Welcome, everyone. My guest today for this sponsored episode is Joe Weilu, CEO and founder of Total Expert, to talk about how they're deploying AI to help lenders interact with borrowers at a really personal level that wouldn't have been possible even a year ago. I'm excited to get started. So Joe, welcome to the podcast. Hey, good to see you, Sarah. Great to have you on. You guys are always doing really interesting things. So of course, we, HousingWire talked to you not too long ago, but I'm excited to have you on HousingWire Daily. And of course, we're looking forward to next week having you at the gathering. You are hosting the Pickleball Social. You've got a lot of stuff going on. Yeah. HousingWire Gathering's coming up. It's an amazing event. Really, it's whole team's looking forward to it. A lot of customers are looking forward to it. We can't wait. See you guys in Austin soon. So, you know, I'm talking to executives all the time about AI, about AI assistance, about how they can utilize those to really make things better. Would love to get your perspective on this, on what Total Expert is doing to really help lenders specifically with AI and make it make sense in a way that's not just the most basic thing, but what the real value there. So would love to, what are you guys doing right now? Well, first of all, the innovation this past six to 12 months has been nothing short of extraordinary in general with AI. And our part of that innovation is taking the technologies, these breakthrough technologies, and then adopting them and building those capabilities into our platform so our customers can leverage them in their businesses. And so we've been really aggressively going after that this past year. And the results that we've been able to get with our customers have been really like nothing we've ever seen. And so to get you up to speed a little bit, we started the year about a year ago, a little more than a year ago, about 14 months ago, we launched our AI sales assistant. And the premise of that was lending and serving the end consumer has always been dependent on a loan officer or somebody in the sales capacity being able to follow up and remember everything that's going on with their day. And so the result would oftentimes be they would forget to call people back or wouldn't have the memory in the context of the time they talked to that particular consumer a month or six months ago. And so if you think about how do you take what a loan officer, a highly trained professional salesperson in lending, take what they're the best at, and then amplify their potential with AI, that's what the sales assistant area, sales assistant is really doing. I'll give you some examples. So if you think about a top producing originator, we're an organization that would ideally like to stay really deeply connected to their customers, that customer for life journey that everybody has been in pursuit of for many years. The dependency oftentimes is just time and human horsepower to go and reach out and engage with every one of those consumers. And so if you think about the ability to reach out and have a very high quality conversation with every one of your past customers a couple of times a year, keep them informed of what's going on in the market, educate them what rates are doing. Hey, by the way, is there any payment savings happening? So we're able to do those conversations at a massive scale. And so right now we're on pace to do close to 150 million calls this year on behalf of our customers. All of those calls are really those individual AI agents that our lenders are building with us, are very unique and personalized to their brands. And the magic that has evolved this year has been our ability to enhance our customer IQ, which is really all the customer intelligence that we have for our customers. It's take that customer IQ and connect it to the AI sales assistant. And the outcome of that is you end up having an assistant, human-like assistant, that has perfect memory, perfect recollection of every conversation, perfect context about that individual consumer's exact specific things that are about their loan, their interest rate, their balance. Or if it's a lead, as an example, somebody that hasn't transacted yet, and maybe they talked to them six months ago and said, well, we're not ready yet. We're just kind of looking. We're educating. Great. The AI sales assistant can ingest that. If he uses it back into customer IQ, customer IQ will then action on that and set them on an automation, a follow-up automation to then reach out and have conversations. And in that precise moment where it's going to make a difference. And so those capabilities, customer IQ and these agentic AI agents, aka our sales assistant, is really unlock these breakthroughs that it's the most fun we've ever had in the 10 plus years I've been running the company. So I think one of the things that's intriguing to me is that you talk a lot about how customer IQ adds context. And I guess that's what's interesting to me about like, it's not just some call like, hey, this is, you know, we're checking in. So from your perspective, what is the context specifically? And how are they getting that context? Yeah, so context, customer IQ, if you think about historical CRMs are a place where you can put data, right? So if you think about the ability to take that, just