Jessi Draper: Blackmail, Orgies & Escorts

Hey guys, I just wanted to give some context before you watch the interview of when this episode was recorded. It is currently Friday, March 20th in the early afternoon and so much is happening with secret lives. So if any news breaks over the weekend, we are not avoiding the topic. It's just we already recorded the episode and we weren't privy to that information. So enjoy the episode. What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Jesse Draper, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you. It has been such a crazy time for the secret lives of Mormon wives right now. Obviously, there have been some really traumatic headlines and to be clear, you were booked to come on Call Her Daddy before any of the Taylor Frankie Paul news broke. Originally, the plan was to talk about your own journey and we are going to do that today. But we do need to acknowledge what's going on right now with your co-stars Taylor and Dakota. So last week, a recent domestic violence report from February came to light and as that news was breaking, then a disturbing video from a 2023 altercation between Taylor and Dakota was released. And then two hours later, Taylor's season of The Bachelorette was canceled. The footage is really hard to watch, especially because there is a child involved. I imagine this was really upsetting for all of the cast. Prior to the release, did you know this video existed? I did. Obviously, back in 2023, we knew it happened and we knew there was a video, but we never saw it. It was like the police had had it and they talked about it and we all just were like, okay, I don't like to judge someone in their darkest moment. I don't want to judge the person, I'll judge the mistake. And Taylor really has made a lot of changes and that's what's so hard for me is this is my real friend and she does have a really good heart and I love her so much. Seeing that video is so hard because there's so much pain underneath the surface for Taylor and I tell her this all the time that it's not who Taylor is. She got caught in a really bad cycle and just seeing that video and yes, the child being involved is awful and everyone involved is really hard. But Taylor's such a good person and she's made some mistakes and so is Dakota and I'm not saying any of it's right, but I know Taylor is a person and it's so easy to speculate about these people on a reality show. I think when you watch it, we're characters, we're not real people, but this is our real lives and I've seen Taylor in her darkest moments holding her crying. I've been there for her so I know what goes on behind the scenes and I want this to be maybe a wake up call for them and let's get them healthy and happy and move forward and I believe people can come back from things like this and I just want the kids to be safe and happy and healthy. That's all I really want for them right now. I'm curious because like now seeing the footage, like you said, like you knew there was something and people had read the reports and obviously they came back from it, but seeing it, has it made you reevaluate the manner in which this relationship and everything has been handled to date with the two of them? Yeah, I mean, we all knew it was a toxic cycle. Don't get me wrong. You saw her in season four and how she was dealing with that and us kind of being like, Taylor, what are you doing? But no one knew the extent and Taylor herself had said to us, like, I didn't want to tell you on the extent and I think anyone in that situation knows that it's so easy just to be like, everything's fine. Like I've been there too. So yeah, none of us really knew the extent and now finding out all these details, it's been hard for sure. How is this impacting the group as a whole right now? So me and the girls, we did decide to stop filming when we found this out because we were starting to hear things a little bit before it leaked and we just didn't want to be filming and say the wrong thing on camera, not knowing the full story yet. And we didn't want to like have to process all this information for the first time and then also be speaking about it, you know? So we just thought like for everyone's mental health, let's take a beat and let's not film right now. And that's probably the best thing for everyone in this situation. Yeah. Can you also clarify? Like I know that we read that a decision at first was made by executives to pause filming the upcoming season of Secret Lives that you're in the middle of filming. And then yes, the cast did. So like what led to the first pausing? So we had a first pause that was from production and I think I have to say like everyone before I went on reality TV was like, be careful producers are slimy. That may be the case for some people. I genuinely love my production like their family. Love them. They're a network. They have been incredible to us and they did. They paused things for a minute because I think they were like, whoa, like we care about you guys as people. Then we picked back up and then to clarify, like was that when the initial recent domestic violence? No, this was when we found out he filed a police report. So this was before it broke though. So they were like, you know, for everyone's mental health, like let's take a beat. And then when news broke or actually like a little bit before news broke, but we knew it probably was going to us girls decided. So we went to production and the network and they were all so supportive and they were like, we totally get it. You guys come first. They handled it so well. And because of that, I feel like we all felt comfortable being like, you know what, this is our real lives. And if we want this show to continue to be successful, we have to handle this the right way. Were you shocked at all when you heard he did file another domestic violence? Yes, because I'm sure there are situations in the past where he could have and didn't and same with her. So because of that, I was like, why now? You know, but I don't know the reason behind it. Everyone's kind of speculating on that. But I think maybe he had hit a limit. Maybe I don't know. I genuinely have no idea. When the cast then did make the decision, obviously once you guys heard the video was going to come out, who like brought the girls together? Like who was the person to raise this to you guys? Like what was where those conversations like? Honestly, it was us as a whole. We were on a group message. So we were just like, hey, let's jump on a zoom call. And we all got on a zoom call and even Whitney was on it, even though she's not like in our lives every single day anymore. And we all just kind of talked about it as a whole and were like, hey, how's everyone feeling? Pulse check. How do you want to handle this? And we all were unanimously on the same page. That's great that there were no disagreements. No. There is a screenshot going around social media where Taylor called Dakota many times in one night and in the middle of that, Jordan called and spoke to Dakota. What do you know about that conversation? I have to say that like in my marriage, it felt like Dakota was the other woman like Dakota and Jordan are so in love. So he was on the phone with Dakota all the time. So he was with him when he filed the police report. He went over to his house and he was with him the whole time. And he I think has been in cahoots with Dakota throughout this whole thing. In those heightened moments, how would you handle, because at the time this was your husband, like him being loyal to Dakota and you being loyal to Taylor. I has been the struggle of my life the last two years. He's best friends with Dakota and best friends with Taylor. So it's really, really hard. Something ironic, me and Taylor, our birthdays are a day apart. Dakotas and Jordans are a day apart. So like same signs. And I'm a lot like Taylor. He's a lot like Dakota. It's so weird. So this dynamic has been tricky. I would hear things from Jordan and Dakota and I would just kind of like take it with a grain of salt and then I would hear things from Taylor. At the end of the day, my loyalty is with Taylor because she's my friend, but it was hard because my husband was in the middle of a lot of it. And when you say the past two years, like what was that shift? What changed in the past two years? Just because we got really close with them two years ago and they were still together. And so we were like kind of couple friends. We're filming this show together and then all of a sudden they break up and then me and Jordan go through our thing last year and that like bonded Dakota and Jordan even more. And then me and Taylor even more. Do you have any idea what all of this means for the next season of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives? I don't know because right now we're on a film pause. I feel like all of us right now are just trying to like be like, okay, we're human beings first and let's figure that out and then we'll get back to filming the show. Clearly there's no shortage of drama in our lives. So if we get another season, it's going to be good. Yeah. What do you think obviously because of all of this coming out like if you did resume filming, you're going to have to talk about all of this. What do you think it would take for you to feel comfortable to start filming again? I think now we're at a point where we're like, okay, the world knows and like the info's out there. And so, you know, now we're good and we can speak on the things we know and we can talk about it in a real way rather than before. We were like, we don't even know if this is going to get out. So we didn't know if we could even talk about it when we were filming. Now we can. This is the first time in the history of the Bachelorette that the show was pulled right before the premiere. What was your reaction when you found out? I wasn't super surprised because I felt like there was a lot of discourse online that they probably needed to. But I have to say, I saw Taylor during that journey and she was a different person. I genuinely feel like she needed to get away from Dakota. She stepped into like a really confident, amazing era. I saw her twice and I was like, you're aura is different. Your energy is different. And it was like the old Taylor again. So I like him so sad because I really wanted people to see that side of Taylor and maybe one day they will. Who knows? But I just felt like it was such a good experience for her and I'm really sad because it was very wholesome and dramatic but amazing. Did you have a heads up or did you find out when the news broke? No, I found out when