Bed Bath & Beyond Buys The Container Store, Aerie Vs. AI & Has QVC Run Out Of Time? | Fast Five

I'm over smart cards. Let's just call it the retail media and couponing bull time. Maybe brand trust becomes even more important when consumers might think everything is fake. Those have gone from $15 billion to $10 billion. If you don't have a clear value proposition with a specific assortment, then you're out. People are saying things from in a feed full of AI. Thank you. Because no one else has done this. They could carry the higher end brands. It would never go into Walmart. There's too many steps. So then it just defeats the purpose of using an answer engine. Hello and welcome to the Omnitalk retail fast five. Today's episode is a real treat. Everyone today's guest host is someone whom I met and interviewed on stage at Shop Talk. Jeez, it was a number of years ago. We struck up a friendship. And what I admire most about her is that she always manages to help me see the future of retail in a new light. Who is she? Well, stay tuned because I'm going to introduce her right after we hear from all our wonderful partners who make this podcast possible each and every week. This episode of the Omnitalk retail fast five is brought to you by the A&M Consumer and Retail Group. The A&M Consumer and Retail Group is a management consulting firm that tackles the most complex challenges and advances its clients, people and communities toward their maximum potential. CRG brings the experience tools and operator like pragmatism to help retailers and consumer products companies be on the right side of disruption and Miracle, the catalyst of commerce over 450 retailers are opening new revenue streams with marketplaces, dropship and retail media and succeeding with Miracle. You can unlock more products, more partners and more profits without the heavy lifting. So what's holding you back? Visit Miracle.com to learn more. That's M I R A K L.com. 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They unite proprietary software with right size automation to make same day delivery profitable. To learn more, visit VALOCK.com. That's V-E-L-O-Q.com. Laura Kennedy, how the heck are you? I'm great. I'm great. You know, the sun is shining. My son pointed out this morning there's a lot of sevens in the temperature forecast for this week. So it can't be bad. Oh, yeah, it's sevens in Indiana. That's nice. Nice Midwestern weather. I hope we're going to get that in Minnesota too. It's funny. Somebody once told me you could take the Indiana out of. You could take the girl out of Indiana, but you can never take the Indiana out of the girl. Is that true? Probably. I am actually not a native Hoosier, though. I've lived here for 10 years, but I'm a native Western Pennsylvania. So you could probably take me out of Pittsburgh, but you can't take me out of Stealer Nation. Maybe something like that. That's probably even more so true, right? Yeah. Well, Laura, you know, people kept telling me, I'm so excited to have you on the show because people kept telling me. And this literally just happened to me like a couple of weeks ago when I was out at shop. Talked people, people that we both mutually respect kept telling me they say, you've got to get Laura on the fast five. You got to get her as a guest host. And now you're here. So I couldn't be more pumped up. And so why don't you tell the audience a little bit about you and who you are? And then I'll probably tell the story about how we met too. But tell us about your background. I'm a retail strategist and analyst and spend a lot of time thinking about how people shop, why it matters. I've led retail and consumer research, both at CB Insights and Cantar. Advised a lot of executives at big companies along the way. And at the moment, I'm exploring my next chapter, something ideally at the intersection of retail strategy, big ideas, real commercial impact. But today I'm just here to talk shop and whatever else might come up. Yeah, which is what I love because I love grabbing you all when you're unfettered and can basically say whatever it is that's on your mind, which is great. But that's great. But yeah, I mentioned to you like so we met at Shop Talk, right? What was it? What did we meet in Shop Talk? Like what year was that? I don't even remember. It was 2020. I think it was 2023. Is that all right? I think, yeah, which is, you know, now three years ago, which is wild. And we did a rapid fire panel, right? We did a rapid fire panel. You're on the panel. I think Pramo, Pramo, the chief digital officer at the time at Ulta was on the panel as well. And yes. And it was great because you like brought up all these points that I had never thought about or conceived of. And you got into some back and forth with me on stage and we've talked a couple of times since then. So it was awesome. All right. Well, Laura, without further ado, are you ready to do your first guest hosting stint on the Omnitalk retail Fast Five? As ready as I'm ever going to be. All right, let's do it. And this week's Fast Five, we've got news on Aerie teaming up with Pamela Anderson to take a very public stand against AI generated content. Car Four becoming the first European retailer to offer grocery shopping directly through ChatGPT. QVC Group issuing a going concern warning. Car Four again, believe it or not, a French retailer makes the Fast Five twice. But this time for Israel operation, announcing one of the largest smart cart deployments in the world. And A&M's Jeremy Levine's joins us for five insightful minutes on how grocers can improve their fresh operations. But we begin today with Bed Bath and Beyond buying the container store for a cool one hundred and fifty million dollars. Laura, according to Retail Dive, Bed Bath and Beyond, which famously filed for bankruptcy and liquidated all of its physical stores in 2023, has signed a definitive merger agreement to acquire the container store, which itself filed for bankruptcy in December, 2024, before emerging as a private company. The transaction also includes the container stores, Sweden-based Alpha Home Organization business and Chicago-based Closetworks, giving Bed Bath and Beyond a full home, excuse me, organization and customization ecosystem under one roof. Rather than reopening standalone Bed Bath and Beyond stores, the company plans to roll out dual branded locations, integrating its products into existing container store footprints. Laura, Bed Bath and Beyond and the container store, is this a case of two rugs making a right? What do you think of this move? Well, I feel like there's there's two ways to look at it. I think the sort of financial perspective is that these are two brands that whose individual power is clearly waning. In the case of Bed Bath and Beyond, well, I guess in both cases, like really has weighed it. Yeah, has weighed. Yeah, we're we're done. Yeah. Yeah, we're not positive that they even still had stores. You're right. They're past tense brands, almost. So, you know, this is just the consolidation and retail we've been talking about for like more than 20 years. It just continues to happen. But I think the risk is that you could look at it as like, well, you know, you got to combine the assets. It looks good financially. But the actual survival of it depends on them creating a differentiated experience. Like why are people going to shop there? Otherwise, they're just rearranging. You know, it's the proverbial rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. So and to me, it just means they have to get really intentional about what they carry about assortment, about pricing, about why you would go to the store. You know, I really when I think about it, very few retailers and you can correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like very few retailers succeed with an endless in store aisle today. You know, the beyond in Bed Bath and Beyond. Unless you're, you know, Walmart, Target, Meyer and your whole, you know, premise is mass. I feel like TJX's banners are the closest thing, but they have the treasure hunt. They have the pricing. You know, there's there's a reason those stores succeed. You know, bookstore like Barnes and Noble have done, I think, exactly