Meme Stocks & Why Most Investors Lose

Hey, I'm Elizabeth Reese. And I'm Marjorie Punnett. We host a podcast. It's called Best to the Nest. If you want to bring love, balance, and joy to your home, relationships, or parenting, listen, we do too. We want your home to be your favorite place to be. We bring in experts to guide us along the way. We also chat about pop culture and how it plays in our lives. So learn and laugh along with us as you bring your best to your nest. Best to the Nest, the podcast that brings you home. Get it wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to We Fixed It. You're welcome. The show where we take over companies, you come along for the ride, and we try to put them back better than we found them. Imagine if a company that is not supposed to be driving the stock market suddenly became the hottest investment in town. Let's say GameStop, the mall store that sells video games. In early 2021, the company's stock went bananas. It jumped over 400% within one week. Not because of great sales, actually, the opposite, but because the internet. Here's what happened. Thousands of everyday people teamed up on social media to drive up GameStop's value, forcing Wall Street investors to scramble. And then it happened again. AMC movie theaters, Hertz Renekar, Bed Bath and Beyond, stocks that skyrocketed despite these companies' financial performance, not because of it. And thanks to the internet, it keeps happening. If you watch this phenomenon from the outside, or refer to it as meme stocks throughout the episode, it might seem like a win for the little guy. Hey, but unnaturally inflated stocks also create chaos in the market. You get instant millionaires, hedge funds that get wiped out and lose billions, companies that maybe should be bankrupt that are suddenly fleshed with cash, and untrained investors who time it wrong and get their savings wiped out. When the meme stock prices come crashing back down, which they inevitably do. So here's the question. Are meme stocks and social investing a clever way to stick it to Wall Street? Is it a loophole that should be closed or is it just madness? That's the situation we're here to fix. You got Melissa for operations, Kadyra for culture and corporate responsibility, me for marketing, and today we've got more marketing. We're joined by a guest who knows a thing or two about this situation. Joining us today is Matt Anthus, an award-winning digital strategist who has worked with Fortune 100 brands, members of Congress and federal agencies, launch for an aerial venture and more. He's done a lot of work in social impact. So I bet he understands the dynamics that happen when groups align for a reason and are fueled by a common purpose. In some cases, the great are good. In some cases, the motives are very self-serving, but we'll get into all that. Matt, tell us all about yourself. Well, good afternoon, pleasure to meet or be here today. And I think my background is one that's very, I would say eclectic. I started in the Clinton White House as a intern in Monica Lewinsky's intern class. And from there, I've grown in, I was in the Office of Political Affairs. I became a lobbyist that really focused on the intersections of federal marketing in the government and business. And that led me to a more, I would say, more focus on digital and marketing over the years, where I started my own business that was focused on micro-targeting cell phone IDs in advance of the 2016 presidential election. And then I really wanted to get back into kind of social impact and mission-based work. And I am now lead strategist of digital and lead the digital team at the Hatcher Group, where we focus on nonprofits, foundations, and government agencies, run large federal agency recruitment marketing campaigns, but also still have that entrepreneurial spirit where I'm involved in many ventures, including impactandpurpose.org, which is one that gives back in terms of mentor capital to founders, as well as a build where I founded called advocators.ai, which is leveraging micro-nano influencers and advocacy to really advance a cause based on affinities and tugging of heartstrings, and really to make sure that you have authentic trusted storytellers along the way. In addition, I'm a mentor of a tech stars, I'm from Stanford University's AI for Good, and I'll be launching hulikon.com, which is an AI community and conference starting this fall with a nod to the show Civil Con Valley. And fun. Well, thanks for being here, Matt. It sounds like you got a lot to throw at us for this conversation. The influencers are the art of this, the play of how technology plays into all day. It'll all come into play, I'm sure. Thanks for being here. So for those who don't know much about the stock market, I'll give you a crash course, we'll get through it quick. For those who do, we'll just give us a second. Investing one-on-one, stocks, a stock is simply a way of owning a small piece of a company. Normally, stock prices go up and down based on how well that company's doing. If they're selling products and making money and raking it in, stocks go up. If not, they don't. But meme stocks, what we're here to talk about today, it flipped that logic on its head. So a meme stock is when the internet, because they get excited and they get together as a group and there's people at the heart of it. They send a company's stock price soaring regardless of what the reality is for that company. So when we started talking about GameStop at the beginning, so GameStop was actually a real life with struggling in retail because video games were going digital. You didn't need stores so much anymore. But despite that, in 2021, GameStop's stock price jumped more than 30 times its value. In just a few days, because online groups told each other to buy a whole bunch and hold it at all costs. And they got a thrill out of it. And the stock did go, whoop, way up. And hedge funds, these are big money firms that had bet against GameStop. That's a stock market thing you can do. You can bet that the stock will go the other way. Lost billions when the stock price went up instead of down. So for once, it felt like a win for the little guy. And they beat Wall Street at its own game. And then AMC movie theaters happened again. They raised almost a billion dollars thanks to Meeb Stock Buyers, which gave the chain a second life post pandemic and brought excitement back to AMC and people back to the movies. So for those who got in on this early and this phenomenon, it wasn't just trading, it was