How a Former Pharmacist Turned Real Estate Investor Saved Her Project by Facing the Hard Conversation She’d Been Avoiding EP 88

If you have had to have an uncomfortable conversation and you are worried about losing the relationship, having to start over from scratch with one of the people on your team, or you're avoiding that conversation altogether because you don't want bad things to happen, today's conversation is going to be for you. My guest today, Sandra McEwen, has recently navigated some challenging conversations and come through it with really inspiring results. So I'm going to share that with you today. Hey, you leader, entrepreneur, business owner, solopreneur, whatever you call yourself. We know you're a visionary business builder, wealth seeker, looking to combine a passion for doing good with leading consciously. It's time to shift from a traditional focus of pure wealth accumulation to one that integrates well-being and fulfillment. You're here for a purpose and it's time to shine your light. So here we go. Welcome back to the Conscious Edge podcast. I'm your host, Alicia St. Germain, founder of the Conscious Edge, where I help women entrepreneurs expand what they can hold emotionally, energetically, financially, so they can build businesses that are both sustainable and fulfilling. Sandra, I'm so glad you agreed to come on the podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having me. This is fun. So Sandra is one of my clients and we went through in the process of coaching, we do something called testing where we test out some beliefs that we have or big assumptions as I call them. Big assumptions are what you believe unconsciously to be true about the world, and it drives your thoughts, feelings, and behavior. And so Sandra was in the testing phase where we take intentional action to change our behavior in a very calculated way. And we do that in order to see how true our assumptions really are. So we're going to talk a little bit about that. But before we dive into this conversation that you had that was super uncomfortable that you were dreading, and it was causing months of delays in your project, I first want people to know a little bit about who you are. So what is it that you do in the world? What's your thing? Yeah, sure. So let's see, I'm married. I have two children that are college age. And I live in Tampa, Florida. And I've been a real estate investor for about four years now. And my market is in Augusta, Georgia right now. So I used to invest in the Atlanta area and now primarily in Augusta. And I kind of fell into real estate through my dad. I don't know if you've heard this story, but yeah, my dad actually dabbled in real estate or kind of had a side hustle going. And he used to talk to me about it all the time. And I just didn't have any interest in listening to it. It was like, I just was always like, okay, why are you doing that? And he would just say, you guys can come live with me. I have land here that you could build a house on and I have properties. And it was like, I didn't understand it. And I really just never listened to him too much about it. So he ended up passing away in 2020. And I was involved with his properties at that point. So I had to get involved. He lived in Georgia. And he had quite a bit going on there. So getting involved with that remotely and dealing with all the things like contractors and tenants. And I went through an eviction and there was a partnership and we were splitting land up and it was just like an explosion of things going on. And I had been a pharmacist for over 20 years. And so I ended up quitting my job to kind of manage this stuff that he had going on. And so it was for an estate and I had two younger sisters. So I was the oldest. So I was managing this estate and like, what do you do when you get properties and you don't know anything about real estate? You just position them to sell them. So that's like what we were doing. We were just like, okay, we got to sell the estate and we split the money. Like that's what we're going to do. I didn't know anything else. So, but so I had to renovate the properties a little bit because they were like, he had the right idea, but there was a lot of problems. He wasn't able to keep up with them. So there was a lot that I had to do to get them sold. So I'm thinking that I'm doing real estate now. I'm like, oh, I'm doing this. So my sister had said, why don't we start our own business and start investing in real estate? So I said, that's an amazing idea because I was ready to do something different. I was done with pharmacy. And so we did just that. We opened up our own business and we bought a house in Atlanta, renovated that. And I had no idea what I was doing. I still didn't understand investing in real estate, what that even meant financially or any type of return or how it was going to bring me an income or long-term wealth. I didn't understand that. But I was doing it and it was a long process of about a year. Put a tenant in there, ended up almost going through an eviction with that tenant. And then just ended up re-evaluating things and kind of felt that like this, what am I doing here? This is a very involved process. And I don't know that am I reaching some goal with this is going to take forever. Like I'm in my 50s. This is a very slow process. So my sister kind of took