what we're talking about here, where there are category specialists that they've remade their assortment and the experience to make people actually want to go there. So my I kind of am just left with questions. Are they going to curate the assortment more? Are they going to take advantage of container store? I mean, the store is high end. The stuff is expensive there. Will they have more services? Yeah, well, they have more services. So that's my question. I'm sure, you know, from the operator perspective or from the CFO, it's like, oh, this looks like a good deal. But from the consumer perspective, I have more questions. Yeah, that's interesting to me because I'll bring in another another experience to light in this conversation, too. You know, when I was heading up home furnishings for for Target.com and also, you know, running some of the omnichannel sides of the business, that that the beyond was always the retailer that scared me. You know, and it's been funny to watch how it's played out. And the reason I the reason I say that is because Bed Bath and Beyond did what Walmart and what Target at the time couldn't do. They could carry the higher end brands in stores that would never go into Walmart. And that's something that hasn't been capitalized on really to the extent in terms of creating that truly differentiated mass market home furnishing experience for the upper cachet, which department stores used to do. But that's business has kind of gone out by the wayside. So believe it or not, I mean, I always joke on this show, two wrongs never make a right. But in this case, I kind of think they might, Laura, because I think it you mentioned it's a return on assets play, you know, for background. So if you look at the container store as 100 stores, those stores, to your point, tend to be in very desirous locations like they are nice spots where you want to have stores and Bed Bath and Beyond, for the most part, is acquiring them all at a very significant discount to what it would take to build them out themselves. So that's number one. Number two, I think there's actually synergies between the two product portfolios, too, so I could see, you know, getting more, you know, getting more out of the box, so to speak, by blending and combined. I think that's a real thing that they could do. I don't think that's smoke and mirrors in terms of, you know, how they pitch this in terms of how to combine the product portfolios of two of both entities. And then three, you know, the stores themselves tend to be newer, nicer, more inviting than what we all remember as the Bed Bath and Beyond experience, which was kind of getting to the point of like being trapped in old, outdated strip malls and not being that great of an experience. So, yeah, so net net, the merchant in me kind of thinks this is a smart move. And it's from a company that's held by a CEO to, you know, good old Marcus, who has a track record of wheeling and dealing and figuring out how to make these things work. So I don't know, Laura, what do you think? Do you did did I sway your thinking in any way? I mean, I think I think we're still kind of arriving at the same inclusion, which is that the experience in assortment has to change. You mentioning the old Bed Bath experience with the stuff stacked to the ceiling, I mean, talk about stack at high. It's like insane. Makes me wonder what will happen to the 20 percent off Bed Bath coupon? Are people, I mean, it was like I'm a little bit in jest asking about this. But it's a real question. Yeah, because I think the Bed Bath consumer expected that. And I think tells us a lot about the the expectations of price and experience in the store. And maybe it tells us a lot about why we have wound up in this situation in the first place, but it doesn't play with the truthfully, like really high end container store experience. And so I'm I'm curious, you know, does a consumer. Buy it for lack of a better term. You know, do they buy that this is this is the new one? It's like they go in and say, whoa, this is this is way nicer than I thought it was going to be. And I just I just think that space to your point. I mean, department stores don't do it anymore. Well, I mean, we saw what happened to department stores. Like there's there's a reason. So I I'm yeah, I'm really curious. And I do think we've ultimately kind of arrived at the same conclusion. And maybe the upshot is we think they're going to go higher end. And are people going to want that? Yeah. Yeah, it all comes down to what are you giving people right at the end? Yes. But I think from an asset's play and, you know, trying to make that idea work. Yeah, it's as smart as any. But the risk is in can you make the idea work, which is what the investors are, you know, taking into account. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think the nicer locations are meaningful, too. That's, of course, where we're seeing the most success in retail real estate. This is better strip malls, better malls. So that means that the worst ones are just looking even worse. But yeah, I'd rather I'd rather try to reenliven the bed, bath and beyond. Brad from the container stores, footprint. Yes, the old bed, bath and beyond footprint, right? Which I think is a key point in this story. Yes. Yes. Yeah. For sure. Cool. All right. Well, let's move on to headline number two. And this is the one about Airy. Airy, the American Eagle, you know, Laundry brand has launched an anti AI campaign starring Pamela Anderson under a pledge. The brand is calling 100 percent Airy real, which is a commitment to never use AI generated bodies or people in its marketing. According to marketing dive, Airy first formalized its 100 percent Airy real pledge in October, 2025, committing to never use AI generated bodies or people in its marketing. The latest campaign centers on a film starring Pamela Anderson, in which she has shown prompting an AI to generate female models and growing increasingly dissatisfied with the artificial results until real women appear on a live airy set. Chris, this is also the A&M put you on the spot question of the week. So get ready. You don't get it this week. I get it. No, I don't. Thanks for the A&M. That's great. To pass it over there. While the public debate around AI generated content today focuses on keeping it real. Can the same brands making stances today hold firm over time against the temptations of lower production costs by using AI? What do you got, Chris? Oh, man. Yeah, well, Ken or Ken or is on this one. Wait, wait, wait. Social media comments start to fly on this one. Oh, man, Laura. My thoughts on this have swung back and forth so many times. And I think we talked about this on the show like, you know, six, seven months ago, too. But, you know, I think. I think I think I would give, you know, Airy, who has a better chance of others. And I'll talk about that more in a second of why. But like I give them even a five and 10 shot, like a 50 50 shot of being able to hold this over the long term. You know, I like it for them right now because they've got to they're doing it from a high perch. I mean, their cop was 24 percent in the quarter, which is just absolutely insane. They get first mover on this type of positioning and using Pamela Anderson is also very smart, given, you know, how she's kind of had a resurgence too. But is it applicable to everyone? I don't think so. And the other part, which I'm curious to get your take on, too, is like, where does this actually begin and end? You know, you know, you could say you're not using models, but, you know, like, but and you're supposed to get some big prize out of that. But like, are you using it in your video editing? Are you using it in your copywriting? Are you sitting in your background imagery for your website? So there's just so many shades of gray here where I actually start to question the real authenticity of it, too. If everyone starts to follow suit, you know, I think there is something about models being different than copywriting and editing tools and productivity tools versus the actual models themselves. But are you still going to be able to hold on to this mantra when you're not on as high of a perch and everyone's