Ep 1258 | Phyllis Revisits Phil’s Past, His First Words to Her & the Healing They Found Together

I am on a shame. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Jay's I got a question for you. So it's by the time this episode drops will be probably right at the very end of Duxes in this year. And we've been talking a lot about hunts and Dux coming and or not coming as it were. And this season started with kind of a call to arms. I guess we had after dad crossed over back in right before Memorial Day last year in 25 that we were going to the brothers were going to hunt together, which we did. And it was great because it was kind of a I guess an homage to dad, you know, just to kind of say, you know, we're here on up the day because you're not here. So whatever whatever his experiences are crossed over, we don't know. And but we you killed a band of Dux. Yeah, my first Duxes. What was has never happened. So that made me kind of chuckle that yeah, and it just kind of give us that. So so I got quite my question for you because we got a guest coming on a little bit later. So we're going to be talking quite a bit today about about dad about legacy, about a lot of things that he brought to us. Obviously our kind of family tagline was faith family ducks, you know, especially when the show came along in that order, you know, dad used to say. And what I just want to know from you like so now we're ending the a K at a first complete season without dad being there. What's that been like to you? I mean, do do. Just it does his kind of like with this podcast is the presence of him come up often. Do you think about him? I'm so yeah, I've thought about him every day just because we had this weird phenomenon because we pump our water in in low water years from the wash towel river. But what happened was and I've shared this before. We had a series of unfortunate events come together. We had an extremely dry year, but they also dropped our river down from pool stage. You know, they call it pool stage because that means this is as low as it goes. Until they decide the government to drop it down seven feet lower because they need to work on some locks and down. So barges can traffic the river. And so when those things happen, we could no longer pump from the river because we pump from an offshoot creek of the river. Well, that just that just put it where it was unpumpable. There's no water. I mean, a little bit with what little we did pump. We we drive the creek up. And so I thought every day, I mean, he would have never he would have been so frustrated that we it just won't rain and we can't get any water because because my dad he pretty well hunted every day of duxies and every year for how many years 16. So 65 years. Yeah, the couple times just think about duxies in the 60 days. Now, there was a period. It was 30 days. A season, but he pretty well hunted every day. And so there was only a couple of times I remember where he got so sick that he could not put one foot in front of the other. But even then he shuffled out there where he could hear whether we were shooting or not from his porch. And one of those Douglas famous because we hammered him. And he said, it's the first time in my life that I almost cried. It was just hard for. But I will say this year has also, you know, Willie from our first hunt this year, it kind of ignited a resurgence in his duck hunting practices. He's gone more this year than he has in the last 30 combined. So I thought that was interesting. And maybe it is just that kind of nostalgic passing down the legacy. But yeah, I quote him often because I'm missing and it's been, it's been weird without him. And I've missed more days this year than I've ever missed just because we simply have no dux and traveled a lot. Well, I was and I thought about it because he couldn't really, he wouldn't have imagined, although he was good at adapting and reactive, but he wouldn't imagine not being able to pump water out of the river. Because the river was the one constant, right, as long as you've been out there now. He expected it to come out of his banks, but not to go below pool. And so that would have been a whole new experience for him. But I was thinking about, you know, decision to move out on the river was made with the idea that we would live off the river and live off the land. And I just thought about through all those years of us being out there and growing up until we kind of left and made our own way in town, our own life. That, you know, it was always things you didn't anticipate. I like the whole crawfish enterprise that came up for what maybe about three years when people were start crawfish craze really took off when North Louisiana man, they were looking for whatever they could get. And we had access to flooded property. And so then it was like, well, we can make some money off of crawfish. So it's like there was always an adaptation to what nature or in our, we would know nature of course is God. But what's being offered for us to take advantage of to make a living? I mean, was that would you say that's a good description? You know, I think it contributed and maybe and just grateful for what I have and appreciate things and and having a non entitlement spirit. I mean, working the land. It just teaches you certain ethics. You know, those those were hard years. I mean, I'm ever been so nervous just as a kid running this machinery, making the duck calls and even if you're a commercial fisherman, you're always dangerous. I mean, you're out there in the river. You fall out of the boat or catch a rope on your leg, which happened many times, but you know, thankfully never fatal over just catching fish that was you were making so little of money. And I remember as a kid, I used to be thinking, how come this is not worth more? I mean, we're out here risking our life and they they're fantastic tasting