Ep. 141: Help! I’m Ruining My Kids! (A Gospel Chat with Abbey Wedgeworth)

Hello and welcome to the MS4MOMA podcast. I'm your host, Abby Halberstadt. Happy wife, mom at a 10, Bible-believing Christian. And my guest today on this podcast is going to resonate so much with my primary audience, which is moms of all ages of children and all stages of children. Abby Wedgworth is a friend of mine and such a grounded voice for biblical truth in motherhood. And I think you're going to love this conversation. Before we dive into it, I want to highlight our podcast sponsor, Boatburg Music Academy. VMA is such a fun way to have your kids learn lessons. You can share between siblings and instruments like ukulele, mandolin, fiddle, piano and guitar. And you can use my code MS4MOMA20 for 20% off each month that you're enrolled. And because you can share lessons between siblings, whether it's for an individual or siblings, it's as little as $30 a month. So save yourself the commute and do lessons from your own home with 24-hour access to your instructor. They even have competitions where you can get badges mailed to your door for achieving goals in your lesson learning, which is very motivating for your students. If you want to check out more, you can do so at voteburgmusicacademy.com. Don't forget to use the code MS4MOMA20 at checkout. All right, friends, I have a great conversation for you today with my friend Abby Wedgworth. So Abby and Abby are here on the podcast today. I resonate with so much of what Abby shares. I think it's one of those like if we lived closer, we would absolutely be having for me not coffee. Abby, are you a coffee drinker? Oh, yes, black coffee. If that tells you anything about me. Well, then you are a true coffee drinker because honestly, I don't have a lot of patience for all these people to say they love coffee, but what they really love is 90% cream. Well, and I'm such a anti-coffee person to the point of purity, whatever the right word is, that my kids who are traders and love coffee, I don't know how they didn't get my genes, but they'll be like, mama, it pretty much doesn't have anything. This is just like a slurpee. It's like a coffee slurpee. I can still taste it and I still don't like it. That's a good to each his own. What would you be having Abby? Tea or like a matcha? Chai. Chai latte. Yeah. Okay. I love it. I almost said chai tea latte, but I've had my people that like know that chai is tea and like Hindi or something be like, you're just saying tea, tea, latte. And I was like, okay, yeah, tea, tea latte. Okay. I do feel like one time a tea tea latte. Yes, exactly. I try to avoid that. I do know that one time I went to Starbucks in order to chai latte and I got coffee in my chai. So I try to say the tea part to them. So like for clarity sake. Anyway, we don't need to talk about preferences the whole time. Tell us something about yourself. I know a lot of my readers know who you are, but if they do not introduce yourself to us. Yeah, I am married to David and we live on the South Carolina coastline with three boys. And I'm currently homeschooling them. We're about to switch to a university model. It's like an act of repentance for me, just recognizing my limits. So they'll be there two days and home with me three. And I think that'll be a good thing. But part of the motivation for that is just I now have a career that I didn't need to have, you know, which is a blessing. But I love to write and teach the Bible and to get to speak places. And it's my great joy to get to do that. So I just released some of my books are very small. So this is not like an accurate, I don't know, it sounds in a different way than it is probably. But my 10th book came out this week, which is wild. But some of them are like six pages, you know, their board books. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about this 10th book of yours that just came out this week. Yeah, it was born out of a season of wrestling, especially, I mean, really all of motherhood, but especially since my third son was born. Motherhood is just not what I expected it to be. And I was not the mom that I thought I would be. I think I truly thought I was going to show up pretty sanctified, you know, and instead, I just it was, it really exposed my need for that's changing grace. I saw so many places that I needed to grow. And a lot of places I needed to receive his compassion and care to. But yeah, this this book is the tagline or the subtitle is a gospel guide for the mom who's desperate for change. And I think I see a lot, especially in the the world that I kind of run in ministerially, there's a lot of like sloppy agape, like, you know, just God loves you as you are, you know, grace, grace, grace. And I really wanted moms to have the perspective that the hope of the gospel brings that you can change that the gospel is the power to save. And also, it's changing power to you, like over the course of your life, you look more and more like Jesus. And I see that as a calling of motherhood, to fulfill the creation mandate, to be image bearers to our children, to bear the image of Jesus to the one day Lord willing, when they stand before him, his face looks familiar, because they knew us, you know, and so I wanted to look more like Jesus. And I know other moms do too. And so this book just kind of dives into the complexities of what to do when we see our sin. And also, like how to let go of some things that we think are super important that actually are matters of Christian liberty, you know, like