USA wins Men’s Hockey Gold, Celtics beat Lakers, Pato O’Ward joins, Over/Under for 2026/27 season

Live from New York, it's a show that is mostly off of vacation. Two people are definitely off of vacation. I'm on vacation. You are? Where are you? Where are you? We're here. Are you upstairs? This is our vacation. We're here. We're in studio. We are. I'm straight. I didn't even go on vacation. I was in the LA offices working, meeting with executives, you know, hobnobbing for our show. I'm stranded. You guys are standing rested. I'm haggard. We had Pato Award coming up on the show. We did a little pre-tape with Pato Award. You know what the key is? Pit stops. You take a break, and then you come back full speed. That's right. That's what me and Brood did. We took a break, come back full speed. You worked, and then you're like, now you're still, oh, I need new tires still. Literally said, I got to go buy new tires. To Blizzard. They canceled all the flights. We stayed in a hotel last night. And walk in. You know what I had for dinner? Bottled water. We drove through two feet of snow together this morning. Today, USA wins gold. What does this mean for USA hockey? Jack Hughes, and am I now a New Jersey Devils fan? Maybe. Meanwhile, IndyCar opens in St. Petersburg this Sunday. Paddle Award joins us in studio. We pre-taped that one, and it's excellent, so stay tuned. And finally, 10.5 wins projected for Sam Darnold, Drake May, Patrick Mahomes, and Lamar Jackson. Who goes over? Who goes under? And the surprising take. The surprising take that is in store for one of our— What? Miles is going to take the pats under. It's a surprising take. It sounds like— Miles is going to take the pats under. Don't give it away. I already said we pre-taped the bottle award. I don't want to give too much away. But there is a surprising take about the over-unders. If they go under that, they're probably not making the postseason. 10-7 doesn't make it? Depends how you feel about the Bills. Well, I feel good about the Bills. Alongside Chris Broussard, I'm Kevin Wilds. Nick Wright is in somewhere. We're starting in Los Angeles. Sorry. The Lakers unveiled a Pat Riley statue, and J.J. Redick's squad honored him with standstill play. Hello. Jalen and Pritchard both hit for 30. The Lakers only put up 89, Brew. It was the fewest points for a home game in LeBron's Lakers tenure. Here's Luka on the game. Yeah, I think they were very physical. But, you know, they were playing great defense. So we need to do better on offense. We scored 89 points. You know, that's not like us. So we're going to be better. Okay, Brew, how much faith do you have in the L.A. Lakers? None. None. Zero. Like as far as winning the championship or getting to the finals, none. All right. They are like obviously OKC, Denver, Minnesota and San Antonio are all on a different level than the Lakers. Yeah. As of now, the Lakers in the first round would play Houston. They could beat Houston, which is having its own problems. But there's a second round ceiling on these Lakers for a few reasons. Because number one, this is not a revelation. This is not going to surprise anybody. They can't defend. Okay? They just can't. And so young, energetic teams like OKC, like San Antonio, even like Boston yesterday that play hard, that play with a lot of energy and fire and athleticism, give them trouble. The Lakers are ranked 24th in the league in defensive rating. No team, Nick, in modern basketball history, like the last 50 years or so, has won a championship with a defensive rating that low. The only one to come close, because most are in the top 10 defensively when they win the championship. The only one to come close was the 2001 Lakers, who were 21st in the league. But they had Shaq and Kobe and some other guys that could defend when they needed to and really turn it up. So this team defensively is not good. Yesterday, you saw Jalen Brown had his way. Peyton Pritchard, you just see the highlights right here. He looked like Caitlin Clark yesterday. That might have gone over some people's hands, but he looked like Caitlin Clark yesterday. He was killing them. They couldn't handle him. And then the second thing, Nick, is offensively, they are my turn, your turn. Because their three best offensive players, Luka, LeBron, and Austin Reeves are at their best with the ball in their hands. And Luka is not good when the ball is not in his hands. Reeves is okay. LeBron has gotten better, but he's at his best with the ball in his hands. And so all three of those guys are unselfish. So they're not necessarily shooting it all the time. They may create a nice pass and bucket for a teammate, But the other star is typically standing there watching when Luka has it or when LeBron has it or when it's Austin's turn. And so it's too much my turn, your turn offensively. And good defensive teams can guard that. And you saw that yesterday. So, yeah, their second round ceiling, that would be a good finish for them. Well, and so, Brew, here's the thing. I think there's kind of a good, bad, and ugly component for the Lakers right now. And I'll show it to you. The good is they are still, and they have kind of been this LeBron's entire tenure there, as good as any team in the league if the game is going according to script. They are the best team in the league when leading after three quarters. And this is something they have been three times in LeBron's tenure since he's gotten there, where they've just been the best at this. And so when the game is going the way they want it to, they haven't lost. They're 25-0, and the other teams on this list who have more instances of it are some of the best teams in basketball. So that's the good. That is if it's close, late, Luka or LeBron can out-execute the opposition. But the bad is over the course of the entire season, when they play Western Conference contenders or Western Conference playoff teams, they don't do well. They are 9-13 against teams 1-10 in the West, and they get beat pretty soundly. And KW, when they play the best teams in the league, either conference top four, they get bludgeoned. Yikes. And that is just evidence. They're just not that class of team, and this is where my frustration grows immensely with the roster construction because the idea that, well, when LeBron leaves, they're going to be able to, in one offseason, totally revamp the roster, I don't know if that's realistic, which then makes you wonder, wait, like, how many years of Luka Doncic's playoff prime is going to be squandered? And I'm not saying Luka's a perfect player, Brew. I understand he has his limitations, but it is, this team to me is, as you put it, drawing dead against any legitimate championship contender in a playoff series, which means they're drawing dead maybe in round one, but certainly after round one. That's what the season has shown us. Can I show you, get your reaction to this play, Brew? So first, Hobbs, can you show the, just to expound on how bad defensively the Lakers are? And you mentioned 24th defensive rating. Everything is bad. you know out rebounded last night too and created a little foul trouble um or jackson hayes left uh but everything is bad but so it's like ah maybe it's roster construction maybe it's just not how they're built it's also an element of what you like to say brew like want to yeah this is the clip that's kind of going around luca makes a three he makes this so it's not there's not a ton to complain about this makes it 40 to 39 and then it's just a breakaway for the celtics So it's just frustrating to watch Luka. They had three texts yesterday, and I know Kato put his hand through the basket, and J.J. Redick was furious about it. But there seems to be a lack of want to on defense. Is that fair, bro? Yeah. I mean, look, I think good defense, it does begin with want to, as you said, with tenacity, with energy, with just the desire to do it. But there's also technique. You need a certain level of athleticism and strength. And look, their problem defensively, and that's just a bad look for Luka, and he's done that throughout his career, has complained to the officials. But their problem defensively is their three best offensive players aren't good defenders now. And LeBron, just because of age, Reeves is not a good defender. Luka is not a good defender. They can get better just by trying harder, by communicating and talking more. But even still, they're not going to be great. And it's not a well-constructed roster because they just got Luka last year, and he's a difficult player to build around. And they haven't really had the time or the chances to really build around him perfectly. So I agree, Brew, they haven't had the time to do it perfectly. But this seems haphazard. and I just and this is where I would and I want to divorce I know when people hear me talking about the Lakers they they associate it with you know LeBron and his ability to win I want to like look if we all agree this Lakers team can't win a championship if we just expand it to are we going to be having a very similar discussion a year from now when LeBron is not on the team like I When I watch the Lakers, KW, against the best teams in the league, it feels like, man, there are a lot. Like, if LeBron leaves, how many quality starters do they have to add if we're going to say they can win the title, which you should be able to do in theory if you have one of the five best players in the world in his prime? Like, are they three? Do they should? Is a championship-level Lakers team next