How to Build Real Wealth From Nothing (The System a $600M Manager Actually Uses)

Most founders are obsessed with making money. Very few know how to keep it, and almost nobody knows how to grow it into something that outlasts them. Today's guest went from watching his mother raise him on $9 an hour to managing nearly $600 million in assets. His name is Wes Rollins, and what he's going to share with you today is not a get rich quick story. It is a blueprint for understanding the three phases every dollar has to pass through before it becomes real wealth. Let's unlock it. ["Metro"] Today we got Wes Rollins with us. Wes, I just want to say welcome to the show. I'm excited to get into this. I know for the viewers that are listening, we're talking about wealth management today and the portfolio you created from being, I think it was from the bottom to the top. I'm excited to get into your story and actually even get into maybe where the markets are today and what people can do. So, Wes, welcome. Hey, thank you, brother. It's an honor to be here, man. Yeah, I'm down to go down whatever roads you want. So I'm ready for the rock and roll ride, buddy. I love it. So we're all everyone listening. We're all on the same page. Why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and a little bit how you got to where you are today? I think you said you're doing almost over $600 million under management. Like that's no joke there. So where do you go from to even getting to that point? Yeah, so I think how I normally kick these things off is I won the Ovarian lottery, like Warren Buffett says. So my mother is the best human on the planet. My dad left when I was four years old and left my mother to raise me on $9 an hour. And somehow she was able to pull it off. I still literally to this day have no idea how she was able to pull that off. Gave me all the gifts from a social perspective that I could have ever asked for. When I was 11, we got another eviction notice from our apartment, so it prompted me to go work. And as the universe gifted me a blessing, I worked at a local country club, like on the rich side of town. Because every other business would not hire me because I was too young. I knocked on literally every single business store that I could. The golf club was the only one that would take me on. And the number one rule of being a caddy was do not speak unless spoken to. So again, another blessing. So I just got to sit there and absorb all of these conversations. That's where it got planted into my head of getting to Wall Street, investing and so on. So I kept up that pattern. I worked literally all throughout grade school, high school and college and eventually got to Wall Street and then moved on and helped build a firm. And now I own a firm, one of three partners, and we currently manage about almost $600 million. The markets have been down the last couple of weeks, so it fluctuates. But yeah, that's roughly the story. So as you were talking and you were mentioning, basically how hard working your mom was, seven, six, $7 an hour. I think back to my mom doing the same thing, but what really hit me was I could hear it in your conviction, in your voice, you're like, how did she do it? And right away I was thinking about my mom and I was thinking, how did they do it? So this isn't part of the show, but just for all the moms out there, I just want to say we salute you. Thank you for giving us the power and the vision and doing the hard work so we can live the lives we live. To all the great mothers out there, amen. Back to Wes over here. So Wes, I know you have a firm where you, we talked about $600 million under management. Where did that start? Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, so I've only done finance professionally for my professional career, so since the age of 18. And the long and short of it is I was able to get to the stock exchange, get to Wall Street, et cetera, et cetera. And then I had another great blessing, a mentor reach out to me and said, hey, if you come out here to California and help me build my book of business, I'll allow you to build your clientele as well. And that was all I needed because on Wall Street, I was doing institutional finance and I loved it, but I wasn't 100% infatuated with it. And the reason I got into finance was because of my story. Like how can I actually impact families? So the corny phrase, I know it sounds like this, but it's what I actually believe is, I want to change my family tree and help others do the same. When you do that at the institutional level, you're just several standard deviations away from that sort of nucleus. So the writing was on the wall, I was like, hey, I got this blessing from the universe again, let's take it and run with it. And it was an amazing journey. So that gentleman, his name was Dave, he was absolutely phenomenal. And I was able to piece together from the gifts that were given to me on Wall Street and say, hey, well, let's just apply this over here. And he was bringing in about $1.25 million of new money per year, which was good. It wasn't, it's not outstanding, but he has been doing it for a long time. And he just needed a fresh pair of eyes. So anyway, it