Picnic at Hanging Rock with Jane Schoenbrun

On St. Valentine's Day in 1900, a party of schoolgirls set out to podcast at Hanging Rock. Some were never to return. That's the tagline. That's the tagline. A boyfriend podcast. This original poster, I think, is quite beautiful. It's so good. But it is funny how much that tagline frames it. How do you not want to see that movie? That's so much more of a horror film. Well, of course. Yes. But I love the pink border. It's really good. I just think it's so good. It actually sells the aesthetics of the movie pretty well. Yeah. It visually represents. I did Google or I think I clicked through on Wikipedia. St. Valentine's Day. I was like, what is St. Valentine's Day? Is it different? No, it's just Valentine's Day. Valentine's Day is a little fancy about honors the Roman St. Valentine guys. You guys, you know, we got to give it up for her. Shout out. Do you know what else? Excuse me, I celebrate an agnostic Valentine's Day. The only god I respect on Valentine's Day is the Lord of Hallmark. Okay. Well, do you know who what St. Valentine is the patron saint of? Fucking no. What logistics? I excuse me. Epilepsy and beekeeping. May I ask how the fuck this guy got the romance holiday? I don't know. This guy sounds like a bore. He died in the year 273. I don't think you really knew this was all going to happen. Offense to our epileptic listeners. No, I just don't know why that. Isn't there like a more romantic saint? Isn't there like a saint Pepe Lapue or something? A character who has never done anything wrong. Pepe Lapue, can I defend him? 2026. Sure. Yeah. No, he's back. He's back. He's Pepe back. Pepe's back. Because, because Woke died. So Pepe turned. He's got a podcast on the gas network. He's headlining skank fest. Here's my, here's my thing about also Pepe the frog is back. I never liked Pepe Lapue when I was a kid because I always found those, those cartoons boring. They were the same. Yeah, that's right. They were the same. There's another one of these. Yeah. And it's like, okay, he's going to try and kiss the, you know, street lamp or whatever it is that he's obsessed with this time. Well, no, no, excuse me. Excuse me. He's trying to kiss a cat. It's always the same cat. Who he thinks is a skunk. Right. And then she and she's got a paint on her or something. Or like he's a street lamp. And then he's too dumb to recognize that he's kissing a street lamp. Now that we're breaking it down, it's kind of very funny. Yeah. No, that's good. It's actually really good. And I remember. Yeah. You remember the paint on the tail. The paint was the good bit. Yeah. I do think there was perhaps a conceptual flaw in the format where like road runner and Wiley Coyote, they had something to do. You could, you could do some variations on a theme. Change the exact word I was going to use. Even if the structure was the same every time, the variation of the traps and the devices was huge. Peppella Pew, it's always the same cat. Yeah. She's got like three moves. And the more they bring them back, the more you just feel terrible for her. Totally. This hell she's living in. Sure. Well, then fuck it. Peppe is canceled. Okay, we're going to cancel Peppe. The Ice King is a post Peppe Lapue cartoon character. You're saying adventure time? Yeah. I like this character. I like this take because he's like incel Peppe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same thing. He's he's just kidnapping princesses. Yeah. But he's he's got the sort of I know we learned his backstory later, but current Ice King has the kind of the deep insecurity, right? He's always shaking. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I loved adventure time. I have not thought about it in quite a long time. That might be an interesting one to throw at your daughter. She she has tried it and she digs it, but it obviously disturbs her because adventure time's like, you know, at a certain point it becomes weird for adults. Right. Exactly. And my wife actually forbade me from showing it to her. Really? Because she was like, this is too disturbing right now. And my daughter was pretty interested in it, but we'll wait a year or two. She's also deep into watching the wire right now. Right. You got to finish that off. Yes. For Trollsworld tour is the wire. What does she think about season two? Of the wire? Yeah. She's like, why do I have to care about the sabacas? And then later she's like, you know what? Season two might be the best one. The journey everyone goes on with the wire. Did you go through, I guess, world tours too? Did you do the first Trolls? She watched the first Trolls once. She loves Trollsworld world. Something I really struggled to say. Trollsworld war. Trollsworld tour because she loves the hard rock trolls. She loves the villainous, you know, heavy metal trolls. Rachel Bloom. Rachel Bloom and Ozzy Osbourne. RIP. The minions are from a different, they're not in that one. So what Trolls is about a bunch of trolls, you know, who sing, and then Trollsworld tour reveals that there are genres of Trolls based on the kind of music that they sing. And the Trolls we know are the pop trolls. But there's also classical trolls, country trolls, heavy metal trolls, techno trolls, funk trolls. Is this poster pre-Barbie? It's pre-Barbie. Yes. And the heavy metal trolls are trying to take over and turn all music into heavy metal. Oh, that's fine. Which is very- No worries, trolls. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. I mean, they have- What about, I feel like this is also like spider, spider-verse. It's got a little of that. It's post-spider-verse, but it's just post- The big legacy of Trollsworld tour already semi-forgotten was it was the Canary in the coal mine. It was the first straight to streaming code. That's right. I remember that. It was supposed to come out end of March, and it was the first movie, like 10 days into lockdown that studios announced, this will be a $30 rental on Apple tomorrow. They probably made a ton of money. They made a tremendous amount of money. And now my daughter watches it on Peacock about twice a day. Wow. It sounds like you're living through a really fun time. It's a little annoying. For some people, the pandemic has taken a shock on us. Yes, you're stuck in the pandemic, Hal. It's okay. It's okay. I don't mind Trollsworld tour, although I do mind saying it. Yeah, it's terrible. Welcome to Blank Check with Grisly. Who the fuck are you? What is this? I'm one of the- You don't say that? Well, you say it then. Can you say please? Yes, please. This is Blank Check, a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want. And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce baby one time we covered the first Trolls movie on Patreon. This is a mini series on the films of Peter Weir at David's insistence. It is called Podneck at Hanging Cast. That's right. Because David thought Podneck was a really funny word. I don't think it was funny. I thought Podneck. Podster and Castmander, the pod side of the cast. You're too cool, too much. Bullshit. That's a supreme slice of pizza. That's all the toppings. Yeah, don't joke. Dead podcast society. I mean, that's very melancholy. That makes you want to sit by the fire. It's powerful. For stand on a desk. Yes. A noble tear. Was that a big movie for you that you've mentioned it twice already? No, not at all, actually. Yeah, I've seen it once. And I've seen it years ago. I just like Peter Weir is such an interesting weird. He's a weird weird. Well, he's a weird one. And I have to admit. Kind of works in every genre. Kind of couldn't come down. This is me being, I guess, reverse racist. I can't wait to hear this. I'm so thrilled for all of this. I cannot wait to hear this. I always get his filmography confused with Nicholas Rogue's filmography. Well, that's interesting. Good. And I don't think that's reverse racist. It is kind of like what is the commonality between those two guys? They're just they feel like guys who wear crovettes but are freaks. There's something like Aboriginal going on. Sure. Sure. Or like I think it's walkabout is maybe the key. You're thinking of walkabout. That makes a lot of sense. And I'm thinking about like the like there's this thing especially in the because then I looked up the Peter Weir filmography and I was like, oh, I can't talk about what's the one with Albert Einstein in Marilyn Monroe perform. No, no, performance is one. Eureka? Eureka. No, no, no, no. It's not called the conversation. It's called these are all movies, though. They are. I'm going to find it. That movie rocks. Yes. But that's one of the more quietly insane movies. I think they insignificant. There we go. We use the film. Wonderful name too. And it was easy to remember. And of course, Teresa Russell. Yeah. Pinka's Marilyn Monroe. Correct. Gary Busey as I think Joe DiMaggio. That's right. Yeah. Where have you gone? Gary Busey. Wait, who played DiMaggio in Blonde? In Blonde also Gary Busey. He brought him back. Wasn't it Adrian Brody? No. No, is it? I remember thinking they got DiMaggio wrong. In Blonde, Gary Busey was Albert Einstein. In Blonde, Gary Busey did come back. Is Gary Busey alive or did he recently leave? He's alive. He's alive. But let's just say this episode's a month away. Yeah. Right. You never know. As is Peter Weir. Peter Weir is alive, retired, and I truly think like gardening and chilling. Yeah. He seems to be taking it easy. Yeah. What was I going to say? So I think the, because there's this thing especially in like the Australian Peter Weir movies, at least the ones that I've seen where there's like, there's like something grotesque or there's some kind of like, like the guy from the, what's the plumber one? The plumber? The plumber, the titular plumber. I feel like I relate that to the like, there's a lot of that kind of guy in the Nicholas Rogue movies too. Nicholas Rogue is like, I think a classic dang ass freak through and through. Whereas Peter Weir for a guy who became- He left it behind. He left it behind. That's what's interesting. I do think there's a baseline darkness to his movies though. Yeah, I think so. I think part of what was good was he was able to jump over to Hollywood and work with big stars. But what they appreciated was that he brought a surprising amount of edge and depth and darkening. And in this way there's a little bit of like, Milosh. Yes. Yes. Another guy like that. There is, he does have a kind of bifurcated the Australian half and the Hollywood half in his career. This is absolutely his guarantor in the terms that we usually apply on this podcast. This film. This film. Yeah. His second feature film, which is basically canonically accepted in Australian culture as the great Australian movie. I think it was named the number one Australian movie in some survey. Is that true? Yeah. I can- More than a Mad Max or a Heavenly Creatures? I guess the question is right. Now we're, now we get into the question of what's the competition. I think it's a little bit because this is seen as the supreme artistic achievement. Yeah. And Ben and I were watching some of the special features, Bruce or Ben and I, on the second site box set. And they, Weir was talking about that in the sort of reconstructed Australian new wave in cinema, they had like comedy breakthroughs. Mad Max of course is semi-inspired by the Cars that Ate Paris and comes after Weir, but kind of concurrent in this time. But they were like succeeding in genre. They were succeeding in character based comedy. And there was this feeling in the industry of, can we identify our Ingmar Bergman? Can we have our like elevated auteur who we can point to the other countries and go, we got a guy? And this movie was sort of received as I think we finally have. We found that we found our guy. Yeah. And then, you know, Noice and other people come out kind of like simultaneous with him. But I think this is culturally seen as such an important breakthrough of kind of serious legitimacy. I mean, who had, I mean, George Miller, obviously we mentioned him. Who are the other big guys? Baz. Baz. Is Alex Pryas Australian? He is. Yeah. He comes later. He's a little later. Yeah. Let's see, who's identified as part of the Australian new wave? I feel like Wakin Fright has been maybe reclaimed as a significant one. But he's interesting because that's Ted Kochaff. He jumps over to America very quickly and then does like first blood. Yeah, there's like trashier stuff. We get a Burmese or Dallas 40. Wakin Fright is really cool though. That's like, but like that's, there are those Australian movies that would pass over that were basically like, you know, Australia is basically just like a burning wasteland filled with like people with sticks who will hit you. Yeah, people were like, I guess it is, right? You know, like the, and then Paul Hogan comes over and he's like, no, we're just a bunch of mates. We'd love to have a big beer. You know, like there was that. Gillian Armstrong. Yes, it's part of that same wave. But I think a lot of... The leftover season three. Yes. I do think Peter Weir kind of stands out as the guy who made the translation over to the studio system the best, as I was saying. Right. Philip Noyce becomes first and foremost kind of like hired hand elevated adult thriller guy. Thriller guy. Right. Damon Lindelof has cited this film. I think we can hang you rock. That's right. I read that actually season two of The Leftover. Yes. And that's the other thing about this movie is like the cultural tale of its influence on other major works is humongous. Sure. This feels like such a turning point movie of helping to define... It's fascinating. I watched this movie for the first time. Hi, I'm Jane, by the way. Yeah, who's our guest? Our guest today is Jane Shomburn. Returning to the show for the second time, director of I Saw the TV Glow. And excuse me. We're all going to the World's Fair. We're all going to the World's Fair. The title of your next film is... It's Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Measma. I was going to get like 60% of that right, but I didn't. Somebody said Teenage Death Camp. This is why I didn't want to take the shot. That sounds touchy. That sounds like we could be going in the wrong direction. Yes. I definitely would have just said like Camp Measma. I would have not been sure. Camp Measma for short. There was a moment early in like production or prep when some emails were being sent and they were just being sent with the shorthand Teenage Sex. And I said, you know what? That's again. Go with Camp Measma. Yeah. Have you figured out what the acronym is? Is there a catchy kind of... Yeah. Yeah. No, it's great. It's even better than... You have some good. Yeah. Yeah. But then your TV Glow, you could just call TV Glow. Yeah. No, let's get... Or you could call it... It's Measma. We've been saying Measma. We're... You do have a long title. I have been accused of this and... You have things to say and you're going to start saying them at the title. You should call your next name. Where does it come from? I think it comes from like Godspeed, You Black Emperor album, you see that? Yeah. Yeah. That's like good. Lift your skinny fingers to heaven. Or whatever that song was called. Or album. Remember Death From Above 1979? Sure. Remember them? They were great. Yeah. But Jane, thank you for coming here. Thank you for doing this episode. I'm stoked. We were trying to find the right person for this one because it feels like such a big one. And I forget what it was I stumbled upon first, but you citing this as kind of like an important synthesizing of kind of dream language in cinema in a modern way. What I was going to say is I feel like I had this period in my 20s where I took my like kind of like random film video, like video store teenage year film nerddom. And I was like, okay, I got to like... If I'm going to go toe to toe with like the boys at Metrograph, I got to, you know, I got to watch them all. You got to level up. I got to they shoot pictures, don't they? Top 1000. And just like work my way down. And this was very early in that for me. Like I watched this one like pretty early on in like learning film history in the canon. And this was like an early one where I was like, whoa, there are films like this from the 70s? What's interesting about it, because I also like first watched it probably in college or whatever. It's so hooky, like premise that you do... Like there's no barrier to entry with this movie because you're like, oh, fuck, what is this mystery? And then you watch it and you're left with a completely different set of feelings than what you might have imagined of like... It's definitely not about like, you know, trying to figure out where the girls went in a meaningful way. Like it's not a practical film. We'll dig into this further, but the great anecdote that Peter Weir tells about showing the film to an American distributor for the first time after it had like broken out in Australia. It was a buzzy title and the movie ends and the guy throws a cup of coffee at the screen and goes, there's no fucking answer. But that's the whole reason he wanted to make the movie. The dream film syllabus that you wrote. Yeah. Yes. So what was this for? Was this for TV Glow or was it just in general? This was before, I mean, maybe even... Yeah, this was definitely before TV Glow. A friend who had a site, I think called the Syllabus. The Syllabus project. Yeah, that's right. I was asked to write a syllabus of my choosing and I was like, okay, I'm going to write a short syllabus of movies that I think I called it like the oneric, you know, like film language. And yeah, I would update it if I was writing it now. But I mean, I had seen this when I was scanning for potential guests. I hadn't looked at it in some way. I'm glad you did. And looking at this list again now, these were the things I was thinking about. Many of the titles I was thinking about while watching this, trying to understand or kind of place where this movie comes from. No, because no, this is the point you were making, which I think is correct, which is like there was a kind of dream logic that existed primarily in the silent cinema when it was harder to tell more conventional narratives because you didn't have dialogue and things tended to be more visually expressionistic and dreamlike. And then there was a sort of formalizing and a normalizing of stories that it does feel like Picnic at Hanging Rock started to break again. Because you put in here like Trip to the Moon, Cabinet of Dr. Calgary and Shandalu, Meshes of the Afternoon. There is something very indebted to that era. For sure. And I think like the Jean Viggo movies, which have sound obviously. The best movies ever made. But that's like people watch those now and they're like, when the fuck was this made? Why? This feels so modern and things start to get more nearer. That's the golden age of like Cocktoe and all those guys too. Yes. But I agree that looking at this movie now, I was thinking a lot about Antonioni, right? Like this is like Laventura. It's Laventura, but more people finish. It's like Laventura meets the wicker man. Which