Michael Barbaro

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Shop the La Roche-Posay Mella B3 range of boots in store at boots.com or via the Boots app. You may not know that aside from having the most iconic fleet in ocean travel, Cunard's Four Queens also host a remarkable cast of extraordinary people. So after a morning spent relaxing, there are talks, classes, perhaps even lunch by the pool with the leading lights of literature, culture, fashion and theatre. Then when evening falls, feel the ship come alive as stages are set for glittering garlands and the most prestigious performances at sea. Why cruise when you can Cunard? I'm Ina Garten. I love to invite interesting people to my house for good food, great conversation and lots of fun. My friend, the incredible journalist and podcaster, Michael Barbaro from The Daily, is joining me for a wonderful day at the barn. I'm welcoming him with spicy hermit bars, with ginger and molasses, their flavors he loves. And he's sharing stories of his amazing life and journalism. I was thrust in front of a microphone in the only space that The New York Times was willing to give. A utility closet. A utility closet on the 16th floor. Then he's making his signature old fashioned cocktail. Yum. And I'm showing him my updated chicken marbella that's perfect for easy entertaining. You're the perfect guest. I am? You are. Ha ha ha ha. I met my friend Michael Barbaro about a year ago. He came to the barn to record an episode of The Daily about Thanksgiving. We had such a good time together. I understand he likes ginger and molasses and I thought, I'm gonna make him my spicy hermit bars. You're welcome. So I've got butter and sugar in the mixer. I'm just gonna add one egg. It needs to be room temperature. Okay, next I'm gonna add molasses about a quarter of a cup. Hermit bars are kind of like ginger cookies, but in a bar shape. And I finish them with a rum glaze, which is so good. Okay, next the dry ingredients. I'm gonna combine them and add them to the mixer. So first I'll put two cups plus two tablespoons of all-purpose flour in a sieve along with two teaspoons of baking soda. Then to amp up the flavor, two teaspoons of ground ginger, one and a half teaspoons of ground cinnamon, and the last spice, one and a half teaspoons of ground cloves. Finally, I'll add half a teaspoon of kosher salt. This just makes sure there are no lumps in the mixture. Next, I'll turn the mixer on low and slowly add the dry ingredients to the butter, sugar, and molasses, mixing just until they're combined. That's perfect. Smells so good. You can really smell the ginger. Gonna add raisins. I add golden raisins. I just think they have great flavor. And minced crystallized ginger. Okay, that's it. And now I'm gonna just chill the whole thing in the bowl for 30 minutes. Okay, this looks good. And it smells incredible. And while that chills, let me tell you about Michael Barbaro. He's amazing. Michael Barbaro is an award-winning journalist and co-host of the New York Times' wildly popular podcast, The Daily. He grew up in Connecticut and was always destined for a career in journalism, from delivering papers with his sister Tracy as a kid to writing for his high school newspaper before heading to Yale to study history where he was editor-in-chief of the Yale Daily News. After college, he was a reporter for The Washington Post, then moved to the New York Times, becoming a political correspondent and host of The Runup, a podcast about the 2016 presidential race. The following year, he and three colleagues, including Lisa Tobin, his future wife, created The Daily, a podcast about the biggest news stories of our time. I'm Michael Barbaro, and this is The Daily. It's become one of the world's most downloaded podcasts listened to by 4 million people every day, winning many prestigious awards, including the Spotify Gold Milestone Award for surpassing 500 million streams. Michael co-hosts the show and is famous for his distinctive staccato speaking style and incredible journalism. He lives in Brooklyn with Lisa and their two children where he loves to entertain. I can't wait to see him again. I just love him. Okay, so the dough is chilled 30 minutes, and I'm gonna cut it in two. Okay, I'm gonna roll each one into a log about 12 inches long. It's interesting, they go on the baking pan round and when they bake, they flatten out a little bit. You'll see. Okay, that's a log. One log. And the second one. And now into the oven, 375 degrees for 20 minutes. They'll still be soft in the middle. So good. So the hermit bars are baked and see how they spread out the way I said? And I'll show you how I drizzle them. So I've got a cup of confectioner's sugar and two tablespoons of rum, but if you don't wanna use rum, you can always use little maple syrup, just kind of back and forth like that. They look so much better like this, don't they? It doesn't have to be perfect. You want them to look very homemade. And they are. Okay, and then the last thing I'm gonna do to give them extra flavor is a little bit of lemon zest at the end, just right on top. And then when the icing is