year, Luka, Austin Reeves, and three starters who are not on the roster. And if that's the case, like, how are they getting those guys? What are they going to do? That would be my concern for the Lakers moving forward or bigger picture. Well, their dream scenario, obviously, if they don't have LeBron next year and they've got cap room, they're obviously going to try to go after Giannis. Now, that would obviously help. But, Nick, I don't know as much. it's the type of players. All right, you look at some, look at Boston right now. That's not a roster that's impressive without Jason Tatum, but it's the type of players that fit together. You can look at OKC. They've got a lot of no-name players, and they just beat Cleveland yesterday without their two top players, Jalen Williams and Shea Jones-Alexander, Detroit. So they need shooters, athletes who can defend, rebounders and defenders. They might not be big names, but guys that are committed to doing those things around Luka Doncic. You're kind of a new team. When Dallas got to the finals, when Dallas got to the finals, it didn't have a lot of big names outside of Luka and Kyrie. I agree. Just real quick, I agree with you on the lack that it doesn't have to be... Giannis would be great, but you don't get Giannis. I don't think you have to go star hunting. I'm just saying the 3 and D types of players the Lakers aren't going to be the only team shopping in that basket in the offseason and it feels like they need a bunch of new guys to have and they had last trade deadline this past offseason this trade deadline to add something to it and they didn't and they seem to really have all their eggs in the basket of when LeBron leaves it'll be easier and I just don't I don't know if the foundations in place would be my concern. Lakers host the Magic tomorrow night. Meanwhile, on the Celtics side, Jalen goes for 32-8-7. Celtics win their third in a row, 37-19 on the year, good for second in the East. Here's LeBron on Jalen's MVP candidacy. You know, this whole MVP thing, I don't understand why his name is not getting talked about some as well. Like, nobody gave him a shot to start the season. And he's having, what, 30? Yeah, you're a sender. Yeah. Just under 30? Yeah. It's a popularity contest sometimes, I tell you. You feel like he could be MVP? Last question. I mean, that's not for me. I'm going to be honest. I don't know the criteria of MVP anymore. I kind of stopped giving a damn about it a long time ago. I got my own personal issues. Brew your reaction. I would love to hear LeBron's issues with the MVP voting, but there is no one criteria. All right? So every voter kind of comes up with their own. To some, it's who's the best player in the league. To others, it's who's the best player on the best team. I have my criteria, and Jalen Brown meets all of them. So LeBron is absolutely right in that Jalen Brown should be in the hunt. He's not my MVP right now. I got two guys ahead of him, Shea Gilgis-Alexander and Cade Cunningham. Okay. All right. But, and Jokic, I just wonder, is he going to, he can miss two more games to be eligible. Now, obviously, he's a triple-double average. He's on pace to become maybe the first player ever, if he does it, to lead the league in rebounding and assist. So he's right there in the hunt. The question is, he's going to make the games. And then when Binyama can miss, I think, three or four more games for him to be eligible. But if the rule didn't exist, what's your top five? Well, if the rule didn't exist, but I would look at games played. And I think the fact that Jalen, among the top six candidates, who are Shea, Jokic, Cade, Jalen Brown, Wimby, and Luka, he has missed the fewest amount of games. So I would put that into consideration. But here's my criteria quickly. Individual dominance and stats. He's averaging 29.7 rebounds, five assists, all career highs. All right, so he meets that criteria. Great individual numbers. win-loss record. They're second in the East, fourth best record in the league without Jason Tatum. So that's something. Supporting cast. All right. His second and third best players are Derek White and Peyton Pritchard. All right. So he is the only one, Nick, of all the top candidates. He's the only one who either doesn't have an all-star teammate or another guy averaging 20 or so points a game. All right. So that is something in his favor. And then my fourth one's historical significance, it doesn't really factor into this situation with him. But I do think he's right there and you know, he's played all but five games and leading, Nick, I thought that they would be in the playoffs. I thought at best they would have a chance to get home court advantage and be in the top four in the East, but I never foresaw them being the second best team in the East. So he definitely has a legitimate chance to win this award. Listen, I didn't think they would have a chance at being in the top four, Brew. You were higher on them than me. I thought, and the only reason I really thought, yeah, they'll make the playoffs is because the paucity or the scarcity of elite teams in the Eastern Conference. Going into the year, all right, their projected win total was 41 and a half. They were 22-1 to win the East, which was the 8th best right in the middle of the Eastern Conference odds. And they were 60-1 to win the title, which again, that was 16th best odds. They are now on pace for 54 wins, so 13 wins over more than their projected total. And they have the 2nd best odds to win the East and the 4th best odds to win the title. And he's been showing up every damn night. Like, my history in doubting the Celtics and underrating Jalen Brown in particular is probably, you know, well documented. But the job is to be fair and to evaluate things as they happen. He's been sensational. And Brew has played at a level I did not think he was able to. Like, it wasn't that I thought, if you would have said going into the year, can Jalen Brown average 29 a game? My answer would have been, well, yeah, if the Celtics are really bad. Like that in order for him to have the types of numbers that he is having, I would have thought it meant the team is just bottoms out. Somebody's got to score. He's the best player. It's been the opposite of that. They've been awesome. He's been awesome with them. I mean, he's been the biggest reason for it. And so, listen, I am not discounting anyone from the games played standpoint at the moment unless they are already ineligible for the award. So if it were, we have a very, very similar top five. But for me, it would be Joker, then Shea, then Jalen Brown, followed by Cade and Wimby Fifth, and I would have Luka outside of the top five as much as I love Luka. Could the games miss plus the issues that we just discussed I think are disqualifying at the moment for him to be top five. And so I am, KW, this was more off the air than on the air, your belief that the Celtics could be a team to be reckoned with this year. I remember you saying it to me a few times off the air, and I kind of knocked it down. I have been stunned at how good Boston is and stunned at how good Jalen is. And so, yes, I absolutely – I think he can win the MVP. I think it will probably take Joker and Shea not reaching the games threshold. But I think he has a strong case against Cade, a strong case against Wimby, a strong case against Luka, and I would have him right now ahead of all three of those guys. All right, so can I talk about the elephant in the room and we're going to do a full topic on this later on. He's playing better without Jason Tatum on the floor, bro. Does this affect how Jason Tatum should view his path to getting back on the court or how the Celtics should view his path? Well, look, if I'm the Celtics, I leave it up to the doctors and Jason, Jason Tatum. So if the doctors, not just the Celtics doctors, but his own doctors, clear him to play, say he's ready, he can go, and Jason wants to play, you got to let him play. Because if you don't, then you could offend your best or if you think Jalen's better now, your second best superstar. And so they got to let him play. And I'm sure he's a human being. So he is sitting there as much as he loves his teammates. It's weird. You don't want them to win the freaking championship without you. Or win the East without you. It's a little strange. And so let me quickly say this, because this kind of, I think, answers LeBron's question. Why isn't he being heard of more? Because ESPN does their straw poll. They do several for MVPs throughout the season. Jalen Brown is sixth in the most recent straw poll by ESPN that came out Friday. I think, Nick, that's because many of the voters have become slaves to analytics. His PER is 15th best in the league. 