Nashville's Morning News with Dan Mandis

Hour 2 of NMN, DCS in Disrepair

35 min
Feb 26, 2026about 2 months ago
Listen to Episode
Summary

Dan Mandis discusses Tennessee's Department of Children's Services (DCS) crisis, highlighting systemic failures including children sleeping in office cots, drug abuse incidents, sex trafficking cases, and severe staff burnout. The episode features calls from foster parents, social workers, and community advocates proposing solutions including support networks, alternative residential facilities, and streamlined family placement processes.

Insights
  • DCS dysfunction stems primarily from management and resource allocation failures rather than insufficient funding—a $73.2M information system has experienced repeated delays while core supervision gaps persist
  • Foster parent burnout and emotional toll, not vetting process complexity, drives the decline in available foster homes, creating a supply-demand crisis affecting 6-15 children nightly in DCS offices
  • Community-based support models (church networks, nonprofit partnerships like Agape Nashville and Tennessee Kids Belong) show promise in sustaining foster families through respite care and meal support
  • Rigid DCS protocols prevent kinship placements even when qualified family members volunteer, suggesting policy inflexibility contributes to unnecessary institutionalization
  • Residential school models (like defunct Tennessee Preparatory School) provided structure, education, and delayed aging-out that current welcome center plans may not replicate at scale
Trends
Shift from traditional foster care toward community-supported foster networks and church-based wraparound servicesGrowing recognition that government agency dysfunction requires nonprofit partnership models rather than centralized solutionsIncreased focus on kinship care and family-first placement policies as alternatives to institutional housingRising awareness of aging-out crisis—youth transitioning to independence without life skills or educational completionDemand for residential school/dormitory models for older youth as cost-effective alternative to scattered office placementsStaff retention crisis in child welfare agencies driving need for workload redistribution and on-call support reformsDrug accessibility and addiction among foster youth emerging as supervision and safety challenge requiring new protocolsSex trafficking of youth in state custody identified as systemic risk requiring investigation follow-up procedures
Topics
Tennessee Department of Children's Services (DCS) systemic failuresFoster parent recruitment and retention crisisChildren sleeping in DCS office facilities overnightDrug abuse incidents in state custodySex trafficking of foster youthDCS information system delays and cost overrunsKinship care placement barriersFoster parent vetting and training requirementsWelcome centers construction timelineStaff turnover and burnout in child welfareResidential school alternatives for older youthChurch and nonprofit support networks for foster familiesAging-out of foster care at age 18Documentation and investigation lapses in DCSRunaway youth from transitional homes
Companies
Agape Nashville
Nonprofit organization providing foster parent training and support services with focus on child placement through re...
Tennessee Kids Belong
Organization encouraging churches to develop RAP support training programs to reduce foster family burnout and increa...
Tennessee Baptist Children's Home
Organization whose director spoke at Southern Baptist Annual Convention about child welfare needs, inspiring caller's...
People
Dan Mandis
Host of Nashville's Morning News discussing DCS crisis and taking caller input on foster care system failures
Cameron Smith
Tennessean writer and frequent radio guest who fosters children and has extensively covered DCS system dysfunction an...
Margie Quinn
DCS Commissioner claiming improvements in office placements and promoting welcome center construction plans to lawmakers
Marsha Lowry
Attorney who filed class action lawsuit against DCS on behalf of foster children in state custody
Jimmy Wayne
Country music star who grew up in foster system and was aged out at 18, interviewed by Mandis about transition challe...
Stephen A. Smith
Mentioned as upcoming interview topic regarding reaction to Trump State of the Union and Democratic response
E.J. Antony
Guest scheduled for 7:05 AM segment to discuss opinion piece making case for Trump's economy
Ali Bradley
Reporter scheduled for 7:35 AM segment to discuss drug cartel violence following El Mencho's death and potential spre...
Quotes
"Money isn't the problem. It looks like management is the problem."
Cameron Smith (via Dan Mandis paraphrase)Mid-episode DCS discussion
"90% of it is parents choosing drugs over their children. And that is obviously heartbreaking."
