Wendy's "Vanilla" Shakeup: Let's Get Bolder & Back on Top

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Wendy's is stuck squarely in the middle of the fast-food landscape. There's no wapper. They have fewer locations. They're not the cheapest. What are they? There's a lot riding on that question. Because right now, things are not so hot. But not to worry, we're on it. Your fearless fixes are going to get Wendy's out of the middle and put them back on top. And we're going to bring in some help. Our guest today is Paul Tuscano, former Chief Digital Officer at KFCUS, where he led one of the largest and most complex digital transformations in the fast-food and QSR category. Under Paul's leadership, KFC accelerated digital growth, rebuilt its UX organization, launched a wildly successful loyalty program, with over 7 million members and a lot more. Before that, Paul spent nearly a decade transforming Marriots, mobile, and on-site digital products. He's also held major roles at Verizon. When it comes to customer experience, digital transformation, and how legacy brands reinvent themselves, which we'll need today, Paul has seen it all. So, fixing Wendy should be a piece of cake, but we'll have to see. Paul, welcome to the show. Tell us more about yourself. Hey, thanks for having me. I've been in the QSR industry for two years. So not very long in terms of tenure when it compared to some of my peers. But before that, I was at Marriots where I ran also the food and beverage business there in terms of digital experiences. So when it came to like table reservations at a restaurant, room service in our hotels, was managing that, the software experiences there. So yeah, so I have a lot of experience with guest experiences where it comes to digital and what we like to call digital nowadays, I used to physical and digital world, how do you merge those together using the digital to stay relevant, to get people into the restaurants, right? And then whether it be promotions or just some catchy social media gimmick to get them in and get the attention, right? To get them top of mind. So there's come things that play like marketing elements, but then ultimately once we get them in the door, right? Then I rely on my peer group to kind of like operations, staffing, training, and then obviously making sure we have a great menu that people want and just keep coming back for. So it takes a team and I had a great team of KFC. I think we were in the middle of a pretty decent turnaround. So I'm excited to take close to the topic. Nice. Thanks so much, Paula. You've got the right ingredients to join us today. So it's great to have you here before we really get going. Kadeera, pilot on what exactly is going on with Wendy's absolutely. Yeah, and I think we have to pause and acknowledge that this moment with Wendy's has been building for years and understand what's happening to do. We have to go back to where Wendy started. So we all know Dave Thomas. Wendy's was founded in 1969 by Dave in Columbus, Ohio with really one simple idea. And that was fresh, high quality burgers made with never frozen beef. And that commitment to freshness that they made, it wasn't just about marketing. It was really their brand's DNA. So Aaron, you mentioned the square patties, but it was also open kitchens. Quality is our recipe. Everything that they did reinforce this feeling that Wendy's wasn't trying to be the cheapest fast food option. Now they were trying to be better than what was out there. And over time, they built this reputation as the sharper, slightly more premium alternative in the fast food space. So they branched out early. If you recall, they were out there with salads and baked potatoes and chili and breakfast. I'm hungry. And let's not forget, Aaron, you mentioned that snarky social media. Again, I always say give that team a raise that provided them with so much cultural currency. It really set the tone for an entire generation of brand personality, but that cultural cloud doesn't automatically turn into sales. And that's really where the positioning problem starts. If you think about the burger landscape today, right, McDonald's owned the value lane. They've got low prices. They've got global, you know, ubiquity, you know, they're dominant convenience. And then at the other end, there's the restaurants like Shake Shack and five guys and, you know, these fast casual players that own the premium quality lane. So they're talking about better ingredients and higher prices, but if they're giving you a more elevated experience. And Wendy's is sitting somewhere in between. Their prices are nearly identical to McDonald's, but they're not perceived as a true value option. And then at the same time, they're not premium enough to stand shoulder to shoulder with a Shake Shack or a five guys. And that's where strategists, you know, call this kind of being stuck in the middle where it's too expensive to want on price, not differentiated enough to want on quality. And that identity tension only gets sharper when you look at the menu. So if you ask someone, what is Wendy's hero item? The single product that kind of defines the brand, the closest answer you'll probably get is the frosty. Now look, do not come for the frosty. I love a frosty. It is a beloved icon for sure, but it's not exactly the kind of flagship menu item that's going to anchor, you know, this massive strategic comeback that they need, right. They don't have a big Mac. They don't have a WAPER. They don't have, you know, a Chick-fil-A chicken sandwich and an assaturated market when they don't when you don't have a clear menu identity that that's going to become a problem. So Wendy's is fighting back. They're responding, right. They are launching one of the biggest transformation efforts in its history. And it's an initiative internally called project fresh and project fresh is a full reside of the business. So they're closing, you know, roughly 300 under performing stores in the US. They're renovating. They're re franchising. They're going to be investing heavily in AI and other technology. They're rethinking their brand positioning to be clear. This is a full