Breaking: America and Israel at War with Iran

Pair pen and prata Von Wort.nl Nathan Ready, set, fort. All right, we're recording a bonus Pod Save the World episode because, as I'm sure listeners and viewers have seen, the United States and Israel are once again at war with Iran, so we're going to update you on everything we know as of Saturday afternoon. So this started at Saturday at 1.15 a.m. Eastern Time, which is 9 a.m. Tehran Time. the U.S. and Israel launched airstrikes on Iran. The U.S. military is calling this Operation Epic Fury. It's so totally epic, Ben, that Trump launched the war from his country club in Florida. Targets so far include the supreme leader of Iran, his compound. The Israelis say the supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, is dead, and that Netanyahu was shown footage of his body. That's in news reports. Iran says that's false. We'll find out, I guess. But as we've noted, the supreme leader is 86. So he was about to regime change himself, but his death would be a massive seismic event in Iranian history, given the role he plays in their system. It sounds like he was specifically targeted by the Israelis and not by U.S. forces, and that they also targeted the Supreme Leader's son, but he may have survived. President Pezheshkian was reportedly targeted as well. Again, the Iranians say he's alive, but we'll find out. The timing of the strikes were reportedly based on intelligence about when senior regime officials would all be meeting. Israel said they had about three gatherings of Iranian officials simultaneously. Israel said 200 jets bombed 500 targets. They did it during the daylight because they thought that would be a surprise. Israel said it killed the head of Iran's IRGC, the Minister of Defense, and a bunch of other top military officials. And it seems like the U.S. is confirming that they agreed that about five to ten top Iranian leaders are now dead. The U.S. said they hit 900 targets in the first 12 hours. They were focused on military sites, including the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps command and control facilities, air defense targets, missiles, drone sites, military airfields. Iranian state TV says that one airstrike hit a girls elementary school and killed 85 people. Obviously, we can't confirm that, but CENTCOM says they're looking into those reports. So Iran so far has responded by firing missiles and drones at Israel. It sounds like they fired off about 300 of them. Now they fired at U.S. bases. They fired at civilian targets as well in UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and Jordan. Most of these Iranian missiles and drones seem to have been taken out by air defense systems. But there are some pretty scary videos out there on social media of either Iranian ballistic missiles or Iranian drones striking targets, including civilian targets like a high rise building in Bahrain or a hotel in Dubai. On Saturday, Iran's Revolutionary Guard announced that, quote, no ship is allowed to pass the Strait of Hormuz. So they're saying they're going to close the Strait of Hormuz. We'll see if Iran can deliver on that promise. But if they are able to, the economic impact would be massive. Every day, about 20 million barrels of oil pass through the Strait of Hormuz. It's about one fifth of the world's supply. Then there's other shipping. Trump released a video statement about all of this this morning. In it, Trump kind of played all the hits, Ben, when it comes to U.S.-Iran tensions. He talked about the U.S. embassy personnel being held hostage in 1979. Talked about the 1983 Marine barracks bombing. He claimed that Iran was involved in the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000, which is just not true. Someone should tell al-Qaeda that. I think they take credit. He also once again claimed that Iran will soon be able to reach the U.S. with its ballistic missiles, which again is a lie. Here's an excerpt of Trump. I think this is the section of the speech that seemed to most specifically lay out the goals of this conflict. Let's watch. There's always been the policy of the United States, in particular, my administration, that this terrorist regime can never have a nuclear weapon. We sought repeatedly to make a deal. We tried. They wanted to do it. They didn't want to do it. Again, they wanted to do it. They didn't want to do it. They didn't know what was happening. They just wanted to practice evil. We are going to destroy their missiles and raise their missile industry to the ground. It will be totally, again, obliterated. We are going to annihilate their navy. We are going to ensure that the region's terrorist proxies can no longer destabilize the region or the world. The lives of courageous American heroes may be lost, and we may have casualties that often happens in war. To the members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard, the armed forces, and all of the police, I say tonight that you must lay down your weapons and have complete immunity, or in the alternative, face certain death. Finally, to the great proud people of Iran, I say tonight that the hour of your freedom is at hand. When we are finished, take over your government. It will be yours to take. this will be probably your only chance for generations for many years you have asked for america's help but you never got it no president was willing to do what i am willing to do tonight now you have a president who is giving you what you want so let's see how you respond this is the moment for action do not let it pass okay so ben let's uh pause there just get your reaction you know, sort of what you've seen so far and sort of events in the world and also Trump's speech. What do you make of it? Yeah, it's always reassuring to have a president launch an illegal and unnecessary war wearing a baseball cap in the middle of the night at Mar-a-Lago. Yeah, that's where I wanted to be. But putting that aside for the moment. I think the headline