Anonymous foster parent callerCaller segment
"Absolutely. And if you cannot foster for whatever reason, find people who are. Call this organization. Develop these rap training support groups."
Leah (Mount Juliet caller)Caller segment
"I am a Christian. And I felt a calling years ago to do it, and my wife did not share that calling."
Anonymous foster parent callerCaller segment
"We just had a lady from an organization called Tennessee Kids Belong encouraging churches to develop what they call rap support training because one of the reasons why they lose foster families is burnout."
Leah (Mount Juliet caller)Caller segment
Full Transcript
A lot of stories that I want to cover this morning. I think coming up at 635, I'm going to talk about Stephen A. Smith and his reaction to not only Donald Trump's State of the Union, but also what is going on with the Democrats. So I hate to do this. How about 7-0? I'm trying to set up an interview. I've had a guest cancel on me, and I'm trying to get somebody else on. And I'm going back and forth with E.J. Antony. Uh, so let's see. 7.05 Central Time is what I would like to do because he wrote a great, uh, EJ and Tony did a great, uh, I don't know what you call it, op-ed, a piece, opinion piece, whatever. And, um, he's talking about, he's making the, uh, the case for Donald Trump's economy. Okay, good. We got EJ and Tony for 7.05 here on Nashville's Morning News on Supertalk. By the way, 7.35, I cannot wait, Joan. 735 we're going to speak to a reporter by the name of ali bradley and she's going to talk about the latest with the drug cartels you know because we we took out el mencho yeah and uh the worry is that after the death of el mencho and all of that violence that we saw in mexico and puerto vallarta and guadalajara i think it was well now they're worried that it's going to start to hit Southern California, which is where I'm from. So we're going to talk about the possibility of this drug cartel violence hitting Southern California, which of course means, you know, not only San Diego, but if you go further north, you could talk about Los Angeles as well. So we've got a lot to talk about. It is 6 0 8 on Nashville's morning news. Super text line is open. Thank you. 615-737-9986, 615-737-WWTN. We've had a lot of conversations over the years on the state of Tennessee's Department of Children's Services and the conditions that kids are forced to live under when they don't have a home. And Murphy Show did a great job of talking about this yesterday. And this is part of a report from Channel 5. Very tragic stuff. And it raises questions about abuse and supervision for kids staying in DCS offices and transitional homes. This is horrifying. And what is horrifying about this is that and I have lost track of how many years this has been going on. But I think I think this goes back to pre-COVID. Where we were talking about about kids who have been abandoned by their parents or their parents passed away or whatever happened. They end up in the custody of DCS and then they start living in the offices of DCS. This has been going on, I think, since 2019 at least. But it's been a long time here in the state of Tennessee. Seven years ago, DCS started showing signs of severe placement shortages. Parents simply don't want to take in these kids with troubled lives. And so they have to go somewhere and they end up sleeping in cots in DCS offices, cots on floors and couches and so forth. And so now there is this new report that shows that the situation not only is still happening, but it seems like it's getting worse. Because now, not only are kids sleeping in less than desirable or ideal situations, but now there is drug abuse involved. It found a child using meth while staying in a DCS office, raising questions about who is watching them. You can't expect kids to stay in offices and not have terrible things happen. Attorney Marsha Lowry has brought a class action lawsuit against DCS on behalf of foster kids in state custody. If kids have access to meth, then what kind of supervision are they getting? There's just no supervision for these kids. This is absolutely crazy. How does a kid, you know, I don't even know what meth looks like. Sam, you probably do. What does meth look like? Joan, you know what meth looks like? A crystalline substance akin to like rock salt, but. So is it easy to sneak in meth into a place? Like, in other words, the question is. People sneak it into prison. Okay. So these kids, and there's different ways to take meth. You can swallow. Joan, don't ask how they sneak things into prison. You don't want to know. Okay. No, Joan, you don't want to know. Even I know that. Okay. Why do you know? I've watched movies and stuff. So you can take meth. You can swallow it. You can inhale the fumes. I think you can shoot it too, right? You can shoot it up with a needle? Yeah, under the preferred area for people's toenails. Oh, God. Okay, very good. But, you know, the kids are now sneaking this meth into a DCS office, and so the question is a legit one. Number one, how are they doing this? How many kids are we talking about in these offices, and who is watching them? And how did they get the meth