congealing that way? And the AI generated content gets better and better and hooks us better and better. I don't know. I don't know. But what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's wild. You said Aries Cobb is 24 percent. I mean, the rest of American Eagle, they still make they make up like 40 percent of American Eagle, right? The rest of American Eagle is like 2 percent Cobb. It's like that's that is rough. I mean, they're they're holding this ship afloat pretty much. So they obviously have a lot of power. You know, I think there's again, sort of two parts to it. AI overall, I agree. Well, I guess I'll start with talking about Aries. I think this is much stronger as just branding rather than a moat. And maybe you mean the moat is branding. But, you know, Aries already has this positive body image thing. To your point, Pamela Anderson has been doing this whole no makeup thing. So it's like very on brand for her. It is interesting if you think about the consumer base of Aries versus people who know who Pamela Anderson is. But that's for like a celebrity analysis podcast, I guess. But still, the the brand's lineup, you know, you can make it the argument that maybe brand trust becomes even more important when consumers might think everything is fake. And that gets to the other the other side of things, which is I just agree with the idea that AI is just such a slippery slope. And I think the real the real issue is that we we just don't know how big its impact is going to be. And this is true across like every part of life. You know, I know you talked about it a few weeks ago in the context of, you know, Jack Dorsey, you know, laying off so many people because they're going to use AI. And it's sort of like, well, where does AI come in there in the workflow? Where are you eliminating people? So we don't know there. We don't know how much content it's going to impact. Like you said, isn't just the backgrounds, is it the people? You know, I I hope it doesn't permeate everything in our lives and things reach an equilibrium. But, you know, needless to say, I do think a lot of consumers are already really skeptical of everything they see. So it might be AI. And so then you're saying anti retouching and AI generated bodies. And, you know, Adobe Photoshop has AI features like they everybody uses Photoshop. Everything's retouched. Right. You know, I think you I'm like wondering what's the word that we're going to use in place of greenwashing, you know, is like is going to be like AI washing or, you know, once other brands copy this because inevitably to your point, they're the first mover, but like other brands are going to copy this. So that was going to be my question. So you think this is the first domino to fall? You think other specialty barrel brands will come out and say similar types of things? That's my first question to be that. I think. Yeah. I mean, that's a good point. I guess you wonder what other brands really have a lot of ground to stand on. I could see like Patagonia saying something about their use of AI, but not in the. They don't care about their models being retouched or something, but like they're going to make some kind of AI statement, you know? So then it just becomes all these different things. And then like to your point, it's like, you're going to tell me that really, like nobody at XYZ brand will just, you know, Patagonia obviously is a great brand. Nobody's using chat, you know, to help with their work. And it's like that would be strange, honestly. So I have to imagine others are going to do it. But I don't know that actually anybody else is in quite the position for their models. I mean, Victoria's Secret's trying to get back. With it, right? And they maybe they'll do it. Yeah, they probably would do it. Yeah, I think yeah, I think I think you're I my hunch is you actually see a lot of people go this direction on the model side. Yeah. But my but my other question for you is, because this is this is like current like current retailers and we talk about the future too, in terms of upstart retailers and how they'll approach things. I think upstart retailers are probably less inclined to, you know, lever into models because they're expensive. So my question for you, my other question for you is, as all these, you know, digitally native brands start up and try to get, you know, cash in the marketplace. I personally, I'm curious if you have the same experience when I'm scrolling, when I'm doing scrolling on, you know, Instagram and Facebook at night, the AI catches me in a different way. Oh, yeah. The other stuff. Is that true for you too? It is. I think the quality is still not there. Where if you look at it for one more beat, you're like, oh, this is weird. Like I can tell that I'm probably going to say I or not. You know, like that's exactly what I think we're already at. Like is this AI? And, you know, there was a time like five years ago where we were talking all about like the virtual avatar is going to take over. Oh, it's cheaper for you. You don't have to model on people and all this kind of stuff. I think there's still a lot of room for that if you're a fashion designer, of course, you don't have to produce every single garment and stuff like that. But like I said, the quality right now, I feel pretty quickly. You can see that said, I mean, I think everyone's got got by something, you know, in the news or whatever. So it's on its way. But yeah, you wonder if the newer brands are going to dip their toe in it and they could really get burned, though. I almost wonder if the risk is actually higher for a newer brand, because if you are instantly known as the brand that used all AI models, is that good? Yeah. Or you just hold to it, you know, you just. Hey, we're going to do the anti branding, right? It's kind of like, you know, like, you know, that whole thing too. So it's probably. Yeah, hey, we're just, hey, we just are who we are. You know, we made stuff, good clothes that you want to buy. I don't know. We'll see. It's a dark time. I don't know. It's a dark time. Yes. Yes. 12 sides of the apocalypse is upon us. All right. Let's keep going. Yeah. My number three car for has become the first major European retailer to offer grocery shopping directly through chat. You PTA, and this was one of the, one of the headlines where I was specifically interested in getting your take on it today, Laura. And they are launching the integration in France on March 26 and targeting the company's estimated 26 million chat. You PTA users, according to the retail insight network, French users can now interact with chat. You PTA to get recipe ideas, check product availability, build a shopping basket and select delivery or click and collect options all without leaving the chat. Interface before completing their purchase on care for the integration lives inside chat. You PTA's mobile app alongside other service partners like booking.com, for example, and customers can access it simply by searching for car for in the apps list of applications. Importantly, payment is like we talked about last week, everyone, payment is completed on car for's own website, meaning car for retains transaction data and the direct customer relationship, even while seeding some control over what products the AI recommends. Laura, there are a lot of retailers, a lot of retailers debuting apps inside of chat. You PTA, we talked about it, like I said, with Walmart last week. Sephora also recently is doing something similar. What do you think of this strategy? And does the fact that car for is a traditional grocer change your thoughts on the approach at all? Yeah, I mean, this is an area that to your, as you noted, I've been following really closely for a while for, you know, more than a year sort of the idea of we were calling it a gentic shopping, but I'm not sure that it's increasingly seeming like we're, you know, we're sort of just thinking about it all the LLMs. The short answer is I feel like it's moving in the right direction, but the experience isn't right yet. So I don't know if you've used an app in chat, GBT. I try. OK, you try. I have not. So, you know, for this, these purposes, I played around with it. I use the