One Question for Each NBA Cup Team. Plus, Giannis Thoughts and All-Stars Picks With Tim Legler.

Coming up on the Zach Glow Show, it's Monday. A lot of stuff happened over the weekend in the NBA. More honest noise. LeBron's double digit streak is over. The NBA Cup is coming up this week as a lot of other teams get some rest time. Tim Legler from ESPN, you know him, you love him, you love his iPad breakdowns. He is here to help me preview all four NBA Emirates Cup quarterfinals games, one by one, big questions facing each team. We're going to talk, Janice. Yep. We're going to talk Janice. We're going to talk some other weekend developments. Jonathan Kaminga got benched. The bull stink. Some other stuff happened over the weekend. He's going to pick his all star teams. I already picked my preliminary all star teams. I flip flopped one player already. We're going to see where we came out there and just talk all things NBA. Lots of stuff going on. It's going to be a good show. Tim Legler is the best in the business. Enjoy it coming up now. Welcome to the Zach Lo Show. It's Monday morning. Tim Legler from ESPN is here, the best in the business. He's helping us out at the ringer slash Spotify this year. Legs, what's going on? I'm great, man. I'm great. It's that time of year, the holiday time of year for the NBA. It's an interesting time for me, Zach, because we have a long chunk without me calling games. This is great. I get to make sure I'm staying dialed in by getting my work done with you. I'm really looking forward to this. A lot of stuff happened over the weekend. We're going to get to as much of it as we can. We had LeBron James, double digit scoring streak ended in the most fitting possible way. Our guy, Jonathan Kaminga, got benched, looking like it's over in Golden State. The La Crosse brothers, the Lax Bros are taken over the NBA, the Spencer brothers in Golden State and Memphis. The Bulls stink and there's more Yanis stuff, but we're going to start. It's NBA cup week, the quarterfinals are this week. We're going to look at every game and I decided the best way to do it was pick a big question or a big issue or a big statement, one for each team, go game by game. We're going to start with Orlando, Toronto. You got your pick of teams in all the games. You picked Toronto. We have to unfortunately lead with Orlando. We don't know the MRI results for Franz Wagner. We will probably know, I'm guessing at the end of today, it looked bad. And if it is bad, if it's bad, bad, like if he's out for the season, I think a team that could have made the finals potentially given how wide open the East is can no longer make the finals. That said, well documented legs. Orlando thrived when Ben Carroll was out, trended a little smaller, a lot of three guard lineups with Franz at the four, whipped the ball around more touches, all that stuff. Ben Carroll came back for like a game and a quarter with Wagner and looked kind of like he had watched what had happened and was almost overly deferential at times. Franz ran all the offense and crunch time in their Friday game against Miami. Palo seemed to be paying more attention to like spacing, where to stand, when to dart in to the paint, when to set screens and all that. And you just got this vision of like, all right, maybe it'll all come together and just this franchise the last two years, so snake bitten with these two guys getting hurt, sometimes at the same time, sometimes at different times. I guess my question would be, look, Franz, it will be a miracle if he doesn't miss a significant amount of time. And that's how it looked. Let's assume he misses a significant amount of time for the sake of discussion. What are we going to learn from this? Can they duplicate the way they played when Ben Carroll was out with Ben Carroll in and Wagner out? Are we, are we going to get to the end of this and say, maybe they're actually better off with one and not both? Or is this going to look different because Ben Carroll is a different player than Franz Wagner, a guy who tends to hold it a little bit longer, take more long twos? Like, how is this going to work, legs? Yeah, that's, listen, I think what we're going to find out, what we're going to have to find out is, is Paolo Ben Carroll, a franchise carrying winning player. Because, you know, the guy's got immense talent, really difficult matchup because of his combination of power and shooting ability and scoring, but he's definitely a different type of player than Franz Wagner. Franz Wagner is a guy that's like a lot more decisive with the ball. He's a better playmaker. He's got better vision. Ben Carroll, better raw score, but Wagner's pretty damn good there as well. So they hum along when, when Ben Carroll was out, they had an interesting year because last year's act, I had as much admiration for that team of the teams I saw and called games last year as any team in the league besides probably Oklahoma City, because of how hard this team played. I'm like, that guy, Jamal Mosley, is connected to this team because they will run through a wall to defend for him. They were top five in defense last year. They had both of those guys miss long periods of time with oblique injuries. It was really weird, like back to back oblique injuries. So they went a long time without playing together. They missed sucks for the last two, three months of the season. They're starting point guard and one of the best all ball defenders. And yet here they were at the end of the year, like still there, head above water, like in the mix in the East. So I had a lot of high expectations for them. Again, with what happened with Boston, Indiana, you just alluded to it, a wide open East. I'm looking at Detroit, Orlando, Nick's calves coming into the season. Like those are the four teams I wanted to see. And Orlando is really slow out of the gate. Desmond Bain was like, not really in the flow. He wasn't having the impact I thought he would. And they were like, they weren't as good defensively. And you're kind of wondering like, what am I looking at? Now I didn't, I didn't, some people, they kind of bailed on the Orlando Magic. Oh, and because Pancair is not what I thought he was, and they're not as good as I thought. I wasn't ready to do that. You got to get Bain time. You've got to be fully healthy. Their defense will come around. All those things started happening. They went 10 out of 14. They're climbing the rungs in the ladder in the East. And here they come, and they're like, okay, this is going to be a formidable team. And now this. So now you go back to one star carrying your offense. The defense looks like it's righted itself. Now, Bankero's got something he didn't have last year when Wagner was out. Desmond Bain, who has been hitting his stride. So I think we're going to learn an awful lot about Paolo Bankero for however long Wagner's out. And we haven't gotten word yet. I mean, do you think it's possible based on what you saw? Like, now are we going to get this, you know, is it an ACL? Are we going to get Wagner's after the year? I'm going to wait for the MRI results. You just, you know, sometimes you take these hard falls, and it turns out there's no ligament damage. It's a strain or a swoon. Who knows? I'm like, obviously, we all have our fingers crossed because I think Franz Wagner was a lock all-star playing the best ball of his career all around. Even the three, which was such an issue last year with the hitch and everything, he's up to 36%. He's taken the ones he should take. He looked absolutely fantastic. Bankero, the magic had been bad the last two seasons. When he's on the court and Franz is off the court. To your point about Bain, I'm not wiping all those numbers away because it's a pretty substantial sample size. I'm pushing them to the side because so few of them involved Bain, healthy Suggs, and now Anthony Black, who's leveled up. And if you look at those, but like just the stat to keep an eye on those three guards together, Bain, Suggs, and Black have only played 53 minutes the entire season together. They are plus 54 in 53 minutes. That's like outrageous. The Bain Black, Tyus Jones trio is plus 26 in 102 minutes. The magic have found something with three guards plus one of the power forwards plus a center. And I'm interested to see how Bankero kind of fits into that. If he can play with a little more zip, set screens, roll to the basket. He had to play in that next game when Wagner was on the floor, where he set a screen, slipped it, slipped ahead of the switch, caught the pocket pass, drew the help, kicked to Wagner, who I think pumped faked and then tried to dunk on a closeout. That's the kind of zip he's going to have to play with. And I think you can do it. You know, then you throw it to Silva in there. I think the young guards will get a chance. Jed Howard and Jason Richardson have gotten chances here and there. I'm interested to see if he can sort of wipe away those like Wagner off the court, Bankero on the court numbers. It's just a shame because I think even if it goes great, if Wagner is out for the season, and again, it's if we don't know, we're all hoping for like a miracle. He's out for a month with a strained whatever. I do think this team had finals upside. And I, no matter how well this goes, I don't think that's the case. You know, even with these, this open with one of these two guys out for a prolonged period of time. I do have one more important question about the magic for you. Did you see the Desmond Bain dodgeball play yesterday when he chucked the ball at O.G. Ananobe? I did not. I know. Oh my God. You got to watch this play. He gets the ball under the basket. Oh no, I did. I did. No, I did. On a highlight. On a highlight. I didn't see it live. I did see that highlight last night. Yes. That's, I mean, my goodness, man. Did he have to crank it up to that extent and drill him? That, that's, listen, man, I, it may be a different era because that's a fight. I'm sorry. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like that. Like, he was perfectly on balance. He could just get a, taking the ball and turned up court. I've never seen anything like that. No, I've never seen anybody throw a ball with that level of velocity, with that level of intent at somebody in that exact type of situation. There's no, no need for that whatsoever. Like I said, that's typically the kind of thing that's going to lead to a fight. You know, and O.G., he took exception to it, but he didn't get nearly as heated as I would think a lot of guys would have in that same circumstance. And Bane, Bane is a guy that he does, he does get under guy's skin that he finds himself in the mix of some of these, you know, confrontations with guys fairly often. And so that was to me, maybe one of the most blatant things that he's done. And he got away with it for all intents and purposes. He got away with it, but there's a lot of guys I don't think he would have gotten away with it. I just thought like, I was laughing when it happened. I was like, God, that was, I heard, he chucked that ball at him. Like, I wouldn't know. That was, that was a fastball. Okay. You had Toronto in this game. What was your one big issue question for the Raptors who have lost five of their last six, including two to Charlotte and yesterday to Boston, who is emerging as maybe the feel good story of the entire season, the way they're playing, the way Jalen Brown is playing, and Joe Mozula emerging as a coach of the year candidate slash favorite. But Toronto hosts this game in the NBA Cup. Nicks are going up north. What was your big question, whatever, for the Raptors? Listen, they were a great story to start the year. They certainly surpassed my expectations in terms of where I had them, my barometer on them going into the season. A lot of people in Toronto let me know that when they got off to that hot start, and that's fine. It's an 82 game season. So you kind of got to see how it plays out. Now, they're done. It's generally unwise to take your victory laps or give your concession speeches in Bill Simmons case where he was like, I guess Perk