‘Widow’s Bay’ Episodes 1-3: The Island Wakes Up

Hello, welcome back to the PressVH TV podcast. I'm Jordan Robinson. I am Rob Mahoney. And we're here not to cover the top secret episode of the bear that just dropped mere, I don't know, moments ago on Hulu. What did anyone tell us? That's what its secrets are for. I guess. We're here to cover Widow's Bay episodes one through three. We asked y'all answered, you wanted us to cover Widow's Bay. We were, of course, covering Euphoria all month. We were like, what else should we be watching? Yeah. And Widow's Bay is just a fun show, a comedy horror show if you haven't seen it on good old Apple. And we're going to be checking in sporadically, I will say. That's what I want to commit to. That's the plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I tell you and our listeners a secret, Joe? Even if they hadn't emailed us in spades and they did, I think I would have demanded that we cover the show in some form. After watching a couple of episodes, you preempted my demand with your demand. So we like to give people the illusion of power, right? Like this is a democracy, but let's be real about it. We want to go to Widow's Bay. Rob, I'm so excited that when I texted you last week, you're like, but what if we record tomorrow? I was like, let's calm down. Supposing, frankly, irresponsible recording schedules, but the show has me very jazzed. I'm really loving it so far. So spoilers, I guess, up through episode three, if you guys haven't watched up through episode three, that's what we're going to be talking about. We're kind of, you know, it's a 30-minute plus comedy horror show. It's not necessarily our usual Prestige TV fare. So there isn't, I don't know, as much thematic density or something like that as some of the other shows we've covered. So we're going to do some of our, what we do sometimes on these little like binge drop check-ins is we're going to have some categories that we're going to go through towards the end, but we did want to have a general discussion. PrestigeTV at Spotify.com is how you can email us for this show. We're not creating a special email for the show yet. Those are the rules. But PrestigeTV at Spotify.com, if you have suggestions for categories, we should do. I would love to hear those. Because I feel like our listeners are really, really good at those. So if you guys have categories that we should check in on the future, check-ins for Widow's Bay, let us know. When did you, Rob Mahoney, other than me texting you being like, I regret to inform you Widow's Bay slaps, when did you know you were in on Widow's Bay? I mean, the opening of episode one is like appropriately spooky. And frankly, like doing horror on TV is such a tough enterprise. It's so difficult, I think, just to get people in their living rooms to feel it, to feel the tension. And so I was on board with that, but I think it's when Tom gets to City Hall for the first time. And we start seeing the cast of characters who are working there. And it's like, oh, this is like on, like the pattern is like on a rhythm that I'm like really resonating with. And so even if the show turns out not to be spooky and scary in the ways I might like or that it's trying to be, it's at least going to be really funny. I do want to give our producer Kai Gray some credit because he's been on the Widow's Bay beat like, hey, did you guys see this trailer? Hey, what do you guys think of this show? So shout out, Kai. I will say, I feel like starring Matthew Reese is where they really got me. That's where they really got me. Co-starring Steven Root. Yeah. Oh my gosh. But this is from Kitty Dippold who worked on Parks and Recreation. You can really tell. And that's a compliment inside of this show, as you said, the City Hall, the people who work at City Hall are just like extremely fun characters. And like to, I don't know what your experience was, freeze frame Mahoney, but like all of the chalkboards in the background, just sort of like zooming in on what is on there. I didn't see anything unusual. It's all business. It's all street business. Repair the curb and like paint this and move the tree. Wifi was one of the agenda items. I think this is one of the strengths of the show, though, is like they play everything so straight for the most part. And I think it walks us really delicate balance between there's people at City Hall, there's all these townspeople. They are regularly saying insane shit about what happens in this town. Yes. Of course, we learn over the course of these three episodes, some of it's not so insane and seems like actually quite real and haunted. But like Tom, he's so clearly dismissive of it, but he doesn't stop to like dress everybody down. It's just like they say the crazy thing. We keep it moving. We're back to business. It's like it manages to be horror and comedy because it never really has jokes at the expense of the horror that much. Like it doesn't feel like a spoof for a parody. It just feels like a very funny horror show. And even when it gets like all right, walks right up to the edge, like I would say when Stephen Roots character, Wick is like explaining the lore of the Seahag and episode three, and he's like she comes into your bed and sits on your face. Yeah. Like that's a right. We'll be revisiting that. That's like right up the edge of like, you know, I think it's worth applying some of the lessons I feel like we learned when we did our hooked series, where we were looking at pilots versus other episodes that really get you into a show. And I would say for Widows Bay, the pilot is the hooked episode because this is one of the best pilots I've ever seen. And some of the tactics that are used here is we have a newcomer to this location in the New York Times writer, Arthur Wright. So we're explaining things to Arthur. We had to go to the historical society. You know, there's just like a lot to explain to him. We explained to him that cell phones don't work here. We don't have Wi-Fi, all this stuff and all of that. And this is the like rewatchables category I keep trying to make a thing, which is like a cell phone would ruin this movie. Like cell phones and Wi-Fi and on the and the connected nature of our society now would ruin the premise of it. If Tom could snap a photo of the Seahag and like text it to someone, that's, you know, do know her. You've seen this woman. Like that's that's a completely different thing. And so it deflates just the classic horror problem. Yeah. Like in addition, there's the TV issue and then there's the horror issue. And this is kind of resolving both in one fell swoop. So we have all of that. That's that's clever. And then there's the momentum of the first episode because Tom is in this like manic state all episode and he's just kind of like running from one location to the other frantically trying to like be a dad to his son, be a mayor to this town. Buddy hates the town. But then we kind of realized why he's there. And we can talk about that a bit. Trying to impress this writer. And so there's just so much energy inside of a lot of exposition, inside of just like some fun spooky fog, revenant stuff that is just like I was so deeply impressed by this pilot. I think I think it's so spot on, Joe. And like the point of view of having the New York Times writer parachute in and explain, have things explained to him is so helpful for us as an audience. I also think having Tom as an as an inherent skeptic. Yes. And us as an inherent skeptic. Yes. Like the first time we see Wic, it's like all it plays for comedy, but everything he's saying turns out to be true. Yeah. You know, by and large and so. Full kook, full kook territory. Full kook until he unfortunately is 100 percent right. And so. Is he more of a kook or more of a koot? Like what do you think? What's the what's the distinction? I don't know. Koot, I think probably implies like an old koot is like. I'm gonna be honest with you. I try to never say the word koot. Yeah, it's just too. We're just we're walking a line that I don't think is comfortable for anybody involved. It's sort of irresistibly rhymes with root and I'm sort of drawn to it. We can