the news broke. I was literally dancing with Sasha from Dancing with the Stars. We were doing a little dance lesson. My friend was with us and she goes, pause, breaking news. And I was like, what? And when that happens, you just immediately go to the group chat. What were all the other women saying? Taylor was calling me. So I had two missed calls from her and I was like, oh, shit. So I like answered and she was just like, how are you? The thing about Taylor is she's always checked. She has her own shit going on. So sometimes she's like not very present but she does care about her friends. So she was like, how are you doing? I just heard and I was like, how are you doing? So how is she doing? I actually talked to her right before I came in here and she seemed pretty positive today. And I think she knows that this is going to be a long and scary journey. And the thing about Taylor, she always tells the truth. She's known for that and I think she's going to handle this in the best way possible. And I think she's taking a beat to figure that out. She's not just running to TMZ and leaking stories. So I think that's the right way to go about it. Yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah. TMZ is having like the best week ever. Literally a renaissance. Like TMZ is like, we are so back. That's so true. Obviously there's a lot of speculation online that people close to Taylor have been leaking things to the press or people close to Dakota or Dakota himself. Like have you heard anything about and do you know of anyone leaking anything? I don't know who it is, but I have to guess it's Dakota for sure. Do you think Dakota sold the video to TMZ? Yeah. When you think about him selling that to TMZ, why do you think he did it now? Because he's been holding on to that for three years. It's everyone speculating about the timing could be it. I definitely think that has something to do with it. I don't know if he was like holding it over her head for that long. Maybe they were doing that to each other. I have no clue like the ins and outs, but I just think the timing is a little crazy. So when is the last time you spoke to Dakota? Probably two weeks ago. He was at my house a lot because of him and Jordan's dynamic. So through all of this, he's actually been at my house quite often. Just like, I was never like engaging, but he was like around Jordan. So yeah, probably two weeks ago. And how were those conversations? I didn't hear a lot of them. I tried to stay out of it because I'm like, I'm Taylor's friend, you know, but Jordan and him loved to gossip. I will say that. With everything that's come out in the past few days, do you think mom talk will survive this? That is the only time that this phrase applies. And I actually don't know. We're falling apart over here. I know. I think it's like there's the Taylor and Dakota thing, which has been really hard because I think you're right. It's like we're seeing people online being like, this feels so beyond reality TV. Like this is stuff that like we shouldn't be able to see this. Yeah. This is not something that we should be able to consume just so casually on the internet. Pick up these videos. Then on top of that, like you just said, Taylor is asking you on the phone, girl, how are you doing? Because there's something serious going on in your life also. The news just broke that Jordan filed for divorce. Can you set the record straight? Who ended things in the relationship? So I actually found out that he filed through TMZ. He texted me and I was here in LA and I get a text, Hey, we just saw Jordan filed for divorce. How are you doing? And I'm like, they're like, it's TMZ. And I was like, I did end it with him. So I knew it was coming, but we had made an agreement to do it together and he blindsided me and filed because he wanted the headline first. Okay. Hold on. Finding out about your divorce on TMZ in that moment when you got that text, how did you feel? It just sunk because A, we agreed to tell our children together before filing and we haven't done that, including his daughter who's like 13 years old. So she found out through TMZ? I don't know if he told her before, but we had made the agreement to like tell our kids together and we didn't. And luckily they're young, but just kind of like a betrayal, you know, and I had this huge packet of paperwork to fill out on like how to divide assets and furniture and cars and houses and we had to fill it out to file. So he went ahead and just did all of that without me. So I have no idea what he put in there. He also did try. I found out from my lawyer this morning, he tried to put a clause in the divorce that I couldn't go on any podcast to talk about him. So sorry. Here we are. But I didn't sign anything. That would all have to be negotiated and it was just what he wanted, but it's not going to happen. What do you think he didn't want you to be able to speak about? There's a lot. Yeah. We're going to get into it. Yes, we will. It is also reported that Jordan allegedly filed quickly on Thursday because he did find out that you are coming on call her daddy. What are your thoughts on that? I don't know for sure if he knew, but I think he either, I had told the cast. So the girls knew and I'm like, did someone tell their husband, you know, got back to Jordan, but maybe he also just knew I was in LA and speculated, you know, but he was definitely trying to get ahead of something, which is ironic because I'm the one who ended it. I told him on Friday the 13th, so not that long ago. And I just said I want a divorce. He definitely didn't want it. And now he's the one rushing to do it, which is a little strange. We're going to get into all of that of how you obviously told him. So first I need to acknowledge, because literally right before we just sat down, more news broke. It was reported that allegedly Jordan's been involved in some pretty shady behavior for years, including allegedly spending money on escorts with your money. What is your response to that? So it's funny because when he filed the divorce, I ended it and it's, you know, irreconcilable differences is what we're saying, but he put in the papers that we ended it because I had an affair and he's talking about Marciano, the person I kissed a year and a half ago. That's what he put as the reason. And I was like, what? We've worked through that. It's already been proven on TV that I didn't sleep with him. So crazy. But the ironic thing about that is I do have proof and screenshots that when season one dropped, I had an escort service reach out to me and they sent me screenshots of his phone number and messages and he was trying to meet up with them. He got a hotel room and I have all of that. And so he's, you know, I protected him through all the Marciano stuff. And he denied it to me when I brought it to him and he said, we're in Hollywood now. People are going to try to do this to tear us apart. It's probably AI, but it wasn't. It was real. How did you find out it was real? Someone messaged me and she worked for the escort service and she called me and was like, I work for this. You can like look into it. She sent me so much proof. So. So you can confirm by speaking to this woman that he was involved with escorts. Yeah. And she sent the screenshots and it's his phone number. She wouldn't have known his phone number. Like I literally have it. And what kind of proof was she showing you? Just the messages he had sent and his phone number being attached. Also, she said this happened while he was in Texas and he was in Texas doing summer sales at the time. And this was before we filmed the show. So no one would have known that. So. Do you know after that moment if he continued with other escorts? I don't know, but I do know that literally like a month ago, my sister was out to dinner with her husband and a friend of his came up to them and he's like, Hey man, like, how are you doing? And then he's like, by the way, are Jesse and Jordan still married? And they were like, yeah, why? And he goes, I go to these parties and he's always there. And especially when they had their daughter, he was there a lot. That was like the time he was, you know, being seen. So I don't, I don't have proof of those, but that's what I've heard. When you hear that, like, where does your head go? You know what's so messed up is my sister told me this like a few weeks ago and she was like, I'm so sorry, like expecting me to cry. And I was like, you know what? This was like my final straw. Like I needed to hear this to like be okay with like moving on. Now looking back, I'm like, you didn't have form protect him because you went through this whole scandal of kissing Marceano twice. Which by the way, I kissed Marceano like two weeks after I found out about the escort stuff. And so I do think that influenced my decision, not that it was okay, but I protected Jordan when that all came out. Okay, wait, hold on. So you find out before season one about the escort. Yeah. You start filming season one. No, we had filmed season one when it dropped. We were in New York and I found out when it was like live season one just came out. We're in New York doing press and that's when I found out. And he completely denies the whole thing. Then you get proof and he continues to deny it. I showed him the proof and he was like, no, like they're gonna, they're gonna try to do this test. Then the Marceano thing happens and you two weeks later, why did you protect him? Because he denied it. And at the time I did believe him where I was like, you know, like, I just, I think I was just putting my head in the sand and I was like, I don't want to know anything. Like it's fine. Like I just really just tried to believe him. And then I did actually kiss someone. So then I felt so guilty. And when this came out, like I just was like, I have to own it because I did something wrong. I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to like deflect. So when do you think you stopped believing him? I think I always did believe it deep down. But then after he, the way he reacted during the Marceano stuff made me question it because you know how they say if someone else is hiding something, they're gonna accuse you of more. So I think that that's what made me realize is I'm like, are you hiding something? So you're like putting it all on me. Okay. We're going to get to the Marceano thing because I want to go through all of that. But when it is alleged that he was using your money to pay for parties and for escorts, can you confirm that? I mean, it's hard to say at the time of the escorts, he did work. So it could have been his, but when