that concept only really take it to a level that no one's ever been able to do before, as far as making that contact record really enriched with most important data elements, the most important data attributes that matter for homeownership and lending. So I'll give you an example. We can bring in servicing data. We bring in real-time product and pricing data so that we can triangulate that against their current mortgage they have and say, is there a payment savings there? And so what ends up happening is context is really about what matters most to that end consumer in this particular case. And context is really the way that you end up being able to do very deep personalization and having a conversation that ultimately adds value to that consumer. And the result often is the consumer feels, they feel like the brand really knows them. So if you go on many of these experiences, if you think about the consumer internet and the consumer apps that are out there that everybody loves, you know, whether in any of those shopping sites that really understand your preferences and understand what important to you and what ends up happening when we go to those sites you end up having sort of your favorite experiences with brands that you do business with. Well, it's oftentimes because they understand your preferences and they're only showing you things that you care about. They're only talking to you, in a sense, about things that you care about. Well, if you think about lending, these are high value transactions and the industry as a whole has all these disparate data things. And customer IQ really has been able to aggregate a lot of that and unlock the potential of it in ways that we just haven't seen in the industry. The unlock has been the aggregation of all of those insights and then making that accessible to things like the AI agents, our journey orchestration. And what ends up happening is you have things that are, you have these conversations happening with your end consumer, with an AI agent that feel like this AI agent knows everything about their certain financial situation and what's important to them, what stage in life they're at a lot of times. So anything that was, I'll give you an example. Let's say we listened to thousands of calls alongside our customers to help improve their individual AI agents. And anything that's set on that conversation around, hey, yeah, I'm going to be helping my daughter buy a house or we're looking to find a way to retire and downsize, which maybe would lead to a reverse mortgage conversation, right? So all of that conversation also comes back, goes into customer IQ, and then fuels the next conversation or the next actions. So you end up just with this perpetual enriched record of every customer, every lead, and so that all of your next actions are things that are going to have the most impact. So say they're having that conversation, the agent is, when do they bring in a human from the lender? When does the LO get alerted or what's the turner point there? So our philosophy has been, it depends is the answer. And it depends on the lenders that we work with. We work some of the biggest brands. We work with small brands too, but brands that are really forward thinking tend to partner with us. And we work alongside them to craft what's what their vision and their brand and how they want to have that connectivity. So they have a lot of control. Our philosophy is not to just take this off the shelf AI, which is a lot of the industry that maybe doesn't work with us, or maybe they've tried other technologies that are for horizontal applications, meaning they don't go really deep in lending. You end up with these very surface level things and it's sort of vanilla. It's not high value. And what we do is allow the lenders, our customers and the banks, the lenders to go really deep into the details on how they want that conversation to flow. So I'll give you an example. If the consumer starts to hesitate and maybe doesn't feel like the conversation is flowing, the AI actually understands that. It can sense that that sort of the conversation is going the direction they want it to. And at that moment, they can offer, say, you know, would you like to talk to one of our licensed originators can probably go a little deeper with you, answer more of your questions. AI understands that it can actually at that moment, if the loan officer happens to be available, we can live transfer that customer, bring the two on the phone, AI will hand that off to the licensed loan officer and a warm transfer. So it can happen that way. And then underneath that umbrella, there's, infinite permutations of when the human gets brought into the loop. But our philosophy in our focus on this innovation is how do you bring the AI and the humans together to really just amplify and magnify what's possible at a scale in a scenario that you've just never been able to imagine before. This is really incredible. If you think about the fact that it can detect like maybe this person isn't as engaged or the conversation is not going well, how many of us could use that in real life. I'm telling you, Sarah, sometimes I think maybe the AI version of Joe, a good friend of mine, Sue Woodard, did a presentation for us and she had AI Sue and we were kind of joking. Sometimes an AI version of us is actually, they have more empathy and the more