22.3, which is not that high for a star. It's 15th in the league. So I think a lot of people are looking at his PER and saying he can't be MVP with one that low, especially when some of these other candidates have sky high ones. Yeah, so I think that's a big issue for him. All right, Celtics in Phoenix tomorrow night. We're going to get to hockey right now. USA wins gold for the first time in 46 years. It's the first gold Knicks since Lake Placid. This win courtesy of stunning goalkeeping from Connor Hellebuck and a Jack Hughes overtime goal. Canada's Nathan McKinnon with a quote that's making some waves, a little bit of a clickbait quote. So I pulled a brew card. I'm like, let's listen to the whole thing. So here it is. It's been close for a while, USA Canada. You know they're an amazing skilled group of players. Just I felt like it wasn't going to be. You guys can be the judge of who the better team was tonight. But they won. We lost. So still not great. But a little more context to be fair to McKinnon. Nick, your reaction to USA's gold medal. Gosh. I hate that this was my reaction I really hate any time this is my reaction to anything I thought of Kevin Wilds Wow And I didn't like it. Why? Because of your great line that I used to make fun of you for, but it's true. I love sport. Love sport. It was a great day for sport. I love sport. I love sport. Honestly, I'm not going to get on here and pretend. Not only am I not a hockey expert, I know very little about hockey. I know more about golf and tennis and, at this point, NASCAR and IndyCar than I do hockey. But I can get wrapped up in a big event and become super invested. And it was so, so captivating. So, you know, such a, not obviously a 1980s style underdog, but we were decided underdogs. Also, I then after, in the lead up to the gold medal game and then after the gold medal game, read more about the makeup of the roster and how it was controversial because they didn't just say, hey, who are the 10 best guys necessarily? but some more maybe heavy hitters and trying to build some toughness. I think they said, you know, we have more whiskey drinkers than seltzer drinkers, whatever it was. And to see them pull off this upset, one brother hit the game or score the game winner in the quarters, and then the golden goal in obviously the gold medal game. Hellebuck, as you said, you don't have to be a hockey expert to know our goaltender kicked ass for two and a half hours on Sunday morning was just out of his mind. And so I just, I found myself really invested and I thought it was amazing theater brew and just, just an awesome sporting event. Yeah, it was incredible. And this wilds is like the equivalent of a team beating our USA basketball players in the Olympics, right? It's not impossible. It's happened before. But Canada's won nine gold medals. Like, they are the best nation in the world in hockey. And so for us to beat them, it would be like Serbia or somebody beating us. That's why they're so upset. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And look, it's a one-game thing. It obviously was a close game. And so you'd rather him be more gracious in losing. But I totally get the competitiveness. This is the Olympics and how he feels. But you mentioned Hullabuck, Nick, and I got to give him props. Because, again, I'm not like I'm the hockey expert. But I do know that the guy has been criticized for he's inconsistent in the playoffs with the Winnipeg Jets. He hadn't been able to get it done, you know, and win it all. And here he is in the big, you talk about a big game, and he stops 41 of 42 shots. And some of them were just spectacular fashion. So I felt great for all the team USA and really all of the American sports fans, but Hullabuck in particular. And can I say this quickly? Yeah, go. Because I've been into the Winter Olympics. We obviously talk more football, NFL, basketball, NBA than anything else. But these athletes, not just the hockey players, the skiers, the speed skaters, the figures like they are. And I'm thinking particularly skiers and the speed skaters. They are incredible athletes and they only get highlighted in America every four years. But my wife and I have been watching it. We're into it. they really should get, I wish they got more love, you know, because they are, what they do is phenomenal, and it's just as impressive as the guys we talk about in football and basketball every single day. So I just want to give props to all the Olympians in these winter sports. Brew lives in New Jersey, Nick, and when you are back on the East Coast, we'll go to a New Jersey Devils game to see Jack Hughes, new American hero. I'm down. You got to treat us, though. It's on me. It's like your home. Go. Can I add one thing on Brew's point? Like, it was, and I know this is cliche. A lot of people say something similar. Like, every four years we become experts in all these sports that we otherwise, not talking about hockey, but curling or speeds. I will, there were two moments from these Winter Olympics that I really feel like in the sports part of my brain, all remember forever. The golden goal that we're talking about here and the Alyssa Liu's gold medal routine. And now I feel like I'm an Alyssa Liu expert. I've read all about her father, her family, her story. I didn't know anything going into it. But it was so captivating. And it is a good reminder as the World Cup is coming up, which does happen to be on Fox, so maybe a little free plug or plug for our company. even if that is not your go-to sport, when the event is that important and matters that much for that many people, you get roped in. You can't help but feel the draw of it. And so, yeah, I thought it was spectacular. And I think it's really cool that the U.S., for the first time, this is the first U.S. gold medal in hockey in my life, guys. In my life. Congratulations to all the gold medals, including women's hockey also won. So we swept. Chief Seahawks, Patriots, Ravens over under next on FS1, the Fox Sports Channel on Sirius XM. First things first is back off of vacation, and we are on the road to 2 billion YouTube views. It's going to be a long road, but we are going to get there. Also, check out the podcast. It is slowly moving up the charts. I heard it's like number 3 or 5 in the entire world when it comes to sport. Really? Yeah, check it out. Right now, over-under totals have opened up. These four teams are all at 10-1⁄2, and we're starting with the champs, Seahawks at 10-1⁄2. Here are their non-divisional opponents. Home against the Cowboys, Giants, Chiefs, Chargers, Bears, and Patriots. Super Bowl rematch. On the road against Broncos, Raiders, Eagles, Commanders, and Panthers, and obviously you have to play the NFC West. So, Brew, we'll start with you. over or under for the champs, 10 and a half. Well, that is a heck of a schedule. All right. Supposedly not that hard. Strength of schedule is only like 14. So that doesn't even mention their division, right? I mean, the division there. Two of those teams, the Rams and the Niners, are going to be very good teams. So, look, they do have some cap room this year. I think they bring back, you know, Kenneth Walker III. I'm sure they're going to bring him back. I'm not sure about Rashid, Shahid. Other teams may go after him. Reek Wollin, we'll see. Probably bring him back, I would guess. But they're fairly young, so I think defensively they're still going to be strong. Obviously, they're going to have their offensive weapons. And Darnold is in his prime as a top tier two quarterback. And so I do think that I'm going to take the over despite that tough schedule. I think they're going to be right there in the mix again next year. Yeah, I really, really trust the coach. I really, at this point, certainly in the regular season, nobody can deny it. He's the Super Bowl MVP, or not Super Bowl MVP, but just won the Super Bowl. You've got to trust the quarterback as well. And here's the other thing, KW. Super Bowl winners do well unless their quarterback gets hurt or retires or changes teams. Like, if you look at the teams that would not have hit the over of Super Bowl winners, the Rams, Stafford got hurt. The Eagles, it was a weird one because Foles was a backup who won the Super Bowl. And Peyton Manning retired with the Broncos. So, Super Bowl winners, while only the Chiefs have actually defended the title in the playoffs, All the other ones have made it back to the playoffs unless their quarterback got hurt. So, yeah, I think Seattle is really building something. And the other piece of it, we didn't talk much about them at all. But last year, or the year before last, I guess, in Mike McDonald's first year there, they won 10 games. True. They're one of the only teams since the playoffs have expanded to 14 teams to win 10 and not make it. The other thing I like, you know, a big margin of victory guy, they were plus 191. So I've always got my antennas up for teams so that we're barely squeaking out wins like the Bears. But teams that were blasting teams consistently, and we know that defense is going to be good, very confident in the Seahawks. 