Forevergreen: Behind The Story

Real Life presents the Jack Hibbs Podcast, with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, equip the saints, and impact our culture. Hey everybody, we are in store for a great treat. I'm so excited about this, you're going to be excited about it. We are gonna take you behind the scenes to an amazing, I'm gonna call it a technology parable that is worthy of that title, and so, so articulate regarding the gospel. Let's find out what we're talking about. Here is Jack Hibbs. Well, hey, everybody. We are super excited. I got to tell you, you're going to be excited. I am super excited. I think that the 68-year-old guy, since I saw this short film, became a nine-year-old all over again. We're going to be speaking to Jeremy Spears and Nathan Englehart regarding the remarkable creation of something that I've never seen before. I mean, this is in the realm of illustration and communication. This is my opinion. It just transcends so many things that you have seen. But these two men, for example, Nathan, he's an animation supervisor who has worked on films such as Wreck-It Ralph, Big Hero 6. My grandkids love that. Zootopia, Frozen 2, Encanto, Rio, and so much more. He has been, that is Nathan has been, he has written and directed the Oscar nominated animated short film Forever Green, which is what we're going to be talking about today, which is his directorial debut, quite frankly. And then also Jeremy Spears is an award-winning story artist, and you're going to see why in a moment. And he has helped create beloved characters and stories for such films as Zootopia 2, Encanto, Wreck-It Ralph, Moana, Frozen. And in his free time, he creates unique wooden sculptures, which I hope he'll show us something like that today. And in his whittling workshop, his latest passion and project is directing the Oscar-nominated animated short film Forever Green as well. Gentlemen, welcome to our quick podcast together. I know that you guys are up against a hard stop as I am, but welcome to our show. And just for those who are not familiar, when I saw your short film, I was captivated. captivated. I don't even remember how I found it, how it came to me. Maybe you guys sent it to me. I don't know. I sent it out to everybody that I knew, not knowing if I was to do that or not. I just did it. I just did it. And then on the next day at church before service began, I just said, play it. I want everybody to see this. And I tell you, we got flooded with comments from people across the United States. What a work this is. Can you guys tell us, take us back into the creativity of it, how you guys came about doing this, because what a gospel presentation. And here's what's awesome too about it. It's not only a gospel presentation, it's actually a word of discipleship to believers who think they have just fallen too far away and God cannot bring them back. So can you guys just go off on this? Because I just want to hear from you. Our audience wants to hear from you. What a great work this is. Thank you. Well, first of all, thank you for having us on. It's such an honor to be on this with you, Pastor. And gosh, it's been quite a journey for both Jeremy and I. We started this journey about six years ago, and I think around September 2019, right before COVID. So this is sort of our COVID project while we were all in lockdown that we worked a lot on. And so we, Jeremy and I, we had a desire to use our gifts for the Lord and had an opportunity to do that with this film, to tell a story about unmerited grace and a kind of love that is, you know, forever, a forever kind of love. And so we desired to, you know, set off on that journey And we, this film was actually made by 200 volunteers, everyone in their free time. And so no one got paid. We did this in our nights, our weekends, holidays. And after six years, you know, that's a long time to do that, to make a 12 minute short film. But so finally being at this point now where we're able to unveil it and share it with the world, we're just, we couldn't be more excited. So. Wow. Amazing. Yeah, I just wanted to say the same. It's an honor to get to speak with you today. And thanks for having us on. I'm Jeremy, by the way. I don't know if our names are going to be at the bottoms, but just letting you know. And so, yeah, it's just, it's such a treat to get to start sharing about this film. Nathan and I, when we started on it, I think it was that slow reveal that God would kind of go, hey guys, by the way, you could do this with this short. Oh, and you could do this with this. And it was just this continual, just sort of standing back in awe at what the Lord was doing in our lives personally. And then also just along the way on the making of this film. And I just wanted to say just kind of how briefly how we got started. Nathan and I, we've been pals for years. We've worked together on many projects, as you've heard. And so we kind of had this one lunch one day where I had just had my fourth child, our little guy, Rhett, who's now six. Lo and behold, six years. And Nathan was like, he's been working on a tree idea based on the Three Trees storybook, if you've heard of that picture. Great. And he basically said, Jeremy, what if you helped me direct this film? What if we worked on it together? And do your thing. I'm a story guy. He's an