Andre Ward Hall of Fame boxer reveals his unlikely path to the top from the streets of Oakland to overcoming addiction, battling adversity to winning championships, the undefeated fighter talks retirement, respect and finding faith in the darkest place.

Andre Ward went out on top. He was 32-0. We could all tell he had more in the tank, but he wanted to walk away under his own terms. And most days, he's good with retirement. But then there are the other days where he wants to step into the ring, have the ref alert the judges, and then hear the bell ring because he knows then it's up to what him and another man are made of. As we sit and talk, he takes us back to the bay where boxing truly gave him everything. And at one point, he'd actually walked away. But it was a chance encounter with God that brought him back to all the things he loved. He talks about his parents and the trials of his upbringing, having young kids and the strength of his wife, and also how his childhood affected his parenting. And the whole while he's telling his boxing stories, you can see he still got some juice. I mean, at one point, he actually told us that he could still rumble. But there are specific reasons he walked away. He made all the money he needed. He'd accomplished all the goals he'd set out to. And honestly, he's living a pretty dope second act. And thank God he is, because he would be wearing out his pastor and former Raiders running back, Nicola and Kaufman, if he wasn't. This is one that's been in the making for a long time, and I'm excited. And so now, as Andre Ward sits with Chan, Freddie T, and yours truly, I want you to really enjoy one of the best to ever do it. Andre, Son of God, Ward. Hold up Boy, a red A pretty red man You going viral again, huh? You can't help it They always grab me You know you going viral? I don't even look at this stuff. You ain't paying attention? No, I don't look at it. You start fires and then just walking away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I throw the massive slide. Man, it's wet right now. And then we got to deal with it. Always. Yeah, then it's like, RC, what happened? Hey, I'll be like, I'm on his side. Whatever he say. They said years ago, Chan going Chan. That's been the thing. I'll be looking at y'all face when he start going. Like, like, like, Kevin Hart. Man, I seen that one too, bro. I'll be looking at y'all's dollars going down. But the thing for us is, though, some of these stories and, like, some of these things, we already know about them. Yeah. So once it starts, we just sit back because we know what the rest is going to look like. But when you got somebody like Kev, though, him playing into it with Chan was perfect for him. He wants you to ask him more questions. Brother, do you hear what you're saying? Why are we talking about this right now? I'm wide open. Man, Andre Ward, man, welcome to the show. Yes, sir. This is Fred Taylor, Channing Crowder, Ryan Clark, PivotFam. Thank you all for pivoting with us. I mean, a man that retires undefeated. You have to be a bad man. But to be able to do that after 120 amateur fights, coming from where you come from, the adversity you've gone through, turning into the man that you've become, I think it's just a truly inspiring story. So I'm really excited to have this conversation. Trey, I want to ask, like, a question to kind of start this that may be off the beaten path. Coach Tomlin would always say this to us, and I heard you say it, that boxing was what you did. It wasn't who you were. What does that statement truly mean to you when you're one of the greatest boxers of your era? Yeah, I think sometimes people misconstrue that as like, you know, that I'm not all in with what I'm doing. I'm grateful for my father when he was living and then birds, you know, planting them seeds in me. At a young age, I mean, before shut up and dribble was a thing, that was my mentality. Like, don't just tell me to shut up and fight. And before I even knew what business was, before I even knew what my identity was, like, these are the stuff that was, like, being drilled in me as a kid. Like, hey, man, you more than just a fighter. Didn't get it, but I started saying it. And then I started living it. Hey, man, this is what you do. It's not who you are. I'm like, what you mean by that? I mean, God got other things for you to do. This is just a vehicle. So I started talking about it before I understood it. But then I started, when I started understanding it, then I got empowered. where I appreciated my craft, I trained, and got ready like no other. Man, I don't... Man, there's nothing else I could do to prepare for each fight that I did. But it really empowered me when I started understanding that, man, it's life after this. So you better make the most of it now, because that door is going to close, and you don't want to have no regrets. Oakland in the 90s was crazy. Like, you see clips and all that different stuff. You were a young kid. Was there anything you saw that scared the hell out of you that motivated you enough to say, I can't fail at this boxing thing? I think one of the scariest things that I've ever seen is my parents have to battle addiction inside the house. You know, my father, man, he was a man's man. He was a great man. But, you know, he got bit by that bug in the 60s and 70s, you know? And heroin was something that he had to struggle with for many, many years, functional. My dad wasn't a junkie, but he had to contend with it. My mother, she actually was a full-blown addict for many years. She good now, man. Gave her life to the Lord. She clean, and she and my family's life is a blessing. But seeing that, that's one of the most hopeless feelings that I've ever had as a kid. And it's something that you never want to see again. Seeing your mother not be able to stop doing something or seeing your father under the influence of heroin as a kid trying to process that, that's probably one of the scariest things I've ever had to do. It's crazy to ask this almost. to see that side and to know how much you got to do to be who you are. If they weren't addicted to drugs, would you be an undefeated boxer now? Because were you pushing that way so hard that you couldn't, you knew what that was, I'm going this way. I do believe I would have still did it because, you know, some of the stuff that I feel like I have, like them intangibles, that other stuff, that stuff been in me since I've been a baby. before I ever seen that my parents have to struggle with drug addiction. Like, I hate to lose. Like, I work real hard. Like, I gotta win. Like, for me, it's like, it's like win or die. And to the average person, it's like, come on, bro, really? But to me, it was like, to sit there on a Sunday and have to think about what happened on Saturday, knowing that I gave press roll and fans and my opponent the opportunity to really say he didn't do it, that was like a form of death to me. So I've always had that. I'm a sore loser. And as a kid, I was a sore winner, too. I win, but let you know about it. But I think just seeing that, I don't know what it gave me, but it definitely affected me, and I'm still trying to process the ways that it affected me. The question he asked is about, you know, how much you had to