“Which Eye?” (w/ Lisa Rinna)

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Starts Saturday 21st March on ITV1 and ITVX. Along with a bunch of other little surprises. So if you're in LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, D.C., New York City, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, or yes, Orlando, Florida, I want to see your gorgeous ass. Go to matrodgersofficial.com or head to my Instagram at matrodgers, though, and hit the link in my bio. Until then, stream the album, get your look together, and get ready to deck the damn halls at a venue near you. Christmas in December, you in my heart. XOXO Santa Boy. Look, man. Oh, I see you. Oh, my. Oh, look over there. Is that culture? Yes. Yeah. Last cultureistas. Ding dong. Last cultureistas calling. It's the day of days. It's the days of our lives. Oh. So can I tell you? Growing up my mom Katrina Rogers was an ABC soap person. So in our house was General Hospital on my children and what was the other one? Oh my god. No, no, no. Passions was amateurs later and NBC and also passion had like witchcraft vampires and witch pretend. Yeah, yeah, super natural. Yeah, I'm forgetting the third one. But those those what is it? One life to live. One life to live. One life to live. So yeah. And so my intro to our guest was not so, it was actually red carpet and hosting, which as we now know. Yes. I mean, now they're really dipping into like an interesting talent pool. We'll get into this later, but it's like Gabby went in doing the red carpet of the VMAs. Slate, of course. Of course, from it. That is a hard job. And very hard. This is hard work and we will get into this, into the nitty gritty. That is a really good first exposure, my first exposure. Yes. Veronica Mars. The amazing Harry Harry. Harry Hamlin. And that was when I knew I was like, there's something about this actor. She is amazing. It's one of those, it's true pop culture iconography because it's not just one thing. It's so many different things. Obviously our guest is a beloved, memorable fixture from the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. And now has like, I feel had this incredible new win. It's like a fashion icon, which always has been a fashion icon. But it's truly walking in motion now. And I think I could call it the highlight of our awards show. I think the last culture, it's those cultural awards, particularly one moment, all of it. But you know in the moment I'm talking about it. There were several highlights, much like Kelly Clarkson's hair during the first season of American Idol. You really just went there. And by went there, I mean, showed that we are millennial gay guys. But there were several highlights. I think one of the most stunning streaks of the show was our guest. Truly giving an embodied performance. This is where you go, that's right, she's an actor. She knows how to play in a heightened reality like this. I thought Demi Moore was on stage in this audience. I thought Demi Moore was like that. Many people thought to me more on stage. We had to make a big show out of announcing our guest. So that the audience could tell what was happening. I mean, I think there was just a lot of discourse and chatter the next day and in the weeks after about that being a particular highlight of the show. Absolutely. She's an icon, she's a fashion legend, she's an acting legend. We love her. She's a patron of theater because we will get into this. This is our first meeting. Yeah. Oh, yes, of course. You told me I heard about this immediately. I'm not going to have the way. And podcaster as well. Let's not talk about the husband. I listened to the pod. It's presented by Deer Media alongside, yes, Harry Hamlin. They continue to be a very rich duo in love and life in podcasting and more and more. We're so thrilled to see you here. Everyone give it up for Lisa Rennah. Lisa Rennah. Yes. We're so happy. That was so fun to just sit and listen to. Well, I can't have that every day. I would just walk around like a queen. You should walk around like a king. You should. But the thing is there is so much to talk with you about about the impact that you've had in the entertainment industry, the roles that you've played, both in terms of acting and in terms of functioning in this industry. You are truly what it means to be like a Hollywood mainstay. Well, thank you. I certainly have survived for a very long time. The survived is the word you used. I've been around. I think I've been in the business now 36 years. Wow. The word survived implies like peril and it implies danger. That's true, but this business can be like that. Sure. It can. And I feel like I feel like I'm still here, you know, because I am. I'm still here. And I've gotten to do so many great things. Thanks to you, my last great thing I got to do was truly one of the highlights. I'm not even kidding. It won't be the final thing. No, it's certainly going to be the final thing unless I'm dead. No, wait a minute. Listen up with you. Listen up with you. Words like you are welcome back. Oh great. Fantastic. Oh you're never going to get rid of me at this point. Well, that was so much fun because again, I think when I went to do my reality, stint for eight years, this is a very long time. Yeah, you were there for a while. People tend to forget that I'm an actor. Yes. That's how I began. That's what I am. So to go and play those characters with dream come true is really fun. Thank you so much. And I will say, like when, when I think people think you're like a little bit of a roar shock, it's like it's like you think of Lisa Rinne and probably everyone that watches pop culture may think of a different thing. Is that your experience? That's it. And of late, mostly is that damn M&M. That at least one of the more you're feelings, you're honest feelings about the M&M because I imagine it's complicated. It's complicated only because I think it's so weird because I literally did that campaign 15 years ago. Right. So with Joy Fattone, who else was that? Joy Fattone and I were doing the red carpet for the TV guide network. Now who thought of that casting? Sure. Yeah, but that's what I mean. That's probably when I'm like, you remember you on a carpet. I remember you on a red carpet like interviewing. That was like the Lisa Rinne I first. All right. Well, that Lisa Rinne was with Joey Fattone on the red carpet. They came to us. Payed us a good chunk of money from what I remember. That's what I remember. Do you want to be an M&M? Wouldn't you want to be? Absolutely. Yes, we would. You would be like, yes. But so it does feel like an honor then because I have to look at that in a amount to that is iconic. Oh, so I mean, back then I thought it was iconic and that was before social media. It was before everything, before the phone's really. So the fact that it came back 15 years later on TikTok is what I can't figure out. Yeah. It's not up to us. It's not up to us to know. It's not. It's sort of. It isn't I guess. This thing lately that I think is happening, which is it takes one person with not even a big platform with the right platform to say I want I even feel like that a little bit with the culture or it's like some of the polls like from like new culture and old culture. We feel like we're rolling the dice. Like it's like are people going to remember this reference? And then they do. They do. And it suddenly gets life, you know, but I do think that's what we're living in right now. Like because the Lisa Rina M&M is an iconic image, if the right person puts that forth, we can expect in 2025 going forward that that might just dominate. Exactly. But you don't think I mean, but you don't think it's an accident though because it's like on the one hand, there's something totally, let's say random about the M&M coming back. But then on the other, it's this very intentional thing that you're in control over, which is I'm going to show up to Fashion Week. I'm going to dress in like this Balenciaga to commemorate the Balenciaga of like the last few, whatever years. You are making choices in your own life. And then on the parallel track is like, oh, the internet just dug up this thing from 15 years ago. You know what I mean? Yes. Or we're still playing the Amsterdam episode of Housewives on the bus. You know what I mean? Yes. It will keep it will keep working in tandem with whatever you decide to do. And thank you very much. And thank God. Yeah. I guess, right? I think that's the beauty of it all. And it's so funny to see my kids reaction. What do they think? What do the girls think? You know what? Can you imagine having me as your mom? I mean, you probably both can, but I know my mom is into similar to you. And I, I went back and watched your first episode in season five. I was just like, let me like refresh the back to the beginning. Wow. Did you? Just in preparation for this episode. Wow. And the first, I don't know if you remember this. The first moment of the family is Harry brings in a snake from the garden and Amelia and and Delilah are like, oh, get that out. And it's this beautiful moment of family. And then in your talking, you're like, I'm never happier than when all four people are under one another. That's the truth. Like you don't feel the way that way. Absolutely. Absolutely. Has not changed. Nothing's really changed. To be honest, I think now that they're older, they're just seeing everything is being sent to them. And you know, as mom, you don't go, oh, here, you guys want to go watch days of our lives or Melrose plays or whatever. And so they're getting it sent to them now. And I think they get a kick out of me, which is good. You want your kids to get a kick out of you. Of course. Also, it's because they're probably now reaching the age or approaching that time when like they can now see you from when you were similar age to them. Yes. Because there's a lot of that, especially days of our lives. I mean, that's the same age that Delilah is right now. Wow. I did that. So it really, truly is, it's fascinating. And it's been so fun. I'm so grateful. I mean, look what I've gotten to do for so many years. Yeah. And it changes all the time. It's because you know, you know what the thing is, and this is why we were so enthusiastic about having you at the Culture Awards and we're so excited to have you here is because you know you're always going to bring fun. And I feel like we try to center a lot of fun in what we do. And I feel like when you arrived, you brought such a great