness hundreds of these women in this camp, in this unit that I was in. And I got to really observe behavior and defense structures and some toxic behavior and some positive behavior. And all, it was this big melting pot. So I had this opportunity to be in a fishbowl, really, and observe some pattern behavior and also go, oh, that's what that looks like. I did that. Oh, no, I used to do that. That's what that looks like. And it was really this like, when you are not so trapped. And when you have a broader perspective. You're exposed. I got so much perspective. I got perspective on my childhood. I got perspective on my parents. I got perspective on relational pieces. I got perspective on emotional pieces. Through my observation of all of these other deeply traumatized women that were in there and some that have beautiful, amazing, empowering stories and others that don't, it was very moving and highly impactful for me. Thank you for watching the Miracle Mentality Podcast. So many of my friends are texting me, DMing me, speaking to me and saying, Tim, thank you for these great guests that you're bringing on. So share it with somebody, a friend, a family member, a colleague, and then make sure and reach out to us at TimStoryOfficial and let us know that you love what we're doing. Thank you for being a part of this movement. Okay, let's go to a subject that's going to go a little deeper, okay? You have been labeled. So when I see these headlines on you over all these years, there's certain labels that I won't even say what they are, but it has to do with the fact that you didn't do everything correct. So a label is an interesting thing. A label is a marker or a tag. So like for instance, we all label people. So let's say if we were to walk into Thanksgiving and I said to you, oh, Sherry, let me just tell you, don't sit next to my uncle because he tells terrible jokes. That's a label, okay? Or my aunt, you may not like her because she gossipes about everybody. So you have been labeled as a person that allegedly did certain things. You possibly ran away in some people's minds. You hid the truth in some people's minds. So there's this label. The label creates a language where people begin to speak out how they have labeled us. You following me? Okay. So what I want to challenge you on today is, are the labels that people say about you, the negative labels, are they true? And if they're not true, tell me why they're not true. No, they're not true. The, I think the most prominent label is that I'm a liar and that infers that everything that comes out of my mouth is a lie. And that couldn't be farther from the label. Okay, can you come at me a little stronger when you say that? I'm gonna, let me be a therapist for a minute. The labels that people say about you that are negative, if they're not true, tell me why they're not true. Well, I don't think that I should be given a life sentence for a mistake that I made and a decision that I made, especially certainly when I take accountability for it and I demonstrate how it's been a catalyst to the change in my life. I think you're correct because you, there was a time in the documentary that you said, everybody lies. And I think once again, when you're doing a documentary, you're filming for a long time. So who knows what hour you did that at? And said that. But I also think another way of saying it is, we are all undone. I'm undone, you're undone. Everybody that's watching this is slightly undone. We all have things in our lives that we are working on. Is that correct? Yeah, and I think it kind of touches on like how, you know, in this culture that we have, being able to break through all of these people that are considering me disposable. Okay, talk to me about that. I'm not, I'm not a disposable person. I made a mistake that I took accountability for and I continue to take accountability for. So why do you refuse just to go away and just live somewhere, raise your children and just go away? Because as we have our talks, you're talking about your new book that's coming out, which is gonna shed so much light on who you really are, the person that I'm getting to know. And I think so many people are gonna be liberated by your story. So that's very powerful. And you're getting emotional, I want you to go there, okay? Because I think sometimes you pull it back. So with the book, I'm excited about that. I'm also excited about you being interviewed and being on stages and sharing your story. When you think about truly taking your mess and turning it into a message, what excites you about that, about helping people? What happened to me is preventable. And I am not my mistake. I'm so much more. We'll go there for it. Go there and tell me, what do you mean? I'm so much more than the mistake that I made. But you know that, it's not like you're trying to convince yourself of this, it's something that you know. Yeah. Deep down inside yourself, it's not just for your amazing children, but you know you're more than your mistake. And you know that we all have setbacks. And as you know my teaching, we don't have to sit or settle or cement ourselves. Because really, Sherry, who and the hell are you gonna help if you just sit in your setback? I'm glad you have the guts to get back up. Not in perfection, but you will probably always slightly have a little bit of a limp in life, but so do I. I think all of us are playing a little bit hurt. When I say that, what goes to your mind? That we're all playing a little bit hurt. Yes, I think the word that stuck out to me more was perfection. I'm not, I never claimed to be. I'm certainly not this perfect wife that I've been portrayed to be. And I think that, as human beings, we're deeply flawed. And there's something very beautiful in that, and there's something exceptional in that because it gives us our character and our abilities and our capacity for growth. And my capacity for growth is endless. When you look at yourself in the mirror today, what do you see and who do you see? I see a free woman who is now vibrant and healthier than I've ever been and ready, ready. You really do. Thank you. Yeah. Was there a time in your life where you felt unseen and unheard and please describe that because you're gonna be helping people right now? Because there's a lot of people that feel like they've lost their voice. And I say this, that when little kids are happy, there's a shout. And sometimes life could knock the shout out of you. So talk to me about a time in your life where you felt unheard and unseen. I was miserable in my marriage. I was miserable. You know, I was trying to fit