DJ Mormile

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Hey, y'all, it's Lauren Moroza with the latest with Lauren Moroza on Black Effect. And I cannot wait to see you guys at the fourth annual Black Effect podcast recipe. We are coming back to Atlanta, Georgia on Saturday, April 25th at Pullman Yards. And it's hosted by me alongside DJ Envy and Charlotte Maynard. We got Drink Chance with Noriega and DJ Effing. We got Keep Your Positive, sweetie, with my girl. Crystal Renee Haislett. We got Reality with the King, with my guide and my brother, Carlos King. Y'all know he does reality commentary like nobody can. Now we also have Don't Call Me Right Girl, the podcast. I love Mona and Club 520 Podcasts along with the Grits and Eggs podcast. So this lineup, Stacked Baby. You're also going to want to check out the panels that we have lined up to featuring Kev on stage, Tika Sumter and John Holt Bryant, just to name a few. Of course, it's Way Bigger in the podcast. We're bringing the Black Effect Marketplace with Black on Businesses, plus the Food Truck Court to keep you fed while you visit us. OK. Listen, you don't want to miss this. Tap in and grab your ticket now at blackeffect.com slash podcast. Bigger Thotties on All Things R&B. I'm Jay Valentine and this is the R&B Money Podcast. And today we about this business. We about to get into some real business. You know, y'all be asking me, you know, bring some executives on, bring some people who really do this thing, really understand it, can really tell you how it go. As serious as we about to be, it's about to be some fake work going on too, man. I mean, you know, it's a lot of hit records. It's a lot of cool shit. It's it's it's billion dollar business. I got my brother on here, DJ More Millie. Man, it's a pleasure. What's going on, bro? It's incredible. I can't believe we're finally doing this. I'm excited. Yo, this is this is a long time coming for y'all. That's tuned in. This is a long time coming, man. This is a long. A lot of years of us being friends and brothers in this music business, man. It's true. It's a couple of it's got it's a couple of decades. Yeah, yeah. Which is crazy. It's a couple of decades. For sure. 20 plus years, which is wild. 20 plus years, bro. A friendship and in business. Yeah. And man, and I'm really, I'm really happy to have you here today, bro. What you've done in the music business is your own path. That's the best way that I can put it. That's fair. That's the best way. That's the best way that I can do it. I know how to do it. But yeah, yeah. It's fair. And man, let's let's let's start. Let's start from the beginning of this for you. You a kid from New York. Yes, sir. And, you know, the elephant in the room. Let's get it out. You Jimmy, I mean, nephew. That I am that I am. He's my mom's little brother. So from that's from day one, you know, like that's how I grew up. Like I grew up, you know, I grew up in New York and Jimmy was in LA already by the time like I was, you know, when I was born. But like he was already in LA. Jimmy was already in. OK, OK. But but still all the holidays, we he would come back east and he was together. So he was a very big part of my life early. So I was around, you know, the him and hearing about him and, you know, people being around like he was dating Stevie Nicks when I was younger and like so she was around. OK, like my first concert was like bringing her roses backstage when I was like two or something. That's like one of the first pictures I have and like just, you know, like it was like that was always like around. But it wasn't like my regular life, like because I wasn't that close to him. I was 3,000 miles away. Right. But it was still obviously a very big part. My mom and him are insanely close. It's just the two of them. My mom, seven years older than him. So they're like, like so she was like big sister for real. And they were like, you know, very, very close. So Jimmy was always very, very close. Now, I remember having a conversation with your dad when we went to breakfast one day and he was telling me the story of pretty much how they raised him. Yeah. How they raised Jimmy. Yeah, because my father and my mother have been together since they were like 15 years old. Right. So 65 years, you know what I mean? So it's crazy to think about. But yeah, so it's like, you know, shit, it's lifers like both of my parents, like my dad's known Jimmy since he's seven. Yeah. So like that's like as and he's been a constant in his life since he's seven. So it's, you know, it's as close as it gets. And he's my godfather. So at the same time. He's your uncle and your godfather. My uncle and my godfather. Yes. All right. All right. It's very Italian. Yes, very Italian. Very Italian. Very. So as you're seeing this as a kid, is this peaking your interest in music at all? Honestly, no. No. Like not not in not peaking my interest, but it didn't feel like a path for me at the time. Like it looked it was crazy to me. I was like, these guys are nuts. Like everybody, like it was so off the wall. Everything was so like always like on high alert. Like we got like kind of always something's always happening every day. Like there's no constant that like the way my brain worked, I was a math major and I was like a math kid from such a young age that my analytical brain did not process that. I was like very like, I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to end up doing something in math. I'm going to end up like as I grew older, like I'm going to do something in stock market. Like my brain was very like business school. I went to business school at Boston College. Like that's that's where I was going. Right. So like even though like it was interesting because I was like, wow, that's that's as cool as like a job could be probably. Like, oh, shit, that's like a real job. It didn't feel like a path for me. I wasn't a musician. I wasn't like, but like I was really more of a sports kid than I was a music kid. And that's where the sports junkie kicks in. Yeah. And you loving Tibet. And now I was a number. Numbers. OK, all right. Gambling, bookying, baseball card selling. You was doing this as a teenager. Yeah, from like 14, 15. I was like running numbers for God and I'm a tying kid from Staten Island. I mean, at the end of the day. Yeah. I mean, so yeah, like it was kind of like, you know, whatever it is, it was that I was hanging out with the local car shop, hanging out at the local pizzeria, hanging out. That's really what I did. Went home, watched the Met Game with my grandmother, who taught me how to gamble. Jimmy's mom, when I was five, like literally like I was playing, like my parents would go out to dinner and I would be playing poker with my grandmother for pennies at five, six, seven years old. Like that's great. So like literally that's that's how I was raised. So back in your neighborhood, was it like a known thing that Jimmy was already moving in the music business? Was it's like we're proud of him for doing? Oh, yeah, I mean, you got to think he's massive. It's like Jimmy, like before the Interscope stuff was like a enormous record producer. He's producing everything from you to, you know, Patty Smith. That like he was like, so he was obviously he made it out and he was lived in LA and like live in that life. And he was, you know, so yeah, it was very much that. But you mean the neighborhood that the neighborhood was more Brooklyn and the family than like us moving out to Staten Island. But like, but like my friends, like you got to think I'm like 12 at this time. So my friends knew that like, you know, obviously I had my time uncle. Like, yeah, I had like pictures with me and like, you know, Johnny Bungovi or Eddie Van Halen in my basement and stuff, which was ridiculous and crazy for, you know, like just like a bunch of kids from Staten Island who were out playing football in the backyard. But like it wasn't like it didn't really translate yet at that point until like. Once I like started to get into. College is when it kind of became, well, I guess, freshman sophomore year of high school is when like Jim, like the death row thing really started. So like Jimmy had because now it's because now it's more connected to the youth. Yes. Right. And now we're old enough to like care about music enough. Right. And it's like, you know, like shit, being a 14 year old white kid from Staten Island. Yeah. And my uncle owns a label and that's and he owns a label and as that. And at the same time, when all of us were crazy because, you know, Wu Tang's rapping at the mall, like they're coming up going crazy, like Method Man's my favorite artist in the world. Like I'm like, this is like, OK, now I'm getting into it. Were you getting so I only take this in my mind goes here because of my nieces and nephews. Were you blowing up his phone for tickets? It wasn't really there to the Wu Tang concert. It was no, it didn't get to that level. It was more like getting the swag. Like I still remember getting like the very first record in the scope ever put out was my boy, Gerardo. There's a big A&R of Rico's. So I got like the robe like showed up at the house and like the craziest stuff. And then the second record, at least second record, I remember, I think it was the second record overall was Good Vibrations, Mark Wahlberg, Marky Mark. So like those records were like and they were like both well, big records, like they were novelty, but like big records. Yeah. And and so like it was like that kind of stuff. And I was like, oh, because I didn't really understand what a record label was. Like I knew Jimmy was already like when I was younger, he worked on like the very special Christmas album. So all those guys were around like he did like the record run the MC, all those records, like the Christmas records. So I was starting to like kind of learn what everything was, but I still didn't really know what he did. I just knew he was in music and he did records with right a lot of famous people. And he was successful. You know what I mean? Like I'm not a kid of how young like to like now there's so much more on the Internet. You could process and see things so much. But back then it was like, what's an early moment for you? Teenager, Interscope, Defro. Do you have any moments of like you coming to LA? Because I mean, Defro was like a very aggressive. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like borderline scary label for people, right? So you coming you probably what 14, 15 years old at this point. I'm 14 when the chronic comes out. So the first the first release and that's being released on your uncle's label. Yes. So I'm 14. What's your experience coming to LA? Do you come to LA and get to hang out a little bit? Honestly, the first like the first time to be fair, my brother, who's three years younger than me, actually was he was more into music. So he came out first and James, I have these pictures of him going with Jimmy to the Let Me Ride video, which are absolutely incredible. He's 11 going to let me ride. 12. Yeah, he was 181. So he's 11. And it's like it's incredible. And like in like it's like and I remember like getting into it. But James really loved music earlier than I was a sports kid. James really looked like he was in it music guy like he was. And but my first real experience was them was probably the Christmas of 94. I think so. It was it was doggy style was already out and they were like whatever. They were redoing Bill Wise or whatever. Yeah. And I went to Aspen. For Christmas. OK, so it's Jimmy and like our family and should join us. It was incredible. Like it was like my first experience like and you should have seen like have you been to Aspen? No. OK, so it's going to be lost on you a little. We'll go ahead. 1994, walking down that main strip. I remember walking down the street with Shug by myself. Like we were just like everybody was there, but we were like looking for like a triple extra large red snowsuit in Aspen. It was legitimately like that cloth. It was insane. Like it was like like well and like everybody just looking at me like I don't know like you got to like think about 1994 like what it is like. I don't know if everybody thought I was kidnapped. I have no idea. But it was like we were like it was and it was just but it was just I didn't know him. He was just sure like I mean I knew him from like all the story. And then TV flip side to though. If you know Shug, you know Shug is. Just a guy's dude. If you know him personally. Yeah, I'm saying like if you know him personally like he was fun as hell. Like I remember playing pool with him. We had one first we went to the ski slope. He he he didn't want to he didn't want to go to the he didn't want to do the bunny slope even though he never skied. OK, but he wanted to go straight to the top. So we so he ended up on the like lift with my mom and they went up together. And so as they're coming down, he felt my mom trying to help him up like legitimately like stuff that is like so insane to think about like. But and then we went and played randomly. Jim, they rented an ice hockey rink because like Brian Turner was out there who ran priority priority. And he had like and he was friends with all these. I think he's Canadian, but he was friends with all these hockey guys. It's like Jeff Cortenall and Sergei Fedorov. Like one of the greatest hockey players of all time. I want to say that I want to say that like that was his thing. Yeah, no, definitely. They were also there playing hockey and we all go to play with them. So it's like Jimmy's kids, me. I've never been on skates in my whole life and those hockey guys and shook. So he's trying. And like, so I'm just picturing this thing of him trying to skate and like the hockey players going by and fling and the Jimmy's kids are I mean, super. Jamie's like five and he's the oldest six at this point. So like they're like just like it was like, I mean, the trip was. I mean, it was incredible. I remember playing I remember playing pool and I. I actually won one of the games against Shug and I remember seeing him like years later and he just came up behind me and we're at a restaurant and like and like people were looking at he was behind me. So like I didn't know he was there and the people we were eating with were like looking like and he's like, you owe me a rematch. And like walked away and it was like one of those moments for me that made me look so like they were like, what the hell is like? Like, how do you know I tried to tell that story? I mean, we're going to be into breakfast by the end of it. But it was do you do you realize though that. That wasn't normal. Did I realize it wasn't normal? Like all the people you just named all of you know what I'm saying? Like, oh, yeah, I mean, like I was 16 years old at this point. I was based in somewhat reality. Like I lived in reality. Like this wasn't my like 360 days a year. I went to public school in Staten Island, New York. And I like obviously I had this relationship with my uncle, but it wasn't the life I grew up in. So I realized how crazy it was to come back and like, you know, you come back from Christmas break and they're like, oh, I went to the thing. I went to go see the ice cream page. So I went and played hockey with your night. That's the thing. And that's why I was going to ask you because my son went through this early on because he didn't live in. He didn't live with me full time. Right. His earlier years. But when he started to live with me full time, it kind of shifted. But I remember, you know, he would come to LA for summers and all of the all of the breaks and all the whole thing with me. And then I would mostly go up there. I would go back to San Francisco. I had another place out there and I would spend time there, but then he would come here for those times. Right. And I remember having a conversation with him one day when school has started back and he was like, he was, he was maybe like nine. And he was like, nobody believes me. I said, nobody believes you. What were you talking about? At this point, he doesn't have a phone yet. Right. Doesn't have a phone yet because I didn't let him have a phone yet. And obviously we weren't just going and taking pictures, right? But he was like, nobody believes me. They don't believe you're my dad. Well, that's proven. But yeah, which is funny to me, because I'm like, I'm not even famous. And but then he's like, they don't believe I was at Jamie Foxx house. They don't believe I was on stage with Chris Brown. They don't believe he just started going like just running down stuff. And I'm like, wow, like he lives two different lives. Yeah. At that time, he lives, he lives, he lives two different lives. And it's really a different thing for a kid who's adjacent at the time to whatever this life is. It's it's kind of part of I really. I value that a lot, honestly, like what that did for me, because it kind of helped me learn at an earlier age, I think, than most like. To know like people's real intentions and to like. To have that kind of like. It's a little crazy to not know if people like like you for you that young. Yeah. Look at when you haven't actually done anything yourself. So it has like nothing and it's not like and it's not your parent. So it's not like you're going home to that house and people want to come to that house because like whatever, like it was like adjacent enough that it was like, but it was always like it started to happen in high school, where you could tell like people were trying to stand next to you, trying to be around and trying to be like, oh, are you going to like the way they would ask questions? And like as it got to like, but I just wasn't that into it to be like, I wasn't forefronting it and being like, oh, I'm going here. I'm going, I didn't really take advantage of it. I didn't really do any of it. So that's kind of what kept me kind of a little more grounded, I think, than if I was like super excited. Like if my brother was 14 or 15 before me and he loved it so much, it might have been different because he probably would have been actively out everywhere. And so it would have been like these guys are with these girls are coming with me. Like that kind of shit. We're going to go to the Let Me Ride video. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you want to fly out? Like you want to fly out? Bring out my fourth grade girlfriend. Like, you want to like, I mean, like, like, but I mean, like so like that, like it's funny to think, but that, but it did help. Like it helped, you know, mold kind of my, I mean, very early on kind of. So yeah, let's let's let's get into that because the story I've heard. And I mean, I'm sure you listen, you're here so you can tell me the real. So what I heard, and it's actually funny enough before I even met you, was that Jimmy told you, we're not doing this Boston College. You're going to be a mathematician thing. You're getting into the music business. Is that true? No, it's not not true. But it was like, this is how I saw it from my, from my perspective. I I was on a path. I was going to work on the I was going to work in on the stock market. That was my path in my brain. I was going to go make a shitload of money on the stock market. And I was going to buy the Knicks by the time I was 25, because I had to fix them because I couldn't stand watching them anymore. That was like the whole thing. I couldn't take it. I hated them. They made me hate basketball overall. And you hate the Knicks more than the Mets. I mean, because I know your team. So first sporting event I ever went to in my whole life was the Mets winning the World Series in 1986, Game 7. So at least I saw that one time. So like, even though they even my dad's a Yankee fan, so he kind of screwed me and made me a MET fan. So I had they I thought that like when I saw Strawberry Good in the Mets win in 86 is the greatest thing ever. Of course, they never won again 40 years later. But like so it's a lifetime of misery when I even though the Yankees haven't won as much lately, being a Yankee fan actually would have been a lot more pleasant for the last 40 years. Yeah. But like the Knicks just that whole run in the 90s when we just couldn't get past the Bulls, that's my high school run. So like I was very every every year. Every year was so painful. Like it was so painful and like. So you were going to buy them and fix. And I was going to buy them and fix them. That was my plan. But like so then as I went to I worked for one of my dad's really my best friends was a big I at Penn Webber. So I got an internship on the floor of the American Stock Exchange when I was a freshman. OK. And I was after my freshman year college and I was convinced that like I was going to like I had worked it out with the local restaurants. Like I was already well. I knew I went to Peter. I knew how to go to the restaurants and make sure they delivered us the best food on Friday. It's like I was going to be the things I cared about. I figured how to get the radio in the perfect spots. We could hear the games during the day while we're on the floor. I knew how to get the steakhouses to get us the I wanted the best food to come to us, not the other boots. So like this how I knew how to wire shit things I cared about, which I still care about to this day sports and food. So like it's kind of still what my life is. But like after that sophomore year, as I'm as I'm like preparing to go back for my second year at my internship after my sophomore year, I talked to Jimmy and he goes, you should come visit LA. You should experience it. And I was like, I mean, I'm not against it. Like, I mean, obviously you like lap a luxury. I'm sure it'll be fun. But in my head, I had a path and he was like, you should you know more about this stuff than you think you do just from being around it. You're a smart kid. You absorb stuff. You know, I think you would you should at least explore the opportunity. And I said to him, I was like, I don't know anything about music. I don't ask you to be a stockbroker. Like I don't know why you're asking me to work here. Like you're great at what you do. I'm trying to be great at what I do. That sounds insane to me. Like I literally at that point, like I thought it was cool and I listened to music. But like if I was in a car with my dad's like sometimes we'd have music on. But it was usually sports talk radio. It was usually like I wasn't like an aficionado in any way, shape or form. But I was like, all right, I'm going to give you three weeks. I'll come out for three weeks. That's you too. No, no, in my head, I said, I'm coming out. You take your stuff. OK, OK. I'm going to give it three weeks. I'll come out and I'll and if it doesn't feel like a like if it feels like how I expected to feel, I'll just go home and I'll have had a great time. Like I'm still a sophomore in college going to stay at my uncle's house in Malibu. Right. Who like runs Interscope Records. Like there are worse hardships in the world to do over the summer. So I go out and it was a I mean, it was exactly what I expected. I'm there. Everybody's like, you know, in my head, like, what is this kid doing? He's like Jimmy's nephew. Is he taking a spot from somebody else? Like, what is he doing? Like, but I was like me. I'm like a fun love and like I'm like I'm not trying to get in anybody's way. I'm not hating on anybody. I'm the same goofy guy. I am not like I was except I had hair. But besides that, like the rest of it is pretty much the same. But I was like and he put me in the A&R department and I'm he's like, oh, intern in the A&R department. I'm like, I don't even know what that means. Forget about like and then he explains it to me and like listen to demo tapes. And I was like, I don't like I'm going to find an artist like I don't know anything. But like it's really funny as we're going through this process. I found one like in the first few days that I liked and one of the guys in Jimmy's office liked it and I took a liking to it. So I would drive into the office with Jimmy every day. I would put it in his cassette deck every day. Cassettes back then put it in his tape deck every day. And we play and he was like, every day you'd like give me shit about it. And like a day two days before I was leaving to go home. It just so happens that that artist got offered a huge deal by Polly Anthony at Epic, I think, where she was. OK. And then so Jimmy decides to take a meeting like, you know, all this is going on the back. And he's like, I better meet with these guys. Because if something doesn't if something works, it would be the craziest thing ever. He ends up meeting with them. And they end up signing with Jimmy on the spot, basically. And then the lead the guy comes in to meet me because Jimmy tells him the story. Yeah. The guy ends up being Will I am the group is the black eyed bee. So will I am comes in and I'm just sitting there. Lasalsa was still across the street. Interscope was still on Wilshire and Wilshire and Westwood. So it was still in that in the 10, 900 building. So I'm sitting just sitting in my boy, Scott, I go's office. It was working for Jimmy at the time. And I'm just in here, look up and I'm like, oh, I know you. You're from the and we just started talking and we became friends. And I now that moment just kind of my whole life just changed. I'm also very competitive. I mean, I was, you know, I was an athlete as much as you could be an athlete for somebody who hates sweating. I was as good an athlete as you could be for somebody who refuses to run. But like, like, but like I was that and I was like very competitive. So now knowing that I'm somewhere where nobody, like, I don't want to say nobody wants me to be, but it felt like nobody thought I could succeed. And I was like, you know, a nepo baby, I was given the opportunity. Now I'm like, OK, now in my head, now I want to be great at this because now I want to prove in my head that I can do it. And like I had this in. So I wasn't all the way, but like I was like, OK, and I became one of the Black Eyed Peas and our guys from my dorm room in Boston College, my junior year. So now will I am as like, like, so now we're making this their first album. Yeah. From my door. Like he's sending me like you do go home. I go home. I like I went to school for two more years. I graduated. OK. So I did not finish. I. So I go home my junior year and I'm legitimately like, you know, I got a landline. I'm a and R. And he's calling me like and he's like sending me like, I mean, this is how crazy it was at the beginning. He's sending me. He sent me the first song was falling up like the song before the single from the first album. He sent it to me, but it was eight versions. So I mean, I'm so naive and so green that I thought he sent me a broken tape that it was the same thing. I was like, it's the same song you sent me eight times. He goes, no, man, like it's like it's the mix. This is up. This is down. I was like, they all sound exactly the fucking same to me. I was like, it sounds like a 25 minute song. I think you should make it shorter. He's like, no, I remember the. And I could picture his brain exploding going, I can't believe this is the guy. Like like part of it was funny and part of it was like, but we grew together. And it was like this friendship that kind of was like, OK, this is like a real guy because I was always convinced that like all these artists and nobody they weren't real like it was all like, you know, superstar TV stuff. And I was like, OK, now I know a guy and it's a real guy. So I'm like, OK, so now that's my junior year. Now I go, OK, this is it. Junior summer, I'm going back. And I'm going to decide this summer whether give it the full summer and decide whether I'm going to do music or I'm going to go back because I'm still a marketing and finance major at Boston College. I'm still I'm still living that dual life. Like in my head, like I was giving it a shot, but it was still 90 90 percent of my time was still school and like my life and I was helping Will with whatever I was doing. But there were other R&R guys in LA like really doing the groundwork. So that summer, Jimmy literally looks at me and goes, OK, you're not going to get that lucky again. So what you need to do is I mean, that's a fluke. Like so like what you need to do is you need to. Go through all the artists that are already signed to Interscope and attach yourself to one or two or however many that you feel you can help that haven't already. Like see if you work the work well with the R&R guys. If you have a good relationship and see if you can insert yourself and help. Now that you've seen how Will and the P's have done what they've done, if you have any knowledge or anything that can help that. So OK, so I listen, I have a few friends at the company. I go around and listen and told the acts like I'm working closely with Tom Wally. He played golf. I like to play golf. So Tom was president at the time I was around there. Evan Bogart was interning who now is like, you know, Evan Bogart was interning and consulting A&R there. And my boy Dean Geislinger, who was in the mail room, is now assisting Jimmy. He had he had moved up to become Jimmy's assistant. I come out and so I'm dealing, talking to all these guys. And, you know, there was an artist that they really loved that I attach myself to. And I'm just around. I'm just around bringing him to the studio, bringing him going with Dean to here, going to, you know, going to sway in Tex house, doing just all the stuff. And so I'm working with this. I go back to school. Now I'm really in it. I got two artists that I'm at least somewhat involved in that Christmas. We shoot the video for my name is two months later. My name is comes out. So the analysis you're talking about is Eminem. Yeah, it's Eminem and Eminem becomes like, I mean, obviously it's, you know, I was around and I was a part of it. I didn't like funny, but it's like those two stories that are part of your your your legend that you may not even know about are actually merged together. I always thought, even in our friendship of all these years, I always thought. It was Jimmy's punk nephew who found the tape of Eminem. So you're like, and everybody is the mix of the tape was Black Eyed Peas. Yeah. And the artist that you went to go help with was Eminem, which is actually a greater story. And so I got to meet, like, you know, like I'm like still in college now, senior year and like M and Paul Rosenberg, who's, you know, one of my dearest friends at this point, coming up to Boston, doing shows at the Middle East, they like and like just around. And like my like, I have like, like photos somewhere of like M and Paul in the back of my Cherokee with me and my roommate, Freddie Cardone, like at the front, like driving my Jeep Cherokee to the shows and stuff, like crazy stuff. Like your first two artists, first two artists I ever was around in my whole life. The Black Eyed Peas. So it's like, DJ, you got to slow down because you talk fast. I know, it's because it's insane. This is insane, bro. It's insane. Your first two shots, because like I said, it was and you mentioned people looking at it, the Nepo baby thing, you know what it is, the punk nephew, like I said, like people are just saying things like, and this is before I ever beat you. Right. It's like, yeah, you know, Jimmy Ivey got this nephew and he did. But he did find Eminem. Right. This is what people are saying. So when I meet you, I'm like, this is my fucking hilarious. And in my mind, I'm like, it works because he's an outsider. That's this is this is my train of thought. I'm like, oh, all his shit works. And these things have lined up for him because he don't have none of this quote unquote music guy thing that tells him that you Eminem will never work. Or the black IPs with the Filipinos and the black guy and the girl singing, which at the time ain't Fergie yet. Right. You know what I mean? Years before they had another young lady that was in the group. You know what I mean? So in the band, that was actually you know what I mean? So it's like three of them officially. But yeah, all of these things, I think for the average music person who comes up in music and understands the quote unquote aesthetics and what this is supposed to be, will probably be like, no. So it took for you to be from another world, in a sense, to say, I just think it's cool. Yeah. And I like this person. Yeah. That's basically. And I want to help. Yeah. That's basically the whole thing. Like, I didn't understand like any time they would start talking, I was like, that all just sounds like noise and everybody talking just to feel like, like, I mean, most of them, like no disrespect, but most of the music industry is people just talking to make sure they still have a job. Like, it's like they feel like they need to like, and I'm from the very first meeting I ever sat in until the very last one I sat in as a record executive. It felt like 75 percent of it was people talking because they felt like they'd get in trouble if they didn't. Right. Like and like, you know, like we had and we had the conference room booked from nine to eleven. We didn't want it to end. That's why most people sit on the fence. No. Because they don't want to be on either side of right or wrong. Right. And if they were on the fence, they can kind of be like, yeah, no, I did say. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Instead of standing on it and being like, yo, you the one said that bullshit. Was going to work and it didn't work. Right. Nobody nobody. People are too scared to be in that position. And, you know, I also understand it. Yeah. Because being wrong is a lot scarier than being right is rewarding in a lot of ways when you're not on the, especially when you're not on the A&R side, like, you know, like you have a job, like so most of the label is like, you know, they're they're functioning and they they can run with the I'm just working the records you give me. Right. So like I'm doing my job. I'm doing my job, whether you deliver to hit record or not. But tell me this too, in your mind, is it. Well, my uncle owns the company. It's part of that. In a way that like I like not in a way. Yeah, this is the way like it wasn't based on that. Like that wasn't my thought. But as I grew, it was a lot more like the music industry and just like any industry is based on growth, based on advancing, based on like credit that you need getting credit for the things you do. Because you want to advance or you want to get a new job or you want to get a better job. That wasn't my experience. My I'm like, I'm never like from the Sopranos. Like I'm Chris from the Sopranos. Like for real, like that story worked way better until, you know, I don't want to spoil Sopranos if somebody still hasn't watched it. But Tony ends up killing Chris at the end of the Browno. So like me saying that Jimmy's Tony and I'm Chris worked a lot better before that episode aired. But conceptually, it was like. I was a lifer. I was only in the music industry because it was family and because that's what I knew. I didn't want another job at another record company. Right. So like I was a safe space and I was somebody who could take chances, could believe in what I believed in and I could advocate and fight for other people at the company because I wasn't worried about for obvious reasons. People stealing the credit for me. People not people thinking I'm trying to. I didn't want that because I already had the thing of people probably thinking I was going to go run and tell my uncle anything that happened anyway, which was actually the opposite of what was the truth. Because the last thing I wanted was that. I wanted that stigma of like, oh, Jimmy's going to find out anything you say to DJ. Right. So like that was actually the opposite. And I kind of became like the I feel like I became like the therapist at Interscope, like I was the person who could like kind of. Thread the line and like be able to help things move forward because I was able to help. I was able. I was in a good enough position in a good enough place as I grew that I was able to help people get their ideas and get their artists across the finish line without feeling like I needed to bogart it and be like, this shit is mine now. For lack of a better term, you wrote in the car. Yeah. Like you said, like you were able to put that cassette in there and nobody else would have been in that car. That's not family. All right. You know what I mean? So it was advantageous for somebody to, especially if you took the position of not just wanting to in a sense be a rat. Right. And be like, yeah, they fucking up. If you're an advocate for people, like I said, it was advantage for somebody to be like, yo, DJ, you fuck with this. Yeah. No, I was I was the exact opposite. I took every bullet. I was like, yo, it was me like it was like, because it was like, I believed. I mean, this is obviously we're skipping years, like not 22, because I didn't have enough like equity and success to like be able to say that. But as like the years go on, that position of like being somebody who had his opinion and was willing to at the end of the day, I never stopped being a gambler. Like I would put like if I believe in something, my whole career is based on believing in artists and songs and writers and producers and arguing with them till like I'm out of breath. But the second we leave that room, we are united front and then I kill and I would spend every last dollar to execute that vision. And that's more important. Like that's more important than any analytic could ever tell me. So like and that is how we had our that's how I had my success. And that's how I was able to like, like obviously the early stuff. I mean, shit, the piece took six years. I mean, Will ended up moving into my house. Will like we ended up being roommates. We ended up like really building and then Jimmy relationship with Will really built. And obviously then Ron Fair comes into the picture. Fergie comes into the picture and they start making these records. And I mean, obviously, I mean, they become the biggest. That there was there were years where they were the biggest group in the world. Like 60, maybe a hundred million. I mean, you can argue that Black Eyed Peas were the biggest group in the world. For sure. Like they were that big, like the world wide, massive. Like, you know, like, come on. Like I got a feeling from where's the law. Him sampling his crowd on usher's. Oh, like, come on, bro. Like you can't do that if you're not performing in front of hundreds of thousands of people. Will's a genius and he's one of my dearest friends to this day. Obviously, yeah, you were my wedding. So like, obviously, he's very much like a family. So like, and that's how kind of everybody say like my whole career is kind of based on that. Like, did you have a moment during the Eminem phase? Did you go blonde? Did you go? Did you do it? I don't know if I've ever seen a picture of it, but I just got to ask. This is going to be this is the most ridiculous thing ever. Oh, shit. But I had blonde hair first. I mean, to be fair, Eminem died his hair because of you. I will never say that ever because I looked horrible. Like it was ridiculous how bad it was. But legitimately, when we're running around to like do like sway and tech show and that kind of stuff, like I have like, there's like photos where like I have blonde hair and Eminem still has dark hair. So it's like kind of funny. It's like ridiculous. I mean, it's and then like six months later, then my name is video and obviously, I mean, it's absurd. I mean, if you watch it, just don't give a video. Eminem's first video, he doesn't have blonde hair. We're going to we're going to stamp it on here and say that Eminem died his hair blonde because of DJ. I hope he used to make fun of how terrible I looked. So I can't I like I can't imagine that's really where it came from. But that is a funny narrative. But yes, I definitely did have blonde hair. I blame my aunt Vicky for that. She talked me into going to the to this hair salon in LA. I was like, this is insane. I'm going to like like blonde. It's crazy. Like I looked insane. I could bought like I'll send you a picture. I could do good at it if you want. I look insane. How terrible. So after you do or after you're part of Black Eyed Peas Eminem, what's the next for you? Well, I went to go work like so now when I'm graduating, right? You still haven't graduated. No, like Eminem's album comes out like three months before I graduate college. When I but like as I'm graduating, like it's like the natural thing moved to LA. Become an A&R guy. I didn't know anything. So I was like, I don't want to do that. Like I don't want to jump into something. I need the groundwork. I need the. I still need some there there in like what I'm doing. So like I decided to stay in New York initially and I went to go work for Steve Stout, who is now running urban music at Interscope. So I became Steve's one of Steve's assistants. And I was still. Co-A&R of both the Black Eyed Peas and Eminem with Dean, but I was an assistant at the same time. Yes. So this is great. Now, this is legitimately, I would argue, probably the greatest floor that I went to go work on like in hip hop history. Like, I don't know what it was. They got to think 1999, Universal Building, like the Interscope, like obviously Interscope said LA office. So like it's a very small satellite