target, the target app. It did a pretty good job on the suggestion side. I was asking it for snacks for a soccer team, which I imminently need for my son's game this week. But there's too many steps that you have to go in. You have to find the app. You have to connect it to your platform. And then you have to at target like old school Twitter style or something. And so then it just defeats the purpose of being in chat, GBT, and using an answer engine, which is to make things easier and more efficient. And so the other question it brings up for me is exactly how consumers are using chat, GBT or LLMs, you know, in their journey. You know, to your point, it seems like they're not buying things there. You know, as you discussed on the podcast, as Walmart has said, everybody, the the the shot, it's really just shopping. And then you start to split hairs to understand which tasks exactly are they trying to use it for. You know, find me a spring jacket is different than give me what's available at target. And I'm I would just say the the sort of generous view is that we just it's too early. You know, we don't really know how exactly that's happening. But we definitely know they don't want to check out there. You know, it reminds me of when we were first talking about social commerce and everybody was like, is this actually what people want to be doing on these apps? And I think we kind of have to ask ourselves that about the LLMs. But to your point, I think it also gets back to who owns which layer. You know, Carrefour still wants to own the checkout, but do the LLMs own the discovery? You know, what happens with retail ad buying? Like, are you buying an ad on chat? GBT, are you buying an ad on Carrefour? I'm sure this app thing is partially to like keep things in a in a box. So that's the long way of saying what I initially said, which is I feel like we're we're on to something, but the experience isn't right. You've note about Carrefour and grocery shopping, I think is important because that is a more distinctive experience in terms of loyalty, in terms of your intent, you know, at Carrefour. Give me ingredients for a weekend barbecue is different than find me a spring jacket. So maybe maybe if you know that you're grosser, you're more apt to attach that app to your LLM. But it still is this hiccup in the process that I'm always skeptical about whether consumers are going to do and want to do. Yeah, I'm glad you brought up that point because the grocery thing is really is really interesting to me. And to hear you talk about it, I think, you know, it's really important because like in context, Walmart, when they initially said they were doing the chat, you can see integration, they kept grocery off the table from from what I remember. And I don't know if that's still the case, given their recent announcement. But it's but that was very overtly said, because I remember doing on the part very overtly said that they were not going to include grocery. And and the because the thing I keep, I think grocery does behave differently. I 100% agree with you and producer Ellis said the same thing in terms of an app experience. Like if I'm like, if I'm just going to have an app experience, why don't I just go to the app and have great LLMs inside the app of the grocer or the retailer that I'm doing things with. And the thing that I worry about grocery, so that I say, like, OK, well, what what if it's grocery? It's grocery different. Like, you know, I have a strong generally have a strong bond already with your grocer because you're going there, you know, each and every week for the most part. That changed my thinking at all. And that's why I keep coming back to is no, it doesn't. Because if I have good LLM search on my own properties, that's a big, you know, that's a big thing here. That's a big caveat. Like, why do I need this? And then, you know, especially when it's already on my phone anyway, like, why? Right. If I'm going to go, if I'm going to go, tell me what tell me car for what I should, you know, plan for my barbecue this weekend. Why would I do that on the LLM versus in in the app itself? So it doesn't make sense. And then the other thing I just wonder, too, is when I think about agentic commerce in the long run, the more grocery data these guys have, the more susceptible the grocers are to getting disintermediated with technology and price comparison and all those types of things. Right. So net net, I don't think I would be the first penguin in the water on this if I was car for, but I don't know. What do you think? Am I am I over it over it? Yeah, I don't know. I think the point about agentic commerce is is where it becomes more interesting and like hypothetical at this point, because we don't have, we don't have agentic commerce yet. Right. I think you're absolutely right that I am much more likely to open my Walmart target app and expect to have a better search experience within that as a consumer right now. And why isn't the LLM just there? I don't, you know, I'm already having issues when I go and ask chat, CPT shopping questions and I know that it's not pulling Amazon results. And I'm like, well, I'm not getting the whole world. So now I got to go to Amazon anyway, which of course that's a good point. So that's what they wanted. Not been brought up before. Yep. Yeah. But but if we get into an agentic world, I think something that I've always felt that is if we get into the world where you really are having an agent shop for you, it's going to be too much to have an agent for every retailer. You're going to have the Google agent or the open AI agent or the or some other big tech agent, Apple agent that sees your whole world and goes out and does that shopping for you. So in that world, if Walmart has a presence already in chat, GPT or whatever LLM it is, probably chat, GPT, maybe that gives it a foothold for this future agentic, truly autonomous world. Because it just is going to why would you have a Rufus and a Sparky doing these things if you just are like, just find me toothpaste at the lowest price? Like, but that interacts with loyalty then, you know, what's going to happen? So yeah, but then by the same token, yeah, but by the same token, you're putting the Amazon strategy of buy for me in a totally different light as well. You know, yeah, that makes that positioning a lot stronger too. So, oh, man, we're going to have to have you back and we're going to have to keep talking about this one because it changes every day. It's just so interesting, but it's important when you think about the long term implications of some of these decisions right now. Yeah. How thought out are they and how much do you need to make that move right this second? Yeah. Yeah, strategically, I I find it amazing or fascinating that you have Carrefour and Walmart as two of the early movers, because Walmart historically has not been a first mover. And so what does that mean? Does that mean that they feel it's really important to be first? Have they completely changed their play? You know, now they're one of our tech first movers. I, you know, this these are other other discussion questions. So it's significant, I think. Wow, really, really great stuff, Laura. All right. Now let's welcome Jeremy Levine onto today's program. Joining us for today's five insightful minutes segment is Jeremy Levine. Jeremy is a senior director at the Alvarez and Marcell Consumer and Retail Group, and he is here to walk us through the key insights from his recent white paper called Mastering Fresh Operations Tactics for Grocers to Win in the next decade. Jeremy, let's start with this. Why are fresh departments getting so much attention right now? And what does that mean specifically for traditional regional grocers? OK, first thanks for having me on the pod. Yeah, we are really excited to write this article. I think this is a great time for your traditional grocers. So what we've seen is an acceleration of a handful of consumer trends that are really pushing shoppers towards those fresh departments and they all anchor around healthier lifestyles. Right. You see it in a version of processed foods. You see it in less alcohol. You see it in more protein. On that point, we've done