animator. Between the two of us, we could probably make something. And so I went off for a couple weeks and kind of did the thing that I'm used to doing, which is you take an idea and you pull it apart. And it's like a car. You pull the pieces apart. And then you look at everything. And you kind of know how to put it back together. but you just want to see is there things that maybe we don't need or maybe we need to add to get this car really, really moving. So anyways, that's what I did in that process. I came across this image of a spoiler alert. If you haven't seen the film, the there's a tree that had fallen across the divide and it was a big giant redwood tree and there's a waterfall behind it. And I I saw that image and a little bit of background is I had for years been encouraged to be more outspoken with my faith, to share it in a visual way is always the goal that we do in story. We always try to tell a story visually. And I saw that image and it was like a lightning bolt moment where it was like, okay, that's the story. I saw, I had been, so just to show you a little wood carving, this is, let me get it adjusted in the frame. This is this bear that I had been carving back in 2018, 2019, I made a bunch of these, reproduced them and sold them. And so I was deep in bear country at the time. And I thought, okay, if there's a tree that's fallen across a divide, that could represent what Christ did for us. It's kind of the classic Bible tract image of God on one side, man on the other, a divide, and there's a cross in between that is the bridge to safety. And I thought, okay, well, what would the character be that, you know, that could be running across this fallen tree? And I was like, oh, what about a bear? So I came back to Nathan, and I pitched him a sort of a fixed up version of the story that he'd been working on. And he's like, oh, that's nice. You know, I said, but I have one more thing that I got to, I just want to show you this. No hard feelings. I just want to, you know. And so I showed him the second idea and we got to i got to that image and nathan goes stop he's like just hold on a second this is crazy nathan you want to take over well what was funny was that um i had just drawn that same image and so this was sort of a because there was i had a co-worker and was just sharing the gospel with them and they had asked why the cross and so i was like well let me draw it why and you know, here's the God, man, the sin that divides us, and then that bridge that crosses, and you see that it reveals the cross, and he was like, oh, whoa, oh, okay, you know, and I had a great conversation, like, oh, yeah, hang on to that, because, you know, the enemy will try to snatch that away, and tell him the parable of the four soils, and so, you know, and gave him a Bible, and so it was just, it was a cool moment, but what Jeremy didn't mention was during that time when I had invited him in on that, I had, you know, it started as an adaptation, but then it had evolved to one tree. And it was kind of inverse where the tree had something to learn as opposed to a bear. And, and so, and there was, there was elements, spiritual elements, and I was wrestling through a couple things. And it may sound silly to some, but, you know, should we have verses on fantasy? Should we show Christ? You know, things like that, that are maybe for some people not, they're not convicted or by, but for me, I just, I hadn't thought about that or the responsibility of that before. And so I was really going through that and just, I didn't want to bring any disrepute upon the name of our Lord or, you know, the scripture or whatever. And so I mean, I was really distraught about this and it was right around the time I was inviting Jeremy and I had prayed. I said, Lord, even if you give Jeremy a completely different idea. Just make that plain to me. I don't have to be the guy. I don't have to have that spark of the idea. And so Jeremy went off, did his thing, but that's what I was praying while he was going away. And then in that same little two-week period, I had that witnessing opportunity where I drew that thing. So now let's fast forward to that moment. Jeremy pitches this thing. I see that drawing. I'm like, I just drew that thing and it was sitting on my desk. And he goes, I know about it. I was like, wait, what? I guess I was like, come on, let's come in. I want to show you the drawing. And he goes, I saw it. And he goes, what do you mean you saw it? And so if you want to take over again. No, no, I just, I want to make sure it's like, yeah, I had gone down the day before to just talk to you about something, you know, I don't know. And I was like, or maybe like, hey, I'm going to pitch you the stuff tomorrow or whatever. And I saw that on his desk and I just, I was like, this is crazy. And one of his, one of his friends was in the office there with, and I was like, I was like, Ryan, this is crazy. I just drew this drawing and it's, it's now it's here in front of me. And so it was in that moment that, you know, as a showman, as a storyteller, I waited for my moment. Cause I was like, okay, I think, I think I got him. I think I can, I think I could show him this drawing and maybe he'll react. Sure enough, it was God really, honestly, like it was the clarification that we both needed to go, okay, go, go do this crazy