here is that this is the regime change war. And we've walked up to this precipice with Trump like several times. And each time he took a more limited action, whether it was assassinated in Qasem Soleimani or whether it was the 12-day war when he bombed nuclear sites principally. But this is clearly based on rhetoric and targets, like an effort to change the Iranian regime. Now, the problem with that, though, is that even though that's clear, nothing is clear about what the end game is, right? Even if the supreme leader is killed, the Iranian regime is a very deep regime. He mentioned the IRGC, the police, and the military. That's millions of people who are under arms in the Iranian regime. And so whether this devolves into civil conflict and chaos or whether some IRGC-led regime emerges, we have no greater clarity today than we did before this began about how the U.S. sees this thing ending. And we do see already some of the consequences that could come from this war. We're only one day in, but we've already seen Iran, unlike last time where they showed some pretty calibrated restraint. It seems like they're firing missiles in all directions. They're trying to exact a cost on the Gulf countries for hosting U.S. bases or just to kind of create a sense that, you know, if we burn, you burn too. They're launching missiles at not just bases, at Israel as well. And so we're seeing the beginning of what could be a kind of regionalization of this conflict. And so this is a very dangerous moment. And I have no reassurance from Trump or anybody around him that there's a plan for how to land this plane beyond, we're going to go in there and destroy as much of this regime as we can before it becomes kind of almost politically unsustainable for us to be bombing this country. then we'll stop. And oh, you know, you Iranians rise up. But if those Iranians are massacred again, if it turns into a civil war, there's no plan B. Yeah. I mean, it just, it's not clear to me that Trump realizes that he started something that he's not able to stop because Trump is doing a round of interviews. He's talked to like NBC, Axios, a bunch of other outlets. He told Axios, he has several off ramps to end the conflict. One of the quotes was, I can go long and take over the whole thing or end it in two or three days until the Iranians see you in a few years. If you start rebuilding, in any case, it will take them several years to recover from this attack. And it's like, I mean, first of all, no, you can't take over the entire country unless you send in troops to occupy the country. And if that's on the table, you should probably tell us. Second, like, we don't know really if Trump is actually thinking about off ramps or if Barack Reveed in this five minute call was like, hey, what's your off ramp? And he was like, I got a bunch of them. Trump also told Axios that that he asked his team to compile every Iranian linked attack around the world in the last 25 years. And clearly that was sort of reflected in the speech he made. But if you have to do that, it seems like you're really struggling to justify why this has to happen now. And I think all of that just speaks to your point, which is like, we have no idea what's going to happen next. This could end quickly, or this could go on for a long time. And by the way, thank you for watching this episode of Pods of the World. Please subscribe on wherever you get podcasts or on YouTube, because we're going to be covering this story really, really closely. And we're not going to mindlessly regurgitate fucking neocon talking points the way a lot of other news outlets are this morning. It's just like, it's very hard to watch. Um, no one seems to remember the Iraq war or be learning the lessons. So please subscribe to pod save the world. Then I also noticed that, that, that Reuters had a story that the CIA assessed before the strikes that even if Iran Supreme leader were killed in the operation, he would likely just be replaced by hardline figures in the IRGC. So like, again, like the end goal is not clear. And I noticed this morning again, like Trump has been lying about Iran's nuclear program and ballistic missile programs. Um, Gideon Saar, Israel's foreign minister, said that this military action was urgently needed because, quote, delay would have allowed the Iranian regime to reach a level of immunity for its nuclear program, as well as to engage in the mass production of long-range ballistic missiles. But that's just, it's false. That is absolutely a lie. Like, no expert, no one I've seen has suggested that Iran was on the cusp of, like, revamping its nuclear program. Yeah. I mean, the war is illegal domestically and internationally. the war is unnecessary as a matter of timing. The threats that they're pointing to do nothing to explain. I mean, the fact that in that litany that Trump gave, he was talking about roadside bombs in Iraq 10 years ago. Is that a reason to go to war now? I mean, obviously those are terrible things that happen, but it's an absurd reason to launch a war now. The only new pretext they developed is this ICBM threat, which is totally false. Iran has long had an ICBM program. It cannot hit the United States with an ICBM, is nowhere near being able to do that, and doesn't have a nuclear weapon. And so it matters that this is being done under false pretenses with very little public support and no legal basis, because it's not a very strong footing to take the country into a war of regime change in a country over 90 million people. Now, we know Israel wants this. I mean, Bibi Netanyahu has been pushing for this for a very long time. His whole life, yeah. And he finally got this kind of window with Trump because he sees that Trump is a guy that is willing to ignore Congress in public opinion. Trump's a guy who, frankly, has done what Bibi Nanyal has wanted to do before, whether it was moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem or the 12-day war. And one thing that