14th toughest schedule officially, but that also is because the Chiefs' win total is down. We actually think that they're better than they were. Next up, the silver medalists. We're going to Patriots. Not an easy schedule this year. And after going undefeated on the road last year, this upcoming road schedule looks brutal. Nick, we'll start with you. The Patriots had the sixth toughest schedule. Look at the road. Bears, Lions, Chiefs, Chargers, Seahawks, Jags. Yikes. Ten and a half for the Patriots. Yeah, so here's the thing. Obviously, that schedule's brutal. So they go from what was the softest schedule this millennia. Forget this century. This whole millennia, it's the softest schedule, bro. Broncos were right there. And I'm going to, well, it's interesting you say that because it's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is the Broncos didn't even have the easiest strength of schedule this season. And the Patriots had the easiest strength of schedule this millennia. So, you know, tomato, tomato, I guess. But I'm going to say something else that is, and you know, Brew, how much I have liked Drake May, how much I've believed in Drake May, how, you know, that I said in Halloween that he's just top five quarterback moving forward. But I'm concerned because I've never seen Drake May play well in 2026. I've never seen it. He's in the Super Bowl. I'm not saying it can't happen. I saw him in the Super Bowl. I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm just saying since the calendar turned from 2025 to 2026, I've seen him play five games, and I've never seen him play well. So until I see it, I just don't know what to tell you. I didn't see Patrick Mahomes play well in 2026 either. That's where we're going. I knew it. That's fine. I just haven't seen it. But I have faith. You want to go after a friend of the show? You're going after a friend of the show. You go right ahead. Drake Mays a friend of the show. Really? Drake Mays been on the show? He doesn't have to be on the show to be a friend of the show. A lot of people haven't been on the show. Wit hasn't been on the show. So I don't think you answered over or under. Are you saying under? Under, under, under, under, under. This is a tough one for me, Wild. This is a tough one. Look, I was the last guy on this show to believe in the Patriots. Yeah. Very late. Yeah, very late. Down to Friday. And then I picked them to win the Super Bowl, and obviously they lost. I feel you, Nick. I'm not mad that you're under because that schedule is tough. But I do think Drake may, while I was a little astounded by his struggles in the playoffs, I think he's going to learn from that, and I think he's going to be better next year. Right? His numbers and all that might not be better, but I think he'll be a smarter quarterback and make fewer mistakes. Perfect. Certainly than he did in the playoffs. I think Vrabel is a very good coach. I think they good chance they upgrade their receiving core. I think a guy like even Travion Henderson will realize what do I need to work on to become better. So I just think their culture is what it is. Look, they good chance they might win 10 games, but I'm going to say the over. I'm going to say they go like 11 and six. And so I'll take the over slightly. I see quickly. K.W., before you go, can I just ask you a question, K.W.? Sure. Because here's the flip side of that Seahawks graphic. And this is one of your oldies favorites. The Super Bowl losers win total the following year. Not great. And one of those good years, a supernatural funk happened. There's a lot of, ooh, what happened to that team. So I'm curious how, because you're the biggest believer in hangovers. That's why you just drink Topo Chico with lime, no liquor in it, because you're so scared of hangovers. So where does this land for you, buddy? The Niners ones, though, quickly, those are due to injuries, right? Those were due to injuries. So you take two of those off. But there's still a lot of them. I mean, the Patriots 11-5 was pretty good. Look, if we went 10-7, I wouldn't be shocked, and that would officially be the under. We played 300 days of football. Vrabel is welcoming people into the locker room. He's like, hey, we're at day 305. It's a lot of football. I believe in the Super Bowl hangover. We are a thin team where, like, we were a great run defense. And then everyone's like, well, look at this run defense. No, you're not good. I'm like, yeah, Milton Williams was hurt, and it falls apart. Hey, now Drake May can't throw the ball down the field. Like, yeah, Keyshawn Booty was out. We can't throw the ball down the field. So we are a thin roster because we were depleted by Belichick's bad drafts. We played a lot of football. Bills, a weird home loss. The Seahawks, maybe the Prince. The Chargers, we barely beat. I can't believe we lost game. The Lions, and maybe the Chiefs late. 10-7. Wow. You know what this is, Nick. 10-7. Wilds, you hate being the hunted. That's true. You can't stand being the hunted. That is true. You want to be the hunted. In my real life, too. Chiefs, I hate to say this, Nick. I was surprised they are at 10.5 after a 6-win-11 loss. Yeah, because you're way too down on them, KW. It's 6 wins. That's why you're surprised. It's 6 wins last year. Fifth hardest schedule. So, you thought the Patriots' schedule was bad. Look at the Chiefs' schedule. Fifth hardest. Now, granted, you've got the Cardinals, Colts, Jets, Patriots, 49ers at home. That's actually not too bad. On the road, Bengals, Bills, Dolphins, Falcons, Rams, Seahawks. Well, I think it's Broncos, Chargers, and the resurgent Raiders that you've got to be a little bit worried about. But fifth-hardest official. Yeah, so listen, I understand the Chiefs were awful last year, but I do think that their number being the same as the two teams that played in the Super Bowl last year for next year is instructive, that UKW, I don't know where Brew is, But UKW might be a little too down on the Chiefs because even though you're beloved in Kansas City and believe in Patrick Mahomes sometimes, I think you expect them to have a really rough season next year. I do not. I think that now, do I think they're going to win 13 games? I wouldn't say that. But I know that Andy Reid, since he's been with the Chiefs, here's how many games they have won each year. Patrick Mahomes was not there for all of those years. So every year of Mahomes' career prior to last year, obviously they would have hit this over. But also, three of the years before Mahomes got there, they would have hit this over. He is still an excellent coach. They are going to actually, you know, be able to add real impact guys in the draft because of the disastrous season. And obviously, Brew, if Patrick is out until week six, that changes everything. I do not believe that's going to be the case. I believe Patrick Mahomes is going to be dancing at Travis Kelsey's wedding, is going to be starting for the Chiefs in week one, and so I will go with the over for the now all of a sudden truly hunted or hunters, the Kansas City Chiefs. Yeah, pardon me. Look, I may change my mind going into the regular season. This is all just in pencil. Yeah. But right now, I'm going under. I'm going under. I'm not convinced that Mahomes is going to be dancing, as you like to say at Kelsey's wedding. And maybe he will dance, but that's different than playing football week one. So I'm questioning whether he's there for week one. And then, Nick, how much does that, you know, the injury affect him? Does it take him four or five weeks to get back to form? Remember, this year running was a big part of his game. And so that's probably not going to be the case, certainly initially next year. And so right now I'm going with the under. In pencil. I want to believe. I want to believe. You've got to be able to run the – What's your answer, KW? I'm probably going under. I want to go over. I want to believe in Patrick Mahomes. But, well, I still haven't done the full – as much as we've talked about the Chiefs, we really haven't done the full autopsy on why they were so bad last year. Even if Mahomes didn't get hurt. They were 6-8. And I'll give you two more wins. You say, like, late in the year, beat the Raiders and the Titans. Then you're only at eight. And the wins weren't good. Beat the Giants, beat the Raiders, beat Washington. Like, there wasn't Detroit and the Colts, who were good at the time, and the Ravens, but we didn't know how good the Ravens were. And the Ravens. That's it. So it's like, oh. The Colts win was lucky. And the Colts win, they had to pull out of the fire. No, it was a disastrous season. I just, but here is the reason why I think, KW, you more, I am more confident that you will end up taking the over than Brew when it's actually time to make predictions because you do not believe in Bo Nix and you do not believe in the Chargers. Like you used to believe. I started to believe in the Broncos. I started to believe in that Broncos defense. Did you see them against the Patriots? Holy cow, they came to play. Weirdest and most wonderful plays of the whole week. Travis Kelsey still no news on if he stays or if he goes. We have heard reports that Patrick Mahomes will be dancing at his wedding. Yes, about four times. We've heard a lot as if that affects the football team. It's like, well, he was dancing. Right. Here's Andy Reid. As long as there's communication, I'm good. That means people want to move forward. And I think that's where Travis, I'm not trying to put words in his mouth at all. And I try to give him some space here. He's been doing this a long time. And he can sort all that out as he goes forward. But we're proceeding with that. And there is communication going on. So here's the thing, Nick. And I know you know this, but it feels like a narrative run wild. For Travis Kelsey, he did not have a good year. For a tight end in the National Football League, you would take those numbers from anybody else. He's almost penalized for being Travis Kelsey. So do you think he helps the Chiefs offense? I feel like it's kind of an obvious question. Yeah, I mean, so, but I'm glad. I think it's an obvious question for our show, but I'm glad we're doing the topic for the exact point that you made, KW, which is, there is, allow me to mix metaphors a bit, Brew, and invoke, and again, Kelsey is not Michael Jordan. He might be the Michael Jordan of tight ends, but he's the, just follow me here. There is an element of Michael Jordan as a wizard to Kelsey the last year in particular with the Chiefs where he is so far removed from his own personal height that the general public thinks he is worse when you're stacking up players at his position