BUILDING WEALTH THROUGH REINVENTION: INSPIRING JOURNEY OF RESILIENCE || MATT CHICK || EPISODE 062

Everybody loves the rags to riches story, right? There's because people can relate to it, right? But I was born into a poverty family. Like my parents, you know, my mom didn't work. She went to school, put it much full time. My stepdad was making 12, 13 bucks an hour. My real dad was gone. Left when I was three, he came back when I was like 13. There's two ways that you can look at that, right? So one, you could take the things that you see on a daily basis, right? So, you know, I learned work ethic by watching my stepdad call it a work or my mom not work, right? I learned how to be a good human by watching other people be bad. Either become the thing that you hate the most or don't become the thing that you hate the most. When was that exact moment when you realized that real estate was your way out? It was chance for you to be right to your own family legacy as well. You know, I liked that question a lot. I didn't know. Like I was in a car business, I was running four dealerships. I had over 60 employees running 25 salespeople. F***. I enjoy real estate. Real estate as a traditional sales agent. I enjoy it to a degree. Real estate investing is really what I'm passionate about. You know, because you kind of create your own income, you create your own opportunities. You know, sure you got to go out and hustle and find it, hunt and kill it, drag it home. But at the end of the day, you get to decide what you make on that deal. The co-twinning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. If you are interested in learning about the real estate, the real estate development, investing, I have a person right now who is very experienced in the field. He's also a coach, he's a founder. Above all, a father and husband as well. So there's going to be a very, very enlightening interview. So if you are specifically interested in learning about in the real estate space, pay attention. There's going to be a very, like I said, educational, very informative interview. I would not further adieu the man himself. We have Matt Chick. So, Matt. Thanks for having me. I'm Jack. I'm excited, dude. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, boss. I mean, one of the things I do love about people, I think you and I discussed earlier on before we started, everyone's somewhat got a story. Everybody. And I know you just shared something briefly, you started to speak about Christianity, past being an atheist and finding God. But obviously, you mentioned that your past was filled with hardship and poverty. How did that shape your hunger for success in real estate? Man, I actually get that question a ton, right? Because everybody loves the rags to riches story, right? There's, because people can relate to it, right? But I was born into a poverty family. Like my parents, my mom didn't work. She went to school pretty much full time. My dad, my stepdad was making $12, $13 an hour. My real dad was gone. That's when I was three. He came back when I was like 13. But I think there's two ways that you can look at that, right? So, one, you could take the things that you see on a daily basis, right? So, I learned work ethic by watching my stepdad call it a work or my mom not work, right? I learned how to be a good human by watching other people be bad, right? Does that make sense? So, it's like, you go so poverty when it comes to creating money and finances, there's only two paths here for me. It was either stay in poverty, stay broke, stay exactly how I was raised, or go create something out of life, right? And it's either you either stay exactly where you're at, or you get to go build something. And for me, it was, I didn't like where I was at. I hated being broke. It's probably why I did stuff that I did to make money at an early age. And, you know, I just hated being poor. I hated it. I hated it with a passion. So, I knew that wasn't for me. And, you know, for me, it was like, okay, I'll go do whatever I need to do to make sure that I'm not poor, to make sure that I have money. So, for me, it was like, take the lessons I've learned from my parents that weren't good lessons and turn them into positives, right? So, either become the thing that you hate the most, or don't become the thing that you hate the most. So, for me, it was, I turned away from it. Not everybody stood that lucky, though. Like, some people fall into the same trap, the same things, the same lessons, and they become the same identity that they've had their entire life, right? So, it's due personal development, self growth, and all those things, right? And that's an easy way as well, you know? Yeah. Just used to it. You're accustomed to it. You're so honored by it as well. We've been broke multiple times. Like, I've taken a ton of risk in life, and I've lost money and made money. And so, there's times, but you're right. They're being poor. I'm scared of it, but I know that I can get through it. It does create a resilience in you. If you know what it's like to boil water on a stove to take a bath, or you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. Some people get to that some moment, like, or, you know, we've had potatoes or eggs. I can't eat eggs to this day, because we had so many eggs growing up, because they were cheap. So, like, they're not cheap anymore, but... They're not cheap anymore. LAUGHTER Yeah. I'm gonna say, that's billionaires, that's right. I know. So, it's just like, you just get conditioned of those things that you just don't want to be that way anymore. So, for me, it was good. It pushed me to want to go create something that's worth having. One of the things I noticed as well from people I've interacted with, those that are still trying to find their path, usually those that had that poverty background, there's a level of anxiety and anxiousness. You know, it's like, I don't want to go back back to the point where they wouldn't do anything. You know, kind of thing. Did you have a have that that anxiety? I have, I still have anxiety to stay. Yeah, for sure. Like, anxiety is a real thing for me. I've just learned how to use anxiety as a super power, right? So, like, before anxiety would stop me, you know, it would worry me, I'd stay up at night. It would be challenging. I couldn't sleep. My wife's the only thing that could calm me down. Thank God for her. But now, I look, anytime I'm anxious, it's just because I'm not taking action. So now, anxiety puts me in action. So the thing that's creating the anxiety, if I can take action towards it, then it doesn't, you know, as long as I'm gonna go do something, like if I'm worried about raising a couple hundred thousand bucks or, you know, raising money for a project that we have or a house that we just closed and we gotta start construction or whatever the thing that gives me anxiety, I'll just go work on it. And if I can't work on it, I've learned not to worry about it. Wow, I couldn't agree more. When was that exact moment when you realized that real estate was your way out and was the chance for you to rewrite your own family legacy as well? You know, this, I like that question. I like that question a lot. I didn't know. Like I was in a car business. I