I was thinking about, Tommy, is that it doesn't matter how many days he bombs Iran. We are in a forever war with Iran One way to think about this is the 12 war was not a 12 war This is still part of the war Once you start bombing a country this is the same war as the 12 war that happening. Just because you periodically stop bombing doesn't mean you're not in a forever war. And so Trump can spin it however he wants to MAGA supporters from Tucker Carlson to his own vice president who have political identities based on opposing this. But the reality is that we are in this. And the world is going to see, you know, whatever happens in Iran next, they're going to see as the responsibility of the United States and Donald Trump personally. And as we talked about, whether it's civil conflict, refugee flows into other countries, major energy disruptions in the Straits of Hormuz, you know, periods of calm followed by periods of dramatic violence. I mean, this could go all kinds of ways. But the one thing we know is that Iran is now added to that list of forever wars. And it's the biggest country yet that we've tried to do this in. And we're doing it with no boots on the ground. And we're doing it in conjunction with Israel, which we've also never done. We've never done a regime change war literally with the Israelis. So that is going to create impressions in the world too. And I just think there's no real discussion of this by Trump. cold days, big goals, no time to cook. Factor makes healthy eating easy with fully prepared meals designed by dieticians and crafted by chefs to eat well without the planning or cooking. Factor meals are made with quality functional ingredients, including lean proteins, colorful veggies, whole food ingredients, and healthy fats. No refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners, no refined seed oils, meals that fit your goals and schedule, healthier eating, calorie management, more protein. Choose from a menu of 100 rotating weekly meals to keep things fresh and delicious through winter. Options include high protein, calorie smart, Mediterranean diet, GLP one support, and ready to eat salads. Plus the new muscle pro collection supports strength and recovery. Factor meals are always fresh and ever frozen, ready in about two minutes, no prep, no stress. So factor sent me a bunch of great meals. I couldn't believe how easy it was. You just microwave them for like two minutes. There was a really good teriyaki salmon bowl with rice and some green beans. There was a delicious chicken, green chili chicken with cauliflower rice and some queso. It was all delicious. It was super easy to make. I loved it. My kids liked it. Highly recommend. Head to factormeals.com slash PSTW50off and use code PSTW50off to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. Eat like a pro this month with Factor. new subscribers only, varies by plan, one free breakfast item per box for one year while subscription is active. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform designed to elevate your online presence and drive your success. Squarespace provides all the necessary tools to claim your domain, build a professional website, expand your brand, and facilitate payments, making it the ideal solution for businesses of all sizes. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place, From consultations to events to experiences, showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. Start with Blueprint AI, Squarespace's AI-enhanced website builder, to get a fully custom website in just a few steps, using basic information about your industry goals and personality to generate premium quality content and personalized design recommendations. Squarespace makes it easy to showcase your expertise and engage clients with video content on your website, upload and organize your videos, create stunning video libraries, and even monetize your content by adding a paywall. perfect for online courses, exclusive tutorials, and premium workshops. Every dream needs a domain. Squarespace domains make it easy to find the best name for your business at one fair, all-inclusive price. No hidden fees or add-ons required. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash world to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash world. And so, you know, like, and to that point, I mean, there will absolutely be Iranians, I think, who are happy about the Supreme Leader being dead or the regime toppling. And I'm sure the U.S. and Israel will amplify those voices, especially on people in cities, people in Tehran who understandably hate the regime. But we have no idea what the majority of the Iranian people think, especially people in rural areas. We don't know how they'll react. We don't know what's going to come next if the Supreme Leader is in fact dead and there's a massive power vacuum and potential for civil war and other problems. So, I mean, it just feels like this is all ahead of us. Abbas Arachi, Iran's foreign minister, was on NBC News this morning. Here's a little piece of what he had to say then. You cannot do regime change while millions of people are supporting these so-called regime. Look, in the past 47 years, the United States has tried everything from coup, from sanctions, eight years of war by Saddam Hussein, supported by the United States and many others. and then, you know, 12-day war, snapback, you know, in the Security Council and, you know, terrorist operations. They have tried everything and all of them failed. And I don't know why they don't, you know, understand their failures. So if they want to repeat a failed experience, they won't get any better results. If Americans want to talk to us, they know how they can contact me. we are certainly interested for de-escalation this is not our war this is an imposed war against us this is a war of choice by the United States and they have to pay for that and I will they will so pretty defiant there still we'll see if that tone holds