Is Love Enough? And Other Valentine’s Day Questions

Lemonada. We often record these episodes in advance so we don't get to respond in real time to what's going on in our country. It is a hard and frightening time. We believe we all have to do whatever we can to help protect our immigrant family members, friends, colleagues, and neighbors. Today we want to offer just two ways to get involved. Connect with Indivisible, a grassroots organization that mobilizes local actions across the U.S. Their website is indivisible.org. Another great organization is the National Immigrant Justice Center, whose mission is to establish and defend the legal rights of immigrants. You can go to immigrantjustice.org and click on the Ways to Help tab. We're all in this together. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You know what? Did you hear about this amazing thing that happens to somebody? They ended up having this terrible stroke And they were out completely You know, a person in 30s or 40s And do you know what happened? When they woke up And I mean, they woke up totally from this devastating thing Nobody knew if this woman could talk again But she woke up and heard somebody speaking with an Italian accent And didn't know who it was It was her Oh, foreign accent syndrome Foreign accent syndrome It's crazy No, it's crazy People get some sort of traumatic brain injury and they wake up and they are speaking in a foreign accent. Sometimes it's like totally made up. Sometimes it completely sounds Italian or French and they cannot get back to their regular voice. These are people who do not have any experience with that language, do not have any relationship to it. And it becomes incredibly debilitating because people around them in their life are like, why are you talking in a French accent? Or they say, oh, they're in a French accent. They say, where are you from? And they say New Jersey. Now, fascinatingly, when these people sing music, sing a song, often they are able to sing in their regular voice. And many have found that if they think of a sentence in their head, and then they sing it in their head before they try to speak it, they're able to speak a sentence in their regular voice. But you can't live your life conversationally singing every sentence. Well, that's why kids that stutter who can sing without stutter. The brain is amazing, amazing, amazing. Hey, guys, Valentine's Day is around the corner. How do you feel about that holiday? I know this is all an invention of a business, you know, like Hallmark Cars or something. I don't think it's bad to have a holiday that reminds you of the people that you love and people that you should love or people that you should be more loving to. I just always have a request. I do not want red friggin' roses, the cliche of the world, on Valentine's Day. Do you know that, honey? You know that about me. I don't want that. Great. You're not going to get me. Great. What do you like on Valentine's Day? I don't send you red roses ever, do I? I just do everything for you. I get you water on Valentine's Day. Wow, he gets you water. Once a year, isn't that something? That is a lie. That is crazy romantic. In the earshot of this. Every day I'm getting her water, getting her coffee, making food for her, cleaning the dishes. Dad, I think you spilled your own secret there. Yeah. You just announced that on Valentine's Day you're a big special. No, he loves them. I love it. He loves it. It's his meditation. And I take care of my Valentine on Valentine's Day. Wait, you wash dishes like your mother? All your dishes look like your mother? What do you mean? No, I wash dishes like my mother washed dishes. She loved it. She lived in the kitchen. I love to be washing dishes and not having to talk to our guests. So you don't have any dishes in the shape of your mother? No, but some dishes remind me of my mother. Where are the blue china ones with the white and blue? There was one. There was one. She used to hang in the closet. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Why is it in your closet? Because I don't like the way it looks. I've noticed that you guys tend to hate some holidays and you like some others. I hate Halloween. I told you why. I'm going to list five holidays or special days, and I want you to rank them from most hated to least hated. Ready? Okay. They are Valentine's Day, Halloween, your birthday, July 4th, and Daylight Savings. Rank them in the least favorite. From most hated to least hated. Okay. It's kind of like a cognitive test because now I've got to remember the list. I feel like I'm already famous. Valentine's Day, Halloween, your birthday, July 4th, daylight saving. Halloween, I hate the most. I hate the most, too. So that we're in common. That's ranked as number one hated. The next one would probably be. My father says we don't hate. We may dislike something intensely, but we don't