rebuild. Wendy's is trying to reclaim the lane that it wants owned. And so what we want to talk about on this episode is, how does a legacy brand like Wendy's get out of the middle of its category. What does that actually look like and can this project fresh plan help Wendy's escape the middle and build a lane of its own. I think it's important to also kind of just point out that like this is not just a story about Wendy's the whole fast food industry should be paying attention, right. Because this is about really what happens when a legacy brand tries to evolve in a market that's being pulled apart from both the top and the bottom. And the tough choices that I think all of the fast food restaurants are going to need to start to make to stay relevant. So this is a biggie. If we're up for it, let's get into it and fix this one. Well, let's let's say what we're here to fix first off and you cadera wonderful summary and getting us to this point. Thank you. Dave Thomas, you know, was not a boardroom guy in the traditional sense. He was a roll up your sleeves and greet the customer and transparency in the kitchen and get it done. Do you look me a Wendy's today. Is it representative of the founder who's been gone for a while now or we have a first off have a straight from 1969 origins or is it the same company at its core and it's just out of step like what foundation. What foundation. What are we dealing with. I think you bring up a really good point because I think it is like a crisis in identity, right. Cadera, you brought up a couple things here like pick a lane. What's your lane. What do you do decide you want to do. And I think that because the world of let's just focus on the burgers, the burger world is so saturated in all different ways that their challenge is not just McDonald's right like many McDonald's is the least of their worries. Well, it's not true. But let's just say that that they've got the cult favorite in and out. They've got Smash Burger five guys all the things that you talked about is that elevated. I guess it is it's elevated in price for sure like you've seen online where people are like I door dashed. Smash burgers and it was $59 for you to let back and they're like freaking out about that. They're like a burger and shake what. So I do feel like it's a crisis of brand and identity as well. And so like to just I mean, I know that they're going through this phase approach of like thinking about this very carefully, but like I kind of challenge a company when they say, well, we're going to try to efficiency and cost and things like that is like are you serious like how much less can you charge right like without like sacrificing the taste or sacrificing all the things that you're going to do. I'm just sacrificing all the things and I have you know, I was telling I was saying earlier I kind of this is a top topic for me because I have wonderful memories of high school east to go to Wendy's late night and our buddies worked there and the frosties with Frank fries, you know and like sitting there at you know 12 midnight and you know getting in trouble and stuff like that. I don't think the idea of Wendy's but I don't think for example, my children who are now all older have ever even been in a Wendy's which is kind of sad to me and so like I you know I love this idea of refreshing their brand but at the same time I'm like, you know how like everything old is new again I'm like wondering like maybe they need to go back to vintage like a vintage Wendy's and be like bring back that like. You know because like now stranger things all those things you know all those shows everything's like a 90's 80's thing vibe you know like what if they like pair down their menu what what if they thought about those things and thought about like what what were we known for and how do we go back there because. Like all the fast we places I mean Paul you can talk about KFC but like when you see like all the things on the menu these days like really like how do you how how does a franchise owner actually provide quality with like that huge menu and then be asked to like run this business as like tightly as possible you know I just feel like the margins are there and I feel like. You know closing a few of the low performers is one thing but like now you've lost trust with your franchise owners as well. Yeah and I think I think that's a really good point I mean speaking of you know is the restaurant. You know who it was when Dave first opened it you know in the 60's I think they have a choice to make I think Melissa that's really good point pick a lane they have a choice to make you know maybe they build on or continue to type you know double down and stay true to the values the day first introduced. But then they also can evolve at the same time and you know kind of step into this a. Age and what needs to happen to make sure that they're partnering successfully in communities with their franchises and all the things so I don't necessarily think that they have to. Like pick or choose you know whether they're going to kind of you know bring Dave into you know who the restaurant needs to be today I think that they can pick and again that might be things like values for example I think. The other thing that's really important you know we talk about a brand like Wendy's or any of these other fast food restaurant. That have grown beyond just one or two stores in one town is really thinking about what culture needs to look like across the franchise right we're talking about hundreds thousands of stores in the US outside of the US and I think it's important to remember like culture doesn't have to be identical at every store that's why you hire people. Local to the community there's going to be those local touches eating at a Wendy's in Chicago might feel a little bit different than in Des Moines right but I think what the customer is expecting is going to be that Wendy's vibe so we we've talked about like you know their bull personality and snarky does. Is that something that you experience you know at every restaurant that you're like yeah I like that I can dig that is it friendly service is a clean dining