like fuck yeah. Totally. No, totally. Yeah. But like plus Australian accents, which just like Laventura will always have black and white and Italian in its back pocket where you're like, this is classy. Whereas Australians, you're always like, this is earthier because like the way people talk in Australia just feels different. I think that's part of the fascinating juxtaposition of this movie where you're like, oh, it's like dainty upper class Australian period film at a time where everything else that coming out of the Australian New Wave was like earthy for first and foremost, like dirty, ragged. There's an oddness to like from a distance, is this a Merchant Ivory movie? And you're like, no, there's that like Australian chaos to it. Yeah. And like there's obviously the line from this to all of Sofia Coppola's work is so direct and so short, straight to just like Virgin Suicides being her first movie. Oh, sure. It feels so not iterative of this, but influenced by this. And she has cited it as being like a big turning point movie for her. But I also think Malik is like on the same spectrum as this and obviously is just a couple years away. I thought of Memoria. Well, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. That's maybe the other best movie ever made. Yeah. Am I crazy? I love Memoria. That movie is the best movie ever made. Certainly of the decade. I should have put it on my site and sound list. Like what was I doing? I've shared my fuck up with that movie, right? What? Had it on mute? Even worse. I went to see it with an ex-girlfriend at the Alamo Draft House. That is the worst movie to see as a dying inexperience. God bless. Yeah. God forbid an emotionally charged, are we getting back together or is this the end of every thing? Crunching my mozzarella sticks. Yeah. It was like a reconnection point that ended with me bad night. That movie made me want to just run into the street. I was so happy at the ending. I was, yeah. Instead, I was just very self-conscious about when I took bites of my chicken tenders. But this is a weird one. Like this feels like sci-fi, right? Like Picnic and Hanging Rock. This movie? Absolutely. At moments. It is really flirting with that. Yes. It was one of the Coen Brothers movies where you said this, David. And I've thought about it a lot where it's like... Three point by me. Well, wait until you hear what it is. The point was, I'm big and smart. No, the point was you said something like, this movie just feels like it has the answers. What movie was I referring to? I'm trying to remember. It might have been Lebowski. Sure. But these movies that somehow feel like, is there more going on? Is it like retaining secrets that's not sharing with me? And beyond the fact that this movie is like pointedly unsolved. I think there's something to watching this where you're like, is this religious? Is this supernatural? Is it existential? Is it all of them? Is it like... There's something of like the 60s and the 70s. There's something of like that generational moment that it's coming to the end of. But there's something really magical to a movie like this where you're like, you watch it and you get the feeling of confidence that it knows what it's about, but it's just not telling you. Versus sometimes I think when people try to affect the style of a movie like this from the outside in. And you're like, you're just being vague. There's the Lynch quote where he says, I wanted it to feel like the answer was like in the next room over. Yeah. Love that. Perfect way of saying it. Yeah. Isn't it crazy though to watch the Jean Vigo movies all like one and a half of them? Yeah. And just be like, this was the best it ever got. Like in a not like a pessimistic way, just in a kind of like, oh yeah, this is right. It was all there pretty early and we've never beaten it. That's how I feel about that movie. I dropped out of film school very quickly, but my favorite teacher in my very short period of time was a guy named Gary Meyers at Cal Arts who before screening us, Lottelant said, if what was his phrasing? It was something I'll paraphrase this, but it was something to the effect of if 1% of movies were 1% of as good as Lottelant every year, we would be living in a perpetual golden age of cinema. Jesus Christ. I think it's like who is like and I do feel that relationship between Laventura and this film where like like Lavent, it's like it's how I feel about the Blair Witch Project also, which is like you weren't like let's make a found footage movie. You were like, let's make a movie and here's like like you invented the language and so. Yeah. Without even totally me. How I feel about like Elliot Smith songs versus like a litany of like other singer-songwriters who are sort of like occupying a genre. It was inside him and then everyone else copied it or something. Totally. And Laventura to Picnic and Hanging Rock because I feel like I don't watch this movie and maybe it's just that I know we're not going to get the mystery solved, but Laventura is like the essence of that. What if the third act didn't come? Right. Yes. Right. Right. What if it's like and that's that and I leave you with your thoughts like not with an answer or explanation. Whereas this almost feels like it's like playing in that genre like that genre existed for this so that this could swim and run and make it a little sci-fi. Well and also that like feels like a simulation sometimes. A little bit. Yeah. Something to the fact that it is so seismic stylistically and in terms of what like contributes to the modern film language and yet unlike what you're talking about someone like Malik or Antonioni or Sofia Coppola or Elliot Smith or whoever where you're like this is the only way they would know how to make something. They're not looking to break the form. This is just the purest expression of the way they view the world and their emotional landscape and all of that. You get into the making of this movie and Peter Weir like just breaks it down logically. This is not a style that's really shared by any of his other films. He gets there incrementally in terms of problem solving the best way to adapt this novel and like serve the material and also make something that is sellable and ends up sort of like. Bumbling into this. Right. It's like the guy who like creates silly putty while trying to remove wallpaper glue or whatever. Yeah. Blair Witch Project is actually it is a great comparison to this movie also because it is another movie that you watch where you're like this isn't real right because like my wife was like is this based on a true story and I'm like no like people didn't vanish like in like a mystical way but you watch it and you're like this is a real thing that happened in Australian history. It feels weirdly real and there also was the cultural reputation that pursued this movie of the book being framed almost as like a mini Fargo. Is this real? Right. Like what inspired this? Right. God Blair Witch is the best. How do we cut? I guess we would do the series on Patreon. Yeah. That's what we've talked about. It's a weird movie to talk over but yeah anyway. I could do it. You like Blair Witch. Watch. All right. We're not doing Blair Witch. I still maintain the scariest stuff in Blair Witch is at the beginning. I don't or maybe that's crazy but I do. I love that movie. It's incredible. David. Yes. Hmm. 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They only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards. Yes. For craft. And ethical production. So I've got all kinds of quints stuff. As I point out all the time, I also, my bed sheets. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. My comforter, quints. And they're hitting? Yeah. They're hitting. Best. I love being in bed. Falling asleep well. Right now. Go to quints.com slash check for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it and you will. Now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to QUINCE.com slash check for free shipping. Go to QUINCE.com slash check for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com slash check. I'm going to open the dossier about picnic and hanging rock. Lady of Joan Lindsay wrote this book. She was a painter. She studied art at the National Gallery of Victoria Art School in Melbourne. She wrote unpublished plays and then she wrote a debut novel under a pseudonym and didn't, and this is all in like the 20s and 30s and didn't become successful until she was in her 60s and 70s. She wrote a book called Time Without Clocks. Sounds cool. Fact, Soft and Hard. I assume nobody has read these books. Say that last one. No, good title. Fact, Soft and Hard. CTS? It sounded like you were saying FATs, like FATs domino. Like the remote to the FATs dominoes. No, I don't know what those books are about, but those came before 1967's Picnic at Hanging Rock. She was labeled a bit of a mystic by her friends, sort of said that she could see things others couldn't, new things without being told, could tell what had happened in the past. I mean, what? Apparently, this is what her friends said about her. Time without clocks refers to the fact that she could sort of stop clocks and watches in her presence. I mean, cool. And I mean, she sounds cool. Yeah, get her on the podcast. I think she might be very dead, but maybe we can come, you know, summon her from another time. If there's anyone who can summon it's her, and also- Sounds like it. She probably likes League of their Own. Now, Hanging Rock is a real place. She'd had a weird dream about a picnic there. She knew this place well from her childhood holidays, and she wakes up from this dream and she can feel the breeze blowing through the trees and hear the laughter and like she starts writing and wrote this in 10 days, supposedly. Yes, the novel. As though possessed, correct. Now, the novel opens with whether Picnic at Hanging Rock is factor fiction, my readers must decide for themselves as the fateful picnic took place in the year 1900 and all the characters who appear in this book are lungs instead, it hardly seems important. And the book was warmly received, but much like the opening of Fargo, it like sparked a bunch of fucking conversation of, is she trying to convince us this is real? Is this a con? Is this like a scandal that's been covered up, etc. Now, here is a painting called At Hanging Rock by William Ford that inspired her. Clearly, to sell them as well. Exactly. And indeed, as you point out, she kind of does the Fargo thing of like, is it true or not? To her, true is different. That's how she puts it. And so, Peter Weir had made Homesdale, right, Griff, which is like, is it a short film or is it like a TV movie? It's like 50 minutes long. Yeah, he made a couple of 50 minute guys. I haven't seen Homesdale yet. I watched his section called Michael of an Omnibus about young people in Australia. Okay. That's very good. But Homesdale is seemingly the one that got him on the map. And it was the movie that attracted the attention of Pat Lovell, who is like an Australian sort of show busy person. She was like a TV person. Yeah. And she kind of takes the book to Peter. He was writing Cars of the Day of Paris, right? So he hadn't even started to work on that. And she leaves the book with him. He reads it late into the night, can't put it down. He loved that it was open-ended. Like he's basically reading the book being like, they better not solve this and then they don't. But quote I heard him say. Then it's not Sherlock Holmes. He always thought about Hitchcock saying that a mystery was the hardest kind of story to crack. Right. But in his experiences of viewer, he always felt disappointed when mysteries had to solve themselves. Because Sherlock Holmes, it is annoying when he's like, actually it was a robot, you know, and then. Sometimes it's awesome. Sometimes it's awesome. Yeah. Excuse me, David. If Sherlock Holmes said it was a robot, that would be awesome. The Hound of the Baskervilles was a big fucking robot. That would be cool. No, but it's very hard to make the ending that is more satisfying than the anticipation and the mystery, which I think what he was saying that often it feels like. Even if an ending is like surprising or catchy, that it still isn't as exciting as the tension at the center. Kind of how I felt about weapons. Interesting. Interesting enough. Yes. I was like, ooh, where are these? I hope I don't find out where these kids went. Then they're like, it was a witch. It was a witch. It was a witch and she did a specific thing. She did a very bold stuff. She did some very specific things. She had a very particular set of skills. Tangling hair around a stick. Water is involved. A bowl of water. But yes, he read this and was like, I fucking love that this just doesn't have an ending. That it doesn't solve it. That's my perfect kind of mystery movie. He meets with her because he has to be approved by her to make the movie. They meet and at a certain point he says, forgive me, but can I ask you? I'm not supposed to ask you this, but is it true? Oh, the novelist you're saying. He asks the novelist. Yes. Yeah. He was in fact specifically going into the meeting. The only thing we forbid you from doing is asking her if it's real. And she said, I really don't want to discuss that. Please don't ask her again. Wow. But then she also said. She still was into it. She was like, you can make the movie. I believe she said something to him to the effect of it feels true to me in a way. And that his interpretation of it was this is in some way in conversation with some experience she had that she would not share. Obviously it is set in a time she didn't, you know, would not have lived through in that way. But it felt like in the same way that it came out of a dream, it was some processing of something that she had deeply repressed, which is why she was so noncommittal always. And it was sort of a warped interpretation. And then for us watching the movie, like watching someone else. Doing their best to like honor that experience that someone else had. That's interesting. Yes. He also asked her, he said, you don't need to explain it to me, but can you tell me is there a definitive answer in your mind? And she said yes. Right. She said portal. Well, he was like, do they just fall down a crevasse? Dimension X, they went to fucking Dimension X. Are they're aliens? It's something supernatural happen, whatever. And she goes, I know what it is. Which is kind of what he needed to know, even if he didn't need to be told. Right. He needed that mood to exist in some way. He's recommended David Williamson in Australian playwright to write the book. Doesn't happen, but that guy does end up writing Gallipoli and you're living dangerously. So they do work together. But he's suggested a guy called Cliff Green who wrote the screenplay, who said the whole thing was a magical experience. This is what I like about him. This is the quote I like that JJ highlighted. The first 20 minutes of the film were easy to write because it's straight line chronologically. But the moment when Edith comes screaming down the hill, becomes a more complex story. So much of it is atmosphere and setting. It's really a book about the atmosphere of Australia. Love that that's like, again, that this guy just reads the book and gets it. That like, I am not, you know, being asked to make this more linear or make this more about something in a way a movie needs to be about something. You know what I mean? Like it'd be so easy to read this book and be like, okay, but, you know, it can't just be about the atmosphere of Australia, whatever that fucking means. Right. Like that it's, you know, gotta be more about like, no, and then a bunch of guys came with metal detectors and waved them around hanging rock. And then a bunch of, you know, spiritualists came or what, you know, like, however the, I mean, there was a TV mini series version of this recently. I kind of wanted to watch it. What was that like? I mean, I don't know. Like what does that do to the story? If there's a musical that has been like, it just finished a run here in New York. I was trying to get to it, but like it's been like 15 years of like redevelopment. This is a story that people keep coming back to. I just want to throw out a little bit and like just move back one step for one second. The bizarreness of this project coming together in the way that it did. Patricia Lovell, the person you mentioned who reached out to Weir after seeing his short film, was like as a bad analog, like the Kelly Rippa of Australia, like someone who had started in radio and then was like a children's TV presenter and then was like a morning television person. And like did not have a footing in film reads this book, decides I should option this and I've seen the short film. And I guess it hasn't made a feature yet. And I'm going to reach out to him where Peter Weir is like, when I got the call, it didn't even fucking make sense what was being presented to me, why she was the person, why she would believe in me. And then when she brings him to meet with, um, Joan Lindsay, he and Joan Lindsay hit it off immediately. And she was by all accounts a very kind of tough guarded customer. And everyone's just like, this feels like the right combination of people, even though it belies any sort of traditional thinking. They could barely scribe together a budget. Obviously they're promising to make a movie with no resolution. It's not an easy sell. The bookhead was at least famous in some way. They get 220,000 pounds is how he puts it, about 440,000 Australian dollars. You know, their money is laminated. It's like plastic because they all go in the beach. They all go in the water. Australian people are going to get so mad at me on this miniseries because all everything I know about Australia is from uninformed opinions that British people had that I learned when I lived in Britain and Bluey. I was going to say. And like, and Bluey presents a very utopian vision of Australia. Bluey makes you think they're the best of us. Right. And I have noticed anytime we talk about Australia on this podcast, your British upbringing comes into play where you're like, They're very, you know, they look down on you. But you describe them like they're a bunch of loony tunes. That's how British people talk about that. He said they're always in the water. Like British people are English people, I should say, because it's not British people. English people are basically like Scottish people are like drunk madmen. Welsh people are like simpletons. Australians are just right. Like raving criminals living in this like semi-lawless landscape. You make side swipe comments as if beyond Thunderdome is toned down. From the everyday life of the modern Australian. And then you watch Bluey and you're like, Oh, what a fine place this is. Right. Have they solved emotional intelligence? Are they the ones? The McElroy brothers, my brother, my brother and Peter Weir, Hal and Jim McElroy who produced this and also produced Cars that Ate Paris. Yeah. And later produces, produced the last wave. They said they were having such a hard time getting Cars that Ate Paris off the ground. They knew how difficult it was for that movie not having like a clean hook and a weird title. And like a murky plot that one of the strategic decisions they make is we're already thinking about how to sell this movie that's not going to satisfy in a conventional mystery way. Let's make the girls who disappear as like ethereal and poetic and enticing as possible. Not just so we can put them at the center of the poster, but so that the tension of the movie comes from the rug pull of oh, shit, they're gone. Right. That's the psychonous. Right. Right. Yeah. There is a really hook you into these girls. Right. A psycho framing that they pitched to Weir and he's on board with with like, how do we make the first 30 minutes so intoxicating and even just the visual language of Fucking pan flutes and These girls and their flowing white dresses the front of the poster with these dreamy color scheme. And then we're going to freak you out. And I think that on rewatch a thing that I kind of like vaguely remembered being left with. I think this movie maybe peaks in those first 30 minutes for me. It is. There's nothing like it. That's I don't know if you can sustain that mood. Yeah, no, 100%. Right. So it's sort of unavoidable. Yeah. But you are a little bit like take me back, you know, when it's right. Like I just it is a movie where I'm like, I'm not sure I care who's sleeping with each other or who's having a conversation right now. But that's not true because I love the movie. You know, of course, you know what I mean? Like I want to go to the movie also. Yes. And those first 30 minutes are like that. That's the thing that if you don't watch it for four years, you're like, yeah, you're full and on. It's also why her screaming is so upsetting. Even though like nothing, you know, violent happens and nothing, you know, nothing really at all happens. But it's like Grace Zabrisky screaming in Twin Peaks. Yes. Which Jane, of course, has discussed on the show with us. Where you're just like, Jesus, why is she making that? No, I don't know. Like it snaps you out of the reverie in a really disturbing way. No, I also forget which ones are which and hopefully JJ has. Which girl is which? No. Oh, OK. I see women as different people. No, I definitely I could not in this. I, you know, there are like there are some characters at the picnic. You know, you're like, oh, glasses girl. But yes. No, what I was going to say is where is Jackie Jackie? Jackie Weaver is the main Jackie. We are not one of the girls. Oh, wow. She's the maid getting a little something something on the side. Oh, sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. But it is she is one of those people where you you know Jackie Weaver in the present tense. Yeah. Right. Reintroduced as like, you know, she's all fucking happy. Yeah. Right. 