you're married, everything's both of yours. As of the last three years, everything has been my money. Like he does not work. I provide everything. And so if anything's happened within the last three years, it had been my money for sure. And when this site was saying that he was paying for parties, what kind of parties do you think he was paying for? I have to believe their orgies like sex parties. I don't know what other kind of parties you would pay for. Like you just go to a party, you know? So that's what I have to believe. I've actually never asked him about this. I've just heard about it. But the funny thing is I heard through my sister who heard from someone who was there, and now it's also being reported. So I'm like, clearly there's some truth to it. Do you think any other people in dad talk were participating in these orgies? I have no idea. That's actually, I actually haven't even thought about that possibility until now. I have no clue. We're like back to season one of swinging but worse. Yeah, sweeters. We're like, wait, we're like taking it up a notch, you know. Have you talked to any of the women about this? I have only told Macy and Makayla. What is their response? They were like, he's disgusting. To be fair, everyone in my life, friends, family, employees, everyone hates him. Like no one, when I got divorced, everyone I've told so far, it's been like, congratulations. Not one person has been like, I'm so sorry. I was going to say the entire internet is like, thank God she's so free. Yes. Yep. How has that felt seeing the public's response be so not only just positive to your divorce, but like grateful that you're removing yourself from this? It was validating in a way because I'm like, okay, I made the right decision, you know? If everyone feels this way, there's got to be a reason. Because I was a little bit in denial for a while. I will say like there is a part of me, like he's getting ripped apart online right now, and I do feel bad. Like people are like talking about his looks, his personality, he'll never date anyone again. And so like there is a part of me that like, I'm like, oh, I just like, it's not that I chose to break up with him during that because of it, but it just lined up that way. So I do feel guilty, but. But do you think he actually won't date anyone ever again? No. Has he been seeing anyone since you guys have been separated in the past few? Well, it's funny because when I left him, he was like trying to be like, you're probably cheating on me again, you know, because that's his only thing he, you know, blames me about. But I was like, no, this is because I'm not in love with you. This isn't about anyone else. I want to be alone. But I do think he's been talking to people. I've heard that through the grapevine. So. But now you can even see from your energy, you're like, I don't give a fuck. No. Like literally get away from me. Yeah. Have you been in touch with Jordan since he filed? So he texted me, I think because he knew the news was going to be coming out after I got the TMZ text and he was like, by the way, I filed, but I didn't know it was going to be public. And I was like, that's funny because you gave him a statement. Like you literally emailed TMZ what to say. So he was like, well, you know, I was advised that it was what was best for me. And I was just like, do not talk to me anymore. We will handle the kids through a third party. He has a history of being emotionally abusive. And so I was like, I'm not going to get into this. So we're done here and we're going to handle the kids through someone else. Is it true I heard you change your phone number? Yeah. He has no clue what it is now. I have my own phone to communicate with him about the kids, but he doesn't know my new phone number. It's going to be very separate now. How did you decide that was the right decision for you? Because he's spied on me in the past. Do you want to hear a funny story? Please. You know, Harry Jowsy. Yes. So we have the same birthday. So last May, this was when me and Jordan are separated. I responded to Harry's story and I was like, oh my gosh, birthday twins. He like voice memos me. And you know how he talks. He's like, you naughty kitten, whatever. He's like, you naughty little Posse. That's what it was. He was like, how's your birthday going naughty Posse? And I was like, good. How's yours? He's like, great. I'm going on a hike. That's it. Okay. This is an Instagram. I'm in Europe. I get a call at 4am from Jordan. He's like, do you have to tell me something? And I was like, what do you mean? He went to the links. He hacked my Instagram while we're separated, created a fake phone number to then send himself the audios and then have the phone number say, dude, I think you should know about this. Your wife's cheating on you. So he accused me of cheating on him with Harry Jowsy, said it was someone else, and then I found out it was him. And that's all it was. The audios are so innocent. Like it was just like, hey, how are you? Jesse, that's insane. So that's why I got a new phone number because he has done stuff like that. He's tracked me. He's like listened in on my cameras and my house. So he's done stuff like that. So I was like, I have to like do things where he can't like look through my stuff. How did you find out he was tracking you? Well, he like has my location, but he like is very weird if I ever turned it off. He's like, why did you turn off your location? Like he's very strange about it. And with the cameras and all that, like that is like a full safety issue. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like there were times I was on the phone during our separation that he would like repeat conversations back to me and he's like, I listened in on the camera and I'm like, oh, and now that he's at home, he's unplugged all the cameras. So I can't like do anything, you know, like I wouldn't try to anyway, but he's, he's calculated. Like what? Yeah, you're like, you're the one paying for escorts. You're the one going to orgy parties. And then his paranoia is completely being projected onto you. And he gets to be the victim, you know. And you're like, wait, how do you even think of this? It's like, cause he's doing it himself. Yes. Yep. Are you still living together in that house? No. So I left when I left, I said, you know, we need to figure out what to do with the house. And he was like, well, you can stay in the spare bedroom of the house I paid for. And I was like, you know, I think I'm going to leave because he does have a history of being emotionally abusive and we have had really bad fights where I've also been really angry, you know, don't get me wrong. And I was like, I don't think it's good for us to live together right now. So I'm at a hotel again. And that's where I've been for the last week and a half. But Jesse, why are you always the person that has to leave the house when you are the sole provider, you paid for that house? Like that's your house. I mean, I have a text where he's like, you wanted this so you can leave. Like he's, he's making me, but also he's like, well, you can stay in the spare bedroom if you want, but I don't feel right about living there with him. Also, he could spy on me if I'm at the house. He could have cameras that I don't know about. So I'm kind of like, I need to have that space and distance, but I'm going to sell the house and we're going to each get our own place. How are the kids doing? They don't know yet. So that's the sad part about him leaking this before I did is I have no idea what they're thinking. If I don't know if he told them while I'm out of town without telling me, they're young, they're six and three. So they'll be okay. You've been able to like FaceTime. Yeah, I FaceTimed them this morning and it was funny because I was talking to Jagger, my son, and Jordan was like kind of like snapping at him. And I was like, Jordan, don't do that. And he goes, don't talk to me. And I was like, okay, so that's how this is going to be. So it's kind of hostile between me and Jordan at the moment, but the kids are going to be fine. And so are the kids staying in the house with Jordan while you're in the hotel? Yeah. I've tried, I've seen them a little bit where I'm like, hey, I'm going to take them. And he's like, well, you can't take them overnight in a hotel. So he's trying to control me, but I've been to a lawyer and we're going to do a 50-50 custody agreement. But I provided for those kids their whole lives. They want their mom. Like they know who their mom is. And I know I'm a good parent. I know he's going to try to mom shame me. That's going to be his MO. But I know my kids are going to be just fine. You're ready? Yes. There's so much you just said. And I know there's so much we've seen also on television, but I also know there's a lot that we haven't seen because there's so many cast members and there's only so much of your life that can be shown. So I do kind of want to go back and talk about your relationship because I want to eventually get to how you confronted him that you said you wanted a divorce, what his reaction was. We're going to get into all that. But first, let's just unpack. When you look back at the early days with Jordan, what was your relationship like in the very beginning days? It was good. We met very quickly. I blame our dynamic on that, honestly, because I had been married before. So this is my second divorce. And I separated. So to put it into context, I separated from my first husband in September, and I got married in March. So it was really quick. I think I leaned on him for emotional support. He was going through a breakup, so was I, and we just kind of connected and clicked. And I think that I had been treated really badly in my first marriage as well, which now looking back, I'm like, this is a pattern. Like I get into these situations because I'm self-conscious and I have issues. But he was there for me. So I think I just dove right in. The first year was fine, though. So would you say that first year you weren't arguing that much? No, yeah, it was pretty good. But I actually think that looking back, he's always been pretty controlling. And I think at the time I was just happy to be out of my last marriage. We had just had our son. I was just kind of in a bubble. And then I started to notice patterns. What would typically set off an argument between the two of you? His control. I felt controlled in every aspect of my life. And he used to try to say, oh, I can't control you. You're not able to be controlled. I try and I can't. Because I'm independent. In those early days, what do you look back and be