rooms is it food made. The way that the brand promises that's how you show that culture that might be how again you're bringing the restaurant from 1969 into present day it's not easy right to get all of these franchises on the same page because it you know to use like. I would compare this to like you're basically trying to up to manage an entire league not just a single team to get there but it's doable and y'all know me in playbooks right like. I think Wendy's as the brand is headquarters can set the the playbook so again what does that look like that looks like values looks like training it looks like standard it looks like expectations it looks like even incentivizing your people your franchise is and your employees in those stores to make it happen you know because when I am having an experience at a Wendy's for example i'm not thinking about headquarters i'm thinking about the restaurant 10 minutes up the street for me. I'm giving me my fries high every single time it's the people who are going the extra mile to get my order right so again the execution has to be local that's really where you're going to experience the culture and consistency of the restaurant. I think we're saying hits exactly so a lot of the doesn't matter what restaurant is everything you talk to it's like it has to be consistent right but as we're talking about this honestly i haven't given Wendy's a thought in a long time and we have one like in our town center and but as we're talking about Dave Thomas like everything that he represented if it actually reminds me of chick filet today. Like when you go into a chick filet and the quality of service i never actually knew the guy but the commercials as a kid i was like wow that's like a really nice guy and i'd love to go to you at a Wendy's because of him and that's the sentiment that chick filet creates for their customers and they just go back i mean because look we did the whole chicken analysis we have all these competitors when you think about the hot and fresh definitely they spot on right they've got the volumes to be able to pump out like quality chicken all the time that's never sitting. So chick filet but the chicken itself isn't that much better than churches or raising canes or even even k of c for that matter right so the quality of the food definitely matters but then there's the experience that the staff gives right and that it's restaurants always clean they're very friendly very welcoming you want to go back right and the efforts that they make in terms of recruiting and the types of people they recruit and how they're going to be able to do that. So the quality manage the the location because it's a pseudo franchise isch model right it's like there's clear ownership all the way down to the kid who's like bringing the drink to your table right they they know their job they know they have to please and and it's and it's hard I mean it's especially with the minimum wages it's hard to you know get that commitment from those employees to do that every day all the time right at high pressure like for these a lot of them are young young people and then you've got a lot of. You know newly immigrants that are in in the country they're working at these places so how do you maintain that quality of service that just keeps a positive right so it gives a positive association for people to have them keep coming back right so that's once you get them in the door you just got to be able to keep them and I think it's all about the operations and staffing that makes makes a difference. Yeah I love that idea of building that experience so that it's one that you want to share with others you want to come back you know all the things Paul I'd like to ask you specifically just because of your expertise is how do you use embedded tech and even AI to a certain extent in these models to help turn around. It's a food industry Titan like when these even now KFC still kind of making their changes and we've got you know we got a huge parent company like young who's providing a lot of the new tech and you probably seen some of the what they were for to his bite a whole suite of products. at the core of it. So introducing that to our brands and then ultimately to our franchisees, it all comes out of cost by the way. So the investment is definitely needed. And there's opportunities to improve a lot of these operational elements, right? So that the folks don't have the burden of having to deal with at least in our case, like how much do I have to prepare of XYZ based on demand, right? So there's more predictive models, right? So you're not overwhelming your staff, because let's keep in mind, staffing is really hard around. It's hard to find people. So you're running with smaller staff, turnovers really high. So to keep having to retrain people and then also maintain that positivity that you need for your customers. So trying to reduce their burden of the work that they have to do with technology is what we're trying to do. But you know, some of it, there's only so much we can do, right? A lot of it ends up being just doing with the customer. And then also, you know, the other part of it is just making sure you have a sharp menu that people want. Yeah, you know, one of the things I was trying to remember about like why Wendy's was different than MacGoneless, for example, at the time, and I'm sure it is today too, but Wendy's was like the customizable burger, right? Fast food burger, where I don't know if you remember early on like McDonald's, like if you hold them, you didn't want onions on your burger, it was like, no, sorry, that's not going to happen. You're going to have to take them off yourself. So I feel like that's when's really well into like the these kiosks and like the tech world where, you know, like I know there's a local burger joint that we like to go to. And they give you a piece of paper and they have all the things on there, right? Like onions, lettuce, tomato, mayo, ketchup, you know, pickles, hot pets, whatever. And you just check, right? And so like, that would be like kind of a cool fun experience going in. And then the thing that would make it so nice