10 million pounds or whatever. Right. Kind of like one of the weirdest two time Oscar nominees. Oh, rules. But like she's in this, she has a run of Australian work. Then she kind of like disappears from Australian film for a long time. What's the second nom for? Obviously the first. Silver Lings Playbook. Right. She's like, oh, fucking have you. Where's the money? What's she like in that one? Yeah. Yeah. That's what she said. Go Eagles. Oh, fucking have you Eagles. Yeah. Wooder Ice. What would Wooder Ice? Wooder Ice. Right. Yeah. John. What I was going to say. Just pissing off Philadelphians 2 now. Yeah. I think five year engagement is the movie she makes right after getting the animal kingdom nomination. Yeah. That was her first Hollywood film ever. Right. Yeah. And even before Animal Kingdom, she hadn't done a movie in like a decade, had mostly been doing theater. Sure. Like she's in the most iconic Australian film in a supporting part and then even still has this DRIPS and DRABS career doesn't even become like Australian character actor royalty until decades later. She's. And you see her, you hear that she was in picnic at Hanging Rock and you just looking at her face present day are like, it's going to be so hard to pick out who she is because there's no way she looked like this when she was. I think I even like googled like totally what character that she plays and then was like, well, you're not Sarah. So. Right. Who fucking knows? You're not Irma. Irma. Irma. Have you seen Fearless Jane, the Peter Weir movie with Jeff Bridges? No. It is another movie where I think the whole thing is very good and the first 30 minutes feel transcended. That's true. And similarly dream like, I mean, not similar to this, but just, you know, just in a in a in a Fugie kind of state. He's come to replicating this style and has a similar like, well, That movie rocks. Reality needs to splash water in your face. This tone can't maintain forever. And it is one of these movies where like, it's not like the movie falls off a cliff after the first 30 minutes, but the first 30 minutes are just activating something that is like. Yeah, it's thrilling. It's a miracle. It still feels otherworldly. It's funny that we're saying that, right, the, oh no, he never really replicated this tone again. And then I'm like, no, you're right about Fearless. And then like the Truman Show is like that. Truman Show. Especially before the. Also has a similar kind of structure of like 40 minutes of like, what is this weird transmission from space? Yes. And the reason I was thinking about Dead Poet Society is because I imagine like the big difference is that like this doesn't have like characters like that movie has maybe. No, but also. But it certainly has this like. Boarding school. Yeah, massive. Impression. Right. Yeah. You watch Dead Poet Society now and you're like, that's Ethan Hawke, that's Robert Sean Linder. But like, I don't know if you felt that way as much when that movie came out and there was a bunch of boys. Part of those guys becoming those guys was that movie takes its time to like, sell you on each of those guys individually versus the inverse of this, which is like, we need to sell you on a vibe and an energy of what these girls represent. That is enjoyable for you to watch because we don't have time to build them individually as characters. I don't know if it's don't have time. Like I feel like the movie is disinterested in like, it's just kind of nasty. Sure. And like even like those men, like the school mistress. Yeah. And then at the end of the movie, when you just like find out in quick succession that like the two main characters left like die. Yes. Very. It's like, it's not logical. It's not like emotionally logical or it's clear that it's like clearing space to do something else then. Yeah. So when they're like, and everyone died, I'm like, yes, right. I suppose you would never get over the six years. Everything was on raffle already at this point. When you were saying like, I don't really care about the conversations towards the end of who's sleeping with who when it gets into the. You know me, I hate gossip. You hate gossip. This movie is in that like somewhat limited canon of decade plus later directors cuts that take footage out. Interesting. He trimmed it down about 10 minutes. It is hard to find the theatrical version now. Wow. Like the criterion has always only put out the directors cut, which is about 10 minutes shorter. And the 10 minutes that are cut out are mostly in the last 30 minutes of the film and are kind of shoe leather stuff. It's like more stuff with the coachmen and shit. And none of it's bad, but it does feel interesting that he makes this film in 1975 and then in like 97 or 98. He's like, in decades of rewatching this film as part of retrospectives, maybe we just get to the end faster. Maybe past the first act. I could have tightened this up. Well, because it's like, it's such a spell for those first 30 minutes. Yeah. And then it's not exactly that the spell is lifted. It's more that like the spell just has this like slow, like denouement. Yes. Yeah. Just give you a little more context on the film. Obviously, money comes from Australia Film Development Corporation in South Australia, you know, like government money. But he says like the Australian New Wave is basically happening concurrently with indeed dramas being made in Australia, if that makes, he's like the people came first, then came the money. Like, I feel like the country starts to get aware of like, oh, there's something artistically happening here with Australian film that is brand new and we can give a little money to him, not like a ton of money to it. We are calls it kind of like, like the sort of hippie hang, you know, like post hippie kind of thing. Is how, you know, like these people, the flower children, the anti-war movement are now kind of just rattling around, getting a little older and some of them are starting to make movies. It's similar to what like Easy Rider Kick started over in Hollywood. And he said like that's they wanted to put the money into that to angry young person movies, character studies, things that were kind of like sexually charged social comedies. And when they were pitching this movie, even though the book was successful, people were like, who the fuck wants to watch a period piece that they were facing so much opposition to like, that's not what's going on in the culture right now. And that he was so frustrated that there was this limiting in a like film market, a film scene that had finally like opened up and they were already trying to pigeonhole it to this is the only thing we export. And that after Picnic had hanging rock, people were angry that he was making the last wave and that he wasn't sticking with period films because Picnic had had such a big impact that everyone flipped the other way. Weir's take is that the rock literally opened up and swallowed them by the way. He's got a he's got over the years he talked with her a lot over, you know, as after he makes the movie, she sort of trusts him more where she's like basically like, of course, she made it up. The rock opened up and swallowed him. Right. Fucking hanging rock more like hungry rock, hungry rock. And like then eventually at one point he's like, did a UFO get them? And she's like, maybe. And he's like, all right, you're too much. Like, and then she dies. But then Peter Weir is like, he's like, I just had to have an answer in my head and I've decided that like they just got swallowed by essentially the earth. I love that. Right. But I don't know, you know, and he also was basically like, she was kind of shocked by the movie when she saw it for the first time and said like, he kind of changed the tone and I didn't really write it with that kind of feeling, which is interesting to think about. But like, you know, what she was imagining versus the sort of dreamy thing that she's seeing. But they were friends for life. But that's part of the, this is a dream that felt really real to her. Totally. You know, she doesn't need that translation in tone to sell the laps in logic because it makes emotional sense to her, which is the part that I think made him, Weir, feel like this was in conversation with something real she had experienced. Sure. It's some emotional truth. Yes. Right. Peter Weir is like, obviously a bunch of girls didn't just vanish. That would be in the news even in 1900. Like, and there's no evidence that that happens. But that's what I think he was smart about, talking about him like kind of landing on the style pragmatically is like, she thinks of this like it's the French connection. And if I present this as the French connection, people are going to ask 8000 questions. What do you mean? Where did they go? If it feels unreal from the beginning, that's part of the juice. He also said that when he went to the real location, once he had signed on to make the film, he was like, oh fuck. Everyone's like an energy. Everyone, when they shot there said like, it was spooky as hell and we hated it. When you see it in the movie, No offense, I was like, that's hanging rock. It's not that good. It's like they're like going on this long trip to hanging rock. Yeah, it's really sucks. No, I'm kidding. I'm totally kidding. It seems to rock. They get these girls mostly from Adelaide from like fancy schools. Like he basically like realizes they looked at lots of girls, but they realized like, no, we need kind of like posh private school girls who are 16 years old. This was the thing I was going to say. What? Before I lost my point, a thing that has never happened before in the history of this podcast that he they dubbed over a majority of the school girls because for him, he was like, I'm ready to cast two different parts. The look and the energy is so important that I will cast based on that, even if they can't deliver lines. And there's a lot of them and get voiceover actors to like sell the line delivery later, because it's not like they have that much dialogue. Well, it seems it's one of the things that I love about the first 30 minutes of the movie is and the quality like continues on. But this that like painterly quality where it's like you're almost looking at these like wide shots that look like these old these old like impressionist paintings, like these like groups of girls in nature. Yes. And like literally holding fabrics over the lens to make things feel more not synthetic, but like pointedly artificial and unreal. I'm just going to keep using the word unreal. This movie was made using Unreal Engine, right? This was the original. It's actually an Unreal tournament. But like they the way the producers and we are described, it's like they were a bunch of hysterical teenage girls like in the best way, like they just had the right energy once you got them all together. Most of them never act again. Yeah, one of them has a story about like the author seeing her and calling her Miranda and being like, it's been so long. Hey, everyone seems a little high on like how insane it was to make this movie and how it felt like it was real. Do you know what I mean? Like what? And I'm not being dismissive of this. I was going to say, I love your dance between loving movies more than anything. And then sometimes you read shit like this and you're like, fucking get over yourselves. So what? You made a 10 out of 10 masterpiece. It's not that it's more just like you're telling this anecdote of like the author was looking at me with shimmering eyes, addressing me as this long lost girl in her past or whatever. And like that was obviously very meaningful, but it does feel like everyone got kind of like intoxicated by like being in this location, being in these costumes. It's cool though. Yeah. You make movies. I make movies. I rule. You make great movies. That's exactly how it feels. You kind of need it too. If you're going to make a fucking movie, you need to be like, if it gets very tarot cardy, it gets very like, whoa, this must be cosmic. It's so funny how people only talk about movies like that, right? Like where it's like, yeah, we kind of got like, something's happening. Or they were like, yeah, making that sex scene was really weird. They had to like put baby powder on me every take and like every setup is really boring. You know, where you're like, wasn't it awesome to do this thing of like, no, boring and tech work? Because it's Amazon fulfillment. It's like there's the like, like the Marvel, like the Robert Downey, Juniorland way of making a movie. There's the like, all right, where, you know, call me out when you're ready for me. I'm going to be in my trailer. You have a Jane Land, right? Yeah. The Jane, the Jane Land is just a big box of jelly beans. You're inside the box. Like it's a fucking ball pit. Ball pit, right. Yeah. But then like if you're, yeah, the other option for making a movie is that like you care a lot and everyone is not sleeping and you enter a state that's like one step below war level psychosis. And by the end of that, yeah, you're going to be like that fucking rock, man. I mean, I guess it was because I was digging this movie and the surrounding stuff, but I ended up watching last night a peak pandemic Zoom 20 year reunion of the Virgin Suicides cast. Sure. Okay. Heartnet. Heartnet, Dunst. Dunst. And the other daughters, most of whom. Right, didn't really. Right. One of them was young Jenny and four scump, but that was kind of her last major, major role. Isn't one of them AJ Cook? Yes. Who's like the criminal minds girl for the next. She's still on that show. Yes. God bless her. Fucking final destination two. And I was like, what happened to this person? She's really good. And you're like, oh, she made $47 trillion on 800. She's been on criminal minds since I started college and I'm 40 years old. Here's what's so crazy about this. If I can go off for half a second here. She joins like four or five seasons in and you're like, oh, late. She only did 600 episodes of criminal minds. She's now on a criminal mind spin off, I believe. No, you are incorrect. Criminal minds has merely been retitled criminal minds evolution. Insane. Yes. Okay. And the other thing that happened is at one point. Why, by the way? Because criminal minds went off the air for two whole years and CBS was just like, need it back. Yeah. And so they just brought back the same cast, Montaigne is back, AJ Cook is back. They called it criminal minds evolution, I guess, to distinguish that something had happened. Well, also, because Charmander used to be on the show. Right. Now he's Charmillion. Charmillion. Yeah. But they at one point kicked her off the show because they were like, I got to tighten the budget. Yes, they kicked her off for you. And fans protested so much. They brought her back and even still you're like, she joined late. She was kicked off. The show died. And yet she's been doing it for. Why are you bringing up the original Suicide Zoom? I'm sorry, what was this original? They were talking about how like for like Dunst and Partenet, they had done other things. But those things felt way more traditional up until that point. And this was the first kind of like cool artsy movie they had worked on. And the rest of the group were either like non-actors or actors who were kind of at the beginning of their career. Right. Or James Woods. The young cast. Yeah, that's right. And they were all like, it was kind of incredible how well you established an energy. Like not in a woo woo way, but you created this feeling of like we're all in this together. This is the vibe. It is safe. It is protected. It is experimental. It's such a huge part of like, because it's you know, it's like circus shit. Right. And like it's not just like for the viewers at home. It's like if you got a, we talked about portals a lot on this new movie. Cool. It's just like we're going through a portal guys. Welcome to the portal. We're on the other side of the portal now. And you know, everyone is so sleep deprived and also like in a manic state of something that like people are ready to buy into that. I feel like Paul Tom Sanderson always talks about time travel. That like that's what he's trying to push everyone through. And even less like, because he's not literally depicting periods in a very accurate way most of the time. It's