set, I'm gonna cut them into bars. So these are gonna be all ready when Michael gets here. Hope he likes them. If he doesn't, he's never invited back. I am en route to Hina's house. She has asked me to be her guest. And when I got that call, time stopped, the earth stopped rotating because so deep is my love for Hina Garten, but there's frankly nothing I wouldn't do to. Frankly, just make her happy. Oh my goodness. The perfect shrubs, the perfect purple dolly is. Stunning. I feel like if Hina has taught me anything, it's had to be a good guest. And so I'm gonna wait my feet. Hina. I'm so happy to see you. I'm so happy to see you. Oh. This isn't a thing no one knows about you, but should. You give the best hug in the entire business. Oh, you do. It's infused with love. It is, it's meant. So the last time you were here, we did Thanksgiving for your show. Yes. It was a little hard hitting news. It was a different kind of episode of our show. So how do you decide how many hard hitting shows you do and how many fun ones? What's the balance? I'd say we have an internal barometer that says the news, which is our craft day in, day out, has gotten too difficult, too depressing. And then we pause and we say it's time to do something different. We call up Hina Garten. We come to the barn and we talk about the art of entertaining. And our listeners say that is exactly what I needed. It was really fun. It was delightful. So I understand that you like ginger and molasses. I do. So I made hermit bars. Oh, they're beautiful. Is it a childhood memory? It is, because for me, ginger and molasses are ginger snaps. And ginger snaps are the taste of childhood. I'm gonna dunk. Okay. That's gorgeous. My very elevated ginger snap. 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We are London Business School, where rigorous thinking meets real world impact. We accelerate transformation for organizations, preparing leaders to navigate complexity with confidence, not just to lead, but to define the future. London Business School. See what we can do for your organization at london.edu. I'm here with Michael Barbaro, who is my absolutely favorite interviewer. I can't believe I'm interviewing you. I can't believe you're interviewing me. So you started on the Washington Post and then you were on the New York Times. How did the daily come to you? The daily came to a few of us in late 2016. You may remember what happened that year. There was a seismic electoral event in this country. Donald Trump becomes president. A lot of us kind of missed that this was a big event. That this was going to be happening. And we said, let's try something new. Let's try to tell the story of the daily news in a fundamentally different way. And for us, that medium was a podcast. So the daily started in 2017 with just four people. Four of us. Take me into the room, if you would say. That is how I would say it. Well, there were four of us. And these four people have a pretty radical vision. They're going to take the day's news and they're going to turn it into one immersive, rollicking, in-depth, sound-rich story that is going to make the news this 360-degree audio experience unlike anything that really anybody had ever heard before. Now, as a print reporter, thrust in front of a microphone in the only space that the New York Times was willing to give this fledgling podcast, which was a utility closet on the 16th floor. In Siberia. In the middle of nowhere. And that's what any reasonable company does when they have no idea if what you're about to start has any chance of success. And we got really lucky because it did succeed. It worked out okay. It worked out okay. How do you think about a story for the podcast differently than you did as a reporter? I think when you come through the ranks as a print journalist in the traditional media, you think of telling a story as beginning with the most important piece of information and descending from there into less and less important information. When you're telling an audio story, it's very, very different. We need to draw you into a story. We want to keep you there the whole time. Keeping you there and propelling you forward. And so maybe that means we need a character. Maybe the entire story is going to be a single character's journey from beginning to end. So you really understand it from the human point of view. And from the ground. Yeah. That's fabulous. How did you develop your unique cadence when you're interviewing somebody? I understand it had something to do with your grandfather. My Jewish grandfather was quite exacting when it came to how I, his grandson, could speak. Oh, how interesting. And when we sat across from each other at the table or were on the phone, he would criticize any utterance I used that fills the space, such as, you know, or like. If I were to say those things, he would pause and say, no, I don't know. Like what, Michael? And slowly but surely he knocked those phrases and the whole idea of filling space in a sentence out of me. And so I take these rather long pauses and I speak in a way that's like a car swerving down the road, trying to avoid