Jemele Hill

Hey, what's up everybody? I'm Jamal Hill and you are watching on that note with Sean Stockman. Welcome everybody to another episode of on that note. This is the place, of course, where we speak in language. We all understand and that is music. I am your humble host, Sean Stockman. And today's guest is a Detroit native. That's one of the most important voices and multi-platform media. Now, if I get any statistics wrong, please. Okay. Don't read a lot of them. All right. You can read the very truncated version. Listen, I got to run the gamut here. Okay. That's a lot. I have. You've done a lot. So, again, we give flowers here. We want everybody to know exactly who you are before you even say a word. All right. So, here we go. Starting her career as a sports writer, she honed her skills and talent to land a gig at ESPN where she was co-hosted up two of the most popular shows on that network. Her fearless voice at the intersection of sports, politics, race and culture further cemented her role as a leading voice in national discourse. After leaving ESPN in 2018, she joined the Atlantic as a staff writer focusing on issues of culture, race, gender and sports. She host her own award-winning podcast as well and co-founded her own multi-media network dedicated to elevating the voices of black women. She released her memoir, chronicling her life, career and experiences navigating media as a black woman, speaking truth to power. Without her career, she has been celebrated for her authenticity, courage and leadership. She continues to influence conversations around equity, media, representation and the evolving role of athletes and journalists in social change. Even the Obama's are fans of her work. Oh, you went digging deep. Oh, no. I read the book. Oh, wow. You really did go deep. I read the book. All right. I just got uncomfortable with the question. No, no, no. Let me sit up a little bit. Okay. Oh, no, no, no. This isn't like a fluff piece. Okay. We're going to go in. But in a fun way, this is going to be a fun time. Even if we went in a dramatic way, it's fine. That's all good. She is a wife, a daughter and Emmy award-winning journalist, author, podcast host and cultural commentator and diehard Detroit Pistons fan. We don't talk about that. She sounds like it's winning, like it's losing too. Yeah, right. Wow. That's like her nation over here. Right, right, right. Not only beat you off for both of our titles, but thank you. Thank you. Oh, it's going to be a rough day. Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for Jamel Wa'Nita Hill. Okay. Jamel. Jamel. Oh my god. Oh, yeah. That's true. Wow. You know. I thought you said you watched the show. You watched the show. You know. I just felt like I would get an exception, but maybe not. Nobody gets it. Everybody gets it. Everybody gets it. The middle name. How you been? I've been good. And that was a very eloquently put together by, oh, because usually when people are reading that, um, what is it? It's a little embarrassing. Uh, why? I know this seems like a strange. It's you. I know. It seems like a strange thing to say, especially somebody who does television and podcast and gets to be in conversation with wonderful people like you. But I actually do not enjoy being the center of attention. Really? I do not. Um, well, that's kind of. It's kind of a dichotomy because like, yeah, you're in television. I know. So how, how, how does that work in the mind as far as do you hide behind the counter on you? And no, it's sort of, I love telling other people stories as opposed to maybe my own. And even though ESPN is where a lot of people grew to know me, before that, I had a whole decade long career in print. And so you write your behind the scenes, you tell other people stories, you put things in context. So that was a little different. And so ESPN was my first major experience with, I guess, being a celebrity journalist. Sure. So it was often quite uncomfortable to be in the spotlight. It's just, uh, you know, like maybe, uh, you know, it's something, I don't know if that's something you had to grow accustomed to. 100%. Okay. Famous all my life. But, but I mean, yeah, but even then, like it was one of those things where it's like, there's still some things you had to kind of like, take a breath with, like in a sense, what was that big moment for you? Um, one of the moments, one of them was when we, uh, won our first American American musical award. And we were flying back home. And our role manager at the time, Kyle Loha, round three, may he rest in peace. Uh, I guess the captain or one of the flight attendants told him, listen, it's chaos at the airport. This is when people could actually go into the airport and kind of hang out. And, uh, you know, he, Kyle Loha said, Hey, listen, you just had a heavy voice. Listen, when you guys get off the plane, just follow me. It's a little crazy out there. We're like, what are you talking about? So we get off the bridge. We go on to the, to the airport. And when I say practically all of Philadelphia, this is at the gate, it was at the gate. Uh, cause you could go to the gate back. Yeah, you go to the gate back. If you don't have a boarding pass, you can't go to the gate. Right, right. Yeah. Nowadays, but it was a, it was a sea of people. And they were just screaming and, you know, rooting for us because, you know, we, we, we homegrown. So it was nuts. And I had to kind of like, go, Oh my god. This is crazy. I was happy, but I was still kind of like, yo, what is going on? So they'd had to push us through the crowd, whisk us into truck and go like, it was one of the greatest moments of my life, but it was still one of those overwhelming things when you see that many people and they're screaming your name and, and, and, you know, it's high pitch. So it's like, you can barely hear and, hold on. It's, it's almost like it's, it's, it's a, you know, you're stiff, like you petrified almost because you kind of like, what the hell is going on? You know what I mean? So that is what I mean. And sometimes, I mean, can, can you say that because of, you know, the, the, I guess the, the nature of journalism and especially TV journalism that you got to custom to it fairly quickly because it, it is you in front of the camera, like, and it's really that's all it is at that point. It's only when you go outside. Correct. Like in the studio is comfortable because our studio is much like this. Like, you have a few people, you're talking to a camera, you're in conversation with somebody, maybe it's your co-host. So you don't see how the face is react because you don't see them. Like, I'm like, when you do a concert, you see how everybody reacts. True. And then you're not really in that, in that situation. So you're a little bit in a bubble. But then when you step outside and people are running up to you and they want to take photos, which is all, all great and it's very humbling. But it feels a little awkward and a little embarrassing. And I guess, you know, for me, I feel like I have the perfect amount of fame in the sense of, I have enough fame that I get cool, free shit. Nice. That's good. That's always nice. I love stuff. Yes. And like, I can, I can customize. What's the coolest free thing you ever got? Ooh, I guess shoes like crazy. Hey. I didn't get things. But those are fresh. Yes. And he was on a work trip. It's like, he's still sick. Yeah. And he was on a work trip. He saw him. He bought him for me. So, hubby did well. Yeah. Shout out to your husband. Yeah. Shout out to you. He is a cool dude. But, you know, got the new My Amores, got the Candace Parkers. I had three pair of Agent Wilson's. I'm like, you know, I have a very good collection of women's basketball shoes that are outstanding. Wow. Got the Cobies when they came out. Right. All of these were free. Right. And I just look at my, I read, and that's the other thing to me on TV. And you say the things you like on TV. And this organic, I'm not doing it to drop a plant. Right. But you say it organically in conversation next to you know, a whole box shows up. Wow. So, I mentioned this is something Sean. Yeah. Rolex. Rolex. It's so funny. Every time I, I shot out the four seasons, they never come through with anything. That's weird. Right. So weird how that works. Maybe they're doing it in this show. Give it a shot. Give it a shot. Yes. I'm going to throw it on the store and birthday coming up. And so I'm like, hey, make my I'm happy. But yeah, I remember one time, because probably my favorite gym shoe of all time is probably a deedistop 10s. And I love the time. Man, I look those used to go hard. They are. And I mean, I like them better than Jordans to be honest. Like, okay, they're, I mean, Jordans are wonderful shoes. No hate, but that's probably my favorite. And I said it once that ESPN on air. And next thing I know it has six boxes that showed up all different colors and varieties. I was like, that's what I'm talking about. It's good to be Jamel. Make this fame work for something good. So on that end is good. And I still move about my daily life pretty regularly. And it's really funny when people catch me in places. Like when I'm up in Ralph's, people are just like, you don't have security. I'm like, to get some. Right. Right. Like I'm not. You know what's weird. Right. He shops at Ralph too. I tell him to all the rich people. Oh, I'm. Raps is my spot. Yeah. What? And it is funny. Especially living in LA, you run into everybody. Yes. At Ralph's. This is so true. I run into Byron a couple of times. I've run into Kachino Mowgli. Wait, I'll get rich people shopping. No, he's Ralph. I'm being honest. No, there's not true. Everybody shall run. Say all the names. I can't afford it. Say all the names. Oh, I know he lied. Yeah, I run into five groups. Exactly. Say all the names. I mean, no, I'm like, I'm running to DJ Quick. You just saw Quick. I'm running to Quick. DJ Quick and Ralph Quick was getting some eggs too. What? He's getting some eggs. You know, it's crazy. I have to hang out at your Ralph. No, I'm telling you. It's, it's, but it's all over LA. Like you, like you realize who lives in your neighborhood. That is true. Based off of what Ralph's. The Ralph's. You still ran to Ralph's. I'm running to Marionne and his brother. This is like the most lit Ralph stuff. It is lit. It's a lit Ralph. I ain't going to say which one. No one knows why I call him. Yeah. It's crazy. Okay. What are the cons of being friends? So the cons is that, as you know, that people feel like they know you are not necessarily in the best ways. And so I think, especially given the nature of the topics that I discuss, racism, the misogyny, like things and how they intertwine with sports, I think people think I'm a super serious person. I think they think I'm unfun, which is why I love doing podcast like this because I'm like, I have fun guys. Yeah, yeah. I don't sit around like this all day. Like it is. Right. Right. I'm like that that happens that has nothing to do with the things I talk about. I take them very seriously, but I'm not a, I'm serious about what I talk about. I'm serious about my profession, my professionalism. I'm not a serious person. Otherwise. Well, yeah. If anybody that has followed your career, they know that you can have fun and you do let your hair down from the spots that you did with Mike and all the like, you guys enjoy yourselves. Like it's not all, all serious topics. And so some of the things that people say about you that can be a little disarming and there's always the safety and security issue of yeah, yeah, that's, that's tough to deal with. And, you know, especially because I want to move and be as normal as possible. Like I remember when, so I'm in the last three years, I've gotten completely obsessed with golf. Right. And so yeah, so me and my husband play as much as we can. And I needed to work on my chipping. So I got a bunch of plastic, you know, golf balls because my idea was like, I'm going to hit these in the yard, you know, like just, just perfect this a little bit. And the way our yard is set up is like, our backyard is like the pool in Jacuzzi. So there's no grass back there. So the grass is on the front. And he's just like, you know, you can't be out here doing that. I was like, why not? He was like, because you know, people go ride bad and go see we live here. Right. And you can. And then you can see the whole stuff that pops up of like we, the crazy thing that happened. I had put on Twitter. This is musically related. Me and my husband, we get into the most awesome music debates in which 90% of the time he's wrong, right? I'll give him 10% he might win. Oh, wow. Yes. And he's lucky. I'm giving him that. He's not even here to defend himself. I know that's why I'm getting away with saying this. But we had a debate about what was Debra Cox's best song? Was it? Was it nobody's supposed to be here? Or we can't be friends with Ariel. Okay. So I'm in the before you answer. Right. We sure. Oh, yeah. Well, no, well, here's the thing. First off, shout out to Deb. She wants to be on the show too. I know. I saw that. So yeah, shout out to him. Shout out to him. And he was just a dead. Oh, for sure. Yes. For sure. Um, nobody's supposed to be here is her biggest record. Yeah. Correct. Right. And that, um, I think my favorite record of hers, to me, was her first single, sentimental. Hmm. A lot of people don't remember that record so much. I don't know what Whitney. She did. She had a record of Whitney. That was no, no, no, no, no. This is this was her very first single. And Dallas Austin produced it. And I remember and maybe this is why I liked it the most is because Dallas let us hear it before it was released years ago. So when I first heard it and it just was a dope, it was to me, it was a dope record. Like that's my favorite of, of depths. But of course, nobody's supposed to be here is her signature. It is. That's like, ended the road for me and my guys. Like that's her record music is subjective. Let me just say this. Let me just say it like there's no right or wrong. There was her. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes is a wrong. But as far as like what you like the window, what you like it might, you know, it's all different. I would have to say nobody's supposed to be here is the best. Okay. So you're on the right side of history much like I was. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we have a debate and I put it on social media. I said better song and honestly, it became a bit of a gender divide. A lot of the men sided with we can't be friends as opposed to nobody supposed to be here. And, you know, I don't know. Maybe it resonated a little more for. Well, it would. It would. Right. Cause that's the whole point of the duet. Yes. That makes sense. So put it out there on social media. Next thing I know somebody shows up at our door and they're playing that song because they saw it on social media. They live in our neighborhood and unannounced showed up at our door. No way. And the only reason why my husband did not. Shoot. Probably. You're right. Basically you showed to my door. Right. I mean, we got them things in the house. Right. We don't get to twist it. But the only reason that didn't go much more aggressively is because he showed up with his daughter. Okay. And my husband was like, and we were both perplexed. And I'm like, why would you? And he, you know, he was, we handled it. It was fine. Right. And then he was like, I'm away till I see him later. Cause he walks around the neighborhood. We other than a high five, but we don't know this person. Right. So the next time he saw him, he checked him. And he was like, man, don't go. Don't do that again. Don't ever do that. You know, and so it, and it seemed like it didn't register why that would be inappropriate. So from that standpoint about the fame, and also about why I can't chip in my friend yard. Right. These are like sort of the little thing. Listen, I'm not complaining. I drew the lottery in terms of a life. Yeah. But there are little sacrifices you find yourself having to make. Well, I mean, speaking of your life, because, because, you know, you've, you've lived an exceptional life and asked for short. So we're going to, we're going to start from the beginning. I like to do a segment called we, we're going to go back way back, back in the time. Now you have a book first off, a memoir entitled Up Hill. Um, it's a great title, but you weren't going to go with that at first, right? I was, I know it was not the title I came up with that title. My book editor came up with, I, I give her all the credit because the, and I don't want to tell you the original title, because I might use it for a title. Okay. Okay. But yeah, they felt like the title that I came up with was maybe a little too negative. And they felt like it would be better, especially because this is a memoir. And obviously I have a complicated story to say the leaves that this at the end of the take away, you want people to leave with something positive, something they can kind of, that sticks to their ribs in a positive way. Yeah. And so that's how up hill. Yeah. I can see that. And it's a play on your, on your name. Yeah. I don't even know if she was saying that. I think she was just generally thinking about the journey. So clever. Yes. And that made it cleverer. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. So again, up hill, um, I read the book, um, Jamel humbly speaking, like, um, you, you've been through a lot. Mm hmm. You have been through a lot. So we're going to kind of touch on it, but I'm going to let you do more of it than me narrating it, but like between your mother Denise, who's been through a lot, um, your father butch, uh, your stepfather James, uh, you experienced a lot as a child, give, give me, give the people a brief description of your child. Okay. The cliff knows version. Yeah. Yeah. So obviously when people see you've made some manner of success, they have no idea the journey and what it takes to get you to the point that you got to. And so for me, um, you know, I grew up seeing a lot grew up in inner city Detroit. Both my parents and different times, uh, were drug addicted. Um, and my father, he was clean first. They were never married. Um, but he had a heroin addiction. And so he was clean. My mother, um, is a rape survivor. And so because of the abuse, um, the sexual violation that she suffered, that was what was her pathway to drugs. And then my stepfather, and listen, we're talking, this is in the, you know, the mid to late 80s, early 90s, when we are living in the height of the crack, epidemic everywhere, while my mother was not addicted to crack. Drugs were very much embedded deeply in a lot of our neighborhoods. And so my mother, it was, it was pain pills. And, um, though she has experimented with a number of drugs and in talking to her for this book, there was a lot that I knew, but there was so much I didn't, and especially the stories that she told me that was tough to hear. But I'm glad that I have the training of a journalist to be able to sort of separate and ask her the right questions to get her to be vulnerable. And it was tough, like asking her about the very worst moments of her life. But I thought it was also a very therapeutic for our relationship and gave me a deeper understanding. Like listen, but whatever my mother wasn't, I have forgiven that so long ago, because as much as she was going through all the things, there were still certain tent poles and important things that she felt like she needed to provide for me. I never worried about her love for me, never worried about her ability to provide. She stressed education and she was definitely the parent who had the mindset of, I'm going through it right now and everything you see me going through, I never want you to experience. And so your parents teach you what to do, but sometimes they teach you what not to do. And so she very much was that was sort of her philosophy as she tried to get herself out of the darkest moments in times of her life. And so her first marriage was to my stepfather James who contracted the HIV virus. And it eventually turned into full blown A's because again, the time that we're thinking about now, you know, it's like that was what it was. And so the advancements weren't there. The advancements weren't there. And certainly our education about that was not there. But it was something that he contracted after that they were divorced. And so he had to come back to Detroit because by that time he was living in Indianapolis and tell my mother what that he had HIV. And so for a decade, she had to get tested every single year just because of what we didn't know about how it works at the time. And then she was still in that window. And so that was obviously rough for her because then back then, just much like when magic made his announcement, we thought it was a automatic deficit. Right. Everybody thought that. And so obviously, you know, medical advances and things have grown since so that it's not a lot of people living very happily with it. But yeah, so I experienced a lot of trauma, you know, growing up and all that trauma, it was preparation for the things you would see later in life. And not that I've seen anything close to that. But that's what allows me to put whatever obstacle stumbles at diversity at face now in amazing perspective. I was like, oh, the worst is not the president telling me I should be fired. It's not even close. Right, right. It's not in the top 50 of things. I was like, what? You've gone through way. Childs playing. Right, right. This is nothing. You know, it's funny because that's why this I wanted to set it up this way because contact is important. And a lot of people tend to not really delve in, nowhere deeper than the surface of a person. They'll hear it as a sound bite. They'll see a tweet. They'll do this. That the third and instantly just writes you off. Oh, you're this. So a lot of people don't understand that we all have journeys and with journeys in which we're going to get into their soundtracks to that too. It says a lot about who we become as adults and why we take the stance that we take. So just that in itself, for those of you who may know even this much about Jamel and just maybe some of the things that she might be famous or infamous for, this kind of gives you a brief understanding on why this amazing extraordinary young lady is so tough. And, and, you know, she takes on the mantle that she takes on. But going back as a child, you witnessing all of that, experiencing all of those things. Obviously, it had to be rough emotionally. Music can be somewhat of a catharsis for those times where you need a little healing emotionally. Tell me some songs that you remember that would kind of soothe you around those times where you, you just needed a little bit of just a little calming down. You know, my, my despite the fact that, you know, growing up and Detroit as you know, Motown Sound and all of that. And so I was familiar with that. But the beauty of growing up in the time that I grew up in, I think a lot of people that I guess we would be Jinx that experienced this is that you were forced to listen to your parents music. Like now, just in the car, they can turn on their own, you know, they have their devices. They never have to listen to what their parents are listening to. Right. That ain't how I rolled up in my household. Yeah. Like you couldn't touch your mom was right now or her record player while she was there or a track or a track whatever. We haven't had an epidemic of music now. Yes. I think I personally, I think that that's you might have solved the problem. I think that is part of why even though social media has allowed young people to experience the music, maybe that we grew up in or our parents. But yeah, I mean, I grew up, I was listening to Tina Marie and Anita Baker from Detroit, Hill, yeah. Of course, yeah. Of course. Of course. And so even here, my mother who used to have like angel on repeat and like all these, like those are very distinct, wonderful memories. She worked in a record shop when she was in high school as a young adult. And so she then, I think for a while, I thought she was going to get into music, not as a singer, but more as like a promoter manager type. So she had a great year and talent for music in that way. And so growing up, listening to all these legends and even getting into high school, you know, things are still a little rough at home. There are specific soundtracks. Voice to men first album. Which one I'm going to be? Which definitely one of them. Let me tell you. Let me just get off on a tangent real quick. Let's go. I'm sitting here. Let's go. Let's talk about it. Next to you. Voice to men is the reason why to this day, I will never forgive my high school classmates because I graduated in 1993. Okay. What was the big record you all had there? End of the road. Exactly. What do you think would make a perfect graduation song? End of the road. End of the road. That's how it goes. What did they choose? What did they choose? Naughty by nature. What the hell does Harry Potter play? Maybe the hooray part we done. I was like guys. Yeah. But shut up to men and trash. Yeah, shut up to men and trash. That's just not the song. It was in that a road. Again, most of the class of 93, why did y'all do that? Again, music is subjective. It is. I mean, it wasn't about better songs, they're just different songs. And I'm thinking theme. Yeah. No, you know, it makes sense. It makes sense. It makes sense. Was that a big graduation record that year? End of the road. I mean, you would know, right? It was that. And it was good. It was too much fun. That got, I've heard a lot of people. Yeah, I've heard that too. Say that they used, it's hard to think about it yesterday as their graduation thing. See what I'm saying? Any of that. Yeah. And they chose hip hop. That's a big choice. That is a big choice. That is a big choice. I could never forget this. Against everybody. Oh, my. Exactly. I was like, wow, we are never beaten to allegations. We're just not going to beat them doing it. So I was so mad. Oh, my God. That's funny. But I think the early 90s, I mean, I just, my senior year, you know, again, I graduated in 1993 and y'all did a math clearly. I'm 25. Of course. Clearly. Happy 25th. Thank you. 26. So that, my senior year, I think, is one of the greatest years of music. So, you know, I entered a senior year, 92, chronic drop. Yeah. So all in one year, I think it was like chronic diarrhea of a mad band. You guys dropped out 90. We, why first? Almost 91. 