patience in my case. I would say that would be accurate to say. Just the social skill to be like, oh, this is awkward. Let's get it to a real person. I love that so much. When you look back at the last, since 14 months ago, what do you think has been the biggest change in that time? Because it can now do, like what you just said, that is not something that when we started this journey, anybody, I don't think could do that. So from your perspective, what's the biggest difference? Yeah. So I could really go super deep on this and get way technical and I'll try not to to go down that rabbit hole too much. But so the unlocks have been these different breakthroughs in the underlying infrastructure and technology that's there, right? So the first thing that started happening, what led to these large language models was the underlying chips that, you know, NVIDIA is powering a lot of those that led to these things that were possible with the technology that was possible before. And so sort of every month or two or three, there's been sort of these breakthroughs that are happening in what we call these frontier foundational large language models, which is what the vast majority of the really cool AI technology is built on or around. They're leveraging it in some capacity. And as those breakthroughs have happened, things that were possible yesterday become possible, like that empathy. You really have the ability to, you know, the translation, if you have multi-language, as an example, can go back and forth between English and Spanish or any other language for that matter. We've seen improvements there. We've also seen improvements with things like if you're driving, the customer is driving in their car and there's background noise, right? Understanding and making it lifelike and how you pause and navigate that conversation. And the AI has gotten really amazing at doing that to where early on that tech was the models that were basically taking that conversation and making it real, weren't able to maybe be as precise. And so there's just all of these breakthroughs that continue to happen. And our passion and our partners that we work with to build this technology, our passion is just to continue to stay on the bleeding edge of what's happening and making sure bringing those capabilities and allowing our customers to unlock a ton of value in their business. I think I see a lot of value there in the idea of like partnering with someone like total expert to do this because you are bringing in this larger expertise that you doing And if you don do this right you really just wasting your money because I mean, we've all been on the other end of those phone calls when they're not trained well. And so the difference there is huge. It is. And we have, we started our journey on this technology from a compliance standpoint. First, my first call was to my dear friend, Mitch Keiter of Wiener Brodsky and said, hey, we're exploring this technology. What are all the things from a compliance standpoint that we need to be thoughtful about and we need to really build in to the solution before we even start going to market? So similar to how we started the first part of the company, we started from the compliance standpoint, understanding that we sell at an enterprise level only, which is a little bit unique in lending. And the large organizations have to have a deep level of trust in us that we're going to be able to have the guardrails and the protections in place to manage do not calls the correct way to make sure we have the right consent, right? Sort of another getting back to our customer IQ solution. When you think about context, it also knows is there consent to call this person with voice AI? Do we have that or not? Or if they're on the phone and there's maybe another type of consent or permission that we need to talk to that customer, depending on the product set that a particular lender has in their organization, it understands to go and get that, hey, we'd like the permission to text you as well as an example. And so it has the ability to always get those compliance boxes checked. Well, I think that's interesting. Also, to the point of working with someone at that enterprise level, it's hard to overstate. So So we have a proprietary GPT that we're always working with within HousingWire. How fast things change and the capabilities that they change is hard to... It's hard to overstate. It's hard to overstate. What it could do two weeks ago is different than what it can do now. But in that, the compliance part. So it can do more, should it do more? Can it do more and still stay compliant? So I feel like that's probably a really big part of this. It is. And I think also it's important to acknowledge, right, I mean, homeownership in America, something that both our organizations are very passionate about, that homeownership journey is unlocked by both banks and lenders, or both banks and independent mortgage banks and credit unions. And if you think about those specific individual organizations, they all have a different pace at which they're willing to or want to adopt these varying technologies. And if you think about a bank that maybe says, you know, we have some very large banks that we are deep in process with, they want to maybe start much more tightly controlled and much more narrow in their use cases than an independent mortgage bank