hate. I'm trying to think. I don't hate my birthday. I like my birthday. It reminds me that I got to be born and I'm still here. I don't get daylight savings time. I know there's a huge controversy the world over, And I know that it has a lot to do with when we were an agricultural country. But I think we should be one thing or the other. It would make people less crazy. So, rank. Halloween, I hate the most. July 4th will probably come next. Because, you know, bombs bursting in frigging air. Yay, yay. And we're still doing more bombs. And our structure of how we live is heinous. And I really don't like that. Except I'm very happy about watching Ken Burns' American Revolution. I'm learning a lot that I didn't know about, once again, what a great idea we are. You know that guy who plays Ben Franklin in it? Yeah, I know him. Isn't that guy amazing? He is amazing. Don't you feel like you're listening to Ben Franklin? Yeah, I feel like I'm listening. Oh, my God. I can't figure out who he is. It's Mandy Patinkin who plays Ben Franklin. No, it isn't. Halloween, July 4th. Halloween, July 4th. Daylight Savings. Valentine's Day. Oh, right. Yeah, Valentine's Day and my birthday. But I don't know if it's my birthday. Yeah. Sorry, honey. If you could invent a new holiday that was brand new to celebrate something for America, what would it be? Celebrating the human species and celebrating all the ways which AI will never, ever come close to being as idiosyncratic as an unusual as us. What would that holiday be called? The Anti-AI Pro-Human Species Holiday. Well, that's catchy. I'd ask you to come up with a better title. How about Refugee Day, where we celebrate... Well, that's a great idea. Or Immigrants Day, where we celebrate all the value that immigrants bring to this country. I think that's a great idea. I think that's great. All right. Let's do it. All right, let's do it. Would you, is there a holiday you would create, if you could create any holiday? I would create non-guilt day. Oh, you know, there was guys from a podcast called Reply All, which dealt with things on the internet. And they created something that I believe is still celebrated to this day. It's called Email Debt Forgiveness Day. Oh, my God. A day where you can respond to any tardy email that you've been feeling guilty about without any apology or that time has been forgotten. So they did create an international holiday around a feeling of guilt and email that has helped a lot of people. And my wish has been granted. Great. You know, that is just really true. That's why I try and write actual letters to people I want to get their attention. and I feel they might be better with a real letter than an email because I never even see the emails because they're so overwhelmed. I mean, I just found an email from somebody from a year ago, and I felt terrible. My favorite Jewish holidays are Rosh Hashanah because I loved the gatherings of our family and friends. I loved making the butterfly lamb marinated in one cup shoyu, one cup honey, tons of garlic chopped up, stabbed, and inserted in the lamb overnight, and a seven-minute broil on each side. I love Yom Kippur. I love the quiet and the, I mean, it's supposed to be a day of repentance, where you throw away your troubles. I love that ritual to take bread and cast it upon the water, throw away your troubles. I love Yom Kippur because I I love the reflection and thinking about life and how you want to, as Uncle Mike would say, our actions are the ground we walk on and to improve the ground, improve your actions and your behavior. And those are the two I really like the most. Chanukah is a little dicey now because I love potato latkes. are a challenge to make, and once they're made or bought, they're incredibly fattening and unhealthy for you. It's a sin as far as I'm concerned to eat them without sour cream and applesauce. Well, it's a good thing sour cream and applesauce are readily available. Yeah. You know, every year I tell myself I'm going to be one of those people who meal plans. And then, of course, life gets in the way, And that's why Marley's Spoon is such a game changer. Marley's Spoon gives you over 100 recipes to choose from each week. Yeah, you got that right. 