Nightcap Hour 1: Cade Cunningham & Pistons SNEAK by SHORT-HANDED Thunder + Odds for NBA MVP have TIGHTENED + NBA sends DOCTORS to CHECK Lauri Markkanen

This is the biggest night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from South by Southwest, March 16th, we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. Shoot your shot on PrizePix and get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first $5. That's right. PrizePix now is giving you $50 in lineups when you sign up and play your first $5. prize picks makes every dunk every dime every board that much more exciting so don't miss a chance to get started on america's number one app for sports picks football season was fantastic but it's time to shift gears to basketball trade deadline was exciting you know i'm rocking with la and my guys lebron and luca more points more threes more rebounds more more more new feature alert prize picks now have early payouts if your lineup gets off to a hot start you may now have the option to cash out those winnings before the game even finishes. PrizePix is simple to play. Just download the PrizePix app today. Use code SHANNON to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code SHANNON to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. PrizePix, it's good to be right. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. Y'all know who I am. I'm your favorite hunk, and there is my partner and co-host, Liberty City's own Bengals Ring of Fame honoree, a former Pro Bowler and an All-Pro. That is Chad Ochocinco Johnson. And the third member of the Big Three joins us two nights a week, Monday and Wednesday, University of Arkansas alum, Little Rock, Arkansas native, a seven-time NBA All-Star, and he was recently nominated for the Basketball Hall of Fame. Here he is, ISO Joe Johnson. Joe, what do you do? Man, what's happening? What's happening, fellas? We good. What's happening? Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button. And do us a favor. Go subscribe to the Nightcap Podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts from. We would personally like to thank each and every one of you, as always for your eyes ears and your word of mouth thank you for making nightcap what it's become and because of you we shall continue to grow so again thank you for your support and your continued support those looking to purchase a bottle of shade by laportier head over to laportiercognac.com if it's unavailable in a state or city near you it is a premium vslp cognac the best tasting smoothest vslp cognac on the market remember it's two sizes the og which is the 750 and we now we have the junior which is the 375 the same great quality the same great taste the same smoothness but i implore you to guess what try it and compare it against other brands and you'll see our cognac is the best please drink responsibly and stay safe guys the pistons beat the shorthanded thunder by the score of 124 116 jaylen durin had 29 points 15 rebounds Cade Cunningham, 29 points, 13 assists. The Thunder started the game without five of their six starters. Shea Gilgis nursing an abdomen injury. Isaiah Hartenstein with a calf. Chet with a back. A.J. Mitchell with an abdomen. And Jalen Williams with a hamstring. The only one of the six starters was Isaiah Joe, and he left at halftime because of a bruised hip. The Thunder's a good team because when you can start a game without five of your six starters, Joe, and that's the best team in the Eastern Conference, and you take them all the way down to the wire, that lets you know they are a very good team, and it doesn't matter who's on the floor, they're going to compete. Joe, what did you like about what you saw? Because it seemed like they bounced back. Cade was 11 of 16, 3 of 5 from 3. Jalen Durbin, 12 of 17, 5 of 7 from the free throw line. They shot 54%, unlike the 38% that they shot the other day. Got on the boards there, very good rebounding team, 59 rebounds for them. Only 37 for the OKC Thunder. So, Joe, watching this game, what did you like about what you saw from the Pistons? Oh, man. I thought the Pistons, they got off to a slow start, Uncle Ocho. But for the most part, when we talk about Cade Cunningham and his MVP status, he has to play like this, Uncle Ocho. You know what I mean? 11 for 16 from the field. You know, he's efficient. 13 assists. He's getting other guys involved. it's a recipe for them to win if he's playing at a high level like this and for OKC it's plug and play bro it don't matter whoever plays gonna come out there they're gonna give you their work and these are the hardest teams to play against because Uncle Ocho you really don't know who the real game plan is for yeah you know they got so many guys if you look at it got so many guys who got off tonight, McCain had 20. Big J-Dub, he had 30. Wiggins had 20. Kaysom Wallace had 23. It's just so many guys they can beat you with, man. They fearless. They play hard. They compete at the highest level. So it don't matter who's out there on the court for them, man. You're going to get their best game for sure. Look, when you look at the Pistons, if you tell me K Cunningham, I'm not saying, you know, if he's going to be somewhat efficient, they're unbeatable if he plays like this. Ain't nobody in Eastern Conference beating If he's going to be this efficient, shooting over 50% from the floor, they're not losing. They are not losing. And you get, like I said, Durin is going to give you what he gives you. He's going to give you somewhere 16 to 20 on a given night, probably double-digit rebounds, somewhere between 10 and 15 rebounds tonight. Tonight he gave you 29 and 15. But if Cade Cunningham plays like this, they're virtually unbeatable. Yeah, it's going to be hard, fellas. I mean, he's got to put Durin in those positions to be successful as well by getting in the teeth of the defense, making the game easy for everybody around him, you know, Ocho. You need more from Harris, man. Damn, what we going to get from DeVyre's Harris? Come on, man. Come on, Ocho. You already know. He can't do too much of your witness