was running four dealerships. I had over 60 employees, running 25 sales people and I freaking loved it. I freaking loved it. Fast pace, closing people, sales high energy, sales environment. It was just, it was built for me, but my wife hated it. I was working six, seven days a week, 12, 14, 15 hours a day. My, I had two kids and when I get my daughter, my wife just hated it, right? So she kinda gave me an ultimatum of like, hey, I already raised two kids without you. You've never around. If I have to do it, I'm gonna do it legit without you. She's swear she didn't say that to me, but that's how I heard it, you know? Sometimes we hear stuff. She's like, I didn't say that. I'm like, that's how I took it. So like it forced me to get into real estate. I had a buddy that was doing pretty well in real estate. I've been invested in real estate for about 20 years now. So I was flipping back when I was like 22, 23 years old, lost a bunch of money and then, it was kinda just dabbling in it. So I was just like, man, screw it, let's go. I'm gonna go full time and see what I can do. But became passionate about real estate once I found what the vehicle could actually do. When you get in the beginning, and you're just trying to survive, right? I went from making, I don't know, 125 to $130,000 a year in the car business to no income, 30 grand in the bank. That 30 grand doesn't last very long. You know what I'm saying? So like, it was at a necessity, three kids at home and a wife, wife and three kids at home. I had to go perform. So I just worked at like a job. And next thing you know, you close a deal, you make 10 grand, you close a deal, make 15 grand, and then you're like, hmm, what can I really do? Right? And then you have no ceiling anymore. Car business, I was capped. I was never gonna make any more money. Yeah. So as much as you can work so much, like you can just go so high. Yeah. Because it's still the same sales commission, sales bracket. And you don't own it. Yeah. You don't own it. You know, eventually you got to own a piece of it, maybe not all of it, but eventually you got to own a little bit of it. If you want to generate real wealth, long term wealth, you know, in real estate doesn't. It allows you to own a piece of real estate or own business. Or you know, even your, if you're a high level salesperson, close in 50 to 60 units a year, could be close to making a million bucks in GCI. So like it's just, it just kind of just shown to me. And then real estate in general, I enjoy real estate, real estate as a traditional sales agent. I enjoy it to a degree. Real estate investing is really what I'm passionate about, you know, because you kind of create your own income, you create your own opportunities, you know, sure you got to go out and hustle and find it, hunt and kill it, drag it home. But at the end of the day, you get to decide what you make on that deal. Oh, I love it so much. And so obviously flipping right now, it's becoming an ever so popular thing. And the problem is, I was trying to see through these fake groups that just started like a goal of the COVID, you know, the problem with, you know, life before and after COVID is that there's just more gurus that just started something for like a year or two that want to try and teach courses. And you need zero proof that you've done anything in it and you can go make money. If you could teach it, that's ridiculous. It's it's true though, you know, it's what it is. That's ridiculous. You know, social media has changed the game, you know, you don't need, if you have popularity, you have everything. And which is, even back then, popularity to be earned and right now, it's like you say one thing, go with it, and people just like follow the crowd as well. So people, even during their due diligence, are like, well, I found out the guy was a forum, like, but you just looked at these, I'm on the followers as well, you know what I'm saying? And that's the thing that I feel like, that's so hard to try and see through the right people. And I don't know what it is, but like the best way I've been connecting with high quality people is the fact that like, my like surrounding is like quality as well. And I've noticed the people like Jake and Jo, because of how they are, I feel like sometimes you also born with that natural discernment where you just know like these people are just, 100% and it just, it ends up rubbing off that. I just, I so hard going through so many people are like, this is, this is people on genuine. Like it's, I'm sure you see it more than I do. I'm sure you see it a lot. You get to interview people and it's like, like this is our first time meeting, you're either gonna know I'm genuine or not by the end of it, right? I'm sure you see that a lot, you know? No, this spoke really highly of you. They spoke really high, I was excited about that. I appreciate those guys. Yeah, they're good people. No, and I think so, when you start in flipping, what was, what was the process of which you did that was, like did you have to get the right credit score, did you have to get the right lend, did you have to get the right place? What was the first step that you, did you kind of, like, deal flow is everything. So if you can find the deal, you can find everything else, right? So we just got really, really good at finding the deal, right? So cold calling, you know, bulk texting back when I was a thing, agent referrals, like we were just laser beam focused on finding deals. And then once I started finding deals, there was really only a couple of ways I knew how to dispose the deal. It was either wholesale it or, you know, fix it up and flip it. So once I figured out, I didn't have enough capital to fix the flip. I started raising capital, made a top 25 hit list. And I have a buddy of mine that was doing CrossFit at 11 a.m. during the day. And I'm like, either his wife supports him or he has money because if you're working out in the middle of the day, you know, you're either working at night or somebody seemed pretty well to do. So we just started hitting that hit list and started pitching. And I was pitching people. I was pitching people on what we were gonna do, not what we've done, right? So it was all like, hey, here's my vision. Here's what it looks like. Here's a model, here's what I'm thinking. And dude, we had two meetings. One meeting, we raised a million bucks and started flipping. One guy, you know, he believed in it. The original ask was only for $60,000 because I wanted to spend money on ads. So we were gonna wholesale everything. We were just gonna wholesale everything. And then this guy was like, hey, you know, we'll come in and bring some money. And then in the very beginning, we were giving 30% of our profit away to him. He would carry the house, carry the rehab, 30%. And then as you start scaling, you realize buying houses with 100% cash is an absolute mistake, because your skill ability is low. Like, you know, if your average asset is $400,000, $4 million doesn't go that far. It's hard to scale, right? So then we started using hard money with a combination of private money, went and raised about seven and a half million, have nowhere near that in the street anymore. But, you know, right now we stay pretty lean