on more of a passive role at this point. And I said, okay, I think we need to switch things up, switch markets, switch strategies. And I got involved with another group called Wire. And I learned about midterm rentals. and I was going to some conferences about multifamily. And so I just put my blinders up and decided to switch to the Augusta market and do just that, like do multifamily and layer midterm rental strategy where we furnish the rentals, small units and put traveling professionals in there. And I love that idea. Yeah. It was going to speed things up a little bit. Well, there's so many things to unpack about your story. I actually, it's so funny because we get right into the work. Like, I'm not really sure I knew all of that of how you got started in real estate, despite it being a year and a half. We met three years ago, this time in Orlando at a conference. We happened to sit next to each other at lunch. I remember you and your sister being there and then connected about nine months later, I think. And that's when you were like, I need some coaching. I need some help. So I didn't realize how you ended up in it, which is interesting because I talk about and recently on the podcast and part of, I just finished up on the podcast last week, we aired the episode that I did on relational capacity, which was about how we set rules, like what are rules, what are expectations, what are boundaries, and how do we hold people accountable in a compassionate way. And then during this time, you also came to our coaching calls and you had this amazing story and how your test went. And I was like, this is the perfect episode to air right after as the example of what has happened. But as part of that series, I talk about we can intentionally choose to expand our capacity, which is what you're doing inside of coaching. But then life will also expand our capacity by sending us events and things and circumstances that happen that are beyond our control. And that responsibility is put on us like it did when your father passed away. And then you just rose to the occasion, which really speaks to the type of person that you are, that you persevere and you have this DNA to like, get through things that are hard. And not only did you just get through it and go, okay, good. I got through it. I'm done. But you took it as a calling of an opportunity that was available to you to move out of a career that no longer satisfied you. Right. Yeah. And definitely, I think what you're saying about like, what's inside of me or what's inside of somebody else. I mean, I always knew I was very motivated inside, but you can be motivated and still have so many things holding you back. And like, that's, what's great about this program is kind of working through those and even identifying what they are, like why you have them. But then once you see why you have them and we work through the program and you kind of test them out, that's what really kind of starts to open up the doors and like, there's a highway to do all kinds of things. So, yeah. What was the big assumption for you? What was the thing that was limiting your capacity, your ability to expand? I know you came into it kind of stalled out, unable to buy any more buildings. So your strategy is midterm rentals that you... So basically, midterm is defined as what? For anybody who doesn't know that's listening. Sure. Midterm rental is 30-day stay or more. Mm-hmm. And it's usually people that are just traveling for work or college, internships, industry coming into work and staying somewhere comfortably for longer than 30 days. Yeah. 30 to maybe 90 days or so or 30 to nine months or longer. Yeah. I mean, I've had some people stay a year. OK. So, yeah, it just depends. But they're furnished. They're not traveling with their stuff. No. I don't know if you know this, but I used to be a respiratory therapist. And I traveled and stayed in these furnished places when I was in my 20s. Ah, nice. So that was before everyone else started doing midterm rentals It was really just like these luxury apartments that Yeah like corporate rentals Yep Oh wow Nice There always all these common connections They've always been there. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of connections. Definitely. My experience in real estate started because my mom was in real estate. And I also went to college, became the respiratory therapist because I didn't want to do what my mom did. So very similar paths that we've had. Yes. Yeah, it is. It really is. The thing with my dad is very interesting because I'm now doing what he was doing. I'm trying to leave a legacy for my kids. And so, yeah, it's fascinating. When you start getting into that part of real estate that you can pass it on and create wealth for the future generation. Yeah. I love talking about that stuff. Well, and it's so funny too, because we're resistant sometimes and we think our parents don't know. And then you get this new wisdom that comes in later in life. And you're like, oh, maybe my parent did know. Maybe they didn't do it in the best way or they didn't impart the wisdom on the best way or whatever the situation might be. But then it's like you get it as you get older. Yeah. He didn't quite get the whole picture, but he was doing it. He was definitely on the right track. And it's not like there was millions or anything. I