like, oh, that was fully controlled. And maybe I didn't see it at the time. Oh my god. I mean, it's just he tries to control every aspect of my life, my business, how I should run my business. He would mom shame me and tell me how to parent, but then not do it himself. If I left the fridge door open, that beep that happens, I'd get yelled at. So to this day, when I hear a beep of the fridge, my body goes into fight or flight. It's just little things like that that add up. But also, if I wanted to go to dinner with friends, it was like, well, what are you going to be home? What are you doing? Where are you? Like just constant. And was there any patterns when the arguments would start? Like what do you look back on? I think that's why our relationship got to a pretty bad place is because I'm pretty vocal and independent. So for the first year or two, I was just like, okay. And I think Jordan wants someone submissive. So I was kind of like that in the beginning. And then it started to get to this place where I'm like, no. And I would fight back. And so then it was just like really bad because I'm fighting back and that makes it worse for him. And so we're just like going at it. Are there any things that he would like verbally criticize you for? Everything. Everything. I remember being in therapy before we were like in the public eye and being like, I need you to criticize me less. It's like 90% criticism and 10% compliments. Anything I did, like how I run my business, how I parented, my time management, how I cleaned the house, like every little thing. Even like how I would like dress and like, you know, things like that. Like what would he say about how you dress? Oh, like that skirt's a little short. Are you going to wear that? Like, you know, like just stuff like that. So it just felt like I was constantly being dumped on. I will say there was right before we separated last year before, like after the Marciano stuff, he had told me he wanted me to start doing Pilates every single day. Like he told me that. And then he said, I think I believe in traditional gender roles and I want to be more in my masculine and I want you to be more in your feminine. And I was like, so like just controlling areas like that as well. And I was like, do you know who you're marrying to? That is like so fucking backwards. And also like, I'm also just like, how, how crazy for him to also like physically expect you to do Pilates every single day, be the breadwinner, take care of the children, take care of him. Like there's such an unrealistic expectation when he's not even raising himself to any capacity of that standard. And to be fair also, he doesn't work and we had a full-time nanny. So like he wasn't even helping with the kids until nighttime. Was there anything that he expected to get approval over in your relationship from you? Oh, yeah, I feel like everything. Like it felt like I couldn't make a move without talking to Jordan about it. You know, like I had to get his advice, his opinion. Like, but the thing is I never wanted to confide in him either because he's, he's not someone that is like, yes, like let me help you feel better. And like give you advice in a logical way. It's always like putting me down while he's giving me advice and like playing devil's advocate, but telling me what I did wrong. And how would he justify that to you or try to justify it? He's like, I just know things. Like I'm really like, I, I'm smart in these areas. Like you should listen to me, like look at all the mistakes you've made. Look at all the friends you've lost. You need to listen to me. So yeah. And now that I'm saying these out loud, I'm like, this is weird. No, no, no, it's not. It's first of all, do not feel weird or shame or embarrassed. Like I think so many women relate to this. It's more, I'm cringing at him because of like the self righteousness that these men have over women. When again, it's like, you're home, you're the breadwinner, you're the one that's working, you're the one that was on mom talk, we'll get to dad talk, don't worry. Can you explain though, like what did a conflict like actually look like between the two of you? You're in the house, you're going through this dynamic, like what was that like? The last five years, we have not, we've thought every single day, every single day, like imagine being in that with your partner who you're supposed to like trust the most. I would say the worst it got and actually why I separated from him last year is because this was the Pilates conversation. He got to a point where he was blackmailing me with the Marciano texts and he had them on a draft on his phone on TikTok and anytime he was mad at me, he's like, I'm going to post them, I'm going to ruin your life. So we were fighting over this Pilates stuff and he was like, I'm going to post the TikToks. And so I went to go grab his phone. I was like, Jordan, no, at this point, no one knew about what I had done. And I was like, you're going to ruin my life, like, and my business too. Like I employ 50 people, like this could ruin everything. And he goes, so he's like, okay, and I'm freaking out. So I'm like trying to get his phone. I'm like kind of chasing him trying to get it. He pulls out his phone, starts recording me and he's like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? Are you going to be like, Taylor, should I call the cops? And I was like, whoa, because he's friends with Dakota. So he's like hearing things like that, obviously. And so he's baiting me and he's trying to be like, oh, oh, what are you doing? And that was the moment where for me, I was like, what am I doing? I am chasing around my husband trying to get his phone so he doesn't blackmail me. This is not healthy. And I literally left him the next day. I was like, this can't happen anymore. I mean, you're like a complete prisoner in your own home where you're like, from what I understand, he decided to stay with you after that information. There was not even a second where he like didn't. So yeah. And then he continues to use this information as blackmail to further control you in the relationship, knowing that this cycle is going to continue because you're going to feel like shit because you do feel guilty about what you did. Also now having the information that you did know about the escorts that he completely gaslit you into believing didn't exist when now we know that actually was the case. And he was the first person to step outside of the marriage. And then you, I'm not saying what you did was okay, but you kiss this man twice. You do not sleep with him. And this man is then blackmailing you into just fearing for your career and your reputation. That's horrible. It is. And like, I should have done what I did. I regret it so much. I just want to make that so clear. Like for my kids to like have to hear about that one day, I want to take full responsibility. Of course. Of course. But I will say that like having your partner blackmail you in that way, it was something I can, I could never get over. Even after we got back together and went through therapy, like the person that you love the most and should care about you the most, even though you hurt them, should never put you in a situation where you feel like inside, you never, like you're walking on eggshells and you never know if your life's about to be ruined. And they have that power over you. So that was honestly like something that really ruined us. And yeah, it was traumatizing. It's traumatizing and it's really sick because it's like he's getting off. Yeah. On enjoying watching you have to be beholden to him. Yeah. The control. Completely. When you look back at from beginning days to then obviously now you can see like the clear delineation between like whether it was like, oh, this is not the best relationship to like this is emotional abuse. Yeah. Did it feel in the beginning when those really big fights started like, okay, maybe this is just like normal relationship struggles or from the beginning did you start to immediately be like, this is unhealthy. How do I get out? So my first marriage was pretty emotionally abusive, like worse than this one. And I again, got married so quickly that I didn't have time to heal from that. So I think I attracted the same type of person without like realizing. And I think in my head, I was justifying it because I'm like, no, Jordan saved me from my other marriage. Like he's my savior. Like that's how I saw him. Like he saved me from this dynamic. So there's no way he's doing this to me. And then over time, like same patterns of what I saw before in my past relationship like arised and I was like, oh, but I had never said out loud to anyone, my friends and families, my friends and family were aware. They knew that he didn't treat me well. No one liked him. They would bring it up to me, but I would just kind of be like, that's Jordan. But then in season four, you see my energy healer. She actually, I was doing a session with her and this was the same night of that Pilates fight actually. And she, I sat down and she goes, are you safe? And I was like, what do you mean? And she goes, I just have a feeling I need to ask you. And I just, I told her everything and it was the first time I said it out loud. And that was like the moment also that I was like, I have to leave him. And that's why we separated last year. Cause I'm like, as I'm saying out loud, she goes, Jesse, this is emotional abuse. And I never like, it didn't click to me until in that moment. How did it change for you after you said it out loud? It was like a wait had fallen off where I was like, and it was almost like something clicked. And I was like seeing it clearly for the first time. And I was like, oh, like I just kind of like was like, that's Jordan's personality. Like this marriage is hard, you know, like, which it is, but that's how I justified it. But when she literally, I had someone saying this is emotional abuse. And then I started opening up to my friends and family and they were like, Jesse, this isn't normal. It felt like the glass that shattered. Well, and just to also validate any woman who is going through this, it's like, so many people can be like, oh my God, is there a pattern? Like you went through this in your first marriage since the second, it's like, of course there's a pattern because it's so hard to break out of. It's familiar. It's something that you get used to. It's like you've been beaten down and you're sitting there and your self-worth is depleted and you're not feeling good about yourself. So then you find someone like a Jordan who like emotional abuse does not just start