while in DCS custody? And so there's been a look with this commission now. They found huge issues within DCS. It's been called a blistering review of supervision lapses, weak documentation, and unsafe environments within Tennessee's DCS placements. But what's crazy about this story is that they find this kid with meth, right? But Channel 5 says that DCS actually dropped the ball when they found the kid with the meth. But there was no follow-up or investigation to see if other kids had access to meth. We have between 6 and 15 kids every night in offices across the state. Late last year, the comptroller blasted DCS for housing hundreds of kids in offices overnight in 2025. One child spent more than 100 nights in a DCS office. I mean, this is nuts. And, Joan, you know what's interesting is every time I talk about this, people have experiences or have experienced this. So what I want to do is I want to take the phones off hold. And if you have something to say about this, if you have some experiences with this, the phone number is 615-737-9986. If you want to comment on this via telephonic communication, 615-737-9986. One of the issues that people always talk about is that there's fewer and fewer foster homes for these kids, temporary or otherwise. In our state, the state of Tennessee, the number of foster homes is rapidly declining, but the need for them hasn't. Now, I think that there's a few things that are going on. Parents are getting burned out on doing it because these kids obviously are a challenge. The other thing is today's young kids are a lot more challenging, I believe, than in years past. The addictions, and you back me up on this, Joan. Today's kids that are challenged, they are more challenging than in years past because I believe that their addictions are worse. Drugs are more easily accessible. They are addicted to video games because they have been ignored by their parents or whatever has happened. And they're seeing things that they shouldn't on the Internet. And there is no shame. There's no shame left because nobody shames them. There's no standard. There's no moral standard that says this is the way it should be. Yep. Because the left has just derided everybody. Everybody who tries to be morally a good moral person, they're derided. And so these kids don't believe that being that person has any value at all. Oh, Joan, you're such a Bible thumper. I know. Right? I mean, that's what we hear. And also remember on the left, any abhorrent thing that you want to do, go right on ahead. Yep. No limits. Just be you. And so things are now so bad that DCS has a number of things going on. Of course, a high staff turnover is one. But now the folks at DCS, they do say that things are getting better. At least that's what they say. DCS Commissioner Margie Quinn told lawmakers earlier this month, fewer kids are staying in offices at the start of 2026. She also put up pictures of facilities DCS plans to build called welcome centers all across the state that would house kids when they first come in to state custody. We have a plan and it going to continue to improve because the legislature has resourced DCS with historic historic resources Right All right So you know you know you know This isn't your average podcast. This is one of the most, if not the most controversial podcast. This is Full Send. Do you like party ever? I think Post Malone told me once he went to like one of your parties. What was the biggest after party you guys ever did? We had one with you guys. Unfiltered conversations. I'm not going to say any names, but. We got Dr. Phil pulling up. Jake Paul's coming in today. Benjamin Netanyahu, he's about to walk into the podcast right now. I feel like he leaves. Yeah, maybe. The Full Send Podcast. This is so crazy. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. I know what the problem is. So I've been covering this for a long time. This has been a long-term problem. These shiny new homes with all of this funding, they won't even break ground until later this year or late this year. Now, I don't know if that means October, November, December, but who knows how long these shiny new homes are going to take to build. Meantime, we still have kids that are still sleeping in the DCS offices. The Second Look Commission found a child with a history of being sex trafficked and recruiting others ran away from a transitional home with a younger child and trafficked the younger child. Are you kidding me? Oh my gosh. So you had a kid who escapes, takes a younger kid, and ends up trafficking the younger kid. The younger child. This is a really bad situation. The report found DCS simply returned the older child to the transition home with other children, meaning the runaway could recruit others for trafficking. What do we expect to happen to these kids? These are kids who are all being destroyed by these circumstances. These kids are just getting worse and worse. The Second Look Commission found repeated runaways at transition homes were not properly documented. One child ran away eight times, but only two reports were filed. But we are going to work our way out of this problem. And in the meantime, we're going to