was a really good deal for me. And then to put it in perspective, start building our both of our books of business and then create another company and then create another company after that. So now there's Attic and Wealth Partners that's almost a holding company for several other companies. And they all roll up into about $600 million. To put it in perspective, same thing I learned in caddying, if you just learn and absorb things and then just apply the things that you learn as easy and simple as it sounds, it's literally that simple. So last year we brought in, I think it was like close to $80 million. So you go from like $1 million to $80 million of new money. And don't get me wrong, I am only responsible maybe for like 2% of any of the success that I have. And I mean that for all of us. If you think about where we were born, the fact that we are our whatever race and gender and height and all of these things that contribute to all of our success, all we have to do is just do the last 2%. I mean, that's sincerely, none of my success is owed to me at all. I'm the minority impact maker on my success, but I do think that's an important message for everybody here. I also do think it's an obligation to fully maximize that 2%. That I love, that last comment, it is an obligation, it's your duty. How many percent? I don't know what is like one in a billion chance or something like that, right? Of being even born. And then you have a duty, no matter what background you come from, you have a duty to represent that 2% with all the forces of life. Man, I really, really, really like that because it just changes the perspective of how you show up every day. And it makes it, and you kind of take it off you and you make it to the bigger force. Like this isn't even about you. This is my duty to why I'm here. So I really do like that. And it seems like this was a driven factor for you from the get-go. And I can tell in your voice when you're talking about not just being, you know, honoring that 2%, but leaving the big corporate world, right? And trying to help be closer to helping more families, never have to go deal with what your mom did or what my mom had to go through. What was it that there's always something that changes? There's like the thing that goes, you just said from like a one billion, one million to 80 million in a year. Like what was going on? Or what was that change that happened where all of a sudden you just caught fire and everything just started working. Everything started working smoother and easier. So it was actually a psychological change because there was a time where it was just really tough. So just so everybody has texture, this is not like a sob story. But so when I moved out to California, I put everything I had back into the business, like everything I slept on. I was lucky enough, I actually lived with Dave for a little while. But then after that, I felt like a burden. So I was like, I don't want to do this. Like, you know, I need to, you know, I need to get out of my own. So I slept on the floor. I rented a room that was maybe like eight by eight. And I had four other housemates in there. And I rented the smallest room. So it was the smallest amount of rent. And I literally slept on the floor for I think it was like three or four years. And I just wanted it to go down in history of, I'm either going to fail knowing that I went all chips on the table or I'm going to be successful. I did not want a failure. And it's like, oh, but I just casually did it. So literally dude, I bought chicken on sale, chicken breast on sale every month at this place called Sprouts in Southern California. When it would go on sale, it was on sale for, I forget what it was, like a dollar, 20 a pound. So I'd buy 180 pounds of chicken per month. So that way I saved money on my protein and I would buy a 50 pound bag of rice and a 25 pound of black beans that you can get for like, 50 pounds of rice, you can get, I forget what it was at the time, like 15 bucks maybe. And your beans, it was like the same ratio. That fed me my calories for minimum an entire month, minimum. So my cost per meal was, I forget what it was at the time, like 24 cents per meal. So I just wanted zero excuses. My car was a piece of shit car. Sorry, I don't know if you're allowed cursing on here, but didn't have air conditioning. And I would have to drive three days a week, two hour, about an hour and a half to two hours each way in Southern California. So be sweating my face off to go and consult for a company out there on their finances, et cetera. Anyway, I'm not saying that as, oh, Wes is trying to brag or look for any sympathy. No, it's like whoever is on the journey of success, that at least in my opinion, is oftentimes what is required. And however long you're thinking it's gonna take, at least for me, it took 10 times longer. So how long are you willing to suffer for what you want? I love, that's gonna be a quote right there. How long are you willing to suffer for what you truly want? It goes to the quote, I'll never forget this when I first started in commission sales, like first career job, anything out of school in real life. At that time, my mentor said to me, K-Von, what are you