office, but it's me, Steve Stout, Ashley Fox, who was a big marketing executive, Chris Chambers, who's now a massive publicist, Anton Marchand, Foxy's brother, who was an A&R guy. Yeah. Yeah. DJ Clue was an A&R guy. So that's our, that's our little squad. My boy, Adolfo was Stout. This is great. That's our little squad. Then my office was the last A&R office. We ended, Rockefeller began. So G. Roberson is the next office. So I'm Interscope. Now G. Roberson, hip hop, Al Branch, Dames up there all the time. Like you got like, and then you got like that whole squad. Then in the same building, running in and out, you got Murda, Inc. is starting, Bloodline with DMX is starting. Yeah. Everyone is in that like every day is like, every day. Like that's like, so I'm like, fresh out of college, fresh out, like three hours. Like I went home and Monday I started like it was like, so I graduated four days ago and I'll walk in and that's like, are you in, are you living in the city? Are you still living? Yeah. No, I'm living in my, I would probably still live in my parents' house in Staten Island now if it was up to me. But like, but no, so I still like, like, but, but, um, no, I lived in Staten Island and I drove into the city every day because I don't do public transportation at all. So that doesn't really work in New York, but like, you're driving every day. I probably would have swam home first if I was given the options before, before getting on like the train or the anything else. But, um, but, uh, yeah, so I'm driving in and out. So it's taking me forever. But, um, I mean, the night it wasn't that bad because I stayed late. So if I'm leaving at eight, 39 o'clock, it wasn't that bad. But getting in, if I was trying to get in at a reasonable time was the same. Yeah. But, um, yeah. And that, but like, so that's where like all that initial like, and all these crazy like, you know, get like, so I had that early relationship with G and with Hop and with, and they kind of like took me in as well. So I was spending time at the studio with Jay and I was doing this and Stout was Stout. So he's like so outspoken, so like, DJ, go do this. And it would be like some crazy task of the day. And it would be like, you know, I'm going to Jacob the jeweler for this or I'm going to do this. But it was like real grunt work and real assistant work. And really the reason I love Steve is that he was the, I knew he was the only person who would treat me like I was anybody else, as opposed to treating me like Jimmy's nephew, trying to gain points by me being happy. Cause Steve Stout had me points. Right. And he's just out. Right. And he like, he, his brain was the opposite. Like I'm going to, I'm going to make this guy. You're going to work for this. Like I get it. Like he, he understood me. He knew how crazy I was. He had then been, I had already been to Aspen with him at that point. We had had funny exchanges and we'd like arguing back and forth about things. I was right about a couple of them. He was right about it. So we had that banter already. So it was like very like give and take. He knew I wasn't, I wasn't intimidated either. So it was like a very unique. Most people weren't like, you know, him running that show. We're very like, and I was not, I was very like right back at him, anything. So it was like that kind of relationship. I ended up not staying there very long because Jimmy started another company called farmclub.com. Oh yeah. I remember. And it was like, and it was like Jimmy and Doug Morris's take on the internet when they didn't know I remember buying him internet for dummies for Christmas that year because they had, and it was like, I have this picture of him holding the book and his finger to his head. But like, and I ended up in November of 99, I came out for, I was supposed to come out for three days. Okay. And I'm still here. So like I was like, I didn't, I thought I was going back home on Sunday. And like, I never went. It was like, nice. 28, 27 years later. It's like it's time. Yeah. And I just kind of, and I ended up going to farm club. That lasted a couple of years. It was, I learned a lot. They're doing that. And then when I came back to Interscope, I kind of transitioned into, like, I ended up overseeing like all the, from the Interscope side, all the shady aftermath stuff along with. Cause you had already been. Cause I was working with him. And obviously I knew Dre from like just, I'm Jimmy's F you. So for me and a kid, like Dre was like, yeah. And just Dre, like, so like he's Dre, he's always with Jimmy. He's one of his best friends. So like I was Jimmy's 16 year old nephew, 17, eight. Now I'm working there. Now I'm working like I'm around. So like I was like growing into. And that's why you and I are both dressed like Dr. Dre today. Yes. Yeah. I don't know if people have noticed. We both, we, I did this purposely. If I ever get Dr. Dre to come on here, I'm going to dress this way as well. Because this is the Dr. Dre outfit you wear all black and white Air Force. No, I've definitely gone to places where like I can't get my shirt or something because he already bought them all or something. Like it's really. Yeah. Like they like, and I'd be like, well, I remember, I don't remember if it was James Perth someplace where I was like, I'm going to call him and let you give me a few of like he was really had everyone on hold. And I was like, this is insane. Like, but like, so that happened at one point in my life. But like, yeah, I guess we dress kind of similar, but not kind of. Yeah. So that was kind of my transition. I came back to Interscope as an A&R guy and I was really like, now I had like a few years of really like tough love, hard learning. The farm club thing was crazy because it was like a company that really didn't. Like it was like a great idea, but it was very all over the place. They never got off the ground. Yeah. I'd never really like the show and the parties with the TV show were like, great. But like the label, like it kind of like the business model didn't, well, they weren't up to speed yet. It was years ahead of its time. So now you're doing shady aftermath. Yes. And that's rolling. Obviously. That's, yeah, it's like, I mean, it's Eminem. It's Eminem and it's D12 and right into 50. Into 50. Yeah. Who is like, so now I'm like, you know, running around with them, finishing that album. Right. And it's something that's connected to the East Coast. Where you from? Yes. And it's funny because from before that, like I actually have. Because 50 was signed to Trackmasters, which Steve Stout. At Sony before that. So I was actually helping him. So you knew 50 already? We had met like once. We didn't really know each other, but I was helping like master the album before everything happened when he like a shot and everything. And then like the he ended up leaving Sony and then coming to Interscope years later. But like, so like I had already kind of had a little taste of the like that world before, before that. And then when Em and Paul and 50 showed up at the studio in LA, I mean, it was lightning in a bottle. Like it was like, what is the experience like with an artist like 50 cent coming on to the roster? And you know, he's hardest fish grease, but then you get to hear. What get Richard I try and sounds like what it's growing into. Yeah. And be right in front of your eyes. Yeah. I mean, it was I've been blessed to be a part of. More. Shit, diamond albums, like more than anybody deserves to have to be a part of. 50 cent and his. Arrival on the scene and the and the momentum and the release of get Richard I try and is the most insane thing I've ever been a part of. I've never like the energy around it, the groundswell, the feeling of just. Inevitability and like the creation of this. Superstar like that, even though it couldn't have been any less overnight, felt like it was overnight and just being and how smart he was. Besides how hot he was and how everything like being around him. And like I remember mastering the album and it was literally just me and him and big bass at. Bernie Grodman. OK. And I remember because I was so pissed because we were trying to figure out what the last songs were going to be. And it was the. The. I'll never forget it because this is before phones and you had sports on your phone or whatever. And it was that Miami, Ohio State championship game that. Like that they I think they screwed Miami out of the championship when they called the pass interference. And I had a lot of money on that game and we couldn't get the album done. And I was I was like, nobody else is sitting here because this is like, you know, obviously, like this is around New Year's and we're putting the album out in February. So we had to get the album in that night and they're arguing back and forth about the final songs. And fifth and like 50 hadn't been to bed in two days. I hadn't been to bed in two days. Like, you know, like Dre is a perfectionist. They are a mixed and mastered every song, 612 times, you know, but like can't argue with it. Because shit, it's fucking Dr. Dre. The comes out sounding like that album sounds like. But like. Like he just sitting there in that room that night and him talking to me and I just thought he was delirious. But he's like, yeah, man, it's going to be crazy. Like, man, I'm going to do this. I'm going to have clothing lines. I'm going to do energy drinks. I'm going to build this. I'm going to do this. He had like so many steps and I was like, dude, can we just finish the fucking out like amazing? I can't wait. So you don't. You don't see any of those things that he's talking. I mean, I couldn't even see my my hand in front of my face at that point. Like we hadn't slept in days, but he was so. Obviously, some are from. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, about like, I didn't say you couldn't see it because it sounded brilliant, but I definitely wasn't thinking like that. I'm still you got to think how young I am. I'm still 24 or just 25. I think it was was it 02 or 03. I was but it was like so it was like so like I'm just like this thing is about to be massive. Like this shit is crazy. Like M&M had just done a bajillion records. We had just done eight mile like. White stuff happened. Like all those thinking musically and he's yeah, he's thinking world. The average he's talking. He's thinking like real business outside of knew because of how he was that even though he was on top of the world, he wasn't going to have a 20 year run. Like I think he should nobody really has no, but I mean, but he knew like he was going to be white hot for so long and like and like I'm going to take advantage of every single opportunity and I see it and I'm going to build now and I'm going to start breaking my artist now. I'm not waiting until the next time. I'm not like I'm not doing the normal. I mean, you've heard him talk about it, but I'm not doing the normal two albums before this. Like he was talking about all that shit on the fly. We're going to do this. We're going to do this. We're going to and like it was like. And I don't know. I think I was like the first sounding board because I was the guy who was around all the time. Yeah, or other people may be still going to pull anybody. I only knew me because a lot of times I was around. It was just us, but or we were in a studio and everybody else was doing something else and we would when we would talk. Yeah. He's like that was an incredible experience that I value and I value that friendship with him to this day. He's the funniest guy in the whole universe. 50s. Great. He's the great. I love it. He's legitimately the greatest. Nobody gets like, I mean, like I like, like that's that's my guy forever. But now you're at you're fully at the label. Yes. Fully and are. Yes. You understand what you're doing as an A and R. Yes. You're no longer an assistant slash. Yeah. In your mind, are you on the OK, I want to help with the things that are here. I want to start breaking new artists. I enjoyed. The relationships with the artists and the producers and the helping them achieve what they wanted to achieve more than the corporate bullshit that was involved with record labels. But I knew. That how valuable it was for them, for me to continue to rise in the company because of how I viewed them, how I viewed producers and songwriters more so than even artists and helping them get off their their business ventures, their dreams and helping them build their businesses. No. So I think what you guys have built. And what has been a staple or what was a staple at Interscope was investing in the talent you already have. Yes. Investing in the producers. And I mean, starting with Dr. Dre. Yes. I think that model I've seen other labels try it and it's been successful for them. But I think it's just really a staple thing at Interscope. I remember hearing other producers speak about it like, yeah, when you get a deal as a producer, when you get hot, you go do a deal with Interscope. You know, Jimmy always valued that and he valued the producer as like the best A&R, best version of an A&R because he's key can create too. Right. So like it did it with Dre. And then like, you know, we had like, I mean, I mean, Will, we're talking about it. It's funny. But yes, with Will, with Tim. Yeah. Pharrell. Polo. Yeah. Like he did it like all the way. Let's get into polo. Oh, that's, you know, the run that y'all had together is legendary. I think it is. I think it's like probably the greatest story never told. But we're going to tell some of today. Okay. How did that connection happen? So that connection happened because Bubba Sparks. Well, I love. Bubba Sparks, who I love, who's shit. One of the forefathers of what really popular music is today with this country rap. Or like, I mean, the album, him and Timbaland, we made Deliverance is like. I remember the first time I saw the video, I was like, oh, shit. Yeah. He like Bubba definitely crawled so all these guys could walk for sure. But like, so Bubba, like, like we were cool. We were cool. And like, he's like, yo, you got, I got this group. You got to meet. And it was Jim Crow. The rap group, Jim Crow out of Atlanta, which was Polo to Don, Mr. Moe and Cuddy Cotel rest in peace. Who is a phenomenal voice. But those three guys were insane. And I remember going down to Atlanta to sign them, met them at the palm at the now Weston, which was the Swiss hotel, which is in my career been crazy because I ended up meeting a bunch of artists there. But and we signed them as rapper as a rap group. And we thought they were next up. Like it was like they were at a crew. It was like outcast and it was good. He mob and then it was going to be Jim Crow and Jim Crow. Like they were like the more pop leaning, like, but like Polo was like, you know, Paul, like and he like we really we connected right off the bat, me and Polo and like and we like became super close and they put out a couple records. But it didn't really connect like we thought it was going to. And at that same time, 50 science, Tannersco, so the whole company becomes like, oh, shit, becomes like as much as it was already M&M or whatever, 50 cent heavy company. Because for a minute there, Jim Crow, like it was a big deal. We were competing with other labels like they were like they were next up. That was going to be the first thing that I really signed that went crazy. Right. And it didn't because Black Eyed Peas hadn't gone crazy yet. So it was going to be like. And it didn't happen for real. And I remember. Telling him I remember it was Thanksgiving break and I had to call him and tell him we were going to drop the group. And it was like sickening. I had never had to do that before. And I but in there, I had seen him in the studio with Jazzy Faye. And all then when Jazzy Faye was Jazzy Faye was producing those records. I was like, man, Polo, you could be a producer. Like I see how you see things like you think and you move like you could do this. And we get on the phone and we talk for like two hours. And I'm like, you really should be a producer. He goes, I don't produce. I'm not a producer. And he goes, all right, will you manage me? And I was like, well, I'm not a manager. I don't even know what the first thing about being a manager is. I was like, but shit, we'll figure it out together. And that's literally how it started. It started as me that next Monday. Mm hmm. Call in everybody called up my boy, Tubby, who was working for Big John at the time. You know, I got the hottest new producer in the game. He's about to be the biggest thing in the world. Polo, Polo did on. He's never made a beat. I mean, he might have, but I never heard it. So like we're like, like we are now walking into meetings. He had this one beat and it was crazy. And we're walking in, playing this beat and being like, when I play and y'all nothing else. This is it. Like this is how good he is. I'm only playing one beat. There was only one. That's my poker. Yeah. And it was like, like it was crazy. We were walking around to every single room. Like, you don't understand. We did shit. Polo did on. This is the greatest of all time. Like I named him Polo did on, by the way. He's the name was Polo Frisier or something. And I was like, what the hell does that even mean? I can't say it. I can't spell it. Like that's a terrible name. And I was like, and I'm one of those Jim Crow songs. He goes, y'all know who it is. Polo did on. And I was like, that's your name. I was like, that's it. I'm not asking. Like that's what it is. And he stuck with it and he read because I was like, Polo Frisier. I was like, because I'm French. I was like, what, what, what did that even mean? Because I'm French. Yeah. I was like, what? I was like, what? But so like Polo did on is born. Yeah. And now we decided that. And it's Jimmy's just blind belief. Because I told him, I said, I promise you, I'm going to make this work. He gave us a song deal. Close and a big one, but it was just enough for us to get moving. So we had an eight song deal at Inno Scope. Yeah. And now we're like starting to figure it out. He's making this. I tell him, I need a beat CD. So you got to figure it out. He made a beat CD. It took him like forever. And I was on him every day, but he made a beat CD like he was making the chronic. Like this first beat out CD is like insane. Like insane. Like, I mean, Bone Crusher did the intro. Like it was like a beat CD. Like, I mean, like I'm talking about the beats or songs that became like London Bridge and Run Away Love. And like, and this is the first beat CD ever. I'm trying to think there was like a bunch of them, the pimping all over the world. Like all these records and like this beat CD. But like we're walking in and then our good friend, your good friend and his good friend from childhood, Ethiopia, yeah, realizes what we're doing. And she takes the gamble of her life and stamps us as like, no, these guys are the shit. Polo's the next guy. Right. For no reason other than we said we were the next people. Like there was no it was based on nothing but belief, nothing. Like it was like we were selling like, you know, we knew we could sell ketchup to somebody wearing white gloves. Like it was that kind of thing. We we had it figured out we were we were going to make it work. And it was what's the first hit? First hit was Pimpin' All Over The World. Polo did a bunch of rest. Shaka, we drove him crazy. And like he sold a bunch of beats to Shaka. One of them was one of my favorites was called All On My Hoses. Ridiculous. And it was Polo singing All On My Hoses. Ridiculous. I mean, that was the whole song. And man, you don't get it. That's still the greatest song of all time. Nobody got like, you know, it's still like that kind of like. But Polo was originally singing Pimpin' All Over The World. And it's like, and yeah, that was. And then when Ludacris did that record and he I mean, he put it on the album. He put it on the album. And all of a sudden it was like, wait a minute, like. This is real. Yeah. Like we like we tricked the world. Like it actually happened. Like, like I didn't. No, I mean, you don't get it in and then we deliver it. I'm saying, but it worked is what I mean. Like, yeah. And then it's a little and it worked. And that and the snowball that came from his mind, like the two of us together, we were so because he's a gambler, too. We were so in. Yes, he is. We were so in tune in like. If I have fifty fifty thousand dollars, I'll bet fifty one thousand dollars on what I believe, like, because I'll drop. I'll lose it all on rather than not take the chance on something that I believe can happen, that I see now as attainable. Right. So like. And now we're talking like, I mean, within. No, that it happened three