is that it's personalized. So it is attached to your account and your app. So that the next time you come in, it says, is this what you want the junior chief burger with this, this, and this? Or would you like something else, right? You know what I mean? And so like kind of creating that feeling of like, you know, to fall to your point of this like really personalized experience that makes you feel like, oh, I'm going home. Could you? All right. Like I'm going home. They always know I want to chocolate frosty and I want extra hot fries. And I, you know, all the things, right? And so I think that that's an opportunity for them to lean into that too. Where, you know, you kind of see in a lot of different industries when we talk about transformational branding of a legacy brand like some of the tech and AI and some of some of those things, those are table stakes now, right? Like everybody has those kiosk, right? How do you make it different? And maybe the difference is you've got snarky windy there. Like what's taking you so long to side just, you know, like, you know, whatever you want, you know, that personality, or it's really that inviting. It's, you know, AI generated day, right? And he's like, welcome. I'm so excited to see you again, friend. And like, you know what I mean? And so like, you can kind of choose your personality or you deal with. And I mean, I think there's a lot of opportunity there. But I think Wendy's has to understand that some of the things that they're moving towards are not necessarily that different than what you find other places. So they're going to have to figure out how do they make it different, right? The text of the you mentioned is table stakes. Like everybody has that like the menu, the personalization. Now the real thing is is kind of the recommendation because we want you to like, we always want to increase your basket size, right? So I want to be able to recommend things. And we want to like, especially when you talk about like, hey, you've got a complicated menu or a big menu we were talking about earlier. It's like, hey, how do you put that in front of the customer? Right? How do you take that, you know, the bottom of the menu item that like people just need to discover, right? That could be your superstar, but you can't, it just remains too big, right? So there's these opportunities with tech and AI to understand what your flavor profile is and then appropriately recommend, right? So that's definitely the opportunity. And that's that takes the data. You got to be able to harvest the data to be able to present that kind of stuff and apply the AI. So that's that's kind of what a lot of people are going to be struggling with is the quality of their data. What do they have? Do they have the loyalty program that's been tracking all this stuff for you? So you can really personalize the experience because otherwise everything else is going to be the same. Like every or doesn't matter where you go, it's like, hey, you know, personalize, you know, customize your burger, all that stuff, everybody has it, right? Now it's like truly, how can I recommend something for you? And then not only that, but the great opportunity with this is when you think about your menu strategy and what you're going to introduce because all these limited time offers. Hey, I wanted to partnership with Frank's hot or, you know, Mike's hot honey. Like that, this information that you have of your customers and you see their flavor profiles will let you lead you to all these different partnerships potentially, right? Or new flavors, right? So and that's truly, I mean, one of the things that we were looking at was like, Hey, how do you, what are the flavors that people really want? Right? And who are the, what should our kitchens be working on? Our innovation team should be working on to really differentiate us, you know, what to call this not churches, I was gonna say, Raising keens sauce, right? Like everybody tired of raising keens sauce. When we sauce they have, but it's like supposed to be amazing, right? Or the Chick-fil-A sauce, right? They're branded sauce. So what do we got to keep doing to understand that? And you know, when you do the multiple sauce things, you know what people are picking? You start learning their flavor profiles pretty quick. So when you launch like the jalapeno honey or something, you're like, Hey, you guys that like the suracha stuff come check this out, right? Yeah. I love that idea too, because I do also think we've talked about this before with Starbucks and other like in and out, like the secret menu, right? Like, you know, this is one of those opportunities where you get like, you know, this kind of viral thing going and then you feel special, you know, and there's FOMO like, oh, why did I not get the secret menu items? Like the jalapeno honey offer ye, right? You know, what I mean? My friend did, you know, and all of this kind of thing. And so I really feel like there's an opportunity there, but I do again, I feel like these are the kinds of things where just having a kiosk to your point, like that's everybody has kiosk, right? That's what you have to have, you know, or an app, you know? And like, it's not just about pushing coupons for free fries on Friday, which of course I do love from Alice, but it's about offering you a personalized, you know, menu item, right? And saying, hey, you know, and maybe for Katera, it would be like, hey, we're thinking about introducing, I know they're doing this, I think, frosties with, you know, Oreo cookie chunks or whatever they're trying to do. I mean, I don't know if they're trying to become dairy queen or what, but like Katera, would you like to try one for a dollar? That kind of thing. And you might be like, yeah, I'm trying to. Yeah, one day, one day says a secret menu too. So and that's tail, I call it a table stakes also. And you know, a lot of it is how high can you stack your burger and not ask to do with the customization side, but, but Paul, I like what you're saying about introducing novelty or, you know, something differentiating, but I think part of the problem is the, the QSR fast food industry gets