we feel guilty about things we don't need to feel guilty about. So yeah, it's twofold. One, just like addressing guilt and shame. And two, really thinking through how does change actually happen? And how can we pursue that? So how do we parent well, as works in progress, while we make progress toward becoming more like Christ? I love that perspective. And it rings very true to me and sounds very familiar to me, which I will say why in a second, but I wanted to ask you something, which is one, I don't know that you said the the the big title of your book, you said the subtitle. My kids think this is so silly, which I'm so grateful they think it's silly. But the title of the book is help. I'm ruining my kids. You know, it's not silly though. Yeah, it's not silly though, because this is literally like the title of emails that I get. I mean, I'm sure. Yes. And I haven't my DM. Yeah, I haven't met a mom that when I said to her, the title of the book I was working on, didn't either like, say like, Oh, my goodness, I feel that every day, or she started crying and divulging specifics, you know, right? But I even still I wrote the book, Abby, and I still at the end of some days, I'm like, am I ruining them? So it doesn't eradicate the thought, but it teaches me what to do with it, you know, the truths that are contained in this book, which is an important distinction. Because when we take what when we do with Bible tells us to do, which is preach truth to ourself, and truly believe that God's power has given us everything we need for life and godliness, like all of it. That means motherhood, that means exercise, that means meal prep, that means marriage, that means friendship, that means serving at church, that means knowing our limits, that means pushing past those limits sometimes when the Lord requires us to, like it encompasses every category. Then we are able to say these unruly thoughts of mine are getting away from me, Lord. And the Bible tells us no temptation is cease to accept what is common to man and God is faithful and he will provide a way of escape. And one of those ways of escape is filling our mind with so much truth, like what's found in your book, and what's found in God's word, which is the basis of it, that we can then say, I am naming this as a possibility, I might have a negative effect on my child with my behavior. That is a great responsibility. The Bible tells us that teachers will be held more accountable and as parents, we are teachers to our children. And there's a possibility that if I continue in my sin, there's a very distinct and real possibility that if I continue in my sin and chat, that this will have a negative impact on my child. I don't want that. But I also know that there's therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ. And if I know that I'm in Christ and I do, then there is an escape from this, which is to take those thoughts captive and say, it might be true, but I'm going to turn toward Jesus and trust him with a result. I wanted to ask you another question before we dive deeper into that, because I know you have lots to say on this. I'm curious, maybe my theory is completely wrong, but I'm curious what age you had your first child? I was 26. Okay. So not super young, not super old by any stretch. We have a lot of moms that are not having the first kid until early 30s, someone in that range. I remember talking to Emily Marrow from Really Very Crunchy and she said, I wish I'd had kids earlier because I, and I think she had kids at 27 or something that the world would consider really young, but she had been married really young, I think, maybe like 19 or 20. And she said, I had all these years of travel and just me and Jason, and I got so used to my comfort and so used to my convenience and so used to be able and being able to do what I wanted when I wanted, when I wanted children. You said motherhood wasn't what you expected. She said, children turned out to be, she's like, I love my children. They are not an inconvenience to me. However, their behavior inconvenienced me at times. And I didn't know how to deal with that. Do you feel like you had that shift? I think it was less for me about my comfort, Abby. And this is very complex. Like this is not a 3.5 paragraph essay. It's more of a book, you know. Yeah. What you would. I think a lot of it had a lot more to do with my identity. I think it had a lot more to do with thinking I was going to be really good at it, thinking I was going to know what to do, thinking that I would have more emotional fortitude than I did. Maybe even that I was mentally healthier than I was. I think it wasn't so much about my comfort as it was about my performance, maybe. Okay. Like I think I really wanted X plus Y equals Z. Like if I do these things, it's going to yield this result. And then motherhood is not like that. I mean, now schedule is alone. It just really humble you there, you know. So I think it was maybe more about feeling like I was really good at it and running to that as a source of identity that I just really crumbled. And I know you do this in the book, but can you give us like pick one specific example of what that looks like for you? Because I know that's at least for me and my readers and listeners, and I'm sure for yours to man, do they want concrete examples? Like you say this, but that sounds kind of like just this general thing you're supposed to say to make me feel better. Give me an example. I know you have this experience of like living with your in-laws, maybe