years. Within two years, three years, I mean, it was hot within a year. But within three years, he had like the number one record on rap, pop and R&B at the same time, the three different records. Like it was like it became like. Now I remember. But what a dog. I remember getting my deal. I did my DLJ records. And I just wanted to work with all my friends. It was like my way of. I don't know. I guess that's how I've always been. I'm like, if I fuck with you, if I ever come by some money and we can figure out something to do together, I want to call you. And. Polo was one of those calls. You were one of those calls, right? For for me to work with Polo. And I remember him playing me, London Bridge. And I was like, what the fuck? This is a great record of our time. Valentine. That's I'm telling you this shit right here. It's gonna take over the world. I'm like, can't argue with you. It was I can't argue this fucking record. I think we were at childless when he played it for me. It was like this is special. It was explosive. Like this shit is what the fuck? He's one of those guys that just. I'm going to do what you say can't be done. Right. That's just is I'm going to show you I'm one of the greatest. Like, yeah. That's why I'm the shit and why you don't get it. Like, and he just goes into like, I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you. And like, and then it's just like and then it's just like and that record. I mean, God, the insanity he put me through with that record. Because if you know anything about Polo to Don, he'll give the same record to 75 people and tell him all like, man, until they pay for until they go. He ain't wrong. Yeah. I mean, and his favorite line to me ever. You will manage a manager situation. That's what that's what he would say to me. Once again, he ain't wrong. The craziest like in the craziest like he wouldn't tell artists till the day before they were mastering their album and give them my home phone number and they would call me and I wouldn't even know. It would be like, it would be like, oh, yeah, I'm trying to clear this record. And I'd be like, OK, cool. And they played for me and I'd be like. That's such a such as record. That's Ludacris a single. That's Fergie single. That's this. I'm like, what the hell? And I'm like, they're like, what do you mean? We already mastered it. We already put this guy on it. We ready to it's like because these are nuclear records. Polo like like Polo, I don't think he doesn't have the catalog. Most people have that many album cuts. Polo makes like these like a lot of guys have these catalogs like a zillion songs. Right. Polo made the most like punch you in the face. Single. I'm going to do this. I'm going to get this guy with this guy and make this record cut. And it's like, all right, man, go make that. And then he'd make it happen. You'd be like, OK, now we got it. Like and like and that's just kind of how we were like everything. There was like like a real run there. Like that was like between what was happening at Interscope with. And then Paul and fifth and all those guys and then the black IPs. And then what started to happen with because with Polo on my business because like that was my first management client. Right. And like. Like so my company, which like so fake work was born and with Polo. Was this hilarious? Yes, it was. You call here you call here company, fake work was the funniest shit to me. I mean, because I knew you personally, I know you personally, but I knew you personally and I'm like, this is his fuck you to people. Yeah. This is his fuck you to people. It's like, yo, listen, I get it. I'm Nepo, baby. Look at these fucking numbers. Yeah. Look what I've done. Yeah, it kind of just. What y'all want? As you know, call it fake work. It was a little of both. It was a little of that and a little of, OK, I don't want to get complacent. I'm competitive. Now, if I name my company this and I fail, I not only embarrass me, I embarrass Jimmy, I embarrass everybody. So I have to win if I do this. And I just fucking loved it. It was a great license plate. Like, I mean, the shit was crazy. Like, still my license plate to this day if you walk outside. But like it like it like it just kind of was it just fit like to me. Like the other choice for my company name was no buttons because I didn't have any buttons in my closet. I just worry and I thought that was funny. But no, it's not fake work. It was like that's where like my brain went with everything. And I was like, but fake work just kind of cut through. And I could tell just from the reaction, it either got a laugh or it got like it got like a what the fuck? Oh, man, now I got to defend you again for something else. Like I'm my brother, Chris Glancy, like for who, you know, manages it, but he was my right. Like I was the A&R guy and he was the marketing guy. So we did everything together. Every shady, every after everything. It was like in me. And when I named my keys, like, bro, like seriously, like I already defend you to fucking everybody all the time because you're nuts and you say the craziest shit all the time. And you're just like, you know, march to the beat of your own drum. But now I got to defend it. He hated it. But he probably still hates it, but he doesn't have to deal with me anymore. So he puts up with it. But like I had it was a lot of both those reactions, but it worked for me because I knew like I needed that. Just extra just to try to be, to really take it all the way. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, I'm really. A family guy who loves being with my family, who loves being at home, who loves doing that more than I really like love being out, love being at the studio. I'm competitive and I like doing, but I needed that extra push to be like, I got to be like, A1 at this at all times. Because otherwise I'll make a fool of myself. Clearly Polo is the first management client. Yes. Right. And now you guys have the song deals over that. And now it's the label time. Yes. And publishing and the world of zone foe, break work. Yeah. Esther Dean. Yes. Esther Dean comes in. I mean, Esther Dean comes in like five years later, but she got she came in polo saw something. I mean, she had already been in Atlanta. She had a deal with she had like a pub deal with like a tricky remark in them. Yeah. And she but like, I remember Polo calling me and be like, man, I got it. I got it. I got the one. I got the one. And I was and he brought, I remember him bringing her out to Interscope and introducing her to Jimmy. And it just became like one of those like moments, even though most of Dean's hits ended up not on Interscope, like they ended up because you think about it. If you think about it, Rihanna, Katy Perry, Kelly Clarkson, Nicki Minaj, none of those records are Interscope. No, they're not. But she that grounds for the people that don't know, as we said, the artists, but let's talk about the records though. So people that are just watching that are novels are novices toward, you know, somebody in inner workings and who are the people behind these records. Oh, of course. Say the records though. Yes. So Esther Dean wrote. Rude boy. Rude boy for Rihanna. And that was like really like the first one that really exploded. Yeah. Like and then because she did it with Stargate. And then that partnership became like her and Polo did records that were like, you know, like throughout the years, like Hot Toddy and like Lil Freak and like trying to think of all the records. They had a record that was on the Pussycat Dolls. That's evading me at the moment. They had a bunch of. They had a bunch of they did the I think I love her for Gucci, which is one of my favorite records ever. Crazy. Cause completely different completely different. But like that run she had with Stargate was. Did they do fireworks? Rude boy. They did fireworks. They did SNM. They did What's My Name. Did you do Superbass? They for Nikki? Who did? Because she wrote Superbass. She wrote Superbass. Yeah, that's like her. And then she wrote another huge Rihanna record too. What's my name? She wrote What's My Name? What we said. What's my name SNM? Rude boy. And then like. And say. Where have you been? I mean, she wrote, I mean, she had. But like that. I mean, Dean just had this sound. Yes. She just had. I mean, and then she had her own record. Yeah. Drop it low. Still. Which was another one of those moments. I was at that video shoot. So was I. Yeah. We were together. I remember. And I was. But it was another one of those moments. Cause that was at a time for Chris after like, where in Dean and Dean put, I mean, Polo put Chris on that record. It was Adamant. Like we're not putting it out. Right. We're not doing anything without. We were fighting against Chris at that point. Yes. And we're not really. And he's like, nope. He's saying on this record and it's a smash. Yeah. Drop it low was what it was called. And it was like the first single from the LeBron James documentary, more than a game documentary. And it was a. Like Dean just was like, off like there are just moments where you with somebody where like every single thing she did sounded like a hit. Yeah. And it was her voice. But sometimes it was like every artist like, I can't say that anywhere near as good as her. Yeah. Like, can we just put it out with her and say it's me? Like, it was great. Like that Kelly Clarkson song was huge. Missed to know it all was Dean. Like she just had a. And then what did she end up doing like the real song? Yeah. Oh, no. And then she transitioned. Then she transitioned to pitch perfect. She was in all the pitch perfect movies. She did the theme for like literally Dean was like, DJ, I want to go. I want to be in movies. I want to do voices. So my boy Tony Seiler who ran TV and film. He's like, I'll set you up a meeting at Universal. We went to one meeting. She left with a job like a like she left with like an acting role of voiceover role. And it's managing Dean at the time. Yes. Yes. I managed Dean through that whole thing till the tail end of that run. But like she had and she was all she was her own. She was a piece of work herself, but she was awesome. Such an awesome, such an awesome person. So fun. And then y'all also had hit boy and chase. Yes. Hit boy was the first sign into the publishing company. Yo, like, so it was like hit boy on the publishing company. And then the label was like, cause we didn't have a label yet, but like, so now I'm backtracking a couple of years, but the label was we wanted to sign artists. Right. And we had two artists that we wanted to sign. Like you got to let us sign. Ron Galea was still running Urban Music at the time of dinner scope. You got to let us sign these two artists. We had rich boy. And rich boy and this other artist who was singing the hooks on two of the songs on rich boys demo. We wanted to sign both, but we were told you only can sign one and you guys should sign the rapper because you guys work more in rap music. You're rapper. Like that's more what you are. The guy singing the hooks on those songs was a con man. So wait, wait, wait. He was singing the hooks on rich boy songs. Yeah. Like I don't know. All like kill. I still kill. I got to find that demo tape somewhere, but it was like, yeah. And a con ended up being somewhat successful. What? Like at the end of the day, coming back around and doing a deal with y'all from the label side, right? After he ended up. So Steve Rifkin, I love. So I'm happy Steve, all the money you make made because they ended up a con ended up on SRC. Yeah. But like he literally was like, cause you know, they're always like, I tell stories and I always like kind of like, I don't want to say out people, but I just tell the truth. So and like back in the day, people were wrong a lot because it wasn't like it is today where people are still going to go out today. But I mean, but a lot more of signings and things are done based on numbers. You're signing something that's already taking off somewhere and you're acquiring it and you're hoping they're good and then you try to figure it out after and like hope they are willing to develop artist wise like they're but sometimes you're just acquiring and praying for rain. Back then it was a lot more like, you know, you had to like you know, you had to like predict it. You know, you had to predict. Yeah. I was gambling. Yeah. I was like with everything. So I tell a lot of stories. So were you, okay, let's ask them or I asked, were you trying to do the ACON deal? You were trying to do that. Oh, of course we wanted both. We wanted both, but I understood why would they give us a chance for both? We hadn't done anything at that point. So like, why would they let us like two artists? It was it was cocky and greedy, but fucking we thought they were both great like and it was like and I mean, I still believe which boy is one of the most underrated albums that like that I've been a part of. I think it's an incredible debut album and then a kind of everything kind of went left after that. But like. ACON was and then what I was saying was I tell those stories and like it might sound like like I'm calling people out when they're wrong or whatever, but I do it about to myself too. Like I've been wrong a lot, but like it's because I believe in things and I take chances on the things I believe in, but like on the ACON one missing out on that one really double heard us because a year or two later or whatever. There was this artist that we desperately wanted to sign that my boy actually my boy stat quo. Ended up on the remix to the song that ended up launching this guy at least the version that played in LA and that's how I even heard it to begin with. But that artist ended up being T pain that we were desperately to sign and who did he ended up signing to but ACON who obviously if he was with us would have been like so like if you think about the how much that one not happening turned into. Yeah, like think about zone four at the beginning with ACON and T pain like is like insane. I was massive like it's like it's like who knows how it would have played out if ACON was with us if you never know because things change when that when relationships change. But if you just do it like on the odds like we ended up losing the other artists we really wanted to the artists we didn't sign because he took it to drive. You know because ACON took pain to drive or did a deal there like his con whatever that was with divine and whatever they would do. But yeah, so like that was like so like but so we had rich boy on the artist side and then Kerry Hilsen those were the two artists that we start and Kerry was a joint with Timbaland and then we had the publishing side Polo had these guys he heard on I don't want to misspeak but I think my space they hit him up on my space something like that and it was just too young like a well hit boy was from the IE but I think Chase was staying out of to it's from the Orleans but like but like and we met them like right around when we put out London Bridge so it was like right all that was like happening at the same time and 06 so hit boy was 19 Chase was around the same age and might be exactly as I made actually and but like so they've been with us and they were with us from that moment as well so Polo really like together we had something special and Polo really I don't think he gets credit for how good of a talent finder he really is yeah well across the board producers to songwriters to artists and the visionary and what he sees. So question a question for that yeah right because there was this whole thing about hit boy being in a publishing deal for 15 20 30 years yeah and you being the publisher with that yeah what is the story to that. I mean the real story is hit boys the first person we ever signed okay we had a joint venture with Universal. Shit the I mean very simply the amount of money we were given to sign our first artist being able to give them each 50 grand sounded like the greatest thing in the whole universe like they had never done anything and like even when I talked to hit that that time he was telling us his other offers were like five grand 10 grand so to us we were like okay we have this let's five exit forget about giving them 20 25 let's give him 50 and like and start this process and back then those deals were like like the same deal Polo sign Polo's deal was for more money but it was still 800% MDRC and the records have to come out and they have to be licensed and they have to be this like it was like the craziest process of all time just to get a song to count that even was out forget about having all those songs even come out they even once they came out all the splits aren't settled this isn't settled like that process was crazy but when we did that deal we thought we were doing something like we weren't like we didn't think we got over on anybody we were like shit like we like they gave us like they're giving us a little chance at first they give us 100 grand fuck it we're giving it to these two guys all of it we're betting on them like so to us it was like that was the most we we couldn't have given him 60 grand we couldn't have gotten a clear so that was it like we maxed so but like it was never that from my understanding right I'm only on the outside looking in it was never about the actual money that was given no more so about no I wasn't done with that was the start of the year and then as the years go on then like what happened was it took them a few years to have success like hit like their first big records were like that the song would Eminem and little Wayne drop the world oh yeah and then obviously hip boy did Paris for Kanye and Jay and like but at that point Polo and I had stopped working together so like I was still managing hip boy but like it was so I was still working with hip boy and chase but Polo and I had gone our separate ways everything was fine but it was just we were doing separate businesses and right as all the as he was starting to actually make muscle now like it's now with 2012 that deal was in 2006 so now he's finally starting to like have motion whatever and then hit boy besides he wants to do the artist thing we do his label deal at Enterscope he's doing the artist thing the production thing he gets a great deal over there as well hip boy had a deal there as well. I stopped working with hip boy as well so now hip boy by the time hit boy and we were trying to fix they were trying to fix that deal. None of the people that were working with him and originally were a part of are still a part of it. Yeah. So now he's trying to and I was no longer a part of the company like Polo and I had gone our separate ways Polo never maintained the company I maintain my management company we decided we wanted to be clean and be friends and like that was what it was going to be so as that happened like he got hit boy got caught up I think and like he went to rock nation they were trying to say they they could get him out they were going to do this. I don't think Polo was ever aggressively like again I'm speaking for Polo not for myself but I don't feel like he was ever aggressively like no we're not letting him out of the car I figured out like universally you figure it out like whatever like as he had options and he had deals and then he took another advance and then it was like OK and like and then it just became that snowballed and it just like became this long drawn out process because he was still in this crazy deal I can't speak to the business side of it because if you look at it now in 2026 20 years ago he signed an insane publishing if you look at it today like options and how many songs you got to deliver each time and all that's what it was back then it wasn't like we like we literally thought we would do and something for two guys that like hadn't didn't have a placement of any kind yet right we were just betting on him and as we everything grew we moved hit boy and chased down to Atlanta they were all in like Zaks when we rent a scope rented the whole studio out we had a whole world down there like we were putting everything everything every dollar the label was never profitable because we were trying to make it bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger because we were like no let's reinvest let's get make them rent the studio 365 days a year let's have everybody come down here let's pay for everybody to live here let's bet like it was like just grounds well of that and so it's really unfortunate like me and hit connected over the years a few times and like like we're cool now like hipway just did versus against Mike who's obviously my business partner and like so like so I was cool cool moment when he said something really nice about