like the feeling of that. But, but it is like there are things that are just feel like the technical work and still through everyone being on the same page have a consistent energy to them. But this is a movie where as much as it doesn't feel like we're trying to design that by purpose, everyone was kind of in the suspended state the whole time. There's something like uncanny in both. Yeah. In the energy. Yes. And then part of that is Rachel Roberts. So we can talk about how she got involved in this. But like seemingly was a Gene Hackman and Royal Tanninbombs esque terror to this young cast and this young director in a way that like only helped the movie. She's an Oscar nominee from the sporting life and they structure everything around. It was going to be this actress Vivian Merchant. She was the original. She's the like the woman, the boarding school. The, yes, the mean woman. Misses after the art. And Vivian gets ill. She can't come to Australia. She's a British actor. Was married to Harold Pinter? Famously super chill guy. And we're what's like the way she would perform his material is what I was looking for in the intensity and the sharpness. Gets ill. They lose her like 10 days before she's supposed to arrive in Australia. They have to find someone in less than 24 hours basically to get him on a plane. Rachel Roberts says yes immediately, but also says I won't arrives and says I won't wear her wig. Correct. Which is fair. Right. She said there's a supernatural kind of like tradition in the British theater that if you wear a wig designed for another actor or production is cursed. Yes. And Peter Weir is like, well, we're in Australia and this is a movie. So maybe that doesn't count. And they were like, she was so fucking strong headed about it. And beyond that shows up in Australia with her own wig, which is the wig she wears in the movie. And everyone's like, well, we hate that. I'm team her on this. I agree. She's right. But they all talk about being like, we gotta talk her down things. She's also just like fucking with their, you know, best laid plans and they be like this tiny movie. She's pulling rank. Come on. That was the whole thing. But like how much of this is pulling rank versus like how much of this is she's on her own wavelength and which can be hard to communicate with? You're doing a movie. Uh-huh. Let's say, um, Thomas Middletish. Okay. Good job casting that guy. Things are going good. Yeah. And he's got his own wig. Yeah, probably does. Then they hire you. Yeah. Because he drops out last minute. Yeah. I would add, would you wear that wig? I first I would ask, did he ever wear this wig in his personal life or is it only? Has this wig gone to any locations? I mean, while you've got the perfect wig sitting at home with you. No, I think she was creatively right. I don't think I'd have any hangups about it in the same way. Beyond that, whatever this energy was works in the movie so well because you are like, what's wrong with this woman. But in a perfect way. It's just so funny that the chain of it is like, what the fuck is she talking about? We don't have the money for another wig. And she's like, don't worry, I'm bringing my own. She shows up with the wig. Everyone's like, we hate this. How do we talk her down from the wig? And it's like the lady killers where they're submitting one person at a time to talk her down from the wig. And the person comes out the door bloody and is like, she's not moving on this. And they're all like, we hated the wig. We still hate the wig. It took 10 years to recognize she was right. She was totally right. While we were filming, we were like, this wig's going to fuck up the entire movie. Well, that's wig. But that they were all terrified by her. She had a reputation for getting dead drunk. Yes. And doing an impression of a dog that she was apparently very skilled at that would quickly turn into her just being committed to acting like a dog for the rest of a party. My daughter does that a lot. Would start biting people on the legs of shit. She doesn't bite people. She was like Rex Reed's third wife of six. I'm sorry, what? And Speck. Rex Reed? I'm sorry, not Rex Reed. Yeah, I was about to say. Rex Reed don't have no wives. Rex Harrison, excuse me. She was married to Rex Harrison, who then had three wives after her and spent the rest of her life trying to get Rex Harrison back in between divorces. She dies of suicide five years after this film. Yes. She was 53 years old. Yes, was like an incredibly extreme, somewhat tortured woman. Yes, totally. And like had this effect on everyone else working on the film. They viewed her the way she sort of the energy she holds over all the characters in the film. Rex Harrison, legendary stickman, seven wives. But it's not like a nurse ratchet. You know, you're not like, well, she is the breakout. Like, like all. No, no, she's very woven into the movie. Totally. The other, yes, yes. The other fascinating thing is there's the early scene. I think it's basically her introduction where she's on the steps. Of the school addressing all the students. There will be a dinner served when you're home. And that was maybe her first scene she shot and she does like two takes and she goes to Weir. And she's like, could you just put a tape mark on a C stand and send all the actresses away? The way they are looking at me with the level of fear they have in their eyes is throwing me off and I can't concentrate in the dialogue because I feel too bad. And he sends them away and was like, she nailed it in one take. And like her theatrical training was like, oh, she can just do whatever you ask her to do. And he was like, she was the first time I'd worked with an actor where I could give such a specific note of try doing it with a little more of this energy and she would make an adjustment. You would see that dial chain. Sure. That would be almost like. It's it's unnoticeable to anyone else. Yeah. When I went from working with like non-actors or early career actors to like trained theater actors, it's a crazy thing to experience that she was so fine tuned. She didn't need to create a reality around her that she could just take what you asked of her and give it to you immediately, but that the energy throughout had the proper effect on all the other actors. Yeah. Yeah. She's in one of my favorite movies of all time, which is Saturday Night and Sunday Morning. She's amazing in that movie. She rocks and she's amazing in this movie, obviously. She is one of the few performances I remember versus the girls where you're right. You're more just like the vibe is so correct. Russell Boyd, the great cinematographer who shoots all of Weir's movies. As you said, Griff puts all these filters and nets which shoot close ups at 32 frames a second and then cut that together with 24 frame per second dialogue shots to like basically make things feel strange. Because he's basically like, we have no money. And Weir is saying to him, we have no money. You have to make things feel weird. You just have to do tricks. And so they would basically be like, can I shoot you a little faster? Don't blink. And then we'll like mix it with regular speed stuff and it'll, you'll barely detect what's going on, but it'll just feel odd and that's his big trick. Does this make any sense, Jane? Yeah. Yeah. We did a little, we did a little frame rate stuff on my new one. Frame fudging. That's fun. A little one carway, you know. Yeah, exactly. Yes. I mean, the king of that. They did very shallow depth of field. Obviously they put like gauze over the lens. I mean, it's often literally like bridal veil fabric. Right. They would go by bridal veil stuff. John Seal is the camera operator on it. Obviously John Seal isn't, you know, legendary cinematographer. In his own right. And, you know, they just wanted to capture this kind of hallucinatory rhythmic mesmeric kind of atmosphere. So I have a question, please. I'm going to post it to Yeed David as the foremost expert on Australia. Here we go. Jesus. Why so cool. She had this dream. He made this movie. They made it dreamy. They never solved the mystery. No. But why does this capture Australia? That is a great question. So like what does that mean? What does he mean that screenwriter said this, of course, Cliff Green, by like, he must mean this mood. I'm going to take back that he must mean anything because I am not definitive on anything here. But he might mean like this mood of the country, quote unquote, civilizing, right? Which is what this school represents. The school is so English, right? Like it feels like, because like I feel like so much of Australian culture is this push and pull of like, well, we're from England. Like so many people who came to Australia to settle the country originally are being sent there from England to the English Empire, British Empire. You know, and so like we're going to build our own England here. But it's like you're in a completely different environment. There's people already here. You know, you're creating a culture that is not English. But then there's like Englishness that's being clung to with this like this school. Well, to be really blunt about it, it's like here's second generation colonizers. Trying to be like, we got our boots on the ground. Now let's start building Britain to different climate. And this is a movie that's literally about like the earth attacking that. Yeah. Right. They're like, right. They're violating this sort of hostile space, like natural space. Like it's not like a inviting place that they're in. No. It's pretty, I guess. It's hot. But it's hot. There's snakes. They warn about those snakes about 18 times. I mean, it's the whole thing for me with Australia where again, my reasonable and correct opinion of what Australia is like is like scorpions far from the sky on you every 30 seconds. They're like, girls, you're going on a picnic to hanging rock today. I'm like, bring your spear gun. Just for context, just for the listener, my brother moved to Australia like less than two weeks. He just got there. After watching. Three weeks. After watching. Picking and sitting. Picking and hanging rock. Yeah. But he is as of 21 days ago at the time of this recording. Did he get bit by a snake? No, I'm just saying. A ralla. It's just so funny to like talk to my brother and be like, I'm loving it here. And David's like fucking hell is taken over the earth. Well aware that Sid D, I think especially, is incredibly cost-of-all in Siddy. It's very nice. I know Australia is nice. I live in America. We can barely feed people. Most of these countries are doing all right. Quite a shitty place right now. Compared to us. Yes. Look, Australia. To go to hanging rock. Yeah, Australia maybe got. Get my ass to hanging rock. You got snakes and bats in the woods. Here we got them in the fucking oval office. Do you know what I'm saying? Whoa. I was told this was not a political podcast. We lied to you. And this is the most political podcast. Do you want some whole and or raw milk? Yeah. What if that's a mulling on that this year? Raw ass, David. I was going to say it is a through line of weir's work. The Australian films very much feel about that tension of Australia being a culture taken, built hostily upon another land that can never totally be conquered. Right? The history, the people, the actual like geographic landscape and the the floor and fauna and all this sort of stuff. And then when he goes over to Hollywood, it does feel like his movies retain that core theme of the tension between two levels of society, you know, or two aspects of reality fighting each other. That is true. It is true. Is it not, David? This one is like, I feel like everything that we're saying, yes. And it like, where is then the space for like the thing that I actually remember about like what this movie makes me feel like. And I presume for the Sophia Coppola, the same thing, which is just like, how about all that? Like pent up sexual energy. Well, that's the big thing we have to talk about here. Which I assume is another thing I don't know much about Australia in the turn of the century, but there were sexual revolutions happening all over at that time. People were reckoning more with like, can we still keep women in a box and teach them to be good, proper girls who, you know, never misbehave, right? Have to wear those awful corsets. Yes. And you know, there's, they just, you know. God, we talk about how hot they must have been making this movie when you see the guys in like fucking four piece suits. Or the policemen in like all black. Here's my line. I told you I had one line watching this movie. I said, I don't think you should wear white to hanging rock. It's a bad choice. They're all, they're like every girl, flowing white dress, even without, even if you're not going to go on to hanging rock and get lost on hanging rock, get swallowed by the rock, you probably don't want to be in that. Maybe we're like hanging rock. A brown jumpsuit with rocks. Maybe that's what you wear. It's like hanging. Oh man, those shoes too. Those are not shoes for the woods. For hanging rock. Yeah. No. I think this movie is tapping into, in a way that's like very similar, very linked to Twin Peaks for me, where it's like, it's got the stream like logic. It's got the central mystery. But the core thing is sort of interrogating the unspeakable like tension of sexual danger for young women in society, right? Like the whole movie is like working off of this kind of dream like fetishization of the purity of the kind of young girl in a painting, frolicking on a countryside. And what no one wants to discuss, which is like the threat of danger that is surrounding them at all times just in their very being. But also their own. I mean, I think that the thing that's interesting in this one and that you see in Virgin Suicides is like, whereas something like, and there are elements of it here. Yeah. When that guy, I see him in like a top hat, that guy when he first shows up. He's like in my brain, he's like a real like Dickens kind of guy. And he's like, yeah, I'm like, I'm scared about what he's going to do to those girls for sure. But it seems like it takes a backseat to those girls being like, I'm taking off my knickers. Like I got to get up on this rock. That they're pushing against. They're pushing against. They're pushing against, collect, you know, they cut the heart cake. Yeah. It feels like, you know, they're pushing against. There's some pent up. Yeah. A transgressive boundary. There's they're they're pent up. They got some energy. They got to get out of it. But that's definitely the paired version suicides thing, which is like it's these swarms of young boys who are obsessed with the idea of these girls, their look, their energy, them being unattainable. Yet none of them are actually kind of the threat or the answer to what was going on inside of them, which is a little unsolvable. And this movie establishes such a web of men surrounding the rock and observing them, where in a dumber movie, you could see it being a not a who done it in a traditional sense. No, I thought of like I spit on your grave, which would have been around the same time. You're pegging all these guys in the vicinity who are all kind of clocking these girls. And yet they're all at a pretty severe distance and they're all just completely freaked out by what happened. Yeah. And if anything are trying to rescue them, but it's like in the Twin Peaks way and Twin Peaks, obviously like provides straight answers at a point, but it's incredibly straight. The most normal answers, but it's more like turning that sexual tension in both directions, what they're feeling internally and what is being projected onto them into a supernatural force that's just hanging over everything, which I think is pretty cool. Really cool. Pretty cool for like, there are so many like Lindsay Anderson type movies about like boys going wild at school. I can't think of a ton like between this and Virgin Suicides. Or right just in general. The pent up like female sexual energy. Now if I google movies about girls at boarding school, it's Google. Yeah. Google will arrest you. I recently asked chat GPT, which I try to not use. I try to not ask it, but I was like, I'm really curious about this AI. Like if I asked it based on all of the information online about my new movie, which is called Teenage Sex and Death, it can't be asked, but tell me the plot of the movie in the style of a Jane Shunburn movie. Like I wanted to see how close it could get. And it said to me, I can't tell you that because you're asking me for descriptions of teenage sex and that is lewd and indecent. How and it said, and it said, how dare you? Yeah. How could you ask me this question? And it said, and I put you on a list. We're like chat gentlemen. Yeah. So above board. David. Yes. Bart, to think about your finances. Oh, don't scare her. It's true, but look, paying off debt, building an emergency fund, saving for something major like buying a home or college or retirement, stuff like that. Thanks to do all three of those in 2026. If you want a tool that helps you plan, project, and proactively achieve those kinds of goals, you can set yourself up for financial success this year with Monarch. Monarch. 