day one. No. It's like it is this very, very crazy, like confusing masked thing that you can't, it's not tangible. You can't see it. And so it's psychological. And when it's so embedded psychologically, there is also something within you that is willing to be like, but maybe I am not worthy and this is maybe what I am going through. And so like maybe I deserve this or maybe this is normal because if you've only lived seeing that and like, I don't know much about your upbringing, but like, did you have like a good representation of love in your life? Yeah, I have the best family. So that's what's crazy is like my parents, my sisters, like best family in the world, which by the way, my sisters love you and like they're so excited. I love them. But no, I have the best family. I think it was like childhood wounds of like not feeling good enough with other friends and you know, things like that. And then I got into things where I didn't feel good enough already and then I got into that and it was like 10 times worse and you're right, it's familiar. So I looked for the same person subconsciously because it's what I was used to and that quote is so like old, but it's so true of like you accept the love you think you deserve. And that's what happened to me. I think it was season three. I remember just feeling so bad for you and your family when your sisters were sitting on the ground, your mom was there and you were like, I could tell my mom wasn't even shocked and she like was like hoping we would really just end it was when you guys were about to go into the 90 day break and your sister was like, you haven't been Jesse for so long. And it was like this outcry to you, but also you could tell she was so aware like she couldn't get to you, but she wanted you to know that like she still remembered who you were without this abuse and like she knew you were going to come back to yourself one day. And it takes you being it like no one can get you out of it by yourself, right? Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because I do feel like I've been a shell of myself in this relationship. And I used to tell that to Jordan. He's like, like that's not true. Like you have every right to make your own life. And I'm like your partner affects you so much. Like they can influence every single thing about your life, your happiness and I did lose myself. And the people closest to me saw that. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what kind of romantic connection that you and Jordan were able to maintain with each other while having this emotionally abusive relationship? So our sex life was like pretty good for a while because again, I hadn't really realized what was going on. I was just kind of hiding it, but I will say since the separation and getting back together, my body has told me. I want women in this situation to know that like your body will tell you. I like anytime you tried to have sex with me, I would clam up, I would have panic attacks after I would cry after I didn't want him to touch me. Like even if he was just like passing me like in the house and like grabbed my arm or whatever, I was like, don't touch me. And I would say that to him and he's like, what's wrong with you? But your body knows. So I just want like anyone in the situation, men or women, like the everyone goes through it at some point, not everyone, but people have gone through it. Listen, your body knows like that book, your body keeps the score. Of course. My body was trying to tell me for like a whole year. Right. Like we're not safe. Of course you can't relax and enjoy yourself in an intimate setting with someone that you don't feel safe with. I also think there was such a highlight when we would watch the seasons on the success of your business and mom talk. Jordan did end up quitting his job so that he could help with the kids and so he could film more. Initially, were you guys aligned on that decision for him to quit his job? Yes, because at the time he quit, we had just had our daughter. So she was a newborn. We had our toddler as well and he was traveling for work. So he was in Texas, California, like all over the place. And I was like, I can't run a business. Start to film this show and raise two kids. So I did initiate that. I was like, I need you to like, but I did say I need you to find something here. I thought he was still going to work. He just took that as I'm going to quit and we were, I was making good money. So like he didn't need to work. But looking back, I'm like, I should have like had him help out with the kids more though. Like he got to golf all day. How do you think becoming the sole provider of the family impacted your relationship long term? I think that for me in the future, I am totally fine being that person. I'll probably always make the most money. But I do want a guy that has like passions and like something of his own. It doesn't matter how much money he makes. But I will say with Jordan, since he believes in like the traditional gender roles, I think he really loved the lifestyle I provided, but he had a really hard time being like, I'm not the man, I'm not the provider, which is such a Mormon, like toxic way of thinking. All the men, like look at the men in our group. Like a lot of them had those issues. So I think he was very like intimidated by it, but he also liked having the money. Right. It's like his ego once the door opened and it was public, couldn't take it. But behind the scenes, he's like, I love this. I'm golfing every day. Exactly. He has it so easy. But then the minute someone checks him, he's like embarrassed and can't take it. Yes. Did he ever start to make any comments to you negatively about how being a stay at home dad made him feel? Oh, he just told me from the beginning. He said, I believe in gender roles and not from the beginning, but like when he quit his job. Sorry. He goes, I'm just, you know, I'm not meant to be that role. And he would mom shame me a lot. Like the kids need their mom. You're gone a lot. And so I can't fill that role. Like I'm the dad and I'm not meant to be a stay at home dad. I don't want to do that. So it was hard for me because I'm like, I want to partner that if I do have to work and travel for that job, I can trust that like the dad wants to be with the kids. Like this is a partnership. You're not a babysitter. You chose to have these children. Right. It's not. Well, it's also just so unfair. It's like he's getting to enjoy all the spoils of your hard work. But then he's also like, and you have to do all the stuff that I'm also not really doing that I should be doing because I got to go golf. I got a tea time at 8am, babe. And you're like, do you know how many times I've heard that sentence? And you're like, there's no fucking way. There's no way. It's so bad. Eventually Jordan did, I don't even want to say return to work kind of through dad talk. What was your initial reaction to that? So at first the dads got together to like make funny videos to make fun of us. So we were like, this is hilarious. I don't think we ever thought it was going to turn into what they tried to make it. As time went on, I was like, okay, this is like cringy. Like I don't like this. And it became a thing with me and Jordan where it was like competitive. We were competing like you got this opportunity, you got this many followers, you got this many views. Look what I got. He became very competitive with it. And I was like, this is gross. Men should not be acting this way in a relationship where it's like you're threatened by like my success that pays our bills. So it turned into a really hostile thing for us. Did you talk about this with the other women? Like did they feel this also? Like I'm cringing from dad talk. All of us, yes. Like we all made fun of it. We're like, what is happening? And it's hard because everyone, the audience is always like, less dad talk. And we're like, we agree, but also they're in our lives. And this is about our lives. So it's really hard to like not have them around. But now for me, it'll be easier. No, that's a good point. I remember he said, dad talk doesn't need to be in mom talks shadows. But first of all, there wouldn't be a dad talk if there wasn't mom talk and everything that you guys have built. Did you feel like he was riding on your coattails? 1000%. I mean, any brand deal that he got was because of me. We had to do them together. He may, maybe has gotten one or two on his own, but like we did one with Cafe Rio. We had to do it together. So everything was tied to me. And so, and even like he's on cameo and he'll try to be like, come say hi in this cameo. You know, so great. It's like you're getting used and you're like, if it really is your own thing, then do it as your own thing. Don't have to involve me because then it should just be, it's then it's getting my money. Yeah, exactly. Going back to the affair. I think that obviously now even just sitting here, like I'm trying to rack my brain because I obviously didn't know that the escorts came before Marciano. So I'm sure everyone's watching this and we're all like, the meme of the woman like doing the math and like, hold on, like it really changes so much because I'm now, I'm sure people are going to go back and clip things of like the way he acted and how he was so upset with you and the betrayal, which was so fair. But now I'm like, oh my God, he was such a liar. Like he was the, he was, what? Like, when you look back, you said that that moment was essentially a cry for help. When you stepped outside of the marriage. What did you mean by that? So I felt so trapped in that marriage, you know, like I couldn't do anything right. I was so beaten down emotionally and I was just so unhappy, deeply unhappy in what I was in. But I felt trapped like not only with like my money and my business like you saw in season four, but also just he made me feel like I couldn't leave. And so, and for my kids too. So I was just really, really upset and I met Marciano and it was the first person who was like, nice to me and told me I was cool and pretty and fun and like that I was worth something. And I just remember being like, oh, like this is how a man should talk to you. And not that it's okay what I did by any means, but I do feel like I was like, I'm going to, I remember thinking like, if I do this tonight, just kissing him, by the way, it will give me a reason to be done. Like it'll give Jordan a reason to leave me like I can be free. And so in a way it was like you were looking for an out. You were almost like kind of trying to self-sabotage. Yes, even if it was me that like did the bad thing, I