over the next few days um Ben I've been struck by Iran's decision or the how they've responded I mean like they've been targeting densely populated urban areas filled with civilians they've been hitting targets in like Bahrain and Dubai, which, you know, in the near term, seems like the best possible way to get the entire Gulf to rally against you. That said, maybe the calculus is just like, let's up the cost of this war in every way. Let's inflame these populations, see if we can turn them against their governments for supporting the US and not in Israel and not Iran. I've also seen reports that Iran has fired at Saudi oil infrastructure. I'm not sure if those are true. It doesn't sound like they've hit anything yet. I think, you know, the big question I have is like, how long will the Iranians be able to retaliate and what will it look like? Fox News says Iran fired about 300 missiles today. They have 2000 long range missiles and 2000 shorter range missiles total. I'm confident that the US and Israel have taken out a bunch of those and they will methodically take out as many of the missiles and drones as they can. But that could take a while and you're not guaranteed to get all of them. We also don't really know what the Iranian Navy will be able to do. And maybe just the mere threat of going after shipping in the street of Hormuz will be enough to choke off oil flows. We should watch the Houthis. We should watch Hezbollah, all these proxy groups, including some that might be abroad or in American cities is something to worry about. And then again, as we talked about last week, Iran has some pretty advanced cyber capabilities. We don't know if and how they might use those. So a lot of this is just like, I think, wait and see for a while here. Yeah. I mean, the first point is that, you know, Arachi, it's not clear, you know, who he even reports to at this point. Yeah, who's he taking orders from. And then negotiation, the Iranians have been bombed now twice in the middle of a nuclear negotiation where they were making concessions. So the idea that that's a pathway to de-escalation seems less likely to me. You laid out well what their options are for response, right? But they're not going to do all of them. So we're not suggesting that all these things will happen, but they are all the available paths, ballistic missiles, drones, asymmetric attacks, including terrorist attacks, proxy attacks across the region, cyber attacks. All these things are kind of in the Iranian kit. And the question is essentially, do they try to kind of empty the magazine here in the early days, or do they kind of periodically do these kind of waves of strikes and try to make this war hurt for people in Israel and the United States and the region over time. I agree with you. It's interesting. There are strikes on the Gulf countries, and they hit just about every one, except Oman. And that was interesting. Oman was the one that was not hit. Some of them were just strikes at US military facilities, and that makes sense and no surprise. These other strikes that include drone attacks, as you referenced on places like Dubai and Bahrain, It does seem like that the message they're trying to send is, you know, so long as we are under attack, you are not secure. And yes, they're taking the risk that certainly the Gulf governments now will probably feel potentially more inclined to allow the U.S. to use bases to attack Iran. Thus far, a lot of the Gulf countries have opted out of that or maybe even participate themselves. But you also make the point that the U.S. doing this in conjunction with Israel, the publics in these countries will surely be mad at Iran for what they're doing. But also, I think we'll blame Israel, who there's no love for in the region, as well as the United States for launching this war. and essentially the sense that the US and Israel are involved in kind of a strategy of creating chaos in the region, that whether it's the strikes in Lebanon or Syria or Yemen or now Iran, that there's this kind of moving wrecking ball of chaos that is harming people. And we should be, that school, I guarantee you the number one image of the war being consumed around the world. Well, if not number one, it's certainly up there is the image of those parents screaming because they lost their children in that school. It's a horrifying video. And so look, so in a weird way, Iran is kind of reinforcing the chaos strategy. It's like, see, look what's happening. We have no choice but to kind of pour gasoline on this fire that was set. And again, it's gonna make them a lot of enemies. But I think that their view is like, we have to set as many fires as we can to make this war feel as uncomfortable for people as we can. But to me, the ultimate future of the war will be determined inside of Iran, inside the politics of Iran. And that we don't know how that's going to play out at all. Yeah, it does seem like they've decided they have to up the cost. I mean, anyone who was saying that in advance was right. So Ben, I know like nobody in the United States cares about hypocrisy or anymore or, you know, lies, but we should just point out that Trump explicitly ran against regime change wars and wars in the Middle East in particular. In 2011, he had this to say about a war with Iran and Obama. Let's watch. Our president will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate. He's weak and he's ineffective. So the only way he figures that he's going to get reelected and as sure as you're sitting there is to start a war with Iran. In August of 2013, Trump tweeted, quote, the president must get congressional approval before attacking Syria. Big mistake if he does not. J.D. Vance wrote an op ed with a headline in the Wall Street Journal. This is from January 2023. Trump's best foreign policy, not starting any wars. He has my support in 2024 because I know he won't recklessly send Americans to fight overseas Tulsi Gabbard used to sell Ben no war with