push away from it. But also, there's a level of maturity that going through those things and seeing those things gives you. When was the first time you were able to digest or truly comprehend that your parents were dealing with addiction? My story's a little bit different, right? You see a lot of young guys come up with just the mother in the home and the father not there. Mine was the opposite. You know, I'm in the East Bay. My mother was out here where we're at now, San Francisco, you know, Hunters Point area and Third Street, around that area. And I just, you know, like I was that kid in the window waiting for my mom to come. Yeah. You know, my dad, you know, like, man, she said she's going to come. You know, and I would see her when she did show up, she would show up. And a lot of times she got to sleep off the lifestyle and the dope and stuff like that because she'd been ripping and running. So she need three, four days of sleeping. Then she'd get up. She got to eat because her body craving nutrition because she's in the streets. She's on the streets. And then she would leave again. You know, that's when that stuff really started hitting home. And then on my father's side, when we lost our home because he had to go back into a program, like he was on again, off again. That's when that stuff really starts hitting home for you. And it's not just something that your family talks about or whispers in the family. It's real now. So mom dealing with what she dealing with and my dad losing that home. My dad was Superman. My dad ain't never lost nothing. So for him to lose our home and I got to go move in with my trainer, that hit different, man. Are there any lessons that you can really look back on that guide your principles and who you are as a man, a fighter, as a father, any of those things? From your childhood? My dad, man, like I said, he was a man's man. You know, he's the type of person that's like, man, somebody walk in, you sit down, pull your chair out, sit up, shake their hand and look them in the eye. Yeah. My dad was big on just morals about, you know, not being a liar. He said, worst thing in the world. Somebody just lie. Don't be a liar. You know what I'm saying? Like, that kind of stuff. Hey, man, you get up and you gonna work hard, and you work for your family. When I started getting notoriety, me and my brother, because my brother boxed two, he was a year older than me. We started having the local, you know, Oakland Tribune and San Francisco Chronicles come around. when we went in nationals and stuff, hey, man, you make sure you give God the glory. Like, these are foundational principles. Of who you still are. So that's stuff my dad instilled in me. As a young man, even when I hated it, like, man, I ain't, like, say all that. You know what I'm saying? Like, man, I'm nervous. I'm scared to tell people I, you know, believe in God. And, you know, even the boxing thing for me was always, like, a little weird for me. Like, I was number one in the country as a kid, but nobody else did what I did. It wasn't like L.A. and Southern California where they got gyms on every corner. We had gyms, but we was weird. Like, where y'all been for a week? I've been rumbling at the Nationals for a whole week. They just not going to understand what's been going on. It was just interesting, man, you know, dealing with that growing up. But my father's life, man, I lost my dad at 20, in 2002. His life is still speaking, man. So as many struggles as he had, he did something right. Because I hear myself talk to my kids, encourage my kids, or discipline my kid. I'm like, that's, that's, that's, that's Frank Ward. Was it different? Because your father boxed as well. You know, you talk about growing up in the Bay and Fred's saying some of the things you see. Growing up with a white father in the area you grew up in, because a lot of times when there's a biracial young man growing up where you grow up from, it's different, right? Was it for you strange, or did you feel like an oddball that all of your homies got black dads and black parents, and you were growing up predominantly with a white father. I did, man. I struggled. You know, I struggled. The way my family kind of described my dad was like, he had a lot of soul. It was almost like a black dude trapped in a white man's body. But he wasn't, like, doing too much. My dad was who he was. He wasn't, like, trying to be extra. Like, man, why you trying to sound black? He was himself, but he just had soul. He had flavor. I could show you pictures of my dad in his 20s. Looked just like me. He had long hair, long curly thick hair. It looked like me. All my friends was black, and they loved my daddy. So that part was cool, but me trying to figure it out, like on the black side, you got white in you, bro. The white side is like, you black. The world for a biracial kid, especially growing up in certain types of neighborhoods, it's tough, bro. It's tough. It's a tough thing because you don't know where you fit in, and it took me a long time to be comfortable in my own skin. And, you know, they shooting out the light-skinned jokes and this and that. That's the kind of stuff that did, I think, make me who I am. Really? Not completely, but it had a lot to do with it. Like, bro, I'm not going. Like, you can think what you want to think, because I'm light-skinned, but I'm not going. I'm not. I'm not. When you guys... You know what I'm talking about? It is, too. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, the same exact thing. Yeah, so, yeah, you either gonna stand up or you gonna get stepped on. And I ain't wanna get stepped on. And speaking of that, with just knowing the special, it's so crazy you said that because my mom was white and my dad wasn't around. So all they saw was my mom. So it's like, and I'm a big dude, but they see me as a big black dude. But then they look at my mom and they're like, oh, you know. Like, so that, bro, exactly what you're saying is, bro, it was weird. But at some point, I'll say like my junior year in high school, I thought about, like, I'm special. Like, y'all can't do what I can do. When did you know that you were special? Because that's a different, like, that's a different thing. I don't give a damn what my mom and my daddy look like. Your ass ain't gonna grab me. You ain't gonna do it. You ain't gonna do it. When did you know that? You know what? In my 20s, man, it really dawned on me. I said, you know what? I said, man, I got a crazy advantage. There's no room I'm not comfortable being in. I'm not awkward around white people. I'm not different around black people. I can go in any room and be comfortable. And I'm a chameleon. I can be whatever I need to be in the moment. That's what, like, my 20s, my mid-20s, when I got out the Olympics and I started doing business and started getting in certain rooms, and I could shake hands, anybody, I'm comfortable in any room, I said, oh, that's an advantage for me. What kept you grounded? Winning Olympic gold at 20, right? You win the Olympic gold at 20. You could have been easily sidetracked thinking, I've made it, I'm here. But from that moment, what actually kept you grounded? Well, we got to take it back a few years, you know, like probably from like 16 to like 19, I