was like, maybe this could end it. And when then you guys went on that 90 day break and you did decide to stay together, what was fueling you to not just walk away? I was so scared. And that's how I felt the last year to be honest, but I was scared of being alone. I was scared of hurting him. I was scared of the unknown and the kids like I've been divorced before and it sucked. And this time I have kids. So I'm like, I don't want to go through that and put my family through it with the business and the pre-nep and all that. There was just so much weighing on me with that. So I was just scared. I was really, really scared. In that time, obviously we saw some stuff on camera, but like what conversations with this affair coming to light, did it force you to have with Jordan? Like was there anything you were able to admit about the relationship that you had been previously too scared to say? He had been well aware of how I felt about like the emotional abuse and all that, but he never acknowledged it until the affair came out and it was public. And we started going to therapy during our separation and in therapy, he finally admitted like, I do know I got you to this place. I am the instigator in this. I started this cycle and it was emotional abuse. He has said all of those words to me. He may deny it now, but he has said all of that, but he had never said that before. Okay. So that gives a little bit of clarity of why you would be like, okay, maybe there is some path to moving forward. Yes. Someone saying like, I see that this was emotional abuse. I see I got you here. Like I'm willing to change. Yeah. Why not give it a shot? Right. Having kids with them, you're like, whoa. Yeah. Because most people, you'd expect them to never admit that. Of course it wasn't on camera, but like. And I will say the last year Jordan has made some changes. Like he's really tried in a lot of areas, but I think for me, it was like you're trying and you are making changes, but it's, I'm still not in love with you. And at the end of the day, like you do deserve to be loved the way that works for you and same with me. And if you're going to make these changes, great for yourself, but it doesn't work for me. But I gave it my all and I had that year to really try and I don't regret it now because I, I did everything I could. You can genuinely say and look at your kids and be like, I tried. Yes. Something that is a byproduct of being in a toxic situation or an abusive situation is the way that it impacts your self image and your self worth. Yeah. You posted a really vulnerable TikTok where you opened it up about regretting some of the cosmetic procedures that you've done recently. Why was that something you decided to share? Because I do get a lot of hate for what I get done and I didn't want everyone watching, thinking that I just like wanted to look this way or I wanted this. Like it didn't go the way I planned and so I wanted to talk about it, but it also has made me realize like I got my surgeries after season four. And I looked back and I was like, I looked so good in season four. What was I thinking? And I never would have been able to say that before, but it gave me like clear perspective of like, I don't need to get all this work done. But I think I was in two marriages where like, I had two husbands who treated me so badly that I was like, that was the only thing I could control. And that may sound weird, but it was like, I can't do anything else, right? So like I can control my appearance. And I think it became a coping mechanism for me. To have the ability to control something in your life when everything else is chaos is a way that we, and our heads cope and survive. But I think obviously sometimes then it can be at the detriment of ourselves. We just don't see it in the moment. What do you think is your biggest regret when it came to those procedures? So I got one surgery like three months ago and that was, I just shouldn't have done any of it. I got an upper and lower bleph and then some fat grafting in the face, but I didn't want the fat grafting. I just kind of said, I just wanted the eyes and he was like, well, you need this to balance it out. And I was like, okay, I just kind of listened to what I was told. And looking back, I'm like, I didn't need that or want that. So I just wish that I would have not done any of it because I didn't need it. You know? No, and I can imagine like, even you saying like, now you're getting to this place where you're watching season four and you're like, what the fuck? Like I looked great. You look great now. Like don't be that hard on yourself. But I get it. It's more of like an internal thing of like watching yourself drive yourself to a point where you're thinking something's going to solve something. Yes. And really that's not the solve. You could continue to get work done. That's not really the issue. Yeah. Throughout season four, all of the women were so vocal about how much they disliked Jordan. Like it was every scene it felt like, right? What do you think overall was their biggest issue with him? The way he treated me for sure. They saw things. They heard things. And just the way he's kind of demeaning to women and he would talk badly about my friends, which is so weird to be like, my husband's talking shit on my best friend. Like what do I do? It was such a hard position to be in. And he's a big mouth and he would tell people things and kind of exaggerate things. You kind of see that play out. But I think those issues were what everyone struggled with. Well, yeah. I almost think there's like a thing with men where you're like, okay, women, we can like gossip. Like, no, it's not for boys. Like literally this is a woman's game. Like stop gossiping and shit stirring. Like you need to get out. Like this is a woman's field. Okay. Influencing is also our area. Thank you. That is how I feel. I'm like, it's icky. Like stop. No, that makes sense. Because I think and also seeing their distaste for him, I felt, yeah, it just felt really palpable where it couldn't be escaped. I also thought that what was really hard. I remember it was episode one where you walk in and you have this overnight bag. And what was so sad, Jesse, was like the fact that your friends like know the exact bag that you usually carry if you'd spent the night at the hotel and you didn't sleep at your home. Like it was that obvious to them because it clearly was that clearly like occurring quite often. I just like, I guess when you would show up to those events and he would be there and you would have your bag like and you would have to put on a brave face when you look back. Like is there anything you wish you could have done differently in those moments for yourself? Oh my gosh. I'm so glad you asked this because something I've realized throughout all this is I have gotten very good at stuffing my emotions down and like I'm here because you know now the show I have so many things I have to do. I have to be on camera. But before that I was teaching hair classes and I was running a business. So I had gotten huge fights with Jordan and then I have to turn it on and go teach hundreds of people and be there for my employees. And I literally had to learn that as a coping mechanism to the point where it's really hard for me to cry now and it's really hard for me to face my emotions and be vulnerable. The show has helped me. I watched season four and I was like, oh I cried more than I thought. Okay, that's good. It's progress. But yeah, I'm very good at just being like, I'm totally fine. And I wish that I would have just taken more time to like look internally and be like, you're not okay. And it's okay to not be okay. And you don't have to put on a brave face. And I'm working on that in therapy now. But that's it. It's a great point. It's like we watched it in that scene. But then you're right. You did cry this season. We watched you cry at your anniversary dinner. Because you were concerned about the future of your relationship. And meanwhile, Jordan suggested renewing your vows. How were you both on such different pages in that moment? I mean, Jordan wanted this. You know, he wanted to stay. He wanted to make this work. So I think he was just grasping at straws, trying to be like, what can I do? And maybe he thought it was like romantic. But I literally, I think you could see it in my body language. I'm like, this isn't the time. Like, no, you can't even like, it made me feel like he wasn't even listening to me. You recently changed your last name for business purposes, is how it was presented. And Jordan did not take it well. And he called you extremely selfish. Now that you are getting divorced, which we're about to get to, was it really for business purposes, or was that you consciously or subconsciously kind of taking that first step of? Yeah. Yeah, it was an easy first step, almost. I definitely did it for business reasons, because I was like, my name's hard to say. Naty Cara is so hard to pronounce. So it made sense. I also have a family business. We're all draper. So it made sense. But I do think deep down, I was like, if this ever happens, it'll be easier because everyone will know me as Jesse Draper already. Do you think he kind of knew what was happening? And that's why he was freaking out so much? Oh, yeah. Like completely. And he also, like he likes to justify it this way. But he was like, so when I met Marciano in the villa, we had all had a conversation at the villa about our names and how to spell them. And they were trying to figure out how to spell my last name. Everyone is a group. And I was like, well, my last, my other last name is Draper. Like you can call me that instead. And so Marciano would call me that. So he was like, you're doing this because you want Marciano again. And he like completely flipped it into something like that. And I think that's why he like called me selfish 20 times and stuff like that. What is the saddest of your relationship with Marciano? Oh, I have not talked to him in almost a year. Yeah, that's that's done and over. Don't worry. Okay, let's go to the divorce. Yeah. What was the actual moment you knew you needed? Okay, it's going to happen. I need this divorce. So in the last year, I've told him actually a few different times I want to get divorced, but he always like calms me down, give me a few days, let's try to work on it. He's better for a few days and then it goes back. But what happened was I had been in limbo for a while and anyone that's lived in limbo knows it's excruciating where I'm like, I don't know if this is right or not. I literally woke up one day and I was