91. That's what I thought. Okay. Cool. And then it was Shadeh's love deluxe drop. Drop that year. Yeah. Mirrors was the four one. One dropped that year. Wow. Like I listened. Because you're from music. Yeah. This was, that was everything. Here's what we need to do. Here's what we need to do in one of our episodes. Okay. Maybe not this one, but because it's too much research. We need to figure out. And shout out to ninth wonder who does this from time to time when he goes live on his set. And it's pretty dope. Yeah. Um, we need to figure out with each year in the 90s. This is why the 90s is so great. And this is why a lot of people think we're just biased to it. But you have to understand the quality of music that was being dropped in the nine o's. Like you, you, you can go from year to year from 1990 to 90, let's say 99. 99. Yeah. Like we're going to do a list. And we're going to make a list of each year of the Alms that drop historic. Oh, it's legendary. It's unbelievable. And the thing is because artists weren't necessarily releasing music as fast and as quickly as they do now. Yeah. In 90, 92, 93, we're still listening to your first album. Yes. Like bumping it like it just came out. Yes. Yes. It's 2025 and I'm still doing it. Yes. Of course. But I'm saying because they were able to breathe and ride that you could be riding out on the same album for two years. Real talk. And that's why you knew it. Topped the bottom and all of that. I'm going to tell you why, how the music is changed, right? The industry in itself. A year after song has dropped, it's considered a throwback. Mm. A year? A year. Like you listen to the radio stations. They'll say, hey, it's a throwback from 2023. And you be sitting like, guys, it was just two years ago. You know, it's already a throwback. A throwback would normally be at least 10 years. Yeah. But I'm already trying to cope with the fact that old school music is now considered the 2000s. I know. And I don't know how to feel about this. That's crazy. It hurts my feelings. It's crazy. It hurts my feelings. And I know. Even though I was telling somebody to say the other day, we, we, it's two times in 25, we go back to 1995. That's 30 years ago. In 1995, 30 years before that was 1965. Yeah. Oh. And when you think about it, because I think we relate to the 95, 65 more, we go. Right. Oh, it's crazy. That was a long time ago. Not that long ago. Right. It's weird. That's why we're old heads in it. Exactly. Because we would tell our mom and dad, you're like, you're old. They're like, you're old. They said 65. Like, are you kidding? Yeah. Yeah. And this, my other favorite voice to me. Please, please. We made it memory. Embellish, please. I will. Embellish. So what? You guys, you guys dropped two in 95. 94. 94, right? Okay. So you dropped two in 94. I actually interned in Philly at the Philly of requires. So I spent. About two and a half three months living in Philadelphia. Okay. Loved it. One of my favorite internships. Awesome. Shout out to the Philadelphia Inquire. And it was the only internship I've ever had where I rode public transportation. So I was living out because one of my girls was also a reporter there. And she was on like a two year internship, but she was covering the suburbs. So she lived in the date. So I used to catch the bus and the train coming into the Inquire on Broad Street. Yeah. That's how I used to travel. And then the soundtrack was to I listened to to every single day on the way to work. I was listening to it before and then, but that's what I was talking about about how albums used to be able to breathe a little bit. Yes. So this is like a full year later after it. It was like literally my favorite thing. And I just thought it was so cool that I was listening to two boys to me while also living in Philly. What were your favorite records on that? Okay. So obviously the big, the big songs, right? Let me give you. It's the be cuts that I. Cool. Thank you. Thank you. Vibing. Vibing is if you gave me a top 10 list of boys to me and song, Vibing is going to make my top 10 every single time. Not only our favorite, but Michael Jordan's too. You're kidding. That's his favorite record. Vibing was he listening to it on the way to games? Yeah, he would do that. That a kid. He let him work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. But no, there was one time we were in Chicago and literally no bullshit. Michael pulled up in his Porsche bump in Vibing. And we were like, I'm terrible good. Yeah, that was one of his favorite records. Is that ever feel weird to you that that's you? It's a bug out. It's a bug out. It's a straight bug out. But anyway, I'm sorry the lady was speaking about it. Oh, no, no, I was a speak more. It is more. And then, well, but I saw you all in concert for the first time. I believe it was, it was in 90. No, it was the same summer. You all came to Detroit. You played it. What was then known as pine op. Joe Oh, pine op. You played a pine op. The suburbs. The suburbs way out there. Yeah. This in Clarkson. So it's a little further out. And they've renamed it now. It's something else. But it's going to always be pine op to me. And I would never forget how you all do 50 candles. Listen. Yes. Tor it all the way down. All the way. I used to have this argument with you are like, of course, everybody loves Jotice. I mean, who's Jotice fans? But people. You should always try to make the distinction because of the imaging. Right. And I was like, boy, cement is nasty on the low. Quietly hot and low. You're just don't know. Hey, listen. I know. I know. It's a nasty song. Okay. It is. That's what it's about. Yeah. You know it's about getting to it. Yeah, it's about getting to it. It's about getting to it. All right. It's so. I used to add that debate. I was like, y'all just, I get it. Y'all looking at it. I'll make love to you. That's all sweet, but trust me. They got some grimy was coming. First album. Yes. Shout out to Tim and Bob. Did you call you back? He texted me. Okay. That's another part. But that's another. But I actually wrote that song. You wrote 50 candles. I wrote that record. I wrote that record with Tim and Bob. See, my voice to be a nasty list is like that. Is that what? Well, what was going through your mind during writing this? I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. I wrote it. You say, say the least, like my pen was sharp. So, because I was just writing every day. So, like, I was just kind of boom, boom, boom. And literally, me, Tim and Bob were in the studio, just me and the guys, the other guys were home or whatever. And we just, he just started creating a beat. He just started creating boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I was like, oh, that's easy. Yeah, I was anando, then started playing the keys. And it's really whatever the music dictates to you. Like, that's what it is. Like, whatever the music makes you feel, that's what you write. So, when he started playing them keys and that pad and the sweet, beautiful sexy stuff, there was nothing else I could write. But that, that's what I visualized. Is that why I felt like one of those nights? Yeah. Is that why? You had to shower when you were done. That part. That part. So, yeah, it's really what the music dictates. Like, it's a canvas and whatever inspires you as you listen, you write the first thing that comes to your mind. And literally, the first thing that I heard was take him off, roam down. Nasty. Y'all didn't know. Yeah. You had all of them, some little ties on it. People was thinking like, oh, I would love my daughter. Yeah. Your daughter's gonna be a trouble message. Hey, man. Don't let the bow ties for you. Yeah, like, no, no, no, no, I'm joking. But yeah, that's cool. I mean, again, the 90s was great. And, again, music is such a healing component. It's a frequency that, no matter what you go through, no matter, you know, how hard it is in life, it's a great elixir for you to just kind of, even if it's just for those five minutes, ten minutes, you're listening to the music, it allows you to escape. Are you of the opinion that, because I'm sure you see these debates all the time, do you think the 90s was the greatest part of the era? I think so. And again, people are going to say it in unbiased because let's face it, it's hand in hand with the 80s. That's what I was saying. Like the 80s is because the 80s was amazing. It was thriller. It was, it was, come on. It was thriller. It was Whitney Houston. With the Vandross, it was Anita Baker. It was new addition. Like the 80s was lit. Do you think the 90s gets the nod because more genres were lit in the 90s? I think, I think the 90s was when R&B music was added to highest height, commercial, where R&B wasn't R&B anymore. It was literal pop music. You know what I'm saying? And MTV helped with that too because R&B, yeah, R&B, R&B, yeah. Rest in power. What do you want to say to me? I know something was going to be. I was just, I never would have thought the music video channel would, I mean, they see stuff. They see stuff on videos a while ago. Like a long time ago, they just made it official. It's like, it's been, you know, dying a pretty obvious death. But it kind of sucks though because it's taken away the pageantry of music. Yes. I can tell you honestly, I rarely, there's so many videos I've never seen because it's incumbent upon you, the user to go to like YouTube and watch it. Yes, you have to. You have to watch it, but like I don't really care to do that most of the time. And a lot of people don't. I mean, except I guess you could say the kids who live on their phones. Right. So they look for those clips or anything like that, but I think that's the disconnect because MTV brought generations together. Like it is literally segregated because of the devices. Like everybody has a TV in their house. So say we're watching MTV, right? And we're watching a boys' to men video or a Jodasee video or a silk video or whatever. And the parents walk by, they stop and look and go, oh, I like that. You know what I'm saying? Like it had that terrestrial connection that allowed parents to let that play in their households because there was also some things we just could not play in the house. Right. But MTV kind of curated that music for it to be safe to be played in the households and stuff like that. When my daughter puts on her headsets when my son does, I don't know what the hell they listen to until later. And then they'll show it and I go, what is that? Why are you listening to that? What is that in a good way or bad way? Sometimes it's good. Most of the time it's bad because a lot of times either it sucks or or or or. So it's not even the language. Yeah. Yeah. No, like sometimes the music is bad. It's just bad. Sometimes. Sometimes the music is just bad. And I'd be saying like, y'all jammed that like that's that's that's hot. The other day I'm like, just garbage. And then you got something that is a little promiscuous or a little crazy and stuff like that and you got to kind of like, yeah, what is what do you listen to? My daughter said something to me the other day because I questioned my older daughter, Bri, who's almost 20. I said something she was listening to something. She said, Dad, you were listening to a little Kim at a young age. And I'm like, you got a point. You got a point. No, but here's the difference. Here's the difference, right? Yes. Every generation had their little Kim's. Sure. Every generation. The difference was the accessibility. That was the difference. I had to sneak and listen to a Red Fox record downstairs when he was making his nasty jokes and dole of might and all those guys like, you know what I'm saying? Like it wasn't readily accessible to me as much as the kids can just flip a switch or flip their thumb up and there it is. Like yes, we said nasty shit, but it was categorized. And again, to restauratio, you had him out of play it, but they played it at a certain time of day. Or the clean version. Right. Or the clean version. They still, there was still barriers creatively that, well, consciously that society made sure that, okay, yes, it exists, but we don't make sure we keep the kids. It's almost like when our parents were partying downstairs, you weren't allowed to go downstairs while your parents were partying because they're doing some adult shit. You know, so go on upstairs, get your ass off the stage. You know, saying like, going up there, you know, Uncle Julia is drinking his JNB and milk. But it was, do you also think too that there was more balance? Because I think that's part of it. It might feel a little imbalance. It was, it's way disproportionate because we are again, and we all had those throwaway records too. The one hit wonders, the nasty stuff blah, blah, blah, blah. But you didn't, you weren't like just flooded with that. Like again, the balance. Like, yeah, you heard that nasty stuff, but then, you know, Mel Bimor was right behind you right after that. Or Phil is hymen or Regina Bell or we had a chase there. What you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're chasing and you have more of that flooding the market. Now, it is literally upside down where you hear more trash, you know, let me stop. You hear more per mischievous music than you did back in the day, which is one of the reasons why, and this is my opinion, the BT Awards is gone. The Soul