went out there, you know, talking about my childhood and just how, you know, how it was weird and different. Like I had to give up a whole childhood to be what I became. Right. And you asked me about my parents and if I would still have been what I was. You know, I think I would have, but I don't know if I could have still been that without giving up a childhood With the distractions and many things you can get in trouble with and the type of work you got to put in You know what I saying So giving up that childhood man and having to make them sacrifices man, that was just a difference maker for me, bro. We met, actually, because of who you are as a father. Right? You reached out to me and had a conversation with your son about football. You know, and you grow into a man or the type of man you are a lot of times based on your experiences and the things that you had to deal with. What is it like for a young man your age, coming from where you're from, when people don't understand, to say that I'm going to sacrifice being a child? I've already seen all of these grown-up things. How does that man give his children a childhood, though? Man, I got to learn from my mistakes. I got to learn from even my early mistakes. You talked about just how did I stay grounded. You know, I started young, man. Me and my wife, you know, she's 15, 16 years old. We had our first child. Then 17, 18. You know what I'm saying? So it was a lot of mistakes made. And with my first two boys, a lot of good things happened too. But you know, I'm a baby. We're growing together. So just learning from the mistakes, man, and trying to do better as they got older. You know, I probably hit a stride with my first two boys when they got 10, 11, 12 years old. I started to, like, figure it out. So just trying to learn, man, and grow from that, seeing the things that my father did well, seeing the things that my father didn't do well, while at the same time trying to juggle this whole career. Yeah. And just to double back to your point, I was able to stay grounded after that gold medal, bro, because I had, dang there, lost it all two, three years before that. You know, that 16, 17, 18, everything that I couldn't do coming up, I did that. And now I'm older, and my dad can't give me a line anymore on why he's nodding off. I understand why you nodding off. Now the resentment starts to creep in. Now the rebellion starts to get in. Now, you know, I'm looking at my mom, like, Mom, what's up? Like, I see my friends. If nothing else, they got their mama. Right. Right now, I don't have my mama. and you start to feel a way about that. So I rebelled, man. Two, three years before I made my push for the Olympics, I got all these years of sacrificing to get to this point. Then I get to this point, and in my mind, I'm like, I'm done with boxing. I'm tired of boxing. But I thank God for Verge, my coach, but he was more of a godfather than a coach. He said, baby, I'm going to tell you, you let these Olympics pass you by, and you see dudes you know you could have beat, you're going to regret it. And I used to fight with him and argue with him. Man, why you saying that, man? I'm just trying to live my life. He said, man, look, man, I don't know the dudes you running with, but God got his hand on you. You're not going to get away with nothing. And as sure as I'm sitting here, man, that would be the case. I'd be in a car full of dudes. Hey, you, come here. I'm like, bro, why me? There's seven other people in the car. Why me? And it always was like that. So to your point, I got to rock bottom, them same generational curses that was gripping my parents with drugs and alcohol and numbing your pain. I didn't know what depression was. I didn't know what heaviness was. I didn't know what that stuff was, but I was dealing with it. I didn't know what anxiety was, but I was dealing with it. And I self-medicated and turned my back on the sport. And then God let one thing after another happen where he started breaking me down, breaking me down. And it got to the point where I threw my hands up probably about a year and a half before I made the team and got arrested. I had two children. It was coming. Like, I wasn't going to have a long time in the streets. And it was that moment, man, that was the sort of the catalyst, man, to me giving my life back to God. All the stuff didn't happen overnight, but it was a slow process, taking the taste of drugs out my mouth, partying out my mouth, the alcohol out my mouth. And right before it was time, like, I really gave my life to the Lord, like really gave my life to God. So getting on the other side of that gold medal, brother, I just, I just, I was tore up. I'm really not supposed to be sitting on this podium. That was the motivation that I needed to stay locked in. What was the conversations like between yourself and God once you decided to truly follow him? Yeah. We all have that person in our life where the old folks, the OGs are telling us, nah, God got his hand on you. You're going to be something. They're telling you to step away from the foolishness. They're trying to get you to understand, but it never clicks and it never happens for us until we believe it, right? Until it becomes something that's internal in us. What was the conversation for you like after going back to the streets, after turning your back on what God truly had put you on earth to do? How did you finally come back to him and say, okay, God, I'm ready? I talk about this in my book. You know, I had took a pill one night, you know, ecstasy pill. And just like my father and just like my grandfather, I got a high tolerance. Like, that's why I don't need to drink. That's one reason why I don't need to drink, because, like, even at 17, 18 years old, I can drink a lot for some reason. And I took this pill, man, my heart started racing. Right? And I heard stories about dudes taking a pill and their heart stopping and stuff like that, but you never think it's going to be you. I thought I was going to die. I'm in a bed like this, standing in my grandma's house up in the Seattle area. And like I'm talking about, like I can hear my heartbeat and I can hear it racing. And them the kind of moments where you had them conversations with God, it was just me and him. And one thing I always knew growing up was, you know, Virgida always say, don't, you better keep your word with the Lord. You make a promise there, you better keep it. And I said, man, I'm sorry. Forgive me for what I've been doing. I know I've been running from you. I knew I had been running from God. If you let me live, but I never go back. And five, 10 minutes later, that heart rate started slowing down. I started feeling like I was going to live, fell asleep, woke up, and I never went back, bro. I never touched another hard drug. The alcohol was slow. I started slowly getting rid of that, slowly started getting rid of the weed. When you go through something like that, at least for me, I'm not morally that good. Like, if me, if I don't have the Lord Jesus Christ in my life I'm not saying just a bunch of precepts and laws in this Bible I'm saying if the power of God don't hit my life we having a different conversation right now. Y'all going to be reading about me from time to time on the bottom