while you're building, you have two small children, you're potty training, just like really humbling scenario. But after our third kid was born, David was out of the country. We moved into a not yet finished remodel while he was out of the country. I had an eight week old baby and two toddlers. And I cracked up. Like I was not in my right mind. Just I would describe it kind of as an existential crisis, but just very dysregulate. Like if my kid brought me a book about outer space, it just sent me into some kind of place. And praying was hard for me. Spiritual disciplines were hard for me. I was plagued with suicidal ideation almost all the time. And I just looked around and thought like these should be like the happiest years of my life with little children. And I really thought that I would be like out there pruning a vegetable garden with a baby on my hip or while I was nursing. And I just was kind of in the fetal position. And so this just led to like a real wrestling for me of understanding what it meant to be to have a fallen condition, to be living in a fallen body, and to be seated with Christ in the heavenly places. So to be a saint and a sufferer and a sinner. And I think I really had to learn to hold all of those things in view. There's three lenses as I looked at myself to receive that compassion for me to be open to conviction without crumbling. And to really learn what it meant to rely on him in a way that sustained my life and helped me to get out of the fetal position and like parent well. So is that a specific enough picture? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You, how long do you feel like that process took? Because I think a lot of what I see with moms reaching out to me is they're like, well, I tried it for three weeks and it didn't work. And yeah, this was well, it's and that's the thing, Abby is like progress isn't linear. Right. Like any mom with a relationship to the gem knows this that like how much you can lift is going to change based on where you are in your cycle. And like, you know, macro counting doesn't always yield the results that you want, depending on the season or what hormones are, you know, whatever's going on in your body and progress isn't linear. And so, and we know that sin preys on weakness. And so you're going to see your sin more in periods of time where you're really weak. So I would say the first 18 months after I had a baby, every time it was accompanied with suicidal ideation every time. And that was and I was ready for it the last time in a way, like I had put supports in place. But it probably took 18 months, like until I finished nursing each baby, there was this, it was a more like a more painful or more intense wrestling, I would say. And then I would feel really good about myself until I had a nice baby, you know, but each time I learned more of grace in a way that changed me and made me more dependent, which really is what godliness is, is a posture of dependence on God that leads us to bear fruit by a spirit. And so I think the irony is that as we become more like Jesus, you know, if it's like a a V, we see our sin more, the higher our view of God is. And so our view of the cross has to grow to bridge that gap, you know, and the problem I think was that I yeah, it's a literal diagram of like, we see our sin is worse, we see God is more holy, and then the cross our view of grace has to get bigger in order for us to, to, yeah, to not drown in despair. So yeah, I think my view of grace grew. And so really, in times where I was seeing my sin more and wanted to feel worse about myself, or it's like a trampoline where you feel you go deeper, you go deeper into, oh my goodness, it's so much worse than I thought inside my heart and you spring higher up into joy, because that's great. So it's the springs, kind of, if that's an analogy. That's great. I love your word pictures. Yes, 100%. And I was going to go back to what you said, you said I had to something like I had to face conviction without crumbling. This is something that I get feedback on from moms all the time, is that they will tell me, for example, with my books, they'll have heard that they're convicting and encouraging and they don't like that first word. And so they're like, I put off doing this for so long, I put off reading this and really didn't feel comfortable reading this because I knew I didn't want to be convicted. I didn't because I felt like I would be crushed under it. Or it depends, it depends on the season you're in, it depends on how self aware the Lord has allowed you to be. And sometimes it was just like, you know what, I was just, I was just comfortable. I just wanted to do coasting. My view of grace is not big enough. Yeah, like that's the thing, Abby, is I think to be, to really experience true and lasting change, we have to be desperate. And in order to be desperate, it has to be like, this seems kind of hopeless. Like in order for grace to change us, grace has to seem outrageous. Like I literally can't believe you could save someone like me. That's when grace gives us that fuel to change because we're in awe of it. Yes. Yes. And I loved what you were saying about that our view of our sin needs to be that the sin is greater than we thought that it was. I think a lot of people really shy away from that, especially in a culture that tells us that sloppy agape that you were saying, God loves you as you are. He wouldn't really want you to change because you're created in his image. And you're perfect just the way that you