some research and in the US, Americans consume about 12 billion fewer grams of protein than they should every single day. It's a couple of protein bars per person. So I see your jaw drop on that one. That's that's that's my reaction when we finish the analysis as well. And yes, I just there's a lot of legs for the for the meat department in the seafood areas in particular. Yeah, and I think what's exciting is because fresh is more important than ever. These are things that what's important there is what the traditional grocer does really, really well. Right. You think about quality. You think about service that that butcher that knows your name, that person at the deli counter who knows your order and also localized assortments, be it local producers or really tailored assortments for for a particular region. So I think in a place where traditional grocers have been squeezed from big box, from discounters on one end and then from specialty on the other. This is a really exciting time where they can they can really lean in. The fresh area is definitely a defensive moat for many of those regional grocers, if they do this the right way. Of course, there's dynamics involved in that, too. I mean, I can remember, you know, going back almost 15, 20 years at Target, always talking about fresh. So but even though it matters, it's really easy to screw it up or get it wrong. So what makes the fresh departments so hard to execute, Jeremy? They're just fundamentally more complicated than than the rest of the store. Right. The margin of error is hours, not days, you know, between a fuzzy strawberry versus a fresh one, you know, a brown steak versus a appealing steak. So you just really need to get every detail right. And people are more discerning in those areas. Like everyone picks up and examines the apple to the to the nth degree. So it's just really, really critical. And I think where we see that go wrong is people often treat them all the same. They're really all, you know, kind of unique, unique problems to solve. You can't treat fruit like you can steak. That's what you're saying. Exactly. You know, it matters. You need to get the donuts out early in the morning in the bakery. You need to be ready for the lunch rush. You do kind of constantly do the culling and the produce section. They just they just have very different operating rhythms and customer expectations. Yeah, for my days running super targets, too, that takes a different level of expertise at the store level, too, to make it sure everything is working correctly. Well, all right. So how so if I'm a grocery executive listening to this, how should I be thinking about getting this right? What does good actually look like to you? Yes, what we talk about in the article is really four things that are critical. The first is just having a team at top to bottom to the organization that is good at fresh, right? So you think about is a store manager incentivized on the fresh department? What does the fresh training look like for store associates? Just you need that workforce. You can execute all of those things. The second is process excellence. You know, the more complex the area is, the more standardization is required to execute it. Two things I'll call out just from my experience, one culling. Store associates often it's very counterintuitive that you pull product off of the floor to get more sales. That one takes a lot of extra discipline. The other is back rooms. If the back rooms a mess, it will show up on the sales floor and the quality, etc. So two areas that have been top of mind for me and my clients. Third bucket is scheduling. And I just really emphasize that a well placed hour of production, say in the deli department can set up the department for success or failure for the entirety of the day. That really matters on an hour by hour basis, kind of where you have folks if a production, as I mentioned, or for customer service. And last one I'll call out is just a bridge between stores and headquarters. I think too often there's a bit of a communication gap between the two. And like one, the stores will be able to tell you when things aren't going well. So you want to have kind of your finger on the pulse there. And it is also make sure that that collaboration is in place between the store teams and say the merchandising teams. All right, Jeremy. So let me put you on the spot here before I let you go. So if I'm a grocery CEO, let's take it to the highest level now. And I'm listening to you. What's the first thing I should do Monday morning around this area? Yeah, I'm going to double down on the scheduling piece. Scheduling? Yeah, I have yet to see a retailer who consistently gets this right. There's always pockets of folks who are, you know, say, scheduling less on the weekends. When people are there and something you can implement and affect really, really quickly. And it might just be a question of enforcing the rules that are already there. Right. There might be some new design for how you think about scheduling, but even just some discipline around how it works today can make a massive, massive difference very, very quickly. That's great stuff and great advice. Thank you, Jeremy. Thank you, Chris. We're moving on to headline number four for today. Moving from chat, GPT and LLMs to talking about QVC group. We're really all over the timeline today. QVC group has disclosed that it anticipates issuing a going concern morning in its delayed annual report, citing $6.6 billion in debt. Wow. And ongoing negotiations with lenders. According to retail dive QVC group disclose, it cannot submit its 10 K within the prescribed time period without unreasonable effort or expense, citing ongoing lender negotiations. The company carries approximately $6.6 billion in total consolidated debt, including a critical $2.9 billion credit facility maturing in October of this year, making near term refinancing the single most urgent priority for the business. The decline in QVC's core business has been stark. QVC and HSN home shopping network once reached over 90 million American homes at the company's peak. By last September, the active consumer base had shrunk to 7 million people from 11.6 million as recently as 2020. Chris, QVC has just issued a going concern. Is this the beginning of the end for home shopping television, or is there still a version of this business that can survive in the streaming and social commerce era? Oh, wow. I think there's probably still a version of it that survives, but it's not QVC. I think it's the end of QVC. I mean, it's going to the version of it that survives is called TikTok Instagram and YouTube. Let's just call it like it is. You know, and I said that, you know, I think it's a good idea to have a QVC You know, and I said this back in the day because QVC, I think it was last year, even the year before, they said they were overtly pivoting towards social media. And I said at the time that it was game over then, like that was the side to me that was game over. And now it really is. I mean, sales, like you said, sales have gone from 15 billion dollars in 2020 to 10 billion dollars. Somehow the debt got out of control, you know, as well, which I mean, and it may still be tempting because I think there's probably some people out there. There's there's still tempted to say, oh, yeah, but they're still doing 10 billion dollars lower like 10 billion dollars, a lot of volume. Yeah, but it's 10 billion dollars of typewriters because the brands and the influencers, they no longer need the services that QVC once provided, they can do that themselves. The business model just is no longer valid in my opinion. So that 10 billion dollars is just going to continue to shrink and shrink and shrink. And there's no amount of refinancing or remodeling the business strategy that I think is going to save it in the long run. You might be able to still squeeze some juice out of that lemon, but that 10 billion dollars is going to ultimately end up being zero to me. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's it's just a real bummer. I mean, in that 15 billion in 2020, I did we assume that is like a little goose by everybody sitting in front of TVs? Like, I guess that's the other thing. We're even talking about a number that might not even be have been real, quote unquote. But yeah, I really think it's like a tiktok explosion to in the US. Yes, you're right. Exploded after that. You're right. You're right. And that has become our shopping platform. Yeah. I mean, it's a shame. I think it set the tone and the standard for what we see in social video shopping. But, you know, nobody has cable TV anymore. It's your first nail in the coffin like that. And like, of course, the customer base shrunk, you know, the Oscars are going to be on YouTube. Like they're just everything in the the base of the world that produce QVC is just gone. It does highlight for me the fact that live stream shopping, you know, as we were talking about five years ago, or even at the shop talk where you and I were, we were still talking about it. It never came to the US in the same way that it has, you know, really lived and thrived in Asian countries as generalizing there. But it does exceed in very narrow worlds, like, you know, what not is in collectibles. I think there's some sneaker platforms and stuff. So it does, you know, if we're thinking in a productive way about QVC, not that it would survive, but it does bring you back to my questions about assortment. Like there's just the model of just sort of having anything and everything and not having a platform like we'll get again mentioned to you. Yeah, it's like a TGMX store, you know, that people want to visit. It doesn't see it doesn't work. And so if you don't have a clear value proposition with a specific assortment, then, you know, you're out. So, you know, this one's just kind of a bummer. Yeah, I think I think but I think it's important that once you bring it up because I think the way I think about what you just said is. QVC wasn't successful because of the live aspect of what was the programming. QVC was successful in retrospect because it was the closest approximation we could get to doom scrolling for product inspiration. You wanted to buy because that was the only outlet you had to go and occupy your time. But now it's like Carter Jensen always talks about who's on the show a couple weeks ago. It's all about where do you spend your time and now people are spending their time on what is a better experience in terms of how you can do. And so you can do scroll in real time, whether it's a live event or not, you have the option of deciding that and that that's really, I think I never thought about that. I've never said that until you just mentioned that. But I think that's really what what has hit the business model more so than the actual live nature of what it did. Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's the old mass media is gone. And so the idea that everyone's flipping through the channels, the same channels at the same time and stumbling on something. And you know, I think you could still make the argument that they had stuff people wanted and they had good deals and stuff. And I think there were personalities at one time who maybe people like to watch. But yeah, when you when you've splintered where people spend their time, you know, people aren't going to the movies. Mass media just isn't a real. It's the upheaval that we've been talking about for a long time. So yeah, I think it's yeah. Yeah. And then with technology and AI, you just you don't need the the the influencers or the people that actually bring the attention to the products. You don't need right that the QVC, you know, requires to do that. So right. But yeah, I think it's just a tough game. But all right, let's close it out with headline five and let's go back to car for. But this time let's go back to car for in Israel. Because car for Israel and a to Z custom made solutions have announced a five year, $50 million agreement to deploy 4000 smart shopping carts across car for Israel stores. One of which is one of if not the largest smart cart deployment in retail history. Hmm. According to chain storage, the rollout is set to begin in Q3 2026. I see Laura already laughing across six car for Israel flagship stores and will include end to end delivery of smart cart hardware charging infrastructure advanced software systems for implementation training and long term support. Tell them what they've won Bob. A to Z has been granted exclusive retail media and data monetization rights on the smart cart platform for the duration of the deployment, giving the deal a recurring revenue model built on top of the hardware. Car for Israel expects approximately $35 million in profits tied to the agreement with additional operating with additional operational efficiencies and sales gains contributing beyond that figure. Laura, I have two questions to close out the headlines today. One, are you buying number one? Are you buying the size of this deal? I think I may know which way you're leading on that. And two, what are your opinions on smart carts in general? Well, I will say I did listen to a bit of you and Carter talking about smart carts. So I know that like, you know, maybe omni talk is like off smart carts right now. So I know that spoiler alert. So that's part of why I'm laughing. I know not all of smart carts, but I mean, the first thing that this calls to mind for me is several years ago when Walmart made a deal for in store robots and like 1000 stores, which, you know, for Walmart is huge. Only to call it back a few years later. That is not to hate on robots. Some companies are still seeing success with that, but it's just interesting. Oh yes, we love robots and I'll be talking. Yes, we love robots, but for this deal, it seems like there's so much bundled in it. In terms of the amount of money and everything like that, it's hard to know it does all of this materialize. Obviously they're focused on making the store more trackable because they're really focused on the retail media and monetization points. So, you know, the answer the short answer to this, are you buying the size of this deal is like, I guess I don't I'm not really clear what's in the amount, you know, and whether it's actually going to happen. Because of my feeling about smart carts, which is they clearly haven't proven an ROI at scale yet. And that's I don't think that we should expect them to and maybe this is in a backwards way actually saying I don't think the size of the deal is good, because my feeling with cashierless checkout from the beginning has been that it's going to be one option for that works for some shoppers and not for others, you know, some consumers, including me, still kind of hate self checkout. The first iteration of this. Others love it. They think it's more efficient. I know my husband somebody who like always wishes there was more scan and go type options and and I always try and tell him this is why. No, there's too much shrink can do it but you know like there's people who want different options and so I having it be your sole option feels like a lot of, you know, to put in that basket. I think with so many store tech solutions. They sound great. And I would include robots in this but operationally it's so hard because every store is different. Shelves aren't even, you know, it's just all this stuff that doesn't that is much more difficult than it seems in the beginning. You know, Amazon has only put the dash cart, which I think is still called the dash cart. They're not even in other retailers. They're not even in Whole Foods stores and I feel like that's telling because they're in control of the Whole Foods store. They could like change it to look like what they want. So when you say 4000 across, I think there's like 150 car for stores in Israel. That's like that is a lot for it to be just an option. So, yeah, I'm skeptical. I'm curious what what your smart cart POV is. I'm skeptical of the deal because the one thing that stuck out to me is like you're doing a six store pilot when you signed a $50 million deal. Something something somebody's jumping the gun on something or something. Yes. In the way this story was written. So that's that's why I'm skeptical of it because you don't pilot something and then invest 50 and say you're already invested $50 million. So that's weird. But I