The Deadly Grandma & The Doppelgänger - Austin, Arkansas

Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah, Choo Choo! Oh yeah indeed Jimmy, yeah indeed. My name is James Petrogallum here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another action-packed crazy edition of Small Town Murder Express. You know us, we stuff as much murder as we can into this hour of express. So before we get started very quickly, shut up and give me murder.com is where to go not only for your merchandise or information but tickets to live shows full slate of 2026 live shows are for sale and some of them are selling extremely fast. So Salt Lake City, Salt Out and a day are ready gone. So a lot of these you want to get your tickets right now, they start out February 21st in Nashville. Let's go! 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This week for small town murder, we're going to talk about the whole Dean Coral Wayne Henley thing. This was a horrible murder or Dean Coral who recruited a teenage, I guess kind of a teenage Galein Maxwell almost to like bring teenage boys into his little thing and then the teenage boy who was left at the end really was holding the bag for a lot of us. So we're going to talk about how much of this is his fault, how much is, you know, this kid just a poor kid who was in a bad situation. We'll talk all about that. That's patreon.com slash crime in sports and in addition to all of that, you also get everything we put out crime in sports, your stupid opinions and small town murder all add free, add free with your pay what a deal. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. So that said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say here? Let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout. Shout out. Let's give me murder. Let's do this everybody. Let's go. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah. We're going to Arkansas this week. No. Here we go. Oh, yes. Yes, Jimmy. Yes, Arkansas. Austin, Arkansas. What? Yes. Why? There's an Austin in like every state, by the way, it's hilarious. Really? There's an Austin, Minnesota. There's an Austin, Arkansas. Why are we doing this? I don't know. I don't know why we keep doing this. But here we are. Yet again, this is in central Arkansas. It's about a half hour outside Little Rock. So it's a suburb of Little Rock. It's about two hours to Memphis. If you go the other direction on the 40 and about five minutes to our last Arkansas episode. So close Cabot Arkansas. That was the last one episode 623 on Deadly Ground, which not only is the name of a Steven Sagaal movie, but a crazy story. That was a terrible movie. Terrible movie, but we did a much better job than he did with that name. Put it that way. That was the one with the real estate agent. That was really creepy, man. This is in Lone Oak County, or Lone Oak County, area code 501 population 3486. Oh, not a big place to be 30 minutes out. Outside of the state capital and that kind of thing. Median household income here is higher than the national average. It's 78,878. It's 69,000 in the rest of the country because it's this is like if you want to move. It's a little leafier than Little Rock type of deal. Median home cost though is still very low. Median home cost here, $201,900. Because it's still Arkansas. It's still still central Arkansas. So that's not bad as far as income to housing there. A little bit of history. The city was settled in 1872 when the railroad built tracks about one mile southeast of Old Austin. There was an old Austin. There was Austin. It was called Austin at the time, not Old Austin. Then many of the residents of Old Austin moved a mile near the railroad tracks. They literally uprooted and dragged buildings places. They put buildings on a cart and just dragged it. Merged it. And so the new city near the tracks was known as Austin station to distinguish it from that Austin. That's a mile away. Sure. And then it just became known as Austin. So then they had to change the other Austin to Old Austin. You changed. We changed. Yeah. Why should we change? You're the one that sucks. So now it's Austin and Old Austin. Reviews of this town because we don't know what the hell we're in for now. Maybe you people do and we'll find out here. Here we go. Here's four stars. There's only two reviews total of this town. Small place with the 3,400 people or whatever. Austin, Arkansas is a quiet family friendly community with a small town feel. Sure. I would think so. There's 3,400 people here. That would be a better big and a strong sense of neighborly support. I appreciate the peaceful atmosphere, low crime rate and the overall safety it offers, especially for raising a family. The schools are solid and the town continues to grow at a comfortable pace without losing its charm. How to medium pace. One area for improvement would be more access to local amenities like grocery stores, restaurants and recreational facilities, you know, like a food, like a bigger town. That's what you're asking for. I like the small town feel, but I'd like all the conveniences of the bigger town but without the people, which I'd like these things to be open just for me, essentially, is what that is. I need the places that are supported by large amounts of population to be just for me. Overall, Austin's a great place to live if you value peace, space and community. Here's four stars. Austin's slash Cabot has a small town feel, but it's very close to the larger metropolitan area of Little Rock, providing multiple opportunities. There you go. Sure. Yeah, it should be opportunities for restaurants and grocery shopping and all that stuff. It's all right there. Things to do in this town. What is it? Okay, we have the Ozark Roots Dullsimer Festival. I don't want Ozark Roots. And also the Arkansas State Dullsimer Championships take place at the same time. What is Dullsimer? Well, I'm going to show you. I was hoping you'd ask Jimmy. Well, first of all, there's the guy holding it. He looks like a prospector. He does. He does. That's a Dullsimer. Yeah, it looks like a piece of art. Yeah. It's a guitar where it looks like a small boat that they put strings across. Yeah, like a little canoe mixed with a lute mixed with a guitar. Or is this a canoe for ants? It looks like a four-stringer, I believe. It seems like four strings. That's what it is. It makes it sounds tinny. Makes bluegrass sounds. There you go. It does shit like that. So they say whether you want to hone your musical abilities or learn to play the mountain or hammer Dullsimer for the first time, the animal hammer Dullsimer. Is that what playing it is called? Is that what they call it? It sounds like a hammered shit. Is what that sounds like. Yeah. Some animal, their excrement's called Dullsimer. Oh yeah, no, that's the excrement of a badger. It's called Dullsimer. You got a hammered. Sounds like they're trying to rock and roll up the least rock and roll thing up. It's really good. It's going to hammer Dullsimer, babe. Well, whether you're the first time in that, the annual Dullsimer jamboree workshops are a great opportunity to relax, get hands on, and make music with fellow musicians. You bet. People who don't know how to play this weird instrument make your plans now. Not only that, there's other things going on there, not too much. There's performances, but nobody that they'll tell us about. I don't think ludicrous will be here, which is surprised about ludicrous doing his Dullsimer set. This is what he does. Is this right? It's all Dullsimer set is what this is. We just had the best line of ever. That was so funny. The last episode. The last episode. You can't escape ludicrous. I'm telling you, there's at least seven or eight ludicry frowing this round. They got to be. They have. There's not one man doing all this at camping. Otherwise, he's laughing at us all the way to the bank. Yeah, baby. So yeah, you have to do that. And then the Arkansas State Dullsimer championships on Friday evening and all day Saturday. Oh, Jesus. You will be Dullsimered out. Prudel. You can go to the top registration for new beginner, intermediate and advanced mountain Dullsimer and hammered Dullsimer players. You can click there and this is my favorite. Need a place to stay or eat? Well, always. Yeah. This is great. The skillet restaurant at