right now, but we've done, I don't know, 155 deals with the last four and a half years, something like that. What advice did you give? Because I've only experienced this thing like recently, where I'll be someone to be heading towards, like, events space, because I've been connecting some of the top podcasts as well. So something that isn't working progress. And it was shocking to me when I actually had investors approach me. And I'm like, gosh dang, I've only been doing this thing. And the sea potential, it's just, it's mind blowing. But for people out there, I mean, you were so successful the first, like, go, what advice did you give those that are trying to, like, do funding and like, trying, like, getting investors on board? Yeah, when you sell anything, you sell the future, when you sell a business, you sell the future. Like, you've got to show where you're currently at and that you're a viable business, but you always sell the future, right? This is what you could do with it if you take it, if you come along rather ride with us. So raising capital is no different. This is what we could do if you come along on the ride with us. You're a key instrument in it. I'm gonna go raise, you know, 1510, 1520 million bucks, or whatever it is, you know, then you gotta, then you gotta create your hit list of people that you're gonna go after that potentially have the money. And then you're gonna go either, is it private equity, or is it gonna go, you know, big bank equity stuff, you know? Then that's a whole another realm. I have no clue. A hundred percent of my money is private. It's all, it's all people that I know. None of it's like bank, you know, we have hard money lenders that will lend on the deals for us. It's all people that I've made, genuine relationships, handshake deals. Wow. I raised, I raised seven and a half million on a handshake. Didn't have any, no contracts. Oh, it's been even more cool. That tells a lot about someone's character. It's right now, friend. You know, it's just so sad with how much less trust people just have within people. And it's because there's many gurus that have ruined the industry, you know, like in everything people have done. And I think just having that in just handshakes and still being afloat right now, it tells a lot about someone's character as well, you know. So we lost, in 2022 in the market, blip, we lost close to half a million dollars of investor money. And then, so I started calling all my investors, let them know where we're at. We only had a couple of investors at the time. One guy, my main guy, he took 100% of the loss. And then it took me, I took two years and I paid him back. I think we have a balance of, I don't know, 80 grand with him still currently. But, wow. I didn't take, we kept doing deals and I didn't take a dollar from it. I lived on my savings while I paid him back. Because that was the right thing to do. And you know what, many investors would say, like, oh, sorry, man, now, you know, you know the risks that's involved in the thing. 100%. I had people legit at me telling me, hey dude, you knew what the risk was. Like, you don't need to do that. I go, no, I do. Because it was on a handshake. There's no, there's no flipping way I would walk away from that. Not one. Wow. And we still own three houses together that's got another million dollars locked up in it. That once we sell them, we'll get them back. Wow. I love stories like it. And then what would you say, somebody right now watching this thing? Because I've had a lot in a real estate as well. In your opinion, what would you say is the best way for somebody to start in the space? Would you say like the Airbnb arbitrage, the investing in? No, did I suck with the short-term rental, rental game, residential retail, residential rentals? I absolutely hate them. And that field is also kind of sailing. I hate them. I feel like off the COVID, it's kind of going downhill a bit. I mean, if anybody follows the big sub two guys and all that stuff, that's how you buy. That's how you do it now. Like the day of putting 20% down on a $500,000 or a house putting a hundred grand down to get $400 or $500 a month in positive cash flow is absolutely ridiculous. Like nobody should ever do that in my eyes. Now, the people are going to tell me I'm crazy. I know a lot of people that do that. But it just doesn't excite me. I'm still in a very big place of like, I like creating active income. I'm not necessarily chasing the passive income currently. So I like active income, wholesale, fix and flips, nobations, that kind of stuff. Our residential retail team, we got 27 pending deals currently right now. So like active income is where I'm at, because I'm still trying to build. I only recently heard about nobations like last year and the concept of it is just so fascinating. Yeah. Because can you explain to the viewers what novation is as well? Yeah, novation, I mean, it's really just a fancy term to say that you're replacing one contract with another. Exactly. That's a, that's not. It's not a beautiful concept. Yeah, it's it. It's literally taking your purchase, you know, you have a purchase contract on the house and then you have the ability to like, we use an attorney in fact document. We're allowed to then list the property, you know, on the MLS find a retail buyer, find that and then create a spread and then invoice for the difference, right? So we have to invoice for the difference once a lender gets involved. It's just unique, dude. It's just a unique beast. We don't do them in Arizona. We only do them in states that were not licensed in. Our broker really didn't like us doing them here. And because we're licensed real estate agents, like our broker didn't really love it. So I would either hire another broker to list the house. We wouldn't list the house here ourselves. Or we just focus when we were like doing more stuff out of state in Georgia, Florida and Texas. That's powerful. Yeah. No, I really like that. And yeah, and I think the whole like a recurring in generation, I'm getting the sub two guys, one of them getting tomorrow, the men I'm coming back for pace, like I think next month as well. He's a stud, dude. I like pace a lot. Again, it's like sometimes it's, I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm bitching biased because it's the members of the same faith that I am. But like sometimes like it's people like you like him where you could just sense like this. They don't want to rip people off. They just generally want to help people. Because I was reading a thing when you, because he was doing a thing, we helped the homeless woman get like a thing. And the comments are like, well, why don't you like just, why do you have to show them like he's just showing the possibility of what can be done? You know what? And teach a man to fish, he's forever. That's a good one. Teach a woman how to fish, she eats forever. She never has to be, she never has to be. You only get cast on the fire. I promise you. No. Yeah, I'm not worried about that. I'm just saying that's the philosophy. He did more for her teaching her how to do that. Then he could have ever with the right in any kind of amount of check. I couldn't agree more. And it's like, it's the concept I think which