together, you know, whoever the heads of secret committees and decides that spicy pickle is going to be the flavor of the year. And then you see it per percolate everywhere or, you know, Sriracha honey or whatever. And that's not a differentiator when everyone has it, you know, it's the same release at the same time. So do you want McDonald's version or do you want Wendy's version? Wendy's is not winning that battle. So can they create something outside of, you know, menu parity? That's going to say, look, we are ingredient focus, we're quality focused, we're experienced focus come to us. And we have this that no one else can replicate. They're not, they haven't done that. And they have die hard to have preference. So you like the frost, you better than a milkshake or a, you know, treat somewhere else. Great. People were right and die for Wendy's and whatever their, you know, their food of choice is there. But outside of that core committed shrinking was we see from the numbers, audience, what, you know, what can they, is it a technology? Certainly, like bring it up at least to part of everybody else that's going to keep them alive. But what's going to move them forward? That's what we're here to figure out. I mean, look, I definitely think like I think what we're all saying here, and you know, we talked about even in the intro is definitely they have to figure out what is their signature kind of menu item. Again, the frosty isn't going to carry it. Again, don't take it away, but it's not going to carry it. I love Melissa, your point about, you know, again, is it like I'm blanking on the term, but is it there's some way to kind of reintroduce Dave back into the brand? I think they should go all in on the snarkiness and personality that they have on social media. Like I would love to see them bring that from social media and online somehow into the stores. Now that may not mean that they're going to get all of the folks at the register to participate, but like how could they introduce that? How could they bring that experience there? Now we're kind of again talking about this is kind of the Wendy's vibe that I'm experiencing and I almost get a kick out of what I'm going for my burger. You all probably remember even I'm blanking on the actresses name. I remember there, where's the beef commercials? Right? My understanding is that made them so much money and drove sales and you know, got them recognized in such a big way. Like what is what's going to be that for them today? And again, I would argue it's their social media personality. Bring that into the restaurants. I think we would get such a kick out of it. I think it could be a game changer. And again, they already were kind of owning that from an online perspective. Why not bring it into the store somehow? I'm going to go then on the other side of this on one of the ways that I think also as a differentiator from a brand. Of course, I'm going to talk about social responsibility, right? I think that they have such an opportunity to hear, to break out and own something meaningful that may be their fast food competitors aren't doing or aren't doing as loudly. And that would be things around like ethical sourcing or fair labor, for example, right? Like think about if again, as a part of this whole project, fresh initiative, they're like, look, you can grab a quick burger. That's what we want, what you and our stores to do that. You can also feel good about how it was made. And we're going to be practical. We're not going to be preachy about it. But a part of our whole transformation plan, we want you to know that, you know, we're transparent in our supply chain for beef and produce. We're committed to living wages, you know, for the folks working in our stores. We are, you know, doubling down on sustainability and packaging. We're partnering with suppliers who are meeting really strict, you know, traceability and welfare standards. Like, especially now, customers in the general public love that. They would be all over it. And I think it's something that the competitor can't easily copy, you know, without really doing, right, without doing some work behind the scenes, right? Like you can't just kind of slap a tagline on on something and talk about supply chain and beef and produce. Like you got to walk that walk. You got to make operational changes in commitment. And so think about if Wendy's were to really lean in here as a part of this whole plan and say, okay, in addition to these, these three or four things we're doing in store, and this experience we're providing you, we also want to talk to you about ethical sourcing. Be consistent, show up with your receipts. That also could be a differentiator. And we'll play a big part in the transformation. I love it because it's also redefining fresh, right? Like it's, it's taking fresh and taking it to the nth degree and saying, this is what fresh means to us here at Wendy's. And like to your point, it would have all the names of where they're sourcing the beef where they're sourcing their lettuce, what all the different kinds of things. And I do think that that would be, you know, that's probably more engaging while somebody's waiting for their order versus watching a college or a high school kid slap a tomato on your burger and you're like, did they wash their hands? Like when was the last time they changed gloves, right? You know, like that kind of thing. So like, you know, there's this whole idea of like, fresh as if you can see it, but that's not necessarily true. I mean, I think all of you have been in places where you're watching them make your whatever burrito or sandwich and you're kind of like, oh, I don't know how to speak. Yeah, I'd rather not keep that, right? So that's, that would be a really cool visual, right? Like if they had like a running board or something like that or decals and made it feel fresh in in their actual where they are, I love that, you know, and even like testimonials, right? The ranchers saying thank you, right? You're calling their origin story. I mean, I think we were all inspired last week by the origin story from psionic and origin stories are important. Test