saying those things. And it's produced a somewhat unique form of speaking that people notice. Okay. Moving along. This is the very first time on a roundtable that we can really talk about early voting. Well, thanks to your grandfather. Sometimes the things that are really annoying turned out to be good. I don't wish this particular dynamic on another person, but I'm glad that it happened to me. Any mistakes along the way that you wish you would avoid it? Let me offer you a rather personal response to this. I think when you make something new and you're working what feels like 24 hours a day. Probably because it was 24 hours a day. Because it was 24 hours a day. It's hard to be a good friend. It's hard to be a good sibling, a good son. And so the regrets I have are all around the sacrifices that you have to make when you're building something new. You let people down. Yeah. It's hard. You need to have people who really understand this is important. Yes. So for years everybody knew what you sounded like, but in the past few years people have found out what you look like. How does it feel to be so well known when you're walking down the street? Well, I should ask you that. It's strange and wonderful. There's a thing that happens on the New York City subway and I'll have my earbuds in and I'll be sitting across from somebody else and they'll have their earbuds in and then they will take their phone and show me it and there will be the icon of the daily. They'll just say I'm listening. And they may not say anything. And I almost want to cry. And it's very meaningful, but almost no words were exchanged. And I think there's something about the show we've made and the medium we're in. It's a private, personal experience of consuming the news and so I love that kind of encounter. So what's a perfect day to you? You just wake up in the morning and you say this is going to be a great day. A perfect day for me is a very tall cup of coffee with extra oat milk. The Game of Tennis, an episode of Mad Men, a romp around the neighborhood playground with either of my two children. Tends to go better when they're separated. And then an old-fashioned cocktail. That sounds good. You love to cook. I do. Who taught you how to cook? My mother and my father. My father hails from a long Italian tradition of, you know, someone standing in front of the stove. In my dad's case with a cigarette out of her mouth. Making a pasta sauce on Sunday with meatballs for a family supper. So your father was Italian and your mother was Jewish? My mother was Jewish. So you have both of those traditions? Both of those strong-willed, emotional, and pretty rich culinary traditions in both cases. Definitely. And we sat down as a family every night, and we had dinner, and we talked about the food a fair amount. So do you want to cook together? Absolutely. What can I show you? Something that I can make on a Saturday night when six people somehow end up in my house. And then my children will leave. How about chicken marbella, which you marinate the day before, leave it in there for a drink, and then just throw it in the oven. It's great for dinner parties. Sounds perfect. And will you show me a cocktail? And a garden always needs a cocktail. I am going to make you an old-fashioned. I am a connoisseur of this cocktail. It's the only cocktail I really ought to make. That sounds good. It's going to be perfect. Okay, let's go cook. I'm here with Michael Barbaro, and we're going to make chicken marbella, which is so great for entertaining. And apparently requires 20 pounds of garlic. It does. Okay, you ready? I am. So the first thing we need is olive oil. It's right there, and vinegar. So it's really like making a vinaigrette, right into the bowl. Okay, these are the preparations for our chicken. Yeah, exactly. Okay, next is good red wine vinegar. And then I'm going to put in a lot of pitted prunes. And lots of... Do you want to taste one? Yeah. They're pitted olives, green olives. I use churro and yolo, but whatever you can find, that's really good. Aren't they good? They're delicious. I know I'm going to love this dish already because we're pairing meat and fruit. I love them together. And those two are meant to be friends. So this is 3 1⁄2 ounces of capers. The next thing is an incredible amount of dried oregano. And what I generally do with oregano is I like to just kind of put it through my hands like that, and it really releases the oils. So it really tastes like... Mm-hmm. It really makes a difference, doesn't it, rather than just dumping it in. Okay, and here's the coup de gras. It's 1 1⁄2 heads of garlic, which I've already peeled and chopped really finely. And what's amazing is when it cooks with the chicken, it kind of gets sweet. You would think it would be incredibly garlicky, and it's actually not. Yeah, this is a rather unconventional assemblage. Isn't it? Yes. Isn't it unusual? And it's so good. It's just crazy. Okay, now I have to season it. So do you want to put in two tablespoons of salt? Seems like a lot. That is an unafraid volume. Two tablespoons. Two tablespoons. Perfectly measured. I need to