of that ticker war deal what? Because I know how I used to be and that was me without no money, without no fame. When you've gone through something like that and gotten to the other side it ain't no way I'm going back. There's no way I'm going back. Is my life perfect? Absolutely not. Am I still striving to be a better man every day? Absolutely. But that life, to me to go back to that, is death. I ain't going to make it because God took that from me and delivered, like, took the taste out of my mouth and got me on the path, but then also gave me the power to be able to navigate the world that I've been in over the last 20-some years, man, and not blow it. So for that, man, bro, I'm forever grateful. You have an ability that a lot of people don't have. Being that special and trying to navigate that, was that hard for you? Is that when did you recognize that you're different than other people? And also, like you're saying, I have a moral compass that I got to deal with too. But being special and having that moral compass, when, like, what's the navigation of that? Man, it's tricky, man. I would start by even thinking about my family nucleus, right? Like, I got a brother who, you know, I don't consider him a half-brother. That's my half-brother. And I got two sisters, you know, Jasmine and Tasha. I don't think I'm better than any of my siblings or anybody, but I did notice that I was different. I just think the way I thought, the way I carried myself, you know, the level of excellence that I tried to approach life with, I think I was, I just noticed that very, very early on. and then also the things that I was told. You know, I've even had to deal with, you know, little resentments and stuff within the family and stuff like that. Like, oh, you think you this? You know, they favoring you. And I didn't understand that stuff as a kid. It just hurt. But then you get older, and it's like, man, God really had his hand on me. And I believe he had his hand on him, too, for whatever it is he wanted them to do. But I just believe that God, I was supposed to do something great in this life, man. And to be perfectly honest with you, I think boxing is just a small part of it. We tend to say certain things in certain ways, and sometimes it can get sort of perceived in the wrong way on this side of the camera, right? You mentioned having children at a young age. I have, RC have. And that one word, mistake, right? But looking back on it, you know, at this particular age, the blessing in it is the relationship that you can have with your children because they're older. Like, it's like brothers and sisters, you know what I'm saying? I'm a cool daddy, yeah. You know what I'm saying? I strapped up. I strapped up. I just put a rub on it. Right. That's a whole nother conversation. I'm waiting on it, man. So... I'm waiting on it, man. That's a whole nother conversation. But for you, those hard conversations with your children that you're able to have about those things, where they can learn from those mistakes, will be... What do you see in their reflections when you're having those conversations and then when you look at them? I think they've actually gone the opposite direction. You know, because they've seen the struggle throughout the years. Mm-hmm. Like, it's lit. And it's controlled chaos. We doing all right. We good. But it's lit. There's a lot going on. There's a lot of moving pieces in our lives. They see their mother, you know, Tiffany, man. That's my baby, man. She from, man, it almost bring me to tears, man, because, you know, I wrote this in the book where I can remember her being pregnant at 15 years old. God, man. And how she was looked at. Fran started, you know, looking at her funny. You know, she's having issues with her mom. and they worked that stuff out. But you know, at that time, my mother was like, oh, what you doing? I seen how she was treated. And everybody didn't treat her bad, but it was a lot of, she was ostracized. She, you know, a lot of whispers. Man, and I see how she stood up. I don't know how she did it, but she stood up. She was never ashamed of me. She was never ashamed of our situation or our child that was on the way, my son, Andre Jr. And she's carried that into motherhood with all of our kids. So they see the struggle, and I think they like, yeah, I'm going to take my time with this. But they also see the grace of their mother and how she's able to juggle and do what she's able to do. So I think they appreciate us and they see like, man, this is dope how God enabled y'all to do this and how y'all stayed together. But they also see enough of it where it's like, we don't want to play with that. You know, you know, Dre, and I love that Fred talked about having children young. When I'm 19 and I'm being told that somebody's pregnant, it's like, holy hell. Yes. Right. And when I had to, I told my mom over Christmas break from college. And I remember my dad calling me and I was like talking to my father. And he said, when I came home, your mom was naked on the floor crying. And it broke my heart. That's, you know, that was my baby. Like, that was all I knew. And I knew her strength and I knew how much she prayed. And I also knew, though, how many times she told me she had me at 19. that she didn't want that for me. Wow. Right? And so I remember how I thought that my life would never be the life my parents had sacrificed for, or I had worked for, because I had made this decision, and those were my consequences. And then, man, when I went in the Super Bowl, my son, who I had at 21, I was just like you. I was dumb at 19, I was dumb at 21. I didn't learn. Y'all was skiing. You know what I mean? A lot going on. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot going on. Yeah, well, it's kidding, it's kidding. And, but when I won the Super Bowl, my son broke us down on Saturday before the Super Bowl because he was old enough to understand. Right, he would come to every walkthrough with me and every other, and then all the other of my teammates who had young sons started bringing their sons, and they would pay him to babysit. Right? He knows Uncle Troy, and he knows Uncle Ike, and he knew Uncle Sean. Like, he got to see me be what I was. Your kids got to see that. Yeah. Right? They got to see a world champion, right? They got to see a man live with the fabric of professionalism at the highest level of his sport. What was it like for your kids to be a part of that journey as well? And what did you try to teach them through the hard work that you put into your craft? It's a powerful thing, man. You know, Dre Jr., my oldest, my second oldest, Malachi, my daughter, Amira, and even Champ. Champ, my fourth son, he, my third son, but my fourth child, he was able to catch the tail end, Kovalev 1, Kovalev 2. I'm grateful for that, man. You know, I'm sorry, my baby, who I had after retirement, right, thought I was done, wasn't done. He didn't get a chance to see it, so he like, he know that he was a boxer, but he like, huh? He trying to figure it out. I'm grateful for that, man. It's just so many memories that we'll never forget. I just think it's a powerful thing, man. We reminisce about it. You know, we pull up old pictures, man. I'm showing them my daughter when I fought