may. And so you have to be able to give them immense flexibility, these organizations, and what they're comfortable with, their pace of adoption. You know, another, I would say, important component of this innovation cycle that we're on is understanding that there is the change management element inside these companies when you roll out these capabilities, right? We've rolled this out now to many thousands of retail originators. And as you can imagine, there's really an important element of educating them on how this integrates with their day to day. The fact that it's there to amplify their potential, allow them to really spend time doing what gives them energy and what they love, which a lot of times isn't setting in a CRM calling a lead list. They'd like to actually, you know, I had these conversations, it's been so fun to unlock these things. You're like, you know, I, my guess is you and maybe even your team doesn't necessarily want to sit in front of a screen and click through leads and call those leads and then get hung up on all the time. And they're like, yeah. So how about we have an AI sales assistant go through that database for you, those leads, and then just let you know when somebody is ready to talk and needs advice. And it's like, yeah, that'd be amazing, right? If I could just come to my office and I had this magical, brilliant assistant that was traversing my database and then just bringing me the people in the moments that mattered when they were ready for advice about home ownership. Again, would love to have that just in my everyday life with the, you know, can you cut through all the stuff I don't like? I think the other thing that strikes me here, And we saw this from the very beginning when we started having these kind of large language models help out people and be like, just like if lenders were talking to someone and then there would be like, here are some of the products that they might be ready for. And I feel like that's what we see right now with the people who are really the lenders who are really, if you want to call winning or growing market share in this environment are the ones who can think outside the box and not just be like, oh, you're this, you're that. And you mentioned reverse earlier. I feel like reverse is so underutilized. And especially if you think about that second level down of that proprietary or the 55 plus or the HECM for 55 or whatever you want to say, like there's a lot of stuff out there, the home equity products that I feel like it could surface things that maybe that loan officer is not thinking about. So home equity is a big one, right? And if you think about our IMB friends or independent mortgage bank friends, right, that many of which are, I would say, have become dear friends over the years. And we've had just the privilege of partnering with those organizations as they've evolved. And so many of them have now been able to completely reimagine their business around, okay, what do I want? What can my retail loan officer do? And what do I want them doing? And as an example, home equity historically is not a product that a loan officer is going to take the time to maybe navigate with the consumer. And so now I'm getting to the scenario where with AI agents and some of the technology that's out there, I can almost have it be a fully autonomous experience for my end consumer. I keep the loan officer informed, but it's more about, oh, hey, by the way, your consumer customer IQ that we have surfaced a need for one of your customers. They have $55,000 in revolving debt at 27% interest. And the AI assistant reached out to them on your behalf and said hey by the way we can consolidate that high interest debt give you a home equity line of credit and pay those off and improve your cash flow What do you think Take that information send them an online link to that application. And some of the capabilities that now exist make that almost in some cases, fully autonomous and seamless experience. And so the loan officer gets their customer retained, their brand is in front of it, and they still get paid, right? So they get a little bit of mailbox money, which is what none of them complain about that. And then what ends up happening is the relationship with the independent mortgage bank becomes deeper and more connected to that consumer because now I have multiple products that I have been able to deliver. I don't just have this transactional relationship to where it's, hey, the next time I go buy a house, I call it lender. It's a way they helped me unlock some of that wealth that I have there in my home and use it wisely. And that changes the dynamic. Absolutely. I mean, we know that that recapture rate historically has just been terrible. And in some ways, we're so hard on lenders about this, but in other ways, I understand because they've got to be out there getting the next loan, right? It's a volume business. It's also not something people do all the time, buy a house or of course, they have life experiences that change. But I do understand why still the recapture rate is still not great. And now I feel like they're now competing with a lot of other people to recapture their own clients. They are. And historically, though, I believe it's been the potential and the ability for a lender to now truly have a customer for life. We've hit a level now or a possibility of