energy to the show and such different specific energies to each of those moments. And it all ended up in that moment of law, roach giving you the outfit of the year award for Lisa Ritter, whenever the fuck she wants. I mean, come on. That to me was the highlight of the show. That was your speech. Like your speech was the highlight of the show because I felt like it's and it happening on Bravo too. I thought was so special. Wow. How about that? Yeah. Like that. Wow. How about that? You know what's funny? Edit. And obviously, you know, you were there. The show was long. We recorded for about three hours. Yes. But I said, you know what? All parts of this Lisa Ritter speech have to be there because I was like, thank you. People have to understand this is going to really resonate with an audience that did no lowest, that did see the girls grow up. That is going to be happy to see you like winning one of the final awards of the night, even though they're silly awards. Are you ready? I feel like it means something for you to happen on that network. It certainly did and I didn't expect it. This kind of just came about, you know, and I was like, yes, yes, yes, I'll do anything. And then you came up with the skits that I would do. Like I had no idea what I was going to do. I was just like, yes, I'll do it. I don't care what I do. I'll do it. She's walking out of the year. I will do whatever. And so the fact that it's then on Bravo, how full circle. Yeah. And I wasn't even ready for that full circle. Do you know what I mean? I came around and I was like, oh, maybe I am ready for it. Yeah. What were the misgivings about it? Were there any? Well, yes, there were a few misgivings because my last moment on Bravo was not my finest hour. It did not feel great to me. It just felt just murky. I wouldn't even say chaotic. It was just like, wait, so we can't, like as an audience, I'll speak for us. Like we didn't know how to feel about it because we're like, well, we don't, none of us can know what really happened about what we don't have to talk about it. But it's like, there's no resolution for the audience or for you. Yeah. But in the way that we see Lisa Brinne of this. Yeah. True, wonderful, prevalent figure in the Bravo verse. And then you just kind of like go away. Yeah. And it's, there's a feeling of like unease there. Yeah. And so I, I'm so grateful that you came back and did the show because it just felt like there was a period on it, finally. That's what it gave me to be honest with you, to be able to go back in that way in a, in a winning way. Yeah. You know, I felt like a winner as opposed to being booed on, you know, the stage of probably. Yeah. God, wait. I have to say I couldn't believe that that had happened. And we weren't there for that one. But, but that felt really like, and we, you know, we talk often times about how like in times when it feels like you can't. It's like with the things you love the most sometimes when you're a fan of something are the things that you like feel you can lash out on a little bit. Oh, now, now, now, for sure, I was going to say it feels even more intense. So almost feels like they weren't booing you as a human. They were booing you as an extension and be to be part of the show. But still you're up there a human being being booed. But I, you know, it's funny because I, I actually took it as a good thing when it happened because to me, even though I'm Lisa Rena on Beverly Hills Housewives, I'm a character. I mean, you're not really getting to see the full me. Like you see this much of me. Yeah. And you see me reacting off of other women being crazy or throwing things at me, things that are not necessarily in my wheelhouse in my day to day life. Yeah. So when I went out at first, it's funny because I was standing in line with Erica. Yeah. And the other idea that was going to happen, she says to me, they may boo you. I turned around and I was like, what do you mean? She goes, they might boo you just get ready. I was like, okay, I didn't even think about it. So when they did, it wasn't like such a shock because she had literally just said it to me two seconds earlier. And my reaction was like, okay, cool. In the back of my mind, because the wrestlers I used to watch on TV, the good ones got booed. Yeah, exactly. I was going to bring up wrestling. It is like wrestling. No, because there is like some of the conflicts are there's a layer of stage to them. But it's real. It's real. It's real, honey. It's real. It's not like the undertaker, the rocks, Stone Cold Steve Austin walking out there. Exactly. It's like it's Lisa Renett's, Erica Jane, these are people who and then like the seasons that like proceed from that also are informed by these moments. Like Brava Khan, this is what happened. Yeah. And the difference here, the veil of between reality and the heightened version of reality is very thin. It's very thin. And like that's, but that must be, that must affect you in some way. Well, it's hard because if you come into it as an actor like I did, it's different if you come into it and you've really never done anything before. Right. Like say, to eat. Right. She comes into it. She's done many other things, but she never been on camera showing her real life. I think it's easier for someone like to eat than it is actually for me. Right. To come in. Yep. And I can see why in the very beginning, because you know, I was up for the show in the very beginning. Yeah. And Andy said, no, no actors. And I can see why he said that. Yeah. Because as an actor, you know, we view cameras and directors and producers and everybody differently than if you're doing a reality show. Yeah. And I'll never forget, I had a meeting with everybody because I wasn't so sure about it at first. And the producer came in and he said, I'm just going to give you some advice. And think out loud. You need to think out loud. Wow. And I'm like, what the fuck does that mean? But as as an actor, I went, oh, I need to think out loud. Well, I certainly did. Yeah. I'm saying like, externalizing was not an issue for you. But in my real life, I never said how I felt like I mean, I grew up not being somebody that was expressive in that way. Expressive in that way. So at first it was hard for me. And then of course it just. And then it wasn't almost liberating there for a while. It's kind of like, because I remember when I started watching housewives, because there was a time in my life where I was saying just the one thing I know I'll never do is I'm not going to watch the real housewife. And then it was like, I remember one time it was literally I was just like, it just doesn't feel like it's for me. And I put on, I believe the first franchise I watched was New York. And I put it on and I was just like, wait, I feel like I get this. And what I really felt like improved about me from watching it was, I wasn't scared to be like, hey, I have an issue with what you just did. And I want to talk about it. Exactly. It actually got me to not become a more confrontational person, but it made me understand that conflict can actually not all the time as we see on the show, but oftentimes be resolved and make people better and make friendship stronger. For example, when you were first on the show, you and Doreet just could not see eye to eye until you had that conversation in the wheel and then wheel, that double wheel, weird thing in the Vegas. And then it felt like you guys never really had a major issue again. No, and that's the beauty also of that show. If you can work through things, which of course in real life, you don't do a whole lot. Right. Because you're not being forced to. You're not being forced to and being forced to, I have to tell you, it was so uncomfortable. I am somebody who does not like conflict if you can believe it. No, I can't. It really, it did help me in many ways. It also helped me in my acting. Yeah. For sure, because you really have to say how you feel. And play objective. Think about how do I feel right now and express it. That's hard as a real person. Of course, but I think what you innovated in the show across all the franchises is I think you were the first housewife to break the fourth wall. And to break a glass, no. And to break a glass. Yeah, but that guy you did. God, you did to make the fourth wall and say, I'm here to make good TV. That is the actor in you. Uh-huh. Well, that's true. And I can't help that. I was there to make good TV. I wasn't there to make best friends. I wasn't there to get a fan base to love me. Right. I'm not one of those people that go on Twitter and find out what everyone's saying and then skew that so that I don't be, you know, don't have horrible people. But it's you and I, I mean, starting at the same time, which was interesting. And he's like, no actors and then he brings on to it. At the same time, which was quite brilliant to soap actors at the, I mean, we both came from soap innocent. Yeah. We love Dilean too. I, we miss her. I used to connect it with aliens. I do. I mean, I talked to her from time to time, but you know, you don't work with people again. Of course. You lose that little moment. But when I see her, of course, I just, I, she's one of the special ones. Yes. So one of the things that I, um, I feel like is a symptom of being in this business is those things happen, right? You book a job, you become close with people. And then as a result of the job ending, you do move on. You lose touch or you make new, you know, friends and, you know, relationships and new jobs and that purpose. It's so different in what we do. But for a show like Housewives where it is, you're performing as friends, but also it is real and you are real friends. Have you kept those friends like are you still close with the, not to say your allies on the show, but the people who like had your back on the show? I am. Yeah. Like this weekend I went to Kyle Richards daughter's Alexia, what Alexia's wedding. Oh, and she invited me herself. Alexia invited me and I've known her since she was, oh my God. Young girl. A young girl. Yeah. And to me, even though I don't see those women all the time, I will go and support in love, in, in friendship, in all of that. Because whether we're trauma bonded or what we are, there is a bond. There is a bond there. And I love a handful of those women. I think you all know which ones. I don't even think I have to tell you which ones. I really do. And I have dinner with them and, you know, they did want to film me and I said, no, I did say no to the filming at the wedding because I didn't feel that that was what it was about. I was there. Oh, they were shooting the wedding. They shot it sort of a little bit. I mean, they had producer cameras there, which you got right, right, right, right, iPhones on steroids. Sure, sure, sure. You know what I mean? But I felt, no, you're not going to get me back that way. Yeah. And I'm going to go and support my friend and her daughter and my, my other friends at this wedding. Lovely. Yeah, lovely. So I felt good about that saying, no, I'd love to come, but no, you can't shoot me. That's what you're in control. That's what you were saying earlier. I'm going to show you this much and you get, it gets to be on your terms. Now, see, when you're doing that show, it really doesn't get to be on your terms, you know? I mean, does it get to be on your terms on Saturday night live? No, we're requested on weeks where you're like, I've got nothing. The well is bone dry. I still have to write a sketch that probably won't be received well in that second, that like docs against me. It's, you know, it's that kind of thing. This is like, I want to talk about soap acting. Oh, because this is you, you guys have to be off book on Reams of Paper of Life. 40 pages sometimes of dialogue. 