mean, we had student loan debt or tax debt or all of that, but it kind of got us started into real estate and helped us all individually in a big way. I mean, it's amazing to get that help at that stage of life. I mean, could be much later would have been better but just saying like it is just really like it's a lot of foresight to be doing that like for your kids and then maybe for their kids and yeah but you do have to reach beyond like the generation like you have to incorporate your kids in a way too so like my son's getting involved with it he worked for me this summer this past summer and And he had a light bulb moment too, where he all of a sudden was like, well, wait a minute, what do you own? And like, you have, show me a picture. And I started showing him pictures of some of on Airbnb. And he's like, no way, I didn't know you had this. I said, I tried to show you before, but you weren't, you didn't, yeah, you weren't in the right frame of mind. Like you're busy with other things. And so, yeah, that's really cool. It's neat. Okay. So then you had several properties and then you started to hit a wall and you found yourself struggling to buy more properties. Yeah. I was in 2023, I bought the two properties, refinanced the house in Atlanta, bought the two properties in Augusta and small multifamily. And that was a shocking experience doing all of that out of state and self-managing. So furnishing, putting it all up, getting tenants, getting a team, handyman, contractors, cleaners, assistants. And it took me a while to get through that. And I mean, it was hard in the beginning, for sure. I was literally scared for so long. And then finally, you kind of level up and you're like, okay, this is moving along. I'm good. And I started thinking again, what else can I do in real estate to kind of help supplement my income or give me more return? And that's when I kind of got into tax strategy and started 2024. I spent a lot of time stabilizing the properties, but also just really focused on real estate professional status and cost segregation and all of that. And that was amazing. I was like, this is, then my husband was like, wait, what are you doing? And then he was excited because we're offsetting his income for taxes. So you just said a couple of terms that some of the listeners are not going to know what those mean. So cost segregation and some of the tax strategies, the real estate professional status, simply explained, what does that mean? So real estate professional status is part of the tax code. It's quite complicated, but in a nutshell, if you're a full-time real estate investor, or you have another real estate profession that you're doing, and you do it essentially full-time, you can claim that status. And if you own properties, you can utilize them to do what's called a cost segregation. And you depreciate the properties in a shorter period of time. Like in the first year, you can do a big chunk. And then you can deduct that. And that's a huge savings on your income. And it's not just your income on your properties. It's your spouse's income, their active income. So real estate is generally passive and passive losses offset passive income. But when you do it in this way, it becomes active losses and then you can offset active income. And so it's a little complicated. You wouldn't be able to do it if you had a W-2 full time. And so it's something you could look into if you're very involved and you're doing real estate the majority of the time. Right. And you have rentals. Yeah. And it's more for my people who are like not in real estate and they're like, wait, what does that mean? So although I think there are some real estate investors that don't know about these things. So thank you for explaining that. And essentially, for you, I remember you went through a period of time where you were really frustrated because what it took from you to be able to claim or prove really your status as a real estate professional was kind of taxing for you. And then when you found out how much it was going to save you in paying taxes, you're like, okay, I'm on board. This is now my job. And I'm going, because there was a monetary value attached to the effort that you had to put in. Yeah. I think that you hit the nail on the head. It was so incredible that, I mean, it's okay to have that job. It's worth it. It was good. It was definitely eye-opening and might as well use that option if it's there and available to me. So it was super frustrating because I'm like part of the program is working through some of your personal issues. And one of my challenges is perfectionism and trying to do a good job at documenting your hours and all of that was draining on me because I was trying to document and I wanted to make sure I did it the right way. And there's people out there telling you a million different ways to do it. And it's one of those things where you're not going to know it all. And you just have to kind of, you have to log your hours and you have to be prudent and do it properly, but you got to cut it off at some point. It can't be extreme. And I was like, I'm taking pictures of emails and putting the evidence in there and listening to podcasts about the process. And it was making me a little crazy. I'm not going to lie, but I had to get past that. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting how our big assumptions, right? So your big assumption was like, if I don't do it perfectly, I make a mistake, I miss something, bad things would happen. Right. If things fall apart, I lose control, I lose money, I'm not going to be considered capable. Incapable. I could be incapable or useless and not successful. And not successful. Yeah. So when you're risking that, when you're risking being considered incapable and you're in by nature, you said at the beginning, I'm a very driven person. I know I've got like a lot inside of me. And then when you're worried about not being seen as that, it can actually cause you to underperform is essentially what was happening. So in this process, you started to work to shift your mind around how perfect does it really need to be? Yeah. What does it mean? That's a story of my life, actually. I'm not even kidding. I mean, I've had to really, because I was a pharmacist too. And maybe I already was like that. But then when you're a pharmacist, there is no room for error. And it's all day. it's long hours on your feet and you're kind of, you get used to just double checking, verifying, verify, and you want it to be all perfect. And then you're like, okay, it's good. Yeah. And I wanted to have that good feeling. It's good. Because what's the worst thing that could happen? It's pretty bad. Like I could get audited. I could have to pay back a ton more money and penalties and there could be a lot of loss there and it could involve my husband, anything like that. But I think that, yeah, not taking it, everything so seriously. And you said it's part of my job and that wasn't one thing that was like a light bulb moment for me. This is just part of my job and I just have to do it and move on and not constantly overthink the process. It's not going to be perfect and no one's going to expect that anyway. Right. And I love that because oftentimes there's parts of what we do as entrepreneurs that it doesn't feel good. And that's what we're going to get into too, is this hard conversation that you had is it, it doesn't feel good. There's parts of entrepreneurship. We go into it. We like want to follow this passion and we want to have all this like magical freedom and everything, but there are parts of it that are just a job like anybody else and it's unpleasant and you find ways to work through it but you shifted around and just said like this is what i get paid for i get paid for this discomfort i was getting paid in a sense because i was saving the tax money which is essentially yeah my salary and also the other thing that you brought up there's a lot of light bulb moments, but this is actually really funny. And I remember this because we all laughed about it, but you said, cause I kept saying like, I'm not getting things done because I'm worrying about the gravity of everything. Like what can happen? And I need to, I'm not completing stuff. And you were like so there this domino where what the one thing you can do where you kind of opens the door and you can get a you can do so many things and it was that I need to be a finish like I need to finish things I need to start completing projects and focus on them and complete them and you said Sandra you are a finisher and then that was just so funny because someone like me who's a perfectionist like I love that I want to be a finisher right and then everyone was kind of chiming in the chat and they're like well I want to be a finisher too and they're like I love me too and yeah so it was just so funny because that feels really good to be a finisher so I think about that a lot during my day when I'm getting tripped up is that you do need to finish. Like, let's just get it done. And in order to do that, I have to let go of a lot. Yeah. Well, because a lot of times a perfectionist considers finished when it's perfect. And so they don't want to take action until it's perfect. And many times we actually have to take action at about 70% in order to get data and information and more coming in, like to move the process forward to get to that final 20 to 30%. So to get to 100%, it's not possible for it to be perfect first because there's certain steps that have to happen. So yeah, and perfectionists tend to have like all or nothing thinking like it's all the way or it's nothing. So we had to let go of a lot of that too. So that kind of takes me into this conversation. So you were having, you bought a property, right? Well, I'll let you tell it. So you, you, I did. Yeah. So in 20, this year, 2025, I had set the intention to buy a larger multifamily on my own, a five plus five to 10 unit and was really like slow in that process, but was able to finally get through that. I got under contract on a property and ended up closing on it. I had some help from some other people too, and just all the work that we've been doing, but did get that property. And so I was really busy with that property, but I had those other two properties that I initially bought in 2023. And one of them was a duplex. So I was doing furnished rentals in my quad flex, my other property, but my duplex wasn't doing anything. It was long-term renters that I inherited and it was kind of falling apart. So I was kind of like letting that one slide. And the reason is because I was avoiding it because I knew it had a lot of problems. And I knew that like I overpaid because I was really