was right. This is a top six team. I was wrong. I'm taking the L. It's 82 games, man. Don't concede again. You've got to wait and you've got to get, and here's especially why, and it relates directly to the question I have about them, particularly with this group. One thing that they added this year, and it was a huge addition because I just never really loved their talent offensively. I thought they had some inconsistent guys. Scottie Barnes, as much as I love us all around game, he's not a guy that is going to really beat you with his scoring. RJ Barrett sort of up and down quickly, the same thing. These are the guys they're counting on. Well, they went out and they added, you know, a guy that flat out can just get his in the mid-range, right, in Brandon Ingram. And he comes in the season. He's healthy. He's given them a dimension to their offense that has been pretty significant, and their defense has been really solid. But here's my question. Is Brandon Ingram going to be upright all year? And is he going to be upright, you know, for even an extended period of time now? Because you look up his career, you realize he's only played more than 60 games four times. He's only played 65 once, and that was his rookie year. And so you don't wish anything on anybody, but at the same time, you've got to be realistic about it. Just his track record says, at some point, something's going to happen, and he's going to miss a significant period of time. And if that happens, you go back to this offense that I think is inefficient with guys that are inefficient a lot of nights. Brandon Ingram gave them that dimension of there's an answer, like in the last six seconds of a shot clock, because he could just put it on the deck at 6-11, stop, rise up, shoot that little lean back mid-range, and when he gets cooking, you can't really do much with that. It added something to their offense they really needed. So that's my question. Like, they're a pretty good team. I've enjoyed watching them this year. Are you counting on Brandon Ingram for 60 plus, 65 plus, 70 plus games? Just his track record says, that's not going to happen. So where does that leave Toronto ultimately? And obviously, they're not playing very well going into this Cup game. You know, all my focus on the magic in Frog's Wagner, I forgot to talk about Miami, who's actually playing the magic in that game. We will get back to that later. Toronto is currently 14th in offense, eighth in defense overall. In that stretch where they've lost five of six, they are 23rd on both ends of the floor. So they've fallen apart on both ends. A lot of it is they're not getting to the line right now in offense. The turnover equation has flipped on them. They're a team that's built to play like frenzied, forced a lot of turnovers, and on offense, take care of the ball. They haven't been doing that, and their rebounding is falling apart. Basically, everything's gone bad. Those two losses to Charlotte, by the way, those are biggies. Like they could be 17 and eight right now if they win those two games with a little bit more of a cushion. And they got games coming up against the Knicks, the Celtics, the Heat, the Nuggets, the Warriors, the Magic, like some pretty big, some pretty big games. You know, look, this is all gravy for them. They've played higher than expectations. The shooting guards have been up and down this sort of shooting guard brigade they have where it's like one guy's on, one guy's off. It's all, you know, they've been good so far. Scotty Barnes has been great. Just a little bit of a tough stretch, though, is going to come for them. All right. I had the Knicks as my team here. My big question for you is they're now back to the starting five from last year with Josh Hart in. Mitchell Robinson is now coming off the bench. Is that the right move for the New York Knicks? Yeah, I like it better. I just said it's, I think it's what you're seeing the results of that. I do like that better. I think that gives them a little bit more versatility defensively than trying to play two bigs against a lot of teams that space you out. It's just harder. Mitchell Robinson, you know, look, he's going to get his opportunities on the offensive glass, but his minutes aren't, are never really that high. He could do a decent job jumping out of switching on guards, better than Kat. But I think when you talk about having to guard teams that are spacing you out, Josh Hart's going to give you more versatility. He's also going to give you that added dimension of being able to get the throw ahead in the open quarter, take it off the defensive backboard as one of the best rebounding guys, his, his size in the league and be able to create an early push in a surge up the floor offensively that they need. So I just think the pieces fit better. And you can then pick and choose a little bit more when you want to put Mitchell Robinson on the floor and allow him to take advantage of certain matchups or lineups that teams are playing and make it a little bit easier if you want to play two bigs together. If you're guarding a team, maybe that's got two bigs and doesn't have as much three point shooting on the floor. I think it fits better. I think it makes more sense. And next to play pretty well right now, one seven out of eight. Yeah. Hart has played so well and shot the three so well, 38%, that he's kind of made it a mood point. Obviously the other guys are going to have to start and Mikhail Bridges like, look, he's not attacking the rim like a bulldozer or anything, but he's actually playing as if he knows that getting to the rim is a good thing. Like the basket is a good thing. Nick's fans got a little cold on this starting five last year. It was good, but not great in the regular season plus about three points per hundred possessions plus 76 total points in almost a thousand minutes. And then in the playoffs, it got drilled minus 31 and 300 plus minutes. And that's where the narrative sort of ended with like, I guess this just, this isn't a great fit. And I never bought that because I like all these players. I like them together. They obviously changed their team dramatically right before training camp. Then guys got injured. They only got like 48 games with everybody together. And so far this season, they're plus 39 in 47 minutes, tiny sample size. I like it better. My questions are, my follow ups would be they still need, I think to get a requisite number of Robinson cat minutes. I think they're very good with that duo on the floor and it can't become like sometimes it doesn't play at all. Sometimes it just plays two minutes. And then my big hoops question for you is if you are going all in with this and you're taking your best rim defender and making him a, let's say 18 minute a game reserve, can you defend well enough with Brunson and towns on the floor to win the Eastern conference? And this goes, like, I don't know if you saw Max Kellerman, his big debut appearance on Bill's pod said, well, the next are just never going to win the championship when their best player is six feet tall in GL and Brunson. I'd be just here, your thoughts on that and just sort of the general, how do you cobble enough of a defense with these two guys up the middle? It's tough. I mean, and this was their biggest Achilles last year. This was something that teams are going to attack. They're going to put those guys in ball screen. And I think what the change over and in the coaching change they made, I think they were, and look, they had a very good offense last year, but I think that they were really hoping to be able to shore up their offense in such an extent that it could overcome some of that so that the trade off was a winning trade off every night, where you're getting more because they were harder to guard offensively. They could be so good that you could now overcome some of the defensive issues you have, particularly when you put Brunson and Kat directly in ball screen and you just saw what teams were able to do to them last year by utilizing very simple action and daring them to figure out a way to try to defend that. And so, yeah, it's an issue. It's an issue. And it's just, it is because of who those guys are in the way that, you know, you could approach attacking them and then it's different areas of the floor that you could put those two guys in. I think right now their offense looks like it might be enough, particularly in the East this year, Zach, when you look at like who's coming out of the East, the Knicks, I've said this from the very beginning of the year, if they don't do it this year, when the hell are they going to do it? And I mean, get to the finals. When you look at the path, it's like looking through a path through the floors and a lot of these trees have been cleared out of your way. And now it's right there for the taking. Now, look, Detroit has gotten off to this incredible start, but, you know, Detroit is still a very young team. They were a first round loss a year ago. Do you make that leap in one year from losing in the first round to the NBA finals? I think that's what where teams like New York look at it and say, no, no, no, it's us this year because we're ready to do it. So I think their offense might be good enough to overcome some of the defensive issues. And I don't think there's enough in their way where you look at and go, yeah, it's going to be tough for them to get to the finals this year. I almost feel like they have to look at this as if we don't get there, it's a failed year based on what the Eastern Conference looks like right now. They may, who knows, depending on the Wagner news, maybe that's another team that's going to be kind of like dealing with something all year, depending on what news we get out of that. So it's there for the next. I think their offense is really difficult to defend. And I think that defensive issue exists, but I also don't think it's enough to look at it and say, that's going to hold them back and keep them from getting to the NBA finals this year. Yeah. And I don't even know what the right answer is, right? Because they're not going to play zone. That's not, that's not a Mike Brown thing. I think Kat is actually like, Kat in a drop coverage to me is just chum for sharks. Like he just is not, but, but I also don't like, I like it better when he switches or when he blitzes even, but in this lineup, when he does that, everything behind him is pretty small. Like Ananobius is big for a wing and can protect the rim. Hart is like for a six, four guy, offer some rip protection bridges, whatever. It gets pretty small behind him, but I like it better when he's more active on defense and they've just, sometimes they'll mix those kinds of things in and both Robinson on the floor, on the back line, if you drag Kat in, then I'm all, all in for an aggressive coverage. But, and that, so they've, when he does drop their bet is obviously with these three big wings sort of on the side coming in for help and then flying out at shooters, they can protect the paint, contest threes, even though they're giving up a ton of threes. We'll see. I picked the nicks to make the finals before the season. I'm picking them to make the finals now. What did you think of the Kellerman? Like just no, never can never win with the six foot best player. Well, I mean, look, to his point, historically, that's just tough to do for any team, not just the nicks. It's really difficult if your best player in your leading score is as big as Jalen Brunson. It's just, just look at it. It's really difficult to pull off. And some of the smaller guards that have been able to do that, get to the finals or win a title, like they had great balance across the board offensively on those teams in terms of winning it all. So, and it's only been, you know, a few guys ever. So, I mean, to me, that statement just kind of encompasses all of basketball at the NBA level. It's very difficult to pull that off. Here's the bottom lines with the league. I don't care who comes out of the east. It's going to be a very difficult thing to beat. Whoever comes out of the west, and