Iran t And now just know make sure she was fully humiliated There images of her sitting in the situation room watching the war unfold at like the kids table hosted by JD Vance while Trump's down at Mar-a-Lago. David Sachs, who is not really relevant to this debate, but as someone we personally find loathsome, tweeted in March of last year. What did removing Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad get us? Chaos, civil war, genocide. The rule for regime change operations in the Middle East is they don't flip a country from bad to good. They flip a country from bad to worse. Pretty good point there from David Sacks. Like, again, the war started. It is what it is. But I do think it is worth pointing out how much Trump lied and how we ran against this, because maybe parts of MAGA will go along with anything he does and says. I understand that. But a significant percentage will not. They think this is a bad idea because they don't want to see American service members killed. They don't want to spend the money. They feel like we are getting led around on our foreign policy by NetYahu and the Israeli government. And those are things that will be harmful to Trump politically. Yeah. I mean, this is going to be a real cleavage inside of his coalition, right? I mean, this is, again, it's not a secondary issue for a lot of people. You know, Tucker Carlson, Steve Bannon, I mean, really the leading lights, such as they are, of MAGA. And look, what's amazing about this is that one of Trump's most effective arguments was this one against ending forever wars. It was central to his rise, right? When he dismantled Jeb Bush on the debate stage in 2015 over Iraq, no other Republican would, that's when he moved to the front of the pack. He would not be president without his kind of repeated opposition to this idea of forever wars. In the first term too, he was much more careful about the United States getting into conflicts. He has now bombed seven or eight countries, I've lost track, in just the first 13 months of his second term. And he's proving to be not the kind of disruptive corrective to American imperialism and wars of aggression and forever wars. If anything, he's proving to be the uber manifestation of it. I mean, even these targets he's going after are kind of the old in the closet, you know, targets of hardline Republicans like Lindsey Graham. Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, you know, this is all the ancient history in the Republican hawk cupboard. is coming out. And people know that, you know, and nobody asked for this. And Tommy, I'd say, just to take another point that doesn't get discussed much, the price tag for this thing, I was talking to- Billions. I was talking to somebody today who was suggesting to me that if it's just even like a few weeks, tens of billions, right? This massive amount of military force moving and deploying into the Middle East, and then all these munitions being used, maybe the damage that's being done, we saw some damage to our facility in Bahrain. I mean, do Americans want us to be spending tens of billions of dollars to aggrandize Donald Trump to go along with Bibi Netanyahu's obsession with, you know, killing the Supreme Leader and moving the Iranian regime? No, they don't. And look, normally I kind of roll my eyes. And when you hear from like military people that were, our stockpiles are running lower, this or that, because like, you know, look, we have a lot of weapons, but experts will tell you that we really are running seriously low on interceptor missiles for missile defense systems. We're running low on the Tomahawk missiles, the T-LAMs. If there is a war with China, God forbid, or if we need to respond to them taking Taiwan, like we will be dangerously low on munitions. The Chinese are happy about this. And yes, Trump told us he would end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours. And instead, he has launched two regime change wars in the first two months of 2026. Like I we have to be able to prosecute that case, Ben, which I think brings us to the Democratic Party's response so far. So like candidly, most responses I've seen have been pretty weak. There's some exceptions that we should talk about. They have been focused on the process and Trump's obligation to come to Congress for a vote before going to war, which of course is true, but it's like not my main issue with going to war with Iran. Some Democrats have focused on Trump, you know, not explaining his strategy or making the case. Again, I agree with them, but not the issue. So like what I just want to see from Democrats is go at the heart of why this is a bad idea. I want them to say there is no urgent threat from Iran's nuclear or ballistic missile program to the United States. Talk about how regime change wars have ended disastrously, both for the U.S., for the countries we launched them in, for the rest of the world. Look at the migration crisis in Europe. Trump has started something he cannot control. It doesn't matter what he tells you. And he now owns the consequences. And then there's just the fact that Americans don't want this. There was a YouGov poll very recently, like earlier this month, that asked, do you support or oppose the U.S. using military force to attack Iran? 27% of adults supported it. 24% were not sure. 49% were somewhat or strongly opposed. That include 54% of independents who opposed and 19% of Republicans who opposed the war. So keep making that case, right? Like Trump ran against this. Democrats have to make that argument. Like there's a war powers vote next week, which again, good on Ro Khanna and Thomas Massey for pushing this, but it's a little late guys. You know, this is what you and I were complaining about last week. We're getting yelled at by people on Twitter, but you know, it's like, now is not the time for, you know, long statements that are four paragraphs of throat clearing about how bad Iran is before we get to the heart of the