are, which is not biblical at all, especially that last start. Yes, we're created in his image. Yes, God loves us before we ever do anything to change because we can't, as you say, change unless we actually comprehend, we start to comprehend the work of the gospel and God's grace in our lives. And we change as a response to that, not so that we can be worthy of that, obviously. But that like the perfect, just the way you are. No, all of sin and fall in short of the glory of God. And the heart of man is desperately wicked and who could know it? Like we don't even have the capability of fathoming. We see Paul, the super apostle, talking about how he wants to do something. And that's not the thing that he does in the thing he doesn't want to do is the thing he ends up doing. And how can he be saved from his wretchedness? And the answer that he immediately follows it with is Christ. Thanks be to God. Yes, thanks be to God. And then of course, we have Romans six, I think, where it's like, shall I go on sinning? I know I'm sinning and it's what I keep doing so that grace may increase. And the answer, of course, is this resounding like all caps like by no means. Yeah. So we know the answer, but it all sounds very theoretical. Until we get down to the nitty gritty of potty training or postpartum depression. And not that it matters the details, but it did make me think as you were talking about the suicidal ideations of this very strange, strange as in like, you're like, wow, why would our bodies ever do this when they are designed to have children? Thing called like dysphoric milk ejection, something like that syndrome where as milk let down comes, you have these like extreme self loathing and suicidal ideations and things like that. And I have a friend that had it and it only lasted for the let down. But I mean, every time you feed your baby, which is like what 47,000 times a day when they're on the board, yeah, you have to fight through. And I can only imagine that the despair someone would feel if they didn't have the tools to fight it. But then she's like, guess what, that's 47,000 times a day that I get to return to the truth that God loves me. Yeah, and that's I really wrestled Abby in that season of feeling like he was like rubbing my face in the dirt. You know, like I'm just like, will you let up? This is like just a lot and nursing actually was one of the only times I felt at peace. I think that like oxytocin that like release that I felt it was more when I was doing things like I struggled to everything just felt very heavy. And I just felt like it'd be easier to just quit or not be here or I would see like I would fail and then just think my kids would be better off without me like that. And for me, the real change, ironically, like I was experiencing loads of conviction. But what I think I was not believing. So I felt like he was rubbing my face in the dirt, but I feel like what I learned to see as there was more of an invitation like I'm going to really pull back the curtain on just how like this sounds terrible, but like unlovable you are so that you can realize what what a miracle my love is and really resting in that love. Like I feel like he stripped me of the things I run to to feel lovable, like my ability to perform, to serve at church, to look really shiny or like accomplish a lot where we'll get specific like that I sewed my kids clothes, you know, like all these things that suddenly were so hard I couldn't get food on the table. Any place where I found place place my confidence in my abilities, he just took it and here's all I have left. And that made such a profound difference for me in the way that I lived as I heal. That makes total sense. I have not experienced that level of postpartum dysregulation, but I've had various versions of things. Yeah. And I do remember that same thought. So I've had postpartum anxiety, I've had postpartum rage, I've had mild postpartum depression, just very disassociated feeling. And I remember the same feeling after I had Evianola that you described where it's like, this should be it was like Christmas. And they were probably two months old. And it was one of those like, just very warm and cozy moments, the fires going my husband's playing on the rug with my older boys, the babies were happy, like everything was good in that moment. And I remember like looking at myself from outside being like, you should feel euphoric right now. And you feel numb, you know? Yes, I do. Yeah. And I was able to be like, this isn't normal. And it'll probably pass. And it did. It was about six months for me. And not every moment felt that way. But I think it's important and you talk about this to and I do too, like in MS for Mama, I have a mom guilt versus conviction. Yeah. Yeah. It's so important for us to be willing to give a clear eyed look at things that are kind of out of our control, but never out of God's control, like hormonal fluctuations, kind of the things that we want to give ourselves a pass for because I don't have control over how numb or not I feel right now. Yeah. But I still have a responsibility to make righteous choices in as much as I have the ability to control my tongue and control my hands and, you know, control all those things by God's strength. Right. And then also those things, the performative things that you were talking about that produced mom guilt that are areas of freedom in Christ. Can you talk about kind of how you wrestled through compartmentalizing those things or how that helped you? Yeah. I mean, I think