willing to do in the next three to five years that most people won't in order to live a life that most people will never have? And he would just say that to me every single day. And what you just said is the testament of that. And people just always think there's some such thing as overnight success. No such thing. You just haven't seen all the beats out, like the tear downs and the losses and the long nights and even getting a little bit of success than losing it. Little success, then losing, little success. And I love it. It's tenacity and it's whoever stays the longest in the game is gonna win, that's for sure. No doubt about it, duration, man. And it's interesting because it seems like, and I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs and it seems like a lot of business owners, a lot of entrepreneurs, they have the same story. Like they have this thing, which I call in my assessment that we do for our company, it's called the athlete DNA. And it's this grit, it's this competitive drive, it's a chip on the shoulder. And the most important one is they hate to lose more than they love to win. No doubt about it. I'm 100% in that category. Yeah, I could tell. I could tell, you kind of said it and you went all in. So here's something, it's not the podcast, but I think it's really important is why are people so afraid to go all in? I see it every day. Like they have this idea, they have these dreams, they have these aspirations, they wanna live more. But they have every excuse in the world except the all in button. They're afraid to just burn it all down to build what they actually truly want. Yeah, my hypothesis would be that it's actually the inverse to me. Why on earth would we go all in when we have immediate comfort? Like it's a very rare breed who says, yeah, I could have this comfortable lifestyle, but I could risk it all and maybe not have my comfortable lifestyle, nor the big grandiose vision. So I see it as like, yeah, we gotta be kind of crazy, which is the prerequisite, in my opinion, the prerequisite for big things happening is having an enormous vision to make it so appealing that it's a no-brainer. I'm gonna get through all of the crap because I know it's worth it. So for me, it was that commitment to change my family tree. Every dude, literally every single obstacle I encounter as corny as it sounds, I ask myself, is this going to get me closer to changing my family tree for the better? Yes or no? There is no binary, I'm sorry, there's no spectrum here. It is a yes or no, it's a binary question. If the answer is yes, I do it 100% of the time. I love, man, you're talking my language, truly. Everything you're saying, I'm absorbing because what a great question to ask yourself, is this helping me change my family tree yes or no? And what a way to anchor also into the vision because you know what you don't want. See, this is a problem that I see a lot of business owners, they don't even know what they don't want. You don't need to know necessarily what you do want, but you gotta be so damn clear on what you don't want. And that's what I always kind of, what driven me was I'm not sure where I'm gonna go. I don't know what the next thing is. I don't see, I don't have vision like that sometimes, but the one thing that I do know is I don't want X. And in your case, I don't want to repeat that family tree. I don't wanna repeat the legacy of what was, I'm starting my new legacy. So I, and again, everyone has to have an anchor and it seems like that's your anchor. Yeah, there was a client who just told me about a Japanese word or phrase, and I totally forget what it was, basically it's a concept of breaking the cycle. Yeah. And when to use your phrasing, when you have an anchor that is at a level 10 importance to you, then it gets pretty rational from there. So when I feel a negative emotion about charting the business forward, I simply look at it and say, okay, well, what did you think changing your family tree would be like? Right, so when you zoom out, it's like, yeah, of course. I mean, dude, our ancestors would probably have to travel, across 3000 miles of mixed terrain to help put their families in a better position. So then when I think that's like, well, what I'm doing is not that hard. Is it uncomfortable? Sure, but it beats trying to traverse the whole United States to get to California, six generations ago. Yeah, perspective, perspective, perspective. I think it's so easy, I feel like when you're winning and when you kind of get through it, it's easy. And I just feel people listening to be like, oh yeah, but you don't get my story. Oh yeah, but the whole yeah, but, and I know it's easy for guys like you and I to talk about that and talk about how easy, or how different life is when you do the trucking through all the terrain and you finally get to the destination and things start working. But don't fool for a second that you never get there without the pain. Like you will not, like if you expect it to be easy, you'll never get to greatness. And I don't like saying this, but I'll say it, right? One another quote, I just, I love someone said this to me, I'm like, so true. Poor people live an easy life and that's why their life