fish. This is the cream of the crop, even the crawfish operation because we would eat them every day. And which we could have made, you know, more money, but my day was like, I just can't in good content. I mean, I think I was just taking all the bags to the market. They're too good. I mean, because we were like wanting to reward ourselves for just back breaking work from day before daylight till after dark. I'm just so thankful for all those those ethics that I learned doing that process. I also had a philosophy of what I would later learn through the Bible was what I would call his philosophy. Now a first fruits philosophy that whatever we got from from the land from the water from the river. His family always got the first fruits. Oh, he did. Yeah. Of that labor. In other words, we got the best. And I've told the story before we would take our fish in the fish market. And they they ate the scraps because they were trying to make money off the best. And then they ate the fiends and the tails or whatever. And so I just always thought, hmm, because when we were eating, we were eating like belly meat of the opalysis. We're eating the best. And so I just, but that's a first fruit philosophy. That's the idea of God saying you bring me the best first. Don't bring me the last. Don't bring me the scraps. Don't bring me the leftovers. And that's the way we grew up. When you say day. Well, yeah. And I mean, you look at our culture now since the phone epidemic. Oh, and you just you have kids growing up who don't want to work, don't appreciate it or, you know, can't do anything out in the wilderness or the wild man. I'm constantly taking people duck hunting that up me. Me and this other day, we were I was hunting with a guy who guides. And we were swapping stories about the guide process when you take people. And he was like, I mean, the other day, he said, I had, you know, they they were five. People from the corporate world in their early 30s. And it had a big rain. And I couldn't haul everybody out there. But I was like, they all had waiter zone. And he said, so I, I just thought, I'm going to take all their gear to the blind and just have them walk. I mean, it's shallow water. It's there's nothing can happen. And he said, it's maybe 200 yards. He goes, gets all this stuff. And when he turned around and starts looking back, he said it just look like some creature had had attacked them all. He said they were all on the ground. And he thought, what is going on? They literally were just falling out. They couldn't walk in gumbo mud 200 yards without remaining standing. And these were like young and shaped people. And I was like, you got to be kidding. And he's like, no, he's like, it was traumatizing. They're just falling down all over the place. There's just like, there's just wallowing around in six inches of water in the mud. And they can't walk 200 yards through the mud and get in a blind. And he said, it's the most scared I've ever been while hunting because I thought if you can't walk 200 yards in the mud to go duck hunting. How are you going to do with a firearm? Yeah. And I thought, man, are we really there in our culture where people just from these big cities and culture, these corporate, you know, America can't go out in the wild. Not not just survive. They can't walk 200 yards. To be fair, you guys had, and I remember this just growing up. One thing we had was the benefit of the of whatever the end product was. You had that reward waiting on you. And so when you've, when you've tasted that fried opalusicaat fish, that belly, those op bellies, and you know, you know what's on the other side of that. So it's, it's, it kind of biblical and the Bible says for the joy set before him. He endured the cross. You can endure all the hard work for the joy set before you, but you got to see and got to get to that reward. And I think that was like a motivation when you think about growing up like that. I mean, because I always saw it. It's funny. Y'all grew up poor. But I always thought y'all are rich. You know, when we were coming down, I knew the thing was going to be better than what we were getting. Y'all are going to have all the all you can eat crawfish. You're going to have all. I mean, I, so we always saw we come in town. It was like, oh, they, they, they've, they've hit the big times, you know, I said, we proceed. Well, Zach, your, your family was in full time ministry. So you were the only people poor than us, which is pretty bad. So, so about 10 years ago, just to shift this because I want to bring our guests in. So, as the show was winding down, Zach, we, dad approached you and you guys started talking about some opportunities post Doug Dynasty to do some things that dads up really wanted to do with the platform. They got a given him now. And that was more to get the gospel to everybody. And that started with a movie that wound up being then this podcast and another show we did for Blaze. And so all those for opportunities. And then about, you know, six years ago, something very life changing happened. And so that's what we want to talk about the rest of this podcast today. And so that life changer is going to join us on the other side of this break. So let's take a break and I'll introduce our special guest today. So, Jay, she's been on the road here quite a bit lately. When you got back home where your little poochies glad to see you. Oh, yeah, they know what that means when I start rustling this bag. My two little dogs. We start shaking and they come running. So if you're a pet owner like us, you know, sometimes your pet gets to feeling down, gets to feeling bad. You load up because the vet. They're giving you the shots. They're telling you about the diagnosis. And it seems like you just get locked into a pattern. But the truth is, this problem is the same. You're getting a weak immune system from eating