than he actually is. If that makes sense. He is still pretty clearly one of the five best tight ends in football. Now, will he be at 37? He was at 36. And so here, just a couple quick numbers before I give it to you, Brew. In the last decade, there have been three seasons of a 35-plus-year-old to have 800 or more yards. Travis Kelsey last year, Travis Kelsey the year before, and one Larry Fitzgerald season. Now, when you make it a 37-year-old, that has only happened seven times by seven guys ever, I should say. But the last one was Tony Gonzalez. Same position and a guy who obviously was a Falcon at the time but played with the Chiefs for a long time By the way Jerry Rice We hit our I sorry but we hit our we can only talk about the Chiefs for a certain amount per hour in between the over and the Travis Kelsey story that we hit our maximum Chiefs Wow. Quickly, final word on. Yes, absolutely. He can, he can help the Chiefs offense, especially when they're receiving, of course, kind of, it's not, they don't have a great receiver. Tush-Push not being banned. Wow. Very interesting. I thought it was a certain. Next on First Things First. Live from New York is a show that heard all about our director's snowblower. Rick came in and talked to me for 20 minutes about his snowblower. He's very excited, although he's nervous that it wasn't a great investment, so he's actually rooting for more snow. Chris Broussard and I dug ourselves out of this blizzard and worked hard to get here as a sign of dedication to the program. We did. We fought through the elements. Unlike some. Yeah, live from San Francisco. He's just having a blast out there. You guys were on vacation last week. I was working, first of all. Second of all, I don't control the flights. Third of all, I'm not going to let you for smart cards. Is that work now, playing cards? Yeah, but it is. I heard he got another job. He was working. I looked on social media. Nick Wright, it says, got another job. That ain't being weird if it is. If you're on vacation and you saw Kevin Wilds got another job. Got another job. Hubs were also working at Home Depot 20 hours a week. Jeez. We're probably playing in the tournament tonight. Well, that's why you better not be on. I bet you is. Right now. Second hour. First thing's first. Jason Tatum. Is he coming back? Should he come back? Celtics are doing great without him. Not that he's not excellent, but guys are thriving. Meanwhile, I don't think we'll discuss. Pato Award joins the show. Team McLaren. And does Brew sign up for Team Pato? We'll see. We discuss. But right now we're headed back to the NFL. You know, we spilled a lot of ink about the Tush Push Man and went into last year thinking that this was the swan song for the play that would surely go away. Not true. NFL Competition Committee co-chair Rich McKay telling Mike Reese and Kevin Seifer that no team has proposed the ban, so he doesn't see it being addressed. Now, according to ESPN, Nick, the conversion rate dropped from 77% last year, down from 82% when we were at the peak of Tush Push complaining. Are you surprised that this ban has no steam? Well, I still think it's going to get banned. Oh, you do? With respect to Richmond, yeah, just not right now. So if you remember last year, at the first iteration, they decided not of these meetings, they decided not to vote on it because they didn't have enough votes. So they tabled it until later in the offseason, and then they brought it, and they almost got it passed. or almost got it banned, I should say. I think if the commissioner didn't like it before and now you had on a lot of the most high-profile games of the year, the announcing crew and our officiating experts commiserating about not that it's an unfair advantage for Philadelphia, not my complaint, which is it is aesthetically displeasing, but that you can't officiate it properly. I don't think it has staying power. And the fact that the team that was the biggest proponent of it, obviously Philadelphia, it stopped me. I don't know how tied they are to it because it wasn't that effective for them. So like if you look at their numbers on QB sneaks, the previous three years to last year. And it's a little misleading when it says eighth best because one of the reasons that it doesn't say first best is because they would sometimes do a tush push to set up a tush push. It'd be third and two and they would do it not even necessarily thinking they've got to get it, knowing they could get it on the next play. And so I just think the issues with the false starts brew and then the later issue of was that a fumble, was his progress dead, was it not, is enough that I still think that come next season, it is not going to be a part of our football lives. Yeah, look, I'm not as confident as you. I don't really care one way or the other. I think the reason for me to ban it is not because of the Eagles' dominance in it. I don't like that idea. It's obviously, it looks like it'd be a safety, you know, risk, but it's not. Yeah. The reason, though, to ban it for me is it's tough to officiate. And I do think as the season went on, they got better at officiating it. You even saw the Eagles call for some false starts, you know, as the season went on. I think that's the reason they weren't as dominant in it. So, look, the Eagles, I think with their offensive line not being as good last year, Jalen Hurts just getting a little bit older, and then the officiating of it where sometimes those were false starts, I think that lessened the impact for them. And now teams aren't that concerned about it. It does, to me, Nick, show that the concern was they're too dominant. They're too good at it. We can't stop them from doing it, so we want to ban it. and now that this year they weren't that good at it, nobody seems to care. So we'll see what happens. Can I ask you one question, Nick? And I know you mentioned, like, Troy was very big and just kind of loud about it being hard to officiate. Remember, he was like, I don't know what to do. And I think the rules, and it's like, I don't know. And it felt like that was a real sort of moment in the sand. Recency bias-wise, remember what I – not that you remember my tweets, But I was like, Patriots fourth and one, Vrabel is punting. I am all catalog. Thank you. Vrabel's punting on fourth and one. And I'm like, what are you doing? You got to go for it. But it's in the Super Bowl, does not go for it. AFC Championship game, Sean Payton decides to go for a fourth and one, but doesn't do the tush push. They don't get it, and it turns the game. So it's kind of two somewhat big fourth and ones that teams didn't even go for the tush push. Do you think that serves as a counterbalance for Troy's momentum to get it banned? No, I don't. No, here's the thing. It is, to me, less about whether or not one team is great at it and more about there is my own issue that you guys don't agree with me on, which is totally fine, which is I just think it takes what had been a super exciting moment in a football game. Oh, man, are they going to get this or are they not? And turns it into a rugby scrum that sometimes it's very clear they got it, and sometimes it feels like, well, this is just going to come down to a referee. You know, is he looking left eye or right eye on it? And it left something to be desired. But the other piece of it that I think is kind of interesting, not to avoid your question, KW, and this is one of the reasons I wish, I hope it does come up for vote, is I wonder, man, I wonder how Philly would vote on it. And because Jalen Hurts, to me, the most interesting thing to come out of any Tush Push commentary was the Amazon broadcast with Colin. I'm sorry, with Al Michaels and Herbstreet. When Al Michaels, because he's Al Michaels and he can do what he wants, maybe revealed a little too much. And he was like, I think Jalen Hurts would vote against this thing. And as right now, as where the Eagles are, where Sirianni to me is less entrenched in power than he once was, is Jalen Hurts the most powerful person within that football team? And does he like this play? Because he seems not to. And if the Eagles didn't care about it, then I guess maybe the Bills like it. But the Bills can get it fourth down a bunch of different ways. So I just don't, even if it doesn't get banned, Brew, I think we have, you know, we are on the backside of the crest of the tush push being a huge part of our football lives. I would say this, and I've always agreed with you that if it became too commonplace as far as teams doing it five, six times a game, that would be a problem. But if I were head coach of an NFL team, I would have a special time of practice every day carved out for the tush push. I would become excellent at it. And even if it wasn't my quarterback, Nick, like in Philly, put the tight end in there like some other teams do, or a fullback or something like that, and let him bear the brunt of it. But I would get good at it because, as you said, Wiles, Nick, in that Super Bowl, If New England was really good at the tush push, you can go for some of those fourth and ones. And so I do think as long as it's a rule, teams should get as good as they can at it to use it for their advantage. So, KW, that point Brew just made, to me, is maybe the best evidence as to why the league should just get rid of it. Because Brew is correct. I agree with him that since it's allowed, teams should spend real, and it's limited, practice time that you have in perfecting this dumb rugby play. And so wouldn't