the Ozark folk center offers classics. Other than it's a truck stop is what that is. And you can stay there. I think you can stay there. Yeah. Sleep under. Cabins at dry creek or modern duplex rooms to meet a variety of needs. Dry creek. Dry creek. That sounds great. That's sad. Oh, man. Let's talk about some murder here. Let's do it. Let's get into this. Let's talk about a lady first here. Okay. Let's talk about Barbara Joe Basinger. Barbara Joe. Barbara Joe. Barbara Joe Basinger. She's born September 2nd, 1933. Good Lord, Barbara. Yes. She's around. She is. Now, not sure exactly where she's from because I got real mixed up because there was a woman with her exact same married name. It's a long story, but they're born like the same year around the same time. And I thought it was her. So I thought I had information from her obituary about birth and all that. But then it turns out it was a completely different person. Wow. Which was crazy because their husbands later on have initials. This Barbara Joe's future husbands initials are JW. And that's what he goes by. The other Barbara Joe is married to a guy named JT with the same with the same last name. So it was very confused. I was like, is somebody just wrong about the T and the W? What's going on here? And I can't be bothered. It's a mess, man. Oh, it can. Me, it picture me at two in the morning just punching myself in the four. Welcome to our house. Who are you? So Barbara Joe, she is going to marry James W still STI LL still keep persisting. He goes by JW. That's his name. Should I mean the other lady had JT. He's born June 26th, 1936. James had four brothers and a sister. He was born in St. Joseph's in 36. His parents are Rufus and Versi Lee. Versi. V-I-R-C-E. Versi. Versi, yeah. Vers, I don't know. Lee, that's it. He was in the United States Air Force and was a major in the Air Force and retired and had been living. They're going to, so they end up, you know, starting a family. They have two daughters and a son. I think Pamela, Carmen are the daughters and James is the son. After him, I assume, but he's James G instead of James W. Now again, they raise some kids. This is about all I know about them. They raise some kids in Arkansas in the Yelville area they're living. Yikes. Yelville. Wow. So Wednesday, November 7, 1979, JW is dead. What? He's just running. JW doesn't wake up. No, he's found in his home with a gunshot wound. Oh, shit. Yeah. So 79, so that would make him 40, 46. 43 at that point. He was born at that point. Oh, he's like 36. Yeah. He's only 43. This is ruled a suicide. So yeah, he, I don't know what made him, I don't know if it was a suicide. He was a young man. Yeah, being out of the military. A lot of people have a hard time with transitions. Sure. Like athletes have a hard time when they retire. And I assume if you're, if you're especially a successful officer in the military, you might get, you might kind of feel bored or not know what your purpose is or something when you're done. Ameless. That, aimless, but either way, he is, he's dead. Or he could be an alcoholic son of a bitch who's got a problem with that. He's a man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No clue. So either way, Barbara Joe is upset about this. Here now she's a single mom. The kids are getting older. You know, they're moving out of the house and all that. By 1984, she's a grandma and she's with a new person. Okay. So she gets her life together here in about five years and is ready to start over again. And she finds Floyd Gibson Jr. He's born 1930. So he's a couple years older than her. He had just retired, actually. This is just retired. He worked for Jonesboro City, Water and Light and he was a maintenance supervisor. Utility man. Yeah, utility man. He was a plant maintenance supervisor. Oh, shit. Yeah. So he's got a son also from a previous relationship, everything like that. So they get together. Her and Floyd Gibson Jr. From what I found, Floyd was married in 1949 for the first time. So yeah, he's, it's been a while. Now they start hanging out with each other and then she moves in with him late 1984, early 1985. Okay. They move in together in this area, in the Austin area here. Now March of 1986, they've been living together. Apparently Floyd's sister is looking for Floyd and can't find him. No. No. Barbara Joe is the one she gets a hold of and Barbara Joe said he just walked out. He left me. He just left. Oh, he's gone. He's forever gone. He had two suitcases and $14,000 in cash and he walked out the door. I don't know where he went. He hasn't contacted me. It's 1986. We don't have cell phones. I don't know. And this thing's over. Could be anywhere. Yeah, don't know where he is. If you find him though, you know, let him know I'm looking for him basically. So now they have to find him. You know, because he is a missing person at this point. He's not contacting his family, which is strange. So there's 14 grand in two suitcases. He's on the line. He could be in Mexico with like eight women feeding him grapes at this point. It's 19, you know, the mid 80s. He could be in Memphis long way, not having a great time. Yeah. In Memphis, risk trying to get away from being stabbed. Yeah. So the investigation officer gauge of the Arkansas police force here, the state police. He's investigating the disappearance. And when he does, one of the things that you're looking for with a missing person is your tractor financials. Sure. What's their bank account been doing? If they've been writing checks, you know, that way. He's got 14 grand in cash. He could be in. That's the thing. Yeah. Well, they found out also in his bank account, he had about $64,000. Oh. But since then, this is a joint bank account with Barbara Joe. Yeah. Since he's disappeared or they think anyway, they don't know since about mid January, late January, the accounts just been drained by Barbara Joe. Barbara Joe's been making draining it goes from $64,000 to $5,000 in his bank account. That's fast. Yeah. 1984, that's a lot of money. 59 grand, you got to be working to spend that. Oh, absolutely. They also learned that she'd been accepting the monthly $1,000 interest payments on a certificate of deposit owned by him as well. So she's taking his dividends as well here. Yeah. And she had traded Floyd's pickup truck for a new one. Oh, so who the hell locks out with two suitcases and $14,000, but doesn't take their car? And just the shoes? Just the shoes on their feet walking down the road with, that makes no sense. Now, everything that happened here, her accepting the payments, the draining of the bank account, the trading of the truck all happened after late January of 86. So they're like, okay, there's a definite point where she just starts spending the money. Yeah. So they're trying to figure out was he around still during that time. So April, 1986, the police are talking to Barbara Joe, interviewed by the same officer gauge here. And Barbara Joe tells him the same story that she told the sister. She said in May, or in March, I'm sorry, he took off, just walked out with his shit. So then in May, she comes back to the police department and says, I have something that may be helpful for you. Very good. This is a quote farewell note. Oh, fairly well. Dear John letter, basically, dear Barbara Joe letter that she said that Floyd had written and left in her screen door. This is between the last time they talked in April and now. So this just popped up in my door. Yeah, this wasn't from before and I forgot the given to you. This is, he must be back. And for some reason, three months later, decided to drop me a fucking line. So September of 1986, they get a search warrant for her house, which they hadn't done yet. The reason is talking to all the neighbors to see if they had found or knew anything about Floyd or where he'd gone or anything, just some insight on Floyd's life. Neighbors said, I don't know, but ever since about late January, Barbara Joe has been keeping a fire going in her yard all day and night, nonstop, night stop fire, like, perpetre a hunter fire. Yeah, there's a, yeah, there's a hole in her yard that at this point, they said there's a fabricated shed put on top of it. Now there's a shed, but over that spot for basically from late January all the way through February, she just had fires going