40. I would have 20 to 40 pages of dialogue. A day. How long did you do three years of days? Three years. Yeah. So that's first job really. That's, oh, that's Olympic. It's Olympic, but it trains you, you know, if you don't get the chance to go to Juliard or, you know, Yale or these, you get your education. Ah, honey, you get your education. You learn how to be professional because you've got 40 people waiting for you. You can't fuck around. Nope. You're like, you better know your lines. And most of the time, I would be working with people that have been on the show for years and years and years that used to, you know, kind of like a few cards because that's how after being on the show for 25 years, you gotta, it's very hard to learn those lines. Of course. Of course. So to learn how to act with somebody who's looking over here while you're here was very difficult. I could never do the cue cards, so I had to memorize my lines. Got it. I mean, there is, there's a common thing among soap actors where Sarah Sherman said this when she went on general hospital, she was like, can you guys cry on cue? All the actors go, which eye? Which eye? They do. True. Yes. And that's why I do. Oh, did you all could cry out? I should say you want left or right? Oh, which I is title of which no seriously so cut to when I had the moment with the bunny on housewives. Oh my God. Did you which I hear no no because I never could do it. It just happened. Huh accidentally. I could never make that happen. But I was so proud because I did it. But I didn't really do it. But I did it. No, because you were living it. You did it for the camera. That is. I think it's got to it's top five of all Bravo images. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is just you glaring at her with that teal running going. Telling you the genius of their editing at times. Oh, come on. I mean, come on and the crackling of the cellophane. Oh, yeah. We actually just every time we go into the clubhouse, we've been lucky to go many times, but this last time, everyone does where we where we went to go promote the culture awards. I was like, not only am I looking at the bunny, I'm holding the bunny. She does crackle. She crackles and the way that they did that in the editing. It's so good. You know, I didn't plan that. I went and got a present. Yeah. And instead of wrapping it, they were like, do you want it in cellophane with a bow? Yeah. Like there's no planning to it. That's the butterfly effect. That's what that is the magic. Anytime that can happen, that's the magic. Yeah. You can't plan it. You're doing something actually good for somebody. Yeah. Or trying to. Yeah. And then it turns into this meme that is never going to go away. Really? Hunts, the GC. I'm whispering because that's the queen. Social media is about time for my ASGM or series. So I'm recording this on my phone and then I'm going to use Canva to edit and upload it. Oh, sorry, babes. I'll make that whisper when I edit it. Anyways, Canva makes social media edits so easy. I'll upload this in a minute. Canva, make everything iconic. How do I stop recording, Darren? So because I always feel like whenever we have someone on the show that's gone through the reality show process, one of the things I think is the most interesting is how it feels to see yourself edited into a character because they do have to do that. And of course it's you, but it is there are edges they have to give you depending on what they need season to season. So leaving housewives out of it because you move on from housewives and now we're going to see you on the traders. I wonder about like what it was like to obviously have that put to you and be like, look, here's an opportunity to do the traders. You know it's a fun show, but it's another opportunity for us to edit you. So can you talk through what the process was just without even getting into right now what happened, getting that offer and feeling like, okay, am I engaging? Well, first I said I do not want to do it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, why? Well, because I watched it and I thought it's enjoyable to watch. I don't want to do it. Stressful. Is that why? And reality. I just wasn't quite ready when I first, when they were first like dangling it. I was like, I love to watch it. Don't want to do it. But then, then people started to say, oh my god, I think you'd be so great on it. Oh my god. Have you really watched it? And I don't only watch it a little bit of it. My agents, my agents, all those people are like, I think you should do it. I think it'll be the greatest thing for you. And here's why X, Y and Z. So I kept getting a lot of that. Yeah. A lot of that. And listen, it's not like I don't, I will listen if it starts to make sense to me. Right. Right. And I can start to go, okay, I authentically can understand that. And so because it's won the Emmy, Alan just won, I think his second he did. Emmy. So you know, I know how that kind of stuff works. So I'm no dummy. It's a point. It's a piece of reality. Right. Yeah. It's different. It's a gameplay too. It's, yeah. And it's a game. And so I did a lot of talking and research and asking questions. And they were very open with me at peacock if you need to talk to us, you know, because I wasn't sure. Yep. What really made me go, you know what? I'm going to do it is that it's a game. It's not real. So you're playing a game, which again, in my mind is like, I can be an actor playing a character in a sense. It doesn't have to be like, I'm not going to go in and be mean to somebody. Right. For real, it's a game. You might have to be accusational. You might have to try to trick someone into saying something, but it's a game. And I didn't see any cruelness or meanness in a sense that you can see it in the house way franchise. I didn't see it. Interesting. Because then is the gameplay taking pressure off of you as an actor to go, I don't have to worry about making good TV in the same way that I did on housewives. Well, you know, unfortunately, I always worry about making. I always think about me. That's unfortunate. That's unfortunate. That's not unfortunate. You know, it's in my mind. It is an unfortunate, but that's how my brain works. Yes. It's not like I'm trying to make good TV. The producing accusation is not correct. Right. You're just thinking about how to be entertaining. Exactly. Because I'm an entertainer. At the end of the day, I consider myself an entertainer. Yes. And you are that. Right. Yes. That's what I do. So going in was terrifying. I have to be honest. It was terrifying because number one, I'm terrible at playing games. I'm just not a good game player. Game night is not your night. No, I'm good at Uno. That's it. So the bar's low, guys. It's a pretty hard game to master, but yeah, I'm pretty good at Uno, but that's it. So I'm not a master game player. I'm not a gamer. Yeah. Right. Which is usually the shows very stacked with gamers and those gamers know how to game. And this season, this upcoming season, you look at the cast like they did pick some fearsome survival players of survivor. That's right. Yes. Like big time winners of big brother. So I think that is the part that scared me. It was like, I'm going to suck, but okay, why not? Let's go try it. And again, I always think if you can get a good piece of real estate on television, take it, take it, you take it. And that's what Lisa Rina thinks like. Yeah. This was a great piece of real estate offered to me. Yeah. Take it or leave it and I took it. That's basically it because I know I can I can do something with good real estate. I can't do that much with shitty real estate, but I can do something with good real estate. Of course, it's an investment. And honestly, you must have known Alan, right? You know, you would never know. I don't know all these years. No. Wow. He's doing great. Oh, he's doing it. I am obsessed with him. Talk about the most professional, most awesome performer shows up. Does his job on like wow. Yeah. He's looking at the fabric of that show too. Well, yeah, he produces it also. Yeah. It matters to him. Yes. I can't talk much about it. I'd love to. But I was so impressed with him. Yeah. I don't even know if I can say this, but I'm going to say it. Yeah. When we do the round table, when Alan comes in and it's such a big deal and they they pipe it all up and they get you all going, he stands in the back the entire time just standing there. You don't see him on camera, but sometimes that goes on for an hour and hour and a half. Yeah. He's standing there listening. I thought that was pretty impressive. You know what I mean? Like I think he probably takes it seriously as the performer because it's like, he knows it's his job to he's the master of ceremonies. He's a man that is and to speak not dissimilar to his iconic role as the MC and cabaret. He knows what it means to set tone. And does he set that tone, honey? And I think you had to I felt that you have to rise to that occasion. Also, yeah, in your own way, like everyone brings their own thing to it. Right. And that is what was exciting. I mean, I think you hearing you talk about him, you would be an incredible host of a show like that would be fun. It would be fun. Now that I've watched great, a great host do it. Yeah. Because boy, does he deserve those Emmys? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And you're in the drag race family. You guessed it. What was that like season four? Three for three on logo. On logo. I missed it when it was on logo. I missed it. I missed it being a loop commercial. Right. You know what I mean? Like there it used to really be for the community. I mean, at the time, nobody knew what it was. Exactly. And of course, I was like, you bet you'll do it. Yeah, I'll go to the drag queen competition. Ever, but I'd never seen anything like it. Same thing. The real estate, primary, real estate on TV. And like you, you will do good with that real estate, no matter. And like that must mean that you thought our little show was was the same. I knew it. Very honored. Of course, I knew it. Look at it. It's the two of you. I was stopped. No way. True. I'm no dummy that way. Stop it. I know those things. You know those like, oh, quickly, I have to say, I caught up with Eric Nam recently. And he said that he had a fabulous time. He really likes you. I said, how is Lisa? He said, at least, is very good. And he, he was very tight-liped about it as well. You gotta be. That's part of it. Like whenever, like, so I adore him. He's wonderful. I adored everybody, actually. So I liked everybody. It did, but he's the best. He's very special. Like a good cast because even the housewives, they had chosen. I got really excited because there's been a couple of housewives that I've been saying for a while would be really good. You've been one of them. Candace was one of them. Yeah. Love Candace. Love Candace. Just like there was a really good, vibade energy around it. But I just wanted to ask because another big opportunity with this show is the fashion. And now you are, you are, you know, an icon in this regard. So how long were you planning? Looks how long did you have to plan looks? You have, I had a while. Yeah. I had a while. I thought about it for a long time because I, okay, you've got Alan. Yeah. Yeah. Alan is the king of the looks. Absolutely. He is, he's it. Yeah. So I thought long and hard about it. I could have brought fashion, Rene and I could have brought Katura, Rene and I could have brought all of that. I didn't bring any of that. Okay. Wow. I guess we have to, well, you're going to have to wait and see. It's like a vibe that I put together or that we put together that just felt like it worked. We had a fitting and we just tried all this stuff on and we just created outfits and we created a vibe. There is a traders vibe. A move forward. Sure. Yeah. There is nothing that you've ever seen. Wow. Actually. Oh, that's so exciting. I mean, so I have to imagine that you and your stylist, it must be the most fun. It is, it's the most fun. I love fashion and expressing myself that way more than anything besides acting because I can play characters. I can have so much fun and I'm not afraid. I'm really not afraid in fashion and I don't know where that comes from. I really don't know why I take the risks that I do much more than most women would do, especially even most women at my age. They just don't, they do the same thing. They don't embody something different. Well, they're afraid. Right. It's just, it's fear. It's safer to like stay in your safe, you know, lane. Yeah. I'm like, fuck that. I want to just blow it out of the water. Yeah. I want to do everything and I've had the time of my life. So it's fun every time. It's different. It's just different every time. You can tell you're having fun. So you like that in high school. Like what, what was your, what was your like, sort of, or your vibe in like high school and being a young person? I wanted so badly to be that in high school, but I grew up in a very, very small town in Mayor of Medford, Oregon. And I was vilified for doing it. Like I did it one time and I was so bullied that I was scared to death to do it again. So I went back to like my, you know, short shorts and do you remember what it was? You were exactly. I know exactly what was it. All right. I got my first Vogue magazine at 16. I forget who was on the cover. I should remember that, but there was a picture inside a girl wearing a sweater dress, a burgundy sweater dress, buttons down the back. I don't think anyone had ever seen that. Sure. Brown, suede pumps. Yeah. Back in 19. You guys I wore that. It went down to San Francisco. We went shopping. I literally found that outfit. I wore it and no, ma'am. Uh-uh. Never again. So they were threatened. Well, they were scared. They didn't know. I mean, I look like I'm free to that because if she's rolling the dice, I might have to roll the dice and I'm not ready to roll the dice. Oh, no, no, whatever it was. It was too soon, too early, too much, but it started then. It started even maybe before that, I think. So then you withdraw. I would throw. Yes. At what point do you venture back out? Well, let's see. Not too far, not too far from now. I mean, it hasn't been that, you know, think about it. Housewives, I was still pretty safe. In Housewives, I started with the wigs and wearing some. Because there's a lot of people on it. It did start to become more brink glam on vacation. Well, Eric, Jane showed up. Definitely. Once Eric showed up, we were like, and then Jaree shows up. We were like, yeah, you can't. They forced us. But they forced all of us to step up. That's when it happened. It affected all the franchises. It did. It really did. So then my eyes opened up and I thought, oh, and then I started wearing wig and then forget it. Then it was just like, this is way more fun than doing the same thing I've always done. You have one of the best spaces for wigs ever. You say you transform. I'm always going to be on record saying one of the worst because it's still me. You can still tell that it's me. It works though really well. It does. It does. It does. It's like, I'm wearing a wig and especially a mustache. The mustache transforms me. You become sort of dumb top bow in the mustache, which we all appreciate. We say that again, dumb. Dom top bow in. Dom top bow in. I got it. Yeah. Yeah. I just flow it down. It's really a lot of anyways. But basically like the wig of it all, like does it. It looks really good for you. It doesn't change you when you when you look like that. Does it change you? slightly. But I'm saying there is something trans formative when you. It's true. I agree. You know, I agree. I look at myself like who is that? Which I love. Yes. I love because I want to be more than one Lisa Rennah. There should be many. And there are. And there are. Like they're all over the place. You can pick which one you want. Even Eminem for Christ's sake. Exactly. Well speaking of characters, we were so excited when we found out what the culture that made you say culture was for you was. We found out in advance this time. So now we'll put it to you and we'll get into it. Lisa Rennah, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you? Dynasty. Oh, and it's such a perfect. Dynasty. Dynasty. Can I say that answer ties together everything about you? All of it. All of it. Okay. There you go. There you go. Right there. Do you know what I mean? I do. I absolutely do that. Change my life. Soaps fashion. Like like being a like housewife and quote unquote fighting. Yep. Grab you know cat fighting. All of it. Who knew that that was going to even be my destiny when I was watching it. But you think about it. But to talk us through the encounter with it at first, whatever memories you have of just like tuning into that show. I remember it was so life altering. Yeah. Coming from the small town in Medford, Oregon. And seeing these iconic women. The glamor crystal and Alexa. Alexa. Alexa. I was going to say Alexa. Yeah. Yeah. Crystal. Dominic Dominic Dominic Devaro. Come on. Diane Carroll. It was just so visually exciting. And then what they got to do. And the emotions and everything they were as women, we'd never seen anything like it. I know. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It felt like this like operatic thing where you have a Lexus standing on a balcony and like showing the fucking documents, you know, or was like Alexis and the documents or Alexis and Diane Carroll like saying, oh, champagne is burnt. The champagne is burnt. It's so burned in the bottle. And the outfits, the glam, like we had never seen anything like it embodied such fabulousness. Right. That it was an escape. It was a challenge. It was, it was life. And you knew it was a high-end reality that it was not on this planet because I'm going to say as someone who grew up there, it took place in Denver. That's right. Because it took place in Denver. No one in Denver looked like that. Of course. No one had hair. But here's what I'll say. When you don't know, you believe it. You believe it. Like when they say in Denver, because I'm from Long Island, I know anything about Denver really until we met. You just bought that as a glamorous place. I think because you see the mountains in your mind's eye. You know what I mean? It's like you sort of think of it as color. Right. And if you thought ask them, we didn't even know what ask them was that. But it was an event. It took place in Aspen that I would believe it. They get a lot of real estate from I think people not knowing the difference between Denver and Aspen. I think so too. I think. And leave it to Aaron Spelling. I mean, really? Come on. Look what he's given us. But so then like when you, and I just keep going back to this clip because I think it is really defining for you in a way that is powerful. Like when you think of making good TV, like that's what you think of. You think of Dynasty because that is the formative television. And it's also what I want to see, I think. Yes. You know, deep down, I want to see another dynasty. Like that's the escapism that I think if housewives can get back to that, it's become a little bit mean. Sure. Well, do you know when it got closest in them in recent memory? And we talk about this scene all the time is when you and Denise sat down at the end of that season. And I know this was a tough season. And I know that like this is probably a relationship that was meaningful to you at one point. And that makes it hard. Hard hard. But you guys really knew what your assignment was on when you sat down on that couch. And she said, you're playing dirty. And you said, oh, you're so angry. I