Train Awards is gone. Pretty, pretty much source hip-hop award, you know, all of that because, and I may get a lot of shit for this, but oh well, I'm with you Mel. So it's cool. You know, just remember y'all, I didn't say it. It's guilty by associate. But it's funny is I went on a rant like about a month ago on my IG and I basically said it's too much ass on TV. It's too much. From a heterosexual man, like I think it's too much because it's too much in a sense where I feel weird watching that with my daughter. You understand what I'm saying? Like it's weird being a parent watching this, this, the, a lot of the artists. It's almost like you know, especially specifically, you know, in this case, and I'm not saying because the guys are just as bad with the lyrics and the images. But you almost know it on a award show when a girl is singing and you know exactly what you're going to turn around and twerk. Hmm, you can predict it. You can predict it. Here comes, she's going to hit a little thing and then I'm going to see her ass and that's going to be the rest of the performance. And that's the problem. It went away from the music and it's more about really just. It's too sexual. Yeah, it's, it's the imagery. And let's face it guys and speaking from a technical standpoint, you notice you've worked in the network, you have your own network yourself. Consciousships is how they get paid. And I don't think tied wants to advertise their new liquid detergent on a show that just showed 20 women shaking their ass. That's not the demo. So a lot of it, a lot of people tend to catch feelings about it. Oh, they're taking away from black stuff and not I think it's deeper than that. I think it's because of what we're selling and advertisers can't get behind it. Like if I sat on this chair and started cussing and cussing and cussing and saying calling people names and all this other stuff, yeah, I might pick up a certain demographic, but that's just it, isn't it? Like I pick up this demographic. I can't go to this company and hey, hey, can you advertise? They don't look at you and go nah, I can't do that. My product does not, it doesn't like, it doesn't relate to what you're selling. And I think that's what a lot of what's going on. Like a lot of the companies are backing out. They're like, I can't sell Captain Crunch on a show that shows this type of content. Yeah, it's tough because I also do think to some degree, it's harder to make a award shows feel special like they kind of used to before because even with the lead up to the Grammys, like all the conversation, if your award show is constantly dominated by who didn't win, then to me, that says a lot about your award show. That's not making any kind of judgment about the people who win, but award shows just do not feel as big anymore. Be it the, like it used to be where it was appointment viewing and you knew when the AMAs were on, you do and the Grammys were on. Like it was all about that. And it's not just limited to music. I think the Oscars has gone through this too is that we are not in a time where people have maybe the mental bandwidth and we're the short attention span, microwave type of society. And I just don't know to some degree, those awards have outlived the usefulness of the moment. And that doesn't mean that artists don't deserve to be celebrated. They do, but I do wonder if the public is as interested in these things as they used to be, especially since artists today, compared to the artists that we grew up with and even yourselves is like, you would, your favorite artists might do an interview once a year. You might, the only time you might even see them as on an award show. But now artists have Instagram, they're out there constantly. So like, there's no mystery around any of them. Yes. And I think that's what it is. The industry, the entertainment business used to be more of an exclusive club. Like there was a, a, a mystique to the music industry. Can I ask you both a question real quick? Because Michael Jordan started doing the NBC thing yesterday. And I think I've told you this off air. I love the mystique of MJ. And I think that's why we, we revere him in this light still. Do you think what you just said and what you just said is going to affect his mystique by being more public now? Well, knowing a little bit about how Michael Jordan operates, he, I'm curious as to how much he's actually going to do because I think he does like that air mystery a little bit. He does. Yeah. And I was frankly shocked that he even agreed to do this much. Well, yeah, shocked, but again, not shocked. I think because of the money or no, no, because he needs it. Yeah. I mean, it's out there like the NBA suffered. Like the viewership is what downward 50. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's not suffering. It's like that was they did have a rough start last year. Yeah, yeah, it got off to a rough start. But by the time it rounded the corner from all star break, it was fine. And the, you know, they have a finals go to game seven. The NBA is in a real, I think the, the narratives about the NBA, demise are greatly exaggerated. Okay. And a lot has to do with the fact that people want to compare everything to the NFL. Only the NFL can be the NFL. You're not going to get, we do not live in an age where most people are going, it's going to be NFL viewership is usually between 15 to 20 million Sunday night is probably 20 to 25 depending on the teams. That's very hard to do. So to compare the NBA and say like the NBA is not going to do that number like ever, right? But where I do think the NBA has made a strongest foothold is in, they have much younger sports fans than every, than other leagues. The NBA and the W NBA, frankly, because these are tech savvy fans. Yes. They're highlight driven. Yeah. These are all things that are very social media friendly, important. So when you look at NBA accounts, like their social media following versus NFL, it's not even close. So okay. So it's not suffering. It's just shifted. It shifted. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Cool. That's fair. Yeah. So take the music industry, for example, you, you touched on the fact that the awards shows may not be as or or perceived as important as used to be. And I take that same attitude. I think the music industry just needs to shift. And instead of airing it, like how do you used to do on the ABCs and the NBCs in the world, just find another way to galvanize the audience and the people and the artists and the labels. Because I think at this point, it's kind of a domino effect. Everybody is kind of just saying, oh, well, this is just what it is. And we're just going to deal with what it is. And we don't care about necessarily actually making it where it actually grows again. I'm not saying that the industry is dead. I'm not saying that. But do you think it's in trouble? Because that's 100% of the trouble. That's a dominant part of it. I mean, look at the look at the the the record sales. They're almost nonexistent. Streaming is terrible because now artists can't eat like they used to. I just saw a clip of the list of executives as Spotify and make way more money than the songmongers, the guys that actually make the the songs for the platform that they're making money off of. So again, it's it's shifted the wrong way. And I think in order for the music industry to be inspired again, they have to have a reason. And right now you got some people over here trying to hang on to antiquated ideals. And you got the new guys that's just trying to rip it all away. And there has to be there has to be some sort of like standstill. But for everybody just kind of think about, okay, how can we make this work for everybody? Because we live in a world now where everybody is just out for self, especially in a music business. Like it's insane. And the music, the quality of music is suffering because of it. So you know, again, this is not a mystery why these award shows are being canceled. It's because a lot of the quality of music. Like even if you don't like it, you could at least hide behind the fact that it was good. And right. It's like country music. I never liked it. But you understand. But you understood it. Right. You can still hide behind the fact that, okay, that's catchy. I get it. Like I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Now my rotation. Right. But I got it. Yeah. I can. Okay. Right. Yeah. But you know what you know what I mean? But now you're kind of like, yo, I just can't. I can't roll. Yeah. It's like a, you know, we're having this conversation about songs that people love that you just can't connect with. Yeah. My mind is returned to the mat. Like I, I truly despise that song. Okay. But I get why people like it. Yeah. Because it is more like more. Why do not like it? I think that song is terrible. Why do not like it? It's just dumb. Like I don't know. I just, I just don't get it. It's the lyrics. It's the melody. But let me tell you something. If Jamil in the club or in a party. I promise that won't be me. You're gonna hit a horse. Come on. I promise. You are going to be like, there's a kind of turn. I heard it. That song is a beta by existence. I'm like, I feel so bad because it's like such a popular song. And I'm like, that's all. You've always hated it. From the beginning. It never made my place. It's such. It's the greatest novelty record one of them in the world. It's only a good top five. Your top five most dislike records that everybody else loves. Yes. Give us that. Give us that. Please. See, I feel so bad because he's from my hometown. Who's that Marlison or what? No, Marlison is not from my hometown. No, he's from England or something. Yeah, I was like, I didn't see it was British. I believe it would probably like Eminem Stan. I hated that song. Like I don't. He's going for it. Yeah, like I just, I didn't, I didn't get it. Shout out to Eminem. And look, he's one of the greatest lyricists ever. 100% super proud that he is from Detroit. He might even agree with you. He would not agree with me. He might, he might, he might, but like, he'll probably like, you know what? I'm trying to that record too. I don't think he would agree with his whole documentary was called Stan. Yeah. Yeah, that's the difference between being tired of it. And like, I was in, like, I just, it ain't never made a single playlist I've ever had in life. And never would. And just like, I turn to Max. I turn to Max. I remember saying, I didn't give, give us, give us, you know, that's a good question. Because I don't think I'd want to answer that personally, but yeah, this is about an artist. Okay. And I wouldn't say all of his songs because he, he makes some good songs and good collabs. But generally speaking, and again, as you said, music is suggest. I feel like I have to give, I have to give a whole. Disclaimer. Disclaimer about this because I don't want, I don't want to be tired of being a tacker. These people to come for me. Right, right, right. I just can't get it to the weekend. Like, I just can't. I cannot like, I'm 100% with you. Everybody loves the weekend. I get it. I understand it because a very charismatic artist, probably the only song of his solo song of his, I like, I like some of his collabs. Like, I think those are good. But was the one that was on 50 shades of Grey soundtrack. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That was that was that was a hanger. That was a hot record. That was a very good. I never worth it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not really. Not really. You're a jam. Not the audience. Sean talked early about audience. I'm not the audience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just certain songs that you get to the choir taste. It is. He is. And I saw him in, like I saw him in concert once at a small venue with Janay Aiko. And you know, I was trying to get up to speed because I do concert preparation because I think this is important, especially with the artist that normally isn't in my rotation. Sure. And listen to his songs. I was like, this guy is depressing as fuck. Yeah. Like, no. And so I was just like, I just don't get the appeal. And then in and stuff. I'm like, I don't get it. Yeah. You know, the weekend was very interesting in his beginning stages. And because again, he had a touch of that mystique. There was one time you didn't even know what he looked like. He, he didn't do interviews. He would go on stage, just pop up, sing his songs, everybody knew them. This was when he was selling his records for free. Remember, you, Pepe, he said, like, have websites. We could just download records for free. Like, this is when I was really into the weekend because it was kind of a departure from the traditional R&B. It was dark. It was, you know, from one artist to another, I respected that expression. Like, I thought it was kind of like, yo, that's just different. You know what I mean? Like, you know, he talks about drugs and weird sex and, you know, all this stuff. Like, no, like, I was into the, the, the art. And I was like, yo, that's, that's, that's dope. That's pushing things forward. And I think that's why I got into, to Abel. His name is Abel. But he's, he's no longer the weekend, I don't think. I think he's, is he just going to my first name? He's Abel. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. So he's a good actor though. Yes. Yes. He is a good actor. Like, I think what's he been in? He was in his own show. Like, it was a HBO series. Yeah. And I caught some of them. And I was like, oh, like, he really has some, but I could see him in a good actor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I just, he's an acquired taste. I just can't get there. Okay. So we can, all right. It was at three. At the run. At the risk of. Here's another disclaimer. No, these artists are coming on your show. Sean just. Actually, I'm going to get a DM for show. This is probably going to hit me. This is probably going to hit him to call security on me. Mm-hmm. I might be escorted off the podcast after I say this. Oh, no. We don't know. We don't have security. So we don't have security. We don't have security. We call your husband. Luckily, right now he's out of town. So he can't come get me. Just a lot of interview to continue after I say this. That's all I'm going to say. What are you about to set us up with, man? Okay. She about to say new additions. This is a song. Everybody loved. A lot of people did. It was out there. I'll make love to you. You don't like it? I don't know. A single person that ever has sex at that's all. No, okay. No, okay. It's a lovely song. Okay. It is. I understand why people love it. You've got to pull. Huh? You've got to pull. You've got to pull. Is that what you're saying? You know what? She's going to do it on her next podcast. She's going to do it. No, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I mean, not a poll, but like, well, actually, an unofficial anecdotal poll. Like, I have asked some of my friends, like, for real. Have you ever got down on a big lift? Okay. You asked me. I would have told you. I have. Okay. All right. Let's go. Okay. Well, first off, let me say, let me, let me, let me, you know, preface this with the fact that Jamel is from Detroit. Yeah. Hey, y'all, no one I'm talking about. I'm talking about the, the, the sprays are coming. Jamel, this is from Detroit. Uh-huh. And if anybody knows anything about Detroit, shout out to all of my friends. I got relatives from the D, like, my wife is from Toledo. So I, yeah, right. So I know the area well. So I got love for Detroit. Detroit hood. Okay. That's what I 50 candles exactly. All right. Right. See, you see, you see that? This is my heart. Okay. So let to be fair, I'll make love to you. There's a lot of people that made love to that song. They, they're, but, but, but, but, I just don't know it. But, but, but, okay. Fair enough. She's from Detroit. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they were banging Rome and probably a little jodicy and an H town and this is all true of Rome. I have that Detroit. But, but for some, but for some, and again, to, to preface that, but also to explain, I make love to you a lot of times. Isn't just the love making record. It's the preparation record. That's all I'm saying. I'm saying it's for the time. Okay. Okay. It's a set up. It's a set up. Okay. Exactly. Okay. No, that's real. Like, it's, it's a set up. It's a set up before that because it is. It, because the way it's created, it's, it's beautiful and it's elegant and, but the most part when people specifically from Detroit want to get it popping. Like I mean, popping, popping. That's you go, maybe you veer to more gritty. No, that's why you go to the kitchen. Right. You go to feening and, and, and freaking you. And, and, and, I will, I will, I will, I will, you, this is, cry for you is right there. Don't do this. But even that, even cry for you has like a, you know, a, a more, green like silk. You like silk. You like silk then. Of course, I like silk and freak me. Yeah. Knocking boots by H town and they might even throw a little hip hop in the, in the mix too, depending on, I mean, yeah, see, she learned from her, because she, she, she, she said that. She's done to do some LL. We are not going to meet the allegations. Um, you know, I do hard to say. But, but that's fair. Yes. But it's a love, but I recognize why people love that song. Like it's, it's beautifully written. It is beautifully sung. You know, it is everything you would want a song to be on paper, but I felt so bad because I love you all so much. And if somebody asked me like, Hey, what do you think is the worst boy's events? I don't make love to you. Okay. Fair enough. But, but you, you, you've also kind of helped me out in a sense where, because Jamel is, let us know that she likes 50 candles. So again, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a taste thing. I told you, I like this, this is our heart. It's, yeah, you have no, no, it's, it's, all the, all the slow songs on the first album. Just no skips. No skips. Okay. But since we're on that, well, she got to give us one more show. Okay. One more. Did I got another follow up question for that? Um, just to remind you got return of the Mac. Yeah. I'll make love to you. I'll make love to you. I'll make love to you. You got to stand. We can minus the, the 50 shades of grace. Okay. Yeah. You got one more. Stand by M&M. It's stand by M&M. I'm more. Just, there's a Luther song that comes to mind that, and I, I love Luther Vandross so much. I do. I do. I do love it. I do love it. Be careful. Here now, man. Couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. You know what? Couldn't do it. You know what? I might have to agree. Just. You didn't like that record? Not. That was my favorite. Was it? Yeah. Just. And here's why. And I could be wrong. And let me first preface this too and write a disclaimer that I'm one of your biggest Luther Vandross fans. You'll ever see. Same. And it had less of what we all knew Luther for. Maybe that's what it is. And I think it did well on the pop chart. But it was like a wedding song. Yeah, it was one of those favorite. One hundred times. Yeah. And I just think it, I agree it wasn't one of my favorite Luther records personally. I debated between naming that one or. She's one time. Lee it's another one. She's in Jamel. Like, hold on, hold on. I think the worst song on that one. I think the worst song on thriller is thriller. I don't think thrillers are a great song. I think it has the most amazing video of all time. It's the best video ever made. It's just too long. It's just. Jamel, come on. Thriller the song. Jamel. For real. You actually think like. Yes. Jamel was. That was one of the greatest songs ever. You can play this in a club. Right. And it will be played because the. The video though. And people going to play this around Halloween. Of course. You play this and put this in a mix of any song today. And it'll still sounds. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Like, come on. That's a bop. Like, you the groove Jamel. Come on Jamel. Okay. I love the video so much. The video is outstanding. The video is outstanding. It's groundbreaking. It comes with a routine. So of course they put on thriller. You're going to be like, you're going to do that. I will stay seated. But for the thriller. Sean, what year were you guys wondering about music albums for that year? Was it with 93? That was the 90s. But there was a year you were referencing. Yeah, I was 93. Because that was the year. Because the high school. Cesar, our awesome guy, he took the liberty. And I'm going to name the top albums and artists of that year. Tony Braxton came out with Breathe Again. Oh, he's. Janet dropped that's the way love goes. Oh, that's the new dog the doggie style. Oh, no dog did doggy style. SWV. It's about time. Mariah Carey, music box dream lover. Aw, smash on X. I dropped slam. Queen Latifah dropped you an ITY. Wu Tang 36 chambers. Two pops strictly for my tribe called Quest and digable planets. Come on, man. Yeah, that's 93. That's 93. Yeah, it's just, it's hard for me. And again, I love that I experienced music the way I did at that time because then I go, you know, right into college and went to Michigan State. And we were seeing me and some friends were just talking about this the other day because all eyes on me dropped when I was in college. And like, yeah, and throughout the whole, my whole college time, there were a good five albums that you walk past anybody's dorm. They're going to be pumping all eyes on me, Lauren Hill, for sure, outcast. Yeah. Is that also came out? ATL, yep. And I think that first one though might have dropped in 90. Which one? Yeah, about the playlist. Southern playlist. I think that dropped. Yeah. I feel like that drive. Yeah, I feel like that drive. I think so. You had a big E with life after death. Big E life after death. If the audience knows, if it was written, it was written, I'm sorry, I'm right, Cary Butterfly, JZ reasonable doubt match. That was 95. Alia wanted a million. That was the other one. One in a million. Black street. Black street, another level, Tony Braxton again, the secrets in the fougies, what you mentioned. And the the beauty of why you remember the soundtracks especially when you're a young adult, because that's like probably your first time experiencing a real relationship, fallen in love, you're going through all these multitude of personal emotions that all happened. And so I remember every heartbreak song, every uplifting song that like got me out of that funk, every like, okay, we about to go to the club tonight song. And so it was just I I agree with you as much as I love the 80s. I think the 90s was the slightly superior. Yeah, yeah, R&B time. Yeah, it had more, I guess you could say chest voice. If you know what I'm saying, like it just really at a point where we were speaking loud, like it was just a loud, beautiful trumpet for R&B music, like we were doing it. And we were reaching back to a lot of the old school stuff, which is why a lot of our parents could enjoy it too. Because it had a lot of again, we were forced to listen to their music. So we implemented a lot of that influence. Do your kids like the music? Yes. You grew up. Okay. Yeah, yes, yes, because they were they're also forced. Like my wife plays Whitney Houston. She plays the wine and she plays all kinds of music where now when she plays it, I hear my I see my daughter and my son singing it because we play it so much. Did that good parent. Yeah, I mean, you know, shout out to my wife. But so listen, we don't have to do a part two because no, seriously, Jamel, because I had a million questions, but it don't fit the context of what we're talking about. I'm sorry. No, no, no, it's all good. I gave you my hot tanks. No, I love it. I love it. I love it. And I know everybody's going to love it too, but I do want to like touch on a couple of things. Okay. You have conversations on vacation. Yes. Which your husband is. Yes, which we have now sort of reimagined into bedtime conversations. Okay. That we we drop every Thursday on Instagram. And you know this being married is like you all of these sort of debates and discussion you have with your spouse, they're can be really fun and really engaging. Yeah. Like we just did one recently about how, how do you know what was the moment, not necessarily a moment, but something that you did where you knew you were in love. And so he told me that he knew that he had me because he came to visit me. This is when I was still working at ESPN. And he came to visit me. I had a show to do that day. And I gave him the keys to my car and told him to, you know, I guess on some baby boy, shit, come pick me up your word. And that's how they, you know, come pick me up at work. He was like, oh, I knew when I gave, when you gave me the keys to the Maserati, I had to go. I was like, oh, really? Was it true? Yeah. No, that is what the, but at that point I did not, you know, I was having those, I was definitely having those feelings for sure. And I'm trying to remember was that the, the weekend that I, that I locked it down, you know, because I might have been, it might have been that same period. I was like, I think it might have been because he loves to tell the story, but it is true is that I did. I was the one who asked him to go with me. You're right. He had already put it out there. Right. Let me just say that. So it wasn't one of those things where I'm like, what are we? No, it wasn't like that. We had been actually, because at my mind, the moment that I knew for sure, like, this is somebody that I have fallen in love with is we went to the SPs and, you know, that, like, that's an unusual environment to bring somebody into because you have the world's greatest athletes, a ton of celebrities that are there. Sure. And working sports. Yeah. And I work as sports and as, as confident and as really self-assured as he always presented himself to be. And that is, I have had some friends of mine, colleagues of mine who have been in that situation. They brought a date to the SPs or some similar event and freak out. Oh my God. And it's embarrassing, like, honestly, like it's different. Like a girl jealousy thing. Is that what it is? Is that correct? And in one friend's case, she did run into a situation where the person that she brought who had a very high level job themselves in the political world. And so you would have thought like being around high, you know, like well-known politicians that this person would have been prepared for that environment and it turned