matter, which is this being a catastrophically bad idea. So I don't know, what's your advice for Democrats who might be figuring out what to say? Well, first of all, you're right. Cause we saw this build up for weeks. Good on Ro Khanna for tabling this resolution. But to the people who are telling us, oh, we're working it through the process. Well, you just proved the point that if you really cared about this thing, you would have fought like hell to get a vote on this before Trump actually bombed the country. It kind of speaks to how Congress has been absent on this thing that they're going to have the vote after. I want to pick out some of the people who've been good, and I'm not going to be able to name check everybody, but like Tim Kaine and Chris Van Hollen in the Senate. And long-term consistent, both of them, about war powers, Kaine in particular. Yeah. Criticize Democrats, criticize the Republicans. Yep. And not just war powers, though. As diverse people as Tim Kaine, Chris Van Hollen and AOC had different components where they're like, it's illegal, it's unnecessary. They lied about the reasons to do it. And it ignores the lessons of history, of regime change wars in the Middle East. So that's an objection on policy, process, history, all of it, right? That's the kind of case you can make. Jason Crow, I think, made a very powerful case as a veteran where he's like, not only is this not what the American people want, this doesn't lower prices, but time and again, working class people have been screwed because they have to foot the bill for these wars by fighting in them or paying the taxes for them. So there's a kind of populist message that I think is important. It's not just like politics. It's true. It is fundamentally true. And so I think no defensiveness, the process is one piece of a much bigger picture here as to why this is wrong. And I think Democrats have to be willing to make that argument. You know, it's interesting to me, Tommy, that you mentioned that the polls fluctuate to 70 to 80% of Americans are opposed to this. You also saw a public opinion poll for the first time the other day that more Americans sympathize with Palestinians than Israelis. And that is an overwhelming majority among Democrats. And let's just name the fact that oftentimes the people who seem the most reluctant to oppose this war are those Democrats who are most supportive of Israel and Congress. And so we should just not be afraid to talk about the fact that this is part of the dynamic here, because there's a very clear correlation between people who take AIPAC money and who've been supportive of Bibi Nenya in the past, who are going to either vote no on that resolution or been kind of pretty teepid about this. And look, Donald Trump, people including us, gave him credit for getting tough with Netanyahu sometimes. But that's out the window now. He just went to war in part because Bibi Netanyahu wanted him to. So don't ever tell me again about how Donald Trump uses this leverage. The Democratic Party can be the anti-war party, can be the party that wants to change a dysfunctional relationship with Israel, change a dysfunctional approach to the Middle East, that learned the lessons of history, and that is saying it's time to stop spending money on this stuff and start investing in the things that Americans actually want us to be doing. And I also saw the Israelis are using the occasion of this war to once again cut off aid into Gaza. So there's just so many bad things happening right now. Pase of the World is brought to you by Helix. Look, it's getting a little colder out there. easy to convince yourself to stay inside, maybe watch a movie, maybe never leave your bed. If you're going to do that, you need a comfortable bed. And if you're looking for the best one on the market, check out Helix. Helix offers a variety of mattresses designed to fit your sleep needs. How do you know which Helix mattress works best for you and your body? You take the Helix Sleep Quiz. It matches you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences, making it easy to find a mattress that suits your sleep needs. Helix will deliver your mattresses right to your door with free shipping in the US. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk-free customer-first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. You can rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges that even offer a 120-night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. Go to helixsleep.com slash world for 27% off-site wide. That's helixsleep.com slash world for 27% off-site wide. This offer is exclusive to our listeners. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com slash world. Positive World is brought to you by SelectQuote. Time for some life talk, life insurance talk, that is. You probably have it, but do you know how much you're paying for it and how much you are being covered? Odds are you pay too much for too little. And did you know if you receive life insurance through your job and you're unexpectedly laid off, you could suddenly be covered for nothing? Scary to think about that, but simple to get it right. Thanks to SelectQuote. For over 40 years, SelectQuote has been one of the most trusted brokers in insurance, helping more than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. Their mission is simple, to find the right insurance policy for your unique needs. They shop, you save. Unlike other one-size-fits-all, life insurance companies, SelectQuotes licensed agents work for you. In as little as 15 minutes, they'll compare policies from top-rated carriers to find you the best fit for your health and your budget. And they work for you for free. No medical exam, no problem. They partner with providers offering same-day coverage up to $2 million without needing to visit your doctor. You have high blood pressure, diabetes, or heart disease? SelectQuote partners with policies designed for many pre-existing health conditions so you get the protection you deserve. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than 50% at selectquote.com slash world. Save more than 50% on term life insurance at selectquote.com slash world. Go today to get started. Selectquote.com slash world. Ben, let's talk about the international reaction before we kind of have any concluding thoughts. There a big roundup of people kind of countries and leaders responding like the UN secretary general condemned the attack The Canadians were like full throated in their support Mark Carney was full throated in his support So were the Australians Anthony Albanese was like fully in support of what Trump was doing Prime Minister Keir Starmer over in the UK notably said that the UK has refused to participate in the attack, which I think has made a lot of headlines in the UK. But like, I don't know, his tone, but he condemned the Iranians primarily for responding. And then there was a joint statement with the UK, Germany and France. that was mostly about the Iranian response. The Turks called on both sides to de-escalate. China called on Iran's sovereignty to be respected. Russia denounced the attack in all the ways you'd expect. It's kind of a jumbled mess. No one seems willing or able to really stand up to Trump in this moment. But did anything jump out at you? In particular, what the fuck do you make of the Canadians and the Australians being so for this? So those are the ones that jumped out to me. um and and look you're right i think privately you get these leaders in a room and they did not want this to happen because they're aware of all the consequences i mean if the europeans who you know i don't even know you can read their statements over and over again and have no idea what the fuck their position is you know the eu or emmanuel macron like it's kind of word salads you know about how bad the iranians are but we have to have consultations and we're concerned but you know they're the ones by the way who could end up getting refugees uh like from this if it goes really south. But to me, what stood out, Mark Carney, who we praised a lot and has gotten a lot of praise, he stood up at Davos and said that the international order was broken because it only worked for the powerful countries. And therefore, the middle powers had to have their own views on things. And I think what's really disappointing about his statement is, I guess he was only talking about trade. I guess we don't care if the United States just goes around bombing countries with impunity, and Israel goes around much more than the United States even bombing countries with impunity. So why not stand up to Trump on this one? What is the purpose? He doesn't even have to be full-throated in opposition, but that statement tilted towards support, as did Albanese. So I don't know. I was a little disappointed in that because it's like everything else. If Trump feels like he can do these things, and the democratic world is going to kind of fall into line or at least kind of be pretty passive about it. It just lowers the bar on him doing it. And that's the thing is he could be doing this again and again, right? In Iran, he could kind of keep bombing again and again. We could do this in Cuba. You know, Greenland could come back in the picture. Panama, like all these other places. And so you have to be thinking ahead to creating some guardrails around what Trump is doing. Yeah. Yeah. And look, you and I recorded an episode yesterday about how Afghanistan and Pakistan are at war. You know, the Pakistani said, we are an open war, full-throated war with Afghanistan. There are millions of people who, you know, are getting pushed across either border. Iran shares a big border with Afghanistan and Pakistan. If Iran descends into civil war or chaos, as you said earlier, like a lot of people will be harmed. A lot of people will become refugees, will get pushed out of the country. There could be massive refugee flows. Just, you know, like this is like we're like minute one of the of the game here. And it seems like Trump is already trying to spike the ball with all these phone calls and, you know, bragging to press and et cetera. But I don't know. So, look, I guess we'll wait and see if the Supreme Leader is really dead. We'll wait and see who will take his place, if that is the case. Any other things you're watching in the next kind of 12, 24 hours? Well, so if the Supreme Leader is dead, I would definitely, how is that announced? Who announces it? Is there a succession plan? I mean, I think we'll get a pretty quick understanding of the kind of political strategy and dynamic inside the Iranian leadership. So I think that's an important thing to watch. Do Iranians heed Trump's call to kind of rise up and start to create like a civil conflict, essentially, so that there are clashes in the streets, just like there are clashes in the air? I love when the American leaders in Netanyahu call on mostly unarmed Iranians to rise up and fight their military. And that will end well for them, I'm sure. But sorry, continue. No, that, yeah. Netanyahu in particular, it's like, let me speak directly to the Iranian people, you know. The separate, you know, in the Kurdish areas and the Baluk areas of Iran, I get, you know, a lot of people may not follow this, but there are kind of longstanding separatist movements in those regions. Do they start to try to rise up, which could threaten the territorial integrity of Iran? So there's a lot to watch. I think that I want to just echo something you said, Tommy, like we tend to consume these things in news cycles. And even Trump loves that 12 day war, right? Like this is going to play out for years, you know, and it's going to look terrible sometimes and may look fine at other times. But like we are in, you could argue that we are in this war now because we had a coup that we sponsored in 1953 in Iran. And that looked great on the first day, too. And like, look where we are now. And