rebellion. They were winning. And it was a way for social savvy people to use their collective resources to shake up the status quo. And there's a kind of anarchy at the center of it too. But whenever this happens and it keeps happening, so does the inevitable. So GameStop's value, every time their attention goes away, the value collapses within weeks and erases tens of billions of dollars in gains. The people that come in late and they get swept up in the excitement of it, they wind up losing because they time it wrong. You know, these are a lot of times, like I said, unsavvy investors, rinse and repeat over and over. A few early movers get all the gains, everyone else loses. And the companies that are caught in the middle, it's kind of a whiplash situation. So they get a brief moment of being saved. Hooray, we got a bunch of activity and money and attention in our company. And then instability, oh, it all went away. What do we do now? Because how do you run a company when your stock price doesn't reflect the actual reality? So let's start with you, Matt. What do you think about this, the meme stock phenomenon? You know, the power of social investors to get together and do something that has a real world implication? I think you really see how this mimics how influencers have worked in marketing over time. And you see it being a microcosm of that kind of ecosystem. And I think really, as you talked about, you know, a little bit about GameStop, when you look at Roaring Kitty, and you look at, you know, how Roaring Kitty was a YouTube and Reddit personality that really jumped into the fray here. I mean, he was able to drive this price up by really mobilizing individuals. Now, he was a personality at that point, one that was more established, but you can see oftentimes that a lot of individuals that are smaller can really reach their target audiences in mass and they, in volume, they amplify the entire message across the board. And you see this where the community has become kind of that distribution center, where you look at like the Reddit, you know, their subreddit Wall Street bets. And, you know, I mean, they were growing and growing and growing, and I think they had about 11 million members by early 2021. And they really used, you know, I would say the memes of Hodel and Diamond Hands and Rockets as kind of rallying cries, essentially, you know, becoming a decentralized influencer collective for these memes. So it's been one that's been community-driven and almost crowdsourced in a way that can boost it's the, you know, they're looking at it, the rising tide rises all ships, right? They're gonna all get in there, they're gonna boost it up, and then they're gonna exit, and they're gonna make the profit from it. And they're not looking at it as traditional investors with traditional investor terms, they're creating their own culture and terminology and ways of gathering and ways of thinking that are totally separate from what a traditional investor would do. 100%. And I think that what their focus on is, you know, they're using it as a mechanism for gains, right? For one, for, you know, being kind of at the epicenter of that kind of rise, but also they're making profits on this as well. And then they continue to move on to others and others and others, but it just shows how times have changed and how this used to be driven back in the day, you know, when penny stocks, you know, before the internet and calling and email or not even emails, letters were being written and people were, you know, getting amped up by these and really investing in these penny stocks and driving those up to the others would take advantage of it. It's just this to a new degree of where now social media has really been able to take, basically the center of a firestorm in terms of amplifying this message of pushing it even further. You know, when you see people with phones with cracked screens and you think, whoops, they weren't careful, well, that's something you can see on the outside. But what you can't see is how careful they're being with their online data, because whenever someone goes online without ExpressVPN, it could mean trouble like passwords and logins all out in the open. 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Are they victims? What's happening? Well, I mean, I think this is tricky, right? When I think about the position that a lot of companies are in here, I mean, I think a lot about like, what's the responsibility of the company? And look, companies aren't necessarily responsible for managing like who buys their stocks in general, right? But I think what this comes down to is more about communication and transparency and acting in an ethical manner, right? Like if you go to any company's webpage, especially like their CSR, ESG, they talk about like what we stand for as a company and being ethical and being an ethical leader in their space. And I think that's really what this is about, right? Whether it's, hey, this is a part of our good fortune or do we kind of fall into this? I think that's really what it comes down to is how are they communicating with their investors, whether they're savvy or not, whether this is my first time investing in stocks or not, I think that's really what it comes down to. So I think they don't necessarily need to protect the investor again, however, they may have gotten into the stock market and buying stock for that particular company. But I don't think that they should be taking advantage of people who may not fully understand the risks. And look, I understand that the onus is on the investor. Again, no matter how savvy you are in the market, you do need to understand that this is about risk, you need to understand what you're buying into. But I think that this is an opportunity for companies to really stand for what they believe in, right? And so if they're participating in the mean stocks is something that's gonna be really beneficial to the company, but it's disconnected from the fundamentals of who they are, then it's an opportunity for you to really live into that ethical leadership and say, okay, here's what's real, here's what's not. And there's a decision I think that companies have to make. And look, as I've talked about a lot in this space, the customer, the investor, the consumer, the employee is watching how companies show up. So again, I don't necessarily think it's about, is the company responsible in the sense of who's going to buy it or not and taking advantage. But I do think it comes down to again, how they're communicating, how