processed dead food year after year. That really is the source of many of our pets problems. We don't want to do that. We want to change that. So I asked for a good friend Dr. Dennis Black came up with a product called Rough Greens. They love it. Mine do as well. They look better. Their coats are shinier. That's because this product is packed with nutrients that helps them work from the inside out. It gives your dog the foundation they need to thrive instead of just patching up symptoms and getting them by. We want to get you off that vet visit Mary go around with America's number one dog supplement. Thousands of pet owners are seeing the difference. You should try it fewer problems, more energy and shinier coats. Right now you can try it for yourself with a free jumpstart trial bag. Just cover the shipping because the best doctor visit is the one you never have to make. Go to rough Greens dot com use the promo code unashamed to break the cycle today. Are you FF greens dot com promo code unashamed. Welcome back to unashamed. We have our esteemed guest our baby sister J's Phyllis is joining us from St. Louis Missouri. Welcome Phyllis back to unashamed. Hello, hello. Good to see you all. Good to see you. So it's been it's been a minute. We kind of open this talking about our faith family ducks. Legacy with dad we're talking a little bit about our childhood and I kind of tease you're coming home and you got a new book is that we're going to be talking about a little bit later just to let our audience know. What we're going to be talking about today, but obviously you know all of us miss dad. This was his podcast to begin with and Zach and I weren't really even going to be a part of it and J's wasn't a part of it at all in the early days and it has wound up being what it was. And I was with the four of us and obviously not only us, but the unashamed audience misses dad as we all do. But I did think it was interesting, Phyllis, that you so you came into our lives in in 2020. We found out about you right there at the beginning right just before COVID. Actually, I was meditating about this this morning about you being on today and I realized that the unashamed audience had the front row seat. The first years to hear your story as it now has connected to our story and you finding us and everything that happened. And so I looked it up because you know, Jay, I'm a note taker and a May 18th 2020 way back the title of it. The podcast those two podcasts were our new family. And so you know early on, so if you've been around a while, if you've been with us on the beginning on an ashamed you remember this and you were the. You were the pathway to the rest of the world we told our story and Phyllis's story to the whole world through the unashamed podcast and it was really great. Zach, you remember we were you know wondering how this is going to kind of come out and turns out the story when it turns out our discussion on the podcast first with the brothers and dad and then with Phyllis and mom and me Jason dad. And we told the story and so the only quotes that were out there because it was a new cycle you know for there to. Was what we had talked about on the podcast which we didn't really necessarily you know know what was going to happen but it turned out to be a great way to tell the world don't you think you remember that's that I do remember sitting up here and. A restaurant and you were telling me the story of Phyllis you dropping off a envelope to somebody in the family can remember who. And I was like I think there may be some legs to that story we might want to look into that because every kind of another you know somebody kind of reached out what I was like I think that sounds legit and. It's the initial contact I think I was the first was not the first. You were the first one. I was bumped because you didn't stay the main one because when we ended up visiting later I was like are you going to be there you know you're like my little. Like lifeline and you're like no no like. Okay okay I'm accused of that before get the ball rolling there where is that he gone he gone so what did you think like out of other maybe people that had. Contact did you because I think that had happened before like hey I'm your long lost cousin or whatever what made y'all think hey this one has legs to it or. Well I remember I that was me by the way that. So you got the initial thing I got yeah I met I met Phyllis for the first time when Phyllina. Did the what would we call that it was kind of the Christmas season service it was the last Sunday of the year. Yeah. And everybody that normally would be doing things that our church were gone and so for some reason thought it was a good idea for Jason dad to take to take over. Let me explain that story I'll tell you this is a very good lesson in life. I griped to your right hand man Mike Kelet I said hey of course here I am a member I have no authority I'm not a leadership. I'm a member that shows up half the time because half the year I'm gone somewhere and I said they were going to do a kind of state of the church the local church. And I just he was walking by and I said hey I got a question why would you do a state of the church when none of the church are going to be here it's the Christmas season. That's a terrible idea. He said well why don't you do it then I said go up. Okay. And so I got feel I was like hey there's a lot of visitors people are bringing their family in half the half the normal members are going visiting family. And I was like let's just do it about Jesus. And so that's how that happened now but the problem was there were so many visitors that Phyllis and Tony were just in a line of other visitors and I was in meet and greet mode and you handed me an envelope but I was just and when you're in that mode you understand that now but yeah I'm in that mode all the time people are