the enemy is called the accuser for a reason. And so Hill Hurl, whatever, to be like, you're the worst, you know. And I think that the, you said clear eyed and I just want to say, I think this is where community really matters because if you are in a season listening where like your head is really swimming and you just don't trust yourself, you know, like you're shitting all over yourself, like I should be this, I should be that. It is so helpful to have someone to clarify that. I was like, Yeah, sorry. Yeah. If you're not, if you're in a season where things don't feel really clear to you and you're kind of spiraling or giving your, you're doing the run around, it's so helpful to have someone who's getting eight and a half hours of sleep or he's not in that season and who's been in that season, come in and listen to what you are saying, thinking, feeling guilty about whatever and can help you sift it through the word of God. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what Abby Halverstadt thinks. It matters what the word of God says. And so if you're in a season where it's hard for those things to come to mind or feeling really tired or weak, community is there for you for that. So you can say the worst thing you're thinking out loud to someone, and they can help you process that according to the word of God. And I think that's where too, so many times, Abby, I have said, I feel so guilty about what I'm feeding my kids or how often I'm feeding my kids or whatever. And a friend has just been like, that is not a biblical mandate. You know, like you don't have to carry all carry all that around with your kids in your groceries, you know, you can put that down. And so I think that's a good distinction to say, okay, is this unnecessary guilt? Or is this conviction for the word? Either way, we get relief, we either set it down because it's not something we need to feel guilty about, or we set it down because it's something that Christ's blood covered. And then we can experience joy from repentance and turn and mark the other way. Right. Because in that example of the feeding the kids, I guarantee there's some people that are like, well, but what are you feeding them? Which is none of their business. But there have been times I've told this story several times. So who knows how many times I've said this on this podcast. And I know I've told them another one. I felt convicted to stop feeding my kids cereal, because I knew the reason they were eating cereal was my convenience. As a tired mom of lots of small children, it wasn't because it was the best thing for them to eat. And so for me, that ended up being a conviction, not a societally imposed guilt trip. Yes. Yeah. And so that was something that I had to eventually like face up to and be like, okay, okay, I got to do something about this. Yeah. So it's not inherently wrong to let your kid watch a show. Right. But the reason behind you turning on the TV matters. If you're reaching for that to advocate your responsibility or void conflict or whatever, that's different than like reaching for it as a joy to spend time together or a help to like walk away and regain composure and agency so that you can show up as the mommy want to be. You know, I think the heart behind what we're doing is really important to consider. But we don't have to be fair, safely burdened with things that people are calling law. It is not actually law. Absolutely. When you've got people that are like, oh my word, you ate seed oils this week. Do you even love your children? And you're like, calm down. Yeah. Okay, we're gonna be okay. Yeah. And that's where you often find that your worth and your your salvation ends up being based on a very workspace, you know, view of God of I have to like you said, fair say equal where they're saying, you know, go be warm and well fed, but not lifting a finger to help. But they're they're over here, tithing their mint and their dill. And like, find the balance of not hyper fixating on things that ultimately have no eternal value, but also not just saying grace, grace, grace, like, although we do love grace, but we do love grace. Yeah. But but when the Holy Spirit is saying, hey, hey, you're like, grace, grace, grace. Well, and sometimes I think too, the you're mentioning seed oils, and this is kind of making me giggle. We one of our son has been having having some health issues. And I find that a lot of what I'm burdened by in motherhood currently, Abby is like, what the Institute says that Jesus did not consider equality with God, I think to be grasped, but he humbled himself. And we're memorizing those verses right now, the kids are like, I'm getting ready to teach our church women's retreat on both institutes weekend. And I mean, thinking so much about all the ways that I behave as if equality with God is in fact a thing to be grasped. And some of those ways are like, believing that I can be omniscient, you know, that I and wisdom really is doing what you like discerning what is right and carrying it out, according to what you know. And I just can't know, I can't know what is happening in my son's nervous system fully, I can't know what the effect of everything he says or whatever supplements or I can't know at all, but God does. And I think a lot of these places we feel panic and motherhood or burden are invitations to rest in the one who is omniscient. And we are so tempted to try to get more power, to try to become more powerful over certain situations or to try to get more knowledge or to try to be everywhere