the general watchability of football be better if that practice time was spent doing literally anything else? If that was, hey, this is when we're working on our sick laterals on fourth down that have all of a sudden started to be good. Like, just from a what? So I agree with Brew that it is smart, but it is – Yeah, if every team was doing it – Right, if every team was doing it on fourth and one, it would be a little boring. And they're making it 85% of the time. Which you're – you're suggesting that would be smart. That that's what teams should – like, right now they're incentivized to become experts at it. That would suck. Like, just flatly. And now that the Eagles aren't good anymore – Just for the record, it's not splitting me at them. Just push. It is tough. It's tough to do, though. It's not that tough. Only Philly's been great at it. Just push me. It's tougher than it looks. It looks barbaric, but it's tough. If I were there, I'd go push him. Push him. All right, from a play that works too often to one that might not work enough, doesn't look like onside kicks are coming back. Recovery's dropped to under 10%. And when they do work, like Bears-Packers, it can lead to all-time comebacks. But it's a safety issue, and we wanted to kick around an alternative. A few years ago, the Eagles serviced an idea of a 4th and 20 from their own 20 instead of an onside kick. So, Nick, do you buy this that a 4th and 20 should be kicked around as an alternative to an onside kick? So I believe that at some point, you know, God willing, this show keeps going, and there's no reason it wouldn't, we're going to have a topic, do you like this new rule change? I think this rule change is happening in the next five years. Where they do a, I don't know if it's 4th and 20 or 4th and 15 or 4th and 17, whatever it is. And here's the thing that to me, Brew, is so interesting about it. It actually, if you look at the numbers the last five years, onside kick percentage, 4th and 15 conversion, 4th and 20 conversion. It's not hugely different. 4th and 20 is not that much more successful than the new onside kick, but man, oh man, it would feel like it was. It would feel like, oh, we can do it. And so I just think, you know, again, I wouldn't want it ever to become a 1-in-3 chance, like super easy, because then the end of games would feel too arbitrary and building a big lead early would feel less meaningful. I would still want it to be very difficult, but I also would like, I think it's cooler if it is your best players deciding your 1-in-10 shot rather than whether or not your kicker has worked on these little trick shots that now you have to do for onside kick recoveries. Yeah, look, it would be exciting. By your numbers, Nick, maybe it should be 4th and 17 or something like that, the numbers that were in that graphic. It would be exciting. It just feels too gimmicky to me. It does. It feels too gimmicky. And call me old school, call me barbaric, call me a caveman. maybe go back to the old kickoff. I mean, like, go back to the old kickoff. They played that way for, what, 95 years or whatever it was. Go back to that. And then the onside kick could be a surprise. The new kickoff I kind of like. But you can't keep the new kickoff and have an onside kick. You just can't do it. I love this. I would rubber stamp this immediately. Fourth and 20 or fourth and 17, whatever. I think it would just be very interesting. The problem is, Nick, I don't know how you test it. Do you do it in preseason? Like, you know, baseball did these rules, and they did a little bit in AAA. They did a little bit in spring training last year. So they get a chance to work out the kinks. You want to try it in preseason, but then guys aren't really trying stuff. Doesn't it feel like a gimmick, though? I know, but I want to try it, but I just don't want to be committed to it. But this is, Brew, I guess my argument against it being a gimmick is the only reason the current onside kick is not considered a total absurdity is because we are used to it. It is ridiculous. Like if football was being invented and they were like, hey, there's a way to steal an extra possession. It's like, oh, what do you do? It's like, well, if the guy kicks the ball, it's got to go at least 10 yards and then you can grab it and be like, that makes no sense. You bounce it off another guy. So, like, KW, I'd be fine. I agree with you. I just think it's a cooler, more fun, more exciting, but keeps the fairness of a 10-point lead with two minutes left should be almost bulletproof. Not totally bulletproof, but almost bulletproof. But now it feels like your best guys have a chance to, you know, steal a win. I'll tell you what. Caleb Williams would be like, let's do it. Let's do this every play. I'll be happy. Good to go. He would beat like 75% of these things. Head out to L.A. where the Celtics dismantled the Lakers and might, might be getting Tatum back. Missoula was asked about Tatum being at practice. Here was his response. Missoula was a maniac. He was at practice. Did he participate in any of it? I think you guys asked him if he had practice with the team man he said no okay I did not realize that that clip was going around you could not hear the national anthem I thought it was Missoula just kind of stonewalling the reporter he was he was not didn't want to talk over the national anthem. Oh, is that what it was? That's my take on it, because then he starts after the national anthem. I couldn't hear it initially. I agree with you now, Wilds. I thought he was stonewalling the way. I agree with you. He was trying to be respectful to the anthem. Yes, I didn't realize that, and we built this whole question around this. I think we have this wrong. That being said, what do you think Tatum's plan should be? Well, look, I said it earlier. I feel strongly about this. The decision has to be left up to the doctors, the Celtics doctors, and then Jason Tatum if he has his own doctors, right? And him. If the doctors are like, he's fine, all right? Medicines improve, whatever treatments improve, he's ready to play. He's under no extra risk. And Jason Tatum wants to come back and play. I think you have to let him play because if you don't, now you really could offend your best player, all right, your superstar, I would kind of have an issue with it if it was right before the playoffs. Like if it was a week before the playoffs or a couple or for the playoffs, that would seem like a tough adjustment for them going right into the playoffs. That would be weird. Like I'm ready to go. I will say this. I don't think they can win the East as well as they've played. I don't think they can win the East without Tatum. Correct. So even at that situation, you just bring him back and let it go. And I think for him, I really do. He's a human being. I would feel it. We all would feel it. I think there might be a fear. What if they did win the East or maybe win the championship without him? Like that, I don't think they could do it. But that has to be – that's a fear that, you know, nobody just wants to see that happen. So I think – As you the individual. I think the – I think there's a different psychological piece that potentially is at play here. But first I want to – So I think if he comes back, I do not believe it would be right before the playoffs. I think if you look at the Celtics' schedule, they have a homestand in early March and one in mid-March. I've got to imagine his first game back would be a home game. I would think that if he's going to come back, it will be in the next month. If that can happen, great. Right, and he would have time to ramp up for the playoffs. I think it's on the board. He's back in two weeks. I really do. And I agree with you entirely, Brew, that they can't win the championship as presently constituted. We talked about Jalen Brown being an MVP candidate, as great as the story of the season has been. But here is where I really legitimately feel terribly for Tatum. there are so many paths where he gets unfairly criticized in this. Because we believe they can't win the title without him, but they're the two seed and it is what it is. And the odds are for any team, the Thunder, for the Nuggets, for anybody, the odds are you don't win the title this year. and if he comes back and they don't win the title, there will be some people that will be like, man, maybe he should have just sat out. If he comes back and the way I think it's almost a guarantee that there is a ramp-up period before he looks like old Jason Tatum, people will picket that. Did he come back too early? And the other thing is this. if he does not come back at all and they don't win the title, there will be people that will be like, man, why didn't he come back? We were talking about it. We thought he was going to. I can almost see the narrative criticisms, that train coming down the tracks, and it's like, so the only way he can avoid that is he comes back, by the playoffs is excellent, they make the finals, And then, by the way, even there, by the time you get to the finals, like, hey, remember, Jason Tatum, not a finals MVP, didn't win that last time. Like, there's just a lot of unfair. KW, I'm not. And I hope I'm, you know, that I am. I'm not speaking this into existence. But it feels like all of that is out there for landmines for him when he's trying to have a very quick turnaround from a devastating injury. As the editor of Hobble Watch bro I am not a doctor at all And i have just googled achilles injuries just like every other