thing. And it kind of, there was no turning back at that point because like, I think when God asks you to do something, I truly believe that he set it on our hearts to do this No doubt So that yeah so that the story There you go Yeah it was a huge answer to prayer for me too you know it was it felt like there was permission to go and do this thing and felt like the lord's hand was behind it and i mean we we always call him we don't have an executive producer title on there because we always give credit to the lord he's our executive producer and has always been leading the project and providing for the project and you know we've We were very prayerful over the project. And so it was just so amazing to have that be the beginning of the project. And we just set sail off that. And both Jeremy and I then started to build off of the, you know, the foundation that Jeremy had given and brought in other components, the prodigal son thing. And, yeah, and then got to where we are today. It's so amazing. And, you know, it's great. One of you mentioned earlier, spoiler alert. We don't have to worry about spoiler alerts with this because I've watched it five or six times and every single time it has drawn me deeper into some of the things that you guys have tucked away knowingly or unknowingly as treasures for the believer. this is something that it's not like, and I'm not putting down any other illustration, but you know, I remember way, way back before you guys were probably born, I think Pixar started out with an old man playing chess in the park. And that was, you know, that was pretty, it was awesome. We all loved it, but it was pretty simple. There was no, you know, there wasn't anything where I needed to watch it again and again and again, other than it was cute. this, what you've done, this is not only beautiful, but there's that mystique of the animation that you use. It's almost kind of, oh, I'm not an artist, but it's almost kind of like paper cuttings or like you said, the wood carvings. But there is, I mean, I noticed that, uh-oh, When the crows showed up, oh, my heart went, oh, birds, not good. Something's going to go wrong. And so I got anxious. And then you see the little guy, the bear being lured away. And then he comes to his, the prodigal son, you know, pot of gold, so to speak. An abandoned campsite with a bunch of trash. And he thinks he's just inherited, you know, the lottery. And it's just so deep. And so my question to you guys is, for those who are now going to watch it, they're seeing this broadcast, they're going to go watch it. Take us behind the scenes. Who is this little bear? And what about the tree? Expressions. Please talk to me about the expressions, the eyes, the emotions. Talk to me about that. Take me behind into your heart as to what these little things represent. Sure. Yeah. Jeremy, want me to take that? Yeah, go for it. Cool. So Jeremy is an incredible wood carver. You've seen his stuff. And so early on, you know, we I mean, there was already trees and wood, of course, and he's a wood carver. And so that seemed like a pretty easy putting it together. But you don't want to just do a cool aesthetic style for no narrative reason. Right. You want the visual style of any film to kind of grow out of the narrative and the storytelling. So it's one thing to have a cool idea, but you really want it to resonate also with on the character level. And that's what we tried to do with Forever Green. So, you know, we wanted it to make it feel like in this sort of Genesis one kind of way where, you know, God making man in his own image. We wanted to have it look like the tree, the bear could have been carved from the tree so that when they're together in frame, they just they go together. And that whole side is sort of that they're on is sort of this handcrafted world and very stylized. stylized but you know when the bear then goes prodigal and is sitting in the materials that is vacuum form plastics and um you know steel wool and all these other man-made materials um he uh it will look there will be a juxtaposition and with that antithetical material that it will feel subliminally wrong like you you don't want the bear to be sitting in that pile of trash you want to be sitting in the wooden loving arms of that benevolent tree and so I think that was very intentional and and we even did a little uh stop motion nod uh so that's sort of the animation technique that both Jeremy and I we love stop motion animation uh studios like Aardman or Rankin Bass those old Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer uh special Christmas specials that you remember um they had a kind of a nostalgic um look to them and uh we were very much inspired by that and and so but in cg since this wasn't stop motion um you know really what we wanted to do is if we had all the time in the world was to have jeremy carve a unique wood carving for every frame of animation but that would have taken forever it would have taken yeah 100 years so yeah so we use the power of technology and the computers and we had an incredible team that helped us build a stop-motion-like texture system that helped it make it look like it was stop-motion. And really what's cool about that is that it was... They're the only characters that oscillate like that and have that look like it's a unique wood carving for