100. I mean, we're talking comforting classics like chicken Milanese with cucumber arugula salad to fresh, balanced dishes like everything bagels, salmon with truffle chive, potatoes and green beans. All of these are made with really high quality ingredients. And there's something for every mood. One of my favorite most recent meals was the chana masala with toasted naan. I adored that. that, I mean, it just felt like I was going to my favorite Indian restaurant, but instead, it was right out of my own kitchen. It was fantastically delicious. This new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley Spoon. Head to marleyspoon.com slash offer slash don't listen for up to 25 free meals. That's right. Up to 25 free meals with Marley Spoon. That's marleyspoon.com slash offer slash don't listen for up to 25 free meals. It's fantastic food. I want to move on to our first listener question today. This comes from Cheryl. And Mom, I'm wondering if you could read this for us. Hi, Katherine. Hi, Mandy. Hi, Gideon. I love you guys. And I love love. I always have. She loves love. I love love. I love love. There you go. There you go. Start off. No it okay I always have But here the thing I get strange looks or comments about when it comes up I in my 30s and I never been in a romantic relationship And to be honest, I'm okay with that. I don't really crave one. I have so many other kinds of love around me. I have two amazing pets. I have a close circle of really good friends. I have a great brother. My parents are awesome. And fuck yeah, I love myself too. It was really liberating to learn that the Greeks have names for at least eight different types of love. I don't know what my question is, except to say, romantic love isn't the only type of love. Thanks for the space to rant, Cheryl. Oh my God, Cheryl, I love that observation. I think this country in particular is so over-obsessed with only a singular romantic kind of love. And bravo for you for being able to love yourself and recognize all the different kinds of love and expression of that feeling. I just think it's fabulous. And I'd love to know, I'm going to look up the eight types of love that the Greeks, and I bet maybe we have somebody that did that. Yes, we have them right here, actually. Oh, my God. But what about you, Deb? Before we get into that, do you think our culture focuses too much on romantic love? 100%. I think it's necessary to procreate. I think it's a feel-good thing. I think it helps you calm down and go to sleep with times. Are you talking about sex? Yes, that's how I'm defining romantic love. And I prefer the love I love the most is everything but that. Right. And so I just love the companionship knowing mom is on the planet with me, in the room with me, on a walk with me, next to me where I can just touch her arm. But that's a kind of romantic love, too. It's a romance. Right, that's a partner love. I love being with you. I love being with you when we go on adventures. I love being with my grandchildren, my sons, my son's ladies in their lives. I love being with my dog. I love looking at right now. There was a great snowstorm and everything's covered in white. I love that. That's a great feeling. But you know what Cheryl says here, she gets strange comments if she says she's okay. I think there's so much emphasis that you read about. I'm longing for a romantic relationship with a person. And I think it's so refreshing and so individually thrilling that somebody goes, excuse me, is it okay that I don't feel that? I love my parents. I love my brother. I love my pets. I love myself. To love yourself is really a rare thing. So good for you, Cheryl. And thank you for reminding me of all this. If you're looking for it, it doesn't happen. And so just love being alive. Right. But that's also an assumption that everyone is always looking for it. And I think something that's cool that's present here in Cheryl's thing is she's not saying, I've been trying to find it everywhere. And I'm exhausted. And I'm like, enough with it already. And I'm focusing on other things. She's kind of saying, I don't get it. It's not really a thing for me right now. It's not the best chocolate chip cookie. And I don't know if Cheryl identifies as an asexual person, which are people who don't have those sexual feelings. That's different than being aromantic. Some people out there in the world don't feel that they have sexual desires or those feelings. That's not in their chemical neurological makeup. But they do like romance. Some people like romance. So there's everything under the sun, but it's really only a handful of things that get represented over and over in the stories we tell and the things we see. So she mentioned that the Greeks have the eight words for love, and I wanted to do a little pop quiz. I'm going to name the eight types of love the ancient Greeks identified, and I want you to tell me what kind of love it is. Okay? Say the first thing that pops into your mind. Okay? Eros. What kind of love is that? Erotic love, physical love Bow and arrow We'll go one and then the other So dad, this one Philia What kind of love? Love of horses Nice What do you think? Philia Philia Love of words Great It's friendship love Oh, I love that Because friendship That's the most important thing to me Next to my family Is that the Greek word for friendship? Yeah Is that what they say? It might be, yeah. It must be what they all mean. Okay, what about Ludus? Who's this first? Who's this for? Mom first. Ludus. What do you think that is? Love of material