me on stage I that was awesome but like it's a shame that that happened the way it did and it wasn't and it was like frustrations boiling over and something that I think I believe if I was still involved would have been handled very easily like it would have just been like let's figure out a way to process we'll give him his own deal we'll fix this we'll do this we'll so partner you in this way it's not it wasn't I don't believe it was that hard it was just like a lot of not no not even miscommunication a lot of no communication yeah is what it felt very important yeah no communication is very and like and once I wasn't involved me stepping in I was like almost like I don't say the bad guy but I was almost like the bad guy in every situation there was no there was no wind for me I just wanted everybody to be happy and help but like I wasn't in any part of the business so my opinion was like yeah that's cool but like what's your skin and what do you lose if this happens nothing so like that's like we appreciate your input and advice but like I wasn't working with hipway or my or polo at that time so like and I didn't work at universal publishing ever and I didn't like and at that point I didn't even work at universal anymore Jimmy and I had left so like I wasn't even like in the building to go down the street to like be like yo come on like it wasn't like me and Ethiopian all that stuff we had done that wasn't the because we could have fixed that yeah and I and I asked that because a lot of people don't they see headline of course and they don't they don't they don't know the inner workings of business and why these things are drug or dragged out yeah the way they are sometimes and the unfortunate side of all the other intricate parts that people don't know about if it's a renegotiation if it's you know this mdrc if it's you know these certain deal points weren't met yeah because that's the thing like publishing is a very tricky business yes so very tricky business a penny business and the whole process behind publishing is for the these publishing companies these major companies to hold you in it as long as they can yes so it's like oh yeah that don't count yeah this it's it's gotten better but back then I mean the mdrc like you're literally talking about eight songs and you know you tell him eight songs that's 16 that means eight songs have like you have 10% of songs that's 80 songs that's 32 you know what I mean if it's yeah I mean like and like so and they had to be released on majors yes and it had to be albums not eps and sometimes soundtracks and sometimes they don't count them on one album yeah we'll cap it out capped out at six songs all like 100% on an album yeah and you're capped out like so like there were so many ways to keep you to keep literally one of my proudest moments which is kind of comes from publishing is polo was at the end of his deal polo's at the end of no not his deal it was at the end of one of his periods of his deal and we were like 50% away from being them having to exercise the next option polo is white hot at this point white like the hot at his peak yeah probably that I think he was the number two writer in universal at the time or something like that he was like it was polo to Don at his peak he had done two songs on the field mob album that would have qualified him for the it would have once once they are yeah once they counted it would have done so my boy worked at Interscope and he helped and they I sent it in and I called and I said when these two songs license were good and of course they weren't rushing to license it because polo's next option was it wasn't even that big it was crazy his option was like 200 grand up front but they owed him like a million five in royalty so it didn't even matter if they would have given him the 200 they just would have paid him 1.3 two months later but like so having this conversation so it was just the dump and this is what I mean by just people getting in their own way just stupid so like I go okay fine you don't want to pay him yet they were just pushing it off it was the next quarter whatever dumb thing so I got the two songs licensed but I didn't say anything about it I just got him licensed got them official dated licensed and then I Doug Davis and I we sent in the option notice but said nothing just sent in the option notice and like 30 days later they didn't respond polo was out of his publishing deal oh shit the hottest producer in the game was out of his publishing deal because they didn't respond yeah and they they didn't next 30 days exercise your option no response and it's like well they were sponsored while you didn't like the songs aren't licensed so I said no look and it was like 38 days ago they waited a few extra days just in case and in the system it said like whatever day and it was like six weeks and it was like they're out oh shit like there was no yeah and so let's just say we resigned with Universal for a tad more than $200,000 I'm sure and probably more than that 1.3 on top of that so much more like it was like I remember calling polo going like we did it like it happened like oh my god like oh my god like it was like and it worked yeah and it was like which was a little crazy because I worked at Universal at the university so like I have this like crazy thing because I worked for Jimmy but at the same time like I was like loyal I mean I was well I'm I'm a team sports player I'm loyal guy but at the same time I care more about my clients and my business than I do about like if people like when they jerked me around and didn't want to we needed the 200 grand for something I think we wanted to put it into if I remember what year it was I don't know if it was like there was a record we wanted to like put money behind on our own and pull it and just go get that money tell him we want this right now and like and I'm putting in this and they said no and it was like oh fuck dude you always like literally you're going to give it to us in two months he's your hottest writer he's working with everybody you want you don't want to just advance us like 12% of what you owe us already like it's the stupidest thing ever just to say what just like to make him happy no okay fine and I just never mentioned it again I was like I'm not going to argue with you I'm just going to go and like it was like one of those moments where it was like oh yeah I can do anything like it was like like like I like attention to detail is not not especially in the 2000s 90s 2000 was not like expertise up in most of those places it was like very like running a million miles an hour trying to keep up with Jimmy or whatever idea he had and like all the staff meetings were like us keeping up with him really and being prepared and always being a week behind his next idea and playing like running after like it was but it was I mean that time at Inescope Records was I mean it seems fake compared to like when you go to record labels today nothing against it but it's very like sterile and very kind of like your company your company is called fake work so you know I mean but I mean yes but I'm talking about like the amount of artists walking through there the energy unfair in the studio building the studio across the street and working on the fourth floor artists running running into my office going up to Jimmy's office for the meeting then coming back and parking themselves in my office the rest of the day arguing about songs I had like the sports ticker running around I had like gambling people playing cards at my desk records playing like three sports that yeah everybody just like this gambling going on there's records it's like Sean Garrett and Polo arguing about a record over there like like like Drake showed up a few times like before well before he signed anywhere because he was close with Hitboy and Chase with the Holla back T-slack when they were running around at the beginning like it was like all these different and just different artists and just coming at that time at Jasper just showed up there randomly because he came up with I think Dallas or somebody and showed up in my office wearing a highlighter yellow outfit and just sat there for ten minutes and I was like this is the greatest guy of all time and he's still one of my dearest friends this day like all these things and it was like that energy was like that's like the most special time like just there was those years that were just like and you couldn't miss like it was really like we were making records like a gold record was a disaster right platinum record was like alright fine you can show your face kind of thing like it was like but it was not because you know it was happening at such a high level it was happening it was like everything that could happen and then y'all also another thing that I feel like Polo deserves more credit for is being a producer to break artists right because every producer can't do that right every producer can write every producer tries but actually accomplishing that like especially out the gate with rich boy and then now y'all move into this R&B space and y'all got Carrie Hillson because Esther Dean was a little more she was hip-hop R&B she was she was a hip-hop R&B artist even even though she's a really great singer she to me she skewed from her artistry it still felt hip-hop am I wrong in saying that no it was also it was also later right but I'm just saying I'm talking about the artist that he's working on yes I feel like Carrie was the straight ahead R&B artist for you guys and and when she came it was like okay can he pull this off to me when I when I saw it because I had also known Carrie right I know Carrie from when she was in a group with Anthony Dent from the Hitman okay and the group had performed for me and me and Carrie was funny when she came on the podcast we talked about it and I was like oh she's dope and me and her got cool after that roundabout through Ethiopia right and we're writing songs together so when she did the deal with Polo and then y'all brought in Timberland are she brought into however the deal was done with the two of them with the two of them it was just like okay how does this work you got these two super producers at the time you got Polo who's been more so concentrated on being like a hip-hop producer and having these big beats and this whole thing and then now you got straight ahead R&B artists yeah I pulled that shit off yeah it was a it was a it was a long time coming yeah and it was a very unique situation because now we're getting into a lot of different things on how that all came together but like Polo and Timberland already had a deal it Timberland had a deal in there Polo didn't technically have a deal he was just at Interscope all the time because he was with me so when we did the deal for Carrie it was like okay they're gonna split it but so he didn't have a deal at Interscope for Ridgeboard? He had like a one-off but like zone four it wasn't a label because if it was a label we would have signed a con we would have signed a bond like so like it was like they gave us a chance and they gave us a chance with Rich Boy it was like a one or like a production deal but like a treated like like a JV and then Carrie we got that second chance because it was basically Timberland's deal where because he had the label and we gave Polo half like it was Polo's deal but I mean that's how it worked and Timberland so now that whole thing happens we sign Carrie and now there's like this lot we're trying to figure out what it's gonna be and Timberland had this Timberland ends up losing his deal at Interscope like Timberland and Jimmy kind of like split ways and now we're trying to we're trying to figure out care Polo we're trying to figure it out Tim we're still working on the music but like the because Timberland's original company was called Beat Club and the Beat Club was was Bubba and Miss Jade and a bunch of the artists and Carrie Hilsen was like on the tail end of that and I don't remember if she had technically signed to Beat Club but she was Timberland and and Polo and Polo and then what happened was Timberland like I remember like Timberland's now out of the Interscope building but we're still working on Carrie Hilsen and Polo calls me one night and he goes man DJ you gotta come to Miami I'm like I don't want to come to Miami it's far it's like it's far it's far he goes you gotta come to Miami man I'm telling you you gotta come see Timberland I'm like all right he goes no you don't get it you don't get it you gotta come see Timberland so I came down there and I hear the beginning of what is this next run which is Danger Hands, Timberland, Carrie, yeah all those guys so that beginning of that energy and that whole thing and then I call Jimmy from there and I go Jimmy we gotta give Timberland another label deal and he goes after they had just parted he goes you're out of your fucking mind I remember like yesterday I go I'm telling you you have to do it Polo was hitting him on the side too like you have been Jimmy you gotta be with Tim I go just take the meeting please take the meeting Timberland comes to LA and he plays a few demos Carrie was on them like whatever right yeah Jimmy looked I remember him looking at me like yesterday like he just looks and I saw the face and I was like oh this deal is getting done in the next 12 hours I was like I knew it and he knew it and that turned into this magical I mean shit Timberland took over like if you think of that run Timberland had from 2006 to 2011 yeah or whatever that was like I mean I don't because that's the is that the Nelly for now well that's where that whole thing came from that whole thing came from so now once Jimmy does that deal they send me the Nelly for Tato album and they're like oh they had a record together back in the day get Timberland to do a song we listen to the album and no disrespect but we were like oh hell no we're not putting Timberland's new sound on this we'll do it if you put it on our label and we get to redo the whole album I was finished or it's found the least I tell you it was presented to me as finished it was like Polly and my guy Tom Pannonzio and but Jimmy was like listen and I remember Colin Jimmy being like this is what's gotta be if you believe in it because we will deliver like Tim's excited about it and I remember hitting me every day like yo is it gonna happen is it gonna happen I'm torturing Jimmy and he's like I'm working on it I'm working on it and we got it done and we went in and we went to the hit factory I spent so many days at the Mandarin Oriental in Miami like I can't even count like because they would only work in the middle of the night so I'm just sitting there every day but like and we made that album and that album turned into obviously then he continues to go work with Justin then he made shock value and then and like that run and it was a way to kick off Carrie and it was a way to and it was like in the meantime we were like figuring out like if those records were gonna stick with Carrie because then by the time if you think about it by the time Carrie came out even though she was a part of that sound she was like that was like the tail end of it you know what I mean like she even though she was such a major part in the creation of it it almost felt like she was like the eighth artist to do it now because those records hadn't come out with her on it so like Nellie had done it Justin had done it the Pussycat Dolls had a song right that was originally a Carrie song wait a minute on the album like those songs like ended up becoming like oh shit I'm a writer too fuck this while we're figuring it all out like what is the then but then like and then it was like okay now we have this Timbaland's hot Polo's hot but what's the record what's the record and that was that moment when like Polo played Turn Me On was like oh shit I still remember and I'm sure I said it on the on the on the show before I still remember Ethiopia playing me that record and where I was like you know that's when to me that's when things are special yeah I remember where I was the first time I heard grinding by the clips and I remember where I was the first time I heard Turn Me On it was at the valet of the Westwood W right by where I lived at the time and Ethiopia was like you gotta hear this record I just need to need to know what you think because I'm so different yeah so people can act like it was oh yeah no no no really different I was like what the fuck is that and why is that not the first record yeah oh you know the record is it's different and I'm like because I went to the first video was energy it was energy she's boxing the whole shit I was at the video set and I'm like this ain't Turn Me On this isn't it I think it was just because you weren't in the video no no no had nothing to do with it had nothing to do with it it just wasn't Turn Me On brother I was like no you're right cool song it's a rocket ship there are that y'all got in y'all pocket to break an artist and really try to cut through in the lane she was trying to cut through and you had to have something that made people say what the fuck is that and that's just kind of like what London Bridge was for Fergie Hill and like like because it was like if you think about London Bridge for Fergie it was like a lot of like when we were making that album Fergie's album like they were great songs but like some of them sounded like black IP songs with the black IPs just weren't on right like the black people so massive at that time like it was like like you know like those other songs sounded like like Beep and a couple of the other ones sounded like well Beep was supposed to get those no but the what was the second record from I'm trying to for Galicious was like sounded like a like it was an incredible record but it sounded like a continuation of the incredible hits the black IP driving over and over that were diamond diamond diamond diamond but it just like but to have Fergie have a project that stood out I was like we needed like something that was like who the fuck is that like you play and you don't know who the fuck it is right like what I had me on was kind of like that like it was like like Wayne was as white hot as anybody could be and we got him on Polo I told you I got you and then him calling it coining Miss Carrie baby like it was like the whole like her saying it him saying it was just like you know I do in the bottom yeah cuz he was like you know Carrie now he has at this point he has to solidify breakout artists yeah you know I'm saying made like hit songs made his songs from them yeah nobody heard of these artists publicly before this and to me like I said I don't think as a producer Polo gets the credit for that and obviously you know he ended he was the first one to bring back this black cowboy thing I mean with with Kane Brown yeah another conversation I remember having with him with I know I'm about change word again yeah you know black like I'm like Polo I could tell he's black no no no you don't know he black I'm like I know he black Polo right but you don't get it this is gonna you don't get it we're gonna be the great he always say that if you don't agree fast enough you don't get it if you knew better you do which is another part where I remember telling him I said bro you're so important to the music business because you're willing to stand on the table yep literally willing to stand on the table where most people would just sit in the corner 100 and when you're trying to break new artists you're trying to break writers you're trying to tell people that this is the next thing you can't just be like yeah this is cool when I got this it has to be you understand right this is the greatest because I'm the greatest and I know what the greatest sound like and you got a Don King this thing yeah right and I've always had so much respect for him and just that that confidence to do that and to be one of those people in our business because when people don't agree and maybe it doesn't work it's even more magnified right because it's like you said if you're wrong on some things they love to oh yeah that's nothing better than that like I know for a fact that like even though it was our company or whatever there were people rooting against our records sure because just because we had such a electric stranglehold obviously Jimmy obviously like we had such like a in and like if it started working it was just you know our world and no Polo really is a very very unique talent because of his ability to live in both where his real ability to put artists together that other people wouldn't do right to try things that other people wouldn't do and be a recommend and be a recommend and be able to walk in