wanting to get into the space and it was a lot more run down than I realized and the tenants didn't take care of it so had to address an eviction there I don't know if you remember that was really uncomfortable and then so that was a conflict that I had a hard time with and then once that tenant was out had to renovate that unit And so I had a handyman who also is a contractor and does a lot of renovations and decided to use him because I really liked him. We got along great. He was very knowledgeable. He was getting his GC license, general contractor, and I thought he would be perfect. and he actually inspected my six unit property that I closed on this year. So he was going to do the renovation. I flew into town and we walked it, but he started to not respond to me via text or even email. And I would call and leave a message, nothing. and I'd get something every once in a while that would kind of try to appease me and he'd come up with a plan and I would say what exactly is going on why are you not responding and essentially he had sort of gotten himself into a little situation because he had a contract that he started on his own for like as an engineer doing something but where he used to work and he was there during the day with no phone. They'd take his phone and it was sort of like a high security place. He was just not available during the day. So I have cameras and I have digital locks at my property so I could see a little bit about what was going on and there was very little going on. But yeah, we were just kind of going back and forth and I think I was in shock because I thought he was gonna be great and I didn't really know how to handle it. It went on for months and I kind of started just become paralyzed by it because the enormity of everything, I've got, if I don't have him anymore, that means, and he was my handyman, his group, which they did great as a handyman team. They were amazing. Then I don't have a handyman anymore and I don't have a contractor for this property that's already been sitting for months with no tenant in it. And they had taken some stuff apart and left it. The floor was up in the back and they had taken apart some of the bathroom and it was raining in the bathroom. And it was like, yeah, it was a lot. And so I think I was just not knowing how to manage it. I wasn't. I I was really shutting down over that whole situation. And I gave him a deposit of $8,000, which was about 30%. So now I'm doing the thing that I can't do because it's in my big assumption. Like if I lose money, the thing that makes me feel like uncomfortable, I left my career to do this. And here I am. I'm like losing money. a lot of it. Right. So we ended up making a test around this because there was a couple of key things that I think were big ahas for you. One was you told me that he was still continuing to respond to all of the handyman needs that you had on your other properties. So he was ghosting you about that property, but he was handling the handyman things for your other properties, just as well as he always had. Right? He also wasn't charging you for those maintenance calls that needed to be done. And I said, hey, I wonder if he's bitten off more than he can chew. He doesn't know how to tell you because he does care about the relationship that you have. And he's not charging you because he doesn't know how to fix this and he feels guilty. And I think when you realized that, you were like, wait a minute, maybe you're right. Because to me, it was black and white. He's not doing what he needs to do. He's literally failing at this job. So I'm going to have to, there was only one solution in my mind. I'm cutting him off. Like, I'm going to tell him I'm pulling him off the project. And I'm never going to speak to him again. And I'm going to lose the $8,000. And your handyman for all your other properties that you love. Losing a handyman and my contractor. Yeah. So I lost the money. I have to find two new positions to fill, two new people for positions, two positions. And I have to deal with this uncomfortable situation. And I wasn't thinking at all about what was going on with him or our relationship or any of that because I was trying to be tough. Like, this is what I'm supposed to do. I need to get past this. I'm going to have to deal with the loss and just move on. And that's kind of where I was until you pointed out some things to me about what was going on with his behavior. Why do you think he's acting that way? And you had said, like, is he retreating? And I said, yeah, he's ghosting me. Like, he doesn't want to talk to me. And you said, because he's afraid to tell you that he's struggling. he thought he could manage this team and do these renovations when he's primarily had a handyman business and this is a much different situation and managing contractors is different it's not the same level of business it's a lot more involved and you're going to have turnover and all that and he wasn't expecting all that he had like lots of things happen to him when he had the crew. So you devised a test, like a behavior change, and we came up with an entire script of how you were going to handle this differently. You were going to set, if I remember, some boundary, like you had some really direct questions, like you were going to let him know how much you valued. And I'm going to say what I