Kovalev. Like, man, girl, you were so young, you know? It's just a powerful thing. And, you know, though we didn't necessarily start off the right way, I am grateful in hindsight, man, that we grew up with our kids. We grew up with our babies. And it's like we was always the cool parents. You know, we the youngest ones out the bunch. I really don't have no regrets about that, man. What about, though, when you know your baby's watching, when Kovalev caught you with that punch early on in the flight Was it the second round Yeah second round I got to get up For someone as talented as you are and who had won as much as you had when you face that sort of adversity in your biggest fight at the time, that early on in the fight, what in you clicks into that survival mode? Whatever's in you in that moment, it's what's gonna come out. If you got turn in you, you gonna turn. If you got weakness in you, you gonna turn. the weakness gonna show up. Unfortunately, I needed that. That whole training camp, man, was a tough training camp. It's probably the toughest training camp I've ever had. I've had six knee surgeries, ACL from playing basketball in 2008, a bunch of cleanups and meniscus and stuff like that. And going into that camp, man, I just had a lot of issues with this knee. Man, I'd have a good two, three days, the knee would swell up. I'm like, man, gotta take a day or two off. And for me, a person that liked to check them boxes, that ain't good for me. But it's these moments in time where God is testing me and he's stretching my faith. Like, son, I want you to go out there in front of a microphone and tell people about me. I want you to be a good example of somebody that follows me. But it's going to be times, man, where you're going to have to really show your faith. And fighting the most dangerous man of my whole career, like, he could really, really kill. He's killed a man before. The biggest, biggest moment, biggest fight. I know my career is on the tail end. And now this, my greatest weapon ain't working. So I got through that. I'm draining my knee two hours before I go to the arena in Las Vegas in disbelief. Like, man, this is crazy. I can't believe this is happening. And I started off slow in that fight. When I got knocked down, my father came out of me. That was Frank Duke War. My dad used to box. My dad, we call it the War Scout. Like, that look, like, it's just there. I seen my father come out of me. When I got knocked down, it's like I felt a flash, boom. I looked up, like, I hear the crowd. First thing you feel is embarrassment, like, well, I ain't supposed to be down here. I got up, and you just see me kind of smile, like, it's on now. So what's in you in the moment is what's going to come out. I never doubted what I would do in a pressure situation like that. And it's funny because a lot of my critics, they try to tease me or they try to poke at that fight. Oh, you lost. No, it's a close fight that I won. I ain't going to concede that. But that's my crowning moment right there, not the second one. It's that one because I had to get it out the mud. I was down on the scorecard. I needed every single round, and I did that against that guy. That's my moment right there. Fighting in that situation where it's, as we say, we hear about your upbringing. We hear what you're doing. Is that more prideful than any records and all that stuff? Because all people want to say is never been beat, never been beat. That zero matters. That zero matters. That zero matters. But does zero mean something over, like you just said, that that was something special? It depends on how you kept it. If you got an O, but you avoided the top dogs in top competition, that ain't the same O as somebody like a Floyd Mayweather or even myself or a Terrence Crawford. It's different. I didn't duck no smoke, you know, and I was just fortunate enough to come out on the other side because if Covalet would have landed that shot two, three inches, any type of way, boom, my lights could have went out. I could have been waking up saying, what happened? You got knocked out, bro. Right? The right hand I hit him with in the second fight. If I think about that, like, man, if I got a little bit more, man, he could have went out. That's the sport that I'm in. So, yeah. You've been retired now almost 10 years. That's crazy. Yeah, it is crazy, right? Because he old, friend. He old. He don't look old. He just look young. That's crazy. So we've been, what, you retired. I retired 2011. I'm 11. 2011. I'm 11 years retired. It's been 15 years for me. But the question is this, because it was asked on this show not too long ago. So let's pretend it's 2018. Would you come back for $100 million? Oh, yeah, we on that $100 million again? $100 million. What would you do? But I'll fight a fuck. ...monster. Nah, he know what he said. He said he was sick. I would wrestle an alligator. I would wrestle an alligator. I would wrestle a gorilla. I would wrestle... A hundred mil? You might be dead after that. You may not be there. Bro, a hundred grown men. Hundred M's. Yeah. Bro. Yeah. Fireclimber, a skyscraper. The question is stretched, but, you know, looking back, just are you really content with how everything played out? Because when I retired, like, ah, maybe I could have given him one more year. You know, that was three years after the fact. But then I'm good. Looking at my 13, I'm solid. Are you officially like all the way good or is there anything you would do different? Most days. Okay. Most days I'm good. It's some days I'm wrestling. Right, it's some days I'm wrestling, man. It's, uh, retirement is one of the greatest things that I've been able to do because I always wanted to do it that way. I always wanted to leave on top. I mean, it's one of the most difficult things that I'm enduring in my life. It's one of the strangest things that I've done in my life because you start reflecting. You know, like Napoleon Kaufman is my pastor, former Raider Gray. Dog. Monster. Yeah, that's Washington. Dog. I used to talk to him a lot, like, man, pastor, you know what I mean, what you think? You know, a couple of years before I retired, trying to just fill him out. Like, man, what you think I'm thinking about, man? I don't know how much time I got left. He said, Dre, when you retire, man, he said, he said, retirement is like a death. Mm-hmm. What do you mean a death? He said, man, some days you good, and other days you not. It's days you're not even thinking about it. And then all of a sudden it hits you like a ton of bricks, man, and you're trying to figure out what am I going to do next. That's how it's been for me. You know, most days I'm like, you did what you were supposed to do. We don't have a lot of examples of fighters that did it their way, that left on top, leaving people wanting more. But then some days I'm like, why didn't you take two or three more fights? Like I had gotten everything that I wanted, all my deals, my Jordan deal, my HBO deal, all my deals were set to renew. And I started negotiating them deals. And the conviction was strong, man. I was done. I was done. I wanted my freedom back, man. I wanted to... My boys were, I think, sophomores and juniors at that time. I wanted to finish them out with high school without having to be