do a better job of monitoring what's going on in the transitional homes. Why is this taking so long? Why is this taking so long? Things are getting worse, not better. And these kids have been failed by their parents, depending on the situation. These kids have been failed by their parents. Now they're being failed by the state. You know, Joan, who's been on this? Who's that? Our buddy Cameron Smith. So Cameron, you know him. He's filled in for me a few times, obviously. Everybody knows Cameron Smith. He's on with Murphy's show all the time. Writes for the Tennessean. And he's got a lot of experience with DCS. and his family actually fosters kids. Well, he happened to be on with Murphy's show yesterday. And again, he's been talking about this for quite some time. This is a broken, broken system. Let me prove it to you real quick that it's not about money. They've had an information system that has been deprecated since 2008. It has stopped basically being sufficient and started to fall apart since then. To Governor Lee's credit, said we need a new system. The new system that tracks the kids in DCS custody, all the DCS investigators, their information system has a budget of $73.2 million. What? Yeah. It's experienced multiple delays. It's going to go live in October of 2026. We had consultants out the yin-yang. Right. And this, between federal funding and state funding, $73.2 million on the information system. Unbelievable. So looking at that money that the state legislature has approved, it is a lot. So as Cameron says, money isn't the problem. It looks like management is the problem. And it's one thing to say, oh, yeah, things are going to get better. OK, but when will they actually get better? Because, again, not to belabor the point, but this problem has been going on for a long time. So why are we just now starting to build these homes? And what is the deal with this, you know, many millions of dollars worth of communication system that has been delayed over and over and over again? Some of this, I'm going to be honest with you, Joe, some of this sounds like California level stupidity. And we as a state of Tennessee, we're better than this. So what the heck is going on? Got a lot of people want to talk about this, and we're going to. The phone number is 615-737-9986. Talking about the dysfunction within the Department of Children's Services, and I've got somebody who wants to remain anonymous on line one. You are a current foster parent? Talking to me? Yes, sir. Okay, sorry. Yes, I am a current foster parent. Been doing it for a long time. And there is a whole lot to this DCS and fiasco, I guess. And a lot of it is not DCS's fault. A lot of it is the overloading of the system. There are so many kids and so few foster homes. there is a tremendous amount of hoops you have to jump through in order to be a foster parent and remain a foster parent do you know what hey let me just you're right that was part of my research i actually didn't include it in my monologue and i should have but one of the things that they said is that there are a lot of hoops to jump through and and so that is discouraging parents from taking kids in. I mean, that is something that's necessary because you have to vet these foster homes. I mean, you know, you have to. Oh, yeah, absolutely. These kids, I'm telling you, a lot of these kids, you know, I first wanted to call in whenever you said something about, you know, their parents have gave up on them or, you know, their parents have passed away. And I'll tell you, probably I would say maybe 5% of the foster kids, in my experience, maybe 5% have had parents, if that, have had parents that passed away. 90% of it is parents choosing drugs over their children. And that is obviously heartbreaking. And then they come into a situation where... And these kids have been taught to lie since they learned to talk. they would rather they would rather listen to a six my wife and i when we first started this we were going to take teenagers and we have taken majority well hey hey hold on hey hold on oh here's what i need to do here's what i need to do i gotta put you i got a lot of people that want to talk about this and so what i want to do i'm going to put you on hold i want to hear about your experience i also want to hear about the vetting process that these people as you say appropriately have to go through. But the sad fact of the matter is, as I said in my monologue on this, we have too many foster families who have decided they no longer want to foster. And at the same time, the need has not stopped. And so we're going to find out his story and a whole lot of other people that want to talk about this coming up next. Talking about the dysfunction at DCS, a big report has come out shining a light again on the problems at DCS. And you've got kids that are sleeping in the DCS offices, cots and floors and couches. There are also instances where kids are getting and sneaking meth into these offices. And also there is another story, another part of the story where a kid in DS, DCS custody who snuck out with a younger kid and started trafficking the kid. And one of the problems that they mentioned in this