into a competition. And he seemed to be upset that he wasn't the focus. And so, and then it was just a weird, vacillation between being jealous, but also being a weird fanboy. So it was, yeah, it was odd, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, pick a struggle is what you're saying. Yeah, right. Well, it needs to, but he apparently was both. It was disastrous and that did not end well. And so fast forward. So when I took him to the SPs and we were not public at all. And, you know, you're one around my work colleagues. You're around again, a bunch of superstars of various fields. And so I just wanted to, I wondered like, how, what's his vibe going to be like? How's he going to handle himself and all that? And he was the best. I mean, he was, you know, cool. He made easy conversations with people. It was definitely one of those where he's dope. Your husband's dope. He is very dope. Yeah. When somebody pulled me away and I talked, he found his own little conversation. Sure. You know, him and Kevin Durantz, Mama, like they have in the time. I'm like, it was, you need to have, be with somebody who can handle himself in those situations. And I was like, that's the one. People don't understand how important that is for people that are in our fields. Correct. Correct. And they're just going how to conduct yourself and just kind of just work, just be in the, in the moment without necessarily. And they don't want to work the room out. And they don't want to work the room out on their own, because they have their own personalities and they're able to just kind of talk and really just normalize the situation. And they understand that people are going to be pulling you away. Yes. But there's going to be pictures. Yes. And so I was just like, oh, he can handle all this. This is great. We had already, we've already had some relationship level conversations. So when he came to visit me and Connecticut, I just said to him, I was like, listen, I know where I am. Like, I'm ready to just do this for real. Like, and, you know, I'm not seeing anybody else or anything like that. And if you got some situations, you need to clean up on the side, clean them up. You know, I'm ready. Pull your broom out. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you need to, because like when we started dating, neither one of us were looking for a relationship, we were both pretty clear about that. But we, it was never a thing where I worried about him dating other girls. I didn't care. Like, it was like, because I'm me. That's why I don't care. Yeah, right, right. But we never even had to have that conversation. It was never any. And I never suspected that he was. And so, you know, it was, that's how it was. It was very easy. It was chill. I love talking to him. Everything was falling into place. And it just happened. It literally just happened. So it grown. Exactly. Yeah, it was very, very grown. And sometimes you have to meet a person at the right time to experience that. I totally agree. Like a lot of us have to get there in order for us to appreciate what's in front of us. Yeah. And I mean, and then I think from a career standpoint, I was in a good place because it's pretty settled into what I was doing. And once, you know, we made it serious and said, Hey, it's just going to be us. I mean, we dated long distance for four years. Yeah. Because he was living in South Carolina. I was in Bristol in Connecticut where ESPN is headquartered. But luckily, in his fields, like he had a very flexible schedule. So we were able to see each other quite a bit. So it didn't, you know, it was distance that we, you know, you have to be committed to that. But it was fine. So when we moved to LA in 2018, it was the first time we lived in the same city. And we went from long distance to moving in together. Wow. And he proposed two months later. That's awesome. So with all of that, right? Mm-hmm. Why'd it take you so long to tell him that you loved him? What's that about? So what is all that about? He did everything right. He went to the SPs. He hated that damn song. Yeah. Maybe he went to the SPs with you. He represented. Yes. And you still kept the three words. From your mouth. What is, what's that? What are we doing? We still are in a rolling argument about who told who I love you first. I, he told me that is my story and I'm sticking to it. Okay. And he's not here to defend himself. And he sure. Part two were having Ian on the show. And he would, he would definitely, I'm sure defend himself in that way. But he told me first and I, I stand on that. Okay. All right. But I just wanted, I knew before I told him. I wanted to tell him. Yeah. I knew. But I just wanted to. Women. I knew. God. I just wanted to be sure. I just wanted to be sure. Listen. I mean, it was the, unfortunately, the, the, the previous relationships you go through, you feel like you get a little wiser. Hopefully. And I was just like, okay, I think, I think this is the right time. You know, you just sort of knew. And. And I told him, lay the cards on the table, see? But when I asked him to go with me, he already told me he loved me. And so that's why I asked him to go with me. That was part of it. I mean, I knew when we were going. As he knew. He knew he, he, he was sure. He knew he saw you and was like, no, this, this, this, this wifey right here. Well, I don't know if that was the immediate thought. Yeah. You know, I was, I was, I was, okay, I'll give you that. Right. I mean, I'm a lot of first time I saw him. I had more lustful thoughts. When I saw him, I was like, none wrong with that. I was like, well, what do we have here? I wasn't on all here. There's nothing wrong with that. So he hooked me in with that and, you know, the rest as they, they say his history. But, you know, back to your original questions. We started these conversations because I'm sure you've noticed in our podcast fear that it's like there is some gender war going on. I don't know what's happening. But I think part of celebrating Black love in particular is people seeing that it is possible. There are healthy married Black couples out here that, and to bring fun and lightness. So like, you know, we talked about that and other things about, you know, who, I'm trying to think about like, who, it was one of the other debates that we had. But we've generally tried to keep it like pretty, you know, like fairly lighthearted. But also giving people a chance to remember the reasons why love is great, you know. I think we have one about who's messier men or women. Right. And he's like, it's definitely women. Do you agree with this? Yes. Only because you have a lot more going on. Yeah. So say you're going out for dinner. Holy crap. We got hair. We got makeup. We got makeup. We got this. She got that. Yeah. So just by design. But it's, say I'm like how you couch that I can tell. No, you, you got that, you get that marriage experience. I've been married 25 years. You see what I'm saying? Like, you got that, that, that, that was wisdom. Yes. It sure is. Because you guys got more, like you made that very, wisdom. Right. Right. Made that very gentle. Yes. We have these really fun conversations to the Toronto. Listen to the show. She says she does. She watches it. So that's why he knows. Oh, so that's what it is. So it's not that he's wise. It just doesn't understand. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Yeah, like on the day to day like we might kick our shoes off and leave them somewhere Or you know type of stuff. Yeah, but like you see by rolls on the on the floor Where the hamper's like two feet away Right, yeah, but you feel like on a macro level women are just because you got like he said you're more going on So when you're getting ready for a night out you've got 18 wardrobe changes. Yeah, it's a mess Hair and makeup going on maybe the kids need some help and you're trying to manage all of this stuff right Well my husband is also very orderly. I would definitely say between the two of us like I am I'm neat But he is a different level, right? Almost military. Yeah, I mean he like little things bother him like if the If the the pantry doors open like gotta gotta bother him Resonated with shot Oh my gosh like the pantry door is always cracked in my house and I always walk by it. Clue Yeah, he did he's like always the culprit all of them Everybody in my house they'll they'll open up they'll get something and then it does Just push it just one more inch when he first Fitting time in my place. He he would be like why do you leave your cabinet doors open? And I'm like because I'm probably gonna reach back in there like five minutes like whatever's this is a make and he's just like That is terrible. Yeah, how lazy is that he was like it's But yes, I will I will cop to that but these to me are like sort of the fun little discoveries of yeah You know being very because every day I learned something new about him. Yeah Yeah, every single day is like I don't know if you feel the same because you're 25 and we're just six in but no you do like it because We're forever changing and I think that's what We don't Understand until we're in it like Marriages evolve we change bodies change all of those things so you change with it and and with that comes new discoveries new things that you have to get Get to understand and get to know and a lot of it has to do with Your love for that person. That's when it really shines through because you have to really practice the patience and the willingness to Go through it with that person. Yeah, the pros will always want out way to come one of the people like people who here there are On the customer being married and one of Mary day always you know, they typically are gonna ask you like what's your best piece of advice and One of the biggest things that I think I probably learned That's very different from a relationship is that and marriage you if you there is a disagreement on the argument You have to argue and disagree to resolve not to win. Yes, because like when you're in relationships like Yeah, I'm just like we bought the game of thrones is bitch up here Right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right That can't be your objective. We're not enemies. We're not enemies, right? And that just can't to win can't be the objective. Yeah, it's like it's got to be like how do we resolve like how can I be better? Yeah, so that we are not in this Space of disagreement again, and that is that is very real and never let the sun go down on an argument You know people do say that try not to yeah, because you never know you never know You never know that is real if if you care knock it out Mm-hmm, and then go to sleep at peace. It just takes two grown people to knock it out Yeah, you have to have two grown people so what you're saying is awesome. You have to have people that understand that okay We fucked up. Let's figure it out and move on yeah, and and and that's sometimes it takes time. Yeah again patients Yeah, patients is the biggest element key element to I'll put on I'll make love to you You know, I'll be better The man who was available or return to the mat Yeah, I mean CC. Hey, you know, you want to you want to break the ice? At another argument just put on Mark Mars She she can't resist baby. She can't resist That's the Chico's is the Chico. You know me now you're obviously known For having austere conversations. I don't think any of this was too serious at all I think we had a really really great time, but with all of that if you were launching And on your network a totally Unserious podcast What would it be called and what would it be about so Just totally unserious. It's something that is by the way. That's a great name for a podcast Totally unserious podcast. All right. That's a great name. It's dying. Jamel and Sean. There you go boom book it I love it. Come on. Let's do it. There we go with the synergy today you guys might you heard it first Totally unserious. Here we go. All right. We're gonna knuckle up on that one. Bam. Okay If I had to start like a podcast. Yeah That was unserious. I would This is there's always an idea that I think every creator has in their head like if I could get this made this would be amazing so The name of the podcast would be called My arms are too short to box with this podcast Right and the wreath. Okay, please explain that the reason why is because I would do a rewatchable Tyler Perry podcast rewatching all of his shows and all of his movies and having on people to break down what we have seen That would be my unserious podcast I as a businessman I very much respect Tyler Perry, but his films create such an interesting dialogue in our community Oh, yeah, yes, and I am Fascinated by this dialogue and by this that's this conversation I would I would do it we watch every episode or of what meet the browns whatever the assisters all that we go through all of it Right like just a Tyler Tyler Perry break down of all of his work. Yeah, I would do that with actually have three very unserious ideas Huh, no, you don't do it with Tyler Perry. No, you just watch his stuff you watch your stuff and then you just Have a commentary and you have a commentary about it with people who love it people who hate it. Yeah combination of both Yeah, maybe even sometimes some of the actors on it like whatever like you can