E1072 Ask Nick - My Husband's Best Friend Made a Move on Me

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Let's ask Asnic VAL on Instagram and TikTok. So give us a follow and enjoy. We'll be glad that you did. All right, let's get to our first caller, but not before you go on and give us a follow. How's it going? Hi, my name is Melanie. I'm 33 and I'm wondering am I too intimidating or am I oblivious? What do you mean by both, I guess? Okay, so I give a little context of my question. So I have been single for the past four years. I came out of a long term relationship and I have been trying to navigate the dating scene and I've had a lot of bad luck and I've been working with a therapist in this time. And what she's told me for majority of things with men is that I'm too intimidating. That's why things aren't working out. Did she elaborate on what she meant by intimidating? And I guess my follow question to that is, was that like a news to you where you're like, whoa, never heard that before or did it like kind of was it someone in line with maybe feedback or you've gotten before? You know, kind of like I can kind of see what she's saying. Like she kind of gives me context. Like, you know, I've got a good career. I take care of myself. But apart of me just like doesn't fully believe it because I also have girlfriends that are just as successful as me. Take care of themselves, you know, and they are able to find, you know, the problem is for a lot of these guys is like, I can't even get a follow up after a first date. Or in now it's even progressed to even more. I can't even get like a date. Like they'll ask me on a date and then I'll get ghosted. Okay. Back to what you're therapist was saying. Like is it just is she just referencing the fact that you have a successful career and that you take care of yourself like that it? Yeah. I mean, like I think she, yes, I think she really emphasizes it mainly on the career. So I have my own business which I mean, it's, you know, not, I know not everyone has it, but I'm not like I really don't see myself as better than most with that. Like I think how do you break? I mean, like I guess, okay. So back to you mentioned recently, I'm assuming a lot of the people you're connecting with are on the apps. So to speak, you know, yes, in the past, but not honestly not really anymore. All right. Give me a couple examples of like how did you meet these guys that you, I don't know, exchange numbers, whatever communicated a little bit and then they just like disappeared or like I get what, what are you got? What are you talking about? You know, like I mean, I'm just like, you know what I'm saying? Like I'm trying to figure out what because on its face, it's like, yeah, maybe, you know, listen, people are flaky these days. They're not in committal. You're going to, it's going to happen to everyone. Right. But you make it seem like, you know, this is, it's becoming a thing. It's getting into your head and you're trying to assess, you know, what, what can you do about it? Right. Exactly. Like I've noticed it's really becoming a pattern. And so for example, this past year, I met a guy out at a bar. I met another guy at a concert. I met another guy at like a wellness center. So it's like a variety of places. And then I could say one off the apps I was talking to. And they'll all kind of lead with like, I want to take you out. And I'm like, great. And then I never, never hear from them again. And I'm like, I don't, I mean, that's all that's happening. You meet, they see your face, you exchange some information or whatever. And then they disappear. Yeah. And then sometimes like one recently came back and asked me out again. And I said, yes. And it's like again. So I'm just like, I just. I mean, listen, I, the situation you're describing, I just feel like that's is how do they even know what you do? I mean, just like talking and passing. I don't know if it's, obviously that's the thing is like, I don't know if it's always my career because it's like, I don't really talk about it. It's not like a big part of me. Well, I'm trying to say again, like, what you're describing right now, the situation, you're just describing sadly, flaky people and people who are non-committal, I don't know. But having a string of bad luck, I mean, you're just saying, hey, I met a guy at a concert, met a guy at a bar, met a guy at a wall of the center. He saw my face. I saw his. We didn't really know. That's all we really knew about each other. Right. We exchanged numbers. They didn't follow through. Like they don't know really what I do. I mean, maybe they Googled you, you know, and listen, I'm sure there's plenty of men out there, no doubt, that can be intimidated by women who are successful. I think most men, even if the men for the men who would be intimidated by that don't want to acknowledge that, they wouldn't say that outright. They wouldn't, you know, I don't think most men would say, oh, no, she's successful. She's got money. I don't like that, you know, because that would have to be, that would be almost like them looking in the mirror and saying, well, I'm not good enough for her. Right. I don't think right away a lot of men admit that to themselves, right? I think, again, I'm speaking of generalities, but I'm sure there are men, you know, the men who do get intimidated, I think it's probably after, for the men who do get intimidated about women's careers and maybe your self confidence and self-assuredying yourself. And, you know, I think that often comes after a few dates, getting to know each other and kind of feeling like, you know, I think the typical probably explanation is, you know, listen, like generally, guys like bleed, generally guys are kind of acts of service people who want to take care of their people. They want to feel, you know, I guess in their masculine, you know, you know, I'm not like, you know, whatever that means or whatever. And, you know, there are maybe nuances in dynamics and relationships where, you know, they're not feeling that and maybe you guys can adjust or whatever. That's not what you're describing. You're just like, I don't know. I've met a couple flaky guys. I gave them my number and they didn't follow through, you know, like, am I not hot enough or what the fuck? You know? Yeah. I mean, I kind of can't help but start thinking that because I'm like, my friends will talk about it. And like, and I get it. Not everything's going to work out, but it's just like, I can't even get to, from point eight to point B to see what point C is. Well, how long has this been going on? I mean, like, what are we talking here? Is this like, has this happened three times and you're just like spiraling or, you know, no, it's kind of been like, it's, so it's been just getting progressively worse. This past year it's been happening past three times, but like, I will say when I was recently out of my last relationship, I did have like some things with these like two guys I can think of. And I guess it was, and like, they kind of just ended up becoming flakes too. And it's just like, I mean, I guess things fizzle in a way. I just, I don't. What, tell me about your last relationship. What did it end? So I was actually married. Okay. And I got divorced. It was about 10, we were together for 10 years. Okay. So I was married for six. Kind of got a long engagement and then couldn't really get out the whole wedding plan thing. So I still married for six years. No, no, I was married for six months. Six months. Yeah. You were together for 10 years. Yeah. I'm married for six months. Yeah. When you signed for a venue, it's kind of hard to back out. And so what do you mean by that? So like we got engaged. We signed for a venue and then how are you engaged for two years? Okay. And then it was around COVID. So it was for eight years. Finally got engaged. Yeah. And then not from there. Yeah. What was that breakup like? I mean, you know, it was, I was, it should have happened a long time before it actually did happen. So you weren't devastated by it? No. I processed a lot. I really tried. For those last few years, really tried hard to make it work. And it just wasn't in like we did. You know, I was an individual therapy also at that point in couples. And I just, when I cut ties, I was done. I was like, was that was how long ago? Four years ago. Four years ago. Okay. And you haven't dated anyone since more than like, no, like I really have not had any luck in dating. Like, like, no one, like, it just seems like for a lot of them don't, it was just seems like they don't take me seriously. And I just don't understand what, how I'm messing that up. What do you, why do you feel like they don't take you seriously? Like I don't get asked out on dates or like, or follow through or like pursued. I guess is a good way of putting it. I don't feel like no one really pursues me. People will be like, I feel like people probably are asking you out. And I'm like, well, no, I really don't get asked out. I just, I don't know if I'm giving up a bad signal. I mean, listen, I don't, you know, it's interesting. You know, listen, you were, you were with a guy for 10 years. Yeah. And in that time, I think the dating landscape changed a lot. Yeah. Even for the people who were, when they were dating, you know, I've been out of the dating scene for a while now. Sure. But I wonder how much it has changed, you know, like obviously we, I talk to a lot of people who like you who are, who are dating and, you know, the message is always, you know, listen, it's difficult out there. It's challenging, you know, listen, I don't know, not to sound more discouraging. I mean, I'm sure there's some, there's some element to, yeah, maybe just like, I mean, maybe even men lost their way in terms of pursuing. I don't, you know, I don't, yeah. Maybe there's a little bit of that. Who are the guys you're like, what, when you want to say, like, the type of guys you're going for is that they are all the same as their variety. It's just, it doesn't really matter what they look like or what they do. These guys tend to be ten flaky. You know, I mean, I guess, physically, I kind of have a type of, they kind of, they have buried. I have worked with what my therapist saying of like up leveling more in like, like, I could think of the first guy dated was like living at home and nothing wrong living at home, but like no job, no way aspirations. Yeah, I think, you know, I sure there is. Yeah, like listen, I don't, maybe there's nothing wrong with being in your 30s and living at home, if you're a guy, but I think, I think you have the right to raise some eyebrows. I think you have the right to go. Yeah, I wonder what the reason is, you know, I don't think, yeah, I think you're allowed to question that, you know, especially again, for someone like yourself, right? Like you are hard to, it's hard, it's hard to start your own business. It's even harder to make that remotely successful and sustainable, even to break even and even more hard to like make a living out of it where you feel like, yeah, I mean, I'm pretty successful. And, you know, I'm a real boss and I'm kind of doing my own thing. That takes a certain level of drive and commitment and perseverance and like not easy to do. You've done that, right? That's the literally opposite of the guy who's living with his parents for whatever reason. You know, like I mean, listen, I was 28, I mean, my then girlfriend, fiance, whatever, had a breakup, moved him, I moved him with grandma for six, seven months, you know, very temporary situation. If you asked me, I knew why. I was like, yeah, well, you know, it was better than living with her. So there was a reason. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I did it and it was a memorable experience in my life. And I'll always remember it because I got to bond with grandma. And it was certainly never imagined I'd be 28 and doing it. But like, you know, as opposed to be like, yeah, I just, I don't know, it's like cheaper than getting my own place. And, you know, my room's there at mom and dad's and like, I don't know, like why not? You know, like two very different situations, right? And so what, you know, it's like, yeah, it's not, it's not the end of the world. I'm not saying you have to run, but I think for, especially for someone like yourself, you know, it probably not your guy. Yeah. No, we, and like, and I lived at home too, post-op, or so I'm like, I'm not against living at home. It was just, I become more conscious of the men. I've now I'm starting to pick. And that's also where I'm coming into problems is like, okay, I'm picking more guys similar to me that are, you know, more driven, take care of themselves. You know, we're kind of at the same level that, and it just, it, I think, I mean, it is, I just wanted to hear from your side because I love listening to your podcasts and I feel like you have a really good take on dating and life that, like, you know, what is it the current dating climate? Or am I like missing something like to? I probably both, right? I think, yeah, I think we can acknowledge that dating is hard. And I think there are a lot of, I think probably especially for women like you who are successful and like you, you know, you don't need a man, you know, type of thing. You know, like you're not, there might be women who maybe are more traditional conservative who like wake up, you know, who grow up to, you know, in their plan is to, you know, you're from the South or the Midwest. It's like, yeah, what do you want to do? It's like, I want to, I want to find a husband. I want to get married. I want to be a mom. I want to have kids and I want, you know, and that's great. You know, for that, like that's not you. And also like you're probably more than normal now than anyways. But this is all to say, yeah, it requires, and I think for women like you, I guess my point is, is like, yeah, I think, yeah, in the past five or 10 years, there's a lot of conversations around and different pockets of the internet in terms of like, you know, the loneliness of man and what's wrong with man and part, you know, a lot of, you know, like has the internet, you know, is there been over correction, you know, in terms of how we've spoke about or treated men, yada, yada, yada, has, how's, you know, I don't know, how's that affected them? That being said, I don't feel like, you know, in the past five years, like all men completely lost their way, you know, and, and, and, you know, they're all like online play video games. I don't think, I mean, I think maybe like the younger generations are more concerned about, like, you know, you're, you're in your early 30s, you know, like, you, you're probably should be dating men who, you know, are your age are a little older. And I think, you know, it can't be that bad. And I guess, yeah, I think for all of us, answer your question of being long-winded here, but like, yes, there is probably something that you haven't discovered about yourself. I'm trying to figure out what that is. But right now, I'm hearing, you know, you can barely get a second date with anyone. And so wait, wait, wait, what, what first dates have you had that you felt like were good that you were open to a