every frame of animation. And it almost serves as a heartbeat for those characters. And it serves many purposes, but they're the only two characters that do that. and when the tree is in the area that we call Death Valley after sacrificing himself you really feel that the tree after kind of being trained the whole short up until that point that that is kind of the life heartbeat of the character and then it being completely still next to this very slow oscillating texture of the bear hopefully that will hit harder visually And so we're always as filmmakers looking for those opportunities to say something specific with our animation, with our lighting, with our effects and the sound design. every part of the film um it you know the those 200 volunteers you can't you know highlight them enough that they brought their masterful craft to the table to to to like a beautiful mosaic everyone putting their piece of the tile to create kind of the the big frame of the the film yeah and i i want to jump in too and and you had mentioned this specifically and i'm so glad you noticed all those details because i mean for all of us that worked on it so hard and again each one of those 200 people some of them would work on just the crow or they'd work on just the texture of the crow or the animation of the crow so knowing that it communicated and that it it was it was the effects of the crow they had some dust particles and so i wanted to talk about this for a second because i think this is we geek out about this um as as animators but uh with those crows there's a fun little story of again just how you you get stuck on an idea and you just you it's like what what is that solution going to be and it was a prayerful moment I literally was like Lord just give give us the answer what should these crows be made of and we we knew they were going to be the tempters they were going to be this this alluring figure you know that that that lets the audience know that that's where he's heading they can actually fly over to the other side, a good friend of mine, Don Doherty, is actually the one who came up with, he's like, you should have it be crows. So there's just like all these people adding these little things in, and we just go, oh my goodness, that's it. Well, I'm sitting around a campfire. We had gone on a family road trip to Yellowstone, and I'm looking at all these rocks and different things around. I'm like, okay, maybe this black rock, or this could be the texture of this crow. It could be organic thing you know and and then uh i i go down to the camp fire the next morning after just really thinking about this a lot and i look in the fire and there's a burnt piece of wood and i pick it up and i just kind of rotate it in the glistening you know the glisten from the sun and it has that sort of multi-color even that that oily wing of a of a crow has and i just i flipped out i i sent nathan a quick video of it and i'm like dude we got the crow and so and it works thematically that it's this it's this character that has been over there it's been messing around and stuff that it shouldn't be and that trash is not where they're supposed to be and uh and that they're sort of a representation of what you could you could become if you let yourself get burned by the fire and so it just it was this just epiphany moment you know again like it felt like oh that's a gift thank you thank you lord i love it yeah really cool i love it you guys one of the scenes i don't know if people picked up on it but it just grabbed my heart which is why i do believe this this one scene i'm going to bring up in in the short time of the of the film that was shown to our church so we showed it at all three services um and so you're looking at roughly 2,500 to 3,000 people per service, as soon as it came on, there was silence. And how an animation can put smiles, we saw smiles, we heard laughter, we heard a gasp. It was remarkable what it was doing to, at least like a beta test, you're talking about thousands of people in a matter of a few hours seeing this thing. And I almost wish we could have had like a, you know, a response by the audience type of poll. It was off the charts amazing. And so, but this is one of the things that the first sight of it, the first time I saw it, grabbed me and it moved me to emotion. And it was this, the tenderness, the tenderness, and yet the sovereignty of God where the bear is enjoying creation, the tree is looking down at him, kind of parenting him, and the porcupine goes by. And the bear is curious about the porcupine. And you would think that the tree would intervene before he ever got near the porcupine. But the tree willingly turns instead of rescuing him from this pain. You could see the tree say, I'm going to go through this pain with you. I'm not going to stop you because you've got to learn from it. And as soon as you get that needle in your nose, I'm going to be here to comfort you. But man, that ministered to me about the heart of our God. But sometimes we've got our minds set on things that we're not going to let it go. And the Lord will say, all right, if that's what you want to do, let's see how this turns out. You're going to learn from this. And he, of course, he's crying. He's got that one needle sticking out of his nose. And there's the compassion of God who pulls it out of his