things? Dad, Ludus. Love of profanity. Great guesses. It's playful, flirtatious love. Oh, my God. They were so frigging smart. This is a really good one. Look at all these. Agape. Dad, what comes to mind? Love of wine. Agape. Agape. Love of animals? Agape is selfless love or love for everyone. Wow. Like a pastor or a rabbi or somebody that is very selfless, like a good nun. Yeah. Just love of humanity. Wow. Agape. I actually, you know, Philip who runs the Hungarian pastry shop on 110th Street. Some of the artwork in there was done by this Greek artist that was very close to the place. And he lived on an island and had a project of trying to paint a million angels of agape, angels of unconditional love, selfless love. And they're on the wall there? No, he hands them out to people. And certain people who meet a lot of people in their life, he gives them hundreds to give to folks. So I've been giving people these angels of agape. I love the angels I have. I meant to have one for you today, but I forgot. So I'm going to give you one later. Okay, what about pragma? Pragmatist. So love of being pragmatical. Love of getting things done or love of people that can help you do things. Nice. It is enduring, committed love. So you could have a combination. Oh, yeah, for sure. You could start off with Eros and go to Philia and then go to Pragma. So far, I score zero. I have no love understanding for any of the Greek understandings of love. I think you've been close. Close? I'm just picking words that sound like what I think they mean. I'm a love idiot. In ancient Greece. In ancient Greece, yeah. Well, I like Greece. I love... Try it, you'll like it. Tzatziki. Tzatziki. What about phalatia? Oh, blowjob love. What do you mean, oh, God? What's wrong with that? Ma, don't be anti-blowjobs. We are pro-sex. We are pro-bodies on this show. We are pro-blowjobs. What do you think of blowjobs? Honey, I really, I'm not going to go there. You name it. Because I think it's private. And I don't like being public. You think blowjobs are private? I just find it an absolutely adolescent conversation. I didn't like it when I was an adolescent. I really hate it now. What were we talking about? Oh, yeah. Falaucia. It does sound like a blowjob or something. It's love of self. Dad. What do you think of Falaucia? She's erasing you. Coca-Pepsi. What do you think of Falaucia? I'm erasing you. Mom is erasing dad in real life with her imaginary human eraser. Would you tell me what that means, please? Have a lemon or soup? Yes. Felautia is love. I don't know how to say it. That doesn't sound like felatia. Felautia. That's very Italian. It's love of self. Well, that's fantastic. So we can all strive for more. Can I have a list of these? I'd like to put this on my open board. Yeah, for sure. Okay, two more. Storge. Storge. A relative of the three Storges Great, Mom, what kind of love do you think that is? Storge, a love for nature? Familial love Familial love is Storge Storge Which is different than your friendship filia And then I bet you can guess this last one Mania Or mania Well, a love of being manic A love of extreme conditions A love of Mania Mania, a love of being Chaos A love of chaos. Obsessive love. Oh, yeah. That's what most Americans think real love is. When you're tortured, when you can't stop thinking of your love object. Of these eight types of love, which one do you think you have the most of? Or which one do you feel you need more of? Well, I think I could use more of self-love, which is called... Which one is that? Self-love was... Fatucci. Felicia. Yeah, I think I need more of that. I think... You hear that, Dad? The affiliate, I couldn't live without the friendships I have. Yeah. You hear that, honey? I'm on it. I said I'm on it. You hear me? dad what kind of which one of these do you think you um uh have the most of or which one do you need more of the romantic love friendship love playful flirtatious love selfless love enduring committed love uh love of self familial love or obsessive love i need more love of self yeah me too i'm a little lost on that one i don't have enough self-love where will you find it And a book. You'll practice it by beating yourself up less. There you go. Well, that's it? Yeah. Oh, great. Thanks. Our work is done. Yeah. Our work is done. Yeah. So we are going to be joined by a live caller. Mom, Dad, put your headphones on. Earbuds. Sure. Earbuds. Ready? Yes. And mom, dad, this is Eve. Hello, Eve. Hello. Hi, Eve. Hi, Eve. Nice to see you. Hi, so nice to see you. Nice to see you. You look so familiar to me, Eve. Oh, do I? Have we met? I wish we have. This is the first time that I know of. Okay, great, great. Hi. Eve, thanks so much for calling in. Tell us a bit about yourself, please. Well, thank you for having me. I am 24 years old. I am from Philly, live in Philly. I'm a nurse. Oh, how great. Yes. And I do a little bit of singing