mean, just the two of you were, were you were doing that. And as a viewer, it's true. That must have been a weird thing because it's like, here you are. And she's obviously like, you know, has a storied career in her own right. And like came from, you know, similar projects. And then you're both on this show. It's a different five is a different flavor. But you're sitting there and you're on this couch. And you guys are both looking incredible and you're looking at each other in the eyes and you're doing chess game. And so it's like, you're getting to actualize this thing, but it's also personal. Exactly. It made it so difficult. Complicated. Super complicated. It's one thing if you're playing a character, you can go home. I was home. So I was sitting my living room. But you know, that's what was so complicated. And that scene went on for good two and a half hours. You saw how much of it. Yeah. I don't even know. Really, really complicated. You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't wish working with any of my friends again. Yeah. In a situation like that. Right. Because I don't think it behooves anyone. It didn't serve any of us. Right. I don't think ultimately know. Ultimately know. It's better if you don't know people. Yeah. Of course they want you to know people. So I feel that that's sad. Right. That we get into that situation on that show. And again, I go to, you know, I know how to make a good show. And that's my, I'm going to do that. Yeah. And then if your friendship gets in the way of that, which you've seen mine has a few times, it's just really sad. Yeah. Totally. At the end of the day. I mean, this is where like the boundaries start to, you know, be so undefined. But the corollary to that is that you are able to have this beautiful, loving, wonderfully collaborative relationship with Harry now. Where you guys have a podcast. But that's how you know, like, it's, there's no mechanism that's like flawed within you. It's like you know how to have a meaningful, loving relationship with someone that you work with with Harry. Yes. And it's just, it's, it's disappointing when that doesn't work out. But that's life, baby. You know, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't. And you can never be in someone's head. Like, I always sometimes think like, oh, I wonder if they walked away from that scene thinking, we just nailed that. Yeah. Even though whatever. But like, it's definitely wasn't that. Yeah. No. No. So. And then obviously over time things reveal themselves. And it's like, you never really do know what people are going through, which is, you know, a sad reality about all of that. Yeah. Truly. What I love about you and Harry's relationship is that it feels incredibly authentic through the screen. And now also on the podcast. Because on the podcast, you can just listen. I listened to the episode when you would just come back from, from traders. And I was like, listening. And I was like, I don't know this to be true. But I was like, I bet she's not telling him what happened in, like, even behind closed doors. Oh, not at that point. I he hadn't heard anything. Yeah. Yeah. You have to be careful too. Yeah. Of course. Like, how much, because he watches it also, because he doesn't want to hear about everything. Yeah. It also doesn't translate. Yeah. It doesn't translate very well when you, when you're not there, when your partner's not there and you've gone through a really intense experience. Because this is an, it's intense. I think anybody that you talk to that's gone to play that game. You said that was the hardest thing you've done. You believe that? It's challenging. Yeah. It's super, super, super challenging for me. You know what you're getting with a wedding. Wedding hats. A baby in a waistcoat crying throughout the vows. Themed tables. Awkward best man's speech. The plus one. Hello. People dancing in a circle. Ruined rental suit. Sometimes in life, you just know what you're getting, like a luxury bed and a great night's sleep. You know what you're getting with Premier in. I feel like the traders is like, it's going to be so exciting and I'm just like so excited for it. But just to talk about the podcast a little bit more, because I really do feel like you and Harry are like such a stammatast of time thing. And what I really love about you guys is it does feel like still to this day. You're like into each other. Yeah. I would say we are. I would say after 33 years. It's not crazy. What was it? What was it? What was the vibe at first? Because he's Harry. I mean, he's Harry Hamlin. He was Harry Hamlin at first and I was I was just starting. And so I was a little bit starstruck when I first met him. Well, of course. You know, it was like it's Harry Hamlin. Yeah. I think people of our generation don't really understand the Harry Hamlin. He was like, he was a big deal. He was like, he was like a Brad Pitt-ish time. Yeah. I mean, he was the, you know, on a huge show that was watched by 30 million people. You know, LA Laws was watched by 30 million people. There are three networks at the time. Yeah. So it was this huge show. He'd been the sexiest man alive. He'd been in Clash of the Titans. He was really a big deal. And I was just like, oh, no, no, no, no, I just didn't even see myself in that position. Yeah. At all. So it took a minute. And he had just been divorced. Just getting divorced. So that's not a real like, oh, yeah, I want that. Sure, sure. So then what scared of it? Where was like the initial sort of like the courtship? The courtship. Well, it was all fucked up, really. That's why it's so interesting that we ended up staying together because it wasn't like love at first sight. It wasn't like it was complicated. It was fraught. It was fraught. And it took time. I mean, we didn't get married for five and a half years. Now, is that because it was, it was happening at a bizarre time in Hollywood. Is this like small town is like is no, no, it was just he was fucked up from his marriage. Yeah. Just got out of it. Timing wasn't great. I mean, been married twice. You don't want to get married again. Yeah. Like I wasn't the stereotypical mother archetype. Sure, sure. He usually would go for. So at first, he was like, well, you're not what I'm used to. So it was challenging. We did not come right together. We fell in love. It took time. We became friends first. Like he tried to get me to go to Aspen for Christmas. And I said, no, yeah, I was like too serious. I don't know you. Yeah, I'm going to go home to my parents in Oregon. Yeah. I mean, how most women would go to Aspen? Like could have been good for me. Sure. I bet that made him want you more. Maybe. I don't know, but it was authentic to me. I was just like, ew, I don't really know this guy. I mean, he was cute. He's gorgeous. Yes. But yet I was leery at first. I was a little, you drove a Porsche. Yeah. And he was a little too like. Austin T. Shiss maybe. Well, he was slick and he was gorgeous. Yeah. And he was a big star at the time. And I just wasn't used to it. I was just like, I don't know. And then I got to know him. He called me every day for two weeks while he was in Aspen. Wow. And that's when I got to know him and thought it's a really good guy. I guess this is what we're asking like, you know, the beginnings of it obviously tumultuous. But when you're talking about then we fell in love. What was that? Like it was the calling every day for Aspen. Like, like, how did you get to know each other? Because that's what that's what like delayed the foundation for all this. That's it. Talking on the phone because we didn't have anything else. You just had the phone. Yeah. There are no cell phones. There's none of that. You just talked. We would call me and we would talk and we got to know each other over a two week period. I think he called every day. God love him. Yeah. And then when he came back, I said, you ask me out to dinner and I said, yes. And then it just blossomed from there because there was a sense of connection over I like who you are. And I think he felt the same about me. You'd have to ask him. And so it blossomed from that. Now, yes, he's always been hot and that's always helpful. Yeah. When you have two people that two people that are attracted when physicals react. It's helpful because down the line, you know, that's the first thing you start to devalue people. That's what happens in a relationship. Oh, sure. It's very easy to do. They bug me. This is, you know, and so we're very cognizant of that also. Yeah. Like if that starts to feel like it's happening, yeah, we'll go to therapy. Yeah. We like, we work on it because it's not easy. Yeah. Do you do therapy as like upkeep or do you do regular therapy? Um, both depending like right now we're in therapy. Right. Because I just feel we both are like, let's do it right now. Yeah. We've kind of grown in separate directions doing a lot of things. We need to come back together. Yep. Yep. So helpful. And I'm not afraid to do that. Yeah. I would imagine too that it's also like when your kids not only grow up, it becomes super successful and busy. Like in that. Then your empty nesters do not only empty nesters, but also like empty nesters and like, they're what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. They are. They're doing it. Thank God. Yeah. They're out there doing it in a major way. They are and we're so proud. I mean, you know, listen, that's what we are the most proud of is that I think that whatever we did, because you know, as a parent, you don't know what you're doing. You really don't. You just do the best you can to be there for your children and give them the best upbringing that you can. But you know, I mean, come on. Our parents who knew what they were doing. Seriously, like we're all lucky to still be alive. It's going to be a god love. When you do realize that at some point, I think now my dad's age when he had me and I was like, that's interesting thinking about myself having a kid right now. And a part. That's like, you know, someone that it's it's think about it. Like God love them. God bless them and God love that. And then listen, we have to figure out what happened to us. And then God forbid what those poor kids are going to have to go through in their own therapy. How we have, you know, helped them, but how also we have given them, you know, bad habits. Who knows that happens with everybody. But both of us, Harry and myself feel that whatever we did, because we really don't know what we