constantly coming up they're taking pictures they're handing you stuff and you're looking and most of the stuff is like oh wow I don't even know what this is you know is this a lot you're shaking the envelope seeing if there's anything alive in it. But so and then of course I forgot all about it put it in my truck somewhere and never even looked at it but then we had podcasts a couple days later and you had also dropped an envelope at the commander and one of the church that I got and so then in a weird thing this has never happened before I do see God working in this in some way. But I was stopped in a duck commander to get the mail and they handed me that I was on the way to the podcast and I didn't realize that this looks exactly like the one you handed me I had never registered so we do the podcast and I was fixed to leave back then we did the podcast out on the river and I handed it to I'll because it was addressed to feel and and so we open feels mail because that's just what you do as a family that's family. And I was going through it and he looked I was out here we go we got another we got another family member because here we go you said that fill us we got hundreds of those via email. I mean the list is long about not necessarily like your story but like we're related. I let them say I've had hundreds of people send me an email or an envelope saying that we're family and they need $17,000 or $28,000 for something but anyway so I'll started so so that our attitude I'm trying to tell this story realizing that we got a lot of junk at that time so we were obviously apprehensive about this. But when I saw the picture of you for some reason I think we kind of stopped down said even though the math didn't line up at the time because we didn't realize when field came to the Lord that was late in the year so this this actually would have been pre Jesus where this relationship happened and so but the picture for some reason I could see a little bit of my grandma. You know I just that's what hit me I was like she actually looks like somebody that would be in my family and so that started the the rabbit hole. Well we said the picture in the picture fill us you're sort of a compilation of Robertson women a little bit like Jan a little bit like Judy maybe couple a couple of cousins and so there's these characteristics and then Zach told me when he called me after he talked to you. Because we were all highly anticipating what was going to happen from that conversation and Zach said dude it was like talking to my mom and and so which was we took as a high compliment but also my jam was a little bit crazy too a little neurotic so but now that I know you feel it fits perfectly. I was going to say this. I was going to say this because so your your new book is called I never knew finding healing and renewal after trauma and and Maddie's going to show a picture of that and so you can see it and I'm super excited I haven't read it yet. I just read some excerpts and I've also read the summary you sent me but I did read last night dad did the forward for the book because you started working on this while he was still before we got sick because you've been working on this a while and and initially even you and Dapper going to write something together. Right. So it kind of add in flow but but something he said so I want to say this in his own words because I thought this was powerful and this is during dads forward for the book says two things happened in 1975 that said in motion and almost miraculous ending to our story. And I thought that was very powerful because I thought about it it was the beginning of a story and yet because it's been such a short time it was also the end of a story just within a small framework but he said two things happen I surrendered control of my life to Jesus and that's what Jason was missing and that happened at some point I would say around fall of 75 somewhere late summer I don't exactly remember but I do remember him showing up and Jason probably does to it or house or apartment I mean and it says that I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I was gonna say, what was it like? I mean, you wound up moving to Louisiana later that year in 2020, I think you guys came like that September or something August. And yeah, and then you live there up until just this past September. And so what was your experience like in dads last years? Was it what you expected? I mean, what do you take from that, you know, five years you got, you guys had to gather and of course with us too, especially with mom and dad. It's hard to think about having really an expectation. I don't think I knew what to expect really. But it just became like a natural ebb and flow of living with family because we were right next door. We could walk down there in minutes and, you know, their house is always open or you can just come in anytime, just kind of knock on your way in. And I was like, hey, you know, every time we walked in. So it just became this kind of, just this natural flow of family living next door, which brought such deep connection that you couldn't really get if we lived in town and even had, even down there, if we lived in town, it had to drive out that 30 minutes to come out and see them with work, people get busy, you know, this all your in town. Yeah. It just wouldn't have been so easy. So it made it, it made them accessible physically, which made them more accessible emotionally for that connection to happen. Which I think it was wise of you to deduce that my dad, he basically lived a line off of Jeremiah Johnson when he's like, I've been to a town. I don't want to go back. He just does, you know, he just didn't, that's where he was at. He was gonna stay there no matter what. Well, he only went once a week and that was to meet with the brothers as he would say or to, you know, share the gospel and do