too, which I know that Mandy does some singing, so that's pretty cool. What kind of nurse are you? I do pediatric ICU. So I float around to three different ICUs. I do, there's like the pediatric general ICU Then I do the cardiac ICU for kids and the neonatal ICU What is that like How what state are the kids in How do you work with the kids How do you calm them down, quiet them, make them not so frightened? I do sing to them a lot. What is something you often sing to them? Can I hear a little of that? Oh my gosh, I was not expecting this. I like to sing a lot of jazz standards. So like Misty by Ella Fitzgerald's version. Okay. Just so you know, I encourage everyone to say no to my parents whenever they feel like it. Oh yeah, you can say no whenever you want. But I say don't listen to him. Listen to her and you. The only reason why I am going to do this is because my mom would kill me if I didn't. Well, that's a good reason. That's the reason I do everything. I'm going to sing for like two seconds, okay? Okay, that's all we can afford, too. Otherwise, we have to pay for it. No, we can go up to six seconds. I think we can go up to three seconds. Three seconds, okay. But Dad, you can sing with her if you know the song. Go ahead. Okay. Look at me I'm as happy As a kitten Up a tree It's hard to do without It's beautiful I just love the image of you Singing that to kids And I see you I bet those kids get real calm and quiet They have no idea what the song is It doesn't matter They hear the sound of the music Do you work with the parents too? I do. I do work with the parents. All of us nurses, we really take on the role of these children become our own. And we love them all. Eve, what's your question for us today? What do you want some maybe useful, probably not so useful advice on? Well, I think this would be useful. um so I just for like context I am in my first ever real relationship we've been together now for two and a half years and I am a worrier I do a lot of worrying about the future and about making sure that I have like a very happy and successful loving life and I recently had this conversation with a few co-workers and we were discussing whether love is enough in a relationship and what keeps a relationship strong some people were saying you know at the end of the day whatever happens if the love is there and we love each other and like we're in it that's that and that's what will keep it. And I very strongly disagreed. And I was saying that I do not think love is enough. I've been hurt too many times by people that I know who do love me. And I loved them too. But I think there's just needs to be more to a relationship. So I guess I'm asking you guys, because you've been through life together. You've got such a history. I think that's what you just said is the smartest thing, because I don't even understand when people are saying love is enough. What love means to somebody, to one person, is different from you. Some people have lots of interests in common, work in common, love of sports or nature. Some people have loving relationships and one hates being outdoors and one loves, you know, being in it, whatever. It's how all those different pieces fit together to support the emotional feelings that you feel you have. And then can that love be strong enough to expand as you go through life and have different experiences and react differently to things? Do you feel you have a strong enough fabric that can kind of stretch and expand? Because whoever you are at 24 and whoever your partner is, is hopefully not going to be the same person at 80. Yeah. Do you know? That's really beautiful. I think I get scared that I am going to give so much of myself and like I am very much an open book. I dedicate my whole heart to everything and I get very scared that that is not going to be reciprocated or I am just a temporary thing in the moment. And I know that's all just part of life. but it's just scary. Yeah. You sound very alive to me. I want my son to enter into this. Oh, thank you. Thanks for sharing all that, Eve. I'm curious, why don't you think love is enough in a relationship? um I I think what really gets me is that I don't have a relationship that has been in my life and like stood against time like my parents are divorced and a lot of my family members are separated and I've just watched many of my friends go through relationships where they are sticking through a lot of stuff that I don't think I would put up with and I will say like I think it's time to call it quits and they will say but for the sake of love and I understand it, but I just feel like there needs to be something more. I need more. I need more security. Yeah, I totally hear that. I think something really interesting here for me is the standards of what we're willing to weather in a romantic committed relationship, I think, have really shifted generationally. And I