did. We turned out some good humans. Yeah. Good human beings. Kind, compassionate, good girls. And I'm very proud of that. Are they do they remain really close? They do now. They weren't for a minute. Those girls can fight, you know, girls can love and then hate each other. Because what's the age difference again? Three years. Yeah. It's just that Goldilocks zone where like they love it. The love each other forever. But also, oh, we went through a couple years and woo. Yeah. Very uncomfortable. But now they're very close back to it. But they're sisters. You know what I mean? Yeah. But super supportive of each other in this business that they're both in which can be very tricky. Is it still very, very competitive? Yeah. Yeah. It's more than ever. I just, I guess I never really, that world is still a mystery to me. So foreign. Yeah. Well, it's foreign to me too, to be honest with you. You wouldn't even think that. It's like a glove. Well, I love it. And I just jumped right into it. Of course, to kind of watch it all and manage it all. But I don't know that world. It's a vicious world. Actually, it is a vicious and it's about how you look on a period. Yeah, period. But at the end of the day, it is about who you are. It is about your personality. It is how you work with people and how well you work with people. Because if you're to choose from, you know, 10 gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous women, do you want to work with a cunt? Yeah. I don't know if I can say that, but I just do want to work with a cunt or you want to work with somebody who's really cool and and game and kind. There you go. So it's sometimes it's funny too. Like when you, like I've been watching, there's the new documentary on HBO Max about supermodels and, which one? There's one with Isabella Rosalini, actually. I have not seen that. I've put Lena Porskov on it. It's got Jerry Hall. Oh, I want to see it. It's good. And it's really, it's talking a lot about the aesthetic changing. Like it's like from from when modeling kind of started like in the 40s when it was really just like women, you know, trying on clothes just so that those can be seen just right. And then it became more about like attitude, energy, vibe, lifestyle, right? Yes. Individuality in terms of the way you present the clothing, which leads into, you know, the Victoria Secret of Adol and like the, et cetera. But it's just really interesting how personality, you know, like with Naomi Campbell, she has her reputation as being someone that's like always late, a diva going to throw something. But then it can't really be true because she's had the most lasting career of almost anyone and all of the entertainment industry. I know. So it's like, I know it's really interesting to watch. I have to say, but I think for you, you get to enter this space with ease, I would say, because you have a point of view already. And the reason we all love fashion is actors is because you are playing a character again, not all the models understand that you have to find a way in that way. Yes, it might not be playing a character, but you already have a built-in mechanism to be like, I'm gonna put the clothes on. I'm gonna be someone else. I'm gonna be Pedro Pascal and a Pedro Pascal. You know what I mean? Yes, I do. What was your favorite of the looks to wear at the cultural awards? So hard to choose because I love to every single one of them. Besides your own that you want. Besides the one that you want. What was that? What was that? What was that? What was that? Archival. I don't know. No. Or something. Well, you wore a caprioli on the carpet. I did some random. Yes. It's a name I couldn't even tell you right now. Stunning. It's so good. It's so fun, right? Yeah, that was great. Scupperoli was on the red carpet. Yeah, which we love. I love it. I think Pedro was my favorite of the whole day. Oh, yeah. I do. I mean, I love Timothy also. We had a degree. We had a degree. It was so fun to embody the vibe that I thought was him. You nailed it. I had so much fun. I went for it. I did. I was like, I'm gonna be these characters. It was so funny backstage getting ready because I was very particular. It had to look a certain way. Yes. They wanted to throw like this kind of strange go-tay on me. I was like, no, it's not right. I ended up drawing on the one for Timothy because his was pretty sparse. And then when they had it, I was like, no, no, no, no. The makeup artist didn't want to hand me the pencil. I was like, no, you have to just let me do it. I just did it. Then it worked out. I had to do it. The right had to be perfect. Well, yeah. You have to be. You've just subconsciously feel comfortable. That's right. Otherwise, you can't come out as fully as you want. You did. I remember we were like putting it together and it was in the script that the first one was going to be Demi Moore's yellow coat in the substance. And I remember you came out looking so exactly like her. I was like, is this the right first one because it looks like Demi. I was like, are people going to know that's Lisa Rina? That's it for me right there. I was like, is it should we switch it because or should we have it come out like so that people can really establish that it's Lisa Rina because the culture reward is so, and I say this with love for us, it's so dumb that like it's like, it's so fun. It's so fun. Anything could have been in a joke at any time. Yes, yes. So I was like, are people going to think that's Demi? Because it looks like Demi. Right, right. But then like honestly, I'm so happy because it landed her. It just worked. I'm telling you that. And it established what the joke was. It did. It just worked. Yeah. And you know, it's funny because I didn't know what I was going to be doing. Right. And then I went to go do traders. And then I signed up. Are you going to just come back from traders? I just come back. And when I come back, they told me what I was doing. So when I went, I knew I was going to be doing, but I didn't know till I came back. And I'll never forget getting the visuals and screaming out loud. I was so excited. It was like one of the first things I was like, this is like a dream. Come true. I loved it so much. And of course, Demi was the first image. It was actually in our, do you know, you must do you know Demi? I know her. Yes. I mean, I don't know her. She posted it. Super. Why did I post it? Did I know she did? Yeah. Come on. When that happens, you go. Okay. Yeah. Thank God. And the Patro commented on the Patro one too. You certainly did. He did. You didn't see that. Patro saw the Patro one. He did. I was such a thrill. Still waiting for comment from Timothy. Timothy. And how are you? You're getting coffee. And the Henley Hartgren. You're getting coffee. Just my pants. This was freedom, honey. I could just go and play. Yeah. Thank you. I will say the only thing that was cut out after some pushback was you and the Pedro outfit. Kissing Andy Cohen. And that was a special moment that we got on camera. But unfortunately, we had to lose from the broadcast. I know. But it was a very important. It was like a banner had to be there. We had to sell Costa Migos at the end of the day. I know. Listen, everything happens for reason. And at the end of the day, I was okay with it all because I did it there. Like, yeah, yeah. We had that moment. It was kind of a nice power play switch that I came up with at the very, I don't even know how I came up with that at the last minute. I loved it. How are you and Andy now? We're good. You know, I mean, we're, I've been good with Andy. I'm good. You're good. And then you're, you know, you're not good. And you're good. I've always been pretty good with Andy. Like, I'm not afraid to say, you know what? I didn't like that you just said that to me on your, Sure. on your show that we just did on your radio show. And he'll be like, oh, I thought you really liked that. And I was like, no, I didn't. And here's why. Or he'll say to me something criticism. And I'll take it. And I'll be like, you know, you're right. So we have that relationship. Conflict and resolution. But that's something that you learned from the show. I certainly did. And that's something that you can both handle as adults. I think so. And Andy and I, I think always have been in on the joke. Yeah. In a sense. Yeah. I have respect for him. And I think he has respect for me. And so we have that mutual respect that over that pre-succeeds or what's the word? Proceeds or supersedes. Or supersedes. That's the word supersedes all the bullshit. Is the rest of it's all bullshit at the end of the day anyway? Yeah. How about that? It's a long life. You know what I mean? It's like it is. Hopefully. You're going to see him at like your daughter's wedding or something. Yeah. Well, if he's lucky. No. I feel like, but I also feel like the thing with relationship with him too. And I feel like you and the whole housewives of it all, which is why the Bravo thing with the cultural awards felt so good is because it does feel like you're done with all of that. And it feels like something that's like in your past is a completed thing. At least being a housewife. Oh, yes. Yes. And I feel like there's this oftentimes this idea from the fan community, which is like, oh, they want to come back or they must want to come back. Like as if it can't be a conscious choice to leave that show. But I feel like with you, you've shown that like and obviously from being such an industry figure for such a long time, like this was a chapter. It had its ups and downs and that is going to be what it is. And it's learned from. And now you're moving forward. And I feel like a lot of the fan community almost doesn't know what to do with the fact that someone might not want to come back and be a real housewife. It's true. And you know, I have great affection, even though it's a difficult show to do. I've great affection for those eight years and what it brought to me and what it brought to my career and how now, which is very interesting, I'm doing like endorsements and things that have to do with the things that I said on that show that became moments. Right. So I'm like, thank you. Yeah. Wow. Kachin, kachin. Like it just keeps moving on because people enjoyed that. They like those moments. They get a kick out of it. They're entertained by it. So at the end of the day, it was a great thing. It was the investment. It was the real estate. You took your time in that lot. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it runs its course, I think, for everyone. Right. Yeah. It's kind of, you know, it's going to, they'll come a day for everyone, even for Kyle Richards. Do you know what I mean? When you've been on from the beginning where you have to make the decision. Yeah. Do I continue or do I take a risk and go out there? It's very hard for most housewives to do that. Yeah. You know, because it is a steady gig. Yeah. That's the thing too is it's work and especially. It's a check. Yeah. Yeah. It's a structure. You, I know what my fall is going to look like because I've been doing this every year. And there's something really comforting and also challenging if you've been doing it for a long time, you know, to get excited about it. But at the end of the day, I wouldn't change a thing. Hmm. I wouldn't. I wouldn't change a thing. I would do it again. Oh, I wouldn't do it again right now. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's part of my history. It's part of just like Veronica Mars. Yes. Just like Melrose Place and, and, and days of our lives. The days, yeah. Everything I've done has brought me here. And it's exciting to see what's next, you know? We're talking about this with them, our, our, our other guests, but it's like the through line comes into view after the fact, which is always weird. It really does, isn't it true? The dynasty is like the perfect origin spot for you where it all connects to everything that comes after. I will say, just before we do that, I think, so many, I will bring it back to our first meeting, which was I was in. Yes, we must. Oh, this is great. We must. It was intermission for Sweeney Todd. I remember like this yesterday. Like it was yesterday. I was waiting for my friend Hunter. And I was just like on my phone, just like downstairs in the bathroom. Waiting in line, we were in the line, or I'd come out of the bathroom. You would come out, we were, I was waiting and then you would come out of the bathroom. And then I get a tap on my shoulder, I look up and I go, I was like, oh, it's a, it's supposed to be someone maybe wanting a picture or something. I look up and my jaw drops. It was Lisa looking so chic and a Prada bucket hat. Look at that. It's big shades, huge coverage shades looking stunning. Oh my God. No, I was literally in like dress down. I'm going to the theater, you know, bring Prada. Your dress down with, bring Prada. And I was like, oh, I'm just such a fan and I just love you so much. Oh my God. I just, I remember it like it was yesterday. So do I. Anyway, it was just to see you and to meet you in person. Oh, come on. I'm such a huge fan. Are you kidding? You're a genius. Stop it, Lisa. Stop, stop, stop. I was like, oh my God, I'm meeting you. Oh my God. Oh my God. So we had the same moment. We had the same moment. And so I wanted to, and I, because you're a fan of theater. I love it, love it, love it. I think we got to see you back on the boards again. Yeah. Can we see you back on the boards? I know what I thought of the other day. I'm not sure I could do it. I'm not sure it would even be in my, my capacity at this point. But you know what came up? The MC in cabaret, which is usually played by a man. A man. How did he come up? I don't know. It just popped into my head. Oh, that it would be cool for you to do. Someone was talking about like the different ways in which you can take that role. And someone said that it wouldn't be out of a question for a woman to do it. I was like, that would be really interesting. I think there was even someone who said they were, they wanted to do it. And then they ended up playing Sally Bowles. I'm losing it right now. I mean, not to, not to put this out there and like put pressure on anybody, but Lisa Rinne as Mary Tuddling. Oh, that would be a pretty good fit. I love it. I can be. Oh, my God, it really could, but it's a hard role, isn't it? I think you could do it. Really hard. You remember I sporty pages of dialogue a day on on days of our lives. Oh, my God. Will I be going back to Broadway? I might be. I just might be. This is this is the origin. Oh, it always starts somewhere. It starts. That's not a bad idea. Maybe. I don't know. You never know. You never, ever know. If you're listening, you know, they don't cast it. I'm sure they have a happy hand in deciding. Anything else to talk about before we do? I don't think so. I'm trying to think, do you want to say why everything you want to say about Veronica Morris? Oh my God. Just do. I mean, what a stack show between obviously Christian birth to Kristen Bell. I mean, as I race first, we're after me. Yeah. And Harry kills her. Yeah. Harry kills her. Harry kills her. Harry kills her. So for like a Mars, you probably have like, I would imagine that like you get people coming up and they hear they come and you can imagine. Imagine. You can imagine what they're going to say. And then when they say Veronica Mars, that has to be a special like I like that one. I like the Veronica Mars and the entourage. Oh, we're not. We're not. You have to see. I used to watch. You have to somehow YouTube it. Yeah. It's probably HBO Max has it. Probably definitely. You have to see it. Yeah. It's not a big. It's not huge. It's memorable though. It's a memorable. Of course it is. It's a memorable, memorable episode. Or sure I will say I get to be really sassy. You got to bet. Are you king? I just had a meal. Yeah. I can't remember how old she was. She was very young. And my agent at the time was like, you have to do this. And it's really, it's really nasty and quite saucy and all of it. And I was a new mother and I was like, I can't do this. There's no way. I mean, now of course I wouldn't. I'd be like fine here. Here we go. Let's go. But at that time I was like, I just can't do this. It's like, I'm too vulnerable. He's like, you're doing it. I don't care what you say. It's entourage and you're doing it. And so I did it. Wow. It's fine. I know I got to do really good. You got to be able to watch this. So that was around a time when like, we had a HBO on demand when I was younger. And I remember my parents would leave. My parents would leave and like, I would like, mainline sex in the city. Right. And then entourage is kind of like sex in the city for boys. Yeah, it was. So clearly I was not that into it. I was like, I want to watch this other thing. But I picked it on some episodes. I used to think Kevin Connolly was hot. They were all pretty good. Yeah, they were. And they were so nice. It was great. It was fun. It's just super crunchy. Okay. Seven stops to write this best man's speech. Hi, I'm Liam. And I've got nothing. Start funny. Funny is good. I beat her. He'd never forgive me. What about friendship is a journey? Ugh, Clint. Come on. That's it. In year five, Dan had the bright idea. Cracking the best, best man's speech. On the train, you can. Sun on a dashboard. The kind of day that makes you want to take the long way home. With a range of spacious SUVs like the CRV, you've got the room to have. Handle the daily chaos, which makes those big adventures feel that much closer. Because every journey matters. Book a test drive at Braille Honda today. Honda, the power of dreams. Okay, so it's time. We're transitioning into, I don't think so honey, this is our one minute segment where we take that long to absolutely tear something up in culture. Mine, it's a throwback, but it's relevant. Okay, okay. This is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many times starts now. I don't think so honey, years ago, my parents took me to Los Angeles, California, after I graduated college. I had never been there before and we went on a celebrity home tour in one of those Jeep safaris. And the guy was from New Zealand and he was riding us down by the Beverly Hills hotel. And I don't think so honey, that he almost killed me and my family, trying to track down Adrian Grineer. He said, it's Adrian Grineer from Unterrage. And this is my sort of New Zealand accent. And he is gunned in as hard as he could. Flying through, he literally pulled up next to this car. It was not Adrian Grineer. No. So what I want to say is, I don't think so honey, to any of these people out there on the roads with families of four in the back, they don't know who Adrian Grineer is. Okay. So I want to say that second of all, you can't kill me trying to see Adrian Grineer. You can kill me trying to run down seat like, I don't know at the time. He was like Justin Beiber. It was all about Bieber. It was about Bieber. Sure. I can't die trying to track down Adrian Grineer from Unterrage, not with my one precious slide. Real or fake. And that's one minute. I'll never forget it. My first shift to Hollywood. Wow. Did you buy the map? We did the whole thing. The whole thing. I'm telling you, you did that. You know those tacky, like, oh yeah. Sorry, jeep cars. We got in one. I was mortified because I was like, oh God, like me thinking at some point, maybe I'll be one of these people. Like I would have won like, hand them down. My parents wanted to go and actually it was kind of interesting. We were like, oh, no. Mrs. Eugenia Gelerus house. It used to be us. Yes, born house. Like I was like, oh, that's interesting. Then when we almost died, you were like, I was like, get me out of here. And the guy wasn't even Adrian Grineer. Gosh. But I, Matt Rogers, almost died in a car trying to find. And we're so happy you've lived. Yes. And now we're really good. It's full circle to bring that together with the entourage. Yes. Very good. Very good. Yes. Bringing back the years. Very, very good. Very good. The paparazzi culture. I've got a bit of a throwback as well. Okay. This is a hard one by the way you guys. No, it's very hard, especially when we've been in the heart. This was hard. Oftentimes we'll do like two or three in a day and it becomes really difficult. Yeah. But ultimately you do, I find always have something to complain about. I think you do. All right. So this is Bo and Yang's. I don't think so many times. I don't think so honey that they have since closed the restaurant where the Amsterdam trip happened on the Beverly Hills episode. That is historical site that is next to another historical site, which is the Anne Frank House. But anyone who goes to Amsterdam now cannot go to the site of the restaurant and where Lisa really broke the glass and weighed in front of Kim Richardson's face and Kyle Flet and Kyle Flet and we need to be not the Kyle Fleeing scene when you're in Amsterdam. That's like what we as gay men want to do in this day. We can't do it anymore. And now you go to the Anne Frank House. It's a bunch of teens with their little hoverboards loitering by their river. We it could have been overrun with gay men and gorgeous women wanting to see that historic site. That amazing moment in Housewives history. It's just gone now. We need to commemorate and landmark these places or else we will lose history. It's five seconds and history is the only thing that we have or else it will repeat itself or rhyme. And that's one minute. Wow. It's closed. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. I trust. It's the area or something else is there now. I know. They're sending it. Have you seen the the the same hour whispered the vision of it and her the same. It is one of the funniest. Uh, you know, I enjoy these things. I will never not enjoy this. It is so funny to me. Are you kidding me? It is some of the greatest television ever made. They didn't even know we were making. It does support you. It was five minutes. We sat down and it happened five minutes later. You don't know that. So wait, that was a quick scene. No, we came into this restaurant to sit down. You would think that we had been sitting there for a long time, got your drinks. We sat down and five minutes later that happened. That's the editing because they cut to all the talking heads, they cut to the professionals. We sit down and boom, the whole conversation starts. I mean, it took a minute to get to the glass part. Sure, sure, sure. We didn't have drinks, even. I mean, I think they brought them as we were talking. You didn't see them. Yeah. But when I sat down, five minutes later, that whole conversation started and I would probably say 10 more minutes in. So 15 more minutes, I was across the table. Wow. And I always wonder, like, do they take your food order beforehand? They do now. They didn't. They didn't then. They used to take it like a couple days before. Oh, yeah. I don't think the food ever came at that point. That's what I didn't see. Like that here in the show, you never ate. Yeah. There's no food. Like there might be food, but you're lucky. Hence the, you know, most of the drinking. There you go. I hadn't even had a glass of wine. I was not drunk. No, but they worked you up. She worked, came worked you up. Oh, it didn't take long. It was already building though. You know, it's the kind of thing that, you know, she was vibing me on the plane. Yeah. We already had like really, like it was bubbling, bubbling, bubbling, bubbling. And I'll never forget, because she's like right here. Like she's pretty far. Let's not talk about the husband. When she started in on that, I was already in your jet lag. Of course. Your jet lagged. I'm not going to blame it on that, but you're like jet lag and you're not at your, you know, best. But I'll never forget her just like poking and poking and me thinking of myself. Okay, that's it. And I remember flying across the table and stopping myself mid-lunge. Yeah. And this is what I said. And most people have never heard this. I said to myself, if you touch her, you're going to jail an Amsterdam. You're in Amsterdam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember that part. And so then I pull back and I had so much rage that I picked up the glass and smashed it. Yeah. Good TV. Did you just see her at Alexia's wedding? Nope. She wasn't there. She wasn't there. No. But I've seen her and we have like worked through. Good. I've worked through most of it with most of them. Yeah. You have to. I don't want to carry that. You're a human being. We're all humans. We're doing the best we could at the time, whatever. But I've already had that. I've worked through it with Kathy Hilton. All is fine. It feels like that must have gotten calmer because it all come down between Kathy and Kyle. Yes. Yeah. And that's where it all began. Exactly. How are you okay with Garsela or is that kind of in the past two now? Who? Oh, here we go. This is Lisa Rinne. You have something? I said almost everyone. Yeah. Almost everyone. I mean, she's fine. I feel really sad about this. I know. I know. The Sutton and Garsela bit all at the end there. I was really. That didn't feel great. Two people I knew before. See, it never works when I know you. When you know that before. Think about it. Denise Sutton Garsela. That's a bummer. Didn't work with the people that I actually knew. Sure. Well, I knew Kyle before. So that worked. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to try one. I don't know if I. You're going to do great. I don't know if I actually have it. But since we're on Amsterdam, I'm going to go down a road there. Okay. It's got this. Okay. I'm going to try it. And what do I say first? You say, I don't think so, honey. Okay. I'll play you on the clock. This is Lisa Rinne's. I don't think so. I don't think so, honey. We're in Amsterdam. And we're going around. And we're walking around. And yes, there are sex clubs and there are women in the windows and whatnot. And everyone is like, hey, let's go into this because I want to see a woman should a banana out of her vagina. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't think so, honey. But I had no choice. It was like two in the morning. And so we go downstairs into this cave, into this club. And I'm already, I think I've already done the broken glass part. And I'm already traumatized. Damn. And they're like, you really need to see this. This woman shoots a banana out of her vagina. It's been a night. But I don't really need to see it. And show it up. And I'm like, where it takes a little bit of a banana. It's not even a big banana. It's just little banana. And she somehow shoots it across the room. Ever vagina. And I never, honey, needed to see that ever in my life. I can't get it out of my mind. And I wish I said, no, fuckers. I'm not going to see the banana come out of the vagina and Amsterdam. And that's that. No, thank you, honey, ever again. And that's one banana. Who was the wrinkly leader on that? Erica Jane. The producers. Oh, yeah. No, I wasn't there yet. Oh, yeah. This was pre-erka. This was pre-erka. She would have been ready to go. She would have. I was a group of us. We were bored. We weren't even filming. It was a thing. They could get the cameras down. There's the world with the cameras. The cameras do go down. The producers were. Oh, we saw that. They went down an ass bin and they went down here for the banana shooting out of the vagina. Yeah. Well, that would have been good to see. It would have been great to see. Well, it would have been actually very exciting. Yes. It wasn't. No, honey. You still think about it, which is tough. It's like it's like a stress stream that you're going to have. I should never have seen it. I should have closed my eyes and said, no. Damn. There you go. Well, you're stronger because of it. You are. No regrets. You said no regrets from that time. And that includes that. Well, I feel like I've seen a lot. Yeah. I mean, this has been such a joy. I know. I was like so excited. I was like, I can't wait to come and play with the boys. Because that's, I feel like it's just so easy with you. And thank you again for the award show. It was the time of my life. It changed a lot of things just so you guys know. I'm going to tell you, my agents were like, I'm telling you, that show has, has raised your, your value. And everyone is calling. They love, like, I was like, that's all you. That's all you. That's all you. That's all you. Well, listen, I, I, I, it's. No, you gave me the opportunity and I just had fun doing it. So thank you. We have enjoyed you in all of your forms in this entertainment industry watching you. Now getting to meet you was so fun. And we're just like, so happy to meet you. And I, I don't know if I told you this, but our best friend, Jared, years ago was walking in Fryman Canyon. And he would always run into you. And he had a dog. And I guess Harry went down one time to pet the dog. And he, Jared said to Harry Hamlin, hey, congrats on the sauce. And I always thought that was the funniest thing ever. I was like, that Harry Hamlin now, like superstar Harry Hamlin has now been congratulated about the sauce for his sauce. It's the truth. He said people stop him and say, where's Lisa? And I love your sauce and congrats on the sauce. How many is that? Yeah. Okay, we want the sauce. Oh, you can, I'll send you the sauce. Well, I love bullenades. Okay, we, there's bullenades. Now there's marinara. There's vodka sauce. Now there's four. I love it. And they just got into gelsons. Congratulations. He got into gelsons. Oh my god. He got into gelsons. He got into gelsons. He got into gelsons. That's really breaking through in Hollywood. Well, you're getting into gelsons. That one on the front. That's my gelsons. I'm going to go there. Got into 30 gelsons. So it's beginning. It's the key. What's the name of this sauce? It's Harry's famous. Harry's famous. You can get it at Harry's famous. You can get it at Harry's famous.com or Amazon right now until you can get it in gelsons. And then God knows where else. And why didn't even get into QV Ceeleys, or anything? Oh, that's fast for the next time. Next time we have a lot to say. I obviously have much. I could have ranted on that. I could have ranted on a lot of things. But the bananas was good. We'll be back. The bananas were great. Let's not talk about the husband. His podcast presented by Dear Media. Thank you for those plugs. And Harry Hamlin. It's really fun. If you miss watching those interactions on TV, you can hear him every week in your ears. And do you know when the trainers comes out? It's January. That's what I love about trainers too. Is it premieres right after the new year? And it always feels like we're starting. Are your kids start? Yeah. Just you wait. I'm going to say. Just you wait. Every episode with a song. Come on babe, why don't we pay the town? And all that jazz I'm going to root my knees and roll my stockings down. And all that jazz. And if you want to hear more of that, you can see Chicago on Broadway. It's not going anywhere. Follow with me. Bye! Last culturedest is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players in the Heart Radio Podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Executive produced by Anna Hosniay and produced by Becker Ramos. edited and mixed by Duck Bame. And our music is by Henrik Forske. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.