do all of those things I would do this We have a show for wifey. No, no, no, what I'm saying is she she appeared she would appear But you guys would get along one because y'all from the same area to Uh, we have these dialogues about about his work in the house. Yep see And I'm gonna just leave it at that exactly. It's just so much material. Yes, the other one I would do I think feel like it could be a podcast or a TV show, but I feel like more of a TV show, but I'm gonna say a podcast for this Is it good or am I high Okay, I like that is it good or am I I like that because give us a topic. What would be a topic? Okay, so music Music the whole point is this is like you have to take Let me set up the parameters you have to either smoke or take a edible before you do and oh my god and You either taste some food listen to some music and you have to decide is it good or am I high Right, so then you have to do it without the yeah without being high and then compare Like wasn't good or am I when can we go into production on this? Yeah seriously That's a great idea, you know, that's crazy. I love that idea. I saw it mostly as a food show But I did realize you're thinking about shrooms over here I did realize you could do it with other things you can really cross like TV shows because like there are some people would say like Oh, I was super high when I watched the TV show Didn't watch that shit so we're like this was terrible. What was I hot? Yes, you were right right? No, that's great. Oh, I can't have this company Yes On the unserious podcast starring Jamell and Sean we have segments called is a good or am I high? I love it because that's what you do. There we go. There we go see. I heard it first It's it's preparing in 2026. Yes. All right. That's that's dope. That's really dope and seriously. That's some fucking dope shit Okay, hit that out though. So nobody steals it before you guys Yeah, exactly exactly my happy copy and we'll run it back later. Okay, you get the band one phrase from sports media forever. What would that be um talk about Talk about talk about the only because if you watch the press conferences Um after games there's always a journalist said the run talk about what you were thinking Please talk about that's a good way to form a question because that's what we're supposed to do is journalists like I get it It's a very lazy way to start Trying to get like your job as a journalist is to come up with a question their job as the athlete is to come up with the answer So the least I should do is come up with a proper Question like talk about is not actually a question because a question there has to be a demand Getting you to answer something right what's the demand and talk about right talk about how you scored 40 What's that mean? I would man talk about band talk about so there you go journalist. Yes Stop what to talk about stop being lazy. Yes, stop you lazy global innovation is accelerating But how are businesses staying in the fast lane AWS AI is how like formula one Timing race action into real time insights and the AI momentum doesn't stop there From energy companies using smart grids to prevent surges To educators personalizing lessons to move at every student speed across industries worldwide AWS AI is how industry leaders stay ahead you are a Abbott Detroit Pistons fan I am not just the pistons by the way. Okay. Yes. All right I'm not a lion's fan. I am a red lion's fan. I'm a red wings fan I'm a tiger's fan Michigan State fan. Okay, and yes a piscuit fan. So where you complicit with the Jordan rules You may did I agree with them Of course I did Of course I did okay you would have you know there are debates with your spouses that like you you honestly can't have again Right because like it might lead to like some disastrous Right, right, right one of the biggest fights me and my husband get into Because he is a Jordan stand despite being a detroit And he like Michael Jordan's his favorite basketball player ever mine too He He was not a big fan of the of the Jordan rules And he thinks that the pistons playing that way Was bullshit basketball and When I explained to him oh the biggest argument we have was about the pistons walking off the floor After the bulls wiped him right think about that Like it was justified This is where me and husband get into a big heart and what way was I just to see everybody likes the point to the incident Talk about the context of this series. All right, so let me break it down so I can forever be broke all right Jordan called the pistons illegitimate championship champions because of the physical way that they played and he's like nobody wants to see that in basketball blah blah blah blah Yeah, why why why I punched in the mouth And That was the entire That was the way the game was played then but everybody wasn't the champions either Okay, so I mean the Celtics Where lead with Molly what somebody I mean They're the Julius Irvin Thy birds chain a few times. I remember watching Philly you see it your boy right right but he told me still okay, okay, but but you male come on like You would feel some sort of way about a team That obviously at that point was the greatest team in the world But hit you in the mouth four or five times You you what you It wasn't pretty damn close like you would you would you would feel away I think Michael Jordan should credit the pistons for helping him become a champion Because he had to overcome us. I don't disagree with that. Yeah, because like he Listen it was A style of basketball that obviously the pistons were known as the perfectors of this style and I understand that they are the poster They're the poster children for poster boys poster men for how that how the game was played But it was within the rules Okay, within the rules in the sense of okay that physical a lot more physical play was allowed then right Well, what would be what we might get you rejected today was just a common file then right that's the way we're and Yes, if you have somebody whose Special ability is their athleticism them getting to the hoop You make them think think twice about doing it. This is not Unusual strategy. No, I get I get it. I get that I get that and honestly to some to grab miss it Because missing from the game now No, no, no, no, no, I miss it. I miss it. I have to be that it was a little extreme. It doesn't have to be that extreme I think it was great and it was cool I'm I was a fan but I think it was fueled by the animosity between these two teams because When you have something that other people want and You know the business had a championship. They have been the nemesis of the bulls for a few years in But in the scope of that series what led to the walkoff was Michael Jordan trashing the pistons Uh in interviews and saying that they were not legitimate champions and Disrespecting who they were because like as much as listen as much as the pistons I'll just say this as much as the pistons may have been known for that. That wasn't the reason they would It wasn't They had a lot of other elements to that team. Yes They were legit squad without without without without when when he When he made it seem like they were illegitimate that's what created the beef and that is why When they lost they walked off. Okay. Now I I agree I agree and again, it was a different time. Yeah, you know for sports at that time But there were extreme mom like you could see the devil horns come out of Bill lamb ears. Hey Like honestly come on like you like like you saw I love it. 10 To just I'm not even blocking his shot Right, he like I'm just gonna kick him in his nuts or something like that. You know, I mean just because he was more of a choke slam guy Let's not get crazy I mean that you guys Okay, that's all right as a fan of the pistons. I must say as a time is one of my favorite players of all time He's my favorite player. Yeah, yeah, but You got it like even I being a of a I was like come on guys like don't it like you're making an obvious that you want to hurt to do like It's so funny how nobody ever remembers the Like Carmelo like when he split Isaiah's head wide open. I don't remember that. Yeah, he split it wide again I get that the pistons became the poster board that everybody hated they were the bad boys But I do also believe and this is something that Isaiah Thomas has talked about Then one of the reasons that the pistons beyond the style of play Invited such disdain or created a lot of disdain is because we interrupted the story Y'all it had this the whole basketball world had this beautiful story of we got Lakers We got Celtics and straight up the bulls There was a team in between and it's like we interrupted the transition and people didn't like the fact that this team from Detroit Which you know Detroit for a lot of reasons socially and politically was never a darling of this country Yeah, you know, and especially during that time And I think because of the way we interrupted the basketball narrative between Magic and Jordan that People did not want to see us weigh in you were the anti hero Absolutely, we were not The hero you may have thought you wanted but we were the hero that you needed the dark night. We were the dark night Okay, do you feel in charge? I can go there okay, Bane all right Top five Favorite athletes Well, we just talked about one. Yeah, that would be Isaiah Jerry Rice I'm a 49er fan so hey Hey go Niners go Niners Baybang 90 day And It's not just accomplishments either too is it's also I think You know kind of What they stood for or just what they were able What they what kind of happened as a result of their greatness seren Williams would be there she is the goat Of tennis like you with yourself. She is absolutely the go to tennis The only reason maybe like I mean what women Saying to my is a greatest female athlete ever is a tough conversation to have she's certainly in the mix Yeah, small biles obviously in the mix and 100 I mean, and it's just like especially when you get in a track and feel like good lord. That is like yeah, that's a crazy conversation Who's your goat and track and feel? Oh On the website yeah Hmm trying to think of who has the most stuff what I mean I got Jackie join a cursi problem I think it only have to be her um-hmm gave you Jerry Rice serena Um Muhammad Ali of for sure. Yes, I actually have a picture that's in my living room Muhammad Ali kiss me on the cheek I have that on there. Yes, that's amazing by most prize sports possession. Yeah, if you will it is that photo um I do think bow jacks is the greatest athlete I've ever seen. Hmm. I think this is the case. Yeah, honestly who's right there with him as her She'll walk her like that I was insane But bow Jackson You know with the hip injury ending his career. Yeah, like that guy was Something you never seen before. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think do we see things? Do we see more? I've never seen that before is now and I don't Maybe I only saw it recently and it was five days ago when show hey o' tawny did what you're right show Hey was yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's it. Sports history show. Hey was yeah Yeah, he's now talking about his one of the greatest. Yeah, you go six shut out innings He could have gone a complete game. He went six shut out 10k's hit three home runs in the same fucking game Yes, I say we'll never see that again. I don't think that you can compare that like I know people are like oh Babe Ruth Babe Ruth to me is not his competition Because if you to me if you didn't play in an integrated league That eliminates you from that discussion. Is there a video of Babe Ruth playing? I've never seen it. I mean there's some like Yeah, it's always better But he's a legend of the game, but I mean come on. We're talking about the infancy of the game This is the most it's 110 years in now Is it and see I think it's like a different discussion with Babe Ruth as opposed to say will chamberland like because people like to Sort of say that will chamberland and Bill Russo You know played against plumbers and janitors and yeah, whatever. Yeah, that's about to say but will chamberland his physical Mess Dricks. I don't care what era is in we can fast forward to 2060 Will chamberland still will chamberlory right seven feet running a sub four five you got to be kidding me That's crazy like it's like you know the comparison I give that to guys when we talk about the plumber janitor talk It's like now saying that WMBA doesn't have great athletes because They also might have side jobs in the offseason the game is just not Financially there yet. It wasn't financially there when they played yeah, but the talent was that's not a new It's a talent but they were still very to go back and watch pistol peat in those guys they could play fucking basketball They could I mean these girls today can play basketball. I mean there's definitely some nuances with how the game is played But I do think that because it wasn't as much of an aerial game on the inside That's why people have a tendency to knock the 80s and they look at somebody like Craig Elo like Jordan was being guarding I like people like Craig Elo and that's why he was yeah But then but then there's gonna be another generation That's gonna talk about all you guys used to shoot a threese So what makes him so great nobody's ever happy But