they're showing up in this moment in time and just being really transparent about where they are as the company and what they stand for. Yeah, I love what you're saying there, Kadyra, because I do believe there is corporate responsibility by the company. And I think that the way that they communicate it is very key. They actually have to be somewhat, if you think about it, the executive leadership of a company such as GameStop, such as AMC, have to kind of be the adults in the room, right? They have to acknowledge what's going on and they need to not acknowledge it with brutal honesty to the new investors who are these folks, as well as their customers, which is a totally different talk track and their investors that have been in there for the long haul. Depending upon the company, the reason it may be attractive, GameStop, for example, is they were struggling. Let's just get real. So imagine your entire leadership team now has to be focused on, they should be focused on trying to preserve the integrity of the company, try to figure out how to have some growth strategies, taking care of the customers, grow that base. And now they've got this distraction, which is this surge of incoming investors, which is great, but it's not real, right? It's a one-time moonshot kind of thing. So for the company that's caught in the middle of this, we need them to be clear. We need them to say something like, we have to be clear to all of you, our stock price is currently disconnected from the reality of our business performance and we recognize this, right? Let's be honest. We plan to use this money and opportunity to pay down debt and fund our real turnaround if that's what they wanna do with it. And this will be a long journey. Like let's, you know, stocks always will be volatile, right? So recognizing that, managing those expectations and making it not feel like fraud, right? To be honest, but it feels like a little bit of a lie. And again, it's a bizarre internal morale problem as well because for employees, they're seeing their company's value skyrocket and that's exciting, but they're also worried because they've been dealing with it day by day. They've been part of the layoffs. They've seen what's going on. They've seen their market share shrink. They've seen their competitors grow. So I think that this is, you know, this is very much kind of a moment for the company that they are gonna have to stand up. And so when I say corporate responsibility, it's not just to these investors and not just to the board, but it's also to their employees and to their customers, right? You don't want to abandon, you know, you think about these meme stocks, that's not necessarily their customers. Sure, that's great. So, you know, you have to have a message. So what's, you know, Kadeera, like what's the message or Aaron or Matt, you know, what's the message to the customers? Like, what are you saying? Because they're like, yeah, you know, I've been going into GameStop and trying to sell back my, you know, my Wii games and I'm getting like $2. It doesn't seem like it's working to me and it seems like they're all going away. And, you know, those are the kinds of things that like the reality of what's going on in the business versus what's going on in these viral episodes is really challenging. And we've talked about this on this podcast, you know, a lot is these viral moments, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's amazing how this is specifically where it's seriously driving millions and millions of dollars. And then at the same time, you know, in less than two weeks time, an investor could lose their money, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a difference between companies that have, let's say a big public debacle and then they become a meme and then they have a financial impact or implication or a company that gets pursued by it. There's another category of investors we'll call them activist investors, right? Where they are something that they don't believe in from the company. So it's the corporate governance or their environmental policies or something. And then they get together and they say, we're gonna get a majority stake. And sometimes they do it. And they have a whole, you know, influential part of that company. These are companies that had nothing to do with it. You know, these are people that got together that said, hey, remember GameStop, let's do something with that. And like, you know, GameStop just happens to be the company they took, it could be anybody, right? But they picked something and they ran with it. Yeah. And I think all of that is spot on because really what you're seeing here is some of the businesses, I mean, they like it when their stock price goes up, of course, right? But at times like when does that become, you know, detrimental to the cause as Melissa, you were stating, you know, and I really think it's a matter of like that short term hype versus that longterm reality of where they are in the business. And that, you know, essentially hype does buy time, but it can't replace those fundamentals of the business. It can't, how much are they, you know, bringing in, you know, what's their profit margin? You know, are they laying off people, you know, and then the Bath & Beyond filed bankruptcy shortly thereafter. And so I think you're seeing, you know, this trend that continues where there's both winners and losers. The companies oftentimes are losers. And then individuals that are riding that train, those latecomers to the party, they're losing a lot of money as these things are collapsing because they think, you know, they have a fear of missing out that they're gonna jump on something at 23. It might be up from five. They think, all right, now it's gonna go up to 100. They're jumping on, but now it goes back down to five or zero and they don't have anything to show for it. So it's those types of things that people are playing this like a viral lottery. And that's where I think things are really changing a little bit. It's no longer pure investment in looking at those fundamentals. It's how can I make a quick buck, right? And how can I ride the train? Yeah. I think. Yeah, go ahead. Well, and I was just, you know, I think it's really interesting because we talk about, you know, kind of the sticking it to Wall Street and thinking about the short term versus long term. And Melissa, you had mentioned the employee. And I think that is, you know, a stakeholder that doesn't get talked about enough and definitely doesn't get talked about