all the time. And I think that at the heart of the thought, and I worry any of my kids, there is a desire to love them and for them to turn out well. But then there's this ugly underbelly that's also like, if I can just be good enough, I can save them, you know, and I think that is what we have to let go of. Like, not putting because not putting our hope in like seed oils are not seed oils, you know, and that's really what that is, it's just elevating, it's a huge calling and responsibility to be a mom. And God doesn't need you to save your kids. Yep. Yeah, which I've heard that conversation veer off in, in which case, not don't try, but kind of just, it ends up, case, you're a sera. Yes. Yeah. And that's not what we're called to either because you're on a 663 and I don't hear you saying that at all. This is not my contrasting it with what you're saying, I am agreeing with you, that man, what a burden lifted to know that we cannot determine the outcome, we can do everything perfectly, we actually can't nobody does that. But we can do things as close to righteously as we are called to do. And our kids still can reject everything that we taught them. And it will not mean it will not mean that we have failed. Yeah. Because at some point we will have failed, yes, but it will not mean we disobeyed God's mandate to teach his ways and his commands to our children because as we're doing that, we are obeying God first, not producing, not like, I wrote something the other day that I was like, oh, Lord, you gave me that because that helped my brain. And I said, it's like putting a cosmic quarter in the gumball machine of God's providence and saying, I want that one, that big shiny red ball. And when the machine jams and we're like, but we put in the right amount and we start getting mad at God that he didn't pop out the shiny red ball, then we find when we've talked about this several times already in this podcast, we find where our hope truly was. Yes. And what our motivations are. And that's one of the things that I like very strategically say within this book, Abby, is that even if you picked up this book because your desire is to be as godly as possible so that you will harm your kids as little as possible, your motivation for change has to be the glory of God. Because anything else, anything else as a primary verse is idolatrous. And like that can't produce true and you know, like we cannot worship outcomes. Mm, man, girl, you got all kinds of sound bites in here. This is good. I wasn't I've been wrestling hard. I'm like, you're also probably on the podcast circuit. So you are like talking through this. I know when I every time I do an episode, some another aspect of like God's goodness or grace or experience is highlighted. It's so good for me to think through. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, absolutely. You talk about scripture and I really had not thought even while we're memorizing it, I had not thought about that angle that you just said of one of the ways that we try to. I've just always thought like Jesus was God. He just chose to set his deity aside for the sake of obeying his father and loving us and praise God for that. Like what a savior. But I hadn't really ever thought how we who are not in very nature God attempt to elevate ourselves to that place of being omniscient and omnipotent. And I really loved that application. And I think what you did right there is what lots of moms want to be able to do. And one, I think that they struggle to do that because they're getting their scripture secondhand. They're either getting it from a podcast, which I mean, good, if you have a podcast that's giving you scripture, great, that's better than a podcast that's not. But you've got to be getting the primary pipeline of your own personal reading of God's word. So I think that's one problem. And two, they have the personal reading, but they don't necessarily have the training to like know how to apply it. And you talk about this with moms, but you also talk about this with speaking practically about scripture to your children. And that's another question I get asked constantly is like, well, what that actually looked like? I feel so awkward. I get tongue tied. My kids ask me questions I don't know the answer to and then I feel overwhelmed. Kind of can you give some some practical tips to the mom that feels like I would love more scripture in my life for me and for my kids that I'm I don't know where to start. Yeah, I think like the tongue tied overwhelmed bit, I just like, it comes back to the identity thing, right? Like we want to look like we know what we're talking about in front of our kids. Like we don't want to be found out to be the big idiot who doesn't know the answers, you know. But they are, I mean, I jump hyper talks about he's taught the same passage of scripture over and over and over and every time he gets up to teach you learn something. And so we should be learning our whole lives. And you've probably heard this in like the homeschool mom world, but as as the mom, you are the lead learner. Yeah, you and it's a part of what we're teaching them is how to learn. So when our kids come to us with questions about God's word and we don't know the answer, we can say, that is a really good question. Let's learn together. And sometimes there's not an answer. Sometimes it's just God is so big and literally one of his attributes is incomprehensible. And so sometimes we hit that point and we are led to worship, you know, and Job is a great example