second date, but they weren't like, I mean, it's something as simple as like coffee and a walk, like I am okay with like casual first dates. I know. I'm not asking you to describe your perfect first date. I'm asking what first dates have you had that you can remember? Yeah. You had a good time. You left that first date being like, nice time. I'm interested in learning more. And then he just disappeared. And you thought, oh, what the fuck happened? Like I thought we had it as time. Do you, are there, have full of those situations? Yeah, there's a couple I can think of. Yeah, I mean, there's been obviously first dates to where I'm like, oh no, like this is, this isn't it either. But there's been a few, yeah, where I'm just like, I don't know. I thought it was good. And like, I don't know. When you're on dates, do you do more, most of the talking or? No, I feel like I feel like, I, I, I, really tried to work on like being, I feel like if anything, I, nervously will go more to talking, asking them questions. I think with my field of work that like, I'm very, I work with a lot of people. And I'm used to like talking to people and like, you know, getting to know them. Are you driving the conversation? Sometimes. I mean, there's some dates where it's like the, the dates that are good, I will say, ones that are good, they're asking me questions just as much back. And those are, I think that's what really makes them, I mean, like them more in a way. Do you? This is a kind of a general question, but do you think when you are on dates, do you see if the men that you go on dates with are willing or capable of leading? I, you know, maybe not. I don't know. Like that's, you know, I, you know, I wouldn't say, I think I do, but I'm starting to question if I really do. Do you know what I mean? Like do I really like are you the one suggesting the spots? Are you? No, no, no, I, you know what? No, I do let them lead in that sense. I, I'm not asking them out. I'm not initiating, but I do, I feel like I, I will say it can have a tendency to drive the conversation a bit. I don't know. Yeah. I'm not initiating or leading dates. Yeah, and that's not the end of the world. I'm just trying, I'm nitpicking. Sure, sure. You know, you know, do you have any other like dating examples where you're like, you were really confused by the outcome? I mean, yeah, like there's like, there's just, I'm trying to think. I mean, that's just like, it's, it's so limited. My dating experience is like, I can't, like there's never been multiple dates where I've been like, I don't understand what happened. It's just kind of like, it's one day and then they're gone. And it's just like, I don't quite get it. And it's just like, and I'll even like sometimes even text the follow up and I know, I don't know. Are they like, what do they look like physically? Are they all like really pretty men? No. I mean, I find them attracted, but I don't know if like my friends would say they're pretty. Like they're taller guys with beards. I mean, it's so like you basically, I'm going to go, I'll tell you. I'm five six. Okay. And the men that you're dating, are they always over six foot? Yeah. I mean, like that, I'll be honest, I don't aim like it's not like I'm like, I need six foot. It's just kind of how you just only happened to only date them. Well, okay, I actually have gone on now. I think about it. I've gone on dates. These guys are like five, 10, 5, 11 or 5, 9, even like or even shorter than me without even realizing it. You're saying how often though, seriously though, the shorter guys. Yeah. And they were, were they the same flaky people that yeah, yeah, like, yeah, they were. Yeah. So five, nine or six, four, you just can't get a second date to save your life. No, I just have a hard time believing that. Just like, or no, it's like I can't even get a first date now. Like I can't get them. Like they'll be like, I want to be right now. It's so bad that you could go to the grocery store and see this like an average looking five, seven guy and you don't think you can land a date with him. No, like they like, no, like I go out, went out the other week and like, like, I don't know what it is. I don't even talk to me and I'm like, I don't. I just do stink. I hope not. I just like, I know something's not adding up. I don't know. You're a lovely looking person. You know, again, I don't know what you do for work, but you, you, you, you seem like you have your sit together. I mean, I've been talking for 20 minutes. Like, oh, you seem fine, right? Like you, you know, talking to you, you, you, listen, you have an energy that's, you know, yeah, you can tell that you have a confidence in you and you can tell that you're not a, you're not demeanor. Like I wouldn't describe you as demeanor. Oh, you know, great. I don't think there's a lot. I don't think, I think there's plenty of men out there who aren't looking for a dainty little flower to protect and be their night and shining armor, you know? Like some guys like, like that very demeanor, like another guy, you know, I don't know. And I don't mean that is like, oh, yes, you're, but like, sure, you, you know, at first, you know, like a first impression, that's the impression I have, right? And but I feel like there's a lot of men. Again, that's incredibly general when I just talking to them. It's like, and it just doesn't make sense that like the fact that like, you know, when you were like, oh, these guys are typically tall as beards. My fur, you know, my, my, my thought is like, maybe it's silly as it sounds. Maybe that's your problem. I mean, it is fascinating. It is fascinating when you, like again, when you think about the impact, social media, and specifically dating apps has had on our perspective when it comes to dating, right? And it truly is, I think it's crazy when you really think about it. I think we all, you know, especially our kids, but all of us have been propagandized by the internet and by our algorithm, by what we're seeing. We're, it's something that is designed to trigger us, you know? And then when you take that to dating again, you know, sure, the typical woman, the average, you know, stereotype is like, she probably prefers someone a little taller than her and then, you know, everyone has their preferences. But like literally, I don't know what this, you know, it's like less than 2% of men or something like that or 5% I don't know. It's a really small number over six foot, you know, and that's just their height. And so on dating apps, you know, you have basically like 10% of the men, you know, even no matter what cars of what their face looks like or what they do for work or their personality, they're, they have this huge advantage. And then you have like 80% of the women or something, I don't know, are going after. Yeah. You know, like the smallest group of men who are over six foot and they have, you know, they have developed this ability to, I don't know, it's to not have kind of unlimited options. And then you have these, you know, a bunch of other people, a bunch of other men who aren't tall, you know, who are striking out left and right because they can't even get, you know, if they, if a guy who was, who was like 5, 8 called in and he was like, I can't fucking sound it like you, you know, it's sad to say. I'd probably be like, yeah, man, I believe you. You know, because it's brutal out there for the short years. You know, they really, they don't get any benefit for the doubt, you know, like all of us in our head work, we judge people so fast. And this is probably part of why you're experiencing this because again, I think the landscape of dating has is so deteriorated so much is because of technology is because we, it's so easy for us to judge without meeting people now because we feel like we meet people and who they are online, right, on TV, right? We just, it's so easy for us to make a, just grand assumptions, right? And so I'm sure you're experiencing that a little bit when it comes to dating because we're all doing it, right? That being said, yeah, I mean, so yeah, I find it hard to believe that you, you, you, if you're like, I'm only going to pursue men 5, 10 or under just for an experiment. You know, I just want to see if I can get a date. I don't, I don't even honestly don't care what they look like. I just want to get it. I'm going to do an experiment. I just, I, I mean, I just find it hard. There's this, there's a way, you know, I find it hard to believe that you couldn't land a date with anyone, you know, I think in reality, you know, like all of us, you're being selective and picky as you should with the people you want to go on dates with. And you are striking out with them. And listen, I think you being with someone for 10 years, you were out of the dating game, you broke up what, 20, not your 29ish going in your 30s. Yeah, 29, yeah. I'm just, you know, I'm sure there was an anxiousness internally for you to like, you know, make up for lost time, get back out there, meet some people, find your person. I don't doubt it all, this is all happening at a time where dating has become more difficult for everyone. Mm-hmm. And so I think that all that whole combination of you have a bit of anxiousness and, and eagerness and a lack of patience to meet someone, coupled with the fact that the dating pool has become even trickier and people are more non-committal. And then you're searching probably more than you realize, probably mostly online. Yeah. And only, and not only really looking for guys who, you know, every other woman online is looking for, and you are competing even for the most average men. You know, you are like one of 20 that they're picking from. Yeah, no, you're probably right. I'm like, probably, I, yeah. I think there's a little bit of that. Right. All of that is like outside of your control, other than I think what I think, you know, I think you've got to probably just change a narrative in your head. No, I, listen, I, you know, you're, listen to your therapist, she's your therapist, whatever. I don't think you're doing yourself any good by having this narrative that I'm intimidating specifically because of my job. I understand that a lot of women who, like you who are successful can feel that from time to time. But what are you going to do? Quit your job, give up your career. You know what I'm saying? For just some fucking guy, of course you're not going to do that. You should be proud of what you did. And I'm sure you are. And of course you're not going to sacrifice all the hard work you've put into yourself in your career just to like make some average guy feel better about himself. Of course you're not going to do that, right? So like what good does it do to have this narrative that matter intimidating by you? Listen, I think it's, I think that's kind of a self-limiting belief. I think you should be proud of what, you know, how you've got about your business. I think to a certain degree, you can be self-aware to the fact that it requires a certain type of aggression and motivation and directness and assertiveness to be an entrepreneur that you are, right? And that energy to be a successful entrepreneur and early on in dating, especially dating men, you know, you might be, you know, without being too neurotic about it and towing your head, just be, you know, a little more mindful to just, again, when you're on dates to let the guy quote unquote lead to just see what he's about. Just, you know, lean into your feminine. If, I don't even know if you know what that means, but you know, you know, but like just be a little more, you know, take a step back. You're not, you know, you're not at work. You're not the boss right now. You are just, you are curious and, you know, but maybe you're already doing that, but like all I'm saying is fine. If you're experiencing a little bit of like feeling like some guys are a little like taken back by you, then, then, then be a little bit more mindful about that. But that's all you really can do, right? Because again, I don't think you should be dating the guy who lives at home. Right. You know, I think you should be dating the guy who is feeling, you know, successful in his career. You know, you, you want to find the guy where you're the missing piece, right? And there's a lot that the good news is is that like there are a lot of lonely people out there, you know, there's a lot of people who want to find that connection. There are a lot of men I'm guessing in their mid to late 30s, early 40s who have everything but their partner, right? And they're like rushing their career and maybe they're just tired of being the fuckboys or whatever. But I think just a little bit of patience and a little bit of like positive, you know, outlook and it just doesn't do you any good to be like, I can't get a fucking date, you know? And I think for, and you just have to objectively look at situations, if you meet a guy, a concert, you know, nothing about them in exchange numbers and he doesn't follow up. I mean, that's, it has nothing to do with you. Yeah. You know, there's everything to do with him, you know? And, and, and to sit there and, and pay a therapist to tell you that, you know, it's apparently you're too successful. Um, I don't know, like, it's like, thank God you got money, you know, it's like you're, you know, what I don't know what that does. I, you know, I think you just got to own who you are and it's like more fine tuning rather than tell yourself that every guy out there is, is intimidated by you. Like, what are you, what are you supposed to do with that? So I don't know if any of this is helpful, but I do. This is very helpful. I appreciate it so much. Yeah. I think you got to change your minds a little bit. I think you have to maybe take a beat, take a breath and then recognize that like coming out of a 10 year relationship in your early 30s for anyone and especially for women because obviously a biological clock at society is a little more critical of y'all than, you know, than men when it comes to age. Um, and you might have internalized that and felt a little bit of a pressure and anxiousness. And maybe you projected that on to your dates a little bit and maybe those little moments, you know, it was probably a combination of a bunch of little things and not, and, and most of the dates you went on, it wasn't any just one thing, you know, unless you've gotten feedback from girlfriends or friends, we're been like, yo, you know, when you go, like when you're around guys you like, you, you turn into a freak and you're super aggressive and you're kind of obnoxious and you know, unless you're getting that feedback, you're probably not doing much wrong. You just haven't found your guy and just stop wasting your time going on in dates with guys who live with their parents. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, no. Um, and then, you know, if you get flaked by a flake in that they're flake, it's not you. Yeah. Yeah. That's all you can try to do. And you know, I'm not saying that, you know, but yeah, if you're going to, if you're going to meet men over six foot online, just know, you're one of 30 people, they're, they're matched with. Yeah. That's, that's, that's, that's a sad reality of, I mean, it's just, it's tall guys have always been able to kind of abuse that privilege and power and social media has made it limitless for them. Yeah. And I'm not saying it, you know, don't, don't date tall guys, but yeah, when you're like, yeah, I even did a guy who was five, 10 once as if you were some hero. Um, it's like, okay. Yeah. I, maybe just being a little bit more open to that. Okay. Cause there are a lot of lonely, nice guys out there who want to find their person too. And I think, yeah, the world needs to figure out how to connect people. Yeah. I get really work at shifting my perspective on that as a good, obvious point. All right. Well, good luck out there. All right. I'm glad you found this helpful. I wasn't sure if it was. No, it was very helpful. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Well, keep us posted. When you go back out there, you know, reflect, you know, ask yourself how you're doing and get and just be patient. But we'd love to follow up and see if you've been able to incorporate any of, it's really just a, it sounds like to me, it's a mindset. Yeah. I could definitely see that. And to whatever point you quote, are actually intimidating. Again, I don't think you should change all that much because, okay. You know, you are who you are and you just have to find the guy that's right for you. But maybe early on, you can be a little mindful of leaning into your, having insight or, you know, whatever. And, and just because again, the guy you end up with probably will be, you know, still want, he'll be confident enough to be with someone like you who's also like successful and confident, but he will still want to feel that sense of, you know, leading and whatever and things like that. So don't change who you are too much. Just maybe give him a, a, a window to lead early on. Okay. I'll work on it. I'll, I'll get back to you when, how things go. Sounds good. All right. Take care. You too. All right. Bye. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. PS, UPS and FedEx, including your own discount rates, if you have them to find you the best shipping option on every order with discounts up to 90% off 90. 90. You heard it right. So listen, if you are spending on shipping, know that saving on shipping is absolutely critical for your business. Set up time saving automations, shipstation can pick the best carrier, find you the best rates, print labels and bulk send tracking updates. It's super easy. 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So I'll exclusively at Walmart. Check out Walmart.com to find a store near you. How's it going? Good. My name is Camille. I am 30 and my fiance has been lying about bumbling addiction, other things and I want to be able to trust him again but our wedding is only four months away. How recent are these discoveries of his dishonesty? Yeah. So the gambling I found out about or it was happening from it got bad July through Thanksgiving. He stopped it on Thanksgiving and then I found out about three weeks later. So it's fairly recent. And as far as you know, he just randomly started gambling this year and it got out of control and then stopped and then you found out about it. Yeah. He's been sports gambling for a while on his phone but it was always like $1, $2, $5. Like we talk about it. We watch a lot of sports together. I would do it every once in a while on my phone as well. But in July, the volume and the amounts picked up pretty significantly. My understanding was he was like pretty even for a while but he was it was increasing like a lot and he kind of got into a rabbit hole and I think he was gambling more and more to try to win it back and he was fairly even but was still gambling very large sums and then towards the end around Thanksgiving. He did lose quite a bit and that was when he kind of like realized he had an issue and he did stop it and then it took him a few weeks to work up. The courage to tell me. So he did tell you like you found out from him. I did find out from him. Okay. When you said amongst other things, what are the amongst other things he's been lying about? Yeah. I found out in March that he had been sexting someone and we got into couples counseling after that. I thought we had worked through it. He had been having panic attacks and had started anxiety medicine last year and it was all kind of wrapped together. The anxiety meds had like a pretty significant effect on his ability to have sex as interesting sex and in addition to the other mental health issues he was having and the effect the medicine was having. Someone had reached out to him and it had turned into something obviously inappropriate but he was willing. He was already in individual therapy he was willing to go to couples therapy. We set boundaries and I felt like we were in a better place but obviously the trust had been broken from that but he got on new meds like all of that stuff was fixed and so I thought it was kind of a one time thing. We could build back the trust and then yeah right before I found out about the gambling I found out he had like we're he had gotten a number from a girl at the bar when he was out with some single friends like the story didn't fully add up. So that the the the number he got at the bar we had was separate than the girl he was texting. Sexing whatever. Yep this was like six months after that it was a completely separate incident like the incident itself if what he's saying is true was like fairly innocent but when I found the text he lied and said it was a guy and like it was just more lying that I figured out. Yeah. So yeah it's just been like three pretty big incidents that have obviously affected my trust and with the wedding coming up and just feeling all this pressure and in the last couple months since I found out about this like we are in couples counseling he's an individual counseling like I do want to give him time to work through it because I do believe he's a good person. I think he was Delta pretty shitty hand growing up his his father in our deals with some pretty serious mental health issues including addiction and a lot of other things his parents went through a really really really nasty divorce that he was fully put in the middle of and they didn't handle very well and his dad attempted or was going to attempt to commit suicide a few years ago that my fiancee was the one that kind of figured it out and stopped it but he didn't process any of that until the panic attack started happening and he went to therapy and is working through it but it's kind of created this spiral so it's hard because there's like these two sides to him there's this really loving amazing fiancee I'm trying to have empathy for addiction and for the mistakes he's made but it's also obviously been challenging on our relationship and on me and kind of like broken this like perfect image I have of him in our relationship and like what our future holds. Yeah that's tough tough situation I mean you know you don't need me saying this to you but there's no perfect relationship or perfect person we all have our flaws every relationship has some problems. Yeah people we love the most are the ones who sadly hurt us the most because we're invested in those relationships you know like none of these situations that happened that you described while hurtful while ugly in its own way you know finding out your partner lost what was are you comfortable sharing some of money that he lost? Yeah ultimately he lost $20,000 large chunk of that was on Thanksgiving which is when he cut it off but that's a lot of I mean I make significantly more than he does and that's definitely like a very significant portion of his income he didn't touch any of my we do have joint accounts together he didn't touch any of my money but we're living at home right now to save money we're both extremely frugal we've been saving for a wedding house like all of this stuff so yeah this just was yeah obviously like a huge blow but it's more about the trust than the money and he said that he's willing to like get a second job to make up for all of that like I'm not it's not about the money like obviously it was a ton of money and it sucks you're right I mean it's a ton of money it's incredibly damning and but you're right it's survivable and it's you can move forward right and to your point he lost he lost his money right not yours? Yeah I was all his money okay so like that's a him problem even though I know you're engaged in it you know it's like hey yeah okay well I'm just gonna you know I'm gonna give you just objective advice and then we can get in then we can backtrack and get into the relationship as a whole like what should you do if you like let's let's say you got a wedding form on so I commitments have been made contracts I'm sure I've been signed when plans have been made mentally if you were to think about leaving this relationship that would be a huge mental hurdle for you right so you know I think you shouldn't you need to acknowledge the level of challenge like mental hurdle that there are a lot of people in your situation would just know deep down I shouldn't do this and we'll do it anyways because you're like pot committed to not to use a gambling reference so to speak and I think it's important for you to recognize that that you know you are there's a level of stuckness that was is is understandable that you're probably feeling so yeah let's just assume for argument sake that no matter what I say to you and we talk about this relationship you end up marrying this guy fine I think you need to be incredibly smart and safe and pragmatic and take the love out of it and I guess what I'm saying is yeah you need a you need to sign a prenum yeah he's agreed to that yeah I love that and I think listen at the end of the day taking the love out of it marriage is a contract right and just for for anyone who doesn't realize this everyone who gets married signs a prenum every single person if you don't do your own prenum then the prenum that you in your partner agree to is the one that's designed by the state in which you get married in and every state has their own marriage laws so that if you guys get divorced they have the laws like Wisconsin come from there California I live there I'm aware I believe are the only two states quote unquote 50 50 doesn't matter why you get divorced you know one person can fuck half the state it doesn't matter you get half they get half it's a 50 50 state whatever and that's the law you know other states I believe different laws I don't know but just know and I'm glad he's already agreed to it I'm glad I'm I'm you don't need me saying this to you I'm kind of saying this to anyone who's listening that is the reality right you know whether you like it or not you guys are all signing a prenum and so to that end honestly and all the lawyers I'm sure would love me to say this but like everyone honestly it's kind and when you think of it in those terms it's kind of stupid to be like well why would I let the state do it for me you know like that's that's dumb and you you are in a position now where you both have to recognize that like listen you're taking a marriage on its marriage already is a huge leap of faith right it's even a bigger leap of faith in 2026 the way the society has viewed marriage as more of a you know something to do you know there's to death to you part I guess you know it's almost like we all have our fingers crossed I don't mean we you know but like the mindset that I think our society has is that you know listen to a mayor doesn't serve you you can get out and listen to some degree you know I think that's reasonable you know like why should you be stuck in hell with someone who doesn't treat you right or isn't honest with you or spends your money or things like that you know so I'm glad that you've had that conversation and and and just when you have that conversation do you have you how how far down the prenub conversation have you gotten do you have your own lawyer no not yet he's just agreed he's disagree well sign one yeah that's a good first step that's a big first step but it is you have a lot more steps to go right because I think it's easy to agree to I think a lot of people agree to it hoping that the agreement is enough for you to back down you know it's like I will I just you know I'm totally cool with signing your prenub and you're like great and then all of a sudden you're like all right well let's go to the lawyers and and you know you need to get your own lawyer and I need to get my own lawyer you know because that's how it works and and you need to agree on the terms of your prenub which can you know is an uncomfortable conversation for even the happiest couples to get into you know right and then that's where you can have conversations with lawyer and say like you know lawyers me like well what do you ultimately what what do you want what do you want to protect they should be able to give you some advice they should look at your situation in that context in some ways your lawyer is kind of like a therapist that you know you should be able to trust you should be like listen I'm I don't really know much about you you're a lawyer but I'm just going to tell you my whole goddamn story and you without having having any emotions or feelings to my relationship give me objective advice right and you should listen to your lawyer right because they they they're it's their job in that moment to protect you not to protect your relationship not to look after your partner but to protect you his lawyer will do the same right and hopefully you guys have enough common ground where he's just like yeah I mean she makes more money than me and ultimately I want you to have a position where if I if I get married to this guy and a year later you know I find out he's texted three more women he's still gambling and I want to cut my losses before there gets any crazier before we decide to have children together or whatever it is I can leave this marriage relatively easily you know I would keep your finances separate I would I would be married just for on the emotional side not the financial side you almost have to assume you're going to get divorced not not I don't if you get married this guy I don't want you to have that mindset but when you're doing the prenup so to speak you almost have to allow your lawyer to have that mindset and you have to trust your lawyer and in a way your your fiance should be you should understand the position you're coming from an empathize with the position he's put you in and why you have the fear and reluctance and lack of trust in him that you do objectively speaking there is no way this man is going to be able to get you to fully trust him in a way that really deep down inside you you would be comfortable betting on him so to speak right there's just no way there's just no way given all the things he's done that you objectively should should be able to trust him right now you're going to want to trust him maybe you're built you know in the next four months you guys could be doing a lot of therapy he could be doing individual work where you guys can make a lot of meaningful steps in the right direction to build that trust back by the time you know but that's