is hard. Wealthy people live a hard life and that's why their life is easy. Yep, no doubt about it. So let's talk about the markets a little bit here because this is your expertise and I know you can't talk too much about it because you're legally buying to information and whatnot, but I just, there's so much happening in the world right now. There's so much going on with the markets right now. Any advice, and not advice, but any thoughts of what people can be thinking about at least in the next three, six, even a couple of years, if they're sitting there worried about the turmoil, worried about the wars, I mean, it's a scary time. If you really look at what's going on in the world, it's a pretty scary time. I'm not trying to do fear mongering or anything, but like, you know, rational, like if you look at it even just logically, it's a pretty scary time right now. Yeah, so I think a couple of frameworks to sort of get out of the way. Number one, what I like to think I teach is financial leadership. So you have to decide on, do you want to be a financial leader for you or your family? If the answer is no, then you're probably just gambling. You know, you're probably gonna be blown according to whatever wins of the time or whatever your friend tells you to invest in or whatever. But as you and I both know, well, if you step into the leadership role where you have to make decisions for other human beings, well, now that raises the game to an exponential level. Okay, now I gotta treat this stuff seriously and I have to have conviction about my next moves. This is entirely different. This is so different than the buddy who shows up on poker and I said, oh yeah, I invested in XYZ stock and it went up by 80%. It's like, yeah, you put $25 in the stock. Congratulations and went up by 80%. You know the reason you need to put all of your bank account into that stock is because you did not have conviction on it. But you like telling the story of the percentage of growth because it's cool to tell stories among buddies and that's fun. But when you're leading a family or leading a business, it's like, I can't play around with my capital. I've gotta put in things that I have conviction on. Okay. That's the decision tree part number one. Are you going to be a financial leader or are you just gonna be a casual kind of player when you want to be? So I just wanna speak to the financial leaders. Okay, now for the financial leaders, let's decision tree it out even from there. Are you gonna be a primarily an owner, a lender, a spender or a saver? Well, we're still high level here. Primarily, that word is important. Primarily are gonna be an owner, a lender, a spender or a saver. You are going to be all four of those most likely. But what is your tip of the spear? What are you primarily? Now, obviously a spender is not going to build their wealth. If they're primarily a spender, you're not gonna build much wealth. If you're a saver, to be honest with you, you're not gonna build much wealth. Why? Because money just represents purchasing power and money gets diluted over time via inflation. So unless you're a trust fund baby and you're a heard a bunch of capital and you can sustain the decay over time and you're still wealthy, that's probably not any of us on this call and any of us listening, right? So now we have two more left. Okay, are you gonna be primarily an owner or a lender? A lender can feel okay because it's kind of short-term stable. I'm gonna lend my money to the bank, right? I'm gonna get a CD. I'm gonna buy some bonds, et cetera. That's okay, but if you're primarily doing that, what could be the problem of that? Well, number one, if your personal inflation's at 6%, I don't care about CPI, I care about your personal inflation because it's your personal money. If your personal inflation's at 6% and you're lending your money via bonds at 3, 4, 5%, you're losing purchasing power. This is quite obvious. Now, you still, in my opinion, should have that or everybody should do whatever their advisor says, for me, I still wanna have some of that. For short-term stability in case I need it, in case the market takes a dive, et cetera, et cetera. But I want to be primarily an owner. If you look at any of the people that we admire who've built their wealth, not one single time have I said, oh, I wanna be like that guy or girl because they were just really good at lending their money. No, it's always these people have built and or owned the things that are generated in their money. I love it. I mean, this is great stuff, owner, lender, spender, saver. Let's break this down a little bit. So when you're talking about owner, you're talking about owner of business, owner of their capital, an owner I would think is the guy who's being the financial leader first. A nominal question. So now if we look at the owner category, we can now break that into several subcategories. Owner, okay, well, there's two types of assets still. There's speculative assets and then there's something called productive assets. And I didn't make these up. Warren Buffett talks about these a lot and other value investors talk about them a lot. Speculative assets on the one side is where you buy low and sell