nose. And it was just so moving for me about the character of God that just blew my mind. Yeah, those kinds of things. I don know how you guys in fact I told our staff I said I don know how these guys packed so much biblical truth in such an attractive way that no one I don care who you are I don care what your worldview is I don care if you an atheist, you cannot see this film without relating to it because everybody's the bear. Well, I want to jump on that because, so that is tremendous. I love that you pointed to that moment because uh that's one of our that we just enjoyed that so much making that that moment and everyone involved but we have actually had multiple people uh and these are you know these are these are people that have completely different ways of probably thinking about things we don't know we don't know where everyone's hearts at but we they actually come to us and say hey i want you to know that we need more of this kind of content, that I love this, but I'm an atheist. And like, you know, you can tell that there's this kind of moment of like, they have to explain that to us to say, I love what you are all doing. This needs to exist. And what a confirming thing that that has been. And it's been multiple times, Nathan, that we have had, you know, people have been speaking into it that way. And I also just wanted to say that first and foremost, because, you know, when you spend so much time on something, it needs to be worth it. It needs that, you know, for you to invest your personal time like this and to sacrifice your time. But we knew that our walk with God, what Jesus did for us, taking our place and paying our fine the way that he did, that there's each of each of us had a personal story of that journey where we we were that knucklehead bear and we went away. We disregarded even for the smallest of things, even for a bag of chips, like everyone can know what a bag of chips is. And that's why it was just like it was such a enjoyable thing when you found these sort of this imagery that could kind of be something to bring people together and go, oh, I know exactly what that is. I have that. Because what you're saying is exactly right. We are all that bear. And, you know, Nathan and I, it was our personal journey to walk people through a beat by beat version of when you fall away and you realize that you get to the end of yourself and you say, there's nothing else that I can do. And so here's this bear on the edge of that cliff and he's still holding on. He's still holding on to his precious, you know, things. And he looks across the way and now he's desperate, right? And he goes, all right, I'm going to make the choice and I'm going to, I, and, but it's only because of, it's only because of the tree's generosity falling across, blowing the smoke away so that he can take a breath. he looks up and only because the flame gets on the the tree the flame he took upon himself the flame and so now not only has he uprooted himself there's no way back but he's taken on the flame and it's in that moment that the animator uh this this wonderful wonderful uh guy brendan gottlieb animated this shot which it's it's him looking up and sort of having this moment of like oh my goodness, this is what I've done. And he looks down at his trash and he tosses it, he tosses it away. And, um, and that is the, that is the beat by beat version of how you truly get saved. You, you don't save yourself. There's nothing we can do that. It's, it is God reaching to us and we have to let go of our sin, reach up and be saved. Yeah. I just want to stick in there at this moment with what you, because I'm afraid I'll forget. Jeremy, what you just said, another captivating moment for me is I was looking at the face of the tree when all of this processing was going on with the little bear. And when the bear gets on the tree's, let's say belly, right, on his belly, and the cost where the scripture says that Jesus, for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising its shame, offering himself, sacrificing himself, that the face on the tree has got, I don't even know how to say it. I lack the English. The eyes are full of compassion and yet sacrifice. And there is a type of a smile on that part of the bark of its mouth, where it is saying, clearly it is saying, because this has happened, this is what I'm doing for you. It's costing my life, but I'm so happy to do that so that you can carry on your life. And basically, the thought was, do this in remembrance of me. because at the end, I see the bear living his life in the offspring of the tree, doing this in remembrance of the sacrifice. And it was just so, you know what? I'm not a prophet, but I got to tell you, I've spent years in Russia witnessing evangelism in Europe. And we used to do, of course, skits that were beyond language. So we would act out things to communicate the gospel. And I just believe that this film is going to go so international for ministries to use because you guys so perfectly articulated beyond the gospel. The gospel, restoration, commitment, discipleship, love, sacrifice, sovereignty, choice matters. there's an evil world that's on fire but there's a way to live again I just believe I mean I'm telling you right now if we were heading out right now to anywhere in the world with a mission team I would be asking you