think, you know, parents' generation, there was much more of an attitude a long time ago when you guys got married of, like, sticking it out and weathering the storm, right? Like, since then, divorce rates in this country have, like, skyrocketed. And I think a big part of that is kind of this, you know, for better or worse, this thing that we're sold, you know, through consumer goods, through reality television, television through dating apps that that we can find the perfect match the perfect fit the perfect puzzle piece that ticks all the boxes and we shouldn't have to weather through the um you know brutalities of intimacy uh if if it's feeling too arduous because with these tools we can find our perfect mate you know and somebody who doesn't piss us off as much and um i think that makes with what tools uh dating apps and the internet and the thing it's it's this idea of like you want that perfect match that perfect thing that doesn't hurt you or doesn't fulfill your every need you can find it if it wasn't on hinge it's on bumble if it's not on bumble it's on tinder if it's not on tinder it's on farmers go or whatever there's so many options so you're on farmers go aren't you so i just made that one up i just assume there's a dating app called farmers go for farmers but you know what i mean that that we kind of have this story in the younger generations millennial gen z gen alpha what are you gen z i think so right yeah gen z you know that that we have this idea that we can find it because there's these tools and therefore we deserve it. Does that resonate with you at all? Yes, 100%. I went through a lot of dating people that they truly seemed perfect for me on paper and just something was not right or was not there. But you know, Eve, that's one of the things that drives me absolutely. I mean, both extremes drive me crazy. The couples that had been together 50 years and they've done nothing for the last 40 but make each other and their family miserable. Clearly they should have made a move and you wish for that. But what is equally disturbing to me is younger people that have this notion that love means no conflict, no disagreement, no pain, no arguing, no human. We are very complicated human beings and we have lots of ways of expressing fear or insecurity or love. And to me, what drives me crazy is when you see these serial marriage people, and it's especially in celebrity culture, oh, who has a big million dollar wedding? And they're very happy and perfect for two years. And then they get a big messy divorce and have another $5 million wedding. And I find that all madness. And I'm curious about the partner that you're with, because you did say, do you have these discussions? Are you able to talk about what you think a loving relationship encompasses? You know, for me, at this point, my husband was much better at conflict and expressing anger and not having it be a scary thing, because he grew up more comfortable with that. I didn't, you know, and I thought, well, if you yell, that's it. You know, it's over. And now I feel I've gotten better at yelling and it's improved our relationship because it's a human thing. And it doesn't have to destroy you. It's much better if you're pissed off at something than holding it in and getting an ulcer or being covert, which I used to be an expert at, you know? And just pretending, oh yeah, things are fine because I am so frigging mad at you. I'm not going to give you that intimacy, you know? So I think a full relationship depends on what language you and your partner form together that makes sense to you. And it doesn't have to make sense to anybody else. But if you guys speak that language of what you think are the boundaries or the limitlessness of what you can possibly be together, then that's fantastic. Can I have a little piece to that? The other thing I just wanted to add in is something I feel very deeply. My mother, when I was, I had to be between 8 and 11 because I remember the apartment we lived, it was a black and white TV and we were watching some Mr. Smith goes to Washington type movie. It wasn't that movie, but the two people were walking up some big steps into like a big government building. And the woman says to the younger person, I think it was their kid, well, how will I know? And they were talking about love. How will I know? And the mother said, don't worry, you'll know. And something I loved and never forgot is I always wish for people that they meet as many people as necessary, you know, till you find a meeting where you can't explain what you feel. that there something you feel with this new person that you just have no words to articulate and and that what happens is called life and the if it worth its salt the shit will hit the fan and when that shit hits the fan that's when you remember what you couldn't define or put into words and that's what keeps the plant growing