report is that there's very little follow up to these problems. I mean, if I'm interpreting the story right, they'll slap these kids on the wrist and then put them back in with the other kids, meaning they could just do the same darn thing all over again. So I'm always – I've been talking about this for a long time, and whenever I take calls on this, people have incredible stories about their experiences with DCS. DCS. And I've got one guy who is a current foster parent. And you were going to tell me you want to remain anonymous for obvious reasons. And you were talking about how because some people are saying that the vetting process for foster parents is overkill. You've actually been through this. I understand why the process to vet foster parents could I guess be considered overkill But you say that it necessary Talk about the process of fostering and how you get approved by the state Well, I mean, you have to go through classes, which isn't a big deal. You go through classes, by their schedule normally takes about six weeks, but I think it's just a couple nights a week. it's been a long time since we took the classes but that you know they come out they do a home study you fill out all these questionnaires things about your childhood the way you were raised how you view your parents your children they talk to them they you know your biological children they talk to a lot of different things your references stuff like that I don't think the vetting process is too tough. I think that, well, I know that in my opinion and from my experience, most of the foster parents that I know that have stopped being foster parents have stopped being foster parents because of the emotional toll, because of the inability to continue to help because of the strain it puts on your own family. Well, let me ask you this question. So how long have you been fostering? Over five years. Over five years. Why did you decide? And by the way, kudos to you. How long have you been? You've been fostering for five years, and how many kids have you taken in? A lot. We've adopted two out of foster care, but we've had probably 60-plus children through our home. That's amazing. That is amazing. I will tell you that, I mean, DCS and the agencies that they have contracted to help with placement, if they have a foster home that is a good foster home, they will fill your house to the brim. The reason these kids are sleeping in these offices is because they don't have anywhere for them to go. Yeah. I mean, and the amount of turnover in the DCS, you know, workforce and in these agencies is ridiculously high. And it's because of the workload, the emotional toll that these workers are going through, the loss of their personal, I mean, like complete loss of their personal life. Right. Because these people are on call. And even though there's an on call person that you're supposed to call for after hours. Those people rarely answer. And, you know, you call the person that you deal with and they work their own call. It's like they're a communication or emergency management agent. So it sounds so. So let me let me ask this. I got a lot of people want to talk about this. But so it sounds like the report on DCS is really demonizing. But when you zoom in with the actual employees that you deal with, the these people are overworked and there's not enough of them. I am certain that there are definitely cases where they are not doing their job and the system is broken and, you know, it's not working. I know that that is the case. I mean, there's that everywhere in everything. Every agency that works is for the government, that's the way it is. but there are a tremendous amount that really, really, really try to help. But, I mean, they can't. Well, let me... They go out to dinner with their family. They can't do anything because, you know, they're getting called for this and that and the other all the time. Yeah. Let me ask you this question. Why do you do it? Ask me whatever. Why do you do it? I am a Christian. And I felt a calling years ago to do it, and my wife did not share that calling. And we went to the annual convention for the Southern Baptist Annual Convention, and they had a speaker there one time that was the director of the Tennessee Baptist Children's Home. and he got up and he talked for about an hour and he went through a slideshow and he did a lot of different things. And then on the way home from that, my wife told me, she said, well, I have that calling. And we took, she signed us up for classes. Mic drop. You ready? Let's do it. hosted by former Navy SEAL Mike Ridland. It's unfiltered. You know, you go to the sound of the gun, bam, you're gone. It's weird. I mean, I've had so many near-death experiences. It's raw. I love this country. I offered my life to serve this nation and protect its people. The question, you know, what's the meaning of life? And to me, it just boils down to one single word, which is purpose. Mic drop. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. And we took the classes and been doing it ever since. And it's, but it's, if you, there is such a need for these kids and teenagers especially because nobody wants them. Right. No, I, listen, I, I get it. That's their, that's their mentality too. Nobody wants them. And they want to, I'm going to do whatever I can to get you out of my life so I don't get attached to you and then you shut down on me and, you know, and then I'm put out again. That's the way these kids operate. And the ones that are new into it that haven't learned that yet or that come from a more loving environment being raised, they're trained by the ones that aren't. And it is absolutely heartbreaking. All right, so last question. I've got like 20 seconds. So would you recommend people become foster parents? Absolutely. Okay, that's number one. Absolutely. Number two, how can people find out more information about how to become a foster parent? There's information everywhere. Just Google how to become a foster parent in Tennessee. All right. Hey, I got to run. I got to run. Thank you for what you do, and thank you for calling in, and thank you for spreading the word about being a foster parent. I think that's great. I got all kinds of people, Joan, that want to talk about this. Leah, Christy and Troy and others. I'm going to get to you coming up next. And Joan, real quick, what is going on in the roads? Super Talk 997. So we're looking at. Sorry, that's my fault. They just kill her. Kill. Not you, Joan. Take the cart down. Joan, what's going on? You've got delays in White's Creek on 24 eastbound side before Old Hickory Boulevard North. That's a crash. The left lane's blocked off. clarksville 24 west before ml king parkway that's a crash scene got a crash as well in capitol view on 40 eastbound at church street traffic every 10 minutes every morning on super talk 99 7 wt i mean listen i like it better when joan does it anyway all right 646 uh weather occasional rain today high of 61 feeling like 58 leah thanks for calling on wtn mount juliet hey Aaliyah, go ahead. Hey, I'm glad for that lead-in because he did a great job. I have a long family experience. I have not fostered. Many family and friends have. And what I would tell people is we just had a lady from an organization called Tennessee Kids Belong encouraging churches to develop what they call rap support training because one of the reasons why they lose foster families is burnout. Like he was saying they on their own and we need twice as many according to this lady that spoke with us foster families as they have right now That why they have 4 kids on the floor because they have 4 in waiting and 4 in place So it's just unbelievable the need. And churches could go to Tennessee Kids Belong. And not only if somebody, if one family in that church wanted to foster, You could develop a team around that person to support that person with food, with meals, with respite care, with play dates for kids, anything to help them survive the hardships of it and thrive and be able to stay foster families. You can also go to organizations like Agape Nashville and get the training. And with that, you will also have the support of that not-for-profit that is completely focused on children and families. And that is where all the people that we know who have ever fostered have gone. They've gotten their training. They've gotten their support. And the children have come from DCS through Agape because they are trying to place these kids through responsible organizations. They cannot do it themselves. I don't like DCS. I have a social worker daughter who refused to work for them because it was total burnout. and you can't do what the child needs because there's not enough resources. Wherever the money's going, it's not going where it needs to be. And so I just would encourage people to pray hard, and if you cannot foster for whatever reason, we're not in a position to do that. Find people who are. Call this organization. Develop these rap training support groups where you can support people you know who foster. It doesn't have to be in your church. Well, Leah, I appreciate it. Leah calling from Mount Juliet, 4618. And Leah, I know that you said that you're not a foster person. Please tell the people that you know that are fosters that we said thank you here at WTN. I know Matt feels very strongly about this situation as well. 4618 DCS pay blows for what they have to do they want you to use your own personal vehicle to drive these kids to court doctors etc a lot of people this is 50 70 and fostering is extremely difficult we did it for two years people that can stay with it are heroes and I absolutely agree with that this This is Christy in Smyrna on WTN. Christy, thank you for calling in. Go ahead. Yes, Dan. I agree with all the prior callers, so I'm not going to go over any of that. But I think that DCS or the state should look at an alternative. In the past, since the early 2000s, there were places like Tennessee Preparatory School and those type of regional type areas that would take in the older children. And it was... Is that, Christy, what we would call like orphanages? Kind of, yeah. But, I mean, it was more of a school situation. The kids got up. They went to school. they were given a normal type of schedule that a lot of times they don't get in their own homes. And these kids are, you