what he did and the rest time he did it out there. You titled the book I never knew and it feels I want you to tell the story of where that came from. Cause that's a very powerful part of the narrative and when dad said those words, so to tell that story where I never knew came from. How that happened? Y'all had arranged for us to come down to visit and meet everybody. So this was in February of 2020. I guess, yeah, it was 20. And so we got there and you and Lisa picked us up from the airport and we jumped in the truck with you and just kind of visited on the way and as we pulled up into Y'alls driveway, I saw dad and Miss Kay standing there side by side and it was, you know, it was nervous. I didn't know, I had no expectation. What is a person expecting that moment but I wondered like is he gonna, you know, is he going to reject me? Is he going to accept me and Y'all had said he's not nurturing? You'd said he's not touchy-feely. And so I walk up there not knowing what to expect and when I did, he reached out his hands and he put his hands on either side of my face and just looked into my eyes and he said, I never knew. And I mean, it was just that moment where, you know, if he had said anything else, I can't imagine if he had said anything else. It was the first thing he said and the first thing he needed to say that he had he known about me all my life, it would have been different. So it helped me to understand that it's not like he knew about me all my life and just failed to reach out. Yeah, and I want to read these words. These are from the forward. So these are dad's words. I felt like since dad, you know, is obviously not physically with us, it is great that he left this behind. And this is powerful to go with what you just said. He said, I'm going to be honest with you. I was nervous about meeting her. I wouldn't have blamed her if she had spit in my face and told me to take a hike. I was also fearful that I had passed on to her my predisposition to debauchery and addiction to sin. Is she promiscuous like I was? Is she a drunk or a drug user like I once was? Is she mean and hateful to the people who lover the most like I was? When it came time to meet her face to face, I had a speech prepared for her, a lengthy one. And then the day finally came and I stood outside with this came, a long lost daughter walked up to me and I'm not going to lie, I was afraid. And that got me that one thing. Cause I, you know, I've never known dad to be afraid of anything. And so for him to say that and be honest about his feelings was very powerful to me. And then he said dreadfully so. At this point, my prepared speech had evaporated into thin air. So with tears streaming down both my face and hers, I took her face in my hands. I looked her straight in the eyes and I said the only words that I could, I never knew, I never knew. And I mean, it's just, it's such a powerful moment to such a powerful man, you know, from our perspective, but it also showed the humility. And I noticed, Phil, the first probably, I don't know how many hundred words of dad's forward was him talking about what a bad person he was. And then he pivoted when he got to that point about coming to know Christ. And so I think part of this whole thing, late in life and Zach, I don't know that you and I could have ever, and none of us could have ever foreseen this, but almost saw dad grappling with the old man versus the new man he had become. Even in this final years, of realizing how powerful forgiveness is and the love of Christ is and the Holy Spirit. And I don't know, it just brought some things to light and dad, I don't think he ever thought he would grapple with again, because kind of when you bury an old man, you never expect to leave anything from that past life. And so Phil, as it was interesting, because he had this new perspective and a chance to look back and you really brought that to it. And I think it turned out to be a great gift because there was a tenderness about him that he showed with you that I think neither Jason or I really ever saw that much out, to be honest, as young man and growing up, maybe Jeff a little more because he only knew him as a Christian man. But for us, it was a different dad, I think sort of in his waning years. I mean, that's my observation. Is that what you all thought, Jason or Zach? Yeah, I thought the same thing. I mean, you know, I look back on it's just my synopsis of the situation. I thought it was incredibly difficult for you, Philus, to come into a famous family, because you realize all our lives are just blurs. I mean, we're going rip and tearing and there's so much false information out there and all this kind of thing. And I thought, man, what a challenge for you to come into that. But then on the other side, personally, when my dad, I thought, hmm, you have no idea. Because I remember the first conversation I had with you, I don't know if I was the first person who taught, we taught. You were the last brother, that's actually in the book. Even though the book's not a memoir, I do share stories just to give everything context. But you were the last brother to call. Okay, well I called him, we talked a long time. And I was trying to like prepare you for. Yeah. Because even though, you know, we all loved that and you know, he's a mighty warrior for Jesus, I was like, man, he's pretty rough. You know, just as a dad, well like what Al said mildly, I mean, to say there was no emotional connection or no bit of softness. And you know, I'm familiar with the female race of our planet. I'm like, trust me, this could be difficult for you. Yeah, just he's just a hard man. And but I see he was tender-hearted toward me. He just was. I was so fascinated on seeing this side of my dad come out, which he really, you would see that more as he even when he got sick and just with the grandkids and all. I mean, it's like