myself to be into something that I could not fit into. There was an unobtainable goal and that was to have love and deep connection. And I would get these little breadcrumbs every once in a while that would keep me there. But it was just unobtainable. It was always unobtainable. Yeah. And I was never, you know, I mean, you see me now. I have no bangs and I look very different. I look grown and I look healthy and I look vibrant. And I'm able to be very expressive and open with you. And I didn't have that then. I was very shut down and I was very controlled and very much fitting inside something that was really realistically not me. Yes. Talk to me about being bitter. Was there a time in your life where you were bitter about what's been happening to you, even in the media? Resentful, angry, wanting to get back. A lot of people I work with, they wanna retaliate. Did you ever go through that? And if so, what did it feel like? No, I think when you've been touched so deeply by malevolence and retaliation, some people, you know, they wanna up their game, you know, I'm not one of them. I'm really not. You really don't have that in you. No. And in fact, something that we talk about quite a lot in my therapy is I'm oftentimes inauthentically cheery. And, you know, that's trying to come through being deeply defended and learning to become more authentic. That's something I've been my entire life. And I feel like sometimes it's authentic, other times, pardon me, it's highly defended and it's inauthentic, but I've always had this happy, go lucky, cheery, look on the bright side kind of thing, so that's not in me. I'm not capable of that. That's not something that I even like to participate in ever. I want you to think about this statement. An offense will put you on the defense. So, like, let's say if somebody says, do you know that Tim's story is showing up tonight and you're not gonna really like him. He's really full of himself and let's say somebody believes that. So I walk in and I could feel like somebody's being a little cold towards me. If I'm not careful, the offense will put me on the defense. So being that so many people have been leery of you at times, do you ever feel like that offense of them challenging you has put you on the defense? No. Well, I mean, you're interviewing me now. Do you feel that way? No. I always remain very curious. I'm a very curious person and a very open person and I do also think that that's something that gets me in trouble oftentimes, you know? Most particularly with James. When I started understanding his proclivities, right? When I started understanding that we were not a good match and seeing where we didn't match, I was still very open. I wasn't shaming him. I was curious about him and I think sometimes that gets me in trouble because I'm a little too open and a little too understanding. And now I'm getting a deeper understanding on where to have my own boundaries and where to say stop and where to say no instead of being too gracious and too appeasable and too nice. Okay, I'm gonna take you to a dark place, but I want, I'm gonna try to get an answer from you that I've not heard before. Okay. Okay? So when you are abducted, you are taken, you are chained. When you're in that moment, what went through your mind that helped you want to even stay alive? My children, Tyler and Violet. The thought of seeing them, raising them, being around them, holding them, tell me. Every second of every moment was just don't give up, don't give up because if you can make it through this next 30 seconds, then it's 30 seconds closer to them. And if you can make it through this next minute, it's one more minute closer to them. It's not giving up and giving in and staying alive. If you could just stay alive, you have another chance to get home, you have another chance to see both of your children and look them in the eyes again. When you've been kidnapped, which I never have been, 24 hours, how does that time go? Slower than you could possibly imagine. Well, I mean, when you think about the conveniences that we have today, you can look at a clock. Even when we were talking earlier, you said, can you check the time for me? Yes. Imagine if you didn't have that luxury. Time would move very differently for you. So in captivity, there was no wall clocks, there was no way to have any indication and occasionally I would get so disoriented that I had no idea whether it was morning or it was night or having boards on the windows and being in a dark space. It's incredibly disorienting and when you are not grounded, when you are not oriented, it's crazy making. Yeah. I mean, you start to lose your mind. It's why our incarceration system doesn't do solitary confinement in the way that it used to. I think it's important to note that you have a faith background. We talked about the Catholic church that you love to go to now. It's a smaller one. You have a connection to God. You've had that connection to God since you were little. When you were in tough times, which has been for a very long time now, can you give me one little feeling or connection with God that you feel like God reassured you or gave you hope or told you you're gonna be okay? Could have been a Bible verse, could have been an affirmation. Could have been something that somebody sent you, a poem. Give me a time that you feel like God, as your father spoke to you and told you, Sherry, you're gonna be okay. There's so many moments. I feel like that happens to me so much. I've had so many God shots in my life. Some people call it luck, I call it God shots. I've been given so many doors that have been opened for me. So many opportunities. I've been given so many doors that have been opened for me. So many opportunities, so many near-death experiences. This new piece that I see on you, I think if somebody didn't really connect with you the way I've been able to talk to you, they would wonder, is this lady just not getting it? Or is she really that peaceful? Because meaning there's a storm still swirling, right? Right? You're right now in some of the biggest magazines, publications, TV shows, all the things that have been said about you are going to be said about you. But yet, when we have our conversations, there's like a piece in there that because I've been working with people like this for so long, I'm like, this is really interesting that she stepped into this. When did this happen to you? When did you start to get this kind of peace? After I was arrested, and after I was released from jail, I was on pretrial services, and I moved in with my sister-in-law, Suzanne. And it was