stick with kook. That's fine. Sorry, you were saying I interrupted you. Just that similarly, as we're introduced to the town, I mean, genuinely, who knows. But as we're introduced to the town and all its mysteries, we're also anchored in our own pessimism of like clearly all this stuff is fake. But then we're shown piece by piece by piece. Oh, wait, this fog is messed up. Oh, wait, it is going to turn this guy's eyes white and give him delirium and presumably impair his boner. It's tough to hear. Tough, tough for that guy. Shep, poor, poor Shep. Thirty seven year old Shep. That doesn't seem right. OK, so these are the facts that help explain why character like Tom is here. Character who seems to hate this place. Straight up. We found out he ran unopposed for the office of mayor. Are we too into it by this point? Like is your assumption the same as mine that Wick is the former mayor of the town? Oh, I don't know. Interesting. There's a lot of illusions to like Wick has been through a lot. Yeah. And when Tom and Wick start getting into it at first, there's the implication like, oh, this is a personal thing between them. And so I'm kind of wondering if Wick suffered some kind of tragedy, resigned or left as mayor and Tom then ran unopposed. Did you have a theory for a second that Wick might be his dad? No. OK. Does that even make sense? No. Well, it doesn't make sense when after we hear Wick tell the doorbell ditching story. Well, sure. But before that, I was just sort of like, this could be his dad. Like when people are estranged from their parents, they might call them by their first name and it might be. How old is Stephen Root? Oh, I don't know. But I'm willing to consider it. We can look at the right now. Hold on. Let's do a little real time fact checking. OK. Stephen Root, he's older, an older gentleman, he's 74. OK. I mean, Matthew is 51. OK. So I honestly spot on. But Stephen Root looking great for 74. Come on. Sprite. So Tom, we learned in the first episode, you know, this idea that if you're born on the island and you leave the island, you die. And even though Tom sort of brushes that off, we find out later that Evan has never left the island. Not even for Boston. Not even for Boston. So. So is he is Tom? Does Tom Field trapped on this island because he cannot? He is a single dad, a widower raising his son. Yep. Cannot leave the island because he cannot leave with his son. And so might as well try to turn the island into something. The next Cape Cod. The next Martha's Vineyard. The next Martha's Vineyard. The next Bar Harbor, perhaps. Oh, yeah, fancy. Ooh, you know, so like that seems to be the premise. And I love that as like we get these, you know, one would one might sit at home and say, why would this guy be on this island if he hates it so much? Or why would this guy be mayor if he hates it so much? And if he's like, this is the only way I could figure out how to improve my like life experience on this island if I'm trapped here because I love my son and I can't abandon him here and I can't risk taking him to shore. Because I don't know what's going to happen to him. Because and the key part is that that even some part of Tom believes that, right? And when it comes to Evan, he's not willing. Like it's like he's not willing to risk it. Not willing to risk it. But also we do learn that he came back to the island to take care of his sick father, right, who did it seem like by a lot of the lore and the mystery and the curse of the island. And so there's that like, what if my dad was a little bit right? I mean, there's just a lot of fathers and sons happening. Also, his wife died from complications from childbirth. But like, do we know that full story? I don't know. We certainly don't. A lot of stories, a lot of ghouls and creeps to come. So all of these are questions that are that are running around on the whole. You know, something that I thought was really interesting is like you watch the first episode, you're like, there's a lot of comedy here. There's some horror here, obviously. When Shep goes full revenant, it is a little scary. Yeah. But it's not until we're in the crawl space in episode two and there's a clown like bearing down upon us that I was like, oh, no, this is for real scary. They're doing real horror. These aren't fucking around hours. So what's your level of comfort with horror? Have we talked about this? I don't know that we really have. I think part of the reason we probably haven't talked about it is it's not like my go to genre. Is it yours? No, but I don't I'm not opposed to it in any way. I would say I usually get backdoored into it. Like I'm not particularly drawn to horror, but I love sci-fi. And so that gets you into like alien and the thing and stuff like that. And I'm not like seeking out horror, but I love suspense and I love a thriller. And so then you're into Halloween and stuff like that. And I think I need that kind of like side door appeal often with the horror movie, whether it's like, quote unquote, elevated horror or some theme or some idea or some actor I really love. This has a lot of that. It also has what I'm dubbing cottage horror, like a particular brand. I don't think is quite robust. We're adjacent to cabin horror for sure. This is not that. This is not purely in the woods or by the sea. It's kind of cozy. It's kind of quaint, but also a little horrific. OK, a little like, yeah, cozy, foggy. Yes. The one cop I could think of was and I have very different feelings watching these two things because this is what I'm about to say is nowhere near as funny as this show is. But men, did you see the movie? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just just that kind of like sweaters off on your own. It's chill in the air. It's the Lore horror. For sure. You know, it's like a little lovecraftian almost. Yeah, absolutely. I would say lovecraftian is in the mix here. The seahag here she is from the sea. But yeah, like it's where they come from. It's very. Like mythic folk horror. That's what that's the term I'm circling. And that's the term I think that got used a lot when men came out was this idea of folk horror. And so I am not a shoot. Like, I'm not, you know, horror itself is not going to get me to the theater. The first movie was a challenge for me. But in general, I don't I don't think I'm that squeamish in general. And, you know, I have a lot of people in my life who cannot handle horror at all. I don't love like torture or like saw or the hills have eyes and stuff like that. Like that's not for me. It's not like that's not the thrill or the chill that I'm seeking. You're not going to be on the martyrs rewatchables. No, it's not me. It's not me. But but I did spend a summer when I was in college, like a bunch of us did summer sessions. So we were there all summer and we watched like all of the 70s classic horror just every week we watched another one. And so it's like a fun project to be like, what's the omen about? What's the exorcist about? What's, you know, what's the shining about? Like just sort of knock it all out. And I would say that 70s horror is most apparently influential here. We've got Widow's Bay. The font is a very Stephen King adjacent font. And the person that I'm thinking about most when watching this is Mike Flanagan, who's done a lot of horror series for Netflix, done some great Stephen King adaptations. Dr. Sleep was a criminally underrated, like one of the best Stephen King adapters, I would say, is Mike Flanagan. And he did a show that I know I've talked to you about, which is Midnight Mass. And the reason Midnight Mass keeps coming up is that it is an island based story where something happens at this community. But the question of like, are the fairies running? Is the fog visible? We are trapped on this island when things go to shit. Yeah. The electricity is out. There's like one guy who can fix it. All of that stuff is so present in that story and so present here. And it is such a good framework. Absolutely. A horror setting to just be like, we're trapped here if something goes wrong. You know, I mean, it taps into so many elemental horror tropes in that way. Like all of it. Like