protection. You can't blow his cover, Joe. Look, he played 23 minutes. I need more than five attempts, bro. Like four points, that ain't going to get it. Because they're short-handed. Yeah. They're short-handed. They don't have their emotional leader, which is Big Stewart. And you can tell he's missing, man. I thought, don't get me wrong, I know OKC got some guys who can go off the bounce. But I think defensively, they've kind of slacked a little bit. Hey, Joe and Unc, isn't there a pecking order when it comes to it? Think about the situation, right? Excuse me if I'm wrong. Correct me, actually, if I'm wrong. Think about Kaminga when he was with the Warriors, right? and him wanting to be the focal, not the focal point, obviously wanting to put up just as many shots as Steph or wanting the offense to kind of run through him. You think Tobias Harris sees it that way and he's kind of gunshot, not wanting to shoot as many shots? Making sure K. Cunningham is the one that does all the work? All the heavy lifting? No, Ocho, he just got to assert himself. He has to be a little more assertive out there on the court. They're show-handed, man. They got two guys who really lead them, but they're going to need a third guy who can consistently step up and make plays, give them some points, anywhere from 12 to 18 points a night. They're going to need that from him, man, four points. Yeah, but Joe and Unc, you understand what I'm talking about, how Kaminga wanted to insert himself a little bit more offensively with the Warriors, but it's sort of a pecking order on being able to have that green light just to shoot at will. No, but they don't really have any other than K. That's really the only guy that they have like that. They running Duncan Robinson and Herter off picks to try to get through. Right, right. To try to face the floor. But when you look at Tobias Harris, Joe, as you mentioned tonight, I mean, look at guys that are coming off the bench, play 17 minutes, got up seven shots. Ronald Holland, now he normally comes in and he's going to get points up. He's going to get points up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was 4 of 9. You get Karis LeVert, play 17 minutes. He's 3 of 6. And I agree with you, Joe. He needs to be a little bit more aggressive. But I'm resigned to the fact this is what he is. Because I think the thing is the biggest mistake that we can make is continually expect something when he's already shown us what he is. He's not changing. Joe, he's made $400 million, and I ain't going to count his pockets, but he's made $400 million and never been an all-star in all-NBA selection. So we can't – Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Bring that back. Timing is everything. Timing is everything. Exactly. It's all about timing. A restaurant is all about location. In pro sports, it's all about timing, timing, timing. Yeah. Hey, he happened to be – the NBA was taken off, and they had to give max contract. But when you look at his play, like I said, a lot happened in Philly and you looked at because Ben Simmons was low-hanging fruit. So he was just easy to reach up there and pick. But Tobias Harris was a max contract guy too. And when Tobias Harris didn't show up, which was often they blamed Ben Simmons. Well, Ben Simmons is the all-NBA guy. He's the all-Defensive guy. He's the rookie of the year. but the guys on a max contract, I should expect him, as Joe say, to give me 12 to 16 on a given night. I don't think that's asking too much. Nah. What I'm saying is, fellas, I mean, with five attempts, you know, I think he can get up more than that. I mean, like you say, I know Hollins, he come off the bench. He's ready to get right to it. I think Tobias, he has opportunities where he can be aggressive. if he just don't. And I think he got to step that up a little bit, man, for the Pistons to make this late surge. Because when you look at it, Joe, I mean, Cade only got up 16 shots. Joe, you remember the other night he was, what, 5 or 20? And when he was at the Knicks, he got up 34 shots. So he only got up less than half the shots that he put up two, three games ago. He got up far less shots than what he put up the other night. But when he's this efficient, they're going to be virtually damn impossible to meet, especially coming out of the East. If he's going to play like this, Durin's going to play like that. Now, I'm expecting Herter, you know, he's working his way back in. He only played eight minutes, Joe, and only got up one shot, and it was a three-point shot. But we know the Red Rifle can get it going. He can get cooking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Duncan Roberts is going to be running off a lot of picks, and they got Stewart, and they got Durin, and they got guys that can set picks for him. But Cade Cunningham, he's the engine. And when he's playing like this, when he's making shots, getting into the teeth of the defense and dropping the ball up to Dern, and he's getting dunks and layups. Yeah. Yeah, they got a nice squad, man. Nice young squad, too, because they got some guys capable that come off that bench. I don't know what you're doing, who can really get to it. I thought Reed, he's been playing well. You got Laverter coming in. He'll get some great men. So they got guys. Remember, he was at Brooklyn before Kyrie and KD was hurt, and he was dropping 30, 40 and had a 50 point game. So, yeah, he's instant offense now. Yeah, yeah, they got some guys capable of helping them advance. But, you know, I just want to see a little more of it. I thought they – I just thought, you know, obviously OKC going to compete. I just thought they should have had their way with them, me personally. I mean, you ain't got no Chick, no J. Will, no Shea. You know, I know them a lot of times, them are hard games to play, but you got to get them guys up out of there early. The longer you leave a team like this around, Joe, the more difficult it is to beat them. Because they're going to start to win confidence. Because they ain't got nothing to lose. Ain't nobody expect them to win anyway. So the