know, they're not bad. They're just a lot of them are raised bad. And given the schedule, given consequences, being taught how to take care of themselves, that's what they need when they're teenagers and we don't have anywhere for them to go so of course they're acting up so what so leah then the question i would have is then there's we don't have those facilities now they're building some of these facilities i just don't know if if they're big enough and maybe i'll try to get dcs on the phone but it seems to me that that is what we need to do, which is get, it's almost like prep school a little bit, it sounds like, right? It is, it is. And the students weren't put in like 30 or 40 in a group. They lived in a dorm that would have 12 or 16 students. You know, they were, it was more like a small family. It wasn't an easy way of doing things, but it certainly was more cost effective. and it actually worked to make these kids get through the school system to get their education so that when they actually got out on their own, they could make a living. They had a future. They're not kicked out at 18. They're kicked out when they get out of high school. So if you're 17 and you graduate, you stay until you're 18. But if you're 18 or almost 19 and you still haven't graduated because you might have gotten behind, over the years. Oh, yeah. You, Christy, you bring up a great point. And I interviewed somebody. Pamela first set it up for me. Pamela, if you're listening, who was that musician that I interviewed? There is a musician. I interviewed him, a country star years and years ago. And his thing was trying to help kids who grew up in the foster system. And then just like Christy says, they're essentially, I don't want to say kicked out or thrown out, but they're they're thrown out into the real world. And they they haven't learned what they need to learn to get into the real world, to be able to survive in the real world. And so there's there's been a lot of sort of growing up that they've missed because they've gone from, you know, either institutions or foster families or whatever it is. I mean, it just it is incredibly sad. This is Troy in Nashville on WTN. Hey, Troy, go ahead. Hey, I want to say something. I had an incident where a lady, my cousin, had went and lost her kids, had two kids. And everybody can wait for six weeks. And they had called her and we found out those kids were there and we went to get those kids. Yeah. And we said, hey, we can take those kids into our home. And DCS would not give us an opportunity to take those kids. and those kids stayed into the system until they went to that orphanage and they stayed in the orphanage until they got too old to be there. And they failed those kids because both of them ended up in the system. And we could have helped those kids, but, you know, there are circumstances where if somebody loses their kids or they take those kids from the home, that a family member, if they ask for those kids, DCS will not give them those kids. Well, Troy, okay, so Troy, you bring up a really compelling story. Why is it that they wouldn't give you those kids? Did they tell you why, what the reasoning was? Well, they said, you know, we've got to go through all these programs, you know, but you've got a person that's been arrested. Kids don't have anywhere to go. You want to take them downtown and put them in our office, and we find out and we say, hey, man, I'm a pastor. You know, I've raised two kids. All my kids have went to college. I mean, we had a good income in the home. We showed that we were loving. And we said, we can keep this child. Don't put them in this office. No, this is what we're going to be. It sounds like DCS is a little too, and I wish I could come up with the right word, rigid with these classes. I mean, if you've raised a couple of kids already, I don't know. So you're darned if you do and you're darned if you don't, because if they give kids to a family and they're flexible with the training and then if something horrible happens, then DCS looks really bad. I mean, that's part of the problem. But, Troy, you bring up a very compelling case as to maybe whether or not families have to go through the training. Maybe it's on a case by case basis. And, Troy, I appreciate you sharing your story with us. Jimmy Wayne is the person that I interviewed who grew up in the country star, grew up in the system, and then was kind of thrown out at the age of 18. And I remember that interview, and it was a really good one. So people say Craig Morgan, another country music star, is also big on this topic and a few others. So a lot of people talking about this, and maybe we'll revisit this here at another time. Mike drop. You ready? Let's do it. Hosted by former Navy seal, Mike Ridland. It's unfiltered. You know, when you go to the sound of the gun, bam, you're gone. It's weird. I mean, I've had so many near death experiences. It's raw. I love this country. I offered my life to serve this nation and protect its people. The question of what's the meaning of life. And to me, it just boils down to one single word, which is purpose. Mike drop. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.