you're really not that far from a summer camp horror movie when you're on a dead like an island that needs to be separated by water, where you need the fairies, where you need all these mechanisms. Like you just need those strictures a little bit to start putting us into a place where we actually feel as modern people with all of our modern devices, like genuinely backed into a corner. Yeah, I love that. Very Jurassic Park, you know, of course. You know, the boats aren't running. Someone turned the electricity on. The power's out. What are we going to do? Any other influences that you were thinking about when you were watching this? I mean, I think Jaws is a huge one. Like the Amity Island stuff is like right there. The structure of episode one in a lot of ways is Jaws, right? Someone shows up warning you like this terrible thing is coming or happening. But we couldn't possibly because we need, you know, the tourists to come to the beach. Like that is the fundamental tension of Jaws and the fundamental tension of this show. I think maybe the difference is like Widow's Bay is maybe even more desperate than Amity Island is. Like this is this is a town that needs saving. Right. And so there's like an existential threat beyond all the ghosts out there. Yeah, I think the the sort of log line that a lot of I saw floating around a lot is people are like, what if the mayor from Jaws like definitely knew about the shark, you know what he mean? And just sort of like kept the beaches. Yeah, exactly. Which I kind of think the mayor from Jaws also knew. He might have. Yeah. So the first episode very, very Jaws adjacent. Second episode very shining, right? We're in a haunted hotel of some kind. I think the New Year's Eve party noise especially is like invoking and shining. Seahag on the seahag front, any sort of specific inspo that you can think of? Maybe I'm just not fluent enough in seahag horror. Maybe you need to get up on brush up on your head. But you know what? The hag was refreshing because of it. I also love the way that it plays with our expectations. Like I really like the way that they put the haunted hotel and the seahag back to back because when Tim Balls, who's a great comedic actor, shows up as William in episode two, I was like, that's a ghost, right? Clearly a ghost. He shows up with a short sleeve white button. I'm like, that guy's from the 50s. Like that's a ghost, right? 50s or 60s. But then he says the thing about the cappuccino machine. So they were like, oh, but wait, is that not a ghost? And they played enough. I was like, but no, that's a ghost. You know, they played enough with your expectations there. But then you get to episode three and you're like, that's the seahag, man. Be careful. And he's like, right. And then he's like, I love the moment where he feels like he's figured it out and he doesn't at the dinner. Like, and he's just like, I gotta, I gotta go. And he doesn't like, he doesn't overplay it, but he's just sort of like, I'm with you audience. I too think this is suspicious. Yeah. And then it's not. And that's just like a really fun sort of, but I was also doing this mental calculus where I was like, they wouldn't do that to episodes in a row. So like maybe she's not the seahag. Maybe that's what they want you to think. That's that's the constant game of widows bay, it seems. I do think part of what I'm enjoying so much about these first three episodes is there is that every turn, every development, every new introduction of a potential scary thing, right? Or even just like on a line delivery level, there's always like one layer below. It's it's I'm sure there's some surface level stuff will bump into along the way. Like it's a long season. Things have to move, keep moving on their chains. But I think a lot about like Wic having contempt for Tom, not because of the doorbell ditching, but because he was too much of a coward to actually doorbell ditching. It's like as that line is being delivered, you are so much with Tom. Like, are you kidding me? That's like about this thing when he was a kid. Yeah. And it's like every element of the story has that where there's always like one thing to subvert, to challenge, to put you like on your back foot a little bit. As far as like even what these characters are, where it's like you're turning a joke into something real or you're turning something scary into a joke. And I think that's part of why the show can balance those so well. Yeah, I'll be curious to see how those tones are balanced throughout the rest of the season. These first three episodes are directed by Hiramurai, which is like an incredible get. Is there anything you want to say specifically about Hiramurai before we talk about some of the other directors this season? Only within the context of these three episodes, I want to say like, I think directing horror is such a specific skill set. And it's so clear that not everyone can do it. And it's so clear like the tension building and holding is I just think immensely challenging to do on television as we talked about up top. And so the fact that these, especially two and three, do have moments of like real genuine horror intention on the edge of your seat, kind of watching. Yeah. I'm just I'm blown away by that execution as much as anything. Are you an Atlanta guy? Like actually have not seen it all the way through. OK. So I mean, look, added to the list of blind spots, we got to do some catching up. I do think that like unusual balance of like comedy, right? The comedy tone where you're sort of like, should I be laughing right now? I'm not sure. And and all the other things that Atlanta had to offer that Hiramurai did such great work on. Ty West is also directing an episode this season and Andrew DeYoung, who are Flag Means Death, the chair company friendship. So like that's a that's a comedy guy. Andrew DeYoung, Ty West, a horror guy. The chair company is not a pure comedy. Hey, you're right. I don't watch a chair company, but like it may have more in common with this than you think. But like but more comedy than not like associated with our flag means death and like things that are thought of as as comedic. And then Ty West is like a horror, horror director. So like are those two episodes going to be more comedic and more horror adjacent or something like that? I don't know. I can't wait to find out. I'm really excited to find out anything else you want to say, sort of in a big picture way about the show. I mean, I guess like where are you on ghosts? Where are you on hags? Like are you a superstitious person in these respects at all? It's tough because I have a lot of friends who believe in ghosts and I I don't really, but I believe that I don't know. Wow, this is this is really holding your feet at the fire. It's tough. Well, it's like it's like when someone talks to you about their religion and you're like, I don't want to like like whenever they talk to me about I have a couple really close friends who are like, I can sense that someone died here or I can sense this. There are the other thing and it's not something I believe, but I'm never like that's bullshit. I'm always like, tell me what that feels like. You know what I mean? Like I just sort of like listen to your curious, your open minded. Yeah, but it's not something I've ever experienced nor and given my approach towards religion in general. Like I guess I'm kind of out on ghosts. Where are you on ghosts? I mean, I think we're all out on. No one is in on ghosts. But I guess what I'm wondering is like on, you know, if you're home alone at night and there's a creek on the other side of your place, is there any part of you that seemingly like Tom is like, even though I am a grounded, skeptical person, what if that isn't a creek in the floorboard? What if that isn't even someone breaking into my house? What if that is something supernatural? One time I was I was living in a place where the garage was sort of like underneath the apartments, right? And so I drove into the garage, the garage door closed. I was sitting in my car and there was like a windows on the garage door so I could see sitting in my car. I could see what was outside