longer you leave a team, Ocho, you know how it is. You got a team. You have a team that, oh, we better than this team. We should beat them. And here you are. You look up in the fourth quarter, and they still hanging around. Now you got hell in your hands. Because they believe you, they can beat you. You didn't put them away in the first quarter, this first half. You didn't put them away in the third quarter. Now, here we are with eight, ten minutes in the ballgame, and it's a nip-tuck ballgame. It's three-point win, lead one way or another. Now you got hell on your hands the rest of the game. Yeah. And that's what, you know, OKC Thunder, but this tells me more. This tells me more about OKC than the Pistons. This tells me that they are a deep team. They play for one another and they a very well team because ain no way you supposed to be without five or six starters And we know two of those guys are all NBA selections and one guy was the MVP last year And you play them right down to the wire? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Plug and play, fellas. Them guys compete. They compete. Hey, Joe and Uncle, I know we're at the halfway point, but obviously out of the issue, I'm assuming both of you have said that if Cade Cunningham plays the way he's playing right now and he's as efficient as he was tonight, you see them coming out the East? Yeah, hell yeah. I do, yeah. Well, hold on, hold on. Wait a minute, wait a minute. We forgetting about Boston and how Boston is playing, so we just forgetting Boston now. No, I forgot Boston. But for me personally, I don't know what you think, Joe, but with Cade Cunningham and Durin playing like this here, it looks like, look, anything can happen to last what they got 22 25 games left Joe so anything can happen I think they got a six game lead so you don't know but it looks like they're going to be the number one seed I just don't see a situation where Boston and now look the way JB is playing but if you make me bet some money that means something to you to me and if it's my money it means something to you to me I'm putting my money on Detroit okay hey look me too and on another note Okay, Ocho. Both of these teams have 14 losses coming into today's game. That's why I say if you Detroit, man, go get these people up out of here so we can continue on our way because we want home court advantage throughout the entire playoffs. You don't just want it throughout the Eastern Conference. You want it throughout the entire playoffs. That's going to make a huge difference. And you saw it play out. I mean, they had the home court against the Nuggets, and they won game seven. They had home court against Indiana, and they won game seven. Now, obviously, Halliburton got hurt. It would have been very interesting to see how the game plays out had he been able to play the entirety of the ball game. But it happened what had happened. Just looking up at what you call him, Ocho. He's made cash earnings. He probably made over $300 million at the end of the 24-25 season. and I think he has a two-year deal for about $52 million, Tobias Harris. Oh, my God. Hey, they got to pay somebody. But I think the thing is when you go back to the Thunder, Joe, I don't think they're expecting Jalen Weaves to drop 30 on him. Nah, they didn't. Because he can shoot the three now for a big guy. I mean, you don't expect him, but that's what he'll hover around the three-point line because I've watched him play against the Lakers numerous times and hit five, six threes on him. Yeah, he from, he's an Arkansas kid. He a Razorback. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, plug and play. Look, he ain't got no, he ain't looking over his shoulder. He know he's going to get all the minutes tonight. The man played 35 minutes. He normally get like 15, 20. Yeah, he can play. He can play. And I think what helps is, you see he was five for 10 from a three. He can shoot the three. And he can put on the floor and make some plays. So he a great piece, man, to that championship team. These dudes ain't stiff just playing behind Cech, Hungry, and J-Dub. You know, these dudes can play. He knows his minutes. Look, Hartenstein and Cech going to get the lion's share of the minutes. Now, as long as they don't get in foul trouble, now Hartenstein has a propensity to getting in foul trouble, so he might get a few more minutes. But tonight he knew he was going to play in excess of 30 minutes. So now my mind is already fixing. I already know I'm going to get me 30 tonight, Joe. I'm getting 30 minutes in front of the run. Hey, look, you know for sure you're going to get them attempts. You're like, if I take a couple now, somebody in trouble. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody got to get them. They got up 96 shot attempts. So it wasn't nobody bash with Joe. Listen, that's a center. He shot five for 10 from three. That's your center shooting 10 threes. Damn. You know what I mean? That says a lot. Okay, old Joe. And also, he's 7-7 from the free throw line. So, yeah, I know he had 14 shot attempts, but that tells me he was able to put the ball on the floor and get some fouls because he was 7-7. They were 20 or 21 from the free throw line. This is a good team. But I think the thing is, in order for them to go far, I agree with you, Joe. They're going to have to have that third option. They give them consistent. Now, we don't know. Look, it doesn't have to be Tobias, but they need a third option, somebody that can consistently give them 16 to 20 points. Now, whether it comes from Tobias, whether it comes from Duncan Robinson, or so Thompson I don't Ronald Holland I don't care who it comes from I know my two big guns are gonna give me what make my all-stars I'd write them down my all-stars gonna give me somewhere they give me 45 55 they're gonna probably K gonna give me somewhere like 9 to 12 assists between the two they'll give me maybe 18 to 20 rebounds I done wrote that down right as long as they give me those numbers than everybody else do what they're supposed to do, we're going to be great. I mean, hey, listen, it's