perform some dramatic flair here. Excellent. Very well done. And two teaspoons of pepper. Wow, this smells really good. Doesn't it smell good? Yes. And then bay leaves. And this is where you want fresh bay leaves, instead of bay leaves that have been sitting in the drawer forever. These are from the grocery store. Put them in a hole. Just put them in a hole. Okay, so that's the mixture. And now I'm going to put chicken in. And it's two chickens that have been cut up. Just cut up in quarters. You want to do it too? I absolutely am going to help you. Okay, fantastic. All right, are we going in? Yes. We're going to toss this. Just like myself up for this. Clean hands are cooks best tools. Are you going to do it? Okay, great. That's how you mix it up, and you really know that it's well mixed. Wow. Okay, I think we have to wash our hands. Yes. Okay, so this is going to marinate for six hours, ideally for 24. So I'm going to put it in the fridge. May I? Yep. So you take that one out. Yep, the miracle of preparation. And it's all going to go in this huge roasting pan. So I'm going to start. So what I do is I take each piece and put it in the pan. Skin side up. I love how the capers are embedded in the chicken. I know. It really gets you. You can see that it's gotten into the meat. And then all of that just goes right on top of it. Perfect. Okay, next I put brown sugar on top. Just sprinkle it over. Oh, that's going to bring some nice flavor. Yeah, it's salty, and it's caramelized, and it's delicious. I need salt and pepper and a little white wine. But I don't pour it on top of it. I just pour it around the cup. So you're not taking the elements off the chicken. You're right. You're leaving the chicken. Perfect. Okay, into the oven, 350 degrees for 50 minutes. Okay, can I get the oven door? Yeah. Okay. It's a lot of chicken. Perfect. And while that bakes, I think we need a cocktail, don't you? Oh, absolutely. I think anytime an oven door opens or closes, the refrigerator door opens, goes to the front door. And then I put the chicken in the oven. And then I put the chicken in the oven. And then I put the chicken in the oven. 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This is going to turn into just like a really thick little paste. We're going to do about two ounces per each of one of these drinks. This is very professional. Of delicious small batch bourbon. You can use whiskey, you can use rye. And then we're going to put some ice in it. I'm going to stir and a wise friend of mine once told me, it was you. It was me? That minimum 30 seconds. 30 seconds and it's longer than you think. It's much longer than you think and it brings the right amount of coldness to the drink, but it also waters it down. Exactly. So it's not like pure alcohol. If you don't mind, I'm going to finally ask you to do some work here. Okay. And peel two slices of orange, two slices of lemon. Each one of these drinks is going to have one each. Oh, I like that. Yeah. Going to get double citrus. Okay. Okay. Two one and two. That is at least 30 seconds. I think you need more ice in these cups. Yes, that's cold, but I want this to stay cold. I think we're still in a warm drink. Now we're going to give each one of these a cherry because it looks gorgeous. And tastes good too. Tastes fantastic. And I was a kid, my father used to give us the cherry out of his whiskey sour, so we all like cherries. So how we all learn to drink. Pour this in. And then a last thing we're going to do right before you put the twist on is, we're going to hit this with a little bit of nice club soda and I don't think it dilutes it. I think it makes it more tolerable and it means you could possibly have a second. That works. So now I'm going to put lemon and orange on each one. Okay. Little lemon around like this. Okay. And then dump it in. Drop it in. Drop it in. Okay. No pretension. Little lemon. It's hard not to look nice when you're a little piece of lemon or orange or glass. Yeah, it actually looks great, doesn't it? Did we do it? Shall we? Cheers. Let's try it. I want a barro. And a garden. Yum. That's just perfect. It is. So I think we need a little chicken marbeille with this, don't you? Yes I do. Should we see how it is? Okay. So it's been resting for 10 or 15 minutes. I think that's enough for the two of us. I think it's going to be enough for the two of us. And I think we just need to try a piece. All right. I'm going to go in for my favorite piece of chicken, which is a thigh. Oh, okay great. I think I'm doing the same thing. Yeah, I got a little bit of everything. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. That was terrific. Isn't that great? No, it's very, very elegant. I actually like the Alice. I think the Alice are particularly good. I'm going back in for the prune. Unexpectedly. You nailed it. How did you get that? It was very, very amazing. Cheers. Cheers. Mr. Q. Winning. Losing. Mr. Q. Casino. That's just part of the game. Want to always win? Play a vending machine. You win. You love Q. You lose. You hate Q. Mr. Q. The casino you love to hate. 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