enough kind of in this whole movement, right? So like, yes, while this is a movement that's like, look, we're gonna stick it to the big guys. We're gonna, you know, stick it to Wall Street and kind of be anti-Wall Street. In a way though, there's a significant risk to the little guy, so to speak, who is that frontline worker potentially, right? Because now, you know, we are talking about those layoffs. We're talking about budget cuts. We're talking about added stress, right? Like if the company suddenly becomes a media target, right? And has to scramble to meet these unrealistic expectations or, you know, we're now shifting the focus away from the business and kind of getting mixed up in market drama. And I think the other thing we have to think of is just in the way that social media can kind of create this frenzy and you're now a part of mean stocks, one bad social media post that goes viral as a result of, you know, I lost my money and because of this or whatever, you're in a deeper hole than you might have been before this mean stock, you know, movement. So I think, you know, as we're talking about, you know, folks coming together and, you know, being the collective and kind of being a part of a movement, I think we do have to think about that employee, again, that is sometimes forgotten, but it's absolutely kind of the center of all of this that kind of, you know, is going to be on the front line, so to speak, that's gonna have a significant impact, not if, but when this all kind of the bottom falls out of it. Going online without ExpressVPN is like driving without a seatbelt. You might be careful, but if something risky happens, wouldn't you want to feel more secure? Well, every time you connect to public Wi-Fi, it's like you're not wearing a seatbelt because your data is vulnerable and valuable, like your logins and credit cards, people want them, and learning how to steal your data is easy, but guess what? So is protecting it. ExpressVPN creates a secure encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet. Whether you're on a phone, a laptop, or tablet, you can rest easy wherever you go. And when I say easy, I mean easy. You open the app, click a button, and that's it. Look, hackers got a hack, but it's important to me that you don't fall victim to them. This one's obvious. If you could protect your data anywhere you go for about 12 cents a day, why wouldn't you? So buckle up and secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com.flashfixed. That's expressvpn.com.flashfixed to find out how you can get up to four extra months. Expressvpn.com.flashfixed. I read somewhere, and I think this is really kind of, it makes a lot of sense, but can the company be worse off? From a meme surge, and I think you just addressed that, Kadyra very eloquently, but I love saying that the hangover can be much worse than the party. So now all of a sudden, you have this new army of very vocal investors who are emotionally, because it's an emotional thing. It's like, you mentioned Matt Fomo, want to miss out, so you want to be part of this. And they are now financially invested in it. Now they think they're going to get rich quickly, but their expectations are based on hype, and based on maybe the social media cloud around this, not really the business fundamentals. Like they weren't investing in GameStop or AMC based on business fundamentals, because if they were, they would have seen that they were struggling, right? And so when that stock inevitably corrects, you face the tsunami of anger, right? You said, and accusations at the very core of what that company is, and that core is the employees, right, and the operations, and the product, and the marketing team, and all the things there. And so they're the ones having to face that backlash that they didn't even create to begin with. So it's really hard when you're in that position to be like, we want to ride the wave, right? You want to ride the wave, but that's again, where I say, that the company's need, the leadership team needs to really think of this as like a one-time windfall, not as generating annual revenue, you mentioned this too. Like there are KPIs, OKRs that a company has. This is not one of them where you're saying, okay, we're going to go viral, memestock, right? And that's how we're going to get this infusion of cash, because that's going to happen once in your lifetime. And then you've got to figure out what you're going to do with that, right? So you have to prepare, when you're lucky enough to be part of that firestorm, and actually get the money, and the investment, and all of the, from a marketing perspective, Aaron, you understand this, like you're on every webpage, or on every site, you're being asked to be interviewed, that's great. But then at the end of the day, what have you done to actually secure your position as a company, and as a brand, and as a product, and as a service, and making sure that you are taking care of those customers that have been loyal to you, for way before this all happened. So again, you want to grow your customer base, but I think that this is a dilemma that is like one of those double-edged swords, right? Like it would be great to be a part of it. I'd be happy to be one of those investors, you know? But I think you have to really put a lot of thought into what's happening to that company on the inside. What if we don't care about the company, and we like, let's make a quick buck, let's do this. So there's four of us, we've got some influence. Matt, what are the ingredients we need to make this happen? Well, I think first to start that off is, without factoring in the company, you're already seeing this, this is crypto, right? This is what's happening in the crypto industry. You know, there are no fundamentals to those businesses, essentially, to those coins, and those coins are being driven up, mostly on social media, through marketing, because people don't understand it. It's the same type of thing. So I think the core here is really understanding, how do you break through the noise? How do you understand who's real, who's not? What is authenticity, and who can be trusted? And it's hard because you are seeing, in this area now, an evolution, and that evolution has become where, a mommy blogger that has 2,500 followers and a 94% engagement rate, might be out there pushing this to her core group, and that person would be a great, typical micro-nano influencer, because of their engagement, but now they're using that in a way that may not be for good. And they're using