you once you kind of peel back that layer of toughness of something beautiful to watch. And it was needed. I really think he came full circle in some of the fruits of the spirit that had been lacking. And so that's kind of my view of how that happened. You asked a question earlier, Phyllis, you were asking about how do we, what was it about your story that kind of was? I mean, we should look into this for me. And I think this is a Holy Spirit thing, but we had, I'd just written the story for the blind. And a lot of the story that was based on interviews that I had with Phil, with Jace, with Owl. All you guys are super helpful. I mean, there's, in fact, that one scene in the movie where Jace and Owl come out to visit Phil and that trailer when he's living in the woods, that was the story that Jace told me directly. That we changed it a little bit in the movie because in real life, that was Jace going out with Michael Tommy, but it was like this moment. So I had all this history of the interviews and I'd written the story for it. I'm not sure if we had done the script yet. I think we may have just finished the script too. And there's a moment where Phil is in the original script where he's in the woods, he had gone off the deep end and he had had, he was having all these affairs and there's a particular woman. And in the script, he had read here, which is so weird. We just kind of just came up with that. And so when I was reading your letter, like I had already done all these interviews and had all this collective knowledge of the family that was kind of like, I'd piecemeal together and done the kind of investigative work this. And I was like, guys, I was thinking, this fits in line with the story. And then when we met and I remember you telling me about your mom, I was like, oh, that's weird. That's weird because you have strawberry blonde hair or blonde hair. Yeah, yeah, red hair. Yeah, red hair. So it was kind of weird how that and overlap with the story that we already told. And so I don't know why we picked that out. So I thought the Holy Spirit was kind of aligning that. And then we had, you guys did DNA test, so we did all that and then it was like, okay, we can, I knew one first time we met. But that was like, what's that? But what is the, because the books not a memoir, we've talked a little bit about this because you were in town recently. I'd love for the audience to hear from your perspective, what kind of what, what do you hope in the comp? So the what is the book? Cause it has some of your stories in it. But it's a little, it's more than that. This is a book come from your background. It's a nurse and a lot of mental health stuff in here. Maybe we'll walk us through that. Yeah, it's a book about healing. And in part of the idea of I never knew is first of all, that's what that said to me first. But also looking back in my life, I realized how I never knew, even as a believer, what healing there was available to me as a person. The way that the Bible talks about being restored and renewed and beauty from ashes. So the stories that I tell in my book are stories, you know, current day and meet and y'all. It's also going back all the way to my early childhood though. And I share stories to give context to how we all respond to adversity and trauma. And by trauma, I'm talking about big T trauma relational trauma. So when we're injured by those who are really supposed to protect us and care for us and nurture us. So when that fails, and you can see, like you said, as a nurse and as I progress through the years and God opens doors and I see more clearly what my calling is and now I'm a counselor for children. The idea was like, wow, I've learned a lot. And a lot of healing happened in those five years when I was living beside Dad and his K and around you all. So when I look back and I see how God has healed me and where he has taken me and how knowledge is power and how we're transformed by renewing our minds. That's not just something you can read once in the Bible and be like, oh, God it, that's a process of renewal. And it does take some teaching. And I think some of that teaching and there's some middle health stigma still in the church or even in our country, probably in the world. I address all of that in this book and I'm like, this is what trauma looks like for children and these are the responses to trauma and this is what that looks like even into adulthood. And we bring all of these things into our marriages, into our parenting, into our lives and it is devastating some of those effects of trauma. But it's amazing the healing that can come when you really know what the Bible says about who you are and what God can do. Yeah, in your case, even the trauma was interesting. So I don't know, I haven't read the book yet. But I know you had some trauma that wasn't even really identified because you didn't know your family origin story. You had an assumption, but I'm sure that that was like this weird trauma that wasn't even identified in your life but it was like impacting you and you didn't realize it till later and then you have this aha moment. What was the test you took? Was it 23 and may or? Ancestry DNA. Yeah, you did the ancestry thing and the DNA test and then you're like, this gets back and you're like, oh my gosh. And you probably, I don't know, I'm assuming where you like, this makes a lot of sense now. Oh, 100%. I remember asking my mom once as an adult, I was in my 30s, I think, staying in her kitchen, she's cooking at the stove, I said, mom, are you sure that Wayne is really my dad? And she was, yeah. And I'm like, hmm, didn't sound convincing and I already knew I was different. I have a lot of things in common with my, I call them my Missouri siblings but we were all born down there in Louisiana but we've migrated to Missouri. But there are so many differences, personality difference, physical