easy for us to say it, but listen, in needing those people, in needing those players to show up when it matters most in the playoffs, for them to actually have a chance, if they haven't done it at any point during the season on a consistent basis, the chance of it happening when the games matter more, it ain't going to happen. But they got here, Ocho. I mean, like Joe said, they're 43-14. And I know we got the two guys, and we talk, look, that's the way it works on the team. You're going to talk about your two best players more so than anything. Just like J-Dub and Shea gets all the credit. Chet. Chet was an all-star. J-Dub was an all-star last year. Chet is an all-star this year. They got guys, Lou Dort, Isaiah Joe, Wiggins, Wallace. They got guys. Oh, we ain't mentioned Caruso, the Caruso. He's a three-and-a guy. He can knock down shots. Put it on the floor. He can defend at a high level. All these guys can defend at an extremely high level. Yeah. Yeah, all of them. And they play extended defense. That's why they pick you up 94 feet to weigh you down. And when that fourth quarter get here, Ocho, that's when we're going to pull it. We're going to pull it when that fourth quarter get here. And that's how they be winning, bro. That's how they be winning. But Detroit is pretty much the same way. They picked up – they kind of mimicked that same model as far as extended defense, wearing you down and Cade and Duren got to be special bro. They got to be special every night. I'll go Joe. Joe you look at the Thunder. They got McCain now. Remember how the kind of start he got off last year in his rookie season? Yeah. He became he got something for when they got Edgecombe. So now all of a sudden they don't need him. But he was right. And so now you got another guy that can give you 20 because I don't know if people remember he was doing tremendous before he got hurt last year. He was doing. So now you got another guy that can give you 20 in a spot. Yeah. Yeah, they got some guys over there, Uncle Ocho, who can get to it now. Oh, yeah. I wonder how bad Shea is injured or, like, how much longer he going to be out, Uncle Ocho. Well, he can only whip with, like, six more games. This is the biggest night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards, live from South by Southwest. March 16th, we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app, Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. Okay, let's go ahead and get into that right now. Speaking of injuries, the NBA regular season MVP has tightened in recent weeks with the two top betting favorites, SGA and Nikola Jokic, at risk of not qualifying for the award because of the NBA rule. Tonight was SGA's 11th missed game of the season. So he'll need to play at least 16 of the remaining 22 games this season to be eligible for the second consecutive MVP award. Jokic has already missed 16 games this season. He will be ineligible if he sets out two more games. That's why the race is tightening up because Jokic can only miss two games and SGA needs to play 16 of the last 22. So now you see Cade Cunningham, he's rising. You see JB, he's rising. Because now your two favorites might not be in the situation. Lucas is hovering around. We'll see how they finish. They're going to probably need to finish in the top four in order to get some serious consideration. Go ahead, Joe. What you thinking? I think I don't got Yoke is missing no more games. He going to be eligible. Yoke leading the league in rebounds and assists. He's second in – well, I think Cade was leading. But I think Cade is leading for the simple fact Yoke hasn't played enough games yet. But with that withstanding, so he's what? Seventh or eighth in scoring? Ninth in scoring? First in rebounds and second in assists? Yeah. Man. He got another MVP coming this year? Or they going to give it to Cade? I think it's going to determine these last some odd. 20-something games? Yeah, yeah. It's going to determine a lot. I think as far as, like, the MVP race, obviously we're going to see who's going to be able to finish, who's going to be in line to even compete for it. Right. But it's going to come down to, like, the last week. I'm going to be honest with y'all, man. These dudes playing some ball. And I'm ready to see Shea get back, but I've been watching Jokic. I mean. He ridiculous. He's still putting it down. He ridiculous, man. It can't be a numbers because you're going to lose a numbers battle to him because his numbers are going to be so exemplary. Yeah. I mean, he's at what? I think he has 21, 22 triple doubles this season. He just passed Oscar Robertson. When it's all said and done, in the next two, three years, he's going to pass. In the next two years, he'll pass Russ. Oh, man. I mean, like I said. The game comes so easy to him. It does, Joe. and it's not like it's a lot of strain on his body. He doesn't play above the rim. He got a freak injury, which is somebody fell into him and hyperextended his knee. But when you look at the numbers that he's, I mean, man, he ain't supposed to be doing this. And it makes it look so easy. Did you see the shot he just hit tonight? A one leg step out of bounds? Yeah. And people are like, oh, that's not. Y'all better go back and watch him when he played the Lakers in the playoffs and see how many times he hit that one leg AD. Hit it on AD several times. Hit it on bronze several times. That's his shot. Hey, I'm on here looking. K averaging 9.8 assists. Jokic averaging like 10.5, something like that. But had he played enough games to qualify? Oh, you're saying he ain't played enough games to qualify. If he played enough games, yeah, he's averaging a triple-double, Joe, again. So that's why I'm saying you can't – You're going to lose a numbers game to him. Right. Because you're looking at what he's averaging, 25, 25, what, 25, 12, and 10? 