I think we know who that's going to be. I mean, I don't know how much more Oklahoma City would have to do to convince anybody that like they're going back to the finals. They're most likely going to be repeat champions. And so, look, no matter what happens, whoever gets there, that's going to be a tough thing to overcome. Just getting to the finals, obviously would be something that everybody in New York would wrap their arms around because they haven't been able to do that either in a very, very long time. Unfortunately though, whoever it is that represents the Eastern Conference, that's what's that's what is waiting for you at the end of the road. It's going to be a very, very difficult uphill battle regardless. So, you know, to say that like the next can't win because of Brunson, he's too small and teams with small guards, you know, shooting that much aren't going to win a championship. I mean, really, if Brunson was 6'8", I don't know that they're winning a championship against that team anyway, if they face the Thunder in the finals. Look, Max is a great debater. He referred to himself as Muhammad Kellerman last week. And he is a great debater. He's incredibly smart and very quick on his feet. And he's a great debater and he knows that this is a great rhetorical advice because it's so wildly unlikely that any team wins an NBA championship that it's of course, it's like the Knicks are very unlikely to win an NBA championship. So, as a result, he's going to be proven right because you reverse engineering the reasoning. I just don't buy any absolutist reasoning like that. Number one, what are they supposed to do? Go out and buy a 6'8", superstar wing at the Wing Superstar grocery store. There's no such thing. This is their team. They have to do it. And I remember arguing with Max about Steph Curry. Now, this was after the Warriors had won at least two titles at that point. And he was saying that, you know, Steph, he thought was a little overrated because basketball self-selects a phrase that he repeated in the Simmons podcast for height because it's a 10-foot basket. And I just said, look, I get that, but what this guy does with his gravity is so unique and special and the openings it creates for everybody else that he's compensated. He's almost like a bigger player in the level of help that he's able to draw. And Jalen Brunson is not Steph Curry, but he's a very special one-on-one isolation player that I just don't like, yeah, of course, would he be better off if it was 6'6". Sure. I don't think any of these absolutes apply. It just depends so much on what the context of your team is. And they've bet that with these wings and with Kat as like a co-star that they can do it, to your point, they're going to face somebody out of the West who's better than they are, whoever wins these. Let's go back to the second-use playing game because I forgot to talk about Miami, which is my team. My big question for you, Tim, like we're about to Miami Heat, who are playing Orlando in the quarterfinals, the Battle of Florida, is can the Bama to Bioclale wear duo really work? And by that, I mean, sometimes they start, sometimes they don't. Regardless, can it be a 15-20, 25-minute a game look this season, next season, and beyond for the Miami Heat? Well, I think it can. I think they're already proving that. And one of the reasons I say it can is because of how much faith I have in their head coach. And this team has really, really surprised me. I called them boring going into the season. They just were like, okay, there's a heat. I have so much respect for Spolter. You know they're going to play hard. They're going to compete. I just didn't love watching them. I didn't love their roster. They added Norman Powell. And I talked to Eric Spolster in Chicago in September for the coaches meetings. And I sat down with all these coaches and just talked about their team and just got into some film work with these guys. What he said flat out was we just finished the season. We said, absolutely, no matter what, we've got to add offense. We don't have enough offense to win in the NBA. They went out and they added Norman Powell, who's given them even more than he was given a year ago with the Clippers, which I thought was like basically his ceiling. He's 24 points a game and he has given them that pop and they've done a lot of what they've done to start the year without Tyler Hero. And I've been unbelievably impressed with the way they have completely transformed what they look like offensively, how fast they play, how early they shoot, how easy it is for them to put together huge quarters. You know, for Miami to get to a 30 point quarter a year ago, you just felt like, wow, what a quarter they just had. Now, they could put together four of those in the same game. That was never the case in recent memory with this team. And so I've been unbelievably impressed with what they have done to change my opinion about like what they look like, their style, how entertaining they are, the numbers they're putting up is hard to guard. Eric Sproul says the right guy to push the right buttons with lineups, rotations, with changing defenses, with the right calls at the right time in late game situations when they utilize timeouts like he does the challenges at the right time. Eric Sproul says the right guy to navigate this roster. So if there is a situation where they've got Kaleh Ware and Bam out of bio, some lights it might not look like it's going to work a little bit clunky. I trust Eric Sproul said to be able to push the right button at the right time of when those two guys are going to be on the court and be productive based on the opponent, based on the individual matchup and the rotation in that game. So far the results are checkered. They are minus 30 in 123 minutes this season with Bam and Kaleh on the floor. 105 offensive rating, 118 defense rating. A lot of that can be explained. Some of that, some of that can be explained by three point shooting both ends. Miami not making theirs opponents making theirs. Last year though, they were plus 44 in 500 plus minutes, 113 offensive ratings, still not great, 108 and a half defensive rating. And for this to work, they have to be fearsome defensively, like all that size, all that rebounding, Ware has made a big leap defensively, still has a ways to go. The answer to this one is TBD for me. The numbers would make you pessimistic. The eye test and Bam's versatility on defense, and just the sort of primacy of skilled size in the NBA right now would make me want to do everything possible to make this work. And I do think both of them can shoot it well enough. Bam can drive it well enough, although at the four, he doesn't have the speed advantage in this drive and kick offense the way he does at the five. I think that's a little bit of an issue. But like people have asked, well, how does Kaleh Ware fit into this just attack, attack, attack offense? He's not an off the dribble guy. Number one is three is pretty good. And number two, what a target for dump off passes when you get into the lane, like just throw the lob, bounce it to him in the paint, whatever. So I'm, I remain kind of cautiously optimistic. It does like, as you talk about their offense, it is interesting. Remember the night that this is your era, remember the Mike Fratello 1990s calves who tricked people who tricked people into thinking they had the best defense in the NBA, but really they were just playing it like a snail's pace. The heat are like the opposite of that, where they've tricked people into thinking they have an elite offense because they score so many points, which is really the result of their pace. They're 13th in offense, which is very good coming from where they were. But I think people are talking about them like they're a top five or six offense and they're just not, they're good. But that's, that is fantastic given where they were last year, how much time heroes missed, and he's heard again, I don't know for how long, how much time Powell has even missed. Like they, they could be a 10, 11 kind of offense with their defense. That's a plus. The Zac Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. 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Everyone loves a good comeback story like when Michael Jordan broke his foot in 85, and then returned that same season and set a new record for most points scored in a postseason game. Another comeback that's just as exciting, the Scout Traveler and Scout Terror returning new and improved with four-wheel drive and a projected 1,000 pound feet of torque. Join the waitlist at scoutmotors.com. Concept vehicles not available for sale, features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the waitlist is not guaranteed to purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. All right, you ready to move west? Yep, let's do it. Let's start with Spurs Lakers. You had San Antonio as your team, so kick it off. Well, I think for me, it's, you know, obviously, Wemby's out right now. It's imminent, his return. It looks like it's going to be potentially even, I guess, their next game had a full practice. So it looks like he's about ready to ramp it up again. And so I guess, I'm really impressed with this collection of young guards that they have. Like, Fox is, you know, does what he's been doing in this league for a while. I love Stefan Castle. I love his toughness. I love his defense. He's taken his offense up a notch. Dillon Harper is going to be a star in this league. He gets to the rim so easy. He's got like real man strength right now when he drives the ball to the rim. So they've got this just, you know, wealth at the guard spot. They've got these wings that can score even on nights they get limited touches. They find a way to get it done. And then of course, you've got Wemby. My question is, do you think he's, how ready is he to really be a guy that in a seven game series and beyond multiple seven game series, is he ready now physically to be able to play the game he wants to play and play to his strengths enough to be able to get through some, you know, a round or two in the Western Conference. You know, we look at him some nights, obviously in the start he had to the season, we were all kind of like just absolutely blown away at what we were watching. It just didn't look like anything we'd ever seen. But then he's got some nights still, and I called one of these games, where you can get into him a little bit. And if they're not putting him in positions where he catches it in advantageous positions on the court, you can muscle him a little bit and get up under him when he drives. And he'll take some off balance runners that are definitely kind of bailing you out defensively. So there's still enough of that in there, Zach, that I go, you know what, look, he's so young, but he's so incredible, so nice that we think, okay, he's ready and it's ready now. And that's my question. How close is he? How, when will it happen where Wemby is playing so dominantly every night to his strengths and not doing the things that you want him to do defensively? Because some of those things get, you know, it's a wrestling match sometimes, he's going to lose some of those. And he ends up bailing you out by taking this shot because he's seven, five, it can shoot it over the top of anybody, rather than the nights when he plays a little bit stronger through contact, and he's a little bit more like what he wants to get. And he looks unstoppable. I don't know. I don't know the answer then. I don't think it's this year, will it be next year, will it be the year after? Maybe some of that's going to be tied to the emergence of some of these young guards I talked about too. What a spot the Spurs are in right now, to your point, because they are one of the teams that has the goods to trade for Yanis. And the sort of present day roster that you would look and say, all right, if we have Fox in Wemby and Yanis and whatever else is left over, we could actually make a run at it now, which is if you're going to trade for Yanis, you have to make a run at it now. You