that to drive up their own interest or to drive this up, but it shows that there are people that can utilize their influence within their core groups that could benefit from this. And I think they're starting to see this. They're starting to see, and it's how some of this stuff was glorified. I mean, you see things like dumb money that was on Netflix about GameStop, and it just kind of brings it to a hold where it makes it more of a pop culture thing, where it seems like it's okay, and it's part of our normal, instead of buying a lottery ticket, we're just gonna go on and we're gonna bet on these four stocks, and we're gonna do that on these cryptos, and we're gonna see where we go in our portfolio, over time, if we do right, is gonna make 2,000%. And I think that that's the mindset, and it's like, how do you educate and how do you utilize kind of this type of marketing, the influencer style marketing to educate people and let them know kind of what the facts are, because that's part of what's being lost through this whole situation currently, right? Because the information's coming from trusted reliable sources, but that's not what they're looking at. They're looking at the subreddits. They're looking at, you know, YouTube's. They're looking at other things where a lot of these influencers are promoting their item. Yeah, I would also fathom, I mean, I think that are they actually trusted resources? Like, they're influencers, that's get real. So at the heart of it, exactly what you were talking about, Matt, is we're talking about people, not traders, right? So from a customer perspective, you know, my advice would be to ourselves if we were these investors, so to speak, is you need to get caught up less in the finance of it, because that's not what this is about. This is more about psychology, Kadyra, right, of the mind, right? Like FOMO, like wanting to be part of something, and self-preservation. So if you're looking at this, you know, from an investor perspective, or you've already junked in, I mean, you really have to think about, are you really investing or are you gambling, right? That's really what, you know, you have to be brutally honest. Like there's a world of difference between investing in something that you believe has long-term implications, or even short-term, you know, a year or two, right? But this, you should never confuse social media-driven trade with a long-term investment. The rules are different. Who you should be listening to is probably different. One's more strategic, allocation of capital. The other is a tactical bet on what you think is crowd psychology, right? It's like, okay, let's do this, you know, I believe in this. And so I'm not saying that that's a bad thing, it's just you should recognize what's really honestly out there. And then, you know, like I said, protecting your downside, like your life depends on it because it does. So like you should, if you're putting some money out there and investing in that, that should be money that you're willing not to have. And that was some advice I got from a very good friend of mine. You know, I've been in a lot of startups and I always laugh about, you know, when you get equity, it's like monopoly money, start up, you don't know what's gonna happen, right? And it's not gonna pay your bills, it's equity. And I was leaving a company and had the ability to exercise some shares, exercise some of my monopoly money. And she made a very good point to me. She's like, well, you're gonna have to pay for that, whatever, for however many. So she's like, if you have that money, just to like never see again, then go for it. And I was, I had never really thought of it that way. Cause she's like, there's a good chance that, you know, even though you put your heart and soul into the company and you have all the faith in, I still do in that company, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's company is gonna make it, right? And so you exercising those shares, it's really could be monopoly money. Well, and for some people it is, for some people, whether it's a few hundred or a few thousand or more, more than that, and it's sitting in their account and they have Robinhood on their phone and then someone tells them, you know, hurry up, you better do this. Whether it's stocks or crypto or NFTs, what happened to those, you know, people have jumped on this bandwagon and I just don't know, are we just trick or tear, are we just like wired that way as people, as humans? Like, are we just susceptible or is it, what's happening? Like, yeah. I mean, again, I think, you know, what we're saying or we've been saying for the last, you know, several minutes that we've been talking is, the one keeps sticking out to me is like the shared responsibility, right? So as we've talked about, you know, there's this shared responsibility, the investor, again, no matter how experienced you are or not, you have to understand what you're doing here. Again, social media, I always say, look, I love social media, it's not real. It's the highlight reel, it's people having the time of their lives, it's, it's influential. And so, you know, again, we know that everyone is leveraging it, but we also have to, you know, at least do our homework and be smart enough. I think to Melissa's point, to understand what you're really getting into. And then from the company side, you know, we kind of talked about that earlier. I do think, and I will go back to kind of the company side because, you know, that's kind of how I'm always thinking about things. I do actually think there's an opportunity for companies to lean in on this a little bit more. But I think like everything else that, you know, we've been talking about, whether it's these viral moments or what have you, I think it's obviously not being performative but being authentic. And Matt, you talked about that, the word authenticity and trust has come up a couple of times. And I think that is going to make all the difference. I don't necessarily know if the wave of meme stocks will go away anytime soon. I mean, it'll probably evolve into something else because, you know, things change in the blink of an eye because of social media. But I think there's an, like, this is for companies that leverage this and lean into this. This could be a great storytelling opportunity. And, you know, whether that is a storytelling opportunity around their mission and values. Melissa, you talked about at the top of the hour, you know, just being really honest about the condition that the company is in, right? I