constantly for over a month. A turn off flame. Yeah. So they found the operator of the dump truck who'd been summoned by her to fill the hole. And he said that there were old timbers in the hole, which should be removed before filling, but that Barbara Joe was adamant and refusing to let them move the timbers from move the whatever wood chunks that were in this hole, saying that the hole was the location of an old septic tank. So don't disturb it. Oh, that's what she said. Another thing they noticed is that she's a quilter. Oh, Barbara Joe. Yeah, she said at this point, she's a grandma. She quilts and everything. So one of her neighbors said she really admired one of her quilts. This is just a stitch work on it. Beautiful. Warm. And one day she asked Barbara Joe, hey, where's that quilt that you always had out on the couch? I love that. That's my favorite one. Yeah. Where is that? And she said that Barbara Joe, like acted real shocked and real flustered for a minute and then said, it was stolen. It was stolen. We all know about these quilts. That's a damn nice quilt. There's quilt thieves out there. That's all they're looking for. They're not looking for jewels. They're not looking for cash or electronics. They want quilts. They know what a grandma quilt is worth on the open market. You do believe this. There's a lot of quilt. Yeah. Tell you why you take that to downtown Little Rock. There's a bandit on the loose. Oh, downtown Little Rock at about two o'clock in the morning. You get yourself some real nice for that quilt. Let me tell you. So that's an odd thing. So Barbara Joe's got a stolen quilt and it's been made doing fires for nine months. So that's strange. That's why they get a search warrant based on all this shit. It just sounds suspicious. It's enough because they have no other trace of him. It's enough to get a search warrant. They're going to start with where that shed is. That's the shirt. Number one, they searched the house obviously for forensics. After that, they said, let's go ahead and do that. They pull the shed off of it and they dig about 34 inches below the ground. Just below three feet. Yeah. They find something. They do. It's a quilt. Oh, is it the quilt? It's the quilt. It's the stolen quilt. It's the stolen quilt. It's the stolen quilt. It's the stolen quilt. We found the quilt. The problem is inside the quilt is Floyd. Oh, no. It's dead Floyd wrapped up in her prize quilt. Floyd stole her quilt and jumped into the ground and then built a fire on top of himself. That's 14 grand in there. That's impressive. So yeah, they're like a barb. Yeah. Under arrest. Found your quilt, found your man. So October 1986, barb has a new story of what happened. Yeah. Cause you got to do that. Up to this point, all she had was he left. And now we know that's a lie. So what's going on? So she came to this officer gauge and said, I want to change my story. Yes. Okay. You're right. It was mid-January when he took off. In fact, he left me on January 14th, but he came back on January 15th. Changed his mind next day. Yeah. You know, that quilt is irresistible. You got a lady who can make a quilt. You got to come back for that. He left on the road. He ran out of peanut butter and just wanted that quilt. He just needed it. So she said that day, he threatened her with a gun, saying that if she wouldn't marry him, he would kill her and then himself. You're going to marry me. And for yesterday, I didn't want to be with you at all today. I will kill myself if you don't marry me, which is a real flighty here, a real labile here this morning. It really vacillates a lot. So she then said she ran away from him out of the house, not down the street, not to a neighbor, just into the woods. She ran away screaming and just ran through the way into the trees, which who does that? She said at that, a seven year old would do that because they don't know what else to do. So she said as she was running through the woods there, trying not to get clothes lined by a branch, she heard a gunshot back at the house. So she stayed in the woods for a little while, didn't hear anything else. So then she returned to the house and she said there was Floyd dead on the floor with the gun laying right next to him. Oh, there he was. Guess what? I'm just going to give you a one partner committing suicide. Any more than that, it's your fault. I'm sorry. You say it any more than one person, people are going to have problems. If more than one of your spouses kills themselves, you drive people to come to the night that's what that means. You're fault. I'm blaming you for that shit. Either that or you killed both of those people. That's that too. Yeah. I guess probably psychologically people who are into people with depression probably seek out people in that sense, but you know, still just anecdotes. Three though. I'm giving you shame on all of us. Three forget about it. Forget about it. I don't even care if people watch this person leap off the 80th story of a building, I'm still taking you down. You did this. It's over on three. So yes, he's on the floor. She said she didn't know what to do. So she wrapped the body up in this quilt in the good one, the good quilt and put it in her garbage. She put it in the garbage. She is strong. I don't know how she got a fucking grown man in the garbage. Well, I've done wait. She said later she thought about it though, went in the house and she's like, well, I mean, the garbage men are going to tell you they're going to wonder why it's so heavy and there's blood everywhere and why I'm throwing out my good quilt. So then she said she went back outside in the middle of the night and dragged the body out of the garbage into the yard and buried it. She said she didn't think she'd be accused of any crime. She said the only reason I did this is because I wanted to bury him in the yard so he was close to me because my first husband who died from suicide from a gun as well had been taken from her and buried in a place that she couldn't visit. Which I don't know where that was. I don't know if they took him to Thailand or something. Yeah, it's like where the hell is it? He's in Sri Lanka. I don't know where he was. I don't get it. Yeah, I don't know if maybe because he was in the military might have been a military, a military cemetery where he probably or a family plot in another state, whoever it was, not where she could go. I mean, she could, but I don't really have the means to. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you how to get the best clothes easier and much less expensive with Quince, Quince dot com to you, I n c e dot com. So it thoughtfully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that mix well and that last, you know, it looks like garbage after two times that you wear it. That's where Quince shines premium fabrics considered designs and everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear and dependable even as the seasons change. Quince has the everyday essentials that you're going to love and that we love with quality that last they have lightweight cashmere sweaters, shorts leave Mongolian cashmere polos, linen bottoms and shorts. 