have to be able to make a run at it immediately. On the other hand, they're already really good, 15 and seven. And to your point about Wemby, and sort of what does this all look like? I think there are now eight and three, since Wemby and Yama got injured. And it's exactly unfolding in the way you would think, if you had mapped out an optimistic result for the Spurs of that Wemby and Yama, it would be, well, Fox is healthy, offense goes up a little bit, defense suffers a lot, but the offense overcomes it. That's exactly what's happened. With Wemby and Yama on the floor, 114 offensive rating, 105 defensive rating, plus nine monster number, exactly the way you'd expect. Wemby off the floor, offense jumps to 118, defense jumps to 117. And then you think he's still only played eight games with De'Aaron and Fox, I think, maybe nine, I don't know, it's like eight or nine games, nine games. Is there a world in which they combine all of this together? The offensive verve they've found without Wemby and Yama and Fox getting healthy and integrating himself into the crunch time offense. Harper, now Castle's also been hurt. Harper is now back with Wemby and Yama's defensive presence. This could be a pretty goddamn good team right now. I just don't think the juggernauts in front of them, Oklahoma City, Denver, Houston, I just don't see any world in which the Spurs present day single season ceiling is high enough to beat any of those teams in a playoff series. I mean, you could talk me into maybe Houston, again, assuming everyone's fully healthy. But beyond that, I don't see it. But there is something interesting percolating here. And it's interesting enough that the honest question, I really don't know what, you want to just do the honest thing now. I asked you to just give me, to set aside the contractual realities, which are, he's eligible for a contract extension after the season. I don't think he can actually sign it until October, which is an interesting, I checked with some union people on this. It's an interesting sort of nugget in this. And any team that's going to give up the goods for him is going to want to know ahead of time, is he going to sign the extension or not, which allows him to put his thumb on the scale a little bit. And if he really wants to nix or he really wants whatever to try to direct himself his way there. I wanted you to set aside all of that and just say, what is Tim Legler's dream basketball fit? If not Milwaukee, right? And he repeated his thing to Chris Haynes on Amazon, my Amazon Prime teammate, that he wants to run through a wall, he sees the wall, he wants to run through it. Maybe this is just another false start to all this. But if it isn't a false start, what's your dream fit? I'm going to give one from each conference, because I had one team, for me, the nix are the and that's the team that he has said, it's been reported that that's the place he would go if it wasn't Milwaukee. You look at it at franchise like that and that kind of market with the electricity around that team right now that's been created since Shailen Brunson has turned into what he's turned into. It's back, like that environment, that energy and this organization that hasn't won in 50 years. And Janice, the ultimate challenge to go there to see him paired up with Brunson and what that would look like. That would be, was the team that immediately jumped to my mind. But then I started thinking about Houston and I started thinking about that's another team that potentially could have what it takes to get Janice. And when you went out and acquired Kevin Durant, for the Houston Rockets, so you didn't do that with some timeline on the horizon. That's like, no man, like every single year, this year, next year, however long Kevin Durant stays healthy in plays, you got to try to win it. And you've got Oklahoma City in front of you. And that looks like maybe that's something that's not going to happen as good as Houston is and Denver. Like Oklahoma City looks like it's almost a foregone conclusion. So you've got to figure out something else that would be the ultimate for the Houston Rockets to pair him with Kevin Durant and to look at that situation and what Janice could bring. And would that be enough physically to go up and be able to take on a team as good defensively as Oklahoma City? So those would be the two places I think that would be the most interesting. There are some other fun ones that you would like seeing it with, but I'm talking about in terms of relevance and actually having a chance to move that needle to the point of competing for a title. I think those are the two places that make the most sense to me. Yeah, I mentioned all the teams last Thursday. So people can go back and listen to that. The one team I forgot to mention is the Warriors. And I didn't mention them because I just don't think they have enough, but they do have them. They have three first round picks and a piece of another one to trade and some big salaries, including Kaminga, who just got benched and is eligible to be traded January 15th. I mentioned Atlanta, I mentioned Toronto, I mentioned all the teams. Houston, what if I told you that the only way you get him is one, of Shengun or Amon Thompson has to be in the deal. Are you out? Can you be more specific? Pick one. Which one would you prefer to give up if you have to? If that's the only way you're doing it and you're hell bent on doing it, you can pick one. I'm the Bucks. I'm John Horst. I just need one of them you pick. I would probably be more willing to part with Shengun. I said the same thing. And I wouldn't feel great about you. Of course not. Of course not. Yeah. And people get, they lose their mind. Oh, he's talking about trading Shengun. No. I mean, think about what we're saying here. Yanis, and he has proven it this year with what he's doing. There's been no precipitous decline at all in Yanis' dominance and what he's doing on the court and to affect the game in so many ways. Shengun is a player I've come to love, but if you look at stylistically, if you add a Yanis to the mix, that's going to fit better if Shengun isn't there because of the amount that Shengun has the basketball. That's going to be a much more difficult thing. Amin Thompson, he's a guy that I just love his defense so much and there's still so much more, I think, upside as a mobile dominant downhill playmaker. I would be terrified to trade Amin Thompson. Absolutely. Exactly. Right. And you think now, because there's still some rawness to his game, some people might be like, oh, well, no, you don't really know what his upside is going to be and that's exactly why I'd be terrified. I think I know what Shengun's ultimate ceiling is. We're watching it right now. And look, I know he's a really young player, but I don't know if there's that much more than you're seeing right now out of Shengun, which by the way, pretty damn good. It's all star calibers. It's like NBA, like one of the three, you know, all NBA teams caliber player. But I think I know exactly what that's going to look like, probably for the next 10 years. I don't know exactly what the ceiling is going to be on Amin Thompson. And so that would be very scary to see that come to fruition in another place for the next decade if he ends up taking it to another stratosphere, which I think he's got the potential to do. So it would be Shengun and it'd be twisting my arm to pick one of the two, but it would be Shengun. And then obviously, there'd be some other stuff that would have to come back to Milwaukee as well. If they ever got to a point where they could do it without including either of those two players, that becomes a very interesting conversation, even if Reed Shepard has to be involved. The things that can't be underestimated about the honest thing are there are three. Number one is the extension leverage that I talked about that he has. Number two is his injuries are a concern. Teams are looking at distance. A lot of playoff games missed the last few seasons. Another calf thing right now, he's 31 almost. I think he turns 31 this week. This isn't nothing. This is a real concern for teams. And the third one is maybe this is overthinking it, but a team like Houston who's 15 and 6, they have a pretty set style of play that they've leaned all the way into. It's upheaval in the middle of a season that's going well for you. Even with a guy this talented at worst, the fourth best player in the NBA at worst. It is a whole midstream. We've got 30 games or whatever it ends up being 40 games to figure this out. And we're already really good. There is a level of disruption that comes with this. And that's why I want to bring it back to San Antonio, because I talked about them for Yanis and Yanis and Wemby being this incredible pairing of just freaks and lengths and aliens and all this. And I framed it around like, you're going to have to include one of Castle or Harper to get this done if I'm the Bucks. Like there's just no other way to do it. And the Spurs have like pick swaps and other stuff from a bunch of other teams. So I get like a Sacramento pick swap, maybe a Dallas pick swap, just bites at the Apple where I can bet like one of these teams will be bad in the right year for me if I'm Milwaukee. And I don't control my own picks unless I get the back from Atlanta or whatever. And it's an interesting conversation for the Spurs, because you mentioned Durant in Oklahoma City, Durant in Houston. I talked last week about this decision that these Western Conference teams have to make of, is it better for us to go after OKC now, or is it better for us to wait two or three years and see if the luxury tax picks them up, if somebody gets hurt, if somebody declines? And there's no right answer to that question, but I was talking about it to a front office guy about it over the weekend. And he said, I think the answer is actually different for Houston than it is for San Antonio. Because of Durant, Houston baked in some immediacy into their timetable that San Antonio does not have. And the more I think about it for San Antonio, it would have to be like a three for one or four for two trade. So not only am I giving up one of the young guards, both of whom have star potential, as you said, Castle and Harper, not only am I giving up a bunch of draft assets, but I'm also going to have to give up like depth pieces. Harrison Barnes, Keldon Johnson, whatever you want to do to make the salary work. And I'm going to chip away at like guys seven to ten in my rotation, which is a big deal. I think it's a harder decision for the Spurs than even I had thought of last week. It's just there's just a lot of variables, man. These are not easy decisions. All right. Listen, I'm sitting here looking at San Antonio with this collection of young players and the upside of these guys with this trans generational guy in Wemby at the top. And I'm saying there are some risks involved there. Yes, it would look like a sci-fi movie to watch the two of them together defensively. I don't know what that length would look like to an opposing offensive player with those two guys on the court. The lob to each other potential that would represent. It's almost comical to think about. So that's kind of fun to play with. But at the same time, what they have right now is so healthy. Their culture, the talent that they've acquired, the direction they're headed in. A guy like Wemby that you're thinking like, hey, man, it stays healthy. Look at the next 12 to 15 years with this guy as our best player because they've had that before with their top guy sticking around that long and that amount of winning that took place. They're headed in that direction. Do you want to just, and because you add Yanis, then everything speeds up. Now you've got to get it done quicker for the Spurs because you just added Yanis. He's had it. He's reached his 31. Like we've got to now do this a lot faster timeframe. Is that a little bit unsettling? Does that rattle the cage a little bit? With the Spurs fan base, if you voted on that, would they all, would everybody be like, all in? Oh, we