gone. But then you start seeing even the money that's in the game right now. I know y'all know what I'm talking about. Like, man, I could have made two, three, four times as much. much. But here go the thing, though. Just because I wrestle and contend with that some days doesn't mean I did the wrong thing. Like, I did what I was supposed to do. Nobody said it was going to be easy. And I look at how God has been providing for me, the doors that He's opened and the impact that I've been able to have retired. I can't deny that. I can't refute that, man. I'm grateful. When I think about my long-term health, just because you can don't mean you should. I could still rumble right now, but I don't need to be taking no punches. I was going to ask you that, like, our sport is so different. You know, I played 13 years, and I tell this story all the time. I retired, like, week 11 of my last season. Right. Like, I was sitting on the sofa, you know, I'm asking my son, I'm like, hey, Jordan, can you bring me this? Can you? Because I couldn't get up to go get it. You know what I mean? I knew that, like, what it took for me to get to Sunday, it just wasn't worth it anymore. And then another piece of retirement for us is like the people start letting you know you ain't really hot in these streets like that you know i'm saying like they everybody ain't knocking on your door to come be their start safety like those things change as well but for y'all it's different like it's truly bro an individual call and it wasn't and like you were still the best fighter in your division You were still an all-time great. You didn't get the knockout, the Antonio Tarver knockout that started you down a path where you can be like, okay, maybe I'm not what I used to be. What was the one thing that made you know that you were truly convicted and content with walking away from it? Probably about five years before I retired, you start saying the R word, kind of tripping on myself. Why you bringing that up? But I had also studied, like, sports and boxing. I studied the fact that Jim Brown was on a set of Dirty Dozens with his fatigue uniform on, talking to the GM of the Cleveland Browns, telling him what his number was, and he refused to give it, and he retired right there and never came back. I'm like, what was that? Even though Big George came back, I'm like, man, George left for ten years, came back, had a ten-year run, then he left again. What was that? I looked at my pastor, and I was like, man, you did six years? and you never came back? He was like, well, the Chargers, they did come calling, man. He said, I almost did it. I was thinking about getting the V-Lin in San Diego, man, and doing my thing. He said, but God didn't want me to do that. So this is the stuff I'm studying and looking at, even while I'm active. I'm looking at, I didn't mind working hard. I didn't mind grinding at camp, but it's being away from my family for eight weeks, ten weeks. It tore me up. So I got this ability, this talent. The money is good. I need money. but I'm not driven by money. Like, I left a lot of money on the table, so you asked the $100 million question, I left a whole lot of money on the table. I could have picked my number. It's more than just that, man. And I thought I was done after Covalet won. Mm-hmm. What it is is it just... you just start... it starts the game, the stuff that's happening in the ring, the price that you got to pay to get in the ring, right? When I start realizing that, man, I'm spending more money on rehab and prehab and physical therapy that I'm spending to actually get ready. That's one of them boxes. I'm like, something is different here. Yeah. I get through Kovalev 1, and I did what y'all said that I couldn't do. I beat him. I got off the canvas. And if he would have won the 12th round, he would have won the fight. But I won the 12th round. And even though it was a lot of support and a lot of love, it's hard not to hear the other stuff. And I'm seeing this stuff, and I'm like, it ain't never enough. Why should I keep fighting? And why should I keep sacrificing myself and putting putting putting my life on the line if it's never enough? After Colville, one, I didn't touch a gym for three months. I'm talking I want to talk boxing. I ain't watching boxing. And I had never done that before in my life. And I went to talk to my pastor. I just kind of ran everything down to him. I said, man, I say I said, I think the fire done, man. I think I'm done. I say I ain't got to I ain't got to do this again. He looked. He was like, he said, I think I think you're going to be fine. whether you, if you retire now or do one more. He said, but I think you got one more left in you. No doubt. And I remember like when he said that, I was kind of mad though. I thought he was going to agree with me when I went in there and be like, Dre, that's it. Yeah. And I felt like every time I get to the point where I can get to the point where I'm done, the goalposts get moved. So glad I listened to him though. Yeah. It would have been a lot of questions about my legacy. I'm glad I got that check, that other check. But when I sealed that deal, I knew, like, that's the perfect way to go away. I think that these guys and you will probably agree with me, too. For athletes and competitors, competing and showing up is easy against other people. The toughest challenge a lot of times for us is when you're one-on-one versus yourself. You have those thoughts. And you fought that fight you said five years before you actually pulled the trigger. Which leads me to the question, And would retiring and making that decision be one of your greater achievements in the sport? I like to say it like this. I wish retirement on everybody, but I wish retirement on nobody. It's just different, man. I like to call it a career change. It makes it easier for me. But that's what I've since learned, right? Is that it's not a retirement. It's just a shift. It's a transition into other things. I tell Bud all the time, I say, boy, you're going to have to go through some stuff. He's like, no, no, I'm just, you know, I'm just focused on my real estate, this and that. But it ain't the same, bro. It's not the same. Like, it's cool to have business ventures and buy property, do all your stuff, bro, I said. But I said, it's going to be different, bro, because you have something in you that is not normal. the fire that we have the competitiveness that we have it is not normal the way we argue and fight over nothing when it comes to cars and ping pong that is not normal and you are able to have a mission to exercise that in the gym and in these fights if you keep your word that's gone bro and you're going to have to learn how to contend with that That's why y'all know y'all done seen people retire. They start bringing in them vices. Because I'm looking for them endorphins. I'm looking for that high. I'm looking for something to give it to me. So the retirement thing is a blessing, man, but it's taken me to a place of reflection. It's taken me to... It's challenged me in ways that I never thought possible. And the other thing is, I'm nine years, almost 10 years removed. I still get the question, like, bro, come on, bro. I know you holding out for the right opportunity, right? I'm