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So the medical examiner, they say that the wound that killed Floyd Gibson was not the sort associated with suicide. Oh, so this is not suicide because the bullet entered between the eye and the ear and went from the rear other than from one side of the head to the other. If you shoot yourself, you put it in your temple, it comes at the other side. If you do it, nobody puts a gun to the back of their head behind your ear. Or I'm sorry, it was between the eye and ear but came from the back. So it's a suicide shot. I mean, I guess it could have somebody tried to pull it away. It's a slip. Oh, I got a friend James that tried to come and suicide. Oh, yeah, talked about this. Oh boy, that's hard. It's falling down his eyes, the poor bastard. Oh, that's horrifying. Unbelievable. But that's possible too here. Who knows? Maybe he got startled. Maybe also the gun that she gave to them, they said, well, where's the gun he killed himself with? She said, this gun is the one he had next to him. The ballistics tests show that that's not the gun that killed him. What is she doing? So this is not good. And there's no other guns found. What in the fuck, lady? This is real bad. Then they figure also the medical examiner looking him over says he's been dead since late January. So she wasn't that's what it happened. As soon as he was dead, she started draining the bank accounts, started doing whatever. So then, out of nowhere, an anonymous caller calls up to mention the death of J. W. Still, her first husband. Yeah. An anonymous caller says you need to look back into that. Right. So one of the detectives here said we're just looking into it right now to see if everything was up to snuff back then, meaning the investigation of that death. He said that the investigation of J. W. Still's death is more or less a background investigation of her. Okay. They said any information that might change the ruling, you know, we'd be interested in meaning from suicide to homicide. So this goes on. They actually reopened the case of her ex-husband or her dead husband. And yeah, reinvestigated. And they say that quote, we've reinvestigated the 1979 case, which was first investigated by then Sheriff Billy Joe Purdom. Of course, his name's Billy Joe and have found his files and the statement of witnesses to be complete. The Marion County case is no longer being investigated and the death continues to be considered a suicide. They have no new evidence, essentially. No. They don't. So rather than go, they don't have anything to do. So they just go, everything's fine. Which of course we're real. Everyone's real suspicious, obviously. So they take her to trial and they said her assets, the assets that Floyd had were frozen after his body was found. And just before his disappearance, this is a key factor that they think for motive. Like two weeks before he disappeared, he had given Barbara Joe power of attorney, allowing her to access his certificates of deposit and accounts in more than one financial institution. So she right before she got access. To everything that she didn't need his signature to get money and do things. And then like two weeks later, he's dead. The state police said that she withdrew not only from bank account, but from investments about $80,000 between the time she was arrested in May and when he disappeared in late January to spend $80,000 in the middle of fucking nowhere in Arkansas in 1986. You got to work. My word. I don't even have like Amazon or anything like online to just go do real quick. There's none of that shit. No impulse, but you got to go to a place and buy shit. Like that's crazy. Barbara is going to testify. Really? She has no choice. It's competing narratives. She's got to say, I'm just a grandmother who quilts and I came in and I'm full of tragedy. It's all it is. She testified that he threatened to kill her and that she ran away. Same story. She believes he killed himself. Medical examiner says not how it works. Also, she gave us a gun that's not the same gun. So where's that gun? So the verdict comes in. They deliberate for less than two hours and they find her guilty of first-degree murder. Whoa. So first fucking degree. No. In two hours? First-degree murder. But it's the money. It's the money wasn't there. If she didn't touch his money, she could have got away with this. She really could have. But they looked at the money and they went, I don't think so. He gives you power of attorney. You start draining his accounts. He shoots himself. I don't know. So the judge says, you grandma may fuck off life in prison. Holy. Life for Barbara. She's going away. She's in her 65th late 50s. Late 50s. Going to have plenty of time for quilting in there. Wow. Yeah. That's life. And I don't know if it's without, but it seems like it's without because we'll talk about it here. She appealed in 87 on the sufficiency of evidence. Yeah. They're saying that the sufficiency of evidence against her was not enough to sustain her conviction because no one saw the killing. No murder weapon was found and there was no evidence of any motive on her part. Oh. Appeal score said there was plenty of evidence of motive. You stole tens of thousands of dollars. So that's a thing. And the other things, there's plenty of murders where there's no witnesses and just because you did a good job of hiding the murder weapon, doesn't mean that they can't convict you. That's not how it works. You actually the fact that you gave them another gun makes you look 10 times worse. For sure. If you gave them the actual gun, at least she's being honest. Yeah. So they said a defendant's false and improbable explanation of incriminating circumstances is admissible proof of guilt. Sure. So if you do some dumb shit, that counts against you. If you if you have a dumb story and it does. So they said the jury had before it's substantial evidence that Mrs. Miss still killed Mr. Gibson. So affirmed. So there we go. Then in 1990, she says ineffective assistance of counsel, just no bad assistance of counsel. That part was bad. Yep. He said that her first statement, her, her counsel failed to move to suppress her first statement to police, which she claims was the product of a custodial interrogation where she wasn't marandized. Then she says her counsel un reasonably advised her to make her second and third statements to police. Statements that were contradictory and were used to impeach her at trial. Oh, well, your your story is shitty. First of all, right. Yeah, your story sucks. It's terrible. Your lawyer should have told you to shut the fuck up. That's true. Yeah. But still, he also she also claims her counsel failed to make a motion to suppress admission into evidence checks, totaling $57,300 written by still from her joint account, payable to the attorney for the cost of her defense. All right. Why? Okay. You're not going to suppress that because that's still her using his money. His money. Yeah. That is admissible. That's not going to talk about that. Yeah. She's using it for something good. Nowadays, she wouldn't have been able to take that money and use it for the attorney. They wouldn't have let her. So they're saying basically that not the prosecution used her statements to impeach her, but had the statement been suppressed, the prosecution could have used her second statement, which she maintained her story that Gibson had left town, which we know is bullshit, too, because he's in the yard. And two witnesses also testified that Barbara had given them the same explanation of the whereabouts. So either way, her statements would have been in with other people saying that's what happened. So they said blind acceptance of the defendant's story may be improper. Counsel has a right to assume his client is telling the truth. Other counsel might have pursued a different strategy, but an assessing a counsel's performance, the courts must resist the temptation to second guess a lawyer strategy. Strategy is not competence. Having a having a dumb idea of how to execute this doesn't make you a bad lawyer. It's not an idea. It's still an idea and it's an attempt at a vigorous defense, which is all you can ask for. That's what it is. You just need to be outside the bounds of the law. Just need to be defended. That's it. I've confirmed again, Barbara Joe here. This is crazy. Barbara Joe at this moment in time is still in prison. Yeah. She's still in prison today. Yeah. Number seven, oh three, one zero zero. She's been there 40 years. Yeah. She's been there 40 years. She is life. I mean, she's what is she? 90 something year old woman. She's almost 90. She's going to be 90 this year. Wow. So that's that's what I found. And then I found an obituary of a different one that was a complete mess. That was tough. It says that she earned her GED in 1987. Nice job. In 2020 planning on getting out. Yeah. And the reason I knew it wasn't her that was dead is because in 2021, apparently from what I found, I think this is the same person. Barbara J. Still. How many old ladies named Barbara J. Still could be in the Arkansas State prison? How many? All of them? All of them. She was disciplinary violation for trafficking and trading. Oh. It's 2021, which was after the other Barbara Joe still died. Inter in JT husband. So I'm like, okay, good. Inter in this is trafficking. I apparently, I don't know what could be food or a cell phone or what. She's in the minimum level risk level you