stands by with capitalism at the end of the day because if you know that it's potential and you're not capped and you're not like, take a subject to be able to reach a certain level, you can actually reach that much potential. I remember coming here in the US, I don't know if you're the accent, but I'm a little bit South Africa. Okay. But coming year 2017 with my old mission companion from the church and I served the service mission. And then I just started seeing like the employment rate was like 3%. But then it's not the 3% is the fact that if you know Utah's got a very door to door sales industry, everyone knocks those, comes back, does an investment or like a duplex or something like that and starts building wealth at a super young age. And I think seeing that from like, you know, a foreigners perspective or an immigrant, it's like, what the heck? Like what's possible here? You know what I'm saying? And then you hear the story that 99% of millionaires like wealth comes from real estate and you start realizing there's so much potential. But it's about doing the right deals, doing right to people and making sure you're in the right trajectory because you can all easily get rich by scamming people as well. So I mean, take your, it comes along. You wanna add on that as well? Yeah, take the right risk. I was, you know, like we have, we have the, I call it the 10 commandments of wholesaling, right? And one of them is it's not a deal till it's a deal. And a lot of people when they first get into real estate investing, they're trying to force deals. So it's like really know your numbers, know what you know what you're capable of, buy it right, you know, fix it up right, don't over, don't overrun your rehab, don't overrun your holding costs, right? Those are the little things that matters. Like really just pencil a good deal, right? And then make sure that you execute properly. I think a lot of people get excited about investing in real estate, especially in the flip space. And it, it, it's actually a recipe for disaster. Right. Because like if you're too excited about it, you're trying to force it. You think you can push ARV, you think you can push what you're gonna sell it for. You think you're gonna be the next best sale in the neighborhood. And right now in the, in the market conditions that recurrently it is just not true. You know, like right now I'm budgeting two to three to five percent under what the last sold sale was before I buy house. Wow. So I'm gonna come out on the market 10 to 15 grand lower than the last sale because I want to sell my house quick because it's about turns. And then if I can buy it off based off that number, then maybe I get lucky and you hit the market and I make an extra 10 grand. But, you know, you want to buy off of a not a lucky number. You want to buy, you want to buy off, I call it a cake number. So there's two numbers, a cake number and a push number. I buy off my cake number. My push number is what I, blue sky, if we get it great, I'm excited when it made an extra 10, 15, 20 grand. If we don't, I bought it off my cake number and we still made 50,000. That's powerful. And then would you say right now, if somebody were to try and start like a do-plix, out of these two options that I want to talk about, would you say maybe getting a do-plix and then renting one out living on the other one, or would you say just, I know Utah was very, very common there's like basements where people end up like getting a home and then renting out the basement. Would you say those two would be a good way? I think it's all just lifestyle. Like is that how you want to do it? Like sure. Whatever you can, if you have the capability of buying a do-plix, renting one and renting out the other, great, if that's an area you want to live and you enjoy that, and yeah, for sure, or a four-plix or whatever you can do, I think you just got to look at where you add and what can you currently do, right? And then you got to analyze what that looks like. What are you bankable? DFW2 income that you're actually bankable, what can you approve for, and then you got to run the math. Right now the cost of money is so freaking high. Even if you're a retail, even if you're a retail buyer and you're buying at six and a half, seven percent interest rate, your cost of money is pretty high. So are you actually going to cash flow that asset? Would you have to sit on that asset for the next year and a half, two years, to you can refi out into a cheaper money to where you actually start cash flowing? So you got to really look at all the variables, right? And then is that the life you want to live for the next two, three, four, five years? No, that's pop. Now I think it's great. My favorite strategy is for people that like, if you're just a normal person, that's not getting in a real estate investing, you want to make sure you're acquiring real estate as investments over time, over a lifetime. Let's say you're a W2 employee, you got good income, and you want to just be in real estate, buy a house, live it in for a couple of years, make it a rental, buy a house, live it in for two years, make a rental. You do that for the next five, five, ten years, you got, you know, ten houses. Or you get, find a way to buy two, two and five, two every year for five years, you got ten homes, ten homes at five, six hundred bucks a month cash flow, you're at five, six grand a month. You know, if that excites you, and then over time, that becomes a hell of a lot better. Right? You know what I'm saying? Over time, it becomes better. You know, 20 years, 25 years, your notes are starting to get paid off, or you got appreciation. Now you can pull money out into your properties, you know, that aren't gonna be taxed. Like so then it adds, you know, then it adds something. That's so amazing. And then what's the turnaround in flipping? Let's say you get, you buy a home, and you want to flip, and how many days the turnaround before it ends up flipping out? Every project's different. Like if you were to talk, like projects that I'm currently looking on, it's I want rehab to be somewhere between 45 and 60 days. That's good. Yeah, I want to be done in eight weeks. So if we can be done in 60 days, and back on the market, and I have 30 to 60 days of selling it, 30 to 45 days selling it, it gives me a four month turn to actually have it on the market and rehabbed, and then 30 days to sell. So I'm a four to five month hold process. Wow. And that's when you get the cash just comes as soon as it's sold. So, right. Okay. And then what would you say is like, your first one you said you made like 15K or 10K? On which one? The first flip you did. Oh, first flip I did was, no, it was a home run. I did like 55 grand on that one. 60,000 something like that. Yeah. Yeah, most of them were really good until about 22. And 22, I decided to scale, raised a bunch more money, had 21 projects going at once, and then it just didn't work out. And then I also in the commercial space? Not a ton, I'd love to be in it. We help people get in a commercial, but we don't flip commercial. So commercial, oh yeah. But this is in the process of it more unique and different. Yeah, for sure. It's different. And what I like about commercial, it's definitely