think what I think what you're hitting on here and I've been thinking a lot about this. I mean, God, we talk about smart cards. I feel like every month. I think I think the term smart card is just basically a disservice at the end of the day because, you know, what I like what I like about the idea of a of a smart shopping cart is really the two things that have proven to be valuable to the consumer and to the retailer. One, you can see your budget in real time as you shop, which I think is a valuable feature. And two, and this is actually beneficial for the consumer to you can get served up ads while you shop. Right. That's beneficial for the brands and the retailers. That's really what we're talking about here. That's that's where the value comes in. The idea of actually being able to exit the store, check out free. Like, I don't think anyone really cares about that from an incremental value standpoint. So I feel like I feel like this is doing customate, which their solution actually looks like you don't need a whole cart redesign from what I when I was perusing the site. It's actually like it actually just bolts on to an existing cart and you can use it to do those things I talked about to provide those two elements of value to it. So like, I think the industry actually needs to go away from calling these things smart cards. And let's just call them what they are. Let's just call it the retail media and couponing bull time because that's really what everybody wants to do. And let's just find the solution that does that in the best way possible. I mean, it sounds silly, but it's so obvious to me when we talk about it like that. I'm just I'm over smart cards. But I mean, I talk me off the ledge here, Laura. Yeah, no laughing in the background as I'm saying that but like, that's really what we're talking about. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think the bolt on has always seemed like the way it's going to go. I mean, these whole carts with computer vision are like just insane investments for something that did not cost that much for the retailer to buy in its old form. So like, yeah, that just doesn't. But that is the correct direction. The thing with with retail media that I keep bumping up against is that that's really great for the brand and the retailer. I'm just so curious to your point, at least if it has the budgeting aspect, then that's going to make a consumer use it. But like, what is the value for the consumer? Okay, the budgeting is good. Maybe it's a little faster. You perceive it's faster, which is actually all that really matters. And so that's good because the retail media in store. I'm not like hating on it at all. But that's like the sort of thing from like 10 years ago, like how much. Yeah, pounded with right. Right. Exactly. If that's half of the proposition, I mean, that's the retailer and the brand proposition. That's not the consumer proposition. So you have to have consumers adopt this. Which again, just brings me back to like, yeah, make it an option if you want. And if you want to get some ads and coupons, like have at it. But making it like the size of this implies that they want all their checkout to be that and it makes me a little more curious. I don't know the Israel market that well, like, is there a real labor challenge here that we're trying to that's like more extreme than what we see in the States or in Europe that like that we're really having to deal with? Because then that would answer a little the question of like, why is this so huge or to your point, maybe it's just weird and there's no logic behind it being so huge. But it also depends on how you pitch the pitch the deal to right like yes, with the potential to get to 50 million to you know, right. Right. Right. Right. Right. We'll see. All right. Well, God, that was such a great show. I love the show. All right. Let's get to the lighting round Laura. All right. You live as you said in the outset you live and reside in Indianapolis. So what is one fun fact about Indianapolis that's would surprise most of our listeners? Well, I would hope that most of our listeners watch some of the final four. So they got to see all the beauty shots of Indianapolis on TV this weekend, last past weekend. But maybe the sort of lesser known fact is that Kurt Vonnegut, the author of Slaughterhouse 5 among many other books was born and raised in India. And so you get hints of that impact all over the city. There's a mural downtown. There's a restaurant, an excellent restaurant called Bluebeard that's named after his book of the same name. There's a movie, a art house movie theater that is just like one of the coolest places in India that's called the Can Can, which is also named for something in his book, The Cat's Cradle. So I would say if you are a visitor to India in any capacity, but particularly if you're here for one of the many conventions or large sporting events that we do so well, you know, take the five minute Uber to get to Bluebeard or to Can Can to sort of like have your Kurt Vonnegut experience. There's also a Kurt Vonnegut museum. I can't forget that. So yeah, of course, there's got to be. Yes, got to have a museum. So yeah, try to get home of his birth too, probably. Exactly. So yeah, so just keep that in mind when you're thinking about India along with all the other great stuff. All right, good to know. Good to know. You know, as far as well read as I like to think that I am, I have never read a Kurt Vonnegut book. I need to, I need to go out and actually I'm looking for a new book to read. So I think you just solve that dilemma for me. All right. Well, so now I've got a question for Lightning Round. When we were chatting, you mentioned your big movie fan. You listened to a lot of movie podcasts. What is your favorite movie? You know, Bill Simmons has his podcast to steal from the call The Rewatchables. That might be different than your favorite, to be honest. But what, you know, answer one of those two questions, I guess, your most rewatchable or your favorite. Yeah, it's actually for me, it's probably one of the same. So my most, my favorite, most rewatchable movie is The Sting with Robert Redd and Paul Newman. I love that movie, Laura. Have you seen it? I have not seen it. Oh my God. Yes. And I have my next cultural. You got to go run out. I got to read Kurt, run out and read Kurt Vonnegut. Yes. You got to run out and watch this. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's just that's Redford just passed away. But you know, it's followed closely, closely. It's a close one and two battle, Laura. So like, closely by Jaws. I think Jaws is just the perfect. That's another one that I haven't watched, but I don't know if I can. I know. That's a real, it's a gap, but I also don't know if I can. I know when I talk to, like my mom saw it, like when it came out. And she said it just like she couldn't go in the ocean afterward. Yeah. And so I'm a little like, I feel like it might change my life too much. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I show it to my kids. They were like, Dad, this is. Oh my God. Yeah. I don't think I could show it to them. Man, I can't believe you haven't seen that. Wow. Crazy. Okay. All right. Good. Good homework potentially. Yes. Very good. You got to do what you got to do. What you can, what you can stomach though, Laura, too. Yes. I didn't watch Jaws until I was 15 because I was freaking out about it. I hate, I hate the ocean. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I am not a huge ocean person anyway. So I'm sort of like, why would I add to that by seeing Jaws? I mean, greatest theme song. Maybe not ever, but it's up there. Yeah. But it's up there. Yeah. That's why you live in Indiana. All right. Yeah. The final season of the, so we're staying in the movie team, the final season of the boys debuts this week on Amazon Prime. Will you be tuning in? And I'm curious if not, why not if you are not planning to tune in? Have you ever watched that show? I have never watched it. I am familiar with it because it has a huge cast and I feel like in my pop culture surveying people are always like, oh, they're on the boys. So I've never watched it. I don't, I don't do a lot of prime shows. I will admit that just like it's not one of the places I spend my time, but I assume this means that you are a huge fan of boys. I am, but I say that with trepidation. It is the most violent adult show I have ever watched in my life. Really? I would never let my 11 year old and 13 year old watch it because it is so violent and so real. Really? It's about superheroes? Yeah. It's like bad superheroes and like all the crazy stuff they can do. And it is, it is, it is that more than once I've been going, should I be watching this? So more violent than like, than your typical HBO show, for instance. Oh yeah. Really? Yeah. I mean, listeners might disagree with me and please do if you're paying attention, but yeah. Oh boy. No, that does not sell it for me. Needless to say. I will let you have the boys. I didn't think I would. No, no. All right. My last also like pop culture cultural related question is that Project Hail Mary and Artemis to of course have space on the brain for me. I just finished Project Hail Mary of the book going to see the movie later this week. Would you ever go to space? Oh man. Oh, God, that's such a good question to you. Right now I'd say no. I don't think I would. I don't, I mean, I don't even like going in the ocean. So why would I go into space? You know, that's what I'm thinking. But, but like, I think if I, if I, God forbid if I were to make it to like, you know, 80. Yeah, then I'm going for sure. Okay. Then you're sort of like just let it all. Got it. Go into space? No, absolutely. No, I didn't think so based on this conversation. No, no, I have a lot of, I think astronauts that truly are like, you know, magical hero people have loved watching the Artemis stuff. It's amazing. They can see the moon and the earth. They've had a lot of profound things to say. I know a lot of scientists who study space, like all this stuff, a lot of respect for it. But if I think too much about space and the vastness, it like, it just physically makes my stomach hurt. Like I can't, it's, it's crazy. So yeah, no, no space for me. I'll stick to the Ryan Gosling movie. So. Yeah, right. Yeah. The malfunctioning toilet on Artemis is enough to keep me out of space too, I will say, but you know, but hey, all right producer Ella, let's bring you in here again. Which what, which headline won the show for you this week? I'm thinking it was probably the airy discussion. Am I right? Absolutely. Yeah. And I am honestly shocked between the debate between you guys, because I'm obsessed with this collab from a consumer perspective. I was reading the Instagram comments after they posted and people are saying things from like, this is the best day of my life to this is love airy in a feed full of AI. Thank you. And I honestly want to be one of those commenters because I totally agree 100%. I think just a note about the difference between retouching and AI models. Right. That's true. Because I think no matter what, no matter what every photo, I mean, even like my mother posting on Facebook, she's retouching that photo, right? I think brands, it's okay to retouch, but coming out clear publicly that these are real people. And it's not an AI generated body, especially with the younger generations filled with insecurities and comparison and all those things. I think it's just a breath of fresh air. So I think that's why they're getting the feedback that they're getting because no one else has done this. And I mean, the talk even on Omni talk, it's, you know, talking about AI every day. It's kind of noisy and you don't know what's right or wrong. So to hear this perspective from Aries just so on brand and Pamela Anderson to love her. Right. I'm curious, like, I know you feel that way about ads, I can tell. Do you feel that same way about product imagery on a website that uses a human being? There's a fine line. It depends on the product. First of all, I was a product design major. So when it comes to creating products and getting the imagery to just make someone want to buy that product, I mean, you might have to add a little AI and hear left or right, you don't just like add a shadow, things like that. I don't think there's a problem with that at all, especially because you want the consumer to think that's the juiciest, awesome as product. But when you find a person, go ahead, keep going. If the product is, you know, a shirt that I want to buy for my body that's on an AI generated model, it's not going to fit like that on me. So that's an issue. Interesting, which, which, which brings me into a whole host of other topics of like, you know, how much are these AI fit funders going to take off then if you know you're not confident in what you're looking at or that kind of thing too. That's why they've never taken off. No, I mean, that's a whole other. No, that's a whole other topic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, but that's really interesting. So like, so I was going to ask you, Ella, like, so if the so so you would be more likely to buy clothes at the gaps, let's say, as an example, if you knew all the models styling their clothes on the gap website were actual humans, potentially. Yeah, I think so. And that that's also a fine line. It's like, how do we know an Aries saying, you know what, no matter what, this is a real person, we might, you know, edit a blemish. But if gap, I have no idea if they're using AI or not. Yeah, I don't know either. Yeah, hard to know. So I feel like consumers, it's, it's great to hear someone say it. Laura, any final words on anything that we've talked about today, Laura? I mean, it's my only other thought on the product point. You were saying, I go, it's good to add a shadow or something like that to make it something that you want to buy. We've always had, you know, like food stylist, I just think about how they make hamburgers look so good, you know, and so we've always had some doctoring of some kind that is not what a McDonald's hamburger looks like when you get it. So, you know, you could make the case and you're right. I think if there's not a human involved, you, it's a different story. And it's just a product. But even then, you know, I just start to think like, don't we have, we have rules about that. You can't have false advertising either. So it'll be interesting what happens with that if we get AI really involved. So. God, this is such a great, I love doing this show. Like, yeah, what are you doing food? Like, can you use it? Can you use AI to show what your hamburger looks like? I'm sure people are doing it. And they're probably pretty well. None of us know because you're right. Like, we already know that it doesn't look like that anyway. That's a great point. Oh my God. All right. Well, Laura, we're going to have to have you back. Happy birthday today to Patricia Arquette Robin Wright and to the man who gave us Hank Schrader and Breaking Bad, the great Dean Norris. And remember, if you can only read our list in a one retail blog in the business, make it on me talk. Our fast five podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the week's top news and our daily newsletter, the retail daily minute tells you all you need to know each day to stay on top of your game as a retail executive. And also regularly feature special content that is exclusive to us. And we all take a ton of pride in doing just for you. Thanks as always for listening in. Please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube. You can follow us today by simply going to YouTube.com slash on the top retail Laura. If people listening want to get in touch with you reach out for any reason, what's the best way for them to do that? I would say find me on all of our favorite platform, LinkedIn, but make sure you search for the Laura Kennedy and Indianapolis. Surprisingly not. It is somewhat of a common name. So, but you'll see me. There's pictures on there. So yeah, find me there. Yeah, it avoids getting somebody in Dublin with the same. Exactly. Right. For sure. All right. Well, thank you, Laura. Thank you so much for joining us today. It was a real pleasure. And until next week on behalf of all of us on the concrete on behalf of Laura, Lucella and myself, as always, be careful out there.