not going to happen in four months right so if you want to move forward with this marriage with a hope and a prayer and a lot of trust which listen we many people have done that you know wouldn't fault you for doing that I expect you to almost do that with the position that you're in but you should really do everything you can to protect yourself just in case it goes sideways I mean that's what I would do if nothing else and if if all we had was this time right now we'll we'll keep talking and we met on the street that would be my advice to you so that you can just focus on the relationship once you get married knowing that like you I don't want you to live in fear once you're married and feeling like you have no out and I don't want you to feel like it's going to cost you even more than the emotional pain that will inevitably come from you having the strength to leave this relationship right and I want the rest of that kind of ugliness the money the contracts all that stuff to be taken care of so that you you know if it gets that point you're like I want out it's it's pretty straightforward you already haven't agreed situation and it you know there won't be a lot of arguing in lawyers after the fact because then it's like then all bets are off that makes sense yeah I think so we already have combined a lot of our finances and we're definitely planning on it so it's and I he does do a lot more around the house and we do want kids and he was planning to do be able to be more flexible with his work with kids too so it does make it more complicated but I choose I was and I wasn't planning to sign a prenup before all of this but yeah I definitely think that now's the time to be selfish and protect myself such that I can feel like I can take a leap of faith you have to you have to and yeah what I mean you have brought I'm guessing joint accounts or something yeah one joint account and I don't know how you guys decide to fund that account yeah you'll have to figure that out and that's where a lawyer can come in and help you at I'm not the person to to give you that advice a lawyer can but you're not married yet and whatever joint accounts you have are probably easily reversible right now because you're not married and the the challenge will be the conversation you have to have with them because that conversation for him all it's going to sound like to him is you don't trust me and yeah I think he owes you that level of understanding to be like yeah no I but I get why you don't right and I think that level of not a quality humility or stuff aware that's in his part will probably go a long way to making you feel like you can trust him is this the acknowledgement that you should it so yeah I mean and this could be something you guys talk about in couples therapy you know the the prenup itself because that will be a challenging conversation right and it would be a great place to have that conversation about why you feel this way about what you're going to need from him about why you feel like you're in this position that despite you doing what you need to do now to protect yourself you still really want to work on the the relationship and you really want this marriage to work and you're just doing everything right now because you can't predict the future you know no relationship you know it's like you people can't promise each other he can't promise you and you can't promise him that he's not going to hurt you in the future you guys don't know what the future holds you don't know what situation's going to come up you don't know what might trigger him in the future about his childhood or his past that might him make him spiral you know these met the the med that he's on you don't know what impact or side effects he might experience you don't know right and so given that all these situations all you know right now is what it's already happened right and what's happened is he's giving you plenty of reasons to doubt his ability to have the discipline to hold himself accountable to have the character despite him being triggered despite him feeling a certain way to say no I I'm I'm in a relationship no I don't want your number no like I don't you know to go out with his boys and make it very clear that he has a partner you know and it's not hard you know it's like you don't even have to be weird about I remember this long time it was 20 years ago 15 years ago I had a girlfriend went to Vegas with a group of guys from my buddy's bachelor party we were in the pool a bunch of guys and then you know when a group of guys are hanging out you see a group of girls who were there for whatever a trip or whatever maybe a bachelor party we met these group of women right start talking everyone's friendly I'm kind of in the pool with my group of guy friends and I remember like some girl was like oh I work for this place and I was like oh so does my girlfriend you know it was easy I found a way to easily just throw it out there to the world in case anyone was wondering I'm not available I'm taken you know without it being awkward to you know it's like you know that when people don't bring it up and all of a sudden you're like you know having this conversation and you're like whoa but I have a girlfriend you're like huh you haven't been acting like you have a girlfriend for the past two hours you know there's ways people can do that he's not doing right when he's going out with his boys I don't know what he's doing but he's he's not making it clear that he's unavailable well the story there which once again he said I could ask his friend I just didn't was that the single friend that was trying to get this girl's friend's number like they couldn't remember their names so they were like oh can we get your numbers and he said that like this girl knew about me and I did see the text with her and it wasn't it was her texting about her ex-boyfriend which he said was all they talked about it's bar the whole night it doesn't matter no but he still lied and why would you respond to the text like and that was a boundary that we talked about because he has a lot of girlfriends and we had to set really strict boundaries when we went through couples therapy before so it wasn't even about getting the number he currently has a lot of girlfriends no well he had he has a lot of women at work that he works with and that was something that we talked about in couples therapy after about like cutting those relationships off and keeping them platonic at work because it was something that made me uncomfortable and I'm like unfriends with a lot of them too but it was really hard for me that he texted a lot of them often and he he is a very emotionally available guy like all of them went to him with their relationship venting and stuff like that and I like it's great that he's a really nice guy and he takes care of them and he would like yeah I mean if he's single sure they got home okay but yeah definitely especially after all the couple he did under he's 29 how do you again 30 okay it's on your relative the same age but yeah he's I guess relatively young for for a guy yeah I mean listen I that's all bullshit you know it is it's his whole bullshit when you're in a relationship you be in a relationship you act like you're in a relationship you protect the relationship you you don't you know if you're I had a ton of women friends when I was single and I was single for a long fucking time you know before I met my wife Natalie and I was so used to being single you know and I think I've talked about this before in recent episodes but like when now and I first we're not just hanging out we're not just casually dating we're not just messing around you're not just hook up buddies but we're like okay we're gonna do this I'm gonna let's go I'm gonna you're gonna my girlfriend I'm your boyfriend that was so new to me I mean that was the first person and eight years or I don't something like that that I was like I have a girlfriend you know and in the first couple weeks of Nally and I being boyfriend and girlfriend I had a couple women friends come over to my my house I told Natalie about it and I and her response was kind of like okay but and I kind of had this like wait you know kind of like what am I do like this it was like I can't do this anymore it was like I knew I had a girlfriend I was gonna do anything but even just having them over and that environment was inappropriate you know and I had to recognize that real quickly that like you know if I want to be in this relationship I can't I'm not single anymore you know I have expectation my girlfriend has expectations of me and I have expectations of her and if we're actually gonna say let's be boyfriend and girlfriend let's do this and let's give this relationship a real shot giving it a real shot and applies making sacrifices that's what being in a relationship is all about it's saying yes to that one person that person who I can build an emotional connection with we can build something really meaningful that like you know you can't have with platonic relationships and casual relationships I guess what I'm trying to say is like when we're single and we have friends of the opposite sex I truly believe that like we almost like I could have like say like eight women friends you know I'm just kind of making up some random number and you know maybe I had one friend like it's like we would go to dinner now and then and catch up and you know talk she would talk about what guy she's dating and I would maybe talk about what when I'm dating and and maybe there's another friend who like when I was really upset she was the one I'd really open up to my point is like all these friendships played the role of one person you know that now that I have a girlfriend it was gonna be her responsibility to meet all those needs that I might have in a relationship and then she has all these needs that I have to meet and that's what being in a relationship is is that is that I'm committed to this relationship I'm invested in this relationship and I want and this relationship is is worth making these sacrifice it is worth committing to this person and who I want to be honest to and and it's not just about me anymore I when I'm in a situation whatever that situation is I'm not just considering how I feel I'm considering how my actions are going to affect this other person and he is not very good at that second part right now right he is very much still focusing on his needs and when he's in a situation you're not top of mind he can say that you are but you're not by his actions are proving otherwise right and you're four months away from saying I do and that's just the reality and he needs to recognize that and and and and when you're in couples therapy I hope those are the conversations you're having is why why does he have such a hard time putting you first or at least putting you at the same level he puts himself in these situations where you know there's the fork in the road and he has to choose you know he has to make a choice and when he's making choices there's too many situations where he's thinking about his needs and not the both of yours yeah no I think that that's true and that is something that we talked through especially the boundaries around women I think I was trying to be the cool girlfriend for way too long and like being fine that he texted these girls and that he was there emotional support and like that's definitely a boundary that we've set now that he pushed back on a little bit but ultimately understood where I was coming from yeah he needs to be more than understanding I guess yeah and I mean except for this one incident but yeah it's just making a question yeah I don't you know stop watering down his his mistakes you know no he brought I before I could have said okay he has these relationships with girls but I've never expressed that it was uncomfortable like we talked in couples therapy about incidents in his relationship with girls in the past that we set very clear boundaries about not texting girls and this was very clearly no matter what the story is of how it happened and what happened after like it's very clearly a break of the clear boundaries that I set and if he thought about any part of the decisions he made as part of getting this girl's number and responding to her text after like he clearly broke all of those boundaries and did some things I'm curious when he spent and when he lost that money over Thanksgiving how did he tell you um so we had just gotten back from Vegas and he was definitely very anxious when we were in Vegas and he did he bet like a normal amount like we normally do which is not that much um maybe like $200 over the whole weekend um so it wasn't a ton but he was super anxious when we were there and then the day after we got back he he finds it easier to like tell me hard things over text which is something we're working on in therapy as well but when I was working he'd like texted me that he was going to completely cut off gambling and being in Vegas just made him realize that it had gone too far but he said that he hadn't lost anything and he had therapy the next day and I think he he said he was going to go therapy the next day and worked through how to like tell me how bad it really was um but ultimately I was kind of pushing because he was like really really upset about it so you sense that something was up and you were you you dug deeper and finally it was like all right yeah the truth is I I lost on this money yeah and then even so and I don't think he realized how bad it was even then um because then for like taxes and other reasons he like really had to go through everything and I think that's when he realized like how much he he knew how much he had lost because that's how much he put into the apps but I don't think he realized like how much he was betting and how much money he was kind of like cycling through because he won a lot he he won a ton also but then obviously ultimately it was down yeah relationships are hard and people are certainly imperfect and you're just gonna have to trust your gut I guess I hate saying that but yeah the hard part is a lot of it has been on his phone so it's obviously tough because like I don't want to be the person that's checking his phone or who like plays big because we talked about like why give me access to this and that and like our therapist were kind of like well you don't well it shouldn't be your responsibility to constantly be checking his bank account to check this to check that to make sure he's not texting other people and all that but at the same time like it is hard because we are both always on our phones and a lot of it is tied to drinking and we do have very active social life both of our families are very big drinkers and so that's just been a touchy subject as well he's a slightly big drinker who's also taking anti like anti-exiting medication yeah I'm guessing those two don't mix very well I mean all of this did start around the time that he started the meds and like we talked about completely cutting alcohol out but I think that was really challenging as well because it definitely made us like it was right before the holidays and like are you pregnant why aren't you drinking I'm