difference. So I always in the back of my head felt like something didn't quite click. There's a certain level of not belonging in this family and when a child grows up in a family feeling like they don't quite belong and then there's also abuse and neglect, it's kind of a perfect storm in a sense. Well, and I have say, Phyllis, that was one of the things that, one of the excerpts that dad said in the forward, he said the thought that I had left a little girl alone to fend for herself and fight her battles all by herself was too much. And he was talking about when the idea, he was skeptical at first. And part of the reason why I think he was hoping it wasn't true only because then he would have to face that because that's a heavy thing. And I'll admit, the first time, so you and Tony and Lisa and I spoke together in the event last year by the summer. And so I had never really heard you tell your story. I mean, you and I have had a lot of conversations but there were still pieces of it, with anybody you don't know everything. And so you shared some things in that session we did about your life. And I just, I sat there in webbed because I had the exact same feeling dad had. Like, I mean, you're my little sister. And so I felt in that moment when you were sharing that trauma from your childhood that I wish I could have been there to do something. I wish I could have been there to protect you. I wish I could have been there to try to help my sister because you're my sibling. And I would feel that way about any sibling. And so I think in those moments, that shows some of our, when people go through things, when you look back later, you're thinking, man, why couldn't I have been there to protect? And so there's a lot of guilt and conscience things that go with that. And now your counselor, this is kind of your new career. And so how do you use some of the things that you put in the book as well as just your life experiences? As you're now trying to help a lot of children, a lot of families that are in tough situations. And how does that relate over sort of the ministry job you're doing now? Well, it's powerful because I'm very empathetic. Like I can literally put myself in their shoes. And not everybody experiences the same thing, but the fallout from it is typically very similar. And so I'm able to see the heart of a child. And I think like what would I go back and tell myself when I was three or seven or 12? What wisdom and what encouragement would I speak into a child into my life? And then I take that and I'm like, I can speak that into a child's life now. And that's my heart. Yeah, and you never really thought you'd be doing this, right? You are a nurse when you came in there. And so really the whole life change for you in your experiences and meeting us and becoming, you know, a regular part of the Ryerson family, really sort of reshaped how you wanted to go forward. Did those things link together, you think? Was it the experience that led you to want to do this and do this kind of different pathway for you? Definitely. And surprisingly, you all may not know this, but dad was a huge cheerleader of mine. He would see my work schedule as a nurse and let's drag. I'm like, who? You know, that's us. I don't know how you're keeping a schedule like that. You know, so we could talk about that. And then he would, you know, I would, I would sometimes complain about work, you know, like I'm going into work, you know, just came in and say hello, where I just got home from work, something like that. And he would, he would pray he would bring, you know, he'd get his Bible out and encourage me with some verses. And he just talked to me about how much I was showing mercy to others and like how important the work I would, you know, that I was doing. And just as we talk through that and again, as I'm reflecting and seeing that healing in the book does this too, just a deep dive into forgiveness. Talk about needing to walk through some forgiveness. My dad wasn't there to protect me because I'm pretty sure if people had known my dad, I think there would have been a lot less happen to me if they had thought Phil Robertson might show up being the kind of person he was. So yeah, there's definitely a lot of forgiveness, even forgiven him, forgive him my mom for, you know, for what she allowed to happen and what happened. So there is a deep dive into forgiveness and that had, I had to walk that out those five years. One of the big things that I think you gotta do too in overcoming trauma is you have to speak out what's happened. And so, I mean, it's so funny because even like what happened with, you know, your story and Phil found an out about you a year later, it's actually very common now because the way that people are tracking DNA and the way that people are subscribing to it because Phil never submitted his DNA. I think this is important. I mean, he never submitted his DNA. You submitted your DNA and they're building this tree of information that they were able to isolate your genetic code to my grandparents, our grandparents. And so, since you were related to both migrating and Paul, although they were, I think cousins. Something went all the way up in the family tree. I could see it, I could find it out on the family tree. There were cousins. Yeah, we're hearing our dirty laundry now. That's what I wanted to ask is I'm kind of backing up, but I don't know if I ever found this out. So, you look up on this tree, however this works. And then, what did you do when you saw the names? Did you do an internet search? Because what I'm getting at is, I mean, most people I think who are listening to us would think, how did you get past the first picture you see of your actual biological family? Well, she starts with the grandparents, right? Yeah, it was the grandparents. So, these are old. There was a UN maybe, Robertson or