more business, right? It's more business to business. Right. But I just, I haven't flipped commercial. So I don't know. And have you, do you have any commercial investments though? No, zero. I'd be open to it though. For sure. That'd be a good lane. Yeah. We're really looking at right now as specs. We're going to do some development specs. We're looking for land like out east, Queen Creek, Apache Junction. We're looking to do some specs. So I enjoy the flip game. Everything serves its purpose, but eventually you got to figure out what is it good for like annually, right? Like I know guys that are flipping 15 to 20 houses a month, and that's their business. And they're okay with some $15,000 profits, some $50,000 profits. My goal is to make 55 grand a house, so I won't do the deal. Wow. So like if I can't make 40 to 55, then we just pass on the deal. And that's on an asset class of five to 600,000. That's crazy. And then with that, in the flipping range, obviously every state has got like its own state laws and permits and stuff like that. I'm sure. I'm primarily like just do the Arizona, right? Yeah. Yeah, we don't flip. We flipped in Texas and it was a nightmare, but we don't flip another state. We wholesale in other states. We don't flip in California, that's where it's. Well, that's not interesting. You know I found, dude, that, you know, I used to... I was provoking you. Yeah, you found for no, no, no. Sorry, continue. I found probably about three years ago. I am that guy that has shiny object syndrome. I like different businesses. I like different ideas. I'm an idea guy more of a visionary than an executor. So like I enjoy daydreaming about big stuff. Yeah. And I just found that it just didn't serve me, man. So like about four years, three and a half years ago, I made a decision to just stay laser beam focused on what I'm good at and what I know. And now I just say no to everything else. Wow. It takes a lot of special doing what your personality is. It takes a lot of discipline, you know? Yeah, I had a nail salon. We had a nail salon that we owned. We had like six or seven different businesses. None of them were fricking crushing. They were all just a distraction from the thing that would actually make me money. So I just said, good amount. Not doing it. No, I love that. And I think, I mean, with this level of success, the trajectory that you've been on, I noticed one of the things that most on trucking years that are successful as yourself have, there's a mentorship. People that like guided them throughout the world. Did you have that for yourself? Yeah, I've paid so much for coaching. I'm literally paying, I paid $6,000 a month for coaching right now. Three different coaches. Do you mind sharing them all with you? Yeah, so Dustin, Ronyan, Alex, Sheplack, and then I have a guy named Coach JD. So Coach JD's in California, Dustin, Ronyan, runs a big real estate team here in Lake Havasu, just a fricking beast of a man, big in a development. He's raised hundreds of millions of dollars in money for development as a real estate team that does a ton of transactions. But he really helped me in just focusing clarity and what was important. He believes on taking work on the person and the person will develop the business, right? So we've worked more in the person rather than the business and it just kind of goes. And then Alex Sheplack, he's my marketing coach and then his wife Shannon Sheplack is my health coach. So I pay a ton for coaching. If you don't know the answer, you can either go figure it out or you could pay someone that's already been there. So high level of accountability around what I want to do. So I just tend to pay for coaches and my coaches become my friends and then I have amazing relationships with them all. I've never interviewed a single person or came across single person that has not invested in themselves or have to. Have to. Have to. So most important money that you'll ever spend in your life. Exactly. They just, it's a cheat code. I can pay someone, you know, one of them I pay a thousand dollars a week, another one I pay, a 1,250 a month, another one I pay like five or six hundred bucks a month to. But like literally there are people that have done it. Like so why? Like now I just got to go execute it. And that's in a struggle in itself, right? Because if it's not a habit yet, you got to go especially on the health stuff. Like if it's not a habit yet, you got to go figure out how to make it a habit. Business is no different, right? If you're not used to, you know, banging the phones and making 500 calls a day for you to go do it one day and then go do it for the rest of your life, you got to create that habit, right? So that's the important piece. And it's, I think another thing I'll always see as two components to it. One, yes, you're paying them to try and, like you said, cheat code, give you the path that you can lead to your success, but also helping you avoid the mistakes that they did. 100% and then number two, it's also you're holding yourself accountable. Now that I've paid you, you're gonna have to act on it. Because how many things have I gotten for free that I'm like I just put aside, because it's for free, you don't value it as much. But if you pay, you're like, well I pay you a thousand bucks. How many I get my thousand bucks worth of what it is, you know? So that's how I always see it. And I do the same thing right now. And I go to many networking events. I find ways to try and find myself in the right room and ask questions. That's so important. It's everything. I've paid thousand bucks for dinners, because I knew people that were gonna be there that I wanted to be involved with. I've paid thousands of dollars to go to events, but I was purposeful. I figured out who's gonna be in the room. And then why do I wanna be connected to that person? Then I was purposeful in making sure I connected with them when I was there. Like being strategic is not a bad idea. I love it. I love it so much. I mean, from obviously going to selling about like 40 homes in your first year to leading one of Arizona's Fossil Scoring Teams, what would you say are those habits that change from when you started to weigh X right now? The habits, they're all the same, right? So like it's working like it's a job every day. Like I work this like it's a job for me, right? Even though I'm my own boss, a show up, and I do the work that's supposed to be done to make sure I have what we have, right? So, but the number one thing to focus on every when you build a real estate team is recruiting. So the number one thing you should always do is always be recruiting. And I've had ebbs and flows in that. Like right now my real estate team's smaller than it's been in a while, because I took my foot off of recruiting, right? So today, I don't know, last week a recommitted recruiting. I got a pipeline of four or five agents that I were thinking about coming on board. So the work works, right? It's just do the same thing over and over. That's something that's tough for me that I might be tough for a lot of people is the consistency and the thing that breeds you the result, right? It's always being willing to do the same thing over and over. Entrepreneurship is actually really