know, you know, she's 90. She's trafficking. You can. Yeah. I don't think she's going to attack anybody. Now, that's where she remains, I believe. So that said, I want to talk about a different murder. And normally it's best we do one murder or whatever, but these two murders, they're both crazy because I think she killed the first guy too. I bet she did. I tend to think she did. Yeah. Based on this, you know, I don't know. Yeah. Well, same scenario. Yeah. She could have also got the idea that that guy killed himself and everybody believed her. So why not? Why not this one? Yeah. But she probably didn't vary the first one in the yard. That's my other point. She left him just laying out if she did that. Yeah. Yeah. If you call the cops and you say, I shot somebody, but if you bury them in the yard, it's always going to look bad. Yeah. Anything you bury in the yard looks suspicious. Just anything. Yeah. Yeah. You can bury a. I can't. Why? Yeah. Why? Why are you burying it? So murder number two here. Okay. This is just the. Basically, this episode is worst excuses is what this is because Barbara Joe's. Yeah. Here's a gun that doesn't match. I buried him in a quilt because I wanted to be able to visit him. It's crazy. But yeah, it is a pales in comparison to this fucking idiot. Okay. All right. August 5th, 1994. David LaSalle. He's 45 years old. Yeah. He is a native of Generette. Arkansas. Yeah. Okay. And he lives in New Iberia, Arkansas. Where the fuck is that? Arkansas. New Iberia. No idea. Well, it's a new one. There's also an old one. There's Spain in Portugal. There's Spain in Portugal. And then there's this place. Yeah. You know, it's those. That's Iberia and New Iberia. That's how that works. He was the director of Parks and Recreation in the early 1970s from Oregon City. And he was a sales manager for an aviation company. Yeah. And then he, after that, he's been in the offshore boat industry for years. And recently found in a company of LaSalle Marine Inc. was that became a founding partner of that. In landlocked Arkansas. In landlocked Arkansas. The Mississippi, I suppose. Yeah. So this day, he and his cousin, so David, his cousin Henry, Henry Porter, who's 49 years old. And Henry's daughter Molly, who's 18 years old. So they're all going through a hike. They're going for a hike on a forest trail near the Longpool Recreation area in Pope County. Nice. Okay. Now they see a guy riding a six wheeled ATV. Sick. One of those bigger fuckers. Yeah. So they had a couple of encounters with ATV guy in the woods. And if you walk around the woods of Arkansas, someone on ATV is going to fly by at some point. Yeah. And one with probably 12 wheels just went by. 12 wheels. Yeah. If there's nobody with a banjo on the back, you're doing well. And that thing didn't come with this. He welded something to it. Probably. So this became very odd. Now at first, the ATV man passed by the group at a high rate of speed, flew by on the trail, didn't even look at them. Didn't nod, didn't blink, didn't say hi, nothing. Then they see him again. A little while later, he comes up and he stops. When he talks to them, they have a like a cordial conversation, hey, where you guys been? Oh, yeah, I went up here. It's really pretty. They got this over there. That's cool. You know, where the fishing is and all that kind of shit. And then he gave them directions to the long pool recreation area. Oh, yeah. So he's like the woods guide here. He's given directions. Seems like a lucky back guy passed us on that ATV. Yeah. So then he took off. Then a few minutes later, he flies by the group again, according to one of them, quote, as fast as you could go on that trail. And they said he looked agitated, just fly in, the pissed off, look on his face. He was going somewhere that something was about to happen. So no helmet. Then he comes back a fourth time. God damn. What do you think people in the woods in Arkansas in the 90s are wearing helmets? You don't think they're concerned with safety James? Come on. I didn't know one because we were teenagers. I didn't know one kid who wrote a who had a helmet on riding dirt bikes or anything else. That means really? Fuck no. If you put a helmet on in the 90s, what do you think would be rain down upon you? What word do you think would come out over and over and over again? You don't think it's no. Maybe that's my group of friends were fucking idiots, but that's. I won't put a pass in that. I never saw no one even owned a helmet. None of these people. I mean, I, I, I didn't ride anything in the city limits. So I mean, nobody would, there wasn't anybody there to rain upon. No, uh, uh, uh, gay slurs, but I can no, no. And I see the friends just to get the yellow from the time from the trees. You, they're not even other there. Second, you clip the helmet under the chin. People start yelling it from the tree top. Fuck that. They just start yelling passing cars. Anybody, they just know. Echoing off the off. Crazy. Which wild to be a kid back that really was. He's flying around with no helmet. Now the fourth time he pulls up was about two minutes after the last time when he flew by looking agitated. Okay. So the group is continuing their hike, hike on the trail. And out of nowhere, they're just walking. They see him and then he's not near them anymore. The ATV guy, then out of nowhere, um, Porter here, dad Porter, Henry, uh, he hears multiple gunshots. Oh my. And he sees David, Lassal, yeah, slumped to the ground, fall down, fall down his cousin, David just fall down. Yeah. And he said that Porter, Henry said he felt like what was like a bee sting on his shoulder. And then he was stung by a bee and it was something bit. It was a gunshot. Uh, so he grabbed Molly as 18 year old daughter by the arm and pulled her down to the ground. Nice move. Two of them got shot because he's a good dad, um, pulls her down to the ground. So Henry looks in the direction that he thinks the shots are coming from and sees the guy on the ATV. That's the son of a bitch. Yeah. He's in a slight crouch. He's off the ATV. He's in a slight crouch with both hands on a semi automatic pistol. Oh boy. So then Henry Porter feels something hit him in the face. Oh, and he's knocked back into the dirt. He said then a blood began gushing out of his face. Oh, he's, and he realized he'd been shot again. So he's like, oh, fuck, I've been shot twice. Headshot. Headshot. Now, he looks back. ATV man is attempting to reload his pistol. Uh huh. Now you got two choices now. You can either run the fuck away or you can go at him. One of the two. Yeah, but either way he's going to chase you probably and either way, no matter what you do, you're shot and the right and the motion and the movement is going to cause pumping and blood's coming out. It's absolutely. I would think the adrenaline at this point is causing it to come out. Gonna keep you to go. And there's that. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's pumping. Your heart is pumping at this point. You can just survival mode also. You can just protect your daughter. I just got shot. All the different things are going crazy. So to keep your head straight is impressive. Yeah. So this guy, Henry says, this is the, these are the times that define everything. And he says, fuck it and runs at ATV man. Are we going into the night? That's it. So he runs at ATV man. He runs at him, tries to tackle him. Um, cause the guy on the ATV runs away from him, trying to reload the pistol. Yeah. He's trying to get tackled while he's trying to reload. So he runs and starts running behind trees trying to reload. They're playing like, yeah, they're doing like trying, like little kids around a tree. And he's like, I'm trying to stick bullets in the fucking gun. Is this happens? Howard. Howard. Absolutely. Yeah. You couldn't be more. You see this man shot twice and you're scared of him. Right. So he's running away and hides behind a tree. So Henry Porter goes over to the ATV and pulls the keys out of it. Nice move. And he says, quote, now try to get out of here. Ah, now you can't leave. Now you can't leave. Exactly. That's the hillbilly. Now you can't leave. Exactly. I had, I have under here. Now you can't leave Arkansas style. That's what I have written down. Cause that's exactly what this is. Yeah. Now try and get out of here. Now