From NPR Music, this is Alt Latino. I'm Felix Contreras. And I'm Ana Maria Sayre. Let the chiswe begin. Okay, Ana, on February 21st, the music world lost one of the original architects of the earliest days of salsa, legendary salsa musician and pioneer Willie Colon. In the late 1960s and through the 70s, the trombonist, bandleader, composer, producer played a pivotal role in transforming Afro-Caribbean dance music into what became known around the world as salsa. And Felix, music released on what was at the time the small independent upstart label Fania Records was the source of that music revolution. Vocalists, instrumentalists, composers, producers, even the sound engineers and the people who designed the album covers, Felix, created an aesthetic that has influenced we can't even name how many musicians today. So what we're going to do is look back at those early days of Fania and Willie Colon's earliest and most influential recordings with a very special guide. Okay, people, let's go. Ready? Trombonist Papo Vasquez is joining us this week. Papo was not only inspired to play the trombone by Willie Colon, but he also played on some of the albums that old-school salsa fans considered must-haves. Papo's main inspiration to become a musician was when he saw Willie Colon and Hector Lavoe in the basement of his local church in the 1970s. And we gave him the unenviable task of picking five songs to reflect his memories of Willie Colon. and he brought in albums from 1968 to 1972. I decided to choose stuff that I grew up listening to, what influenced me to become a trombone player. To me, the core sound of Willie was that early band. Instead of me choosing the stuff that I recorded on by 1976 or 77, I was part of that generation. But to me, first edition of Willie Colon with Hector Labo was what made them, what made them. Papo, you brought in a lot of music. Let's hear the first. The first track that I chose was Guisando. This is his earliest recordings of Willie Colon. Let's hear a little bit of the music and then hear a little bit more about your bio and where you come from. All right, let's hear the track. and they found money, they found a ratonera that he was guisando. They found a ratonera that will come after. Vicente no escarmentaba and continued robando and robando, but the police said that Vicente was voilando. Dicen que en la 110 y la esquina le existó. Allí estaba el escondido, adentro de un zapato, ¡Ay, qué guiso! Te agarraron. Sigue guisando, que va muy bien. Hoy te cogió la policía y mañana el juez. Sigue guisando. Okay, watching you through Zoom, you have this huge smile on your face, man. Yeah, that, that, it's hard listening to that. What is that, man? It's taking me back, it's taking me back when I was a little kid, when I first heard that, I was like, wow. Now that I'm like, I'm 68 years old, I hear that, and I go like, man, that music was hot. It's still hot. It's still hot. Yeah, man. And then I get a little emotional because it's taking me back to when I was a young man in Philly. Because my father used to have a record shop. I used to open the records and listen to them. And if I liked them, I would take them upstairs and hide them underneath my bed. I was stealing the records. You hear a record, that's one thing. But when you see what's on the record being done in person, you go like, that blew my mind. You know, when I saw it live, you saw it live. I'm like 11 years old, either I snuck into the church dance, or I was there with my family, and they were in the basement, you know. And I'm like looking onto the stage, and all of a sudden it's Willie Cologne. You know, when Finding Out Records signed Willie Colon, he was 15 years old. He had to get permission from his mom. That's crazy. Wow. His grandmother bought him a trumpet, but he says that he lived in such a rough neighborhood that they stole this trumpet like twice. I guess he had bought one or two trumpets and they stole them. So he said he would have bought a trombone so they wouldn't steal it. It's just crazy. But that reflects the environment that he was coming from, you know, the street, you know, like, you know, you got to be ready to fight and stuff, you know, whatever, you know. He was a young kid, come from a rough neighborhood. I mean, that's what I was going to say, Papo, is that track you just played. It's light, rhythmically, it's danceable, but it's kind of heavy thematically. The early days were heavy thematically. Exactly. If you listen to the lyrics, the composition is titled, Está Guisando, Guisando, Guisando. You're robbing, you're stealing. That's what the song is about. A lot of those tools were about, I guess, his experience in the streets and stuff, you know? Which is funny because with time, right, with the passage of time and the genre salsa, it became, I think, associated with very different things. I don think people as familiar that in the early days salsa was musica del barrio And Willie was part of that Willie Colon impact for the Latino community was especially important to the younger generations. It was different than the music our parents were listening to, hipper and more relevant with young aspiring musicians like me. That seemed to be the take not just of Willie Colon, but a lot of the musicians that were playing, because you guys grew up with a certain tradition, but they were creating something brand new, man. Exactly. I've always been extremely grateful to Willie because at the age of 20, I'm in New York recording with the guys that were my heroes. Let's go to another track. What else did you bring? The next thing I chose, Cheche Colet. That was recorded in 1969. We all know