get Yanis and Wemby. You got to think these things through and the pieces you're going to lose that are major rotational fits and just the positivity around everything and where this is headed and the picks they've made and they've hit a home run on all of these. Like you've got to think about that. Do we want to disrupt that because we're headed there and maybe we get there at a time when Oklahoma City is dealing with some issues that they've lost some guys and maybe that's the right time to arrive because if you add Yanis, that speeds all of that up where you're trying to contend year after year with him as well against an Oklahoma City team that doesn't look like they're about to go anywhere over the next several years. Yeah, it's really fascinating because on the one hand, if I'm the Spurs, this stretch of that Wemby makes me really want to see what this team, as president constructed, can do when healthy. Like how good is the Fox, Wemby, everything we've seen? How good is it altogether? And on the flip side, I'm pretty certain that no matter how good it is, it's not good enough to beat the Thunder and the Nuggets and maybe the Rockets in a playoff series and I kind of don't know what to do with that. And to your point about another argument for waiting that I think it's overlooked sometimes is there will be another guy, another unhappy superstar in two years, three years, a year, 18 months, maybe not as good as Yanis, but maybe it doesn't have to be as good as Yanis if Wemby and Yama is so good. There'll be other stuff that comes up. All right, they're playing in the quarterfinals of Los Angeles Lakers, which was my team. My big question for Tim Legler about the Lakers is 17 and 6, LeBron Streak over, again, the most fitting double digit streak ending play that could possibly have. I mean, you and I remember when he passed to Don Yael Marshall in the 2007 conference finals against the Pistons when he kicked out and people hated it on him for that. I remember in March, 2012, I was at the Sloan Conference when he passed at down one heat jazz, passed to you, Don is Hazlam for a long two that Hazlam missed and he got pilloried for that, even though they were both the right basketball play. Let me, you could argue about the 2007 one, but man, if you read some of the coverage of LeBron from like 2007 through 2012, it's so scathing and the passing late in games criticism is like, so it almost reads as like borderline insane sometimes because he was making the right play every time. And of course, now he's celebrated for it. Anyway, clutch basket just against Philly, 17 and 6, second in the West, 20th in defense. And that's my question for you. Reeves, Luca LeBron, no matter how you configure it, no matter how you work the rotation, stagger the minutes, play Marcus Smart, maybe Jared Vanderbilt gets back into the rotation somehow, whatever you do, is this team good enough defensively to do actual real like get to the conference finals and maybe beyond damage in the Western Conference? Well, their defense is not going to be the reason that it's not going to be good enough at any point, I think because of the personnel. It's just not going to be. Now, JJ Reddick can get clever with with coverages and, you know, mixing in some zone and different things to protect guys out on the floor. And look, that's always going to be a case with Luca. It's not as bad as it was last year when it was almost laughable, what they had to do to try to protect him at all times. He's playing a little bit harder on that end, but he's just not going to be a guy that affects the game a whole lot down there. I think what JJ Reddick's counting on is, it will not be something that is so poor, we can't overcome it because we have these three different guys that can manipulate defenses unlike any other team in the league. No team in the league has three guys that can control and manipulate a defense through isolation or ball screen the way that their three guys can. I think that they've got three guys averaging 6.8 assists and up. It's pretty incredible. And Reeve showed you what he was capable of doing when different guys were out and it was kind of his show. He's like the perfect guy to pair with both of them, but on nights when he has to be more him because one of those guys is out, he's showing you what he can take it to. And I think that's what JJ's counting on. He thinks that they're built more for less possessions in a playoff game, good luck guarding us and guarding these three guys who can, even against physical defenses, have the handle and the strength and the size and the IQ and the shot making ability to be able to trump whatever you throw at us. Defensively, it's always going to be something that we're trying to mask. It'll mean less in the playoffs than it does a lot of nights in the regular season. And I think that's what they're counting on. And some nights you look at them offensively and you kind of go, man, okay, again, listen, this is all comparing everything to Oklahoma City. So it's almost like you're not saying can they win the West. What we're really saying is, can they be the last team standing against the Thunder? That's really what this conversation is in the Western Conference. It's not really about to me getting to the finals, because I just don't see that happening of Oklahoma City keeps their top guys healthy. And it may be even then, they're so deep, but we're really talking about it. Can they be the last team standing if you stay out of O.K.C.'s bracket? Can you be that team that takes them on to the conference finals that actually give them a competitive series in the conference finals? And I think the answer to that, for me, is yes. And I think for JJ Redick, I think he really likes his team, because he knows how hard they are to deal with because of those three guys. See, I think I still think the fully healthy nuggets could give Oklahoma City a run in the playoffs. The Rockets are TBD, but I like the way that they're sort of leaning in on, like, we can't beat them running. We can't beat them with sexy offense. We're just going to beat the shit out of them. That's the only chance we have. And the Lakers, as you said, are going with, we have this three-headed monster offensively that, even if our defense is average, you're just even you, Oklahoma City, even you with 9,000 wing defenders to throw at these guys and swipe at the ball, are not going to have an answer. For a guy who already beat you in the playoffs two years ago with a different team, the Dallas Mavericks, sorry, Mads fans, in Luka. It's an interesting, but the Nuggets are the one team that I think, I'm not just waltzing Oklahoma City into the finals, even though I did pick them to win the championship and still would. And the Lakers, to your point about playoff basketball, ain't no in clutch games this season. And that ain't no record in close games down the stretch is sort of inflating their overall record. They have the point differential of like a 12 and whatever, 12 and nine team instead of a 17 and 16. And yes, I realized I did the math, they're wrong. And they're getting propped up their record by these clutch games, but I don't like, maybe that should be six and two instead of eight and zero. This team is built to win close games with the guys they have orchestrating their offense and decision making they have leading games. I think they're more dangerous as a potential conference finals team than that 20th ranking in defense might suggest, because I do think there are still some levers left to pull some guys left to get healthy. And the offense, which is six is completely legit to me. I think LeBron, although he wasn't shooting well until last night against Philadelphia, has integrated himself as well and as smoothly as could possibly have been expected. And they're going to be super hard to guard. And if Houston has, I mean, Houston style, we'll see how it translates. Denver is not healthy right now. We'll see what their health status is in the playoffs. We'll obviously see what LeBron's health is at age 41 in the playoffs. I don't think it's unfathomable at all that the Lakers could get to the conference finals. They think they're going to be a dangerous team. And people are sort of, there's this cadre of critics who are like, well, their defense stinks. They have no chance. Well, they might not have a chance to get to thunder. I'm not counting them out against anybody else. Now I'd pick Denver over them in a playoff series. I'd probably pick Houston over them in a playoff series, but I'd think hard about it. And obviously I'd pick Oklahoma City, but I think they're a legit, really good team. Like I don't, I don't think this record is super misleading. I think this is a good team. Totally agree with that. And I think, look, you're right. And I don't think it's going to be a cake walk for Oklahoma City. I just sit there and think about all the things that would have to go right for you to beat them four times in a seven game series. And look, Denver took them to seven games a year ago, Indiana took them to seven games in the NBA finals. And so, you know, it was, it was a tough path, but I do, this team is better. This Oklahoma City team is better. And, you know, not just saying that because they're what, 22 and one, they just are. Like not only have they had like an emergence of a guy like AJ Mitchell, who's this guy is a big time player. And this is on diagonal on those nights when everybody is available. Now this year it's been like just enough guys out every night that everybody's getting appropriate run. Eventually at some point, like there's going to be some guys frozen out a little bit of this rotation. That's going to be a difficult decision for him, but they're better because they now have, to me, they have this swagger about them and this confidence about them that they're carrying themselves differently. Last year they knew they were a great team. It was still uncharted territory. You know, were they going to be able to do it after getting bounced a year before? Can you, can you get all the way through and navigate it? And they were able to navigate the big moments in the big games. I think they're better than they were. So they only challenged in the post season. It's just really hard for me to think Denver, Houston, which was the two top teams or the Lakers could beat them four times because of what they are able to do to you with their versatility, defensively, and the number of guys that cause problems on that end of the floor. And then just the ultimate answer in shade, which no one really has any idea how to slow him down and to get him off his spot. So it, look, they're there to me, if they're not just the leader of clubhouse, they're like the prohibitive favorite. Again, it's pretty obvious with the start of the year they've had, there are three teams that are can challenge them, but beating them is a different thing. Well, they were your, Oklahoma City, Phoenix is the last cup quarterfinal game. Oklahoma City was your team. Big issue, big question. Did you just say it or do you have something? No, I think that's it. I think my, here's my, here's my only question for you because I think this is really all we're talking about with this team. You know, first of all, you know, do you think they're going to win 75, 76 games? I mean, they're on pace for 78 right now. So they have to really cool off to win 75 or 76. They'd have to have a bad week at some point. You know, and here's my question about them. If they do it, and all the metrics are there that we talked about, and they win 75 games, they break the single season record, then they go on and they win three rounds and they're not pushed beyond like, say six games in any series, and then they get to the NBA finals, and they win that in five or six games as well. Like, if all that were to happen, do you think they will be a team that then will ascend to greatest of all time or one of the greatest of all time? Do you, or do you think that there's such nostalgia associated with some of those teams that it's very difficult to