you want this guy to leave. That's the problem. Now you, now you're stuck with it. Well, sounds as though he does not want him to leave. He wants to tear him apart. But when he gets to the pistol reloaded, which he does, that's, uh oh. Now you're stuck with a guy with no way to leave. Now you use can't leave. To go through you. Yeah. So he reloads the pistol. ATV man steps out from behind the tree and points the gun at Porter again. So Henry Porter goes, oh, fuck. And he runs for a distance and then stops to see what the guy was doing. He runs and there's no shot. So he's like, he looks back like what's going on. And he looks down and sees Molly. His daughter is still lying down beside his cousin. David's dead on the ground. Yeah. Is that for a shot? Got it. So then ATV man starts firing the shots again. Yeah. When Henry stopped, he starts firing shots hits him in the forearm now. God damn shoulder forearm head. So he got hit and he just keeps running. Um, he runs and ends up at a farm. Just runs through the woods till he hits a farm and then he's asking for help. I mean, you don't need to ask for it if you show up with three gunshot wounds. Now Molly, this poor young lady had been trying to assist her uncle. She'd been trying to help him. But he's dead. He's beyond help. So she just ran from the scene, scurried away and hit under a rock on a small cliff. This poor, this poor. He didn't shoot it. No, he never shot right because she wasn't the threat. He was, she was fire and he was firing at Henry. Once Henry got out of distance, I think he just took off. Wow. He has no keys to the ATV, but later on we'll find out it's this ATV belongs to a friend of his and you can use a knife or a screwdriver to start it too. Yeah. So you can use a knife blade to start it. The ignition on any of those ATVs. Yeah. This is a turn it carries. Yeah. So anyway, uh, Henry Porter comes back to the area with the cops now, back to the scene of the shooting. Yeah. And he's looking for Molly. He's looking for his daughter. He doesn't know if this guy kidnapped her and dragged her into the woods like a Sasquatch or a shot or a left or there. Yeah. Yeah. She a woods bride now. We don't know. Right. So they end up calling her and she finally crawls out from under a rock. Yeah. And so he finds his daughter safe and sound. She's the only one who's not shot at all. And yeah, he, he shot not physically injured, but certainly she's all fucked up. Yeah. So she, he was shot in the shoulder forearm and face and reporter. She's Jesus. Um, and let's, let's sell it was shot too. And Molly said, yeah, this guy started shooting at us and my dad went after him and then he took off. And so let's sell, David, let's sell, died of a single gunshot wound to the head. And Molly states later, by the way, when she was hiding behind the rock, she heard somebody start the ATV and drive off. Wow. So she heard it and she was scared that he was looking for her. But he just took off because he probably knew, oh, shit, someone's coming back with cops. Yeah. Now, this goes on in the woods. We don't know who ATV man is. Right. Then about an hour after all this happens is possibly the dumbest thing that any criminals ever done in the history of the world, introducing Jimmy Don Wooten. Yeah. Jimmy J I M M Y Don Wooten. And he goes by Jimmy Don. Now Jimmy Don. You go to Arkansas, you get two names. He gets it's it. The sheriff Bobby Joe, sheriff is Jimmy Don. Yeah. Now he's born June 10th, 1963, this idiot. So he's in his 30s. This isn't like a 20 year old or anything like that. Fairly young. He shows up to the cops. This is amazing. And he says, I'd like to report something. Yeah. And they go, what's that? And he go, there's this guy, right? He said, I was fishing out near Longpool. And there's this fella came up upon me, shot at me with a 22 caliber pistol and stole my six wheeled ATV. Oh. And they said, really? That's interesting. He shot at you and stole your ATV because they know they're looking and he's they go, well, what's the, what did the man look like? This is important information. It's important evidence. Would the man look like and his answer exactly like me? That's a man. And he said, he said he's a day was crazy. He said, it was like looking in a mirror. And he just gave shot at me and stole my ATV. This literally his story is my doppelgag. My evil twin is running around the woods, stealing from me and killing people. Yeah. I don't even know what the fuck he said. How did he, did he think that on his way there? Do you think they went, what do you do look like and he goes, shit. That's a great question. What the fuck are you doing? I bet they stumped him right then and when he was like, well, I've been spotted. So I got to say something. Well, he looked exactly like, I mean, he said he separated at birth. He said it was eerie. He said it was, I got my doppelganger just to run and around. So you got to stop him because he's giving me a bad name out there. People don't think it's me. He said that the gun that he shot at him with was the 22 that he had in the ATV. Because he shot at me with my own gun. My own gun. And my doppelganger. And he looked, I'm pretty sure he's home fucking my wife right now. I'm just saying, you should probably go check on it. There's no way he knows the word doppelganger. No, there is again. I'm sure he's in my evil twin. You know what I mean? He just, my clip clopper or something. Now it gets better. Yeah. Somehow it gets better. They look outside and they go, well, you got it, you got an ATV outside that you wrote up on and there's a 22 caliber pistol on there. Yeah. And he goes, oh, well, yeah, I found it again later. I got it back. I mean, he said he said I found it abandoned on the side of the road near his truck. So he got the guy dropped it off right by my truck. More me. Ain't that convenient. So you're telling me a man stole your ATV looks just like you. Yeah, identical, identical. Stole your truck or stole your bike, stole your gun, shot at you with your own gun and returned. And then he'll know the return. And then on the back to your truck. He said, but probably that guy's truck and it looks just like you, identical. It's eerie. Creepy. And they said, well, when you found the ATV, what was, what, you know, he said, well, the keys were there. They had blood on it. There was blood on the keys and the pistol was on the floor, but without its magazine in it. Oh, yeah. And I don't know, man. So they, that's off. That's the murder weapon because he has on him. This is a story. This is his story. He said, I'm going to get ahead of this. Yeah. This is like people who like, you know, they go out do a bunch of shit and then report their car stolen like two hours afterwards. Like, that doesn't quite all the same way. That's a, but at least they don't say a guy who looked just like me stole it. That's crazy. I don't think him any let's just like me. What a fucking idiot. Yeah. So it was determined that his gun spired the 22 caliber cartridge found at the location of the shooting as well. In addition, swimming trunks found at his home matched the exact description that Henry and Molly gave to the cops of. He shot people in swim trunks. Swim trunks. What the fuck? He's at a recreational area with swim trunks and an ATV and he says, I'm going to kill it. He doesn't even know these people. Why would you? What the fuck? By the way, Jimmy Don Wooten. Yeah. They pick him out of a lineup and he goes, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's not me. Hold, Charlie. You look down. You know what I mean? Tell him the truth. That's the craziest fucking thing I've ever heard of my life. Oh, man. So they pick him out of a lineup and everything like this isn't just, you know, he's, he's, he's fucked for all intents and purposes. It doesn't look good. I'll say that much right fucking now. So, uh, wow, they're going to talk to him, obviously. They, they, he's picked out of a lineup, which he says, you know, I mean, you know, Jimmy, um, we find out a little, he has no criminal record. This guy, what did he do? This isn't like, you know, oh, this is a long, you know, this is just the end of the culmination of a criminal career. He's just, he's never been in trouble. Never done anything. We find out that he's got some problems and there's going