of that. And we want all these answers. And God gives us a self. And that's a reason for us to worship. But I think also being like reading the word of God alongside your kids, making sure they have really good resources is important. Like not all children's Bibles are created equal. Yeah, you know, and so one of the things really when they're really little, this is nitty gritty abbey, but one of the things when they're really little, we really focus on the overarching story of scripture using children's Bibles. And then we will do memorization. We use Susan Hunt's ABC Bible versus but children's Bibles don't change hearts, right? That's not the word of God that's given a tool. But Michael Kruger says the word of God doesn't just say things that does things. It's not as if the Bible is magic, but it is living and active. And so we want to get the actual word of God in front of our kids and inside their brains. So I think it's important to have a resource where you're showing them how to read scripture, which is the in the context of redemptive history through the lens of the gospel, understanding that the whole thing's about Jesus, and then also have a way that the actual Bible is in front of them, whether that's reading a Proverb everyday out loud or reading a verse a day of a gospel, you know, that you're walking through together or whatever is so age dependent. I feel like what scripture intake looks like. But avoiding it because you're afraid of looking silly. I think it's dangerous. I agree. Yeah, it's dangerous. It's kind of like, you know, someone who's renting and their rent is due so they just don't answer the door. It's not going to change the fact that at some point, it's very relatable. It's unwise. It's not smart. And at some point, you know, you're going to realize like I put something inevitable off and that makes scripture sound negative. Like something that's like a payment it's like a payment due and so maybe not the best analogy. But my point is that it's a good thing to follow God's law and to to learn more about it and to say with David, thy word is a lamp into my feet and light into my path. In other words, it's going to bring more clarity and light to your life. It's not going to bring more confusion. There are going to be times when you're like, wow, I'm really lost. I need to do some reading. But just like it says in James 5, God is faithful and he doesn't he doesn't give us wisdom reproachfully. It says without reproach and that he always gives it. That's like a promise of scripture. And so when we go to him and we say, I'm kind of lost and someone's, you know, name comes to mind and you're like, I think I'm going to go ask her. And then she's like, Hey, try this study Bible. This is really great. I especially enjoyed the footnotes and here's how you would read them. And you suddenly I find there are so many things in my life that I have been so intimidated by because I have no knowledge of them. I just have like the description of them in front of my face and I'm like, golly, that sounds insurmountable. And then bit by bit, you become more familiar with it, whether it's making meals for your family or photography or blogging or whatever it is. And then suddenly you find yourself in the middle of it and you're like, Oh, I kind of know what I'm doing. And I'm not even sure how I got here. And the Lord is faithful with his Holy Spirit to guide you in your scripture memory and study and reading to give you like little avenues that open up that you're like, Oh, I'm going to pursue that prayerfully. And a year in, you're like, This is not nearly as intimidated as you used to. Yeah, I love that you said bit by bit to your Abbey, because I think most of us tend to just hate process, like we don't want things to be a process. We just want to get it right away. You know, in process is really where we learn to defend and where we really grow. And it's how God works is how he created the world, even Jesus grew in stature, right? Like he works in process. But I was going to just make a plug for the local church here too. Like because scripture was the majority of scripture was written to be read in community. And scripture is really well studied in community. Like this isn't just you and Jesus like change is a group project, always a group project, even Philippians do what we're just talking about, like that is a letter to a church about growing together. And I find that when I'm sitting at a table with a group of women studying through a book of the Bible is when I learn to treasure it the most. And when I understand it the most fully, like when I study a book of the Bible in a group, I always come away with greater affection for it and greater retention of it. Because I'm learning from other women's perspectives, you know, hearing things that they studied that God revealed to them. And so that's a great thing to do too. If you're feeling lost and overwhelmed about scripture and Bible study is to find a way to plug in with other believers to do it. Absolutely. Yeah, it doesn't have to be this lone wolf practice or pursuit, which does feel very isolating. I hear a lot from moms that feel very isolated in motherhood and in pursuing godly motherhood particularly, because they feel like they're swimming upstream against culture, which they are right about that. Yeah. And so asking the Lord for wisdom on where to go and the church to plug into and because that's another thing, sadly, is I know there are a lot of people listening to you, they're like, yeah, that'd