the window. And I saw a like diaphanous white floating figure and I like froze. And I was like, there I cannot in my brain anywhere and cocked an explanation for this that is not ghosts. Like, how is this anything but a ghost? And I literally was just frozen in my car for a while because like I didn't know what to do. And eventually I like mustered up the courage to run upstairs. The person I was living with at the time, I started like babbling to her about what I saw. And she was like, oh, to look like this. And she went and she got from her balcony this like long and she was a belly dancer. And she's like, it's my belly dancing veil that I was air drying. And I was like, oh, my God. In that moment, I did believe it goes because I could not. And my brain just could not figure out. Nothing has ever looked gauzier and ghostier in its life than that thing in that moment. Have you ever had a moment where you're like, maybe I've never had that moment. But I will say like, maybe this is the effect that horror movies do have on me. I'm not a scaredy cat. But after watching like rec for the first time or something like that, that's like truly unsettling. Yeah, I need like a decompression watch. Like otherwise, if I'm like looking at every dark corner, I'm like, every time I pan to look into a mirror, I fully expect to jump scare in my own reflection. It's like, I am impressionable in that way from this sort of media. But in life, I can't say I've ever sensed a ghost. There are there are things that I prefer to watch at home during the day. Yeah. That's that's sort of my level of, you know, if there was a horror movie that was extremely popular and people are like, you got to see hereditary. I'm like, great. Sure. I want to see it at home with the daylight streaming. See, that's what I thought when I watched it follows at home alone during the day, which is a horror movie that is almost exclusively at like during the day, creepy things following you around. I do wonder with Widow's Bay, are we ever going to get any spooky, scary stuff during daylight hours? It seems like it's more of a haunting thing at night right now. Interesting. I know we're going to go through like some of our favorite characters or whatever. But was there other than Matthew Reese and Steven Root, an actor that popped up here that you're like, oh, I love this actor. I'm so excited. This is a leading question. Yes. Do you want me to just give my answer? Let's just do it. Toby Huss, who's playing the priest. Yeah. I'm Reverend Bryce. I'm a huge Toby Huss fan. I don't know if they call themselves Hussies or not, but they should. They absolutely do. Toby Huss is so like such an incredible character actor guy. And when he showed up, I'm like, they got Huss. They got Huss to do Reverend Bryce and he's like 12th down the list of cast. Where do you know him from? I know him best from like he's like a long time. Like he worked on Beavis and Butthead, Adventures of Pete and Pete, but Haunt and Catch Fire is like. Gotcha. And I like he was he was actually the first time I ever interviewed a celebrity in person. Have I told you the story? Was that South by Southwest when Haunt and Catch Fire had its first season? And I did like a round table interview with Lee Pace, Mackenzie Davis and Toby Huss. That was the first time interviewing like actors in person. And but I was already like all in on Lee Pace and Lee Pace. The way that I like laughed in response to Lee Pace, is unfortunately forever on tape because I recorded that conversation. Do you listen back to it? So embarrassing to me. And I forever appreciate that Toby Huss was just like, I feel like really seeing me in that moment and just being like, it's OK. Whatever's happening to you right now, it's going to be OK. We need those spirit guides in these interview circumstances. So I feel like emotionally attached to him because he was just like really holding it down. That was 2014. That was a very good bonding experience for me. I'm glad you had that moment together. I too love Toby Huss, but for very different reasons. What's your Toby Huss says? I mean, for me, he will always be the whiz on Seinfeld. Are you familiar with this episode? Remind me. So Elaine starts dating this guy who has like this undeniable charm, like this glint in his eye that has this like power over her and she can't place like why it's happening or where it's coming from. It turns out it's because he is like the cartoonish mascot for like a furniture store called The Whiz because he's like creating magical prices or whatever. And so the slow realization over the course of this episode that he's not just this like dashing, interesting man, but also this cartoonish buffoon on TV. So great. And I think like he gets to play both sides of that here where he's both like the severe priest and the priest who's like making the Bible jokes and the Bible, Bible, blah, blah, blah. There's evil in these words and I'm going to walk off into the darkness. Like it's he's so good and so funny in so little screen time. I'm delighted that he's here. And this is like to take us back to sort of the park parks and rec influence. It just seems, you know, it seems like the kind of project that people who are quite funny want to be a part of, you know what I mean? And Toby Huss is not like the funniest guy that has ever existed. But like it's very funny in the show. But like, you know, Neil Casey's here, Neil Casey, SNL writer was in Katie Katie's Ghostbusters movie for better for worse, etc. Et cetera. Just like the people Tim Balls who shows up like all these like this is just like the right tier of comedic actor that I just like am so excited to see. And so and like and the whole crew that's at City Hall is just like incredibly good. And they get to play so fun and so broad. And I mean, it does feel like a parks and rec like citizens rogues gallery that's developing. The one exception being it's like Wick is a character who he is one of those stereotypes, but he's also like not so insane as he seems. I mean, I guess he's still insane. He's just also correct about the hauntings. Rosemary is also the one who has like some haggler and she's right about that too. So, you know, he should crawl into the crawl space all the way. Great suggestions for Rosemary. Before we get into our categories, we got an email. We got a lot of emails from people saying, please cover Wittows Bay. We love it. We will not be reading all of those emails out. But thank you so much for writing them. We got an email from a listener, Carolyn, who wanted to point out that Katie Katie Dippold is from New Jersey. Where Carolyn's from. And that was used as an inspo for this. This is an interview that Katie Dippold gave New Jersey monthly. Quote, there used to be a haunted house on the boardwalk in Long Branch. It was terrifying and I was way too young for it. I would be so scared, but I would be so excited and giddy. And that's actually a huge inspiration for the show I'm doing because I want to capture that feeling again where something is tense and terrifying, but then you still laugh at the end. And then Carolyn, our listener also sent in the URL weirdnj.com. Are you familiar with this? There is a website Weird NJ where it's just like your travel guide to New Jersey's local legends and best kept secrets. So it's just like, I guess the New Jersey devil would be like one of the links. Yes. Like all of the weird stuff, the X files, esque stuff that have ever happened in New Jersey are, you know, collected here on this website. So shout out weirdnj.com. If you have a weird New Jersey story that you would you've experienced listeners and would like to send it to us, please do. I would like to hear them. I would also love to hear those prestigedvsspotify.com. Yeah, I think slightly better than our, our maggot story collection from the pit. For half, but I gotta say, I enjoyed those two in their way. Yeah. I think there is something about places like New Jersey, though, that are like just normal and boring enough where they create this sort of legend. And places like this, two places like widows bay, where it's like just kind of a quiet seaside town