think that more than anything, especially when we think about from like a CSR and ASG perspective and, you know, listening is so important to that consumer, that customer, that investor, that employee, your stakeholders are looking for honesty and that transparency. And so it's not a secret, right? If the company is headed down the drain and suddenly, you know, has become a part of this viral moment or become a part of this meme stock movement, leverage that in the storytelling. You know, we've seen, there's been one or two examples of where, you know, the company was actually able to kind of dig themselves out of it. So like, the goal here is not necessarily to ride the wave for clicks and then, okay, we're kind of back to where we started from. But like, this is an opportunity if you really leverage that storytelling in this moment in time to build trust with the people who are actually paying attention. Yeah, like again, some people who are gonna be a part of the meme stock movement with a company, again, as we've talked about, really have no particular interest in the company, they're just there to make a quick buck, fine, I'm not gonna fault them either. But the people who matter, the people who are actually gonna be there for the long term, the people who are actually interested in seeing if this company can turn itself around, use this, use this moment to actually like do something meaningful for the company. So I think if there was an opportunity for companies to kind of lean in, this would be it. That's what that might look like. I love that. I think that like, I'm gonna steal from you, Kadera, cause I know you talk about this, but like, even, I mean, having a playbook, companies having a playbook for these particular situations, yeah, apparently, right? They find themselves in this with a rational playbook that can kind of keep them very focused. So what they need to do is strengthen their company first, experiment later. It could, for example, mandate that like 50% of this flood of investment cash could be used to pay down their debts. Another 25% could be used to secure an emergency fund, and another 25% could be aligned for innovative, focused, strategic initiatives that are aligned with their current business plan, right? Their existing long-term plan. And then measure that, right? Measure how that's working. What is their, what are their targets and not just focusing on the stock price, because that again, is not indicative of what they're trying to do as a company, but it forces the leadership team and the company to really use that windfall to build real lasting value and resilience, rather than getting kind of swept into the moment and not, and wasting it. Like that's the biggest thing, is like if they waste it, what a terrible thing, right? It's kind of like you win the lotto and then you waste, you spend it all and you're back to zero. I think that they can emerge, I think companies can emerge from like this chaos that's caused by mean stocks. Healthier, right? And more stable and turn it into something that is a legitimate second chance, right? A legitimate second chance. And that would be amazing. And that's amazing for the company. It's amazing for the investors and it's amazing for the customers. So it kits all three of them. And I think, Kadyra, you just, you nailed it when you brought that up. Yeah, I mean, I think Melissa, what you're, what you just basically kind of put with a bow on it is like, harness this energy for good, right? Like, you know, I always talk about like with exception, there's a couple of exceptions of like, I don't know if you can come back from that. But like, you know, this is an example of like the energy where communities are kind of rallying together and we're seeing a lot of that, right? On a number of levels, companies need to be huddled together. Their leadership team should be huddled together thinking about how they can harness this energy for good, right? The attention is real. It shows that people are connected, even in a moment, maybe varying degrees, a feeling connected to the company, right? Even if it's in the stock market, even if they may not know as much about the company as like your diehard customer or consumer. And y'all know how big I am on like the opportunity to listen. I think companies can like learn so much just by listening and engaging with, you know, in this case, even that unsavvy investor. So like, again, if companies, it's not necessarily about chasing mean status, right? Like fine, whatever. But like, do the work when these moments happen of attempting to build something deeper, something real, something lasting, right? Like it becomes more than just a distraction because what's gonna happen, we already know it, we see it, the hype's gonna fade. But again, if you can capture this moment, and I'm just talking to any company out there, whatever company is gonna be the next meme stock, you know, part of the meme stock movement, if you can capture this moment in time, not just in terms of turning the business around, I mean, this could be case studies for days, you know, you're now talking about, you know, building kind of your momentum internally and your morale internally with your employees. I mean, there's so many things here that can happen if you just kind of capitalize, the lack of a better word on what is happening here. But I think unfortunately what happens too often is like, oh, we're part of this meme stock movement. Okay, and it goes. Caught in the wake of it, yeah. That's exactly right. I love that, Kadeera. So, and that's what companies can do with this moment. Matt, what could, if you're a would-be investor and you feel disenfranchised and then you become part of a community and now all of a sudden you're aligned on it. Like what could these meme stock investors do for good? Well, I mean, I think part of it in hearing what you all are saying too plays into this a little bit is I think there's a little bit too of a generational component here, where you're seeing, you know, a lot of the, I would say Gen Z, Gen Alpha, like really more focused on the cause marketing component of it versus the, you know, pump and dump style approach of millennials, et cetera, that really were the key to this. And is that an evolution, you know, or is this a new norm? And, you know, if you look at it moving toward that more cause marketing piece, you know, I think there's instances where, you know, businesses that are focused on things that can be impactful to the economy, impactful to the