that happening that we just haven't had before. And the reason is the bar to getting there before was I know that in spite of their best intentions, if I'm a retail organization, as an example, and I've got my loan officers doing what they're the best at, which is they're out in the marketplace, they're educating realtors, they're educating consumers, they're in the community, they're not necessarily going to be in the lead screen and really nailing every moment that comes up in a refi cycle. They're not going to necessarily be as precise, even if their best intentions are there. So what's the alternative? The alternative has been, and the only thing that's worked is standing up massive call centers with tons of people, a lot of expense, and just throw sheer human horsepower at those past customers. And that has worked largely to a better extent anyway than anybody that doesn't do it that way. Well, only a tiny amount of organizations have the capital structure and the expense structure. It doesn't even make sense in those cases, but they have the ability to do that. Well, now what Voice AI has done is it democratized. And customer IQ with voice AI gives the average lender or even the big, robust, sophisticated lender that doesn't want to manage that complexity and doesn't want to manage that cost structure to say, you know, why can't we have 100% retention of our customers? Why not? And I mean, 100% is obviously nobody's ever achieved that. But I believe in thinking big and aiming high, right? So you can double if you're an average IMB. We've seen IMBs that are like, yeah, we're pretty good. We've seen them double, double, right? Which is incredible. That is incredible. You know, you mentioned the timing of this and when they see something to bring it forward. I feel like in this environment, now we are in a less volatile environment mortgage rate wise than we have been in the past couple of years. But still, like I think about that, was it a Friday where we got down to 5.99% just for like a couple hours, you know? And anytime something like that happens or things shift, you want to be the ones who are there because, like I said, other people are there with their offers. So you got to be there. And that's where customer IQ and voice AI agents coming together has just been the thing that we have really just given more resources to in our organization, more investment care to than anything else we've ever done because we see and have been able to see the impact that it can have to our customers, which is what drives us, right? customer obsession is one of our core values. And for us, when we can help our customers win at that level, we just get incredibly fulfilled and excited as an organization. And that looks different. Some of the organization, they build certain things internally and they partner with us on other things. And those situations we welcome. And yeah, it's been a lot of fun. It's fun hearing about it. So I can only imagine it's fun being in it. Anything else when you look at the rest of 2026, anything else that you're super excited about? You know, I am just energized and excited. I'm on the road a lot, meeting with the C-suite and strategy teams, executive teams, and our customers, all shapes and sizes. And the focus has just been moving very quickly. Speed matters more than it ever has before. And I am just continuing to be excited and energized every day about this reimagining of our industry that's now possible and ultimately a better version, I think, of our industry that ends up emerging where we can be elevating our people to their highest and best use, making their jobs more fulfilling to them, and then ultimately ending up delivering a much better outcome, consistent outcomes to the end consumers. And so it's win-win across the board. It's going to be fun just to see where we are in six months. Six months come back. Love to. And we're going to talk more. About the evolution. And of course, in between here and there, you're going to be talking about some of these topics on stage at the gathering. You're going to be on there with Ingenious' Jeff Walton and Sue Woodard is going to be, I think, the moderator there. Great. And then again, hosting the Total Expert Pickleball Social Club. Our annual, is this three or four years we've done pickleball? I think it's four. Is it four? I don't know, but you guys have killed it. I'm told I'm playing this year and I'm not a pickleball enthusiast. I like these things. So I'm told I'm playing this year, which will be the first time. So we'll see if that comes true. I've got to go out and practice a little bit this weekend, maybe. Okay, well, that's just incentive for all of us to be there. If you're going to be playing and this isn't what you do every week. As long as manage your expectations. So I'm definitely not going to be one of the top tier performers at the Vickle Ball event. But we'll have fun. It is so much fun, though. I really appreciate your, you know, the way that you partner with us for the gathering and for other things. Love talking to you, Joe. And we will talk again soon. My pleasure, Sarah. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Thanks for listening to Housing Wire Daily. If you haven't already, we'd love for you to take a minute to rate the show and leave a comment. And make sure to tune in tomorrow for more news and insight.