you're dancing, in the style of African. If you don't know how to dance, I'll teach you, brother. A ti te gusta la bomba y te gusta el baquiné, para que goces ahora. Africano es el bebé, cheche co-lay, qué bueno es, cheche co-pisa, muerto en la risa, co-pisa langa. Ahí viene la malanga, caca chilanga, viene de catanga, a dere, a dere tu lo es, cheche co-lay, qué bueno es, cheche co-pisa, muerto en la risa, co-pisa langa, co-pisa langa, caca chilanga. There's something really striking to me about how comparing to a lot of what you hear today, like the production, it's so simple, but it's so cutting. Like those horns, when they come in, you cannot dance. And then Maria, you just brought to mind something that I was thinking about when I was taking a shower. I said, you know, I think I know what was the secret to Willie Colón's thing. it was organic. It was organic. And plus, those days back then, you know, when we used to record back in the 70s, everybody was in the studio. The horns, the piano, the bass, and the percussion. We were all recording live. So it was like, if somebody would mess up, you have to record the song again. Who messed up? Felix? Of course it was Felix. It's always Felix. don't call Felix again please so talk a little bit about the role of the trombone in the music at that time because when we talk about the history of the music we talk about conjuntos the 40s and 50s mostly trumpet you know the coming out of Cuba and Puerto Rico mostly trumpet the brass but at some point the trombone became the main thing, the front line I don't know if that was Eddie Palmeri La Perfecta in 1961 1961 it just became such a standard part even going beyond what you did, what Willie did what Emmanuel Kindle was Libre, all of these famous trombone players, you guys were almost as popular as the singers sometimes Yes, Eddie Palmeri, more Rivera and I think Joe Cotto I think, Joe Cotto. Their front lines were trombone, you know, and Barry Rogers, Jose Rodriguez, those guys, they influenced Willie. So what happened? Willie Colon comes on the scene with this really organic sound, as you described it. I mean, what shifted? What was the change? Was it immediate? Well, Eddie Palmieri was already out there, and they were like the killer bands. Now Willie comes out, they were like the kids. All of a sudden, all these kids become more popular than everybody else. Wow. You know, because this band was like, to me, was like, from here, everything else was created. And it almost sounds like when I listened to those early recordings, his tone, it stands out in a way that it's a lead vocal, in a way. Because it wasn't part of a large ensemble if you listen to big bands. Like if you listen to Machito or Puente or somebody, the trombones are part of an ensemble. It's like out front, like right in your face. and I'll tell you something man that's a tough job there two trombones in the front and I guess I would credit Willie's sound and his tone is because I think he was self-taught if he's being at the age of 15 he's a little genius little kid that just picked up the trombone I think he said it, he figured that out himself it's amazing, you gotta like wow I want to hear some more music, what's your next track? The next track is one of my favorites. It's called Piranha, and it's from the recording called El Juicio. This is from 1972, La Piranha. Nada fue la distancia con mi loca esperanza De volverte a ver otra vez mujer Y palabra que sí Look how I found you, turned into a male man I don need to know why you call me Pira You will tell me you want me you die for me One and another time So much to talk about but I got to point out the beginning of the song is a reference to the trombone part The horn part is beginning to Caravan, which was composed by Juan Tizol, who was from Puerto Rico and who played with Duke Ellington for many, many years. But I had recently done a performance with an orchestra here in D.C. I was playing conga and they had me come out and play Caravan. It was for Acceleration, Duke Ellington. And I did some research on that song. and the rhythm, the original rhythm, I think it was like in 1932. It was really early. And it sounds like a reference to Bomba, but not exactly Bomba, even back then. So the caravan rhythm comes from the island. I got to go back and check it out. Check out what my throat, what this song wrote, or Duke Ellington. What I've always found funny about that composition was that when I was young, I didn't know what Caravan was. Then years later, I was like, oh, man, that's Caravan. It's one of those instances where a jazz composition or a tune that was made popular in jazz moved over into the Latin world because so many people have done that tune in Afro-Caribbean style. Or how Willie was conscious of his culture. I guess Willie was conscious that Juan Tizobo was Puerto Rican and he's going to give him a little tribute there, you know what I mean? That's him being conscious of all of his cultures, right? Like all parts of Willie Colon are present that he's doing in this Afro-Curban styling and yet pulling from Duke Ellington. I mean, that could only happen in New York in a way, no? Exactly. So he's being influenced by all kinds of different cultures and musics, you know? in New York City, where it's the center of the universe. I think it's time for a break, Felix. I think we need to take a break. All right, let's do it. And we're back. Let's hear some more music, man. What else you got? The next composition I chose was Calle Luna, Calle Sol. Thank you. sun we Today厚 Talk a little bit about your time with him. What was he like to work with? What was that time, that period of time