can i can i lovingly challenge a notion in there? Yeah. I've heard you say this idea, and I love that you love that idea. And to me, it's like a very cinematic, kind of storybook idea of love and romance, that when you know, you'll know. It kind of relieves the seeker of love from the complexity of what the answers are, just to say, don't worry about it. The spirit will move you, and you'll know it's true. You don't have to check boxes. You don't have to look for specific qualities. You don't have to look for specific conversation. You'll just know. It's a beautiful idea. But to me, it doesn't resonate. Because that can happen with a lot of people, and that's great. But who that leaves out is all the relationships and all the people who, at their first meeting, maybe they were nervous at the first date or the first two dates. Maybe they were awkward or the worst part of themselves came through. I think what to me is even more romantic and amazing is when people meet each other and they have some sort of friendship or they have some sort of argument or there's friction. Some sort of connection. But for some reason, there's enough interest or exhaustion from other people or wanting just company that you tolerate this person who you don't feel that spark with. But the fact that human beings can grow a spark, not by love at first sight or, you know, these fairy tale things, but by knowing the details, the complexity, the layers that we reveal over time. And I think that's just, I'm not saying that doesn't happen the way you see it. I just think it's one of a million ways. I couldn't agree more. And, you know. I totally agree with you. There's also the stories that you hear. But it wasn't fairy tale. I just want to finish. I didn't think of it as a fairy tale. I just think of it as a possibility, but I also agree with you. Go ahead. Well, it's just so interesting because in different cultures, Eve, you know, there's all these arranged marriages. Some of them are nightmares, but more often you hear people say, well, he was a nice person. My parents liked him. Our families liked him. And then, lo and behold, 20 years later, yeah, they are great companions or they're really grateful for that, you know, idea. Mom and Dad, if love isn't enough, what else do you need for a lasting relationship? If you can think of the top things that come to mind. I can answer that real easy. Connection. Connection. Yeah. Yeah, connection and history. You know, you build a history where nobody will ever know me the way my husband knows me because we met when he was 25 and I was 31. And, oh, my God, we have been through pretty much everything together. Do you know? There is, I love our history. I love sharing that information. I love sharing the births of our children. I'm not going to have a kid with anybody else. Do you know? That profound relationship, that experience and moment happened with him. And even if we hadn't made it to this point, that still would have been an unbelievably intimate connection. anyway Eve I just think you know you're a thoughtful beautiful talented person and just be just listen to your heart and not to your friends and and you know you'll have your own sorrows you don't necessarily repeat the sorrows of your parents or whoever else you've seen believe me you'll make your own but you'll have different skills to deal with them do you know yeah Eve before we say goodbye can you just tell us about the hearts on your sweatshirt I love what you're wearing. Oh, thank you. This, I actually got made down the shore. I was at Ocean City, New Jersey. It's a T and E for my girlfriend, Teresa, and me, Eve. Nice. Philia. Beautiful. Philia. Is that it? There's a Greek word for love that is friendship, which is... It's not friendship. Or is it your girlfriend, your friend, or your girlfriend, your romantic partner? My romantic partner, but she's also my best friend. Well, there you go. Okay, my assumption. We were just learning about the eight different Greek words for the eight different kinds of love, and Mom was excited to remember. How did you know that her girlfriend was her romantic partner as opposed to her friend? I didn't know. I just saw that Mom was making possibly an assumption that it was her girlfriend rather than her romantic one. It's funny. I have this conversation with my mom a lot, too, because it's very common for girls to call their best friends girlfriends. and she's like well now that you have a girlfriend sometimes it's so confusing talking to people about it i was like i hear you it's okay yeah you'll figure it out exactly there's so many choices that we're getting used to i think you're a saint because i think nurses and people that work with children are saints so anybody who gets to be with you are some of the luckiest people on earth St. Eve. Thank you, Eve. Thank you, Eve. Thank you both so much. I can't, I don't even have the words, actually. This has been amazing. It's wonderful to meet you, and you keep singing to those babies. Absolutely. Yes, I will. Okay. Thank you. Take care. Bye-bye. Take care. Have a great day. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you. That brings us to our final bit today, our hang time. And I want to ask you about robot love. What do you think about people dating or loving a robot in the future? Is it wrong? If robot technology gets to a point where the robots are very human-like, especially if the robot challenges us, makes us laugh, inspires us, listens to us, exhibits understanding, makes us become a better person in so many ways, why would you be opposed? What is the attachment you have to just human love as the real kind of love? Isn't that limited? If I, your son, who you love and want to be happy, I'm finding meaning, connection, growth, inspiration, with a humanoid robot AI model 25Z1000, what is the argument against that? None. I'm happy for you. Thank you. I want you to be happy. I don't. Okay, no, I'm sorry. Look, I know I may be the last person standing on this because we're already falling over the AI robotics cliff. I fall over it using that stupid frigging smartphone. As far as I'm concerned right now, all of this technology, I'd like every satellite that allows this technology to work to be dead. Back to my question. Yeah, how would I feel about, okay. No, first of all They're imitating a human They are not, they're programmed Don't you want them to be happy? Not with a robot, no I don't I could be miserable with a person This is theoretical I could be miserable with a person And happy with a robot You'd say please be miserable with that person I would say be miserable with that person Figure it out or find another person Because a robot is a machine And it's programmed by some Fucking algorithm Mom, you are already in a committed, codependent, inescapable, arguably romantic relationship with your robot. It is a part of your body. It's an extension of your personhood. You walk around with your phone all the day. You don't think you're in a relationship with that thing. No, I'm in a relationship with my phone via talking to my real friends. I mean, I feel two minds. One is I feel it's really important to fight what is human and what is manufactured human. And the other, I feel just surrender already. Yes, I have that phone. I can be gotten at every moment. I'm addicted to it. I try not to be. I'm doing things like, you know, plugging it in where I can't reach it. I turn it off periodically. We're done. We're finished as a species because we didn't ask any damn question about this. You also set the record straight. Dad's for my happiness. You're for misery. And regarding the other half of the question in the beginning part, would you want to be with a fully formed robot that was nice to touch and everything else and felt good and warm? Not felt good and warm. It's also imagining robot technology gets to human intelligence or beyond. Then what's wrong with that? Only the intelligence or the presentation? Everything. I mean, is the robot made of metal? or does it feel like a human? I'm not talking about the appeal just being that it's like a sex bot. I'm talking about indistinguishable from human. I'm reserving my judgment for when the technology gets to that point and I have the opportunity to experience it and then ask me the question. Okay, that's great. So that'll be in six months. Can I just say that's already happening? There's already happening. People love these chatbots. They feel they're real. They're my best friend. There's no kind of conflict that's human. And nobody walks out of a room on a robot and they run down the road just to get you back. Well, we'll see how that all shakes out. Thank you all so much for joining us. And really don't listen. Jesus. We want to hear from you more questions, stories, advice for us. What a beautiful sign off of this. Interesting things you want to share or talk about. Please send an email to askmandiancatherine at gmail.com or check out our socials for an easy way to send us a voice note. and don't forget to subscribe or follow us on YouTube, on Apple or other spaces where you watch or listen to your podcasts it's always great having your father talking behind you and these things and please leave us a review I don't read any reviews if you like the show leave us a review, that helps it out we do not want to know about that and thank you so much for being here and tuning in Thanks for tuning in. Yeah. Yeah. Do you tune in on a podcast? Oh, I didn't. I've done my best on this last part. Okay, thank you. Don't Listen to Us is a Lemonada Media original. Hosted by Mandy Patinkin, Catherine Grody, and Gideon Grody Patinkin. Created by Katrina Onstad, Debbie Pacheco, and Gideon Grody Patinkin. 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