sports fan but i have a unique take and i 100 right about it an achilles injury is a two-year injury you can play after one year like we saw with aaron rogers but you're not going to be good you're going to be good in two years like we saw with kevin durant durant was 550 days off. Tatum today is at 290. If he was on Durant's timeline, it's November 15th. And on November 15th, he'll look like Jason Tatum. In March, he's not going to look like Jason Tatum. And it's going to screw everything up. And it might screw up your whole career. The smart thing to do is, who's been the most successful Achilles injury, recent Achilles injury? It was Durant. He was out for 550 days, and he came back, and he's still Kevin Durant. The risk of coming back, I think, is I understand it. I get it. You want to play. But man, it's a two year injury. Sit out. See you in November. I think look, I think that's smart. That's a different question. We were talking about should the Celtics bring him back? If he wants to come back and the doctors clear him, I think you got to let him come back. But I agree with you. If you're him, the best thing probably is to say. And I don't think they're going to win it. And I hate to act like he should be sitting there cheering against them. He shouldn't be. But I think he should just wait until next season. They'll have a decent playoff run and then come back ready to go next year at full speed. KW, can I ask you a question on that real quick? Yeah. Because you are mentioning instances of players coming back and not being themselves. but it's not like they come back and then suffer a different catastrophic injury because they came back, right? Yeah. So if the doctors clear him, I do feel like there is an element of if he is able to personally, and this would be very difficult to set aside the athletic ego of I'm not going to be All-NBA MVP candidate Jason Tatum, But I am going to be helpful to my team, and maybe we win. Because, Brew, do you agree with me that the Celtics with a 75% Jason Tatum can absolutely win the East? Because I think that. I don't think Tatum has to. Like if he's their second best player. Yes. So to your point, KW, like if he comes back and is – Rogers is older, so it's a bad example – not apples to apples. But, you know, a lesser version of himself, I still think that might be enough to get the Celtics through the East and then who the hell knows what happens in a finals. Yeah. And so, like, that is – I do think, too, he is – They got Pritchard coming off the bench now. He's their second leading scorer. But I think that's set up. Like, if Pritchard is coming off the bench, that sets it up for Tatum to start. And it's not as much of a disruption because your second leading scorer right now, Pritchard, is not in the starting lineup. So that means that could be. So he's not starting. So you start him, but how much is he playing? Oh, he's going to play a lot. He's going to play his normal minutes. Oh, you think? Pritchard? No, no, no. I'm saying Tatum starts. if you have a starter playing 17 minutes? No, no, no. He's playing close to 30 minutes a night. Welcome back to a toasty episode of First Things First. It's nice and warm in the studio. It's snowy outside. Also warm in California where Nick is. Pro football talk. You know what? What? Is it not warm there? I tried everything. I booked a ticket to D.C. I was going to take the train in. Everything's canceled. There's nothing I can do. We figured it out. Wiles and I figured it out. I was in Hawaii. Yeah, we're back. I wasn't playing cards, though. I wasn't. Do the show. We are. Pro Football Talk, top 100 free agents. George Pickens, number one, had a great year. He was 30 yards per reception. He had nine touchdowns, 137 targets. He really stepped up when CD was out. Now, Nick, he might get franchise tag. Cowboys might trade him. What should Dallas do with George Pickens? Not have traded for him. This is why you don't trade for George Pickens if you don't have a plan. Like, the Cowboys, I think, correctly believe, A, you know, Well, the history of teams that have two $30 million a year receivers, it's one team and they have been arguably the most underachieving team of the last few years, the Cincinnati Bengals. So that's not great. And the history of paying guys who before they get paid have, let's call it eclectic personalities, is scattered throughout NFL history. So that's a concern, which is why, in my opinion, trading for him was so short-sighted. Because if the season he just had, Brew, was not enough for you to be like, you know what, we are paying him what he is going to want to be paid, then nothing would have been enough. like he literally had a better year than anyone could have realistically anticipated and they're still like ah let's do this year to year and he does not strike me as the type of guy that is going to be like oh where do I sign the franchise tag? When's the offseason program? I'll be first in line there fellas and so I just they have they it was very obvious this stumbling block was ahead and they barreled towards it anyway. A month or two ago, I was, and even before that, franchise tagging. That's what you do. Now, I'm to the point where I'm like, trade him or whatever, let him walk. Use the money you would have paid him or if you have to trade. Try to get Max Crosby. Get Max Crosby or some other great defensive player. I know they had Micah Parsons. They blew it. Get a great defensive player or a couple with the money you would take to sign George Pickens. Because here's the deal. As great as Pickens was last year, they were seventh in the league in scoring offense. When Dak Prescott is healthy, you are going to have a top offense. They have been number one in scoring offense twice without Pickens in the last few years. They were fourth another year without Pickens. If Dak is healthy next year, CD is healthy, they just signed Javante Williams again, they're going to be a top offense. The problem is their defense is horrible, so go improve the defense. I'm even to the point where even if Pickens will take the franchise tag, my first option is improve my defense. If I can't do that, maybe I'll franchise tag him. But my first option is go improve the defense. We're going to head to Seattle now where JSN got a championship. Now he's probably going to get a new deal too. One season left on his rookie deal pays him around $14 million, but he's extension eligible and hopes to see a new payday. Here he is on his upcoming new contract. Take a listen. I know my time is coming, and when we get it done, it's going to be a great deal. and God's timing is perfect timing. So whenever that may come, we'll be ready for it. And I think I believe I deserve to be the highest paid in my position. And just what I give to the game and the community, I give it my all. And I think that's worth a lot more. But I would play this game for free. Okay. Nick, do you want to go? Oh, you don't want to go. Oh, you hate this topic? Nick lost audio. Bro, Jamar is the highest paid at around 40 and a quarter. Do you think JSN deserves more than that? Yes. And I'm not necessarily saying he's better than Jamar, but he is fully within – he's right to say he deserves to be the highest paid. Number one, he's an incredibly high-character guy. He just had one of the best wide receiver seasons ever, and they won the Super Bowl and he did it without a tier one quarterback. All right. So it might even and I don't know how signing him now would impact their salary cap and ability to continue to improve the team next season. But assuming that you can do that, I would I think it would be wise to sign him up now, because if you wait a year or two, it's just going to cost you more money. Whereas now you might be able to get him for 40 million a year. If you wait a year, that might be 42 million. If you wait two years, it might be 43 or 44 million a year. So it behooves you to go ahead and get it done now. So I think, you know, look, Darnold is in his prime. And on it like a nice little deal. Yep. Himself. Right. Because what if you have to pay Darnold and then, you know, big money and that affects your ability. he signed JSN. So, you'd probably go ahead and pay JSN now because it'd be cheaper than paying him in a year or two. I totally agree with you. He led the league with almost 1,800 receiving yards. Interesting little note was in the article from this. Seahawks also ran the ball more than anybody else, percentage-wise. So, the fact that he's putting up huge numbers. The other thing, and this is why we're preparing for the Super Bowl, he had 199 yards, two touchdowns in the playoffs. You have to consider him so much. He makes everybody better. He's going to make Kenneth Walker better. Why is Kenneth Walker better? He's extending the field. So I would also pay him, again, it's not my money, but hey, what's the going rate for excellent wide receivers? Jamar is at 40 and a quarter, then JSN should be at 40 a quarter and a dollar. Coming up next, Patoa Ward joins the show, and then after that, Brew weighs in on the new Pat Riley statue. That's next on First Things. Welcome back to First Things First. The fastest racing on earth returns to Fox. Alex Pillow, Joseph Newgard, my guy, two crew still. But I'm open. I'm open to throwing my fandom and support behind someone else like Pato Award. Lead the way as the 2026 IndyCar season launches in St. Petersburg Sunday at noon Eastern live on Fox. Here with us now is Pato Award. Pato, thank you for joining us. I want