high, right? At least that's the goal. The only way in which I can make money is if I sell something for a higher price in which I bought it. Now, this sounds amazing, but what's the problem? It's incredibly hard to do. To put it in perspective, I know personally, and I can't name the certain types of assets that are in vogue right now, but you could probably imagine the ones that are in vogue, right? All about, hey, my cousin bought this coin at X, Y, and Z dollars and now it's dramatically above that. Here I can tell you, I do not know anybody who's done that and built substantial wealth. You may know, but I don't know of them. And I've been working in finance for 20 years. You would have think that I would have come across at least two of them. I know zero of them. Now, I do know some people who've made some money, but that important part is like some money, because I also think people dramatically underestimate how much money it actually takes to reach financial escape velocity. Like, oh, wow, okay. Let's love it, love it, love it. Financial escape velocity, massive. I would assume anybody listening to this podcast is trying to achieve that. You're not in business if you're not trying to achieve that. What is financial escape velocity? I mean, when I think about it, what number is that today? And then what's that number in 100 years from now? Because those are two different numbers with inflation. So let's talk about that. So quick back to the napkin. So back to the napkin math. It's gonna be relatively similar for most people and it's gonna be slightly different for most people. So financial escape velocity, as I define it, is at what point will my portfolio assets generate me enough income, net, in perpetuity for me to survive, and ideally maintain or increase my lifestyle as we go along. That number plus having what I call moat money. So between two and five years of expenses in short and medium term assets, so that way if my long term assets dip temporarily, I have a whole war chest of short, medium term assets that I could live off of in the meantime. Yeah, again, let's break that down because I got that, but just in case someone's not understanding that is, basically, I'm gonna just tell me if this is correct or not. You're gonna take them, you're gonna look at your lifestyle and you're gonna ask the question, how much more do I want? How much more do I need? And you're gonna go, what amount of money that's called purchasing power? Do I need to be able to sustain that lifestyle? Minimum, I love what you said for three to five, but I would think almost, ideally for the rest of your life, depending where you are in your life cycle. And that asset is continuously producing income to support your lifestyle, and ideally building as well because you do not wanna start hitting that principle because that's where people start losing their shirt. Exactly, so if we look at where, let's pretend I was retired. Now, full transparency, I don't wanna ever retire. That's just not my DNA. Well, let's say if I were to be, my goal of being mathematically able to retire would be that my long-term assets would be able to produce for me enough net income and still grow while simultaneously paying for my expenses. Now, that's the first prerequisite. However, I like to add a buffer to that, which is okay, but what if my long-term assets are down? What if we have a 2008 or a COVID or et cetera? Okay, I don't really wanna be removing my long-term assets during those volatile times. In fact, I'd rather let my dividends and my rental income and my business distributions reinvest when prices drop so I can build up more density and take advantage of pricing opportunities. But where am I gonna live off of that point? Okay, well, I'll go over to my two to five years of capital that are not in long-term assets. Those are in short and medium-term assets. Super short-term stable from a volatility perspective, but they don't grow very much over the long-term. So I only have, I wanna get scalpel level precision with that bucket of money. Because if I overindex on it, well, now I'm giving up longer-term growth and inflation's a real killer of money. Like to the degree that most people, they kind of understand the concept, but they don't really grasp the magnitude of how much inflation can just murder your money over time. Especially if it's not growing, oh my God, like especially if you don't have it growing. So it's interesting because you just said that the spender is definitely not gonna get there. The saver is not necessarily gonna get there. And I, because I always lived my life with this, you know, oh, if you save a penny, blah, blah, blah, you know, and it's like, no, a penny saved is literally a penny at the end of the day. You're just saving it. You cannot grow saving pennies. Like the way you grow, you gotta go, how I live my life, you gotta go all the way. And if you wanna go big and you don't have generational wealth, you gotta go and you're not gonna save your, I don't care anymore, you're not gonna save yourself into wealths, like make a couple on a grand a year with inflation. Like you gotta go in and go hard and then have that money start working for you and