guys can we take the film and show it to the streets of Paris or Moscow because I'm telling you it is going to be a spiritual home run even if somebody's deaf they don't even have to be able to hear to get the gospel it is truly remarkable I want everybody, listen team, everybody, you've got to watch this time and time again and get it out into the eyes and the ears of everybody you know. So tell me, I'm curious, what's behind the porcupines? Is there anything I've missed about the porcupines? I mean, that's just incredibly cute. They're cute and adorable. What can you miss? They're cute and adorable. They're perfect. Yeah, I did want to circle back to something you said, Pastor, there, is that it was so very much intentional. Jeremy and I, I mean, we really fought long and hard about what the, again, this isn't the gospel, but it is a picture of that unmerited grace, right, of what Christ did for us. So there's a Christ likeness. And so, but we, even though, even that, that being the case, we did think about the theological ramifications of what a visual would convey, right? If the bear climbed up, you know, the tree on his own, it could be construed as works righteousness, for example, right? And so if you, and if the tree didn't push him, you know, like the running across, you know, it's, there's a sanctification kind of piece of that, you know, that's like, it's not all of us right it's us and the lord working together after you are saved and justified and and so there's an element of you even see the tree that gives him a shove like it's not like it's even at the very end right before he makes a jump he's not going to make it and you can sort of see the animator added a little flick to the the trunk that actually helped him get up there so all these things are very much intentional where we could say um this act was all the tree not the bear. And that's to parallel, you know, the allegory of it's all the Lord that does the work and it's not us. So anyways, just, I mean, I think you're, you're right. And we're so happy that you picked up on all that because it was things that were very much intentional and trying to make sure, because when you, when you have a visual, there's a lot of responsibility and making sure you're saying the correct thing that you want to say. And then to be able to layer in all the other you know things like discipleship and everything else um so hopefully follow suit as well but um so we're just so i just want to make a quick comment on that and just how um happy i am to hear that so there's one little quick one little quick thing that that we've experienced just now that the film is out there and getting seen so we're getting lots of wonderful comments and and and um they're coming from all different angles but one of the ones that that i particularly and nathan and i particularly enjoying seeing is ones where where people are watching it they're sticking through all the way to the end and then they write their review and they say they say that bear did not deserve that that bear does not deserve that that bear does and they keep it's like the same comment and and i it's just like it's so encouraging because that is why we made the film was to if there's any perfect tee up to a conversation it's that it's saying yep you're right you are right we don't deserve that uh and let me let's talk about that you know i know i don't deserve that like i'm a i'm the chief of sinners you know um and let me tell you about my experience and it's just like to me if if this short could help as you're talking about getting getting out into the world, if it could just help Christians in general, just be more open with their faith and sharing their faith, that would be amazing. But we also know that it can also communicate and baffle people that watch it. They don't understand like how that does that's undeserved. And then again, maybe someone will be able to come alongside them and say, yeah, well, let's talk about that. You know, so it's just really encouraging. So yeah. To all that, I would say this. What you guys have done is truly anointed and inspired by the Lord. There's many evidences to this, but one of them is that you see a presentation of truth delivered for a child, profound enough to cause a crowd of thousands to break a tear or laugh or gasp. And you guys know that in the making of movies or anything like that, you're going to target an audience. We're going to target this audience. This transcends that, and only the Lord can do that because you've got an old man, and you've got a little kid getting it that is just absolutely so powerful. And one of the things that, and I think you alluded to this earlier, but I just want to make sure you talked about that it's not of works. He made the sacrifice. Did I read this right? That at the part where the tree decides, I'm going to lay down my life. am i reading it right when you see him kind of like i gotta get myself out of this earth is that true is that is that what was going yeah he's trying to uproot himself yeah uproot himself yeah just so powerful yeah well let me just uh respond quickly to the thing you just said which was i mean well we this is loosely based off the prodigal son story as we mentioned before but But you know the the whole this resonates with everyone thing i mean everyone is either um