disappointed you're not drinking you're being a party pooper like all of this that I think made him feel like more of a free because he was just the center of attention of every single event that we went to because we're such big drinkers like they're never would have been a time that we would just turn down drinking completely but we've tried just like cutting significantly back as well and that's been challenging because my definition of cutting significantly back is definitely different than his definition of cutting significantly back and he has cut significantly back but it's still hard when you go from being like pretty heavy drinkers to what else is he doing other than medicating himself to help with his anxiety he's been much more forthcoming with me about his feelings I think both of us definitely weren't as forthcoming as we have been I mean he is an individual therapy although over the like it's been challenging because his therapist was out over Thanksgiving and Christmas when a lot of this was happening and was thick one time so I think he's only had three individual therapy sessions since all this has happened did he take care of himself is he an active person is he workout yeah super active he goes to gym every single day yeah yeah not that that's the end they'll be all but like you know extra exercise is really good for for that type of stuff but yeah and he's the chef he cooks healthy for both of us so he definitely does take care of himself I mean drinking is a big is a I you know I'm pretty sure is a big trigger when it comes to anxiety and things like that and you're describing someone who like you said his dad suffers from addiction he had signs of addictive personality and has he addressed that specifically yeah I mean he admitted that he was addicted to gambling and then in like some fights and obviously like things have been heated and emotional like I did call him an addict and he said that that really hurt him and I like we kind of talked through that too but I do think that he has admitted that he is addicted to gambling I think this thing that scares me is it's fairly easy to delete the two apps that he was on and not download those back but like is it he also cheated right like it's not like it's only been one thing that we can solve that one thing it's like clearly just general bad decision making yeah I mean again I'm not I mean certainly no expert when it comes addiction and things like that but I'm I'm pretty sure that like again people have a way of acting out so to speak right so his drinking on some levels I'm sure a coping mechanism the addiction part doesn't go away right so to speak so how is he dealing with that right so maybe I don't know AA you know there are obviously things out there for addicts of any kind and I you know whether it's your addicted alcohol or drugs or sacks or we're gambling addiction is addiction right you know I'm pretty sure when you go to AA it's not like oh hey the alcohol over there the gambling people over there I'm sure there's very specific types of of groups for different types of addiction but you know it sounds like he does have some kind of problem there and so if he's not at you know as they always say like admitting it definitely big first step right but admitting it is yeah like they say it's just a step you know there's a lot of more does many more steps right yeah if he doesn't address it therapy is good that he's working through his problems but chances are if he doesn't address it he will find destructive in toxic ways of of acting out so to speak right and not to make excuses for this guy but the it's like maybe the these interactions with these women are just like it's it's scratching an itch that he sometimes is scratching through gambling or drinking or whatever but until he really addresses the problem the root problem yeah this this acting out it will be a very it will be a challenge for him probably yeah I mean that's what I'm terrified of with the wedding coming up of just like how is this gonna manifest and he didn't tell his therapist about the gambling even though it was actively happening while he was in individual therapy and he didn't tell his other therapist about the cheating even though he was actively cheating for multiple months so like that's where it's challenging of like it is great that he's willing to go to therapy and at first he wasn't even willing to go to therapy or well just the panic attacks were happening like he didn't want to go to therapy and he didn't want to take medicine and ultimately he came around to both of those things and is glad that he started both of those things because it has helped with the panic attacks and the mental health issues but yeah it is concerning that like therapy or just cutting out drinking completely aren't necessarily like the actual solving everything and so it just scares me of what this is going to turn into and I need to have patients like he's only had three individual therapy sessions we are still living with family so him getting a second job him going to AA or like taking things more seriously is made more challenging by that but yeah it's just hard to be patient while he works through things when we do have like this deadline coming up but I feel like I need to be patient but it's just been really really challenging. Yeah it's listen it's a tough situation you're in I don't have a good answer for you um you will just have you will have to make that decision on your own his I see it now with this wedding four months away obviously you can leave the relationship right now that's option one you clearly don't want to do that you know totally get why right and so option one leave them option two post spell in the wedding I'm guessing that's not ideal because that you would probably lose some money there objectively speaking whatever money you would lose by delaying the wedding might be more than worth it for a lot of reasons yeah it's not about the money it's more that we'd have to tell every single one of our guests and excuse and like that just feels like post like hitting the nuclear button of having to tell everyone in our lives everything that's happening maybe but if you get divorced you're gonna have to do that too yeah that's true we're talking about the rest of your lives potentially I mean you can always get divorced but like you know this relationship is at a point where no matter how it ends if it were to end it's gonna be devastating for you on some level and you're gonna have to work through it and you will and you'll be okay and plenty of people have survived and and worked through relationships ending and marriages ending and things like that you will be okay right but I think when it comes to the situation you're in you just have to really be pragmatic and honest with how things are gonna play out long term right totally get that delaying away and it's not ideal but objectively it's probably the most reasonable option in terms of okay if the worst thing I have to do is tell all our guests that this wedding isn't happening right now and they can gossip and they can question you can decide who is is privy to the actual truth and who of your guests you're just like hey it's just not happening right now you know talk behind your back whatever you guys deal with it it's not the end of the world people gossip all the time and then you guys can you know if this is if this is a relationship that's really worth fighting for and investing in the only people who really need to care are the two of you right and if if you're both thinking about each other and for each other then it makes a lot of sense to say now's not the time to put this added pressure of a marriage on this relationship that's already fragile you have a lot of work to do we have a lot of work to do this is a lot of pressure um a marriage is is not going to help this situation right now I mean that probably is the smartest decision but I totally get if you don't want to do that all right option three move forward with the wedding get the prenup do all the unsexy things to protect yourself knowing that I'm going to fucking do this I'm going to get married to this guy I love him he's a great guy with a lot of problems but he's my guy and I want to fight for this relationship and then you're just going to have to mentally accept the fact that I'm going to say it yes and there's a 50 50 chance at some day I'm going to say yeah I was I was married once I'm divorced I'm you know we when I first got engaged a long time ago and then it didn't work out that that that stigma I felt of a failed engagement right that you know we if if if you're divorced you feel like society puts a stigma on you if you have a failed relationship if you get cheated on all these like social stigmas that we attach and and judge ourselves and and feeling like the world's talking about us and all these things you know it it's more bullshit than reality but it still affects us right and it's a mental hurdle we have to get through if you say I do you need to mentally tell yourself and accept the risk you're taking I've said some version of this before in different shows I'm a big believer in taking risk I'm sitting here talking with you today because I've taken some risks in my life you know I kind of had to tell myself if I'm going to do this I can't play the victim when it doesn't work out I'm choosing to do this I'm accepting the risks you know I am owning my choices to say yes to something that like you know has some red flags but I'm going to do it anyways and that you know oh and that I think in that mindset I honestly think it's important for us to all take we have to take some risks in life we have to bet on ourselves and we have to be willing for things to not work out and if it doesn't work out we have to pick ourselves up move forward and the easiest way to do that is to not sit in the kind of this victim mindset of like how could this happen to me I can't believe this happened to me it's not fair he wronged me here he did this and he did that and that's fucked up and I don't deserve that all of which can be true but it's not going to do you any good in that moment to sit in that and feel sorry for yourself and I guess since you are in this position knowing that there's a risk it's just kind of accepting the risk you take so that if it doesn't work out you don't go why did I do that that was so dumb of me I should have been foolish I sort of listened to people no you made a choice you knew what the risks were you didn't listen to you know maybe it was me or maybe you have a friend who's like don't do it don't don't marry the guy and you know you didn't listen so what you don't beat yourself up two years from now by telling yourself you should have done this and you should have done that you just have to own your choices and move the fuck forward you know what I'm saying so if you do say yes to this guy I just want you to just own your choice and let that you know and fight and do what you can for the relationship and do your part you know and if it doesn't work out you know again easier said than done and all these emotions I'm telling you to try not to feel you will feel it will just be those you'll go to therapy and you'll remind yourself you know what I'm sad it sucks I don't deserve this but hey I didn't make a choice it is what it is I'm going to move forward and I'm not going to just sit there and feel sorry for myself for six months or whatever it is I'm just it fucking sucks but whatever you know and if you do say yes I think it's important for you to have to have the little bit of that mindset so it sounds like on the positive side you feel like he at a minimum wants to fight for you and he can acknowledge his faults he it you know he is going to therapy certainly not perfect he could be more honest with this therapist he is doing he's doing he's he's not you know I'm sure you've listened to show and talked to a lot of people especially women where it's just like yeah he won't go to therapy he won't do this since it's like well I mean he's giving you no options like your partner is working with you a little bit he's he's you know and he's doing enough to give you enough hope which can be a little bit dangerous but at least there's something to work with right yeah so to me those are your kind of three choices is this helpful yeah no it's helpful it's my sister who's the only one that I've told about this kind of said the same thing about like your life's not over if you do choose to end it now or your life is not over if you delay it and if delaying it is going to give you the best chance at moving forward like you need to consider kind of all of your options and she was the one who suggested the prenup to which I hadn't really thought about so I do yeah I like luckily he has agreed to the prenup like everything that I've asked of him he's willing to do and I know that he wants to fight for it he just has this tendency for kind of self sabotage and making bad decisions which is what he needs to work through but it's something that's very challenging and I'm not going to know if he has worked through it until kind of like temptation yeah like he comes across his plate again so that's just where it's challenging to like be patient and trust the process to work through it but no I do think I need to make sure that I'm thinking about myself and all of this too and I think that that attitude going into a marriage where I need to make sure that I'm considering the risks and continuing to fight for it and that'll be okay on the other side no matter what happens yeah I mean listen I'm glad you have empathy for him I'm glad that you have patients for him but just make sure that the I self sabotage is I feel as almost become a trope or an excuse for people okay fine you self sabotage do something about it you know he can do something about it and he has to want to do something about it and he can heal his past traumas if he really wants to but he has to really want to do it for himself yeah I'm glad he's motivated by the relationship and I'm glad he's noted that he doesn't want to hurt you but the other day not hurting you won't be enough he has to want to do it for himself yes I want to not be that person and you have to find out what that line is about like not allowing it to be an excuse you know and I guess between now in four months you I think you have to have some very direct and tough conversations with him about like where you stand and that while you do want to fight for it and you do want to believe in him that he hasn't really giving you much to work with and if you do decide to move forward this wedding he has to understand he hasn't earned your trust and he has to be okay with the fact that you know this person doesn't trust me and he doesn't get to act like a victim to be like whoa it's like how can you not trust me you know it's just like it's not fair and don't you understand what I've gone through and you know my family and this and that and all might be true but like that's it's not fair for him to dump that all on you you know he has to want to do it for himself and you have to be able to have these tough conversations that are going to sound very unromantic