customer testimonials, Paul, you know, this like, that's what gets you return customers, you know, coming back to a Marriott or coming back to wherever, you know, you're always to look for the like, how do I kind of align with whatever that story is? So I love that, because you're I think that's actually a really good point. Paul, you're no stranger to legacy brands and, you know, KFC famously brought the kernel back and as reached into the past to say we still have our past values and ethos and we're future forward and all the, you know, what's the balance? How do you help companies walk the line between the path tips to the past without being beholden to it and this digital transformation? I think one of the things and when we were initially looking at the whole plan, bringing the kernel back and how do we do it? And it's truly making sure that those values of days of past still line up with today, right? So, you know, seeking quality and the freshness of ingredients like he was notorious, right? Like there was a story about him going into a kitchen and he tasted the gravy and he was like, this is up the part and he actually pitched it like he threw it across the the kitchen. He was like, this can't be the standard and that's that value like everybody loves good food, right? So if you can prove that, hey, we care about consistency, quality and taste and that's what the kernel represents, right? So we've changed it from that kind of what it used to be like touring, touring country and being a Disney world and all that kind of stuff. So really focused on what made him quote unquote a chef, right? Is that discipline for quality? So that's what they brought back. I think there's, and I love the idea of bringing back to Thomas because in the same vein, because he represented like anybody of any Gen X or remembers like what he represented, right? So if you can bring that back because everybody loves love that, right? And as I said before, like Chick-fil-A is doing it very well and it's like disseminated into the entire culture of the company at every restaurant. So you can bring back someone like Dave Thomas and it still means a lot. Like what he represented is values that are still appreciated today. So you're just going to be able to leave in on that. Now what I think would be interesting is how do you do that? It's still have that, you know, what you were saying. So it's snarkiness in the social media and how does that marry together? And I was curious because I haven't seen any commercials from from Wendy's. I've seen there's social media stuff, but I haven't seen actually any commercials and it would be interesting to see some of that pull into their marketing, right? And then even their digital experiences. So it kind of all flows together. Obviously we still want everybody have a positive experience in the restaurant, right? Like Dave Thomas would have wanted. But just to attract them and get them engaging in, you know, the vibe of a blue and hip brand, that would be interesting. And for people that haven't been following, Wendy's has a very active social media following. They're very, I guess, reactionary in a good way. They call things in the way they see them. They're not afraid to be a little provocative and they get big reactions. And that at least on social, at least from, you know, being in the pulse of what's happening in the moment, they've got that part nailed. And what we're saying is it's not translating into being store environment, which is a little more passive and neutral and not, you know, I wouldn't say they take a stance in the in the story experience. Go for a Melissa. No, I was saying that like I was thinking of kind of a potential fix, you know, kind of piggybacking on what Paul mentioned about Dave is, you know, bringing back, you know, I'm all about the vintage thing about old Wendy's, you know, kind of thing as well as new and like bringing back Dave Thomas's signature menu items. Meaning this is like maybe it's, you know, it's his favorite burger with his favorite toppings, right, fries and a frosty or whatever hit whatever his go to meal was, right? And like saying, oh, you want a Dave's meal, right? That kind of thing. And then like you could have a Wendy's meal, you know, and Wendy's got jalapeno spicy chicken nuggets or whatever she's got, you know, and that would be kind of a fun way to kind of incorporate that as well. But I do think kind of bringing back that score value, because I think what we look at when we think about Dave is that he's he's the core, he's the foundation of Wendy's obviously. So like, how do you bring that back into the day to day, especially with like these really complex menus and all of the things? I think it's like almost like that simplicity, like signature simplicity and going back to basics is like a wonderful thing. I think that would be a great way for them to start. I love that. I love the idea of like Dave's favorite items. We all love nostalgia, right? Like until your point, Dave was just like, you thought of Dave, you thought of Wendy's, you thought of Wendy's, you thought of Dave. And so how cool would it be? Even if it's a campaign that they run, right? Again, this is a part of this transformation. I think that would be so cool. And they can figure out ways to weave in the snarkiness. Again, maybe that that does stay online, you know, the clapbacks and stuff like that. Maybe that's not in the restaurants that they do with their customers. And that's fine. But, you know, maybe the way to go is to bring Dave back. I think that would be phenomenal. I'm not picturing like a 50s diner where they throw straws at you and pop gum in your face. It's creating the right, you know, that whole immersive retro experience. But yeah, there can be something. We'll get to our fix in just a little bit. But there can be something about carrying over the socialist aesthetic into the story environment and bringing that to life. Again, not to the point of distraction. You're there, order a meal and get on with your day. But to make it, you can make it known. You're in a Wendy's. You know, if you took away the sign, you'd still know where