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But I think you're right that most especially in a supernatural or vaguely like a horror, mystery, adjacent thing, there is almost always largely because of how few women got to tell these stories ever in this medium. There was almost always this undercurrent of like, is this pointedly kind of salacious and titillating? Are we demonizing the sexuality? Is the sexuality something that's kind of scary that has to be punished versus it all happening in this kind of like... The movie is like mercifully non-literalized in those ways and non-judgmental in a way that now feels like saying that is an ultimate fame praise award. But in the 70s you're like, this was not a thing anyone was fucking doing. Totally. And like the sickness... Yeah. If you try to like find the culprit, obviously like the culprit is very diffuse and kind of comes for them all by the end of the movie. Right. But that it's not a movie about the girls in their hysteria. Right. And then they were like shrunk down in this weird inexplicable tragedy. No, if anything, their hysteria is the most humanizing thing about them. You almost want them to be more hysterical or anyone to be hysterical is certainly. But it's not like, you know, the most humanizing thing about them is that they're just like, you know, the most humanizing thing about them. You almost want them to be more hysterical or anyone to be hysterical at a certain point. Yeah. There's an article I read, I just called it up on something called Sinophilia Beyond by Tim Peel and I have no idea what that site is, but I'm reading it where he talks about like the Aboriginal idea of, I want to find the exact thing, Dream Time, where like there's this sort of four aspects of Aboriginal Dream Time, the beginning of things, the lifeline influence of ancestors, the way of life and death, the sources of power in life. He's like, he feels like this movie is about like they are, you know, encountering an ancient Aboriginal force that like they can't understand in some way. That's like the sort of Australian-ness of this movie that it's like we continue to tamper with like a natural environment we never understood in arriving here, right? And like trying to civilize it. He points out something that I certainly would never thought about, which is that the girls go right to left when they enter the frame and the hero journey tends to be left to right and right to left is more unsettling. Have you ever heard that before? I've never considered this like visual language. I'm thinking about reading Hebrew. Absolutely, or Farsi. Those classic right to left languages. He's got a lot of other ideas like that that are sort of interesting to consider. I feel like when I hear people talk about that, directors talk about that with intentionality, it's usually in terms of establishing a visual language of characters progressing versus regressing. It's interesting to make it a kind of like, are they going against cultural tides thing rather than like moving backwards in their own story? Right. Yeah. I think to me it's like the thing, like something like that is only as good as how much it sticks with you subconsciously afterwards. And like when I think about the language of the girls movement in this movie, I think the thing that sticks out more to me is just like how they're really like, they're not really captured in close-ups that much until pretty far into the movie or like, it feels much more interested in this panoramic, painted kind of aesthetic of like, you're just seeing like 11 of them together, running around. As sort of almost like a hive mind. Yeah. They're like animals, you know, out in their landscape or something. Did anyone see this movie not knowing that they would disappear? Because it's so much part of the selling of the movie. Yeah. Because it's lovely to think about the idea of just watching it being like, what is this? It's a hangout movie. It's a cool hangout movie. Because the first 30 minutes are completely beguiling if you don't know that it's building something. Not beguiling, but like you're just like kind of squinting looking for. A hangout rock. But they give it away in the beginning too. That's what I'm saying. Like I feel like there's no, it's too bad. And it was the whole selling point. Yeah. I'm sure on the TV adaptation, the picnic lasts for six episodes and they only disappear in episode eight. No, no, no. Flashbacks to the picnic. Oh, fuck! Are you serious? No, I don't know. I haven't seen it. Okay. You're right though. It's flashbacks to the picnic and you see it from a lot of different people's perspective and by the end of it, you've learned something that starts with. It sounds like someone knows how the process works for streaming television. Natalie Dormer plays the headmistress, right? She does. She's Mrs. Apple Yard. Let's see what the fucking superstructure is. Kind of wig did they get her in? Oh, God, it's oh my God. Samara Weaving was in there. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go ahead, please. The series starts with her purchasing the house and being like, I could build a school here. It's that one. At least it's not like explorers from like 100 years ago being like, and what should we call this rock? It's kind of hanging. Yeah. I don't know. It starts with the rock being straight and then you see the rock. How it's hanging rock. I mean, it sounds like the mini series is a little more what I was describing of like, it's got a bunch of theorizing after. Yeah, totally. It's like people picking into. That's how you felt those hours. Right. Like what did happen? Could it have been this? Could it have been that? And that's definitely how you improve on this movie. It's a movie just screaming out for improvement. Look, uh, Tell me. There's this one element that I feel like sticks out to me a little bit. Okay, Ben's playing the music. The Pan Pipes. Yeah. It's so pervasive throughout the entire movie. Yeah. But damn, did I vibe with that? I know it rocks. It made me actually really appreciate Pan Flute again. And just to be clear, Ben isn't playing this from his console. He's whipped out of Pan Flute and he's blowing hard on that shit in between, throwing in some hot takes. I just remember it being such a thing in malls, Pan Flutes. You'd see him on the street. It's like a when her troll quiz can like drink a glass of water while the dummy talks. There's a sort of staying and playing the Pan Flute. I think the Pan Flute has gotten a much worse rap than it deserves. Agreed. Yeah. I think it's like something about Enya and pure mood. That's exactly what it is. It's that 90s world music chill out compilation thing that Pan Flute became associated. These are also the ones I'm hearing in my headphones are kind of like, I know Pan Flutes. It's like, I love a deep, you know, that like, oh, yeah, like rainforest cafe. Well, you're talking about the best restaurant in the world. Basically, they were looking for the sound of the movie to speak to the Pan Flutes. And they found it. And Jim McElroy said like he had just watched some, you know, like documentary that there've been this weird haunting music. And he called the producer, they played it. They were like, we love this. It's George Zamfir is the flutist. Floutist Pan Floutist. Sure. And apparently was like, I recorded all that shit years ago. You don't want that. You want some new stuff and start sending new stuff. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no. We want the like haunting Pan Flutes. Like that's why we're calling it. He plugged in his electric flute. I already missed the Pan Flute. And we just played it for a little while. I could listen to it all day. Fans rolled up on the floor going through Pan Flute with girl. At this point, my main YouTube algorithm suggestion is like, it's like an eight-bit image of like a night by a fire. And it's just 10 hours of that Pan Flute music. Yeah. Can I just say, I think you folks are right that there was like a cultural throwing the baby out with the bathwater because Anya and fucking deep moods and whatever we're seeing is what I love. That stuff rock. It rock. This is exactly what I want to say. And here's the thing. We actually never, we have not gotten anywhere further in relaxing music technology. That was the peak. Everything people have tried to do since then to cheer us out backwards. Jean-Michel Jarre. The X-Files theme with some drums underneath it. Fuck. The X-Files theme is so good. There's going to be a new X-Files, right? And Ryan Coogler's producing his new X-Files. Oh, really? Yeah. And like, that's fine. Like, I'm all for new X-Files. I don't care. Like, I'm not worried about the sanctity of the X-Files, which is one of the- Don't touch the theme though. The messiest franchises to ever exist. Sure. But it will be set in contemporary times? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they better not mess with the theme. I asked Jillian Anderson on set if she was going to go back. She's in a movie. I've heard there's space for her. That's how I- I forget what she said on my- Oh, you forgot, huh? Hear me out. I asked someone that question. I was like, it's to Cogni and Anderson back. And I was told like, there's room for them to be back. Like, it sort of can go either way. I got a blockbuster pitch. I've got Skinner. What if all three of them try hooking up? They'll work this time, right? Wait, wait, wait. All three. So are you saying Skinner's the third? Who is the- Is that his name? Mitch Pledgey. Yeah, Skinner. Yeah. He's still going. Who is the Robert Patrick character? Also, the cigarette smoking man. Dog. That guy's still alive. He's with us. It's why the bills came in the Super Bowl. Cigarette smoking man is still alive. William B. Davis is the actor. I mean, the thing that happened with X-Files, which is like- I like the X-Files. It's like foundational to- Of course, me too. Road growing up and all that is- Chris Carter came back, did the new stuff. And it was- God bless it, so heinous. Yeah, it was rough. And it was kind of like, can we take this guy out back? It is crazy. Give the X-Files to anyone else. Three times. Yes. He was like, I think I'm ready to return. And people were like, yeah, movie sucks. He's like, got it. Took the feedback. We're returning with a new season. Yay. Fuck that son. Don't worry. I heard your feedback. Next season's going to be really different. Worse. Just three times and five years. And every time to company in Anderson bring it. Like it's not like very- It's just him. There's like a sushi restaurant. You remember that one? They're stuck in that- And it's like technology kept- You know, it's like- It's Siri. X-Files doing Siri. Sometimes you don't have the rope of what people are thinking about anymore. You know, he let go of the rope. 100% he let go of the rope. It's fine. And like you watch the X-Files now and you're like, if someone did like, Mulder falls into a coma and a Native American man revives him now, that wouldn't work. But I'm okay with it because it's the 90s, right? 100%. Yeah, exactly. But also, is that a perfect example of a show that needed the churn and the pressure of being- Planning up. 22 episodes a season? Yeah, and needing to like spread out the work and bring in other voices. Oh, that's what- And knock it up your own ass and think about it too much. That's why 22 episodes is how TV should be. Because then you have to make 10 random episodes about bullshit. Right. Which rocks. I asked for no one will let me take a meeting on the Buffy reboot, but I've been asking obviously. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing I keep saying when I ask is, you have to do 22 episodes and six of them need to be unwatchable. Yeah. Right, right. There should be six that are canonically scalable, but good. Yeah. You know, in their bad way. Six that are just about like some bullshit, like they pick up a toy and they're like, oh, it's a haunted toy. Like Buffy's got like a new cousin that you've never heard about anymore. This is my problem is that now people go like, I'm going to take four years to make 10 or eight episodes of a season with complete intentionality and control. And you watch it and you're like, still six episodes are bad. It's still, it's always going to be six bad episodes. And it's better that you have a 22 episode season. And those six episodes are at least kind of like. Oh my God, a 22 episodes. I mean, I've been thinking about this because I'm working on TV and like a 22 episodes season. Also like the holiday episode of Dead Art. Absolutely. Well, yes. Sweep's week is gone. Where did Sweep's week go? Sweep's week is gone. Like Sweep's secret is like everyone wants to fuck each other for three weeks on the show and then all the repression gets stuff right back in the bottle. You know, like we don't do it again for a while. It is a crazy thing to consider that even the biggest TV shows used to be able to go like for one week only Bruce Willis. Yeah. And the ratings would spike up by 10 million people. It didn't matter if everyone else had like, I haven't watched that in two years. They're like, oh, I got to see the Bruce episode. I got to see the episode where that it's all dream sequences or whatever. The third rock 3D episode after the Super Bowl or whatever. There you go. Yeah. I mean, also episodes after the Super Bowl. Another thing that's gone. I know they still exist, but like I want to see House watch the Super Bowl, right? Like, you know, or like Terrell Owens appears, whatever, whatever dumb shit they would do to acknowledge. The calculation of even if this episode isn't in conversation with the Super Bowl, it has to be. We need to nod to it. The biggest episode we need to ever do. Yeah, we need a little something extra. It needs to be worthy of the post Super Bowl slot. TV used to be so good. Jane, the TV show that you were doing is based on a very specific fixed work. And when we have talked about for years, because so many Blank Check filmmakers have like flirted with adapting it. And it's a thing that we are constantly telling Ben he needs to read. And when it was announced that you are adapting Charles Burns' Black Hole, Ben was like, fuck, it's finally time. If Jane's doing it, I got to read it. Not yet. But I've got to do it. He's saying he's going to do it. I don't do it. Really in the comics late. I will make a promise that within a month, when this episode is really sound. You'll have read it. You'll devour it. Once you start it. Yeah. I love those Charles Burns, Tintin things. You ever read those? No. X down. Really good. Oh, I have. It's great to, I'll say, is Panfleet. You're back to the Panfleet. Yeah, let's circle back to Panfleet. Just good. And maybe let's play it again. Sure. That's nice. Now that's nice. It's lower. Right. Okay. Lower. This is your thing, Jane? This is your jam? No, it doesn't. Not lower enough. Yeah, there it is. There it is. There it is. Okay. The slightly octave down. David, you love spas and massages and stuff like that. I do. And this is what's playing, baby. I love this stuff. Because I got a massage for the first time in a very long time. Where'd we go? Somewhat recently. I'll tell you off mine. Okay. And they were playing like the fucking Technover jam. That's what I hate is these hip places feel like, oh, Panfleet is the lame. I can't play it. And I'm like, you're stressing me out right now? Yeah, it's time to return on the V. I will calm down. I think it has something to do with like, like some of that like Lilith fair scorn. Sure. You know, like kind of spilled over into the Panfleet. What else rules Lilith fair? Lilith fair. Good. Sarah McLaughlin. Good. And you? Good. Now, is this just that I'm growing older and I miss my youth? Yeah, we lay now probably. Almost definitely. So the curls disappeared. Not to do the plot of Picnic and Hanging Rock, which is a, you know, not a plotless film, but a loosely scripted film, I guess. They go up to the rock. Yeah, they take a nap. A kind of mysterious urine nap. And you kind of want to take a nap in the best way. They're on good. They seem like they're on drugs. Yes. They're in some kind of odd trance. It's like euphoric, right? Like they're in a state. They work themselves into this like, because they probably never get to do something like this and be like remotely independent. But it also, it looks like a cult like ritual, despite you knowing that there was not a kind of intentionality or planning. They all just kind of like lay down at the same time. Except one of them knew she was going to disappear. Right. That's glasses girl had the premonition, right? Is it glasses girl? And isn't she talking about a dream within a dream? She's like quoting Edgar Allen power. I wrote one line that I really liked. What did they say? They said, Joseph Goren Levitt was chasing me up the walls. Isn't that what she's saying? Where is it? I have it here somewhere. Most human beings are without purpose, but they're performing some function unknown to them. Good shit. Shit rocks. That's like the pan fluto quote. And then they wake up. The bugs crawl on them when they're sleeping. Yes, although not on the girls who don't get taken and then eventually return. But yes. It was Miranda, I think is the one who says that she is going to disappear. Yes. It's her roommate. Miranda is kind of the main one. That's so Miranda. And she's a lawyer, right? And she's a little spikier than the other girls. Evan Handler? Yes. No, that's Charlotte. I mean, Evan Handler plays Charlotte's husband. That's what you're referring to. Miranda is the one who marries the guy who's like, I'm like this. Right, with glasses. And then in the new show, she's exploring her sexuality. She introduces a T-D-S. There's T-D-S. Really? She explores her sexuality. She sure does. You ever watched what's it called? And just like that? You know, in China? I haven't seen enough. So many episodes said they have per season. Not enough. 22. I'm going to make this case because people are like, it's kind of demented. And I'm like, imagine if they got 22. Imagine the shit they would have done if they had to do 22. They did 10 episodes a season. No, I think it's like America is waiting in bated breath to see like what the pit season 8 feels like. Yeah. Oh God. But the pit is right. I mean, that's why people are freaking out about the pit because you're, you know, it's fucking like it feels like old TV. Turn it out. Is it some of the juice that Taylor shared in shows too? I keep reading these clickbait headlines for your like, I haven't seen my husband. Belly Bob Thornton answers a door with a boner. And I'm like, piss sounds like when TV was good. Well, that's also that even if those shows are 10 episodes each, she's writing all of them. So he's getting so tired. He's found a way to get into the psychological headspace of 22 episodes a season. No, not enough people, not enough main characters, but not lead characters dying in car crashes. Perfect. Oh my God. Or a baby not die. Episode 14. Episode ends with car acts, you know, just like a car like flipping over. Yeah. And then it's to be continued. And then there's the greatest. Native Americans bring multiple. The greatest in the world was when that happened to the X-Files like season two. It didn't take them long when TV was like produced on like a podcast schedule where you're like, they're filming the episode now I will see in a month. And you would read like Michelle Rodriguez and Cynthia Watros got arrested for drunk driving. And then three weeks later, it's like, oh, both of them are dead. Fuck, Ana Lucia bought it. Nothing was under wraps. All right, Piana Lucia, she was a wild one. She was she was great. Did you watch Lost or were you not lost? Oh yeah, of course. I remember we once talked about firefly. That you were activated by the say fire. Yeah, that was my. Originary trauma. Right. Was there was their campaign to like send in something where people sending in. It was kind of the. What are the. Definitely was what what are they the. What was the object? Brown coats, maybe. Well, that's how how firefly fans identify themselves. Yes, they call themselves Brown. They might have also sent some coats in. I just always liked that thing where you'd be like this. And I was in the cancel show and you're like. I'm scared to rewatch firefly in 2026. 