so we just have to recognize this is going to unfold like over a long period of time. Yeah. And this thing might end up feeling cost free to Americans again because no U.S. service members are hurt or killed. I pray to God that no U.S. service members are hurt or killed or Americans abroad. But there is already an enormous cost to the Iranian people. Like hundreds are probably dead or wounded already. I mean, this story about the strike on a girl's school is horrific. Like Iran is a country that was dealing with an economic crisis. Tehran is a place where they're about to run out of water because of climate change and other mismanagement and other reasons. So like it's a population that has suffered enormously. There was this massive crackdown on protesters, you know, a couple months back, which Trump is sort of cynically making part of his messaging about why he had to bomb them again. Like, again, I'm sure there are some Iranians who are in the streets who hate the regime, who will be happy that the Supreme Leader has taken out and like just sort of hope for something better. I just my fear with all of this, having been through Iraq and Afghanistan and the Arab Spring and just a lot of kind of turmoil is that the guys with the guns tend to end up on top. And in this case, the guys with the guns aren't much better than, you know, the Ayatollah and the Supreme Leader and the religious figures who have been in charge of Iran since, you know, 1979 or, you know, 89, I think, in terms of Kamene's tenure. Yeah, I mean, I think you probably know, Tommy, two people in the Iranian diaspora who are very supportive of this military intervention. I understand the anger and trauma that people feel in the diaspora. I just sincerely believe that the United States and Israel bombing Iran to bring about regime change creates more risks, frankly, than it does opportunities. And principally, the reason I believe that is, to your point, when I think of the places where there have been you know, regime change, let's expand it beyond even US wars to Arab Spring, right? Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, I'm leaving some out. But in every case, Sudan, where the people did rise up, in every case, you either had like a civil war that was hugely destabilizing and disruptive and a loss of life. Or you add the guys with guns come back and be even more repressive, right? Like the Egyptian government that emerged was more repressive even than Mubarak, right? And so that's why we sincerely just don't think this is the right way. It's not out of any, no love for this regime. It's been horrible for the Iranian people. But I think we just have to learn from history. And I just want to come back to what you mentioned it, Tommy. I don't know if you have a final thought on this. The media coverage, some of it's very good, but some of it is just, what are we doing here, people? I know. You had people credibly referring to the Israeli statement that this was like a preemptive strike, like preemptive. I know, I know. Preemptive what? What? What are we preempting? That's Iraq war language. It's almost like they were trolling the US media and just being a stenographer for this fucking bullshit. especially when we were told the nuclear infrastructure was quote unquote totally and completely obliterated in June of last year the President of the United States said that it's just like come on guys just like be a little more credulous of anything this guy says or that Netanyahu says yeah all right well look thank you guys for watching or listening to this please subscribe to Pod Save the World wherever you get your podcasts or here on YouTube I don't know if we'll be back tomorrow but we'll be watching this very closely we'll be covering this all week long so we appreciate you guys watching and sharing this and you know let us know what else you want to hear and we appreciate it. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Adrian Hill is our senior vice president of news and politics. If you want to listen to Pod Save the World ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to crooked.com slash friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. Don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter for more original content, host takeovers, and other community events. Please subscribe to Pod Save the World on YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and much more. And if you're opinionated like us, leave a review. Our production staff is proudly unionized by the Writers Guild of America East. If you guys like Pod Save America, please consider subscribing to our Friends of the Pod program. So Friends of the Pod get lots of stuff. You get more Pod Save America. That includes our new show, which is called Pod Save America Only Friends. It's where Dan gets naked. where Dan gets full frontal nudity, but mostly it's a bi-weekly subscription-exclusive podcast that is basically Pots of America, but behind a paywall, so it's a little bit looser and more fun, and it's Lovett and Favreau and me and Pfeiffer and then other Crooked hosts who go deeper on the news and cover more stories. You also get OpenTabs, which is a weekly behind-the-scenes newsletter from the show, plus you get ad-free episodes of your favorite Crooked podcast and all kinds of other stuff. Dan will come to your house and clean it once every quarter. Dan's, yeah, clothed. Dan is very busy, clothed only. But along with just getting great content, becoming a friend of the pod, joining our subscription community is the number one thing you can do to help us grow, to help independent progressive media. So if you ever thought about doing it, if you ever wanted more Pod Save America, consider going to crooked.com slash friends and becoming a friend of the pod. Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your 1 euro per month trial and start selling today at shopify.nl. That's shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side.