like? You know, he was always quiet. Willie was always very nice. I even remember one time, he mentioned to me one time, we should get together and practice and stuff. He was always very nice to me. And very dedicated to the music and just seemed to be full of ideas. Yeah, you know, by the time that I came on the scene to work with him, He was producing stuff. He was into his producing stage of his career at the beginning of that. I do want to take a detour from your playlist to play something that you recorded on, the album Siembra. It was in 1978, which for writers, critics, fans, it's like a high watermark of salsa in terms of the lyrics, in terms of the musicality, and the presentation of what was going on in New York at the time. before we played the track, what was it like? Do you remember doing that session? And do you remember, like, this is the environment. Did you guys realize you guys were creating something that was going to stand the test of time? Well, in my case, you've got to understand that I was the little kid in the room. So I'm just like, trying to be as quiet as I can and just trying to make sure that I don't mess up my part, like I told you before. Those recordings were being done live, you know? So if you were to mess up a part, you were not going to be called back on the next recording but I was always the youngest guy and they were like okay sit down kid here's your part pray to God that you don't mess up the music I was doing some research because you mentioned you had a birthday the other day happy birthday by the way oh thank you so much but you and I were born the same year in 1958 so when you're recording this record you're 20 years old bro I was 20 years old And actually, years later, four or five years ago, Willie contacted me about giving some kind of interview about that recording. And I told him, listen, to me, I was extremely grateful that I was given the opportunity to be around some of my heroes and mentors I was always the guy that was always asking a lot of questions Like yo no me pregunte m Stop asking so many questions I was always asking everybody something You go sit down and play a trombone, you know. But because I dropped out of high school to come to New York. That's how much, and that's how good, I guess, my music program was. It prepared me to play with these guys already. I was already, I would, you know, of course, years later, I got my GED and I did some college and stuff. But I always say that New York City, they finished raising me. Let's hear a little bit of the track Pedro Navaja, because it starts with this long percussion-driven narration, but I've always really enjoyed the part where the horns come in, man. The hands always in the bags of his gaban For that they don't know in which one of them he has the gun Use a high-duty shirt of middle-hand And shoes for if there are problems, they will be volado Lentes dark for that they don't know what he's looking at And a gold star that when she's laughing, like a three square foot of that corner, a woman, goes across the whole acerine for the fifth time. And in a water, she gives a drink to forget that the day is empty and no clients to work. The one thing I noticed about this track is that there's a certain level of sophistication in the arrangements by now. Yes, exactly. Even at the beginning, the orchestration of the horns, the trombones, it's a stark difference to what was the first recordings that we've been playing. Right, and if you listen closely, you'll notice that instead of two trombones, it's three trombones. So now the texture of the harmonies is a little richer. And this record also reflects the moment when the salsa and Afro-Caribbean music was looking within the community like, okay, these things are happening. These things need to be better. It was like social commentary stuff. The siembra is known because of Ruben Blades' lyrics and the way Willie Colon orchestrated all the music around his songwriting. Right, well, you know, you could tell the difference between this and the other band with Hector Lavoe. And I think Hector Lavoe also had a lot to do with the compositions that they were recording, too, you know? It's a different sound. It's a different sound. We could do this for hours, obviously, because you've got great stories and the music is amazing. Let's finish off with the last track that you brought in. The last track, well, you know, it says it all, you know, Todo Tiene Su Final. Solo quiso florecer Y enseñarnos tu belleza Y marchito perecer Todo tiene su final Nada dura para siempre Tenemos que recordar That there is no eternity Like the world champion He took his life to come And lost what most loved In the masses of our hearts It's a very appropriate song to end on, Fafo. Before we let you go, do you have any last thoughts, any last words that you want to say about how Willie Colon's music influenced you in your career? I live extremely grateful for walking into that church, St. Edward's, in 1972, 71. I don't remember exactly when I saw that octet, because they were octet. That opened up the whole world to me, you know? Extremely grateful to Licka Long for influencing me to become a trombone player. Papo Vasquez, thank you so much, man, for coming on and sharing this music in your memories. We really appreciate it, brother. Corazon, gracias. You got it, brother. Bye, Ana Mariana. Bye, Papo. You have been listening to Alt Latino for NPR Music. Our audio producer is Noah Caldwell. The executive producer of NPR Music is Soraya Muhammad. Executive director of NPR Music is Sonali Mehta. I'm Felix Contreras. And I'm Ana Maria Sayer. Thank you for listening. Bye.