a parent or is a child of a parent right and so everyone and so there was a universality and jesus he was is the master storyteller and so i mean he knew what he was doing and so it's you know in that culture you know what what that meant to ask for an early inheritance and and to then go and squander that I mean people haven't changed since you know 2,000 years ago I mean there's still selfishness there's still evil in the world there's still people who hate one another and so I think everyone can resonate or take something away from it because there's a universal as you said there's universal truths that are just embedded in life that God has given us, whether it's familial or spiritual or environmental or whatever. There are so many different layers, I think, to this. Our desire was always from the beginning to have this be a feast that everyone can enjoy, that it can resonate with everyone, but then can also have great deep conversations afterwards, as Jeremy said. So yeah, I just wanted to point at, you know, Jesus, the master storyteller. And I think that's a good part in why this resonates across the board, you know? Well, and I have to jump on that real quick. And it was so it was just encouraging to us, again, to go to all of these friends that we've worked with for years at Disney. And even there There was folks outside of Disney that worked on this with us. And it was just this thing of like, you know, we had a chance to share. But say, we understand that we all don't have the same, you know, we don't come from the same places, you know, in our spiritual walks or in our whatever. But it was just really cool to see everyone coming together and saying we all agree on this is an important thing to say. and that we're willing to put our free time into this thing, which was just, again, it was, we just can't love up on our crew enough and thank them for all that they gave to help bring this thing to life. So it really, it's all in them. So, so good. You know, I think the word disarming would be a good word. That this delivery of truth, you cannot find fault with it. Think about it. What would somebody possibly have angst with this presentation? And then disarming. It's almost as though you could show it. One of you guys mentioned how hateful the world is. It's almost like, gosh, can I show you this before you go off and do your hatred? Watch this. It's so disarming. I mean, who's going to walk away from this beautifully presented? you know just call it an animated cartoon for the most basic way is what do i want to watch that for just just give it 15 or 12 minutes whatever the length of it is just watch this it's so disarming it's like who can find fault with this it's just ah it's it's just so good and i think yeah i think that's the power of storytelling though right i think yes um stories have a way of conveying deep survival information as brian mcdonald would say i think that's a it's a really neat thing um uh just to be able to tell a story to have someone get sucked in and then again without feeling too preachy or anything like that but you're able to um entertain but then also have a pov and i mean again that's exactly what the prophet nathan did to david yes right which was you know he's confronting him in the cinema with Bathsheba and he's telling him a little stamp story about you know this guy stole this little lamb and you know Dave's like he's into the story and he's like that man must pay and he's like that man is you right there's something about story that it's so disarming especially when you're invested in it and that layer that veneer of storytelling sometimes can help you to see like David was able to see the truth about yourself. And I think that's always, I think what any filmmaker would try to convey is that message that's underneath. But again, done in an artful, non-preachy sort of entertaining way that, and when you do that, it will always come across as truthful and sincere. And I think people can pick up on that and and there's one last thing after that is the pine cone that you know there's just truth in our in nature in our world you know as we understand everything around us so a pine cone for those giant sakoya redwoods uh it needs fire it needs heat for it to break open for the seals to get undone and for it to replant and and there was just something that again it's like all those little things those little details there's one last thing i was going to share is uh joe sutfin who's this amazing illustrator a friend of ours that worked on the film um he he watched the very first pass of this and we used to not have the tree uh he the tree regrew but it was the it was the bear planting the tree and you know basically just saying oh i'm going to plant many trees and the and the tree never really had, it was just a tree. And what was so cool is Joe goes, and the bear used to look over the edge and the tree was just gone. He fell away and he never got a moment. And Joe goes, guys, I think Christ would be smiling back at us. I think that he would be happy. He would be happy to take this upon himself. And you pointed this at this earlier, Pastor, but it was just like this This great, again, everyone adding these little details to help you feel all the right things that Nathan was, you know, you're just talking about there. It's all that stuff that