those rooms and sell it and like really like yeah like we getting yanged me and hit like when we like wanted something we very rarely didn't get it so like it was like it was a very and like you know we weren't right all the time but we had a really good batting and we like that's part of the business you know and like but like but like we really complimented each other well and it was a really really good run that you know I regret ended like because but it's life it's part of that and I and I and it's business and to be fair I was blessed with working with somebody else for the last 15 years my segue now of then you go and you connect with Mike will and y'all go on another massive massive run and credit kind of money making Matt shout him out Matt Big Neal was trying to sign Mike to publishing okay Ethiop to Ethiopia Polo and I weren't working together anymore Ethiopia calls me and says you have to go to Atlanta you have to go meet Mike will and I was like I was aware of who he was right he had records moving like a no lie was just moving like a two chains and Drake and but I had heard like I think Tupac back was out already there were and all those Gucci man mixtapes like I was a Gucci man fan so I knew who he was I go cool but like I don't really have like an artist at mind right then that I wanted I was like thinking like like I don't know like maybe soldier boy maybe like who could like who could I like wrap that I was in like that I could like try to like re-resort whatever like if it's something that makes sense and then she goes no no no no he you need to manage him and I was like he doesn't have a manager I was like he's like on fire what do you mean you don't know and I was like yeah she's like because he doesn't I was like wait doesn't have a publishing deal I was like alright I was like okay so I got on a plane and I go sit down there and I go meet Mike and I walk in the room and I just listened to him he was it was at the what's that place called the with that only has the one studio in one studio in Atlanta silent sound okay silent sound wish on Garrett working stuff and so we're in that room and I'm just sitting there looking at him and he's playing these records and he's talking and it's like and he's showing me all the business and he already has like PNSD and Mars and plus in this like crew of eardrummers and like he's explaining to me the business and how like he doesn't want to do anything until they're taking care of too because it's family and the way he's talking it just sounds exactly like everything my business was built on and we're just talking like and we're just like firing through it and I'm like this shit is crazy and I leave and like he's at the end he's like yo we're going to the strip club like I was like I'm going to Waffle House I'm not going to strip club you want to come to Waffle House and he's like nah bro he goes nobody's ever said no before and I was like that's just not me man but I love what I'm hearing and like if you really want to rock like I see it and I like I know it's only one meeting and that's the opposite of me I usually get to know somebody like I've never worked with anyone on purpose in my business that I didn't know very well like I already knew Polo obviously for a long time then HitBoy they did the publishing deal with but I started managing him after we built a relationship boy Wanda after we built Dean after I got to really know her like obviously Kerry I worked with Ethiopia after we already had for a while like everything was like a derivative of something in my company like I never like had done that before but like and I was like let's just start talking and see what happens and within a week the two weeks it was like oh yeah we're going to try this and then we just built out this business but Mike Will has just the ability to pull things out of people that they didn't even know they could do and to have a vision for things and when you talk about breaking artists and like making like that step with the person yeah if you think of the amount of times he's done that he doesn't get 5% of the credit he should get he literally had the record that broke two chains future all those early records that like put like all that stuff they did he brought like bands that make a dance Juicy J like that solo thing like he did obviously Ray Schrummer out of like a group with five platinum records out of the first album I think I was there the first day they came to Interscope I want to say I was there I want to say that I was actually up there when they walked them in I believe it and I was like who are these two little guys yeah they had not like they had just seen like trees for the first time in Mississippi from Atlanta like they were looking at the trees like they didn't know what the hell was happening like that only existed on TV no but think I mean think about what he did with Miley like okay like basically killed Hannah Montana and birth Miley Cyrus and like that like 23 I remember Mike calling me and being like playing me that record because he had done it with the Toronto Rock City and he was putting people on it and I go who you gonna put on and he said Miley I go who he said Miley Cyrus I said okay no for real and he goes no no she's I was like you're out of your mind man I mean I love you to death but and I remember leaving and I come back they recorded that in the base and what's the studio basement the hotel basement oh yeah night bird at the bottom of the market yeah and I walk in and that versus late and she's stand and she's going crazy and he's going and I was like I walked in I was like alright I was like I mean I officially know nothing and I was like I would have lost every dollar I had like that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard but okay sure like I was like I mean I love Miley Cyrus I was like I liked her as a person I was like but I was like this is and we had already it all came from we can't stop like they wanted to cut we can't stop and I was like okay I like that direction but like she's gonna rap rap like you're gonna rap like it's gonna be her juicy J and whisk a leaf like they're gonna rap them like you're out of your mind and like the records what six times flat and it was like a smash the videos a billion plays like I mean it was like one of those moments and like I was like alright I'm not gonna doubt like I mean he got like future singing on turn on the lights like all those kind of things that he like brings out of people that like and he has a vision he wants to help people like grow as an artist he doesn't just want placements just to make placements I mean don't get me wrong he can make humble and fucking formation and like have to smash him on smash across the board like his run was like and at the time he had like ten records on the radio at the same time or what he had like that Mike like you saw it on verses like people forgot and then he went on verses and it was like I mean enough people like it was like yeah if you looked in the comments there was enough people before it going like I don't know Mike what like and then you watch it like he opened with humble was like I'm playing this for like I'm like okay cool because then we're gonna go here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here 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here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here here part of something. Right? Now, how it played out, maybe it could have been handled differently. Well, but if it was handled differently, maybe he's not even a part of it. Oh, never. Right? Never. I'm saying so, like, if you're talking about from an, from an act of I'm French Montana. Yeah. And I want this song. Yeah. That was the only option. So, life changer. Like, but I was the only, like, I mean, like, there are people like, oh, maybe he could have got it. No. Like, and like, and hindsight, anything is possible. But no, we want, you got to think race rumored has the Maddick and challenge black Beatles song seven weeks in a row in the hot 100 goes right into swang, which is the next single, which is five times platinum. Either we would have, we had unforgettable. Either we would have a figured out how to put Jimmy on it and stripped it on deluxe it or be that would have been Sway Lee's first single. Now, calling the spade a spade. I'm not, I'll be the first one to tell you. I'm not a French Montana fan. So I was not happy about any of like, I was like, I don't think he brings anything to the record. I don't like, I was like, this is crazy. The only reason that record cleared is because of people that were involved on that side. I was then working at Columbia. So I was in the Sony building. So they had a little more access to me to try to get me to do it. Yeah. Tubby was working with both companies. So Sean was on me like, yo, bro, come on, you're sitting at the office next to me would butter me up talking about baseball bets or something and then throw in that he needs me to clear the French Montana record. But like, it was him and it was Jenny Drake and it was Zoe and all the people at Sony that were on me every day. And once the record was out and it had momentum, and it was like, we were like trying like, take it that we'll make it this, but it was like, okay, like we don't have like, we know we would have used it. We know it would have been a hit and we're fucking pissed. But at the same time, we don't know exactly where it would have gone. We don't know exactly when we would have put it out. We don't know how it will be now if we like take it down way to year and then try to put it back out. Like we don't like that other version will always still semi exist. Like, so like, do we try to do the best business deal possible and deal with it? Or do we just say, which is what I wanted to do, honestly, was just say, no, fuck it, we're just not doing it. Because like, I don't just don't believe in getting down like that. Now, do I even know that I mean, shit, the French version may be because of how hard they went maybe bigger than Sway's version would have been, even though, like, I don't really think that French added that much to the record really. But like, he pushed it and he really like went crazy with it. Like so, the label went crazy. And they bet because they paid everybody involved a whole bunch of money to be allowed to use it. Everybody's now everybody. So now it's like, all right, well, this is what we're going to do. And I still don't think we did. We did a good deal on it, but we didn't do as good of it. Like, like, like, I think if we did the deal now, we probably like would have held on to the record and let them use it in some way. Like as we're like learning how to like build out our business. But but at the end of the day, absolutely, if you're part of French Montana, like, I don't really do business like that. But if I put my French Montana hat on and my whole life was based on breaking French Montana, that's probably the only thing he could have done. Which was steal the record, which wasn't even like, I mean, he shouldn't have a, the fact that another artist gave him the record to record on in the studio is crazy. Like, it didn't come from Sway. Sway didn't give it to him. So like, and then once he had it, like, he like, he just, I like, I can't say I don't blame him because I've been a part of things like Polo. I've seen people leak records. So I know, and I've seen it work incredibly well. So I understand. It's funny because I looked at the situation and I put myself in that, in that position, right? If I was thinking like an artist and I had a shot to do that. Oh, yeah, I was going to say, you like, I had it. No, no, I literally had a shot to do that. And I was only thinking of helping their record. Right. You're a different person. But yes, if I'm wearing an artist hat and I look at it and I'm thinking of what it could have done for my career and their publishing and their ownership in the record, I think a record that is, I think is probably double platinum. Now, I think I would have had a diamond record because that record is diamond in the streets. Right. The up R&B remix is absolutely diamond. It's a smash in the street. It's a smash. And there was a moment where I had a conversation with label people who said to me, you need to just buy this record. And I'm like, no, that's their record. That's their thing. I get it, but I want to help them. And for me, I just look at it like I'm just a hard, how I do business. But like I said, on the flip side, if I'm an artist and all I'm thinking about is as an artist and I'm in French Montana's position, I'm like, shit, he actually made the greatest move he could have made. It's a slightly different situation because he was also capitalizing off of Swaley being having a number one record in the world also. That was like their one shot. Everything lined up. I'm saying, but like the record you're talking about, that was their one shot. So you would have been taking their like there as opposed to them already being at the top taking one of their you trying to you could use the thing. Oh, you didn't even put it on your album. Like that was the argument. It was like, you guys just put out an album. You didn't put unforgettable on it. So you're not putting out like your album was out like two months. So you don't have an album coming anytime soon. So where is it coming? So that was the that was Sal and XO and those guys calling me like, let's be real, it's not on the album. Right. So like they had like some like as opposed to, which again, you still could have, but it was more like that was that guy's shot that he was focused on a million percent that you've been taking as opposed to something on the like multiple people were trying to take that record. Of course they were trying to take up. Of course. You know what I'm saying? And with me coming in, I helped calm that of like, Hey, now we're gonna listen. Rant, Matilda, we're gonna go do this deal for y'all. So you're showing place. Yeah. I remember. I start managing. I remember. And I'm like, no, no, no, we're going to utilize the R&B remix to push it up some more. But this you guys doing this deal will now have it where you got the power to fight all of these. No, I remember thinking it was your record. I remember thinking it should be your record or whatever. I remember the same concept, but I remember, but I also remember you saying, Oh, I'm out of the idea. I was like, okay, it's your business. Whatever you're doing, you had a idea. Whatever you were doing, it was a part of an idea. It was funny though, because it made me think of, you know, when the whole conversation happened with Unforgettable, it made me think of like, that situation and if I would have done business that way. And I'm just like, still, when I look at, I'm like, no, they were just parts of it. We're just so crazy. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, like getting the phone call about the, I mean, I say it on my own show, but like the phone call about the publishing when he said he literally, they literally said that he wanted more publishing on the song. I'm like, and I literally said, I know the answers. No, but why don't you add more parts and then at least I could play it for people. And if you're on more of the song, and their response was, well, we don't think he sounds more good on more of the song. So we don't want to put, we don't want to put them on more of the song, but we, because we stole your song, and we like your song better, but we want more writing on the song that you wrote that we took. I don't know if y'all spoke of this or not, but I want to know, did y'all still have a part of the master or no? We know we have a really strong royalty on the record, but it's not, put out on the master. Not our master, no. Wow. Right. Which would be, you know, but which we learned. Yeah. Because we do on sunflower, which both put out. And that song's pretty big too. But I mean, like it was about like just not really. No, I'm just saying, but as part of the business, it was like, I think we did a very strong deal. We did very well, and we still do quite well off that song. But it was also like, it was LA Reed was involved, he was cutting monster checks to everybody. Like it was like very like, it was very fluid. It was very fluid. Like the record was already out. So it wasn't like a thought out, like Jimmy was already out. Like if Jimmy was around, never like, you know what I mean? Like, so it was like kind of like, like Jimmy wasn't, Jimmy was at Apple. So like he wasn't like, So let's talk about that too. What was it like for you when you realized that Jimmy was leaving in a scope or selling in a scope or pretty much because I'm sure, and you can tell me if I'm wrong or not, you always looked at it in a scope is like your family's company. Family business. Family business. What were your thoughts as that's happening? I mean, it was such a unique thing because of how the beats thing happened. Like, like he like, I remember him just talking one day, just like being like, we're on one of his rants, we're just sitting in the backyard and he's, Oh, you know, we got it. And he's like complaining about the music industry is like, it doesn't matter. You could have the biggest hit in the world, but what are you going to do tomorrow? You have to do something new every day as opposed to like the guy who made ketchup made it one time. And they've been selling it for his and every, you know, once every 10 years, they make it green on Christmas or something. Yeah. And like, like, but like, otherwise, it's like, it's like, that's a business. I need a hardware. I need a, like I want that kind of like something that like is tangible, like as a product. And they ended up working on beats and that became that overwhelmed all of us. Like I remember we'd be sitting and I'd be trying to finish records and he put a new pair of headphones that to try to get me to pay attention. He paint the, he had like New York Giants version. I have like the original version of the beats headphone with giant logos on the side of it. I still have it somewhere. I have a Mets version. You know what I mean? Like it was like, how do I get you to pay attention? I'm going to paint something you like on it. Maybe you'll care. But like, and I'd be like, man, we got to get turned this record in tomorrow. You're playing, putting headphones on my head. But like, he was so dedicated and the way they built that out, I remember being tortured at so many different video shoots. Like you better not come back unless the, uh, you know, the soldier boy video has beats in it. You've been quick interjection and we'll get back to it. I'm sitting in your office and Jimmy calls you. Or maybe you guys were already from one or the other. And I think he was having, he think he was going into surgery for something. Okay. I don't know what it was. Okay. And when you guys hang up, we're joking about your conversation. You're like, Jimmy said, if I die, make sure that the beats are in all the videos. And I'm like, oh, shit. Do you remember what I'm saying? I mean, he said that enough to me. Because I would say, can we talk about something else? Yeah. And he would say basically a version of that all time. I don't know what. No doubt. But it was like something like that was like the end of every conversation was like, did you get the picture? Did you do this? And I was like, this is crazy. Like I'm trying to get like a record done. I'm trying to get this. Like we have a day to turn it in. So that's the shift. And the shift that way. And then when that started happening, I, because I always felt like, you know, my life was incredible. I was like, and I had this blessed life. And like it was like, you know, there were some issues with being as nephew, you know, the things I had to deal with and the things I had to like, I wasn't able to be as forward as I was because I think Jimmy didn't want to feel like I was like be getting played favorite too. I was never like, I never did any press. I never did anything, my whole career. Like until I started my own podcast six months ago, I don't think I'd ever shout out the podcast. I was sitting there with a podcast called the podcast is called the third verse. It's fun. It's me, my guy, Stack Quo, who is the craziest person in the whole world. I love you. An incredible hip hop journalist, Justin Hunt, who is the brains of the operation and deals with us two idiots. But like, yeah, no, it's that's a blast. But I mean, until I did that, I had never spoken. Yeah. Like I like, I like, if you think about the amount of records I was a part of the way all these A&Rs and all these people take credit for things just because their name is on them, like if that's how it works, then I don't know how many records I sold a billion. I have like 100 million people because my name's on every M&M record, every 50 record, every black eyed, these record, like if you like, if that's how it works, it's not works. I mean, okay, but I'm a music genius. I don't know, but I'm saying like, you know, you know who you are, you're McDonald's. Yeah. So it's like, but, but I never like said it. So but outside of that, like my life was incredible based on the opportunity I was given. And I get to like do all this amazing stuff for all the people I love, I'm able to give everybody an opportunity. Like if you think of all the like basically every assistant I ever had is now a big shot somewhere. Like, and that's I take as much pride in that as I did. Like either either either assistant or intern at the neighboring, but in our world, I mean, between like, time to people. Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. Eric is doing great. Eric O'Coulter. I mean, Chelsea's doing great. Like, Tungy's, Tungy, like Manny is Manny, Archie is Archie. Like, these guys are all like, you got major players. They're all, I mean, they've all built insane businesses themselves. I could work for any one of those people at this point. Like, so that's insane. And like, but so now I have this, but then when Jimmy, I could see him starting to transition out, like, I kind of was like, I was happy for him at the end of the day, because I like, I was never like married to being a record executive, like at a record label, like I don't mind doing it. And I like doing it because of the opportunities it gives my clients. But I never like, I never loved it for that. Like, I like, I don't like, I'm fine, I do it. If an amazing opportunity came up again, I might just do it again. But like as far as like, there wasn't like, I was like, man, I can't believe he's like, leaving. Like, I mean, like I felt like it was time for him. He was ready. And it was such an incredible opportunity, an incredible ride. What he did build that into a multi-billion dollar business. And I technically left first. So I, once I knew that was happening, I kind of transitioned myself out of it. I stayed on as a consultant, started building my own shit, and like really started building the stuff with Mike. And so it was like, Do you own some of Beats? No. So wait, you weren't even in the first round? Do I own Beats? No, I'm not. It would be amazing. But I'm saying, did you, did you like, I'd have two of these or three of your. Hilarious. I'm sure. No, but I'm sure you wouldn't. But I'm saying like, you weren't in like the first round of investment or nothing. I was not in the first round of investment. So LeBron owns more Beats than you do. Yeah. What the fuck, DJ? We could have got out the hood. Yeah, I know. It's not crazy. I mean, you're not in the hood, but whatever. No. Well, me kind of. No, you fucking not, bro. Well, kind of. I mean, damn, talk, you didn't get no, you didn't get no. I got headphones. Some stock. Now fuck all of it. We talking about stock now. I got some stock. I got some Apple stock. Like, I mean, like, I'm like, I mean, I'm smart enough to make sure I had that. But I mean, like, as far as like. Because you did put it in all the videos. I did put it in a lot of videos. Jim, I know you said that. I know you put it in a lot of videos. If you get, if that's how you get paid, then yes, I definitely got the short end of the stick. If it's by putting it in videos, yeah, I should be. No, it's funny. I remember I'm at, I don't know if I'm at the office or we were at Larry's house for something. No, we were at Larry's house for something. That's what I was gonna guess. And Jimmy goes, Jay, right? He's just random. He's back there. He's like, Jay, is it your friend? One of those baseball guys? I'm like, I'm like, yeah, he's like, this is what Daniel Rihanna, right? I'm like, he is. Shit, he wear beets. Not as simple as it was. And I'm like, he should. I'm gonna call him. I'm gonna call his agent, man. And next thing I know, Matt Kemp is in the middle of Times Square with Beets Hand Falls on on the Big Ass building. It was so interesting how Jimmy operated. It was so interesting how he operated. It was literally hand to hand. It was literally like, yeah. He was walking around handing it. He was literally walking around putting it on people's heads and taking pictures. That was the conversation. It was crazy. Your friend is the baseball guy. Like, you say, yeah. I mean, I remember just showing up at the house one day and I'm eating dinner with his kids and we're just talking. He shows up and he had like Polaroids and it was like, not Polaroids, but like actual photos. And it was like Dwight Howard and then like this person and that. What did you do? Just like walk around and just put it like, what? Listen, the funniest experience and the worst Superbowl experience for me was watching a Superbowl at his house. And all he cared about was the halftime show so that they could talk about, or I think it was, I don't know if it was the launch of Apple Music or it was something. But like, I'm like, Jimmy, what's a football game going on? Oh yeah. He was, no, the football game was the atmosphere for the Beets commercial. For the Beets commercial. Which was the one with the black eyed bees? Yes. Like he really worked it into the stage? Oh, I mean, will I am? Jimmy gave two shits about the football game. Oh, of course. I'm trying to watch the football game. He's like, yeah, yeah, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, these 22 guys are in the way of what we're trying to do here. Yeah, no, 100%. But it was, but not even a halftime show. The halftime commercial. Yeah. No, it was like the whole, like he, and I want to say he was rewinding the commercial as the game had started back up. I'm like, hey, Larry, I'm out of here. Jimmy just wants to watch commercials. But he was so, but right. That was me. I would only want to watch commercials too. Exactly. But he was so, for lack of a better term, he was so hell bent on those headphones. Once he smelt it, it was like, it was like, it was, it was relentless. And then like, you know, Dre, like he like, it was, I mean, shit. It's the blueprint. Another funny moment. Okay. As we're at breakfast with your dad. Okay. And you, and this, I think this was probably my first time meeting your dad. And you go, hey, dad, guess who Jay's friend is? I don't know if you remember this shit. M, E, my breakfast. And you go, that's Tyrese's friend. And your dad stops and he goes, you talking about the guy who almost fucked up our billion dollars? And I'm like, oh, shit. I was like, who's right after that? You're about to kill me. I was right after all that shit happened. After the Dray. Tyrese announcing the deal and nobody knows it. I'm like, oh, shit. That shit was insane. Man, Pops about to give me knocked off, man, because I know Tyrese. That was funny. I remember that. I do remember that because that was like right after it all calmed down. Like it was like right after the deal got done. Obviously the new number, whatever, but it got done. It was like, okay, everybody could breathe. But that day, oh my God. I remember seeing it and being like, like I bust Jimmy's balls over. Like we used to get at each other about anything. I didn't that day. Like there was no, I couldn't even imagine. Because I know him so well, and I know I've been around him in some crazy moments. Like I can't even imagine what he, what like that went through his mind at that moment. But all things worked out. No, it worked out. Everything is okay. But like, yeah, that was crazy. Tyrese is still doing versus. Tyrese is still Tyrese. And they let him in the Apple building. Yeah, they let him in the Apple building. They let him in the Apple building. To do versus, I think he'd been Dray. I mean, Apple. I mean, she worked out for the Viet. Yeah, so they probably carried him into the building. No, but oh my God. We have your $300 million carers. I was like, that's the wrong side of that. So your management. Yes. Keisha Cole. Yeah. You went full R&B. Yeah. You went full R&B after all your years at labels, all the hip hop, all the shit. You're like, okay, I'm gonna manage Keisha Cole. Keisha Cole has been one of my dearest friends for 20 years. Yeah. So probably about as long as I know you in that same ballpark. Yeah. So I got to watch her grow. She was originally signed to Damon Elliott and my girlfriend at the time was Damon's assistant. So she was always like getting driven around and whatever. So I met her very early on and then obviously watching her. Yeah, Keisha didn't have a license. Yeah, I mean, so many people I work with don't have drive. I don't understand. But yeah. Yeah. But yeah. I wonder what Keisha did about her first car. I believe it. And she didn't have a license and she was mad at Ron Fair because they wouldn't let her buy the car. That he had given her more, I give whatever the advance, whatever it is to get the car and told her she was going to get it. And she's like, Ron, they won't give me the car. And I'm like, Keisha, you don't have a license. And I don't think they're going to sell it to you. Because like a whole process involved. You got to have a driver's license. Like laws and stuff. Yeah, you got to have a driver's license. Pissed. Yeah, sounds about right. But so, I mean, I've been around for all of it and I've watched all her growth, her ups or downs, everything that she's been through. And well, you weren't at the first video. I was not. You weren't there. And then you're still like arguably the greatest video vixen of all time. And you weren't there, bro. You're my brother. You should have been here. I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know until after the fact. I would have had you sign an autograph. It was tough, bro. It was tough. It was tough. I still talk about it. If you was there, I might have got paid. It's not a good pay for that video either. You're incredible. It's fine. It's fine. You're incredible. But yes. So, you know, you being in the video made her a star. And then after that, I don't think. No, but then I'm just saying after that, like, so now I'm, you know, I've been able to watch her whole career as a friend and be around. Obviously, I'm Ron Fair incredible. I bought with the part that I got to be like a fly on the wall for a lot of that. Just supportive. And just we were very close forever. And we just remained friends after I left Interscope, after she left Interscope or A&M, but part of Interscope. Yeah. And like, I believe she is one of the greats. I just truly believe that. And I believe she is greater than she has even given credit for. Considerably great. I agree with you. She's given credit for. Yeah. So I always told her that I was always on like, I believe you're like one of those ones, like you are every bit in that goat conversation. That's just how I feel about you. And I never changed that. And when she would always tell me, you should work with me, you should do this. But I always had like jobs and like managing producers and songwriters and things like that. Artistic and then artist. Is like, like, and especially somebody, I don't want to say I don't care about all artists, but somebody that I care that deeply about and that has been my friend for that long. And then I've been campaigning for her to be the biggest thing on earth to her for so long. I knew what that would take to do that. So when I left Def Jam, when I left finally three years ago, literally my first call was to her. And I was like, hey, I was like, because she had talked to me like a little while before, like, hey, I'm not sure what I'm doing. I'm figuring out stuff. I'm trying to figure out like where I am. And she came to visit me at Javier's every once in a while. She would come to eat and she, we were still friends, but like, and I was like, well, if that's really what you're talking about, I'm not big on taking or or poaching or doing any of that stuff. But if that's what you're going to do, like the timing would be now because I have and I see a path. There's like, like you are busy. You got to take the business more seriously to me. Like you should be doing so much bigger shows. The next album you make should be incredible. Ode to everything you've done and like a resurgence, like all these things that if I want, like if we do this, I don't want to jump in just to be like somebody who gets a piece of what you're already doing that you don't like anybody can do that. I'll just be your friend. I don't need to do that. If you want to really swing and you want to try to build this thing out the way I think we can build it out. Let's do it. And I know and you know, and like we we've started it's taken a couple of years, but we've really, I think built the live business to a place where she did her real first two headline arena tours, including a 20 year anniversary arena AEG great tour. And she, you know, she had a great run on and like I'm proud of that. I'm proud of how she's built and how hard she's worked and how she's built her and really reasserted herself in the conversation. And now it's the fun part to me. Now it's when we go, I think make that album that makes everybody, you know, remember. And that's where I think and that's where we're at now. We're about right at that. And you're full in R&B world now, bro. And that's, you know, most people gonna watch this and be like, why, you know, we get that shit. He don't do R&B. Well, yes, he does do R&B and he's been a part of R&B shit and great things. But this is also a show of business. And, but the fact also that you were working with, you know, a dear friend of mine who I love, and you are a dear friend of mine and who is a legend in the R&B space, right? And I love what you're doing business wise, what you guys are doing together, because I've been watching, I've been watching the resurgence. I've been watching the moves of, like you said, the touring business and figuring out how to put her in a space that she deserves to be in. And that's not easy. And most people just think like, oh, it's such and such. So no, there are things that have to happen. There are conversations that have to happen. And there are moves that need to be made to put you in that space. And man, I'm glad you're all working together. Me too. Like I can't wait to hear the album. No, I mean, it's like trying to think of the right words. But I'm very excited for what the next year, like it's a challenge and it's going to be a challenge. But it's, it's. So you're working on it. It's your emotion. We're in the, we're in the stage of really like locking in on what it's going to be. But it's like, we're there. And we're to the point where now we've built the business, we've built the life business up, right? We've built it up to a point that we could do this and not like, and that won't slow the momentum of having done the tours and not being like, well, we kind of, we kind of like planted the seeds, but then we stepped away. And then so now it's like, okay, now it's like time to make that. So the other question that my audience wants to know. Yep. When the fuck is she coming on the R&B Money podcast? You're the manager. Manager situation. Managing situation. You knew where I was going. It all comes back to Polo to Don. Everything comes back to Polo to Don. It all comes back to Polo to Don. We got him. I mean, that conversation would be too epic. We have to make it happen. The two of you guys together is as fun as it like, as fun as the, so I know how the two of us talking are and the two of Kisha and I talking like, we, like, we got a, we got to figure it out. So she coming on this podcast. We got to figure it out. Do you guys have a, you guys have a Southeast edition? You want me to go where she's at? We got to figure it out. I'm saying I'll go where she's at. That's what I'm saying. All right. We got to figure it out. Now, don't give me this figure this shit out. I'm saying, is she coming on the podcast? You want me to say yes? Okay. Yes. She's coming on the podcast. Yeah. We're going to figure it out. We're going to figure it out. You my real friend in real life. I'm not about to do this shit with you. Tell her about what do you want. But yeah, say yes. Shit. I would love it. Tisha Cole is coming on the podcast. You heard DJ Marmilly. That's the manager. He's going to manage the situation and we're going to make it happen. So DJ, what's next for you? I mean, especially in this R&B space. Well, I think there's a very unique thing actually. Mike just dropped his album. Like we just dropped reset. It's a long time between albums. And I think it's really, and I think it's a really special project. He really touched on a bunch of certain things, a couple of songs that are really impressive. One of them is, it's a song A.A.A. and it's what Sidge for Ram is a spectacular Carnatic singer from, well, from the Bay and India back and forth. Okay. But he's, I mean, he's a legend. And they have started working together. And but if you listen to that record, you could hear the beginnings of it. But some of the music I've heard with the two of them, I think is the most groundbreaking shit I've heard in a long time. And it's really special. And like Mike is a genius. And like when he sets his mind to something, especially as part of breaking somebody and entering somebody into, and this is on a level that I think is going to be very, very special. And we'll see how it all turns out. But I've heard a couple of the other records and like, and like it's, it's magic. And like, so to hear that, like, you know, I've been blessed to work on a lot of incredible things. So for me to feel that way, I feel like it's something like that excites me. And it's somebody I met a couple of years ago and then I was working with. And then I was like my dream for him to meet Mike. And then they did. And then obviously it just like, it saw come together. It felt it's like better than I hoped. So like it's, and then like you could hear it off this song. It's really catching like, let's check out AA on Mike's album reset. But like the it's, it's magic. And I'm excited for everybody to hear it. Yeah. What's the artist's name again? Sid Shoram. Sid Shoram. Sid Shoram. S-R-I-R-A-M. Sid Shoram. And he's from, he's from, up like Fremont, up by there and India. So back and forth, back and forth. And it was like, like, you know, it's Fremont India? Fremont India. Yes. Yes. Fremont India is exactly where he's from. No, but like, Sid, Sid, you from the Bay, dog. Yeah, but no, he's from the Bay. Like, I mean, like it's, it's, yeah. Yeah. What we got over here, man? Let's get talented. Yeah. You're top five. Come on, we want to know it. Top five. Wait, wait. I love this song. You're top five. Are we being singers? Are in these songs? We've got to know before you go, here on this show. Come on. Everybody want to know. Look, they want to know. You're top five. Yes. Right now. Top five. Come on, Tanya. You're top five. That's incredible. Come on, we want to know your top five, dog. That's incredible. I feel like Tanya's here. He would have been singing it louder. He would have been singing it louder. He would have been doing his, I know, I know what I feel. Yeah. Yeah. No matter how loud Ruben turns it up. I feel. Hard times are down. I feel that's my guy, by the way. I appreciate, I mean, I've let, he, I have a, just real quick for top five, I have a great, literally, I was by my house and he literally, he must have been walking out of me, and walked right in front of my car. And I like hit the jam the brakes. And I was like, bro. And he goes, hey, how you doing? And I was like, like, He just randomly. Like you're going to look up? Or like, what you do? Like, yeah. It was right. And I was like, it was like, incredibly. It's like something like, I don't remember if it was like, a dentist or something. I forgot what he said, because I was terrified that like, I was like, I was like, I almost ran over R&B royalty. I was like, insane. They don't run up. But like, but man, love tank. And like, yeah, but that song is amazing. That's definitely, can I put that in my top five? If you want. Does anybody ever put that song in the top five? They haven't. I don't think so. You can if you want to. I mean, that could be five A. It's a jam. It's a jam. It's a jam. That could be five A. So, okay. So we got it. We doing songs first or long? We're going to do top five R&B singers first. I'm going to go, I'm going to go more things like, because I feel like just setting for my list, I'm going to go more people like that affected me and like my lifetime, as opposed to like, obviously the Stevie's and