20,000 people sent in plastic knives because it's their way of communicating to the president of the network that they want their show back. Jane, I haven't watched it since. Yeah, since college. I wonder I truly wonder because I really loved firefly so much and it was important. It like lifted me out of a deep depression. Is that did they have a word that they used instead of fuck? Yes, they did. What is it? Because they had the whole like they would speak Chinese as well. Oh, totally. I can't remember what they would say. But what was of course, battle circle, like to get frack. I remember the show that it was the CBS apocalypse show Jericho built a Ferris wheel. Right. Right. Yes. There was some show that built a Ferris wheel outside the like office of whoever ran like CBS and she was like, fine, Jesus. And like another season. What are you doing? That just felt like there's something that felt so innocent to that versus like the Snyder cult is building bombs or whatever they're doing. So the girls wake up and they walk. Anthrax in the mail. Yeah. The clock stopped at noon. All this spooky shit happens and they walk in a trace like into a crevice, I guess. Yeah. And Edith just screams and that's it. Well, I feel like the four girls break off before the rest falls asleep. Yeah, they've already climbed up to hanging rock or climbed to the cliff. And there's one who's like, no, no, we got to go back. Right. Yeah. And then they come back later and they're like the girls are missing. Right. The rest of the class comes back late at night. I love that scene. Yeah. You would like talking to the headmistress? Yeah, because you're like, if I was that headmistress, you're really in her shoes figuring out something's gone wrong. Well, she just like launches immediately into like reprimanding and like laying down the law. And then the other adults have to come and be like, you don't understand what just fucking happened. Right. Like we're also was skipping over the rocks are talking kind of they're like shaking and making noises. There was like, I was seeing vapor kind of coming out. It's so mysterious. I was really. It's awesome. Like so hypnotized by it. Yeah, no, it's so awesome. And there's no way to define even what it really is. They got a recording of an earthquake that they use for like some of those weird primal noises like they would slow it down and fudge with it and stuff, you know, but like that was what they're doing. But maybe what it is is it's the rocks tummy rumbling because he's so hungry. Oh, he's like, need girls. Again, the rock is not very big to my to my eyes when we see it in wide shots. It's kind of like an agro crag style set of, you know, or thank you for acknowledging the importance of the agro crag. And I do hope the agro crag was specifically inspired by picnic. And we should say that Moe will be on the next episode. Yeah, Moe is on the next. But like the kids who lost the guts should have just been like disappeared into a void. Yeah. It's like they shall never return. But you're kind of like, where did these girls even find space to disappear? Right. That's what they just go behind a rock and like, you know, and then of course one of them is eventually found like in there. Yes. Well, we'll get to that permission to make a bad joke. Yeah. Is the show a little excitement? Yes. Go make your bad permission to make a great joke. Yeah. Let's hear it. Okay. Is the reason they disappeared because it was the rocks cheat date? And he eats whatever he wants on his cheat day. Right. That after like six days of grilled chicken breasts and shit and pteramonics. He gets three Victorian girls. He has like the stack of 15 pancakes and will the rock even go to the Oscars? It's really a machine. Just got the one numb. It did for makeup, which excellent makeup. Don't you think he'll go to fucking plug live action Moana? I thought you were asking about hanging rock. I was conflating. That actually feels like a Conan. Like I wish Conan could host in a picnic and hanging rockier. Yeah. Like he's like, and now the rock from picnic and hanging rock. And then he started screaming. What was the last picnic and hanging rockier at the Oscars? It's been a little while. I've made this joke with the AR 15 from weapons. That should host. Where it's just like costume design is integral to, you know, it's just floating like this. Well, a dune stand where I'm playing the piano was fun. It was great. But I do want now that like Conan's returning for a second year, I want him to go full like character parade. Well, he's just preparation H Raymond. Right. Like do you like 20 here's the more fized objects from Oscar nominated films. No, the pitches and he should steal this. The fucking opening video is Amy Madigan makes him run like this through all of the other movies. That's good. Right. Like she just can't. And because like Conan and Amy Madigan is cooking with gasoline. Like the two of them will be great together. Yeah. And he's just doing this. I mean running through Marty Supreme or whatever. It was their intent to bring back the and they were going to do it. It got foiled for a couple reasons that make sense. But I'm hoping I'm praying this episode comes out the day after the Oscars. I hope Conan did a great job. I hope he went through all the movies. I hope he didn't like get up there and say the answer. He ran through them all. I'm sure he would. How did Blue Moon do in those nominations? Two. Best actor, best screenplay. Right. Not bad. You like Blue Moon? I loved Blue Moon. Blue Moon. Who are you fucking kidding? I love that film. We need more bar movies. You know my favorite thing about Blue Moon? That they had to take an approach to shooting around him being fake short. Yeah. In a way that makes you feel like a Muppet. Yeah. That it feels like the visual strategy they employ for incorporating a Muppet into a real world set. I mean when what's in an EB white. Yeah. When EB white shows up as the like you know the celeb cameo. Yes. That's when you know. He's the fucking Captain America of Blue Moon. It is crazy that that movie. Where they're like and he's like and I'm thinking of writing a book about a little mouse. It is insane that movie is so good that it does like six walk horror. Right. Like here's little boy. Baby Stevenson time. Right. And I don't ding it for any of them. No it's awesome. Blue Moon is a blast. That was just I was hooting and hollering and feeling crazy about you know Lauren's heart. Yeah. Oh my god. I went through the arc of being like yeah. No this is good for what it is. It's fun to buy the end being like is this most devastating thing I've ever seen. Does this rock and roll so ours. Twitter's good. Yeah. I went to see it. I did my own double feature at the little movie theater upstate was playing both that and the. The black phone too. No. No. Yeah I did see black phone too. No. No. No. Vogue. Vogue. Yeah. Because there were two different kind of barbenheimers you could do. You could do new val moon. Or you could do black and blue. Blue phone too. You could do the two hops. Oh that's true. That's true because I forgot of anything. Ethan not really in black phone too that much. I think he phoned that one in. I literally. Did you like a new bar walk. Not really. Yeah. It was okay. You know what I was also hungry and I knew I was doing the second one and so I did leave halfway through to go get a chicken parm hero. Well I mean chicken parm hero that didn't put the movie over the line for you. I buried the lead on this. Plus there. Let's talk about black phone too though because. Please. I feel like I you know choose your battles in terms of like I'm a filmmaker it's not. You don't want to talk. You don't want to talk too much about other filmmakers but one film I feel comfortable talking about. It's black phone too. I have to say. Did you like black phone one. I didn't but. Neither did I. I think that it's a whole different ball game because I and I. Sure. Yes. I only saw black phone too because people were like but this one's kind of fun. It's kind of like night made like it makes it night. Right. Because he's dead so he's just like a weird monster. I felt like a pretty complete statement. Yeah. And I was puzzled by them attempting to make a second one and then I saw the trailer and I'm like if you're using this as a way to backdoor the new black door. A new kind of like. A hundred comic points like. Yeah. You know whatever. There's a new like. The black phone. The black phone keeps his mask. There's a bad guy. Right. The phone goes to hell like whatever. But I was a the grabber. The grabber. Try harder. He grabbed. Absolute. Try harder. He grabbed people. I understand that was his name in the first one but if he's going to become supernatural he's got to rebrand. Yeah. Yeah. So to what. Phony. Freddie grabber. Yeah. He. No. Grabby Kruger. Full spoilers ahead for black phone too. Warning. No one dies. He kills not a single victim. Good. Okay. Everyone survives. Right. Everyone is Christian. Good. The Christian stuff in that movie is amazing. It's so did you guys neither of you guys saw black phone too? You saw it. Did you David? I didn't see it. No. All right. I'm I'm I'm speaking into. No. No. I heard I heard about this. I think it's good because I for too long these horror films have presented lead characters with abominable behavior and actions that I don't condone and these filmmakers are presenting it like they're heroes. I watched these Jason movies. I'm supposed to be rooting for this guy. He's killing people. I like to hear that the grabber is is obeying the law. But there's this kind of like the attitude that the movie takes is that being a Christian is sexy. What? Yeah. Like in a good way. Yeah. That like there's like one character who's like and I believe in God and then someone else is like that's sexy. It's really I this would have been better if you guys had seen it but uh is the grabber Jewish like what is the frame here? The grabber is basically um black phone to it's like a camp right? Yeah, there's some element of that they get him to a camp somehow And guess what is lurking at this camp grabber a phone a payphone. Yeah, sure. David and guess who's calling on that payphone grabber. Yeah, okay. Good. Hey, yeah, that's and also the grabbers victims again. That's because it's like they're just repeating the It's like oh the classic thing that happens with the grabber is that the dead they talk to you. Yeah, the victims help you and pump you up. All right. Which I didn't really like in the first one. When they pick up the phone is Ethan Hawke like they offered me 10% of first dollar gross and I didn't even have to come to set. This really worked out with Sinister and uh and the Purge. He did one day on on set of black phone too. That's what I heard. He's and he is grabbing on the store. Also like honestly like do not bemoan Ethan Hawke pulling one hour nice work if you can grab it. He's got he's got one of those like um, you know, like the grabby kind of hand things. Are you fucking kidding me? No, I wish like one of the toys. Yeah, he's got a couple of those toys. And you know, like extender. You're making this sound excellent. Most of the movie takes place on like a CGI frozen lake. I will not be tricked into watching this movie as I was tricked into watching the first black phone. By some people being like, it's kind of interesting and I watched and I was like, no, thank you. But it has the same like pretension of seriousness. That's what I find is often true. It's got to Eric's movies. It's about trauma. Yeah, the black phone is about trauma. I recently watched his day the earth should still remake. Don't know why I did that. It's not very good. He's made a couple of movies I like. Name them. Doctor Doctor. Give me the news. I like Sinister. I think Sinister is like pretty effective. Like I don't think it's like some masterpiece. I don't know that I've seen Sinister. I never saw Sinister. Sinister is like actually gnarly. And. Content projector. Fucked up home movies. It seems like there's something fundamentally at odds in the black phone one thing that where it's like it wants to be like this guy is like actually just like a pedophile and we're just going to like linger in his like absolute grotesque shit and also like we don't like that. We want you to know that that. The grabber is no good. Yeah. I think the grabber actually should be arrested and maybe like taken to court for some of these crimes. Maybe the justice system needs to have a say on the grabber. The grabber meets Lady Gaga in prison. Someone's got to save the grabber. Yeah. I guess that's kind of it. I mean I sort of enjoy Doctor Strange but like that you know the Marvel movies are always a grab bag of who really. Grabber bag. Yeah. Indeed. That's about it because I didn't like Exorcism of Emily Rose which is sort of his breakout. Never saw that one. Deliver us from evil. That's a movie he made. Never saw that one. No I haven't seen that one. Yeah. That's an episode in the Miscore I think. I've been trying to figure out what movies to play at my birthday party and I was googling best comedies and I came across a letterbox list that he. The Derrickson made? Yeah. That Derrickson made. A Scott Derrickson letterbox list of the 100 best comedies of all time. And you're going to do those for your birthday. All 100. One to one. Chronological. It was a good list you know. He seems to have perfect list. Yeah. It was a good list. Do you remember his number one? It was a chronological. I don't think that was number one. Okay fair enough. It was more like 100 years, 100 last. But you wanted to do comedy. Workers exiting the factory was this. I was just I was looking for inspiration. You know. Do you do a theme for your birthday? You know I did last year. What did you do last year? Uh well actually this year I was like I'm thinking I might do VR as a theme and my best friend was like wasn't that last year's theme? Hmm. It's like lawnmower man. And then I was like no last year's theme was time travel and then my best friend was like didn't you show Strange Days last year? Great movie. There's no time travel in that movie. No. No. There is VR. Squids. I don't think I'm going to do a theme this year. Fair enough. I think I just I want to show Pee Wee's Big Adventure. I mean. I'm going to Gryffindor. Can I go wrong? Um I like the Pee Wee and Picnic now get to sit next to each other in the Criterion closet. Oh sure alphabetically. Yeah close to. Yeah absolutely. Yeah. Um. Performance in between. The Pee's man that's where it's at. Perfumed Nightmare. Yeah. David. Yes. Ring-ring. Ah who's that? No. David in fact. I see why you were confused. It sounded like a doorbell or perhaps even the ringing of a phone to introduce an ad read character. But in fact it's an ad read character. It's an exciting new ad read prop. My hand chimes. Okay what oh. Um then why are you ringing those? Well I'm ringing my ceremonial chimes to announce our new sponsor on the podcast Chime. Chime listen Chime is changing the way people bank. Not like the salt school banks that charge you when you overdraft charge you with monthly fees. Hilt for you not the one percent. And it's not another banking app. It unlocks smarter banking for everyday people with products like MyPay. Which gives you access to up to $500 to your paycheck any time and getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Some old banks still don't do this. There's no overdraft fees. Yeah. No minimum balance fees. Yeah. No monthly fees like I said. It makes your everyday spending work harder by delivering real rewards and progress. It's got some stacked benefits if you ask me. You can earn up to three percent APY on savings. That's seven times higher than a traditional bank. Add that to the stack. Rated five stars by USA Today. Real humans. 24 seven. Rated five stars is the customer service. Well so the people will pick up the phone when you call them. And you go good job. Thank you for that good service. Sounds like you're sort of dragging out the call there. But I mean that's nice enough. And they've got a great way to build credit history with your own money. They've got a new card that unlocks safer credit building cash back. That's the sound of me running the card against the chimes. Again no annual fees. No intros. No strings attached. You're going to get one point five percent cash back on eligible chime card purchases. There are strings attached to the chimes. That's just the structure of how chimes work. When you get qualifying direct deposits. Okay. My younger self would have benefited from this. I needed something like this back when I was overdrafted once in a while. Lil David. And it would those fees. The adventure is a little David. You could say I was a little bit odd in those days. You're a little odd. Little odd. Okay. I was ODing. Overdrafting. It took a while to get there. And you know what. It could have meant some other things. And I'm glad I did it. Good. Good. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking. Be free today. It takes just a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.com slash blank check. That is chime.com slash blank check. Chime is a financial technology company. Not a bank. Banking services. A secured chime visa credit card and my pay line of credit provided by the bank or bank NA or Stride Bank NA. My pay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com slash fees info. Advertised annual percent and yield with chime plus status only. Otherwise 1.00 percent APY applies. No mean balance required. Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. What do we discuss? Well, the girls are gone and this has been record but I'm like, what are the other things here? Some here's some things in this movie. There are these like late movie revelations that I kind of did a double take on when we find out that now we're getting really deep into the lore but that's Sarah. Essentially the main character. So Sarah is sort of the main character, the girl who doesn't get to go on the trip. The survivor. Right. She's, is she the sister of that other guy? Yes. Why? How? That's one of the, I will say the deleted scenes in theatrical cut. Maybe explain that. No, no, I watch them. They're more in depth on that. And I think that feels more elusive in the director's cut where you're like, why is this kind of just not it at without really being. There's like five minutes left in the movie and all of a sudden I'm finding out that those two characters who never interacted or your brother and sister. Yeah. There's like earlier scenes in theatrical cut that are not bad but I understand him just being like, you know what, this is not where the action is. Right. I mean, they basically just got separated when the, because she was at the orphanage and then I guess somehow ended up at the school and they lost touch. I think it is. And then it turns out that she, her tuition hasn't been paid at a certain point. Right. Like some benefactor or whatever guardian. Right. But it's, it's a reflection of like, if you are not born into class and wealth in this kind of society, right? Yeah. Like there are two pathways. They can put a man to work and they can try to like finish a young woman to be married off to someone rich. Right. And so she's sort of sent into this like coddled training ground to try to make her a proper lady of value. Whereas he is sent to work for some well off family. Yeah. But for friends, their son. Yes. Who's son? The rich family that. That other boy. Bernie works for that other boy and they together in the woods when they witness. Right. My girls walking to the top of the mountain. And then, right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then it, yeah, makes us effort to try to, if not rescue them at least try to follow up and understand what happens. Did this come after the go between the Loci film? It's an incredible movie. Thank you for shouting it out. Good question. That film came out in 1971. Yeah. And it's also based on. I feel like there's some go between leading into this one. A movie that my father's favorite movie of all time. It was the go between. Sensitive man. No, Saturday night and Sunday mornings was his. No, that's the movie that my dad was like that movie is about my life when I was at age. Right. The way my father reacted to Marty Supreme. That's you. That's the kid at the end. The way my father reacted to Black Phone 2. Grab her. I just wonder why your name was Jane Grabber or something bro. I'm hyphenated. But go between Todd Haynes used the score from go between for me December. Yes, of course. Just used it. Just one for, and when I brought it up to him, he was like, yeah, rocks, right? Doesn't that movie rock? It does rock. Also that book is incredible. The book is incredible. I read it a few years back. It is incredible. But so right. So you have Michael who's the English boy, the rich boy, who is just like haunted I guess haunted by that he can't fix it. Right? Is that the simplest way to put it? He has these vivid dreams of Miranda where she's sort of like a bird, right? Or a swan. Like, but like it's like, it feels like he's also just like, I was there. I was watching. He was the last, they were the last two people to see them. And I like let them disappear. Am I wrong to say that like it feels like the film, there's something like a little rapey with those two. There's something at least like creepily voyeuristic about what they're doing. They're like, look, a bunch of girls. Like they also just kind of appear in front of them. The movie is playing off the energy of something significantly worse and more inexplicable happening before anything bad is able to happen from their actions. Like if I was writing the mini series, those boys would be suspect. And it's quiet in the movie, but it is, you know, it's not hard to read that in. And then instead they become almost obsessed with. Figuring it out. They almost feel a little emasculated by the fact that it's not a thing they can solve. They can't be like Prince Charming and save the princesses. But I also think part of it is the inexplicable nature of it is breaking their brains to witness something that they cannot even get their heads around. But his buddy is Birdie. Yes. Albert, right? Who's like Australian. Albert's the one who finds Irma, the one who doesn't disappear. Who doesn't know what happened. Yes. And like her feet are untouched. Right. So it's like it's not even, it's like she does seem to have maybe been suspended in return. Does he go pass out, ends up with the same bruises. And then when they find him, he has the swath of cloth in his hand. Totally. No, it's Michael who does that. Yeah, that's okay. And then Albert goes to the rock after that happens, finds Irma. She doesn't know what happened. And then Albert is the one who, yes, recounts the dream where, I guess it's sort of revealed that Sarah was his sister, I guess. And that she in this dream essentially said, I've got to go. And then it's revealed that she threw herself off the building and crashed through the greenhouse. This is the end of the movie. Well, now, yeah, you're jumping all the way to the end. I'm just telling you. Well, because no, this whole, as we're saying, the whole other thing is that she's told Mrs. Appleby, Mrs. Appleby. The headmistress, whatever. That they're behind on the payments. Right. And she's also doing the brass tacks of like, the great tragedy in her eyes of three girls going missing is that's three fewer tuitions in the immediate beyond even the fact that now The reputation of the school. They're surrounded with these horrible fucking vibes and the business is never going to recover from this. Yeah. So. Yeah, I don't think I want to send my kid to the hanging rock school. But so just as a way to immediately cut costs, she's just like. I'm sending them to looming rock. Right. Yeah. Maybe Blackphone 2 school or whatever. Let's kick this freeloader to the curb. Yes. Yeah. You should no longer have any fun. She's becoming more cruel and merciless and this. And she's, you know, expresses she had a terrible experience at the orphanage previously. Yes. But she, I don't know, but then, but the headmistress in the end, it's like, she's like coping with something too. It almost feels like. Well, I think she had a connection to her colleague who we haven't really mentioned is also one of the people that disappears. Totally. Yes. Yes. Right. Oh, and there's some kind of like maybe there, there's some sexual repression. Yeah. It's hard. It's going on. You know, it's very hard to read into some of this stuff, but it feels like it's there. I believe it's her name. Because then there's also Jackie Weaver. Yes. Who's the. Who is sleeping with that guy. The sort of groundskeeper. Yeah, they kind of have like a Gosford park upstairs. This is the go betweeny thing. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah, exactly. And you get the sense that the headmistress is kind of pissed off about that. Yes. You guys are having sex. Yes. Yes. But it's. This is all stuff that's happening in the movie where you are like, what am I to grab on here? Yeah. Like what's the plot? Like what is the ongoing story here? The girls have already left the hanging rock. Right. The girls are gone and now I'm with everybody who's sort of grasping on for an explanation or a way to proceed. The detail of the teacher who disappeared. Sorry again. I don't remember her name. Ms. McCraw. Ms. McCraw is witnessed by the girl who runs off. Yes. That she is just in her underwear walking around. Weird. What's going on there? What happened? Was she hypnotized, possessed? Like it's, I don't know. I think they were horned up. I think that rock was hornin' them up as a hot day. It's St. Valentine's Day. Yeah. And then there's this. It's true. You know, they discover Irma and there's this moment where Irma is brought to say goodbye to the girls and they're all hanging there. That's a great scene. They're doing like a dance lesson because it's like those wooden boards that they're all holding on to that are suspended from strings, right? To like do their posture, right? I assume that's what that is. To do like their ballet moves. Their do ballet stuff. And then they all just go feral and start like screaming at them. Because they're like, you did it. Like it's your fault. They want, they are the American critics saying. Explain it to us. Solve the mystery. I think not to simplify it. We can just be like, we can't simplify it and we leave it to you. You're saying we do podcasts? Exactly. Now that we've said that, you can also go ahead and simplify it. We all acknowledge that, yes, part of it is just kind of like. I don't claim to have the ultimate reading, but this is what I feel while watching this movie. We talked about it a bit in our true grit episode in our Cohen series. But that like the ending of that film, which I find so powerful, is kind of like, this young girl is broken by this experience. Because after this, going on this fucking adventure that like leaves her down an arm, but also has these like high highs and low lows, the notion of like, great, and now go to finishing school and like make yourself a proper wife or someone to buy and like, you know, funnel into the system is just a thing that she cannot wrap her head around anymore. And I think a lot of this movie is about, to me, in my view, a society that is not giving these women any outlet to ever like express any emotions or autonomy. So all these things of like, what are these like repressed unspoken things going on beneath the surface? It's not that the movie isn't communicating them to us. It is that these characters do not even see a pathway to being able to communicate them to each other, or perhaps even admit them to themselves. And what is like motivating them to go to that rock is like being horned up, but it's also this feeling of like, Jesus Christ, are we just like stuck on this conveyor belt for the rest of our fucking lives? And I think it's part of what makes everyone so freaked out about them disappearing is to a certain degree, it's like, well, this is scary, what ominous kind of unknown thing is lurking around here, but also other than that, what's our future? We're all going towards the exact same fucking thing. Don't like it. No. And like, you know, this girl gets told that she's going to get kicked out of the school. She immediately is like, well, I guess it's suicide. There's like no third option for these people. And not that the group of girls go to the rock with ideations of death to begin with, but it's more just this feeling of like exploration of, is there anything else out there, even for a moment before we have to return to like the straight line we're expected to walk on? Because the world of this movie is very small. And some of that you can say is like budget limitations, but I think much like, you know, Halloween gaining power from not being able to afford extras. There's something about how limited the scope is of the world this is contained within the fact that, you know, we see the police coming in and trying to solve it, but the movie doesn't zoom out to like this becoming a national news story in a way that really, really broadens its aperture. You're stuck in this like very kind of claustrophobic existence the whole time. And death is like kind of the only way out of it. Sure. I mean, that is the way out for Sue. And we learn it's the way out for Mrs. Zappleyard, right? Like, Rock comes for them all. She goes to the rock, climbs it and dies is what we're told, right? Right. Like her body was found. She friggin jumps off. Yeah. Or she jumped off. Lose lost her dang mind. Can I give you my read on what I think happens to the girl? You're like the Australian cop at the shooting in Apple. Damn, I lost her damn mind. Yeah. I think, and this is just, you know, how I've always read the movie, they go inside the slit in the rock and Bill and Ted are just there with their phone booth. Totally. And they're like, come with us. We're going to go see so crates. They bring them to Sandy in the 80s and they have a grand old time and they're like, if you don't mind, we'll stay here. I mean, do Bill and Ted fuck? Each other? They should. The medieval babes, what are you talking about? They're married. They have children. Great. Yeah. One of them is played by Jack Haven. Yeah. Cool. And some are weaving. I saw that movie once in COVID. It's gone. I'm sorry. Not bad. I remember having a totally fine time. I've been pushing to do it on Patreon. We had it on the schedule for a moment. We did think about it. We did. We can bring it back. Yeah. I just love all three of those movies. Same. Yeah. They're great. They're fun. The second one is so good. The bogus journey one. That movie distressed me as a child. Well, it's because it's weird. It's very scary. Yeah. Yeah. You like bogus journey? It's the one with the death. I don't think I've ever seen it. Oh, Jane. Cool. It's cool. I would have guessed that bogus journey was like one of the most influential films on your work. I've seen parts of it on Comedy Central for sure. You clearly have gotten there without having seen it, but I would strongly recommend you see it. You know what else I haven't seen? What? Princess Bride. You know what? That's one for me too. I've seen The Princess Bride like once maybe, but it's one of those movies that's canonical for people that I am like, I don't have much of a relationship with that movie. The other big one for me that I think it might finally be time for, because I just had an idea yesterday for like a, not a gender swap, like more of like a moral swap. They could take good and make it evil is Forest Gump. Well, hey now. I mean, you're on to something. That's a good, good starting point. Right. So your idea is to take Forest Gump and turn him into a good character instead. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. See what I did there, Ben. I like it. I've never seen Forest Gump, but I know the, I know the idea. It's quite a film. Forest Gump is fucking stupid and bad, but also, you know, pretty watchable. I watch, I've been on a Zemeckis kick. I watched, um, he's made some amazing movies. Who framed Roger Rabbit I watched for the first time in a while. What a movie. What a picture. The best. Unbelievable. It's my favorite of his. I think I was actually, the last time I was on here, maybe talking a lot about the polar express because I had just watched it for the first time. We, so we covered him years ago. We covered him in a deepest, darkest pandemic. And, uh, we, we, we spent a lot of time thinking about the man. But David, I, I just, my daughter loves the polar express and David has been stuck in a hell of polar. It's not a hell. It's a, it's a strange world. I don't know that you feel like you like the express. I loved it. I loved it. So, you know, I watched it before I had kids and I was like, what a weird waxy movie. And then I watched it with my daughter on TV and I was like, yeah, but at least she likes it or whatever. Then I took her to see it in theaters. The Nighthawk had it. Some of it kind of rips. You're also skipping over 80 additional times she made you watch it at home. I've seen it a lot. I've seen them a lot. That's like a, that movie is like, whatever, what do they call this like thing? This, that, that people say my movies are like, where it's kind of like, um, like liminal, you know, like that's a liminal movie. It, that polar express is a liminal movie. I don't think your movies are, although they're not liminal like polar express. Polar express, like you're like, cause to me, liminal, which of course is in the eye of the beholder, but like, it's like, you're in the train car of the polar express and you're like, I can imagine this going on forever. I'm in hell. Right. Exactly. Like I go to another train car, looks the same. And that movie has salad fingers. And now we're getting a liminal space movie this year. Right. The back rooms. Yeah. Oh yeah. Totally. Directed by like a 19 year old, which I'm all for. I'm like, yes, let's have 19 year olds make creepy pasta. And the train conductor is in that, right? Yeah. He's going to be there. Yeah. He's going to be like, welcome to that ballerette. That little, that little hot, hot, hot, hot. I mean, it's something that my daughter has not clocked and I keep waiting to see if she ever does where I'm like, this movie is sinister. He's not nice. No. He's really weird and mean to them. He's quite mean. Yeah. And I know that's sort of the bit of like, oh, he's kind of stern, but like, you know, he's got a heart. But you're like, he doesn't. You've got a sense of the kid who I feel like reacts to those things. Yeah. But she likes the rules, you know, and there's a lot of rules in polar express. A tremendous amount of rules. Right. One of them, of course, being feel free to put ice cubes inside your hot chocolate. Oh no, never, never let it cool. Number, this phone came out. I'm doing the box of this thing. He's skipping so far ahead. He was about to tell us number five. Number five. No. This one came out in Australia in 1975. Do we have any final thoughts on picnic at Hanging Rock? Well, I had to create the space to leave it over. Oh, should I just play Pan Flute? Yeah. Do that over the box. Pan Flute in there. Yeah. This one came out in Australia in 1975. But then, you know, sort of slowly works its way around the world. It does make a lot of money in Australia. It doesn't come out in America. As far as I can tell, Griff, until 1979, February 2nd, 1979. The year of, there you go. Yeah, there we go. Number, so I'm finding that I'm giving you the box office week for the second February 1979. Okay. Okay. Number one of the box offices is a superhero film. It's been number one for like two months. It's a big movie. It's called Superman. Superman. Do you cover Superman, Jane? Who's that? Chris Faroof. Where's he from? He's kind of a Superman. Is that guy who played Atticus Finch? No. He's a newspaper. I've actually never seen the original Superman. It's pretty good. I should watch it. Richard Donner. Yeah. 75% of it is the best shit on Earth. Is it Brando? Yeah. Oh, I got to see it. Brando has been tightly woven into a Kryptonian suit. Shouldn't I watch it? And I haven't seen the new Superman, but I kind of wanted to. The new Superman's fun. Yeah. Maybe I should do them both back to back. Yeah. And skip everything in between. Yeah. You'd be fine if you did that. Absolutely. Number two of the box office is a comedy. A comedy. An ensemble comedy. It's an anthology. It's an ensemble anthology comedy. It's from Kentucky Fried Movie, is it? No. Think airplane. Worse than those two movies. Or think less cool than those movies. But it is anthology. It's not like. Yeah, sort of. The groove tube. No. Less cool than Kentucky Fried Movies. Too early for Amazon Women on the Moon. No. So you guys, again, you're thinking cool. It's really. No, it's not even lame. It's just like very mainstream comedy of the era. One of the big comedy figures of this era. Oh, oh, is it the Neil Simon? It's a Neil Simon. It's the hotel one. Yes, he made multiples, but this is one of them. Yes. It's called. It won an Academy Award. He made multiple. There's multiple like. There's a hotel ensemble. Correct. Like we're at a hotel and there's going to be like four mini stories about people in the hotel rooms. This is California Suite, which Maggie Smith won her. First or second? Second. Sure. Wild. She's good in it. I've seen California Suite. Bill Cosby's in it. Great. And Richard Pryor. Well, yeah. I don't know how to. I don't know how to. Yeah. Jane Fonda. Walter Matho. Walter Matho. Elaine May. OK. Richard Pryor. Maggie Smith. Pretty fun. No, it's not. It's OK. It's like one of the four stories is pretty good. The Maggie Smith one was OK. The Richard Pryor one. Like it's like one of them was kind of bad. You know what I mean? It made like $3 billion adjusted for inflation. Made $42 million. Wow. It was a big hit. Number three of the box office is something I have never heard of. I have to look it up. OK. That's exciting. OK. OK. I'm not going to tell you what it's called because you have to guess, of course. OK. So it's there was a book. OK. I like it so far. A nonfiction book. OK. 28 million copies of it were sold. OK. That's a secret. It is a treatment of what I want to call dispensational premillennialism comparing end time prophecies in the Bible with current end time prophecies, right? Of the time. So it's like doing all that stuff. This book gets turned into a film. OK. Narrated by Orson Welles. Fuck. That's just him being like, no, the old testament, you know, like in talking about all this shit. I know this movie. You do? Yeah. Because it's like a bizarre curio. It is. It's not called. It's not called the final something, is it? No. I'll tell you what it's called. Yeah. The late great planet Earth. Well, OK. That's a different movie that I