and and make him feel like you don't trust him and he has to be at least understanding as to why you don't and be willing to bet on himself it's like an it's a weird thing because that and that's why maybe delaying the wedding is probably taking all feelings aside the smartest thing because marrying him under the conditions that you are is just a huge leap of faith you know it's you're you're basically going on love is blind and getting married after six weeks and hoping for the best and it can work out you never know but if it doesn't you're gonna you know for the people who go on love is blind and get married you know if it doesn't work out and they get divorced they it's pretty easy for them to go well you know they went on a show and probably wasn't the smartest thing to do that but hey I took a risk whatever it didn't work out and they blame it on the show and and rightfully so and they kind of you know and in a way you almost have to have that mindset that like you took a huge leap of faith but you did it in yolo whatever and I'm gonna move forward and so you just have to decide which which of those three choices is best for you but just protect yourself and do everything you can so that if you do say I do you know that the only thing you have to worry about is your connection at least have this conversation now when you know he wants to fight for the relationship and if during that pre-nub process things get uglier and he fights back and he is resistant and he plays the victim I think you really need to pay attention to that and maybe that will be a sign that maybe this marriage shouldn't happen does that make sense yeah and he really needs to accept the role he's played and to why you would be having these conversations and saying these kind of things that will be hard for him to hear and accept four months leading up to your wedding yeah so I'm glad he says the right things he needs to start doing the right things and showing you and you need to I think hold them a little bit more kind of a thing you are and be a little less forgiving and a little less understanding of his shortcomings yeah no I think that that's probably true all right well thank you this was yeah this was helpful okay well good luck I'm sorry you're in this position it's definitely not an easy choice that you have to make no matter what you're gonna be okay I want you to know that and just you know you have a lot of great things going for yourself you're an independent woman you're taking care of yourself you know you're gonna be okay you have a lot of things going for you and just remember that when you're going through this process and and you know somehow some way things will work out maybe just not the way you expect or want them to yeah all right well thank you well keep us posted on on what you decide we'll do thank you take care thanks well if you are like me and looking for a refresh for your house like I constantly am head over to article article 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involved so I feel like it's a little bit biased tell me the story okay so just a little backstory my husband has a friend group that has been friends for over 20 years they're all a little bit older than me they're in their later 30s so they've been friends for 20 something years and now they are all married and have kids so we now have a group of girls each associated with each friend one of his friends which is one of his best friends this actually goes back quite a bit but it boiled up this past summer so his best friend this was about two and a half years ago I like most millennials I love boom ring selfies they're going to take in boom ring selfies so my thing I like to do is like I'll take a boom ring selfie of like cheers in my glass of wine also a wine lover so I did that I did like a boom ring selfie I was in my pajamas but like totally innocent it was mainly like neck up and I posted it on my story and then I received a reply to that story from his best friend and he said damn girl you look good so I was thrown off by that a little bit his best friend said that yes and mind you it's a very large friend group so there are some of the boys in the friend group that I am closer to than others but him and I just don't have that kind of relationship together so it was a little weird what did you do immediately after that I showed my husband I was sitting right next to him okay and also this was nine or ten o'clock at night so I feel like that makes it a little more weird in my mind I was like maybe he's drinking because that's a weird thing either way it's weird but yes the best thing you did in that moment was immediately show your husband like yes yeah okay yes so I show it to him and he goes hmm well that's weird and he sits on it for like a couple seconds and he's like actually that's really weird and I don't think I like that and I didn't like it either it made me feel weird which is why I showed it to him so then after that I screenshot it and I sent it to two of the girls in the group that I was close with and I was just like hey I got this message response and I feel like it's weird and am I overthinking it trying to get other people's opinions and they agree they're like no 100% that's a weird thing how much conversation do your husband have about his feelings about this and your feelings about this before you screenshot it and reached and and included two other people in the group not it was it was within like the first 10 minutes we discussed it so I you know without knowing anything else yes you know the first thing you did amazing that's what I would have done right thing to do 10 minutes later I feel like that was a huge mistake because then now it just becomes gossip yep and now you aren't basically allowing other people to control the narrative and you and your husband at that point haven't even had a chance to fully digest what just happened at the potential betrayal of his friend how you're both feeling this is a weird thing that happens and it's weird right your husband no doubt probably had a million questions why do my friend do this this is probably a guy he's been friends with for a long time never thought he would do this not that he not that you know you could have done you know but it's this human nature to go well did you know like did you do something you know it's just you know like it's just a normal a million questions just normally come up right and you guys didn't really have a chance yes as a buried couple to talk that through and just get on the same page to know that I don't know why this happened yeah we're good we both think it's fucked up and what are we gonna do to address this discomfort that just happened in our friend group yes and you are like yo girls I was I'm such a chronic overshare yeah so yes I did and I I seek validation and that's kind of why I did it sure but you know it's really important you know I don't probably don't need me saying this but you're married you know and it really needs to come from your partner and it really needs to be you too and it's you know I do think all married couples to some degree need to have a it's us versus the world in a way yes you know we have each others back and even if our closest friends fail us like his friend failed him we have each others back and we really need to protect that you know and I think it's really important to have that mindset in situations like this because things obviously can spiral it sounds like they did spiral so anyways you told the girls yes what happened after that so I tell the girls um they again they agree and it goes we did the issue my husband and I talk talk about it and we decide you know it's weird but like he's never done anything like this so and we just we're not comfortable with confrontation in that way so we decided we're just gonna brush it off and we are gonna try to move on from it and as far as I know the girls they didn't say anything at all so and you're you your husband and discuss the possibility of him addressing his friend not really um because again I'm not going to with confrontation um that's something I've worked on and he's even worse and I he doesn't like to that's something we struggle actually with our own marriage is like confronting each other right so he doesn't like to confront me he doesn't especially like to confront anybody else and I was kind of on board with like okay well if you don't want to talk about it like then I won't talk about it like you know and I mean not bringing it up I do I can tell you right now if we just hung up the phone yeah if I said all right I gotta go I don't have any more time for you but I want I want you to do this one thing I think it's amazing that you can you you can recognize this shortcoming you have and that your husband has and that you have together and in this moment you guys enable each other to allow your weaknesses to take over you got neither of you helped each other out neither of you held each other accountable you're both bad at it right yeah but you do have each other and then in those moments where you have each other that's where like that marriage part comes in where you say hey we got it we got a suck at the fuck up and we got to do this and I know it's hard babe if you want to say hey that was fucked up I don't even I don't even know yeah I don't need to know why you did it you did it and I shouldn't need to explain to my friend how fucked up that is and if we just decide as a married couple going forward to say no we've got our friend anymore that's a choice yeah I don't want to confront them I don't need to confront them I don't there's no explanation he's gonna give me that makes me go you know what no no harm no foul that was a choice but you guys made a choice of being like yeah it's weird I don't really want to confront them so let's just pretend it didn't happen yeah but meanwhile you both know what happened yeah you're both sitting with it and the next time he's gonna see his friend it's gonna trigger questions and feelings yeah right from that point forward you guys run the risk of not being connected and on the same page yeah I'm 3% okay so anyways you didn't address it okay yes so time passes and over the past like two years there's been other comments here and there nothing to that gravity nothing to where we were like we were kind of like again we were like that's weird this happened two years ago this happened two years ago okay but it just came to it ahead this past summer yes so time passes things random comments pop up here and there but this past summer in the end of July we did like a big birthday party beer Olympics with all of our friends for my birthday and one of the other boys birthdays and I'm with the friend and one of our one of my girlfriends and he makes this comment and it just made me feel uncomfortable he made another comment yes it was just weird so he said I really love that lipstick color on you and it just threw me because it was just so it felt like a weird thing to say I don't it just threw me so I told him about it I was just okay yeah so I told my husband about it I just like he made this comment about my lipstick like I just like it just made me feel weird the way like it came out and he was like okay again like weird whatever and I thought after I just told him we're good whatever so then my sister comes up to me during the party and she says oh your husband came up asking me about some lipstick comment and that was a red flag for me because my husband doesn't like to talk to people about things so in my head I'm like oh no he must be more upset than I thought about this comment his friend commented about your lipstick you told your husband then what happened and then after I told my husband he goes up to my sister and tells my sister about it your husband yes my husband tells my sister about it what did he say he well he at he was my sister and the rest of our team because we had teams with colors and the two other people that were in our team actually aren't in our friend group they're separate friends from of me and my sister it was my sister our girlfriend and then our girlfriend husband and he said how would you feel if someone said this to your wife and then repeated the comment that that I love that lipstick color on you and he was like oh I think that would be kind of weird he just felt off about it so he brought it to their tension so once I found out that he told my sister about it my mind starts going so I'm assuming he's more upset than I thought because he's like a bull my husband does not like to share any personal information to people even as close as friends sometimes I even have to drive things out of him so I was a little worried I was like oh no like he's actually maybe upset about this so I make the mistake going to my friend that I had sent the original screenshot of the original comment to I see you're sitting by yourself and I I tell her I'm you know my husband I had this comment that was said to me my husband does not is upset by it I just found out you told my sister about it and again trying to see validation somewhere as to like what I feel like the gravity of it should be I guess I was I made I know I made the mistake there right so I tell her about it at this point in the night again we're out of beer and I drink almost an entire 24 pack of solsters within the first two hours were there by this point of the night I don't remember I don't remember most of what the conversations I had were I cannot tell you verbatim what what I said in most of these conversations to the point where and this is just from what I'm being told after the fact that I I told her which I did but then one of our other friends who was not aware of any of this information at all and none of the backstory she's also very close to the friend um she comes up and apparently I stopped talking when she came up but my friend that knew about it was kind of egging me on to tell her and she was like so you're really not gonna tell her right now like you got to tell her you're not gonna tell her so then I told her I don't have any recollection of this but I believe it if she said I said it right so she she tells her the rest of the night completely fine the rest of night is normal you would never know anything any comment made was made we're all just having fun enjoying our party cut to a week later we have a girl strip and we do a girl strip every year in August this is the weekend after the party me and my sister and one of our other girls again not involved in any of this we go like half a day later than the rest of the girls so we're going by ourselves to the girl strip we're it's like a two hour drive the whole time I'm getting like a uncomfortable feeling I just feel like something's off and I don't know what it is we show up to the house and again the they're not well first we show up to the house and they're not there and they knew we were coming who's they the the rest of the girls this includes the girls that knew about true the history the girl that just found out and the wife of the friend who has no idea about any of the comments so we get there and they're not there they're at the pool so we're instantly we're like okay well that's