not be afraid. And that's the, I think that's the owner, the owner concept is like, even understanding as a financial leader and owner, like you might take some hints and you might make some wrong moves. But again, are you gonna stay in the game long enough to get back up and keep moving? Yeah, and this is where that distinction between speculative assets and productive assets is super important. So if we backtrack a little bit and say, okay, speculative assets, well, if the only way in which I can make money is if the price gets higher and I sell it at the right time, because the price could always drop after it reaches a peak, well, that's a really hard game, like really hard game. But if I go on the other side and I have more of a productive asset philosophy, which a productive asset high level is, okay, does the asset itself produce cash and ideally cash flow to the investor? And then to what degree does it do it? So I'd rather do that. I'd rather buy assets where there'd be private business, public companies or real estate that produce income for me because at the core, there's a value exchange. The way you make money in an economy is you produce value at a fair margin. The way you multiply that money is, in my opinion, just by investing in value creation. So make money by creating value, grow the money by investing in value creation. The nucleus of both of those is fair money exchange for value created. Now, in a productive asset, you put them all on a buffet and you say, okay, well, here's all of the, here are all of the productive assets that I could invest in right now. Which one do I think is the best? As simple as this sounds, most people just don't do that. They just don't look at all of the universe of investments that they could invest in and then select what they think is the best. When Warren Buffett was interviewed one time, it was phenomenal. He said, hey, Warren, how'd you get so good at investing? He said, well, I would study Moody's manuals and read other books, et cetera. And the interviewer was like, well, Moody's manuals, I mean, those are thousands of pages back in the day. And they said, well, how did you simplify it and where did you start? He said, well, I started from the letter A. And then I read it all. And it's like, oh, that's what due diligence looks like. But most people just don't do it. They just don't. If we're all being honest with ourselves, most of us do not do proper due diligence. Well, and there's companies out there that do the due diligence that you can lean on and trust on. Totally, wow. Yeah. Man, I think there's so much. Like I'm just sitting here going, wow. If anyone listened to that and you're wondering what you got, as even business owners that are listening to this, you got to make that decision. Are you going to be that financial leader and decide if you want to be the owner, the lender, the spender, the saver? For those who are spenders, let's say, because we live in this world of spending, right? Is there, what would you tell the spender to, or what's something the spender can think about that maybe stops them from basically making another spending move that's going to get them away from their wealth, well, that wealth, the escape velocity, let's call that, right? And to keep them more focused on that. And what I mean specifically, that is just is I used to myself, I don't do this anymore because it got me in trouble. I used to, the wrong advice, right? I don't have an income problem. I said, I don't have an expense problem. I have an income problem. I just got to make more income. Well, you know what happens? You keep spending more and you keep spending more and you keep telling yourself, you only have an income problem. You just keep spending more. That didn't work for me. Obviously I've had to change that way of being, but for those people that just don't understand that concept, like what do you say? So the first framework that I would offer up is putting yourself on a rubric. We have a scorecard that we give to clients and we say, okay, let's find out where the problem in your wealth building protocol is. We break it down really simply. Wealth building is not investing. Investing is a component of wealth building. So if we zoom out, it's okay. Well, how does one actually build wealth? Number one, make money. Number two, save money. Number three, grow money. That's how you build wealth. Those are the three macro pieces you need to do. And then each one of those breaks down certain subcategories. So if we look at making money, most of the time that's where the problem is. From what I've seen, boots on the ground, most of the time it's like, oh no, you don't have an investment problem. You have an earnings problem and that's okay. Now, if we've checked that box to your point, the next problem we have is very likely saving. Very likely. Okay, well, I'd much rather have somebody who makes a million dollars a year with a saving problem, meaning he just spends too much, than the opposite or the inverse. The guy who makes 10 grand a year and saves 99% of it, but he only makes 10 grand a year. It is way harder, like way harder to make a lot of money than it is to solve for a spending