25, 13, and 10? Yeah. He's disgusting out there, bro. Well, hell, at that rate, at that pace, shit, they basically might as well give him the MVP now. No. It's only 20-something games to go. He's averaging 29. He's averaging basically 30, 13, and 11. Yeah, Joe. We might as well give him that, Joe. I'm saying where they going to finish up at because winning is going to, honestly, he's going to probably be in the top five or six. Right. But if you got Cade now finishing, they got the best record throughout the entire league. Right. A lot of it's going to swing his way. That's how Shane went. Okay. Based on the record. Yeah. Because a lot of times they look at best player on the best team. Who's the best player on the best team? Last year it was Shane. They had the best record and they were clear. They were, what, 10, 12 games clear of anybody in either conference. Yeah. So, but he's going to be, for the next three to four years, he's not falling out of the top three as far as top three forwards as far as MVP. He's going to be on the street like LeBron. Every year LeBron either won it, he was second or third. One one second second second third fourth third third second second That how Yoki going to be He just that good And now he has Murray Murray the playoff Murray has showed up in the regular season Yeah. Because we know what that duo does in the postseason. That pick and roll is committed. I like the Watson kid too. Okay, Ocho, they got over there. What is it, Pat? Yeah, yeah, he hurt right now, Joe. Yeah, he's hurt. He was getting money over there. He's hurt and they've been out without Aaron going for a while, like a month. Oh, yeah, he should be. What's wrong with AG? Is it hamstring? Yeah, hamstring. Hey, you know that hamstring. That's something you do not want to play with. Nope, we. No, sir. But they're going to be in the hunt, though. They get health at the right time. You know, everything about basketball is you want to be clicking, going into, obviously, you know, the March and April. You want to be playing good basketball, man, going to the playoffs. Yeah. Look, I get it, Joe. I understand why they implemented the rules. Because you got these streaming services and everybody playing max dollars. And it's a very important game. And the best player, they sitting out two, three players. They said, no, no, no, no. Okay, y'all want to load manage your ass out of an NBA, all NBA selection, all defensive selection, and F an MVP or sixth man of the year. You're going to load manage yourself out of that. Now all of a sudden they're trying to sling and snot because, oh, man, everybody would, okay, play. Play. Yeah, yeah. Because you got guys, Uncle Ocho, who will play a couple games, get their average up real high. Next thing you know, they sitting out the next two, three games. Well, look, you ain't never going to be 100% throughout the whole season. Everybody going to have knickknacks. Everybody going to be a little banged up. It's just throughout the duration of a season, six to eight months, bro. Like every other day, you know what I mean? Like it just adds up. So it's wearing a tear on the body. But, yeah, man, they made it to where you really got to go out there and compete for what you want. Yeah. I like it. And you're right, Joe. I mean, and I think you see that a lot more in baseball, especially with guys with a batting average. I don't want my I'm a couple of points in front of somebody and I don't want to go over and drop my batting average if somebody passes so yeah because that's what you used to have you used to have you got a car I think in the 20s and 30s if you won the batting title you got a car yeah I got the lead like well I'm good I don't got to be enough games here you know back there the car probably on the call like maybe $1,500 Ocho but that was a lot of money back in the 20s at 30 $1,500 on it? Yeah. Damn. Hey, listen. Boy, it'd be a time if we get it like that again, bud. If you get it like that again, you ain't gonna be making the money. You ain't finna be making the money. There's a reason why prices, wages went up so, because prices went up. I mean, a home, if you think a home cost you 30,000. You ain't getting no, you can't even be able to down payment on the house for 30 grand. I remember my grandfather bought a brand new, I think, Caprice Classic back in 73, 74. They were like 2,900, 3,000. Yeah. Big 454. Big boy. So, no, but I agree. I think the thing is it's going to light a fire front of the guys and get guys like, you know what? This load, man. And plus, man, Joe, you making $60, $70 million? And you mean to tell me you be sitting out? Especially on national television. You can't sit out no game that's a Saturday or a Sunday. Man. Joe, everybody's sitting around watching. Hey, what if players are really hurt, though? What if something's really wrong and they really need to take that time off? Well, you can't sit out Saturday or Sunday and then play on Monday. where I can't play back-to-back. Huh? Yeah. You want the season to go year-round? Because the only way that you're going to be able to get the lot of 82 games in is that if you have to have some back-to-backs. What you have, Joe, about seven, eight back-to-backs in the season? Probably a little more than that, but yeah. Yeah. Man, listen, it was one year. Okay, Ocho, we had to play – you had to play three games in three nights, back-to-back-to-back. Yeah. We played a back-to-back-to-back. We played three games, three nights, and then last night we went into three overtimes. Oh, man. Got us a couple days off, though. But you know, sometimes, Joe, they play back-to-back, they stay in the same city. They play the same team. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's easy. But back then, they didn't do that. You play back-to-back, you might play Atlanta, then you had to go down to Orlando or you had to go to Miami and play. But now, sometimes, they'll play a back-to-back, and you play that same team back to back. Yeah. Yeah, they've been doing it now. Oh, Joe, I thought you meant y'all played back to back but had to fly at different places. Yeah, they did. Yeah, we did. We had to play three different teams, three different cities. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't no East Coast to West Coast or West Coast to East Coast, nothing like that. No, no, they probably were in range. Not with a back to back, Joe. They got to have it on the East Coast. So you might play Brooklyn. You might play the Knicks. Brooklyn and Toronto or something like that. That's not bad. That's not bad. Yeah. Yeah. That's not bad. Okay. Okay. Or you play Atlanta, Orlando, Miami. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You know, keep it close. Nah, they're not finna send you to Atlanta and then you gotta go to Portland and then you gotta play. The ways in the... And then you gotta play Phoenix or Houston or Dallas. They're not finna do it. Yeah, nah. They ain't gonna do it like that. But boy, it's rough. They'll give you San Antonio. It's rough though. They'll give you Dallas. they'll give you Houston. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of, the NBA is sending their own independent doctors to verify Laurie Markkinen's MRI from an injury into practice today per NBA porter Tony Jones. Joe, is this what it's come to? Yeah, because the NBA say, man, we ain't going. We ain't going. Matter of fact, we better send our doctors down there to see what's going on with these dudes because this tank of stuff, man, and it got out of hand, and I think that's what the NBA think. That's why they say we're sending our own doctors down there to check on Lloyd Markham and see what's going on. Yeah, this is what it comes to. But the thing is, Joe, you know your body. I mean, the doctors say you seem fine, but no. My ass hurt. So what do we do? What do we do, Joe? I mean, most guys, I mean, a lot of times if it's something serious, they go get a second opinion. They don't never take the guy's first opinion. I mean, you got something going on, Joe. I don't know if you missed any time during the season, but if somebody said, well, Joe, you got this, You're like, you know what, let me go grab that second opinion. Yeah. Yeah, you go get a second opinion for sure. I guess this may be the second opinion. I don't know, but the NBA say they want to know. Hey, they starting to investigate a lot more, man. It's been a lot going on. You see they just shut Jaron Jackson down. He had to have surgery. He hasn't surgery for something. Yo, you mean to tell me you're going to trade all that, give up all those picks for a guy that you got to have surgery? What they do that at? Think about what they gave up to get him. And now you get a guy who played a couple of games. Now he played a couple of games going off, and then the fourth quarter you sent him. Lauren Barkley was going off, sent him in the fourth quarter. NBA said, man, y'all full of caca. That's why they sent them people down there. Yeah, we ain't trying to hear all that. Yeah, yeah, we going to be able to determine this here. Hey. Yeah. And you see the NBA said, you know what? Ain't no more lottery protected. Y'all want to take? You do the game with the picks Land them top three picks Somebody got it Top three protected Top five protected Ain't nothing protected Listen Because I think I think Utah can still I think they can get the number one pick Yes they can And I believe if they get the number one pick They take it to Bonza That's what I think For whatever strange reason I feel like he gonna stay in Utah. Yeah. I don't know why. It's just... So, I get it. I mean, I think the thing is that when you play, and it's like, they're playing too many games. Well, damn. Okay. Too many. I'm sure the NBA won't have a problem cutting the game, but they want to cut that pay too. So, because the players want, Ocho, is that they want less game, but we still want to make 70, 80 million dollars. It may say, oh, no, here you go. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think we need less games, man. It's been like this since... As long as I can remember. The 70s. As long as I can remember. And I've been a lot longer than both of you, so as long as I can remember, Joe, they played 82 games. Hey, listen, and them dudes playing in Chuck Taylor's and Converse out there. They didn't have technology. Shelltoe. They didn't have, like Joe said, the shoe technology, the eating technology, the training technology, the medical equipment technology, the doctors, everything is so much more advanced. So can you imagine? And if you look at track and field, Locho, when these guys were running these fast times with just regular shoes. Yeah. Just imagine that they had those carbon fiber shoes and they had these Mondo tracks like they got right now. Man, you say both about a man 9'3". Yeah. Ain't no telling how far Jonathan Edwards would have jumped. He jumped 60 and a half feet. Bob Beeman when he beat 29, two and a half of the altitude in Mexico City. But they have no technology like they got now. And I'm not saying athletes, but when you combine athletes getting better and technology right alongside it, you got the perfect storm. Yes, sir. Hey, look, I kept me a fresh pair of orthotics in my shoes. I did too, Joe. What? Man. A pair of who? Orthotics. Orthotics. Orthotics. You ain't had that, Ojo? Nah, here. Uh-uh. I had them. Hey, Joe, I had, obviously, I was a Reebok during that time. I had them take all the lining out my shoe. I had no support. Why is that? So basically, because I need to feel the floor. You know what I mean, Joe? You ever had on a track spike or like a waffle shoe? Yeah. That's what I wanted my cleats to feel like. I need to feel the floor. Every time I step and touch and when it's time for me to break down, I don't want no support. I don't want nothing restricting my ankle. Damn. Yeah, it's weird. I gotta feel the floor. I don't know, it's weird. Again, you used to get taped and stuff like that. I got taped directly to my skin. My bad, hell nah, man. I look at these guys right now, I look at the bunch of adults. That man out there playing with no, he playing out there with footage and no tape. I say, what? Yeah, same, same. Listen. The only time I put on tape, Joe, It was more for like fashion. It wasn't for my ankles or nothing. It was just laid on there. Cause I wanted to make sure everything was able to roll and be real smooth. It was