like, it's been 10 years. Somebody's gonna throw a check at you, bruh. Right? And they have. Yes. Really? But I didn't account for this. I thought it'd be two, three years of asking me to come back, and then that was it. The pullback, the questions, the commentary, that also prolongs the process of healing from retirement. My favorite thing about any time Bud would fight or Shakur fights now is the picture that y all take It like you Clarissa Bud Shakur And like nobody has a loss right It's just zeros everywhere behind the dash, behind the hyphen. How do those relationships help you with the trauma of stepping away from the ring yourself? I know for me, like, I train guys, right? And I have TV, and I do all these things I stay connected and I'm helping, I'm passing down knowledge, I'm doing those things. How does a relationship with Bud, who was the best in the world, Shakur, who's becoming the best in the world, Clarissa, who's the best in the world, keep you close to boxing enough where you don't get pulled back in? I think it's been tremendous, man, because I'm living through them. You know, I'm also excited about what they're doing, the money they're making, the legacy they're building. I see myself in them. I see a little bit of myself in Clarissa. You know, people doubting her and, you know, she got two gold medals. I only got one of them things. She got two. And they still got a butt behind the name. And she, you know, been undisputed, what, three times or something like that? They still doubt her. I can relate to that. I see Shakur. Oh, you know, he born, he this and that. Same thing was said about me. I see a little bit of myself in that. I see Terrence Crawford, that every time you say he can't do something, he do it in spectacular fashion. And you always got another excuse or you always got another opponent that you think can beat him. I've been there. So me being around them and being able to see myself and my journey in each and every one of them, man, it definitely feeds me as an athlete for sure. We just had Bud on. Do you think you marketed yourself right? Do you think you maximized your career now being retired? Because one thing with Bud, I've told a number of dudes that you can't run from the marketability of what boxing is. Floyd maximized it. Like you're talking about the guys that Clarissa and Art, Like, are they maximizing? Did you maximize the money or the attention that you should and could have got? I don't know. Like I said, I have days when, you know, like, man, I probably should have did that a little bit different. Maybe I could have approached this a little bit different. The way I was raised in the game, old-school training. Isolation. We got to get away, baby. We can't be around that. It's almost like the media was the enemy. They trying to get in and casual. They trying to find someone. So I became really good at stiff-arming them, keeping them at distance, right? A couple of them that was cool. I'm like, man, y'all come in. Y'all can come in camp. We embrace y'all. But then you also see the flip-floppiness and the back-dooring and stuff where it's like, bro, I just gave you a 30-minute interview when they was doing a lot of print. But you already had your article written. You just wanted my quotes just to validate your article. And you started you just get a... You just start to feel a way about it. That's how I was raised. Also, what God was doing in my life, I can't go out there and represent Him in a certain type of way. It's not that I can't talk my talk sometimes. I mean, I did. I did it my way. Like, I'm not gonna start it, but I'm gonna finish it. If y'all would've caught me pre, you know what I'm saying, transition, oh, y'all would've got everything y'all wanted answered. Y'all would've been hitting me on the line, nephew, you gotta chill out. You gotta chill out, man. I know what you doing, but you gotta chill out. So I think I did... It's always stuff I could've did, didn't, but I think I did what I was supposed to do, man. My calling is bigger than just entertaining people to come to my fight. I did it my way, and I made a king's ransom doing it, and I didn't lose my integrity in the process. What's your calling now? I tell people all the time when they talk about my jobs and the things I do, I said nothing's gonna be football to me. Football was the first thing I ever loved. Yeah. It was. Like, you didn't have to teach me how to show my love. I didn't need people to tell me to say, hey, this is the way that people sacrifice for this. I was like, this is what love is. Like, I picked it up. I knew exactly what to do with it. The first time I saw somebody else with it, I knew I wanted to make sure he couldn't get to this goal. Like, I knew all those things and I felt it. And when it went away, people were like, well, what did you use to replace it? I was like, absolutely nothing. I was like, I, when I left the field, I actually mourned that death. I put it aside. I say, this is never going to happen again. You're not going to get that feeling again. How long did it take you to accept that, though? It took me a day. Really? I have never missed football a day in my life. I have never missed football since I retired. Because for me, I'm undrafted, Dre. You wasn't even supposed to be there, bud. You mean to tell me God gave me 13 years of feed my family, doing this thing I would have did for free, when every team in the NFL said for seven rounds, ain't no way you can do it. When I got cut, when I had a regular job, a nine to five after my second year, and he let me start 11 more years, during my time in the league, I got to look every coach in the eye at least one time while standing in the middle of a football field. Ooh. What can you do me? Yeah. Like, what can you tell me? And so the other thing, my crowning achievement as the Channing Point was the fact that in the 13th, in my 13th year, as a starter for Washington, I decided to retire in November. Nobody told me I had to go. I decided on my own. I told my family, hey, y'all, let's enjoy these last few games. Like, I used to never let my family come on the field before the game because I didn't want to feel love. You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't want to feel good about it. Like, I didn't want to be like, hey, this is a great day. No, I wanted to be like, nah, he's trying to take something from me. I started letting my family come to the field. We'd take pictures. I'd hug them. I'd kiss them. I'd tell them I love them. I'd tell them, thank you for sacrificing daddy so I could do this, because I knew that's what. And so I never missed it. On the days, though, that you say, most days I'm good. The days you aren't. What's that thing pulling at your heart that's saying, today, I do miss it? I want to fight. I want to fight. I want to I want to get with my team again and have another mission. Our team versus your team. Me versus you. Your char, your char, your horse versus me. Just that feeling and being in that arena again and feeling the nerves and feeling the confidence and having to go through that mental struggle and just all of the process to get ready for war. And then the actual battle. I miss being sore after a fight. I miss that feeling when it's