something like that. Yeah, that was Paul's dad was UN. Okay, so those were like 100% my great grandparents. So, because you can track, you know, it trickles down to cousins. And so, there were cousins that had completed it. And so, all of that happened and I figured out, where I kind of was in that tree. And then I confronted my mom. So, I didn't have pictures of y'all going like, oh, okay, yeah, that didn't come until after. And then when you saw this, you thought, because it's great that you don't have a beard, I guess. What I'm getting at is you're like, wait, what? Give her time, give her time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right, that's right. No, I think, you know, everything that I saw when I did look him up or look y'all up, it was just, you know, this is this Christian family. In my siblings, my brother and sister had watched the show. And so, there was this idea of y'all being a strong Christian family. So, I kind of leaned into that. And remember, I came down in that December, just to kind of scope it out. Like, I think this is who my dad is. It's not proven. And he's up there boldly for claiming the gospel. Yeah. So, I felt pretty good. The beard didn't matter. Because you could have been, I mean, you could have been a descendant. Well, you had isolated it to, well, who we call granny and Paul. So, you were the daughter of one of the five boys in that family. So, genetically, it could have been any one of those five as what you had isolated it to. And then, when you talk to your mom, she told you it's the guy with the duck whistle. Yep. And that's one of your chapters, right? I think that's chapter one. The man who makes the duck whistles, that's what she calls it. When we find out, Willie was like, there's a movie title, The Man Who Makes The Duck whistle. Which makes me think that it was an accident that I said that and organized that service, the day you were there. I mean, which is just kind of weird to me, but I think God organized that, orchestrates that. But you find this out. And so, I have actually several people when y'all story came out. I had several people like the same thing happened to me. And one of my friends, who this happened to, his wife could not handle this. And sadly, they end up getting a divorce over it. But I think about healing and going through these things, like, you've said this so many times as a minister and a counselor and even your own story. And then it stuck with me. This has been one of the wisest things that you've taught me is how I said this, you got to detonate your own time bomb. And what he means about that is we got to get this stuff out and just speak it out. But so many people with like trauma, your mom had trauma, your mom had the shame of this encounter with Phil that resulted in the birth of you. And she's got the secret. She's just holding back all those years. You think man, it's so unnecessary. But just get it out. Just get the truth out. It will be painful sometimes. But just get it out. Pull the covers off so that healing can begin. I think that's the key part of the story. So awesome. And look, I'm going to have to read something based on what you just said, the bomb. And then getting it out, this is an excerpt from the book. Trauma doesn't just shape our behavior. It quietly becomes our identity. The ways we learn to survive begin to feel like who we are, not just what we do. Letting them go can feel terrifying as though healing requires us to erase ourselves rather than be restored. But healing is not the loss of self. It is the slow unveiling of who we were designed to be all along. It is the movement for being defined by survival to being truly known by God and by ourselves. And while that kind of change feels impossible at first, it is not annihilation. It is recognition that we are putting the past behind us and moving forward to what lies ahead. Philippians 313. That's good. That's so good. So good. So it's I never knew finding healing and renewal after trauma. And you can go to INeverNewBook.com. And there's a picture up on the screen. I feel like dad needs the final word here, Philipp. And so I'm going to read the last excerpt from the forward. He says, one thing I know is that time is short. The resurrection looms closer and closer for me as I'm writing this, it's becoming clear to me that I'm not what I used to be. My body's breaking down. I find it harder and harder to remember things. Way harder. The old doc told me recently they had the same condition many of my siblings had dementia. That's bad news for most people, but you won't find me growing them on and about it, not at all. I'm ready to meet my best friend Jesus in person. My hope is that when you get to this book's end and he's talking about Phyllis's book, you will not, you will only utter one simple question. Is God good or what? And so I can't think of a better endorsement, Phyllis than dear old dad, even from across the pale telling folks to get this book. So I understand, nation just want to challenge you guys. Phyllis is doing presales now. Look, you guys can help make this success. We told her story first to you. And so if you want to dive deeper into that and where Phyllis is going now with her ministry and helping other people, check it out and get this book. Phyllis, you're always welcome. It's always good. I'm glad you're in Missouri. I want to talk more about your grandkids and what you're doing, but maybe we'll do that next time we come home. Yeah, yeah, we'll do that. And maybe even get Gordon on here. We, you know, he's helping. Oh, yeah, by the way, Gordon, Zach's dad, who co-wrote Dad's last two books, also goes wrote with Phyllis on this project as well. So it's a family affair. It's a family affair. We love you, Phyllis. And thank you for writing this. It's going to help a lot of folks. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.