crack that no matter what their season ends up being? Like, how do you view them? And based on the current landscape of the NBA and what the league looks like, if they're able to pull this off, what will that say about this team historically? That's really, to me, what they're chasing now. They're chasing being not just a champion. They're chasing being an all-time great team. That's what they want to do. And it seems like they're pretty damn intent on doing that this year by breaking the record and really doing it without pushing themselves. Well, and, you know, Shay's comments, I can't remember who he made them to a few weeks ago about, you know, we weren't satisfied with how we played in the playoffs last year, with how we, you know, just had to sneak out a couple of series like that. That was like a terrifying warning shot to the entire league as if they needed to fire another warning shot when they're 23-1 with a net rating that is ridiculous. It's part of the reason I took the over on them, even though the line was set preposterously high. I think they want this. I think they like this. I think they want the pressure. I think they're hungry to make history. I do think they're going to win 70 games, maybe 73. I don't know. I will say I'm almost not ready for your discussion yet about their plays in history because we've seen it's just, it's too hard. It's so hard that even the evidence being the 73-win team did not win the championship. Like it's just so hard and there's going to be moments in the playoffs that will test them. But yes, Tim, if all those things happen, they will be in the conversation for greatest single season team of all time. They will have repeated as champions, which opens the door to all kinds of historic discussions. And they are sitting on not only the Los Angeles Clippers unprotected first round pick, but this Philadelphia 76ers top four protected first round pick and the Utah Jazz top eight protected first round pick in related news. The Jazz tanked and didn't tank. They just got blown out by the thunder last night without Lowry marketing. And the Clippers after one nice win post Chris Paul parting of ways went right back to losing. It's a little bit scary, but it's always harder than people think. I do think they're, I do think they're cracking 70. And if you, you know, they're next three games, including this Phoenix game, we're all pretty winnable. And then it gets a little harder. 73, it's just, you know, you know, they'll have, I mean, though, they won't have a lull, but I, I mean, like you said, they're on pace for 78 wins. And I, can I, can I give you one more thought on them? Cause I felt something you just said, Trigga, I agree with you. I think they do want it. And I don't necessarily think Mark Dignal wants that. He, I've been around Mark Dignal more than, we've spent, it's almost like a second home, but you know, calling games in Oklahoma city, we've been there so much. And, and I've had so many conversations with him. He's so present in the given moment, hour by hour, the way that he, his mentality, but everything, it's not something that I think he is ever even really consciously thought. Yes, man, that'd be great. Be cool for these guys to do. He doesn't, but I think the players do. And I don't even think they're talking about it, but the way that they're carrying themselves, the amount of enthusiasm, enthusiasm they have for what they're doing to teams, it seems like, you know, it's there, it's floating around, and it's something that they are grabbing as a group, even if it's not ever going to be discussed or ever going to be emphasized internally. It's just organically possible because of the way that they carry themselves, the amount of depth they have on given nights to give guys rest and stay fresh. I do think that, that they're kind of going for it, even if they're not going to talk about it. And they've got a great chance to do it. Think about this, Zach, do you know the, do you know the only game they lost this year was the Port? They were up 20. They lost a 20 point lead in that game, or they're 24 and up, or they're 24 and 0 right now. And now, then we wouldn't just be talking about 73 wins. Then we would be talking about 33 in a row. That other record out there that seems absolutely impossible, especially in current NBA with the amount of injuries and blood management and all this stuff that goes on. If they had gotten that game in Portland and held that lead, they'd be 24 and 0 right now. Did they then, that would be the next, we'd be talking about that too, doing both of those. I almost wonder if, I wonder if this is, if not been verbalized, if it is popped into the brains of anybody with the Oklahoma City Thunder of, now we have this new thing, the NBA Cup, being the first team to win the Cup and the championship. And now maybe you set the win record in the same year. The Cup is like this little extra thing. I'll bet you someone in there is saw like, who won the Cup last year, the Bucks, they didn't do so well. Who won the first one, the Lakers? They didn't do that great. Well, wouldn't it be cool if we won and we won the whole thing? Phoenix is their opponent. And my big question for you for Phoenix, the Suns are 12th in offense, 13th in defense, just a solid all-around team. And I just big picture, does this, does this seem real to you? Like how, how surprised are you and how sustainable is this? Is this really an above 500 team in the West? They've become one of my guilty pleasures watching the Phoenix Suns. And here's, here's the first thing you notice about the Phoenix Suns now. Just visually, if you sit down to watch the game, it's obvious that they're playing harder than they did the last few years. And just by doing that, you kind of have a little bit more admiration for them because they were just this under-achievement. You know, they're trying to put that talent together and try to win. It just never looked right. This is different. Again, you've got this one clear Alphide Booker. You've had an incredible year though out of Dylan Brooks. You know, I didn't think Dylan Brooks could dial his game up to this level offensively. One of the best stories in the league in Colin Gillespie, which really strikes home with me because of coaching against him when he was started, when he was like 12 years old in AAU and watching this kid and what he has gone on to become and now entrenched himself in Phoenix and such an important cog for them. You know, this rookie coach, after they brought in two guys that won titles, you know, and they both, and they gave both of those guys one year each in Vogue LeBoot and Older, didn't work. So let's go with Jordan Nott. It's never been a head coach in the league. Let's redefine what we're going to look like with this one alpha offensively and pieces that fit. And I got, but here's the biggest thing, play harder. Let's just see what can happen if we actually compete with, with that level of physicality. And that's what they're doing. And that's why I do think, look, I don't know if they're going to maintain this winning percentage, but I do think this is a team that's got a great shot to, you know, when it's all said and done, potentially be above the play in or in the play in and a chance to advance into a seven game series. And I didn't know that anybody really thought that going into the season. I've been really impressed with what this product looks like compared to what I watched for the last three years. Maybe the stat of the entire season for the deep cut nerds. The Phoenix Suns are plus 50 in 248 minutes with the dynamic duo of Colin Gillespie and Jordan Goodwin on the floor together. Just swiping the ball from people, going the other way and Colin Gillespie just making big three after big three late in games and being called Connor Gillespie on some broadcasts by people who don't know who the hell he is. I guess my big question of them would be on offense. 12th strikes me as quite high considering Booker has had just a so-so shooting season. Jalen Green hasn't played at all. Maybe that would help. Maybe it wouldn't. And just they don't exactly overflow with ball handling talent aside from Booker. Brooks has been outstanding. He's ever been 22 a game shooting the hell out of it on twos. They are 29th in shots at the rim. So they're not getting to the basket much. And they're shooting well from all over the floor. Top 10 from every range on the floor in shooting percentage. That I think probably will come down a little bit. But this is a play in team for sure. They're 7 to 10 in the West lock. Like I don't see any chance that they fall out of that. And maybe they stick in the 7 and 8. I mean, Memphis has started to play a lot better. They've had an easy schedule, but they've also piled up some good wins now. Like that's been, it's kind of been interesting to watch the Grizzlies without John Morant. Like Vince Williams has been pretty good as a pseudo point guard. Jalen Wells has found his game. Edie completely changes their team with the post up like pick and roll. He rolls hard. He rolls into post ups. He gets good position. They've got a good spirit about them now, but there's still a few games behind Phoenix. The top six is a bridge too far for me. This top six in the West of OKC, Lakers, Nuggets, Rockets, Spurs, Wolves, always the forgotten team, the Wolves. It's just, I don't see Phoenix cracking that. But if you, we get to the end of the season and they're hosting a play in game, whether it's the first game or the second game, that wouldn't surprise me all. This team is legit, tough, good, hard nosed, super fun to watch. Immers yourself in herbal essences, new Moroccan Argan Oil Elixir infused with pure argan oil. Just one drop delivers up to 100 hours of hair nourishment with the indulgent scent of a Moroccan garden. Herbal essences, new Moroccan Argan Oil Elixir, spa quality hair repair without the price tag. Try it now. Herbal essences. Surfers repair to smoothness, nourishment with regimen use versus non conditioning shampoo. Can I ask you about one other team before we get to all star picks? Sure. This is becoming one of the more pressing issues in the league to me, particularly after they lost to the remains of the Warriors and one half of the Lax Bros, the Spencer Bros over the weekend. What's wrong with the Cleveland Cavaliers? Or is anything wrong with the Cleveland Cavaliers other than they just can't get and stay healthy? Is that all it is? Or is there something else going on here for a team that won 60-something games last year? They're 14 and 11 despite playing 15 of their first 25 at home. And just, eye test doesn't look great to me. Great. And so they won 64 games a year ago. They were number one rated offensive team in the league, their 10th this year. So, and that's injuries have a lot to do with that. Darius Garland, even when he has played, does not look quite the same. He does not look as explosive or as quick or just as dynamic as he was, even on the nights he's played. They haven't had Max Drew. Sam Merrill, who's important for them, has missed a lot of time. Jared Allen's only played 10 games. Injuries matter in this league a lot. We talk about it a lot. They've definitely dealt with more than their share, but it's more than that. I don't think they're that tough of a team. And I don't think they play quite hard enough. I also think, Zach, is there a cumulative effect that's kind of taken root with this team of last year, best offense in the NBA, 64 wins, pedal to the metal, full throttle, watch them all year and every night you're like, man, how are you going to guard this team? And then at the end of the day, they get bounced and they go out with a whimper and the playoffs. And does that carry over to the next year where you're kind of like, well, they don't feel quite the same as like the regular season, man. Like, I see the finish line. Like, we're going to get there. We're out ahead of the pack. We're dominating the Eastern Conference. Nobody can catch us. And it's almost like when you lose the way that they did and like there's