weird. Oh Joe, I had to have some tape. Yeah! I had to be taped. I had that pre-wrap jumping. Nah. Joe you can't feel nothing Joe. I need to be secure. Boy my ankle bone be on the ground. I was a hard planner. I'm talking about, I'm not like you Ocho under 200. That's 230 getting moving and having to stop on a dime. Oh no. Right, right, right, right, right. I forgot Ocho a little dude. He wouldn't understand. Yo, Joe, Joe, don't, don't do that, Joe. I had a little size when I was playing. Hey Joe, if you take my cleat, right? If you take my cleat, you could bend it like this. And you could fold it. Oh no, oh no. You could fold it. But if it felt just like a tracksuit, I just had a cleat bottom on the bottom. Nope. Oh man. Man Joe, I had mold skin, you know one of those strips that you put up there like that? And then I had the mold skin taped around directly to my skin. Yeah. That's what I had. Hey listen. I needed mine to feel secure. Hell yeah. I'm telling you. Man listen, I ain't play, boy. I used to get heavy tape. I didn't get it like that for practice, and I always show you, I just go out there with pre-wrap and regular tape. When it came down the way, I go out there for warmups with the regular like practice tape Soon as I come back in it I take that off All right let get it Yeah Yeah I don understand how people wear ankle braces on. They tape up their shoe, then they put on the ankle brace, then they put their shoe on. That's linemen do that. Everything is restricted. I'm like, what are you doing? It made no sense to me. It made people comfortable. I said linemen tape up all that stuff. because you know them linemen, they have on high tops. But they have rubber bottom shoes on. They don't do studs. Most linemen don't do studs. Right. I played with Zim. He's the only offensive lineman I've ever seen wear low tops. For real? I've never seen an offensive lineman. He wore low tops. And no spat. Is it mandatory to wear knee braces if you're a lineman? In college. Most guys, if you wear a knee brace, you've had a knee injury. Like you look at Brady, Tom Brady, I'll be stupid, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, John, John played his career. John never had an ACL. He tore his ACL in high school and they removed it. So he didn't have an ACL at all. Damn. When I first got there, he didn't used to practice with a brace. No, as a matter of fact, he really didn't. He didn't practice with a brace. He only played in a brace, but he practiced without it. but most of the time Joe if somebody's had especially linemen offensive linemen they'll continue to wear it quarterbacks will wear it Tom Brady once he tore his knee I don't think Brady ever took any brace off Peyton you know guys like that yeah I mean I could imagine a skill position player playing with a big old Dunjoy on nah I couldn't but I notice a lot of them linemen dudes I know they be cause they always getting rolled up on I think in college it might be mandatory Most college teams have all their offensive linemen wearing knee braces because of that what you said, Joe, to get rolled up on. But, nah. But, nah, I don't know how y'all do it. I be looking at them guys in amazement with no tape. I'm like, man, that must be real. I do too. I could do it. And in football, hey, I be thinking the same thing because in football, especially the way they be tackling them receivers, the ones who be out there with them little no-show socks on, and I be like, man, how this dude, it's like every play, it's almost a career in they play. Man, and especially, cause the hip drop. That's what got me, Ocho, taping my ankles like that, cause guys with hip dropping you. Yeah. And see, back then, they didn't call it a high ankle sprain, they just called it an ankle sprain. And so you like, man, this thing taking forever to heal. This ain't no typical ankle sprain. And I never rolled my ankle, like most people roll their ankle over the top, Roll it like that. I'll pro-date it in. I roll mine in because I got dragged down from behind or until like that there. Mmm. Ah. Man. Mmm. I know that. This is the biggest night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from South by Southwest, March 16th, we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. Well, that must have been real nice to be able to run no tape, Ocho. Huh? That must have been real nice. You know what? Honestly, for me to be able to do that, playing at that level, as quick and as fast as I was, it all had to do when I was little, running around with no shoes on. I could not play throw-up tackle in the street. you know when you play freeze you're in a car coming you know yeah i always either had on socks or i had on no shoes so i need i need i needed to be able to feel the floor even once i made it it's it's weird but but you didn't but you see but you played in molded bottoms you didn't play in studs though did you oh yeah mold i don't play no studs even when we played the steelers even when we played the steelers remember how the steelers purposely had that bad feel as an advantage to them, I still wore- You still wore a motor model? Yeah, still wear a motor. I never slip, I never slip. I'm always over, what's the word I'm looking for? I was always over my- Oh, the ball on your feet. Yeah, always. Yeah, I never extended. I never extended. Or play, oh, you're playing on your inside foot and slip like, bro, you know it's wet out here and you're trying to play it, like you're trying to speed cut like it's dry. Mm-hmm, yeah. Man, drop your hips and get on, put that weight on. The guys start skating, putting the back of their foot down, Ocho. Mm-hmm. That's it, man. But my first, my first, I think my first, like, 10 years, Ocho, I wore molded, and then I went to the Speed TDs. Speed TDs molded too, ain't it? Okay, okay. What they actually called tempo bottoms. Yeah, I know, yeah, I know you're talking about it. That's what they called. Nice boy. Hey, so how often did y'all go through like different shoes? Every week. You playing a new pair every game? Yeah, every week. So what I would do is that I would wear a