weird because they knew we were coming and the three of us were in agreement the vibes are off something's weird and I'm an idiot because I had no idea it would have been anything about the past weekend and the party and things that were set so the weekend a day and a half goes by again everything's fine but like something feels off and the wife of the friend is like cold shouldering me hard and I'm I had no I in my mind I'm like I have no idea why I really I do I do I mean how about how how how yeah yeah more so how yeah and but it didn't in in my head I'm I'm asking you how how did I not register before you I because in my mind I I told two people I don't remember the one I told but I remember telling the girl that already knew the information and in my mind she never said anything about what I centered two years ago so in my head I was like okay like she wouldn't wouldn't do that because why would she want to do that sure I literally I had no idea idiot I'm an idiot and also I was very hammered at that party so like have the people I talk to I don't remember I'm assuming the next day after that incident you and your husband didn't really talk about what happened now when we talk about like the comments he more so it's just brings it back up and then it's like I really don't like that and then it kind of goes that again I'm always in a place of like well these are your friends right I kind of got married into it so like whatever you feel comfortable doing is what week will do so we just did it and tried to okay all right so now you're getting the cold shoulder from wife I'm getting cold shoulder from wife don't know what's going on one of the mornings were there I wake up and it's the wife and she asks so she can talk to me outside still I have no idea what we're going to about to talk about no idea no idea I I tell you 100% the thing about this friend group is we all have things with each other there's so many of us that maybe don't like a certain person have issues with a certain person and what we do is we talk to each other about it we did it and then we move on yeah so we thought right which is why I had no I had no worry about it because I was like well I told her and two years ago and she didn't say anything so why would she say something now well it turns out it was the friend that knew nothing about any of it that I was told that I told at the party the friend that yeah who hurt it's like a hand yes it was her that ended up telling the wife going to the wife and the husband and telling them about it so again I get pulled to a conversation and I'm in my head I'm like I don't know what this is about but this is weird but it started to make sense because I'm like she's been giving me a cold shoulder so something's going on so what did she say to you she starts conversation with so I hear you're running a map you're a mouth about my husband and trying to tell everyone he's a creep so instantly I felt defensive because I was like whoa whoa whoa like that is not at all how I portrayed it whatsoever I repeated comments but I wasn't like he's a creep he's I never said he I never verbatim said he's hitting when me I just said these were comments that were made that are weird yeah fair enough so which happened yes so she's angry so I'm and I'm called off court because again what did you but what did in what do you remember exactly what you said I mean she's angry but obviously she's she probably doesn't even know what she's angry at and it's just easy to take it out on you and she's hearing it from other people so she doesn't really know yeah so she tells you that and I'm kind of like whoa whoa whoa I was like that is not at all the situation I said I was like this is what happened and I repeat to her all the way back to the screenshot from the story that you replied to which I offered to show but she was actually already shown that screenshot before she talked with me so she was showing the screenshot yes so while me and my sister and our other girlfriend were traveling to the girls weekend the rest of the girls were telling the wife about everything showing her the screenshot like going back the two years which I they must have gone back through the messages which years ago and her response to that was I heard you're running your mouth about my husband and calling him a creep and she's like oh I saw the screenshot and she didn't I got angry because it was more of like okay so you don't care that he's saying weird comments to me but you more so care about how he's being portrayed yeah which I mean obviously I shouldn't have said anything to other people and I didn't I owned up to that but the root of the issue is he's saying things he shouldn't be saying to another woman right yeah so how did that get resolved we talked about it all we like I let her know like I wasn't trying to start drama I was like I told our friend two years ago about it after the comment was made at the party I went up to that same friend specifically that same friend because I knew she was one of the only people who already knew about it and I told her about it well the wife doesn't like this friend so that also caused an issue too they have their interest instead of issues it's a whole mix of things so in this conversation I still was didn't know that it was the friend that jumped into the Congo that had said anything I assumed it was the friend I told you years ago and I kind of irrelevant but yeah so well she knows that that's what I thought right but I I'm just curious what did the wife how did it things end when you spoke your truth and you were just like yeah I wasn't my intention but nevertheless this happened and this happened both of which made me feel a little uncomfortable and maybe I didn't handle it the best way but I did feel uncomfortable and I obviously communicated that to my husband I told a couple friends maybe I could have handled that better or differently nevertheless it did happen yeah and it did make me feel uncomfortable I'm assuming you communicated that I did okay and then and what was her response to that her response was I would hope you would know he would never try to intentionally do anything like that he we actually found out about this a few days ago he's been eaten up by it so upset okay mate which made me feel bad right I was sure okay I was never mind-tension and then that's a fair response by her giving your acknowledgement that you didn't handle it the best in most productive way yes but that still doesn't make you the bad guy but anyway so like what are where did we go from here so from here we have our conversation it's we seem to have talked it out like we we seem fine in that moment but then there's the element of well now I have another problem which is my friend going out of her way to now expose this information that my husband and I weren't comfortable telling yet obviously we weren't probably going to tell it anyway if we've been sitting on the one thing for two years so there comes that issue right I'm thinking it's my friend I told you years ago so we finished the rest of our day we had planned on going out on the town and day drinking which is terrible idea because I was very angry at this other friend it all blows up so I'm kind of given her the cold shoulder the rest of the day and then I guess while we're drinking I start saying like making comments towards her or something and then it gets exposed that she was not the one who said anything it was it was the friend that came late to the party that I was shocked by because I don't remember telling her and I would have had no idea so it ended in me and my sister packing our stuff up and leaving because it was a pretty explosive fight we all ended up getting into we've been drinking all day everyone's mad at everyone everyone has their own version everyone has their own truth everyone feels like they didn't do anything wrong and everyone's mad yes okay so explosive fight we leave and we don't talk to anybody for like two months okay me and my husband did you I was assuming you told your husband about the drama oh yes I called him during all of it what was his response he was just trying to get me to calm down because I was very upset he wasn't really happy either that the information got out especially from like who got out by because in my head you're sitting on this for two years why are you now all of a sudden bringing it up but I've had a couple instances with this friend anyway we've had a really rocky relationship so it felt kind of like I was being targeted by her and she kind of it felt like she was manipulating this whole situation to have it blow up in this way is how it felt for me so I was not happy about it he was not happy about it and they were all they all made it seem like it wasn't a big deal like the girls were telling the wife we don't understand why she would do this he has sisters like he would never do anything like this which was crazy to me but he did do it right I mean I don't know what his intentions were but yeah what he did by most people standards is inappropriate yeah yeah I know it's inappropriate and everyone I talked to is like yeah and they agreed and I agree too this conversation started being like hey my my husband's best friend flirted with me and I'm the bad guy I didn't I didn't ask I kind of assumed that you were the bad guy to your husband but it doesn't sound like that's the case now who are you the bad guy to and what are you trying to resolve and figure out to my friends the wife who ate me now okay fucker I mean who cares there's a third that was also involved that news about the screenshot and stuff and then the three other girlfriends that told her the wife about it so you're the bad guy to everyone all these girls like you've lost all your friends kind of thing kind of which all of them not all I mean I don't we don't really talk anymore which of these friends before this drama all started I'm assuming you were closer with some of these people than others you know your sisters involved you got your best friend then you have these other women you're kind of friends with you have this wife who is like you know we're friends like but like I only know her because she's married in my best friend's husband right so I which which of these friends that were truly your the friendships that yeah matter to you are actually affected the wife she was in my wedding like we were that close oh okay she was your okay she was our friendship kind of like I wouldn't take group part of her time but I think because of like I don't know maybe the comments and stuff and just it other various things so her who else I was close with the other two girls at one point in time but and who the the other two girls are the first ones you told yes so the two girls that you told two years ago about this who had the screenshots they're mad at you no I'm out of them you're mad at them okay fair enough yes okay but who are you the bad like the person you're the bad guy too that you're you know you called in for advice why am I the bad guy to yeah who are the so the wife who else well I would say the two friends too because they portrayed the story as if I was the villain in the story as if I was like out of line for saying anything because she came at me so angrily that in my head I'm like okay well they must have told her a different version of the story then what I why why they said that I was at the party basically running around telling everybody about it like hyping it up they thought that my husband was going to beat up his best friend because of how I was like I did the two girls that you initially told you two years ago are saying all this yes okay um and telling her about it and have you had any sidebar conversations with these two friends so I did right after the incident happened and we left the trip and I came home I messaged them the next day and I just said hey like I understand like why like if she's at because it was told that she was asked them to tell her this which is why they told right she said I need to know more information like asked questions they were answering the questions portraying it a little differently than it was but they were giving and I said hey I understand like if she's asked you questions like that fine I said but I like I'm hurt that this came out and not from me or my husband I'm hurt that you guys told my story and what they said okay with that they apologize and we left it off on good news I'm a very forgiving person so and I don't like trauma and I'm I try to step outside and always think okay if I had someone's wife coming up to me asking me these questions like I would probably do the same thing so I wasn't mad at them for that like I understood where they came from but I wanted to let them like like I felt blindsided by it all right sure but I guess from the point you you sidebarred with them you you spoke your piece and you said we were kind of fine at that point they're like they understood you were coming from you felt like yes okay and then what what happened after that so about a month after that I and I still haven't talked to the wife for the husband we decide that they're gonna come to my house and have a conversation just me my husband the best friend and the wife they come to our house and we have conversation yeah and that's where I find out about things I don't remember from the night of the party because she's telling me the things that she had been told like what that I was giddy about the idea that my husband would be mad at his best friend and that they could possibly fight which is crazy and what was your response to that that's crazy and I told her I said listen I was barely drunk that night I was like I might have been animated in my storytelling but there's no way that I would have ever been a championing for them to be in a fight that's not my M.O. and did you say some version of like listen I you know listen again I was drunk I can't sit there and tell you what I did it didn't do because I don't remember it seems like you said out of character for me to do it doesn't sound like I did but if I did if I even gave that impression at anyone I'm sorry because what I can recognize is that I probably could have handled this situation better but like this all started because something inappropriate happened whether his intentions were I don't know what his intentions were but like did they ever really just own that so I would say the husband was a lot more forgiving and understanding of this that you were what even forgiving did he own like did he own like he was more understanding of where I was coming from he didn't take it as me trying to like defame his character did he ever apologize to your husband one he did he did okay he said I apologize if I it was more so than apology of like I'm sorry it came across that way you know what I mean like it was more so it wasn't apology but also I think they were more so just worried about his character and trying to fix that that's how it felt to me because it was a lot of like they definitely apologized but then it would backtrack to various other things like he asked me if because the time that he had messaged me I was proposed part of and he asked me well when this happened was