remember, and then you tell me if this is what you ended up doing. You were going to tell him how much you valued him as a handyman. So you were going to literally have compassion for this person and express your gratitude for what he does really well. And then you were going to let him know that you're going to go ahead and pull him off. You were going to set that boundary and you were going to pull him off of that other project and you were going to get another contractor in for bids. And then you were going to discuss with him the $8,000 and how you could work through that. So they were also holding him accountable. So in that test you put together, you had an expectation, you had the boundary of what was acceptable, what's not. And then you had the accountability of what you were going to discuss with him. So did you end up doing all those pieces with him? I did. Yeah, I did all of those pieces. I sent him an email with all of that in there that I valued him as a handyman. I felt that they did an excellent job. They were always reliable and completed the jobs. And we had a good working relationship with them and the handyman capacity. But I said, I found someone else to do the project at the duplex, the big renovation. And I said, we can talk about how we can settle the $8,000 through handyman jobs if you want to do that. And then and I said and also it possible you could be like a quality control person to do property checks on my renovation at the duplex since he does have a lot of skill And he was very receptive He said I really thankful that you pulled me off the duplex renovation job because he said, I had so many things happen. I had like someone crashed his truck and people quit. He had to fire people and it kind of all fell apart. And he said, I think I'm going to stick to doing the one day jobs and do the handyman service. And I'm not going to hire back a full crew. So, and he said, yeah, he'd love to do property checks at the duplex. So. And I think part of that was like, you just told him like, I need to do this because I don't want to lose you as a handyman. And if we keep going the way we're going to, then it's probably going to go that way. So I love how compassionate you were. And I think you realized, I don't know that you realized before that, that everyone else out there is not really intentionally trying to make life hard. It's just that they're fighting their own battles. And the way that you were able to preserve the part that he was strong at and that relationship that was strong at. And I remember you being so excited because the new contractor you found through your bid process, going through another bid process with, I think, a couple other contractors, you were really excited about that person too, right? Yeah, he turned out to be great. Very good. Ended up with a great contractor. And it's moving along. We're actually going to be finished here pretty soon. Amazing. Yeah. But it was great with the first contractor because we built on our relationship too. and he's done a ton of work for me since then and he's doing the property checks and the duplex and I feel like he's back on track and now we've been through this situation too so yeah it definitely gives us something I don't know what the word is but it it gives us like something that we have built on in our relationship now. Yeah. You went through adversity. You got through it together. There's a deeper trust that is built. He can trust you because you see him and you see where he's strong. And he can trust you because you are saying what you mean. He's very clear on what the expectations are, you're clear on what he's capable of, and you're allowing him to shine in a way that makes him look good. Yeah. I mean, that's real leadership for you. And then you've expressed to me that since then, it's really changed how you interact with people, period, especially in conflict. Can you speak to that a little bit more? Yeah, that test was basically about conflict resolution pretty much and learning how to deal with these things and I feel more excited when I have a conflict before where I just wanted to kind of shut down and let it drag on until someone could help me with it or I figured something out like I said I wasn't really open to looking at these looking at it through a different lens like you kind of shared with me I really just didn't think there was an option like that. So yeah, now I look at things differently and I kind of look at everyone that I interact with in the real estate world as a partner in a way. How can we learn from each other and how can we build on this relationship? And I think that I listen a lot more and I pay attention a lot more to what's going on on the other side. instead of just going through the motions and it makes it a lot more fun and interesting to pay attention and build these relationships because if you're just moving around and you're getting new people all the time it's just a lot more cutthroat not as pleasant and it is this was a win for both of us so there can be solutions like that out there Yeah, all the time, but right, you got to be open to it. And you had to be willing to risk losing him, period. Because you didn't know how that conversation was going to go. You didn't know how he was going to receive it. We did the best we could from a compassionate leader that's holding someone