that doesn't have a lot going for it. But then all of a sudden has this history of like cannibalism and all of these things in its past that can't ever go away because people keep drumming them up. Rob, it took them four whole days to turn to cannibalism. Like, let's calm down. How long would it take you? I simply would not eat another person. You're going to malibh me. I malibh you. All right, do you want to get to our categories? Let's do it. OK, first category, best bit of lore. There's a well in the woods. I love a dark well. There's a rusty hatch with a with a scary chair at the end of episode one. That one's real scary. Very losty to end with a literal hatch. Love that for me. What do you what do you want to shout out? Lore wise, I have some other options. I want to go comedy wise on the lore. I think one of the things that made me and laugh hardest in these three episodes is when I'm totally blank under name, but the woman who is doing the Historical Society tour. Specifically, I'm just talking about the witch trial being a great source of pride. We got him. We burned him. Jerry, Jerry, thank you. Play by Nancy LeHen. And I want to say I did do the zoom in and Jerry does get an extensive shout out in the New York Times article published. So I'm glad she's getting her. Thank you, thank you so much. This show feels made for you to pause and zoom in. It took me a long time. I watched these episodes through and then I rewatched them for this. And it took me I did a lot of pausing and scrutinizing of like lists and articles and like maps and book titles and whatever the case. There's so much great stuff in my like lost era. Now, Arthur's lead writing, I think we could have a conversation with him and his editor about that. The text is good. Everything that they read from the article in the car is like straight up there in the prop, but I think we can do better. You want you would have digit up a bit more. I mean, it's just a little bland. You don't think you get these many crowds coming to. I don't think so. But also, you know what the New York Times editors notoriously kind of stingy with this stuff. It's true. They don't want you to get too spicy about it. But yeah, like we're enormously proud of our witch trial work. Like we caught them. We burned them. It's like so good the way her delivery to. I will say the island is weak. Weak saying the island is waking up. Oh, yeah. Incredible. Again, lost. You are with us always. We get a boogeyman reference. We do. Excited to see that payoff, hopefully. That's OK. Very Patricia's 40 now. When that comes back in like episode three, when she's like, he was like an elderly woman. Was she 40? This woman does not forget Patricia. We will get to you. We will give you your flowers. 1846, the fog that stole souls. Yep. Great stuff. The shipwreck painting in the inn. I do love the shipwreck painting and the drowning child. The drowning child. The captain's suite, the innkeeper kicking the suitcase in because he refuses to cross the threshold. Then the later like payoff with the 10 seconds, 30 seconds. Ungrateful Hortense, Mr. Herald. Ugly Hortense. Should the bell toll, there are steps you must take. I love a tolling bell. I love a mysteriously tolling bell. The second we see that bell chained up, we're cooking with gas. Because you're like, oh, this is definitely Evan Shenanigans. Then you're like, uh-uh, not even Evan. Dusty ladder, chained bell. Yeah. Whatever like subplot and side quest that the priest is going on. I just, I think it's like a great runner undercutting a lot of the season. Yeah. I think you need it too, right? You need the comedic undercutting at times, but you also need just like the, we are slowly building the stakes of something increasingly scary happening beyond just your seahags. There's a well in the woods. I don't like the second he looked, do not lean over. And I feel like there was like eerie owing coming from the well. We need to do a public service announcement. If you find a dark well in the woods, do not under any circumstances lean over the well. I don't know how many times we have to say this. What if someone's holding your ankles for you while you do it? Like you do, like the buddy system. Only lean over a well if you're using the buddy system and someone has a firm grasp on your ankles while you're doing it. I would like to propose a trust exercise for you and I and Kai. Yeah. In which we all do this for each other. We go find an abandoned well out in the woods. Would you trust us to hold your ankles? I trust Kai. I don't know that I trust you. You know what? Honestly, fair. I can't even argue it. The video guy, is there a body bag on the shore in that video where the guy just like walks away? There's like a dark object on the shore. I mean, there's a lot happening in that video. We haven't mentioned twin peaks yet, but like very peaksy, very, very low. I would say more effectively the most. When people reach for David Lynch, I think they often end up in some other field entirely. This one, I think is getting the right notes. And then the clown killer of 51. Yeah. Our guy. And then also he's gotten a couple mentions, but Richard Warren, first reef prime in Lord Island Protector, his second wife, Sarah, who gets a lingering shot over the opening title in the third, that sort of statue of her, the historical society. I think statue is generous, mannequin perhaps. Paper mache construction. And then the headless Richard Warren statue out and about. I did, I do know that Hamish Linkletter is in this season. And I do think the portrait in the historical society of Richard Warren looks like one of my favorite actors, Hamish Linkletter, who is the star of Midnight Mask. So you're proposing perhaps a flashback or a ghost? We've gotten so many references to the founder that like I would not be surprised. There's got to be some lore there. And especially whatever is happening with the creepy chair that you cited underneath the restaurant. Like that's clearly something that's been there for a long time. It has been part of some kind of continuous town exercise or lore. Perhaps, but like the hatch itself looks, because it was the 1600s when the island was founded. The hatch looks more modern than the 1600s. Well, that strikes me as a semi-modern way to accommodate whatever is happening. I don't think it's like rocket science to deduce that this could perhaps be like a human sacrifice situation. Like you, it looks like an electric chair, but it's not. It's just straps. It's just kind of keeping you in place. They open the hatch, whatever thing comes out of the hatch, you know, cabin in the woods style and eats you. Maybe that was like, you know, a mid 50s kind of invention that like, okay, we're going to create the hatch. We got to get this. We got to put some doors on this thing. We got to get this under control. Yeah, this tunnel that is just an open gaping wound in the island. Let's put a hatch on it. So let's just like be reasonable. All right. Favorite city employee. There's really no argument for anybody else. It has to be Patricia, who I think is my favorite character on television right now. Is anyone doing it better than Patricia? I would die for Patricia. She's so good. So Cato Flynn, have you seen Cato Flynn in anything? I don't believe so. So the thing that I know her best friend is she was in this, uh, canceled Amazon show called My Lady Jane, um, where, uh, she played Princess Mary and she was so funny. She, like just this exact level of funny, like a woman who is absurd in many ways when she's like, oh, they left my poem out of the brochure. She's not like, okay. Like, um, yeah, did you show my painting? Like absurd in many ways, but also like, I mean, this is less true of My Lady Jane, but like I care about her and I'm rooting for her so much. She's so deep. Protect Patricia. If you wanted to create an effective cliffhanger, there's something bad happening at Patricia's Sunset Drinks. I'm on the hook. Like I need this next episode immediately. The voicemail that she left for, for talk. I'm at the event that you said you would be at. So good. She actually might bring a gun to work, but like Cato Flynn in this performance, like she's just the right amount of credulous. Yeah. Like she is also willing to buy or believe or talk through basically anything in a way that is just so fucking funny. And the fact that she's basically like the second most maybe competent person at city hall while believing in all these things, while wanting to tell you yet again about her boogeyman encounter, it's just like a perfect blend of a character. When Wick is talking about the shipwreck that occurred because an older man was in love with a teenage girl, she's like, are the older women dead in this scenario? Incredibly good. Her finding out that her biological age is 28. Yeah. Like what's going on with the biological ages of these Islanders? I have some questions. Who knows? Yeah. Patricia is an icon, but the whole crew, I mean, Rosemary, Dale is played by the Emmy winner, Jeff Hiller. Great energy. When he's describing the Islanders reaction to taxation, they're like, if you want this blood money, you'll have to come collect it yourself. That feels very Parks and Rec for sure. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And we got to shout out Ruth too. Like I mean, as far as an elderly assistant who does not know anyone's phone numbers, cannot read her own handwriting and wants to take a nap by 11 a.m., a fucking icon. It's the mornings that are tough, Rob. She really needs a ride. You know, and then the other, like Garrett at the lighthouse, like all the other people around here, it's just like, it's all great. It's an incredible cast. Yeah. Favorite obvious joke. I think the best obvious joke has to be the seahawk crawling into your bed and killing you by sitting on your face. Like that is, that's a God tier joke. Betwixt her thighs, your final sin. Yeah. I don't know how you could write a better premise for a horror comedy show than this. That you have to lock yourself in a chest for 72 hours to like resist the paralysis that's going to kill you because of the seahawk. It's just great. It's really good. It's funny because I'm the one who said we should do obvious joke and then throwaway joke, but I was just having trouble sorting them a little bit. And it walks the line. Because I was like, oh, one of my obvious jokes is a visual gag, but a lot of my throwaway jokes are visual. Okay. I just like they're there if you want them. But I do think the giant headline of cannibalism in God's house. No, that took four days. I think it's obvious. It's like quite obvious and very funny. Really, really funny. It's the prop, but also call that in dialogue. Yeah. That feels obvious enough. Yeah. Yeah. Also, he murdered teenage girls. You were in your 40s. You'd be fine. It's also extremely, extremely good. All right. Any other obvious jokes you want to call out? Dick Hole Street. Yeah, Dick Hole Street is really good. Shout out Evan. All right. Favorite throwaway joke. I think it's also Seahag related. It's when- You love the hag. I honestly did really love the hag. You're a hag guy. When Tom calls the sheriff to tell him about his hag experience, and the sheriff has written down, old woman, possibly damp, faster than old woman, should be exclamation point. Yeah. Absolute perfection. We should say, Kevin Carroll, an actor we love in the leftovers is here. I love him in this like sheriff's role. Like it's great. Here's a, I didn't like prompt you for any to come up with any theories, but I have one theory. I love to hear it. Is the sheriff's wife real and or alive? Do you think she is also a ghost? I don't know. We've only heard her on the other side of the phone. It's a haunt. People do make phone calls, Joe. I know. I'm just saying we haven't seen her yet. I would think this is a small enough town that everyone would know, right? The only person who saw him on the phone talking to his wife was Wick, who would be like- Playing along. There is talking to his like dead wife again or something like that. I hadn't even considered it. I don't know. I just like, when I haven't seen a character, I'm like, why haven't I seen that character? Why is that just a voice on the phone? Well, his grand designs do seem to be to move away, to leave the island. I mean, maybe his wife tried to leave the island and was among those who died as soon as she got to the mainland. Many people die when they get to Boston, truly or spiritually. Crash truck in the wolves calendar. Really good. All of the headlines, pre-seed by whale, man found dead by horse was like an extremely good one. I did read the lead on that article. Very good. The daddy's home game, the teeth game. It's just pliers. The game is just pliers. The one that he didn't open, which is just called, she shouldn't have said that. Incredibly good. The run, a bit, all of that. Yeah. When I was like watching it and they were playing daddy's home, and the guy that I was like pretty sure was a ghost said, oh man, I'm in the basement. I'm getting crushed. I was like, did this guy die by getting crushed in a basement? And we do find him in the crawl space later on. It's a little different. We do. And then would you call the Kathy runner a non-obvious joke? I think it's fairly obvious. Tom's. But I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Enemy Kathy at the diner. Everyone's enemy, it seems. I don't know. She's best friends with Marissa. So. I mean, she got a free burger and fries out of it. Sounds great. Some people do win. Yeah. Oh, and one other thing, one of the visual, in episode three, when we get the Richard Warren video, there's just like a brief glimpse of the map. And he's describing like, you know, 42 nautical miles, like blah, blah, blah. And then just says, do not travel here in large letters on the map that he's like describing this bucolic island that they found. Is this the same video? So is this the one of the gentleman in the room talking about the town's history? Who goes to leave and the door is locked and he just stands there. Again, another just like wonderful little joke sitting right there. Yeah. Very Blair witchy. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I also think Wick just nailing a board to the door without nailing it to the frame. This is this is why we throw it when he's just sort of like he opens the door. Absolutely. Like yeah, did nothing. All right. Favorite horror movie reference or Easter egg. I think it's all the Jaws stuff for me. Yeah. Yeah. As far as the Easter egg, like I really did love the board games as well. Teeth is just like such a diabolical idea. And also when Tom is describing to Arthur at the Historical Society, like, you know, 42 people set out, she's like 43. He's like, it's a little early for that story. And he's like, it came came to an island and nothing was here. And she's like, except for the teeth. Except for the teeth. Did you ever play Don't Wake Daddy? The board game, Don't Wake Daddy? Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, but yes, it's amazing in retrospect how much like how many games. I remember there's also a cartoon show called Wait till your father gets home. It's like, how many things were just constructed around like dads coming home and being fucking so scary because in part they got yelled at by their younger bosses. I remember like the commercials like, Don't Wake Dad. Yeah. This felt very Don't Wake Daddy coded to me. Dad's younger, got chewed out by his younger boss. Really funny. A whorem of your reference, Easter egg, I will say, I guess, yeah, the shining stuff in episode two. But also like those are things I might be inclined to miss. So for a CGTV at Spotify.com, if you caught some deep cuts, we'd love to hear them. Best haunt, scare, spook or fright. Look, I think it simply has to be the clown killer at 51. Really true. Specifically like Tim Baltz, who I mean, I just love on Righteous Gemstones, just the right amount of like aw shucksie in bonding with Tom in the first place and then turning him into the clown killer. It's like not unexpected, but when he lowers himself into frame. You know what's happening. It's really tough. And he's really been watching the game tape on the Pennywise Crawl. Like he really gets it. Yeah, I can't