was thinking of. OK. Well, that's what it is. I just when I watch like Old Siskel and Ebert's, they will rail about how like once a year there's a movie like this. Yeah. And they were like the weird faith based box office phenomena of their time, which were like quote unquote documentaries that stoked like end time spheres. Yeah. Wow. There's the search for Noah's Ark, which is like a really big one. A couple years later. They would all cease. There would be movies that was just like we have a hot air balloon and we took some fucking pictures of the ground from it. Totally. And people didn't have like, you know, other ways to see that in color. That's an earlier, more innocent time. By the time you get to the 70s, there's a documentary that's like, did we film an interview with God? It costs you $2 to find out. And people would rush out and they'd be like, no. And they're like, we got your money and they'd run for the hills. Number four of the box office is an action comedy that was a gigantic hit. In 1979, is it Silver Strike? No. It stars a guy who didn't make a lot of comedies. And in fact, we wanted to talk about him indirectly with Jane. And this is a way to do it. Here we go. It is one of the two Clyde the orangutan movie. It is one of the two films in which Clint Eastwood acted alongside a monkey. You wanted to talk about Clint with me. No, we want to talk about Sully. This is building up bridge over here to Sully. Because we forgot to do it last time we got to do it before this episode. But what the film is called, it's the first one. Have you seen either of the movies? No, which is kind of mucks it up with an entertaining. It's actually insane that I haven't seen it. A lot of my like, movie knowledge comes from the critic. I feel like there are a couple bits on the critic about this. I just feel like one of my top five favorite movie stars of all time is a monkey. Totally. Like just monkey on camera. Did you see the news yesterday about Kenan and Kel meet Frankenstein? Yes, I did. Really? I got, yeah. Finally, this country's back. This country's back on the right track. I hope they do them all. There had better be a tie in orange sort of it. I combined for them. There had better be like a long expose. Kenan and Kel. Eight months later about how much they were at each other's throats. Do you know what I love about it most of all? They buried the hatchet within five days of shooting. They were not speaking. Those are their real names, right? They have the rights to use their real names. Sure. That's right. It feels like this movie is not legally affiliated with the Nickelodeon series at all. That's right. So I'm really fascinated to see how- Will they play themselves in a new way, right? Like are there going to be like weird legal lines of like- Maybe Kel can't love orange soda. Kel Mitchell can love soda, but orange soda is owned by Nickelodeon. Well, I love orange soda and I hope Kel does too. He was kind of stupid. Was that like- Kel was just excitable and like was easily tricked. And Kenan was the schemer. Kenan was always like, here's what we're going to do. We're going to do all this crazy stuff. It's very honeymooners. You can only imagine what's going to happen when- Oh my God. When they meet Frankenstein. Yeah, Frankenstein's monster too. But also I think the classic- It better be Elordi. He's just doing the exact same thing. The classic Kenan-Kel thing is that Kel's always a little smarter than you think he is. Yeah, Kel has kind of like a sort of- Right, right. That's right at the end of the answer. And Kenan trips himself up with- Right, he overthinks it. They should get Elordi and whose Magicalen Hall's bride. Yeah, they should get Jesse Buckley as the bride. What's the film called, Griff? Okay, so I always get the two titles wrong. Just try. It's called Any Which Way You Can. That is the sequel. The original was called- Any Which Way But Loose? Every Which Way. This is- What I always mess up. Oh my God. In which, yes, Clint Eastwood, a bare-knuckle brawler, Rome's the American West, looking for a lost love, accompanied by his brother, manager Orville, who is played by Jeffrey Lewis, and an orangutan called Clyde. Clyde. It sounds like it was straight out of the Australian New Wave. It does kind of does. Humongous movie. Directed by James Fargo, who's one of his guys. It was like maybe Clint Eastwood's biggest hit at the time. It made $105 million, which is a lot of money. Humongous. There were like 10 movies in history that had made $100 million at that point. What did you want to say about Sully? Sorry. Just to- This is the Sully space. This is your chance to chat to me. You used to run a Sully Tumblr, correct? Yeah. Who are you, Nardwar? Am I wrong about this? You're correct about that. Thank you. What was it called? It's my Sully fan art. Because I told people you were doing- Twin Peaks return finale episode, and multiple friends of mine were like, you got to ask Jane about the Sully Tumblr. And then when the episode came out, several people on the Reddit said, I cannot believe they didn't bring up the Sully Tumblr. I'm happy to hear this because I felt like the Sully Tumblr never got it to do. This is your moment to reclaim it. I think- It still exists. Yeah. Tumblr.com slash my Sully fan art. So basically here's what happened. This is pre-movie. This is- oh yeah. This was the real man, the real hero. Yeah, this was pre-transition. And this was- it was 2006. No, the movie had come out or was just coming out. Let me check the dates here. I had just quit my day job. Movies 2016. I kind of had these dark years between 2016 and 2019, 20, that were sort of like my trends. This is one of the main coping mechanisms. It was my Sully fan art. Yeah, yeah. I think I saw something in it. I was trying to find my voice, that voice that people love so much now. And a lot of that was going into- the conceit was sort of like- You're kind of tearing pages out of Moleskine notebooks. Yeah, I was tearing a page out of Moleskine notebooks. And I was doing little one panel comic strips where Sully is like- I think as we now know him to be like a hero of our time. Yes. But then I was interested in the Sully backstory. Sending you guys an image from it. Thank you. You're welcome. Do you know that Dave and I whole heartedly- There's a big Sully thing. I love Sully. We defend that movie really hard. I don't think I ever actually saw the movie. That was the other thing. Wow. I hadn't seen the movie. I mean, the idea of him is so powerful. Yeah. Can I imagine a whole movie of that? No, I think that- and that was where the comics came from. My Sully fan art was sort of like- You don't have a man like Sully who's real very often. It's a man and the mythology. I mean, that's the fucking- the drive songs about him. It's a real hero, a real human being. No, and it- It's true. It's- I feel like it was a different time to have a fascination with Sully in 2016. I feel like now post the rehearsal season two- That's true. We were so fucking ahead of that curve. You know what drove me crazy? People text and saying, you gotta watch the rehearsal. You're gonna love it. Why? Because someone else stood up for Sully. When we've been here doing the work for fucking years- And me as well. They tried to relegate us. 2016 or 2017. The three of us were doing the work. Yeah. Boots on the ground. I think- I think the ground. I gave Sully a sidekick named Tully who is his- There's also little Sully? Yeah, there's a child. Sully's dad gives him advice. Sully's dad is a character and his dad is kind of always like, if you ever have to land an airplane on- Because there are birds, you know, he's sort of- There's a lot of that. Yeah. Oh, he's constantly fighting birds. Yeah. Do you folks know, since we've already spoiled Blackphone 2- Uh-huh. Do you know the ending joke of a daddy's home too? Yes, we've talked about it on this podcast. Do you know what, James? No, tell me. The first daddy's home, obviously, it's like welfare all- Don't set up the first daddy's home, we have to go. Very quickly! No! Mark Wahlberg, Will Ferrell, stepdad versus birthdad coming back into the picture. Oh, I gotta watch this. And he's feeling emasculate, so if you a copula loves it. It's okay. Hold on, because I actually didn't know- What's the movie called? It's Daddy's Home. Daddy's Home. See, it's important to explain these things. It's not explained stepfather, because it sounds a lot like stepbrothers. It's one of that vibe. I mean, not as surreal. But like, the Nickelodeon family comedy. Right. Yeah. So the reveal at the end of the movie is that- They're actually father and son. Mark Wahlberg remarries and she goes like, unfortunately you are gonna have to meet the father, my children, my ex-husband. And he shows up and it's John Cena. And it's like, oh, here's the guy who can emasculate Mark Wahlberg. Now it gets passed down. Right. So in second movie- Is Cena in there? They're a blended family. Cena's in there. They're all getting along, but there's a little tension between them. But now the grandfathers come in. And so the chain is Will Ferrell... Or Will Ferrell's dad is John Lithgow. Got it. Mark Wahlberg's dad is Mel Gibson. Oh. And they save John Cena's dad for the end of the movie. And the reveal is that it is Captain Sully Sullenberger playing himself. That's good. That's good. And it's the only man who could emasculate Mel Gibson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I do like that and I'm glad that Sully got a paycheck. Yeah. And probably like pretty good residuals. Yes, some residuals. Yeah. Did you want to say anything about Wado before I move on to number five at the box office? Yeah, you also, you're fluent in Wado. I, yeah. When you first came in here for the last episode, you clocked the Wado. There's a Wado. There's a big Wado pepsi standee. And you said, oh, we got to talk about Wado and then we forgot to do it. Now we can write that wrong. It's the moment. It actually, I have a friend, my oldest friend who is a big fan of the Blank Check podcast. Shout him out. That's crazy because that's the podcast you're on right now. Bob, what up, Bob? We grew up together and it was like. Hi, Bob. Yeah. Yeah, we had this sense of humor, right? Or like a Wado. You're looking for the things that don't quite add up in pop culture in the year 2000 or whatever. 99 when was? 99. 99, yeah. And we were collecting those pepsi cans. Absolutely. And I feel like it was like my brain was still small enough that it and it was such a big event. Those prequel, it was like, oh, this is going to be like, this is, we're about to get our canon. Yes. Like we kids, our parents got it. It was Luke, it was Chewie. We're about to get our canon. It's these guys. Well, and they were pushing Wado so hard, I think, because of him being a CGI, like visual effects breakthrough. And then you watch the movie and you're like. And he's a Jew. He is in fact a flying space Jew. He's a bit of a Shylock. And he's like a very unsavory character in the film without having the coolness of a villain. He is also a slave owner. He is a slave owner in a gambling addict. There's a good mad TV sketch. Do you remember that one? About Wado? Yeah, where they go to like George Lucas's ranch and he's like showing them the new characters. And it's just like, here's like Aunt Jemima, Mada. Right. The Jar Jar discourse was so loud at the time. Yeah, Wado kind of got drowned out. And the Neimoidians almost got shot. And I did. The Neimoidians were second. And I think we all are like of the same broken brain where even in 1999 we were like. We were able to see that there was something about Wado. And the future like circled back around 10 to 15 years later. I feel like Wado also has like there's something like very Donkey Kong about Wado. Like Wado feels straight out of the like not the not the Nintendo the rare universe. I was going to say Donkey Kong country. You're speaking my language. There's there's some Banjo-Kazooie energy to Wada. Yes. Right. I mean, thank you for. And let's let's just, you know, put it in the parlance of these times. Wado is a scenery chewer. He is. Hey, what do you mean by that? If you're in a scene with Wado, you're going to get out acted. And let me. And he's decent of bits that to this day. Yeah. That fucking thing blew me off the screen. Yeah. And then you find out who Sully's father is. Yeah. I mean, let me put it in the parlance of our day. Wado is straight up aura farming. And I don't say this to glaze him. Oh my God. But the man was absolutely serving. So weird that Qui-Gon is like, I'll break any rule. I'll train a kid. I'll gamble for his life. Right. I'll bring him because and then the kids like, can I have my mom? And he's like, you know, things are done a certain way here. All right. I'm not going to just take your slave mom from Wado. Yeah. This giant ship's a little crowded. I won one slave in the bet. Okay. Does he Jedi mind trick Wado? Wado says that they don't work on him. My tricks don't work on me. I'm a toy daddy. So he can't be. And of course, Wado, instead of flipping a coin, rolls a chance cube to produce a red or blue outcome. Part of the charm of Wado is that like, I feel like the name Wado, that was the first draft. Yeah. I think we did a good job. Number five of the box office is a romantic drama about ice skating. What's it called? Well, it's not the cutting edge. No. Famously, it stars Robbie Benson, who is best known as the voice of the beast. On the video archives podcast. In Beauty and the Beast They Dead, that's right. And recently he's on Severance. Who is the female lead of this movie? Her name is Colleen Dewhurst. Yeah. Okay. The big sort of theater actor. Yeah. Mm hmm. This movie is called, is it called the something? No. Fuck. I'll tell you what it's called. It's called Ice Castles. Yeah, there we go. Okay. So that's the top five. The all you've also got the further adventures of the wilderness family. What the hell is that? Sounds good. That's a JNESK title. I've feted into chat, JVT. You can look into that IPC. See if anyone's got hold on it right now. That is a sequel to a movie called Adventures of the Wilderness. Certainly perhaps unsurprisingly. I don't know. Looks like some kind of like, you know, little house on the prairie adjacent shit. You've got the Ralph Bakshi Lord of the Rings. Mm hmm. Which rocks and is insane. Yeah. Wait, he did Lord of the Rings too? I thought he just did the Hobbit. No. So the Hobbit was rank and bass. That thing is okay. And then there's the insane Ralph Bakshi what's, you know, retrace over it. What's it called? Roscoe. Roscoe Lord of the Rings. It is so weird and nightmarish. It's got all kinds of cool stuff. It unfortunately ends in the middle of the two towers. And then he do Return of the King. And then there is a crappier Return of the King animated movie. But that was all that ever existed until Peter Jackson. Number eight is the Sean Connery movie, The Great Train Robbery. Oh, sure. Number nine is a movie called Movie Movie. Yeah, that's a Stanley Donuts thing. George C. Scott? Huh. It's sort of Stanley. It's two movies. It's Stanley Donuts' Grind House. I'm not kidding you. Dynamite Hands, a boxing movie, and Baxter's Beauty of 1933, a sort of Gold Diggers movie. It's basically him doing two different golden age pastiche mini movies. And there's the fake trailer in the middle. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I wasn't kidding. It's his Grind House. Wow. Movie Movie is like, A, I think an incredible title. Yeah. And B, it is a fun concept, but it's also fascinating that anytime anyone's tried to do this, it has not worked. The public has said, fuck you. And they've been wrong every time. And they've been wrong every time. Yeah, Grind House Rocked. Number 10 is Across the Great Divide. What is that? It's a film, Western, with Robert Logan, whatever. Doesn't matter. I have to go see the same movie movie in a second, so we gotta wrap up. That's a humble brag. Sure. You were saying I gotta go this whole time. I thought you gotta make pasta dinner for your family. No, it's why I could do a later pod today, because I have a screening. Well, well. I have to go to the Fortress of Doom, AKA Disney headquarters. Whoa. You ever been there? No. They should lay in. They haven't invited me. Let you mess around with some stuff. They should let you develop a live action. Where's Wato? Where do you keep him? Where's Wato is not a bad title. I'll tell you some Wato writes stuff off, Mike. But I feel like it's about time, Jane, that you attach yourself to some random live action Disney remake that never actually happened. Right, some IP play. That seems to work out well for my peers. Yeah, it's perfect. Not nightmarish and annoying at all. It's like about as good mileage as everyone involved in that hanging rock kiss. It's one of those. A lot of people just kind of disappear. Yeah. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for being home. Thanks for having me. This is always so fun. Very excited to see the new film, which will hopefully come out sometime in this calendar year. Yeah, this year. And you were working on Black Hole? I'm in the whole coolish. That which rocks? But yeah, that's what you're doing, right? Nothing else to plug? The book will be out in the fall. That's right. That's yeah. I knew you had another thing. It's like a 600, 700 page novel. Hell yeah. Wait, you wrote Antkind? Yeah, I wrote Antkind. It starts Richard Brody. What's the book called? I'm sorry. The book is called Public Access Afterworld. Very cool. I think it's good. It's a novel. It's a novel. It's going to be my dune. You know, this is my opus. Music to my ears. Nothing better. It's like pan flute music. Yeah, yeah. Play it up again. My sully fan art still. My sully fan art still on Tumblr. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to see my true first project. And yeah, I saw the TV Glow obviously, and we're all good in the world's fair. The best. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a privilege to have you here. Seriously, thank you for coming. To be here. Oh my god, so fun. Music's really chilling me out. I'll see your ass tomorrow. Well, hey. Not to spoil for the listeners, but recording episodes tomorrow. We are in fact. What are we doing tomorrow? They'll have come out like two months earlier. We're doing mailbag and return to us. Oh, no, we moved them out back. We're doing cards in Paris. Yeah, which you'll have heard last week. Great. Thank you all for listening. Thank you, Jane, for being here again. Tune in next week for... For... Doop, doop, doop, doop. Is it Gallipoli next? The last wave. The last wave, of course. Tune in next week for the last wave with our buddy, Ben David Grubinski, returning to the show. Who also has a new movie coming out. And as always, I just give to you the listenership the opportunity to listen to some chill-ass Pan flute music. Blank check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeehan. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeehan and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ali Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.