the Michaels and all those guys who are incredible. I'm going to do the things that like came in my life. Like what my life and what I listened to. So first off, which is what got me into the genre, it all would be Jodicy, who was like the first, like I remember being a kid and like, you're taking the whole group. Yes. Jodicy. Jodicy is one. Jodicy is like that, like that moment. Like I'm thinking of like projects, albums, like that's what it was. Got you. Two, I mean, for everything, the goat, as far as I'm concerned, R. Kelly, there's no like, as far as songs, as far as like what he is, what, what those records were, and just like, what the fuck, like over and over and 100%ers and everything. Yeah. R. Kelly is. Absolutely. King of R&B. The King of R&B. Third, Usher, who has maintained for such an incredible long time and is like recreated himself and what he's done just across decades is remarkable. And then the greatest reclamation story of all time, Chris Brown, who I think is the like shit. It's hard to like just what he's done, dealt with. Come back from and just the person, the performer, the artist he is, is. Second and none. Second to absolutely none. Yeah. And then fifth is no way I'm doing a list without Keisha Call. So Keisha Call is five. There we go. And that's my favorite R&B female singer of all time. Yeah. There are other incredible ones, obviously, but if you talk about my top five artists, that's what it is. Yes, sir. Very soon. I love that top five. All right. Now we're going to go top five R&B songs. Okay. Again, five songs that very much influence my life in different places. Okay. The first one is The Great Pretender by the Platters. Legitimately. Yes. My father, I remember driving to baseball games and my father is a Platters fanatic. So he would play that greatest hits album. And it was Great Pretender, Twilight Time, Only You, trying to remember like off the top of my head, but like. You hear that every day. And the Great Pretender to this day is like, it reminds me of such an incredible time. Yeah. That's what music is supposed to do. That like it. It like, it just, to me, that's like, when I think of it, I'm like, like it makes me so happy. And I remember it like for the rest of my life. And it brings me back to being in that car and driving to Shea Stadium or whatever. And like those records playing in the car. Second is probably my favorite song, Interscope Records has ever put out. Okay. Which is No Diggity by Blackstreet. A fucking jam. So Blackstreet, I remember they made that record like the very first thing I did the very first day I ever was visited Jimmy the first summer that we did is I picked up Teddy and Chauncey from the airport. And brought him to and brought him to. And brought him to your life. It's crazy. And I brought him to Gary Shandling's house to watch a movie with Warren Beatty. So like that was the first hour I was in Los Angeles. So, but that song is one of my. Legit. Favorite songs ever and like Dre coming in. Remember the girl Queen Pan on the end, the Teddy. But like that song was just, I can remember the video. Everything about it just made me happy. It's crazy you mentioned Warren Beatty. I meet Warren Beatty randomly when I go to meet Jimmy my first time when I'm 18 years old. I go to me and Damon Thomas go to Jimmy's house. Because at the time everybody was trying to sign me as an artist when I first got to LA. And we got invited to like one of his parties. I think he was at the Malibu house still. I think it was Malibu maybe. I don't, I'm not sure if I'm 18 this is. He moved to 99. Yep. This is 98. 97, 98 or something. He was working on Boreworth. Yeah. That's what it was. Well, that's what it was. So that's what the movie was. So you know I ain't fucking lying. No, 100%. And we're walking in and Warren Beatty has the biggest head I think I've ever seen on a human. I don't know why and I haven't seen him since. I haven't seen him since but maybe I'm just a kid and I'm still I'm 18 but I'm like, yo his head is fucking big. Is this what movie stars look like? This is what I'm thinking. In Hollywood. I'm like, in Hollywood they got big ass heads. You know what I'm saying? Like me and Tyrese the same height but he looks taller than me because his head is bigger than mine. I'm like, you gotta have a big head to be a Hollywood superstar. But Warren Beatty has the biggest head I've ever seen in my life on a human and I'm like, yo that's fucking Beatty. And he's just walking out like, oh, hey nice to meet you. I'm like, okay this shit is different. No, yeah. It was a very, yeah. Yeah. So that's my, I met Warren Beatty story when I was a fucking kid. Black Street was always a big Black Street fan. I love Teddy. And that, yeah. That's all that one. Okay, so no diggity. Third, I mean another probably maybe my favorite song is R. Kelly Remix to Ignition which is like, and it was a song that I, I pressed out the kitchen. Like that I picture like was Jimmy's favorite song for so long and it would be like playing somewhere and it would be like, like it was like the remix to Ignition would come on at the party and it would be like, what the hell? Like it was like, so remix to Ignition brings back incredible memories for me and I absolutely love, you know, love that record. Fourth, probably my favorite real, like not that no diggity isn't a real R&B song, but like R&B, R&B song, I should have cheated which was my favorite Keisha Cole record, which is like, when I heard that, I would like just the, and just the, and I was like, that's when I knew, like that's when I knew Keisha. What, like that's when I was like, oh, okay, she could be like that one. Duran and Q from 112. Yeah. Like it is like Keisha's incredible writer in her own writing. That song like is, I was like, I should have cheated still my favorite, like I fight for it to be in every set. Every time we do anything, I'm like, it has to be. And then we already talked about it. So I kind of already like already discussed why this song is so important to me. But my fifth song, which is the only time like in my, like I, we cracked the code and released a record that was so infectious is turning me on, turning me on, Kerry Hills and a little Wayne. And that was so impactful to my life because we figured it out and we cracked, we broke through broken artists. And then that went into knock you down, went into all of that. But like that song was, and then like honorable mention to promise, because that was such a special moment with us with polo. When you slowed it down, when everybody wanted to speed it up and him and Jasper made that record, that was a really cool moment and all that stuff. But yeah. Those are my top fives. And top five. Oh, and tanks top five. Well, yeah, top seven really. Because tanks top five is, tanks top five really, really deserves to be like, it doesn't get enough credit. I don't get enough. No, listen, he just like on verses, he made up the turtleneck song. Like he made up time. We talked about segments and we needed segments. He made up that song on the spot. He's like, I got one. Like what the fuck? He's the best. He's the best, but I believe he made that up on the spot. For sure. And each version is different. It sounds like a song I would make up. Like where does it say I could make up a word and make something. Every song, every version of it though is different. Yeah, no, he's, I mean. He is the remix to Ignition for the top five. I mean, Tank is funny as fuck. So he's like, he's like, he's, he's, he's one on one as well. All right. So now let's get into your Voltron. The Voltron thing is interesting. Where you built this super R&B artist from top to bottom. The vocals, the stage performance, the styling, and the passion behind the artists. Or the passion of the artists. So first, if you're building your perfect R&B singer, Megatron, Voltron, who's the vocals? Who's singing the songs? I feel like it's impossible for it. Like, I mean, it's not to be Whitney Houston. As much as like I want, I want to say like, it's just not for my... Whitney Houston is Whitney Houston, bro. Yeah, I know. Like, so it's kind of hard not for it not to be Whitney Houston. Whitney Houston is your singer. I guess Whitney Houston is my singer. Who's stage performance? Like who is going to kill the show as a performer? Making you, making you choose between Chris and Hush and unfair. But I guess... Oh, you want to do the, you want to do the slash? No, I mean, like, I mean, like literally like... Do Chris Raymond, Usher Brown? I mean, that's, I mean, that's what it is. I mean, Jesus, like, two absolutely incredible, but... Are you choosing one over the other? I mean, who are you... No, I hear you. I'm like... You're doing this... I should have done it beforehand, but I didn't. So I'm really thinking on the fly. If you can't decide, I'm just going to do Usher Brown. Yeah, Usher Brown, slash it for me. All right, Usher Brown. As much as I like competitive and being that, Usher Brown. Who going to put the fly shit on now? Aliyah. Aliyah was fly. Aliyah was fly. Like, I mean, there's some great ones. Like, there's some absolutely great ones. No, Aliyah was fly. Tiana's great. Maya's great. I'm great, but that's really... Yeah. Aliyah was fly. Who got the passion? Who makes you feel it? Just, you just see them and you just like, ah, they just... They living this shit. Keisha J. Blige. I mean, but it's... Ha! But it's Keisha. I mean, I love Mary, but... Keisha J. Blige is fucking great. I mean, but like, because I mean, and I mean, and honor to Chris, because like what he's been through for sure, like just that passion, just to be here is insane, but like, you know, I'm riding with Keisha till the wheels fall off. So that's what I mean, like the... That's... Okay. And I'm gonna give you this one. Who's the record executive that gets to have this artist? Who's the executive? Who's the executive that you know is gonna make sure this artist sells a trillion records? L.A. Reed. Come on, record man. I saw how he got unforgettable from me. Like, you gotta like... You gotta like... Like... You respect it. Like... You gotta respect it. I'm gonna be wrong, Jimmy's a monster in so many ways, but we're on R&B and going here with those kind of things. L.A. Reed. L.A. Reed. I mean, I've seen it. I've seen the jump on the table, I've seen all of it. Oh yeah. Yeah. You gave it... To this day, L.A. not fucking around. No. He not fucking around. If he believe in something, he gonna fight. No, I love that. I love that. No, that was great, bro. I mean, it was... Yeah, no, that was great. That was great. So that's a great vote trying. I think so. It's a great executive to bring it all home. Yep, I think so. All right. I thought you were gonna ask me like producer, being you went... No, no, no, no, no. Executive was not prepared. I know you wasn't. I'm going like, oh wow. I'm telling you curve balls, bro. Because you're not a producer, you're an executive. So I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... No, no, no. You're very, very... No, no, you're an executive. So that's why you gotta tell us who your top... But that artist, who that is, and that's L.A. Reed. We got one more section, man. We got one more section. But what we got? What we got before we let you go? Ruben got something else for you real quick. Hey, yeah. Yeah, DJ. Here's the way. Come on. But what? Huh. Very important part of this show. Well, you tell us a story. Funny are fucked up, are funny and fucked up. The only rule to the game, DJ can't tell us no name. I don't think I've ever told the story without saying a name. So this is gonna be fun. Yeah. I got two. Okay. You want them. Come on. Come on. What you got? So very first year I'm in, I come to visit. I go to lunch with one of my boys, who's meeting another guy who works in the industry. And they start talking, and I'm just there. I'm just a fly on the wall. I wasn't really... Whatever, I'm just there. And they start talking, and they are talking about how to make it in the industry and trying to come up as young A&Rs and all this stuff. And all of a sudden, they start talking about how... Well, I guess I can't say any names. Someone's nephew now works at In the Scope Records, and he's gonna try to take somebody's job and... Man, that's why we all gotta stick together. Now, mindless say, I'm sitting at the table with the table. You're part of the stick together. No, man. So I'm jumping into this conversation being like, yeah, man, that shit is crazy. Like, you gotta make sure this doesn't happen, and you gotta make sure people like nepotism is crazy. It's like, I can't believe they let that happen, because he didn't earn it. Now, I'm just diving into this, because I think it's hysterical. Like, at this point, I have no interest in working in the music industry. I'm literally just visiting. And I'm like, this is the funniest shit in the whole universe. So I literally took place in this absolutely... This full shit-talking meal about... About you. About, well, I don't know who it was. I can't say any names. So it was somebody's nephew, and it was literally absolutely incredible. Oh, that is crazy. But like, so that is like... And still to this day, it's like absolutely hysterical. But like, yeah, that was legitimately amazing. And then... Well, you can say your name. Like Santa? Yeah, they were clearly talking about you. We know that. So my question though is that, did you ever... At any point, did you ever be like, y'all remember what y'all was talking about years later? Yeah, it's amazing. Amazing. Obviously they realized it. Well, I don't like that. Like, you know, it's kind of like, oh, I don't remember. But like, it was like, whatever. It is what it is. Amazing. Second, so for a long time have made, obviously, restaurants my home. Like where I like, ever since I stopped working at Interscope, I've kind of like moved around. I've been on the places, but I kind of like, I liked that energy. So the only way I could rebuild that was by moving into restaurants. And that's kind of how like, to make it like, kind of like my own world, as opposed to like, sitting in a satellite office, it kind of feels like a library. But I started doing that early on. And this is when I was still at Interscope. I had a client and the client was doing really well, but they were approaching the end of their deal with me. Okay. And I honestly don't even believe in deal. I'm very much a handshake person when it comes to management. So this was like a weird situation, but it just happened that way. But like, a conversation come up with another executive who reached out to me about possibly partnering about this artist, about this client. And I explained to them why it couldn't happen. And then not that I didn't like the idea, but I was already in a situation so it couldn't happen. We go back and forth and I'm like, listen, I'm a very straight shooter. I'm like, listen, like my situation, like, I don't know what this artist is thinking, but if they, I'm hoping we work together because we're doing really well. But if it doesn't work out, like I understand business is business. Like shit happens. Like if it's something like, I don't control people, like I'm a businessman. So I understand. I don't, I won't feel any type of way, whatever. Person says there's zero chance now that you've told me what it is that I would ever do that. Like the relationship isn't worth it. It's just not worth it. Like my guy and your guy's relationship is too big. This is too big. Everything is too big. There is no reason it is not. There's nothing about it that's worth it. And I go, okay, but I was like, you don't got to do all that, but all right, fine, whatever he goes, no, for sure, beat it to death. Okay, cool. Needless to say, a couple months later, contract runs out. The person, we don't continue. It goes and the person ends up working with the other person. I reach out like, hey, uh, what's up? No response. No response. No response. And literally the text that I'll never forget is, I got to feed my kids. And that was it. And it just kind of like, I was like, but I said it was fun. Like what, like why go through all that extra? But, and the reason I brought up the restaurant is that the, like, the meeting actually happened at Jerry's Deli in Westwood, where I made, where I started making people come to visit me at times because I was like, this is funny, making all these hot shots come to a deli and eat a turkey sandwich with me, instead of going sit at their cool guy fancy places. But like, which was also in Westwood, right by the, right by the, that Jerry's, but there were a lot of Jerry's. But yeah, so that was like, so the first one was really funny and kind of fucked up. The second one was just really fucked up and just shows like how, I mean, at the end of the day, it was what it was. So it was a deal that was like, nothing was taken. The deal was up and it was, it was just like the, the, the mindset. Like I have to lie, even though you're giving me the opportunity to not lie. Like I just have to say the opposite of what would make it easy for no reason. Now you know what though DJ, I got to feed my kids. Yeah. They want to go to Burger King. They want to go to, you know, like, like, ah, fuck. Yeah. This is the business that we're in. Yeah. So I, I didn't even got the business that we're in. It's business. It is. You know, and everybody handles their business the way they do. I just couldn't believe what that went that far out of their way. Yeah. To say this. To just say the exact opposite of what they're going to do. When it didn't matter. It wasn't like they were trying to take somebody who had years of, like it was like, okay. I mean, no matter what, I'm not a real contract guy. But when you sign a contract, the reason is because when it's up, you get to make another decision. That's basically the concept. Like, so there's no like, I'm like a very logical person. Obviously there's a motion involved in everything you work hard on things. But still it was like, and I was like, this is wild. But like, I was like, I was like, all right. I was like, that's cool. Amen. You've had an amazing career and you're having an amazing career, bro. I appreciate that. This has been cool. It's been a blast. Bro. I mean, watching you grow to what you guys have built this thing to is incredible. Thank you. Like knowing you a long time and watching you and seeing how good you are at it. I mean, honestly, you're, and to be fair, you're, if not, the person, one of the two or three people that convinced me to do it myself. So like, and like, but like what you guys have done is incredible and it's a blast. And I love watching it and I love getting a chance to be a part of it. No man, thank you. And before, before, before we get out of here, man, I want to say too, I had a blast at your wedding. The fact that you did the crank that soldier boy with soldier boy at your wedding and also had the yin yang twins. That was the fact that I was able to have. Incredible. The fact that I was able to get people to stay like, and everybody assumed, because I said, you have the greatest rap group of all time is closing the wedding. And like, obviously like Paul and everybody that I'm from Staten Island, they're like the Wu Tang clan is coming who is like my, but I love the yin. They're in a better party in the world. They turn shit up. So I mean, no, I mean, soldier boy was incredible. Will, what he did was amazing. Timbaland was, I mean, the fact that everybody showed up and really showed out for me, it was an absolute blast. I mean, my wife, like everything she put into that was insane, but it was, it was an incredible night and I appreciate you for being there, but it was. I'm sorry, man, I wasn't a mystery. It was a, it was a, it was a blast. You know how I feel about you and your wife, man? Like, yeah, my people's bro. It was a blast. No. So thank you for pulling up on me, bro. This is going to be great. We dressed alike. Except you don't have, you don't have, no, I don't. My daughter, he's a real girl there. Every time I got like 30 different pairs of these socks with different pictures of her and stuff. I wish we still had the fake work run so you could hoop in those, bro. DJ can shoot the ball just so y'all know this. He don't, he don't do much sweating and running, but if he catching, if that was a standstill Olympics, I'm a Michael Phelps type athlete. His catching shoot is deadly. Oh, if there's air condition and somebody brings me an iced tea, I could do one more thing. That's basically the whole thing. Hey listen, I'm Jay Valentine. This is the R&B buddy podcast and this is my brother, DJ Marmilly. I'll see you all next week. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.