beat clown. I can't beat clown for you. I will say though, if we get more Blair Witch stuff, I will talk more about the Blair Witch, but I have like a long, strong association with the Blair Witch Project. But I will say Tom having the camcorder that he has to like record his experience into. Very Blair Witchy. A lot of camcorders, a lot of tube TVs. Are they just raiding the severance prop department? Is that what's happening? All right. This category I'm calling New England's Best Kept Secret, which is the headline on Arthur's New York Times article. Is there a moment watching these three episodes where you're like, oh, what is Bay? Actually seems pretty nice. I think it's the no-cell signal. I agree. To be unreachable. No Wi-Fi. No Wi-Fi, no cell signal. Oh my God. Well, you'll welcome the peace and quiet, says Tom. I actually would. Yeah. Counterpoint, could I ever live in a place with two restaurants? That seems like tough. The Driftwood. The Salty Whale is the nice one. Yes. I think it is the Driftwood Diner. Something like that. Okay. You need more than two. I've seen a little variety. Well, there's a coffee shop. Yes. What I love about— newly installed cappuccino machine. What I love about Tom's single dad, single working dad, is that it seems like they eat takeout every single night. That may have never cooked in his life. Yeah. I loved the little moment when they're watching the ball game and he takes the onions off his sandwich, like without even looking and just puts them on his son's sandwich. It's kind of lovely. I also say a place that has Hills Beach, Arthur Point, The Seated Rye, Cobble Pond, all sounds very nice to me. There is, unfortunately, also a place called the Old Hospital, which is tough. I love a coastal town. Medicino, California, my favorite place in the whole world. Yeah. The fog has had us for a long time. It may just be getting the people of Widow's Bay, but— I'm really pro fog. Yeah. It's been kind of foggy in LA. It has. The last couple days have been really nice. Unseasonably. I've enjoyed it. Could use a cliff, you know? An LA local called it the May Gray. I don't know if that's a real LA thing, but she's like, I guess it's the May Gray. I guess we're going to make it a thing if it's not a thing. Well, we're new to LA. Hey, is that a thing, LA? We don't know. I do think the Old Hospital, that's perfect New Jersey style lore. You can drive by it, but you can't stop there. Amazing stuff. That's Matthew Reeves physical comedy beat. I think it has to be him floundering around in the shallow part of the beach after being chased to the shore by the hag. Also, his rash guard that he's wearing. And then also the— I was thinking a lot of the ice rink moment in Parks and Recreation, the Gloria Estefan get on your feet when he was like— when I'm so excited it was playing as he's walking down in his rash guard to do his swim. Very ice rink to me. When he prompts his wick, he'll give him five minutes of his undivided attention. Yes. And wick's like, I don't want you correcting my grammar. I want to go tip for tit. I want to go for tip for tit. And then he does— Matthew Reeves does this shaking it off, sort of clenching his jaw thing. Yeah, this is sort of like— The clock hasn't even started yet. And I need to just eat this down. So much of the show we should say really relies on Matthew Reeves playing the comedy beats clearly. But also he has to be alone to be frightened. So you have to put him in spaces where he is really the only actor responding to these crazy things that are happening. I don't know that I've ever seen him in quite this frantic register. Usually even when he's stressed, there's kind of a control to him. And so seeing him be a little more spastic, a little more like, I'm so delighted you just compared us to Martha's Vineyard. I can't help but cackle in the middle of this restaurant. There is an on-edgeness to him that I'm really appreciating. Obviously we love him, the Americans. We weren't like huge Perry Mason heads or anything like that. We did watch all of the Beast and Me. We did. That man can eat a chicken. I'm just so excited for him to have this role. This is such a good, good role for him. Oh, he's really good on Girls too. He's great in that Girls episode. Yeah, Matthew Reese, just like a really underrated, absolute rock star. All right, something, something, Steven Root. What's Steven Root moment do you want to call out? I feel like I am indexing it very hard on season three because somebody had to bring a shanty and I'm glad it was Steven Root. Singing the high song, that's what I have to. Is it the last shanty we'll hear in this Jaws-inspired, you know, I hope to God not. Island-based folk horror. So many sailors have been lured to their death. You're telling me we don't have any other shanties about what happened. Honestly, if every episode had a sea shanty about whatever horrors await us, I would welcome it. The fact that the shanty starts with him just going like, oh. And I don't know why I've saved him for last, but we want to shout out Evans, Evans guide to teenage rebellion. Okay, so speaking of people who I'm really excited for, the actor playing Evan, we first met on Presumed Innocence. We sure did. Another Apple show we should note. Kingston Rumi South, they almost have stable over actors that they're sort of passing around. Netflix does, S.H.B.O. does. But Chase Infinity had a great year last year. She did. Was it because of Presumed Innocence? No, but I'm just saying she got her like, Completely. Let's wash off the stench of my, it wasn't her fault, narrative role in Presumed Innocence. But I don't remember Kingston Rumi South like popping in Presumed Innocence the way that he is like really popping for me in this show. I think he's so funny. His just incredibly dry, sarcastic, like response to Tom's agitation is just extremely good. And there's so many other ways to play this kid is like more of a shithead or like all this other stuff. But like I like him, but also he's just constantly like being a smart ass and lying. And I just, I really enjoy him. And the very specific way that he's playing dumb is like super funny. I'm completely with you. Like this is a kind of character on other shows that's usually like very annoying. And it's like clearly the weak point. Every scene he's in is wonderful. It's super funny. And I think some of it is like, again, that delegate balance where there is like a sweetness to him, where like the playing dumb you buy, but also he's clearly so much smarter than he's letting on the like, I found this joint. Do you know what this is? After taking 10 seconds to consider what he's going to say, do you know what this is? I was trying to figure out and then he exhales. It's a different kind of fog coming for all of us. That's so funny. Yeah. Like staying that I with Ruth and when he's like, okay. And he's like, what did you just concoct? It was really good. He just figured out that Ruth wouldn't be able to tell the difference between him and like an armoire, you know, Dick Hall Street. Somebody did that. That's horrible. That's crazy. That's horrible. Oh yeah. It's a sleepover date. Yeah. It's exactly what it is. So good. Any thoughts or feelings about these teenagers and what they might get up to? I mean, they're going to have to be imperiled. Like that's just the logic of a horror movie. And specifically Evan is going to have to be imperiled in a way that will test Tom or test his bravery or his willingness to believe all this stuff. And like the line right now is Tom is clearly scared out of his mind, but won't acknowledge to anyone who's not wick. In part because wick just shot the seahag with a gun and turned her into like mucky water. Pause for a moment. Yeah. What did that smell like? I mean, you don't want to know. It smells like the still water of a fucking bog, you know? Very boggy. What if we could watch this show in 40X? The spray? Yeah. Yeah. You know what I would welcome it? Yeah. I would welcome the extra sensory experience. A little like expressive cappuccino a little earlier on. A little less a waft. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. I don't trust every show or movie with that experience, but I do think they would be very good at it. Anything else you want to call in for Widow's Bay? A show that we're really enjoying. Again, the show does such a great job of all those inversions that we mentioned. And like I think one of the things that there's these moments in every episode that are driving that home for me, when the seahag has crawled on top of Tom and his recliner and he uses it to catapult her across the room. Yeah. There's just so many of those moments where it's like, I feel like I'm in great hands tonally. I feel like every time that I am settled or unsettled, I'm going to be yanked back in the opposite direction in a way that feels like so sure of itself. You had watched episode one and I had watched episode two and something that I was saying to you is like, when I watched episode one, I thought like what's the fog was going to be like the whole season. Yeah. But it's like the fog is just episode one. Right. Episode two, we got a haunted in. Yeah. Episode three, there's a seahag. But accompanying all of it is the like, the mayor is going to spend a night in the inn or the inaugural swim. Right. This very parks and recreation, like there's a harvest festival we have to put on sort of thing. So like beach reads, which is episode four, is this like, is this sunset drinks? Like it has to be, right? We can't like not find out what happened in sunset drinks, right? I mean, we have to see what happens there. And I would assume too, like this is probably not the last we've seen of Marissa and her bachelorettes or do you think- I should hope so. She had like great chemistry with Matthew Ries. Really great. Yeah. I mean, he blew it. He did. You know, he overthought the hag situation. Tom was going to blow it no matter what. One way or another. That is 100% true. But I'm imagining based on what could be happening at the drinks, maybe this is where the island starts getting locked down a little bit. But I guess we also have so much season left. Maybe that's not the case. I'm just going to read the other episode titles just so we can have some fun doing that. What to expect on your trip. Our history, which could be a flashback episode. Sure sounds like it. That's the Ty West episode. So get the afraid. Sea sickness, your baggage, emergency shelter, a storm. We hope you enjoyed your time. Exclamation mark. So I really love this show. I hope more and more people are watching this show. This is a show that I hope runs for several seasons. Very much so. And unlike, suffrage doesn't have like three years in between seasons would be really nice. Do you think the premise itself lends itself to multiple seasons? Well, I guess it depends on like the island is waking up. Is there something we have to, you know, like Reverend Bryce Toby Huss is like, there are things that you must do. So like, are there things that, you know, leading up to your human sacrifice chair theory, etc., etc. Are there things to do to appease the island? And if there are, is that an end of the season? Or is that a series long endeavor? Or like, or does it just like wake up again next summer? How often does the island wake? You know, how many had like sea shanties can we concoct? It's a great question. Yeah, I did, I did have that question of how long can something like this go? I think it's always tough with like high concept comedy. But since we're in like the Mike Sher coaching tree, it was something that I know is like hovering over the good place from minute one, right? It's like, as soon as the show starts, I was thinking about the good place a lot with this show. I think it also has a lot in common, but it's like, how, once you play out the conceit to a certain point, where do you go? How do you reinvent it? How can you change it? Like, I think there's so many things about Tom's story that would have to be dramatically different now that he's opened his eyes to what it means to exist in the fog and all these other mysteries. And like, that's where like the, if you'll pardon, like the fog as the mist part comes into play, where it's not even about like, what is the imminent danger, but the idea that there is imminent danger that you now have to acknowledge and recognize. That's, that'll be a dramatic shift for the show. Anything else you want to say before we go? I'm ready to get out of here. I just, I hope we get more Cathy. I hope she continues to be very terrible at her job. It's bringing me much delight. And I love doing this show and I love talking about it with you, Joe. Shout out to Katie Dippold, who we're, did you want to explain for the listeners why you were most excited that Katie Dippold is, is running the show? I mean, the Parks and Rec connection is nice. Yes. The Ghostbusters connection is nice. The Heat connection is nice. She is the author of the single greatest tweet in the history of the medium, which if you're not familiar with dressing like the Babadook when your friends are having more of like a grown-ups drinking wine vibe situation, I can think of no source text that would show that someone is better for horror comedy than that. So we really are in great hands. It's the photo that goes along with that tweet that really sells it. Just tremendous. Yeah, look it up if you haven't seen it. If we can throw up that visual here on the pod, let's please do that. Absolutely. And I just want to shout out, Neil Casey, who is not only playing the innkeeper, but also wrote episode three, one of your favorite episodes of this, of this batch. So I'm excited to see, I love Parks and Recreation. I love the, I love Mike Scher shows. And so like as, as much of that sort of these city employees are trying to hold things together and deal with disgruntled locals. I also, something I do love, in a, in a haunted island east coast show, show that's like reaching for Stephen King and all this sort of stuff like that. One could easily be saddled with a lot of burdensome accents. And that's not what happened, what's happening here. No. But occasionally you get a local who's like, he's harmless. Like something like that where you're just sort of like, I'm not, not everyone has to make the swing for that accent, but it's there if you look for it. You need a little bit of old bay in there. So what else is not really going to work? I do think also too, it was so interesting hearing about the shaping of this project. Like that this is something that Katie Dippel had been kind of like working on and sitting on for a long time and had been formative into her getting into Parks and Rec in the first place. And that the version that we're seeing is so much more horror oriented than the initial was like harder comedy. In particular, it seems like the scene of, at the historical society is like maybe the most consistent in terms of what has survived that earlier version of it. At least the earlier version of that pilot or movie or whatever it's supposed to be. But even then it was like, it's been totally recalibrated and the framing has been changed. And it's like, I love when things like this kind of have that extended second life. When it's just like, you just have to find the right register to take this into a totally different gear. Something that's been kicking around someone's head for so long. Yeah. I'll be interested to see how the tone, again, if there's like episodes that feel more comedy and more horror. There's nothing wrong with that, I think inside of the season as long as it all, the scales all feel kind of balanced at the end of the day. That's been Widow's Bay. I really hope if you listen to this and you haven't watched the show, which as we've been told, some people sometimes do. Thanks so much for listening, but also watch Widow's Bay. And we'll be back for euphoria Sunday night. You sure will. I'm not sure that was a podcast that we made on Sunday, but we're going to do it again. Thank you to everyone who worked on the show today. Jacob Cornetta's here. Kai Grady's here. I'm sure Dev is going to be working on the show in one way or another. Get well soon, Dev. Yeah, feel better. And thanks to you, Rob Mahoney. Thank you, Joe. Bye.