like, it's such a simple thought, but I was like, I can change this. I can change my life. I can be happy. It's going to be hard, but I can do this and my life doesn't have to be this way. And it was like something flipped and I was like, I'm done. And I could not go back after that. It was the weirdest thing. Okay, so can you walk me through moment by moment of that day? Like, how did you tell him? How did it, where were you? Okay, so this happened, that feeling came to me on a Thursday. And I told him on Friday, the next day, I wasn't going to tell him till the weekend because I was like, let's, you know, I'll get the kids out of the house and whatever. But on Friday, he came up to my room. I was getting ready in my closet and he was like, I just talked to the kids therapists because we have him in therapy and she thinks we need to start going together every week with them. And can you make that happen? And I was like, I'm leaving you this weekend like, but I couldn't say that. So I was like, I just don't know if our, if our schedules are going to work, like it may work if you take them and I take them. And he was like, why the kids are the most important thing? Like why? And I was like, I want to get divorced. I just said it. And he was like, okay. And his emotions were like calm, then mad. And then he kind of gaslit me and was like, you're not healed enough. That's why, like you can't love yourself yet. So you need to figure that out first and then you'll realize this isn't what you want. And then he was like, you know, you're cheating on me again. And I'm like, like, it was all over the place. And I just had to be like, Jordan, like, I need you to know, I've thought about this every single day for the last four years. And this is, I'm choosing myself. And, you know, we thought a little bit, but he finally understood. And yeah. So then he finally understands, does he leave the room and like, do you just go about your day? No, he's like still talking to me. And it kind of got to a point where he was like gaslighting me and stuff. So I finally was like, this is how most of our fights are. I'm like, I'm leaving. I need you to stop. And he literally followed me downstairs and I had to like get in my car and drive off. And then did you sleep in the house that night? No, I have not been back since I've been back to see the kids. I did sleep there one night actually, but other than that, I've been at a hotel. How was sleeping there that one night? So, okay, this is where actually I think a lot of women in the world relate. So I was in a hotel and I had a girl's night with my friends. This was maybe two days after I left and we were drinking wine and just talking about it. And I was like so sad and I could not sleep that night. And at 4am, I was like, I'm Ubering home. I want to be with my kids. I want to be in my house. I just felt so like I didn't have a home. I was like so misplaced. And I went home and I just, I went into the bed and he was there and I ended up having sex with him because he was like just one more time, one more time. And I told him no probably 20 times. And I was like, okay, but if I do this doesn't change anything. And he was like, it won't, it won't. And I did, but literally I'm so glad I did because after that moment I was like, nope, never again, never again. This was my answer. You're like, I'm so repulsed by so many things happening right now. Yeah. I need to get out of here. And I was drunk and sad. And I just was like, I miss my family. And but yeah, it was a good closing of the chapter. Damn. Yeah. And so the next morning you wake up. And do you just get more clothes and go back to the hotel? And I never have been back since to sleep there. How are you managing that with your kids? So I will go over, so they go to school in the morning. And so he'll take them to school and then I'll pick them up and then be with them in the evening, put them to bed and then he'll come back and we just switch off. So I'm going to get a place soon where we can do 50-50, but I just don't want to take them to a hotel. Like, no, it'll be hard. And this house obviously, like, do you, do you think he's ready to get rid of this house? Absolutely not. No. But you're getting rid of it. I think it's the best thing to do. Can we talk about this prenup? Yeah. Because obviously season four, we watch you and every woman is like, no, like you make the money. How did this happen? Like, can you explain where are you at with the prenup? Are you okay? Are you going to have to give him 50% of everything you own? Where are we? So I went to lawyers who are amazing and they were like, okay, it's actually valid. You don't need a witness signature as long as both of you have signed it, which we have. So thank God. I don't have to give him anything for my businesses, but I will have to pay alimony and child support, most likely. And then I might have to do some sort of payout. We haven't gotten there yet because he filed yesterday. So I actually don't know the details of that yet, but I do know like he can't take my business or, you know, anything like that. So I'm happy about that. So he does, he's not entitled to anything with your business. That's a complete separate entity. Yes. It existed before you met him. Yes. It will continue to exist. And he never did anything to contribute to it. So. Right. Oh, right. That's probably a clause. Like how much did he contribute? He was working there maybe, you know, but no. And when it comes to this, do you feel like at all resentful if there's going to have to be a payout? A little bit. Kelsey Ballerini has a breakup album that I have been like so resonating with. And I think there was like a, like I had to give him half. There was like a lyric in there. And I resonate with that so much because I'm like, it sucks that like, yes, I made mistakes in this relationship too. And he does deserve something, but all the hard work that I've done, I've built my business up from the ground, me and my family. And you just get to like get a chunk of that. Like if I do have to do that. So because we have kids, I'm okay with it because I want them to have a dad who has some, some stability. Yeah, some stuff. Some stuff. But yeah, it just, it sucks. How do you feel though, because you referenced at the beginning of this episode, you said that he put in, it was because of the cheating. Yeah. It wasn't a recognizable differences, right? Do you think that's going to be changed? Do you think you are, I mean, you could technically say he also cheated? That's kind of why I'm willing to talk about it now. I mean, it did get leaked, but because I was like, well, are you trying to get more money out of me? And that's the reason you did that. Well, I'm going to tell them what you did then. There should be no secrets if you're going to out me like that. So how do you think he's going to react when he hears you talking about this? Oh, he's going to hate this. And he's going to mom shame me and say, I'm a bad mom for doing this, which by the way, I'm not excited to go expose this. Like, it does suck for our children, but I think as a mom, what I've had to come to terms with is that I will tell my children about my mistakes, my affair, my plastic surgery's gone wrong, this dynamic. I don't want my daughter to ever be treated the way I've been treated. And I just, I'm going to be honest with them. And I think that it's okay to talk about this because, A, we're on reality TV. We can't really hide from it. We can't have secrets when you're public. But B, like, I'm going to teach this to my children and tell them what to avoid and what to change, you know, in their lives if this ever happens to them. I think that's the right way to approach it, right? Like, that's all you can do is be honest. Yeah. Is he still denying the escorts? I have no idea. I haven't actually talked to him about it in a while. Now that it's leaking, I may hear from him about it, but I've just, I haven't brought it up with him since. It's going to be really interesting to see with the alleged orgies and the escorts, like, are there other people in Dad Talk or that world that were also partaking? Like, there's so much emphasis on you and especially just the women being these people and we're so focused on their wrongdoing. And it's like, well, what have the men been up to? No, literally. I do think the rest of the men are angels, like Jace, Jacob, Connor, like the sweetest men. I do not, no, absolutely not. I think that Jordan, it sounded like he was partaking in some of this when I was having Jovi is what it sounds like. And that was before he had met any of those guys. I mean, you never know, but like, I really think it was like how he's been for a while. Okay. How do you think your divorce will impact Mom Talk and just the future filming in general? That's a good question. Right now, I think we're all trying to survive. So we're like, let's not worry about cameras. Let's just get through this storm. But I think we are all excited to pick back up and just like continue to tell these stories. I mean, the fact that this is all happening while we're down, like my divorce, I didn't plan that. But I think it also shows that I made this decision for the right reasons, because Jordan would always tell me, like, you do things for the show. Like, you're just separating from me for the show. But I'm like, no, I did this with cameras down. So that shows you I'm serious. None of that conversation was filmed. Nothing, no. And then he goes to TMZ. And now you're here in long form getting to tell your truth. Wow. So now when cameras pick back up, you're going to essentially have to you know, fill in the gaps. Yeah, fill in the gaps. And I'm sure if we pick back up soon too, like, more is going to happen. This isn't over. How does it feel to sit here and tell your story? It feels surreal. You know what's so crazy is I, in season four, I was like, I really want to go on Call Our Daddy. I had said that. And I was like, maybe I'll get two for season three, because I just love you. But the timing wasn't right. It wasn't right. And now it is. Well, girl. We were like, but now I'm getting divorced. So I guess this word. Well, I would have come on six months ago and tried to protect him. And been like, we're working through it. It wouldn't have been genuine. And now I get to be free and like tell my story. So it feels really good. It is so sad. And also like you said, healing of like, yes, there's been so much damage done from the relationship. Yes. The fact that you are now able to look back and be like, that was an emotionally abusive relationship. I don't want my children to