boring. When you work for yourself, it's actually very boring because the boring things are what works, right? So like, and for guys, I like excitement. Like I thought, you know, KOS used to serve me, but KOS was ruining my result, right? The truth is the only thing that matters is doing the activity on a daily basis that breeds the result that you want, right? So if I know that recruiting feeds my business and I need 40 or 50 agents to get back to a hundred million in production, then I gotta go recruit every day. That means send 20 face talking messages to agents congratulating them on closings, sending text messages, calling the school list. That means I have to go do those activities or I gotta hire someone to do those activities for me, right? So it's just being a real estate agent is no different, being an investor is no different. If you wanna be a real estate agent, it's 20 connects a day. Go talk to 20 people a day for the rest of your freaking life, for the rest of your life. As long as you're an agent, it's 20 people a day. That's the standard. Yeah. You know, if you wanna be an investor, then I would talk to 20 real estate agents a day and see if you can find deals. That's how I would network for the deals. Or you gotta go spend money to find deals, or you gotta call a color, draw an eye. Whatever the one thing is or two things are that you're gonna go do, you gotta do that for this life and you gotta commit to it. I love that, I love that so much. And but the problem that lies on this whole thing is the fact that yes, you did admit and say that on Trump and you can get boring. What happens, you know, Robert Kusakis cash flow quite a time. The employee, small business, big business investor is the fact that when people go from E to S, they get so in love with the idea of doing everything because there's a lack of trust and delegating. I wanna do, I wanna do, I wanna do, which could lead to Bernardo, also it could lead to stagnation, but also leads to the fact that you just think that no one is good enough to do what you can do. And see some degree, it's because also people feel like they invest in so much in their own businesses that they feel like people can't be able to do that live. Have you ever struggled with that before? No, okay. No, I'm the guy that delegates everything. I have my old business partner, and my old business partner explained me perfectly. I'm really good at step one. I'm good at getting the relationship, I'm good at creating the opportunity, I'm good at step one. And then step two through 99, I need someone else to do. That's just who I am. That's just who I am. So my partner today, he carries a lot of the heavy lifting with the retail side and production and all that. My job is to go create opportunities, invest in real estate, raise capital and agent recruiting. So we just stay in our lanes, but you have to know yourself well enough. I didn't know myself well enough to do that. I'm saying, does that make sense? So you have to know yourself well enough. And it's explained, and it describes me perfectly. That's why I don't take offense to it. Like if someone goes, you get it executed? No, I'm not. I'm really good at building relationships. I'm good at getting stuff done at DefCon 5. If it's at a point that it has to get done or it's gonna blow something up, I'll get it done. But until it's DefCon 5, I suck at getting it done. Interesting. Now, and what's the hardest part about recruiting the right people? Because recruiting is, I mean, it's not that hard. Get it out to get a few people there, but the right people that see your vision. Cultures everything and then holding standards, right? Gotta be able to hold standards and cultures everything, right? So we have really a four standards on our real estate means, 20 connects a day, show up to 90% of everything put on, clear tasks every day. And the last one, I have to cuss, but it's don't be an asshole. And what that really means is, have a spirit of contribution. And this, I stole this from Dustin Ranian on how he runs his real estate team. Those are literally his standards. The only one that he doesn't have is tasks done daily. I have one that, yeah, all you tasks have to be done daily. And the spirit of contribution basically means, hey, in the beginning, people are gonna pour into you. When you have a question, someone's gonna answer. Sooner or later, you're gonna have the answer to a question that someone else has. You're expected to give that answer, and this isn't, we're here as a community and help each other to get where we wanna go. And if that's not who you are to your core, then we're just not gonna be the right fit. Cause we give everything away for free. I'll help anybody anytime, don't care. Like I have a couple of coaching clients now, you know, that pay me, I invite them to the team stuff. I invite, you know, like, not everything has to be paid for. There's a lot of stuff people get for free just from being in our world. Now, and that's so true, I couldn't agree more. A culture makes it, or breaks like a told team. And you've seen cultures that are just little talks, you've seen cultures that are super complacent, where people don't see a video, and you see people that like, aren't, when I clock it in clock it as well. Cause you don't wanna really be there. And are your sales reps is like a commission thing? All of it, yeah. So we have about 12 people on staff that we pay, and then the rest are 1099 contractors. Yeah. Okay. Which is also hard in itself. It's actually easy to pay someone. And most people work better when you're paying them as an employee. I have a, I have a freaking crazy concept of like, 100% payrolled real estate agent team, where everybody is on salary, and I think that we could do more business. Cause then you, you hold them accountable to the standard because you're paying them to do it, and most people would probably do it easier than they would do it for themselves. And I could pay them probably 30% less of what they would make as a regular agent just doing it on their own. Most people operate better as an employee. It's very rare to find someone that can operate to that, to a standard, right? At least I haven't found it. You know, it takes, you know, you're gonna, out of 10, you're gonna find two or three. And then you try to hope to God, you keep the two or three. And that's what it is. How's our tension on your side? We have an attrition rate of 30%. Okay. Yeah. Which we need to fix. It's industry standard for a real estate team. But like I would like it for to be a lot less. And that's gonna come down to culture. It's also gonna come down to opportunities and that falls on us, right? The bigger we can create the team, the more opportunities we can give agents, the bigger they could see a vision within staying. And those are our burdens, right? We have to make it so big that they never see themselves going anywhere. Exactly. And also incentives and stuff like that, right? And seeing like a headless and if I reach a certain target, this is what's gonna be able to be there as well. 100%. Real estate is such a cycle, you know? So coming with teams, coming, coming and going. It's like, oh, yeah, let's try that. Let's try that kind of thing. And most