accountable, and setting some boundaries. We did all of those things. But you did not make yourself responsible for how someone else was going to think, feel or react. and you had to risk that. Right. And by being willing to risk that, you had a incredible outcome. Is that always the case? No. But what have you learned about losing money, making mistakes, not getting things right and your capability? Yeah, a lot. I mean, making mistakes is definitely something that I've learned that is, was I would before think that it would equal that I'm doing a terrible job, you know, that I'm failing, I'm not going to succeed at this. But now I look at them differently as it's kind of part of the job. You're going to make mistakes. It's going to happen. And it's not a bad thing because you're going, you learn so much. It's really accepting that that is your growth period and being okay with that and get over being embarrassed or feeling uncomfortable. having to be transparent to people about this happened to me, whatever, like you have to kind of get past all that because, and look at it like, this is actually great. I'm going to learn all of this from this experience. And even if you lose the money, there's a huge return in so many ways on what you're learning. And you're going to make more down the road because you put different practices in place and you approach things differently. Yeah. It's been really fun to watch how you have been evolving and transforming and just even the way that you show up is you show up capable because you're willing to risk. If anything, I think you've said to me that I feel going through the adversities I have this year, the challenges that you had with the property you recently purchased. purchased, the multifamily you recently purchased, this situation with this other, the handyman and having to do this rehab, you said that I feel more capable because of the conflict that I've navigated. Exactly. Versus anything I ever would. Yeah. That's been said a million times. You're going to learn in the adversity, in the mistakes, in the perceived like failures or whatever, that's when you're going to learn and grow the most. And so just like having a little bit of acceptance of that is kind of like you've leveled up in that way, because that really is a whole different level when you can accept that because people aren't going to understand that. They're going to be like, why are you doing that? Like how many times have I heard, why are you investing out of state? Why are you self managing why are you in real estate you were a pharmacist all the things and putting that somewhere else all those thoughts and or those comments and remembering that like why isn't it possible that I can do those things right like and that was another thing that was like a big light bulb moment in our group was when we say like what if it is possible because so many of us are just thinking like, I can't do that. I can't have 50 units. I can't buy a business. I'm not good with money, all that stuff. And why not? Why isn't it possible? What is possible? Why isn't it possible? And when you start flipping the script like that, then the sky's the limit. You can do all those things. So yeah. I love that. It's all in your brain. It is. So Sandra, if people want to connect with you because they're interested in investing, maybe in out of state investing, or you said you're open to whatever possibilities come as you expand your own investing, where would they find you? You can find me on LinkedIn and Instagram. It's the best place. Okay. And I'll go ahead and link those for people in the show notes. So any final words? Just remember about like taking risks. I think about that a lot. Now, if you don't take risk, then you really are going to be right where you are. So yeah, think about that. And if you're okay with that's fine. But if you're not, find a way to medicate it. That really, yeah, that drives me that statement because, okay, yeah, I'm not okay with where I am. So then it's okay. I'll take the risk. Yeah, absolutely. Well, everyone, thank you so much. I hope that today was supportive for you and in leaving behind that all or nothing thinking, learning to navigate those relationships that are sometimes uncomfortable and realizing there's a possibility that on the other side of a hard conversation is a deeper relationship with more trust. And that sometimes doing the hard, uncomfortable things is just part of the job. And it's why you have the opportunity to get paid and have the freedom that you have. So with all of that being said, I'm sending you so much love. And if Jonathan were here, he would tell you to be well. Thanks for listening to the Conscious Edge podcast. Make sure you subscribe and take a moment to be kind and share this episode with someone you care about. Leave a review to help us bring more compassionate leaders building businesses and creating wealth to the table. And for show notes, head over to consciousedge.com forward slash podcast. This podcast and the linked materials are presented solely for general information, educational, and entertainment purposes, and should not be taken as personal or medical advice or any kind of mental health treatment. Please consult a medical or mental health professional if you feel you need such services. 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