ever go through something like that. I don't want to continue to go through something like that. I need to leave. I do think it's also a testament to people watching of like, how hard it is to leave something that is abusive. You just said, I've been thinking about this Jordan for four fucking years. And when someone sits there and is like, but why didn't you leave? Like go back to what we've talked about, the manipulation, the way, the control, all the things, the fact that you just, a normal situation would be, I want a divorce and they'd say, oh my God, well, okay, I get. It's like, no, you're not healed. You're not in your right mind. It's constant. And I still have those thoughts now. I'm still like, even doing this, I'm like, he's going to be so mad. Do I need to protect him? Like that's my inner voice right now. How are you pushing through that and not self sabotaging and going back to him? Well, he pissed me off yesterday by filing. So I'm like, I'm going to burn it down. Shouldn't have done that. You're like, you know what? This is your doing. It is. I probably would have been a little bit like. Oh, and he did try to tell me because I was like, I'm done talking to you. We have to work through a third party for the kids. Now he goes, well, you did this. Just remember that you wanted this. And I'm like, I didn't go to TMZ. You did this. You started this war. Right. I wasn't going to make it messy, but now we're going to go to TMZ. Yep. He started the online stuff. Let's get into it. Yep. Okay. Dating. Like what are you feeling? Are you going to take some time before you jump back in? Is there anyone that you would be interested in that you have your eye on? Like what are we feeling? Oh my gosh. Alex, I haven't dated since I was 20. Like I got married at 21, married Jordan right after. Like I'm so nervous. Like I'm like a giddy 15 year old. Like I'm like, how do I date? Like I have no clue. Okay. You can't rush into anything. That's my mistake. Jesse. From last, I know I'm so impulsive. You know me already. I'm like, No, I'm like from the, for your first husband to then Jordan, you were like, and it's like, I get it. It's easier to not be alone at first because you're like, it's the comfort. And right now you're like, I don't want to sleep in a hotel room. Yeah. Like alone. No, I know. Trust me. I know. No jumping into something too quick. Trust me. I won't. I like, you can date. No, I want to date. I want to like not be tied down. I have my freedom back. So I don't want to like jump into anything. I'm sure I'll have guys I talk to and stuff. And like, that's where I need to like be careful because I could like jump into something without realizing it, you know, but no, I want to like go date and have fun and like meet new people. I don't even know what my type is anymore. Like who should I date? I don't know. I know. And I think there's something really exciting about, I think the world will be really interested to see you single. Yeah. Not just because it's going to be fun for content of dating. More so is like, what is Jesse like alone and in her power? And in her mind of just like being confident and getting back to that place that like, we probably haven't been able to fully see on TV. Oh my gosh. Chase from the show. I was talking to him because he's been divorced and he's been helping me through this. And he said to me the other day, he was like, this is what you've accomplished being held back. Like this is going to be fucking scary to see what you can do. And I was like, you're right. Like I could do anything. Such a good point. Yes. I was like, I'm literally like down. No, literally. Yes. And but I've accomplished so much doing that. So I'm like excited to spread my wings and just be like, no, I can do whatever I want. No, I'm really excited for you. And I think that even again, to see the internet's reaction being like, bitch, thank God, like get out of here. Like get rid of him. Let's go. The whole season felt like we were just like, so you're getting a divorce or not? Yeah. Everyone's like, leave that man. Oh, the minute the show came out, I woke up to hundreds of comments of like, leave him, leave him. And I just like didn't tell Jordan. I'm sure he saw it. I'm sure he saw. Yeah. But no, the fact that this is being celebrated, Miranda said that in the season. And she's like the fact that, oh, also Miranda, like shout out, like my friends, all of them, like Mikaela, Macy, Miranda, Layla, Taylor, like they have been there for me so much. I just want to give them a shout out. But Miranda told me like, this is going to be celebrated and it has and it's like been the craziest feeling. Even when he's trying to play dirty. Yep. Okay. Before we go, we have to do a little rapid fire. All right. From this season. Will there be a season four reunion, you think? Oh my gosh. I actually have no idea. I don't know because we're on a pause now. It probably would have filmed soon. Maybe do people want it? I guess sound off. Yes. Who in mom talk are you closest with right now? Macy, Mikaela, they're my best friends. I love them. When was the last time you talked to Demi? I haven't talked to Demi since the season three reunion. You guys saw it. How do you feel about your relationship? Your relationship. So mean to me. It's been interesting. I wish her the best. I had a lot of issues with her. I don't think it was a friendship that was meant to last, but I do wish her happiness. And if I have to see her again, I could be cordial, but it's just not meant to be. Yeah. That makes sense. Has anyone heard from Ben since last season? Stay tuned. Yeah. Okay. Who is currently in the group chat? Has anyone left? Oh gosh, no. So, okay. Sorry, Taylor, but we do have a group chat with Taylor and then we have one without her because of all this, but not talking badly, but how we were coordinating how to handle the film pause. Of course. But no, everyone's in it. What was your opinion on Harry Jowsy coming to meet up with mom talk while everyone was in LA? Okay. Well, first of all, me and Jordan were leading as he came in. So I was like, and Jordan hates Harry Jowsy because of me cheating. So I was like, Jordan, don't say anything. So I was like kind of nervous, but so glad we were leaving. Harry doesn't know this, by the way, and we talk a lot. So I'm sorry, Harry. Hey, Harry. But no, I watched that scene back and I was like, this is the best TV I've ever seen. The fact that he's like, I'm going to cry right now. You're so overwhelmed. It was iconic. I loved it. It's amazing. How do you feel about how the Unwell event and Macy's book event drama played out? I felt so bad because I was so excited to do Unwell and we ended up plot twist doing it. So it worked out for the best. And Macy, Mckila came too. So it was great. But no, I had no idea because we had talked about me hosting her book event and then Unwell came up and she had texted me being like, hey, I just need to know which one you're doing. No big deal. So I didn't think it mattered. But then when I heard how sad she was, I was like, Macy, Mckila, been there for me through so much. I think you see me say that. And I was like, Macy, I would never want you to think anything was more important than you. And it was an immediate like, I'll do this. What terms are Jen and Whitney currently on? I don't think they're talking at the moment, but I do think that when a season comes out, you all self reflect a little bit. And I think that's happening. And I think they'll probably be able to get back to a good place. What was your reaction when Jen sent her husband in place to speak to Whitney? It's just never a good move for the man to be the one to yell at another woman. Like, even if Whitney was in the wrong, which I don't necessarily think she was, like him going at her just, ooh. Yeah. Okay. What do you think is the future of Dad Talk? I think it'll be done. I don't think it can continue. I think the world has spoken and they're done. Okay. Last question. Okay. Is there anything else that you want to set the record straight on, clear the air on, whether it's with Jordan, whether it's with other people from the cast, rumors, whatever it be? I mean, not specifically anything other than just like, remember that we are real people with real lives and you see this much of our life. It's cut down, it's edited. We film a scene for four hours and you see four minutes, you know? So just remembering that there's always more to the story and give people grace because we're all going through it right now and just any woman that's been in a situation like mine, like you're worthy and you're enough and you can do it. Okay. I need you to know, go find out about the orgies. No, literally. I'm going to hear about it once this drops. I need to call you after. Yes. I'll tell you. You need to like plug us back in and be like, so what's the update on the orgies? Do I need to hire like a PI? No, literally. Yeah. I'll hire for you. I'll let you know. I need to. He's going to deny it. I already know that. But if it's orgies, there's many people there. Yeah. And orgy parties. Yeah. Sounds like it. I'll get your new number. Yeah. We'll figure it out. Yeah. We'll figure it out. Jesse, thank you so much for coming on Call Our Daddy. I think like hearing your story again, I think like your story was such a testament to, yes, there is not, we can't see everything on reality TV. There's so many different storylines. It can't all fit into certain episodes. And so also there's things that aren't given information. Right. We didn't have the information about Jordan. We didn't know about these escorts. We didn't know about the parties to get that information now. I think give so much more clarity, even not saying that what you did was correct with your affair. But it gives such more backstory to what was going on in your home that none of us were privy to. So I really wish you the best. Thank you. Wish the whole cast the best. Again, I said this at the beginning, but like this is heavy shit and some heavier than others and traumatizing. But I think I've met you. I've met Taylor. Like I've met Whitney. I've met Connor. These are, I've had such great interactions with you guys. And I really hope that everyone can figure this out because I know people love the show, but also like the show doesn't matter if everyone's mental health isn't okay and safety. So I think we're all just like hoping for the best for all of you. And thank you so much for your time and thinking of your kids and you during this time. Thank you. Thank you for having me and letting me finally be free and speak my truth. Girl, we did it. We did it.