new pair of shoes on Friday to get them broken in, and then I would play in them. Then I would practice in those Wednesday and Thursday, break out a new pair for Friday, playing those on Sunday. Yeah. I like new shoes. I hate it when my shoes are done. They had new shoes? They had two broken. Oh, hell no, man. I probably played in a new pair of shoes like every three games on the Ojo. Cause I hate it when they got too broken and too loose. I like my shoe to be snug, tight. Okay, that's... Yeah, okay. Yeah, I was gonna say you play a new pair of shoes, but I think Jordan played a new pair of shoes every game. Yeah, yeah. Damn. Man, you know our new shoes, brand new shoes hurt your feet? You know, Sade said it hurt like brand new shoes? Hey, you remember when you was a kid, Joe, your shoe was too small, you hitting the bottom with the heel, trying to get them toes down from the mouth. Oh, yeah. I bet I hate that. I hate that. That's how I got this old hammer toe I got over here. From winning two little shoes. Yeah, you know you can go get a little surgery for that too now. Nah, I ain't hurting, man. I'm playing. It took me through my whole professional career. Ain't no need to get any fake. It's over with. He ain't get no surgery unless he have to. What? No voluntary surgery? Cosmetic surgery? Oh, hey, look. I don't know how many times y'all ever been under that knife, but I done been under it quite a few times. It ain't pretty. I ain't never been under that, Joe. That's probably why I'm suggesting it. My bad. Hey, man, look here. I had broke my collarbone, and it almost broke the skin, so I got a knot right here. I said, Mr. Sharp, we can file it down. I said, man, do you know how I pay for that to be to file a bone down? I said, it ain't bothering nobody. Always hurt. Right, right. And if I don't, I don't really walk around, I ain't at the beach, I ain't walking around with no shutoffs, ain't nobody gonna notice it. And like when I do a photo, they just switch it to the opposite side. So if I'm facing this side, they'll take the bone and put it on this side so you won't even notice it. Damn. Okay, I see what you mean, okay, okay. Yeah, man. Uh-uh, nah, hell nah. One of that knife ain't no joke, boy. I got 18 screw, three plates in my face, man. Oh yeah, you got the fractal orbital. Damn, but you got elbow Joe? I went up to dunk the ball and Stackhouse tried to block it and he kind of bodied me and I slipped off the rim, hit face first. Ah! I saw that guy happen to a guy in high school. He tried to dunk the ball and the guy undercut him. And the first thing he was hit was this. Ooh! Yeah. Yeah, I was in bad shape. I was in bad shape. How much time you had to miss, Joe? We was in the playoffs. It was the first round. It was the first round of the second round of the playoffs. And that was the first game. Damn. Man, I missed the rest of that series. I think we beat them in six. Right. I was out about two weeks. And that was early. I came back early. Whole hour blood shot red, you know, just from the surgery and all that. Right, right, right. It took a minute for their readiness to get out of my eye. Hey, you had the mask on? Yes, I had the mask. I still got the mask. I still got it. Batman Joe, whatever that I'm talking about. You can't breathe. That was back in 2005. You couldn't breathe with that mask on. I had to have a thing. You had to wear one up. I was blocking down, doing a combo block, power block, 16 power. I'll never forget it. Liman come around, pulling. Fizz go right through my face mask. pop. Damn. Fractured my orbital. Yep. I don't know about you, but mine hurt. What? That one hurt. Hey, I remember I was laying on there having my face hand like this here. I was like, oh, man. And Greek. My head hurt. Steve Antelobos, we call him Greek, though. He called it Sharpie. What's wrong? I said, Greek, it just felt like my face exploded. So he said, let's, you know, hey, can you get up? I said, yeah, but I don't want to. Hey, listen. Man, that thing was hurting on you. So they got me that x-rated. Had a complete blow out the floor. Cause your eye sits in the socket, the whole floor. Yeah. Ooh. I know I was in pain, boy. I'm telling you, I would tell them, give me morphine, give me something, man. Y'all gotta give me something. Nah, I ain't want nothing. I ain't, I don't do the pain medicine. Cause the pain medicine have you constipated. I had the, my head, listen, listen, I came down, hit my head on the floor, so I don't know if it was from that. Yeah, probably. My head was ringing so bad. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, like once that, once something like that happened, they don't want you to fall asleep. Nah, that, yeah. Yeah, they keep, they keep you up. That would just say, you know, you okay? Don't fall asleep. I said, man, as soon as I get home, I'm going to bed. Right. Man, shit. I think I think my orbital I think my orbital was more painful but I don't know maybe I dislocated my elbow too cause you see how my elbow bent like this it bent like that the other way so it's bending like this it bent like that the other way damn what the hell happened tried to catch a pass and Romo had my arm I couldn't get my arm through So I landed, he landed on top of me and bent it up. Ah, God. That's what I said too. I had elbow surgery, I had elbow surgery too. I had elbow surgery too. I had three, I had three chip bones in my socket. I woke up one morning, my arm was stuck like this here. I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't open it up. Oh, you had loose bodies, you had loose bodies in there, huh? Oh man, yeah, Dr. Andrew got me right over there in Alabama. He died in Mobile or Montgomery? Birmingham. Birmingham, yeah, I think so. God damn, boy, y'all been on the table like the little Operation, you know, remember the little game, Joe? Yeah, yeah. Remember Operation? Yeah, old Joe. But y'all had everything done, boy. Man. Speaking of. night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from South by Southwest, March 16th, we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com.