teams are raised to the bottom. Like commission splits, you know, brokerages are erasing the flat fees. You know, most of it's a race to the bottom on how cheap someone could be with you. You know, but we don't prescribe to that. And what do they do? Do they just do cold calls or they find out? No, we have five legion levers that we focus on. Sphere, social media, open houses, leads, and then agent referrals. Okay. Those are our five leads, lead levers. Okay. Yeah, super, super laser beam focus on what we do. Well, if someone comes in and plugs in and do what we tell them, they'll make money guaranteed. And what would you say is good in that field in making money per year? Oh, I mean, good. Like, I know agents making a half a million, 600,000 dollars a year. Okay. Yeah, well, I would say average agent, they all want to make six figures, right? That's the big, anytime you interview a real estate agent, they want to make six figures is what it is. But if you get 20 connects today, you'll make six figures for sure. And I think that's one thing I like as well about real estate. It's been consistent over the years. I mean, like what the standard expectation is because with all these other industries, I was in the sole industry, it was like slightly more than six figures, but then it went, it's one of the booms that kind of got me up and down. But like insurance and like real estate is one of the most consistent stuff over a year and over time as well. And also the fact that I noticed that you strive to help a lot of entrepreneurs also like, you know, make six figures is you giving a realistic expectation rather than saying your first year can make like 30 million dollars. Yeah. No, I tell everybody like anytime someone says, hey, I want to make a hundred grand, I tell them straight up. I go, I don't know, I don't know a bunch of businesses. You can make a hundred grand part time. Yeah. So if you're not well in work 40 or 50 hours a week, then let's just get rid of the hundred grand goal. If you only want to work 20 hours a week, then it's going to be, you know, you probably will make 40, 50,000. You know, now I know people that have done it that have made multiple six figures. I know a good buddy of mine worked at the post office and he was doing 40 deals a year. That might be wrong, so don't quote me on that. But he was making well over in the six figures and running a real estate team and working at the post office. That was just an animal. Just a frickin animal. Yeah. Love high energy, super fit, do is just an animal. That's not a normally though. It's not a very common thing. It's not at all. No, not at all. What's the most painful investment that you've ever made and what did it teach you? Are you actually, I think you may have mentioned that the one you lost is off the code but is that the most painful one? No, I had, if we're talking deals, like investment deal. Yeah. I would say, I had a deal that I bought. We call them relationship deals. I was trying to get in relationship with a guy. It was a deal that I typically don't buy side unseen. So what I did is he had a house. I got, I underwrote it. I didn't really necessarily love it. I asked him a bunch of questions on it and ended up saying, hey dude, I'll buy this. I'll take this off your hands, but I want, I want to see everything that you get. Like I want to be a legit buyer for you. So I bought it, side unseen. He told me I couldn't walk it and I knew like I shouldn't have done that. Anyways, I bought the house. Rehab was only supposed to be 50,000. That's what I was told that it was going to be in an integrated red tag by the city. The permit, the addition that was on it wasn't permitted. They made me rip it off, re-do it. So I ended up having a tear off like 600 square feet of this house, permanent, put 600 square feet on, do a full rehab, cost me $145,000. When it was supposed to be 50 grand, so as a 100 grand over budget. Wow. Sold the house and then I lost $142,000 on one project. I'm a visual learner, you know what I'm saying? So I paint pictures every time people are talking and right now that's like, oh my gosh. I'm lighting a bag of money on fire. And you get antidepressants for that. That's horrible. It's horrible. Oh yeah. And I think it's important because then you learn from these mistakes and one thing I can't stand is on top of you is that just have the success stories of 111111 all the time. Because when something does happen, you're not prepared for this well, but that was a lesson. Do you think it has helped you see things a little differently now? I will say no if I can't walk it. If they said you had a bite of sight and see and I just don't trust it anymore. And there's a lot of guys that do and they're willing to take the rest of it. It's not that guy. If I can't walk it cool, send it to someone else. So you're a very pretty much. Yeah. So the way I underwrite deals now is I disqualify them. If I can't disqualify it, then it's a deal. I literally look at every deal and why it's not a deal now. Every deal. I don't even try to make it a deal. My only goal is to make it not a deal. And then if it's not, if I can't do that, then that's probably a deal. Wow. So I literally tear the deal apart. And do you also focus on the, on the residential side? Do you focus on the high end homes, like the high millions? We've done million and a half is our biggest. Okay. Yeah, a million and a half. I would, it just takes so much more capital, right? You just place and weigh more money. Your rehabs are bigger. Now you're like two, three, four hundred thousand in rehab. Your holding costs are 10, 15 grand a month per project. It just takes a lot more capital. So just the risk reward for me. And I haven't seen it work out where I make in multiple six figures on the deal. Like if I'm putting up a half a million bucks, a capital, you know, like I'd like to see at least a return of 150 to 200 grand. And I have found that they could be a hundred thousand dollar ribs or they could be $75,000 ribs. So like for me, I'd rather go do two at 500,000. Wow. Yeah. That makes, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. This is longer projects, right? You start getting a 3,500, 4,000 square foot house. You're reconfiguring it. You're, you know, you're doing a bunch of stuff, you know? And then you're dealing with a different, you're dealing with a buyer, a different buyer that has a different attention to detail. So now it's gotta be meticulous. And it's gotta be perfect, which is fine. Like I enjoy giving that kind of product, but there's no room for error at that point. And then what's the ROI for an investor that invests in you in like these projects, like what can, what's a return on investment? 