to be no surprise here. He's the youngest of six children. Uh, dirt, dirt, Arkansas dirt for real dirt. Boy, like their floor is made of dirt. Poor that's dirt for his father was a severe alcoholic who refused to work or provide for the family. Um, horrible abuse by the father to the whole family beats the shit out of every one of the six kids and the mom in front of the kids. Yeah, everything. He beats everybody, including young, uh, old Jimmy Don, who is, you know, the youngest. And they said that he, yeah, he was actually a special target of his dad. His dad took great joy in beating the shit out of him because he was small and weak and also mentally slow. He, he's not all the shocking that a guy who's not all there, go, I got the perfect crime. Uh, you do things. And you say some guy, look, just like we did it. That's, that's how that'll get it. I can't believe nobody never thought of this. Right. That's the process of a dangerous number in mind hunter when they talk to the one guy who complete war on. He's like, yeah, I'm for me. Yeah. He said, yeah. So I sent him letters to keep him off the track and they were like, you just pushed them toward you more. That's what he did. He's an idiot. Well, they didn't, they didn't find her. So I wanted them to find her. Yeah, but you told him where the body is. Yeah. That's the genius part. Yeah. See, that's the smart part. That way they know like a donut. Exactly. That's this guy that's who we're dealing with. This is the level of intelligence. And, and I've been framed by my double dutcher. Oh, god damn evil twin every time. I thought the soap operas was lying all these years, but no, there's evil twins out there. Now they said he has a lifelong history of learning and cognitive problems. He was in special education for the lowest functioning students that they had available in Arkansas, which is something. Oh, yeah. He was in like, I think they call that the inbreeder classes, what that is. It's certainly the mostly just in bread, children. It's not a, it's a single helix. Yeah. That's what they call it. Yeah. Now, in spite of all of this, he was considered a good worker at jobs that he had just unskilled manual labor job. Right. He does, he's a good worker who doesn't do anything or steal or that crazy. Does his job and shuts up and goes home. He had, but his, his childhood was a fucking mess. They said evidence of his life history that were noted here and court records quote, among other things, Wooten was able to hold several jobs, including maintenance work and small vehicle repairs. Right. He had Billy Bob Thornton and Slingblade. So did Slingblade. He literally did this exact thing and they're like, I mean, he's fine, right? He hacked a man's head and half with a lot of blame. I call it a Slingblade, including maintenance work and small vehicle graduated high school, bottom of his class, but he graduated. That's, I didn't graduate high school. So good for you. Attended college for two years. What? I couldn't have been. I don't think it was like a major university. Yeah. He didn't like graduate. He just went and was able to maintain his driver's license. He actually operated an aircraft and actually at one point owned a beach craft skipper airplane. You can own anything James. I mean, that does not mean he flew it. But if he did, he did impressive. And he's still alive, which means he knew how to fly it, you know what I mean? I knew how to land it. Currently he was an employee of Arkansas Tech University in Russellville. I got he was doing maintenance work there. He pleads not guilty to the charges. Wow. Yeah. Now, so the Henry Porter lives through all this with his three gunshot wounds and the newspapers are calling him a hero for saving his daughter and everything else. He says, I think she had as much to do with saving her life as I did. Which yeah, she went and hit under a rock and everything like that. She was just lucky. He didn't start shooting her. But he made himself the target and the threat for this man. So it took the attention off his that's here. Oh shit. He said that I don't want anything to get in the media that might in any way jeopardize the case against this guy. And he said another thing. He said there weren't a cross word between everybody until this fellow shot at us for no reason. They didn't say fuck you slow down with your 18. There was never a word exchange other than the cordial talking and him giving them direction. And none of this makes sense. He didn't rob them. Right. The thing you didn't see like didn't have anything to take. No benefit for this. It was just to kill people. It's crazy. So David LaSalle's brother said they had a cordial conversation with this fellow and then left him. The next thing they know my brother shot in the back of the head. It was completely unexpected. Yeah. So like I said, they pick him from a lineup, obviously. And they try to get the lineup suppressed. Oh. Yeah. They say that basically Henry Porter, you know, the guy who survived, described initially the assailant as being in his late 20s, five feet, seven inches tall, about 140 pounds with sandy blonde hair. He didn't say that the assailant had either a mustache or a beard. Oh. But then when they got him in front, he picked that guy out. Molly Porter described the assailant as being in his late 20s, light brown hair. His hair is red, by the way, he's a ginger hard guard. This is Arkansas, yeah. Yeah. Five foot six, about 140, 150 pounds. She also didn't mention a beard or mustache. No. Now, he contends. They want to get the lineup thrown out because Jimidon contends. The lineup was conducted. That was conducted was overly suggestive because based on the description provided by the two witnesses, it was inevitable. He would be picked. You know, because it was me. Is it looked just like me? He says he was the shortest person in the lineup by three or four inches and asserts that the closest to his height had gray hair and a mustache and that two other persons in the lineup had facial hair and that two persons appeared to be in their late teens or early 20s. So yeah, you do have to have a generally consistent lineup. Okay. The trial court, though, concludes that they did not see much disparity at all between the individuals placed in the lineup. And there was nothing that the court appeared to be suggestive happening. So they said, you lineup stands, which is pretty much everything that they picked him out as the guy shooting at. Yeah, but and also he had the gun and his story is ridiculous. Just go in front of the jury with that story. Yeah, but the other part is like, don't you want a lineup with like, I don't know, like a guess who? Everybody's different. I don't want everybody to look the same or similar. He's supposed to look similar in a lineup though. Are they really? Yeah, they're supposed to look similar. So you pick out the exact person that did it. Yeah. If you pick out, because otherwise, if let's say he's a, I don't know, he was tall and sort of, you know, vaguely ethnic of some kind and then you stick me in a lineup with you and like Sarah and like a bunch of other people. I guess the idea is, I guess the idea is here's a bunch of people. One of them is the one we suspect. Perhaps if you pick the one we suspect, then it's, yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah, yeah, you got to pick them out. If they all don't like you, you just suspect a guy and then everybody else is 60 years old and, yeah, yeah. Well, it's not all any of them. That's for sure. And the person doing the lineup is going to do process of elimination of that must be the guy. Right. It's not him. It's not him. So the prosecution's opening said, common sense will tell you what's different about this. We've got the defendant with his blue bathing suit with the red band around the top and his stained, uh, or his stained eye teeth. Jesus. And we've got a cold blooded bird murderer and that ladies and gentlemen is this defendant right here. So the defense their entire theory is it was another guy. They stick with his story. A lawyer does not come up with a better strategy than just like him. Yeah. I mean, for what? For what happened and and all the facts, the best story is Duffelbagger. You're right. That's the only thing. Yeah. You know what? Duffelbagger. We're