be great. But I'm in the Northeast and I can't find anywhere that's teaching the actual Word of God. They're just giving like pep talks, you know? Yeah. And so a lot of times it does require perseverance and it requires effort and it requires, but those are good things. Those are things that as you say, make you treasure it more. Yeah. Yeah. Or you start a Bible study. You know, that's true. Help love people to the place that they are the community that you want. Yes, that's really such a good point. I made that before about friendship, but it's very true about Bible study too, because that's another thing just like teaching your children requires you to be the lead learner. If instead of saying, I can't find a Bible study anywhere that will mentor me, you take what little you have, like the loaves and the fishes or the one talent that you're given. And instead of burying it and going, well, Lord, you didn't provide what I needed, you know, you say, okay, I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm going to gather these women. I'm going to invite them into my home. I'm going to provide something that I would like to have. So often that ends up being such a blessing. I mean, it's a blessing to them for sure. But it becomes a blessing for you as well. 100%. Abby, I love this conversation. And I know we could just keep going, but you have to go pick up your kids from homeschool PE. You told me you set an alarm and everything. This is our life, y'all. This is like, I often do podcasts and I'm like, I have to go pick up my kids. Like, that was all y'all. Bye. That's all. So tell us where people can find your books, because we didn't even talk about all your other ones, but you were talking about ways to teach the gospel and scripture specifically to small children. And you have a whole series of books that helps do that. Yeah. Yeah. It's called the training young heart series. The board books are all titled like, what are hands for, what are mouths for, what are ears for, what are feet for, what are feelings for. I love the feelings book, especially, and then there are three story books for older kids, your magnificent mouth, your amazing hands, your incredible eyes, which addresses privacy and, you know, dignity. But I love these books, and they're unique from what I have seen in the Christian kids market, because they encourage kids to obey by the power of the spirit. So I love, I love it too, because I think there's a lot of do's and don'ts for kids. And then all of a sudden we're talking to them about the gospel, you know, but it's all right and wrong to that point. And so I wanted to create a resource that helps parents do that well from the beginning, like let's ask God for help to obey. You know, I love that. Yeah. And so that series is called the training young heart series, the board books come in a box set, and they have been a gift to my house and a gift to me every time I read them. Abby said, I know they are gifts to so many moms, including myself. Tell us where we can find you, where your other resources are, where to follow along with you. Okay, thanks. On Instagram at abbywedgeworth, abby, wedge like a shoe, worth like how much is it worth. And abbywedgeworth.com has just all the goings on. And I have a newsletter that I really love. It's the newsletter is a much safer platform than Instagram to share. I'll be worded it that way. Yeah, so I cast my pearls among my newsletter for subscribers. That's where there's go. So the info for that is on my website and on Instagram. So yeah. Perfect. Well, you guys go grab Abby's newest book. I think my listeners know by now I do not recommend resources. I don't say go grab this if it is not something that I have personally benefited from and or is rooted in the word of God because what you said earlier, like, it doesn't matter what Abby Halberstadt thinks it matters what the word of God says. It doesn't matter what Abby Wedworth thinks. I should have said use myself sorry. No, no, no. I was like, you heard me. I said amen. 100% agree. So I love that you are faithfully teaching, like you said, obedience by the Holy Spirit's help, grace, but not the abuse of it. Hope, but in Christ alone. Yeah. Any words of wisdom you want to leave with us or just anything you want our listeners to hear? Oh man, I would just say like, don't grow weary. I think I love to talk to the but what about women who's like, you have no idea what my life looks like. Or what my kid is doing or what our struggles are. And I don't know that person personally, you know, but those people are in my life. I've been that person, you know, like if you really knew if you only knew. And so the exhortation that I would leave is just like, thank God, as well as for the but what abouts? Yes, like, nothing is beyond redemption. And cling to that. Because when you humble yourself under the mighty hand of God in due time, He will lift you up. And we're not just waiting for heaven. Like He is about the business of redemption all throughout our lives. And so my prayer for listeners is just that God would give them eyes to see where He's at work and their life and in their motherhood and in them, and that they would not give up. Don't give up. Keep going. That is the perfect word to end with. Don't give up. Don't give up. Keep going. Thank you, Abby, so much for being on the show today. You are a blessing. I wish that we could hang out all the time. I know, same. Dang it. All right, thanks for being here. And we will, I will see you again next week.