like, man, you know like I miss giving the check to my wife that was something I used to do symbolically they come in here to athletic commission whatever state you fighting in and they got a big old clipboard and everybody's purse is on that clipboard I'll be like, man, turn the clipboard this way man you got family members, they looking like it's a real number on that clipboard and they turning it this way so I'll be like, hey man, turn this way But then you sign for it, they give you your check. I always give that check to my wife. I miss doing that. I'm giving her different checks, but them fight checks different. And what you did to get that fight check is different, though. What I did, I miss winning that fight and being on that high for... Sometimes you've been on that high for a week or two. The adrenaline is so strong. You don't come down off it. I've really been thinking about this dude in this moment for 10 weeks straight every day. Most of my waking moments, I got you on my mind. Then I did it, I accomplished, I beat you. That feeling is hard. I miss that. I miss that. I'm grateful for the other things though, because if God didn't give me other opportunities, if I didn't have things to do that you just mentioned, it'd be rough. It's passion. It'd be rough. The passion that you have of, Is it embarrassing another man? I don't know a better word to put it. It shows that you're the better man. You want to dominate somebody else, and that's all our jobs were, to dominate. You have a job. I always say it all the time. If one person say, get open, and there's somebody else that says, don't let him get open. Yeah, I'm not gonna let you. And we gotta do it. Your people said, knock this mother out. His people said, don't let him knock you out. And that's what you missed? And then the whole world is watching. All of that's going on, but the whole world is watching. You better take these robes off. You ain't gonna have your shirt on. I ain't gonna have my shirt on. We got 10-ounce gloves. I can see your knuckles through that leather. You can see my knuckles through that leather. And yes, a team sport. My team helped me get ready, but they about to get out that ring and walk down them steps. And then that feeling, 10 seconds before the bell rang, when the crowd is getting excited, and I feel like, bro, this is it. and the referee looked to the man with the stopwatch, you ready? You ready? You ready? Fighting that bell ring? Ain't nothing like it, bro. Got to tie his ass up. Like, that just gave me chills and also scared the hell out of me. When we had Bud on, he was explaining that. He was like, if Freddie T go down, they can't say, hey, Crawford, go take his place. You know, he's like, if a stretcher come out, the fight's over, you lose. I will say the only thing that I ever miss is knowing if I'm willing to go to a darker place than you. I found out at some point in my career that he wanted to be hit a lot less. And if I got him in that dark place, if I got him in a small space, he couldn't run. And if you can't run, that means that one of us could go to sleep. Are you willing to put yourself in the spot to go to sleep more than I am? And when I realized, oh wait, hardly nobody is. Like there's times I watch running backs run over safeties and like get up and like flex and stuff like that. And I'd be like, man, I'd knock him out. You know what I'm saying? Like, hey Dre, hey Dre, like that stuff right there. Like when I see that, like that part of it, that part of it, that's what I've been. It's the truth. And I'll ask my question. I don't even want to get it to it because I'm not. Drake got me fired up. You talking about going to that dark place? He was just talking about the dark place. The further you become removed from it, I think those moments do creep in your mind. When you see a young buck getting out like, only if they knew. You know, I give them a piece of that. But to get to the question is, and we ask all of our guests, their biggest pivot in life. That's that one moment you can look back on. It could be multiple moments, but you can look back on it and say, because this happened to me or for me, I am who I am today. Yeah, I think it was the one I told y'all right before the Olympics, man. That was big for me, man. Like, I wasn't playing with me. You ain't gonna be no career-long straight dude. You're not gonna be no career-long addict. Like, this plan gonna go through either my way or no way. And if I didn't look up and have that conversation with God, man, I believe I would have lost my life early, or I would have been one of them dudes either in prison or on the side of the road. I'd say, man, that boy right there, he was cold. Everybody want to talk about the Golden Gloves. Golden Gloves, boy, he could be Golden Gloves. Man, he even went to the National. I had flashes of that during that time. That's a scary thing to think about because that was very, very close to happening. Some of the greatest talent we... Some of the greatest talent in the world, you name the sport, we've never seen. Yeah. Because they lost to drugs, they lost to alcohol, whatever the case may be, man. So that was the pivot that set me on the right path, man. And I'm grateful, man, that I never look back. I never look back. So when people talk about my faith and all that kind of stuff, it's like, bro, listen, man, again, I'm not that good, man, but I've experienced something. I've come into contact with a God that is real to me, and it changed me. And it took a generational thing that came down the line long before I got here had got on me. But the power of God, because I said yes, it broke it off of me never to return. Don't mean you ain't got to fight thoughts and you ain't got to fight temptation, but that stuff is, the temptation is from the outside in, not the inside out. It's one thing when you're being driven to do something, you're like, I can't stop. It's different when that temptation knocking from the outside, you're like, nah, I see you, but I ain't giving in. Nah, man, I've been trying to do this for years, bro. And your career post-fight, man, and post-fighting has been inspiring to watch. Whether it's analyzing on fight night, talking about it on your show. Like, I listen to you because I learn. I learn what the people are made of that are in the sport of boxing. But also, when I'm watching a fight and you say something, I'm like, that's real. That's going to happen. He's seen that. And, man, so continue doing what you're doing, man. Continue to live the life that God has set out for you because you truly are inspiring outside of what you did for a living, bro. And I appreciate you. I appreciate y'all. That was dope, man. And he got me fired up, though. When he started talking about that joke, he got me fired up, though. I appreciate you, bro. Yeah, sir. Hey, Dre, I thank you. It's been a hell of a... That's the... Hold on. Limitless. Digga's to McCown pinning it. I thought they're here to witness it. Got my people feeling militant Way I'm feeling got me up On a mission got me up Knowing me I got the key Only vision I can trust Trust Limitless Niggas stomach cap pinning it I fought to hear the witnesses Got my people feeling militant Way I'm feeling got me up On a mission got me up