you were. Yeah. And that's right. Well, here's a question to everybody. Like, so we're talking as I think we're all Gen Xers here, right? So we're talking about nostalgia and Dave, how do we, how does Wendy's make it relevant to the next generation who, who I'm clearly they want because that's that's the audience that's going to be buying the burgers. Because I know, I know I've kind of aged out of, you know, you know, say the seaword by cholesterol, heavy cholesterol food. So, so, you know, so we're not, we're no longer that ideal target market that's going to consume as much as they mean, you know, mean their customer base too. So, how do you like Dave relevant to that younger generation? Well, I'd say KFC did it. You know, the younger generation that Jen Alpha didn't have memories of the kernel back in the day and maybe never overlapped in real time. But you take the building blocks of the kernel and you put it out to a new audience and say, look, you may not know this about us, but here's who we are. They did it in a way that it connected and continues to connect. So, can Wendy's follow, you know, the same process? They probably could if they chose to go all in and say Dave's back. Yeah. And yeah, and I also think like you bring up a good point, Paul, is like we might have aged out of that. But at the same time, now we have children or we have a generation beneath that. And so, like they could even lean into that and say, you know, this is where your mom used to get her frosties. Like, you know what I mean? And do a promotion where it's like if I bring my kids, let's say they get a day's value meal, like some sort of, you know, or they get a Wendy's special taste sampler. Right? So that they get a chance to kind of hone into what is it that they were they're missing out on with Wendy's because I think that would be, I get what you're saying is that like it is a very crowded space. And like kids today, they're like, oh, I would rather get a Freddy's because I like the fries at Freddy's or whatever. And they have ice cream there or concrete there, you know, all the kinds of things. So I think that it is a challenge because Wendy's the competitive landscape is so full right now for them. It's not like when they started when it was just McDonald's, right? You know, and Burger King. It's like, now it's everything. Well, holy cow, we've got to fix the situation. We've got a lot of building blocks here though. So we've got transparency. We've got keep going with your digital transformation. That's the price of entry. So the key is the self service. Maybe make those shortcuts where you do want, you want Dave's meal. This is what Dave enjoyed. If this is your entry point, if you don't know what to order, shortcut to Dave's meal or Wendy's meal, which has some personality and synoditude to it, or maybe Aaron's meal where it remembers me and preconfigures it. And do I want Dave's meal or my meal? I want my meal without pickles this time. And mass customization at scale, they're all in on customization. Just keep that going and keep it to, you know, make sure that that experience, they're all about Dave's values experience. Make sure the experience is there. If we keep doing that, we keep valuing our workers, keep picking that bringing them into the experience that customers get when they walk in the door. Make sure that you know you're out of Wendy's and not some interchangeable could be anywhere kind of location. If we put all of those ingredients together and hand them over to Wendy's Melissa, or how did we do? Are we in a better spot? You know, I think we've uncovered a lot of opportunities for them. I don't know that we've actually fixed it. I feel like they've got so much to have to fix that I'm a little skeptical that they'll be able to get it totally right. But I love what we've come up with. I love like that signature simplicity going back to their core values, creating that personalized experience. I'd love to see them do that. And I think that if they do it well, people will be willing to pay a little more. So it's not just about being the value meal like the cheapest out there. So I do feel like that to me is very promising. All right. So we're part way there for you. Gidiaro, what do you say? I'm going to say yes. I think our fixes are solid. And again, I think they line up really well with the project fresh plan. So I'm really eager to see how this all turns out. I think that the key here for Wendy's is really around simplicity, which we've talked about and clarity more than anything. Just clarity around who are there as a brand, clarity around menu leadership. Again, what is going to be that signature and then you item or experience that they're going to provide clarity around value, whether that's reintroducing Dave and how his values transfer to today. Because again, I don't think they're that far apart. They might sound different or look different, but I think a lot of that they can still bring forward. I would definitely use clarity around purpose and use that as a differentiator. And we talked about some of the things that they could do from a CSR perspective that could be a big deal for them. And then finally, just clarity of the experience that I am going to have or a customer is going to have when I walk into it, I walk into one of the restaurants or stores. So I think it's doable. You got I'm optimistic. Thank you, Kadira. Paul, what do you think? Having gone through this, I know it is definitely a huge task and it's multiple variables that have to be almost addressed at the same time. But I think some of the things that we identified today, I think in terms of like the brand itself, I mean, I remember the food tasting good. I mean, it was always an alternative to make donals. And I think I even as a kid, I remember preferring Wendy's. It was just never conveniently accessible. So if they if they still maintain that, I think it's really a question of the marketing. Like they they got to really know who they are. They and I think they've departed from that. Like, you know, the values that Dave brought about the freshness. And I love what we talked to with the Kadira