around the time that you had the baby kind of insinuating that maybe my hormone he's blaming he's blaming your hormones that's crazy like he asked me that and I it was things like that so it was like there'd be an apology but then there'd be like comments like that so then it left off in a weird spot of like we're we're okay but there's definitely still underlying things you know what I mean yeah and I did apologize for my part because I said listen I 100% know I realized I shouldn't have told anybody like totally understand that and their thing was more so who I told versus like telling because I told someone they're not very fond of so how did that end we ended by just agreeing to kind of let bygones be like ons we talked through it all like he apologized for his part I apologize for my part obviously the wife didn't have anything to apologize for right and my husband either and that kind of just ended like okay we're kind of kind of move forward from this how is your husband's friendship with his friend these days it's definitely different okay they still talk but they definitely don't talk as much or hang out as much as they used to and we've been to two group events since and they were very awkward more so towards me and my sister because my sister kind of I guess I don't want to say like banded with me but she kind of kept her distance from some of them too yeah my back yeah so it's been kind of awkward the wife she won't even we actually so we have kids that are friends with each other which makes it a little more weird and difficult because they're very close like cousins basically so she won't even message me if like she wants my kids to come over or like if her kids want to hang out my kids she won't even message me she will go right to my husband like she won't really talk to me it's just awkward energy so like obviously she's upset how long ago was this conversation between the two couples it was in September it felt like it was kind of like a bandaid on it you know what I mean and then and that kind of brings us to present day so to speak yes what can I help you with I just wanted to get another perspective kind of like obviously I know where I was in the wrong but it feels like because it's still lingering that I keep questioning I'm like if I'm a terrible person or not I just I don't know and I don't know where like where I should go like if I should try to salvage these friendships or I don't I feel kind of betrayed in a way too because I feel like people taking something that made me feel uncomfortable and then announcing it and telling their version of it really didn't hit me the wrong way and now that they're acting like I'm the bad one because I yeah basically it felt like like they were saying that I'm like stirring drama and trying to just start drama right and for me it's not that yeah all right so a couple of things my short and very direct unimpathetic answer is you all kind of need to grow up there's a cold reality as you get older you know your circles get smaller right yeah because you and your husband have your life together you have your children you guys I'm sure face challenges every day and your kids bring home challenges and maybe it's just the flu or maybe it's money problems or maybe it's just like you know your kids something's happened at school and you know you all have your own shit six years ago it was just like I got my boyfriend and we have friends we all go out we go drink and you guys are kind of in this kind of transitional period in your life where you're still able and wanting to like still like you know get the girls trip single out and have fun and do some of the same activities y'all did when you're in college together you know and and things like that and for the most part you guys have been able to continue to do this all while all of you are growing up and having real world shit to deal with and problems that the you know marriages and kids all these things that come into play that that are a higher priority than just the trivialness of everyone's feelings of awkwardness and discomfort and things like that yeah and I think more than anything you just need to like let bygones be bygones this drama happened but right now you're still kind of stuck in the drama of worrying about what everyone thinks about you yeah I am you know and you've recognized early in this conversation that you're bad with conflict and that your husband's bad with conflict that is what's caused all of this yeah you and your husband didn't get on the same page and you and your husband didn't address as a couple how this situation made you feel and you two didn't address as a couple how you guys were going to move forward as a united front being knowing that you are on the same page you probably should have encouraged your husband at that point to talk to his friend in a way that wasn't aggressive but just be like yo what's up with that you know that didn't include the girls gossiping you know and like yeah you're mad at your friends and they definitely could have done something differently but like you you know like what do you what did you expect you know that this is what people do when it comes to drama it's a silly drama right and none of it really really matters and you I guess you just have to decide which of these relationships are really meaningful and important yeah I hope the answer is well the only one is really meaningful is my relationship with my husband yeah you know and I love having my friends and my friends are important but at the end of the day I got my kids I got my husband that's all that really matters you know and friends come and go and you guys will continue to make more friends as your kids grow up and go to different schools and join activities you will make other friends through their friends right now you are dictating who your kids are friends with you're like hey our friends have a kid around the same age so you guys are going to be friends in a way right it's like you said cut you referred to cousins right it's like well you know my siblings have have kids right around the same age as my daughter they're they're going to have a relationship because they're related right how much they really like each other do you really become friends after that time will only tell right but you are dictating who your kids are friends with as your kids get older and they go to school they will start dictating who your friends with right you know when our daughter goes to school she's going to be like oh I'm friends with so and so and then be like all right do you want to and then we'll meet their parents and then we'll decide oh they're cool yeah we should invite them over for dinner we should go hang out you know so like yeah that's going to happen and your friendships will continue to evolve especially and hopefully as long as your kids in your husband and your family is really the only priority and that's not to say that you can't be a good friend it's not to say you can't show up for friends when they need you the days in which you woke up and called up your friend and was like what are we going to do today are over in my 20s even when I had a girlfriend me and my buddies had like this mad internament that was like a big deal to me and it was like my Christmas morning and I fucking loved it and I missed it and I think about those times this is a great time in my life but like you know I had the luxury of only having a girlfriend and I could care about something as stupid as a maddened video game tournament among friends and that was my world you know yeah that's not my world anymore I don't have time for that shit you know yeah there are days would be like I'd be fun to do but like yeah not over like being a good dad or a support of husband and like I just don't have the energy or time for other people's bullshit I don't have time for it and you guys have a little bit of time for that you and and and and instead of choosing not to protect the drama you lean into the drama yeah um this was kind of my wake up call of of that right I think this was kind of my moment of okay maybe I do need to take a step back because we spent a lot of time together with this group like we were seeing each other almost weekly that's how it was a lot and I did find like removing myself from a lot of that I actually felt like a weight was lifted I had more space up here to think about other things you know what I mean when you just saying all of that really hearing it from somebody else like puts it into perspective right like because you're right my husband and my kids that's my priority what do I have time else for like what little time I have right I appreciate that I'm glad that this is helpful I really think you and your husband need to address the fact that you're both bad at conflict which means no doubt that when you you and your husband feel conflict between each other you guys probably have a way of ignoring it and letting it go and letting it fester and not address it and that's something you guys need to work on because it's some day it will affect you too yeah you know you have to get better at just opening up and talking about it and maybe it's it's cool you do you guys do couples therapy no we've talked about it but we've never like get the gun and and maybe it could just be like listen I don't think we need couples therapy because but like we're not good at this and honestly like this whole situation has been stressed we don't need and and I really think it wasn't my fault he sent me this you know yeah you didn't do really anything wrong but yeah we as a couple I think it'd be good for you guys to recognize we didn't help ourselves out the best we didn't as a couple come together to make sure that this situation didn't bubble up to the way it did yeah and you guys just didn't sit down as a couple to say like what are we gonna do as a couple how how let's us get into our feelings and again sometimes a good couple therapist can help with that because listen like because you know marriages are hard and like when you're both stressed it's really easy to be even as a married couple to just being your thoughts and you know a lot of this said without being said you know and it's hard to open up and you recognize your husband's not good at that and you're not good at that so it's hard for you to get your husband to be good at that when you're not good at yourself yeah so as a couple acknowledging that and saying we could both use some help because if nothing else I just don't want this stupid bullshit to come between us and the next time this happens I just want us to be better at us communicating our feelings because the only that really matters is that we're on the same page that we feel connected that when we feel a little rattled by something that happens that maybe that's outside of our control it doesn't come between us and if we have to address somebody or something we are good at just talking about it first and making sure on the same page and then encouraging each other to the thing that we know we're not good at which is like hey I think you need to talk to him and let's just try to like do what we can to make sure that doesn't blow up it doesn't sound like you were deliberately messy it was just yeah you didn't know what to do you didn't know how to talk to your husband about it so you told your friends you recognize you need some validation all you need to know is that your husband knows that you didn't do anything the only validation you should really need is from your husband not again that's in a perfect world and it is important to have friendships and you know I'm not saying don't have friends but yeah so going forward I think you need to stop worrying about whatever one thinks about you and this friend group and then really slow down obviously you have your sister in your closest friends and then as far as the relationships that you hope to mend you probably can mend but it's going to take a little time yeah you know and if your husband really wants to build back his relationship with his friend he's going to have to work through that conflict he's going to have to ask him get a beer with him and be like yellow dude I know that was all fucking weird but like again just between me and you yeah yeah I'm sorry man like I thought that was a little fucked up that you questioned my wife's you know hormone like again I don't know what the reason and I don't I don't think you maybe have the wrong intentions but you need to recognize that like that's just weird you don't do that you know yeah but again it's up to your husband try to address that but he has to get better at conflict and he needs that support from you but like it you know at the end of the day maybe he's just like I don't know man like we were friends I mean my closest friends that I grew up with I'm still lifelong friends we I don't know we we don't talk every day we don't talk every week yeah I don't have time you know I got shit going on um yeah and I think that will be the new norm and then when it comes the relationships that really matter you guys will just have to figure out what you have to do to solve those relationships while at the same time recognizing there's only so much you should do because at the end of the day none of these friendships are really like they don't matter in a way yeah no I think that's what I'm struggling with right the drinking buddies yeah honestly that's pretty much what we do when we get together so yeah you know that's the thing you recognize that what what is why are we friends well we're friends because we're someone to go on trips with people go out to bars with have a good time game night these are all fun yeah don't get me wrong but are they necessary are they important do they feed our souls you know that they help us be better parents do they help us be better partners with each other a lot of the answers are no yeah you know so when when those answers become no and then it causes more disconnect and drama than it does just fun then you realize that maybe that we've outgrown that part of our life I mean there's a certain part of reality that you maybe that's just the answer is that this drama made you guys recognize that like the times in which we all all we did was have fun with our friends and drink and have a good time they life's a little more complicated for you guys now yeah yeah no I agree I think I've been figuring that out at hearing it from someone else that has no association it hits harder you know I mean you say not definitely 100% well this was helpful it was your priority as your family your priority is your husband and I encourage you and your husband to acknowledge that you guys have a lot of work to do when it comes to conflict resolution and if you don't it will affect your relationship at some point yeah and being proactive and getting the help of someone like a couple's therapists who can help you guys work through that while you're not experiencing some great disconnect is a really great time to address that weakness that you both have yeah definitely cool keep us posted and how things play out we'd love to hear it definitely thank you so much my pleasure take care you tell thank you all right bye bye