world, whether it's corporate responsibility or whether it's other things to support things like press freedom, et cetera, you know, they're gonna be positioned to see their increase in their price, but that's also gonna have an impact because it's actually building that can actually lead to that impact, right? So how can they look at it from that standpoint of getting it out of, you know, and I'm not necessarily talking, you know, the bed, bath and be-ause of the game stops, right? It's a little different there, but there's other organizations that are focused on these other pieces, like, you know, we saw Next Digital in Hong Kong in 2020 in the protesters that, you know, basically bought the shares to support the freedom of the press. And that is something that you are seeing, you know, in other areas, whether it's, you know, focus on green technology or it's a focus on other things. Now they're seeing like, what's that future impact and how can that develop? So I think it's taking, you know, some of those, I would say, areas of focus for the companies and articulating those a little bit more in aligning those with, you know, certain generations that are looking to be investors. So they get those cause-based investment dollars coming in that are still using it as a quote-unquote lottery ticket because that might be the mentality and approach they're taking, but they're doing it for something they seriously care about and then they're gonna be actually implementing some of those actions themselves to help benefit the growth of that company. You know, and there are financial institutions, Matt, that are doing that and I think you obviously know that like Fidelity has like their social, you know, investment category or whatever. But what about, do you think there's, you know, responsibility on Robinhood or Fidelity, for example, or Schwab in serving their investors to implement like something to help them understand the risk that they're applying to this? Like, I, you know, I'm not saying that they shouldn't, it's their money. They should be able to trade it as they wish and invest as they wish, but do you think when a stock like a GameStop happened, right, you know, should they, you know, they kind of put those governors on, you know, the stock market or whatever, should there be something like that where it says, okay, there's a, you know, a 24 hour cooling off period and then there's like a some sort of, I don't know, commentary about like why, right? Because the stock has gone up for no apparent reason and by a hundred percent and there's not been any company press releases or any new, you know, what do you think about like that? I think that people have unfortunately, you know, they overlook those things and they've become numb to them because if you think about it, you know, for how long, you know, cigarettes may cause cancer, right? But people still continue buying cigarettes, right? And you look at, you know, a lot of, you look at all the drug commercials on TVs, how many side effects and problems do they say? But it's in the softer voice while the rest of the people are singing on the commercial and it seems like all flowery and great, but you know, this drug may kill you. And I think that there's, people aren't always looking at the negatives or the consequences. And I think they always overlook those because they, many of them are wearing rose colored glasses. They're looking to the future and they're looking at, how can I take a shortcut to wealth? And I think that that's where a lot of that generational piece comes into play. There's a lot of individuals are looking at, you know, they want to have it all, but they don't want to work. And so how can I get to that level with, you know, by doing this and short circuiting the process, because it just takes one, I can invest in 10 of these and it's going to take one that, you know, is that quote unquote rocket ship because, you know, that's what they saw online. And now all of a sudden, you know, they're raking in it and they're buying their Lambo, like, you know, they're showing it on social media, like they all do. So I mean, it's become pop culture in this part of this Main Street consciousness, right? And I think that's where we are today. And it's really a struggle is like, can we go back? How do you educate? And, you know, to your point, like, yeah, I mean, it would be great if Robin Hood and Fidelity would be ones that were out advocating for that and sharing like the advice of what people should be looking for. But for them, you know, especially like a Robin Hood, I mean, that's a cost per action for them. So they, when more people are in there buying and selling, that's what they want. So they, you know, they don't want to cut off their, you know, their noses, like their face. Yeah. I hate to say it, we've got to fix this situation. Good one. Yeah, it is. So here's what I've got for us. So if you are, let's start with the investors. If you are a, it would be a meme stock investor instead of pumping up the stock of the day, stock of the moment. Think about, you know, still pull your resources, pull your alliances together, but think about the economic impact of what you're doing. Consider that there might be repercussions or actual detriments to the companies that are involved and use the same type of motives and tactics to do something that actually is, might be cause oriented or aligns with companies that you believe in, but use it to create stability for those companies and help them flourish and grow and prosper and not just deplete their resources. And if you can use those same types of movements and tactics and get the right charismatic individuals involved, you could actually do some good there for everyone involved, not just for yourself. So that's the investor side. If you are on the company side, always of course have transparency with your customers and with the community at large, the culture at large, but especially if something like this happens, if you benefit from it, use that unexpected when fall for good, use your platform for good and make a clear and transparent plan about what you're gonna do with those unexpected gains and put it to good use, actually do something that's beneficial and don't depend on it or expect it again or do anything that is going to be longterm with any kind of expectation that this is gonna happen again. If you wind up worse off because of it, that's I guess a problem. We're gonna have to figure that one out too, but hopefully if we start shifting the same types of