like the first exhale. And it was the first opportunity to relax a little bit. And Suzanne is, as you know, a therapist, but she also is deeply rooted in healing. She does sound healings, and she is opening her own church, and she does so much body work and Reiki and energy, and yoga and meditation, and I had this deep saturation of healing when I moved into her house. And she gave me the opportunity for safety. And it was extraordinary. And I will forever be grateful for that. That was really an exceptional experience, and really started my healing and started to, I started to see what life could be like away from him. Because for so long, I believed, and he really had me believing that I was worthless, and I was incapable, and I was ugly, and I wasn't intelligent, and all of these things. And if I left him, he said I would end up living under a bridge. And it was like the, maybe on the second week that I was with Suzanne's, I realized she's pulling up in the driveway, and I'm really scared. So when you say that about what he said to you, why do you amp up a little bit? Is it, it doesn't seem like anger, it's passion, but when he would say that to you, and now you're saying it back to me, why are you showing me more emotion, and why are you amping up? It is heartbreaking to look back on the woman that I was. It's heartbreaking to see how broken I was, and how broken down I was. That is just, it's devastating. Yes. I got a phone call from a person that I really respect, and said that you wanted to come and see me. And I think that one thing that we're learning from the conversations that we're having already is I'm all about taking responsibility. Is that in order to have a comeback, number one, you have to become awake. Secondly, you have to take inventory, like where is my life really? And then you have to take responsibility. And I've hit you very strong on this taking responsibility side of things. And I will say for all that are watching, you're ready to go back and forth with me. And I give you credit for that. And I even like your scrappy side. To be honest, I'd like to see more of that come out of you in the not so distant future. But why were you excited about talking to me, knowing that this is what I do? I help people turn their setbacks to comebacks and go beyond, but you knew I was gonna go deeper with you. Why were you excited to talk to me about this? I'm not afraid to go deeper. I'm not afraid to look within. And I'm not afraid to take accountability. You know, there's a baptism that happens when you do that. When you're able to be completely authentic and take accountability, there's nothing but forward from there. And you have this exceptional gift. You know, your gift is mending broken pieces and being able to help other people. But also looking at somebody and being able to, looking at somebody, being able to read them pretty well. And then realistically saying to myself, "'Tim, what do you see her really, really going?' I was thinking about that even last night. And where I see you going is helping so many people. Cause life is messy. Life is undone. Life is I don't feel completely together. And we all play hurt. So I'm talking to somebody that you played hurt for how many years your life? 20? 16. Yeah. It's a long time. Very long time. It's a long time. And it's never too late to do the right thing. Yeah. Is it okay to not know exactly what you're gonna do next? Because when I talk to you, it's your priorities are your children. Your priorities are being fair to people. You talk a lot about being fair to people. You don't want to get back at anybody. Even some of your friends that have talked behind your back are in front of your face. But you're okay in the now, but you realized that something special is around the corner. I hope you do know that, right? Yeah. Thank you. Do you feel that though? Yeah. I think when I realized that I wasn't alone, especially in prison, there were so many women that had similar circumstances to mine. Yeah. And I really felt like I was the only one. Okay. So I have a running question for you. Mm-hmm. Because you said for a while you stopped running because you're a runner. Mm-hmm. Okay? In running, sometimes you're running, and it's almost like you break into a certain realm where you're just on autopilot and it doesn't even feel like you're having to press your legs. They're just like running with you and you're in this flow state. Mm-hmm. Are you starting to get there in life where you're starting to feel like you're in a flow state? Yeah. And you're not pushing? Yeah. And what's that feel like? It's so empowering. You know, I still feel like there's room to push even more. You know, there's, I'm undone. Yeah. Still. But yeah, I have an enthusiasm for life. But you're hitting that place in your running stride. Yeah. Yeah, I feel that. Feels good? Absolutely. I'm free. Okay. That feels amazing. How do you want us to greet you if we see you at a restaurant? If we saw you shopping with your kids, how would you like people to greet Sherry? Just a mom. I'm just a person, you know? You're not a whole thing we read about. You're not all the rumors we heard. No. Your person has had the guts to go. And I know for a fact, you've gone through some very difficult therapists that are not easy. They've worked with you strong, right? They've challenged you. You've challenged yourself. You've done the work and you continue to do the work. So when you're greeted by other people, you just want to be greeted with respect. You want to, you honor them, they honor you. I mean, curiosity more. I think a lot of people get stuck in the ignorance of things. And it's deeply sad when we put our blinders on because we miss so much. And so curiosity really, I mean, I'm a really warm person. I'm really incredibly warm and open and engaging. All right, so I'm gonna ask you a question and let's see where we can go with this. Somewhere over the rainbow is one of my favorite songs. Okay? Mm-hmm. It's a great song. Mm-hmm. They did it in the Wizard of Oz, Judy Garland. It's all about dreams. For you, going forward, do you believe your dreams will still come true? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course, why? Why not? Why not? Thank you for sharing space with me on this episode of Miracle Mentality with Tim Story. If today sparked your courage or helped you understand why you're created for success, I invite you to carry that Miracle Mentality forward. Visit me at timstory.com, that story with an E-Y on the end. Until next time, walk by faith, embrace possibility, and create your own comeback story.