you know, yeah, you know, I'm saying like there's gonna be a new generation is gonna look at the generation before And I was like oh y'all didn't you know all y'all do was just launch it from half court I will say Victor with me y'all is something I've never seen before I have never seen that mean either like that's a little lanky dude Like I mean like when I watch him what do you guys seeing him that you go he's special Not everything outside of his length his defensive His defensive intelligence is very high and I would be shocked like till he got hurt I think he was totally on track to win defensive player of the year It's a big difference between you if you have size and length But do you want to play defense he wants to play I just seen Sean Bradley a manupal and these guys come who we're very tall no, but he is no no saying that's a difference Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like his athleticism is far superior Just doesn't enough correct. It's like I he every dog Looks like something abnormal because he's so tall. He's not jumping. He's not even jumping Right right he's got the outside shooting. He's developing his post moves like this kid I mean he's gonna win a MVP within three years He's gonna be in the conversation for MVP this year. I got I got I got one question as you'll know what I mean Are you any good at monopoly Am I good at monopoly The way I will bankrupt you and not feel any sense of Here we go here we go. I will crush your soul your spirit Generations will feel this pain. I will bring to you already already know Jamel is the type That always goes for the blues and the greens and the yellows She doesn't understand the true value of the purples You know I'm saying the light blues Real in the real roles of breaking them. I mean, she seems like the time she seems like high-end So she's gonna buy vent her she's gonna be Yeah What are the percentages like I've looked up the percentages of of people actually landing on those properties? It's very low. It's very low. It just feels good to get but it's very low If you want to ruin somebody's life to me the the ruin your life properties are the red yep And I and I I would almost that corner. I would say But I would say you're paying me money But I think the more dangerous swing Is the red the yellow and the red those painful that's a painful yeah red red yeah because when you look at what That price point is you can one shot somebody with a red property This is just done it'll break you see the thing about the purples because you're talking about what but Baltic st Or St Charles and right and all that rather um It's like you can hit that and pay your way out slow death. It is it is death by a thousand paper cuz yeah It's like for sure But it's one of those where it sets you up for the next block because if you play once either the New York's the oranges or the purple You pay once on that you're like okay. I made it right there's no way you're gonna make an unscathed through the next The next block with the yellows and the in the reds and the whole tells on that it It's back yeah, yeah, no, I baked wrapped it my mama several times and I don't care another segment on our unserious podcast Jamel and I playing monopoly and we make it where you know how people like play it should do a chess moving and Wait the next day same thing roll the dice I feel like if if we really want to bring ultimate violence to the totally unserious podcast let's go We play the ultimate violent game and that is Uno Oh, no, oh, no, it's the most like let's go. Oh, no took the title from spades if you want to see Yeah, if you want to see Yeah, yeah, and it was that that rumor that got out that Vegas was gonna have a They need extra security. It's gonna be a lot of fight. It's gonna be some scratch. It's gonna be a lot of scratch Right, cuz we're gonna say there's the rule agreement. Yeah stacking and it's like, yo If you put too many draw for us down on me, I'm swinging out Right I'm swinging. Yeah, I seen fights at poker tables. So imagine Like Uno. Oh, no, yeah, what it would be and the thing is like because it's a game play by all age groups You just you would find yourself and like why am I choking out of seven-year-old? Like this is probably not a good idea Because owner brings that personality I Made it show kids you like you know, I will deserve you right right right right right like what do we know oh? We've had some of those in our house too. It's it's terrible. Okay, cool. So there you go. There's another segment on the unserious Game segment there we go a game segment. Okay What's your favorite restaurant in a lay or period period? Oh, man, it doesn't matter. Okay, anywhere in the world cuz I know you like to travel. I do That's gonna be in a part two when we talk. Oh But see that's maybe that's part of is a good or am I high? I just went here It's a new spot because there's new spots opening and downtown Detroit all the time A spot called Baru Baru This is in downtown Detroit Harmony Park. Okay, and they do a 24-hour season jerk chicken. Oh my god When I tell you When I tell you yeah, that sounds amazing that was excellent. It's a new spot that open and but it's I will say It's my favorite latest place that open. Okay, because it was just we be here Baru. Baru. Baru. Baru. Okay, um come to see you Detroit and they also have a lobster fried rice Yeah, let's let's go. We're not little chunks of lobster big chunks of huge claws that are in the lobster They don't skip they messing around. Okay, cool. Yeah, one thing about Detroit. We believe in big portions and two finger two finger pores. Let's go The real is nobody see that's why fucks it. Detroit anyway. Um, so you're Baru. Uh-huh. All right That's table and you're having your meal You look at the entryway In walks The younger version of you She's been looking for you Trying to figure out You know what the future looks like what's going on like I need some wisdom just to Understand what my life is gonna be about so she sits across from you She grabs some of your Rice and lobster and all that and draws back a nub but okay, I could do whatever No, but it's okay. It's okay. It's you. It's okay. She gets it. She doesn't take a person. I can't chop her figure off I need him later. She doesn't take a person Um She's looking for some wisdom What would the older Jamel Juanita Say to the younger Jamel Juanita Um, first let me commend you for asking this question in the most unique way I've ever been asked this and uh As a journalist it's pretty hard to ask me questions I haven't been asked before and certainly in a way that I always remember So I appreciate that shout out to you for that excellent hosting. Thank you. What I would tell her is your dreams are too small That's what I would tell her Because a lot of the times especially at that age we think our dreams are big and then when you go on to accomplish things Because who I was at that moment would never have imagined Anchoring Sports Center wouldn't have imagined winning an Emmy would not have imagined winning in double ACP image awards Would not have imagined having my own podcast wouldn't have imagined having My own home in LA like none of those things were even on my vision board. Yeah My dream then was to make $50,000 a year And to work for Sports Illustrated you so Midwest It's 50 the number you so Midwest I'm telling you so my wife My wife was the same way she just wanted to find a guy that had good benefits Where to FedEx good government job or something like that was she can live somewhere nice and Toledo or move to Detroit or something like that You said I didn't mean to interrupt you, but you just sound as so yeah, I guess not of that thing about it That's so Midwest that is such a Midwest yeah, but go ahead is there a filling number? Is there a number that you I don't know there's a number Like 52 yeah, right right here, but yeah, we probably 45 But yeah, y'all we'll be happy we'd be happy with that but no go ahead So I say that you know, I've traveled to probably over 40 countries that is not something I thought about then and so What I would say to most young people is your problem is not that your dream is too big your problem is your dream is too small And so I would tell her You need to dream bigger and then you need to go back again and expand that and then you need to go back again and expand that You need to expand it probably about 10 times Because that's about what you're about to do that's so full Well, let me say this you are extremely important To to culture Um Media culture, you know journalist culture Because you know you hold the mirror to society Like and of course that's never going to be a welcome thing The hard life you chose and I Commend you For taking that helm up because Watching you from a distance and seeing you from time to time, you know, we'll see each other Yeah Off camera I'm about to ask you for his route But um generational liberty is just as important as generational wealth And that's a bar and no that's a bar right there, but but you're living the bar And and that's what is so amazing about you it was an honor you sitting here because You are more than what People paint you out to be Like you are an incredible human being outside of an amazing woman and an amazing black woman who Through all of your circumstances and in all the things you went through You still managed to still have a a focus and a dream that you pursued Throughout all of your to you know trials and tribulations You have a story that Is admiral to not just girls but boys too And again reading a book Learning about you. This is the the blessing that I get By doing this podcast because I get to Be at my spirit gets to get filled by other spirits that teach me things And show me things and talk to me about things that I wasn't privy about before I talked to you You're a blessing to us. You're a blessing to everybody that pursues any type of dream ambition or anything like that. I urge everybody to please read her book Please follow her listen to her She is more than just a sports journalist She's a woman with a level of understanding about life and wisdom That everybody can clean something from Um, please continue To comfort the afflicted And afflict the comfortable you did definitely read my book I will that's a bar. Yeah I wish I came up with it, but yeah, that's a real bar though. That is like so I thank you Thank you for for blessing us with this conversation. We got to have a part too because I think I might have asked two questions I might have asked too quite I got a bunch of quit and I might have asked to And we can't with three podcast and we can't with three podcasts. I get this This is no this was a wonderful experience and thank you. I'm very honored by all The things that you said about me. I think I will always feel like when I hear those things like they got to be talking about somebody else No, she knows you so I do I appreciate that and I mentioned before about how I Struggle being the center of attention, but one thing I am learning to do at this wise old age of 25 is to learn how to receive Yes, receive receiving that Because it does lift my spirit because you're right. It is not an easy journey Um, it does get hard sometimes and there are days where I'm just like, oh god. Why don't you bless me with a little less dignity and respect for myself because I have so much more money Right, right, right, right, um, and so that's always the fight that we We the cross we all have to bear and that's always the the struggle in the fight is maintaining your integrity and your character Despite so many things pulling you in the opposite direction. Yeah, and that would be more lucrative or More get you more famous or all these other things. I know you went through that and so why on it? So it means something that people who I respect and who I like um Recognize those qualities in me 100% that means I'm I'm doing something right Jamel always remember that it is just as much of a blessing to receive As it is to give that's a blessing to actually receive Like that's just as important as giving So just always remember that you matter. I just want to let you know you do matter you matter Like to do do not ever think when you ever feel those moments Just remember this conversation you matter We need juggernaut's like you Like you're extremely important to the to the ethos of of not just journalism but just In standing for something Because just like you said I could have just went to easy route and made 10 20 times more money, but it was much more what then you have now, but first off I know based off of what you drive and you okay But you drive and you stop it raps You're good I'm a girl dead so Women like you who Show that you can have it all your marry got a beautiful husband and beautiful family But you still have your life you still have your career you stand on your morals you stand on your your your high ground Yeah, and that's good for my daughters and what they get to see Because we turn them on to people like that's right We we we need you so keep doing what you're doing ladies and gentlemen. Please give it up for my friend miss jimel Hey y'all and that was on that note. Hope you guys enjoyed it and if you did Here's a couple more videos for you to check out do not forget to like comment and subscribe