such, it's such a let down the way the year ended. And you take that into the summer. I almost feel like I'm watching a team that's kind of feeling that way about themselves a little bit. Well, what does all this even mean? Like, who cares about being the number one offensive team in the 64 games? Like, it wasn't good enough. So it's almost like the regular season, maybe, it means a little bit less than it did to them a year ago as well, because when I watched them, I don't see that same level of intensity. I only called one of their games this year was opening night against the Knicks in New York. And the Knicks were significantly more intense and played a lot harder in that game. Down in the Mitchell, I had this monster third quarter that made it a game. Other than that, the Knicks took it to them. And you're kind of watching it going, oh, it's interesting. Start to the year for them. But it's kind of been like that all year. And the injuries are a big part of it. And maybe they'll get all these guys back and go in a roll. It remains to be seen. But there's an edge to them that's not there that I look at with some of the other teams that I really like watching. And I look at the Cavs and I go, there's something missing with their mental and physical toughness and just their intensity in general. And maybe they just got to get healthy and they'll feel better about themselves and they'll go on another run. And we'll forget about a lot of that. I'm worried. I've been worried almost the entire year. I came into the year and I called this an existential crisis season for the Cavs. Like this big, this four guys either works or we get to the end of the year and they're not going to all be on the same team after the offseason again. And it didn't work. And now I think it's only gotten more accelerated than that. Here's your case for optimism. If you're a Cavs fan, they are 22nd and three-point shooting and they are allowing the 10th highest three-point shooting percentage from their opponents. Just that normalizing is probably worth like three wins in their 17 and eight. And none of this is an issue, right? With Mitchell and Mobley on the floor together, they're plus 7.5 per 100 possessions. Great number. Not as good as last year, but good. With Mobley and Allyn on the floor together, plus 10 per 100 possessions. Then you look like, let me look at their numbers with the big four on the floor, plus 1.8 per 100 possessions. Well, that's not very good. And then you look at Garland. They are getting blitzed with Garland on the floor. And just watching every game you watch, to watch the most recent one against the Warriors, if you just watched Darius Garland, there's like three instances in every game where you can see his toe acting up. Like you can see him wince, you can see him limp for a couple steps, you could, and it's just like, this isn't going away. And that to me is the number one reason for worry is that I just like, I don't understand. It seems like it's just a permanent is too strong a word. It's not going away right now. Jared Allen's kind of been underwhelming. And when he's out, I wonder what your answer to this, I watched a couple of their most recent games with this question in mind. Why isn't it a little easier for Evan Mobley and their offense in general, when Evan Mobley is playing center? Like, why aren't there more spread pick and roll, easy baskets for him? What is your thought about that question? Yeah, I agree with that. I watched them some nights. And I think to myself, like, it's almost like he picks up the crumb sometimes. Like there's no, you know what I mean? It's not intentional, like what we're trying to do because of his versatile skill set. And he is a very versatile offensive player. He's added deep shooting to his game, which that was something he didn't really think much about the first couple of years in the league. He's now become more of a threat out there. He's got a really soft touch with either hand, if he gets into paint, he could put it down a little bit better. He's added some a little bit of escape ability with his handle. But I agree with you. I think it should be far easier to get him an advantage. Almost every trip, if that's what you want to do, particularly against switching teams, because of his size and his ability now to do more with the basketball and the fact that he can shoot over the top a little bit easier, he doesn't have to be wide open for an open 18 foot face-up jumper. Like he can do more than that now on the perimeter to get his own shot. I just, it feels like there's nights I watch him and it's, it's still like a quietness to his game some quarters. When you watch him, that's surprising because I think he's better than that. Yeah. And I was watching specifically the Mitchell Mowbly and Garland Mowbly pick and roll with him at center, the floor spread around him. Like teams are obviously sending help towards him on the catch and that happens to every big man. He just seems to sort of have just a tiny bit of hesitation in his game sometimes where he doesn't want to just force his way through little tiny corridors that other guys will just ram through. And that's fine. Like he gets a lot of assists that way and he still has averaging 20 points a game. It's just not as, nothing is as easy as it was last year. I do think when Streus comes back, it will be an interesting moment for them because Deandre Hunter has sort of taken that starting spot and he's been good for them. But the way Streus moves around the floor and the speed with which he runs every cut and just always moving, I think might be a better fit for their starting five than Hunter. Hunter looks like a better defensive player than Streus. I'm not sure that he actually is. I think he's a little overrated in that sense. I wonder if that would kind of juice them up a little bit, but I don't know. I'm, it's not, it doesn't look great. All right. I asked you to pick your All-Stars. 12 from each conference. I went through this last year just to, or last week rather, just to get a feel for this new ballot where I need a minimum of 16 U.S. players and a minimum of eight international players for this goofy round robin All-Star game because we just can't have a normal All-Star game anymore. And I ended up with, depending on how you classify Carl Anthony Towns, I classified them as a U.S. player for my purposes. I ended up with 15 American players and nine international players, which means I would have had to add another U.S. player. Start in the East. You just rattle off your 12 All-Star picks in the East. Okay. Kate Cunningham, Jalen Brunson, Jalen Brown, Tyrese Maxey, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Johnson, Jalen Durin, Kat and Bam. That is what nine guys, that's nine USA players. Okay. And then the three, the three other guys I added, the who would go to the World Team, Franz Wagner, Yanis and Giddy. Giddy. All right. So you have no norm Powell. That's a difference between you and me. You got norm instead of Bam, but you can't have both. I have norm over Bam. Okay. No Evan Mobley. That was kind of, I was torn between norm and, norm and Powell and Bam myself, being honest. I don't have Mobley either. And no Scotty Barnes. Yeah, I didn't have, yeah, I know you have both of those guys. Yeah, I have my replacing, replacing who, Giddy and who. I have no Bam. I have no Giddy. And who else did you have there at the end? Kat? No, I have, I'll just name mine again. And I'm revising. I've Cade, Brunson, Kat, Mitchell, Jalen Brown, Jalen Johnson, Tyrese Maxi and Yanis. And then we differ. I have Scotty Barnes. I have Mobley penciled in. Oh, so you don't have Jalen Durin. I might put Durin in over Mobley. He's like my next guy in. It would be, it would be very difficult to not reward Durin for the year Detroit side. If you look at his numbers and Mobleys, that would be tough for me to go with, to go with Mobley over Durin. Mobley is a better all around player, but Durin's been, Durin's been very consistently dominant, man. Yeah. And as people would say, well, he's more of a kind of a moochier on offense, like catching lobs and offense rebounds. He's actually doing quite a bit of self creation in their offense, both as a scorer and a passer. So I wouldn't mind that. And then I had Franz in and my replacement, the guy I felt worst about was Siakam, who's just quietly having this like 24, seven and six season. And yeah, it's easy to say, well, we have to reward winning and blah, blah, blah. I mean, the Pacers are minus four with Siakam on the floor and minus 17 when he's on the bench. He's just propping up this now, now getting healthy. And part of the reason I'm thinking about him and Durin is we could flash forward three weeks and Indiana could start winning like a normal amount of games because they're getting healthy, like it's still below 500, but their record wouldn't look like this. And the Pistons could fall back and have already started to fall back at least a little bit. They want to in a row now, but you can't go wrong with A-Nose, you know, I had Franz and I would give his spot to Siakam if Franz is injured. No, Scotty Barnes is a tough one. What does Scotty Barnes have to do to get some respect? I know, man. I'm with you. And I guess, you know, be a lot of people would take him over Giddy, I guess, you know, I'm looking at, I can't take Giddy's. Listen, if Siakam, listen, if Siakam, this, and I think part of that was probably more, this is probably about 10 days late with Giddy, right? Because their team has sort of nose dived, but they had this incredible year and he's still, his, his numbers, he's still 29 and nine with great shooting splits too. He's almost 40% from the three, which was such an Achilles heel for him. To shoot, to be clear, he's on my like final cuts list. I just couldn't quite get there. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, I have no problem whatsoever if anybody is going to give a spot to, to Scotty Barnes. Some people might even put Ingram on there because you're going to get somebody from Toronto with, you know, they've got a very good, you know, first 25 games or whatever. Some people would do that. Scotty Barnes is, you know, they're best all around players. So I'd be perfectly fine with that. And again, like I wrote these names down like Giddy is like holding on, but their team continues to, he won't be in, outing in consideration if they, if they continue to lose games over the, over the month of December. If I had to pick between guys I didn't put on, I would put Bam over Giddy. And I might put Bam on anyway. Look, his offensive numbers are never going to look spectacular. He's like 19 and nine is shooting. It's just okay. What that dude does, defensively, plugging every hole and going to anybody that's the guy is just a flat out winner. And if you want to reward that, that's fine. And Siakov, I just want to say his name because he's not going to get mentioned. He's going to get overlooked because the Pacers record, he's been sensational for the Pacers. And I think probably deserves one of these spots, particularly if Franz is injured and can't go. All right, let's go out to the West where spoiler the field is deeper and tougher. And the final cuts are pretty painful. Who you got? All right. So I've got 12 names listed. Six are US, six are world. Okay. US players, Steph Curry. Check. Devin Durant. Check. Anthony Edwards. Check. Devin Booker. No check. You don't have Devin Booker. Okay. We'll see. We'll see. We'll get there. Uh, Chad Holmgren. Check. Austin Reeves. Check. And then World Guys. Luca. Check. Shay. Check. Joker. Check. Shengun. Check. Wemby. Check. Denny Avia. Check. That's my 12. So you did not. So the only one we were different. Who do you have over Booker? Jamal Murray. Jamal Murray. Okay. Yeah, that was, that was my, that was my coin flip. Honestly, that was my coin flip. Here's the, and here's the only, here's the only reason I decided, literally this was the debate. I, 11 names I wrote down really quickly. And then I got to that last one. It's tough in the West, man. It's