motivations and inspiration that happens to companies that have nothing to do with any of this, to causes and make those, or companies that are cause driven and use it to benefit those companies, then the companies that are casualties or beneficiaries it won't be as much of a thing anymore. And if you're a company, you could proactively reach out to, like-minded investors, even small ones and say, come over here. Look, you wanna do this type of thing, don't do it to cause chaos, do it for, you know, take full your resources, we want you here and here's why we want you and here's what we're gonna do with you and here's what we're gonna do with your investment and we're gonna use it responsibly, we're gonna use it to carry out the missions, all the things you believed in us for, we're gonna do it and we need you. So a company could be, I guess, correct, you haven't seen it yet, not the bad effects of this, but the good effects of it. If we do all this, Melissa, do we fix the situation? Well, I think we fix the situation in the sense that there is a realization that if you're the one who's participating in the meme stocks, you need to take care of yourself, right? So you need to understand what your risks are and it's always a great dopamine hit to win, something like this. And I have to tell you, I'm a gambler, so I love this topic because I totally, I'm all about this. And I do think that companies need to use a very rational, logical strategy and accept the windfall with gratitude and as a blessing and do what they can with it to make sure that they don't waste the second chance. And then the most important thing, which I think Kadira continues to always hammer us on is communication, authenticity, transparency. And I would say it's pretty threefold. It needs to be with the investors, the company, with internally as well as the customers. And I think if you focus that way, you could actually make this a win situation where you were scraping the bottom before as a company and now you're actually on the rise. So I love this for, and I don't think it's gonna go, I mean, to that point, I don't think it's going away. I think this is gonna continue to be part of the culture and part of the architecture of finance for years coming forward. Thanks, Melissa. Kadira, do we help companies and would-be mean stock investors find a better way around this? I think we're off to a good start. We're off to a good start. We're off to a good start. I mean, I would echo everything Melissa said, everything that you said in the wrap-up. Companies should be leaning in in a very authentic way. Don't shy away from it. Your customer, the consumer is not stupid. So don't try to pretend like you're kind of caught off guard by what's happening. Lean in, tell the story. Here's how we got here. Here's why we got here. Here's how we're gonna take advantage of this moment. Here's where we're going. Start there. Melissa called this out earlier, and yes, I'm always talking about it, but I think a playbook. This could be us. Most companies should be thinking about this. This could be us. And if it is us, how are we prepared to do things differently so that we don't maybe end up in the situation of a company who had this amazing experience from the mean stock movement and then is no longer around? So what are we going to do differently? So I think if we have those couple of things going on, we are off to a really good start. I like the playbook because it's what all of us do when we think about winning mega millions. Like we've all figured it out. Like I'm serious, but we've all figured it out. So yeah. Yeah, the same thing. Our playbook keeps getting bigger, LA. That's the dark, yes it does. Matt, take us home. Did we fix the situation? I think we're getting there, right? And I think there has to be a focus on the fundamentals. And I think that where we really have to look at is how can we get people to not buy into the hype and focus on those fundamentals? But regardless of what happens, there's always going to be winners and losers, right? So it's going to be whether it's somebody promoting a meme stock or whether it's just a regular company itself that is inflating its value, inflating who they are, right? Because you're always see early movers, influencers and the founders, you know, they're making millions off of these things. But those that are late comers that are coming into it, those small investors, they're losing their savings, especially when those prices collapse. So how do you help navigate that with individuals to understand that impact as you guys have spoken about? And I think again, this really shows how this does mirror influencer marketing and that viral lottery we've talked about where a few campaigns can really explode, but the majority of them just are flat or plateau. And I think too, we look at it from a standpoint of, meme investing shouldn't just be the finance piece and it can be that influence and cause marketing that we talked about, how can that be done at scale? Or then we can use that approach for good for really integrating that into kind of our culture and the generational approach to investing in general. And I think just to cap it off, it's really that meme stocks really show us that markets can move like a typical market campaign or influencer campaign. They're powered by trust, authenticity, community, and those memes that can often be taking off in pop culture. And as we talked about early, it's the fear of missing out and that FOMO aspect. And if we can get them to focus on the fundamentals, instead of those items, we're gonna be in a much better place. I like that a lot. Thank you, Matt. So the next time it happens, then this will happen again. Start from the beginning of this episode and everyone can learn from everything we brought up today. Thank you, Melissa. Thank you, Deca-Dira, Matt. Thank you for lending your expertise and perspective. And before we cut you loose, where can our listeners find you? You can find me on LinkedIn under Matt Anthis or you can check out advocators.ai. Great, really appreciate it. And thanks again for being here. To everyone listening, thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for joining us on this episode of We Fixed It, You're Welcome. If there's a company or situation you think needs fixing, head over to WeFixedItPod.com. WeFixedItPod.com and send it our way. And we might just tackle it in a future episode. And if you like today's episode, keep the momentum going. 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