issue. Yeah, okay. Well, I love that. That's good to know. And I hear you, because we just talked about the beginning. Like you can't invest 10 grand and expected to become something. But a guy that's making a million, two million a year and spending half of that, right? There's money there to be saved. There's money there still being enjoyed. There's money to be there saved and there's money to be there to invest and grow. It goes, when you said that, it goes to a comment I used to say was like very little people know how to make it. Almost even very little know how to keep it. And then almost nobody knows how to, like, the 1.001% knows how to invest it. And there's those three things. And then even if they know how to invest it, can they stick to the plan for three decades? Yeah. Most people can't do it, it's very hard. But for the people who do, man, the rewards are amazing. Well, that's what you, I'm just gonna say it. That's what happens when you get generational wealth. Like I was talking to someone the other day and they were like, and it was like a mentor of mine. And the way he said it, I was like, oh my God, they're like, Kevin, you don't realize, you're not the one, you're unfortunately not going to be the one to live the life like the one you want right now. He's like, but your kids, if you do it smart, are going to live the life that you've been trying to live. And I got like, he was kind of talking about that idea of that generational wealth. It takes a little time to create and build. And as long as your kids don't fucking up, it can grow, right? What do they say? Is it the second generation or third generation fucks it all up or something? First generation makes second builds it. And then the third just messes it all up. Yeah, it's something like that. Like the first generation builds it, the next generation enjoys it, the third person, the third generation destroys it. Something like that. I've seen it. I've seen it a couple of times, interesting or not. Like I've hung out with, and I'm talking hundreds and $200 million generational wealth types of kids. And they're on the third round. And sure enough, like, and I see the fighting that goes on, the protection that goes on, the bankers have been there for 30 years trying to help grow it and kids wanna spend it. Becomes an absolute nightmare. What a nightmare. And also on the flip side, what an honor it is for us to grow up at the bottom. Because I can tell you, that's been one of the biggest blessings in my life. If I didn't have that pain to contrast my actions with, I wouldn't take the actions. If you're born into wealth, I feel bad for those people, literally. Because it is so hard to take action when you are like, oh, well, life is great. Why would I, you're subconscious, right? Why would I take any action if I literally don't have to? Having to psychologically manufacture reasons for action is really difficult. Some people can do it, but I'm not one of those people. So I need it that visceral, hey, if I don't go to work at the age of 11, we're not gonna be able to get food. Right? So it's so binary, the decision is easy. Yeah, I agree, I totally agree. I see it all the time. As much as there's two pains, there's pain everywhere. There's pain on each side of the coin. And it's like, what's the pain that's gonna grow you, drive you, move you? And what's the pain that's gonna hold you down, pin you down, paralyze you? And it might feel good, but there's pain that happens deep within. Man, I just wanna say this is a great conversation. As we come to a close here, I can tell people, I feel it, people are like, how do I get? Like you obviously, you know what you're talking about. You're an expert in your craft here. How can people get ahold of you? Yeah, I mean, so I'm on, we just started, but I'm on YouTube now, West Rollins, and then same thing with Instagram. And then my company's website, my contact information is on there. It's such an honor, man, to talk to you. I wanted to spend a lot of time in private for the last 15 years plus of just building. So that way, I finally felt like I had something to say and sharing my battle stories and showing the scars, hopefully we'll be able to get some people to avoid those problems. And then also maybe to even inspire people. So it's just such an honor, because this is literally my first sort of round of getting out there on the internet. So I appreciate the support, brother. I'm happy to have you, man. From what you're saying, I'll tell you, people need to hear you. There's a young generation that I can tell you. Earlier, I should say early investors that need to hear everything you're saying and reach out. Because it's not by fluke that you go from zero to $600 million under management. And for those that are not watching and listening, we're talking to a very young man over here. This is not gonna mention his name, it's his age or anything, but I can tell you that this is a young guy who has a lot of hustle in him. So make sure if you're even thinking about wealth management, go to the show notes, go look at at Wes, reach out to him. I'm sure you'd love to have a conversation. Thank you, brother. It was an honor and a pleasure, buddy. Appreciate it.