tough. It's tough. Like we didn't even mention Lowry Markinon, who's one of my final guys out. And he's after my 28th. It's a game. Jamal Murray. Here's ultimately why I, why I went with Reeves over Murray. And again, man, coin flip. I don't, I easily could be Murray. For the most part, like there's not nights when Murray has had to be their best player because he's playing next to Yocatch. Like there have been nights the Lakers can't win, haven't been able to win or wouldn't win if Austin Reeves wasn't their best player on that given night. And so the burden he's had to carry with LeBron out nights, he played without Luca too. And I called one of those games when he hit the buzzer beater. And he had, you know, 28 points, like 14 assists and was getting everything thrown at him defensively against Minnesota that you can imagine. And he still did whatever he wanted to with the ball and hits the floater at the buzzer to win the game. I'm saying there's nights his burden has been so much higher because he hasn't had those guys next to him or he's had one of them. But even on those nights, he's been like the guy for long stretches of games. Murray's been great. And he's a big reason why Denver is like in the championship mix again, because he's playing so well, but he doesn't have that burden. Most of the time he always does have Joker out there and it's going to be him dictating things. Reeves has had nights where he's had to do it and he has. And as a result, you look up and the Lakers have the record they have despite all the time missed from LeBron and time missed from Luca as well. Let me be clear. This is not a Jamal Murray, Austin Reeves argument for me. I'm sorry. Austin Reeves is a lock. Austin Reeves is a lock. Yeah, I was, I was, your argument was with Booker. Yeah. So I'll do the, but Austin Reeves is like a hundred percent cosine. He's in, he makes the All-Star team. What a story, undrafted two way to this averaging 29 points a game, almost crazy, no brainer, All-Star. Jamal Murray, 25 points, seven assists, four and a half rebounds, 51% shooting, 45% on threes, 55% on twos. Devin Booker, 25 points a game, seven assists a game, four and a half rebounds a game, basically the same stats, 46% shooting, 31 and a half on threes, 52 on twos. Now he is the best player on the Phoenix Suns and has to be the best player in the Phoenix Suns. Jamal Murray has the luxury of playing with the best player in basketball. I just, I look at the shooting percentages. I look at the injuries to Denver's starting five. I look at the fact that they have finally been able to stay afloat without Yolketch on the floor and Murray is part of those lineups. And I'm just going to give him the award of, you're shooting the bejesus out of it. You've had a couple of monster games, a 52 point game recently. I'm putting you in. Booker is a brutal omission and it doesn't end there. Lowry Markinen, I mean, what am I supposed to say to Utah fans? He's having a sensational season. I don't know what else to say except there's a lot of guys. Avdia, I think, might raise some eyebrows from people who aren't paying attention. His numbers are awesome and the Blazers are a positive plus scoring margin with him on the floor minus 13 per 100 possessions when he's off the floor. And he has to play point guard for a team who all their point guards are injured. He's in. Lowry is a brutal omission and he would be an easy case for him. Julius Randall is a brutal omission. You can make an easy case for him. The one that's going to be polarizing is Hardin, who has had maybe the best off season of his career post Houston. And people are going to say, well, you're just punishing him because of the Clippers record. How could you do that and make an argument for Siakam or whatever? Well, number one, it's the West. The field is just deeper. The standards are higher. Number two, he's had a great season. There's no question about it. The Clippers are bad and he is averaging, let me bring it up, 27, 8 and 5, 44% shooting, 37% on threes, 54% on twos. He's an iron man who plays every game. I don't really have a great argument against it other than who am I removing from this crazy field of guys in the West when Chet's got to be on. Like Oklahoma City's got to have two All-Stars. There's just no question he's worthy of it. I don't know who to pick. And I do think as sensational as Hardin's numbers are offensively, his defense has been bad even by his standards. And that's the reason not him, but their defense is the reason why they're bad. So I'm sweating hairs. I got to leave them off and you left them off too, I guess. Yeah. Now look, I want to do an answer question. She's just looking at this. So if you, we were 11, we were 11 for 12 in terms of agreeing in the West. So let's say you were right. It's Murray instead of Booker. Murray goes to the world team, right? I need to add one American team. You got to add some of that was my point. You have to add an American. And maybe that's where Booker gets in. Who would I, I'd have to look at it would be Booker or Scotty Barnes. Well, for me, it wouldn't be Scotty Barnes because I would have him. It could be Randall. It could be Newslether. It could be BAM in my case. BAM. That's right. Cause you didn't have BAM. You had power. It can't be power. Poor Larry Markin. And the internet, I think the international guys have have a tougher road to climb here than the U S guys. Honestly, particularly if Wemby, I mean, Wemby's going to get in despite the game's miss. And we haven't even, but like, there's also this possibility of, I don't, I have to refresh my memory, but you would imagine LeBron is going to win the fan vote somehow. Like, I don't know what that is, but like, he doesn't even, he hasn't played enough. These are not easy decisions, man. And some of these guys, like Lowry Markin and the season he's having and not making an all-star game would be a tough pill to swallow. Well, I'll do you too. I'm wondering like, there's going to be people that are going to just flat out, you know, look, they're nine and 15 right now. I mean, you know, move that forward over there. They play at the same winning percentage over the month of December, you know, first half of January, when these things are being decided, there's going to be people who knows, like Dallas starts winning games. They pass them. Now, Portland's not even in play in territory. There are going to be people that are going to use that against him, despite these numbers and despite, you know, the metrics you put out there and how bad they are with these off the floor. There are going to be people that's, and that's why, honestly, that's why I didn't even consider Pascal Siakam, James Harden. Like for me, you got one team with five wins, one team with six. That's tough, man. You're winning 25% of your games. I didn't even really even look there as great as Siakam. I get it. I get it because there are no stakes. Well, I'll be saying, obviously, obviously, I could trend in that direction, man. If they hit a six or seven game, Lucy Shriek at some point, it's going to be tough for him to get in as well because I think winning should matter and it does matter. Right now, nine to 15, like, okay, you're still kind of alive if your numbers are this good to be in it. But you might look up a month from now and that those numbers and that discrepancy of two wins and losses might be too much for people to overcome in their minds. I would like to propose something to you. I think we should create a 13th for each conference All-Star spot. It doesn't matter where you're from. We're going to call it the Rodman spot. And now Rodman made two All-Star teams. You have to be averaging fewer than 10 points a game and your team has to be above 500. We get to pick one such player every year from each conference. Because the guy that I would nominate, the top of mind guy, is there's got to be something for what Stephen Adams is doing in Houston. The guy comes in and the entire game changes for the Rockets. He gets every rebound. He's blocking shots at the rim, throwing passes. He can score a little bit if he gets off. And you can see, like, they played the Kings over the weekend, the Kings stink. We know that. But he was faced off against Maxine Raynaud, the guy at the rookie center, who's just, you have, like, I bet Stephen Adams walked into that game thinking, this poor guy, he's got no shot, man. I'm just going to bulldoze him into the second row and get every rebound. I think that's my proposal. We got to have a Rodman All-Star spot. And those are the rules. Less than 10 points a game, your team is above 500. I like that a lot. I mean, to recognize a guy in that way that's so important to your team's success, but it's never going to have the kind of numbers that are going to ever get him in the real, genuine conversation for the All-Star game. That would be tremendous. Maybe less than 12 points a game to open the door for a few more guys who can score a little bit. But we can... And I have to, since you're since, I didn't know you were going to hit me with that. I'm going to think about it. And the next time that we get together, we'll give our name for who that guy is. Well, mine is Stephen Adams in the West Side. No matter what. All right, you got it. In the East, I'd have to think about it. I mean, Mitchell Robinson is like a pretty close archetype, but he's missed a lot of games. I'd have to think a little bit. It's a stupid... The points cut off is maybe arbitrary. But anyway, Tim Legler, when do we next see you? We got the All City podcast. What's the schedule for that? All cities, yeah. All cities a couple of days a week. So that's usually typically Mondays and Wednesdays. Of course, doing stuff with you guys this year. And I don't have... But I'm not... As far as calling a game, I'm the regular game analyst now, but we lost a lot of time to Amazon and NBC. We had to give up some games. And a lot of those were here early in the year. So I called a game Thanksgiving Eve with my partners, Mike Breen and Richard Jefferson. You won't see us calling another game. Actually, on anywhere on ESPN or ABC, between Thanksgiving Eve and Christmas. So that's the next breakout day. Five games on Christmas. We'll have a big one. Houston at the Lakers. We've got Christmas Day. So that'll be the next game that I call. Can't wait for that. And then after the first of the year, we'll get back to our normal stuff. Will you be seeing me all the time on games? Well, look, the best in the business, the iPad legend. And it's been a great... It's been a great fit. You get in there and you just fit right in with Breen and RJ. And RJ, look, I guess RJ is like, you know, you got to elbow in and get your words. And when you're sitting next to RJ, but it's a great broadcast, Tim, you're the best. Appreciate your time. Well, a lot of people have said that about me too over the years, Zach. So yes. But it's been great, man. Great chemistry, great dudes building a great friendship. The more reps we get, we cannot wait to see what we have in store the second half of the season. I appreciate you having me. Always love talking with you, man. You're as good as... Yes. Maybe you'll do the season finale thunder game and they'll have 73 wins. Oh, that would be awesome. Maybe it'll be 79 and two going into their last game. Who the hell knows? Thanks, bud. You got it. See you. All right. That's it for today's edition of the Zach Lo Show. We'll be back later this week, probably on Thursday with our usual second episode. Thanks to Jonathan, Mike, Billy, and Jesse on production. Thanks to you all for listening and watching the Zach Lo Show. Thanks to the great Tim Legler. We will see you all soon. Must be 21 or over in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. Or 18 and over in president DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming Gambling problem called 1-800-GAMBLER, or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut, or visit md-gambling-help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. 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