10%. Okay. Yeah, they get that's good. Yeah. I guarantee 10% overturn for anybody that places money with me. I haven't needed money in a long time. So like I don't necessarily raise capital much anymore, but like if someone wants to get on and they're both super projects, because we align, like if I like them, you know, if like it's a, I got one guy right now that just generally wants to just get in the game, he's got about a hundred thousand bucks. And I'll deal with him and I'll give him 20% or whatever make. I probably won't pay him 10% I'll give him 20% of the profit. I'm a deal just because. Wow. And would you say what's the turnaround for that? Six months, I tell everybody six months. Wow. So if he's going to put up a hundred, I'll probably return 20 grandum in six months. Was just phenomenal. We have no brain there. There's no brainer. Where else do you mean, you know, where? I'm trying to even think of like volatile stock market. I'm trying to think of, uh, uh, bonds. Yeah, bonds are always guaranteed thing right now, but that's still like what 4%, 5%, depending on what it is. And that's also like a 12th man span. Like it's, it's ridiculous. That's, that's amazing 20% on that. It's huge. Yeah. So just depends, you know, I only do that for people that are like coming into my world though. Like I don't, it like gets rare that I need a bunch of money anymore. So it's, I, you know, I just don't, I've had, I have enough capital raised. I'll never scale back to 20 projects. What's the highest you've gotten for one invest in? Uh, 3 1 1 2 1 1. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One time I had 3 1 1 1 1. He's actually my business partner now. So that's why I said I don't need a bunch of money anymore. I brought, so when things got bad, he was a guy that took 100% of the hit. We were partnering before that. But when he, when he goes, I'm going to take 100% of the hit. Like he could easily said, no, I want all my money and I would have gone. I would have, like I would have, he would have put, it would have taken every ounce of dollar that I had in the bank to make it right. So when he did that, it solidified, like I'll do whatever he ever needs. Genuine friend of this day, I'd go to war for him. I'd protect his friend, like he was, they were mine. You know, I'd show up and I'd show up and take on hell. It's, it's interview in so while I hardly even look at the questions. It's not the end to the right now. That's good. No, like it, but that's the relationships we're looking for in life, isn't it? It's the sort of all about, like if we're looking for genuine relationships that we care about others, like, I mean, that's why we're here. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I can, I like that as well because when you build relationships with people, it's just, it has a different feel. And especially in this conniving and evil world, you cherish and value it so much because you realize, wow, like you really are very unique and anomaly. You know, go and do anything for you and for you as well. So I, I'm glad you found those. I'm glad you saw it on yourself. And what advice would you give people to try and get those genuine relationships? Oh, you have to be genuine. Like vulnerability is everything. You have to be genuine. You have to be real. You have to be about it. Like it's so, it's crazy. Like, I don't even know how much more time you have, but like, for me, I come from a background of, of like, where my family, where my brothers, it was people that I was doing illegal stuff with, people that I was running life differently. So like, you like had a legit bond. You would literally go to war for each other, right? If one dude was in a fight, you all were in a fight. And I hate to relate that to this, but it's that vulnerability, that sacrifice, even in today's like, so that's how I value my relationships. If, am I willing to go put my life in the line for someone else? And if it is, that's a relationship that I care about. But it only comes by being authentic and vulnerable and real and having authentic conversations. It's not about me winning on him and him winning on me. It's about how can we help each other win and level up and get where we want to go? It's a true brotherhood, right? So it's about that brotherhood that I look for. So if I can't have that, then I'm not about it. Like I don't. I suck at small talk. Like I just want genuine relationships. So I find myself going deeper and conversation faster. And then if it just doesn't match, it doesn't match. And we can be acquaintances and love each other. But it doesn't, you know, but we just would never be close, right? And as men, we're looking for genuine, genuine relationships that are close. Because a lot of times as men, we feel like we have to have this facade, but it's not true. Like we get, you know, so much of ego. I've got to show up to be something I'm not. I've got to be able to try and say drive the car. They're calling me in the forward, like to try and live a life. So then like, you know, trying to portray something. You know, it's just I drive a 98 Silverado. Right. And people make fun of me on time. I have one body goes, you're the richest bro. He goes, you're the broken rich dude. I know it's the greatest compliment in the world. It's the greatest compliment. My over and my house is ridiculously low. People laugh. I just live, I live a simple life, man. I enjoy that. I know what it's like to be a bro. I don't think you can do like, you know what I'm saying? He's the only person I can say beats. He has these three bedroom and all of that. I know. That's true. I got a nice house. Yeah, that's true. But it's guys like that that I learned from, man. It's guys like that. Like I don't want to be the flashy guy. Never have been. I just want to be myself. Show up be me and then whoever that resonates with, I'm happy with. And if it doesn't resonate, I'm okay with that. So Matt, every time I conclude and ask, oh my guess, this one thing is the last and final one because I say the coat to winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. In your definition, what does the term winning mean for you? First thing that comes my mind is relationship with God. But I don't, you know, I'm not like winning in life is having a relationship with God and knowing that your time here is not forever. So just get right with him. So when you're done, you're done and going to the right spot. But then I would, then I would, if I was talking like a worldly winning, I think the relentless pursuit of something that, that excites you. Like I don't, I don't think if it, I don't necessarily know if it's about achieving or monetary value. It's something worth living for on a daily basis, something worth creating. Relationships, family, being productive in society, a business that provides the lifestyle that you want. You know, it's about, it's about living with purpose and never losing side of that purpose. Having something to live for that's greater than yourself. Powerful. Wow. If you could let our viewers know where they could get a hold of you, if they want to try and get in the coaching program, or going on your courses and like Instagram handle social and whatever it may be. And I'll leave the description. I'll leave titles on the description as well regarding Instagram. I am Matt Chick, Facebook, Matt Chick. Those are going to be the easiest ways to find me. I suck at all other platforms. Still figuring that out. But Instagram's phenomenal or Facebook, you know, Matt Chick or I am Matt Chick on Instagram. Awesome stuff. The code of winning insights you need today to seize the world's bar, the man, the myth, the very religion of Matt Chick, baby. Let's go. Come on, baby. That was fun. I loved it. Thanks for having me.