to wish you good luck for this entire year. Also want to say an early congratulations for being one of the few people to make it to the studio and to work today. Period. Yes. In the snow. Oh, yeah. Did you drive yourself? Tell us about your day in the snow. And if you're not, it is not just a little bit of snow. It's about two feet. Brew and I had stayed over last night. So we were like, surely Pato's going to cancel. Did you drive yourself? Tell us the story. No, man. I'm glad to be here. You know, I got here on Saturday, actually. Saturday evening and I was not expecting a blizzard in New York while I was there or while I'm here but the snow looks like perfect snowball fight snow because it's wet snow it's not so much frozen so it actually is great I threw a ball to my PR guy before we walked in here but no man I'm looking forward to the year I really am I can't wait to to start this you know this new journey It feels like every time we start from zero, right? We obviously want to build on what we've had the last few years. But, I mean, it's a new opportunity to venues that we've been to, new opportunities at venues that we haven't been to. I've been terribly close to the championship and the Indy 500. So, you know, we always say maybe this is the year. So we're trying hard to get that done. Yeah, well, look, first of all, let's start this. Because Wild's tiptoed around it early. He's a new garden guy. I like new garden. Nick Wright, our other co-host, he is Alex Pillow. You're my guy. I'm your guy. Let's go. I'm with you this year. All right. So, like you said, you've been close. How big for your legacy would it be to go ahead and win the whole thing? The 500, but also either or, that or the championship. You know, more than an accomplishment, I think it's just it's a situation that kind of rectifies your whole life's work. You know, like I've sacrificed everything to be in this position. My family has sacrificed truly everything to kind of support me in doing this that I love and have such a passion for. And it consumes you. I know there's not a race every day, but this job does consume you even when you're not driving, you know, there's a lot of media, there's always you have to say the right things, you have to be careful where you're seen. It's just, there's a lot of different things that you have to have in the back of your head that obviously play a big part to what your year is. And I just, I love being able to go racing with people that I've created relationships with, that I've created this journey. I mean, I'm starting, I can't believe I'm starting my 2020, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, my seventh full season in IndyCar. You know, I'm now known like as a veteran. You're still young. Still young. I'm still the old guy in my team, though, shockingly. But it's just cool to be able to go with these, you know, these engineers and these mechanics. A lot of them are still with me that started with me in 2020. and, you know, we're still going strong. We're still fighting. So are you looking for, like, little edges? Specifically about Indy. So we'll be at Indy. Okay. And we sort of got our crash course in Indy, learned all about it last year. Did you go on the two-seater? No, we were too scared. Yeah, we didn't. I would not go. Come on. Drew, you could go. I would be too scared. Did they give us the option? No, I didn't want the option. Yeah, nobody wanted... I might, maybe. I'll pray about it. I'm too scared. Let's see. How fast does a two-seater go? Over 200 miles an hour. That's a no for me. I just heard from them. No, I'm not. It has crashed before. That's the one where he did it. It has crashed before. You finished second twice. You crashed once. Your third last year. Is this a case of finding little improvements around the edges? Or when we were there, a lot of drivers were saying, You know, it's just Indy decides who wants to win on that day. And it's almost like a fate thing. You know, I do believe that luck plays a part, right? There's a lot of things that have to go right in order for you just to have a shot in the last stint. That's the most important one, to be positioned, to be able to have that shot. Yep. But there's a lot that comes into the preparation, man. Like a lot of these guys in the last few years that have won this race, they've been looking good all month. Like they've been doing a good job all month. I don't think any of the cars that I've seen win the last, or honestly all the time that I've been racing at the 500, that's been like, oh, that was a fluke. Yeah. No, they've been really strong all month. It doesn't mean that you have to be the strongest car all month, but you have to be one of the strongest cars all month, or at least you have to be comfortable in your car. And that's what usually takes you to that opportunity to like, you don't have to have that fastest qualifying car. You just have, you have to have a good race car. You can start last and you can win the race. If you have a good race car. And you're in the mix. You're like second. Like, I know you're not happy. Man, in 2024, the most time of the race, I was like 15th, 18th, 14th. And then we brought it to life the last two pit stops where we had a sequence where we had a massive in-lap on both of them. And we cycled to fifth. And then in some way, shape, or form, I found my way to fourth, third, second. And once we were one and two in line, me and Joseph, me and your guy. then that really is just all about timing. It's all about timing it right. And I've been in an instance where you wait one more lap, yellow comes out, your opportunity is done. I went one straightaway too early, and I got overtaken two corners to go and lost it. So, man, I don't think there's ever a perfect decision, but you just have to make the one that go with your gut. And at some point, if you're always in that position, you're bound to win it once, you know? And that's what I'm standing by. Like, I know how to position myself to win this damn race, and I'm going to get it. A couple weeks ago, we were at the Daytona 500. Last year at the Indy 500. Was there a point in your life where you had to decide, do you want to go NASCAR? Do you want to go IndyCar or tell us how you ended up with IndyCar? So when you start racing, I would say both trajectories, you start in go-karts, you know. I've got friends that are in NASCAR, actually, that they also started in go-karts. So I think it's fair to say that's a good starting point for both. But then you choose a direction when you go to single-seaters or to more maybe sprint cars. and stuff like that which is more the nascar route i went single seaters open wheel you know downforce cars with the wings you know because i always thought they would look cool and they're faster and they just sound better and so that to me that's always what drew my attention and that's what i went for so for me actually going into a nascar would be a would be quite a new learning experience and a new challenge because the way that those cars work in the way way that they race, I mean, you don't see us bump drafting. They do. And they're always two lanes. We sometimes have two lanes, but very rarely, actually. It's not always. So you see a lot more single file and obviously the cars are affected much more by the air. So you kind of have to treat it like an airplane, but upside down for us. Those wings do the absolute opposite of an airplane. So, um, I will say the challenges are, are, are absolutely different on each one, but I, yeah, I set my, my course quite early on. Yes. All right. Well, St. We've got St. Petersburg opens up noon on Sunday. Then the next week it's the Phoenix double double that's Indy car. You should just give it a shot. You should just be like, you know what? Okay. So yeah, when they've asked me they're like you know when are you gonna give this a shot or like lemar 24 and i said yes i win the indy 500. my once i get my first indy 500 out of the way then i can start you know where i can explore and see if i can you can't go reverse have a new experience that's like how we talk about you can't do you know right he's like this guy needs to focus on it well it's because i've done endurance racing before i've done the 24 hours of daytona i've done i've done other types of racing quite a bit actually and i feel like my upbringing before i got to indycar was actually super mixed like i did all i drove anything i could get my hands on where now i'm i feel like i'm in a point in my career where i'm like i'm very happy just focusing on indycar because my off season is not as long as all the other guys because i do a lot of the formula one stuff so i've already i'm already pretty packed with two very different cars i don't i don't want I don't want to be disagreeable, but I don't totally think that's true because I have seen you drive the trash car. Oh, the garbage truck. The garbage truck. And Brew was wondering if he could have the new jumpsuit. What about those acting skills? I know. I see. That's good. That's got a future. So, Brew was like, can I wear this? You know, the guys I root for, I wear the Ravens. I wear a purple robe for the Baltimore Ravens. And you're my guy, so I might – can I wear this on the set? You can wear that. Where's I got your name on it? I got you a hat, too. I've got one just like it. And a hat. Yes. We're set. Potomac Award, 90 days till Indy, St. Petersburg on Sunday, then Phoenix the following week. Best of luck this year, Potomac. I appreciate you guys.