adds up, you know. So good. You guys have produced, if I might be so bold, you guys have produced, created a modern day parable. The word parabolic. Jesus obviously spoke in parables. What a lot of people don't realize is that the Jewish scholars will tell you that the Hebrew form of bringing a message that was taught by a rabbi would be that message or that doctrine given. It could have been an hour or two hour long message, but it's always ended with a parable, which causes all of the truth and the doctrine that was preceding the moment of the parable, which is the bow on top to make it technicolor. So notice when it says Jesus sat down and taught them saying, notice most of Jesus's teaching is wrapped up in a parable. And that parable is the postmark of a tremendous message. So what you guys have done, you've taken the reality of a tremendous message. And you, in the modern day technology to modern day eyes, you have so perfectly honored the very nature of Jesus' teachings of parabolic delivery. To para, para means to be alongside and balik is to cast, to cast alongside truth and let the receiver decide on what to do. That's why when a parable is given, some receive and some don't. The parable actually judges the listener. God doesn't even judge the listener. They choose to accept his very, very graphic truth or reject it. And it's a remarkable thing because God invented parabolic teaching. And you and I first hear about that in Genesis 1-1 where in the beginning God created. And so you guys have honored the Lord. You've honored biblical doctrine. Your creativity is so Christ-like and like you said, but not preachy. And I don't think Jesus is preachy. It's just beautiful. You guys, I can't, with the few seconds I have left, what can you tell us? What's next? I'm sure everybody's, I'm dying to find out, hey, what are you going to do in the next six years? This is amazing. We have to have more. Well, I'll just jump in. You know, again, as we walk by faith, as we take those steps, we're just asking the Lord to keep directing our steps. We've met so many wonderful people, including yourself, throughout all this process. And it really feels like I think God has said it on our hearts that that it'd be great to make more content like this, you know, that that just tells things that are true, that that that that people could come around and enjoy together. Whatever walk of life you're from. Those are the things that I think are on Nathan and I. That's on our hearts. We've through these six years, we've had a lot of conversations about what could be next, what could be next. And we're just really enjoying this moment right now. I keep saying like it's like popping the popcorn, sitting back and just enjoying watching the Lord work this out. And I think that he'll bring the right people along. Yeah. Again, you know, just see what he has. What he has for us is really exciting. So, yeah, I will say the Bible is a big book and there's a lot of amazing truth. And this is just one story of many, you know. And so I think that that excites us. And, you know, Lord willing, there'll be other opportunities. So, yeah. So good. Jeremy Spears and Nathaniel Englehart, you guys have just opened my eyes. And, you know, Jesus said in Matthew 11, for us to enter the kingdom of heaven, we have to become like children. And that's exactly what he meant. Not childish, childlike. And you guys have taken us there in this remarkable work. I'm encouraging everybody to click on or to tap on what you see provided for you to watch it for yourself. But it's been an incredible joy. Look forward to seeing what's coming forth from you guys and very, very proud of you. And anything that we can do to help you along the way. I don't think you need our help, but if you want somebody to just jump up and down and shout about how great it is, here I am. You know, send me. Well, we do. We need prayer. We need prayer. We said that this film has been powered by prayer, and we would like that to continue. So anyone watching it can pray for the project and that the Lord's will will be done, and that it would get out there, and it would spark many great conversations. And that is the prayer request. And I would say, my hope, too, and I know Nathan, is we would hope that people would hear, again, the things that we've talked about on this hour together, hopefully you hear the story of how this film, how it was orchestrated, not by us, you know, we're just tools here. But it's just, I hope you're inspired. And I hope you go, hey, there's something that whatever you whatever you do for a living that you'll go, there's something more that I could do for the Lord, you know, and so I really hope that that it just sparks good conversation. Please help us again, yes, by prayer, but share the film, share the story. Now that you've heard it, you know, share it out there and just hopefully you're encouraged as we are, um, to see the reactions that everyone's having. So thank you so much. Amazing. Jeremy and Nathan, thank you so much. God bless you guys. Thanks for taking the time. Thank you for having us again. You bet. Thank you. This Jack Kibbs podcast, as well as all the broadcast outreach opportunities are listener supported. Will you consider partnering with us through a special gift? Go to jackhibbs.com to learn more and stay connected.