mentioned about what does it mean about freshness, right? And looking at the whole supply chain and eco-friendly practices and ethical food sourcing, like surely nobody does that well in the QSR space. I think chipotle might is kind of the closest and they've kind of that's kind of taken a back seat. But there is a huge opportunity in the burger space to be that brand that would champion that for that next generation who cares about that. Right? And if you make it a topic, so I definitely think there's an angle there. But obviously all that that comes with the cost because I know franchisees are looking at margins and you're talking about, hey, higher cost of meat because of its source this way and the food and paper costs. And so I get all that. And you got to appease the franchisee audience, right? You've got like, I think Wendy's are like 6000 restaurants, like how many franchisees? So I think that's that's a tough play. But I do believe in it. And like, you know, call me optimistic. I like that's the that's kind of where I think there's an opportunity for sure. But yeah, I think what we didn't really talk about is how they translate and I think we kind of touched on it as a social media. How does it go into their broader marketing and then trickle it into the actual restaurant experience? Because I haven't seen too much of that. I think there's something opportunity there. So there's lots of things that play for them to do. I think we definitely touched on things. I want to say there's definitely the two the bringing back Dave and the freshness are things that could definitely turn this stuff around. I'm glad you said that Paul. Great synopsis. I got inspired. All right. Here's what we're going to do. Kadeera, I'm with you 1000%. We are going to bring the snarkiness into the brand and the full experience. We're going all the way in on it. And we're going to play a little bit of good cop bad cop. So Wendy is the you know, can say what she wants to say gets herself into trouble, goes a little too far. Dave can pull it back and say, wait a minute, Wendy, or let's for let's not forget about being greedy answer, you know, get the yin yang situation. But we're going to lead with Wendy. Wendy's going to be our voice or character throughout the entire branded experience. Not always like, you know, put the talking head, but you get you pick up a hot sauce like that's the hottest hot sauce they have. And it says this sauce hates you. Everything's got character to it. They can keep the snark going. Every package item has a branded opportunity. And then Wendy will just keep taking it to you far and day will just keep saying, hey, hold on Wendy, let's talk about our value or our supply chain and how well we treat everybody, you know, so we're going to play those dynamics for a good long time. We're going to spend a bunch of money on advertising. It's going to be completely worth it. And that's that's our competitive angle. And people will never forget that when these is Wendy's love that I love that, especially on the packaging. Yeah, I love like a snarky comment on every bag and it's different, right? Like I think like one of them will be what should be like, how long will this bag be in the backseat of your car? Yeah, right? Like, you know, like, guys, right? You know what I mean? Like, just things that I mean it would be fun because like every bag could be different and you could have, or I mean, it doesn't it could even just be like literally screenshots of her tweets, right? Because A's or it could just be like, you get like a little, oh, that's funny. Like when she was tweeting TSA, you know, and say, you know, off the things. Yeah, been able to take it this far, but they could say our fries are bad for you and they're delicious. You know, saying like that, or you just own it, you own it. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's that old controversy about dipping your fries and frosties and like, why, like, why do people do that? Right? You know, like, there's all the things. So yeah, I love that, Aaron. I think I loved it. Love it. Love it. It came from all of you. So, I think we're going to get spotted. I like it. Well, okay, but that's going to cut us short. I'm not kind of short. We did it. But that is going to cut us off for this episode of We Fixed It You're Welcome. Just like Dave Thomas, we didn't cut corners here. We took our best shot at Fixing Wendy's. Before we wrap up, Paul Tuscano tell our listeners where they can follow along with what you're doing now. And LinkedIn would probably be the best. I haven't really updated it too much since my departure, but I am working on a startup AI based personalized skincare where we actually produce our products in France and have a shift to your door. So keep an eye out for that one. Fantastic. Thank you so much, Paul, for joining us. Wendy's, we like you. Don't clap back on social. We're in your corner, and we're pulling for you and we're trying to do some good here. Now it's your move to our listeners, our Fixaholics. If you're into what we're doing and we know you are, hit that five star review, wherever you get your podcasts, it really helps more and more people find our show. We like you already, but if you get everyone you know, hooked on our podcast, we'll like you even more. If during this episode you came up with your own fix and you're yelling at back at us for Wendy's or any company that's been stuck in your brain, give it to us. Record a short voice note and send it to myfixatwefixitpod.com. That's myfixatwefixitpod.com and we might just put you on our season finale. And speaking of that, we've got so few episodes left this season that countdown is on. We're going to head back to the prep kitchen and cook up the next one. Thank you again, Paul, Melissa Kedira. Thank you as always and we will see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this episode of We Fixed at Your Welcome. We go into every episode somewhat cold and nothing we say should be construed as legal advice, financial advice or anything that would get us in trouble. All trademarks, IP and brand elements remain property of their respective owners.