doing it. So the prosecution in closing said, Ted Porter, that's Henry's nickname. Yeah. Is a hero and this defendant is a coward. He's a coward and he's a murderer. Every one of you was asked talking to the jury. If you would hold the state accountable for a motive and you assured me you wouldn't try to make us explain what was going through his head because I don't want to be there in his stupid head. I assume he's right. But there's some obvious things about this and I'm sure you've seen three people hike in one shot dead, the other shot three times and one and the other one in and around this shooting definitely in danger, but no physical injuries. And that one person's a pretty little 18 year old girl. Yeah. Pretty little thing. So the only one person who doesn't have a scratch on her when he is from me to you is Molly. You see where I'm going. You know that's not our burden. Although you know that's what's happening. You see what they're saying? What are they saying? They're saying he's trying to kill those two so he can kill. He can get Molly and the way for the girls. Yes. Oh, he said he's from me to you from her doesn't shoot her. But tries to shoot the two men. Meanwhile, she's a pretty 18 year old girl. So they're saying he got his dick hard on this ATV and said, I'm going to get me that. That's which there that's what he's saying is, you know, I'm not saying that's motive but you can follow my logic, right? Yeah. She's the only one that's unscathed and it didn't go to his plan. That's for sure. This is obviously not what he expected to happen. So the verdict comes in in very short amount of time. He is guilty of capital murder, criminal attempt to commit capital murder and aggravated assault. In Arkansas, they pull your heart out through your penis there. I believe that's that's actually what the judge says. So the sentencing, the mitigation, they say that his entire penalty phase presentation, his lawyer's presentation filled fewer than 10 pages of trial transcript, including his opening and closings from the he didn't even try y'all. He presented two witnesses and officer from the jail where Jimmy Don was housed prior to enduring the trial and one of his former co-workers doesn't bring in his family, doesn't bring in brother sisters, mother, none of that shit. I expected an OJ defense for this open shot. Okay. He said he had no criminal work, no criminal record. He's a good worker, a good prisoner and could work in prison if sentenced to life in prison. So he'll make his way. The co-worker also testified. He was a good worker. In closing, his lawyer told the jury they would have to find the aggravating circumstance asserted by the state, namely that the the person in the commission of the capital murder knowingly created a great risk of death to a person other than the victim. He said that he told the jury also he did not intend to appeal to emotion and in fact presented no evidence of any personal history or testimony from the family. Okay. The jury finds the knowingly created a great risk of death aggravator. They found several mitigators too. No criminal record, exemplary work ethic, more than one job skill that he could use in prison, that he adapted to prison and was a good prisoner and that he didn't kill the girl. Didn't kill Molly. That is good. But they say you sir may fuck off death by lethal injection. Yes, it's Arkansas, man. You don't kill people there. Plus they have the highest murder rate and second or third highest murder rate. Yeah, but my point is my point is just because the highest happens. I don't mean Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas. They're the three that kill the most people too. Right. They're in the top five. And when you do it, don't expect to not be put to death. Yeah, but the problem is it's also the Arkansas court system. So that's why they drive on for 40 years. They can actually kill all these people because it's Arkansas. So that plus 30 years imprisonment on the attempt to commit murder in six years on an aggravated assault charge. Oh, so his first, his first appeal is denied. A new lawyer is hired for some second appeals and third appeals. One of the appeals, he says they, they kept, this is my favorite. They struck the one black juror. Oh, and the appeals court is like you have red hair. How would that have helped you? Yeah, well, they understand. Over over time, they figured out that black jurors are less likely to vote for death penalty. Right. That's what they're, what their thing is here. But they say it's not, it wasn't struck for that reason. It wasn't. So that's preserved there. 1999 appeal. Okay. His wife hired a new lawyer after the first appeal. This guy, Clawson, James O. Clawson, he does. Now here's some highlights of Clawson's legal career. I don't know if it's real quick. 1993, disbarred in Oklahoma for failure to pay dues, and also to do the continued learning. Yeah. 94 Oklahoma conviction and sentencing, sentenced to two years in Oklahoma on two separate grounds of uttering a forged instrument. 1998, reprimanded by the Arkansas Supreme Court for mishandling a bankruptcy case, also reprimanded that year by the Supreme Court for deceptive advertising. 1999 referred to the Arkansas Committee of Professional Conduct for failing the file on appeal on behalf of his client. 2001 sentence to 18 months in prison, meant by the US District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas after being found guilty of six counts of bankruptcy fraud. And then finally disbarred in 2001. Nice. Yeah. Not good. Clawson. Yeah. Clawson. So it's fucking great. That's his lawyer. This guy says we got a new, and this is literally what he said in court. He's quote, to retarded. Oh, I'm too retarded. I can't do this. No, no, no, no, he can't be executed just to retarded. Oh, okay. Not that he is just mentally retarded. He's too retarded. Like, good news, James. And I, the reverse, we'll ever, we've never flown a plane. Yeah. We're in good shape. We're in good shape. That doesn't work. No. Finally, in 2020, his death sentence is overturned. What? And his new sentence is you, sir, may fuck off life without parole. Commit. It's, it's because of the attorney thing because it's that attorney's nightmare. A ton of stuff up. So on every guy like that, right now here, I'll give you a picture of him here. Yeah. There he is. That guy. That little squirrelly fuck here. That little guy looks like your neighbor. Yep. He's five weeks. Yeah. 135 pounds. Little guy. I still there. Dangerous. Where is he in the facility address? That doesn't matter. He's a PO box. 600 greatie Arkansas. There's a thing. Yeah. So he's in there and we'll be in there forever. Forever. Forever out parole. Yeah. He did achieve in a program, principles of applied to living program in 2012. So there you go. There's Jimmy Donbout and there's Barbara. Wow. There's a two, three named Arkansas murderers and one hour for you guys. I got a feeling that guy was that that that lawyer was right. I think his motive and idea of why. Yeah. So 100% accurate. That's the only thing that makes sense. Nothing else is possible. Nothing else makes sense. Yeah. So there you go. Definitely head over to shut up and give me murder dot com. Get your tickets for live shows. Nashville, you're up first February 20. Can't wait. Get those right now. It's like to do more live shows. So that is great. Do that. Give us five stars and whatever. Ap you're listening to follow us on social media at small time murder Instagram small time pod on Facebook patreon.com slash crime in sports. All your bonus material. Anybody five dollars a month or above hundreds of back bonus episodes immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week one crime in sports one small time murder. You get it all this week. Small time murder Dean Coral and Wayne Henley and was that in a couple of situations? Was he forced? It's great. So crazy unearthing people from the ground. It's bonkers stuff. We'll talk about that and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show and you get everything we do at free patreon.com slash crime in sports. Want to follow us shut up and give me murder.com is the place to find everything that you can about us. Thank you so much for joining us. Until next week everybody. It's been our pleasure.